Defending Elsa From Schaffrillas Productions
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
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I don't appreciate misrepresenting characters.
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Pretty good response! I haven't changed my mind about Elsa but I think your interpretation of her character is valid.
I AGREEE!
wholesome
YES THE COMMENTARY COMMUNITY CONTINUES TO BE THE MOST CIVIL COMMUNITY
I disagreed with the elsa video because it only has 2 Jojo references
What is this a crossover episode?
12:11 "She didn't know Hans was evil. No one did-not even Hans!" I stg laughed so hard at that 😭
Lol
I feel like the idea is Hans being corrupted by power is far more interesting than him being evil from the off, but the creative team for Frozen has tended to imply that the latter is the case. I think that the reason why Hans is so irritating is the writing for his twist scene. I think that there are a lot of overly ambitious twenty something men who would make the same despicable decision in the same situation, but none of them would turn into a gloaty Saturday morning supervillain...
brandon roberts magically evil because trolls
@@Rtotalmagic Not sure I'd agree with last part tbh. You'd be surprised by what young men would give up for pussy lol
I think that it would be good to have Hans go mad but they probably didn’t think about that but let’s pretend they did to make the film better.
"Anna didn't know Hans was evil, no one did, not even Hans." That's one of the funniest things said about his twist reveal I've heard.
Coming to the defense of Ariel, she actually is not boy crazy as she is depicted. She is more curious about the human world long before Eric. And what gets her to want to give up her fins is the fact her father's strictness causes her to make a rash decision based on him angering her.
Preach.
@@AlbinoTanuki I mean in the animated series she was in she was really the opposite of boy crazy and was interested in having fun with friends, exploring, and even rescuing people.
Finally someone said it. Ariel is adorable and deserves a better life.
Also, Ariel is 16 while Elsa is 21. Of course Elsa would be more mature.
92JazzQueen and schaffrillas likes Ariel. These are parallels between shiny and shady.
15:52 Elsa could've said 'Anna, I need to talk to you in private'
*In the movie*
Elsa: Can we talk about this? In private?
Anna: No. Whatever you can say, you can say in front of us
Me:...................BRUH
Syrus Angi she wasn’t going to tell her she had powers. She wanted to talk in private to tell hers he can’t marry Hans.
@@duolingo_abuse_is_realclub7949 and what makes you assume she wasn't going to try and tell her about her powers too?
I mean, why want to talk in private just to tell Anna she can't marry Hans?
Literally the next thing Schaff says is "Or you and Hans, whatever"
Syrus Angi well Schaffrillas was talking about ice powers, and in the movie she wanted to talk to her about han
Syrus Agni never said anything about what the topic of their conversation was going to be so your kinda jumping to conclusions
It's so weird lol never thought schrafillas and shady would collide
When Two Worlds Collide 😏
And prozd
@@ahappyaccident7879 Well ProZD isn’t that big of a stretch
two young adults "fighting" over elsa's character.....i love it
Still more manly than asking Disney to remake an entire trilogy
Pretty funny when you think about it
Discussing
People in 1945: We just won the war against Germany using computers, at this rate we will be able to do computers able to work for us
People in 2021:
😭⌐(😎) 😡
Haha, elsa don't have personality NO, ELSA IS MORE MATURE THAN OTHER PRINCESESS
this comment has 314 likes
homestuck trash rise up
Wait.
Shady... shiny...
hehe foils are funny
My interpretation is that Elsa is a true introvert, and that's why Schaffrillas doesn't like her. She is governed by the intense inner world of emotion and thoughts, as opposed to the external outward exuberance of Anna. The moment she's alone is when she comes truly alive, her true personality shines through, whether its when she's all alone and crying on the floor, or all alone and taking great comfort/enjoyment in the solitude. They're both great characters in their own respects, and people will probably relate more strongly to one or the other. I love Elsa more than Anna because I understand why she acts the way she does and relate to her. I don't think Schaffrillas does. As a theater kid and person who puts himself out there on a regular basis through his videos, Anna resonates more with him. But he completely misses the internal nature of Elsa's character. He's mistaking the tip for the whole iceberg of Elsa's personality.
True true I love Elsa in Frozen 2 because her character development is awesome and she finds her true self which is amazing and her mommy was in this movie which is awesome I haven't seen her mom that often only enough Frozen to but that's about it and her dad I also love Anna's characters that when she's more more like lovable and funny and very very emotional which is awesome.
eh, elsa doesnt really fit that "true introvert: tag, she acts more like someone whos shut away, shes not introverted by choice, but by the things forced upon her, for me she was a lazy take on a introvert, barely surface level. honestly i found it kinda insulting for her to portay introverts that way.
as an aroace introvert girl I really agree with this
I don't like Elsa and I'm an introvert.
This is stating the obvious, but this is a good point. Elsa is clearly an introvert, while Anna is clearly an extravert. Introvert is still a legit personality trait. This is something that Shiny misses entirely. I am an introvert myself. I can relate to Elsa very well. She is my favorite Disney character.
im really glad you talked about this because elsa as a character really spoke to me ( a 17 year old oop lol ) because ive been through abuse and made harmful decisions because of it. I really wanted to isolate myself, and seeing elsa discover a balance between self expression and love for others really helped me. but then i hear so much hate for the movie and i kinda felt like maybe i was stupid for liking it. So its really nice to hear someone defend elsa. I completely agree tho- the hype was hell to live through 😂😭
Theres a scene in legion where David analyzes (not rogue) and is trapped inside her past until she figures out what she wants him to learn from it.
And that thing is that she is a survivor no matter what.
Where he sees her weakness, she sees her strength.
I might feels the same about Ben/Kylo
I feel sorry for you I hope you're alright and by the way I love Frozen 1 and 2 because they have good character arcs especially Elsa because she's a very good character and she's she's learned to let people in and to feel love and family but she's been hiding herself from her sister for a long time which I don't blame her because she doesn't want to hurt her and also Elsa finds her true self that's a good like I'm not message for a kids or adult to find happiness and yourself that's a good message that kids and adults want to learn yes I'm 17 by the way and I have special needs and I've learned to find happiness and life and love myself inside and out my lola expecting to be perfect but I don't want to be perfect I want to be free and happy Elsa is a very good character for people especially teenagers and kids.
@@swordpegasus4032 I hope you better grow up or else get your brain checked coz it might be a problem for you from the moment you once start to step out in the reality.
Elsa's character is nothing but trash that was completely justified by the end even although she was practically nothing more than a huge burden on her little sister for like 15 years , created a monster to rip her apart , tried to kill the two guards even after she wasn't really in danger anymore , running AWAY from the mess that the sister is cleaning up , but then her actions are never really met with any consequences.
Quite ironically , the main villain who spent the entire movie cleaning up the mess , pampering the protagonists , making Anna genuinely happy , saving Elsa's life is rewarded with discrimination from every single character he's worked to help for. A villain with No backstory , no signs of foreshadowing , just a villain who wants to become the king even although he's already a prince and has almost every thing he already needs , for god knows what reason. And then , he's defeated ASAP and treated like a dirt for every moments after
But in real life , Unlike her , you won't really get your success handed over to you in a silver platter. And other people are not going to spend their time pampering you
@E . A Missed what point? And what I didn't understand? Explain with arguments, not like this, then we can discuss...
Ive seen people compare this to finding dory in how parenting affects children greatly. Both elsa and dory are the character with a defining feature, but elsas parents only furthered depression and related problems by trying to hide it vs dorys parents embracing the feature and working with how to handle it and normalize that there shouldnt be shame in it.
Wow! Surprised I never once thought of that!
that's pretty disturbing considering dory's 'feature' appears to represent disability.
I love schaffrilas productions, and usually he's right on the money with his analyses, but with this one I agree with you: he entirely missed the point with Elsa as a character in too many ways. His entire critique was flawed because of this and I'm glad you made this response as you summarized my many issues regarding his video, in yours here. I'm happy to follow both of you!
I'm surprised he goes on about how she's deeply forgettable when her personal struggles and what they could be an allegory for irl fuelled conversations for years.
He's alright but I do think hes a bit flawed or biased in his movie reviews like the Nostalgia Critic but still Doug is worst between the two.
Ray Chow Agreed.
Axis Height, how?
@@rwkc3004 Not to mention that he can be hypocritical sometimes, like the aforementioned Nostalgia Critic. Here’s a good example, he gets unreasonably angry when he mentions Doug’s opinion that Comedy has an element of tragedy to it and wracks on his opinion on the movie then I believe towards the end of the video he says “Oh I don’t care if you like this movie.” If you don’t care then why wrack on Doug for his opinion?
The inherent deadliness of Elsa's powers was really never considered by Tamatoa man, was it? Ice powers may just be too abstract to interpret from a film perspective based on rationality alone. Perhaps the themes would have sunk in more if the movie was called "Fired" and Elsa had secret guns in her hands that would go off if she felt too much strong emotions.
The film would've been far too short. She could've just fired Hans and duke weasel man from the party and it would've been over.
Yep,because we live in a society where critical thinking is too hard for people sometimes
It all comes back to what I realized about Schafrillas during his Joker (2019) review: he has a love-hate relationship with objectivity. Sometimes, he can nail what makes certain things good and bad, like with his deconstruction of all the Shrek films. And he even has plenty of moments where he sings the praises of something he doesn't like (I can't think of any examples, sadly).
Other times, though... dreck like this slips through the cracks due to his bias getting the best of him.
But unlike most, Schafrillas is willing to admit his faults as a critic. And for that he has absolutely earned my respect. 😁
As someone whose experience trauma at a young age and had to become an adult fast, I really realated to Elsa. I mean depression can play a part in some of Elsa's choices, however I see more sympathy and self discovery. She wants to connect with an estranged family member, and she needs to discover herself outside of the situation she was given. Its like sand madalas; after hours of creation, they are destroyed to remove emotional attachment. With Elsa its kind of reevaluating her perspective on what is important.
Thank you for defending our queen S2
I really enjoy most of schafrilla's content, but that was the one video I found myself repeating over and over "Yeah, I don't think you understood the character at all"
(Also, being aro, that part where schafrillas said Elsa should get a romance because that would make her more interesting... it hurt a little. I love that her priorities have to do with her family, her kingdom and herself)
Anytime people suggest a romantic love interest to fix a character I throw up a little. If a character has to piggy back off another to be interesting then that isn't a character. It's a plot device
Elsa doesn’t need anyone. No one needs anyone to be happy. Plus I like how Elsa is independent
@ It’s a movie. I understand that other people have other opinions but you don’t have to make a big deal about it. Plus the video explains the questions your asking me and I’m not the one that made it so why are you coming at me just because I talked about my opinion?
SAME. Im ace and aroflux, and that part stung. Elsa was always my favorite disney princess/queen because I related so much to her fear and depression induced actions (Yes i think she suffered from some form of depression, especially after being locked in her room for so long). But what really made her shoot to my top favorites was the fact that she never had a love interest. As someone with younger siblings, seeing sibling relationships prioritized as well as the fact that you cant just fall in love and marry someone immediately really made my day. Then people like shiny wanting a romantic interest to 'flesh her out more' implies you cant be whole without romance. like NO. Every other princess has a romantic partner, let us has at least one. Its also why Merida and Moana are more favorable to me. Im glad im not the only one who had a problem with that part.
Why would you make this about you lol
21:25 "It's not that big of a big deal if people like or dislike a character, but misrepresenting them is when I start to speak up"
I have often said something similar. "I don't care if you disagree with me, I care if you disagree for erroneous/fallacious reasons".
Sorry for the extreme tardiness of this video. LOTS of technical difficulties, some of which are still present within the video.
What do you guys think of Elsa? Agree with me? Side with Schaffrillas? Have a third opinion?
I never really liked her much to begin with, but I don't really think she's as badly written as Schaffrillas Productions says. Plus I do like Let it Go.
Although I think Schaf misrepresented Elsa’s character, I do agree the fact that her arc was lacking a bit. I do think the set up of her character arc was pretty good, but I wished that she would have come back with her own choice. I wished there was a scene where something happens that will make her decide to go back. I felt her arc was a little unearned. Even I’ve been following his channel for months now, and I prefer Anna, I don’t think Elsa was a terribly written character.
Something about your voice sounds different. I can't put my finger on it.
Schaffrillas deleted my comments. It was constructive criticism mixed with praise.
It’s good that you’re better at handling criticism than he is. I hope your channel continues to grow, you need more subs
Oh yes, I most certainly agree with you about Elsa.
I agree with you so much. Elsa is serious and a little aloof, just like Garnet’s character in Steven Universe. but that, by no means, makes them boring. Due to trauma and the teachings of her parents, Elsa’s learned to live like this. But you can clearly see, with her facial expressions, all the emotional turmoil she’s going through. She’s been through so much, just as Anna has. They compliment each other so well. And Elsa’s growth is one of trusting others again, and herself most importantly. So she can feel love and give love again.
Yeah I like Shiny in general, but his video on Elsa was aweful. He really missed everything about her.
I like your response. It was way more accurate and focused on all aspects to the story and characters nice work Shady.
He needs a page on the Atrocious RUclipsrs wiki.
@@nicholasdruce5346 For one video. Brilliant.
@@nicholasdruce5346 Careful there, your bias is showing.
@Nicholas Druce "Oh no. He doesn't like Elsa. Worst RUclipsr ever." Come on man give me a break. The video itself is not criticizing Schafrillas as a youtube, he's criticizing his points on the character Elsa. There is a difference. You can argue about an opinion but you don't insult someone for it. He literally commented on this video saying "Pretty good response! I haven't changed my mind about Elsa but I think your interpretation of her character is valid." That shows respect. They can disagree, but they respect each other's opinions.
his video wasn't awful. You simply didn't like it.
When you said " the dress the hair, the song" I could think was Maui "the tats, the hair the bod"
When your staring at a demi god
what can I say except yOURE WELCOmE.
For the tides, the sun, the sky
There’s no need to pray, it’s okay, you’re welcome!
I’m just an ordinary Demi God
Sheesh, she was basically abused her whole childhood. His complaints were super unfair.
he kind of strikes me as someone who has never experienced any trauma and thus struggles with empathy.
@@Peyton1218 well this aged like milk
@@Peyton1218 "Someone I know nothing about has an opinion disagree with! I'm gonna assume things about them to make myself feel superior!"
You ain't it.
@@Peyton1218Well, I feel like people would defend certain parts of the game Portal 2 from all the criticism I'd give it. I think Wheatley from Portal 2 is a badly written character because of his annoying jokes, constant talking, unusual habits and a 4th reason which is a spoiler. I think Portal 2 is a 2/10 game by the way, and the worst Valve game.
“Elsa doesn’t have personality” well… she’s aloof and sheltered and afraid of herself …. So her having a “vibrant” personality wouldn’t be congruent. She is reserved and sheltered and scared and her personality unfolds into a confident goddess !!! Now that’s what I’m talking about! I love her personality !
Her battle isn’t typical: not some buoyant princess who is just so cool and has to fight against an oppressive world… Elsa is oppressed by her feelings, with help of her parents and trolls…. she is the (main) villain and the hero and it’s just so good!! Sry maybe not articulate but I’m busy haha
@@billygoatandfriends that is actually a really good analysis!👍 Takes the "fighting your inner demons" line to a whole nother level. 😂
1: Why did SP private his video? :(
2: She can still be reserved and have a personality/interesting character, which she really didn’t. I don’t hate her but I don’t understand how she outdid Anna in terms of popularity.
@@zigzagintrusion I think the reason why she was more popular than Ana, was because she was easily relatable to their main target audience, as much as Disney doesn't want to admit it, (*cough* marketing purposes *cough*) who are young girls. for them, I think elsa was the first really relatable princess. now I'm not saying that Ana's not relatable, but she has the same aesthetic trope as every other disney princess, which is getting a love interest. Girls don't think about wanting to marry boys, or anything that would seem lovey dovey to them, at that young kid age. Elsa is relatable to them for that, because not once is she shown to think about that, nor is it one of her main interests. her powers help her as well. just as a little boy would look up to say, superman because he's cool at fighting action, the same is done with elsa, with little girls instead. at least that's just my theory.
@@dragonsman4733 What do you think about non-binary kids and gender abolition?
I usually like Schaffrillas (usually), but I agree that this vid was a bit much. There’s a lot to be annoyed with in how Elsa is marketed, sure, but he makes a lot of totally unfounded claims that you address. I personally don’t even like the movie that much, and actually wanted to agree with him, but it just seemed... bitter? Either way, great video!
Needle41 - For me Elsa was a missed opportunity. She should have been a case study in self-hating depression and its effects/solutions. Instead, the movie’s second half / Disney’s marketing team decided she was a normal “Disney Princess”. To me, I’m more miffed that they dropped the ball on Elsa; but Shaffrillas is more miffed that Elsa takes up more space on store shelves than his boy Tomatoa.
Agreed. I like Schaffrillas but he kinda missed the mark with his video
Frozen is a flawed yet decent movie but I think "Let It Go" is the reason why I actually stepped away from the film. Goodness grace! The hate is getting way off the charts back when it got first released, especially when someone called it "overrated". This is kinda similar to what happened to _My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic_ when the show got popular back in the early to mid 2010s and everyone hated it whether it's because it has anything to do with the fandoms (not every fans of the show are bunch of weird neckbeards) or the show itself.
Frozen could've been better if Elsa was originally the main villain of the story just like what Hans Christian Andersen written in the story. When "Let It Go" comes out of top, they ditched the original idea and make her a misunderstanding character. There are a lot of plot holes in the film, like how Hans is an unexpected villain who we don't know how he's even a villain in the first place (unless the trolls theory makes sense). I think Duke Weasel Town should be the main villain instead.
@@poweroffriendship2.0 Frozen would be ruined if they made Elsa the villain.
@@samwallaceart288 she'd be a typical Disney princess no matter what cause that's literally who's making the movie 😂 Also she does have a lot of misplaced self hate cause of all the emotional trauma and abuse she's been through her whole life.
I think princesses like Cinderella and Snow White deserve some respect too. They were both also victims of abuse from abusive stepmothers. Elsa's abuse was just different from theirs
It’s so fun watching two grown men argue about a character from a Disney movie released in 2013*
Fiona Natalia, frozen was released in 2013 not 2014
Pj Dixon even better
@AT Productions ikr
@@pjdixon6199 it was released late 2013, which was around the corner of 2014. Hell it was still considered new back in 2014
That's a great example of how powerful story telling is to human culture. It's the same reason why the great myths from 1000s of years ago still draw our interest today. It's not a trivial thing.
I am so glad you made this omg. This was great. I love Frozen; it was my special interest in college. I did a huge paper theoretically diagnosing Elsa with Generalized Anxiety Disorder*, and analyzed her behavior through the lens of The Madwoman in the Attic for a Literature class. ;__; The way they handled Hans was a terrible mistake though, but otherwise pretty good movie.
*not saying she has this. I've also considered complex ptsd, but went with GAD for my college paper because i knew more about it.
Calm down Piper
Love your vids Piper
Honestly as one who has gad I can actually see Elsa having it.
Worst thing about analysis vids about Elsa is the creepy kids videos that come up in the recommendations :/
Julia 713
Oh just saw that....I hate it
Elsagate 2.0?
Oh God Elsagate 🤮
Yeah. It's the Elsagate videos. It's a good thing that memes of RUclips Kids satirized the absurd rabbit hole of RUclips kids videos.
As someone who played Elsa as her first major role in a musical (seen in my profile photo) thank you so much for making this video. Schaff is actually my favorite RUclipsr, which is why it stung a bit to hear him reduce a character I love so much that way. She is indeed so much more than just having a memorable song (especially in the sequel) and an amazing example of a complex, flawed Disney heroine dealing with very real struggles.
Umm... Cinderella was far from entitled... As far as maturity I can't really say. But entitled she was not.
Also I like the interpretation another youtuber had, explaining that let it go is not Elsa being empowered but her basically shutting off everyone else around her for fear of rejection. It sounds triumphant but in reality it's really sad. It's the same energy as "I don't need anyone else in my life, I am just fine all on my own".
Cinderella is also another traumatized character, she lost her father at a young age and then was left in the care of a woman who despised her. She was forced to become a slave to her stepmother and stepsisters for most of her life. She was forced into isolation in her own home by her stepmother by making her sleep in the attic and was only allowed to come out to do all of the house work for the entire day. Even with that Cinderella tried to keep a positive attitude. Cinderella got a little glimmer of hope when her stepmother made her think that she had a chance to go to the ball. She didn’t see it as a chance to snag the prince, but as a chance to have a night off and have fun. But when she did all the requirements she had to fulfill to go to the ball, she was not allowed to go, but instead her stepmother allowed her stepsisters to physically attack her and destroy her dress. That causes Cinderella to break because in spite of trying to keep a positive attitude, she still receives abuse at the hands of the people who should be treating her better. That is why the fairy godmother decided that moment to make herself be known to Cinderella, because that was when Cinderella started to feel like everything was hopeless for her.
Cinderella is definitely mature. Her step family deserved a beat down for all the abuse they inflicted on her. And yet Cinderella always responds with kindness and doesn't let them get her down. She's very powerful and is a good embodiment of "turn the other cheek".
Schaff’s big problem, even though his criticisms are usually pretty good, is the fact that his lack of experience (i.e. lack of experience with trauma, different cultures, and perspectives) cause him to not enjoy good films that have a lot to offer and dismiss them as forgettable or lackluster, like Turning Red and Onward. He even missed the point of Elsa’s character arc because of his lack of experience, understanding, or even sympathy for abuse and trauma (as well as abuse and trauma victims). He can’t relate to the character, thus he doesn’t really make an attempt to try and understand her and just looks at her actions on the surface. (Not to mention how he seems to confuse having a low-key, subtle personality - like Elsa's - with having no personality at all.) I noticed this when I watched his reviews of Encanto and Turning Red. Why do you think he didn’t have investment in Cinderella’s story or character? Because he has no experience with abuse. It really hurts him as a critic, in my opinion.
I think schaff is a good critic (at least compared to Doug walker and mr enter, but he does make mistakes here and there like this video. I guess he doesn't know that being sheltered throughout your whole childhood without anyone to confide to DOES something to a person's brain. Elsa and Anna only did stupid shit because they grew up all messed up and thus don't know how to properly socialize to other people, not even EACH OTHER. It's a pretty glaring mistake I've seen him make
@@littlemeow124 Mr Enter is better than Scaff at least the current Mr Enter
That's because he goes deeper than Scaff, can control his biases better or at least aknowledges their existence, and isn't a trend chanser/afraid to be contrarian
To see why Enter is better all you have to do is compare his review of treasure planet with Scaff's half assed assesment
@@ΑΡΙΣΤΟΤΕΛΗΣΛΑΧΑΝΟΠΟΥΛΟΣ I wouldn't say it like that. I mean mrenter now has improved a bit from his 2010s days, but he still makes more mistakes than schaff does. Just look at his turning red review where he thought the film needs a 9/11 reference since it's set in the 2000s, which is pretty stupid since it's about a girl who turns into a red panda and thus clearly isn't meant to be realistic. There's also his nick-o-rama reviews which I felt was kinda rushed and was biased towards the 90s nicktoons and he was unfairly critical of the 2000s nicktoons
@@littlemeow124 Yeah he himself admitted nick o rama was a mistake though, and is planning on redoing it in 2023. He also apologized for that turning red take and his response to criticism.
I don't think Schaff has ever admitted bad criticism or bias.
@@ΑΡΙΣΤΟΤΕΛΗΣΛΑΧΑΝΟΠΟΥΛΟΣ Isn't John mentally ill and did shady actions before, like insulting people and whatever AniMat said in his podcast?
Yeah !! Finally someone who shares my same vision, Elsa's arc in the first frozen is about trauma and keeping in mind that is essential to understand it.
"The only one I can think of that matches that level of maturity is Tiana"
The DISRESPECT towards Mulan smh
It honestly kind of feels like Schaffrillas doesn't understand different responses to trauma because he never had to deal with this kind of trauma.
I really identify with Elsa personally because my sister and I grew up in an emotionally abusive household and I took up the mantle of the perfectionist and protection oriented older sibling for much of our life. I still have this overwhelming fear of failure and distance myself from others to avoid conflict because of the trauma my family caused me.
Elsa is a perfect representation of my personal trauma and fears, while also mirroring my love for my sister.
I think Schaffrillas veers toward Anna because he can't identify with or understand Elsas trauma response and Anna is the perceived "more charismatic" one of the two. It kind of seems that quieter and more demure traits are often overlooked, which is actually a form of sexism in many ways. We saw the same thing with the hate for the 1950s Cinderella as well.
LOVED THIS. "Elsa is a perfect representation of my personal trauma and fears, while also mirroring my love for my sister." I'm right there with you. about to write my own comment :)
Honestly I see a lot of myself in Elsa. I've got probably one of the most serious case of ptsd. I grew up being heavily abused in every way possible. But that actually wasn't even the worst to happen to me. I was hit by a tornado. During that night I was thrown around, crushed and buried alive. During that period I was down in a pitch black hole, filling up with water, unable to move or feel my legs, unsure if help was even coming for over 3 hours. I "survived" with a broken spine that left me in crippling pain with serious nerve damage to my right side. I had to relearn to walk, and beat the odds on never walking again. But my pain is so bad that the only way I can function is through the constant use of high end pain killers. Fentanyl to be exact. Which reduces my pain by about 25% total.
I don't sleep much at all because when the entire tornado kicked off, I had been sleeping. And because my injury is only ever going to get worse, and the treatment less and less effective with absolutely no hope of improvement, but a guarantee of it getting worse, I know I'm going to end up dead within 2 decades. Either the pain med's will destroy my body and my organs through long term use. Or eventually the pain will get too bad, and I'll end up taking my own life. These are the only two ways this ends for me. I figure I have about two decades at the absolute max before things take a drastic and sharp turn into the unmanageable territory. Every day I have to fight myself to get up, and to continue to fight. My body is literally a torture device I am unable to escape. No, pot won't and doesn't help me. No, there's really no stronger pain killers that I can get that'll help. And no, upping the dose isn't really a viable solution as I'm already taking a high dose of one of the strongest pain meds, and it only does a quarter of my pain on my best days, and often falls far short of that. There is no fixing me, there is no way things improve.
So knowing I'm already a dead man walking, I isolate myself. I keep everyone at an arms length. I avoid dealing with people. I can't sleep right, it isn't uncommon for me to be up for 72 hours, sleep for 3-4, than do another 72. I also don't really have any goals or anything. There's really no point to having goals or dreams, I'm already dead. Kinda seems pointless to bother when you know your life is already over before it even had a chance to start. I was 17 when I got handed my death sentence. And for the last 6-7 years I've already been fighting. And I'm just worn out. I'm tired. So tired of it all. I don't remember what its like to not be in pain anymore. And the impact on my life has been total, even in ways people might not expect. So I actually do the same thing Elsa does in a way. Since I already know I'm dead, letting people close is just setting them up to be in pain when I finally take my own life. No one really has the right to ask me to continue to suffer pointlessly. So its best to just keep my distance, and avoid letting anyone near me. For their own good, as well as my own. My death ride is something I have to do by myself.
@@NeiasaurusCreations so how's life? been a month figured I'd ask.
had a similar thing except I broke my back while walking to work (color blind f150 nothing to wright home about). if I did my math correctly your around 3 years older than me and I guess I'd just ask since I had a similar thing happen and also to say yeah maybe you only have 2 more decades but don't waist them go have fun travel see the world or at least the rest of the USA wich I assume your from. sorry if it's much but hay I'm not one to not say somthing when someone is hurting.
"Muh sExiSm"
Or maybe he just didn't like the character, because its his opinion, I'm all for critiquing opinions but at the end of the day your interpretation of the character is not superior to his and vice versa, him not liking Elsa is not because he "doesn't get her" it's simply because he doesn't connect with her in the same way you do. Also trying to label Schaffrillas as sexist because he doesn't like something you do is not cool.
When I watched Shaffrilas video for the first time I completely agreed with him. However I rewatched Frozen a week ago and was surprised by how much I adored Elsa's character this time around and completely changed my mind about her. I feel like I was finally able to understand her and I'm glad to find a video that summarises how I view her character now and why I appreciate Elsa so much after revisiting the movie!
Elsa is a flat out abuse victim, of course she's making terrible judgements and is mean sometimes. That's what happens. Abuse doesn't make pretty things.
exactly. this stuff happens in real life. that's why i love Elsa and why it hurts so bad to see Schaff shitting all over her. like dude where's your awareness man??
The problem is her struggles are never explicitly stated. If her trauma really was capitalized on, her character would seem less bland to me
@@whitneyg3141 does it have to be explicit I mean I think it's pretty freaking obvious
But the issue is she did not have a personality.
But then they glorify the parents in the second film.
Shiny Productions sounds to me like another victim of Elsa's commercialization. That's all he sees in her, a commercial, because that's what Disney's marketing team tells him she is, and it's fucked up. Why are we not raising more eyebrows at Disney pushing catchy songs glamorizing the lowest point of a character's life in their marketing, which misses the point of the movie entirely? DISNEY ITSELF is the reason people misinterprete these movies.
In all fairness, while Let It Go wasn’t what Elsa should’ve done in that situation, it was good that she was finally experimenting with her powers and having fun. And in a completely different movie, those same lyrics might’ve been a plot point that was fully positive, which is why so many people like it for the song itself and not just it’s place in the narrative. And complaining that Disney only markets the superficial parts of her character is stupid because that’s what they do with all their princesses. But Elsa got so popular that those superficial parts are all some people see
I honestly think Shaff’s problem is more with Let It Go than Elsa herself
No not really
As someone who has adhd atusim and anxiety i really related to elsa as a kid because I was afraid of hurting people with my meltdowns (they used to be violent when I was a kid not so much now. Now they are just me crying and screaming. And stomping the floor) just like how elsa was afraid of hurting people with her ice powers
Same here. I have autism and I highly mask until I enter my twenty
I hate it when people see reclusive personalities and say "they don't have any personality at all" its honestly so insulting to reclusive introverts like myself.
Real. I’m also a very reclusive introvert, mainly because of me masking my neurodivergence. But, I’m often told that I’m a blank slate or that I’m robotic simply because I’m not extroverted and I’m not an open book, and it annoys me to no end
You and me both
Now that I think about it the criticism that a female character is better because they're quirky, fun, bubbly, and naive comes across like it stemming from the notion that women are better when they are constantly happy and even acting like children. Also, this criticism on Elsa ignores trauma victims who become more reserved instead of projecting their trauma outward like how characters written to be villains do.
Lowkey never understood why he liked Moana so much. And him saying moana was better than coco was so outlandish to me, since i was trying hard not to fall asleep during it.
@@killme5630Agree. Seems like a bit of a dweeb. Don’t get me wrong I really liked Frozen when it came out in the middle of the “Let it Go” hype taking over the world, but I was also 9 at the time. He’s 25, not exactly the target demographic for animated musicals.
@@xenomorphbiologist-xx1214 yea as much as I love the guy, I could never agree with some of his takes. Like yeah the story is "whole" or "perfect" but have you ever considered that it is boring??
I get the depression comparison. Depression, self-fear, and self-hatred go hand in hand. Ironically, love actually is a good solution to it; I say this ironically because Disney’s idea of love is hella dumb. I did not learn shit watching Frozen; I only realized in retrospect, after dealing with some of my issues, that Frozen kinda sorta but not really pays lip service to Self-fear recovery, but shallowly so to the degree that it was trite and incomplete when I needed it most. I get the comparison to Depression because, in my opinion, a lot of people’s depression is actually an expression of underlying self-hatred/fear; hence the conflation in pop culture.
I find it funny how literally every time schaffrilas says “can you name one ___ from this movie?” I can always name it, no struggle
I despise this argument, because my memory is SLIGHTLY better than an unrefrigerated eggplants. So, no I can't name one thing from that movie. Nor can I name one thing from YOUR movie. Does that make it bad?
SpiderMan and Elsa for life
Hey look a robot
Nice
Wtf. Spider man is a way way way better character then the stupid elsa
Two extremely overrated things.
Two things that is not a good idea to blend together. It's cursed.
I find Elsa to be a very real example of childhood abuse and how two kids can be completely different. One who is afraid of repeating the cycle and being a "monster" to their spouse and children and the other wanting to start a family ASAP because they want to feel loved and accepted.
I saw the video he mentioned...I analyzed Elsa for almost 5 years, because the vision scene with Pabbie the troll made me question what is the more dominant factor behind her actions- the fear of hurting others, or the fear of others persecuting her after seeing what she can do. In the end, while she has both fears, it's her fear of hurting others who is the more dominant one, and while her fear of persecution is humane and understandable, I'm still glad that her main motivation is protecting others. A part of the reason as to why I put so much time into this study is because never before have I encountered such a selfless and tragic character. Elsa is the kind of character that makes you WANT to see her get a happy ending (which is partially why I absolutley DESPISE Hans), and throughout the movie, not only is she shows again and again her selflessness, even after Let It Go, but the messages that I took from her, of letting go of the fear of what others will think about your uniqueness in order to have more relieving life, and that embracing your uniqueness will allow you to achieve wonderous things, are messages that I think every child should be taught. So, when a video of the kind that 'shiny productions' is being made, with the impression that he hadn't even saw the movie, but rather only heard rumors about it from others, it really pisses me off, as it ignores so much of who Elsa is, and what she has accomplished. Words can't describe how happy I am to have reviewers like Shady Doorags, who value Elsa for who she is :)
Shady doesn't brew the tea, but DAMN does he know how to serve it👏
I love both channels, but I agree more with this vid
I think both of you have misrepresented Ariel in this video. Ariel is not boy crazy or only into her crush on Erick and she's not a brat. King Trident is very oppressive and over protective of her as she longs for her freedom. He also distrusts her and doesn't give her the proper chance to gain that trust back which she resents him for. She has an entire song about how she wishes more than anything to be human because she conflates being human on the surface away from her father's shadow with freedom itself and self expression. She has an entire collection of human artifacts that she's personally hunted down for who knows how long which she has to keep hidden away in a cavern because her father just didn't understand her personal interests and hobbies outside of maybe music. Erick was just the first human (and first human male) she ever met and thus took advantage of the situation to become human herself to gain her freedom. If Ariel was this "brat" you claim her to be, then why did King Trident have an arc? He came to realize that he was wrong in how much he distrusted his daughter and undermined her capabilities. If Ariel was just a brat, then Trident shouldn't have changed his mind and he would've just been right. Ariel also has an arc where she realizes the real dangers that exist in the world and that her father was right in some ways, that's how they ultimately reconcile. This may be a weird thing to focus on, but I'm so tired of all the bad Ariel rep out there lol
I love this video. I don't even have words because I agree with everything. I see that if a person relates more to a character like Anna, they are blind to Elsa's emotions and suffering. And those who relate more to Elsa may think too much that Anna is rude and invasive. It's why I'm kinda grateful for now seeing both sides of the story from those two videos.
Not sure if you mentioned, but Elsa clearly has PTSD from harming Elsa. A hit in the head was mere INCHES from her heart when they were kids. She's definitely suffering from it throughout most of the movie.
Yes, I too remember the scene where Elsa self harmed.
Thank you SO MUCH for this video. Really. I saw Schaffrillas video and i too got salty. I couldn't believe what i was hearing half of the time, so i thank you for saying everything that crossed my mind, and more. Elsa is a really good character in my opinion, even if the movie isn't perfect, and the way they show how trauma can affect someone, and their relationships, are really well done. Can't believe that's so hard to see in a movie that makes it so explicit.
Yeah, I normally like Schafrillas, but it didn't seem like he understood Elsa at all. It bugged me a lot, especially considering how well thought his critiques usually are. Also, I'm glad he responded to this video gracefully.
Your wrong but ok
@E . A lol It's been 6 months your a little too late too respond 😅.
@E . A but good try
@E . A its ok too respond too a comment but its been 6 months so your a little too late too the party sorry 😞 😔
@E . A but I like the effort 👌
You know what, you’re right! I was ready to agree with Shiny’s video, but you’ve changed my mind. Thanks, Shady.
therealCrazyJake I had to go and dislike that video after seeing this video, sorry Elsa. Lol
3:11 *dresses up like Elsa* YOU WANNA COME OVER HERE AND SAY THAT TO MY MASCULIN FACE? YOU CHUMP! 😂😂😂
4:09 Schafrillas: Take a look at Ariel, what's her personality? Shady: A brat? OHHHHH! 🔥🔥🔥(as much as I like Ariel, that was a good burn! And I'm clicking like regardless. XD)
AND OMG! Even I noticed that little lyric in "Fixer Upper" that you mentioned and used it to defend Elsa one time.
Also, Frozen is a film I will always defend (not just Elsa). I will try to accept that not everyone loves this film, but I do think it has a lot more than the non-fans and haters give it credit for.
In other words, THANK YOU!
3:09 Wow, that was VERY immature of him. I expected more from Schaffrillas than to outright tell people that their opinion is WRONG!
I think the reason shiny doesn't understand Elsa, and the reason most people don't understand Elsa, is cause they're (to my knowledge) nuerotypical and don't have traumas or other issues. As someone who's been through trauma, I can heavily relate to and understand Elsa as a character. He can't understand, and he shouldn't judge what he doesn't know
Hallie Here You don’t need to relate to her to think she’s a bad character. The problem is whether you understand her or not, her character arc is incomplete and her presence in the movie actively empowers her biggest faults: avoiding her responsibilities and running from the people who care about her. The movie makes this moment of her being irrational and reckless into something cool and something to be proud of, because she’s “free” now. If the movie actually had her realize these faults and choose to change then her character would be far better, but that never happens, she’s dragged into the resolution of the movie through no choice of her own and we never see her acknowledging that what she was doing wasn’t okay, so instead the main impression we get is not her developing as a character but instead the main impression is what we see in Let it Go, her triumphant power ballad about her worst decision, which makes people who watch the movie relate to that scene as being an empowering moment. Having an issue that is relatable to people who experience trauma which causes her to make a terrible decision would be okay if the movie showed her realizing her mistake and had her actually change, but that doesn’t happen, instead the movie makes that terrible decision into an empowering moment that has a huge affect on impressionable kids who learn from the movie that isolating yourself and hiding from your loved ones because you believe it is better for them is a good thing, which is just incredibly frustrating.
@@jordandwiggins1026 she didnt exactly abandon her kingdom either like alot of people like to portray her as doing. She didnt just leave and say fuck it. Her emotions got out of her control from stress causing her to unintentionally use her powers. And the first words out of anyones mouth was to label her as a sorceress, a danger, and to hunt her down. *she had to leave, otherwise she risked being killed on the spot/being tried as a witch and hung*
She wasnt ditching her responsibilities she was fleeing for her life and hiding for not just her safety, but what she thought was the safety of everyone else. Alone she thought she could be away from hurting others and free from being imprisoned. Letting everyone win. She didnt realize she set off a winter everywhere. She was trying to protect her people by staying away from them thus keeping her dangerous ice magic from them. She thought it was working. She was doing what she thought was right.
fireemberess There are a lot of factors that caused her to leave, I don’t want to sound like I’m putting all the blame on Elsa. The way her parents taught her to isolate herself was bad parenting and the way the townspeople overreacted was also clearly wrong as well. The best solution would to talk about her powers with people she trusted and to work with them to figure how to use her abilities safely. But my issue is not whether it was smart for Elsa to run away, the issue is that Let it Go specifically frames letting go of your responsibilities and isolating yourself from those who care about you as an empowering thing, which it is not. The problem is no-one is shown to really learn anything in the movie except Anna learning not to trust handsome strangers.
The movie could have been great if Elsa naturally realized on her own that what she was doing wasn’t the best decision, and had some impact on the climax because of that revelation, and if the townspeople naturally realized that they shouldn’t be quick to judge Elsa. Instead the climax of the movie revolves around stopping Hans after his sudden evil shift that makes little sense. Elsa has no resolution to her arc, the movie just drags her around for 1/3rd of the movie and ends with her suddenly having better control over her powers and the townspeople suddenly accepting her without any reason. Both movies try their hardest to make Elsa the main character but she never actually develops or has to make any meaningful decisions, only Anna does. It’s Anna who sacrifices herself for Elsa and Anna who decides to break the dam in the sequel, while Elsa is stuck having nothing to do during both climaxes except do cool ice things after everything is already over. It’s just poorly structured.
I personally love the way Frozen is set up right up until Let it Go, but then it suddenly decides to change Elsa from a scared character trying to keep everyone safe to someone proudly flaunting their powers and singing about how empowering it feels to isolate themself and have cool ice powers. This is framed as her developing as a character but it isn’t at all, it’s just her regressing but trying to convince herself that she’s happy instead of trying to convince everyone around her. Now this would be great IF the movie acknowledged that what she was doing wasn’t the right thing. Is it understandable behavior? Yes. Does that mean the movie should treat this decision as a big triumphant moment before ignoring her development and never having her decide anything or realize her mistake for the rest of the movie? No.
The reason for this is because the people making the movie realized that power anthems sell, and if they could stick a power anthem in their movie it didn’t matter if it worked well with the story. The money was more important than the character. If they actually acknowledged in the movie that Let it Go wasn’t empowering at all and was actually the equivalent of Hakuna Matata in Lion King, then less people would have seen it as a big empowering female moment and the movie would not have sold as well, so they basically just decided to forget Elsa’s development for the rest of the movie after that song. That’s my problem with Elsa’s character, that she could have been really good but the executives decided $$ trumped good writing
This is also why I don’t like The Greatest Showman but that’s a whole other conversation.
You are fucking great. This was so good.
I found Schaffrillas Productions's video first,and felt that Elsa is not bland like he said.
So i searched for another view point and found your video.
And you so beautifully showed your view.
Thank you.
This 👏🏻 channel 👏🏻 deserves 👏🏻 more👏🏻 subs 👏🏻 !!!
Also let it go does have a good message behind it. Its finally the moment when elsa can control her powers and symbolises her letting go of all the pain she had in her childhood through letting her true emotions out. Sure her isolating herself is wrong but finally not running from her powers is shown to be good and thats the celebration of the song - that she realises compressing hos she feels is wrong which in the real world i think is representing how ppl shouldnt bottle up how they feel and should instead 'let it go'
A lot of people miss the point of let it go as a song.
Not only is she letting go the possibility of hurting others or having them turn on her, but she’s also finally able to express her emotions with no one nearby to hurt in the process.
She was NEVER allowed to be that happy as a child as the emotions (which influence her power) would be too much to handle around others, especially as a child.
This is her letting go of her fear, and finally expressing her emotions and using her voice. Yes it’s to no one, but it’s like when you sing to yourself.
Sometimes you feel like your singing out to the universe and telling it what you are and there’s no stopping it. This is the first time since she was a child she could express true happiness and even control.
I've always said she's already fine as a character, the problem stems mostly because she was shoved to the sidelines in favor of comedic moments and attempts to try and lighten the mood of the film a bit because Elsa's problems aren't exactly what the Disney audience is used to when it comes to watching a Disney Princess.
Elsa's personality is fine, her arc is fine, it's just the movie barely focused on her while simultaneously making the film's conflict revolve around her, you can't just do that and not run into some problems when it comes to presenting her properly. It's probably why her character went over people like Schaffrillas Productions' heads.
It's like say if Beauty and the Beast barely focused on the Beast and made us watch Lumiere and Cogsworth getting in all sorts of goofy shenanigans with Belle. That's what I've always felt the film did with Elsa and is the reason why I believe she HAS to be the main focus in the sequel.
Sven and Olaf actually had more screentime than Elsa in the first film and that's kinda sad when you think about it...
This is why you should stray away from making duo protagonists. Elsa was the protagonist in terms of plot, but Anna was in terms of development, thus the story doesn't feel properly connected in that regard.
@@ShadyDoorags I think it would've worked better if they rearranged their priorities a bit. It felt like it wanted to do a bunch of different things at the same time and is why it felt like Elsa got robbed of the screentime she needed. I think it's more of a pacing issue rather than a writing issue.
It would've worked better if they toned down the comedy a little bit and focused on Elsa and Anna a bit more. Hans would've worked better as well if they focused on him too a bit. They got an interesting thing going for him where he said that his brothers ignored him, something Anna could relate to.
Basically I'm saying the movie would have been better if they took a page out of Beauty and the Beast's book and focus on the three characters that really got the plot moving. Because the more I think about it, Anna is basically Belle, Elsa is the Beast and Hans is Gaston, it all lines up perfectly, surprisingly enough.
@@ShadyDoorags the broadway musical actually tried to fix this problem a bit where Elsa actually had a song dedicated to her contemplating suicide if it meant stopping the winter. Only thing that held her back was she wasn't sure if it would actually stop it or if it would just make everything worse, since no one has ever said anything about what would happen to her powers if Elsa ended up dying...
@@ShadyDoorags Agreed.
@@noname144able To be straight up though , other than 'do you wanna build a snowman' and 'Let it go' , 70 percent of the movie is filled with 7 to 10 unnecessary and un-attractive songs , then we also have 2 most irritating and unnecessary characters Olaf and Kristoff that further destroys the screentime Elsa needs , not to even say anything about the trolls at last that wastes another 5 to 10 minutes of important screentime and animation
And so , pacing wasn't also the issue , the issue was the execution and writing itself. It kind of feels like a bunch of important scenes are cut off and replaced with all the unnecessary elements on purpose .......
But what you did said about Han's brothers neglecting him making him sort of nihilistic , and that just also relates to Anna , was actually a pretty good theory as compared to current Hans , comming out as a creepy half ass villain in the current one.
This is the definition of a Zoë Vs Zelda debate.
Lovely response! Was a bit worried cause I love both of you but I agree with both of you in different ways! I do agree that she isn't that bad, however I feel since she isn't the main focus that it weakend her arch. I hope in the sequel we get to see more of her side!
I agree. This is because Disney tried to do duo protagonists, which comes with all sorts of issues. Elsa should've been an antagonist, or at the very least, a deuteragonist.
@@ShadyDoorags cannot agree more! If they hoped for a sequel then I feel they could have left some of the information given in frozen. A lot of the missing information is very frustrating because it leaves open good opportunity for the sequel but means the first ends up feeling incomplete or rushed. Like Hans would be one aspect I would argue had failed the most based off the random twist that had no build up.
Would you say you look forward to the sequel and what it seems to be building up to? I'm interested to see how they progress the story from here.
@@ShadyDoorags In earlier drafts of the film, she was going to be an antagonist, if not a complete villain. Changing her to another protagonist is something that happened pretty late into the movie's development. They even had to reanimate a few scenes because of that change.
Run away from responsiblities. Funny cause she was being bothered or annoyed by other characters besides Anna and as soon as that guy said she was a MONSTER about everyone started fearing and giving disgust. Just watched the scene and like they kinda all drove her away being all annoying in her way. Didn’t that person who called a monster said sorcery in a negative way like she’s evil when she’s fragile and bothered earlier and then wanted the guards to capture her.
Elsa is hated for the same reason Shinji Ikari is hated.
Both have lack of confidence. This lack of confidence make both of them to cause disasters.
Even though Elsa overcome her fears, and became a kind of goddess.
People want characters to admire and project onto and idealise.
And that’s what we call a character arc
"You want to say that to my masculine face you chump" - shady wearing an elsa dress 2019
Wow this was argued and rebuttaled really well. Excellent job!! I really enjoyed this video. Thank you for representing Elsa's character!
“Tough tinky toenails”
...I’m stealing this 😂😂😂
Things are heating up in the Frozen fandom
11:28 'When the Weasletown guards-'
Me: WESELTON!
A certain weasel would disagree
Since Schaffrillas' Elsa video is missing from his channel, I re-uploaded it: ruclips.net/video/j6QHTXeF8wM/видео.html
12:26 sounds like the people who acknowledges that Cinderella was abused AS A CHILD and endured it up until the moment the movie really begins but still say that she just sat around wishing for a prince and how she went to the ball to see him.
No! She didn't. But that fucked up live action did.
I hate the "CINDERELLA JUST SAT THERE AND WAITED FOR A MAN TO SOLVE HER PROBLEMS" as if she didn't make the extremely brave decision to defy her abusive family just so she could be free for one night.
She didn't even go with the intention of becoming a princess, much like with the fairy godmother showing up, that was just fate rewarding her for being a good and brave person.
@@matti.8465 Right! The movie goes through so much trouble letting you know she's a prisoner there, she has learned to make it through it. And man that attitude, the sass, the contempt she shows when she is away from her family.
And when she needs to get out, to literally gain her freedom that's on the other side of the door she doesn't sit there (or spin like that damn dumb ass weak willed live action version) she begs, she cries, when the chance is near but out of reach she calls for Bruno. The Prince was just an opportunity that she liked and seized.
I think people give Elsa's parent a bit of and unfair judgement. For starters I don't think they had a copy of 10 steps to raise an emotionally balanced child w/ super powers in their library (Guess they should have hit up Beast for that one). They were in uncharted territory on what to do w/ only a cryptic line from the rock trolls as guidance. They also were responsible for not only Elsa upbringing but the Safety of Anna and Literally the lives of everyone else in the Kingdom as well. Elsa was traumatized by the event w/ Anna at the start of the movie and the isolation certainly left Elsa with some stunted emotional growth in certain areas but as shown she was quite calm, intelligent and stately during her coronation so they must have done some things pretty well. Not to mention people are doing some serious armchair quarterbacking and baseless what-iffing when they criticize their actions. Sure maybe telling everyone about Elsa would have led her to love and everything would have been great. Or maybe Elsa could have killed a villager or a staff member, or maybe the town would call her a witch and revolt and burn the castle down and kill everyone. Were they perfect parents? No. But they were clearly loving and were trying to do the best they could for everyone involved.
Don't you hate it when you're subscribed to two ppl that start disagreeing XD
PurpleZombie yes 😆
Have you ever heard the song "Monster" from the Broadway version of Frozen? It adds a whole new depth to Elsa's character and mentality and it's AMAZING
Having watched both Shiny's and Shady's video, I think there's a middle ground in the debate. Elsa isn't neither terrible, nor amazing.
I think Elsa's character and arc are much more interesting in concept than in execution. She has a strong setup explaining why she developed her irrational fear for her powers, and eventually develop a form of depression (yes, depression. Depression and fear are linked. The scene of her locking herself in a frozen room while crying is very symbolic of extreme sadness). A lot of Shiny's arguments about Elsa seem to come from him not understanding how fear can truly impair a person's capacity to make good choices. For a normal person it's obvious that she's making a wrong choice to isolate herself, but if you have been raised to have such mindset, it makes complete sense.
It's from "Let it go" that Elsa's portrayal wavers. Simba is a good comparison because both he and Elsa ran away from their opportunities, and both have a cheerful song afterwards. The difference is that Simba has scenes in which we see him torn with grieve and eventually face the fact that he has to face his fears. Elsa isn't allowed this, she seems to have perfect control of her powers, which is her literal conflict in the movie, and to be truly happy too (which is her metaphorical conflict). Also, if we're going to interpret Elsa's incapacity to control her powers as symbolism for controlling her emotions, as popular reading entails, then Elsa is a controversial character, because she constantly hurts Anna and others in the process. Sure, she didn't mean it, but would we excuse such behaviour if a man beats his wife or a friend because he doesn't know how to control his temper? In his relating to Elsa, Shady seems to pass unacceptable behaviour from Elsa. I wouldn't mind this much if Elsa had been allowed to learn her mistakes on her own, but instead, Elsa's arc came almost at the expense of Anna's safety. And yes, I know that's the point of the message "True love can thaw a frozen heart", but I don't think it's fair Anna had to almost die just so that Elsa would wake up. Isn't this what contemporary critics say about Belle's supposed abusive relationship with the Beast? That it isn't fair for a woman to be the one to correct a man (which is not the case in "Beauty and the Beast", before you reply to me about that)? Why does Anna have to be a scapegoat and sacrifice herself simply so that Elsa finally corrects her actions with a simple magic wave of her hands?
I'm probably reading too much into Elsa, and I don't want to be unfair because it's meant to be a faerie tale. I don't think Elsa is an abusive person overall because I can see where the creators where trying to take her, and I think the intended message that true love can connect people is lovely. I just think her arc is unbalanced.
My argument was not that Elsa's choices were okay, it was that, from her perspective, they made sense and that most people put in her shoes would've done the same thing.
Elsa is confronted with her actions a few times throughout the movie. When Anna comes to get Elsa, that is a confrontation. Anna is telling Elsa that her running away did not solve the problem, the fjord is still frozen. Anna is also telling Elsa the solution, she can literally come back and just unfreeze it. The problem is, Anna doesn't actually know that, she's just hopeful and naïve so Elsa doesn't believe her. The fact that she's right is just a coincidence. Thus Elsa shuts her out and makes the problem worse, freezing her sister's heart. Elsa tries to fix the problem by going back into "conceal, don't feel" mode, but it's too late and, again, makes things worse by making the blizzard worse. Every time Elsa shuts people out or runs away from them, things get worse. It's only at the end, where Anna demonstrates that by accepting love can Elsa overcome her powers that Elsa sees what she needs to do.
Technically yes, Elsa controlling her emotions is linked to her controlling her powers, but it's more about accepting love than it is about that. Elsa embracing her emotions allows her powers to activate, but it doesn't give her full control. Only through both emoting and through love can she have full control.
Anna dying is not just a consequence for herself. Throughout this movie, everything Elsa does is so Anna doesn't get hurt. Her character's goal is to keep her sister safe. Its through trying to avoid hurting Anna that Elsa winds up killing her. Anna getting frozen is also not just a consequence of Elsa's actions. Anna was wreckless in both how she approached her sister and whom she decided to trust. Anna approaching Elsa without considering how Elsa might feel about the situation, both in their castle and on the mountain, is what triggers Elsa's power. Anna helped to cause the blizzard, she helped in getting her own heart frozen and she helped in Hans deceiving her, even if she didn't mean to do any of those things.
I agree with you that Elsa's arc is unbalanced, mainly because the movie tried to do duo protagonists and that's difficult to pull off successfully. As a result, Elsa's character didn't get everything it needed in regards to the plot.
Its a meh movie. I enjoy Elsa and Anna because my siblings and I had a similar problem. I was the odd one out because of mental disabilities against to the "normal" sisters.
I was like Anna in excitement but had more in line with Elsa because of how my struggles were outside what my parents knew what to handle.
"magic that were never explained"
Frozen 2: allow me to introduce myself.
"Weaseltown guards.."? It's WESELTON!
I hope Schaffrillas makes a tasteful response.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Thank you very much defending my Queen in the right way! You and I should be her body guards
This is so good, I can't even deal right now.
I totally agree. Your points are valid and it's clear you put far more thought into the dynamic of the characters.
I would also point out that at that after 18:49 Anna interrupts Elsa and tells her that “actually we’re not, Arendelle is in deep deep deep deep snow” shattering that small since of security that Elsa had. She believed running away from Anna and all of Arendelle was safer, but when Anna breaks that small sliver of hope what happens? Oh yeah, Elsa spirals by using her powers AND HURTS ANNA, Elsa’s worst fear!
“What’s Ariel’s personality” “a brat” idk why but the way he said it made me laugh
My opinion of elsa has bottomed out a bit at this point after over saturation of her face and the sequel, but I think one of the reasons she’s so popular is because she was probably the first character many little kids saw struggling with self hatred and anxiety. At least at the time of watching, being a small child that hasn’t been diagnosed or treated, Elsa rang out as depicting the very traits I was bullied for and still being popular. I respect that about her as a character.
"Elsa has character flaws, that means she's poorly written, meh!"
- Schaffrillas basically
Shiney really focused on how naive,self-centered, and stubborn Anna and Ariel were like those are their best qualities 😅
Like it’s unfortunate that the chick with severe emotional trauma, anxiety and a kingdom to run didn’t have the time to moonlight as a manic pixie dream girl. Love all the Disney royals, but the thing I like the most about them is that they’re different.
Isn't it hypocritical to say Elsa had responsibilites and a more adult mentality - when the *first* choice she makes for herself is to run away from her responsibilities - her *second* choice was to become a hermit - and her *third* choice was to callously allow the blizzard SHE created rage across her Queendom? You make a good point that Elsa is not a rational person, and she has trauma, but she doesn't even try to bring the Blizzard under control, and it's clear if nothing is done, everyone will die.
I think a BIG part of why people don't "get" Elsa is because Elsa we see in Let it Go and on the Posters and Merch, is NOT the Elsa in like 90% of the movie. She's not this smug, badass, Dreamworks-smiling Disney Princess. She's traumatised, lonely, self-loathing Queen. You see her face on the posters or on the merch, and that's not who Elsa is. That's how marketing portrays her to sell their merch.
The thing is that she doesn't know HOW to stop the blizzard, up until the end of the movie. We clearly see her freak out in her castle as she's unable to think logically.
I agreed your defense. I'm not a Frozen fan but even I knew she has character. Now that I think about it, it makes so much sense of she has to "let it go." Once again, contextualization matters. Also I hoped you know Elsa isn't the very first Disney queen since they already established it before.
*Ignoring her beautiful looks aside, Elsa’s actions/motives/character is definitely “literally me”*
I COMPLETLEY agree with you!! I was shocked to how oblivious he was how bad his perspective his view was! I find her the most relatable character and literally the only reason why I liked frozen in the first place!
Elsa has that cautiousness and anxiety about losing control over her "power" which she needs to keep hidden (conceal, don't feel...) Until she learns to overcome it by being threatened to lose the very thing she was trying to protect all along - her sister
Which again is another thing I can relate to. I also have a secret that is beyond my control - a "hidden ice power" why don't you - and I know I can never tell anyone because if I do, they'd hate me. When I had opened up to people about my "ice power" - I was called a monster, sick, etc and called names and even told to kill myself. Do you know what that does to a person? It made me withdraw from society and retreat into my fantasy life more and more, thinking that isolation is what would make me happy. Just like with Elsa. That's why she is so relatable to me.
Plus she is one of the only single female characters in literally anything that I can relate to, so there's also that.
14:19 best part of the video in my opinion lmao. The emotion was so necessary
I love it when extroverts mesh well with Introverts. I love extroverts because they’re vulnerable, naive, and also energetic and friendly but I also love intros because they’re shy, friendly, and closed off
I don't mind frozen but in writing, I think it kinda bad , and over hyped
tangled is still better
Unpopular opinion: I didn't think Tangled was that great when I first saw it. I thought it was decent, but it was one of the few Disney movies where I knew about the story it was based on before seeing it, so I wasn't too pleased with the changes they made to the Rapunzel story. I was disappointed that Mother Gothel wasn't a witch, the male lead was a thief instead of a prince, and nobody ever said "Rapunzel, let down your hair!" But after realizing that Disney will almost always make changes to the stories they adapt and that not every telling of the story has to be the same, I appreciate it a little bit more.
@@IsabellaCataldo mother gothel did say that though, when she saw max in the woods and rushed back home she nervously calls for Rapunzel saying "Rapunzel, let down your hair"
Fan 342 YAY! I LOVE Tangled more too! It’s my favorite Disney Princess film!😊😍
@@IsabellaCataldo Casting a youth spell on yourself isn't being a witch?
@@IsabellaCataldo Actually, he is a prince and she might technically be a witch.
You know, I used to actually agree with Schaffrillas because I thought I had to, and although I liked Frozen, I wasn't like a huge fan of it or whatever, so i didn't care much about the franchise entirely. (unless being a jelsa lover counted it😅). But as I grow older and learn about myself as a person with the sense that I can have my own opinions that are different from others and that's okay, I realized that I kinda relate to Elsa as I'm also an introvert and an older sister with responsibilities. So, I'm glad I took a chance with this video.
Even after abdicating or leaving her role as Queen if Arendelle in Frozen 2 (or Fanfics, take your pic.) Queen Elsa is so amazing that she well earns the *title of Queen* over Princess. At the end of Frozen 2 (dispite it's faults plot-wise) Elsa has practically ascended to the status of a Goddess. So either way it is appropriate to address her as " Your *Majesty* ".
I actually agree with you on this. Yeah, Elsa did a lot of stupid shit during the film (practically everyone did, honestly), but she spent her childhood sheltered and fearing her own powers, with the only people who she can trust when talking about her powers dying at sea. Her thought process is likely messed up from all that trauma she's been through. Same with Anna, who I felt gets too much flack for falling in love with someone she just met when she had spent most of her childhood alone and without any understanding why
11:29
Shady: The Weaseltown-
Me: Wessleton.