Because the new transducer was glued to the old one, the impedance of the transducer no longer matches. The aluminum head piece and the steel back piece on both sides of the piezos reflect exactly 1/4 of the wave length. Due to the sound speed difference in aluminum and steel, the two pieces are of different lengths. Thus, the energy is consumed internally inside the transducer, which, of course, resulted in a "not working" scenario.
I have similar ultrasonic cleaner made by Kendal that uses two 60w transducers @ 42 kHz and actually had a successful repair on mine. What happened was the tank became pitted and began leaking, so after dismantling, i replaced the tub with a new stainless steel steam tray with the appropriate dimensions. Then the problem i faced was transferring the transducers since they didn't want to be separated from the old tub. I ended up grinding the bottom of the tub until the center point of the tranducer was visible, and it turns out there is a stubby threaded bolt welded to the bottom of the tub, and adhesive is applied to the bottom of the transducer, then threaded onto the bolt till tightly flush against the bottom of the tub. I managed to extract the old bolt out of the transducer but since i didn't have the means of welding stainless steel, i just JB Welded the transducers onto the tank and let cure for a week before powering it up. It actually worked, though it's not quite as strong as before. When it was new, it perforated aluminum foil. almost instantly. Now it takes a bit more time. Probably because the new tank is slightly thicker than the original and the added mass of the JB weld.
According to my previous(unsuccessful) experience with ultrasonic stuff, I know, that even torque of transducer bolt can significantly alter the resonance frequency of the system, thus leaving a piece of old transducer in here was no-go. Acoustic engineering is scary-hard.
This Old Tony did a video about half a year ago about the mechanical side of ultrasonic cleaners. Having watched that, I'm not surprised your attempts didn't work. This stuff is has to be very well engineered on the mechanical end to work properly.
Nice to see it’s not just me that has struggled with these UC drivers/transducers. I was also mystified by the odd circuit since I purchased a couple drivers and transducers essentially identical to yours, so seeing the reverse engineered circuit was very helpful, thanks! I got 40KHz and 28KHz versions to try out and it was not obvious what the difference was between the two drivers, though from your schematic it is probably likely to be controlled more by the transducers than a significant part change. BTW as others have mentioned you have probably damaged your transducer by running it dry, these things operate at near destructive resonance when in-situ and without being coupled to a load it’s probably not very healthy at this point. Who knows, but it’s definitely not going to work without removing the old section of the transducer.
I just heated mine up with a hot air gun from inside the bath, to melt the adhesive then unscrewed it from the unit using grips, it came out in one piece, screwed in the new one with new adhesive and it works fine.
Thank you. Building a big one from off the shelf "Leggo" parts with nothing but fundamental concepts and your reverse engineering of the same boards was helpful !
I too have had similar issues and similar failures trying to repair my cleaner. I replaced my transducer and it is sort of working but not to the level required, its buzzing but very slight. I did replace the whole transducer and re-glued the unit the the tank but the original did have a small spot weld also which I was not able to repeat so I suspect Yi You below is correct and these are very sensitive. It would be very interesting to know how they manufacture these tanks so they work, there must be something they do to ensure resonance I guess. Good video though thanks, always nice to know you are not the only one who fails from time to time
I’ve found your video helpful, at least. You’ve dismantled the broken driver, revealing what the inside of it looks like. That is of some value, without a doubt. The positive terminal is meant to be the one with it’s disc suspended in the center with the rubbery insulation above and below it, and the negative goes to the part closer still to the pan, with the cone’s diameter getting larger as it reaches towards the pan, no? I suspect that originally those terminals were wired the wrong way around or else like you were keen to notice, the driver board seems to be sensitive and particularly stubborn if the parts are different from those intended for it. My kit arrived today, hence I’ve found your video here. THANK YOU FOR SHARING! THANK YOU STILL FOR SHARING THE FAILURE, AS THIS IS SERIOUSLY REALITY! Everyone fails, and they who fail more sail more!
Indeed this has been plenty helpful for me in my endeavors. Although I now have a properly working arrangement for cleaning flux off of my PCBs, I cannot say just how come its in order, as I have been mindful of every possible consideration. Here's a few important reasons why I haven't gone and broke my transducers. One, they should NEVER be powered to run dry, unmounted, or without load. Because as stated, the solder beads themselves were fragmenting from the energy of vibrations alone. There are warnings that state the tub should be filled to a minimum before powering on. Place a loose transducer near to your fish aquarium and turn it on, see what could happen left free to shake about! Also the polarity here is crucial. The center tab is positive, the more outside tab (either above or below) is the negative. Active cooling might be necessary, and this shouldn't be left running for over thirty maybe forty minutes. I haven't run mine over fifteen minutes yet, to be safe. This video is the best most closest document to a helpful hint on these transducers. There's a whole range of experiments worth trying out on a boring weekend that this video has helped me contemplate. Volume and type of cleaning fluid. Placement of transducer element. The frequencies of the 'cavitation' patterns in the fluid when filled to different depths. Differently shaped tubs, with greater or lesser volumes. Also it's probably wise to note that the items to be cleaned should be suspended in middle of tub, not allowed to just sink and rest at bottom of tub. That's all I've got, but it's very much thanks to this video that I ever even got the courage to switch mine on. THANKS AGAIN!!
I've seen many videos where people used a electric sander as a transducer to shake a plastic bucket. From my findings however the frequency of the transducer does half the work and the other half is the shaking. My idea for a home brew model is using a 555 Timer or even a function generator can be used and use it to input a 20 to 400KHz tone into a modified amplified mono speaker that has the cone removed and a bolt epoxied to the voice coil and a brace going across the basket (kinda like a DIY tactical transducer). The transducer can be mounted on the bottom of a metal food service pan or a thin stainless pot. Reason for this idea from my findings it seems to take Mains voltage that is 50/60Hz and converts it to 20/400KHz. However this could be done with a low voltage option outputting the same 20/400KHz frequency.
The mechanical resonance must match the electrical drive frequency. The mechanical resonance changes as material is added or removed. You might measure the mechanical resonance after installation and then modify the drive board to match. Use VERY low power when driving at no load or you will kill the piezoelectrics.
Dude ! .... You might not have like the failure of this fix attempt ..... but , I am a newbie at ultrasonics and YOUR Video has given me the BEST insight to what comprises of an ultrasound HORN ! Thank You Thank You Thank You !!!👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻😎😎😎🤓🤓🤓🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
This is a really interesting video that might interest you. It shows to me its not just a simple case of putting anew transducer in, it needs to be tuned. I can see any variable tuning in my cleaner or your circuit but I suspect that is going to be required to change the transducer. In principle the circuit you put up should vary to the peak current but maybe its out of range, I dont know but I am going to investigate with mine. I have a nice new scope and arbitrary waveform generator turning up this month and this will be my first test.
I have never had any luck repairing these things when they get weak. Changed the transceivers and cleaned the surface to no avail. I never want to see one of these miserable time wasters again. I refuse all of them now. Transducer work is very tricky and the oscillators make too much smoke. This is my most hated device. They all deserve a lengthy treatment with a heavy duty 10kg Widlarizer.
Thanks. Yes, working on amplifier. Just destroyed one MOSFET - too much power for ferrite transformer, and it goes in deep saturation. The problem is that I can repair it, but no spare parts (IRFZ44). Oh, well...
Your mistake was powering the circuit outside of it being attached to the bottom of the tub and without liquids. That damages the working end rendering the whole device useless.
Bought an ultra sound cleaner many years ago. First time unbox the gadget was exciting. So I plugged in the machine. It gives off some ultrasound. Next I pour in some water to test. It was kind of work, but the power seems low. Then I noticed a warning label that says, "do not operate the machine without filling water". Days later, I opened the machine to take a look. The donut shaped Piezo crystal cracked at a chord off-centre roughly 1/4 of the circle.
Well u gave up way too easily. That resonator circuit is pretty clever. Always at right frequency. U should fix that and maybe add some current limit or thermal protection.
I have a small Harbor Freight UC with a cracked transducer. It lasted me several years. I used it to deep clean my dental night guard once a week. How can I tell what frequency the transducer is and where can I purchase a replacement transducer? There are no markings on the broken transducer.
Hi, I am currently working on branson USC. Where you said no driver should be turn on without a load (transducer) what does it mean? The branson i am working on has no IC's mosfets gate is driven by LRC. Thank you.
Hi. Nice video! What is the material "connecting" the ultrasonic transducer to the metallic base? Solder? I have one that is broken. I wounder if it is solder or some kind of ceramic material. My transducer broke and fell off, I'm wondering how to put it back in place again.
Its a type of epoxy. Some expensive units use a thin sheet epoxy that must remain refrigerated prior to application. Other companies use a product called AB Glue seen here: www.ultra-piezo.com/Products/ultrasonic-transducer/ultrasonic-transducer-of-ab-glue.html I used JB weld on mine. it worked.
Hi there! We've got an MF2000 from Elma. Do you possibly have repair guides, diagramms or sources we can refer to? Appreciate any help! Best regards, Cor
Defekten Cleaner gekauft, versucht die Treiberplatine zu ersetzen, ging auch nicht, versucht den Wandler zu ersetzen, aber ein Teil von dem Alten ließ sich nicht ablösen, erstmal alles auf die lange Bank geschoben :)
Because the new transducer was glued to the old one, the impedance of the transducer no longer matches. The aluminum head piece and the steel back piece on both sides of the piezos reflect exactly 1/4 of the wave length. Due to the sound speed difference in aluminum and steel, the two pieces are of different lengths. Thus, the energy is consumed internally inside the transducer, which, of course, resulted in a "not working" scenario.
Failure videos are always helpful. Reminds us that it's part of the hobby!
I have similar ultrasonic cleaner made by Kendal that uses two 60w transducers @ 42 kHz and actually had a successful repair on mine. What happened was the tank became pitted and began leaking, so after dismantling, i replaced the tub with a new stainless steel steam tray with the appropriate dimensions. Then the problem i faced was transferring the transducers since they didn't want to be separated from the old tub. I ended up grinding the bottom of the tub until the center point of the tranducer was visible, and it turns out there is a stubby threaded bolt welded to the bottom of the tub, and adhesive is applied to the bottom of the transducer, then threaded onto the bolt till tightly flush against the bottom of the tub. I managed to extract the old bolt out of the transducer but since i didn't have the means of welding stainless steel, i just JB Welded the transducers onto the tank and let cure for a week before powering it up. It actually worked, though it's not quite as strong as before. When it was new, it perforated aluminum foil. almost instantly. Now it takes a bit more time. Probably because the new tank is slightly thicker than the original and the added mass of the JB weld.
According to my previous(unsuccessful) experience with ultrasonic stuff, I know, that even torque of transducer bolt can significantly alter the resonance frequency of the system, thus leaving a piece of old transducer in here was no-go. Acoustic engineering is scary-hard.
This Old Tony did a video about half a year ago about the mechanical side of ultrasonic cleaners. Having watched that, I'm not surprised your attempts didn't work. This stuff is has to be very well engineered on the mechanical end to work properly.
Nice to see it’s not just me that has struggled with these UC drivers/transducers. I was also mystified by the odd circuit since I purchased a couple drivers and transducers essentially identical to yours, so seeing the reverse engineered circuit was very helpful, thanks! I got 40KHz and 28KHz versions to try out and it was not obvious what the difference was between the two drivers, though from your schematic it is probably likely to be controlled more by the transducers than a significant part change. BTW as others have mentioned you have probably damaged your transducer by running it dry, these things operate at near destructive resonance when in-situ and without being coupled to a load it’s probably not very healthy at this point. Who knows, but it’s definitely not going to work without removing the old section of the transducer.
I learned a few things from your video and the comments people have made over the years. Thanks for uploading it.
I just heated mine up with a hot air gun from inside the bath, to melt the adhesive then unscrewed it from the unit using grips, it came out in one piece, screwed in the new one with new adhesive and it works fine.
Thank you. Building a big one from off the shelf "Leggo" parts with nothing but fundamental concepts and your reverse engineering of the same boards was helpful !
I too have had similar issues and similar failures trying to repair my cleaner. I replaced my transducer and it is sort of working but not to the level required, its buzzing but very slight. I did replace the whole transducer and re-glued the unit the the tank but the original did have a small spot weld also which I was not able to repeat so I suspect Yi You below is correct and these are very sensitive. It would be very interesting to know how they manufacture these tanks so they work, there must be something they do to ensure resonance I guess. Good video though thanks, always nice to know you are not the only one who fails from time to time
I’ve found your video helpful, at least. You’ve dismantled the broken driver, revealing what the inside of it looks like. That is of some value, without a doubt. The positive terminal is meant to be the one with it’s disc suspended in the center with the rubbery insulation above and below it, and the negative goes to the part closer still to the pan, with the cone’s diameter getting larger as it reaches towards the pan, no? I suspect that originally those terminals were wired the wrong way around or else like you were keen to notice, the driver board seems to be sensitive and particularly stubborn if the parts are different from those intended for it. My kit arrived today, hence I’ve found your video here. THANK YOU FOR SHARING! THANK YOU STILL FOR SHARING THE FAILURE, AS THIS IS SERIOUSLY REALITY! Everyone fails, and they who fail more sail more!
Indeed this has been plenty helpful for me in my endeavors. Although I now have a properly working arrangement for cleaning flux off of my PCBs, I cannot say just how come its in order, as I have been mindful of every possible consideration. Here's a few important reasons why I haven't gone and broke my transducers. One, they should NEVER be powered to run dry, unmounted, or without load. Because as stated, the solder beads themselves were fragmenting from the energy of vibrations alone. There are warnings that state the tub should be filled to a minimum before powering on. Place a loose transducer near to your fish aquarium and turn it on, see what could happen left free to shake about! Also the polarity here is crucial. The center tab is positive, the more outside tab (either above or below) is the negative. Active cooling might be necessary, and this shouldn't be left running for over thirty maybe forty minutes. I haven't run mine over fifteen minutes yet, to be safe. This video is the best most closest document to a helpful hint on these transducers. There's a whole range of experiments worth trying out on a boring weekend that this video has helped me contemplate. Volume and type of cleaning fluid. Placement of transducer element. The frequencies of the 'cavitation' patterns in the fluid when filled to different depths. Differently shaped tubs, with greater or lesser volumes. Also it's probably wise to note that the items to be cleaned should be suspended in middle of tub, not allowed to just sink and rest at bottom of tub. That's all I've got, but it's very much thanks to this video that I ever even got the courage to switch mine on. THANKS AGAIN!!
I've seen many videos where people used a electric sander as a transducer to shake a plastic bucket. From my findings however the frequency of the transducer does half the work and the other half is the shaking. My idea for a home brew model is using a 555 Timer or even a function generator can be used and use it to input a 20 to 400KHz tone into a modified amplified mono speaker that has the cone removed and a bolt epoxied to the voice coil and a brace going across the basket (kinda like a DIY tactical transducer). The transducer can be mounted on the bottom of a metal food service pan or a thin stainless pot. Reason for this idea from my findings it seems to take Mains voltage that is 50/60Hz and converts it to 20/400KHz. However this could be done with a low voltage option outputting the same 20/400KHz frequency.
The mechanical resonance must match the electrical drive frequency. The mechanical resonance changes as material is added or removed. You might measure the mechanical resonance after installation and then modify the drive board to match.
Use VERY low power when driving at no load or you will kill the piezoelectrics.
Dude ! .... You might not have like the failure of this fix attempt ..... but , I am a newbie at ultrasonics and YOUR Video has given me the BEST insight to what comprises of an ultrasound HORN ! Thank You Thank You Thank You !!!👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻😎😎😎🤓🤓🤓🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
This is a really interesting video that might interest you. It shows to me its not just a simple case of putting anew transducer in, it needs to be tuned. I can see any variable tuning in my cleaner or your circuit but I suspect that is going to be required to change the transducer. In principle the circuit you put up should vary to the peak current but maybe its out of range, I dont know but I am going to investigate with mine. I have a nice new scope and arbitrary waveform generator turning up this month and this will be my first test.
Idiot! you need to actually put in the url ruclips.net/video/-E7zlQEk5MA/видео.html
I bought one for repairs. I took it apart without testing, then tested, it worked. It was just a soldering point
I have never had any luck repairing these things when they get weak.
Changed the transceivers and cleaned the surface to no avail.
I never want to see one of these miserable time wasters again.
I refuse all of them now.
Transducer work is very tricky and the oscillators make too much smoke.
This is my most hated device. They all deserve a lengthy treatment with a heavy duty 10kg Widlarizer.
Probably L1 is not connected as you draw. This coil serves as serial inductance load to get highr voltage on the transducer and impedance matching.
Hey, cool to see you here! I just stumbled across one of your ultrasonic speaker videos incidentally
Thanks. Yes, working on amplifier. Just destroyed one MOSFET - too much power for ferrite transformer, and it goes in deep saturation. The problem is that I can repair it, but no spare parts (IRFZ44). Oh, well...
@@MilanKarakas u r a legend
You are the hero we need!
Could you have taken the new one apart and mount those parts on the old base?
How it's removed if it's glued
You're right not much about these ultrasonic devices is on the internet.
Your mistake was powering the circuit outside of it being attached to the bottom of the tub and without liquids. That damages the working end rendering the whole device useless.
Bought an ultra sound cleaner many years ago.
First time unbox the gadget was exciting. So I plugged in the machine. It gives off some ultrasound.
Next I pour in some water to test. It was kind of work, but the power seems low.
Then I noticed a warning label that says, "do not operate the machine without filling water".
Days later, I opened the machine to take a look.
The donut shaped Piezo crystal cracked at a chord off-centre roughly 1/4 of the circle.
Failures are always the best teachers
Well u gave up way too easily. That resonator circuit is pretty clever. Always at right frequency. U should fix that and maybe add some current limit or thermal protection.
you should check the capacitance of the old transducer before removing...tells a lot about the conductivity if there is a crack piezeo...
Hello,
is there a way to check if the old transducer is functional without driving it?
I have a small Harbor Freight UC with a cracked transducer. It lasted me several years. I used it to deep clean my dental night guard once a week. How can I tell what frequency the transducer is and where can I purchase a replacement transducer? There are no markings on the broken transducer.
Is the little PCB at 08:04 (where you put your finger on) a selfmade PSU for the Proxxon Tool?
RSOFT92 yes, if I remember correctly that motor takes rectified unregulated voltage so that the thyristor-based speed control works
Hi, I am currently working on branson USC. Where you said no driver should be turn on without a load (transducer) what does it mean? The branson i am working on has no IC's mosfets gate is driven by LRC.
Thank you.
Hola,necesito la placa del panel digital,tendras tu o de donde compro
learned a lot, some of it was what not to do, thank you.
Hi. Nice video! What is the material "connecting" the ultrasonic transducer to the metallic base? Solder?
I have one that is broken. I wounder if it is solder or some kind of ceramic material. My transducer broke and fell off, I'm wondering how to put it back in place again.
Its a type of epoxy. Some expensive units use a thin sheet epoxy that must remain refrigerated prior to application. Other companies use a product called AB Glue seen here: www.ultra-piezo.com/Products/ultrasonic-transducer/ultrasonic-transducer-of-ab-glue.html
I used JB weld on mine. it worked.
Hi there! We've got an MF2000 from Elma. Do you possibly have repair guides, diagramms or sources we can refer to? Appreciate any help! Best regards, Cor
Are you Great Scott?!
You must not run the transducer dry. Will draw too much current and cook the board.
The videos are even better (read: funnier), when you are on drugs! xD
Thanks for sharing!
Can I run two 60W transducers in parallel with a board designed to supply 100W?
thanks for your work it was very helpfull for mee cheers!
Where can we get complete power board to buy
Kann der neue Transducer nicht auch auseinander gebaut werden. Dann könntest Du den alten Sockel drinnen lassen und nur die Piezoelemente tauschen.
Do you have genarator circuit or gerber files ? Thanks
Thank you very much - great stuff!
which model of power supply you use?
hi, can you share with me schematics and mounting instructions you have? I purchase diy kit, but without any manual. I will be appreciate.
hello, what is the outout voltage ?
whats the voltage of the output wave?
feels good
Interessantes Video. Hab aber nicht genau verstanden, was schief gegangen ist.
Defekten Cleaner gekauft, versucht die Treiberplatine zu ersetzen, ging auch nicht, versucht den Wandler zu ersetzen, aber ein Teil von dem Alten ließ sich nicht ablösen, erstmal alles auf die lange Bank geschoben :)
That video was transducent. :D
que pegante uso para pegar en el metal?
Mine comes on for 4seconds then off
why my ultrasonic suddenly stop vibrating? what might be the causes of this problem?
Erg jammer dat dit niet gelukt is.
ruclips.net/video/O35JuWe1lH0/видео.htmlm27s
Add proper cooling you your driver board...