I agree. Even though now in HD you can see all the flaws you could not see on your small black and white TV screen, I still am impressed by what they were able to achieve. Especially after watching the documentaries on "Roddenberry's vault" where they talk about the technical problems they had
One of the best is the matte they use at the beginning of "Dagger of the Mind". You know it's fake, but I challenge anyone to find the border between the matte and the rest of the image. The same or similar mattes are seen in several other episodes.
I know this is about the effects, but Kirk's last line -- "Let's get the hell out of here" -- was very powerful, back in those days where even mild epithets such as "hell" were rarely if ever heard on American TV. I still remember how struck I was by it. A terrific episode.
In general words like hell had to contribute to the story. The gateway put Kirk in a position where he had to act out of his character, in order to fix the damage caused to time. "Hell" is a powerful statement for the end of this episode. By far the darkest end of any Star Trek episode.
Yes, you'll notice that in most episodes they say things like, "To the devil with that..." and "What the blazes..." instead of Hell. Bones' signature phrase, "Damn it Jim!" didn't come along until the movies. No way they could say that in the show.
Daniel Strain or Kirk telling Kang to go to the devil instead of hell. whatever would 60s television audiences delicate sensibilities think of Game of thrones or breaking bad?
johnmburt1960 we have Harlan Ellison to thank for writing this episode of “Star Trek.” The final episode was rewritten by Gene L. Coon, D.C. Fontana and Gene Roddenberry himself, but Harlan was the only one credited despite the fact that only 1/5 of what he wrote made it in. Despite all of that, “The City on the Edge of Forever” is still credited as the #1 episode of the original series of “Star Trek.”
this is my favourite episode of Star Trek, I remember seeing it back in 1969, I was a child, but it had a lasting effect on me, even as an 8 year old I understood the tragedy and pain Kirk suffered in this story. I still like to watch it now, such a poignant episode, so thanks for sharing this comparison, I do have the series on blu ray of course, the updated effects certainly add something...they are an improvement for sure.
That “get the hell out of here” made an enormous impression on me at the time. I felt his utter disgust and sadness. Shatner sure does have some great acting moments. I totally bought it.
Thank you for letting us hear Kirk's last line even tho it wasn't part of the CGI stuff... You just can't watch even parts of this episode and not need to hear "Let's get the Hell out of here."
I remember the first time I showed this episode to my mom. She was trying to humor me by watching it with me, not expecting to get into the story. When Kirk holds back McCoy and Edith Keeler is killed, my mom gasped and cried. She gained a sizable amount of respect for Star Trek at that point, and has even watched some classic Next Gen episodes with me, such as "Inner Light".
“ThankYou” to whoever put this comparison together. It provides a concrete point from which to discuss “Like it” or “Don’t like it”. While the new interpretations of the look and feel of these scenes are fine I don’t see that they added enough to the episode to justify the expense.
Glad you enjoyed it. Because a lot of these videos are blocked either worldwide or in only some countries, I have started a new series called "All Versions Of..."
The ending of this episode is so haunting. Between the sounds, music, acting (Kirk's vacant stare and "let's get the hell out of here" always gets me), and them just beaming up leaving this uber-powerful device on the planet's surface waiting...always waiting... It still gives me shivers watching it again after all these many years...
David Rapp technically you are correct, of course the new ones are objectively more refined. However, the clincher in my statement still stands as ‘in my opinion’ the old star fields I find aesthetically more pleasing, or for simplicity ‘better’. Thank you for telling me what I really think, it is valuable input.
I believe, considering how GOOD the original visuals were, they should be kept in. Sort of like how the original Star Wars effects were amazing for the time. When you compare them to their contemporary effects; they are amazing!! Seriously! Even some sci-fi movies from the 60's - with bigger budgets - can't hold a candle to what the effects guys at Desilu were able to pull off. Also, keep in mind.... they were all "in-house" fellows with experience.... the effects weren't farmed out to an effects house. That's not how things were done then.
@@davidlewis1787 You know, if it draws in younger viewers, I guess that's Ok. Hopefully they'll discover the original versions on their own and they can decide which they prefer. I chuckle to myself that, when I was a kid in the 80's, I thought Star Trek was a CURRENT show. I did not know that it was (by that time) a 15-year-old show. The effects still looked pretty good by 1980's standards, sometimes BETTER. I guess as long as the new visuals don't altogether get replaced and the old versions thrown out or destroyed; I can live with that. The thing is, I find some of the new effects to be pretty hokey in comparison to the originals. They also look quite out-of-place in what is now, a 50+ year old TV show.
The problem with "improving" the special effects shots, and this is also true with what Lucas did to Star Wars, is that the producer is now committed to continually updating those effects as advances make the old CGI look dated. I am one who prefers the original, dirt on the matte shots and all. This helps date when the episodes were produced, and respects the original artists.
Arne Ryason the only thing that bugs me is that it retconned subtle design language to the old tech. EC Henry does a great series on TOS tech that was way more advanced that we give it credit for and sets a precedent for later tech seen in Next gen and Kelvin. For example people get upset at things like red bolt phaser types or the blue bolts of newer shows and movies but the blue dual phaser beams were actually a modern retcon. We saw the TOS Enterprise Fire a wide variety of different style phasers to suit different situations.
Still, I appreciate that for most of the updates, aside from some exceptions, the changes aren't jarring. Lucas created a situation, where the original films seem out of place & dated, if you watch the movie series in order. If they had used more intrusive CGI, I'm sure the additions would look dated much sooner.
A friend wrote a version in which the Guardian (actually no Guardian at all, but a loaded gun left over from the Temporal Cold War) wanted to kill Keeler. The bum originally saved Keeler, so the Guardian sent McCoy back to stop him. But then McCoy took the bum's place in saving Keeler. So the Guardian tricked Kirk and Spock into going back to stop McCoy. Keeler had nothing to do with America's entry into World War II. Pacifists and isolationists did indeed delay America's entry into the War, but once the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, the only thing delaying America's entry into the War was the time it took to print the declaration, so FDR could sign it. :-) The Enterprise was in orbit all along (which is why the landing party didn't vanish) - the Guardian simply blocked communications.
@@epiendless1128 And then Harlan Ellison rose from his grave to punch the writer of that... Because... Harlan was like that. He had anger management issues.
@@exexpat11 Ellison wrote in the original script that Scotty helped a drug dealer. As smart as Ellison was, he didn't think he might just get a whee bit of pushback from Roddenberry? I bet even James Doohan would refuse to speak Ellison's dialog!
3:05 I know it was just a prop device back then, but jeez how in every episode did they see all the data scans and info on the Tri-Corder view screen? They also hold it about 2 feet away from their eyes at arms length.
I think they did a wonderful job on the CG enhancements for the old shows. They didn't go "overboard" like many would have expected. The enhancements are subtle, and could almost go unnoticed if not pointed out. They did a great job at keeping the old style intact, while adding just enough in the right spots to increase the depth and believability of the fantastic stories.
@DidiFootage FX Yup, when my brother and I first saw the CGI-enhanced shows (not knowing), he was like "I don't remember the special effects being this good!" and I was like "Nah, they must be original, they wouldn't spend money updating these old shows."
Yeah they kept true to the era just made it look better on modern screens where the edges show up a lot more and did a bit of brightness adjustment to help with that as well
"The City on the Edge of Forever" has to be one of the very best episodes of all the Star Trek shows. When I first saw it in 1966 (I was 8 y/o) it was good but, it was not until I grew up that I saw how good a story is really is. The CGI really brings new life into the story.
@@TrekkieChannel It's a shame that the original story author, Harlan Ellison, didn't like it because they _changed his story._ I read he wanted Kirk to try to save Edith because he was in love with her and sacrifice the future of mankind. Pretty sick. Definitely needed a rewrite.
Absolutely. People give a lot of crap to the old effects, but they were very impressive for 1966 - don't forget this was shot BEFORE 2001 Space Odyssey and similar movies
The best part of the remaster here is that when they beam up and leave the gatekeeper, the credit graphics don't stop the action (i.e the smoke continues). That better conveys the drama as they originally intended..
I'll go for the original effects, they look well, for me the new ones adds detail, but look out of place. Even though, the story was one of the strongest of all Star Trek movies/series, one of that episodes that you can watch time after time, and still enjoy it. Thanks for the comparisson!
The Man From Krypton no I have not. Gene r rewrote it because Harlan had Kirk give up the enterprise for edith. It would have ended the series. Definitely a collaboration.
Robert Blackmore Ellison has been involved in a number of feuds during his career, over his mistreatment (whether perceived or real) at the hands of those for whom he has worked. In particular is his feud with Gene Roddenberry, who Ellison believed ruined the story that became "The City on the Edge of Forever", and then refused to change the screen credit to the "Cordwainer Bird" pseudonym. On top of that refusal, Roddenberry claimed credit for saving the story for years. Ellison outlined his side of the story in his book The City On The Edge of Forever, which reproduced his original teleplay. He later licensed the original teleplay to IDW Publishing, who also held the general Star Trek license, resulting in the Star Trek: Harlan Ellison's The City on the Edge of Forever miniseries. In 1979, Ellison wrote an introduction for a series of American reprints of Doctor Who novelizations, in which he said: Star Wars is adolescent nonsense; Close Encounters is obscurantist drivel; Star Trek can turn your brains to purée of bat guano; and the greatest science fiction series of all time is Doctor Who! And I'll take you all on, one-by-one or all in a bunch to back it up!"-Harlan Ellison. "Introducing Doctor Who", published in Doctor Who and the Day of the Daleks and nine other Doctor Who novelizations. Los Angeles: Pinnacle Books, 1979. In the same introduction, Ellison said that Star Trek "sententiously purports to be deep and intellectual when it is, in fact, superficial and self-conscious twaddle." 2009 Star Trek lawsuit In March 2009, Ellison filed a lawsuit against Paramount Pictures, CBS, and Simon & Schuster for what he claimed to be unpaid residuals owed to him for the use of elements from "The City on the Edge of Forever". Ellison claimed that the companies had refused to disclose sales figures on items derived from his work, including the Crucible trilogy of novels, Christmas ornaments, and DVD sets containing his episode. Ellison's representative stated that the author "want[ed] every penny of his long ago agreed-upon share of the revenue from Paramount's relentless Trek exploitations." [2] However, in October of that year, it was reported by Varietythat a settlement had been reached. [3] (2) trekmovie.com/2009/03/15/harlan-ellison-sues-paramount-alleges-unpaid-merchandising-royalties/ memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Harlan_Ellison Doesn't sound like he's a decent guy actually.
- Ellison occasionally wrote under the pseudonym "Cordwainer Bird" (sometimes spelled Cord Wainer Bird) to signal works he felt to have been impossibly compromised by others. The pseudonym was *first used by Ellison in the late 1950s for works of softcore pornographic fiction.* Later, he used the alias on four television episodes he wrote but disowned due to rewrites and once in place of his credit as creator of the series The Starlost. "Cordwainer" comes from Ellison's admiration for science fiction writer Cordwainer Smith; "Bird" is from the dismissive euphemism "for the birds," as well as "flipping the bird. Good guy this Harlan is.
The early shot of The Guardian shows more of it and the surrounding objects in the updated version vs the original. On the other hand, the images of the newspapers shown on the tricorder were zoomed in too closely and some of the text was cut off on the sides making it harder to read the text vs the original where you could read the start of the articles. I am also surprised that this comparison didn't show the effects used in either of the two times when the Guardian was showing the past.
@@TrekkieChannel Last time I saw this episode I remember seeing the vast city; similar to the wide shot we got of the Vulcan landscape when they beamed down in "Amok Time."
@@thebeststooge I disagree only because the enhanced effects do not take anything away from the essence of the show or the performances. The effects are so subtle, it does nothing to diminish the character of the stories, and in fact, slightly enhances it.
@DigiFootage FX I don't consider changing an entire planet's color as a subtle change. I did like the subtle change of the bum just being vaporized though.
@@bxdanny They had to change to color of the planet, so that the orbital view looked COMPLETELY DIFFERENT and INCOMPATIBLE with the surface shots. (yes, insert /sarcasm tags in there)
Dan Schwartz that made little sense to change the planet color. I could understand changing saturation and sharpness - which they did do in most scenes - but this looked so obviously out of place. Overall I am not displeased with the CGI as it did enhance clarity.
Interesting thought. If Kirk and Spock have failed to prevent McCoy from saving Keeler, Could this episode be the catalyst for the mirror universe where humans became conquerors?
James Blish, who wrote the episode adaptation to short story form(first published in 1968), addresses this alternative future. In short, intergalactic spaceflight never develops in the timeline where Keeler lives. The Federation, as we understand it, never develops. I am going to use this moment to encourage folks to seek out the adaptations; they are mostly good to excellent.
I'd noticed something at the end of the episode. It ends with Kirk and the crew going back into the ship afterwards. In the original version, a smoke was frozen during the transporter sequence. However, in the remastered version, the smoke kept moving at all. Also, the disintegration of the man was more useful from the phaser afterwards.
This is one of the most popular episodes and rightly so. The writing was a stroke of genius. But I really have to give it to Nichelle Nichols and her hero pose while beaming up at the end. That is usually the image that pops in my head when Nichelle or Uhura are mentioned.
Yes especially the way at the end when she just stood and looked at the captain and not saying anything. Even tho she never said a word, in that moment she said a lot. Priceless.
This bugs me, too. Our screens are bigger now. The newer image ironically seems like what the original would’ve been, because people’s TVs back then would’ve needed the comparative enlargement.
@J Wesley Mays It just doesn't fit with that cropping they did for the newer version. Really weird to have touched it at all to be honest though it may actually be because if you look at the corners (upper right and lower left) it didn't fit right and you could see the masking but they overdid the enlargement instead of just a small nudge that it needed. They also added a blur around the edges as well.
1:50 one of the most annoying effects of today's TV and film productions, the never-stop-moving camera. Rotate, pan, jog, travel, etc. And as far as the scenes of comparison presented here....barely anything seriously redone, with one exception. The scrambled views on Spock's Tricorder when the circuits blew. They were simply different, none was better than the other. But again, this is what happens when you get members of the digital-addiction age that looks at anything from the past and thinks it can be done better. How about leave things along?
Perfectly stated, thank you. Redoing these effects is, in my opinion, a variation of 'white washing history', plus it's an insult to the amazing work done by the effects men/women of the age. The 'dated' effects genuinely portray what was possible in that era, and it was already impressive, yes...but it is more importantly a testimony of the times, a record of what was possible...to 'beef it up' just to make the show more 'appealing' to the youth of today betrays the past work and efforts of these folks and it alters history... Almost comically ironic, given how Star Trek held the notion of 'not messing with the past' so dearly...
This episode is consider many people and ST autors,as THE BEST Star Trek ep.of all.And maybe even of all ST ever.And I strongly agreed.This is the masterpiece,no doubt+comics adaption of full teleplay by Harlan Ellison.
It's definitely one of my favourite episodes. I haven't read the comics yet, maybe it would be fun to do a comparison video between the comic book adaptation of the original script and the final episode?
TrekkieChannel Interesting idea.But,I must warn u.That comics is very,very,diferent from what we all know(and love)from tv.Middle story line is far more large than tv v.(but similar).This c.adaption have about 100pgs.=approximately 100minutes=2ep.full story.And begining/ending is also very diferent.For example SPOILER ALLERT!!!-in comics is yeoman Rand,drug dealer(one of the officers!!!on board of the Enterprise),dr.McCoy don´t travel in time at all,instead of him the drug dealer does,Guardian of Forever looks like completely diferent etc.,etc.P.s.and this amazing adaptation is fully painted!Not pencilled.if u know genius comic artist,Alex Ross,u got it.;-)And these wonderfully alt.covers of all 5issues,oh pure joy.
TrekkieChannel U R the first,who ask on this.8months comments on jutub,and nobody cares and I waited for so long:-)Yes.I´m from Czech Republic,formerly known as Czechoslovakia(1918-1993),founded our first and today,greatest!president-Thomas Garrigue Masaryk,and before my time,Austro-Hungarian Empire(1867-1918).This was a little history lesson for u;-)BTW,I´m was born in 1980 and love Star Trek since ´85.Yeah,I watching ST 31years.Sometimes,I can´t believe this,but it´s true.
No they didn’t. The originals look great like the planet model...even the phaser effect doesn’t fit because they didn’t make it bright white like the original.
Just got the Blu-ray of the show and I'm currently on this episode, and I noticed a huge change in the picture color from the 90s VHS release. The planet is not green on the VHS version when act 2 starts like it is on the Blu-ray. Don't know about the DVD releases since I don't have it, but there is definitely a change in color from the VHS tape. I double checked to make sure. Just thought I'd point out that little bit of trivia.
With the exception of the planet renderings, I prefer the original. I don't like how they repositioned the newspaper in the tricorder. I think originally showing the newspaper title adds more to the screenshot. And I really don't like how they over-softened Uhura's face.
@@TrekkieChannel Yes, I noticed that. But how lazy did they have to be to say, "oh, we can't possibly recreate that newspaper page and take a new image so it looks nice and doesn't cut off half the publication name?" No matter how much inspiration a team has to do a good job, there are always people who'll shortcut things, and what they did with that newspaper is a great example of that.
To all the people whining about the CGI effects. You don't have to watch them. They're just a fun option to see higher quality interpretations of old effects. This isn't disrespectful. You can still watch the old versions. They haven't been banned like Star Wars.
To the Purist; It’s like comparing an LED bulb to a incandescent bulb. An LED is bright white and exudes a cold feeling where the Incandescent has a yellowish glow to it almost like a candle that exudes a warm feeling. I guess there is some merit to that.
Did they fix the audio mixing flub when Spock yells "No, Jim!" just before Edith gets struck by the truck? In the original version, the line is doubled because whomever mixed the audio, left both tracks open. So Spock yells the line from on-set audio, PLUS they must've looped it in post. I would assume, the looped line was a better "reading". However, the original episode uses both lines on top of each other, so it sounds like two Spocks are yelling in unison.
In the later movies they said Kirk never had his Kobiashi-Maru moment but I think he had it here.2 scenarios ,both totally unacceptable to him and he chose the one that did the most good for the most people. He took a loss that was totally horrible and did it for the betterment of the world.
A Kobiashi-Maru moment (based upon on-screen depictions) is when a captain faces a no-win scenario, while in command of his ship, where his death (as well as the crew's) is inevitable. There were no events in the episode that would qualify as a Kobiashi-Maru moment.
@@Seemsayin Thanks for doing necromancy on this thread. Although you are technically correct,there is a similarity between having to allow a woman that you love to die in order to save a whole plain of existence. He sacrificed a life for his civilization and ship. He could not finesse his way around the situation by rigging the computer like he did in his actual Kobiashi-Maru test.
@@PC4USE1I'm technically correct. In other words: *I'm correct*, technically or otherwise. You admit I was right, but then make a back-handed remark. What does necromancy have to do with anything? Can you point to the part(s) where I've communicated with the deceased, to help me in predicting the future? Pretty sure I didn't do any of that. Please copy & paste it, cuz I don't see it. The Kobiashi-Maru test is for prospective captains, about facing THEIR own mortality, in the face of certain death. It's NOT about playing God, and shutting the door on someone you think you love. You can't sacrifice what is not yours. He was there on a mission. That's why I think your train of thought is completely subjective. Finding out that you can't stay in a relationship with someone, for whatever reason that causes you to have to say goodbye, is not the same as facing imminent death during battle. Captains are supposed to know better. Kirk knew better. He got his panties in a bunch when McCoy got involved, but didn't think twice about his own involvement. Bad doggy. That's the bone I had to pick with Kirk. So... what was with the necro thingy?
@@Seemsayin Necromancy in this case is bringing a thread back to life from 11 months ago. Sorry if the joke missed it's point. Nothing backhanded in that I was trying to illustrate the point I was making with the Kobiashi-Maru remark. Perhaps I should have called it Kobiashi-like. Take care,now.
The cgi shots of the ship are breathtaking. I’m alright with the rest. I am disappointed that I can often still see a hard matte line around people beaming up in the cgi version. To be honest, I am a devout TOS fan, not the least for its aesthetics. This includes the original effects. (This also accounts for my lack of attention given to TNG.) Well, I’m still so used to it cut and scratchy on T.V., that any clean version blows me away. Thank you so much for posting these comparisons. So enjoyable, as are the comments.
I wonder if anyone's ever noticed this, in the final shot, the landing party arranges themselves into a circle, they way they do in the transporter room. Firstly, is that really necessary? Secondly, there are 7 people beaming up at once, but only six operational pads in the transporter alcove. How did THAT work?
Did you notice how, in the opening establishing shot of the Enterprise moving left to right in front of the planet, the lighting of the ship in the CGI version is more wrong than it is in the original? In the original, the planet is lit from right of frame and behind POV while the ship is lit from slightly left of frame and behind POV, whereas in the CGI version, the planet is lit the same but the ship is lit from...above?? They had an opportunity to make it look like a REAL SHIP in space and didn’t do as good a job as they did in the 60s.
Nothing, that's just the intro to the changed scene. The way how I did these videos is - let's say you have shots A,B,C, where B was changed, I would fade in during the last 2 seconds of shot A, show you the shot B and fade out during the first seconds of shot C
I'm puzzled by 2:22. What did they do? It looks like they might have replaced the rock in the bottom left foreground... but I can't imagine why they would do that. I also liked the original effect better at 4:00. Still, this was pretty good. I even noticed the very subtle adjustments to the rocking of the ship at the start. Well done.
+ABW941 Actually many of the planets were a simple globe painted and lit differently for each week. They used also other techniques, Talos IV for example was a re-painted picture of the Moon.
@3:11 the drop shadow added inside the screen bezel is too diffuse and actually is inappropriate since the illumination of the screen itself would wash out any shadow like that. It should have been in interior glow instead of a drop shadow. That's why it looks fake. Also would have run a sharpen on the matte because it wouldn't be at a different focus than the screen which looks much sharper.
Always found it amusing that Star Trek weapons "know" when to stop destroying matter. Like @3:55 why does only the hobo disintegrate? How did the overloading phaser know where his shoes end and the ground begins? They should have added a CGI crater.
+Andrew Chapman I believe they stableized the shot and then did their own shake...but cropped it because they needed the extra margin (that was still there) to make that new shake...you can see that the shakes pull the image margins into the frame.
+Niko Papacosti I seem to recall the Enterprise beaming whole groups through their transporter on at least one occasion. Didn't the Klingons once attempt to hijack the Enterprise by entering through the transporter? Your explanation makes sense. Live long & prosper!
This is one of my favorite Episodes. Real Science Fiction, as opposed to some of the cra* they put on some of the other episodes or the episodes in TNG
Harlan mentioned in a TV interview once that he originally wrote the script to show someone 'dealing illicit-drugs' on the Enterprise and this was TURNED DOWN by both Paramount and the NBC Network. So they changed it to being an 'accident' caused by a 'space storm.' My, how times have changed there, too. ;)
I prefer the original pre-CGI version, even the digitally remastered version of the 90's is preferable to the CGI version. As usual, they tended to overdo the CGI.
So on the CGI side, there image on the tricorder is slightly magnified thus making what could be read a bit less visible like the title of the newspaper. Why would that be the case?
The CGI upgrades are good but what this episode really needs is a big musical number with lots of singing and dancing CGI aliens. -George Lucas (probably)
I watched the remastered version shortly after it came out, not knowing they replaced most of the special effects. I immediately disliked it. A shame the original footage filmed with real models was lost. The new footage is intended to be discrete and complimenting the 60s style of the episodes. however, it comes off as really just bad cgi you would find in a 90s tv production
Well, the version with the original effects is on the Blu-ray available using the "seamless branching" feature. Some of the original effects elements still exist, some of them were released on the Roddenberry Vault box set from 2016
The planet is spinning even faster in the new version. Why do they make the planets spin at all? Seems like a lot of trouble for something that's wrong in the first place.
One thing I never noticed watching this episode for all these years... At the end the Guardian tells them that they can have many journeys - let me be your gateway. Meanwhile we just watched what could happen when McCoy went back and changed history. Starfleet should make this planet off limits.
Wouldn’t it be interesting if this was the start of the Terran empire for the mirror universe if Kirk and Spock failed to stop McCoy in another reality?
Such a strong episode in every way (script,acting, direction, story) CGI of the effects seems unnecessary. The bit I always remember is when Kirk looks up into the sky when he realises the Enterprise doesn't exist. I know the show sometimes got knocked for Shatner overacting but he puts in a strong performance in this episode (as do Nimoy, Collins, Kelley and Doohan). Personally my favourite story is The Menagerie pts 1&2 but You can see why City on the edge of forever is many peoples favourite episode. It's s a terrific example of how creative the show could be.
Why they never revisited the Guardian of Forever to me is a mystery. That's not to say they won't ever, but why hasn't it been done yet? Would have made a great TNG episode. The novel, Imzadi, proved that it could have easily been done. Even a feature film.
Forget TNG. It would have made a not great original ep. They already knew how to travel back in time and did so many eps before this! Sadly, in real life we never will. We will do many things in God's future but never time travel!
I'd argue that most of these differences are negligible, at best. A couple looked better after, such as the front and side views of the Enterprise, particularly the nacelles, but the original rear view of the nacelles looked better, as did the planet views from space. 03:13 As far as the Tricorder screen failure, I liked the original better because it gave a far more of a sense of "Uh-oh, our lives are about to really take on a whole new level of 'suck' than we originally thought". The updated one looks like "Len, I thought it was your job to swap out the 'C' cells in the Tricorders at the end of each episode". The green planet at 02:53 was definitely better before someone decided to turn it into a basically a barren looking rock. 04:20 Same thing, except the green haze has been lifted and it looks like it could be alive now, but the updated one still looks like a dead rock. I'm torn on the disappearing guy at 04:00 though.
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It is remarkable how good the special effects were for the time, really impressive.
I agree. Even though now in HD you can see all the flaws you could not see on your small black and white TV screen, I still am impressed by what they were able to achieve. Especially after watching the documentaries on "Roddenberry's vault" where they talk about the technical problems they had
One of the best is the matte they use at the beginning of "Dagger of the Mind". You know it's fake, but I challenge anyone to find the border between the matte and the rest of the image. The same or similar mattes are seen in several other episodes.
@@TrekkieChannel I luv it when you saw the fake rocks move and the strings on the Puppets, but the GUARDIAN was epic for it's era
It is indeed. The new effects are very sympathetic to the original choices and work well.
Especially when you consider that they had money problems and some of their props and things that where used came straight from the garage can.
I know this is about the effects, but Kirk's last line -- "Let's get the hell out of here" -- was very powerful, back in those days where even mild epithets such as "hell" were rarely if ever heard on American TV. I still remember how struck I was by it. A terrific episode.
In general words like hell had to contribute to the story. The gateway put Kirk in a position where he had to act out of his character, in order to fix the damage caused to time. "Hell" is a powerful statement for the end of this episode. By far the darkest end of any Star Trek episode.
yep, and thats why it remains perhaps the best TOS episode
Yes, you'll notice that in most episodes they say things like, "To the devil with that..." and "What the blazes..." instead of Hell. Bones' signature phrase, "Damn it Jim!" didn't come along until the movies. No way they could say that in the show.
Daniel Strain or Kirk telling Kang to go to the devil instead of hell.
whatever would 60s television audiences delicate sensibilities think of Game of thrones or breaking bad?
johnmburt1960 we have Harlan Ellison to thank for writing this episode of “Star Trek.” The final episode was rewritten by Gene L. Coon, D.C. Fontana and Gene Roddenberry himself, but Harlan was the only one credited despite the fact that only 1/5 of what he wrote made it in. Despite all of that, “The City on the Edge of Forever” is still credited as the #1 episode of the original series of “Star Trek.”
this is my favourite episode of Star Trek, I remember seeing it back in 1969, I was a child, but it had a lasting effect on me, even as an 8 year old I understood the tragedy and pain Kirk suffered in this story. I still like to watch it now, such a poignant episode, so thanks for sharing this comparison, I do have the series on blu ray of course, the updated effects certainly add something...they are an improvement for sure.
Those special effects guys back in the 1960's really knew what they were doing. For a sixties tv show, really, really outstanding.
That “get the hell out of here” made an enormous impression on me at the time. I felt his utter disgust and sadness. Shatner sure does have some great acting moments. I totally bought it.
Thank you for letting us hear Kirk's last line even tho it wasn't part of the CGI stuff... You just can't watch even parts of this episode and not need to hear "Let's get the Hell out of here."
An episode low on effects but high on emotion. The most moving and possibly best loved episode by many.
My god my god...so ahead of its time...
I remember the first time I showed this episode to my mom. She was trying to humor me by watching it with me, not expecting to get into the story. When Kirk holds back McCoy and Edith Keeler is killed, my mom gasped and cried. She gained a sizable amount of respect for Star Trek at that point, and has even watched some classic Next Gen episodes with me, such as "Inner Light".
“ThankYou” to whoever put this comparison together. It provides a concrete point from which to discuss “Like it” or “Don’t like it”. While the new interpretations of the look and feel of these scenes are fine I don’t see that they added enough to the episode to justify the expense.
Glad you enjoyed it. Because a lot of these videos are blocked either worldwide or in only some countries, I have started a new series called "All Versions Of..."
She’s such a beauty! What CGI can do to make an awesome fly-by even better! 🖖🏼
The ending of this episode is so haunting. Between the sounds, music, acting (Kirk's vacant stare and "let's get the hell out of here" always gets me), and them just beaming up leaving this uber-powerful device on the planet's surface waiting...always waiting... It still gives me shivers watching it again after all these many years...
Love the restrained cgi they did for these... but the original star fields are in my opinion better
David Rapp technically you are correct, of course the new ones are objectively more refined. However, the clincher in my statement still stands as ‘in my opinion’ the old star fields I find aesthetically more pleasing, or for simplicity ‘better’. Thank you for telling me what I really think, it is valuable input.
Artistically, the originals are superior. However we all know you can't soak people for nothing "new".
I believe, considering how GOOD the original visuals were, they should be kept in. Sort of like how the original Star Wars effects were amazing for the time. When you compare them to their contemporary effects; they are amazing!! Seriously! Even some sci-fi movies from the 60's - with bigger budgets - can't hold a candle to what the effects guys at Desilu were able to pull off. Also, keep in mind.... they were all "in-house" fellows with experience.... the effects weren't farmed out to an effects house. That's not how things were done then.
That AMC Guy I genuinely think there is a place for both, but I do love optical and practical effects. 👍👍❤️
@@davidlewis1787 You know, if it draws in younger viewers, I guess that's Ok. Hopefully they'll discover the original versions on their own and they can decide which they prefer.
I chuckle to myself that, when I was a kid in the 80's, I thought Star Trek was a CURRENT show. I did not know that it was (by that time) a 15-year-old show. The effects still looked pretty good by 1980's standards, sometimes BETTER.
I guess as long as the new visuals don't altogether get replaced and the old versions thrown out or destroyed; I can live with that.
The thing is, I find some of the new effects to be pretty hokey in comparison to the originals. They also look quite out-of-place in what is now, a 50+ year old TV show.
The problem with "improving" the special effects shots, and this is also true with what Lucas did to Star Wars, is that the producer is now committed to continually updating those effects as advances make the old CGI look dated. I am one who prefers the original, dirt on the matte shots and all. This helps date when the episodes were produced, and respects the original artists.
Arne Ryason the only thing that bugs me is that it retconned subtle design language to the old tech. EC Henry does a great series on TOS tech that was way more advanced that we give it credit for and sets a precedent for later tech seen in Next gen and Kelvin. For example people get upset at things like red bolt phaser types or the blue bolts of newer shows and movies but the blue dual phaser beams were actually a modern retcon. We saw the TOS Enterprise Fire a wide variety of different style phasers to suit different situations.
Still, I appreciate that for most of the updates, aside from some exceptions, the changes aren't jarring. Lucas created a situation, where the original films seem out of place & dated, if you watch the movie series in order. If they had used more intrusive CGI, I'm sure the additions would look dated much sooner.
One of the best episodes.
One of Harlan Ellison’s finest works, even watered down from his original version.
I have recently read the comic book adaptation of his original script. Even though I loved it I fully understand why it went through several rewrites
Wouldn't it have been funny if the bum dying (4:00) was the event that changed the future and NOT Edith?
That's what I call a good twist :-)
A friend wrote a version in which the Guardian (actually no Guardian at all, but a loaded gun left over from the Temporal Cold War) wanted to kill Keeler. The bum originally saved Keeler, so the Guardian sent McCoy back to stop him. But then McCoy took the bum's place in saving Keeler. So the Guardian tricked Kirk and Spock into going back to stop McCoy.
Keeler had nothing to do with America's entry into World War II. Pacifists and isolationists did indeed delay America's entry into the War, but once the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, the only thing delaying America's entry into the War was the time it took to print the declaration, so FDR could sign it. :-)
The Enterprise was in orbit all along (which is why the landing party didn't vanish) - the Guardian simply blocked communications.
@@epiendless1128 And then Harlan Ellison rose from his grave to punch the writer of that... Because... Harlan was like that. He had anger management issues.
@@exexpat11 But those quirks are what make writers, comedians and other notable persons achieve great status and creativity
@@exexpat11 Ellison wrote in the original script that Scotty helped a drug dealer. As smart as Ellison was, he didn't think he might just get a whee bit of pushback from Roddenberry? I bet even James Doohan would refuse to speak Ellison's dialog!
You guys have really got it together..this is 3 in a row..really enjoyed watching..thanks for posting ✔⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐👜👍
I don't understand why anyone would give this video a thumbs down.
Some men just want to watch the world burn
This episode was filmed on the set they used for Andy Griffith, you can even see Floyd's Barber shop when Kirk and her were walking down the street.
3:05 I know it was just a prop device back then, but jeez how in every episode did they see all the data scans and info on the Tri-Corder view screen? They also hold it about 2 feet away from their eyes at arms length.
I think they did a wonderful job on the CG enhancements for the old shows. They didn't go "overboard" like many would have expected. The enhancements are subtle, and could almost go unnoticed if not pointed out. They did a great job at keeping the old style intact, while adding just enough in the right spots to increase the depth and believability of the fantastic stories.
@DidiFootage FX Yup, when my brother and I first saw the CGI-enhanced shows (not knowing), he was like "I don't remember the special effects being this good!" and I was like
"Nah, they must be original, they wouldn't spend money updating these old shows."
Yeah they kept true to the era just made it look better on modern screens where the edges show up a lot more and did a bit of brightness adjustment to help with that as well
"The City on the Edge of Forever" has to be one of the very best episodes of all the Star Trek shows. When I first saw it in 1966 (I was 8 y/o) it was good but, it was not until I grew up that I saw how good a story is really is. The CGI really brings new life into the story.
It's beautiful. And Shatner's acting is simply PERFECT in this episode, you can make fun of him as much as you like
@@TrekkieChannel It's a shame that the original story author, Harlan Ellison, didn't like it because they _changed his story._ I read he wanted Kirk to try to save Edith because he was in love with her and sacrifice the future of mankind. Pretty sick. Definitely needed a rewrite.
The starfield of the original looked very impressive for 1960s television production.
Absolutely. People give a lot of crap to the old effects, but they were very impressive for 1966 - don't forget this was shot BEFORE 2001 Space Odyssey and similar movies
@@TrekkieChannel Remember an Airport Wind Sock covered in concrete was the Planet Destroyer. It worked at the time.
The best part of the remaster here is that when they beam up and leave the gatekeeper, the credit graphics don't stop the action (i.e the smoke continues). That better conveys the drama as they originally intended..
Good catch. Yeah, that is a nice touch.
Wow. That is something I never noticed before. Had to go back and watch that part again. Gives a much more eerie and lonely feel to the scene.
I'll go for the original effects, they look well, for me the new ones adds detail, but look out of place.
Even though, the story was one of the strongest of all Star Trek movies/series, one of that episodes that you can watch time after time, and still enjoy it.
Thanks for the comparisson!
You're welcome!
I saw these originally while in high school, and on a b&w tv. I liked them then, even without great effects.
The only thing that did not need remastering in this episode was Joan Collins.Harlan Ellison/Gene Roddenberry created a sci-fi masterpiece.
Robert Blakemore have you read Ellison's original story for this? It sucks and I'm glad 3/4 was rewritten.
The Man From Krypton no I have not. Gene r rewrote it because Harlan had Kirk give up the enterprise for edith. It would have ended the series. Definitely a collaboration.
Robert Blackmore Ellison has been involved in a number of feuds during his career, over his mistreatment (whether perceived or real) at the hands of those for whom he has worked. In particular is his feud with Gene Roddenberry, who Ellison believed ruined the story that became "The City on the Edge of Forever", and then refused to change the screen credit to the "Cordwainer Bird" pseudonym. On top of that refusal, Roddenberry claimed credit for saving the story for years. Ellison outlined his side of the story in his book The City On The Edge of Forever, which reproduced his original teleplay. He later licensed the original teleplay to IDW Publishing, who also held the general Star Trek license, resulting in the Star Trek: Harlan Ellison's The City on the Edge of Forever miniseries.
In 1979, Ellison wrote an introduction for a series of American reprints of Doctor Who novelizations, in which he said:
Star Wars is adolescent nonsense; Close Encounters is obscurantist drivel; Star Trek can turn your brains to purée of bat guano; and the greatest science fiction series of all time is Doctor Who! And I'll take you all on, one-by-one or all in a bunch to back it up!"-Harlan Ellison. "Introducing Doctor Who", published in Doctor Who and the Day of the Daleks and nine other Doctor Who novelizations. Los Angeles: Pinnacle Books, 1979.
In the same introduction, Ellison said that Star Trek "sententiously purports to be deep and intellectual when it is, in fact, superficial and self-conscious twaddle."
2009 Star Trek lawsuit
In March 2009, Ellison filed a lawsuit against Paramount Pictures, CBS, and Simon & Schuster for what he claimed to be unpaid residuals owed to him for the use of elements from "The City on the Edge of Forever". Ellison claimed that the companies had refused to disclose sales figures on items derived from his work, including the Crucible trilogy of novels, Christmas ornaments, and DVD sets containing his episode. Ellison's representative stated that the author "want[ed] every penny of his long ago agreed-upon share of the revenue from Paramount's relentless Trek exploitations." [2] However, in October of that year, it was reported by Varietythat a settlement had been reached. [3]
(2) trekmovie.com/2009/03/15/harlan-ellison-sues-paramount-alleges-unpaid-merchandising-royalties/
memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Harlan_Ellison
Doesn't sound like he's a decent guy actually.
Robert Blakemore
www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/startrek/comments/50i72i/gene_roddenberry_responds_to_harlan_ellisons/
- Ellison occasionally wrote under the pseudonym "Cordwainer Bird" (sometimes spelled Cord Wainer Bird) to signal works he felt to have been impossibly compromised by others. The pseudonym was *first used by Ellison in the late 1950s for works of softcore pornographic fiction.* Later, he used the alias on four television episodes he wrote but disowned due to rewrites and once in place of his credit as creator of the series The Starlost. "Cordwainer" comes from Ellison's admiration for science fiction writer Cordwainer Smith; "Bird" is from the dismissive euphemism "for the birds," as well as "flipping the bird.
Good guy this Harlan is.
I liked this episode. One of the best.
I don't dislike most of the CGI updates, but why does the planet rotate so quickly? The spin seems ridiculously fast to me.
You have a problem with a 45 second long day?
DID NOT LOOK LIKE PLANET EARTH AT ALL
Ese Callum it's not Earth. It was an unexplored planet. The time gateway took them to earth but the planet they left from was a different one.
The CGI simply makes the original concept a little more shiny. A great television series that had true visionary status.
The early shot of The Guardian shows more of it and the surrounding objects in the updated version vs the original. On the other hand, the images of the newspapers shown on the tricorder were zoomed in too closely and some of the text was cut off on the sides making it harder to read the text vs the original where you could read the start of the articles. I am also surprised that this comparison didn't show the effects used in either of the two times when the Guardian was showing the past.
Was there something more? I must check it more carefully when I get to the "Versionist" episode
@@TrekkieChannel Last time I saw this episode I remember seeing the vast city; similar to the wide shot we got of the Vulcan landscape when they beamed down in "Amok Time."
I dunno...been a Trekkie since 1982. The CGI gives new life to the old girl.
I agree. It adds subtle detail and brings you even deeper into the believability of the worlds.
Disagree and I go back to 1974 when it first hit syndication and each day after school. One has the effects the other has the soul.
@@thebeststooge I disagree only because the enhanced effects do not take anything away from the essence of the show or the performances. The effects are so subtle, it does nothing to diminish the character of the stories, and in fact, slightly enhances it.
@DigiFootage FX I don't consider changing an entire planet's color as a subtle change. I did like the subtle change of the bum just being vaporized though.
I hate the new digitally juked-up shots. I would much rather see the original SPFX.
Prefer original actually.
I agree. There was just no reason for the changes that were made. Why change the color of the planet?
@@bxdanny They had to change to color of the planet, so that the orbital view looked COMPLETELY DIFFERENT and INCOMPATIBLE with the surface shots.
(yes, insert /sarcasm tags in there)
Dan Schwartz that made little sense to change the planet color. I could understand changing saturation and sharpness - which they did do in most scenes - but this looked so obviously out of place. Overall I am not displeased with the CGI as it did enhance clarity.
Totally agree - why change a classic just because CGI has advanced?
Interesting thought. If Kirk and Spock have failed to prevent McCoy from saving Keeler, Could this episode be the catalyst for the mirror universe where humans became conquerors?
Interesting thought indeed
No, because in canon the Terran Empire had is roots in ancient Rome.
@@brettcooper3893 -- I thought the Terran Empire has its genesis when Zefram Cochrane and the humans attack the Vulcans and steal their technology.
@@BTScriviner >>Zefram Cochrane and the humans attack the Vulcans
James Blish, who wrote the episode adaptation to short story form(first published in 1968), addresses this alternative future. In short, intergalactic spaceflight never develops in the timeline where Keeler lives. The Federation, as we understand it, never develops.
I am going to use this moment to encourage folks to seek out the adaptations; they are mostly good to excellent.
Good lesson at 3:55 to all the young people out there: Don't touch things that aren't yours ...
And maybe 'dont lookbdown the barrel of a gun', although it was a phaser on overload, I knew as a kid you didnt want to point it at your face...
I'd noticed something at the end of the episode. It ends with Kirk and the crew going back into the ship afterwards. In the original version, a smoke was frozen during the transporter sequence. However, in the remastered version, the smoke kept moving at all. Also, the disintegration of the man was more useful from the phaser afterwards.
This is one of the most popular episodes and rightly so. The writing was a stroke of genius. But I really have to give it to Nichelle Nichols and her hero pose while beaming up at the end. That is usually the image that pops in my head when Nichelle or Uhura are mentioned.
Yes especially the way at the end when she just stood and looked at the captain and not saying anything. Even tho she never said a word, in that moment she said a lot. Priceless.
I wonder why they zoomed in more on the newspaper in the CGI than the original or why they even bothered to touch that?
I think because you've got a screen within a screen. It makes sense to get it as large as you can on there for legibility purposes.
This bugs me, too. Our screens are bigger now. The newer image ironically seems like what the original would’ve been, because people’s TVs back then would’ve needed the comparative enlargement.
@J Wesley Mays It just doesn't fit with that cropping they did for the newer version. Really weird to have touched it at all to be honest though it may actually be because if you look at the corners (upper right and lower left) it didn't fit right and you could see the masking but they overdid the enlargement instead of just a small nudge that it needed. They also added a blur around the edges as well.
“We were successful” is so Spock. Love it
There are closeups of the newspaper on Spock's tricorder screen in the newer remastered edition. 3:33.
Butch Cassidy Channel you’re right. In the remastered version, part of the newspaper headline is missing. I didn’t notice that until now.
Simply one of the best!
1:50 one of the most annoying effects of today's TV and film productions, the never-stop-moving camera. Rotate, pan, jog, travel, etc. And as far as the scenes of comparison presented here....barely anything seriously redone, with one exception. The scrambled views on Spock's Tricorder when the circuits blew. They were simply different, none was better than the other. But again, this is what happens when you get members of the digital-addiction age that looks at anything from the past and thinks it can be done better. How about leave things along?
Perfectly stated, thank you.
Redoing these effects is, in my opinion, a variation of 'white washing history', plus it's an insult to the amazing work done by the effects men/women of the age. The 'dated' effects genuinely portray what was possible in that era, and it was already impressive, yes...but it is more importantly a testimony of the times, a record of what was possible...to 'beef it up' just to make the show more 'appealing' to the youth of today betrays the past work and efforts of these folks and it alters history...
Almost comically ironic, given how Star Trek held the notion of 'not messing with the past' so dearly...
The only differences I've really noticed was the planets and Enterprise. I have dvd collections of both before and after CGI of TOS.
This episode is consider many people and ST autors,as THE BEST Star Trek ep.of all.And maybe even of all ST ever.And I strongly agreed.This is the masterpiece,no doubt+comics adaption of full teleplay by Harlan Ellison.
It's definitely one of my favourite episodes. I haven't read the comics yet, maybe it would be fun to do a comparison video between the comic book adaptation of the original script and the final episode?
TrekkieChannel Interesting idea.But,I must warn u.That comics is very,very,diferent from what we all know(and love)from tv.Middle story line is far more large than tv v.(but similar).This c.adaption have about 100pgs.=approximately 100minutes=2ep.full story.And begining/ending is also very diferent.For example SPOILER ALLERT!!!-in comics is yeoman Rand,drug dealer(one of the officers!!!on board of the Enterprise),dr.McCoy don´t travel in time at all,instead of him the drug dealer does,Guardian of Forever looks like completely diferent etc.,etc.P.s.and this amazing adaptation is fully painted!Not pencilled.if u know genius comic artist,Alex Ross,u got it.;-)And these wonderfully alt.covers of all 5issues,oh pure joy.
I'll try to do it if I find a copy somewhere. BTW sorry for the question, but your name sounds pretty Slavic, am I right ? :-)
TrekkieChannel U R the first,who ask on this.8months comments on jutub,and nobody cares and I waited for so long:-)Yes.I´m from Czech Republic,formerly known as Czechoslovakia(1918-1993),founded our first and today,greatest!president-Thomas Garrigue Masaryk,and before my time,Austro-Hungarian Empire(1867-1918).This was a little history lesson for u;-)BTW,I´m was born in 1980 and love Star Trek since ´85.Yeah,I watching ST 31years.Sometimes,I can´t believe this,but it´s true.
Well I don't need a history lesson, I was born in Czechoslovakia in 1981, that's why I asked :-) Tak srdecny pozdrav zo Slovenska !
What this shows is that those who did the CGI did a great job staying true to the spirit of the original effects.
No they didn’t. The originals look great like the planet model...even the phaser effect doesn’t fit because they didn’t make it bright white like the original.
Just got the Blu-ray of the show and I'm currently on this episode, and I noticed a huge change in the picture color from the 90s VHS release. The planet is not green on the VHS version when act 2 starts like it is on the Blu-ray. Don't know about the DVD releases since I don't have it, but there is definitely a change in color from the VHS tape. I double checked to make sure. Just thought I'd point out that little bit of trivia.
Other than that, I prefer the original.
Just checked out the DVD version, the planet isn't green in that one either.
I unfortunately don't have TOS on VHS so I can't compare
With the exception of the planet renderings, I prefer the original. I don't like how they repositioned the newspaper in the tricorder. I think originally showing the newspaper title adds more to the screenshot. And I really don't like how they over-softened Uhura's face.
This in IMO is the Second Greatest Trek Episode Ever- after The Devil in the Dark.
@ 3:33 you can see more of the newspaper in the original.
They have expanded the picture and re-composited, probably to hide out the bad looking original black mattes
@@TrekkieChannel Yes, I noticed that. But how lazy did they have to be to say, "oh, we can't possibly recreate that newspaper page and take a new image so it looks nice and doesn't cut off half the publication name?" No matter how much inspiration a team has to do a good job, there are always people who'll shortcut things, and what they did with that newspaper is a great example of that.
I just want hours of Enterprise beauty shots. :)
Doesn't everybody? :) I can't wait till I get my hands on the "Roddenberry vault" box set which should include the SFX shots
The best scene in STTMP was the travelpod’s flyover of the spacedocked refit Enterprise. Don’t you agree?
Ok u see more detail great. Another format will b coming in the future
To all the people whining about the CGI effects. You don't have to watch them. They're just a fun option to see higher quality interpretations of old effects. This isn't disrespectful. You can still watch the old versions. They haven't been banned like Star Wars.
To the Purist; It’s like comparing an LED bulb to a incandescent bulb.
An LED is bright white and exudes a cold feeling where the Incandescent has a yellowish glow to it almost like a candle that exudes a warm feeling. I guess there is some merit to that.
Did they fix the audio mixing flub when Spock yells "No, Jim!" just before Edith gets struck by the truck? In the original version, the line is doubled because whomever mixed the audio, left both tracks open. So Spock yells the line from on-set audio, PLUS they must've looped it in post. I would assume, the looped line was a better "reading". However, the original episode uses both lines on top of each other, so it sounds like two Spocks are yelling in unison.
One of my favourite episodes 📡
In the later movies they said Kirk never had his Kobiashi-Maru moment but I think he had it here.2 scenarios ,both totally unacceptable to him and he chose the one that did the most good for the most people. He took a loss that was totally horrible and did it for the betterment of the world.
A Kobiashi-Maru moment (based upon on-screen depictions) is when a captain faces a no-win scenario, while in command of his ship, where his death (as well as the crew's) is inevitable. There were no events in the episode that would qualify as a Kobiashi-Maru moment.
@@Seemsayin Thanks for doing necromancy on this thread. Although you are technically correct,there is a similarity between having to allow a woman that you love to die in order to save a whole plain of existence. He sacrificed a life for his civilization and ship. He could not finesse his way around the situation by rigging the computer like he did in his actual Kobiashi-Maru test.
@@PC4USE1I'm technically correct. In other words: *I'm correct*, technically or otherwise. You admit I was right, but then make a back-handed remark. What does necromancy have to do with anything? Can you point to the part(s) where I've communicated with the deceased, to help me in predicting the future? Pretty sure I didn't do any of that. Please copy & paste it, cuz I don't see it.
The Kobiashi-Maru test is for prospective captains, about facing THEIR own mortality, in the face of certain death. It's NOT about playing God, and shutting the door on someone you think you love. You can't sacrifice what is not yours. He was there on a mission. That's why I think your train of thought is completely subjective. Finding out that you can't stay in a relationship with someone, for whatever reason that causes you to have to say goodbye, is not the same as facing imminent death during battle.
Captains are supposed to know better. Kirk knew better. He got his panties in a bunch when McCoy got involved, but didn't think twice about his own involvement. Bad doggy. That's the bone I had to pick with Kirk.
So... what was with the necro thingy?
@@Seemsayin Necromancy in this case is bringing a thread back to life from 11 months ago. Sorry if the joke missed it's point. Nothing backhanded in that I was trying to illustrate the point I was making with the Kobiashi-Maru remark. Perhaps I should have called it Kobiashi-like. Take care,now.
@@PC4USE1 11 months... almost a lifetime. Should it matter when some things are said?
So long.
5:16 in the original the mist in the Guardian "freezes" as they beam up, because they couldn't overlay both SFX in the same shot. Corrected with CGI.
The cgi shots of the ship are breathtaking. I’m alright with the rest. I am disappointed that I can often still see a hard matte line around people beaming up in the cgi version.
To be honest, I am a devout TOS fan, not the least for its aesthetics. This includes the original effects. (This also accounts for my lack of attention given to TNG.) Well, I’m still so used to it cut and scratchy on T.V., that any clean version blows me away.
Thank you so much for posting these comparisons. So enjoyable, as are the comments.
Now that I’ve seen this I gotta watch it on Netflix.
2:50 The original planet looked like the 1966 production team had their hands on CGI back then!
I wonder if anyone's ever noticed this, in the final shot, the landing party arranges themselves into a circle, they way they do in the transporter room. Firstly, is that really necessary? Secondly, there are 7 people beaming up at once, but only six operational pads in the transporter alcove. How did THAT work?
zoppie A. Multiple transporter rooms. B. They held one person in the beam until the pads were cleared.
OpenMawProductions right, most likely "B" held in beam
Scotty has 1 finger less, plenty of free room for more atoms to get beamed xD
@zoppie It's a science FICTON TV show. Jeez.
Did you notice how, in the opening establishing shot of the Enterprise moving left to right in front of the planet, the lighting of the ship in the CGI version is more wrong than it is in the original? In the original, the planet is lit from right of frame and behind POV while the ship is lit from slightly left of frame and behind POV, whereas in the CGI version, the planet is lit the same but the ship is lit from...above?? They had an opportunity to make it look like a REAL SHIP in space and didn’t do as good a job as they did in the 60s.
Seeing this episode was more a psychological thriller than action, CGI effects were unnecessary.
The end moment is improved: they leave the gate keeper behind without the credit graphics stopping the action every other moment.
Growing up I watched this episode on a B&W 📺 which gave the Guardian and the surroundings a more eerie quality.
Captain Kirk at his finest🖖🖖
awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, HELLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!
“The City on the Edge of Forever”
Story by Harlan Ellison
Teleplay by Harlan Ellison, Gene L. Coon, D.C. Fontana & Gene Roddenberry
Directed by Joseph Pevney
Produced by Gene L. Coon
Executive Producer/Creator: Gene Roddenberry
Original Airdate: April 6, 1967
Remastered Airdate: October 7, 2006
©️1967, 2006 CBS/Paramount Studios
What about the images within the Guardian? Where can I see a comparison of those differences?
As far as I can remember there were no differences
as a purist i prefer the originals, but for some scenes can't even tell the difference. like 2:05, what's the diff?
Nothing, that's just the intro to the changed scene. The way how I did these videos is - let's say you have shots A,B,C, where B was changed, I would fade in during the last 2 seconds of shot A, show you the shot B and fade out during the first seconds of shot C
I'm puzzled by 2:22. What did they do? It looks like they might have replaced the rock in the bottom left foreground... but I can't imagine why they would do that. I also liked the original effect better at 4:00. Still, this was pretty good. I even noticed the very subtle adjustments to the rocking of the ship at the start. Well done.
Did I count 7 in the beam up?
How did they make the planets in 1966? Were they real spheres or 2d surfaces moved behind a lens?
+ABW941 Actually many of the planets were a simple globe painted and lit differently for each week. They used also other techniques, Talos IV for example was a re-painted picture of the Moon.
Every time says “ We’re totally alone...” & looks up I keep expecting The Twilight Zone graphics to show up.
@3:11 the drop shadow added inside the screen bezel is too diffuse and actually is inappropriate since the illumination of the screen itself would wash out any shadow like that. It should have been in interior glow instead of a drop shadow. That's why it looks fake. Also would have run a sharpen on the matte because it wouldn't be at a different focus than the screen which looks much sharper.
Always found it amusing that Star Trek weapons "know" when to stop destroying matter. Like @3:55 why does only the hobo disintegrate? How did the overloading phaser know where his shoes end and the ground begins? They should have added a CGI crater.
self deletion was an original function of the small phaser? I hope they removed that feature in newer models? or at least offered a patch.
0:52 Why is that shot cropped in the remastered? I know they altered the shaky effect, but why crop the shot?
Andrew Chapman I actually didn't notice it until you pointed it out. Hard to say if it was necessary to re-create the shake or if it's an error
TrekkieChannel Who knows?
2:49 The planet has suddenly gone green with envy.
+Andrew Chapman I believe they stableized the shot and then did their own shake...but cropped it because they needed the extra margin (that was still there) to make that new shake...you can see that the shakes pull the image margins into the frame.
You know that final shot - where in the crew beam up - well the only problem w / that is there are only six transporter pads on the ship -NOT 7. !
+William Wright Ah, they can beam up more than just 6. Their molecules remain in the transporter beam and wait there until a pad is available.
So That's how it's done ! THX !
+Niko Papacosti I seem to recall the Enterprise beaming whole groups through their transporter on at least one occasion.
Didn't the Klingons once attempt to hijack the Enterprise by entering through the transporter?
Your explanation makes sense. Live long & prosper!
One of the best star trek episodes
This is one of my favorite Episodes. Real Science Fiction, as opposed to some of the cra* they put on some of the other episodes or the episodes in TNG
This particular episode of Star Trek was Written by the author Harlan Ellison.
And I must get finally to read his original version
TrekkieChannel It’s been available since January of 2015 as a graphic novel from IDW Publishing.
Harlan mentioned in a TV interview once that he originally wrote the script to show someone 'dealing illicit-drugs' on the Enterprise and this was TURNED DOWN by both Paramount and the NBC Network. So they changed it to being an 'accident' caused by a 'space storm.' My, how times have changed there, too. ;)
Okay.
One of the few episodes where a "Red Shirt" on a landing party didn't die.
The original zooming in on the planet during those couple of transitions is superior.
I prefer the original pre-CGI version, even the digitally remastered version of the 90's is preferable to the CGI version. As usual, they tended to overdo the CGI.
Then, at the end, 7 members of the away team were beamed up to a transporter room with only 6 pads.
So on the CGI side, there image on the tricorder is slightly magnified thus making what could be read a bit less visible like the title of the newspaper. Why would that be the case?
I assume it was done to hide the original black border
The CGI upgrades are good but what this episode really needs is a big musical number with lots of singing and dancing CGI aliens.
-George Lucas (probably)
Who is this Noman, he has been many places, is he related to Knowone?
I watched the remastered version shortly after it came out, not knowing they replaced most of the special effects. I immediately disliked it. A shame the original footage filmed with real models was lost. The new footage is intended to be discrete and complimenting the 60s style of the episodes. however, it comes off as really just bad cgi you would find in a 90s tv production
Well, the version with the original effects is on the Blu-ray available using the "seamless branching" feature. Some of the original effects elements still exist, some of them were released on the Roddenberry Vault box set from 2016
TrekkieChannel I’m just glad that they survived the test of time.
3:16 Am I the only one that thinks the original effect on the tv is far superior?
The planet is spinning even faster in the new version. Why do they make the planets spin at all? Seems like a lot of trouble for something that's wrong in the first place.
One thing I never noticed watching this episode for all these years...
At the end the Guardian tells them that they can have many journeys - let me be your gateway. Meanwhile we just watched what could happen when McCoy went back and changed history. Starfleet should make this planet off limits.
I guess that's the reason why it has just one sequel
Wouldn’t it be interesting if this was the start of the Terran empire for the mirror universe if Kirk and Spock failed to stop McCoy in another reality?
Too complicated!
Somewhere along the line, Shatner's reading changed from "civil-is-a-shuns" to civil-eye-za-shuns". Anyone know what the deal is with that? Thanks.
Number 1 episode of all
Such a strong episode in every way (script,acting, direction, story) CGI of the effects seems unnecessary. The bit I always remember is when Kirk looks up into the sky when he realises the Enterprise doesn't exist. I know the show sometimes got knocked for Shatner overacting but he puts in a strong performance in this episode (as do Nimoy, Collins, Kelley and Doohan). Personally my favourite story is The Menagerie pts 1&2 but You can see why City on the edge of forever is many peoples favourite episode. It's s a terrific example of how creative the show could be.
Why they never revisited the Guardian of Forever to me is a mystery. That's not to say they won't ever, but why hasn't it been done yet? Would have made a great TNG episode. The novel, Imzadi, proved that it could have easily been done. Even a feature film.
Forget TNG. It would have made a not great original ep. They already knew how to travel back in time and did so many eps before this! Sadly, in real life we never will. We will do many things in God's future but never time travel!
Star trek x ; the search for Edith !
I'd argue that most of these differences are negligible, at best. A couple looked better after, such as the front and side views of the Enterprise, particularly the nacelles, but the original rear view of the nacelles looked better, as did the planet views from space. 03:13 As far as the Tricorder screen failure, I liked the original better because it gave a far more of a sense of "Uh-oh, our lives are about to really take on a whole new level of 'suck' than we originally thought". The updated one looks like "Len, I thought it was your job to swap out the 'C' cells in the Tricorders at the end of each episode". The green planet at 02:53 was definitely better before someone decided to turn it into a basically a barren looking rock. 04:20 Same thing, except the green haze has been lifted and it looks like it could be alive now, but the updated one still looks like a dead rock. I'm torn on the disappearing guy at 04:00 though.
What's different when they come back, jumping through the Guardian?