Finding Two Ore Cars 300 Feet Below Ground!

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  • Опубликовано: 26 июн 2022
  • In 1899, gold was discovered in this canyon and the prospectors were eventually led to this site which was the source of said gold. This is a very unique mine in that they used metal counterweights and a cable pulley system to open and close the ore chutes as well as the presence of much of the heavy machinery/equipment including a couple ore cars! This was such an extensive mine I didn't fully get the chance to explore all of it, hopefully I get the chance to go back and finish it off. Without any further ado, I hope you guys enjoy this one.

Комментарии • 267

  • @jmorganz3
    @jmorganz3 Год назад +36

    I can't believe he was able to tote those 100lb balls of steel down and up all those old ladders. Dude, my feet were sweating watching this video. Wow

  • @raymondsmith6504
    @raymondsmith6504 2 года назад +18

    Those ladders are nightmare inducing.

  • @nathangibson3264
    @nathangibson3264 2 года назад +101

    So many things have to go right for a explore like that to be perfect. But it only takes one thing to make it go horribly wrong. Use ropes and bring a partner. I've got 18 current years working in underground mines and believe me, things happen in the blink of an eye. Stay safe my friend...

    • @hemptwistable
      @hemptwistable Год назад +7

      Yeah i hear you man. I would feel better about it if he at least tied in at the top of ladders and used a descender as a backup with some ascending kit ready to get him back up if needed

    • @ab2230
      @ab2230 Год назад +4

      Came here looking for a RIP post and that this was found footage

    • @lmm.5619
      @lmm.5619 Месяц назад

      cap

  • @capthawkeye8010
    @capthawkeye8010 Год назад +21

    I think even by the safety standards of the day-this mine would've been considered extremely dangerous to work. There are sections where ladders are passing through ore cart rails-the rails for which are unsupported at numerous points, ore slides with no stops, etc. They must've been finding a lot of gold in this one because of how intensively worked it was-the disregard for safety was total.

  • @jeremysomeone
    @jeremysomeone 2 года назад +15

    Balls of steel! Nicely done!

  • @kennethalmond8922
    @kennethalmond8922 2 года назад +12

    I'm only 21mins in and my stomach is churning for your safety. Yikes those are a scary set of ladders!!! Thanks for sharing - what a ride :)

  • @deepwoodguy2
    @deepwoodguy2 2 года назад +5

    WOW...that was a great explore, you sure got a good leg workout for the week... And 2 ore cars 300 feet down... BUT... with all that deep exploring, Please take a Buddy with you and be safe...👍👍

  • @Reziac
    @Reziac Год назад +8

    There's a manufacturer's plaque on the front left side of that first ore car. Would have been nice to see it. Terrific find, regardless.
    Date on the chute above them was 1955.
    Flappy piece on the flywheel looks like a brake shoe.

  • @TomandJulieMineExploring
    @TomandJulieMineExploring Год назад +26

    That's a fun one isn't it, Jerith? I love that ladder system. FYI you didn't miss much on the lower levels. The ladder near the ore cars going down comes to a very wet cave like area. The main shaft with the skip track and manway hits water before coming to the lowest level. The skip car is upside down in the shaft below the second level. The ore car sports a Tropico Mine badge from Rosamond CA. The fire started by accident sometime in the 1950's. Good explore!

  • @grandmamichelle6753
    @grandmamichelle6753 2 года назад +8

    I don’t know when I’ve seen so much exposed smooth foot wall in a mine before. Impressive.

  • @everettamador9870
    @everettamador9870 Год назад +2

    My deceased Father was a hard rock miner...His last words was "Son....No mine exploration is worth getting killed for....!!" I have listened to each and every word to this day...

  • @kimbra1132
    @kimbra1132 2 года назад +8

    That is one deep mine and the ore cars were a plus. Neat artifacts too. The gold vein has hematite, the red material, and is very rich in gold. So much mine and so little time. Hope you get to see the rest of it someday.

  • @hillsidehearthduluth
    @hillsidehearthduluth 2 года назад +8

    Something about the brief headlight malfunction, massive stopes and endless ladders gave me the willies. Hell of an amazing explore. And I think the cat is
    cool.

  • @scotts3938
    @scotts3938 2 года назад +6

    That is one of the coolest mines I've every seen. The maze of ladders were incredible and the ore cars were really neat. Thanks for the explore.

  • @llewdis
    @llewdis 2 года назад +8

    The way you blithely walk across all those sections of false floor gave me the willies!

  • @antarcticmoongiant2691
    @antarcticmoongiant2691 Год назад +4

    Man i felt the doom feeling when the rocks cut loose while on a ladder 300 ft down.
    I have explored mines in north idaho & they can be really scary in many ways.
    Cant imagine the anount of labor that went into that mine. Unreal.

  • @jasonlee7129
    @jasonlee7129 Год назад +15

    This is really amazing watching this since I'm unaware of anything quite like this in MN - The only thing that bothers me is seeing all the modern trash lying about, namely the plastic water bottles. Man, it just kind of ruins it in some way for me knowing that people are littering like that disrespecting the area. I guess it pulls me out of that nostalgic feeling?
    Anyway, I wish there was an underground explorer's code of "Leave it as you found it" or "Trash in, trash out" like we have here up North in the Boundary Waters Canoe Areas.
    Otherwise, I love watching these videos!!! So cool to see what "A day at the office" may have looked like for some back in the day!!!

  • @johnsfreitag
    @johnsfreitag 2 года назад +17

    Just a bit about the hoist: The device beside it was a motor, not a generator, the wheel beside it with the clamshell you moved back and forth was a brake assembly, The gridlike thing the behind the drum was an electrical resistor...it was used as part of the motor speed control and, possibly, an electrical retarder to provide speed control during lowering the hoist. The switch behind, of course, brought electrical power to the winch. Great find! And as you said, in pretty complete condition. Thanks for the fine video, it was an exciting trip into the past. Keep them coming and, of course, be careful! Do you ever run into any bad air or gas in you explorations? How do you check? Take care.

    • @rockjockchick
      @rockjockchick Год назад +3

      Ya. I was wondering how he checked for bad air. He most likely doesn’t.

  • @torxxx1
    @torxxx1 2 года назад +10

    great video, Impressive to see how massive some of the openings are. I dont think I've ever seen so many ore shoots in one mine!
    only thing I'll criticize is the lack of being roped in when you are climbing rotten ladders. Going alone, using a rope while going vertical could be a life saver. stay safe!

  • @olddogdan
    @olddogdan 2 года назад +20

    Fascinating. It looks like you are pretty cautious, but still I wanted to say “ your shoelace is untied!!!” at one point. Also thinking some backup climbing equipment might be wise for the ladder sections. That ore car #3 looked like it might have a nameplate on one side, that would be a good photo next visit. Thanks for sharing your adventures. Stay safe.

  • @haroldnelson3734
    @haroldnelson3734 Год назад +3

    Such an awesome mine! Looks like they just walked away from it and never came back. So much is still intact and functional. Thanks for taking us along with you!

  • @jamesmcmahon4651
    @jamesmcmahon4651 2 года назад +14

    I watch many mine exploring videos from many people but your videos are in the top 3 for being extensive and very interesting. Your narrating and pointing out things of interest is great its almost like we are their in person. Keep up that good work but remain being careful everywhere you go in a mine. Make sure you always have at least one person with you there in case something happens. Maybe would not be a bad idea to use those little walkie talkies that some explorers so you can keep in contact with the other people some mines are so vast and extensive that it might be possible to get lost and always have an extra flash light and extra batteries also a couple of small bottles of drinking water in your backpack might be a good idea too. This video was great, thanks !!

  • @rlmiller007
    @rlmiller007 Год назад +2

    I worked uneground in a mine in the 1970's. We would fill the skip with ore and then push it and jump on for a ride to the main shaft.

    • @philliphall5198
      @philliphall5198 Год назад

      Your very brave because I don’t think I could take being in there

  • @rkuhl712
    @rkuhl712 Год назад +5

    I didn't used to have vertigo, but after watching this video, I'm pretty sure I do. That being said, I wish I knew where this mine is. That looks freaking awesome

  • @iamjaychase1
    @iamjaychase1 Год назад +3

    All I think about is riding those two carts like a roller coaster in Indiana Jones and The Temple of Doom

  • @mtnbkr277
    @mtnbkr277 Год назад +9

    How did you not get disoriented and lost down there?? So many twists and turns, ups and downs. Hell I got lost just following along with you. Stay safe dude and be sure to have an emergency plan when you go on these adventures. Thanks for sharing!

    • @rockjockchick
      @rockjockchick Год назад +1

      He was talking about using the right hand rule to keep track. Always going to the right. Then always go left on the way back.
      Edit: I’d still make sure to have a partner and tag the way I went with chalk or something myself.

  • @stevencox9452
    @stevencox9452 2 года назад +3

    I hope you saved that Lucky Strike pack, it predates World War 11. When the war started the government took all the green colorants they could get for military use. Lucky Strike ran the moto "Lucky Strike Green goes to War" That's quite a find!

  • @stibium
    @stibium 4 месяца назад

    Thanks buddy. Take care. It's a terrific job. I'm watching it from Russia. You've got a brave heart. Don't go alone.

  • @waterfalls4540
    @waterfalls4540 Год назад +2

    Outstanding! Reminds me of exploring mines with family and friends in the 70's. Great work!

  • @conqueringlion420
    @conqueringlion420 Месяц назад

    Respect to the hard working tradesmen men with almost no technology back then besides pure manpower and faith

  • @lotharschiese8559
    @lotharschiese8559 2 года назад +10

    44:37 a parking brake, 44:40 electric motor, 46:34 a bank of resistors to control motor speed. 45:59 on the left side is the drum brake, you pull down on the handle!

  • @oubliette862
    @oubliette862 Год назад +2

    I'm not a miner, but as a general rule, when on a ladder, especially handmade ladders, whenever possible don't grab the steps hold the sides of the ladder.

  • @davidjones5062
    @davidjones5062 2 года назад

    Really great job of documenting this mine. Tanks for posting.

  • @edwardaustin740
    @edwardaustin740 2 года назад +1

    I'm always excited to see what you have in store for us.. It's much appreciated.

  • @frankierutherford1888
    @frankierutherford1888 2 года назад

    I really appreciate you taking us along.

  • @georgesmith8113
    @georgesmith8113 2 года назад

    Awesome explore!
    Great video!
    Thanks!
    👍👍👍👊😎

  • @mybikebullet8808
    @mybikebullet8808 2 года назад

    That was awesome! Thanks for sharing

  • @bdcrews07
    @bdcrews07 Год назад +1

    You’ve got balls of steel man for going into that alone. Love the videos

  • @goldendredger
    @goldendredger Год назад +10

    Hey brother great video and I get the urge to check out the ladders and tunnels but you are pressing your luck in these tunnels. I grew up mining active tunnels and I was taught even your voice can set off a collapse in a tunnel that's old. As an active miner they would not enter old mine shafts like this. Takes several guys and a plan in case a cave in. Tunnels are like playing Russian roulette with a pistol and one bullet ready to go.

    • @ExploringCabinsandMines
      @ExploringCabinsandMines Год назад

      When's the last time you heard of someone dieing in a mine , then when's the last time you heard of someone dieing in a car ?

    • @Shawn-yp9ic
      @Shawn-yp9ic Год назад +6

      @@ExploringCabinsandMines when you heard about it, or if you heard about it, is completely irrelevant (with millions riding in cars daily and almost nobody climbing into old mines what would you expect, an even death ratio?) that little comment is NOT something you should use to make a decision on something that could cost you your life. Even worse than an instant death would be a collapse trapping you or a broken back or even leg leaving you to slowly succumb to a long terrifying death.. Are ropes that bad? Having a partner who might be able to bring help?

    • @ExploringCabinsandMines
      @ExploringCabinsandMines Год назад

      @@Shawn-yp9ic Weird I don't recall saying don't use ropes hmmmm.

    • @stevenb4799
      @stevenb4799 Год назад +1

      ​@davetileguy hmmm your weird

  • @hastyone9048
    @hastyone9048 Год назад +1

    Literally treasure down there.

  • @giuliom8520
    @giuliom8520 Год назад +1

    Most amazing mine ever!

  • @VendettaProspecting
    @VendettaProspecting 2 года назад +5

    hope you boys are doing good!!! Keep up the hard work and stay safe!

  • @droberts73543
    @droberts73543 Год назад +1

    Nice explore loved watching

  • @jsarkozy
    @jsarkozy 2 года назад +1

    WOW!!! this reminds me of that old game "Chutes & Ladders"...just crazy!!!....this mine is incredible!

  • @The5As7
    @The5As7 Год назад +2

    You really need someone with you when you do this bro.

  • @SueGirling68
    @SueGirling68 2 года назад +2

    Hi Jerith, this was such an awesome explore of this huge mine, I cannot believe how many ladders and stopes there were, a highly dangerous
    exploration though but you handled those ladders like a boss. At 44:38 that part you weren't sure about is I believe a brake shoe to control the
    winch, normally the shoes are attached a bit better as you can see from the right hand one.
    A really cool mine explore, there was so much to see especially those 2 ore carts and that winch, amazing.
    Thank you for sharing, much love. xx💖

  • @I.Live4oldcars.prospecting
    @I.Live4oldcars.prospecting 2 года назад

    What a awesome mine. So very interesting to see.

  • @rosalindafaye5668
    @rosalindafaye5668 Год назад +1

    Amazing footage! You are a brave soul 😂 thanks for taking us on this adventure!

  • @HollywoodGraham
    @HollywoodGraham 2 года назад +2

    I am glad somebody else noticed your untied shoe, dose not sound like a big thing but if you tripped because of it and made a header down the shaft it would be a big thing. I see you did tie it at sometime. Great explore, hope you go back sometime.

  • @TnTMyers2010
    @TnTMyers2010 2 года назад +4

    Phenomenal Explore Jerith! There was a name plate on ore cart #3 at 35.48. Something to go back to and film. The glass jar had an embossed number 22 on the top left side of the bottom. Could be from 4-1922. Can not wait for you to go back and finish the explore! As always thank you for 'taking us' with you. Excellent video and narration! And thank you for using the correct terms of the mining industry.

  • @votaws
    @votaws Год назад +1

    Amazing looks like you hit the gold mine of hunting gold mines ...supper big

  • @karloswithak6823
    @karloswithak6823 Год назад

    Very happy I stumbled across this channel. One of the coolest videos I've seen

  • @Cpt.BEARDless
    @Cpt.BEARDless Год назад +1

    Im blown away at the condition of the steel down there. Almost 0 rust after all that time. Steel rusts where I live insanely fast so thats crazy to see for me.

  • @NaomisAdventures
    @NaomisAdventures 2 года назад

    Awesome mine. Its so cool to see the ore cars.

  • @qldabandonedmines
    @qldabandonedmines 2 года назад +2

    Super impressive mate. You handled those ladders like a champ. Thanks for the amazing video

  • @robertcox7220
    @robertcox7220 Год назад

    Awesome finds great video.

  • @mikegrimes6999
    @mikegrimes6999 Год назад +1

    I wouldn't have went down that ladder if there was 10,000 lbs of gold with a case of 1880's Levi's on top of them.

  • @RickNelsonMn
    @RickNelsonMn 2 года назад +1

    I think I've seen Frank's episode of this mine. Because I remember those ore cars. It's cool you found his tag. I was worried about you alone on the ladders. You're sense of adventure is strong.
    This was an awesome explore and I'm so glad you're getting out. Graffiti, STAN 55 was a pretty good date, even though it's much older. I like those oil cans. The stopes we're huge and the ladders never ending. 👍🏻

  • @samuelgilbert9734
    @samuelgilbert9734 2 года назад +1

    44:30 It's not a generator; it's the electric motor for the hoist. The break is broken, but we can still see the pads.

  • @carlagarrett8584
    @carlagarrett8584 Год назад

    those little cars would be a very nice addition to a mining museum

  • @jamesburke5709
    @jamesburke5709 2 года назад +5

    That was an awesome mine there now and dammit man you really need to find a friend or buddy to take with you in them and I'm willing to say that you climbed probably five hundred feet down those ladders in it too

  • @frankrodriguez6546
    @frankrodriguez6546 Год назад

    Awesome video.

  • @user-mf8ef2rh9n
    @user-mf8ef2rh9n 10 месяцев назад

    Awesome experience i would say you had exploring that gold mine

  • @sblowder4467
    @sblowder4467 Год назад +1

    Love watching your adventures. Great video work and narration. You went down so far in this mine I thought you might hit molten lava at any point! However, doing stuff like this without a partner could prove disastrous for you! If one of those ladders had broken off after you went down past it, and you had no known escape route below you....... Don't let it happen! We want you to be around for a long time!

  • @zerofox7347
    @zerofox7347 2 года назад

    Cool place I’ve seen this mine a few times now, on RUclips that is. 😄 Thanks for the great video buddy!

  • @getreal1702
    @getreal1702 2 года назад +3

    back room was for dyno mite front room with bench for cutting fuses

  • @AmishHitman73.Archive
    @AmishHitman73.Archive Год назад +2

    i dont know if you know this. but MAAANY of us that go underground could only wish to find what you find, you find the "real deal" and it blows me away at how life is underground in a real mine, i really mean this but thank you so much for doing this. its a risk and i am not forgetting this. please dont ever go down a part for a viewer. only you

    • @Shawn-yp9ic
      @Shawn-yp9ic Год назад +2

      I think what your saying is never make the decision to go down for a viewer or for someone else and only do it if you are doing it for yourself first. If so I wholeheartedly agree with that. I would not want for anyone to be taking on the risk involved just to bring it to the viewer, me, and then loose their life doing it. Do for yourself Brother and thank you for sharing, don't do it for us. That will lead you to more risky decisions and bad ones.

    • @AmishHitman73.Archive
      @AmishHitman73.Archive Год назад

      @@Shawn-yp9ic exactly what i mean

  • @crazyfvck
    @crazyfvck Год назад +1

    That was an amazing explore! :)

  • @joesmith1922
    @joesmith1922 Год назад

    I am SHOCKED. Ore cars found in an abandoned mine!!! At at the 300 level, to boot! Wow...

  • @Howmykidstrytokillme
    @Howmykidstrytokillme 11 месяцев назад

    You remind me of my kids. Always getting me into crazy mines. This one goes forever! You’re crazy kid 🤣!
    Great video, awesome mine!

  • @gingerbread6614
    @gingerbread6614 Год назад

    Thank you

  • @gingerbread6614
    @gingerbread6614 Год назад

    Great mine

  • @joesayre838
    @joesayre838 Год назад +1

    You sir are awesome crazy.....

  • @mrjeff2396
    @mrjeff2396 Год назад +4

    My worse fear would be batteries give up the ghost!

    • @willong1000
      @willong1000 Год назад

      That's a scenario that can easily get a person killed even above ground given the wrong circumstances. In the Pacific Northwest (PNW), where I've lived most of my life, hypothermia is one of the more common fatal agents. When bushwhacking in thick forests, even a day-hike can turn deadly for someone already soaked and chilled if they wait too long to commence return trip or encounter unexpected difficulties on a loop. I had just such a challenging misadventure about seventeen months ago on a mushroom-picking outing. Upon realizing that I hadn't paid enough attention to the time, rather than backtracking the way I had come, I decided to drop straight down-slope to a trail that I knew existed just a bit over 1/2 mile away. Unfortunately, I got enmeshed in a tangle of windfall timber in a jungle of deep salal brush that was also entrained with black berry vines. Even though I carried a crank-rechargeable flashlight as a consequence of other "adventures" in the PNW, I kept fingers crossed that my light would survive through the multiple falls off wet logs I suffered before finally making it to that trail more than four hours after nightfall. The next morning was the first one of 2021 that I found my roof covered in frost. I now carry a second light in my pack for such outings.

  • @PHARRAOH
    @PHARRAOH Год назад

    one of your best

  • @Rcrow481
    @Rcrow481 Год назад

    Love me some micro Monday 🤤 it’s Groundhog Day I hope first time I’d repeat Monday over and over again 😂

  • @sigdog365
    @sigdog365 Год назад

    21:25 and 21:47
    Your untied shoe while climbing down the ladder really got my OCD flared up. Great video.

  • @ronaldsnell1503
    @ronaldsnell1503 Год назад

    Awesome thanks

  • @cynthiatyler1606
    @cynthiatyler1606 2 года назад

    Love it. Shuts and ladders mine

  • @timefactortheoryofgravitya7578
    @timefactortheoryofgravitya7578 11 месяцев назад

    Wow! Such great ladders to such awesome stopes! Game of "Chutes and ladders" IRL. I have been watching mine explorer videos for years but you must have found the one with the most "almost" vertical connected stopes I have ever seen. They must have have mined tens of thousands of tons of ore to make those stopes. Wish I was there!

  • @australiantruckspotting8883
    @australiantruckspotting8883 2 года назад

    Great video, be safe !!!

  • @elevatordave2946
    @elevatordave2946 2 года назад +6

    You have to wonder how they got that stuff down there

    • @zerofox7347
      @zerofox7347 2 года назад +4

      Slowly over many years.

  • @ivantoxie
    @ivantoxie 10 месяцев назад

    I can't believe you went down all those ladders. If something went wrong you would be in for the panic attack of a lifetime. There would be no way of getting help unless you told a friend where you were going. It didn’t know mines kept going down that deep. I would definitely want a crank power light. You should bring a tablet or something and map out this entire mine to scale as best you can. Take pictures of everything and add icons in the computer model so the pictures pop up once the icons are clicked.

  • @davec9244
    @davec9244 Год назад

    thank you

  • @giuliom8520
    @giuliom8520 Год назад +3

    I wish you could have told us what area you're in. You could be vague, like is this Death Valley, San Gabriels, Angeles National Forect, Lone Pine, etc.

  • @RRIA_America
    @RRIA_America Год назад

    Never have I ever seen a Mine Explorer ride a Minecart. Amazing video mate!

  • @Acein3055
    @Acein3055 Год назад +1

    Great videos. Consider bringing someone with you in case you get hurt and/or trapped.

  • @davegrummett1263
    @davegrummett1263 2 года назад +2

    Wow! Just Wow! Awesome mine indeed. I'd be interested to know how much gold they pulled out of there. Those stopes (up and down) were huge. And that massive slanted foot wall with the ladder laying on it was unlike anything I've seen in any other mine exploring videos.

  • @kearnsey64
    @kearnsey64 2 года назад +39

    I love your vids but you need to be more careful. I'm sure I'm not the first to tell you. You only have one life, if you value it, use better equipement.

  • @godfrey9769
    @godfrey9769 Год назад

    Greatest videos you have on RUclips.. I love it and enjoy it.. bro damn your brave to climbed down the ladder lol 😂 happy you made out with a cool video and safe..

  • @MaineOffGrid.
    @MaineOffGrid. 5 месяцев назад

    The drive at the end reminds me of driving through Nipton CA towards Searchlight NV. Or driving from Nipton towards Kelso.

  • @GRosa250
    @GRosa250 Год назад +6

    I’m amazed at how giant that mine is. Did it look like any of it was naturally occurring cavern or was it all completely dug out? Also feel bad for the cat. It probably died of starvation from being left in there.

    • @cdd4248
      @cdd4248 Год назад

      Yes, made me sad and sick.

  • @muff72mz
    @muff72mz Год назад +2

    Die Räder sehen an der Lauffläche noch so blank aus. Ist das Bergwerk erst vor kurzen geschlossen worden? Auch das Holz sieht noch so gut aus.

  • @mojustin
    @mojustin 6 месяцев назад

    Thanks for the free anxiety watching this lol. Man your channel is awesome. Be safe bro use some gear I enjoy watching you 😂

  • @TheSilmarillian
    @TheSilmarillian Год назад

    Nice 1 hello from Australia opal miner here

  • @lynnquinn7244
    @lynnquinn7244 Год назад

    Just for fun I googled Hendrie and Bolthoff... wow, quite a few entries! Not too sure why I keep watching these, as I am afraid of heights! Have to look away from time to time. Fun anyway, but please do take the safety advice from these folks with mining experience!

  • @RattyFlyer
    @RattyFlyer Год назад

    The cages make me wonder if anyone was ever held captive in those old mines.

  • @paulsotheron710
    @paulsotheron710 Год назад

    Scary stuff. Easy to get lost down there. Rather you than me.

  • @AllenManor
    @AllenManor Год назад

    Fascinating, but the stuff of nightmares. When I was young I would have done this without thinking but now I just imagine a ladder breaking and being stuck hundreds of feet below ground alone with a dying flashlight. Fun to watch though.

    • @WesternMineDetective
      @WesternMineDetective  Год назад +1

      That's why gotta come prepared with multiple lights, several spare batteries and safety equipment. Looking back I should've definitely brought rope along but I'm just glad to have gotten out of there in one piece.

  • @elevatordave2946
    @elevatordave2946 2 года назад

    Hey anytime you go buy a shiv or a wheel and it's really old like that it's always a good idea to spin it just for the heck of it