the ladder in the second game was strange for me. couldn't u just net the stones and when he blocks the ko u atari the stones in the net and if he ataris ur stones u close ko thanks for answer
At 38:58 - I think that if black plays M9, and white ataris at T9 or Q9, black would be forced to retake the ko, and it would be a direct ko over the life of those 8 black stones. Say white made the same threat as in the game after black takes the ko - at S16, and black responds at S17. White retakes the ko, but now there are no local threats for black with the N8-O8 stones because they have two liberties, while the eight black stones only have one, so now black would have to find ko threats elsewhere. With the ladder variation, black gets many more local threats.
Hello dwyrin, I can beat amybot-ddk on ogs pretty consistently, and now I am really struggling against Spectral-10k. How about a video for your ddk's where you play Spectral-10k a couple times and highlight the incremental skills needed to beat this bot?
first tip: play humans. a lot ^^ playing bots that are programmed to lose (well, to play badly) will not help as much as playing vs humans: we play very differently. second tip: if yr playing bots: play the best one you can & get destroyed; you'll learn more if you look into how & why you lost than by beating very weak bots. third tip: trying to learn ways to beat a specific player or bot will yield less, over time, than relying on the basics -> try to focus on: direction of play, shape, sente & reading. (ofc all just my opinions, and will be irrelevant if you only *ever* want to beat spectral, but i'd be amazed if at least most of this wasn't part of a pretty standard set of ideas.)
@@sjs9698 Thanks for the input. My idea was to add tools to my toolbox incrementally by leveling up through stronger and stronger bots. It's not intuitive to me to try to learn by playing humans who suck at the game at my level of suckiness, but I will change my approach and endeavor to play humans. 👍
Uh... I feel like what I learned from this is that the Chinese fuseki is an invitation to very complicated fighting, followed by more fighting, followed by a little more fighting. What I thought was a building framework turns out to be, at least in these two vids, a pushing match where there's a lot of non-DDK level reading (or perhaps just shapes points I am not seeing?) Ultimately I feel like you've convinced me never to try this fuseki until I reach past 1dan.
@@JohnLewis-old The Chinese fuseki was invented specifically to get into fighty games, because that was what the Chinese were really good at. So... you pretty much hit the nail on the head - it invites lots of fighting.
@@JohnLewis-old 's definitely my experience of this opening (which i used a ton upto about 10kyu, along with san-ren-sei & just taking two 44s into approach. just all the B openings i knew) - in my experience with *any* sort of framework kyus will either ignore it entirely, seeming oblivious to moves that weren't attachments or immediate threats to kill a few stones... or invade like they weren't aware that jumping into pincers is risky, everywhere... games got complex, fast, i lost a ton of games due to bad shape, misreads & crazy fighting... won a few with ridiculous amounts of death, too. all this may sound unappealing but: i did learn a lot, i improved fairly quickly & i think it helped me realise how to use influence &c better, quite fast. along with batt's wonderful channels ofc ^^
44:34 is that chinise is more important thant the finising of the connecting of the two stones? Or it is just for cos you say it is about chinese fuseki?
At 14:29 you play that tesuji which is actually making things complicated because of the monkey connection. Instead you can simply draw out your stone, making the inside capture and the ladder miai. I think that ladder is more basic than the tesuji.
IMO it's misleading to say you're following proverbs without reading when you clearly did. There are many similar situations when double hane would be bad so why are you telling people to play it without reading? You should instead *read it* because it is proverb.
I hesitated cause it was strange to see him bang his head into my stone. But i was always going to double hane there. Either hes cut off or i got extra influence to use. If i was reading i would have hane on the inside to force atari and use it to do a clean separation and connect rather than leave behind bad aji with his counter atari.
@@dwyrin Yes actually, where Fuseki = set opening patterns. Just like the vast majority of Joseki aren't basic. The idea would be that learning joseki and fuseki before having a decent grasp of direction of play and shape is a waste of time - getting ahead in the opening doesn't matter if you play slow moves after or make bad shape and get destroyed when the fighting starts. My impression was that this "Basics" series was geared toward learning these principles. Of course you can play Low Chinese in a basics game. However, I don't think it's a valid topic or theme for a basics game to "try to play Chinese".
I'm afraid you are incorrect. Fuseki is direction of play, this is true. But since direction of play is basic, a fuseki is a good tool for practicing direction of play.
i like that feeling when i wake up and then i notice there is something new!
i love your content batts!!!
The timing of this video was almost too perfect.
Just missed the bus and then BAM new dwyrin video to keep me satisfied. :D
2:06 true, but there are also several joseki which involve bumping your head on opponent’s stones so it’s VERY confusing to a weakling like me!
the ladder in the second game was strange for me. couldn't u just net the stones and when he blocks the ko u atari the stones in the net and if he ataris ur stones u close ko thanks for answer
Roman Ger I was thinking the same
At 38:58 - I think that if black plays M9, and white ataris at T9 or Q9, black would be forced to retake the ko, and it would be a direct ko over the life of those 8 black stones. Say white made the same threat as in the game after black takes the ko - at S16, and black responds at S17. White retakes the ko, but now there are no local threats for black with the N8-O8 stones because they have two liberties, while the eight black stones only have one, so now black would have to find ko threats elsewhere. With the ladder variation, black gets many more local threats.
Hello dwyrin, I can beat amybot-ddk on ogs pretty consistently, and now I am really struggling against Spectral-10k. How about a video for your ddk's where you play Spectral-10k a couple times and highlight the incremental skills needed to beat this bot?
first tip: play humans. a lot ^^
playing bots that are programmed to lose (well, to play badly) will not help as much as playing vs humans: we play very differently.
second tip: if yr playing bots: play the best one you can & get destroyed; you'll learn more if you look into how & why you lost than by beating very weak bots.
third tip: trying to learn ways to beat a specific player or bot will yield less, over time, than relying on the basics -> try to focus on: direction of play, shape, sente & reading.
(ofc all just my opinions, and will be irrelevant if you only *ever* want to beat spectral, but i'd be amazed if at least most of this wasn't part of a pretty standard set of ideas.)
@@sjs9698 Thanks for the input. My idea was to add tools to my toolbox incrementally by leveling up through stronger and stronger bots. It's not intuitive to me to try to learn by playing humans who suck at the game at my level of suckiness, but I will change my approach and endeavor to play humans. 👍
Its go time, basics day
Its hard to focus on direction of play when they force you to fight every freaking move. Quite rude, really.
Uh... I feel like what I learned from this is that the Chinese fuseki is an invitation to very complicated fighting, followed by more fighting, followed by a little more fighting. What I thought was a building framework turns out to be, at least in these two vids, a pushing match where there's a lot of non-DDK level reading (or perhaps just shapes points I am not seeing?)
Ultimately I feel like you've convinced me never to try this fuseki until I reach past 1dan.
@@JohnLewis-old The Chinese fuseki was invented specifically to get into fighty games, because that was what the Chinese were really good at.
So... you pretty much hit the nail on the head - it invites lots of fighting.
@@JohnLewis-old 's definitely my experience of this opening (which i used a ton upto about 10kyu, along with san-ren-sei & just taking two 44s into approach. just all the B openings i knew) - in my experience with *any* sort of framework kyus will either ignore it entirely, seeming oblivious to moves that weren't attachments or immediate threats to kill a few stones... or invade like they weren't aware that jumping into pincers is risky, everywhere...
games got complex, fast, i lost a ton of games due to bad shape, misreads & crazy fighting... won a few with ridiculous amounts of death, too.
all this may sound unappealing but: i did learn a lot, i improved fairly quickly & i think it helped me realise how to use influence &c better, quite fast.
along with batt's wonderful channels ofc ^^
44:34 is that chinise is more important thant the finising of the connecting of the two stones? Or it is just for cos you say it is about chinese fuseki?
At 14:29 you play that tesuji which is actually making things complicated because of the monkey connection. Instead you can simply draw out your stone, making the inside capture and the ladder miai. I think that ladder is more basic than the tesuji.
+
5:52 Isn't extending to H16 first and then have choice between capture and laddering G15 better there?
Did he moan because of his opponents move at 37:45 ?
Yeah his move didnt do much so it was odd to see. We were in a ko and he tossed away a threat
IMO it's misleading to say you're following proverbs without reading when you clearly did. There are many similar situations when double hane would be bad so why are you telling people to play it without reading? You should instead *read it* because it is proverb.
I hesitated cause it was strange to see him bang his head into my stone. But i was always going to double hane there. Either hes cut off or i got extra influence to use. If i was reading i would have hane on the inside to force atari and use it to do a clean separation and connect rather than leave behind bad aji with his counter atari.
Fuseki is not basic...
Are you being serious?
@@dwyrin Yes actually, where Fuseki = set opening patterns. Just like the vast majority of Joseki aren't basic.
The idea would be that learning joseki and fuseki before having a decent grasp of direction of play and shape is a waste of time - getting ahead in the opening doesn't matter if you play slow moves after or make bad shape and get destroyed when the fighting starts. My impression was that this "Basics" series was geared toward learning these principles.
Of course you can play Low Chinese in a basics game. However, I don't think it's a valid topic or theme for a basics game to "try to play Chinese".
I'm afraid you are incorrect. Fuseki is direction of play, this is true. But since direction of play is basic, a fuseki is a good tool for practicing direction of play.
@@dwyrin It seems to me that by the same argument all Joseki are basic (and pretty much everything else too). Of course this discussion is pointless.