Great video again kai! This is also applicable to toyota 80 vs toyota IFS (prado/fortuner/hilux/fj) comparisons as well. I came from an HDJ80 1996 to my now 4wd Fortuner and you hit the nail on the head with the solid axle vs IFS scenario. I'd like to point out though that my 80 series rode like a caddy but cornered like a bathtub on wheels.
Thanks! Although the legendary 80 series also has a solid front axle, it is mechanically different from the wrangler. LC80's front axle uses a radius arm setup while the wrangler uses 5 link. (The rear axles of both vehicle use 5 link though). The radius arm inherently bind more so it has less flex when comparing same level of mods. The radius arm will naturally provide better on road handling. That's why both land cruisers and the older G-wagons adopt this for their front axles. It is a more balanced setup for street and crawl.
Corners like a bathtub on wheels? Is that good or bad? My 80 corners like it's on rails, surprisingly tight radius off road. So all good here. Also, my lockers stay engaged for as long as I want them to be regardless how many times I turn off the engine. Does a Jeep or Bronco do that? My 80 came with hood struts. Does $60k for a Jeep or Bronco get one the same? My 80 will run with more than half the fuses removed/blown. Will a Jeep or Bronco do the same? I can remove any axle shaft on the trail in 30 minutes. I can run on a single axle shaft, front or rear indefinitely. Can one do the same in a Jeep or Bronco? Electrical trumps electronic all day long. What really needs to happen is a Rubicon to reach 30 years old. THEN see what's what. Odds are all that tech won't last. They're already struggling at 3 or 5 years old to maintain their 'advantage' provided by the cheaper, less robust tech at new. And the costs to maintain are way out of proportion to each other.
@@TinkerersAdventure So you're saying get a Jeep Wrangler, and then rip out that unreliable GM engine, and put inside a reliable Toyota engine instead ....? And when the Jeep starts showing other problems, like leaky roof, and funky electronics, to upgrade those to another brand also ?
Just so you know, this video is getting some very positive attention on Jeep forums for how well presented it is. Dark side or not, respect earned for being truly objective. Keep doing your thing, your content is awesome.
This is one of the best comparison videos I've EVER seen. Kudos for keeping it objective and fact-based. You respectfully acknowledged strengths and weakneses of both vehicles without resorting to any form of bashing. Great Job!!! You have just earned a subscriber 👍
@@treyroberts8124 I used to work for Firestone and Goodyear as a Technician. And let me tell you how 95% of auto owners don't properly maintain their vehicles.
Rubicon owner here. I’ve been on many a rough trail along with my buddy in a Tacoma. He’s been able to do every trail that I was able to do. My heavily modified Jeep requires constant repair work. I’m selling it and going with a 4Runner.
a machine is a machine and they're subject to breakdown regardless of manufacturer. It's the process and way it's modified that determine it's strength and/or weakness. Any machine will outperform the other if modified properly and not done in vain. Ford, Dodge, Ram, GM, Jeep, Toyota, Nissan, it doesn't matter. Do it right or get a bad feel for any particular manufacturer. Do it right and your ego floats like a helium balloon. Good luck with your new Toyota (and don't look back)
I literally just did the opposite lol. Traded my 2018 JKU for a 2005 4Runner w/ the 4.7L v8. I wanted something quieter, cheaper monthly payments, without an oil leak, without a roof leak, and that drove smoother down the road. Thanks for the comparison Kai!
@@Thecherokee4x4 you have the non-VVTI 4.7. I’ve had a 99 Land Cruiser and an ‘02 Tundra both of which had the non-VVTI 4.7 I agree that these aren’t much to write home about. The ‘05 with VVTI makes an additional 35hp and is quite an improvement, though.
You had an oil leak with the 3.6l? Did you make sure your oil filter housing wasnt being over torqued? Thats a huge issue and i own a 3.6l, lube techs over torque the shitty plastic housing. Should have been aluminum to prevent the issue in the first place
As a someone who as had a Jeep Wrangler, Subaru Outback, and a Toyota Tacoma, I can say with confidence that the Wrangler will always be the best off-road (low speed & technical), the Outback will always be my true love, and the Tacoma will always be the most practical to live with.
Once again an extremely well put together video. No crappy music, tasteful edits and information that is supported by evidence that you show. Absolutely the most underrated channel on youtube!
Great to see for once a non emotional, techincal review of the facts with proper evidence. Well done. There is a reason the Wrangler is selling so welll in the US despite the average press saying it is rubbish.
By far one of the best comparison videos I’ve seen. Just went wheeling today for about 7 hours and while the one Jeep amongst 8 other midsize IFS could still walk on everyone, the clunkiness and drivability was clear. If I had a dedicated off-road rig, it would be straight axle, but for having only one vehicle, IFS will do.
Same. I had to make the choice as well and went with the 4Runner specifically because 75% of my time in it is spend doing family stuff on road. It is also more than capable for my needs offroad (light crawling and moderate trails). If I was building specifically for off-road I would have gone with the Jeep.
Man, just keep making videos! I watched 5 of them, maybe the most non bias honest, and informative with no bs. Good job man. I’m going to keep learning from you. I’ve been light wheeling for about 20 years and just experiment with my tire pressure 😂. Just never had the funds to do what you guys do with your rigs, it’s awesome, and I really appreciate your detailed videos.
I've owned 3 Jeep xj and currently wheeling a Lexus gx470. I agree with your conclusion of jeeps being better for serious wheeling and toyota being a comfortable overlanding vehicle. Both great vehicles IMO
I’ve owned a jeep…I took very good care of it, driving it to work entirely. At 225,000 miles the engine failed, additional failures…. 4 window regulators, multiple c02 sensors, steering rack, several forward driveshafts (cv boot failure), heater core leak, clock spring for cruise control, front shocks , engine oil seal (front), alternator ….I now own a 4Runner for 2 years nothing to do but enjoy quiet ride. Jeep off road is unstoppable…but….practically speaking….using your head on trails…The Toyota lasts forever.
There’s an old saying in Africa and Australia, you may take any 4wd drive off roading but if you want to come back to civilization, do make sure you take a TOYOTA. 😂
@@nunyabizness9885 I -as a consumer - shouldn't care where my vehicle is made. It's the manufacturer's concern to deliver quality product, and chrysler is anything but the one that does.
YES! I've been waiting for your latest video since the last time! Far and away the best content in the genre. Great concluding segment as well. I do a lot of dune bashing in the UAE, and there's largely 2 camps - the Toyota (FJ, 4runner and Prado mix) and the Wrangled/Rubicon, including the latest 392 v8 that's just unstoppable. The Toyota guys all have the same issue - tires. Running 285/70 and the necessary mods to fit them, as well as bumper mods. The jeeps do tend to break down more often in the sand, usually 4x4 issues, steering issues, or frequent engine issues. They're tradeoffs, no solutions.
Thanks! How does the Jeep handle in sands? I’m very curious. I guess the sand is so soft and mushy so maybe the solid front axle handling would be “covered”? It’d be pretty different from dirt or gravel roads I suppose.
@@TinkerersAdventure the jeeps are more nimble and can change direction easier, for example whilst going parallel on a dune on an angle, they can successfully turn up the dune without losing much momentum due to the wheelbase being shorter. They can fit larger tires as well, giving more floatation. When riding the crest of the dune, they tend to be not difficult to control due to that short wheelbase. The axle does scrape the sand, but it's so soft it didn't really impact the handling. The 1gr-fe engine is stronger, than the 3.5 pentastar, doesn't overheat (even in 46c ambient Temps it's fine) and can climb farther, go higher, and remain on the crests with less skill. You can run it with the a/c on and not lose the ability to climb. Jeeps have an easier time in general, but everyone gets stuck eventually. They have an easier time of modding, with more options available. I'm in a Prado, because it's also my daily driver and the maintenance on the jeeps is just more hassle. The sand has no bottom. You float on it with 11 psi up front and 9psi in the back. Larger tires = better, but also needs more power, so the crazy guys chip their Toyotas (image, headers etc etc) and run in 4 lo 5th gear @ 139kph. Not an exaggerated figure. Some of them use the supercharger, and at that level of extreme skill and performance the 3.5 jeeps can't keep up, and the 392s leap to the fore, although again they're in the garage far more often. There are a few broncos and Suzuki Jimny's out there as well, as well as Ford raptors and Tundras, but the large trucks simply can't do the technical stuff at they get high centered and then you have to snatch recovery so often it's a bore.
Very good comparison! I've owned 6 Jeeps. 1 TJ Rubicon, 2 XJ's, 1 JK, 1 JK Unlimited, 1 XK. And also a Toyota FJ Cruiser. I took most of my vehicles off road (have some vids on my channel too). What I can say is, all the Jeeps and Toyota are great off road. Sure if you are doing some extreme rock crawling, or some very intense offroad, then the larger tires, better crawl ratio, and more articulation would probably be of benefit. But for 99% of people who purchase a vehicle like this, either one will do more than they ever get into. So, Toyota it is for the reliability!
Thank you so much for doing what most aren't and ignoring all the bells and whistles about touch screens and paint colors or badging, and getting to the real nuts and bolts most of us actually care about 🤙
This video is spot on! It really depends on what you plan to do with your rig. I sold my 19" JL Rubicon with 35' tires with 56k on it because I was afraid to leave town and get stranded with their new electronics. Did I go to Moab three times and have an incredible time, yes, but were there lights all over my dash that no dealer could ever figure out, yes too! I loved my Jeep, but was not interested in owning it with an expiring warranty. I now have a 23' TRD Pro Tacoma, will I be taking it back to Moab, probably not, but if I do I will not be doing the same trails my Jeep was on. And I am fine with that. But, light 4wheeling, snow and long logging roads are in my future and I am hoping my dash has no warning lights!
I must say. I love your channel. Clear and informative. I wish I found your channel sooner. I own both a 4Runner and an older Rubicon. Each one is a different tool that shines at what it’s intended for. I’m both a Toyota and Jeep fanboy.
I actually agree with the reliability chart and I still chose my 3rd gen runner cause I really don't spend much time crawling. Overlander side of things for me.
So true. I myself don't fall for high specs marketing as my starting point are MY needs....for overlanding I need reliability and reasonable tyre size (I don't go too big)..
@@purificator1004 Most Australian and South African overlanders only run tall skinny tires as they are more readily available in most parts of the world. Unlike big, wide tires (37" & up).
@@purificator1004jeeps handle larger tires pretty well. 35s aren’t much of a jump in diameter / weight. And for overlanding they’re available in most countries. We opted for the raptor size (35-ish) BFGs assuming that that tire would be pretty easy to come by throughout the Americas. But it turns out that even odd ball sizes aren’t too hard to come by (another traveler was able to get a new set of 37x13.5r20 in Medellin Colombia). I think a lot of the foreign travelers stick to smaller tires for multiple reasons. First it’s easy and doesn’t require modification. Second, many countries have significant restrictions on modifications. And third larger tires add expense and most overlanders tend to invest in travel over modifications. At the end of the day for overland travel finding the “perfect” vehicle isn’t as big of a deal as people make it out to be… in fact we might even switch to a Defender 110 for our next trip just to have more living space and to experience the Land Rover community for ourselves.
Once again I must commend you for another near perfect comparison. Your attention to the details comes easy I can tell but that doesn't change the amount of work involved in compiling such data. Thanks for your effort.
Excellent video, as always. Well done. One thing Toyota guys don't like to admit is that the Tacoma/4Runner is basically an ancient economy truck while the Jeep has been consistently updated and designed from the ground up for off-roading. I bought a Tacoma because I needed a truck and a daily driver. Having off-road capability is a bonus. But if I was buying a vehicle mainly for trails it would absolutely be a Jeep for all the reasons you described. I'm hopeful that the next gen Tacoma won't require body modifications to fit real tires. But they're never going to a solid axle so Jeep will continue to have that advantage. Keep up the great content!
I think that accurately sums it up in few words: primarily on road? IFS/Toyota. Primarily off-road? SFA/Jeep. I own a Jeep JKU, and I will say, the steering play issue is rig and build specific. Mine is largely fine. That said, if I wanted an overland/travel rig, I would probably end up with a Taco (or Tundra - to tow the jeep to and from off-road/rock-crawling parks :))
Your coment doesn't make any sense, if toyota is an ancient vehicle and jeep keep upgrading and still can't make it right, toyota is well known for is quality, 4runner is made in Japan completely, in one of the best plants in the world, you need more facts, toyota TRD been racing in dakar rallys for decades, one of the taughtes endurance races in the world, Chrysler quality is almost non existence.
@@rudyrey5600 I didn't say anything about quality or dependability. It is a very old design that has many limitations compared to a more modern chassis.
LMAO! pretty sad that an ancient economy truck regularly goes 200,000+ miles without major repairs and the so called "updated" jeeps keep breaking before 60,000 miles.
Super awesome video! I came from a 2020 Tacoma and went to a Jeep. The transmission was replaced at 40k with the torque converter for slipping between gears and the Toyota 3rd gen shudder I just couldn’t stand. Which got less noticeable with 93 octane which made me realize it was probably pulling engine timing causing the shudder feel.
On the jeeps, one thing that can really improve suspension up-travel is high clearance fenders, which are really easy to install and let you shorten up the bump stops. This can be worth a couple inches of travel! However you also have to make sure you don't run out of shock travel on the compression side.
Hey Kai, just wanted you to know that I've binged through every single one of your videos, including combing through the comments. I find your content to be so information-dense and valuable. I really appreciate the effort you put into your videos. They are near-perfect in their presentation. The summary in the beginning that lays out what's going to be covered, the concise and plainly-worded explanations, and the demonstrations using actual assemblies were invaluable in helping this beginning off-roader learn what he needs to before going down the deep-end in time and expense. I'm now working with a local shop to see what tire size I can get away with at full compression and throughout the entire steering range. Your discussion regarding caster and offsets in the IFS videos has helped me immensely. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've learned, minimal risk of interference is obtained by using a wheel offset that just allows the tires to clear the UCAs. Pushing the wheels outboard any more than necessary lowers clearance between the tire and wheel well during steering. Again, thank you for putting in the effort. Most of the guys I've spoken to said "just put in 33's and a 2 inch lift" and I'm glad I came across your channel before following that advice. You've been a massive help!
What steered you away from 33s and a 2 inch lift? Genuinely curious because I hear that a lot as well. But it's usually from reputable sources so don't see anything wrong with that advice. Thanks!
@@jamiethomas8975 The lift in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing, but as mentioned both in this video and in the IFS videos, relying on lift to clear larger tires only works if one doesn't expect to use the suspension's full range of articulation (i.e., you're not going off road). In an IFS vehicle, a lift kit doesn't change the suspension's range of motion; all it does it alter ride height within that range. So when your suspension flexes upwards, it is possible (and likely) that the wheels travel up to where they were before the lift. This means that if the tires rub without a lift, they will rub even with a lift if the terrain causes them to come up far enough. Hope this helps!
@@TinkerersAdventure your content is so vastly superior I wish you had time to do more videos!!! Any chance you have friends with the Chevy Colorado ZR2 or a Ford bronco to do comparisons on those?
@@shootinbruin3614 don’t forget that Tacomas on FJs still have a solid rear axle with extended bump stops and all. My 35s just barely don’t rub the top of my wheel well. But yea 35s or bust 😂
Very well done. One oversight worth mentioning: Higher vibration leads to faster component failure. Advantage, independent suspension, especially on washboard roads. But I'll still keep my Wrangler JK and Gladiator JT. And am happy to overland and hit difficult trails with Toyotas.
I bought a 2021 Toyota 4Runner TRD Pro. It was my first Toyota. Long story short, I didnt care for it for various reasons. Owned it for 10 months and traded it in for a Jeep Wrangler High Tide. No regrets whatsoever! The Jeep is here to stay! Love it!!!
Me being a guy that just went from a Wrangler JK that was pretty heavily modified to a Tundra TRD four-wheel-drive (I purchased a trailer and needed the towing capacity), I really respect this review. I loved my Jeep, but on the way to the trail I was constantly having to lag behind my Toyota buddies because of the sheer extra weight I had on my rig (RTT and overland gear), and the gearing. Now with my Tundra I feel like I have the best of both worlds (sorta). 😂😂
His second point is valid, but given that jeep took the effort to make the Mojave build makes the solid front axle show through. I took my Mojave over a desert road @ 60mph over a desert road in full control and not worrying about whoops, ruts, and washboard.
Toyota should do something like the 100/105 series with the next 4runner. Make a hardcore option and an overland option. But at this rate we'll be lucky if its not a 4 cylinder gas hybrid with fully independent suspension
Nice video! As a JL Rubicon owner I approve this message :) It is an addiction to easily modify a Wrangler and observe it become non-stoppable. I have a first-year refresh 2018 JL and had no problems whatsoever. ZERO. My only two concerns are 1) far from comfortable seats and 2) lack of proper noise insulation for higher speed hwy driving. But i can live with that. Love my Rubicon!
As an entry level car enthusiast who has only been working with on road cars, i find this video very informative for off roading vehicles beginners!!! Nice one!
Who says Jeeps aren't reliable? I have owned my 2013 JK Wrangler Unlimited Sahara for 10 years now and I have never had a single breakdown or mechanical repair. This Jeep has been all through the mountain trails in the San Juan mountains of Colorado, the high deserts of Arizona and Utah, Death Valley, and the Big Bend region of remote west Texas to name a few.
Nobody is saying there aren't some jeeps that will achieve high mileage without issue (if there are people saying this, then they are dumb). These anecdotes exist for all cars. However when looking at a large enough population of each of these vehicles is when the average reliability of the Jeeps will lag far behind Toyotas. I like both vehicles btw. I drive an FJ but I also love jeeps. I hope your jeep continues to serve you without issue.
We live in the Mojave desert. If you want to come back home alive Toyota is always the answer. Love Jeeps but I don't want any Chrystler shenanigans when it's 120f out on the trail with no cell service.... Great video ❤️
That's why many Jeepers have satellite phones, Lol. I go out to Mojave and Death Valley quite often in a single vehicle, Tacoma with over 285K miles, in 110+f and notice quite few lone Toyotas exploring whereas many Jeepers explore in groups. Tiger vs lions, you know both are capable 😄. Having said that, I was stuck for 9 hours in a nasty mud, trying to cross dry riverbed out in the westside of Death Valley a few years ago, bottomed out so no recovery board helped, had a winch but no solid trees out there😪, had a hi-lift but no good size rocks nearby😥, finally rescued by two passing Jeepers so I love seeing souped up Jeepers out there!
Love your content, very informative.!! I own an FJ and your videos have given me a realistic view on the limits suspesion mods can actually make on our yotas performance..saving me from wasting money 💰. Thanks bro !!
Finally an honest review by a Toyota guy 👍 I used to be a toyota guy, I love the old rusty Landcruiser diesels specifically the HJ61, that being said i got tired of dealing with rust, so i switched to the Gladiator eco diesel, & I couldnt be happier! My buddys all drive Toyota, even family...lol I am now the black sheep. My Gladiator does it all, Loaded with tools, I tow an overland trailer, daily drive on 37's and it does trails like a beast! I will say that solid axle is the way to go, and it can have a smooth ride if you do the proper upgrades and dont cheap out on the lift kit.
I'd say you nailed it. I own an 06 Tacoma and an 06 lj rubicon. I love them both! I'm hoping the next gen Tacoma closes the off road gap a little bit. Not sure it's possible but that's why the engineers make the big money. Both vehicles have been reliable but the Toyota has 300k on it and the Jeep has about a 100k. Basically I did a flurry of parts replacing and maintanance on the Jeep at 100k that I didn't need to do on the Toyota until 260k. Jeep gets 12 mpg and the Tacoma still gets high teens and 20 on the hughway.
I drove a rubicon across Nevada, Arizona and Utah and hated it on road and on trails. Off road it was very capable, that being said, I spend almost no time on rock crawling or anything that requires heavy articulation so I ended up buying a 4Runner instead and it does everything I need. Like you said, Wranglers win hands down in hard core off roading. Toyota is a much better mid range overall use vehicle.
I'm sadly with you on the ease of a Jeep build. I've owned and wheeled Jeeps in the past...and were beasts on the trail! But like you said..ride quality and Toyota reliability gets my vote! I'm not rock crawling or heavy trail riding anymore. So why would I own a rough riding..unpredictable jeep? As a mechanic who actually worked Chrysler Dodge Jeep..it was never a dull day on what broke on this line! Yet when I worked for Lexus...it made me glad to see how easy they were to fix for one. But that was due to all the beatings from the dodge and jeep side. So it's Toyota/Lexus for us!
Finally we have a Yota guy who can speak the truth! Solid front axle handles very differently, people can either hate it or just don't care. From my experience it takes less money to make solid front axle super capable; but it can be costly to make solid axles ride/handle well.
I put a $6500 suspension on my diesel Gladiator and it laughs at stuff my stock Raptor is pushed by. Then in slow speed it does stuff that would break my old tacoma. Best vehicle ive ever owned bar none
@@mattbrew11 I agree, I am very particular with handling and I did bunch of mods on my m3s. But when I was researching off-road vehicles I realized it's just impossible to have handling and capable at the same time. Bought jeep WJ and I went to little John bull, black bear and red cone pass. Then I sold it and bought a power wagon, I would just prefer the dark side lol
@@jeffk464 the Tacoma is light, if it were a 1 ton there might be need for concern. But 1/2 tons, Wranglers, even the Power Wagon have run coils for years and there haven't been any reliability issues out of them
I sold my FJ and bought a 75 K5 Blazer…dont need to smog anymore either..i can remove the top and make it full convertible..its currently running a rebuilt chevy 350 and its so simple and no crazy electronics..just reliable and easy to work on..i love my new K5 Blazer!!
What a professional comparison! I had a built 4Runner... spent allot on it and found out the hard way that it couldn't even compete with a sport wrangler! Now i have 23 XR Rubicon with half doors on the wait.. i cant wait :D but i do miss my 4Runner.. Both amazing rigs but yeah one is more suitable to everyday driving and the other is very very robust!
When folks ask me such questions I always first ask them, what do you ACTUALLY plan to do and where do you ACTUALLY plan to go. Because most of these folks I know reasonably well and I've heard their dreams a thousand times and then watched what they actually do in reality. The best way to save yourself time, money and aggravation is to be honest with yourself about what you're really going to use your vehicle for. Where the overwhelming majority of wishful thinkers go virtually any all wheel drive or 4 wheel drive SUV, Pickup or Crossover will be just fine if the owner will put appropriately durable tires on it and learn it's capabilities. You have to be a pretty serious off road fan to need even half the capability that Kai's FJ or Gene's Jeep has. A stock 4 Runner or Rubicon will cover almost anything short of a 4x4 play area. As others here mention you are the only person I have found making factual, unbiased and accurate videos about this subject. So many out there think they are more knowledgeable than they really are while others are just sloppy with their information. Still others are so biased and prideful that they can't bring themselves to give any information that might make their chosen brand look less than stellar. You do this the way it should be done and if we could get even ten percent of You Tube review channels to review like you do the internet would be a thousand times better place.
Fantastic video! What about the 80 series? Toyota, built tough, solid front axle, comfortable, drives smooth at 80 mph with 35s, etc. Mine only has a 2” lift and drove all over Moab, while the JL Rubicons in the group dragged their bellies on the rocks, haha. One of those had the Recon pkg too. There’s something special about the geometry on the 80 series chassis.
Agree. Solid axle Toyotas, whether 80s (old school, no longer sold), 70s (old school, still sold, but never in North America) are pretty hard to beat overall.
True. My FZJ80 didn't dragged its belly on the rocks like my JKU did thanks to the shorter wheelbase but the rear of it sure did. As for my JKU it didn't dragged its rear on the rocks lol. Just different breakover and departure angles.
@@jthor8373 too true! I got the 4x4 Labs rear bumper, and that helped a lot with departure angle. But I still drag back there. At least I don’t need to worry about it now though. That’s a tough bumper.
They probably want to keep the discussion focused on production vehicles (at least in the US). If you talk about 80-series then you can also start talking about SAS-ed 3rd gen 4Runners or YJ/TJ. It won’t end till you’ve gotten to the CJ2A :D
Well done sir! I have an FJ and just watched this out of curiosity sake. You did a really good job of comparing the two vehicles. Thank you for taking the time and sharing. God bless!
The funny thing is that our FJ’s will still be driving around and going on camping trips long after most Jeeps haven been traded in or are in the junk yard with major repairs. You can’t beat time & Toyota is the only one consistently winning that battle.
Don't forget about payload capacity for overlanding! The Toyota platform can handle a bit more weight than a wrangler 4 door*. Definitely love this video and it highlights the difference really well. For me, my Toyota can easily do easy to moderate trails, and is easier to drive long distance, and carry a bit more capacity than a 4door. Another factor that pushed me to Toyota was the jeep price. For 50k, you can either get a stock new Rubicon or a used Toyota with a big mod budget. Used jeep prices are insane! After it's said and done, I'm happy with my Toyota, and it can take me to the places that I want to go with the modifications that make life easier while overlanding.
They really can't load up a yota and go do a hard trail you will be blowing cvs, steering rack, bent tie rods. I know I've got a pig of a yota and selling it to get a jeep.
The points you make for off road reliability are great! I'm a big Toyota fanboy, and I very much enjoyed watching you bring a new dimension to something I had never considered.
In my country Landcruisers used as they supposed to. Both jeep and lc owners hit the repair shop almost at same rate. But Id argue that lc's have a little bit better engine and transmission. Still heard no major engine or transmission issues from both of them. But new LC 300 was a dissapointment
Another great video. Really like your careful analysis - especially the reliability vs difficulty curve. I wasn't thinking so quantitatively, but this is basically the same conclusion I came to last year when I sold my 6 month old JL Rubicon and bought a used Lexus GX470. One thing that really swayed my decision was reliability vs cost of ownership - which clearly favors the Toyota / Lexus vehicles. The revelation for me was that a well maintained GX is every bit as reliable as a brand new JL - even after 200k miles. And it will probably continue to be more reliable for another 200k miles. And after a lift, larger tires & wheels it's still less than half the price of the Jeep. And it is MUCH more comfortable - which keeps the boss happy! ;) And I don't have to worry about denting or scratching a vehicle that's paid for! If I was going hard core rock crawling I would have a jeep that was rebuilt from the ground up - otherwise I'm very happy with my Toyota product.
I also am a big Toyota guy (owned a 6 speed FJ Cruiser) currently owning an 80 series and 2.5 gen taco. I just recently bought a Jeep JK. I’ve put some miles recently on it both on road and off road and have begun to realize why people love them. 1) From the factory they are built to hit the dirt 2) Off Road support, and much more variety for modification 3) The body is built well, made to last 4) I do think they’re more quirky when it comes to reliability compared to a turn key Toyota 5) Uncomfortable on road trips compared to IFS Luckily I got a happy medium vehicle. Land Cruiser 80 series, solid axles and Toyota reliability.
I had a 1988 XJ with 1” lift and 31”s as construction site rig and I lived with it for more than 10 years, bottomed out all the time and I miss all those days.
The revenge of the sith clip is super appropriate. Toyota turned to the dark side when they stopped putting solid axles on their trucks. Your friend is still one with the force.
Excellent video! I have owned many different 4x4's. Use them for long expressway trips full of hunting gear, overland through Michigan's Upper Peninsula, and then hammer them off road to get to my hunting spots. You have hit the nail on the head, sir!
Great video my man. I really hope Toyota is paying attention and let’s the driver choose a bigger tire size without much modifications. Maybe even big tire friendly gear ratios.
I just wish Toyota would offer lower gears in their Offroad and Pro models (like Jeeps rubicon). Of course, moving the body mount back 2 or 3 inches would definitely be preferred.
Well put together video and I have to agree with your statement. Mild off roading/ overlanding/ daily driver = Toyota. More extreme off roading/ non daily driver = Jeep.
The huge difference for me vs a Jeep is the room inside an FJ. I’m 6’3 and 300lbs +. And the FJ has almost an unlimited amount of room vs the driver seat of a Jeep which feels like a coffin fit. When I set out to find my FJ, I was searching for the modern, reliable version of a K5 blazer. Minus a removable top, the FJ fully fills that space. At the end of the day I have the vehicle that will continue to stand out more and more as the years pass simply because the FJ isn’t the same vehicle that’s littered the parking lots of shopping malls across this great nation. Do I wish we had an 8 speed transmission to swap out. Most definitely. There is a rumor out there that Toyota FJ’s in early early 2006 production had over 100+ more HP and also had around 23MPG but due to the more power it was breaking the rear diffs and that Toyota de-tuned the FJ instead of beefing up the rear diffs making the FJ a pig on the highway and fragile in the ass end until the 2010 which they finally beefed up the rear.
Yes, even for a small guy like me, the wrangler interior feels a lot tighter. Great for avoiding trees on the trail and stick my head out the window for spotting tho.
Johnathan Ward from icon design made the prototype for Toyota, and they completely butchered his vision.... They asked for his help as a FJ cruiser restorer he knew what the enthusiast wanted .. Toyota claimed he had full creative control and they will produce for the most part what he will design them.... His words are that the production FJ is a complete POS as to what he created. They didn't use not one idea, component, or design element from his prototype, and Toyota completely ghosted him..... I assume you didn't pick TJ generation wrangler because of it's size? The last real and reliable wrangler. It's the perfect offroader no matter what variant you preference. Maybe the e46 m3 or the 964/993 of the jeep brand.
I have been a Toyota snob for 38 years literally. I have always admired the off road excellence of Jeeps and have much respect for them in general. This amazing analysis in this video has me truly appreciating that Jeep has continued to produce amazingly capable purpose built machines. 👍 to Jeep and 👍 up to you Mr. Tinkerer
Making videos like these is the first step to getting manufacturers like Toyota, Nissan, Ford, and Landrover to understand that solid front axles are actually what we want in our 4x4s.
@@DeuceDeuceBravo I really wouldn't say miserable... G wagons came with solid front axles until 2018. The major differences are steering vagueness and bump steer but overall ride is not much different. And i wouldn't limit it to rock crawling either... anything deeper than washboard bumps (even small-average ruts) will be smoother with a solid axle because the entire corner of the vehicle doesn't tip into the rut due to the vastly increased flex and downtravel you get vs IFS.
@@Shakshuka69 Fair points. But manufacturers are moving away from solid axles entirely - including rear axle - because the vast majority of buyers prefer a better ride/handling on the road. Even the Bronco went IFS. But there will always be Jeeps for the hardcore. I have friends with Wranglers and I couldn't tolerate that ride in a daily driver, but obviously that's subjective.
@@DeuceDeuceBravo This is true, however Australians are sitting on waiting lists to buy 79 series Landcruisers that are rough and barebones with optional air-conditioning for $120k aud ($75k USD!) so I think there's room for more than just Jeep in the market space. The Ineos Grenadier is (allegedly) coming to the US next year so it will be interesting to see how that does.
@@DeuceDeuceBravo I never understood why people make up percentages on how much a vehicle is used offroad. 98% is completely made up especially when you consider the life of a vehicle. Sure a brand new jeep might not see dirt it's first year but who's to say it won't see dirt down the road in the coming years? And solid axle ride quality can be totally fine if properly looked after. Unless you have a back made of glass?
As a 5th gen 4runner owner the toyota reliability only goes so far and at its best with a mild lift and 33" tires light to moderate off road situations. Going 35's and above combined with hard wheeling and is where all the problems start.
This was an amazing video, I have owned two Tacoma’s in the past, and recently switch to a jeep gladiator, he will never hear me, Trash Talk, the Tacoma truck, but I do prefer my gladiator
In my opinion that no one asked for. Jeeps will always be superior at off-roading more technical and extreme obstacles. But Toyotas are just so much more capable on road and MOST of us spend 90% of our driving on pavement. Additionally, I have taken my 4runner on many trails in CA, UT, NV, and CO and I have been able to keep up with the Jeeps just fine. But the Jeeps make some crazy obstacles look so easy, like VERY easy.
I agree. That’s why Bronco chose IFS was a great business move. For sure hardcore enthusiasts will talk it down as being “weak”, but general public will buy it and make Ford more money.
I don't know....my next door neighbor had a semi new jeep. I only saw it three times in one year. The other times it was at the dealer chasing a engine light. 🤷🏽♂️ Luckily, he sold it for a Lexus GX460.
Great video again kai! This is also applicable to toyota 80 vs toyota IFS (prado/fortuner/hilux/fj) comparisons as well. I came from an HDJ80 1996 to my now 4wd Fortuner and you hit the nail on the head with the solid axle vs IFS scenario. I'd like to point out though that my 80 series rode like a caddy but cornered like a bathtub on wheels.
Thanks! Although the legendary 80 series also has a solid front axle, it is mechanically different from the wrangler. LC80's front axle uses a radius arm setup while the wrangler uses 5 link. (The rear axles of both vehicle use 5 link though). The radius arm inherently bind more so it has less flex when comparing same level of mods. The radius arm will naturally provide better on road handling. That's why both land cruisers and the older G-wagons adopt this for their front axles. It is a more balanced setup for street and crawl.
@@TinkerersAdventure oh thanks kai! Didnt know the jeeps used a 5 link! I thought all solid axles were the same as the 80!
Corners like a bathtub on wheels? Is that good or bad? My 80 corners like it's on rails, surprisingly tight radius off road. So all good here.
Also, my lockers stay engaged for as long as I want them to be regardless how many times I turn off the engine. Does a Jeep or Bronco do that?
My 80 came with hood struts. Does $60k for a Jeep or Bronco get one the same?
My 80 will run with more than half the fuses removed/blown. Will a Jeep or Bronco do the same?
I can remove any axle shaft on the trail in 30 minutes. I can run on a single axle shaft, front or rear indefinitely. Can one do the same in a Jeep or Bronco?
Electrical trumps electronic all day long.
What really needs to happen is a Rubicon to reach 30 years old. THEN see what's what. Odds are all that tech won't last. They're already struggling at 3 or 5 years old to maintain their 'advantage' provided by the cheaper, less robust tech at new. And the costs to maintain are way out of proportion to each other.
@@samjohnson9894 What was the price point of the 80 back in the day? They where top of the line vehicles
@@TinkerersAdventure So you're saying get a Jeep Wrangler, and then rip out that unreliable GM engine, and put inside a reliable Toyota engine instead ....?
And when the Jeep starts showing other problems, like leaky roof, and funky electronics, to upgrade those to another brand also ?
Just so you know, this video is getting some very positive attention on Jeep forums for how well presented it is. Dark side or not, respect earned for being truly objective.
Keep doing your thing, your content is awesome.
Thank you. Glad to hear! I like keep learning from each other
This is one of the best comparison videos I've EVER seen. Kudos for keeping it objective and fact-based. You respectfully acknowledged strengths and weakneses of both vehicles without resorting to any form of bashing. Great Job!!! You have just earned a subscriber 👍
Jeep's 3.6L is supposed to be very reliable. Don't know about everything else.
@@jeffk464 like most modern vehicles, it's all in the maintenance 🤷🏽♂️
@@treyroberts8124 nobody maintains anything
@@JasonLee-lv7tm most probably don't, I choose not to be in that category lol. I'm beyond uptight about maintenance.
@@treyroberts8124
I used to work for Firestone and Goodyear as a Technician. And let me tell you how 95% of auto owners don't properly maintain their vehicles.
Rubicon owner here. I’ve been on many a rough trail along with my buddy in a Tacoma. He’s been able to do every trail that I was able to do. My heavily modified Jeep requires constant repair work. I’m selling it and going with a 4Runner.
a machine is a machine and they're subject to breakdown regardless of manufacturer. It's the process and way it's modified that determine it's strength and/or weakness. Any machine will outperform the other if modified properly and not done in vain. Ford, Dodge, Ram, GM, Jeep, Toyota, Nissan, it doesn't matter. Do it right or get a bad feel for any particular manufacturer. Do it right and your ego floats like a helium balloon. Good luck with your new Toyota (and don't look back)
@@d.s7741 say that to the faulty Kia engines catching fire, manufacturers do make an impact on reliability.
FJ owner here and appreciate the pros of jeeps
Bro watch out saying something like the the jeepers will come for you in the comment section haha
@@dylanandrew1122 - in the last industry I worked in we called it "operator error", but I didn't want to get all philosophical
I literally just did the opposite lol. Traded my 2018 JKU for a 2005 4Runner w/ the 4.7L v8. I wanted something quieter, cheaper monthly payments, without an oil leak, without a roof leak, and that drove smoother down the road. Thanks for the comparison Kai!
Ooo that v8. Man I want one of those
I have an 04 with the 4.7 V8... they are not impressive . They do fine but not a wow factor. The V6 actually has more HP and less tourqe.
@@Thecherokee4x4 you have the non-VVTI 4.7. I’ve had a 99 Land Cruiser and an ‘02 Tundra both of which had the non-VVTI 4.7 I agree that these aren’t much to write home about. The ‘05 with VVTI makes an additional 35hp and is quite an improvement, though.
@@sorrywrongnumber5280 I have two V6's, and they perform just fine.
You had an oil leak with the 3.6l? Did you make sure your oil filter housing wasnt being over torqued? Thats a huge issue and i own a 3.6l, lube techs over torque the shitty plastic housing. Should have been aluminum to prevent the issue in the first place
As a someone who as had a Jeep Wrangler, Subaru Outback, and a Toyota Tacoma, I can say with confidence that the Wrangler will always be the best off-road (low speed & technical), the Outback will always be my true love, and the Tacoma will always be the most practical to live with.
So which one win?
On my 4th jeep and had 4 Toyotas. If Toyota went straight axle, it would probably be 5th Toyota and not 5th jeep.
Once again an extremely well put together video. No crappy music, tasteful edits and information that is supported by evidence that you show. Absolutely the most underrated channel on youtube!
Thank you for making these videos. Nobody else is doing anything remotely close to what you are doing. Unbiased factual information.
Great to see for once a non emotional, techincal review of the facts with proper evidence. Well done. There is a reason the Wrangler is selling so welll in the US despite the average press saying it is rubbish.
By far one of the best comparison videos I’ve seen. Just went wheeling today for about 7 hours and while the one Jeep amongst 8 other midsize IFS could still walk on everyone, the clunkiness and drivability was clear. If I had a dedicated off-road rig, it would be straight axle, but for having only one vehicle, IFS will do.
Same. I had to make the choice as well and went with the 4Runner specifically because 75% of my time in it is spend doing family stuff on road. It is also more than capable for my needs offroad (light crawling and moderate trails). If I was building specifically for off-road I would have gone with the Jeep.
whats IFS?
@@quincy189 Independent Front Suspension
@@quincy189 independent front suspension
@5'2 legendary balding indian janitor I'm the dumbest person on earth and I know what it means.. independent front suspension
Man, just keep making videos! I watched 5 of them, maybe the most non bias honest, and informative with no bs. Good job man. I’m going to keep learning from you.
I’ve been light wheeling for about 20 years and just experiment with my tire pressure 😂. Just never had the funds to do what you guys do with your rigs, it’s awesome, and I really appreciate your detailed videos.
8:52 the one thing with that central dead space is that on a corrugated bumpy road you get less kick/bite from the steering feedback
I've owned 3 Jeep xj and currently wheeling a Lexus gx470. I agree with your conclusion of jeeps being better for serious wheeling and toyota being a comfortable overlanding vehicle. Both great vehicles IMO
Disagree. Properly set up Toyota’s can do any rock crawling a Jeep can do.
@@ZoneTelevision properly set up with solid front axles yes
I have owned 2 xj's and 2 wranglers. Nothing like an xj
@@ZoneTelevision but when the Yotas are built like that they cease from being what makes Toyotas so nice and reliable, and resembles more like a Jeep
@@bradlaflamme6127 Wellllll....... nothing like a TJ........... TJ and XJ are very similar but the TJ is a notch above.............
You have earned a subscriber just for broaching the subject of Jeep vs Toyota in a public forum. Cheers!
This is the best off-road/overlanding content anywhere. Meticulous, scientific, accurate, objectively unbiased. Thank you for your content, sir.
I don’t even have a four wheeler and I really enjoyed this video! I appreciate your factual and unbiased approach.
I’ve owned a jeep…I took very good care of it, driving it to work entirely. At 225,000 miles the engine failed, additional failures…. 4 window regulators, multiple c02 sensors, steering rack, several forward driveshafts (cv boot failure), heater core leak, clock spring for cruise control, front shocks , engine oil seal (front), alternator ….I now own a 4Runner for 2 years nothing to do but enjoy quiet ride. Jeep off road is unstoppable…but….practically speaking….using your head on trails…The Toyota lasts forever.
He's specifically comparing the Wrangler not the made in Mexico soft roaders Jeep pump out
What year of Jeep did you own? New or old when you bought it? Did you keep it on the pavement or ride it hard off-road?
225, 000 miles even Jeep won’t belive you. 😂
There’s an old saying in Africa and Australia, you may take any 4wd drive off roading but if you want to come back to civilization, do make sure you take a TOYOTA. 😂
@@nunyabizness9885 I -as a consumer - shouldn't care where my vehicle is made. It's the manufacturer's concern to deliver quality product, and chrysler is anything but the one that does.
YES! I've been waiting for your latest video since the last time!
Far and away the best content in the genre.
Great concluding segment as well.
I do a lot of dune bashing in the UAE, and there's largely 2 camps - the Toyota (FJ, 4runner and Prado mix) and the Wrangled/Rubicon, including the latest 392 v8 that's just unstoppable.
The Toyota guys all have the same issue - tires. Running 285/70 and the necessary mods to fit them, as well as bumper mods.
The jeeps do tend to break down more often in the sand, usually 4x4 issues, steering issues, or frequent engine issues. They're tradeoffs, no solutions.
Thanks! How does the Jeep handle in sands? I’m very curious. I guess the sand is so soft and mushy so maybe the solid front axle handling would be “covered”? It’d be pretty different from dirt or gravel roads I suppose.
@@TinkerersAdventure the jeeps are more nimble and can change direction easier, for example whilst going parallel on a dune on an angle, they can successfully turn up the dune without losing much momentum due to the wheelbase being shorter. They can fit larger tires as well, giving more floatation.
When riding the crest of the dune, they tend to be not difficult to control due to that short wheelbase. The axle does scrape the sand, but it's so soft it didn't really impact the handling.
The 1gr-fe engine is stronger, than the 3.5 pentastar, doesn't overheat (even in 46c ambient Temps it's fine) and can climb farther, go higher, and remain on the crests with less skill. You can run it with the a/c on and not lose the ability to climb.
Jeeps have an easier time in general, but everyone gets stuck eventually. They have an easier time of modding, with more options available. I'm in a Prado, because it's also my daily driver and the maintenance on the jeeps is just more hassle.
The sand has no bottom. You float on it with 11 psi up front and 9psi in the back. Larger tires = better, but also needs more power, so the crazy guys chip their Toyotas (image, headers etc etc) and run in 4 lo 5th gear @ 139kph. Not an exaggerated figure. Some of them use the supercharger, and at that level of extreme skill and performance the 3.5 jeeps can't keep up, and the 392s leap to the fore, although again they're in the garage far more often.
There are a few broncos and Suzuki Jimny's out there as well, as well as Ford raptors and Tundras, but the large trucks simply can't do the technical stuff at they get high centered and then you have to snatch recovery so often it's a bore.
@@randomuser6306 thanks for the insight! That is very cool. A totally different game from anything I’m familiar with.
Very good comparison! I've owned 6 Jeeps. 1 TJ Rubicon, 2 XJ's, 1 JK, 1 JK Unlimited, 1 XK. And also a Toyota FJ Cruiser. I took most of my vehicles off road (have some vids on my channel too). What I can say is, all the Jeeps and Toyota are great off road. Sure if you are doing some extreme rock crawling, or some very intense offroad, then the larger tires, better crawl ratio, and more articulation would probably be of benefit. But for 99% of people who purchase a vehicle like this, either one will do more than they ever get into. So, Toyota it is for the reliability!
I love the comparison. Honest and straightforward. Great Job.
Thank you so much for doing what most aren't and ignoring all the bells and whistles about touch screens and paint colors or badging, and getting to the real nuts and bolts most of us actually care about 🤙
This video is spot on! It really depends on what you plan to do with your rig. I sold my 19" JL Rubicon with 35' tires with 56k on it because I was afraid to leave town and get stranded with their new electronics. Did I go to Moab three times and have an incredible time, yes, but were there lights all over my dash that no dealer could ever figure out, yes too! I loved my Jeep, but was not interested in owning it with an expiring warranty. I now have a 23' TRD Pro Tacoma, will I be taking it back to Moab, probably not, but if I do I will not be doing the same trails my Jeep was on. And I am fine with that. But, light 4wheeling, snow and long logging roads are in my future and I am hoping my dash has no warning lights!
I must say. I love your channel. Clear and informative. I wish I found your channel sooner.
I own both a 4Runner and an older Rubicon. Each one is a different tool that shines at what it’s intended for. I’m both a Toyota and Jeep fanboy.
I actually agree with the reliability chart and I still chose my 3rd gen runner cause I really don't spend much time crawling. Overlander side of things for me.
So true. I myself don't fall for high specs marketing as my starting point are MY needs....for overlanding I need reliability and reasonable tyre size (I don't go too big)..
@@purificator1004
Most Australian and South African overlanders only run tall skinny tires as they are more readily available in most parts of the world. Unlike big, wide tires (37" & up).
Seems you need to watch 4wd 24/7 for some genuine overlanding.
@@travelinman482 255/75 - 85 17R is perfect for me and my 4Runner.
@@purificator1004jeeps handle larger tires pretty well. 35s aren’t much of a jump in diameter / weight. And for overlanding they’re available in most countries. We opted for the raptor size (35-ish) BFGs assuming that that tire would be pretty easy to come by throughout the Americas. But it turns out that even odd ball sizes aren’t too hard to come by (another traveler was able to get a new set of 37x13.5r20 in Medellin Colombia). I think a lot of the foreign travelers stick to smaller tires for multiple reasons. First it’s easy and doesn’t require modification. Second, many countries have significant restrictions on modifications. And third larger tires add expense and most overlanders tend to invest in travel over modifications. At the end of the day for overland travel finding the “perfect” vehicle isn’t as big of a deal as people make it out to be… in fact we might even switch to a Defender 110 for our next trip just to have more living space and to experience the Land Rover community for ourselves.
Once again I must commend you for another near perfect comparison. Your attention to the details comes easy I can tell but that doesn't change the amount of work involved in compiling such data. Thanks for your effort.
I have a 2018 Jeep JL. The best vehicle I have ever owned in my 61 years.
Hands down the best comparison on IFS and Solid Axle. Well done! Just subscribed!
Excellent video, as always. Well done. One thing Toyota guys don't like to admit is that the Tacoma/4Runner is basically an ancient economy truck while the Jeep has been consistently updated and designed from the ground up for off-roading. I bought a Tacoma because I needed a truck and a daily driver. Having off-road capability is a bonus. But if I was buying a vehicle mainly for trails it would absolutely be a Jeep for all the reasons you described. I'm hopeful that the next gen Tacoma won't require body modifications to fit real tires. But they're never going to a solid axle so Jeep will continue to have that advantage.
Keep up the great content!
I think that accurately sums it up in few words: primarily on road? IFS/Toyota. Primarily off-road? SFA/Jeep. I own a Jeep JKU, and I will say, the steering play issue is rig and build specific. Mine is largely fine. That said, if I wanted an overland/travel rig, I would probably end up with a Taco (or Tundra - to tow the jeep to and from off-road/rock-crawling parks :))
Your coment doesn't make any sense, if toyota is an ancient vehicle and jeep keep upgrading and still can't make it right, toyota is well known for is quality, 4runner is made in Japan completely, in one of the best plants in the world, you need more facts, toyota TRD been racing in dakar rallys for decades, one of the taughtes endurance races in the world, Chrysler quality is almost non existence.
@@rudyrey5600 toyota selling brand new vehicles in 2022 with drum brakes, 14mpg, and 5 speed autos determined that was a lie
@@rudyrey5600 I didn't say anything about quality or dependability. It is a very old design that has many limitations compared to a more modern chassis.
LMAO! pretty sad that an ancient economy truck regularly goes 200,000+ miles without major repairs and the so called "updated" jeeps keep breaking before 60,000 miles.
Super awesome video! I came from a 2020 Tacoma and went to a Jeep. The transmission was replaced at 40k with the torque converter for slipping between gears and the Toyota 3rd gen shudder I just couldn’t stand. Which got less noticeable with 93 octane which made me realize it was probably pulling engine timing causing the shudder feel.
On the jeeps, one thing that can really improve suspension up-travel is high clearance fenders, which are really easy to install and let you shorten up the bump stops. This can be worth a couple inches of travel! However you also have to make sure you don't run out of shock travel on the compression side.
The JL at stock can go up to a 37" if I recall. If not, definitely a 35". I think the fenders of the Rubicon is a tad higher.
@@williamlee7782 The North American Rubicon has high line fenders and can clear 37's.
Great job, the most objective Toyota vs. Jeep comparison for off road driving. Keep it up 👍
Love the clarity and information. Thanks
Hey Kai, just wanted you to know that I've binged through every single one of your videos, including combing through the comments. I find your content to be so information-dense and valuable.
I really appreciate the effort you put into your videos. They are near-perfect in their presentation. The summary in the beginning that lays out what's going to be covered, the concise and plainly-worded explanations, and the demonstrations using actual assemblies were invaluable in helping this beginning off-roader learn what he needs to before going down the deep-end in time and expense.
I'm now working with a local shop to see what tire size I can get away with at full compression and throughout the entire steering range. Your discussion regarding caster and offsets in the IFS videos has helped me immensely. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've learned, minimal risk of interference is obtained by using a wheel offset that just allows the tires to clear the UCAs. Pushing the wheels outboard any more than necessary lowers clearance between the tire and wheel well during steering.
Again, thank you for putting in the effort. Most of the guys I've spoken to said "just put in 33's and a 2 inch lift" and I'm glad I came across your channel before following that advice. You've been a massive help!
Thanks! And you summed it up perfectly. I will be making a video specifically on tire fitment. But you’ve got all the right ideas already!
What steered you away from 33s and a 2 inch lift? Genuinely curious because I hear that a lot as well. But it's usually from reputable sources so don't see anything wrong with that advice. Thanks!
@@jamiethomas8975 The lift in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing, but as mentioned both in this video and in the IFS videos, relying on lift to clear larger tires only works if one doesn't expect to use the suspension's full range of articulation (i.e., you're not going off road).
In an IFS vehicle, a lift kit doesn't change the suspension's range of motion; all it does it alter ride height within that range. So when your suspension flexes upwards, it is possible (and likely) that the wheels travel up to where they were before the lift. This means that if the tires rub without a lift, they will rub even with a lift if the terrain causes them to come up far enough. Hope this helps!
@@TinkerersAdventure your content is so vastly superior I wish you had time to do more videos!!! Any chance you have friends with the Chevy Colorado ZR2 or a Ford bronco to do comparisons on those?
@@shootinbruin3614 don’t forget that Tacomas on FJs still have a solid rear axle with extended bump stops and all. My 35s just barely don’t rub the top of my wheel well. But yea 35s or bust 😂
Can't wait to see what you do when your channel blows up.
Incredibly fair, objective and well laid out comparison. Kudos!
I really liked how objective he was.
Honest and spot on I’d say, I wheel with a 22 rubicon diesel and my brother has a 22 4Runner. I see both in action most weekends.
Very well done. One oversight worth mentioning: Higher vibration leads to faster component failure. Advantage, independent suspension, especially on washboard roads. But I'll still keep my Wrangler JK and Gladiator JT. And am happy to overland and hit difficult trails with Toyotas.
Well done comparison. As someone who owned a third gen Tacoma and now owns a Jeep Gladiator, you pretty much nailed it.
Agree 100%
I've owned both a 2018 Toyota and a 2014 jeep. You've got the nail on the head. I love both for two different reasons 😁👍
I bought a 2021 Toyota 4Runner TRD Pro. It was my first Toyota. Long story short, I didnt care for it for various reasons. Owned it for 10 months and traded it in for a Jeep Wrangler High Tide. No regrets whatsoever! The Jeep is here to stay! Love it!!!
Me being a guy that just went from a Wrangler JK that was pretty heavily modified to a Tundra TRD four-wheel-drive (I purchased a trailer and needed the towing capacity), I really respect this review. I loved my Jeep, but on the way to the trail I was constantly having to lag behind my Toyota buddies because of the sheer extra weight I had on my rig (RTT and overland gear), and the gearing. Now with my Tundra I feel like I have the best of both worlds (sorta). 😂😂
Best review I’ve seen
His second point is valid, but given that jeep took the effort to make the Mojave build makes the solid front axle show through. I took my Mojave over a desert road @ 60mph over a desert road in full control and not worrying about whoops, ruts, and washboard.
OMG I have both Tundra TRD Pro and JL Wrangler and could not agree more in every statement made in this video. I subbed.
Toyota should do something like the 100/105 series with the next 4runner. Make a hardcore option and an overland option. But at this rate we'll be lucky if its not a 4 cylinder gas hybrid with fully independent suspension
Nice video! As a JL Rubicon owner I approve this message :) It is an addiction to easily modify a Wrangler and observe it become non-stoppable. I have a first-year refresh 2018 JL and had no problems whatsoever. ZERO. My only two concerns are 1) far from comfortable seats and 2) lack of proper noise insulation for higher speed hwy driving. But i can live with that. Love my Rubicon!
I love it. This episode should go viral.
As an entry level car enthusiast who has only been working with on road cars, i find this video very informative for off roading vehicles beginners!!! Nice one!
Who says Jeeps aren't reliable? I have owned my 2013 JK Wrangler Unlimited Sahara for 10 years now and I have never had a single breakdown or mechanical repair. This Jeep has been all through the mountain trails in the San Juan mountains of Colorado, the high deserts of Arizona and Utah, Death Valley, and the Big Bend region of remote west Texas to name a few.
Nobody is saying there aren't some jeeps that will achieve high mileage without issue (if there are people saying this, then they are dumb). These anecdotes exist for all cars. However when looking at a large enough population of each of these vehicles is when the average reliability of the Jeeps will lag far behind Toyotas.
I like both vehicles btw. I drive an FJ but I also love jeeps. I hope your jeep continues to serve you without issue.
Love the thoroughness; informative and not at all boring. Great job.
We live in the Mojave desert. If you want to come back home alive Toyota is always the answer. Love Jeeps but I don't want any Chrystler shenanigans when it's 120f out on the trail with no cell service.... Great video ❤️
That's why many Jeepers have satellite phones, Lol. I go out to Mojave and Death Valley quite often in a single vehicle, Tacoma with over 285K miles, in 110+f and notice quite few lone Toyotas exploring whereas many Jeepers explore in groups. Tiger vs lions, you know both are capable 😄. Having said that, I was stuck for 9 hours in a nasty mud, trying to cross dry riverbed out in the westside of Death Valley a few years ago, bottomed out so no recovery board helped, had a winch but no solid trees out there😪, had a hi-lift but no good size rocks nearby😥, finally rescued by two passing Jeepers so I love seeing souped up Jeepers out there!
@@matrix-fh9tn have you seen that solo winch anchor ⚓️ shovel thingy? Basically you can use it to winch off the sand and mud... check it out
Hats off mate,that was the most objective review ever. Looked at the arguments from all angles. Well done
kai needs about half a million more subs. this kid is answering all the right questions, all the time.
as a Jeep Owner, this is an amazing video to watch
Great review.
I own a lifted 2013 Lexus GX460.
Wife owns a 2016 Rubicon Unlimited Hardrock.
Best of both worlds.
I just had a good laugh at you standing in the windows of the two vehicles, ⭐️nice work!
Love your content, very informative.!! I own an FJ and your videos have given me a realistic view on the limits suspesion mods can actually make on our yotas performance..saving me from wasting money 💰. Thanks bro !!
Finally an honest review by a Toyota guy 👍 I used to be a toyota guy, I love the old rusty Landcruiser diesels specifically the HJ61, that being said i got tired of dealing with rust, so i switched to the Gladiator eco diesel, & I couldnt be happier! My buddys all drive Toyota, even family...lol I am now the black sheep. My Gladiator does it all, Loaded with tools, I tow an overland trailer, daily drive on 37's and it does trails like a beast! I will say that solid axle is the way to go, and it can have a smooth ride if you do the proper upgrades and dont cheap out on the lift kit.
I'd say you nailed it. I own an 06 Tacoma and an 06 lj rubicon. I love them both! I'm hoping the next gen Tacoma closes the off road gap a little bit. Not sure it's possible but that's why the engineers make the big money. Both vehicles have been reliable but the Toyota has 300k on it and the Jeep has about a 100k. Basically I did a flurry of parts replacing and maintanance on the Jeep at 100k that I didn't need to do on the Toyota until 260k. Jeep gets 12 mpg and the Tacoma still gets high teens and 20 on the hughway.
I have to say you are very good at explaining things and not making anyone feel like they are doing it wrong!
I drove a rubicon across Nevada, Arizona and Utah and hated it on road and on trails. Off road it was very capable, that being said, I spend almost no time on rock crawling or anything that requires heavy articulation so I ended up buying a 4Runner instead and it does everything I need. Like you said, Wranglers win hands down in hard core off roading. Toyota is a much better mid range overall use vehicle.
I'm sadly with you on the ease of a Jeep build. I've owned and wheeled Jeeps in the past...and were beasts on the trail! But like you said..ride quality and Toyota reliability gets my vote! I'm not rock crawling or heavy trail riding anymore. So why would I own a rough riding..unpredictable jeep? As a mechanic who actually worked Chrysler Dodge Jeep..it was never a dull day on what broke on this line! Yet when I worked for Lexus...it made me glad to see how easy they were to fix for one. But that was due to all the beatings from the dodge and jeep side. So it's Toyota/Lexus for us!
Finally we have a Yota guy who can speak the truth! Solid front axle handles very differently, people can either hate it or just don't care. From my experience it takes less money to make solid front axle super capable; but it can be costly to make solid axles ride/handle well.
I put a $6500 suspension on my diesel Gladiator and it laughs at stuff my stock Raptor is pushed by. Then in slow speed it does stuff that would break my old tacoma. Best vehicle ive ever owned bar none
@@mattbrew11 I agree, I am very particular with handling and I did bunch of mods on my m3s. But when I was researching off-road vehicles I realized it's just impossible to have handling and capable at the same time. Bought jeep WJ and I went to little John bull, black bear and red cone pass. Then I sold it and bought a power wagon, I would just prefer the dark side lol
I'm pretty sure the new Toyotas will be less robust. They are going to a coil spring rear end
@@jeffk464 the Tacoma is light, if it were a 1 ton there might be need for concern. But 1/2 tons, Wranglers, even the Power Wagon have run coils for years and there haven't been any reliability issues out of them
I sold my FJ and bought a 75 K5 Blazer…dont need to smog anymore either..i can remove the top and make it full convertible..its currently running a rebuilt chevy 350 and its so simple and no crazy electronics..just reliable and easy to work on..i love my new K5 Blazer!!
Thanks!
Thank you for the support!
What a professional comparison! I had a built 4Runner... spent allot on it and found out the hard way that it couldn't even compete with a sport wrangler!
Now i have 23 XR Rubicon with half doors on the wait.. i cant wait :D but i do miss my 4Runner.. Both amazing rigs but yeah one is more suitable to everyday driving and the other is very very robust!
As others have said, well done Kai. Yet another excellent video.
When folks ask me such questions I always first ask them, what do you ACTUALLY plan to do and where do you ACTUALLY plan to go. Because most of these folks I know reasonably well and I've heard their dreams a thousand times and then watched what they actually do in reality. The best way to save yourself time, money and aggravation is to be honest with yourself about what you're really going to use your vehicle for. Where the overwhelming majority of wishful thinkers go virtually any all wheel drive or 4 wheel drive SUV, Pickup or Crossover will be just fine if the owner will put appropriately durable tires on it and learn it's capabilities. You have to be a pretty serious off road fan to need even half the capability that Kai's FJ or Gene's Jeep has. A stock 4 Runner or Rubicon will cover almost anything short of a 4x4 play area.
As others here mention you are the only person I have found making factual, unbiased and accurate videos about this subject. So many out there think they are more knowledgeable than they really are while others are just sloppy with their information. Still others are so biased and prideful that they can't bring themselves to give any information that might make their chosen brand look less than stellar. You do this the way it should be done and if we could get even ten percent of You Tube review channels to review like you do the internet would be a thousand times better place.
Outstanding review. Best I’ve seen.
Fantastic video!
What about the 80 series? Toyota, built tough, solid front axle, comfortable, drives smooth at 80 mph with 35s, etc. Mine only has a 2” lift and drove all over Moab, while the JL Rubicons in the group dragged their bellies on the rocks, haha. One of those had the Recon pkg too. There’s something special about the geometry on the 80 series chassis.
Agree. Solid axle Toyotas, whether 80s (old school, no longer sold), 70s (old school, still sold, but never in North America) are pretty hard to beat overall.
Thanks! I love the LC80s. I would love have a new 79 which we don’t get in the US.
True. My FZJ80 didn't dragged its belly on the rocks like my JKU did thanks to the shorter wheelbase but the rear of it sure did. As for my JKU it didn't dragged its rear on the rocks lol. Just different breakover and departure angles.
@@jthor8373 too true! I got the 4x4 Labs rear bumper, and that helped a lot with departure angle. But I still drag back there. At least I don’t need to worry about it now though. That’s a tough bumper.
They probably want to keep the discussion focused on production vehicles (at least in the US). If you talk about 80-series then you can also start talking about SAS-ed 3rd gen 4Runners or YJ/TJ. It won’t end till you’ve gotten to the CJ2A :D
Well done sir! I have an FJ and just watched this out of curiosity sake. You did a really good job of comparing the two vehicles. Thank you for taking the time and sharing. God bless!
The funny thing is that our FJ’s will still be driving around and going on camping trips long after most Jeeps haven been traded in or are in the junk yard with major repairs. You can’t beat time & Toyota is the only one consistently winning that battle.
Don't forget about payload capacity for overlanding! The Toyota platform can handle a bit more weight than a wrangler 4 door*.
Definitely love this video and it highlights the difference really well. For me, my Toyota can easily do easy to moderate trails, and is easier to drive long distance, and carry a bit more capacity than a 4door.
Another factor that pushed me to Toyota was the jeep price. For 50k, you can either get a stock new Rubicon or a used Toyota with a big mod budget. Used jeep prices are insane! After it's said and done, I'm happy with my Toyota, and it can take me to the places that I want to go with the modifications that make life easier while overlanding.
A JLU Rubicon has a higher payload than a Tacoma TRD off road-- 1350 compared to 1100 pounds for the Tacoma.
The used jeep market being so high in some ways makes it high used price a wash buy high and sale high.
They really can't load up a yota and go do a hard trail you will be blowing cvs, steering rack, bent tie rods. I know I've got a pig of a yota and selling it to get a jeep.
The points you make for off road reliability are great! I'm a big Toyota fanboy, and I very much enjoyed watching you bring a new dimension to something I had never considered.
So here in Australia, the word is, if you want to go into the outback get a Jeep. If you want to come out again, get a Toyota.
I thought that was a saying for a Defender and Land Cruiser. Lol
You failed to mention that Genes Rubicon Xtreme Recon is $75K MSRP and if you live where I live, those will sell with an additional $10K markup.
In my country Landcruisers used as they supposed to. Both jeep and lc owners hit the repair shop almost at same rate. But Id argue that lc's have a little bit better engine and transmission. Still heard no major engine or transmission issues from both of them. But new LC 300 was a dissapointment
Man... another EXCELLENT video. I love the way you break down all of these categories.
Another great video. Really like your careful analysis - especially the reliability vs difficulty curve. I wasn't thinking so quantitatively, but this is basically the same conclusion I came to last year when I sold my 6 month old JL Rubicon and bought a used Lexus GX470. One thing that really swayed my decision was reliability vs cost of ownership - which clearly favors the Toyota / Lexus vehicles. The revelation for me was that a well maintained GX is every bit as reliable as a brand new JL - even after 200k miles. And it will probably continue to be more reliable for another 200k miles. And after a lift, larger tires & wheels it's still less than half the price of the Jeep. And it is MUCH more comfortable - which keeps the boss happy! ;) And I don't have to worry about denting or scratching a vehicle that's paid for! If I was going hard core rock crawling I would have a jeep that was rebuilt from the ground up - otherwise I'm very happy with my Toyota product.
Best Jeep vs Toyota video ever. You just got a new subscriber. Good job! ❤
Awesome video. Never been a Jeep guy but after going along on on some pretty challenging trails in a friend's Jeep I definitely understand the appeal.
This is the best video I have seen on this comparison. Great job!! I like both brands for exactly your reasons. Take care.
I also am a big Toyota guy (owned a 6 speed FJ Cruiser) currently owning an 80 series and 2.5 gen taco.
I just recently bought a Jeep JK. I’ve put some miles recently on it both on road and off road and have begun to realize why people love them.
1) From the factory they are built to hit the dirt
2) Off Road support, and much more variety for modification
3) The body is built well, made to last
4) I do think they’re more quirky when it comes to reliability compared to a turn key Toyota
5) Uncomfortable on road trips compared to IFS
Luckily I got a happy medium vehicle. Land Cruiser 80 series, solid axles and Toyota reliability.
I had a 1988 XJ with 1” lift and 31”s as construction site rig and I lived with it for more than 10 years, bottomed out all the time and I miss all those days.
The revenge of the sith clip is super appropriate. Toyota turned to the dark side when they stopped putting solid axles on their trucks. Your friend is still one with the force.
This is the first video of yours that I’ve watched and it’s the best comparison video I’ve seen in a long time.
As always, great review Kai! Can not believe Gene gave up his FJ! But, factory 37’s, that’s also hard to pass up!
Excellent video! I have owned many different 4x4's. Use them for long expressway trips full of hunting gear, overland through Michigan's Upper Peninsula, and then hammer them off road to get to my hunting spots. You have hit the nail on the head, sir!
Great video my man. I really hope Toyota is paying attention and let’s the driver choose a bigger tire size without much modifications. Maybe even big tire friendly gear ratios.
I just wish Toyota would offer lower gears in their Offroad and Pro models (like Jeeps rubicon). Of course, moving the body mount back 2 or 3 inches would definitely be preferred.
This dude rules... I love history technical reviews!!!!
Well put together video and I have to agree with your statement. Mild off roading/ overlanding/ daily driver = Toyota. More extreme off roading/ non daily driver = Jeep.
Best and most detailed explanation of IFS vs live axle I've ever seen. Thank you!
The huge difference for me vs a Jeep is the room inside an FJ. I’m 6’3 and 300lbs +. And the FJ has almost an unlimited amount of room vs the driver seat of a Jeep which feels like a coffin fit. When I set out to find my FJ, I was searching for the modern, reliable version of a K5 blazer. Minus a removable top, the FJ fully fills that space. At the end of the day I have the vehicle that will continue to stand out more and more as the years pass simply because the FJ isn’t the same vehicle that’s littered the parking lots of shopping malls across this great nation. Do I wish we had an 8 speed transmission to swap out. Most definitely. There is a rumor out there that Toyota FJ’s in early early 2006 production had over 100+ more HP and also had around 23MPG but due to the more power it was breaking the rear diffs and that Toyota de-tuned the FJ instead of beefing up the rear diffs making the FJ a pig on the highway and fragile in the ass end until the 2010 which they finally beefed up the rear.
Yes, even for a small guy like me, the wrangler interior feels a lot tighter. Great for avoiding trees on the trail and stick my head out the window for spotting tho.
Johnathan Ward from icon design made the prototype for Toyota, and they completely butchered his vision.... They asked for his help as a FJ cruiser restorer he knew what the enthusiast wanted .. Toyota claimed he had full creative control and they will produce for the most part what he will design them.... His words are that the production FJ is a complete POS as to what he created. They didn't use not one idea, component, or design element from his prototype, and Toyota completely ghosted him..... I assume you didn't pick TJ generation wrangler because of it's size? The last real and reliable wrangler. It's the perfect offroader no matter what variant you preference. Maybe the e46 m3 or the 964/993 of the jeep brand.
I have been a Toyota snob for 38 years literally. I have always admired the off road excellence of Jeeps and have much respect for them in general. This amazing analysis in this video has me truly appreciating that Jeep has continued to produce amazingly capable purpose built machines. 👍 to Jeep and 👍 up to you Mr. Tinkerer
Making videos like these is the first step to getting manufacturers like Toyota, Nissan, Ford, and Landrover to understand that solid front axles are actually what we want in our 4x4s.
For rock crawling, sure. But 98% of them are daily drivers that rarely leave the road and solid front axles are miserable for daily driving.
@@DeuceDeuceBravo I really wouldn't say miserable... G wagons came with solid front axles until 2018. The major differences are steering vagueness and bump steer but overall ride is not much different. And i wouldn't limit it to rock crawling either... anything deeper than washboard bumps (even small-average ruts) will be smoother with a solid axle because the entire corner of the vehicle doesn't tip into the rut due to the vastly increased flex and downtravel you get vs IFS.
@@Shakshuka69 Fair points. But manufacturers are moving away from solid axles entirely - including rear axle - because the vast majority of buyers prefer a better ride/handling on the road. Even the Bronco went IFS. But there will always be Jeeps for the hardcore.
I have friends with Wranglers and I couldn't tolerate that ride in a daily driver, but obviously that's subjective.
@@DeuceDeuceBravo This is true, however Australians are sitting on waiting lists to buy 79 series Landcruisers that are rough and barebones with optional air-conditioning for $120k aud ($75k USD!) so I think there's room for more than just Jeep in the market space. The Ineos Grenadier is (allegedly) coming to the US next year so it will be interesting to see how that does.
@@DeuceDeuceBravo I never understood why people make up percentages on how much a vehicle is used offroad. 98% is completely made up especially when you consider the life of a vehicle. Sure a brand new jeep might not see dirt it's first year but who's to say it won't see dirt down the road in the coming years? And solid axle ride quality can be totally fine if properly looked after. Unless you have a back made of glass?
I had a JL but traded it in for a GX460. I am glad to switch the large tires for reliability. Too many trips to the garage to fix.
As a 5th gen 4runner owner the toyota reliability only goes so far and at its best with a mild lift and 33" tires light to moderate off road situations. Going 35's and above combined with hard wheeling and is where all the problems start.
This was an amazing video, I have owned two Tacoma’s in the past, and recently switch to a jeep gladiator, he will never hear me, Trash Talk, the Tacoma truck, but I do prefer my gladiator
In my opinion that no one asked for. Jeeps will always be superior at off-roading more technical and extreme obstacles. But Toyotas are just so much more capable on road and MOST of us spend 90% of our driving on pavement. Additionally, I have taken my 4runner on many trails in CA, UT, NV, and CO and I have been able to keep up with the Jeeps just fine. But the Jeeps make some crazy obstacles look so easy, like VERY easy.
I agree. That’s why Bronco chose IFS was a great business move. For sure hardcore enthusiasts will talk it down as being “weak”, but general public will buy it and make Ford more money.
Cannot say enough good things about this video! Great work!
I don't know....my next door neighbor had a semi new jeep. I only saw it three times in one year. The other times it was at the dealer chasing a engine light. 🤷🏽♂️ Luckily, he sold it for a Lexus GX460.