7:44 you talk about mind because these behaviors are emerging properties of brain interactions 7:52 across many parts of the brain and purely experimental methods can't fully explain 7:59 emergent properties they can't measure them fully and that's why we need models to bridge the gap 8:07 and to derive these models i developed the modeling method and cycle because you can't 8:13 explain the brain in one step and so because brain evolution needs to achieve behavioral success 8:23 the modeling method always starts with scores or even hundreds of psychological 8:30 experiments because these are the experiments that define behavior and its success so analyzing a few 8:39 experiments doesn't give you enough constraints you have to choose whole databases and part 8:45 of the art of modeling is to know what constitutes such a database because no one tells you 8:53 this belongs with this belongs with that so my method shows how by thinking about hundreds 9:04 of such experiments as emerging from an individual mind operating in real time in the world 9:13 there's a speculative leap in the words of einstein which leads me to realize that they're 9:21 all reflecting a certain design principle and then i convert the design principles into the 9:30 minimal model that can embody it and i use that model to explain lots more psychological data 9:41 than i used to derive the model so the first thing is to show how 9:54 you can think in real time which is the art here if you can't think in real time you're doomed 10:02 to get design principles converted into mechanisms and the delightful surprise 10:08 to me because i did this when i was a boy is the models explain and predict lots of 10:15 data about the brain and that's why they're biological neural networks i never tried 10:23 to explain brain data um in particular i didn't even know they were brain data until 10:32 you know i'm a freshman in college i talked to pre-med friends who tell me about neurons cell 10:40 bodies axons synapses post-synaptic clefts transmitters all these things were already 10:47 in my model from a psychological derivation well that was terribly exciting to a 17 year old kid 10:55 and i realized by thinking in real time about big enough psychological databases i could penetrate 11:04 into the brain
Thanks for this podcast. I don’t think anyone admires Grossberg more than I do. I’ve been aware of him for close to 40 years… so in some sense near the beginning. I think he’s right about almost everything he says, and by right I mean explaining what and why and how of brain/mind processing. But where are the tool kits! the Grossbergian “Lego sets” to build models? Gerald Edelman‘s group at least built multiple iterations of his Darwin robot ……back propagation for all its hideous flaws and permanent crippling disabilities, actually does stuff … ... to that point: is there any toolkit or way to *implement* Grossberg’s absolutely brilliant Ideas for the open source/hobbyist/experimenter?
Prof. Grossberg is just a small step away from understanding consciousness!! His equations are simply at the junctions of a flow chart. The barriers to the flow causes mental health issues. It is the flow of energy, like the flow of water for a river and spills over onto its sandy banks. that determines consciousness. Depending on the amount of water and speed of water creates the specific pattern in the sand from countless of other possible patterns. So does Prof. Grossberg's equations. He should take the next step towards a more comprehensive understanding of consciousness! Pattern recognition and matching is simply wave patterns matching within a larger wave pattern (Dalmatian dog within the larger picture of black dots).
I suggest listening to Sean Carroll's questioning technique on his Mindscape podcasts. Most interviewers take years to become really proficient -- desire to learn is the key.
You never heard of ART because it is dynamical and the mind is an active process. Deep learning is not! the whole industry IS headed in the wrong direction if it wants better general AI .. but one day your deep learning will show you this for U 😂
Well gone on them tell me where the hell is the mind. There's no way to prove this so called dualist position. As if we are a soul which I assume you believe in by default. It's the typical naive folk approach. You can't prove what you say. Mind and matter are the same thing, or process.. but if am wrong then perhaps we can meet up in the afterlife and communicate telepathically 😅😅
We humans are so pathetic are thinking, believing that we are so f$#%+ speical. Well we are certainly NOT the center of attention, we are part of this universal laws in motion. Given no manual on how we should act or behavour in this world. The right way scared or other godly mannerisms.. it's all guess work with a added bonus of personal experience that's just adds more layers of confusion of out self professed delusion.
@@restorationofidentity I'm not contesting that 'mind' and 'matter' are not the same thing. I just said that 'mind' is not parked up in the brain. The 'seat' of the mind is not in the brain.
@@filsdejeannoir1776 I agree with you the neocortex helps to facilitate higher conscious awareness. But my bet is the nervous system, brain stem that creates what we call Consciouness. Simlier to panpsychism. Consciouness comes from matter, Is matter! Am sure in time science will answer these questions. Most likey won't be for years to come. My anger comes from the religous folks who insist that we are a soul. Divine order. Bible, Quran even eastern religions. It's all philosophy with no proof. Insightful writing non the less. Apologies for beening out spoken with you it's just my filter was down 😄
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Great podcast. Thank you Dr. Yozevitch. You did a tremendous job interviewing Professor Grossberg
The most influential scientist of contemporary world. Top guy
Grossberg hasn't yet received any significant recognition despite working in the field for 6 decades.
Boastful professor.
Interesting conversation and a great podcast. Thanks
Thanks. Very Intriguing.
7:44
you talk about mind because these behaviors are emerging properties of brain interactions
7:52
across many parts of the brain and purely experimental methods can't fully explain
7:59
emergent properties they can't measure them fully and that's why we need models to bridge the gap
8:07
and to derive these models i developed the modeling method and cycle because you can't
8:13
explain the brain in one step and so because brain evolution needs to achieve behavioral success
8:23
the modeling method always starts with scores or even hundreds of psychological
8:30
experiments because these are the experiments that define behavior and its success so analyzing a few
8:39
experiments doesn't give you enough constraints you have to choose whole databases and part
8:45
of the art of modeling is to know what constitutes such a database because no one tells you
8:53
this belongs with this belongs with that so my method shows how by thinking about hundreds
9:04
of such experiments as emerging from an individual mind operating in real time in the world
9:13
there's a speculative leap in the words of einstein which leads me to realize that they're
9:21
all reflecting a certain design principle and then i convert the design principles into the
9:30
minimal model that can embody it and i use that model to explain lots more psychological data
9:41
than i used to derive the model so the first thing is to show how
9:54
you can think in real time which is the art here if you can't think in real time you're doomed
10:02
to get design principles converted into mechanisms and the delightful surprise
10:08
to me because i did this when i was a boy is the models explain and predict lots of
10:15
data about the brain and that's why they're biological neural networks i never tried
10:23
to explain brain data um in particular i didn't even know they were brain data until
10:32
you know i'm a freshman in college i talked to pre-med friends who tell me about neurons cell
10:40
bodies axons synapses post-synaptic clefts transmitters all these things were already
10:47
in my model from a psychological derivation well that was terribly exciting to a 17 year old kid
10:55
and i realized by thinking in real time about big enough psychological databases i could penetrate
11:04
into the brain
Thanks for this podcast.
I don’t think anyone admires Grossberg more than I do. I’ve been aware of him for close to 40 years… so in some sense near the beginning.
I think he’s right about almost everything he says, and by right I mean explaining what and why and how of brain/mind processing.
But where are the tool kits! the Grossbergian “Lego sets” to build models?
Gerald Edelman‘s group at least built multiple iterations of his Darwin robot ……back propagation for all its hideous flaws and permanent crippling disabilities, actually does stuff …
... to that point: is there any toolkit or way to *implement* Grossberg’s absolutely brilliant Ideas for the open source/hobbyist/experimenter?
Fantastic discussion thank you!
מרתק!
Prof. Grossberg is just a small step away from understanding consciousness!! His equations are simply at the junctions of a flow chart. The barriers to the flow causes mental health issues. It is the flow of energy, like the flow of water for a river and spills over onto its sandy banks. that determines consciousness. Depending on the amount of water and speed of water creates the specific pattern in the sand from countless of other possible patterns. So does Prof. Grossberg's equations. He should take the next step towards a more comprehensive understanding of consciousness! Pattern recognition and matching is simply wave patterns matching within a larger wave pattern (Dalmatian dog within the larger picture of black dots).
The host needs to be quiet, he just keeps on interrupting the flow of the professor
I suggest listening to Sean Carroll's questioning technique on his Mindscape podcasts. Most interviewers take years to become really proficient -- desire to learn is the key.
You never heard of ART because it is dynamical and the mind is an active process. Deep learning is not! the whole industry IS headed in the wrong direction if it wants better general AI .. but one day your deep learning will show you this for U 😂
Tosh!
0:00 How the brain makes the mind?? Crazy! The mind is not in the brain!
Well gone on them tell me where the hell is the mind. There's no way to prove this so called dualist position. As if we are a soul which I assume you believe in by default. It's the typical naive folk approach. You can't prove what you say. Mind and matter are the same thing, or process.. but if am wrong then perhaps we can meet up in the afterlife and communicate telepathically 😅😅
We humans are so pathetic are thinking, believing that we are so f$#%+ speical. Well we are certainly NOT the center of attention, we are part of this universal laws in motion. Given no manual on how we should act or behavour in this world. The right way scared or other godly mannerisms.. it's all guess work with a added bonus of personal experience that's just adds more layers of confusion of out self professed delusion.
@@restorationofidentity I'm not contesting that 'mind' and 'matter' are not the same thing. I just said that 'mind' is not parked up in the brain. The 'seat' of the mind is not in the brain.
@@filsdejeannoir1776 I agree with you the neocortex helps to facilitate higher conscious awareness. But my bet is the nervous system, brain stem that creates what we call Consciouness. Simlier to panpsychism. Consciouness comes from matter, Is matter! Am sure in time science will answer these questions. Most likey won't be for years to come. My anger comes from the religous folks who insist that we are a soul. Divine order. Bible, Quran even eastern religions. It's all philosophy with no proof. Insightful writing non the less. Apologies for beening out spoken with you it's just my filter was down 😄
@@restorationofidentity I can't understand what you mean by; consciousness 'comes from' matter.