Center Keyed Box Joints - Joint of the Week
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Get the Katz-Moses Magnetic Dovetail Jig here: lddy.no/stiz
This weeks woodworking joint is Center Keyed Box Joints. It’s an artistic take on a utilitarian joint used in furniture and box making. It just as easy as making a box joint with one extra step. Let me know in the comments what joint you’d like to see next week. Thanks for watching! Please like, comment and subscribe. Cheers!
Incra I-Box Jig: amzn.to/2zWvIr5
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Fyi I highly suggest making your own box joint jig before buying the one I have. I use it maybe once a year and have always regretted spending that much money on a tool I use so rarely. I linked a video by David Piccuito on how to make a simple box joint and they really are super easy to make. That's my 2 cents. Take it or leave it. If you want to check it out on Amazon here is the link: amzn.to/2zWvIr5
Thanks.
Thanks for the link and thanks for all of your great videos.
My pleasure bud! Cheers!
Cheers!
The Ibox is super nice though right? It works well and is made well too? If I wanted to be able to fine tune the finger/box sizes for odd thickness of stock or box size it would also be a halfway decent investment? I see it on sale at WoodCraft and always have to bite a finger to stop myself from buying it.
Slick,and quite a bit easier than dovetails
Jonathan,
The centered keyed box joint is fantastic!!! I’m new to making box joints and this morning I tried the centered keyed version. I love it and it opens up all kinds of possibilities!
Many thanks!!
"dovetails are stronger" well you haven't seen my hand cut dovetails😂
Hahahaha
GREAT looking build... As to the dovetail vs box joint debate, Matthias Wandel proved you wrong long ago with a pretty scientific comparison, but it's OK, you don't have to eat your shirt for us! LOL! Both are ridiculously strong.
I remembered that this morning but I'm going to stick to my guns until the comment section gets really heated hahahaha
Double thick finger +caw kerf=well executed box.
Thank you my friend!
I agree that this looks better than straight box joints. The artistry is in what isn't there.
Wow that was deep. Sorry.
Hi: thank you for removing the front guard so that we could witness what's going on with number of holes and spacing. I just purchased one of those igage jigs myself. Watching their video without seeing that I couldn't fully grasp what was going on!
That is a great technique to index the joint from both sides!
I would offer that you could cut the entire thing at the jig, by flipping which piece gets the larger finger. If he had run the darker board indexed one more slot over, from each side it would cut (2) overlapping slots that would match the larger pin centered on the white board.
I've been watching your videos for a couple of months now and this is my favorite joint so far.
Love the large key in the middle I am going to try it and throw a wafer in the large key for extra bond
Have to say thats a cool looking joint, it definately makes the timber pop when you use contrasting wood 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks G-Money!
I already like the look of box joints, but this looks amazing! Thanks for showing the technique!
My pleasure bud! Cheers!
Very Good Video, Thanks. Very informative that the center spline does not have to be at the center of the board. I tried it on other jigs, and the same technique works just fine, although indexing the second board is done top to top and bottom to bottom. It can also be done off center, to allow for a lid to the box to be made inside the oversize key.
On the other hand, I also spent a bunch of money on the Incra jig, and have used it a lot where it did pay off for me! Especially on the four large boxes that were 18" tall with half-inch pins. The jig made it very easy for someone who never had done box jigs before! Great video, by the way!
Makes total sense! Thanks bud!
They do look way cooler!
I have to say that looks amazing and I will definitely be using it
Awesome bud!
Great video bud! I just learned something new!
I happen to think box joints look cool. This is a really interesting mod of the typical application, kindof like variable-spaced dovetails. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks Seth! They do look cool
Looks great! Would love to see a box joint video on a box other than a four-sided box --- maybe a triangle or pentagon.
To Endurogent, timber 101, and others who asked, while you could theoretically join a "regular" multi-sided box (3 or 5 or more sides) with box joints using an IBOX, there is a whole host of issues with the angle at the bottom of each slot and the angle of the ends of the boards. The bottom of each slot and ends of the boards can't be perpendicular to the surface of the stock. It is easy to see the effect if you cut a normal box joint in two boards and assemble them at less than or greater than 90°. Just on a whim, I experimented with regular boxes of 3 or 5 or greater sides with an early IBOX. I was able to do it but had to use a slanted fixture that leaned out at a specific angle (unique to the number of sides) from vertical (angle = (n-2)*180/2n), pre-bevel the ends of the stock so it could register properly on the pin plates, and make a deeper cuts to avoid gaps on the inside or outside of the box. Holding or clamping the stock was problematic as well. For the complexity, and anticipated demand, it just wasn't worth it to incorporate that functionality into the jig.
Man you guys make it look so easy. I tried to make a jig and no luck. Was so ugly.... cried a little laughed alot.
Hahahaha
Great video, as usual. I love your joint of the week videos. You make it easy and inspire us all. Thanks.
Love to see a backrolled joint! Great video!!
Thanks my friend!
@@katzmosestools I don't really wanna see that..it was just a joke..but I enjoy your videos!
Too late. Already made 5
Well shoot, thanks! Do you offer free shipping??
Great looking joint there. I don't even do flat work and I enjoy your joint videos.
Thanks bud! I really appreciate it!
Sooo I am a 43 year old Newborn baby woodworker. Please forgive me if this question is a duhhh moment for me, or if it is redundant in this thread. Can you apply this awesomeness in the same format to a miniature bench top box joint jig for a router?? I mean I’m going to try it out regardless of a confirmation but, I would love to get the head nod from “my Yoda” of all things wood. I did try and read through this thread but, Holy popularity Batman!!! A mountain of well deserved bromances in this thread! You’re awesome, I totally get the dude doe eyes 👀 Thanks so much for your time and for being born and stuff!
You can use any properly operating and adjusted box joint jig to make a center-keyed box joint. Check out INCRA's IBOX How-to video.
Still looks fancy! Cool simple build
Thanks bud!
I’d like to see a mix of the center key and dove tail making the center key the dove tail or a dove tail on either end and the center all box joints
Just found your channel, good stuff. What I found doing this that makes a cool look is glue up a panel (one you plan to cut out) with a middle piece of contrasting colors just slightly larger than what you plan to cut out. It leaves a look like a small wrap around the edge. The first time I did it I had the maple middle piece and ended up with what looked like a 1/8th maple wrapped around the edge of an all walnut piece. I might not have explained that well.... but if your cut out area measures 2 inches, try it with a panel with the middle piece 2 1/4 or 2/ 1/2 inches wide. The middle piece in the board to be cut away needs to be centered in the glue up.
I just bought a dado stack and can't wait to make this
LOVE the suggestion...Love the Incra as well! Good Vid, thanks
Thanks Tom!
Thank you for sharing this technique. I will have to try it.
badass
If you place the larger box where you cut the lid off the box it'd work out very well too.
Nice variation on a boring old box joint!
Thanks JB!
Dude that's so cool!
Great video! I've got a small box commission piece that I think I'm going to try this out on! Thanks for the inspiration!
My pleasure bud! I can't wait to see what you create!
Super cool joint! Your video style is really coming into its own! It looks like you have some help. Damn I'd love a second set of hands in the shop when filming.
It's pretty awesome and thank you sir.
Cool idea.
Thanks bud!
FYI - According to Issue #181 (Dec 2007/Jan 2008) of Wood Magazine a 1/2” box joint was the strongest joint in pull apart strength at 2019 pounds and a lock miter joint was the strongest in sheer strength at 141 pounds in their Wood Joint Torture Test II. LINK to video: ruclips.net/video/8INk_g8ZpTA/видео.html
I'll eat my shirt hahaha
I'll show you "joint of the week"
Have you done a box joint with resin? I am planning a project where the sides will have a strip of resin in the middle. Just wondering how that would work. Note: never done a box joint.
What type of joinery would you recommend to attach sides of a 47" chest to a bottom. i was originally thinking pocket holes, but sometimes it's required to lay and move around on it and I dont think pocket holes are strong enough for that. Then I got to thinking about these box joints--but man cutting all those slots across 47" leaves a lot of room for error! I'm new to box joints and even dove tails. I was also considering whether it's possible to do a few fingers at the ends and in the middle--same with dove tails? Please share your thoughts.
Wouldn't it be easier to just use the table saw to cut out the "key" opening?
thank you Katz so a beer joint ? for next joint . sorry i am a tad mischievous . besides whats an old geezer to do lol
Could you show someone like myself, that wouldn't build box joints often, how to retro fit a table saw sled into a box joints jig? Thanks a lot, keep it up
Check out the cards in the video. I linked a video by David Piccuito that shows you how to make one
A bit of a late addition to the comments, but I am curious, if I am supposed to use a backer board to make the cuts nicer and cleaner, does it have to be of a similar density? ie: if I am to use maple for my box sides, should I have a backer board of a similar hardness? Or, since it is a sacrificial piece could I use whatever scrap I have around the shop? If anyone else sees this and has an answer I would love to know.
Is there an "easy" way to do box or finger joints on a 4x4??
I don't think they are stronger......I just want to see you eat your shirt......... :) Jonathan thanks for all you have taught me
Yet another great joint video! How would you go about calculating how to put multiple of the larger keys in? For example if you were going to be making a blanket chest
If you figure it out let me know hahaha
That came out awesome. Love it :) #wheelzwoodworking
I like the way this turned out and I've never seen that box joint jig before, was that from Incra? Pretty cool. I have a couple ideas for the next joint. The router setup for a locking miter joint (to add to the box/drawer theme) or a hidden wedged tenon joint.
Yea it's the incra. Great ideas!
could you also do this with dove-tails? thank you for the videos,,have a blessed and safe day
Of course.
Nice one! It’s an elegant fix to the problem of the oddly spaced key. I’ve been looking for a way to make the Rob Cosman style boxes with larger keys.
Anyway, why aren’t box joints stronger then dovetails (though certainly not as pretty)?
The "truth" is that it's debatable... There's at least a couple "scientifically made" videos on YT about the proof of a boxed joint actually being stronger than a dovetail "with all things else being equal"...
The angular fit of dovetail joints utilizes the wood's own inherent structure as part of the joint-strength, rather than depending entirely on friction and glue... BUT with roughly equivalent surface area, and taking into account that the glue -bond is generally stronger than most wood-fiber structures... then you can get argument that "it depends" on the shear amount of surface areas available to gluing.
AND I'd personally caution against blithely accepting someone's "video proof" of joint-strength, considering that just the fit of one boxed joint to another "dry" can be considerably different, presenting stresses and friction beyond tolerance in the wood, itself...
Similarly, craftsmanship for the dovetail is Paramount, for any reasonable structural advancement in the joint, and it's VERY VERY easy to over-indulge in pressures on the wood when assembling the joint "tightly".
For an easily reliable, strong joint... then perhaps the "cheaper and simpler" choice is the boxed joint. All 90's, and easily matched by even a mediocre craftsman.
For the advancement in STABILITY, where the assembled joint won't move "out of square" whether using glue or not at the time... the Dovetail will hold the optimal choice, but crafting it requires higher precision than the boxed joint, for no more than stability overall...
Otherwise, personally, I opt for the visual appeal as much as the structure or strength of the joint. With modern adhesive technology, the actual advantage of any one joint over another is pretty nominal... Yet, the demonstration of skills and aesthetics are going to sell where those kinds of details are appreciated.
In short, then... I usually box-joint a piece when it's supposed to be quick and dirty and I know I'm not getting much for the work involved... AND I dovetail the "high-end" piece because that's what the customer will appreciate seeing when he opens a drawer or lifts a lid. ;o)
I love your videos . I just finished level 1 of a cabinet maker apprenticeship .
my sister is getting married and would love to make her a receipt box . do you have any plans for a nice receipt box project?
I don't bud. Cheers and thank you.
Can this be done on a five or six side box, or would that get overly complicated, although it would make a very interesting video.
I was just thinking about buying this jig and thought that there has to be a way to make patterns, or a more uniform looking joint. Great video btw.
Anything is possible
Can you offset it to one side? I’m thinking that the large key is where you cut 5he box in half, but I’d want it near the top.
Didn't Bourbon Moth prove box joints were stronger........?
#katztheboss
Thumzup 281!
Thankz!
The difficulty of getting the joints to fit a board width perfectly symmetrical is heartbreaking. William Ng makes it look easy. I’m no William Ng. However, I’ve lear that with patience I can get a perfect and perfectly equal and symmetrical joint.
what do think of using the straight part of your dovetail jig and doing this with a dovetail saw?
Would work
@@katzmosestools thanks
Make the center joint a dovetail
Great idea!
@@katzmosestools A center keyed dovetail joint is incredibly easy with a Leigh dovetail jig!
Instead of a coping saw, I would have done a few passes on the table saw.
Lots of ways to do it for sure
Is that jig for sale? Is it a kit.Do you have a video on how to make that jig?
Yes sir. Linked in description and pinned comment
👍🏻
You came up with this? I thought it was an Incra procedure.
You are absolutely correct. Perry McDaniel at INCRA came up with the joint which he initially (correctly) called the symmetrical box joint. I'm the one who came up with the term, "Center-Keyed" box joint which is what we decided to go with. Oh, and I also came up with the "splined box joint." FYI, my screen name is no coincidence.
Nice! What is the table saw jig you are using?
Rock K. Incra i box
Found it! Who would you purchase it from Johnathan?
@@rwkayser Amazon probably
How easy would that be without using a dado stack? They aren't easy to get in the UK.
David Picciuto from Make Something just released a video on how to make a box joint jig with just a single blade. Maybe you could stack a couple 10 inch blades? Or order a dado stack from the US Amazon using a VPN.
This jig works on the router table as well
@@masiolli Thanks, Yes it does! The beauty of the IBOX is that it is infinitely adjustable- you don't need to make multiple jigs for each size and don't need to mess with dado shims (some dado blades like Forest's Dado King are made slightly smaller than the nominal sizes, so shims are essential) it relies on direct transfer of kerf size and, as you pointed out, it can also be used on a router table with miter slot.
Here's a challenge for you...... How about a compound angle box-joint...? e.g. a serving tray with a 15 degree compound angle on the sides.
I love it!
My initial thought is that it can't be done on an IBOX. Since the fingers must be parallel to the ground plane, one end of the stock would need to angle out from the fence, and therefore could not be indexed by the pin plates. Simple solution, make a standard box using the IBOX, but use stock that is as thick as the horizontal distance from the bottom of a side to the top of the side. Cut the dado for the tray bottom at this time also. Then re-saw each side at the desired splay angle on a tablesaw or bandsaw- depends on final height of the box (actually the diagonal length of the side and capacity of machine used.
How about a scarph joint? I always cut my boards too short and have to stretch them...
I did it already. Check out the joint of the week playlist