2:20 opens up a possible alternative or indeed complimentary explanation to the one given in the video about why the children don't skip the needless steps. For the the children, it's *not* just about the treat. The children may derive a small amount of amusement from pushing and tapping, because it is similar to the types of toys that they play with already. Also, if you call it a game, then the children will understand that there are rules to follow, and will want to follow the rules to play the game correctly. In addition, humans are used to technology, and the idea that doing one thing can result in something completely different, and seemingly unrelated; eg. pushing a button on an elevator to make it go up. You can't see the process occurring, but you just learn what the cause and effect is. The researchers could have eliminated the above possibilities, by issuing a challenge: "If you can find an easier way, I'll give you a whole pack of gummy bears." This could set up a priority in their mind: "I could either play with this toy, and lose my reward, or I can focus my attention on getting another gummy bear, and ignore my desire to play with it." I'd be interested to see if that works. Another idea might be to ask the kids to offer an explanation for what they think the pushing and tapping actually does. I'd stake money on the fact that the most popular explanation (discounting "I don't know") will be variations of "it unlocks the door." And hence, we will have demonstrated that the children have a much deeper understanding of how the human world works than the apes do.
I agree. Alternatively they could have told the children this is an identical box to the black one. Get the treat out however you think would be easiest. Without further explanation. Otherwise you can't expect children who are taught to follow specific rules to do things differently while an adult is watching them.
No, I think it's just a game for the kid. The ape probably doesn't see the human as an authority figure as the kid does. A kid might not think he's allowed to get the treat, while the ape is like whatever gets me the treat I'm allowed to do.
Yeah that monkey needs to learn you cheat and your penis snipped off but you keep yours balls so the monkey is driven mad in holiness unable to ever release Such joy to see the monkey suffer
Like another comment stated, I think it would've been nice to ask the kids to find an easier way to get the treat. they're just following instructions with an adult watching them, i wouldn't expect them to skip to the end. the chimps are very smart though nonetheless.
@@dennisbowen452 yep, just imagine if they had the same strength as an adult or even juvenile chimp. all those tantrums and hitting or biting incidents would quickly turn potentially lethal lol
I think the kids did the silly routine because they don't want to offend the grown up and risk being shamed. i think maybe humans have a higher need to be socially accepted even if it means doing things that are silly and nonsensical.
If I was the kid, I would also do the unnecessary tapping, because I always allow the possibility that there is something that I don't understand. For the chimps, they don't understand that they don't understand.
What no, you are literally just following authority and in hindsight giving an excuse to why you made the choice. Literally every human is a social animal, its not like its a bad thing for a child to trust adults like their parents or teachers for the most part.
It's only a fair experiment if the adults didn't verbally communicate with kids but purely just demonstrate as they did with the chimps. Language and tone are very suggestive. The children are very aware of the context they are in and they are being monitored in some fashion so they better behave or appease the adult. Those chimps were probably already subject to some variation of sweet treat experiments/training so they expect the same with their context strongly fixed to the end goal - get the treat.
For the Chimp it is all about the treat. For humans it is all about the process. Humans do what they know will work and learn the processes first then try changing it later. They do not take a chance on the out come being different if they change the process. I saw a test where they used rakes to get a treat. At first they did about the same about 50/50 but when the human child was shown to flip the rake over they would get the treat 100% of the time because they wee focused on the process, where when the chimp was shown it still was 50/50 because they were focused on the treat.
Humans are, first and foremost, social learners. We teach each other things, but learning can only happen in an environment of trust. This is why children who are abused by those who are supposed to protect and care for them have poorer school performance and lower IQ's, lower educational attainment, and lower socioeconomic status in adulthood.
I've gone over this repeatedly in my mind...trying to grasp the underlying WTF response. Does this suggest that humans are innately stupid? Not necessarily...I do think there is a valid argument to the claim that humans are clever but not very bright...but this study suggests something else. After hours of wrenching my mind open wide enough to see past my personal bias, I put it in perspective of all our other 'failings' at birth...our inability to walk or swim at birth, for example. It dawned on me that this study reflects just how undeveloped our brains are at birth...relative to the thought that we are essentially born significantly pre-mature in order to fit our brains through the birth canal. Not only must we learn physical abilities that most other mammals are born with...but we must learn and develop critical thinking skills as well. Obviously, this is how superstitions arise...and may explain why, in the 21st century, we still believe in magic (weight loss, penis enlargement, lotteries, etc.).
Humans tend not to cut corners. Here comes the division of labour/knowledge/expertise that is the backbone of human civilisation. Every human achievement is the fruit of collective effort and everybody is an expert in his/her own field. No man can possess all the knowledge needed to build a skyscraper, airliner, or even an electric kettle: it must be a collective effort of complimentary talents. Chimps are not capable of that and have to be smart every time and rely on their own individual reasoning, while humans are better off because they are able to ignore their own 'common sense' and blindly 'ape' the specialist(s) while doing only the bits they are proficient at. That is why we have civilisation and chimps don't.
Perhaps because humans are taught to be superstitious and follow silly conventions by other human beings. Apes don't have silly things like rituals, superstition, religion. This sort of behavior is just children following rituals
You call humans silly, but it's their silliness that made them the apex predator of the planet and moved them into space while monkeys still claw out bugs from dirt to eat them.
A genetic predisposition for ritual and religion was programmed into our DNA by the extraterrestrial Annunaki that genetically engineered us from indigenous earth primates so we would be easier to control reverencing the Annunaki as Gods and Goddesses. We still sacrifice our labor and wealth to these long gone alien overlords as we did millennia ago when we were their slave labor and still ask them to "give us our daily bread" as though we didn't realize we're on our own. Some humans, through government and religion, have learned to make a tidy living off of this human weakness.
But wait, do you have to poke the stick into the box??? what does stabbing the core of the box inside do lol? Looks like it worked. Wow that was amazing, they both imitated and knew what to do and even used its finger. You know, the kids are more brainwashed, they think its some game and are doing imitation, but the monkey is starving, older I bet, and is just using its dying courage to get that damn food out already. The kids are not, they have it too easy, just look at them all dressed and clean, the monkey is a POW DO YOU REALIZE THAT!? It's a Prisoner Of War (POW). It imitated, is that not GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU? More and diverse data, better body to manipulate tools/etc, and more compute lead to intelligence, that's it. You learn this the more you work on it. But you gotta feel like a POW to get where I got. I'm ruthless. Huh!!!!!! You gotta stop imitating and twist up what you learnt more.
2:20 opens up a possible alternative or indeed complimentary explanation to the one given in the video about why the children don't skip the needless steps. For the the children, it's *not* just about the treat. The children may derive a small amount of amusement from pushing and tapping, because it is similar to the types of toys that they play with already. Also, if you call it a game, then the children will understand that there are rules to follow, and will want to follow the rules to play the game correctly.
In addition, humans are used to technology, and the idea that doing one thing can result in something completely different, and seemingly unrelated; eg. pushing a button on an elevator to make it go up. You can't see the process occurring, but you just learn what the cause and effect is.
The researchers could have eliminated the above possibilities, by issuing a challenge: "If you can find an easier way, I'll give you a whole pack of gummy bears." This could set up a priority in their mind: "I could either play with this toy, and lose my reward, or I can focus my attention on getting another gummy bear, and ignore my desire to play with it." I'd be interested to see if that works.
Another idea might be to ask the kids to offer an explanation for what they think the pushing and tapping actually does. I'd stake money on the fact that the most popular explanation (discounting "I don't know") will be variations of "it unlocks the door." And hence, we will have demonstrated that the children have a much deeper understanding of how the human world works than the apes do.
Lord Sandwich very good points
I agree. Alternatively they could have told the children this is an identical box to the black one. Get the treat out however you think would be easiest. Without further explanation.
Otherwise you can't expect children who are taught to follow specific rules to do things differently while an adult is watching them.
No, I think it's just a game for the kid. The ape probably doesn't see the human as an authority figure as the kid does. A kid might not think he's allowed to get the treat, while the ape is like whatever gets me the treat I'm allowed to do.
True
Dinnapy someone who understandnsome kss belive and magic as well
Yeah that monkey needs to learn you cheat and your penis snipped off but you keep yours balls so the monkey is driven mad in holiness unable to ever release
Such joy to see the monkey suffer
wrgg
Like another comment stated, I think it would've been nice to ask the kids to find an easier way to get the treat. they're just following instructions with an adult watching them, i wouldn't expect them to skip to the end. the chimps are very smart though nonetheless.
One other difference is the children won't rip off the tester's faces if they can't get the treats.
You ever dealt with kindergarten children?
Whew they little bastards
@@dennisbowen452 yep, just imagine if they had the same strength as an adult or even juvenile chimp. all those tantrums and hitting or biting incidents would quickly turn potentially lethal lol
„For the chimps it’s all about the treat“ same.
I think the kids did the silly routine because they don't want to offend the grown up and risk being shamed. i think maybe humans have a higher need to be socially accepted even if it means doing things that are silly and nonsensical.
If I was the kid, I would also do the unnecessary tapping, because I always allow the possibility that there is something that I don't understand. For the chimps, they don't understand that they don't understand.
What no, you are literally just following authority and in hindsight giving an excuse to why you made the choice. Literally every human is a social animal, its not like its a bad thing for a child to trust adults like their parents or teachers for the most part.
It's only a fair experiment if the adults didn't verbally communicate with kids but purely just demonstrate as they did with the chimps.
Language and tone are very suggestive. The children are very aware of the context they are in and they are being monitored in some fashion so they better behave or appease the adult. Those chimps were probably already subject to some variation of sweet treat experiments/training so they expect the same with their context strongly fixed to the end goal - get the treat.
That is why most people are irrational followers.
For the Chimp it is all about the treat. For humans it is all about the process. Humans do what they know will work and learn the processes first then try changing it later. They do not take a chance on the out come being different if they change the process. I saw a test where they used rakes to get a treat. At first they did about the same about 50/50 but when the human child was shown to flip the rake over they would get the treat 100% of the time because they wee focused on the process, where when the chimp was shown it still was 50/50 because they were focused on the treat.
Actually kids are smarter. They know it worked before. There is no reason to risk anything. Specially if they have an adult's point of reference.
Humans are, first and foremost, social learners. We teach each other things, but learning can only happen in an environment of trust. This is why children who are abused by those who are supposed to protect and care for them have poorer school performance and lower IQ's, lower educational attainment, and lower socioeconomic status in adulthood.
I've gone over this repeatedly in my mind...trying to grasp the underlying WTF response. Does this suggest that humans are innately stupid?
Not necessarily...I do think there is a valid argument to the claim that humans are clever but not very bright...but this study suggests something else. After hours of wrenching my mind open wide enough to see past my personal bias, I put it in perspective of all our other 'failings' at birth...our inability to walk or swim at birth, for example.
It dawned on me that this study reflects just how undeveloped our brains are at birth...relative to the thought that we are essentially born significantly pre-mature in order to fit our brains through the birth canal. Not only must we learn physical abilities that most other mammals are born with...but we must learn and develop critical thinking skills as well. Obviously, this is how superstitions arise...and may explain why, in the 21st century, we still believe in magic (weight loss, penis enlargement, lotteries, etc.).
Underrated comment
well said
This study shows how easily we can be manipulated.
Humans tend not to cut corners. Here comes the division of labour/knowledge/expertise that is the backbone of human civilisation. Every human achievement is the fruit of collective effort and everybody is an expert in his/her own field. No man can possess all the knowledge needed to build a skyscraper, airliner, or even an electric kettle: it must be a collective effort of complimentary talents. Chimps are not capable of that and have to be smart every time and rely on their own individual reasoning, while humans are better off because they are able to ignore their own 'common sense' and blindly 'ape' the specialist(s) while doing only the bits they are proficient at. That is why we have civilisation and chimps don't.
How tf did I get here
The human brain doesn't fully mature until around 25 years of age.
Wrong an 8 year old would have done the test differently.
Who's been listening to Sean Carroll.
Perhaps because humans are taught to be superstitious and follow silly conventions by other human beings.
Apes don't have silly things like rituals, superstition, religion. This sort of behavior is just children following rituals
You call humans silly, but it's their silliness that made them the apex predator of the planet and moved them into space while monkeys still claw out bugs from dirt to eat them.
Well human children are arguably dumber than most animal adults.
paxpacis2 So because humans, as a race, have been the most successful animal on earth(known to us), we can't have bad traits?
correct ,. they prefer copying over thinking for them self , this is a major flaw in humanity especialy in the age AI.
A genetic predisposition for ritual and religion was programmed into our DNA by the extraterrestrial Annunaki that genetically engineered us from indigenous earth primates so we would be easier to control reverencing the Annunaki as Gods and Goddesses.
We still sacrifice our labor and wealth to these long gone alien overlords as we did millennia ago when we were their slave labor and still ask them to "give us our daily bread" as though we didn't realize we're on our own.
Some humans, through government and religion, have learned to make a tidy living off of this human weakness.
But wait, do you have to poke the stick into the box??? what does stabbing the core of the box inside do lol? Looks like it worked. Wow that was amazing, they both imitated and knew what to do and even used its finger.
You know, the kids are more brainwashed, they think its some game and are doing imitation, but the monkey is starving, older I bet, and is just using its dying courage to get that damn food out already. The kids are not, they have it too easy, just look at them all dressed and clean, the monkey is a POW DO YOU REALIZE THAT!? It's a Prisoner Of War (POW). It imitated, is that not GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU?
More and diverse data, better body to manipulate tools/etc, and more compute lead to intelligence, that's it. You learn this the more you work on it. But you gotta feel like a POW to get where I got. I'm ruthless. Huh!!!!!! You gotta stop imitating and twist up what you learnt more.
Interesting
monke do better
Hahaha... What a butthurt storm in the comment section from humans convinced of their superiority.
201924061
Basnet boby