I realize I didn't make the point succinctly enough towards the end, but the issue with Zhang Jue is while he's a good unit, he's poor replacement for having viable low star buffer options like Shakespeare, Mozart, or Xu Fu. As such I saw the issues facing quick to be staying power without the help of other card type units, node structure making block charges suboptimal, and a lack of support options at both high and low rarities. Thank you for coming to my Khad Talk. 🤣 What would you like to see Quick as a system get in terms of QoL or new units?
One specific area in which I've had qualms with in regards to quick is primarily due to the excess amount of stars found within a quick comp, which more or less just got boosted by the fact that mighty chain got introduced along with giving quick the stars passive around less than a year ago, and I've thought about it time and time again about how theres still steps needed to make quick so much better in order to compete, which just kept on getting reinforced by S. Skadi and Kuku from what I can namely remember. Starting with S. Skadi first, it was a good step towards improving quick, however I'm really bothered by the amount of extra versatility of her skills, the downtime related interactions, and her NP. Her skills are really solid, it offers various cards to the table for quick and buster, with the part being that bothers me is the buster aspects found within her kit, buster already has no LACK of the features found within her kit, along with the fact being there wasn't really any demand for Quick-Buster centric supports due to how weak quick just is when compared to the Arts and Buster whilst having more and better options which makes them both more complete in comparison, Koyan for looping+skill/cd charger+buster starbomb and starweight + buster FC onhit NP charge, Castoria (nothing here needs to be said, best unit in the game with immense flexibility due to her skillset and support potential), Oberon the closest thing we have to a support for all classes, but more or less revolves around Buster, with Arts being next just because of the better options and choices available when compared to quick. Yammering on and on about this would be pointless as I've gotten the point across, but there was just no need to have made S. Skadi like this because quick has no excelling areas, along with lacking flexibility and support throughout all kinds of fights due to the small selection of units available. With what S. skadi offered to the table in regards to the usual quick comps filled a little of what was missing from quick team comps in regards to damage, np, and quick itself as a card. You can say that she provided a good foothold to cement a 2nd path in regards to what to do in the middle of turns where skills are on downtime, but it was simply lacking with how she was designed. She gives more extra stars for.. Buster? You use those stars for your dps to do.. Buster crits? On a Quick team? The more you look the quick-buster just shows, her kit wants you to utilize Buster crits as much as possible for your dps while keeping the quick part of normal Skadi. She did not help giving Quick cement itself as another option due to these facts, which leads me to my next point to show just how much is lacking in Quick. S. Skadi being a AoE NP was just quite horrible to see, due to the fact that Quick lacks in supportive identity for its units, aside from the first Skadi. The main issue with quick is the cooldowns and what to do with stars are found. My points with how many options Buster and Arts has in compared with Quick is because their options allow them to make utilize the strengths of both card types more fully. Buster has the options to tackle skill downtime to the nature of its card type of dealing the most damage, while also using crits and NP-related things to its benefit, along with the dps options being protected due to the supports present being able to help immensely, which more or less coincides with how Arts is too, just switch it out with the less damage and more NP type shenanigans, along with them also having the options just leaves Quick in the dust. For the majority of the game there is just disfavorability towards Quick due to them having a smaller amount of things to utilize in tackling their weaknesses such as nothing to do with extra stars, cooldown downtime issues, damage, along with regards to NP. The extra stars are just all wasted, no creativity in regards to that aspect. Cooldown issues apparent when there are various aspects about Quick supports need facecards of the dps in order to function properly for a good portion which is said in the video, entirely RNG. They made Quick into this problem where it is lacking steps on what you should do with it. On your downtime with Buster you can use your supports to charge their NPs, or you can do damage with your main unit or a mix of the two. With Arts you keep on spamming as much NPs which synergize with keeping charge for all units due to all of them benefitting NP wise from the blue buttons. With quick you don't really have anything which utilizes their downtime, you can create more stars to crit more, but it still hits relatively less in comparison to Buster, and sure as hell doen't generate NP as much as arts, they also don't address their survivability issues in such, they don't really have a Castoria nor Merlin equivalent from them. You really just make more stars to try and crit, make damage and NP-related actions if rng is generous, until you have your skills up. There really just isn't anything that can make Quick stand as a complete card. My suggestions would prolly be making a new function in with Quick alone as the center as the other card types do not need it, and would help Quick find its identity. Something like Kuku functionality would be quite good for dps, but it also needs to fundementally change Quick as a whole by expanding the usage of stars and adding more, creative options in regards to dps and supports. For starters, we can dwell upon the the lacking aspect of survivability and downtime while keeping the damage and NP of current quick by making a unit that focuses around lowering cd for the entire team, while using a Merlin kit and NP, which you can then sacrifice stars for to add to the effect of the NP, however would increase this unit's base cooldown by one. Doesn't need to be exact but there just needs to be more options revolving around what quick lacks in. The star concerns should also be addressed possibly through making an NP in which lets you use it to deal damage and generate stars to be able to double crit for 3 turns or sumn for specific unit, look to something like Warframe's critical damage design, with the next turn being able to change 3 cards into all quick or possibly 2quick 1buster/arts divided card through discarding stars for three turns also, with you being offered the option to normally NP without the doublecrit function for versatility of supports and the unit also has a star gathering skill etc. There really needs to be more options and new additions to Quick.
Quick definitely needs more supports, low rarities especially for sure, but I think it really needs a support that buffs np gain and I don't understand why that's so hard for lasengle to understand
The only issue I have with NP gain on quick is that it simply is already fairly low for the card type. Combined with oddly structured nodes, quick isn't always going to have 3 enemy sets to bail them out in that regard. It's partly why I think the future for quick won't improve much until we get a true devoted party charger.
@@Khadroth It does have lower np gen than arts for sure, but arts supports having np gain and quick not just magnifies the issue further and creates more divide that could be remedied
An "np gain" support won't fix Quick's problems. It'll just cement Quick in place as an inferior form of Arts. Quick's problem is moreso with it's identity; what it does best simply has no value compared to Buster and Arts. A major card-work rework is needed to balance Quick, not another meta support.
@@kun2588 always on board the 'quick needs an identity of its own' idea. Why not make a support that enables farming based on stars produced. Like Koyan enabled buster nps that were supposed to one burst and done, arts got castoria that lets it be looping back to back, why shouldn't quick have some support that reinforces its identity
Let's not forget that they still have yet to give us a reason to have more than 50 stars. When I used my Zerkerlot back in the day I often found myself with 99+ stars and no sure way to capitalize on them. Imo, they should change the Crit Star mechanics as well. For example: *Allow us to save our stars instead of using them for nothing on bad turns. *Give us the option to convert stars into NP Charge and/or Healing/Buffs. *Consume stars to guarantee cards for a turn. Let's say, 5 stars per card you pick. That would fix bad card RNG, wasting stars when you don't need them, not having anything to do with leftover stars and NP charge / healing issues. All that being said, I am not a game dev, and like you said, there are a lot of ways to get stars, so I have no idea how would they balance it.
Really like the idea of spending stars for something, or getting buffs from having a lot of them. I think that making so that stars beyond 50 started boosting your crit damage would be a cool buff. Or honestly, just making it so that crit damage increases with the number of stars you have in general, not just beyond 50 (maybe the effect could dramatically increase beyond 50). Right now the optimal number of stars to have is the bare minimum needed to make your dps land buster/arts crits consistently, which is not many if they have a star absorb steroid; it's an amount that is pretty easy to obtain without ever touching a quick card. I think that quick card's identity is tied very closely with crit playstyles, so providing crit benefits would be a big improvement. This change would let both improve the damage viability of quick cards themselves, as well as make them an actually useful tool for setting up insane buster crit turns. But this is just me wildly coming up with ideas haha, I don't know if these would actually work in practice.
The way i look at what they've been doing is that they want to make each card type deal with things in a way different from each other, and they quite got it with buster and arts being two systems (at least for what i see since i only play NA) equally viable but that work in completel different ways, and when i look at summer skadi and the quick system nowadays, i feel that they're trying to create the "quick way", but can't exactly get it to work. What i think they're heading towards is: -Arts having a lot of spread charge and refund, making it able to use double attackers settups -Buster don't caring about refund but being a lot more restrictive on the way it works. -Quick being a system that integrate carding on their gameplay, having worst refund than arts and the restrictive block charges of buster, but breing able to have a good card performance no matter what cards they have on their hand And that's the reason i think quick DPSs have all this support capabilities, to make the supports able to hit hard too, maybe not as much as the dps itself, but being able to crit some minor enemies/break bars down, making all 3 units capable of dealing a decent to good damage, instead of the other systems where the difference between the damage the dps does and the support does are so big. Because of that i don't think they will ever give some big party wide charge to quick, or rather, the reason they didn't gave party charge do summer skadi already, and when they give party charge to quick it is heavily restrictive (like with Don Quixote's 3rd skill), because they don't want quick to be too similar to arts in how it works, what i think they might do is maybe give a quick support that gives 15%-20% charge per turn to the party or something like that, but i don't think they will make a castoria like charger for quick. This doesn't mean quick doesn't need a dedicated healer or a low star support tho, it absolutely needs.
I would personally just lean into Quick's original niche of star generation and tinker with the star system itself. Primarily, if we're going to have so many sources of stars, then generating over 50 should be something that actually benefits the team instead of going to waste. Whether those extra stars persist over subsequent turns or whether you can get "double crits," both solutions would work, but in either case, I would then simply blanket double the effectiveness of Quick card stargen at each stage of the chain and remove the game's weird hard limits on star generation per hit count. I would also like to introduce a Mystic Code with both a swap and a skill that lets you draw a single servant's entire hand, but that's probably asking for too much.
Tbh i feel the "solution" is to simply make a support that complements Skadi rather than another one A divided battery, as you said, but also healing or any form of sustain, since Skadi is basically a all offense, no defense, so the quick units depends on their own kits, like Achilles' invul or Atalante's evade, while Castoria had Around Caliburn and Merlin is Merlin. Perhaps Johanna or another quick-related character like Patroclus could come to be the "healer" with maybe a more spamable evade/invul, healing over time and so on. They could also benefict from ripping off Kuku's "pay stars for more effects" idea and NP gain buffs too
In my opinion we need 3 more Quick supports in the game. A low rarity quick support A high party charge NP quick support And a more defensive Merlin style quick support, one not used for farming but for long lasting fights. Quick has no staying power
I really like the way they designed Sen no Rikyuu's kit and wish they'd adopt some of her things into the big green supports. Increasing the np gain of specifically quick cards, or having an attack up/def down when using quick cards (preferably before damage). Heck having a flat gains when using green cards, like Dioscuri, would also really help looping. If they really want to lean into quick being the best star generator, they could add an additional battery that consumes stars and gives charge. Basically every quick looper makes 30+ stars easily, and a lot of them make an excessive amount of stars. You can't use all of them anyway, so converting that into some much needed gauge would an interesting way to address the refund issue. The skill has a built in demerit and an inflexible starting condition, meaning it would be a supplementary (wave 2-3) battery, so you'd still need some measure of starting gauge. Summer Skadi was a...way to go about fixing quick. It is nice that you have a secondary dps option in buster crits, but it doesn't do anything about the struggle to loop. Breaking up batteries would help, but I'd really rather they push increasing the np gain of quick cards, since the largest issue is usually refund. This comment is already way too long, but I want to point out that Alexander is really the only budget quick support, and it's middling support anyway. Buster has Shakespeare and (arguably) Chen gong. Arts just got Xufu, a budget Castoria, and they already had Mozart and Paracelsus. There's several generic (non card specific) supports, like Mata Hari, Hans, and Bartholomew. Quick isn't hurting for supports who can also do damage; it's hurting for support. If you read this far, make sure you stay hydrated and have a great rest of your day lol
Bro on Jp 3-3 is dead every node is like 1-1 now and np isn’t the only way to farm now and it just so happens that because of all the stars and crit damage quick and buster servants can just crit a wave instead of relying on np or even np gain. The last thing any card type needs is a way to 3-3 loop.
@@6ToesHeACreature Unless I'm misremembering, 90++ are as irregular as 90+ nodes. There's all kinds of variations of layouts, but the health values necessitate either nps or crits, each with a lot of buffs. Given that the two premier quick supports only buff the crit damage of one type of card each and the way cards are subject to rng, its entirely possible to not have the right cards, in which case you're probably not going to have enough damage, and would be better off taking generic crit supports. Looping tends to be more reliable, unless they're going to add vanilla crit buffs to quick supports so that carding is more reliable. But buster can loop off any node since it's brute force charge, and there's several arts comps that can manage against irregular nodes. Quick can't really do that, and if its superpower of critting isn't reliable enough, then one side needs buffs. I just want for it to be looping, as there are a lot of servants with vanilla crit buffs.
Don't forget that Touta is now Buster support with a 10% charge as well after his Interlude on JP! That's incredibly frustrating as it shows they will go back and add color support to an older unit like Touta and Boudica, but never ever give any to Quick.
@@DeltafangEX Barto can literally be the support quick servant we need. Was looking forward to them making his quick buff targetable with his strengthening but that never happened 🗿
Ushiwakimaru is a free servant who after all her upgrades provides a suite of party wide effects including a star bomb which further hurts Osakabehime and Ushi isn't the only free servant to recieve similar upgrades
I feel like an easy fix for Osakabehime's kit is to give her a partywide 30 no battery in one of her skills. That way she can basically charge 50% for NP one ally and charge the other members of the party 30% just like Castoria. Is either that or yet another np strengthening
I think one of the issues I have with Osakabehime, is that so much of her capability is locked behind her np. One that she doesn't have a clear path to getting. A party charge would certainly be welcome for her, but even then I think I'd still like to see her get more in the way of survival and healing capability.
@@Khadroth Osakabehime is just not designed to be support unit but its clearly solo. She was supposed to be solo unit at the start so her skills and np helps in that however there are tons even other assasin that beats her in that so she was changed to be fully support, thats why she boost both quick and buster and once more she sucks at both.
I would like a low star quick support with the ability to shuffle cards and guarantee that a specific servant gets all their cards (or maybe just 3?) that turn. This helps newcomers have a low star quick support and also helps with 90+ nodes since you can run DSS with the new low star through plug suit. I think it's nice to try to keep crits relevant since star creation is Quick's thing. As it is, Quick meta just feels like Arts meta but worse, potentially at least getting beefy brave chains after the NP in challenge quests. This way we keep crits being "their thing" and also add some guarantees, cause we all know people don't wanna build inconsistent teams.
The big problem with quick is that it enables you to crit, but benefits least from critting Buster benefits most from damage, quick least. Arts gets double gains, which are triple as high as quick's. Quick on the other hand would just get stars, which are capped in utility ate 30-50(or even less with a quick lead)
While I still would like to see a bump to Quick face card damage multipliers (maybe instead of 80/96/112, do like 95/105/115 for example) I do agree that the change to Quick's first card bonus and the Mighty Chains are good to incentivize you still picking Quick cards. I personally feel that Quick should still synergize around Crits. And with the plethora of Stars and Crit buffs in the game now, I think some kind of tweak should be made to the payoffs of crits for Quick cards. Like Buster Crits, the strongest multiplier hits harder; Arts crits, the best NP Generator makes more NP charge. Quick Crits? You... make more stars to keep making more stars?
I though Kukulkan's kit format would be the solution for quick, using excess stars to power up quick skills, so Skadi could do a 50% on one unit 30% party by spending 20 stars. The problem is Kukulkan is a buster servant
Quick's biggest problem became Skadi being an accident while Castoria and Koyan were intentional. I do not feel we are in a position where a new support can fix it without making a lot of people angry. The latter two were designed clearly and specifically for their own looping shenanigans, and units before and after were considered for working in those systems, and replaced supports never intended for farming(both Merlin and Tamamo were designed for extended combat and only used for the lack of alternatives that gave 50% card type buffs for 3 turning). Skadi may not have been intended to be a looper, but became on, and already has become power creeped by herself unsuccessfully, but at least kept around as a 3rd support(and due to their closeness, in many cases still a main one as well and people just borrowing 1 skadi ruler). Releasing a loop oriented servant that somehow turns crit starts from quicks into np charge that somehow makes a good chunk of Quick units capable of looping, would completely force Skadi out of the one niche she has and will never be complementary to her, especially when there is a good chance the 3rd support will be either ruler skadi or oberon instead anyways. Frankly it is skadi that needs a buff(Charge also gives say party wide NP charge and some gimmick to convert stars into np refund), but I always doubt they will do so instead of making bank, especially after Ruler Skadi. So the best I can hope for is Skadi gets turned into Quick Oberon(Unstackable buff that soldifies her position as 3rd quick support) and they give us the quick equivalent of a Koyan but with stars=>np both on next Anniversary.
To me, I think something that could make quick system competitive with the buster/arts system in farming is a quick support that leans further into the face carding capabilities by having a skill that manipulates what cards you get. Whether that be some kind of command shuffle like buntoria or something else like changing your cards to be your DPS’s cards so they can consistently get a brave chain. Van Gogh and Doumann setups have already proven that face card farming teams are decently viable, so a quick system that leans even more heavily into it would be fun imo Ideally, this would make quick the best system for nodes with 2 single enemy waves because you could face card the two waves that have a single enemy and NP the third one. I ran this idea by a friend and their only concern was that it would make quick too strong for challenge content if you can just trivialize card RNG, but it’s just an idea I’ve had for a couple years now. TL;DR : I want a reliable face carding system for quick farming.
Another note: Yeah you could help quick’s refund and NP gain by having split NP charge supports and NP generation buffs, but that would just be making quick farming a worse version of arts farming. So face carding is imo the only way to make quick competitive with arts
I dont think such a support would work only for the quick meta, if anything it would be the Space Ishtar of the support gang, no? saber wars 3 with Space Sakura-face caster coming soon
Yeah I know a lot of people want them to add more card manipulation. They have to be careful with the balance in that area, but at this point I can't deny that's what they're leaning towards with Summer Skadi allowing you to crit hard on buster cards as well. Still oddly enough I feel like Quick as a system needs its own calling card that shouldn't rely on the other card types.
An idea I have for Quick is that you'd gain more NP and damage based off the stars you have at the start of any given turn. To be precise, an example: You get 30 stars at the end of turn with your Quick looper, you get 30% more damage and 30% starting gauge on top of what NP charge you already have. Naturally it'd have to be balanced, but I think making Quick thrive off getting those large amounts of stars and getting return FOR said crit stars would make them much more useful in a looping setting (as well as Challenge Quest)
They need two things. More crit buffs and more star spenders. Kuku's optional skill star spenders are great for this and if used to strengthen previous Quick servants could be a complete game changer. New skills that should be added are Crit NP Gain up and Crit Star Gen up. Crits already generate more but if you can slap a massive buff that only works when they critically succeed you can cement a quick supports playstyle. Osakabehime with Crit NP Gain up would have no problem using her NP more often. Wu Zetian could get AoE Crit Star Gen making her a star generator on par with Cas Gil through buffs. Skadi can still be the queen of Crit Damage. In fact we should just have more effects on crit. Crit buff block. Crit defence down. Hell make it even more specific like Buster Crit Star gen but make the numbers just silly high so you unlock new playstyles like Buster Star Gen. Quick should be a playstyle that not only can stand on its own but also support other styles of play as well
thought about how to fix Quick since I first started playing one thing that could help Quick a lot is providing NP refund - For every Crit Star above 50, 1% NP gauge is given to all servants on field - This not only helps and encourages people to lean on Quick's whole niche and playstyle, but it also lets Quick be a lot more semi-consistent - It also solves the selfishness that crit stars provide (aka servants critting to deal damage or gain more NP) an additional one would be to keep the damage value for Quick the same, but have its crit damage multiplier higher to make up for it - If a Quick card doesn't crit, it deals its normal damage (weaker than Arts and Buster) - If a Quick card crits, instead of whatever multiplier (for example 200%), its crit damage multiplier is now 300% and NP rate is half of Arts cards - This helps its Jack of All Trades nature, but also gives players a reason to build up crit stars might be a bit overtuned, but it's the general idea that could help
I think they could convert Iri into a quick support and putting her into the rare prism shop. Making her first skill a party wide 20% her second skill give the whole party the np gen up and her third skill giving a targeted 30/40% quick up and maybe an attack up for another dmg type.
I've seen solutions like this proposed before, another one would be adding some kind of quick up to waver. It certainly wouldn't hurt to have more options!
Quick needs a merlin/tamamo unit that gives it sustainability. Skadi np is nice but without any form of healing and actual utility outside of her np she severely struggles in longer fights. To be honest I wish proto-merlin was quick. Also a low star option around the power level of xu fu would be extremely helpful for players that don't have skadi. As someone who doesn't have her on either account I general just avoid quick units cause I don't have any real ways of supporting them.
I really felt what you said about Osakabehime. I have her grailed at 100 and I love her, but her kit is so painfully slow, it's really not that fun. Having a support rely on their NP is an issue in and of itself. It immediately eliminates any use for farming content. You are expected to use her facecards, but since her damage is abysmal, it's not a good idea to do so. It also makes CE choice awkward. You'd want something like 2030 for her first skill, but then she will literally never get her NP off. But without 2030 you're lacking in stargen unless you bring another support.
I feel like my main problem with quick which you have address here is damage, and secondly quick main issue for the longest time was the lacking in loopability in higher difficulty node and when lasangle add in the new quick lead/mighty chain is basically slapping a bandage on a deep wound, its not really fixing the main core problem which is that you basically cant loop 90+ nodes unless you have a very specially built caren or rikyu, even with that is stretching quite a bit in term of damage. Hopefully lasangle would find a better solution than just doing the bare minimum for quick fan while buster and art is getting their 20th game breaking support unit/universal looper
They're so afraid of quick being good that they constantly release good servants with absolutely crippling issues and instead spend their time creating absolutely cracked servants for buster and arts.
I’ve said it elsewhere and I’ll say it here: the benefits of the Quick Chain are completely nullified by other aspects of the game; namely skills, CE’s, and to a lesser extent, juiced up AoE Quick NP’s. There needs to either A) be a mechanic independent of any one servant or Mystic Code that trades excess stars for an additional benefit. Something like party-wide NP gain or a Crit damage buff. But let’s be honest: we want the party-wide NP gain. Or B) an additional benefit to choosing Quick chains beyond just the extra stars. Choosing an Arts chain is a free, flat 20% NP gain for all involved. Choosing a Buster chain is a free, flat damage bonus for all involved. I’ve always liked the idea of a Quick chain also lowering Skill cool downs by 1 for all involved. Given Quick’s lower NP gain, it’s not like solo units who just have two Quick cards in their deck can abuse it, as they won’t be able to do back-to-back NP’s to abuse the benefit. As much as I love Koyanskaya, I really wish cool down reduction had been Quick’s thing. It would have done a lot to allow the card type to stand on its own and would have incentivized an entirely new pathos to team creation and servant selection, as well as make people excited for servants with 2+ Quick card decks.
I’d like to see a quick support unit that creates some powerful effects from stars on the field, along the lines of Calamity Jane. For instance, you can give a buff for three turns to a unit that charges their NP gauge on each turn based on the number of stars on the field (1% for 1 star). It could be capped at 50% if they would want to limit it, but I don’t think going up to 99% would even be that broken, especially since sustaining that kind of star count is really hard to do without quick looping.
Personally, I think that as crit stars are the primary advantage of quick cards, the best type of unit/buff to improve the quick system would be units that utilize stars as a currency of sorts. Basically, units that can A. promote star generation and B. exchange stars for benefits. In farming, you will almost never use the stars you generate except maybe for turn 3 carding. If units could exchange said stars for things like skill cooldown, flat NP increase, or NP regeneration. Imagine having a farmer with a 30% battery, a 20% append, then two copies of a theoretical quick support. They of course have a 50% quick skill, putting you at least at 100% quick. You could start with a 50% CE without plug or 0% CE with plug. If your character can generate even, say, 30 stars with their NP. If the theoretical support had a normal 50% battery, then a np regen buff that had a continuous drain of stars to exchange for NP. If each character exchanged 15 stars for 20% NP, that’s 30 stars for 40% NP. Between the NP regen and the batteries, that’s 90% NP per turn, making refund practically not matter. The thing about this is that due to the effectiveness of the support being based on consuming stars, the system would really only work with Quick servants and VERY select Buster servants. Also, making the NP refund requirement so low for Quick would effectively fix the issue Quick has with strange nodes, like 3-1-x or 2-2-x.
I think since it's a Quick type it should do something with speed. like cooldowns. like make all Q NPs have an overcharge effect of reducing skill cooldowns. like at OC1 it does not reduce CD, but at OC2 it reduces all skills CD by 1(maybe even party wide). That way skills and CEs that give you OC will have more use.
Lasengle could have given my girl Rikyu a similar role just by giving her a 20% party wide NP on her first skill, it's really a shame to see the potential wasted since I find Quick so fun to use
I think there is potential to make use of excess stars past 50. In the current game going past 50 stars means nothing as you have 100% crit chance for all face cards. I think at 60 stars extra card crit, and at 70 NP crit or refund it into something else
I feel like giving quick units (especially Skadi) star trade mechanic would be the best solution. Stars, after all, is what makes quick... quick. How about giving Skadi a buff on her skill that gives party wide np charge per turn on her battery, but make the amount of np charge based on the stars you're willing to sacrifice. Or you can make the same thing but with np gain buff, seems like the best solution to make quick relevant and keep their identity at the same time, instead of making it a worse arts. And I feel like for long battles we simply need a new support at this point, since developers wasted Skadi np buff on some atk buff for some reason. Weird how they gave the full star trade mechanic to Kuku of all people, trivialising star generation even more for meta buster comps. Balancing geniuses I'm telling you
I think a good way to buff quick cards is to allow the quick cards to gather more stars than 100%. For example, there would be 3 tiers of crit. 100% being x2 damage 200% being x4 damage 300% being x6 damage. (Before modifiers) For example, if your quick card has a 130% chance to crit, it would have a 100% chance to be a tier 1 crit and a 30% chance to be a tier 2 crit. This would make gathering a lot of stars more important. You can also buff a lot of the "Star gather rate" skills to "Increase quick card star gather rate".
They could buff "quick related" servants with adding consume stars for better effect. With this mainly quick teams would benefit because those can have more stars than needed to crit.
Heres my thinking outside the box solution: give skadi caster a buff on one of the targetable skills that is: “at the end of each turn, reduce crit stars to 0. For every 2 crit stars eliminated, increase targets np gauge by 1. (3 turns)”. Then run caster skadi and double summer skadi with ur dps
@@kun2588 idc what anyone says, skadi caster is a farming support servant, not a CQ servant. Making quick viable for farming > losing crit gimmick in CQ with skadi caster
@@gotchagaminggg Half of Skadi's steroids is in the crit bracket and her only other steroid is a debuff that is more relevant for CQs when the waves don't change...
Imo they should do this: Since we have Quick + Quick Crit Loop Support and a Quick + Buster Crit Loop Support... we need 1) Defensive Quick Support: Party Wide 20% NP, Targeted 30% NP, 30% Quick Up, 30% Attack Up, Targeted Star Absorb, Targeted 3Hit-3Turn Invul, 1% Defense Down for Every Crit Star this turn not used etc. 2) NP Gain Quick Support: Targeted 50% NP and 30% NP Gain, Party Wide Arts Up/Change All Cards this turn to Arts or something. 3) Also after every card has 100% Crit Chance any excess stars are distributed likewise giving uncapped Crit Damage Up
I think something that could work is maybe introduce units that work like the new foreigner, where they have a set skill set that includes the usual quick buff, and np battery. But like they have a consumable effect for stars. Like maybe every turn they eat some of the stars and give additional effects like extra np charge, damage buffs, or even some sort of significant healing. So that it makes use of quicks abillity to gen stars more useful since in many three turn farming scenarios you won't always card so the crit stars can sometimes be pointless. This would really synergize with units like summer skadi and I think kinda of give quick that "identity" that you mentioned, where now they have a bit of an edge because yeah other buster and arts servents can generate or dump stars but not at the same rate as quick can with their nps and not as consistently. And even if they can match the star output it wouldn't be as beneficial since buffs would still be quick-oriented.
Some ideas I have: 1. A 1.5x muliplier on all crit damage muliplier. Making the base muliplier 3x and for example if a servant has 100% crit damage up for the quick cards act as if it is 150%. 2. Make quick effectiveness increase crit damage on quick cards slightly. Somewhere between 10% to 50% of the effectiveness buff. For example if they went with 20%, a 50% quick effectiveness would also act as a 10% crit damage up. 3. 1.5x to 2x increase to quick np gain. 4. Quick cards can gain over 100% crit chance (if there is more than 50 stars) for a chance for a higher muliplier. Example 120% crit always does the normal crit damage, but with a 20% to do more.
A support character that can help should have - Quick mana burst targetable or AOE Quick buff - a single target 50%battery (less likely due to 2 skadis already having it) or even better an aoe 20 - 30% battery , - an aura that reduces Quick resist of enemies each turn or amplifies Quick NP gain of all allies.
quick needs a way to capitalize off of >50 stars. Overstars could be a very cool unique mechanic that apply to ONLY quick cards, imagine if you could get up to 100% extra charge and damage on a card from it gathering 20 stars instead of 10 when you make 50+ stars. Maybe it's too in depth but hey, this game IS very in depth
I think a way to make them better would be that if you have a quick lead you also get a 20% damage up and maybe make them capable of partially ignore defensive buffs and deal damage to the next bar in case the enemy has one since various quick units are boss killers
My biggest gripe about Budget Quick supports is that it only has 20% quick ups in Alex and Zhang Jue. They have some good utility in buff removal and terrain manipulation respectively, but it's not exactly what I'm looking for in a budget quick support. There isn't really a burst Quick low star support the way Mozart or Chen Gong and Shakespeare are for Arts and Buster respectively. Basically, give Quick a targettable 50% targettable Quick up with some additional effect on a budget support that's available in fp summon pool or make the next budget quick support with aoe quick up a 30% quick up for 3 turns or like 45% quick up for 1 turn aoe. My second biggest gripe is that Osakebehime, the Quick support which is supposed to be the long-term support is less a Quick exclusive support and more watered-down universal support. *looks at the Buster up that got tacked onto her np, the fact that to get to her np you usually have to use art chains or art crits, and the fact none of her skill buffs technically have a color buff on it* Osakebehime is not bad at all, but in reality, we kinda don't have a long term Quick support. Basically either make a new long-game Quick support, give Osakebehime more defensive options on her skills, give Osakebehime a targettable or aoe quick up on her targettable battery, or give Osakebehime aoe battery on her targettable battery. And yes it is kinda weird that they keep giving the dps units all these aoe buff skills where in practice they're still rather selfish.
It would be really cool if we got a support servant that had the skill/ability to trade stars every turn for NP generation- like, every turn they burn up to 10-15 stars or something, and generate 20-30 NP for the front line
As a Voyager looper man something I always found frustrating is the missed looping for a minimum percentage, it could be very easily fixed not only with composed batteries, which is the easy way out, but also with per turn batteries, we can imagine a skadi buff from just the 50% battery to a 50% battery + 10% per turn for 3 turn (which would eventually double), it would make looping much easier Another quick buff I thought was something like an hypercrit system, we know the good old 50 stars distribuited to the 5 cards, when using quick servant how common it is to get near or over 99 stars, let's use this overflow, they could make a mechanic that after distribuiting the first 50 stars the other 50 would be distribuited again to make a crit that deals double crit damage e double np gain
I think the fear of buffing Quick as a category comes from the fear of the Critical system than anything having to do with Quick itself. They just don't have much to 'do' with Star gen since NP spam is the name of the game. Though in this, I feel Quick has a slight niche that is being underserved, being the archetype whose face cards actually matter. They do well for challenge quests quite often because of this. General node clear and loop wise, they are lacking though.
The Missing Party charge is still such a Problem. Alone with Castorias 30% Battery instead of the usual 20% she is great. And they should Just Give us more F2P Quick Supporter. Arts has great Units Like Xu Fu & Paracelsus and Quick has more or less nothing. Again a great Video. I can't keep Up with all your content, but i Like it xD
One way I think to help quick in general is to make them benefit more from crits, like make their np gen boosted by crits better than any card types and make their DMG boosted by crits better than any cards. As for farming, someone already stated that maybe have a 50% charger ( preferably split charge as you said ) quick support ( 50% quick up for 3 turns ) have a skill that changes star generated into np refunds, would help with the excess stars that quick nps generate ; other card types could take advantage of it too but Koyan, Merlin, Skadi, Castoria and so on are already used outside of their systems from time to time so who cares.
Having a quick based Castoria- Party charge but still overall 50% to one unit, 50% quickup and some form of defensive NP that they can charge reasonably (Caster Skadi has questionable NP gain, only 2 arts cards, and a really meh defensive NP) would be a start. Or buffing their np gain in that beginning chart would help so more then just 3 quick units can use more CE's then just the scope.
I think having a support that reduce skill cooldown party wide by paying 10 or twenty star for a turn or 2 would be nice( with low cooldown of course so you could spam it as long as you have constant stream of star).
My idea is that the different card types should be designed for different purposes. Build the Buster system for Challenge content, the Quick system for carding and farming (especially weird nodes like 1/2/1 or what have you, as well as weird story/event nodes), and Arts for looping.
The devs probably dont want us to get access to multi 100% crit turns consistenly but well if Arts Teams can NP 3 times in a row and buster teams can kill a boss in 1 Brave chain. I belive boosting the ability of getting crits without punishing the survability of the units is a must i feel like Quick has SOOOO MANY great units with cool designs to explore but is just too clunky to get Quick system work rigth now. You are either too squishy or your teams go from 50 stars (the best turn) to 25 stars after that to 15 stars at best after that. It goes down in power too quickly unless you have access to skadi.
Haven't done watching this video but i have some idea in my mind Example by kukulgan skill, we can make skadi consume cstar to boost her skill so the star from quick will be use. (Consume 10 star to change 50 battery to 100 battery)
just make quick crits aoe, doesnt even have to increase their np gain by each enemy, as in crit 3 enemies with one card and get np for one same fr star gen, fun fact u could actually give them them the np gain and star gen from all enemies and it wouldnt break the game, could do a support that does it or just an ability for the card type. no matter how u cut it it will fix quick and give it a new playstyle instead of copying arts looping or buster reloading
I've always felt that Quick crits should do more damage than Buster crits. That should be the trade-off. If we're talking a character with neutral damage, then Quick crit should deal as much more damage than Buster Crit as Buster does over Arts, while non-crit damage remains the lowest. So minimum or maximum, it all depends on chance (unless you max stars). Alternately they could just add Mighty Crits, In that you can go over 100% crit rate per card, and if you have say 135% chance then you will 100% get normal crit damage, but 35% chance to do double _that,_ and maybe Quicks gain their damage advantage on _those._ This would not only make crit cards good for attacking, but also gives "star gen" more of a place when there are already "plenty" of stars, since you could benefit from up to 100 stars. I would enjoy them making better Quick farming systems, and having more flexible NP Gain would be very handy for that, but I would also be fine with them saying "Quicks aren't meant to three-turn farm, but they can _obliterate_ harder enemies by building massive card damage." I think that fits them thematically, not wave clearers, but assassins and snipers.
I played JP for about a week and quick felt way better there. I have only been playing NA for about a month and a half and sadly one of my main units whos np 4 on accident is a quick servant. Summer Sei does amazingly with her facecards but her np does such little damage due to the lack of quick support and the fact her np isnt strong to begin with. The problem is again, the damage is crap. I think quick should have the same damage as arts since quick is focusing on facecards while arts are focused on NP. If you need insane damage then you go Buster.
Well, I think quick has two different issues: 1. It just doesn't really bring anything to farming that arts and buster don't. 2. It doesn't really have a stand out sustain support. For 1. the main issue is because it has middling NP gains, and in farm scenarios you don't want to rely on RNG crits, arts and buster will always be more reliable as arts has better NP gain, and buster doesn't care about NP gain at all. Fixing this one is tricky as it is very easy to just make quick another arts and right now honestly I think we can largely ignore this issue as while they aren't the best, they are functional. So 2 is the bigger issue. Osaka was supposed to be the sustain support, but she's clumsy, and further creating an issue, she's close to OP solo. So, fixing her is a pain as do it wrong and she suddenly becomes a solo monster. Also doesn't help matters that she's built weird compared to the other sustain supports (Merlin, and Lady Avalon being prime examples). Her type boost is built into her NP, but at only 3 rounds even though it could theoretically stack, outside of solo it basically never does. Her def up is okay, but nothing impressive especially when not stacked. Her single target 20 NP... well is laughable. Fixing her is... troublesome. Theoretically though if you gave her some means of forcing her overcharge, fixed that battery skill and maybe give some better NP gain in party, maybe. Again we have to be careful about her becoming a solo monster though, so any buffs need to either be indirect (ie from another support), or not really affect her solo play. So that leans to a new sustain support to partner with her, someone kinda like Himiko, but more focused on quick support. Alternately we could simple ditch Osaka and build a new sustain support who basically fixes the problems with Osaka directly.
Quick is literally better than Buster for anything below 90+ rn. On the higher end, they're better than anyone else at crit farming. Idk where this idea comes from that Quick is bad for farming.
I think quick should boost extra cars dmg as well. Quick should be very focused on specifically face card dmg and should be the best at it and a niche they could take on would be allowing for extra cars to crit due to excess stars. Quick definitely should have had the middle multiplier for dmg and they should be utilizing excess stars as well. I think a cool mechanic would be for quick to have the chance of hitting twice actually, being the “riskiest” card and least consistent but also potentially doing the most crit dmg as well as NP dmg IF it can go twice. Quick should follow its own name. I understand multiple NPs might mess things up but I think if you have enough stars maybe rather than doing an extra attack maybe it does an NP at the end of a brave chain or maybe it does multiple extra attacks or gives some sort of permanent/long term buffs which would make quick the best in long fights. Consistency is great for farming but in certain boss fights sometimes you want to play for the long game or do all the dmg in one huge turn and quick should allow people to do that. Maybe every 5 stars past 50 adds an extra hit to each card up to a max of 20 and then maybe stars past 70 amp crit rate on extra card. Passive buffs based on star conditions would be great on Quick servant NPs.
It would be nice to have a Koyanskaya for quick. That way they won't rely on refund that much like buster. But it would be too op. So, just give the new support NP gain down buff so quick can't refund. Every thing should be balanced that way.
the biggest mistake here is that quick cards have these relatively low stats because crit stars double the stats of every card, a servant will have 80% 100% arts and 150% buster damage on his first card but the next servant would have 160% quick 200% arts and 300% buster damage because you generated stars the turn before that, and that without counting the stars refunded from crits but also the np gained, one could say well just use busters and arts 2 turns well no because lets say you use a quick chain first and after an arts chain compared to two art chains, the two art chains will generate more np because of the 20% bonus of it, but if the arts chain gets all crits or even 2 its gonna generate almost the same np and is gonna deal as much damage as 2 art chains plus de damage of your quick chain, just gona use first card numbers to make the math easy arts chain + arts chain= 300%+300%=600%damage buster+buster=450%+450%=900% quick chain + arts chain=240%+600%=840% damage quick+buster=240%+900%=1140% in essence quick cards are stronger when take turns with the other cards, saying that there are skills that generate stars downplay quick cards is like saying arts cards are weaker because of batteries or np gain buffs, or that buster are weaker because of atk buffs this things just strength them, np gain arts generate even more np, atk buff buster do even more damage, i start the turn with 20 or 30 stars or i have star drop up because skills if i go quick the next turn is gonna be 50 stars to nuke an enemy with buster or to charge my entire party's np
I think you are right in that Quick needs access to partywide charge, but I also think the fundamental design of their DPS Servants lately is wrong-headed. We don't need Arts loopers in green clothing, let alone the minor gimmicks that get washed out because they're just not enough. The way they've handled Quick units post-Skadi is the most frustrating aspect of this whole thing, as given what they've done with Arts and Buster it really does feel like they're intentionally holding Quick down, and that feels like a kick in the teeth. To that end, I think a change that would give Quick a massive boost overnight would indeed be to get rid of card RNG somehow, since Quick often wanted to crit waves down even during the Skadi era. That would help it deal with irregular nodes in a unique way so that it doesn't just need to ape Arts with more NP gain and Buster with more brute force charge. I always enjoyed critting a wave down during the Skadi era - it was fun to do something else besides firing off an NP every single wave. And it would give Quick a capability that Arts largely just cannot do. Plus, it's not like Arts and Buster wouldn't benefit from that change either, so I think everybody wins. I don't know if they'll ever do that, but last Anniversary suggested they're open to retooling the basic game systems, so I will at least plug it next Survey we get.
Tbf the entire fgo community looks at quick as arts looping which is the problem. Everyone wants quick to have more np gain so quick servants can fully refund like arts servants (which funnily enough some can like Dantes though only against certain enemies) and that just straight up defeats the purpose of Arts at that point.
@Djdhdd Shshs I agree, which gets back at Kad's point that they messed up right at the beginning with the Card's abilities. Not that it can't be fixed and they haven't made progress to that end, which he also mentioned, but if the goal is to keep the playstyles of Buster, Arts, and Quick differentiated the answer has to lie in addressing the issue generated by the core mechanics of the game rather than putting a band-aid on it with Servant design. The best Quick units are good despite being Quick and never because of it, generally speaking. I really do think axing card RNG is at least part of the solution. In the early years of the game it was probably necessary, but now with NP spam so trivial all it does is push people away from carding towards the NP you can more or less guarantee.
Although quick is in a worse spot the "Boogeyman" for the devs is the fact that quick has the most np damage. The moment quick is able to loop like arts or buster it will come out on top. Imagine a quick servant that can do 1/1/X loop why would you ever need arts or buster that deals less damage. Atleast that's what i think the boogeyman the devs are afraid of.
Main issue is not that quick falls at support other than Skadi, because lets be honest buster works only due to Koyanskaya and arts due to castoria (sorry fluffy tail fans). The issue is that Skadi was designed to be that support while only Tamamo and Merlin were her enemies at best supports. So she worked, but when they broke the game with releasing koyanskaya and castoria, skadi just fails. And they visibly wanted to buff skadi with releasing her as ruler BUT as she was ruler so better class they were afraid of making her too good
Quick cards may be the weakest but Quick NP is the strongest of all NP types, having higher NP modifier (post card-type modifier) for both AoE and ST values. Couple that with Skadi being the first inherent 3T looping enabler with just one Quick damage dealer, it does make sense that, at that time, Lasengle would want to diversify the Quick roster and limit the value of looping (somewhat) so it's not too obnoxious. Ofc, it makes no sense now since we and Lasengle have finally embraced looping (too much that we get a shitton of AoE) but hindsight is 20/20. The most frustrating and necessary part of Quick looping is that, to be able to loop, most Servants need some amount of NP Gain Up and those without suffers a lot more. A lot of Quick Servants have trouble looping because it can't just loop with double Summer Skadi much like Arts do with double Castoria. Nero Bride or Paracelsus are basically an essential part of most Quick looping comps. EDIT: As for Quick cards, I always thought that it was meant to be a 'support' card. Basically, an action that pre-empts and strengthens the other cards. Before the Quick upgrade, they only boost the next turn's cards which isn't helpful. Now, +20% crit chance immediately is such a gamechanger to how well Quick cards can support the other used cards that turn as well. EDIT 2: If Quick gets another buff, I wanna see it get an innate doubled crit performance. That's quadruple the boost of everything from damage, NP gain and star gen. Another way is to make a new Quick support that enables the Servant's NP to crit and positioned in a way similar to Oberon where it's best on Quick but can be used for any Servant. While it may sound a bit silly, if a Servant's NP can crit, the biggest win would be Quick Servants since they're the ones that would generate a ton more stars and can more efficiently take advantage of it (since it means 60 stars is the maximum required for guaranteed crits now). Basically, just bank in on the idea that Quick NPs are supposed to be the deadliest.
Would also be nice that when you have a Quick Chain you get automatically Crit UP. Or give the Quick card/chain a higher flat crit damage. Instead of being x2 you have a x3.5 or something like this. Something that would be stronger than Arts crit but still not as strong as a Buster Crit. It is quite sad that Buster just works because it's brute power and Arts is just spamming NP, Quick is good but asks for a lot of preparation, it doesn't guarantee that you'll have the crit stars on the right card next turn and it also doesn't guarantee that you will have the right command cards next turn..
I also find it somewhat problematic that Quick has pretty hard ceiling. A few skills aside, once you hit 50 stars there's no point is getting any more. Buster can just keep doing more damage, Arts can reach higher Overcharge levels (until 300%, admittedly). 99 stars and no Moriarty or Kuku on the team? Congrats on the 49 useless stars. The easy solution is to make the excess stars carry over, essentially making it so every turn consumes 50 stars, then the rest can last for an additional turn, possibly allowing super high star generators to create multi-turn garenteed crits. The more interesting solution in my mind is to give excess stars some other benefit. My first thought was each star above 50 gets consumed and gives the party 1% NP. Admittedly, that somewhat screws over those Servants that DO consume stars for skills, since it makes it so you can't both activate the star eating skill and have guaranteed crits on the same turn without a star bomb of some kind, but it at least makes >50 stars more generally useful.
Not a popular opinion, but ima just throw it in to get opinions from yall: Ive been using all Quick, Arts, and Buster teams, to narrow it down lets just focus on looping and farming, on 80-90+ nodes. Buster has no issues with Koyan Morgan and Oberon, they got NP batteries, Crit star bombs, and damage, even if theyre all underlevelled. Arts got the most insane refund with a few nodes and setup can give you 100% NP charge the moment you finish your NP. However they cant generate stars on the NP alone meaning that you need skills or specific command codes, castoria doesnt have a crit bomb skill, so if your NP doesnt kill and all your buffs ran out, then youre fucked on the next turn. Quick deals the least damage out of all 3 teams but they generate tons of stars just by 1 NP, without using skills or command codes. So they can follow up with 100% crit damage on the next turn, although taking into account RNG of course, can also fuck you up on the next turn. That said, their NP refund is also unpredictable sometimes, needing 3 enemy waves to guarantee at least 50% refund. Same as Arts, once your NP doesnt kill and your buffs ran out, youre fucked too.
I think what supports quick should have and what they should do is a consequence of what the card type itself is supposed to do and right now quick is mostly a star generator... imo it shouldn't just be that, instead it should really double down on critical damage. Currently a buster crit is much stronger than a quick crit in most cases and that shouldn't be the case. Buster should be the strongest card type when it doesn't crit and quick should be the strongest when it crits. Tho I'm pretty sure such a change wouldn't sit well with most "red means dead" lovers :D
i have a feeling johanna will be what koyanskaya is to merlin but for skadi. or i could be totally wrong and she'll be another aoe arts servant. either way i have enough for pity and ive been waiting for her since traum.
Maybe a support that can turn stars into NP - they did it with Calamity Jane so if they could tweak that? And Kukulkan got it too so now if they can apply it to a Quick support... I've been wanting a quick support that can make use of the stars for charge since I started this game 2 years ago. With charge across instead of single target 50% like Skadi. I was happy that we got Taigong Wang, but then they release Tezcatlipoca, and then Quick is also the only one with no 50% charge aoe berserker (Buster-Morgan, Arts-Summer Ibuki). And defense I guess? So far we have Skadi's 1 time evade, whereas arts has Castoria, and even Buster has Merlin for partywide invul.
Sen is the Quick equivalent of Morgan/SIbuki. Quicks generally prefer not to have 50% battery if it isn't split because they can't make use of their append otherwise.
@@kun2588 that’s my point - Sen is a quick equivalent. No single 50% or split 50%, just 30% and it was still considered impressive because she was Quick, whereas it would have been less so if she was Buster or Arts. It’s like they want to kneecap every quick unit. The fact that quick ‘prefers’ thirty for the append is also proof of the problem quick has in both limited Support and the reliance on append charge.
@@gogobebe8460 No, you've got that backwards. The 30% isn't impressive because she's Quick; it's because Quick can't use the append anyway and 30% is the same as a 50% unsplit to them either way so it's not a demerit. It's the same story with Buster, 30% charge is the same as 50% charge on T1 because of append. There is no preference here, a 50% battery is simply a waste for them because they can't make use of the extra 20%.
Quick supports should have NP that could help the team..OG Skadi have a supportive NP but her NP gain sucks and she can't charge the team either (neither can summer Skadi). One time evade and death resist is meh most of the time. SSkadi's NP outright useless and her kit is only useful to quick servants with more than 2 buster cards. Oh well, at least she's great if you have Bazett.
i like quick but i also think since a lot of busters and arts np has stars bombs it makes que stars less unique to quick. since skadi realease a lot of quick damage dealer can meet the 50stars requirement whithot self buffs when they add the 20% chance if you lead with quick only helps on turn 1 because the other turns you can get stars by you own i wish they make over shoot star gen usefull because that is the only quick advantage something like if you get more crit chance by having more than 50 stars or leading with quick when you already has 100% on your cards +20% it give you extra crit dmg to the card
i think skadi caster need a skill strengening who gives her 20-30 self battery that way you can have her buffed NP more reliable and a new quick support with 30% party wide battery and healing
They need to release quick supports that are good and not just another skadi Quick does have a high damage mod on np to try making up for the damage look at ushi
Haha they actually get plenty of time outside and I have a nice big backyard for them to run around in. Don't worry I love them too much to keep them constantly cooped up.
Are they only in there during your filming? Cause that makes sense so they don’t get in the way. But, it would be nice if u let them roam around your house most of the day.
@@Khadroth they should have given Okki party wide Charge on np instead of buster performance up, that would have helped quick in terms of staying power.
what Quick really need is more LOW RARITY quick supports. to this day we still dont have a Quick equivalent to mozart (arts) or chen gong (buster). Quick economy is too expensive
when screwing around with star gen focused setups you can easily make way over 50 stars... maybe make it so extra stars over 50 has a benefit like 1% extra party crit damage per extra star over 50 for a max bonus of 49%? Or maybe the extra stars turn into np refund split between the party (max of 13% np for 3 units or 49% np if you somehow make 99 stars while solo) Ooooorrrr... extra stars get stockpiled by your backline and become a star bomb when your backline enters the field?
What if Quick cards on NP only charged a guaranteed amount of the NP bar before refund. Sort of like Artoria Saber or Lily Da Vinci, whats you guys thoughts on this?
You made some good points (even if I disagree slightly on some of them). I personally feel quicks less desirable nature is also impacted by the strength and availability of NPs. Nowadays it is just way way too easy to access any servants NP without much issue. There is too much NP charge in the game. NPs are reliable, you dont rely on card RNG with them and can plan ahead easily. Back when Waver was the only big NP charger in the game, facecards as a whole had a lot more value. But then there is the second issue. Facecards are RNG. And quick invests into the facecards of the future by being the crit focused card type. That in itself is an issue when you dont know if you will even get the cards of your damage dealer the following turn. Additionally crits themselves are RNG unless you generate enough stars to guarantee them. So the intended stategy of using a turn to generate stars with quick and then using those stars on the following turn to greatly buff your buster or arts cards never worked out how it should have been. Solving this is honestly not easy. The game has come too far to make such fundamental changes like nerfing every NP change in the game. One addition I think would have helped is letting us see the facecards of the upcoming turn in advance (under the assumtion that the current party would stay the same). That way the unreliable nature of quick cards could have been mitigated a bit more and we could have made more strategic decisions. But even that change would not help that much nowadays with the over availability of NPs and diminished value of facecards.
I realize I didn't make the point succinctly enough towards the end, but the issue with Zhang Jue is while he's a good unit, he's poor replacement for having viable low star buffer options like Shakespeare, Mozart, or Xu Fu. As such I saw the issues facing quick to be staying power without the help of other card type units, node structure making block charges suboptimal, and a lack of support options at both high and low rarities. Thank you for coming to my Khad Talk. 🤣
What would you like to see Quick as a system get in terms of QoL or new units?
One specific area in which I've had qualms with in regards to quick is primarily due to the excess amount of stars found within a quick comp, which more or less just got boosted by the fact that mighty chain got introduced along with giving quick the stars passive around less than a year ago, and I've thought about it time and time again about how theres still steps needed to make quick so much better in order to compete, which just kept on getting reinforced by S. Skadi and Kuku from what I can namely remember. Starting with S. Skadi first, it was a good step towards improving quick, however I'm really bothered by the amount of extra versatility of her skills, the downtime related interactions, and her NP. Her skills are really solid, it offers various cards to the table for quick and buster, with the part being that bothers me is the buster aspects found within her kit, buster already has no LACK of the features found within her kit, along with the fact being there wasn't really any demand for Quick-Buster centric supports due to how weak quick just is when compared to the Arts and Buster whilst having more and better options which makes them both more complete in comparison, Koyan for looping+skill/cd charger+buster starbomb and starweight + buster FC onhit NP charge, Castoria (nothing here needs to be said, best unit in the game with immense flexibility due to her skillset and support potential), Oberon the closest thing we have to a support for all classes, but more or less revolves around Buster, with Arts being next just because of the better options and choices available when compared to quick. Yammering on and on about this would be pointless as I've gotten the point across, but there was just no need to have made S. Skadi like this because quick has no excelling areas, along with lacking flexibility and support throughout all kinds of fights due to the small selection of units available. With what S. skadi offered to the table in regards to the usual quick comps filled a little of what was missing from quick team comps in regards to damage, np, and quick itself as a card. You can say that she provided a good foothold to cement a 2nd path in regards to what to do in the middle of turns where skills are on downtime, but it was simply lacking with how she was designed. She gives more extra stars for.. Buster? You use those stars for your dps to do.. Buster crits? On a Quick team? The more you look the quick-buster just shows, her kit wants you to utilize Buster crits as much as possible for your dps while keeping the quick part of normal Skadi. She did not help giving Quick cement itself as another option due to these facts, which leads me to my next point to show just how much is lacking in Quick. S. Skadi being a AoE NP was just quite horrible to see, due to the fact that Quick lacks in supportive identity for its units, aside from the first Skadi. The main issue with quick is the cooldowns and what to do with stars are found. My points with how many options Buster and Arts has in compared with Quick is because their options allow them to make utilize the strengths of both card types more fully. Buster has the options to tackle skill downtime to the nature of its card type of dealing the most damage, while also using crits and NP-related things to its benefit, along with the dps options being protected due to the supports present being able to help immensely, which more or less coincides with how Arts is too, just switch it out with the less damage and more NP type shenanigans, along with them also having the options just leaves Quick in the dust. For the majority of the game there is just disfavorability towards Quick due to them having a smaller amount of things to utilize in tackling their weaknesses such as nothing to do with extra stars, cooldown downtime issues, damage, along with regards to NP. The extra stars are just all wasted, no creativity in regards to that aspect. Cooldown issues apparent when there are various aspects about Quick supports need facecards of the dps in order to function properly for a good portion which is said in the video, entirely RNG. They made Quick into this problem where it is lacking steps on what you should do with it. On your downtime with Buster you can use your supports to charge their NPs, or you can do damage with your main unit or a mix of the two. With Arts you keep on spamming as much NPs which synergize with keeping charge for all units due to all of them benefitting NP wise from the blue buttons. With quick you don't really have anything which utilizes their downtime, you can create more stars to crit more, but it still hits relatively less in comparison to Buster, and sure as hell doen't generate NP as much as arts, they also don't address their survivability issues in such, they don't really have a Castoria nor Merlin equivalent from them. You really just make more stars to try and crit, make damage and NP-related actions if rng is generous, until you have your skills up. There really just isn't anything that can make Quick stand as a complete card.
My suggestions would prolly be making a new function in with Quick alone as the center as the other card types do not need it, and would help Quick find its identity. Something like Kuku functionality would be quite good for dps, but it also needs to fundementally change Quick as a whole by expanding the usage of stars and adding more, creative options in regards to dps and supports. For starters, we can dwell upon the the lacking aspect of survivability and downtime while keeping the damage and NP of current quick by making a unit that focuses around lowering cd for the entire team, while using a Merlin kit and NP, which you can then sacrifice stars for to add to the effect of the NP, however would increase this unit's base cooldown by one. Doesn't need to be exact but there just needs to be more options revolving around what quick lacks in. The star concerns should also be addressed possibly through making an NP in which lets you use it to deal damage and generate stars to be able to double crit for 3 turns or sumn for specific unit, look to something like Warframe's critical damage design, with the next turn being able to change 3 cards into all quick or possibly 2quick 1buster/arts divided card through discarding stars for three turns also, with you being offered the option to normally NP without the doublecrit function for versatility of supports and the unit also has a star gathering skill etc. There really needs to be more options and new additions to Quick.
Quick definitely needs more supports, low rarities especially for sure, but I think it really needs a support that buffs np gain and I don't understand why that's so hard for lasengle to understand
The only issue I have with NP gain on quick is that it simply is already fairly low for the card type. Combined with oddly structured nodes, quick isn't always going to have 3 enemy sets to bail them out in that regard. It's partly why I think the future for quick won't improve much until we get a true devoted party charger.
@@Khadroth It does have lower np gen than arts for sure, but arts supports having np gain and quick not just magnifies the issue further and creates more divide that could be remedied
An "np gain" support won't fix Quick's problems. It'll just cement Quick in place as an inferior form of Arts. Quick's problem is moreso with it's identity; what it does best simply has no value compared to Buster and Arts. A major card-work rework is needed to balance Quick, not another meta support.
@@kun2588 always on board the 'quick needs an identity of its own' idea. Why not make a support that enables farming based on stars produced. Like Koyan enabled buster nps that were supposed to one burst and done, arts got castoria that lets it be looping back to back, why shouldn't quick have some support that reinforces its identity
@@Ashgrey0 so like if the enemies are killed by quick cards they have a higher chance to drop mats there that will fix quick and the game.
Let's not forget that they still have yet to give us a reason to have more than 50 stars.
When I used my Zerkerlot back in the day I often found myself with 99+ stars and no sure way to capitalize on them. Imo, they should change the Crit Star mechanics as well. For example:
*Allow us to save our stars instead of using them for nothing on bad turns.
*Give us the option to convert stars into NP Charge and/or Healing/Buffs.
*Consume stars to guarantee cards for a turn. Let's say, 5 stars per card you pick.
That would fix bad card RNG, wasting stars when you don't need them, not having anything to do with leftover stars and NP charge / healing issues.
All that being said, I am not a game dev, and like you said, there are a lot of ways to get stars, so I have no idea how would they balance it.
Really like the idea of spending stars for something, or getting buffs from having a lot of them. I think that making so that stars beyond 50 started boosting your crit damage would be a cool buff. Or honestly, just making it so that crit damage increases with the number of stars you have in general, not just beyond 50 (maybe the effect could dramatically increase beyond 50).
Right now the optimal number of stars to have is the bare minimum needed to make your dps land buster/arts crits consistently, which is not many if they have a star absorb steroid; it's an amount that is pretty easy to obtain without ever touching a quick card. I think that quick card's identity is tied very closely with crit playstyles, so providing crit benefits would be a big improvement. This change would let both improve the damage viability of quick cards themselves, as well as make them an actually useful tool for setting up insane buster crit turns.
But this is just me wildly coming up with ideas haha, I don't know if these would actually work in practice.
The way i look at what they've been doing is that they want to make each card type deal with things in a way different from each other, and they quite got it with buster and arts being two systems (at least for what i see since i only play NA) equally viable but that work in completel different ways, and when i look at summer skadi and the quick system nowadays, i feel that they're trying to create the "quick way", but can't exactly get it to work. What i think they're heading towards is:
-Arts having a lot of spread charge and refund, making it able to use double attackers settups
-Buster don't caring about refund but being a lot more restrictive on the way it works.
-Quick being a system that integrate carding on their gameplay, having worst refund than arts and the restrictive block charges of buster, but breing able to have a good card performance no matter what cards they have on their hand
And that's the reason i think quick DPSs have all this support capabilities, to make the supports able to hit hard too, maybe not as much as the dps itself, but being able to crit some minor enemies/break bars down, making all 3 units capable of dealing a decent to good damage, instead of the other systems where the difference between the damage the dps does and the support does are so big.
Because of that i don't think they will ever give some big party wide charge to quick, or rather, the reason they didn't gave party charge do summer skadi already, and when they give party charge to quick it is heavily restrictive (like with Don Quixote's 3rd skill), because they don't want quick to be too similar to arts in how it works, what i think they might do is maybe give a quick support that gives 15%-20% charge per turn to the party or something like that, but i don't think they will make a castoria like charger for quick.
This doesn't mean quick doesn't need a dedicated healer or a low star support tho, it absolutely needs.
I would personally just lean into Quick's original niche of star generation and tinker with the star system itself. Primarily, if we're going to have so many sources of stars, then generating over 50 should be something that actually benefits the team instead of going to waste. Whether those extra stars persist over subsequent turns or whether you can get "double crits," both solutions would work, but in either case, I would then simply blanket double the effectiveness of Quick card stargen at each stage of the chain and remove the game's weird hard limits on star generation per hit count.
I would also like to introduce a Mystic Code with both a swap and a skill that lets you draw a single servant's entire hand, but that's probably asking for too much.
Tbh i feel the "solution" is to simply make a support that complements Skadi rather than another one
A divided battery, as you said, but also healing or any form of sustain, since Skadi is basically a all offense, no defense, so the quick units depends on their own kits, like Achilles' invul or Atalante's evade, while Castoria had Around Caliburn and Merlin is Merlin. Perhaps Johanna or another quick-related character like Patroclus could come to be the "healer" with maybe a more spamable evade/invul, healing over time and so on. They could also benefict from ripping off Kuku's "pay stars for more effects" idea and NP gain buffs too
Yep it's kind of funny that the buster units are all the ones with the star consumption benefits. 😂
In my opinion we need 3 more Quick supports in the game.
A low rarity quick support
A high party charge NP quick support
And a more defensive Merlin style quick support, one not used for farming but for long lasting fights. Quick has no staying power
I really like the way they designed Sen no Rikyuu's kit and wish they'd adopt some of her things into the big green supports. Increasing the np gain of specifically quick cards, or having an attack up/def down when using quick cards (preferably before damage). Heck having a flat gains when using green cards, like Dioscuri, would also really help looping.
If they really want to lean into quick being the best star generator, they could add an additional battery that consumes stars and gives charge. Basically every quick looper makes 30+ stars easily, and a lot of them make an excessive amount of stars. You can't use all of them anyway, so converting that into some much needed gauge would an interesting way to address the refund issue. The skill has a built in demerit and an inflexible starting condition, meaning it would be a supplementary (wave 2-3) battery, so you'd still need some measure of starting gauge.
Summer Skadi was a...way to go about fixing quick. It is nice that you have a secondary dps option in buster crits, but it doesn't do anything about the struggle to loop. Breaking up batteries would help, but I'd really rather they push increasing the np gain of quick cards, since the largest issue is usually refund.
This comment is already way too long, but I want to point out that Alexander is really the only budget quick support, and it's middling support anyway. Buster has Shakespeare and (arguably) Chen gong. Arts just got Xufu, a budget Castoria, and they already had Mozart and Paracelsus. There's several generic (non card specific) supports, like Mata Hari, Hans, and Bartholomew. Quick isn't hurting for supports who can also do damage; it's hurting for support.
If you read this far, make sure you stay hydrated and have a great rest of your day lol
Yep I can not fathom how they've ignored adding low star quick support options for this long.
Bro on Jp 3-3 is dead every node is like 1-1 now and np isn’t the only way to farm now and it just so happens that because of all the stars and crit damage quick and buster servants can just crit a wave instead of relying on np or even np gain. The last thing any card type needs is a way to 3-3 loop.
@@6ToesHeACreature Unless I'm misremembering, 90++ are as irregular as 90+ nodes. There's all kinds of variations of layouts, but the health values necessitate either nps or crits, each with a lot of buffs. Given that the two premier quick supports only buff the crit damage of one type of card each and the way cards are subject to rng, its entirely possible to not have the right cards, in which case you're probably not going to have enough damage, and would be better off taking generic crit supports. Looping tends to be more reliable, unless they're going to add vanilla crit buffs to quick supports so that carding is more reliable. But buster can loop off any node since it's brute force charge, and there's several arts comps that can manage against irregular nodes. Quick can't really do that, and if its superpower of critting isn't reliable enough, then one side needs buffs. I just want for it to be looping, as there are a lot of servants with vanilla crit buffs.
Don't forget that Touta is now Buster support with a 10% charge as well after his Interlude on JP! That's incredibly frustrating as it shows they will go back and add color support to an older unit like Touta and Boudica, but never ever give any to Quick.
@@DeltafangEX Barto can literally be the support quick servant we need. Was looking forward to them making his quick buff targetable with his strengthening but that never happened 🗿
Ushiwakimaru is a free servant who after all her upgrades provides a suite of party wide effects including a star bomb which further hurts Osakabehime and Ushi isn't the only free servant to recieve similar upgrades
I feel like an easy fix for Osakabehime's kit is to give her a partywide 30 no battery in one of her skills. That way she can basically charge 50% for NP one ally and charge the other members of the party 30% just like Castoria. Is either that or yet another np strengthening
I think one of the issues I have with Osakabehime, is that so much of her capability is locked behind her np. One that she doesn't have a clear path to getting. A party charge would certainly be welcome for her, but even then I think I'd still like to see her get more in the way of survival and healing capability.
@@Khadroth Osakabehime is just not designed to be support unit but its clearly solo. She was supposed to be solo unit at the start so her skills and np helps in that however there are tons even other assasin that beats her in that so she was changed to be fully support, thats why she boost both quick and buster and once more she sucks at both.
I would like a low star quick support with the ability to shuffle cards and guarantee that a specific servant gets all their cards (or maybe just 3?) that turn. This helps newcomers have a low star quick support and also helps with 90+ nodes since you can run DSS with the new low star through plug suit.
I think it's nice to try to keep crits relevant since star creation is Quick's thing. As it is, Quick meta just feels like Arts meta but worse, potentially at least getting beefy brave chains after the NP in challenge quests. This way we keep crits being "their thing" and also add some guarantees, cause we all know people don't wanna build inconsistent teams.
The big problem with quick is that it enables you to crit, but benefits least from critting
Buster benefits most from damage, quick least. Arts gets double gains, which are triple as high as quick's. Quick on the other hand would just get stars, which are capped in utility ate 30-50(or even less with a quick lead)
While I still would like to see a bump to Quick face card damage multipliers (maybe instead of 80/96/112, do like 95/105/115 for example) I do agree that the change to Quick's first card bonus and the Mighty Chains are good to incentivize you still picking Quick cards.
I personally feel that Quick should still synergize around Crits. And with the plethora of Stars and Crit buffs in the game now, I think some kind of tweak should be made to the payoffs of crits for Quick cards. Like Buster Crits, the strongest multiplier hits harder; Arts crits, the best NP Generator makes more NP charge. Quick Crits? You... make more stars to keep making more stars?
maybe give quick cards a critical up based on stars that got into the 2 cards you didnt chose like for each star on them get a 3% critical up
I though Kukulkan's kit format would be the solution for quick, using excess stars to power up quick skills, so Skadi could do a 50% on one unit 30% party by spending 20 stars. The problem is Kukulkan is a buster servant
Quick's biggest problem became Skadi being an accident while Castoria and Koyan were intentional. I do not feel we are in a position where a new support can fix it without making a lot of people angry. The latter two were designed clearly and specifically for their own looping shenanigans, and units before and after were considered for working in those systems, and replaced supports never intended for farming(both Merlin and Tamamo were designed for extended combat and only used for the lack of alternatives that gave 50% card type buffs for 3 turning).
Skadi may not have been intended to be a looper, but became on, and already has become power creeped by herself unsuccessfully, but at least kept around as a 3rd support(and due to their closeness, in many cases still a main one as well and people just borrowing 1 skadi ruler). Releasing a loop oriented servant that somehow turns crit starts from quicks into np charge that somehow makes a good chunk of Quick units capable of looping, would completely force Skadi out of the one niche she has and will never be complementary to her, especially when there is a good chance the 3rd support will be either ruler skadi or oberon instead anyways. Frankly it is skadi that needs a buff(Charge also gives say party wide NP charge and some gimmick to convert stars into np refund), but I always doubt they will do so instead of making bank, especially after Ruler Skadi.
So the best I can hope for is Skadi gets turned into Quick Oberon(Unstackable buff that soldifies her position as 3rd quick support) and they give us the quick equivalent of a Koyan but with stars=>np both on next Anniversary.
To me, I think something that could make quick system competitive with the buster/arts system in farming is a quick support that leans further into the face carding capabilities by having a skill that manipulates what cards you get. Whether that be some kind of command shuffle like buntoria or something else like changing your cards to be your DPS’s cards so they can consistently get a brave chain.
Van Gogh and Doumann setups have already proven that face card farming teams are decently viable, so a quick system that leans even more heavily into it would be fun imo
Ideally, this would make quick the best system for nodes with 2 single enemy waves because you could face card the two waves that have a single enemy and NP the third one.
I ran this idea by a friend and their only concern was that it would make quick too strong for challenge content if you can just trivialize card RNG, but it’s just an idea I’ve had for a couple years now.
TL;DR : I want a reliable face carding system for quick farming.
Another note:
Yeah you could help quick’s refund and NP gain by having split NP charge supports and NP generation buffs, but that would just be making quick farming a worse version of arts farming. So face carding is imo the only way to make quick competitive with arts
I dont think such a support would work only for the quick meta, if anything it would be the Space Ishtar of the support gang, no?
saber wars 3 with Space Sakura-face caster coming soon
@@pedromonteiro1196 Possibly.
edit: It'd probably end up like Oberon where it's technically a buster support but used everywhere anyways lol
Yeah I know a lot of people want them to add more card manipulation. They have to be careful with the balance in that area, but at this point I can't deny that's what they're leaning towards with Summer Skadi allowing you to crit hard on buster cards as well. Still oddly enough I feel like Quick as a system needs its own calling card that shouldn't rely on the other card types.
@@Khadroth I can agree with that.
A quick support that converts stars to np charge.
An idea I have for Quick is that you'd gain more NP and damage based off the stars you have at the start of any given turn. To be precise, an example: You get 30 stars at the end of turn with your Quick looper, you get 30% more damage and 30% starting gauge on top of what NP charge you already have. Naturally it'd have to be balanced, but I think making Quick thrive off getting those large amounts of stars and getting return FOR said crit stars would make them much more useful in a looping setting (as well as Challenge Quest)
They need two things. More crit buffs and more star spenders.
Kuku's optional skill star spenders are great for this and if used to strengthen previous Quick servants could be a complete game changer.
New skills that should be added are Crit NP Gain up and Crit Star Gen up. Crits already generate more but if you can slap a massive buff that only works when they critically succeed you can cement a quick supports playstyle. Osakabehime with Crit NP Gain up would have no problem using her NP more often. Wu Zetian could get AoE Crit Star Gen making her a star generator on par with Cas Gil through buffs. Skadi can still be the queen of Crit Damage.
In fact we should just have more effects on crit. Crit buff block. Crit defence down. Hell make it even more specific like Buster Crit Star gen but make the numbers just silly high so you unlock new playstyles like Buster Star Gen. Quick should be a playstyle that not only can stand on its own but also support other styles of play as well
thought about how to fix Quick since I first started playing
one thing that could help Quick a lot is providing NP refund
- For every Crit Star above 50, 1% NP gauge is given to all servants on field
- This not only helps and encourages people to lean on Quick's whole niche and playstyle, but it also lets Quick be a lot more semi-consistent
- It also solves the selfishness that crit stars provide (aka servants critting to deal damage or gain more NP)
an additional one would be to keep the damage value for Quick the same, but have its crit damage multiplier higher to make up for it
- If a Quick card doesn't crit, it deals its normal damage (weaker than Arts and Buster)
- If a Quick card crits, instead of whatever multiplier (for example 200%), its crit damage multiplier is now 300% and NP rate is half of Arts cards
- This helps its Jack of All Trades nature, but also gives players a reason to build up crit stars
might be a bit overtuned, but it's the general idea that could help
I think they could convert Iri into a quick support and putting her into the rare prism shop. Making her first skill a party wide 20% her second skill give the whole party the np gen up and her third skill giving a targeted 30/40% quick up and maybe an attack up for another dmg type.
I've seen solutions like this proposed before, another one would be adding some kind of quick up to waver. It certainly wouldn't hurt to have more options!
This video is my favorite, I couldn't help but dancing to it as the first song at my wedding!
Quick needs a merlin/tamamo unit that gives it sustainability. Skadi np is nice but without any form of healing and actual utility outside of her np she severely struggles in longer fights. To be honest I wish proto-merlin was quick.
Also a low star option around the power level of xu fu would be extremely helpful for players that don't have skadi. As someone who doesn't have her on either account I general just avoid quick units cause I don't have any real ways of supporting them.
I really felt what you said about Osakabehime. I have her grailed at 100 and I love her, but her kit is so painfully slow, it's really not that fun. Having a support rely on their NP is an issue in and of itself. It immediately eliminates any use for farming content. You are expected to use her facecards, but since her damage is abysmal, it's not a good idea to do so. It also makes CE choice awkward. You'd want something like 2030 for her first skill, but then she will literally never get her NP off. But without 2030 you're lacking in stargen unless you bring another support.
I feel like my main problem with quick which you have address here is damage, and secondly quick main issue for the longest time was the lacking in loopability in higher difficulty node and when lasangle add in the new quick lead/mighty chain is basically slapping a bandage on a deep wound, its not really fixing the main core problem which is that you basically cant loop 90+ nodes unless you have a very specially built caren or rikyu, even with that is stretching quite a bit in term of damage. Hopefully lasangle would find a better solution than just doing the bare minimum for quick fan while buster and art is getting their 20th game breaking support unit/universal looper
They're so afraid of quick being good that they constantly release good servants with absolutely crippling issues and instead spend their time creating absolutely cracked servants for buster and arts.
I’ve said it elsewhere and I’ll say it here: the benefits of the Quick Chain are completely nullified by other aspects of the game; namely skills, CE’s, and to a lesser extent, juiced up AoE Quick NP’s.
There needs to either A) be a mechanic independent of any one servant or Mystic Code that trades excess stars for an additional benefit. Something like party-wide NP gain or a Crit damage buff. But let’s be honest: we want the party-wide NP gain.
Or B) an additional benefit to choosing Quick chains beyond just the extra stars. Choosing an Arts chain is a free, flat 20% NP gain for all involved. Choosing a Buster chain is a free, flat damage bonus for all involved. I’ve always liked the idea of a Quick chain also lowering Skill cool downs by 1 for all involved. Given Quick’s lower NP gain, it’s not like solo units who just have two Quick cards in their deck can abuse it, as they won’t be able to do back-to-back NP’s to abuse the benefit.
As much as I love Koyanskaya, I really wish cool down reduction had been Quick’s thing. It would have done a lot to allow the card type to stand on its own and would have incentivized an entirely new pathos to team creation and servant selection, as well as make people excited for servants with 2+ Quick card decks.
I’d like to see a quick support unit that creates some powerful effects from stars on the field, along the lines of Calamity Jane. For instance, you can give a buff for three turns to a unit that charges their NP gauge on each turn based on the number of stars on the field (1% for 1 star). It could be capped at 50% if they would want to limit it, but I don’t think going up to 99% would even be that broken, especially since sustaining that kind of star count is really hard to do without quick looping.
Personally, I think that as crit stars are the primary advantage of quick cards, the best type of unit/buff to improve the quick system would be units that utilize stars as a currency of sorts. Basically, units that can A. promote star generation and B. exchange stars for benefits. In farming, you will almost never use the stars you generate except maybe for turn 3 carding. If units could exchange said stars for things like skill cooldown, flat NP increase, or NP regeneration. Imagine having a farmer with a 30% battery, a 20% append, then two copies of a theoretical quick support. They of course have a 50% quick skill, putting you at least at 100% quick. You could start with a 50% CE without plug or 0% CE with plug. If your character can generate even, say, 30 stars with their NP. If the theoretical support had a normal 50% battery, then a np regen buff that had a continuous drain of stars to exchange for NP. If each character exchanged 15 stars for 20% NP, that’s 30 stars for 40% NP. Between the NP regen and the batteries, that’s 90% NP per turn, making refund practically not matter. The thing about this is that due to the effectiveness of the support being based on consuming stars, the system would really only work with Quick servants and VERY select Buster servants. Also, making the NP refund requirement so low for Quick would effectively fix the issue Quick has with strange nodes, like 3-1-x or 2-2-x.
It also sort of feels like Lasengle wants quick to be a face card strategy but very few servants have face cards that compete with np's
I think since it's a Quick type it should do something with speed. like cooldowns. like make all Q NPs have an overcharge effect of reducing skill cooldowns. like at OC1 it does not reduce CD, but at OC2 it reduces all skills CD by 1(maybe even party wide). That way skills and CEs that give you OC will have more use.
Lasengle could have given my girl Rikyu a similar role just by giving her a 20% party wide NP on her first skill, it's really a shame to see the potential wasted since I find Quick so fun to use
I think there is potential to make use of excess stars past 50. In the current game going past 50 stars means nothing as you have 100% crit chance for all face cards. I think at 60 stars extra card crit, and at 70 NP crit or refund it into something else
I feel like giving quick units (especially Skadi) star trade mechanic would be the best solution. Stars, after all, is what makes quick... quick. How about giving Skadi a buff on her skill that gives party wide np charge per turn on her battery, but make the amount of np charge based on the stars you're willing to sacrifice. Or you can make the same thing but with np gain buff, seems like the best solution to make quick relevant and keep their identity at the same time, instead of making it a worse arts. And I feel like for long battles we simply need a new support at this point, since developers wasted Skadi np buff on some atk buff for some reason. Weird how they gave the full star trade mechanic to Kuku of all people, trivialising star generation even more for meta buster comps. Balancing geniuses I'm telling you
I think a good way to buff quick cards is to allow the quick cards to gather more stars than 100%.
For example, there would be 3 tiers of crit. 100% being x2 damage
200% being x4 damage
300% being x6 damage.
(Before modifiers)
For example, if your quick card has a 130% chance to crit, it would have a 100% chance to be a tier 1 crit and a 30% chance to be a tier 2 crit.
This would make gathering a lot of stars more important.
You can also buff a lot of the "Star gather rate" skills to "Increase quick card star gather rate".
They could buff "quick related" servants with adding consume stars for better effect. With this mainly quick teams would benefit because those can have more stars than needed to crit.
Heres my thinking outside the box solution: give skadi caster a buff on one of the targetable skills that is: “at the end of each turn, reduce crit stars to 0. For every 2 crit stars eliminated, increase targets np gauge by 1. (3 turns)”. Then run caster skadi and double summer skadi with ur dps
Quicks thing is generating stars, so using stars to generate np would b cool imo
Then it would gimp their ability to crit which would make them worse than Buster in CQs.
@@kun2588 idc what anyone says, skadi caster is a farming support servant, not a CQ servant. Making quick viable for farming > losing crit gimmick in CQ with skadi caster
@@gotchagaminggg Half of Skadi's steroids is in the crit bracket and her only other steroid is a debuff that is more relevant for CQs when the waves don't change...
@@kun2588 could also give the skill to a new servant 🤷🏼♂️ i wouldnt care either way
Imo they should do this:
Since we have Quick + Quick Crit Loop Support and a Quick + Buster Crit Loop Support... we need
1) Defensive Quick Support: Party Wide 20% NP, Targeted 30% NP, 30% Quick Up, 30% Attack Up, Targeted Star Absorb, Targeted 3Hit-3Turn Invul, 1% Defense Down for Every Crit Star this turn not used etc.
2) NP Gain Quick Support: Targeted 50% NP and 30% NP Gain, Party Wide Arts Up/Change All Cards this turn to Arts or something.
3) Also after every card has 100% Crit Chance any excess stars are distributed likewise giving uncapped Crit Damage Up
I think something that could work is maybe introduce units that work like the new foreigner, where they have a set skill set that includes the usual quick buff, and np battery. But like they have a consumable effect for stars. Like maybe every turn they eat some of the stars and give additional effects like extra np charge, damage buffs, or even some sort of significant healing. So that it makes use of quicks abillity to gen stars more useful since in many three turn farming scenarios you won't always card so the crit stars can sometimes be pointless. This would really synergize with units like summer skadi and I think kinda of give quick that "identity" that you mentioned, where now they have a bit of an edge because yeah other buster and arts servents can generate or dump stars but not at the same rate as quick can with their nps and not as consistently. And even if they can match the star output it wouldn't be as beneficial since buffs would still be quick-oriented.
devs trying to protect us from the very real quick boogieman who will snatch quick users right out their beds.
Some ideas I have:
1. A 1.5x muliplier on all crit damage muliplier. Making the base muliplier 3x and for example if a servant has 100% crit damage up for the quick cards act as if it is 150%.
2. Make quick effectiveness increase crit damage on quick cards slightly. Somewhere between 10% to 50% of the effectiveness buff. For example if they went with 20%, a 50% quick effectiveness would also act as a 10% crit damage up.
3. 1.5x to 2x increase to quick np gain.
4. Quick cards can gain over 100% crit chance (if there is more than 50 stars) for a chance for a higher muliplier. Example 120% crit always does the normal crit damage, but with a 20% to do more.
I'm coping we'll get seimei this year and that he'll be the quick Merlin. Hopefully not just 20% charge though. :')
A support character that can help should have
- Quick mana burst targetable or AOE Quick buff
- a single target 50%battery (less likely due to 2 skadis already having it) or even better an aoe 20 - 30% battery ,
- an aura that reduces Quick resist of enemies each turn or amplifies Quick NP gain of all allies.
Would love some quick buffs personally. Started the game last month and pulled Skadi day 1 from the GSSR. Gotta love them big crits
quick needs a way to capitalize off of >50 stars. Overstars could be a very cool unique mechanic that apply to ONLY quick cards, imagine if you could get up to 100% extra charge and damage on a card from it gathering 20 stars instead of 10 when you make 50+ stars. Maybe it's too in depth but hey, this game IS very in depth
I think a way to make them better would be that if you have a quick lead you also get a 20% damage up and maybe make them capable of partially ignore defensive buffs and deal damage to the next bar in case the enemy has one since various quick units are boss killers
My biggest gripe about Budget Quick supports is that it only has 20% quick ups in Alex and Zhang Jue. They have some good utility in buff removal and terrain manipulation respectively, but it's not exactly what I'm looking for in a budget quick support. There isn't really a burst Quick low star support the way Mozart or Chen Gong and Shakespeare are for Arts and Buster respectively.
Basically, give Quick a targettable 50% targettable Quick up with some additional effect on a budget support that's available in fp summon pool or make the next budget quick support with aoe quick up a 30% quick up for 3 turns or like 45% quick up for 1 turn aoe.
My second biggest gripe is that Osakebehime, the Quick support which is supposed to be the long-term support is less a Quick exclusive support and more watered-down universal support. *looks at the Buster up that got tacked onto her np, the fact that to get to her np you usually have to use art chains or art crits, and the fact none of her skill buffs technically have a color buff on it* Osakebehime is not bad at all, but in reality, we kinda don't have a long term Quick support.
Basically either make a new long-game Quick support, give Osakebehime more defensive options on her skills, give Osakebehime a targettable or aoe quick up on her targettable battery, or give Osakebehime aoe battery on her targettable battery.
And yes it is kinda weird that they keep giving the dps units all these aoe buff skills where in practice they're still rather selfish.
It would be really cool if we got a support servant that had the skill/ability to trade stars every turn for NP generation- like, every turn they burn up to 10-15 stars or something, and generate 20-30 NP for the front line
As a Voyager looper man something I always found frustrating is the missed looping for a minimum percentage, it could be very easily fixed not only with composed batteries, which is the easy way out, but also with per turn batteries, we can imagine a skadi buff from just the 50% battery to a 50% battery + 10% per turn for 3 turn (which would eventually double), it would make looping much easier
Another quick buff I thought was something like an hypercrit system, we know the good old 50 stars distribuited to the 5 cards, when using quick servant how common it is to get near or over 99 stars, let's use this overflow, they could make a mechanic that after distribuiting the first 50 stars the other 50 would be distribuited again to make a crit that deals double crit damage e double np gain
I really wish they had made Xu Fu a quick support instead of an arts support
I think the fear of buffing Quick as a category comes from the fear of the Critical system than anything having to do with Quick itself. They just don't have much to 'do' with Star gen since NP spam is the name of the game. Though in this, I feel Quick has a slight niche that is being underserved, being the archetype whose face cards actually matter. They do well for challenge quests quite often because of this. General node clear and loop wise, they are lacking though.
The Missing Party charge is still such a Problem. Alone with Castorias 30% Battery instead of the usual 20% she is great.
And they should Just Give us more F2P Quick Supporter. Arts has great Units Like Xu Fu & Paracelsus and Quick has more or less nothing.
Again a great Video. I can't keep Up with all your content, but i Like it xD
One way I think to help quick in general is to make them benefit more from crits, like make their np gen boosted by crits better than any card types and make their DMG boosted by crits better than any cards. As for farming, someone already stated that maybe have a 50% charger ( preferably split charge as you said ) quick support ( 50% quick up for 3 turns ) have a skill that changes star generated into np refunds, would help with the excess stars that quick nps generate ; other card types could take advantage of it too but Koyan, Merlin, Skadi, Castoria and so on are already used outside of their systems from time to time so who cares.
Khad with the godly Lancer Artoria art
Having a quick based Castoria- Party charge but still overall 50% to one unit, 50% quickup and some form of defensive NP that they can charge reasonably (Caster Skadi has questionable NP gain, only 2 arts cards, and a really meh defensive NP) would be a start. Or buffing their np gain in that beginning chart would help so more then just 3 quick units can use more CE's then just the scope.
I think having a support that reduce skill cooldown party wide by paying 10 or twenty star for a turn or 2 would be nice( with low cooldown of course so you could spam it as long as you have constant stream of star).
My idea is that the different card types should be designed for different purposes.
Build the Buster system for Challenge content, the Quick system for carding and farming (especially weird nodes like 1/2/1 or what have you, as well as weird story/event nodes), and Arts for looping.
The devs probably dont want us to get access to multi 100% crit turns consistenly but well if Arts Teams can NP 3 times in a row and buster teams can kill a boss in 1 Brave chain. I belive boosting the ability of getting crits without punishing the survability of the units is a must i feel like Quick has SOOOO MANY great units with cool designs to explore but is just too clunky to get Quick system work rigth now.
You are either too squishy or your teams go from 50 stars (the best turn) to 25 stars after that to 15 stars at best after that. It goes down in power too quickly unless you have access to skadi.
Haven't done watching this video but i have some idea in my mind
Example by kukulgan skill, we can make skadi consume cstar to boost her skill so the star from quick will be use. (Consume 10 star to change 50 battery to 100 battery)
Increase the damage multiplier from 0.8x to 1.2 to set it to a true hybrid status.
Arts to 1.0x and Buster 1.5x.
Done
Quick basically needs a quick version of Merlin or castoria
just make quick crits aoe, doesnt even have to increase their np gain by each enemy, as in crit 3 enemies with one card and get np for one same fr star gen, fun fact u could actually give them them the np gain and star gen from all enemies and it wouldnt break the game, could do a support that does it or just an ability for the card type. no matter how u cut it it will fix quick and give it a new playstyle instead of copying arts looping or buster reloading
I've always felt that Quick crits should do more damage than Buster crits. That should be the trade-off. If we're talking a character with neutral damage, then Quick crit should deal as much more damage than Buster Crit as Buster does over Arts, while non-crit damage remains the lowest. So minimum or maximum, it all depends on chance (unless you max stars).
Alternately they could just add Mighty Crits, In that you can go over 100% crit rate per card, and if you have say 135% chance then you will 100% get normal crit damage, but 35% chance to do double _that,_ and maybe Quicks gain their damage advantage on _those._ This would not only make crit cards good for attacking, but also gives "star gen" more of a place when there are already "plenty" of stars, since you could benefit from up to 100 stars.
I would enjoy them making better Quick farming systems, and having more flexible NP Gain would be very handy for that, but I would also be fine with them saying "Quicks aren't meant to three-turn farm, but they can _obliterate_ harder enemies by building massive card damage." I think that fits them thematically, not wave clearers, but assassins and snipers.
i think quick cards should at the very least be promoted to the 100% damage value, even if you have to tweek the numbers on the quick Noble Phantasms
I played JP for about a week and quick felt way better there. I have only been playing NA for about a month and a half and sadly one of my main units whos np 4 on accident is a quick servant. Summer Sei does amazingly with her facecards but her np does such little damage due to the lack of quick support and the fact her np isnt strong to begin with.
The problem is again, the damage is crap. I think quick should have the same damage as arts since quick is focusing on facecards while arts are focused on NP. If you need insane damage then you go Buster.
Well, I think quick has two different issues:
1. It just doesn't really bring anything to farming that arts and buster don't.
2. It doesn't really have a stand out sustain support.
For 1. the main issue is because it has middling NP gains, and in farm scenarios you don't want to rely on RNG crits, arts and buster will always be more reliable as arts has better NP gain, and buster doesn't care about NP gain at all. Fixing this one is tricky as it is very easy to just make quick another arts and right now honestly I think we can largely ignore this issue as while they aren't the best, they are functional.
So 2 is the bigger issue. Osaka was supposed to be the sustain support, but she's clumsy, and further creating an issue, she's close to OP solo. So, fixing her is a pain as do it wrong and she suddenly becomes a solo monster. Also doesn't help matters that she's built weird compared to the other sustain supports (Merlin, and Lady Avalon being prime examples). Her type boost is built into her NP, but at only 3 rounds even though it could theoretically stack, outside of solo it basically never does. Her def up is okay, but nothing impressive especially when not stacked. Her single target 20 NP... well is laughable. Fixing her is... troublesome. Theoretically though if you gave her some means of forcing her overcharge, fixed that battery skill and maybe give some better NP gain in party, maybe. Again we have to be careful about her becoming a solo monster though, so any buffs need to either be indirect (ie from another support), or not really affect her solo play. So that leans to a new sustain support to partner with her, someone kinda like Himiko, but more focused on quick support. Alternately we could simple ditch Osaka and build a new sustain support who basically fixes the problems with Osaka directly.
90+ and 90++ np gain is irrelevant.
Quick is literally better than Buster for anything below 90+ rn. On the higher end, they're better than anyone else at crit farming. Idk where this idea comes from that Quick is bad for farming.
I think quick should boost extra cars dmg as well. Quick should be very focused on specifically face card dmg and should be the best at it and a niche they could take on would be allowing for extra cars to crit due to excess stars. Quick definitely should have had the middle multiplier for dmg and they should be utilizing excess stars as well. I think a cool mechanic would be for quick to have the chance of hitting twice actually, being the “riskiest” card and least consistent but also potentially doing the most crit dmg as well as NP dmg IF it can go twice. Quick should follow its own name. I understand multiple NPs might mess things up but I think if you have enough stars maybe rather than doing an extra attack maybe it does an NP at the end of a brave chain or maybe it does multiple extra attacks or gives some sort of permanent/long term buffs which would make quick the best in long fights. Consistency is great for farming but in certain boss fights sometimes you want to play for the long game or do all the dmg in one huge turn and quick should allow people to do that. Maybe every 5 stars past 50 adds an extra hit to each card up to a max of 20 and then maybe stars past 70 amp crit rate on extra card. Passive buffs based on star conditions would be great on Quick servant NPs.
It would be nice to have a Koyanskaya for quick.
That way they won't rely on refund that much like buster. But it would be too op.
So, just give the new support NP gain down buff so quick can't refund.
Every thing should be balanced that way.
Starting with a Quick card increases crit damage by 50% and a Quick Chain increases the chains crit damage by an additional 50%?
the biggest mistake here is that quick cards have these relatively low stats because crit stars double the stats of every card, a servant will have 80% 100% arts and 150% buster damage on his first card but the next servant would have 160% quick 200% arts and 300% buster damage because you generated stars the turn before that, and that without counting the stars refunded from crits but also the np gained, one could say well just use busters and arts 2 turns well no because lets say you use a quick chain first and after an arts chain compared to two art chains, the two art chains will generate more np because of the 20% bonus of it, but if the arts chain gets all crits or even 2 its gonna generate almost the same np and is gonna deal as much damage as 2 art chains plus de damage of your quick chain, just gona use first card numbers to make the math easy
arts chain + arts chain= 300%+300%=600%damage
buster+buster=450%+450%=900%
quick chain + arts chain=240%+600%=840% damage
quick+buster=240%+900%=1140%
in essence quick cards are stronger when take turns with the other cards, saying that there are skills that generate stars downplay quick cards is like saying arts cards are weaker because of batteries or np gain buffs, or that buster are weaker because of atk buffs this things just strength them, np gain arts generate even more np, atk buff buster do even more damage, i start the turn with 20 or 30 stars or i have star drop up because skills if i go quick the next turn is gonna be 50 stars to nuke an enemy with buster or to charge my entire party's np
I think you are right in that Quick needs access to partywide charge, but I also think the fundamental design of their DPS Servants lately is wrong-headed. We don't need Arts loopers in green clothing, let alone the minor gimmicks that get washed out because they're just not enough. The way they've handled Quick units post-Skadi is the most frustrating aspect of this whole thing, as given what they've done with Arts and Buster it really does feel like they're intentionally holding Quick down, and that feels like a kick in the teeth.
To that end, I think a change that would give Quick a massive boost overnight would indeed be to get rid of card RNG somehow, since Quick often wanted to crit waves down even during the Skadi era. That would help it deal with irregular nodes in a unique way so that it doesn't just need to ape Arts with more NP gain and Buster with more brute force charge. I always enjoyed critting a wave down during the Skadi era - it was fun to do something else besides firing off an NP every single wave. And it would give Quick a capability that Arts largely just cannot do. Plus, it's not like Arts and Buster wouldn't benefit from that change either, so I think everybody wins.
I don't know if they'll ever do that, but last Anniversary suggested they're open to retooling the basic game systems, so I will at least plug it next Survey we get.
Tbf the entire fgo community looks at quick as arts looping which is the problem. Everyone wants quick to have more np gain so quick servants can fully refund like arts servants (which funnily enough some can like Dantes though only against certain enemies) and that just straight up defeats the purpose of Arts at that point.
Or course I’m not saying they can’t slap a np gain buff on Skadi but really it won’t help the majority of quick servants tbh
@Djdhdd Shshs I agree, which gets back at Kad's point that they messed up right at the beginning with the Card's abilities. Not that it can't be fixed and they haven't made progress to that end, which he also mentioned, but if the goal is to keep the playstyles of Buster, Arts, and Quick differentiated the answer has to lie in addressing the issue generated by the core mechanics of the game rather than putting a band-aid on it with Servant design. The best Quick units are good despite being Quick and never because of it, generally speaking.
I really do think axing card RNG is at least part of the solution. In the early years of the game it was probably necessary, but now with NP spam so trivial all it does is push people away from carding towards the NP you can more or less guarantee.
Although quick is in a worse spot the "Boogeyman" for the devs is the fact that quick has the most np damage. The moment quick is able to loop like arts or buster it will come out on top.
Imagine a quick servant that can do 1/1/X loop why would you ever need arts or buster that deals less damage. Atleast that's what i think the boogeyman the devs are afraid of.
Main issue is not that quick falls at support other than Skadi, because lets be honest buster works only due to Koyanskaya and arts due to castoria (sorry fluffy tail fans). The issue is that Skadi was designed to be that support while only Tamamo and Merlin were her enemies at best supports. So she worked, but when they broke the game with releasing koyanskaya and castoria, skadi just fails. And they visibly wanted to buff skadi with releasing her as ruler BUT as she was ruler so better class they were afraid of making her too good
Osakabehime buff could help quick and help my neet waifu..... you're making me dream again, Khad.
Quick cards may be the weakest but Quick NP is the strongest of all NP types, having higher NP modifier (post card-type modifier) for both AoE and ST values. Couple that with Skadi being the first inherent 3T looping enabler with just one Quick damage dealer, it does make sense that, at that time, Lasengle would want to diversify the Quick roster and limit the value of looping (somewhat) so it's not too obnoxious. Ofc, it makes no sense now since we and Lasengle have finally embraced looping (too much that we get a shitton of AoE) but hindsight is 20/20.
The most frustrating and necessary part of Quick looping is that, to be able to loop, most Servants need some amount of NP Gain Up and those without suffers a lot more. A lot of Quick Servants have trouble looping because it can't just loop with double Summer Skadi much like Arts do with double Castoria. Nero Bride or Paracelsus are basically an essential part of most Quick looping comps.
EDIT: As for Quick cards, I always thought that it was meant to be a 'support' card. Basically, an action that pre-empts and strengthens the other cards. Before the Quick upgrade, they only boost the next turn's cards which isn't helpful. Now, +20% crit chance immediately is such a gamechanger to how well Quick cards can support the other used cards that turn as well.
EDIT 2: If Quick gets another buff, I wanna see it get an innate doubled crit performance. That's quadruple the boost of everything from damage, NP gain and star gen. Another way is to make a new Quick support that enables the Servant's NP to crit and positioned in a way similar to Oberon where it's best on Quick but can be used for any Servant. While it may sound a bit silly, if a Servant's NP can crit, the biggest win would be Quick Servants since they're the ones that would generate a ton more stars and can more efficiently take advantage of it (since it means 60 stars is the maximum required for guaranteed crits now). Basically, just bank in on the idea that Quick NPs are supposed to be the deadliest.
Would also be nice that when you have a Quick Chain you get automatically Crit UP. Or give the Quick card/chain a higher flat crit damage. Instead of being x2 you have a x3.5 or something like this. Something that would be stronger than Arts crit but still not as strong as a Buster Crit. It is quite sad that Buster just works because it's brute power and Arts is just spamming NP, Quick is good but asks for a lot of preparation, it doesn't guarantee that you'll have the crit stars on the right card next turn and it also doesn't guarantee that you will have the right command cards next turn..
I also find it somewhat problematic that Quick has pretty hard ceiling. A few skills aside, once you hit 50 stars there's no point is getting any more. Buster can just keep doing more damage, Arts can reach higher Overcharge levels (until 300%, admittedly). 99 stars and no Moriarty or Kuku on the team? Congrats on the 49 useless stars.
The easy solution is to make the excess stars carry over, essentially making it so every turn consumes 50 stars, then the rest can last for an additional turn, possibly allowing super high star generators to create multi-turn garenteed crits.
The more interesting solution in my mind is to give excess stars some other benefit. My first thought was each star above 50 gets consumed and gives the party 1% NP. Admittedly, that somewhat screws over those Servants that DO consume stars for skills, since it makes it so you can't both activate the star eating skill and have guaranteed crits on the same turn without a star bomb of some kind, but it at least makes >50 stars more generally useful.
Not a popular opinion, but ima just throw it in to get opinions from yall:
Ive been using all Quick, Arts, and Buster teams, to narrow it down lets just focus on looping and farming, on 80-90+ nodes.
Buster has no issues with Koyan Morgan and Oberon, they got NP batteries, Crit star bombs, and damage, even if theyre all underlevelled.
Arts got the most insane refund with a few nodes and setup can give you 100% NP charge the moment you finish your NP. However they cant generate stars on the NP alone meaning that you need skills or specific command codes, castoria doesnt have a crit bomb skill, so if your NP doesnt kill and all your buffs ran out, then youre fucked on the next turn.
Quick deals the least damage out of all 3 teams but they generate tons of stars just by 1 NP, without using skills or command codes. So they can follow up with 100% crit damage on the next turn, although taking into account RNG of course, can also fuck you up on the next turn. That said, their NP refund is also unpredictable sometimes, needing 3 enemy waves to guarantee at least 50% refund. Same as Arts, once your NP doesnt kill and your buffs ran out, youre fucked too.
I think what supports quick should have and what they should do is a consequence of what the card type itself is supposed to do and right now quick is mostly a star generator... imo it shouldn't just be that, instead it should really double down on critical damage. Currently a buster crit is much stronger than a quick crit in most cases and that shouldn't be the case. Buster should be the strongest card type when it doesn't crit and quick should be the strongest when it crits. Tho I'm pretty sure such a change wouldn't sit well with most "red means dead" lovers :D
I think the problem with double Skadi is that its just a sitting duck after turn3.
Something I never understood, does "Arts up" and "Quick up" also increase damage of those cards or just the NP gain/Star gain?
All card type up’s increases those cards or np’s power too.
Both. Card-color steroid enhances every aspect of the card.
There’s also a cap on stargen unlike np gain which makes quick even worse
Improve a bunch of old skills and buffs by making them scale with star consumption.
i have a feeling johanna will be what koyanskaya is to merlin but for skadi. or i could be totally wrong and she'll be another aoe arts servant. either way i have enough for pity and ive been waiting for her since traum.
well... 😂
@@Khadroth aged like milk
Maybe a support that can turn stars into NP - they did it with Calamity Jane so if they could tweak that? And Kukulkan got it too so now if they can apply it to a Quick support... I've been wanting a quick support that can make use of the stars for charge since I started this game 2 years ago. With charge across instead of single target 50% like Skadi.
I was happy that we got Taigong Wang, but then they release Tezcatlipoca, and then Quick is also the only one with no 50% charge aoe berserker (Buster-Morgan, Arts-Summer Ibuki).
And defense I guess? So far we have Skadi's 1 time evade, whereas arts has Castoria, and even Buster has Merlin for partywide invul.
Sen is the Quick equivalent of Morgan/SIbuki. Quicks generally prefer not to have 50% battery if it isn't split because they can't make use of their append otherwise.
@@kun2588 that’s my point - Sen is a quick equivalent. No single 50% or split 50%, just 30% and it was still considered impressive because she was Quick, whereas it would have been less so if she was Buster or Arts. It’s like they want to kneecap every quick unit. The fact that quick ‘prefers’ thirty for the append is also proof of the problem quick has in both limited Support and the reliance on append charge.
@@gogobebe8460 No, you've got that backwards. The 30% isn't impressive because she's Quick; it's because Quick can't use the append anyway and 30% is the same as a 50% unsplit to them either way so it's not a demerit. It's the same story with Buster, 30% charge is the same as 50% charge on T1 because of append. There is no preference here, a 50% battery is simply a waste for them because they can't make use of the extra 20%.
Isn't quick technically better for challenge quests/consistent DPS though?
The first and foremost thing quick needs is a split battery support and NP gain budget Xu Fu
Quick supports should have NP that could help the team..OG Skadi have a supportive NP but her NP gain sucks and she can't charge the team either (neither can summer Skadi). One time evade and death resist is meh most of the time.
SSkadi's NP outright useless and her kit is only useful to quick servants with more than 2 buster cards. Oh well, at least she's great if you have Bazett.
They need to buff dots fr a lot of quick servants and just servants in general could benefit
i like quick but i also think since a lot of busters and arts np has stars bombs it makes que stars less unique to quick.
since skadi realease a lot of quick damage dealer can meet the 50stars requirement whithot self buffs when they add the 20% chance if you lead with quick only helps on turn 1 because the other turns you can get stars by you own i wish they make over shoot star gen usefull because that is the only quick advantage something like if you get more crit chance by having more than 50 stars or leading with quick when you already has 100% on your cards +20% it give you extra crit dmg to the card
i think skadi caster need a skill strengening who gives her 20-30 self battery that way you can have her buffed NP more reliable and a new quick support with 30% party wide battery and healing
They need to release quick supports that are good and not just another skadi
Quick does have a high damage mod on np to try making up for the damage look at ushi
Love your videos but please free your doggos 😭😭😭
they look so crammed in there :(
Haha they actually get plenty of time outside and I have a nice big backyard for them to run around in. Don't worry I love them too much to keep them constantly cooped up.
Are they only in there during your filming? Cause that makes sense so they don’t get in the way.
But, it would be nice if u let them roam around your house most of the day.
@@josephogaz4754 Yeah theyre only in there during streams
@@Khadroth they should have given Okki party wide Charge on np instead of buster performance up, that would have helped quick in terms of staying power.
10:55 in regard to this, what if they released a quick support that could alter the face cards to your will, similar to summer bb or bunny lartoria
Im stuck with mostly quick looping because i failed to get castoria
its funny how dobule damage quick opening card is just a buster card. If you crit quick its the same as you would just buster
what Quick really need is more LOW RARITY quick supports. to this day we still dont have a Quick equivalent to mozart (arts) or chen gong (buster). Quick economy is too expensive
when screwing around with star gen focused setups you can easily make way over 50 stars... maybe make it so extra stars over 50 has a benefit like 1% extra party crit damage per extra star over 50 for a max bonus of 49%? Or maybe the extra stars turn into np refund split between the party (max of 13% np for 3 units or 49% np if you somehow make 99 stars while solo) Ooooorrrr... extra stars get stockpiled by your backline and become a star bomb when your backline enters the field?
What if Quick cards on NP only charged a guaranteed amount of the NP bar before refund. Sort of like Artoria Saber or Lily Da Vinci, whats you guys thoughts on this?
Lasagna should give Osakabehime a party 30% NP charge and an all enemies def down on her third skill 💀
We need a Quick Merlin or Oberon, my suggestion would be Dumas.
You made some good points (even if I disagree slightly on some of them). I personally feel quicks less desirable nature is also impacted by the strength and availability of NPs. Nowadays it is just way way too easy to access any servants NP without much issue. There is too much NP charge in the game. NPs are reliable, you dont rely on card RNG with them and can plan ahead easily. Back when Waver was the only big NP charger in the game, facecards as a whole had a lot more value.
But then there is the second issue. Facecards are RNG. And quick invests into the facecards of the future by being the crit focused card type. That in itself is an issue when you dont know if you will even get the cards of your damage dealer the following turn. Additionally crits themselves are RNG unless you generate enough stars to guarantee them. So the intended stategy of using a turn to generate stars with quick and then using those stars on the following turn to greatly buff your buster or arts cards never worked out how it should have been.
Solving this is honestly not easy. The game has come too far to make such fundamental changes like nerfing every NP change in the game. One addition I think would have helped is letting us see the facecards of the upcoming turn in advance (under the assumtion that the current party would stay the same). That way the unreliable nature of quick cards could have been mitigated a bit more and we could have made more strategic decisions. But even that change would not help that much nowadays with the over availability of NPs and diminished value of facecards.