Perhaps the next theorem video could be why move sets (like mix attacking, fast physical, bulky special, etc) are close to everything or the Infernape theorem
How'd you guys get away with showing emulated gameplay on a phone without getting Nintendo mad at you? I ask for my own curiosity and endeavors as a content creator trying to come back from my old channel getting destroyed from doing a SM64 playthrough with a Brian Griffin mod ;-;
@@josephbulkin9222 wire sucks so much. Should have given a secondary fighting type, and some actual goid physical electric moves. Such a lost opportunity.
I still love electivire. Despite all it's downfalls after a motor drive boost it's coverage and an expert belt *can* do some late game cleaning... with prediction.
Mega Garchomp should've been on this as an honorable mention because the only reason it's never been lower than OU is because its base form outclasses it in nearly every way lmao
I say that only applies to gen 6 and gen 9 national dex ou. As mega garchomp was actually consider a pretty mon and sidegrade to reg garchomp in gen 7(mixed wallbreaker) and gen 8 national dex ou(hyper offence scale shot sweeper). And I think it didn’t get a mention because it was ranked ou by technicality, not actually ranked ou itself
@@ZelongDongBecause those straight upgrades do different things and have different strengths and weaknesses. And I’m talking about gen 7, not 6 where mega aren’t the main focus of a team composition , and the opportunity cost isn’t as detrimental.
No one ever thought Mega Garchomp was actually good, though. From the very first day of XY, every single competitive player recognized that it was inferior to base Garchomp and was not a true OU threat. The Pokemon listed in this video were all considered to be actually viable in OU at some point.
Yes, that's just how it is. Gen 4 OU players just don't want to update their OU tier, that's why Electivire and Dusknoir are still stuck there to this day. They just decided the job was done and left it in this unfinished state. The viability rankings change so much each time that Gen 4 OU is becoming more and more unrecognizable as a tier (and pointless as an introduction to playing the actual metagame).
I mean, not only that but there have been major rule changes since the generation ended such as baton pass with stat buffs and arena trap being banned. You would think they would update the tier list at least once just to reflect how the ruleset shaped the meta.
Let me guess, Donphan is on the list? I still remember people trying to make it work so hard in BW despite us having a plethora of spinners that were not weak to water.
Not going to lie, I thought Donphan was the secret sauce. Literally everything you could want on a tank. Hazard setting, spinning, phazing, and great power and coverage all on a single pokemon. You can't deny how tempting it is.
how was metagross in gen 4 a "noob trap" it was one of the best late game offensive pokemon with its agility set but maybe there was a mistake in the script
For the Golem segment, I would like to mention that Golem was a much better paralysis spreader than Rhydon was with Body Slam. Once it was discovered Body Slam cannot paralyze the Normal Types, then one of the other important niches Golem had over Rhydon disappeared overnight.
It pretty much boils down to prevent Fire types being burned from Fire move, Ice types from being frozen and electric types from being paralyzed from electric attacks they coded the game to not apply main status ailment from attacks that are the same type. So Normal types end up being immune to paralysis from Body Slam for gen one.
I remember teaching Rhydon ice punch in gen 2 and wondering why it barely scratched the opponent, before learning about types being fixed to either physical or special
@@AgsmaJustAgsma they had bubblebeam rhydon on rhydon to lower your opponents speed when they retreat and are incoming. But you could use Surf to attack golems and other rhydon. So you were not dreaming
Now even more, since Electabuzz got back Follow Me (once a special move from the Purified Shadow Electabuzz of Pokémon XD) and in Regulation H of VGC is one of the best supporters.
I always thought it was interesting how they made Regice move more robotically than Registeel. i feel it also kinda compliments it's cry, which out of the 3 regis is the most robot like.
ADV Cloyster deserves a mention here, too. Its Water/Ice typing feels like such a handicap here, and there’s almost no reason to use it as your Spikes setter over Skarmory. Even the less common Forretress has an easier time switching into physical attackers and/or pulling off a successful Rapid Spin, a move which itself Cloyster can learn but is outclassed in. If Cloyster was pure Water, that would help it a lot, but it would still face competition from at least Skarmory and Rapid Spin Starmie. In fact, we know the former to be true since pure Water Cloyster has been tried out in custom ADV mods before to noticeable success.
Oddly enough, Regice has seen a renaissance in ADV OU. On both offense and Boom Spam hyperoffense, it's not used as a tank, pivot, or or utility mon in the same way you'd imagine Swampert or Claydol. Instead, it's used as a momentum generator, and not just for Dugtrio. It has a simple objective: -Come in on a special attacker -Force them out with boltbeam coverage -TWave whatever switches in -If the switch-in would be immediately threatened by a setup sweeper *or* Dugtrio, blow up to guarantee the free turn or trap. The reason this works over Snorlax is due to the mons that Regice invites in - Metagross, Tyranitar, Blissey and Lax especially. Snorlax scares these mons away with Earthquake/Return, and is often answered by roars from Skarmory, Zapdos and Suicune. Snorlax's Self Destruct absolutely does more damage outright, but Regice can set up a much more dangerous scenario - a double KO is fine as a trade, but a weakened, paralyzed, roarless target forces your opponent into lose-lose situations. The strategy has a notable weakness to Gengar, defensive Rest sets, and ironically, other booms. That said, If your opponent doesn't have an option that immediately kills Regice, they're going to get boomed and either trapped or set-up on. This approach to Regice actually saw significant use in high-level play, both in ADV Revival 2 and the Jimvitational.
As for DPP Umbreon, I might be wrong, but its OU status is likely a relic of a time Mean Look + Baton Pass was legal, and since that ban occurred after Gen 4 ended, the usage stats couldn’t be altered.
That's definitely not true, but regice is doing well as people realize bolt answer is essentially required. Also with how twave is becoming more broken.
If you want to learn more about the story at the top of this list, look up 'The Rock Wars', it's GENUINELY fascinating to see how this evolved and changed during the years and what finally tipped the scales.
Bro should make a 12+ hour long history of ALL competitive Pokemon. Chronological and everything, it's not one Pokemon at a time, it's one generation at a time and it covers every Pokemon ranked above untiered. It'd take probably at least a year to make but I'd watch it
Here is some other mons that could go on here: Gen 5 & 6 Dugtrio: Very self-explanatory; the mon was busted back when Arena Trap was allowed, but after its ban, the mon became completely useless. The Arena Trap ban happened long after Gen 5 & 6 were the current gens, so Dug is trapped in complete uselessness in OU. Gen 5 Venusuar: Also very self-explanatory; the mon was busted back when the combination of Drought + Chlorophyll was allowed, but became essentially useless after the ban, and this too happened after Gen 5 was the current gen. The only use case of Venu is to counter-team opposing Sun teams, but not only Sun teams are fairly rare, they are typically more stall oriented which Venu doesn't provide much value against. Gen 5 Toxicroak: Was a good mon for a long while as a means of being a Fighting type mon that functions very well under permanent Rain. However, it is a mon that functions purely off of Rain due to its poor stats outside of attack, and eventually the value the mon provides starting fazing out more and more as time goes on. Currently, it is a D ranked mon in the VR and an "OU by technicality" mon by usage. Gen 6 Raikou: The purest example of a once popular anti-meta threat; early XY had Thundurus-I and Talonflame usage be at 3000% and Raikou is an excellent check to both of those plus other mons like Mega Pinsir. However, times have not been kind to it, as both of those aforementioned mons, while still very strong, isn't as popular going into ORAS and beyond, and the tier became more dominated by mons that it doesn't fare very well against, most notably Excadrill becoming a top 2 mon in the tier alongside Clefable. It is not the worst thing you can put on a team, as a few players think it is a little better than what its C- rank in the VR says, but it definitely fells off hard and became a mediocre OU mon, earning its "OU by technicality" distinction.
Mega Metagross, Mega Lopunny and Excadrill. Mega Gardevoir is so fragile and Mega Metagross is the fourth most used Mega, that you don't want to use your mega in a Pokémon that dies to a priority move. Lopunny defeats Gardevoir with fake out and return and it is the most used Mega in gen 6 OU due to the fact that nothing can't resist her STABs. Excadrill is the most used Pokémon in the tier and if gardevoir focus blast misses Gardevoir dies. And Mega Alakazam outclassing its damage and taking the spot as better psychic mega amd second best OU Mega that outspeed and one shot Mega Lopunny doesn't help Gardevoir. Medicham is the third most used Mega and it is a 50/50 becuase they have the same speed and Medicham defeats Gardevoir with fake out + any coverage unresisted move but if Gardevoir wins the speed tie, bye Medicham
Rip to any bad OU Pokemon in gens 4 and beyond. The playerbase just refuses to update tiers so you can’t go down to lower tiers where you could do something…
My picks for Gens 6-9 Gen 6: The bad Megas that are in the tier because their base forms are good (Garchomp, Latios, and Tyranitar). Gen 7: Gengar. It was OU for a long time because of pure cope. Gen 8: Seismitoad. Because of the dex cut, this garbage was somehow OU before the DLC. Gen 9: Serperior. Quite possibly the most overhyped Pokémon since Vire and Dusknoir; it went from being considered broken in OU to being an alright UU Pokémon.
Seismitoad was used in pre-DLC because is one of the two things (the other is Gastrodon) that can switch into Dracovish without dying. Yes, you need an immunity to switch into Dracovish. With rain or a bit of chip damage the Choice Band can easily smash even Ferrothorn or Toxapex in two hits.
I remember Vaporeon terrorizing mixed attacking teams I used to play. If you were counting on LO Infernape or Salamanca to wall break through, Vaporeon was literally the worst thing to see hit the field. In a world without Mixmence though, walls are just much more free to specialize, cover each other, and be more turned to the fewer threats of the modern meta. You don’t need Vappy in a post-Mence world.
for #2 -- iirc, espeon's magic bounce in baton pass was a key part of *why* smogon banned BP, so it was party to its own reason to be removed out of OU.
Why being one level lower sometimes matters The Groudon theorem There once was a play with groudon and trick room where you actually preferred it to be one level lower than the level cap (49 instead of 50) that ensures to avoid a speed tie if the same had the same level which was by the same iv investment much more common yet being one level lower isn‘t siginifant enough to be a actual threat against other effective attacks
@@SPZ-gv2onBand is decent too! I mean, it's not great, don't get me wrong, but it breaks most fat mons not named Moltres and it's super fast for the role. A Band Meow with Flower Trick/Knock Off/Sucker Punch/U-turn is pretty workable on some sorta offense I'd say
The teiring mentioned in this video makes me feel less confused about Scar/Vi's tiers. For example: What do you mean Zapdos-G, Zoroark-H,Goodra-H, and Lilligant-H are all in RU while Donphan, Comfey, Lokix, and Slowking are in UU? (This is using the current tiers as of posting this comment)
Dude. Eletivire's only problem is that it lacks a good STAB option. Just give it Plasma Fist (Zeraora's signature move) and Close Combat; problem solved. In fact, Plasma Fist needs to be distributed anyway. It's an awesome move that's gone to waste *FOR 5+ YEARS* because it's stuck on a pokemon that would likely be amazing, but GF won't let us use (poor mythicals). It's been long enough; it's time to let everyone else have a turn and here's every pokemon who should learn it: Pawmot, Iron Hands, Eelektross, and Thundarus. These pokemon should learn Plasma Fist because it would be a massive boon and/or it makes thematic/logical sense with their lore and anatomy. I think the list of potential users should be limited to only electric types and even then, it should be relatively small (think fire types with Eruption).
They’re not going to give away what makes a Mythical so special and unique (their signature move). And Electivire would still suck with good stab because it’s still too slow, frail and having weak af coverage.
Golem may be the worst OU Pokemon of all time, but it was still a badass who helped 7 year old me defeat Red Version for the first time so the rocky boi has a special place in my heart
You’d think regarding DPP and BW that the smogon teams would forcibly drop those pokemon to UU with an extra stipulation that they can’t be brought back up to OU. Maybe devote two years to reopening the balance forums regarding those pokemon. If they’re good in UU, they stay there, too strong, put them back in BL, not doing anything, let them drop to RU/NU. Treat is the same way the Advanced Scyther clause was treated.
as much as i like regice these days i find it better to use it alongside zard and claydol as a tankier alternative to offensive gengar and not really anywhere else
I had a fairly good time with Vaporeon on my weatherless gen 5 team. Particularly to pass wishes to multiscale Dragonite, helping to switch into him tank a hit with multiscale, then heal him back up to have multiscale again next turn to Dragon Dance with. Keeping status effects off with heal bell and overall keeping the rest of the squad healthy was neat too. Particularly Magnezone, as Ferrothorn was the most common switch into Vaporeon. Forretress, Vaporeon, Porygon2 and Skarmory made the core to slowly wear the enemy team down, Magnezone was used to trap steel types and Sub/Roost/DD/DClaw Dragonite to clean up, though I sometimes used Gengar to spin block and overall be a nuisance with sub+pain split. Max HP adamant choice band Scizor too because he was just good overall and yet another pokemon that benefited from Vaporeon wishes.
When I got my RUclips Gaming rewind it told me I was in the top 0.2% of your channels watchers, and that I watch your channel 25x more then the average person. I WONDER if I should get the Patreon.
Golem was my ace in gen IV tournament play (before world championships were established in my region), with custap berry, sucker punch and explosion. Many people expected it to be a stealth rock mon but after I did some calculations it wasnt viable to use it as a rock setter, it was a bulky offensive set with hp and attack investment and it rolled over people, often being able to 1v1 a mon and then custap explode or something that went to revenge kill it. Also geodude was my first legit shiny mon (I had a shiny hariyama in a pirated ruby cartridge as my first shiny mon), I caught it in like 4-5turns and then it turned out it had selfdestruct in it's movelist so I might have lost my first shiny if I werent lucky. Despite loving Rhydon so much more- Golem will always have a special place in my heart.
Electivire and ducsknoir being ou due to new toy syndrome isnt even close to what gen 8 ou bisharp where it is so bad but it is the first mon in ou list
Charizard honestly only needs a grass move without needing the sun to be a single turn to have good use cases. General power creep is an issue but doubles can use sun weather better and heat wave spam. Megas patched this issue for Charizard.
20:30: to be honest; Magic Bounce Espeon was a scary Pokémon because of Will-O-Wisp, Toxic, Stealth Rock everywhere. And unlike Xatu: Espeon was terrifying. High speed, Ridiculous Special Attack, and respectable Special Defense. Oh yeah: and Psychic type on a timeline with fighting types everywhere.
I'm incredibly surprised that Venusaur in Gen 5 was not mentioned. It literally fainted the instant Sun was banned, yet other Pokémon with the same reasoning were mentioned instead.
@@ogmechsftw Tangrowth is number 79 in the tier, sitting in C alongside such noted good pokemon as... gengar and, mega venusaur, and breloom, and... krookodile. All of these pokemon are fringe at best and I think going from extremely used wall that needs to be accounted for on every team to "oh yeah you exist I guess, anyway I'm going to click a move with kyurem" is a falloff worthy of being mentioned
I would say Gen 3 Scizor and Gen 1 Slowbro. Both seem more like noob traps then anything. Gen 3 Scizor being a terrible option for a Baton Passer, and a set up sweeper that doesn't have anymoves to actually attack with, and the bad bulk and bad base speed often keeping it from doing whatever it was trying to do. Gen 1 Slowbro without an Amnesia boost doesn't do enough damage, and while it tries to set up with Amnesia, it runs the risk of being crit by Gen 1 Crit mechanics from Starmie, Zapdos, Jolteon, or even Tauros. Some people are even crazy enough to try Rest on it only to watch it be 1 shot by crit thunderbolt.
This video just made me realize that if Regice released later it should have gotten Refrigerate that would make its boom a better Alolan Golem that has no immunities
Victreebel in Gen 1 fell out of OU and immediately dropped to PU which is such an incomprehensible fall off but then just recently it managed to barely slip back into OU and stay off this list. it's funny that NU is more hostile to it than OU
Gen 4: "Here's a couple dozen brand spanking new evolutions, that will all drop off in usage by the next line of games." Yeah, I can't say DP wasn't the least good generation prior to the franchise's full leap into 3D.....
@@reallyawesometitle7653in my opinion it's ice (which is my favorite type, it just sucks) When regarding pokemon type, ice is horrible, and regarding moves- while ice gets stuff like blizzard and hail/snow, bugs overall have pretty good moves like pollen puff, bug buzz, u-turn, quiver dance, while ice doesn't have anything nearly as versatile as all that. Then, there's also bug centric abilities, like wonder guard (while not bug-based, it is exclusive to a bug), sheild dust is busted, blocking flinching & all secondary effects like dire claws stuff, and swarm just has general utility. Ice... Doesn't really have much. While yes, it has stuff like Aurora Veil, the consistency of ice beam, the terror of blizzard in snow, the freeze effect overall is busted, it's just my personal opinion that bugs are more versatile than ice types. TL;DR, bugs have better moves and abilities than ice, and while ice has freezing and snow, bug overall better.
@@Deerifius Ice got Aurora Veil, the defense buff from Snow and it's crazy powerful as a STAB. We just had two ice types banned in this generation's OU, Weavile and Baxcalibur. Bug only has U-turn as pretty much the best move in existence, with Quiver Dance being a status move overall untied to their bug-typing, and being nearly not enough to move like 90% of the mons that get it from being NU and below shitmons.
Ranking these in the order you did was a weird choice. Going from “Golem completely outclasses Rhydon in Gen 2” BACK in time to “Rhydon completely outclasses Golem in Gen 1” made me feel like I had a bad case of deja vu. Not to mention, starting the Golem section by referencing the Rhydon section that you haven’t gotten to yet is very confusing.
I love that despite never having played a signle game against another player, I have a surprising understanding of competitive on both the unofficial and official sides of the spectrum between FSG and Wolfe Glick's videos.
@slavkei Well, Im sorry to be the one telling you this, but no you dont understand anything. All that knowledge is just memory, if you have never played a single game in showdown, youll find that even after watching dozens of videos, that knowledge won't be cemented in your brain until you play Btw why dont you play? Its free
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Perhaps the next theorem video could be why move sets (like mix attacking, fast physical, bulky special, etc) are close to everything or the Infernape theorem
How'd you guys get away with showing emulated gameplay on a phone without getting Nintendo mad at you? I ask for my own curiosity and endeavors as a content creator trying to come back from my old channel getting destroyed from doing a SM64 playthrough with a Brian Griffin mod ;-;
yooo pocket gameplay?
FSG: "Wanna se me dunk on electivire"
*completely violates him*
*one video later*
"wanna see me do it again"
He won't stop. A shame. Electivire is one of my favorite pokemon.
Same but lets be real he fucking sucks @josephbulkin9222
@@josephbulkin9222 wire sucks so much.
Should have given a secondary fighting type, and some actual goid physical electric moves.
Such a lost opportunity.
FSG: Electivire, it's time for me to dunk on you in another video of mine.
Electivire: Yes, dear.
my baby boi…😢
At least he does better than my boy Luxray...
Electivire is FSG's punching bag
As an old DPP competitive player from the friend code Sharing days, I gotta say decades later it doesn't get old to dunk on Electivire
I still love electivire. Despite all it's downfalls after a motor drive boost it's coverage and an expert belt *can* do some late game cleaning... with prediction.
Mega Garchomp should've been on this as an honorable mention because the only reason it's never been lower than OU is because its base form outclasses it in nearly every way lmao
I say that only applies to gen 6 and gen 9 national dex ou. As mega garchomp was actually consider a pretty mon and sidegrade to reg garchomp in gen 7(mixed wallbreaker) and gen 8 national dex ou(hyper offence scale shot sweeper). And I think it didn’t get a mention because it was ranked ou by technicality, not actually ranked ou itself
the "OU by technicality" groups in Gen 4 and 5 are listed here so the last point is kinda moot
@@enderdestroyer-mr7nh why you wasting your mega slot for a sidegrade when you can just use it for straight upgrades
@@ZelongDongBecause those straight upgrades do different things and have different strengths and weaknesses. And I’m talking about gen 7, not 6 where mega aren’t the main focus of a team composition , and the opportunity cost isn’t as detrimental.
No one ever thought Mega Garchomp was actually good, though. From the very first day of XY, every single competitive player recognized that it was inferior to base Garchomp and was not a true OU threat. The Pokemon listed in this video were all considered to be actually viable in OU at some point.
The existance of OU and UU implies the existance of a much more moderate, U category.
JU/Just Used, SU/Simply Used, AU/Average Used, or CU/Commonly Used?
They call that UUBL
QU. Quasire Use
@MechaOracle Nah, UUBL ends up being used the least in the grand scheme of things
@PinkaholicOfficial woosh
Yes, that's just how it is. Gen 4 OU players just don't want to update their OU tier, that's why Electivire and Dusknoir are still stuck there to this day. They just decided the job was done and left it in this unfinished state.
The viability rankings change so much each time that Gen 4 OU is becoming more and more unrecognizable as a tier (and pointless as an introduction to playing the actual metagame).
I mean, not only that but there have been major rule changes since the generation ended such as baton pass with stat buffs and arena trap being banned. You would think they would update the tier list at least once just to reflect how the ruleset shaped the meta.
Its the reason i dont play it despite loving gen 4
They just decided a half assed tiering system was fine and i dont want to play a tier like that
Gen 4 OU unrecognizable (❌); now have Clefable (⭕). I just quitted this tier (and also Gen4UU) for how unfun to play against Clefable.
Which I still don't understand, if flipping gen 1 can have consistent developments with rises and falls. Gen 4 can do better.
Guess none of you understand how the tiering system works
Let me guess, Donphan is on the list? I still remember people trying to make it work so hard in BW despite us having a plethora of spinners that were not weak to water.
...Guilty of that early on. I just liked the idea of Donphan more than the execution.
Not going to lie, I thought Donphan was the secret sauce. Literally everything you could want on a tank. Hazard setting, spinning, phazing, and great power and coverage all on a single pokemon. You can't deny how tempting it is.
Donphan was good, I do not think it was a bad OU Pokémon until B2W2.
how was metagross in gen 4 a "noob trap" it was one of the best late game offensive pokemon with its agility set
how was metagross in gen 4 a "noob trap" it was one of the best late game offensive pokemon with its agility set but maybe there was a mistake in the script
The worst OU is what you think will be the best RU in the next two generations
Couldn’t have said it better myself
Or NU
Yeah when gen 10 introduces 20 new legendaries 😂😂
Now days Pokémon drop from OU to NU in a single gen
For the Golem segment, I would like to mention that Golem was a much better paralysis spreader than Rhydon was with Body Slam. Once it was discovered Body Slam cannot paralyze the Normal Types, then one of the other important niches Golem had over Rhydon disappeared overnight.
Rhydon doesnt learn body slam???
@@tondrone9124it does
Why? Could you explain?
@@skeetermania3202 Basically normal type moves cannot put status on normal type Pokémon. Welcome to Gen 1 Jank.
It pretty much boils down to prevent Fire types being burned from Fire move, Ice types from being frozen and electric types from being paralyzed from electric attacks they coded the game to not apply main status ailment from attacks that are the same type. So Normal types end up being immune to paralysis from Body Slam for gen one.
Rhydon learns more special moves than some normal Pokémon.
gen 1 pokemon movepools are usually wild
I remember teaching Rhydon ice punch in gen 2 and wondering why it barely scratched the opponent, before learning about types being fixed to either physical or special
Did I dream or was Surf Rhydon a legitimate strategy in Gen 1 OU?
@@AgsmaJustAgsma they had bubblebeam rhydon on rhydon to lower your opponents speed when they retreat and are incoming. But you could use Surf to attack golems and other rhydon. So you were not dreaming
I literally run Choice Specs Rhyperior to this day!
Electrivire: Why have I evolved, just to suffer?
The whole point is to give Electabuzz an Eviolite, so does Dusknoir.
@@honestshao6160 except eviolite electabuzz is not a particularly good set like dusclops
@@ogmechsftw Currently it is going off in VGC.
@@ogmechsftw follow me Electabuzz won 2 VGC regionals
Now even more, since Electabuzz got back Follow Me (once a special move from the Purified Shadow Electabuzz of Pokémon XD) and in Regulation H of VGC is one of the best supporters.
The fact that I knew Electivire was gonna be on the thumbnail makes me sad
Now the inverse of this concept: What are the Best PU/NU Pokemon?
Probably Skuntank for PU, PUn not intended. Dark/Poison is such a great typing
ninjask, quagsire, ditto
Charizard was the best NU Pokemon for like 3 gens in a row starting in the DP/P era
Florges would 100% make the list, how it hasn’t been banned from PU yet is beyond me
@@sosams I love Skuntank so much.
Regice's old idle animations from Pokemon colloseum look so bizarre, he's just doing the robot. 😂😂.
I always thought it was interesting how they made Regice move more robotically than Registeel. i feel it also kinda compliments it's cry, which out of the 3 regis is the most robot like.
It's a great example of the personality they used to put into the 3D animations. The animations from X/Y onwards are unacceptably bad in comparison.
ADV Cloyster deserves a mention here, too. Its Water/Ice typing feels like such a handicap here, and there’s almost no reason to use it as your Spikes setter over Skarmory. Even the less common Forretress has an easier time switching into physical attackers and/or pulling off a successful Rapid Spin, a move which itself Cloyster can learn but is outclassed in. If Cloyster was pure Water, that would help it a lot, but it would still face competition from at least Skarmory and Rapid Spin Starmie. In fact, we know the former to be true since pure Water Cloyster has been tried out in custom ADV mods before to noticeable success.
ADV Raikou/Regice are arguably better than ADV Cloy, even. Not a super popular opinion, but a valid one.
"try not to make fun of Electivire" challenge fucking impossible
Same with Dusknoir
It turns out that all it needed was a good physical electric move to be good. Shame it took so long to get that.
Rest in Peace BW Donphan; you woulda loved UU
I think another video like this going over the best lifelong lower tier mons in OU or Ubers would be cool. Gastrodon comes to mind.
Oddly enough, Regice has seen a renaissance in ADV OU.
On both offense and Boom Spam hyperoffense, it's not used as a tank, pivot, or or utility mon in the same way you'd imagine Swampert or Claydol.
Instead, it's used as a momentum generator, and not just for Dugtrio.
It has a simple objective:
-Come in on a special attacker
-Force them out with boltbeam coverage
-TWave whatever switches in
-If the switch-in would be immediately threatened by a setup sweeper *or* Dugtrio, blow up to guarantee the free turn or trap.
The reason this works over Snorlax is due to the mons that Regice invites in - Metagross, Tyranitar, Blissey and Lax especially.
Snorlax scares these mons away with Earthquake/Return, and is often answered by roars from Skarmory, Zapdos and Suicune.
Snorlax's Self Destruct absolutely does more damage outright, but Regice can set up a much more dangerous scenario - a double KO is fine as a trade, but a weakened, paralyzed, roarless target forces your opponent into lose-lose situations.
The strategy has a notable weakness to Gengar, defensive Rest sets, and ironically, other booms. That said, If your opponent doesn't have an option that immediately kills Regice, they're going to get boomed and either trapped or set-up on.
This approach to Regice actually saw significant use in high-level play, both in ADV Revival 2 and the Jimvitational.
As for DPP Umbreon, I might be wrong, but its OU status is likely a relic of a time Mean Look + Baton Pass was legal, and since that ban occurred after Gen 4 ended, the usage stats couldn’t be altered.
Imagine being the absolute worst pokemon in the most known tier that's gotta be like, HELL to live in.
Regice is seeing a lot of Gen 3 tournament usage right now. Its really good. I think in some tournies it saw more use than Blissey.
That's definitely not true, but regice is doing well as people realize bolt answer is essentially required. Also with how twave is becoming more broken.
If you want to learn more about the story at the top of this list, look up 'The Rock Wars', it's GENUINELY fascinating to see how this evolved and changed during the years and what finally tipped the scales.
Bro should make a 12+ hour long history of ALL competitive Pokemon. Chronological and everything, it's not one Pokemon at a time, it's one generation at a time and it covers every Pokemon ranked above untiered. It'd take probably at least a year to make but I'd watch it
Here is some other mons that could go on here:
Gen 5 & 6 Dugtrio: Very self-explanatory; the mon was busted back when Arena Trap was allowed, but after its ban, the mon became completely useless. The Arena Trap ban happened long after Gen 5 & 6 were the current gens, so Dug is trapped in complete uselessness in OU.
Gen 5 Venusuar: Also very self-explanatory; the mon was busted back when the combination of Drought + Chlorophyll was allowed, but became essentially useless after the ban, and this too happened after Gen 5 was the current gen. The only use case of Venu is to counter-team opposing Sun teams, but not only Sun teams are fairly rare, they are typically more stall oriented which Venu doesn't provide much value against.
Gen 5 Toxicroak: Was a good mon for a long while as a means of being a Fighting type mon that functions very well under permanent Rain. However, it is a mon that functions purely off of Rain due to its poor stats outside of attack, and eventually the value the mon provides starting fazing out more and more as time goes on. Currently, it is a D ranked mon in the VR and an "OU by technicality" mon by usage.
Gen 6 Raikou: The purest example of a once popular anti-meta threat; early XY had Thundurus-I and Talonflame usage be at 3000% and Raikou is an excellent check to both of those plus other mons like Mega Pinsir. However, times have not been kind to it, as both of those aforementioned mons, while still very strong, isn't as popular going into ORAS and beyond, and the tier became more dominated by mons that it doesn't fare very well against, most notably Excadrill becoming a top 2 mon in the tier alongside Clefable. It is not the worst thing you can put on a team, as a few players think it is a little better than what its C- rank in the VR says, but it definitely fells off hard and became a mediocre OU mon, earning its "OU by technicality" distinction.
Your onion, m8.
Dugtrio is lucky that Arena Trap isn't banned from ADV
Duggy is also lucky that it wasn't fully realized in Gen 4 OU until after the generation, so it can stay in UU after OU's Arena Trap ban.
Damn I didn't realize Mega Gardevoir fell off in ORAS. I always knew it was 100% outclassed from the beginning in USUM but ORAS too? Rough
Mega Metagross, Mega Lopunny and Excadrill.
Mega Gardevoir is so fragile and Mega Metagross is the fourth most used Mega, that you don't want to use your mega in a Pokémon that dies to a priority move.
Lopunny defeats Gardevoir with fake out and return and it is the most used Mega in gen 6 OU due to the fact that nothing can't resist her STABs.
Excadrill is the most used Pokémon in the tier and if gardevoir focus blast misses Gardevoir dies.
And Mega Alakazam outclassing its damage and taking the spot as better psychic mega amd second best OU Mega that outspeed and one shot Mega Lopunny doesn't help Gardevoir.
Medicham is the third most used Mega and it is a 50/50 becuase they have the same speed and Medicham defeats Gardevoir with fake out + any coverage unresisted move but if Gardevoir wins the speed tie, bye Medicham
Rip to any bad OU Pokemon in gens 4 and beyond. The playerbase just refuses to update tiers so you can’t go down to lower tiers where you could do something…
15:08 you used the wrong “were” FSG 🤓
I was looking to see if someone already commented that
My picks for Gens 6-9
Gen 6: The bad Megas that are in the tier because their base forms are good (Garchomp, Latios, and Tyranitar).
Gen 7: Gengar. It was OU for a long time because of pure cope.
Gen 8: Seismitoad. Because of the dex cut, this garbage was somehow OU before the DLC.
Gen 9: Serperior. Quite possibly the most overhyped Pokémon since Vire and Dusknoir; it went from being considered broken in OU to being an alright UU Pokémon.
Tbf to toad, that was dracovish meta and water absorb meant instant viability.
Seismitoad was used in pre-DLC because is one of the two things (the other is Gastrodon) that can switch into Dracovish without dying.
Yes, you need an immunity to switch into Dracovish. With rain or a bit of chip damage the Choice Band can easily smash even Ferrothorn or Toxapex in two hits.
Still, I'd say Seismitoad is the poster child for how the dex cut made complete jank viable, simply because of how limited the options were.
@@PokeTom-y4r You can't complain about a Pokemon's position in a tier being wrong if you also admit that it's viable in that tier...
This video kinda reminds me of old FSG, where Gen 6 was barely out and analyses were basically “You’re OU+ or you suck”.
That was before the Power Creep went off the rails and everyone had somewhat of a shot.
Now. Just being not Untiered is competitive success.
Tbf, "OU or you suck" is basically how competitive feels nowadays.
Uh, no
I remember Vaporeon terrorizing mixed attacking teams I used to play. If you were counting on LO Infernape or Salamanca to wall break through, Vaporeon was literally the worst thing to see hit the field. In a world without Mixmence though, walls are just much more free to specialize, cover each other, and be more turned to the fewer threats of the modern meta. You don’t need Vappy in a post-Mence world.
I’ll never understand why Golem LOST Rapid Spin. It just makes sense
for #2 -- iirc, espeon's magic bounce in baton pass was a key part of *why* smogon banned BP, so it was party to its own reason to be removed out of OU.
I remember running an assault vest raikou.
Nothing like a special tank that can outspeed most pokemon in BW.
Why dusknoir doesn’t get recover is beyond me
What about the best ou pokemon across the entire series? The most reliable pick no matter what game you play?
Depending on the gen, ttar, ferrothorn, or garchomp.
I think it's pretty easily Magearna
It’s TTar. It was a top ranked Pokemon for 7 generations in a row and despite being UU in Gen 9 right now it still has a real OU niche. He’s a unit.
Zapdos. It's been OU in every gen except V and it's always at least decent.
Why being one level lower sometimes matters The Groudon theorem
There once was a play with groudon and trick room where you actually preferred it to be one level lower than the level cap (49 instead of 50) that ensures to avoid a speed tie if the same had the same level which was by the same iv investment much more common yet being one level lower isn‘t siginifant enough to be a actual threat against other effective attacks
I'm gonna assume Dusknoir is going to be pretty high here.
Possibly the dirtiest done new evolution for any Pokemon.
I still love Raikou. It's my favorite Legendary Beast & electric type pokemon.
Oh great, more Electivire and Dusknoir slander
forgot how good Golem was in competitive GSC
"Regice can't spam Explosion" tbf no one can 😂
21:10 it’s ok its great great great great great great great great grandfather revenged him
15:35 Fisdunction in 2024 reference.
based
@@Fisdunction Did not expect that to happen in 2024 either.
ELECTIVIRE IN THE THUMBNAIL! LET’S GOOOO!
Gen I Vitreebel and Lapras are probably great picks for the next video on this topic
Dear current gen players, stop spamming Meow on ladder, that thing fits into this video and gen 9 isn’t even over
@@Rarest26 Hey, authoritarian, we don’t have to listen to you.
Learn what authoritarian means before using it please
SO REAL lmao, at least just give up the boots set. Boots is worse weav on hstack, scarf is the only real niche it has.
@@SPZ-gv2onBand is decent too! I mean, it's not great, don't get me wrong, but it breaks most fat mons not named Moltres and it's super fast for the role. A Band Meow with Flower Trick/Knock Off/Sucker Punch/U-turn is pretty workable on some sorta offense I'd say
wooooo golem finally won something! .... wait
Gen 5 venusaur. After sun got gutted its now stuck in a tier in no longer fits in and has no reason to be in OU without sun.
Thumbnail game is so strong
The teiring mentioned in this video makes me feel less confused about Scar/Vi's tiers. For example: What do you mean Zapdos-G, Zoroark-H,Goodra-H, and Lilligant-H are all in RU while Donphan, Comfey, Lokix, and Slowking are in UU? (This is using the current tiers as of posting this comment)
Day 61 of asking how good was Cresselia actually
Dude. Eletivire's only problem is that it lacks a good STAB option. Just give it Plasma Fist (Zeraora's signature move) and Close Combat; problem solved. In fact, Plasma Fist needs to be distributed anyway. It's an awesome move that's gone to waste *FOR 5+ YEARS* because it's stuck on a pokemon that would likely be amazing, but GF won't let us use (poor mythicals). It's been long enough; it's time to let everyone else have a turn and here's every pokemon who should learn it: Pawmot, Iron Hands, Eelektross, and Thundarus. These pokemon should learn Plasma Fist because it would be a massive boon and/or it makes thematic/logical sense with their lore and anatomy. I think the list of potential users should be limited to only electric types and even then, it should be relatively small (think fire types with Eruption).
They’re not going to give away what makes a Mythical so special and unique (their signature move). And Electivire would still suck with good stab because it’s still too slow, frail and having weak af coverage.
Well historicly blissey and chansey held the title of ou until GF and TPCI's poor practices for gutted her.
Wow, a sponsor that is relevant and interesting!
hooray for not having to hear about the narrators balls for once! 🎉
Golem may be the worst OU Pokemon of all time, but it was still a badass who helped 7 year old me defeat Red Version for the first time so the rocky boi has a special place in my heart
You’d think regarding DPP and BW that the smogon teams would forcibly drop those pokemon to UU with an extra stipulation that they can’t be brought back up to OU. Maybe devote two years to reopening the balance forums regarding those pokemon. If they’re good in UU, they stay there, too strong, put them back in BL, not doing anything, let them drop to RU/NU. Treat is the same way the Advanced Scyther clause was treated.
Imagine being a legendary that's outclassed by an Eevee Evolution. That's Raikou for you.
as much as i like regice these days i find it better to use it alongside zard and claydol as a tankier alternative to offensive gengar and not really anywhere else
Hoping for a return to the open mic video format, I loved those vids!
It's funny. I don't understand any of these acronyms for competitive or what's good or bad, but I still enjoy the videos lol
incredible support from Quetzalcoatlus northropi, truly one of the patrons of all time
Seeing my boy jolteon twice in a row hurts
I had a fairly good time with Vaporeon on my weatherless gen 5 team. Particularly to pass wishes to multiscale Dragonite, helping to switch into him tank a hit with multiscale, then heal him back up to have multiscale again next turn to Dragon Dance with. Keeping status effects off with heal bell and overall keeping the rest of the squad healthy was neat too. Particularly Magnezone, as Ferrothorn was the most common switch into Vaporeon.
Forretress, Vaporeon, Porygon2 and Skarmory made the core to slowly wear the enemy team down, Magnezone was used to trap steel types and Sub/Roost/DD/DClaw Dragonite to clean up, though I sometimes used Gengar to spin block and overall be a nuisance with sub+pain split. Max HP adamant choice band Scizor too because he was just good overall and yet another pokemon that benefited from Vaporeon wishes.
When I got my RUclips Gaming rewind it told me I was in the top 0.2% of your channels watchers, and that I watch your channel 25x more then the average person. I WONDER if I should get the Patreon.
Golem was my ace in gen IV tournament play (before world championships were established in my region), with custap berry, sucker punch and explosion. Many people expected it to be a stealth rock mon but after I did some calculations it wasnt viable to use it as a rock setter, it was a bulky offensive set with hp and attack investment and it rolled over people, often being able to 1v1 a mon and then custap explode or something that went to revenge kill it.
Also geodude was my first legit shiny mon (I had a shiny hariyama in a pirated ruby cartridge as my first shiny mon), I caught it in like 4-5turns and then it turned out it had selfdestruct in it's movelist so I might have lost my first shiny if I werent lucky. Despite loving Rhydon so much more- Golem will always have a special place in my heart.
Could add ORAS OU Talonflame to the list too
I would like to see the list be based off each generation.
Electivire and ducsknoir being ou due to new toy syndrome isnt even close to what gen 8 ou bisharp where it is so bad but it is the first mon in ou list
I think it's Charizard, and I really think that Charizard needs more buffs or forms from Gamefreak, as he has been out of the spotlight for too long.
Mega Charizard Z
@@sonitsahay2743Don’t forget Mega Charizard A.
Gigantamax mega charizard XY
Charizard honestly only needs a grass move without needing the sun to be a single turn to have good use cases. General power creep is an issue but doubles can use sun weather better and heat wave spam.
Megas patched this issue for Charizard.
Charizard was only OU for the generations that Charizard X was a thing.
The friends we dropped along the way.
do " how GOOD was 100 base speed ACTUALLY".
Leave my child alone
20:30: to be honest; Magic Bounce Espeon was a scary Pokémon because of Will-O-Wisp, Toxic, Stealth Rock everywhere. And unlike Xatu: Espeon was terrifying. High speed, Ridiculous Special Attack, and respectable Special Defense. Oh yeah: and Psychic type on a timeline with fighting types everywhere.
Kingambit for sure
Why? It's been Top 2 since Gen 9s start and it's still there
He’s being sarcastic
Crazy how the Gen 1 rivalry ended up with Rhydon on top only for Golem to show up next generation and take Rhydons spot
I'm incredibly surprised that Venusaur in Gen 5 was not mentioned. It literally fainted the instant Sun was banned, yet other Pokémon with the same reasoning were mentioned instead.
R.I.P Golem
You got something against Dusknoir or Electivire? Every video that mentions them, you cant stop dumping on them.
I’d argue for Gen 7 tangrowth, considering that it’s been said that any analysis mentioning it is outdated
it def aint so bad to make it on a list like this tbh. i still see it used from time to time on high ladder
@ dude fell like 20+ places on the VR
@@LordBeau to what, C+? that doesn't mean it deserves a spot on the biggest list of flunkies
@@ogmechsftw Tangrowth is number 79 in the tier, sitting in C alongside such noted good pokemon as... gengar and, mega venusaur, and breloom, and... krookodile. All of these pokemon are fringe at best and I think going from extremely used wall that needs to be accounted for on every team to "oh yeah you exist I guess, anyway I'm going to click a move with kyurem" is a falloff worthy of being mentioned
I would have put mega garchomp, the only reason it’s even OU is because garchomp is
I used to pilote a Espeon during BW2 . What rly ended it's viability was te ban of sleep
Jolteon and Vaporeon appearing 2 times on this video. 😅
Can you do this for every tier
I would say Gen 3 Scizor and Gen 1 Slowbro. Both seem more like noob traps then anything.
Gen 3 Scizor being a terrible option for a Baton Passer, and a set up sweeper that doesn't have anymoves to actually attack with, and the bad bulk and bad base speed often keeping it from doing whatever it was trying to do.
Gen 1 Slowbro without an Amnesia boost doesn't do enough damage, and while it tries to set up with Amnesia, it runs the risk of being crit by Gen 1 Crit mechanics from Starmie, Zapdos, Jolteon, or even Tauros. Some people are even crazy enough to try Rest on it only to watch it be 1 shot by crit thunderbolt.
Now we need the opposite end of the spectrum: Top Five Best PU Pokemon of All Time.
Gen 6 Azelf cheesed it’s way into a spot in OU at the end of the generation
This video just made me realize that if Regice released later it should have gotten Refrigerate that would make its boom a better Alolan Golem that has no immunities
Victreebel in Gen 1 fell out of OU and immediately dropped to PU which is such an incomprehensible fall off but then just recently it managed to barely slip back into OU and stay off this list. it's funny that NU is more hostile to it than OU
Gen 1 has such an odd viability since there are just 151 pokemon a mon can be used in multiple teirs
Finally! FSG is promoting a real GAMER phone for the pro GAMER!
I'm GAMED up, I can GAMER away the competition, and be a real true pro GAMER
I love T-Tar but that 4x fighting weakness is brutal
Jolteon usurps Raikou in gen 3, Raikou usurps Jolteon in gen 4. Life is at balance.
Gen 4: "Here's a couple dozen brand spanking new evolutions, that will all drop off in usage by the next line of games."
Yeah, I can't say DP wasn't the least good generation prior to the franchise's full leap into 3D.....
"What the worst type" could be a good vid
Bug. Video saved
@@reallyawesometitle7653in my opinion it's ice (which is my favorite type, it just sucks)
When regarding pokemon type, ice is horrible, and regarding moves- while ice gets stuff like blizzard and hail/snow, bugs overall have pretty good moves like pollen puff, bug buzz, u-turn, quiver dance, while ice doesn't have anything nearly as versatile as all that. Then, there's also bug centric abilities, like wonder guard (while not bug-based, it is exclusive to a bug), sheild dust is busted, blocking flinching & all secondary effects like dire claws stuff, and swarm just has general utility. Ice... Doesn't really have much. While yes, it has stuff like Aurora Veil, the consistency of ice beam, the terror of blizzard in snow, the freeze effect overall is busted, it's just my personal opinion that bugs are more versatile than ice types.
TL;DR, bugs have better moves and abilities than ice, and while ice has freezing and snow, bug overall better.
Nah, it’s bug. Ice counters Dragon and has hail. Bug has so much less.
@@Deerifius Ice got Aurora Veil, the defense buff from Snow and it's crazy powerful as a STAB. We just had two ice types banned in this generation's OU, Weavile and Baxcalibur. Bug only has U-turn as pretty much the best move in existence, with Quiver Dance being a status move overall untied to their bug-typing, and being nearly not enough to move like 90% of the mons that get it from being NU and below shitmons.
@@AyuNico Ice is offensive and bug is utility, I just happen to prefer overall utility
I feel bad for Golem. I am glad he made a comeback in gen 2.
Ranking these in the order you did was a weird choice. Going from “Golem completely outclasses Rhydon in Gen 2” BACK in time to “Rhydon completely outclasses Golem in Gen 1” made me feel like I had a bad case of deja vu. Not to mention, starting the Golem section by referencing the Rhydon section that you haven’t gotten to yet is very confusing.
Jolteon having an actual use over raikou is not something i thought id ever hear
I love that despite never having played a signle game against another player, I have a surprising understanding of competitive on both the unofficial and official sides of the spectrum between FSG and Wolfe Glick's videos.
u mean a game of singles? like u only play doubles?
@@lordinfernape4753 I've never played any game against another player period. I learn about singles from FSG and VGC from Wolfe Glick.
@slavkei Well, Im sorry to be the one telling you this, but no you dont understand anything. All that knowledge is just memory, if you have never played a single game in showdown, youll find that even after watching dozens of videos, that knowledge won't be cemented in your brain until you play
Btw why dont you play? Its free
@@lordinfernape4753 Not the best trolling attempt I've seen, but not a bad one, I give it a 2/5.
@@slavkei aint no trollin, nothing is stopping you from playing
*BLASTOISE REMAKE WHEN*