Which is more effective BJJ or Wrestling?
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- In this clip Coach Zahabi talks about the two martial art forms and discusses a bit of their history, background and importance in MMA and how effective they are in the octagon. Which is more effective in a no "limits" fight?
If you can wrestle and you can box, you're going to be a hand full of trouble for any opponent
randy stevens yeah especially in a street fight scenario that wrestling take down defense to keep your mobility and the hand skills to go with it, I mean I can literally count on 2 hands how many jitz guys I know that could actually take a wrestler down if he doesn’t want to be taken down
How about kickboxing and wrestling?
Gam3r_PlayZ that works too brother I only suggest you practice your kicks in your street clothes my jeans kinda limit the height of my kicks, and when you have shoes on it makes a difference in how you generate power so just keep that in mind
rick toretto well in kickboxing the most powerful and useful kick is the low kick so it’s fine if you could only kick low. Plus only someone stupid would try to grab/catch a low kick and if they tried then they would have to lower down to catch a low kick. If they do try to catch your low kick you could just knee them in the face. Also if Jiu Jitsu or wrestler tried to single leg or double leg you then maybe you could knee them.
Gam3r_PlayZ well personally the only kicks I really use are the low line stop kick I find it difficult to really get good torque in a Thai style round kick when I have regular clothes on. I mostly keep it to teeps and those low line shin/knee kicks. And if you’re gonna knee someone shooting for a takedown you really need to have a hell of a sprawl if you miss or he just eats it
I think in general it’s going to be easier for a wrestler to learn effective BJJ than a BJJ grappler to learn wrestling. There are much higher physical demands for wrestling while BJJ is mainly technique. So for that reason I’d say wrestling is THE base to have, rivaled by no other martial art. So wrestle first, learn BJJ second.
Yes agreed, was training bjj for the past 5 years and recently took up greco n freestyle, the physical demand is absolutely huge. Was getting ragdolled, and the grind n pressure this athletes put on you, it makes a men out of you. No wonder Joe rogan says it is best base to have for MMA
@jables jabes says the guy who never done bjj
@jables jabes you mean catch wrestling? Yeah,it's great,but it's not very common.
@@dzimikes It's pretty common, just not commonly TAUGHT. lol After practice, that's all we'd do for an extra hour or so, practice subs on eachother that we couldn't do in wrestling. Although i'm not going to pretend its the exact same, it's definitely not too far off. And now i'm noticing we weren't the only ones, almost every wresting team has guys doing it, just not in matches.
@@colecampbell1906 no it's not. There isn't a signle catch wrestling club in my country. What you do is not catch wrestling
What a thorough explanation. I grew up wrestling, and started judo & jujitsu later on in life. They all will teach you so many incredibly different angles on being a lethal grappler. The only thing that i wish would change currently is the lack of standing interaction in sport jujitsu. When i see people just sit down as soon as the match begins in order to grab their opponent and roll i get sick to my stomach. Its an impractical science at that point. That will definitely put u in a very dangerous position in a real altercation.
You know you’re a long time viewer of Firas when you immediately know the answer as soon as you read the video title
i just landed on this vid and while the ad is running i scrolled. I saw your comment and now i have to take a guess. Knowing Firas is big on all martial arts as well as wrestling, i feel like his answer is that there is a need for both. Like a chess match, you need to adapt your skill based on others.
Mitch T Yes, sir!
MMA fights should be one big round
I honestly love the one 10 minute round and one 5 minute round like in Pride, most fights get decided in one 10 minute round.
It would be very very boring after they gas out and fight a messy fight
Jx Glenn, also it should be bare knuckle
I agree, like a real fight.
I think the main event/title fights should be one 25 minute round.
People have been misled by MMA and mat grappling about how grappling is on concrete or asphalt.
yeap. Just lifting someone a foot and dropping him can be fatal.
No Mr Lopez I can Pull Guard on a street curb or a parking lot full of rocks
@@trsk9967 well, in reallife you also dont have gloves on and no mouthpiece, wich makes boxing alot more dangerous too
@@mikewillis9062 yea and i can sit in your guard pick you up and slam the shit out of you on those rocks
@@oranges557 Everything is more dangerous outside the gym.
"Train jiu jitsu like wrestlers" 👌🏼👍🏼
@@fionaaron3854 put major emphasis on takedowns and takedown defense .. learn leg locks like the alphabets .. know how to gain top position and maintain it (chain wrestling) .. these are the 3 major JiuJitsu flaws that wrestlers target .. combine chain submission wrestling with BJJ and ud be the ultimate grappler god willing
@@fionaaron3854 ure welcome buddy
@@imawarrior313 where you from
@jables jabes agree! Chain submission wrestling is the ultimate form of Grappling to me
The more bjj I train, the more I respect wrestling and the more I try to implement it in my game. Great sport :)
Everyone seems to have forgot Josh Barnett tapping Dean Lister with a classic wrestling pin move a couple if years ago..
Barnett is not just a wrestler but more of a catch, folk, freestyle mixed with bjj type but he finished a beast like Lister with a simple classic wrestling move. I agree with Firaz on a lot of his points tho. But I think it will take longer than he predicts for bjj to "catch up" due to the physique and olympic status of wrestling.. Also no one mentions the power of wrestling throws as fight ending moves. A wrestler/judoka can throw someone with enough force to end a fight. Maybe not in MMA but in the streets? No doubt...Seen it, done it.
I once saw a rugbyplayer plowing thru a decent mma-guy and double leg him with a couple of broken ribs and punctured lung as a result... Powerthrows/ takedowns are overlooked as a weapon.
That was basically Rhonda Rousey's strategy during her heyday. Sure she had a great armbar, but her opponents were typically winded from being slammed before she even went for it.
@@ChrisjayH1 Good point. Hip throws are a bitch.. And of course you make sure to land heavy on the opponents torso. Gsp's double leg almost did the same to people. Both physically and mentally...
You are so right about the power throws , not many people can survive it on concrete. The padded cage is non real life.
Let’s not forget Josh Barnett is a world class jujitsu practitioner. He’s also fought Gordon Ryan.
Josh Barnett? Oh you mean that guy Gordon Ryan taped out with a triangle. I remember him 🤠
I love them both, it would benefit the BJJ guy to learn and practice wrestling principals and vice versa.
Wrestling + BJJ = best ground combo
One art (only 6 months to train): Sanda, Pankration, Combat Sambo.
Two arts (only 6 months to train): Grecco + Boxing
One art 4 to 6 years: BJJ
Two arts 4 to 6 years: BJJ + Muay Thai
Retire -- Practice Tai Chi, Dynamic Stretching, Calethenics, HRV Meditation, and Yoga Nidra. Done done done.
Ahahahaha bjj is years of training when greco and boxing is half of a year , what??
@@mrboy9658takes a long time to master bjj
Even Helio Gracie admitted that had there been rounds and gloves he would not have won all his fights. He depended on wearing his opponents down physically and when he got them on the ground he knew it was inevitable.
Plus 8 ounce gloves don't allow you to carve into an opponent to pry a limb loose to put a submission on. 8 ounce gloves, however, do help you fend off submissions by giving you something to grab onto. Combine that with rounds and referee interference to stand opponents up and it's hard to argue that current mma favors wrestlers and strikers.
I would simply love to have a once a year competition that takes it back to its roots: no eye-gouging, hair-pulling, groin stomping, and..yeah.. okay no soccer kicking a downed opponent and no rounds.
I have my money on the Bjj specialist.
That said...yes, well rounded fighter is better.
BJJ in MMA imo has been adapted to be more like Catch Wrestling, to just go for a submission because the time doesn't exist for position over submission especially if you are on the bottom. Now effect people going that route tend to be high level BJJ guys who are just so well versed in submissions that they are confident they can finish the hold regardless.
WOW! Brothers MMA means that you know several of the martial arts, wrestling and BJJ. Boxing etc
Imagine a person with boxing like Mike Tyson and with good greco.
Unbeatable
Best combi bro
He'd be the baddest man on the planet
Nah muay thai+ bjj
that would a monster as the both art complement each other. far superior to bjj with a striking art
Love these very smart reflections about fighting
Why does everyone one forget about slams when it comes to wrestling even if you only wrestled in high school all of us know how to do it we just were not aloud then... bjj seems to forget their rules protect them from this against wrestling.
One more thing. Wrestling is the nationalsport in several countrys and the number of wrestlers versus bjj will make for a much bigger talentpool of top notch athletes/ competitors.
Hmmmm, that's an interesting point. I'd be curious to see someone dig into the numbers. Most of those countries are small and Brazil is pretty big. I'm not sure how the numbers in NA balance out, either.
@@AdobadoFantastico most guys in ex-soviet union countries know how to wrestle. Every other kid there trains greco roman wrestling
I’m 32 and 9-months in as a white belt in BJJ. I wish I did wrestling in high school, I opted for baseball instead. Looking back, I can’t believe how I missed out on something that would have helped me in my current martial arts journey. I’m slowly learning takedowns, and I’m doing my best to not be a guard puller.
Find a real MMA gym, not those goofy gyms where they list themselves as MMA but they only teach muay thai & BJJ
Don’t get me wrong if they have strong emphasis on no gi BJJ 9/10 they’ll have good wrestling because no gi BJJ wouldn’t exist without wrestling
I don’t wrestle, but I kept doing Hapkido after I started GJJ years ago for this very reason - to compliment the bottom game with standing, though we do standing Jiu Jitsu as well. Thanks 🙏 for this...
Catch wrestling needs to make a comeback. Its wrestling with sub finishes.
@Tom Evers I agree. Saku, Barnett, Mega Megumi are prime examples of how good catch guys are.
They get their ass kicked by no gi bjj guys
@@allrounder242 Thats stupid Sakubra beat the Gracie's the best BJJ's fighters in the world
@@the_asian_mamba6597 he said no gi
@@the_asian_mamba6597 u moron
It was not a grappling bout
Sakuraba was a far better mma fighter than the gracies
Lmao it's like saying a mma fighter vs any single martial art.
Where's ur logic??
Awesome high quality knowledge from a top level mma coach in earth...Coach you have many videos on grappling and wrestling but less in stand up game..please do more on striking and do more parts on fighting bigger opponents series....Thanks
For someone 40+ , I think bjj, judo, sambo or catch is the way, granted as long as you keep practicing. Very few people can continue striking and shooting for legs with precision past the age of 50. For the younger guys its a buffet of disciplines, so munch on while you can 👊👍💪
i think it depends on the individual. i do think wrestlers are in better shape condition and wrestling did make its mark as far as takedowns and explosiveness. jujitsu made its mark because groundfighting is an entity within itself as far joint manipulation and submissions. i personally think both are equally effective.
What's more effective? Walking or running?
The compromise 'Jogging'.
hmmm
Butt scoot blasting your opponent until you catch a heel hook. Then walk away while they crawl.
@@peenerparker846 Then why is it called Jogging? 😂😂
Running
It depends. Wrestling is nearly finished after putting someone to their back. Ironically, that's were BJJ is just beginning.
Impossible to compare the two because their purpose is completely different.
Jarrod Buldo my opinion ina real life scenario. I find Jiu Jitsu’s locks and chokeholds are better than pin. Pins are unpractical and still live you opening to be elbowed to the face, punched, eye guldging, and other stuff.
@@gam3r_playz770 You aren't going to "pin" someone in a real life confrontation. You'd take them to the ground, get top position, and pummel them. But like I said, you cant really compare them in a vacuum because they are both completely different in goal and rule sets.
Jarrod Buldo I know but wrestling doesn’t really have a finish like Jiu Jitsu. What if a wrestler gets on top but can punch and breaks his knuckles? It’s one of those things where you have to learn another fighting style (Boxing & others) in order to keep safe. However, wrestlers conditioning are top notch though but would easily get choked out. A pure wrestler would have to slam the person hoping that they would hit their head or break a bone. A lot of the throws from wrestling are ripped out from Judo.
@@gam3r_playz770 I feel like you're trying to compare one over the other in a comment where I clearly said they arent really comparable. Obviously wrestling doesnt have chokes and locks, because that's not the purpose.
And no, wrestling throws are not "ripped" from Judo. Wrestling has been around for literally thousands or years. Judo was established like 150 years ago...
Jarrod Buldo thousands 😧
In ADCC BJJ dominates over wrestling, but it is marginalized in MMA.
And the reason is striking. Once you have striking, takedowns and ground control make submissions and bjj less relevant.
I think Firas is right and that it has more to do with round times. In ADCC the qualifying rounds are 10 minutes and the final rounds are 20 minutes, which greatly favors BJJ.
Exactly ,without striking wrestlers don't really have much to offer after the takedown.
@@FenceProLLC Takedown defence? Being able to defend their position? Being in control of the fight? What is the BJJ guy going to do to a wrestler in the stand up phase? Pull guard on him?
@@mrmoth26 a BJJ guy can do a standing submission.(headarm choke, Ezekiel choke,standing kimura,etc) forcing the wrestler to take him down or run away. ale Chuck Liddell the game plan for wrestlers in UFC used to be to back up and punch while doing it. Everyone knows BJJ now so thay don't have to do that anymore.
Since both wrestling and BJJ are part of virtually every MMA curriculum, then this question is very moot. It's like asking if a car's battery is more important than its alternator.
Jujitsu. Both ARE effective but one truly relies on your physicality(strength,Speed,stamina) and the other teaches you to persevere and FINISH an opponent even when you LACK "superior " physical prowess.I am an older Martial artist now,yet in "challenges" still enjoy victory against my much younger challengers. They all use a Wrestler mentality and are often very SURPRISED at how I get them to tap from Bottom or side(Admittedly,many of these guys aren't trained but they are always much younger). My point being, if I ONLY USED WRESTLING against them I would eventually succumb due to fatigue or speed differences. Using submissions allows me to "wage war" wherever I'm at.
Waging war....against people who can't....cool story.
Ok but how are you gonna take someone down without wrestling? You need to take someone down first to use your bjj, so basically bjj becomes useless without wrestling. Unless your up against a very weak person who can be taken down.
The whole no strength required thing is a myth. Why wouldn't you want to be the strongest.
@K9Y750 the wrestler will take you down and punch you or choke you.
As a guy who wrestled in college and does bjj now I agree with everything coach has said here.
What school did u wrestle at? And do you know of any wrestling clubs??
I wrestled at Phoenix College in the late 1990s. The program died sadly. Some bjj clubs like 10th planet do wrestling classes.
@@treroney4720
If you're an adult looking to wrestle, your best bet is to hope you have Catch Wrestling nearby. Finding adult wrestling is nearly impossible.
@@zedek_ there's a few college wrestling programs near me. Really complements my MMA training especially in BJJ tournaments
Wrestling + BJJ = Awesome scrambles.
As for finishing within 5 mins, that's also why ground and pound has overtaken submission. Of course, in the real world there is a huge advantage to a pure grappling strategy (although a certain amount of striking is important). Beating the living shit out of someone's face is NOT how you 'win' in self-defence. Rather, the objective should be to control the aggressor with as little bloodshed as possible, both for ethical and legal reasons.
After watching this video both wrestling and bjj have there pros and cons but I prefer bjj
Same
It’s more fun .
Do you also prefer butt scooting to being a real man?
@@71kakarot Lol you got ignored
Sakaruba says hello to the gracies. Catch wrestling has everything.
I believe when pro wrestling started and was “real”, matches would often last over an hour much like vale tudo. This was obviously a problem for viewership and they changed to the production based model. Killer Kowalski comes to mind
Then the territories were born and they banned catch wrestlers who did not cooperated like john pesek, strangler lewis and so fourth
Standard ofExcellence Exactly! Then it became “wrahhhstleing” haha
even though I am a gi competitor I think wrestling is better for an actuall 1vs1 street fight against someone untrained or even a boxer and jujitsu is better for mma comps. and general grappling events
We all know WWE professional wrestling is the superior art😂
It's called professional wrestling because most of them were amateur wrestlers on school and start earning money with it so...
Sorry, but the ultimate superior art is BJJ, that´s why Royce Gracie won precisely the first UFC against an elite wrestler with a weight difference of 30 kg in less than 5 minutes.
@@carlosfernandopradagarcia6415 i think that mma is the ultimate art if you can call it that. Because i high level participant has the equivalent grappling skill and more striking, throwing and sweeping techniques to use
I think sarcasm is the ultimate art here 😂
I cant believe u took that seriously
My big 4: bJJ, Muay Thai, Wrestling & Boxing.
And BJJ has gotten better by the real life test wrestling has put on it. Wrestling has really helped BJJ and vice versa.
I LOVE both sports!
Most mma gyms teach those 4 and all top mma fighters train them, you still see a lot guys seeing commenting things like boxing or bjj is useless.
This is a fantastic video -- you have take a very detailed and deep analysis into this topic. After watching your video I really only have one question for you. I was a wrestler (6 decades ago) but I have been more and more interested in BJJ and have been wondering about trying to lean it. Good idea? Granted I'm getting old (78) but I'm still in good shape -- looks like something I'd like to do.
Mix of grappling arts(Ju-justu, Sambo, Free style Wrestling, etc) is better than mix of standarding combat(Kung Fu, Boxing, Wing Chum, etc) but their both important in Mixed Martial Arts...
That's one thing that has to change in mma rules. Start the next round where the last one ended. It penalizes the grappler if he gets the takedown and ends up with mount or side control and maintains it until the bell. They just spent energy to get a dominant position and it all is wasted because they have to start the next round standing. If you're a striker all you have to do is survive a few seconds and you get saved. Valetudo was as close to a no rules fight as you could get. I think the only rules were no eye gouging and no biting.
Askren explained the whole Conditioning thing on JRE.
Yea that conditioning came really handy when he fought Demian Maia 🤠
I started understanding wrestling more and I’ve noticed a jump in my defense and position control
Neck cranks face locks catch wrestling that’s where the ‘new’ inventions of bjj are coming from
love it
ive won all my street fights with boxing and wresling.
Lol buddy there are ZERO new inventions. Wrestling is an ANCIENT art and if you think they havent thought about moves in thousands of years prior you are sadly mistaken. Even in bjj....there are no NEW moves. A lot of these NEW moves people claim can be found in black and white film or pictures of judoka doing in LOOOOOONG ago. Unless you are talki.g about worthless bs like berimbolo and lapel guard....ffs.
@@VoltedSoldier what you in about wrestling is the first art it’s not restricted to the American Olympic style. It had submissions etc what bjj does it takes all the credit for submissions as if it originated from them especially Gracie jui jitsu ffs
IN the earlier days such matches used to take place in CATCH WRESTLING AND JUDO .
Such matches had taken place way back in the early 1900 s
Original wrestling is today's wrestling+submissions.
Firas please check Great Gama. He was a great wrestler.
About stand ups, I agree with you...
But Mma is about entertainment, mystery...
Your right, but it has to be reset, to re excite people that, anything can happen once again...
There's just something about two people walking towards each other with their hands in the air ready to collide
I have one question FIRAS
Is jiu jitsu best for smaller people along with other striking martial arts for self defense
plz reply
Taufique zaman id say yes. Jiu Jitsu is perfect for smaller people to defend against larger ones. You have chokes and joint locks which negate strength by allowing you to use your whole body against that one fragile area 👌
Imagine someone with the physical athleticism and explosiveness of a wrestler with the technique and genius of a bjj with the striking ability of a muay thai fighter. Holy fuck. Unstoppable man right there
It’s hard to beat the “ wrestler mentality”. It’s engrained in wrestlers from day 1
Miss the sub, loss position. it's more important to maintain your control of your opponents hips when punching is in play. Wrestling without subs or punching is only half an art though.
I agree when the rounds over they should be set the way it ended no saved by the bell
Seems like he's saying bjj doesn't work..
"They need unlimited time"
"They need to learn basic wrestling"
I mean I like bjj but he kind of put me off it, because if I do a sport and it doesn't cover the important areas of the sport.. then it doesn't work in my eyes.
I might be wrong though.
I do agree with the whole saved by the Bell/ stand them back up thing.. that's was a valid point. They should remain in the same position as before and stalling shouldn't be rewarded by standing them up again.
But I do hope bjj goes from a slow form to a more rapid flow and more aggressive
No Gi?
Wrestling. Obviously. Look at who the champions are. Look at who the top 10 in the world are. Wrestling is BY FAR more effective. Wrestling not just the pure skills but also the mentality that it breeds that is essential to making the transition into MMA.
Wrestlers are meaner, tougher, on WAY better shape, hit harder, more aggressive, faster, stronger, more athletic, mentally tougher, and much more.
The ultimate question is, what works best in a street fight. I go with boxing, karate and wrestling all day long.
Don't forget arnis
@Water Gun lethwe is not common in out side Asia.
thanks for your insights young master
More effective in what is the real question. I am a life long HS, NCAA and some international tournament experience I would say BJJ first than wrestling for fighting (aka vale tudo, 1990s UFCs).
For a wrestling match than wrestling is more effective.
Don't leg locks exist in catch wrestling?
It did after practice growing up lol. and still does everytime i go to my dads house lmao!
Dude. Thank you. Wrestling is undoubtedly important. My question is this, what if Jiu-Jitsu was in school programs across the US instead of wrestling. MMA would jump to new heights.
Or just put catch wrestling and judo in highschool
@@form_7wrestlingman810 No. Jiu-Jitsu. One program to rule them all.
@@Armbar4you then make catchwrestling great again
In my opinion wrestling is a better base then jiu jitsu. The Ability to manipulate another human being while standing, take them down, control, pin, etc is a more valuable skillset. I love jiu jitsu but the lack of training/skill while standing is an obvious weakness. Most of jiu jitsu is done on the ground. How exactly do you that without having prowess in the standing phase.
@@boywonder4509 I hear you, however Jiu-Jitsu has takedowns, pins, control, the whole 9. SOME gyms just don't emphasize takedowns enough.
Where wrestling seems to have the advantage is the intangibles. Thinks like work ethic, toughness, and heart are gained in most sports but especially wrestling. If BJJ was trained from a young age with an emphasis on perfect practice strategies like that are seen in the wrestling room, it would be over for traditional wrestling.
Jiu jutsu was not created by Brazil for valetudo but by Samuraï in feodal Japan. The objective was to kill or incapacitate as soon as possible because there is many potential attackers in case the weapon is unavailable.
" I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler" - Socrates
As a bjj practitioner. If i had to pick one wrestling. BUT i believe when we talk about the major grappling arts wrestling, judo, bjj, sambo. They really all shore up weak points of the others
"Holding you" in wrestling is a lot different from bjj.
How can anyone disagree with having extra skills being an advantage. As far as what is better on the street is a tricky subject because a street fighter who has no limit is very hard to beat because the guy will be ok with killing you. So it depends on your personal limits and how much damage you are ok with inflicting. How many street guys will rip open your cheek or ruin an eye or slap an ear and possibly deafen you in one ear. I think the best is a method that gets you out of there ASAP. Inflict serious pain and run.
@3:30 what if there were a separate 10 min (or 5min) clock which starts and runs only when they go to the ground , @tristar gym how do you think matches would play out then ? or how mma fights would be be different if so , thanks!
Catch as catch can wrestling is the go to place when considering this question.
Good stuff coach!
If you know Judo and can punch like Ronda Rousey, then you are invincible.
Didn't Ronda lose because of her striking?
Which is better for woodworking, a drill or a tape measure?
Like, okay fine, it’s good to have both. But if you HAD to only have one?
Which is better for
Wrestling in middle/high school and college, then do bjj
You can do bjj in your off season. You can always do both
Yes with that you would be a grappling machine but you would be useless in a bar fight or close qtrs fight
David grappling IS close quarters. What’s a boxer doing against a wrestler without range to fight?
Also wrestling is literally the art of picking someone up, slamming them, throwing them, and controlling them. Bar fights almost never happen and when they do it’s just one drunk asshole you have to control and bjj and wrestling will teach you that
@@Momsspaghetti777 Ayye, that's what I'm doing. Rn it is BJJ time.
Or you can see if you're fortunate enough to have catch wrestling in your area.
Most freestyle wrestlers who learn BJJ in the UFC just continue to _wrestle_ , then ground and pound, and then use the submissions they got from BJJ in isolation. They don't even use the system or the philosophy of BJJ.
If you're fortunate, you can just skip the middleman and learn a system of wrestling that has seamlessly integrated submission awareness (offensively and defensively) into the art as a whole: Catch.
Take Daniel Cormier, for example. Aside from the striking, of course, he's mostly doing freestyle wrestling (as opposed to other forms of wrestling).
By this I mean, his takedowns are mostly freestyle takedowns, as opposed to the Greco Roman of Randy Coutre, and as opposed to Catch's style that often puts your opponent directly into a submission from the takedown. They have very similar techniques, with the same names, but with different variations of emphasis on them. For example, a catch wrestler's double leg doesn't put you straight into your opponent's guillotine.
Very interesting video and makes perfect sense
Brother Firas. Put a bjj practitioner in a street fight against a wrestler or a judo practitioner, what do you think the outcome will be on concrete?
The BJJ guy would pull guard and submit them. Unless the BJJ guy is dumb enough to try taking either of those guys down. If he's stupid, than he's going to get slammed and lose the fight.
@@bane3991 The kool aid is strong with you.
The 100 meter sprint is more effective.
Great comment 👍
Beats even a knife
I think wrestlers are better at striking because they are good at footwork, changing levels and controlling distance on the feet. They are also not afraid of being taking down, hence they are more comfortable exchanging on the feet.
It would make more sense that a BJJ artist isn't afraid of being taken down because that's where they are most comfortable.
From what I understand BJJ came from judo which came from Greco Roman Wrestling.
I would say that the reason GRW isn't necessarily the dominant art is because it isn't complete for outside of its environment. In other words it is a sport which end is to pin the opponent not to submit him or knock him out.
If we were to adapt GRW to MMA it would be dominant as you would have the more superior base of wrestling with submission style locks added to it, while BJJ doesn't have the superior base.
BJJ is in fact Judo with the athletic element, which was taken from GRW, removed and adapted to allow a weaker fighter beat a more dominant opponent.
The issue is BJJ has had years to adapt to beating athletic arts and athletic arts have yet to have an opportunity to respond back. In other words GRW hasn't been adapted to respond to BJJ as there hasn't been that demand placed on the GRW world. I think we will begin to see a response from wrestling and when we do we will see it dominate BJJ.
Athleticism can be adapted to BJJ but the reverse is not as well adaptable. You can teach an athletic person holds and submissions, you can't teach a non athletic BJJ person athleticism.
What the actual f are you talking about? Judo coming from Greco? You must be huffing some 10th planet stuff lol.
i learned vale tudo based luta livre, exact same concepts as bjj (more wrestling and used to be far superior in leglocks due to catch wrestling backround and lack of gi), people today is mostly only thinking technique / mechanics, where tactics, startegy and mindset used to get way more attention
Wrestlers better strikers than ju-jitsu guys? Where did that come out? None are strikers!!
🤔 I lean towards BJJ because of the situation that wrestlers may put BJJ artists in will be more suited for their attack and defence.
In standing clinch exchanges the grappling predicaments would probably favour the wrestler, if such wrestler is more inclined to strike or go for sambo or judo throws, still dependant on defensive skills, although the marriage of wrestling and BJJ can be found in Sambo and Judo.
the real answer lies in where the artist knows their weaknesses in certain positions and strengths so that they can fluidity adapt.
Most takedowns/throws can be completed without following your opponent to the ground. Any wrestler who has a few years of high school wrestling can grab your average joe and slam him on his head/side/back without following him to the ground. A lot of slams aren't legal so it's you won't see them in competition.
Why is there very little wrestling in bjj matches. Their posture is very high and there're very few takedown attempts. Would appreciate an explanation.
Not every bjj practitioner is exposed to a significant amount of wrestling skills or tactics. Out of those who are exposed very few will exhibit proficiency to be comparable to actual wrestlers. Wrestling is an intricate style all its own, and what you see in bjj matches is largely just that....it's bjj.
IBJJF Scoring System
EASY because BJJ guys cannot wrestle a lick. they dont know how too
Stalling!....in bjj you can back up, pull away, but scoot......so it make the takedowns a little more frustrating to hit.
I think back in the day, BJJ guys would fight guys who didn't know BJJ. In that kind of a situation, so long as the fight gets to the ground it doesn't matter much how, the BJJ guys were perfectly willing to pull guard, sit down, do whatever it took to keep their opponent from having that puncher's chance. At that close BJJ range, there's a lot less random chance, and when BJJ was fighting other styles all they cared about was avoiding the ranges where there was random chance, like striking or wrestling distances. They'd rather take a disadvantageous position on the ground than spend a lot of time wrestling where they could get slammed in a scramble, so they didn't focus on that aspect of the game. Now that everyone knows a little Jiujitsu or Sambo, getting dominant position is more important so BJJ guys are learning more Judo than they used to.
Searched for this in reference to Olivera vs Islam… what’s your take on this fight? Thanks brother
Josh Barnett ( a Catch Wrester) did beat Dean Lister (BJJ). Sakuraba (catch wrester) was known as “the Gracie killer”. A Catch wrestler defeated Carlos Gracie. Later the three brother jumped the guy beat him with a metal pipe while holding him down hyper extended the catch wrester limbs. I would go with wrestling.
Wow, three examples that mean absolutely nothing. Josh Barnett is a BJJ World Champion by the way
@@g8le Josh Burnett is a BJJ champion but if you he asked him, he would say he is a catch wrestler. Don’t get too butt hurt r now
@@g8lethere’s more champions in UFC with a wrestling background than any other background. And as you know folk wrestling is a soft version of catch
@@g8le Barnet was awarded an honorary black belt by the Gracies. Yeah he may be a BJJ champ but that just proves he beat BJJ at its own game with cacc. C'mon bro
Bjj is most effective martial arts . If Bjj guy fighting guy against any other martial art (boxing, Muay thai , wrestling , Judo ....), he will win . But in MMA most important is wrestling when everyone is all rounded ;)
Ramce MMA
Clearly you’ve never been on the receiving end of a Uchi Mata on a solid surface.
Defective?
@@daveyponderosa9549 Yes because i have quite strong wrestling ;)
@@Alex-uo4qq Oh , thanks just now noticed it lol
@@Kubaaa555 agree , just didn't mentioned it as per topic
the whole "no stalling" rule is how you got judo. judoney waza, if you aren't actively going for a submission within the next 5 seconds, you get stood back up. and my opinion that is still a little too fast, and for BJJ you wouldn't have to stand up, but you would have to give a penalty to the staller, but still that might end up making a much more explosive BJJ guy. this is the exact reason why while judoka are not as good at nawaza as BJJ is, when judoka or on the ground and they are fighting, they are much more explosive and faster than BJJ practitioners.
so even between the BJJ and Judo rivalry, stalling on the ground is one of the things that gives BJJ it's personality. it's very tough to try and change that.
I don't think this guy understands wrestling. While bjj is developing, wrestling is undeveloping. I went to classes where collage wrestlers were teaching and some schools didn't allowed certain moves due to the fact how a single row would've dislocated joints. Wrestling is doing pretty good for undeveloping over the years. 100 year ago wrestling was completely different but took major changes due to the fact children would come back home severly injured, parents didn't like it(impaled them from working). Also age has nothing to do with grapple. My brother(2nd year HS)took a wrestling summer program and quickly got out his comfort zone.
"That (getting stood back up by the rules) should never happen unless there's a deliberate stalling by one of the fighters."
I know what you're getting at, but this is one of the biggest problems in MMA, namely strikers and wrestlers getting rewarded for stalling on the ground against jiujitsu specialists. We would not reward a striker for constantly retreating or only acting defensively, but we will reward the same people for acting purely defensively in the guard (for instance) to survive until the standup rule is invoked or the round ends.
Stalling should invoke the standup rule only when it is done by the person in the dominant position. In neutral positions like the closed guard, it should take a long time before the standup rule is used because to do otherwise would encourage either of the players to stall. Likewise, if you're mounted and you don't have the skills to get out (or whatever), you should be able to stall (as a survival tactic) without getting rewarded with the standup--it's not that stalling is inherently bad in those situations, but we don't want to create a perverse incentive either.
What is your opinion on Judo if there are no adult wrestling clubs in my area?
I'm just a random guy but un my opinion, if you adapt judo to no gi and mma, I don't see why it wouldn't be just as effective.
The two fighters who each one of them wiped out the entire Gracie family were both wrestlers. Matt Hughes, and Sakuraba. (Sakuraba defeated him in a very long fight. Not just in the UFC). The UFC fighter who is currently considered the best in the world, and perhaps the best ever, is a wrestler. Any other doubts?
Fair point but did those gracies or any bjj practitioner ever train wrestling a lot back in the day? They do now and that makes them more well rounded.
One of the main features of MMA is that it is freestyle. The UFC ruleset, in principle, has no special weight. Any promoters out there thinking of starting a new tournament, I hope you will not feel that you need to stick to the UFC template.
Well, 3 or 5 min three or five rounds actually strikers.
Like I have said many times, fights should start where they ended in the previous rounds.
If someone was pushed against the fence and the round ended, they should start from there in the next round. If someone was mounted and the round ended, they should start from the mount position in the next round.
UFC won't do it tho cos most of audience who are casuals like to see two guys brawling one another. They don't understand grappling arts cos it is indeed a bit complicated for untrained eyes thus they think it is boring. UFC is a business, they do and will set rules that are favoring strikers.
Even for Wrestlers, they need to take their opponents down in the next round because fights always start on the feet.
Taking well training guys down is not always easy if you have to do it again and again in the next rounds.
In real situation, once you are taken down and if you cannot get up by yourself, most likely you lose.
What is a bjj guy going to do if a wrestler slams him down? Wrestlers are explosive and fast and if they get a hold of you they could kill you with one slam to the concrete
Abdelatif Ardone what is a wrestler going to do if a wrestler slams him down?
@@aMANuhtah not get taken down in the first place, that is kinda th entire sport
Which would be better to learn along side bjj, Wrestling or Judo? Which would be better for take downs and stand up game?
For me as a Russian we don’t need BJJ, wrestling and judo is all we need
CATCH WRESTLING!!!!!
Prowrestling sucks
@@graciederangementsyndrome3669 Renzo's arm breaking from a Double Wristlock by Sakuraba. Pro Wrestling sucks 😂😂😂.
@Special Ed Look up Catch Wrestling! CM Punk is not a catch wrestler, hence why he trained in BJJ and got demolished!! Sakuraba, Josh Barnett, Karl Gotch and Lou thez are/were legitimate grapplers who are legends in MMA and wrestling. Either you're a troll or you commented about something you have no idea about 😂.
HURR DURR IF YOUR SHOULDERS TOUCH THE GROUND THAT MEANS YOU LOSE, GREAT WAY TO TRAIN FIGHTING HURR DURR ONCE THAT BJJ IDIOT GOES TO HIS GUARD HES SO DONE IM SO MUCH BETTER.....
NO CHOKES DONT CHOKE ME ITS BARBARIC
@@RealWolfgangTV Would you rather have a man on top of you with your closed guard?? 😂😂. Where do you think the 'Kimura' comes from and good few other BJJ moves??
chad Mendes is not just a wrestler
I think wrestling is kind of better a little bit
Just because wrestling in my opinion
Wrestling is pretty versytile by you could standing while slamming your opponent and grapple at all times
As for bjj,Welp don't get me wrong.it's easily one of if not the top tier martial arts if mma's not included but there's only one problem, it's needs the bjj fighters to be on the ground if need to be effective and as far as I know,on the ground is more like game over
So that's what I think(it's okay if some of you disagree, it's just my opinion)
Wrestling + Boxing = wins.
Even his #1 fighter GSP Used those 2 disciplines the most.
Khamzat's wrestling plus BJJ blue belt is the perfect combo, man.
The best combination is wrestling dominant with knowledge of basic submission offense and defense... that alone can take someone quite far in amateur MMA
Most fights on the street last only 1 or 2 minutes, hence wrestling would be superior because fast burst of energy is needed right up front. You're not going to be rolling in a street fight, feeling your way around like in a tournament.
Catch!!!
100%
Catch is King!
I think Firas makes a mistake in saying BJJ guys are worse strikers than wrestlers because of the ‘training program’ and it’s effects on athleticism. I think he’s confusing the fact that anyone who is a top level wrestler has risen through the ranks of the sport by virtue of the fact that they were naturally athletic. To be a successful wrestler, you need athleticism and as such, evolutionary, these guys are the ones you see succeed. Don’t get me wrong they also train hard to acheive this, but everyone knows things like explosive power, V02 max and ability to gain lean muscle mass, are heavily influenced by genetics.
On the other hand in BJJ, you CAN be successful without being the most athletic. This is because there is an ocean of techniques out there and a slight edge in technical ability in a certain area can make the difference in a match and lead to a submission. As such, if you think of the sport as an environment that is selecting for certain qualities, there is less selective pressure for athletes with freaky athleticism in BJJ, as opposed to wrestling where such attributes are pretty much paramount to succeed.
If you need some examples, look at Covingtons CRAZY cardio, look at Usmans crazy combination of cardio, power and strength - the list goes on. Then compare that with the likes of BJ Penn, Demaian Maia. You can see the sports are selecting for different genetic qualities. Don’t get me wrong, some strength and conditioning can help to mitigate these differences to some extent, but really you could give Demian Maia all the power and conditioning training you want, he’s never going to have the freak athleticism of Usman.
I’m very doubtful of Firas’s ideas about starting young being the key to developing athleticism. Where is the evidence for this being more important than who your parents are? Don’t get me wrong again, starting young must likely help to some degree, but I can only imagine that to be limited.