4X4 Snorkels: Ultimate Buyer's Guide (you probably don't need one) | Auto Expert John Cadogan
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- Опубликовано: 18 окт 2024
- Once you’ve got a useless bullbar, nothing says bush-bashing bogan quite as loud as fitting a snorkel to one’s 4X4, the better to enhance its capabilities for those extreme trips to the shops, or dropping the brats off at school. #’Straya! Snorkels are a joke, 99.9 per cent of the time. Here’s why.
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The only epistemologically objective justification I can see for fitting a snorkel is: you want to drive through rooly, rooly deep water without destroying the engine. Meaning water deeper than the official wading depth of the vehicle. It’s in the handbook, dude.
The aftermarket industry - so keen to tell you it won’t affect the warranty. But I’d suggest if you fit a snorkel, drive into deep water and hydro-lock your engine … forget all about a warranty claim from the carmaker.
They’ll simply say: Kindly refer to page 453 - wading depth. You exceeded it, dude. That’ll be $22,000 including fitting and GST. Will that be cash, or defibrillator?
You might be able to come after the aftermarket dudes - but you’d have to prove the product was defective, or the installation was. Good luck with that. Ultimately it could prove to be a pretty expensive creek crossing.
The one advantage of having the dealer fit a genuine snorkel is that, for consumer law purposes, you’ll be coming after the dealer for warranty and/or consumer law issues. You won’t have two competing parties, each trying desperately to brush you off onto the other.
As fr the claims about cooler air, or less dusty air, or additional performance from the so-called ram-air effect, in my view they're either insignificant, or outright rubbish.
I get it if you want a fashion accessory (that's what most snorkels are) but let's not be convincing ourselves these other effects are worthwhile.
I have a Hilux and I've just bought a Safari snorkel to fit this weekend. On the box it says "Made in Australia" and I couldn't help but hear your voice, John, saying "Made in 'STRAYA... YEEESSSSS"
I have one on my Prado and glad that I have it. Not only it makes it look like a real outback touring beast that can mount anything, but I've turned the head around backwards to make it seem I know something that others don't. YEAHEESSSSS
GET IN THERE AND MOUNT BIG RED! #STRAYA
Best question I’ve had the pleasure of responding to was regarding : Should I fit a snorkel if I’m going on the beach on Fraser Island? Typical comments poured in with the general consensus being ‘you would be mad not to, wouldn’t go there without a snorkel, must be stainless steel, standard equipment on the beach’ etc. etc. my timid reply was ‘ if you need a snorkel on the beach, a tide chart may have been a better investment’. Well, some people are very sensitive, to say the least.
Great report John, I like the fact your setting the record straight on a few 4wd myths I hope you continue the 4wd theme. In closing I must admit to having a sneaky peak at the odd snorkel when I’m at the local car park.
Shhhhh! My ARB shares are gonna tank if you keep this up, John!
Hi John - completely agree re snorkels for water use. Most people don't do deep water crossings and they're to be avoided if you can help it because of all the associated hassles of water and mud getting into areas you don't want them. However, snorkels are valuable in terms of the dust issue which is why I have mine. I got sick of the standard intake above LHS front wheel feeding dust into the airbox and constantly clogging airfilter. A snorkel stops this from happening and has the added benefit of making it very easy to fit an oiled foam cover to the snorkel head as a pre-filter when travelling on dusty roads where other vehicles are making for a generally dusty environment. On the bullbar issue, they're worth it if they protect your radiator just once in a remote area...
Its not just snorkels, there are many other aftermarket accessories that I'd often see on offroad cars that a manufacturer would never approve of. Some are even sold thru official dealers! which proves how badly the brands manage their dealerships. Absolutely non-compliant!!! Thanks to John, Australia is awakening.
John, we drove from Cairns to Broome on the dirt in our Hi-lux.
When we arrived it was covered in red bulldust
I decided it was a good idea to change the air filter
Took off the cover to find a pristine white filter! WTF?
Obviously Toyota have done a great job of locating the air intake.
Who needs a snorkel.
I agree it is all bullshit.
I have even met people who think that the snorkel supplies the air to the cabin?
As Charlie Brown said "Good Greif!"
Totally agree with you.
Keep up the good work.
Phil
I can’t wait to see the first Tesla pickup with a snorkel.
I don't do lol, but that is worth a lol 🇬🇧
Teslas are designed to be driven into the ocean, ex-factory. No mods required. Drive them in, swim to shore - free man!
@@AutoExpertJC Lithium and salt water, is that BOOM?
Bet they gonna love hole sawing thru stainless steel.
@@andrewfrancis3591 nah that's Jesus
Also add the cost of all the computers that are likely to get drowned if you go above wading depth. They won’t die instantly but gradually when they go green and crusty. Chasing one electrical fault after another for however long you keep the vehicle.
I've had snorkels on each 4wd I've owned and the previous 3 have each unfortunately met deep water. Saved my bacon when a creek that was ankle deep on the way in was neck high coming out. Picturesque fountain from gearstick, swam out window, hooked up hand winch (try that with vehicle mounted one), winched out stuck tourist bus too, towed another 4wd, then back home had all oils and fluids changed, removed and dried seats. The a/c amplifier behind glove box died so bypassed it, the radio and tacho which didn't work prior to immersion then worked. Relays buggered. All up a couple of $grand. My passenger paid half so I married her. We haven't been flooded with current Hilux but it has computers in bottom of footwell and I doubt I could bypass them to get going. Also the current Toyota genuine snorkel is supposed to be reversed in heavy rain, has drain holes below the head and doesn't look watertight underbonnet. Who gets out in heavy rain with screwdriver to reverse snorkel? The drain holes lower the effective height. So this Hilux probably wont get us out of bother where our 1980 one did. Ironically, when you buy a 2nd hand Toorak tractor you are likely to get a snorkel- and no stone chips or dings under car! So I agree snorkels (and 4wds) are stupid for most city folk, but where crocodiles inhabit fords it's nice to be able to drive through without wading to find best path.
Yeah gotta get one of those old school fully mechanical diesels for creek fun. Worst case scenario you lose your headlights.
Hey, I have a snorkel fitted for those river crossings that may be deeper the expected, cheap insurance i reckon. I am careful not exceed wading depths but shit can happen. I once saw a Ranger drive through a large puddle and get written off due to water damage, he wished he had a snorkel.
agreed . if your heading up the cape on a trip I wouldnt go without one
I wouldn’t risk over my door sills by choice. But agree a snorkel for less than $1k is a worthwhile investment for the off chance alone
Agreed. I have driven into a fairly harmless looking puddle that got very deep on the drivers side and was left on the side of the track 2 hours from cell reception with a soaking wet air filter. Went and bought a safari snorkel the next week.
@@insaneomcleano So True ... Johns a knowledgable guy , but I suspect his experience off road consists of a Latte in Hyde Park
cheap insurance is not driving into those places where a snorkel would be needed
Never took much notice of snorkels in the big W carpark - even higher concentration at Bunnings- until I stumbled across your channel. I ran the numbers across the Ram Jet Effect i see the manufacturers pushing. Assuming the engine management can take advantage of more air, ( don't diesels use a throttle valve ?) then the dynamic pressure of bringing a 25m/sec airstream to a stop is 1/2 rho v squared = 0.5 * 1.225 * 625 = 382 pascals. Now a receding cylinder wants to pull a full vacuum so the pressure drop gain along the pipework as a percentage of 1 atmosphere (101,00 pascal ) is 0.38%. Pressure drop is proportional to the square of airflow so that's an increase in airflow of ~ 0.19%. But I reckon the big pipe alongside the A pillar increases frontal area by at least 1% so that's not a win. Now because a ram jet oriented inlet picks up rain it needs vent holes. If the vent is right down low - well that defeats the purpose on all counts. If they are up high and spaced evenly around the circular cross section perimeter then the low pressure here will bleed off most of the ram-jetted high pressure anyway.
Lived on a gravel road for 7 years. The air filter on my Hilux would be full of all sorts of crud in a month with the stock intake. With a snorkel fitted it would take 6 months for the same build up
Yup new car didn't have one, bad idea.
Did your snorkel have a forward facing intake?
Good point. All the semi's have the air intake at least 3 meters high. Some of them even 4. And they also have one of those spiral filters to get rid of most heavy stuff.
You say my bullbar is useless, but I find it extremely handy for relocating my fence and touch parking in the garage
Bullbar Anti skippy device essential for night driving with a decent set of HID spot lights
Exactly 👍 @@garreysellars5525
This was a great one John, the big red joke at the end, so good. A lot of ppl who drive 4wds around also go for the odd trip to cape York though, and it’s safer to have a snorkel up there. You can’t really take it off when you get back can you 🤷🏻♂️. Anyway, with some of the new cars the depth is probably calculated for the first quadcore computer that will go for the dive, instead of the air intake...snorkel ain’t gonna help for that
John: Snorkles are a joke.
WWII German U-Boat Commander: Zo, you think our schnorkles are a joke, Mein Herr? Vait....zoon your island vill be starving!
Lol
Sadly, they were very effective at sinking Allied shipping. Only because we got good at building nearly disposable ships faster than Germany could sink them did we win the war.
@@BryanTorok The Allies also got better at finding and sinking them, With the advent of SONAR/ASDIC underwater, and RADAR to catch boats on the surface, the Germans starting losing a lot of boats. The capture of an Enigma coding machine also gave the Allies the ability to read ops orders and reports from boats. In addition the number of destroyers/frigates/anti-U-Boat patrol craft increased steadily once the US entered the war. Finally, aircraft with depth charges and cannons starting finding and attacking the boats on the surface and in shallow dives. Without the advances, the Germans would have won the U-Boat war.
@@markh.6687 All of those are very good points and contributing factors. Other factors include developing better tactics, convoys and zigzagging. Still, U-boats were very effective in that they sank many more ships then we sank U-boats. This is similar to Allied versus Axis losses in terms of infantry and tanks with the Allied's losses being roughly twice that of the Axis.
@@BryanTorok From snorkels on 4WD to WW2, talk about off topic.
Clear, comprehensive and humorous. Cheers from Spain.
I was interested in having some real numbers about this report so I went ahead and tested both with and without snorkel in a 2012 Land Cruiser 4.5 Turbo Diesel (white paint).
I have driven the vehicle to bring it to normal operating temperature and experimented the 2 conditions.
I have placed a thermocouple in the intake and disconnected the snorkel (also blanked to prevent airflow).
I then have plumbed the snorkel back.
I also have measured surface temperatures with a laser thermometer.
Ambient temperature was of 29° C. (Data from weather app)
Engine bay temperature at operating temperature of 65°C.
Direct sun surface temperatures:
Plastic Snorkel surface temperature 57°C.
White Panel surface temperature 58°C.
Results:
Air temperature WITHOUT SNORKEL 45°C
Air temperature WITH SNORKEL 33°C.
The accuracy of measurement is not the best given the amateurial equipment used but I think gives a ballpark figure.
I'd like to hear how I can improve the experiment and your thoughts on the results.
Paint it red to make go faster, white is for poverty pack models
Firstly, also measure the air temperature with an under bonnet front facing inlet.
Secondly measure the temperature for each setup both before and after the intercooler. ie after the turbo has compressed and heated the air and then after the intercooler has done its work, because at the end of all this THAT is where it counts. Also, you need to remember that the EMS might be managing the turboboost, so even if you are getting lots more cool air, in a modern turbo system it may not make any difference as long as you are getting enough in the first place.
@@Expedient_Mensch thanks for the input, I appreciate it! I hope to get around and try measure those extra T however seems that unless you know how is the ecu mapped it's hard to make conclusions...
The difference between 45 and 33, even if it is accurate, is not substantial. You're talking about 0.03kg/m3 of difference, I'd wager people gain more by losing the beer gut ;)
I always wondered about the snorkel. I mean if you go that deep your going to ruin your interior and probably get your trucks computers fried with water right? The only thing I can think is they stop water from being splashed up into the intake.
snorkel has improved fuel economy and improved acceleration and cruising speed on my 2013 Wrangler, no question.
So angry yet, so informative. Thank you 🙏
...from a dude whose surname is Spanky-Bottom
@@AutoExpertJC Bwahahahahah! GOLD !
@@AutoExpertJC Hanky-Panky Spanky-Bottom Kinky Fun Long Time!
@@AutoExpertJC
Spanked him John. Lmao
Agree 100%. I've fitted breathers as cheap insurance but no snorkel. Bit disappointed we didn't see a photo of "big red", the Tiffany variety.
Depending on where the factory intake is, I could actually see a snorkel significantly reducing intake air temps. Often times the air is sucked directly from the engine compartment, which can easily get 50+ degrees F hotter than ambient air temp under certain conditions such as when sitting in traffic. By sucking air from outside the engine compartment, you ensure that the intake air temp will be close to ambient temp at all times. Yes the tube may act like a heater when the sun is shining on it, but there are no perfect solutions and I bet the temp of the air at the end of the pipe is still significantly cooler than the temp of the air under the hood. However, even if adding a snorkel does lower temps, the restriction that the extra pipe adds may offset some of the performance benefits of lower temps.
I haven't owned a vehicle made in the last 20 years that sources its intake air from the engine bay.
Thanks, i just had my ute fitted with one, looks cool
That reminds me of the time I tried to manoeuvre my 4X4 through the wildlife park surrounded by elephants with snorkel envy.
Been a 4WD driver driving in remote Areas of Australia for over 40 yers as a surveyor / cartographer. Drive a few hundred metres through a bull-dust "puddle" and get back to me about how useful the snorkel was, or wasn't. Agree about wading depth restrictions, the old Army 110 Landrovers wading depth was 300mm without preparation (basically tying blinds across the front of the vehicle).
The snorkel for the ranger makes a great smoke 🚬 stack when they start on 🔥 📛 lol
Cutting
All so true, you definitely do need diff and gear box breathers, probably even before a snorkel as lots of puddles are deep enough to get into the diff. I have a snorkel on my 4wd, I definitely have needed it being a small 4wd she sees water over the bonnet often. Its mainly short deep puddles, but also the odd creek/river crossing. My old man's patrol probably didn't need its snorkel as for the 23 years we have owned it I dont think it ever saw anything much over hub deep.
Though snorkels are a great place to add pre-filters, either the cyclonic types or the foam and oil based socks. For those dusty environments.
Or just wait for stuff to cool down before crossing water
Well eyre creek about 20 dunes from big red was about 1 metre deep when i did the simpson desert crossing couple years ago. Good fun having a engine full of bent rods in the middle of no where. So theres that.
At least you "know where" I have no idea where.
In more than 3 years off roading, there was only one time i went through water deep enough to cause problems to a normal car. It was a little river, maybe 10 or 15 meters across, and perhaps some 500 mm deep (wading depth in my stock 4wd Nissan is 600 mm, i think). Not a problem whatsoever. I don´t think i would ever try something more extreme than that, and even that was a just an experiment. I think snorkels can give many people a false sense of security, since they rely so much on it not letting water go into the engine, that they forget all the other issues that can come from driving into deep water, just like you mentioned in the video.
I love off road and i love these off road videos. Keep them coming, John.
Will do - thanks mate. And try to stay out of deep water.
@@AutoExpertJC I will, thanks.
Great informative and entertaining vid John, as usual, ......which brings me to another point. I think you might have missed your true calling in life as a cynical stand-up comedian. I reckon you'd be a worthy replacement for George Carlin and could easily pick up where he left off. Your comedic timing and witty monologue really is hilarious and, I think, very very clever. You keep me laughing while you're imparting genuine no bullshit technical info. Congratulations, very clever to be able to do that.
As you said, if someone is fitting a snorkel diff breathers should be fitted as well.
- I’d like to add that in most cases a water proof alternator should be added too as water is expected to be over the bonnet high.
Before even watching the whole vid, I suggest maybey you should install diff breathers!!
Yep ..using plastic fuel filters ...lol
@@MrLunithy By all means use the plastic fuel filter right at the end of the extension tubes, high on the firewall or better still, inside the cab on the "B" pillar just under the roof...the fuel filter stops water/dust entering while still allowing air in/out...
@@JohnSmith-pl2bk 👍
As I’m probably the only one that can put up with the ranting and rambling...he mentioned it in the last minute or two....and three, four and five.
Love love love your style. You are excellent - knowledgeable and entertaining. Thanks!
Thanks John, brutally honest as always.
John bravo bravo finally someone saying there are aftermarket accessories that we don’t need , a nice change from being told oh “ you need this. You need that” absolutely rip off merchants the 4x4 accessories scene.
I really want to see an S class with a snorkel now
Hi John, well I do believe that you know your shizzle, and I agree with you re: Snorkels. I have a mantra when thinking of Marketing Speak - 'believe half of what they show you, and none of what they tell you'. I have heard all of what you have said, and my snorkel was fitted by me for water ingress only. Do I say that there is an element of aesthetics as well?, no, I won't go there. Happily I didn't pay Safari prices and ARB fitting, so I am not that unhappy about having it. You always do share words of wisdom, and highlight the dollar in hand with advertisers and "Journo's". Cheers.
5:25 to 5:45 "will that be cash or...defibrillator?" LOL
I’ll be putting a snorkel on my Discovery 1. The standard air box pulls air through a tube that connects from the back of the passenger side headlight. The tube has been removed and a second battery has been fitted, the space not between the inlet and the battery is about 1.5cm and it’s sucking hot as hell air from the turbo which is also on that side of the motor which completely heat soaks the intake system making it extremely sluggish to get going on hot days. It’s so slow I have to double clutch away from traffic lights. I believe (and I could be wrong) that fitting a snorkel will in fact increase airflow and help breath cooler air as it’s not hot engine bay/turbo heated air. Now had I still had the standard air box / headlight tube in place I don’t think a snorkel would have been a benefit to my situation.
Hey John, agree but I think colder air is referring to less heat soaked air from the engine bay. It's very situational but could lower the intake temperature if you're stationery, and thus solve a problem that doesn't exist.
It's supposedly about both the engine heat and hot air rising from hot bitumen roads. Not sure its actually that big a deal in the real world, more theory than practical use I suspect. But, as I said in another post, and despite most peoples belief, a snorkels primary purpose is to move the air intake from under the vehicle and up to the clean air at rooftop level. Think bull-dust covered outback roads and even just plain old dirt roads for hundreds of kilometres at a time. Things like like getting cooler air, deep water fording etc are of dubious value except for the hard-core 4WD drivers where deep fording is a thing.
Glad you chose to do this John. Anything worth saying is going to be upsetting someone.
I hope the whole 4WD aftermarket industry grabs pitchforks, tar and feathers. Let's turn it into a spectacle!
@@AutoExpertJC Yeah, the 4wd aftermarket industry is taking the piss out of us Aussie Bogans.
A lot of the sales BS that's being served up is compleatly misleading and irresponsible.
However, I think snorkels are only a minor offence. You should see some of the suspension mods, wheel offsets, larger tyres, steel bullbars, roofracks ect. These are the dangerous ones. And so many of these aftermarket installers/retailers have no clue what they're doing and many people end up learning the hardway.
You forgot to mention the most important reason for getting a snorkel!
Awesome turbo/induction noise.
Especially when it’s just outside drivers window. It’s worth every cent of the $116 spent.
Although I agree with most of what you said my air filter is definitely staying a lot cleaner since snorkel install
Yes turbo/induction noise can be a issue. My Nissan TD27 turbo has no issue at all but my Nissan TD42T does have some so I ended up making a Helmholtz Resonator tuned to that frequency. Super easy to make and install. All I had to do was measure the frequency, do some “beer garden mathematics or use a downloadable calculator and made it out of ready available tubing. Works very well.
There’s no issue with awesome turbo noises and stustustu noises when you lift the throttle how is that an issue? My mate has a factory turbo safari td42 with a 4” stainless snorkel and everybody loves the sound it sounds like a Kenworth truck.
A resignator in a snorkel? Really? That’s one of the most stupid things I’ve heard
Best video yet John👏
I work in a quarry with landrover series 2 adding a snorkel was a life saver for the air cleaner as the standard air cleaner takes air from the engine bay also there was a significant impact on performance especially in summer
What a load of Bullshit
These videos are getting better and better. Love these offroad themed videos as Im planning on buying an offroader soon. Love the advice. NO GO FOR A SNORKEL.
I bought one 3 years ago and i love it. Mine´s still stock.
Thanks Stewart. Needed that. (Just had a guy in the comments tell me I was becoming too toxic...)
Hehe. I've owned three 4x4s over 30 years, and done creek and river crossings without one... Never needed one. I tell people this, and the retort is always "but they look cool". You just can't fix stupid.
No mention of the horrendous induction noise with these things. As a service mechanic i have road tested many of these wannabe wank chariots over the years, no thank you.
I thought it made my SUV even more manly/macho than it was before. I mean, what woman can resist induction roar; she'll be in my lap and squirming like a trout! I'll have to pull over and take care of her for safety's sake. /sarcasm. :)
Yip, agree, Avoid a snorkel if you can, I f in hate that noise. Better than hydraulicing, but it pisses me off. Especially noticeable off road around water as I keep the windows down, not really keen on getting rolled in a river with electric windows.
Nah, that is the best part.
I beg to differ, you can't tarnish them all with the same brush. I've had a stainless snorkel on my sr5 for over 12 months now. Guy at work was thinking of buying one too but was worried about the induction noise and asked if he could go for a drive in mine. I said "there's no point going for a drive, you won't hear anything", that's because you won't. Not all have that induction sound. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.
@@smatt9993 Part of the problem is the side the snorkel is mounted. Generally they are installed on the side the airbox is mounted. My 2008 Hilux has it on the drivers side, hence I get induction noise. Would be great if I had it on the other side, but that is becomes a market specific issue.
Doing work for the insurance industry..John's observations re warranty are spot on. The first thing the OEM is going to do when there is a failure claim is to drain the oil of the diffs and gearbox, and if they find more than a mere smidgen of emulsification, the claim is toast. So unless you really have to enter water-life and death stuff-don't. I just don't see the point with an expensive SUV anyway.
All very valid points. Thanks for the report John.
However, I have a questions.
The baking under the sun snorkel wouldn't be cooled by the ambient air while driving?
I also wanted to add, why do 70 series land cruisers come with a factory NON-submarine spec snorkel?
I believe the reason is to use a cyclone-style snorkel therefore another advantage to fit a snorkel it the ability to fit such item.
Isn't this relevant?
Thanks
Got to love a self proclaimed expert 🤪 The main use is for beach driving. If you get bogged and the tide comes in it gives you way more time to recover your vehicle. Not everyone lives in the city.
The bull/roo bar serves a purpose as does a snorkel and the snorkels primary purpose is to prevent water ingress , as for soft roaders that add the accessories for show I totally agree . Plus it’s a front fender not a mud guard dude , snorkels don’t filter anything as you stated but the changing of my filter has shown on many occasions to be less clogged with a snorkel than without . Entertaining as always John 👍
John, your so right most 4x4 never see the outback roads let alone gravel and not just Snorkels are not required but other items that's bling up the SUIT UTE MOB, snorkels not fitted properly, meaning leaking are about a useless as an ashtray on a motor bike, I have a snorkel on my 4x4 and breather for the required areas only been up to the windows in water a few times no damage yet, can't really blame people for wasting there had earned cash when theirs so much pressure to buy the biggest, the best ,the highest , and all the things you just can't live without, cheers mate good blog need more roof rack loading next please.
Of course the air is going to be cleaner up top rather than the air churning around in your guard . With dust pouring off your tyres
Especially when driving in a convoy.
I don’t agree. I have a Safari snorkel on my Pajero Sport and daily drive on corrugated dusty roads - often behind other vehicles in the same long dust cloud. For 5 years now I have noticed that the snorkel makes no difference to dust ingestion - there is no laminar flow of dust - it is just dust. In flood I have waded over 400m in marked water levels of 1m. The snorkel was fully sealed and no water ingression occurred however I had a blanket on the front and constant momentum. On reflection, it was t the snorkel that saved the day but the bow wave of the blanket. My next 4x4 will not have a snorkel- a waste of money - I believed the Journo hype and now I see the light.
@@hughgreen7826 of course it’s not going to make a difference if you drive behind other vehicles are you being serious ? 🤦♂️. At all other times the air is cleaner up high, your thermo fan under engine bay churns up dust , your wheels are doing the same and if air is being pulled from in the guard you do the math
The air is also hotter up top, that will mean more fuel requires gor the same amount of combustion.
I see the snorkel as the 4WD's version of a big rear wing spoiler on an SS Commodore, looks good but does very little under 99% of use and yes I've had one. Remember also that if you exceed 800mm in a new car it becomes a boat as the door seals work so well that vehicle will float which your snorkel won't help a bit.
um, my door seals don't work that well LoL
When a vehicle has a wading depth, it doesn’t take into account the flow rate or suspension bounce when crossing a Victorian high country river.
I have seen with my own eyes the difference in dust to the Air filter doing a outback trip with 2 vehicles taking turns driving in the dust.
So, how many air filters can you buy for the price of a snorkel? Here in Cape town I can buy 93 air filters for the price of a snorkel. If I replace the air filter every 10 000km , I can do 930 000km with all those air filters.
Dust.... intake for the 200 series is above the front tyre, there are cut outs in this guard. Relocating this position to the roof does massively reduce dust. The picture john is using here is at speed, what about that 10 to 40 kmph mark where dust fills the arch.
Looking in the mirror and seeing my old man still freaks me out a bit😁
It is confronting - I prescribe alcohol for this.
@@AutoExpertJC and now I understand why my father drinks
Thanks for putting this argument together, John. Now I don't have to be the dude that no one wants to talk to when camping because I've called bullshit on the Roger Ramjet effect of the snorkel when there is a turbo charger between intake and engine. Just call it for what it is, a cool looking accessory similar to the rubber dog nuts hanging from the towbar, or nodding elvis on the dash.
John common, my snorkle has lowered my fuel consumption by 30%.
I tell my wife that every time i fill up.
She just looks at me.
At least 30%
my 4wd still has it's original non-turbo 1hz diesel motor from manufacture in early 1992. Thought about a snorkel but for exactly the reasons you mentioned I've not been able to justify putting one on. My vehicle has slightly bigger tyres and a slight amount of suspension lift already so it's wading depth is increased above standard. And yes your comments about breathers is important because so many people forget about them, and keeping them out of water!
You could do a whole series on useless 4wd accessories - suspension lifts, roof racks with sweet FA capacity, rear bars that weight 100Kg, light bars...the list goes on.
I put the snorkel on my 75, It made the engine run cooler as the air intake was now not from the ambient temperature the block is making and trapping in the engine bay
Noticeable and measurable drop in exhaust gas temperature
I can give you a good justification for getting a snorkel: Living in a Brazilian city where flash floods happen. :^)
Yep living in Australia where dickheads look for flash flooding and drive through it cos they it’s the only time they do a water crossing.
John,
I'd like to offer you an opinion or at least a viewpoint from the other side of the fence. And its here for others contemplation as well. I do think the which car article was a bit broad and vague in explaining why snorkels are purchased.
Firstly, you are correct when you say the aftermarket sector is quick to suggest you have a warranty when installing an aftermarket product. I've worked in the industry, I have some stories to tell about dealers and aftermarket accessories. You are also correct in saying that for consumer purposes its easier to go to the dealer and have a genuine item fitted as it would be, at a minimum, an 'easier' trip to the dealer with your tail tucked between your legs. You are also correct about the air ram effect. But that gets a little confusing, the 'air ram' head is not there it provides a stream of compressed air. It is designed to water seperate. Water is heavier than air so if you drive through rain, the water hits the back of the snorkel head and drains out the back of the snorkel head. This is something people compromise when going for stainless snorkels.
However, there is one thing you miss. Dealers fit aftermarket accessories, and they do it often. If genuine don't sell a snorkel for the vehicle, suddenly the warranty issues surround the genuine snorkel seem to disappear? Or at least that's how it seems when you supply one to a dealer for a customer. You also need to remember that the consumer base that will actually use a 4wd for its intended purpose, despite how soft and daily driver 'like' these vehicles are becoming, is larger than 0.01%. In fact, it would be closer to 30-40%. Specifically, with Covid and other restrictions, people want out. They want to explore. And these vehicles are advertised by manufacturers without a snorkel to drive through deep water. Yes, they will almost never show it crossing more than its wading depth, but the suggestive marketing can be taken in many ways. With so many people using these vehicles for what they were built for, more and more people are starting to realise that no matter what you do, its almost impossible to not void your warranty. Suspension kit for a little extra clearance? Void. Larger tyres? Void. Dual battery setup? Void. Bullbar (non genuine?). Void (and that one is proper crap, another story another time).
So it seems to a large customer base, that no matter how you do it if you want to set up a vehicle for towing or recreational touring, don't want to pay the ridiculous markup costs for the 'genuine' copy of a quality product on the market, and want to use the vehicle for its intended purpose then you are shit out of luck. Buy a camper trailer I hear you ask? Huh. Well, let's see. Additional ball weight, you will need suspension or airbags for the rear. Warranty Void. The required dual battery system, brake controller and Anderson plug run to the rear. Warranty void (additional non-genuine load on the alternator. Yep I've heard it all). See where I'm going with this? A good portion of the customer base of commonly sold 4wd's will use these vehicles for shopping and getting the kids. But another large portion will use these vehicles for more than that. And by doing so, just accept that losing the warranty is part of the deal. Alternatively, a lot of my customer buy a new secondhand (just outside of the warranty period) or wait until the vehicle is outside of the warranty and then modify the car. Because at the end of the day, the vehicle was built to perform recreational activities, some of which require driving over terrain that requires things the manufacturer does not care to cater for.
Water crossings. Yeah. Not great for the car without a snorkel. Nothing quite sounds like it. Some 4WDers don't understand the limitations of the car. Snorkels are an assistive tool in crossing water. A safety net if you will. But wading depths often take into account diff breathers, computers and electronics mounted within the vehicles, both inside and out. Some are rated for water ingress, but maybe not for long periods of being submerged in muddy water. So what do you do? Well, you install a snorkel and understand the limits of your car. It doesn't necessarily mean a snorkel doesn't have a place. Nor is it useless. Snorkels are also used for getting a cleaner, cooler and easier access point for that all-important oxygen needed for the engine to run. If you do any form of 4WDing or touring, you will find yourself driving through the dust. Dust is a heavy particle in the air, the higher you put the intake the less dust you will ingest. The image you showed, is a pretty piss poor dirt road. That is bulldust, but I guarantee you after driving in that crap for most of my life, that's not how bulldust looks. Either that image is doctored to make the car look better, or he's going at warp speed which, look you need pace in bulldust, but stupid fast can land you in a world of pain. And let's not talk about air filters doing their job with the Toyota owners watching yeah? You cannot rely on manufacturers airboxes doing their job. Just google Hilux, 200 series or 79 series air filter issues... Also snorkels can be used with an oiled snorkel sock which helps to filter particles. Imagine how much dust is getting flicked off the tyres near your front guard? Factory air intakes are mounted TIGHT inside guards and grills. Often not a great place for an engine to get air. A good way to think of it is going for a run with a straw in your mouth. Now I'm sure the manufacturers doing there 1 billion km test schedule on the hardest terrain in their best friends lunchbox. But living in Central Aus, the number of times I have had a manufacturer of anything come to me and say, 'oh we tested it alright! You won't break this!'. I just smile. Let's go for a drive... I'll pick the road. Bring a vomit bag. Remembering there is a lot of people who rely on these vehicles in the outback, who don't have a choice about driving over these conditions. So we also can't just say, well you're an idiot for driving down that road. These vehicles were designed to EXPLORE. Exploring requires traversing terrain that's not really your average tarmac road. But cattle property owners and remote police, for example, don't have a choice.
Now a snorkel will not give you a performance gain by the numbers. But will give you a cleaner AFR (air-fuel ratio) curve through your engines rev range. Your claim about air temperatures being no different from waist height to head height completely misses the point of a snorkel. if the ambient temperature is hot, that's the job of an intercooler. Compressed air is hot from a turbo, but it will be hotter again if the ambient temperatures are up. That's why vehicles have intercoolers. Being a modern diesel, the ECU is going to see a healthy stream of air coming through the intake and allow for longer periods of high power output before the computer starts playing with numbers. Often a big factor when towing. Having more torque under the foot means better fuel economy over time. BUT it will give you more punch, whether that's on the beach or soft sand where you need that off the get-go power to get up on top of the sand (sand driving often means lots of revs but not much actual speed or airflow to cool the vehicle off. No road speed, no convection effect. Why do dyno's run fans when ramping up vehicles?) or if you're taking off from the traffic light in a hurry racing Karen in her Sahara. A guard will only hold a small volume of air ready to be consumed by the engine. Once the engine sucks that air down, the air bleeds in through whatever cracks and crevises it can find to supply the motor. That guard will get hot as you go and as the engine cycles through its heat range. If on long drives, heat soak starts to be an issue. And the temperature of the snorkel on the side of your car will be MUCH cooler than the heat soaked intake piping of your engine bay. Think about it, you say 70 degrees? Even after an intercooler, your intake temperatures at the manifold will still be approaching 100 degrees. Sucking more hot air in from within the engine bay will only make this worse. Now, remember I never said MORE POWER. I said better efficiency. Cold air intakes are a myth for power gains. Most dyno tests have proven that, but specifically, in diesel's, they do show a cleaner burn of fuel under compression. Suddenly intake temps rise. In a modern diesel, you will never see signs of this. Modern engines and their fancy ECU's are designed to endlessly tweak to give you the best possible set of engine variables for any given environment. But at a compromise to power torque and efficiency. Hot air means less dense boom inside the engine. A less dense boom means less fuel injected and timing retarded. Less timing and fuel, less power worse fuel economy as now the motors working harder to achieve the same goal.
Snorkels have a place. Maybe not for double shot mochaccino soy latte drinkers with the extra shot of caramel. But to a large percentage of a vehicles customer base, its a requirement for more than water crossings. There are real reasons that are easily proven to show why a snorkel is used and required. But as you would represent that majority of buyers, I can understand where you are coming from. For a large percentage, it is not needed.
In case of minor ingestion, rod knock is far from deafening silence.
If this rod's a knockin', you're buying a new engine! :(
Thanks for airing this load of cods wallop, this exact subject is one of my many crusades in the pub or home or work place , in fact anywhere I can blow all this shit away and burst their bubbles and hopefully help them save their money.
I had this out with a mate of a mate just a couple of weeks ago whereby he asked for my opinions on the snorkel idea as well as a short fat loud exhaust.
He understood all of my recommendations and criticisms and could see the waste of time and money that it involved.
He still went out and handed his hard earned to an eager supplier and installer against all the considerations.
Then still had the gall to say "well that was a waste of money, It made fuck all difference "
Just goes to show , you cant help some people and some people just cant help themselves .
Somebody should tell boat-people about differential breather extensions. I'm a mechanic that lives near a large lake. I'm getting sick of the smelly gray sludge filling my waste-oil bin...
Had a good laugh this morning. Totally agree with your comments John. Watched my nephew gradually destroy the pristine 2002 Hilux I handed down to him when I upgraded over the course of a couple of years. Mud and water tends to get in everywhere when you do extreme stuff! Was warned.....but these young bucks know better.....guess they have more free time to tinker with their trucks.
On the subject of snorkels, I could never understand why you wanted to have something up on that 'A' pillar obstructing some of your view...or creating wind noise at highway speeds???
Totally agreed on all points mate.
@@AutoExpertJC so the air extension is above the vehicle roof what is the air availability in the cab for the driver and passengers when the vehicle is driving in close to maximum depth provided by the extension...scuba tank and goggles recommended.
Also wouldn't the vehicle float away in water depth approaching middle height on the windshield.
Classic JC, often wondered if they actually do anything..
I thought the comments section would blow up about how wrong you are..... guess I was wrong....
...but you have made a very valid point and I find myself agreeing with you
Im going to dingo piss creek next week, you haven't been off road, snorkles make the difference
I lived on a cattle station, during times of big bushfires sometimes the volunteer fire fighters would come out to do burning off or trying to stop the fire, basically alot of zooming around near the bushfire. A couple of times they've sucked embers from the fire down into their snorkel and set their airfilter on fire lol
I love a well researched and tested video, though this isn't one of those....
Ever done back to back before and after testing using a manometer and OBD2 datalogging testing, I'm assuming by the content, not.
I have, you probably should have before shooting this.....
Strongly agree, makes these videos like a reality tv show then an engineering show, shows how little he prepares for these videos
I think the dust reason is more relevant than the water depth.
If not elevating the diff breathers also, then fitting a snorkel is useless.
Hi John
Have you had a look at 4x4 roof racks ,some high end expensive models on duel cab utes are only rated at 15-20 kilograms !!!
I've also been reading into this.. would be nice to see a video on racks.. modern 4x4 roofs are too thin for what owners want.. weight and fuel numbers are all manufactures care about.. fair enough but bites us in the arse latter on.
Check out Tyler Thompson or RonniecDahal on roof rack loadimg. Very interesting
@@richardwalsh5570 yes i know , i think Johns analysis would be very interesting and quit frankly hilarious - im sure you would agree .
I would probably install a snorkel if it didn't mean having to drill a hole in the fender of a 1981 hilux, I don't like doing irreversible damage or mods to old cars that are getting hard to come by especially in original condition.
You missed one of the most compelling reasons to fit a snorkel. That is, if you fit a bull bar (or similar) then you should probably also get a snorkel. Why? When the front bumper is removed, the air intake in a number of cars becomes dramatically more exposed to water going right into the air intake, often below the nominal fording depth. This can happen with a splash, brief dip and water surges e.g. car other direction. Seen many posts of not too deep water, and water going in: prados, Y62, fords all with bars. Instead of being protected in the guard, the newly exposed guard catches water (e.g. splashed at speed, or a surprised hole at lower speed) and directs it to the intake. Some years ago I had a legitimate accidental water emersion - drove one direction check all water I crossed etc, changed route. On the return trip I thought I was going the same way, but evidently was not at one point and fell into a crazy deep hole - rapid reverse count down to turn off the engine (3 2 1 off) popped out at 1 - there was water in the air box. Decision made get a snorkel - great piece of mind for subsequent journeys inc Old Tele Track. With my next car Y62, having the same debate - I will probably get one, if I get a bar (roo protection, or post first roo hit) then definitely will get a snorkel.
I had a snorkel on a Colorado and the induction noise was not pleasant with the drivers side window open, particularly when the motor was under load.
As you said to Big Red, suck, don’t blow.
Kitting up your daily drive like this because it may be useful on the weekend is like wearing a Santa suit all year round because it may be useful in December. You look like a Burke the majority of the time...
Every year, 120 vehicles are towed out of cape York because of water damage. It doesn’t take much of a dip in the river bottom to dip the air intake under, even though the river might be only 60 cm deep on average.
Don't Landcruiser utes come with a raised air intake as standard ?
You thrashed that one to bits, John - Also generating much interesting comment :)
But hey: Local car manufacturing's gone. Give 'em a break - Let at least, Bull Bars & Snorkels, be a last bastion?
"No Bread? Let 'em eat cake?"
There was an incident: 4wd out bush - Sudden tropical storm - Flash flood...
Unfortunate driver tried to make it back to base - Vehicle stalled, mid crossing :( He radioed - Got a tow.
Yep. Bent con rod - Company vehicle... He was interviewed in the Boss' office & "moved on" :(
Snorkels - 😂😂😂 I’m quite certain that any increase in engine performance due to ram effect would be more than offset by the drag caused by the snorkel itself.
I dont want to drive through water higher than my inlet. But diff/trans breather kit is a must.
Love this! You're starting to become the "oracle" when it comes to cars for me. I dont like it.. but i do at the same time.... lol
Hurts so good... Thanks for watching.
@@AutoExpertJC have to agree. No one else agrees with me on the fact that you should 2 hands on the wheel as much as possible just in case, among a lot of others things.
Wouldn't the snorkel suck in the rainwater to cause damage? What prevents the water from getting into the engine? Same with driving, without a snorkel, in the rain with the high humidity?
Not much water actually enters the snorkel head, even in driving rain (counter-intuitive, but true). The water that does enter gets dried by the passing airflow along the length of the pipe (kind of like a leaf blower drying a puddle). For any water that actually makes that far down, there is a small well/drain, and of course the air-box itself is designed to handle small amounts of water. Finally, as unlikely as it is, any water droplets swimming like sperm to a Ming Moll's eggs, they still have to pass though the air filter which acts like a condom of sorts, and on a 4WD, its a large filter.
John your a bit harsh on Bonds and blue singlets mate. Both iconic in stralya.
Agree with you on every point John, but I'm still buying a 150 buck cheapy and chucking it on my Range chariot dude only to look good, not going to bother hooking it up, as long as she looks the part aye
That’s a fair comment enjoy!
"I would holesaw the shit out of that!"
I think we all have days where this is appropriate, S-class dodgily parked or not.
Higher?
Yes
Cooler?
70,000+ km of monitoring a 4WDs sensors in various conditions I concluded:
- Snorkel with forward facing head (ram air) = +3° above ambient when underway.
- no snorkel and Intake in forward portion of front wheel wheel = +18-20° above ambient when underway.
- Idle, depends on weather but could get to +30° above ambient.
Cleaner?
Low speed unsealed road = absolutely
High speed unsealed road = no difference
On road = no difference
Validated using a number experiments.
Unless you do remote outback or serious 4wding there is no need for a snorkel don't bother save the cash
If you do remote outback or serious 4wding then get a snorkel it could save you thousands
It's that simple
from one John to another...hilarious!
Another good’un, John. Thanks. If I might offer a suggestion for a follow-up, what accessories actually DO make sense for a 4x4 to prep for a trip around Aussie national parks?
Send lawyers, guns and money! -- Warren Zevon, "Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money"
All-Terrain tires. 2" lift (if you're doing specific 4x4 tracks). Recovery kit/gear. Tire deflator/inflator. Maybe a dual battery system, if you want a fridge, and extra camp lights. If you can get away with an ice box, you don't need anything else.
Another reason for fitting a snorkel is this. I do single vehicle offroad travelling towing a camper. I installed a winch so I could self recover, the winch requires a mounting point so I installed a cheap bullbar, in doing this they removed the front bumper and some of the inner guard. Which means even a relatively shallow creek or puddle can force water up into the inner guard where the air intake is. Yes driving slow through water is a better option but you don't get the cheer from the kids. There are quite a few influencers who have used science to prove snorkels don't do anything other than keep water out. The message is getting out there slowly. Good story.
This is so entertaining! I do not have a lot of knowledge when it comes to mechanics. It only takes common sense to work this one out. I'm sure 80 percent of snorkels have only been used once by driving into a deep pond and then frantically backing out again just to see if the accessory works.
I want to drive through bull dust, so I fit a snorkel to suck clean air from above the vechicle. GOOD ENOUGH REASON ?
@@chrispbacon3042 hahahahahahaha.way to funny for bintang or blue singlet wearing accessory buyers.Need a catch can!!!!
You should have listened to the teacher at school too late now after reading your comment.
@@stendecstretcher4983 Bull dust is driven at much much slower speeds with unseen holes causing the frount end to bounce. Which throws large plumes of dust in frount of the vechicle and into the engine bay this dust is extremely fine and clogs up the air filter very quickly. It plays havoc with modern cars air sensors.
@@stendecstretcher4983 you are referring to which comment?
It's handy that ARB and Ford are now reported to be in business and warranty is covered for after market products, fitted by the dealer.
You forgot that my Navara with the factory snorkel has an A pillar that is now a foot wide and creates a massive blind spot while dropping the kids off at school or doing the shopping
Same with the Isuzu D-max and MU-X. Their A pillars easily hide a snorkel and you can't see it from the driver's seat.
Serves you right for buying a Nissan bro.
Who does that!
@@shanejumbo4432 alright.....it was a moment of weakness, i had my previous one for over 20 years(MQ shorty 2.8 petrol) it never missed a beat and i did all my own servicing so there was never arguments about service. After i bought the NAVARA(which is better than a 30 year old shorty) i found i cant even buy a service manual a d i am on my third factory intercooler😟
I was sitting around the campfire just next to Dingo Piss Creek talking to a guy about his LS powered GU Patrol. He explained that it was making around 200kw at the wheels on a dyno, but mentioned that he had to replace the regular 'Safari' style snorkel with a custom 4" stainless steel snorkel so that he could gain more air flow to make those numbers. How is that possible if snorkels don't increase air flow? PS my 4WD is fitted with a snorkel, and besides that fact that I've done Cape York, Arnhem Land and the Victorian High Country in it, it makes me feel really tough when I pull up to the Woolies carpark to pick up my supply of toilet paper, YEEEEESSSSSSS
Biggest thing for snorkels is less dust on dirt roads. Be cause for some insane reason most 4x4s pick up their air from the front wheel
Thank you million John! Excellent 👌🏼 video very useful information you make me safe money and time indeed. Fully clear understandable logical explanation in every way indeed….