Love ya bud. You display great honesty. Heather right or wrong. You record you daily actions that display . You're so confident about being okay with being incorrect and okay to say ... I've learned sense then. Love ya bro , your actions truly echo in this world's ether
@@cptKamina Not really, he rattled off a bunch of irrelevant historical facts and malded over inequalities in capitalism. I'm a fan of Dr. Wolff, I've seen him do much better than he did here. It seemed like he was phoning it in and not taking it seriously. I would actually say Destiny won the debate because in his opening statement, he gave Dr. Wolff the 5 points he needed to hit to pull Destiny to his position and Dr. Wolff talked around them instead of directly answering them.
Now now, Wolfe-Man _can_ define Socialism. Socialism is like kittens and rainbows and Capitalism is its opposite! It's men in top-hats wearing monocles who send orphans up chimneys to clean them. Of course he can't just come out and give you his definitions. Because if he did that, strangers in utube comments would make fun of him.
“What is your definition of socialism?” Richard: “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way - in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only...”
This is what it looks like when someone used to academic style debates comes to debate on RUclips. It's the equivalent to someone practiced in fencing being tossed into a knife fight behind a Denny's. The "long winded" explanations that Wolff gives are very common in more traditionally structured academic debates and no one who has watched them would be unfamiliar with this. It's very common for rebuttals and counter-rebuttals to go on for 10, 15, or 20 minutes.
Normally that happens because they have a lot to say. In this case, Wolff made 10 minute monologues to address points that Destiny had not made or to defend forms of socialism that Wolff doesn't actually advocate for. If you're going to talk for a long time, the conversation should probably be moved forwards and not just shifted across onto a different route.
3 years later and I still can’t get over how stupid the point about the USSR and China’s economic growth is. Of course 2 countries with massive populations that rapidly industrialize (a century later than every western country) will have huge economic growth. Trying to attribute that so socialism without demonstrating ANY causal link is brain dead at best and deceitful at worst. A PHD should definitely know better.
Not only should he know better about that, he is just straight up lying about the USSR being the fastest growing. He pulled this crap against an actual economist in a debate months prior and got corrected with direct citations to the literature by David Friedman. Wolff is lying and he knows he is lying.
There has been economic growth everywhere. But the relative growth in prosperity of a Soviet slave worker remained at poverty levels if compared to Capitalist economies such as Australia, the US, Canada, New Zealand, Germany, Japan, etc.
@@soulcapitalist6204 Wolff-Man is a Phd in economist, and has been a so called "economist" for like 300 years, and is yet to publish a single paper in a credible economics journals for his peers, as far as I've been able to determine. This is what other economists describe as "a crank". If he didn't have a government job, he'd struggle to qualify for order taking at McDonald's.
Destiny: Uh, what is your definition of socialism? Wolff: *It was a warm spring night in Ancient Greece when Aristotle and Socrates argued about free markets...*
Hahaha dude I usually play vids on 1.5x speed. I couldn’t tell it was already on when I hit play and was dumbfounded when I went to change it. Destiny’s mind is probably like a hamster on a wheel during Wolff’s parts. Not necessarily worse or better, but it definitely demonstrated how used to Destiny’s 🐹🎡 brain I’ve gotten.
@@ash_tray_6I love how Wolf gives these vicious looks into the camera like he wants to stab destiny and Destiny is looking to the side probably fact checking and writing notes completely unemotionally 😂 Wolff is so clearly a hateful man making arguments purely from an emotional place. And I listened to an interview from him and it’s literally just daddy issues, says his dad never paid attention to him unless he was preaching about socialism 😂 gotta get dads approval and destroy those evil capitalists (Nevermind he’s a business owner)
@@biologicalstatistics3320 just not autistic. Do you think you need a degree to know men with neglectful fathers are looking for their approval? Or when someone’s scowling and raising their voice they’re angry with you? Nice try though.
Mrs. Wolff: “Dear, what did you want for dinner?” Professor wolff: “well, there are many things that I want and I will explain each one but before I do let me describe what I do not want!”
@@simonjaz1279 i know for a fact that u watched the first 10 minutes and stopped. it's called deductive reasoning to specify your stance. maybe learn the difference between deductive and inductive reasoning before making such quippy one liners.
@@kyriacosomerou2072 it's called deductive reasoning to specify your stance. maybe learn the difference between deductive and inductive reasoning before making such quippy one liners.
Hi, a swede here. The Social Democrats that's in our government are not, nor do they call themselves, socialists. It's a left-center liberal party. They advocate free market capitalism with a social safety net and haven't been socialists (or called themselves so) for like 50 years or so.
no that argument is not credible because richard wolff just decided to ignore it and go on another 8 minute monologue without addressing anything actually asked of him
Same here for his Portuguese example. We've had a dictator up until our 70's revolution, and the parties that spawned out of it HAD to distance themselves from anything right-wing for obvious practical reasons, thus all the red iconography and "socialist"/"communist" in their names. Sure it's still a very leftist country to this day, considering millenial's parents including my own experienced Salazar, but we're far away from what any normal person would call a commie country. We're mostly just incompetent and corrupt, akin to the rest of southern EU and S.America, regardless of whether they veer right or left.
To be honest I feel like I understood most of what wolff said for the first half but by the end of the debate his monologues would get so long winded I just lost interest in hearing him out.
@@evolution__snow6784 Problem is that Destiny speaks way faster, so I can't adjust the speed to my ideal, one of them is too fast or the other is too slow.
@@e1dsd720 working as a closer for a grocery store you would be surprised how many old people think that their life story, political opinions and complaints about society matter to a dude stocking milk at 10 at night.
Well, here’s the thing. His responses are flawed, and it becomes obvious already from every outset: He talks a lot, and he talks fast, but the flawed position which he’s basing all his subsequent arguments (or identity-politics/aiming for a «win»/strengthening his prepared established position) makes all those sentences fall short even from very minimal scrutiny. The devil is in the details. This is why Wolff keeps interrupting. Because Destiny is wrong, again and again, on very fundamental intricacies and nuances that form his position, and even more so, how he «perceives» Wolff’s position; in fact twisting it. I read somewhere in the comments that this video proves a PhD is worth nothing more than toilet paper. On the contrary, it proves and demonstrates the importance of actually knowing what you’re talking about BEFORE you’re aiming for a wordly «win». You need to read, and read a lot. Going into the nuances and complexities and from THERE form a generalized position. This takes massive amounts of concentration on arguments over thousands of pages. Destiny, in comparison with Wolff, seems to have skim-read a «communism 101» , a simplistic «10 points defining socialism» anthology, or along with Wikipedia summaries, second hand interpretations of Marx, as a way to strengthen is intuitive initial position. This is why he wants a simple minded «definition» of socialism from Wolff, to old onto before digging himself back in the trench, aiming for a dumbed down «win» or «destroyal» for everyone to see on RUclips.
@@chriswambraw 13 or so sentences and you managed to say absolutely nothing. That's impressive to say the least. Where does it suggest I agreed with Destiny's takes or arguments? As it stands I don't for the most part, but the word salad you have posted here takes the cake. This absolutely warrants a screenshot for use in my classes as "S" tier rhetoric with no substance. Can you substantiate anything you claim, just one thing? like; "his responses are flawed..." Name a flawed response. That should be easy as "it becomes obvious already from every outset", then name a single flawed outset, or something.
Perhaps if Destiny actually listened instead of just waiting for his turn to attack something, a consensus would have been reached at the 36 minute mark. It seems that while Wolff spoke, Destiny was busy mouse clicking. What a jackass!
@@need-to-know- I used to think the same way as you about Destiny. Out of curiosity, could you explain to me what someone is doing when they take notes of what you are saying?
And this guy is a an economic professor? Thats embarrassing. His classes must take days to finish lmao. His best possible definition of “socialism” is “whatever you can critique of socialism is actually capitalism”
I've spent roughly 60 hours listening to Wolff debate and lecture. I rarely hear him offer a coherent answer without moralizing, belittling, or lecturing. I do not trust him, it seems to me that he relies on "I've taught this stuff for many years and you just don't understand enough to see I'm correct."
Interesting. I’ve only seen Wolff when he was on the Lex Fridman podcast, and ya I felt like he would dodge the most important questions thrown at him.
@@kylehorvath9295 Yes I believe so, but that’s just regulation and a social safety net under Capitalism (I.e. a private property-based market economy). It still falls under the capitalist umbrella, which is why Destiny was confused with Wolff’s definition.
Not really... Wolff isn't very clear. Social democracy was a concept coined by Marxists in the late 1800s, it was intended to be a transitional system from capitalism to socialism. Marxists argued that the best way to transition to socialism is by first decommodifying inelastic markets (like health care and education), and redistributing wealth to disenfranchised proletarians (aka welfare state). In the end capitalists held power and co-opted social democracy as another form of neo-liberal capitalism. Which means... many social democrats today are not actually socialists, because they don't subscribe to social democracy in it's original form, they are just capitalists who believe that social democracy has already achieved it's goals. There are socialists in Europe who are still abiding by the original definition of social democracy, but at this stage they are a small minority. So in other words... social democrats who push for welfare states for the sake of capitalism are not socialists, social democrats who push for a welfare state for the sake of socialism are socialists. Destiny is the former, not the latter.
Dr wolfe speaks like a high school paper. "What is different between socialism and capitalism?" "In the early 1900s, socialism began...." just answer the question and discuss what you're interested in defending, destiny is arguing against 18 definitions of socialism"
This debate would have been a lot more interesting if it focused less on "what qualifies as socialism" and more on "what policies do you advocate for that I don't, and why?"
Socialists and communists never like to talk about pragmatic boots on the ground actions and only talk about semantics and fantastical theories not based on reality. If one socialist named policies, actions and how they would do it as efficiently as possible they might actually get somewhere.
@@nelsonman1231 the problem was that everytime wolff said a policy destiny countered with the that those policies could be implimented under capitalism. So therefore no one or two or three policies would even be enough because destiny would counter with "well thats not unique to capitalism" This is because the definition of capitalism and sociism are sort of arbitrary and shifting. Capitalism of a 150 years ago is very different than the capitalism now likewise so is the articulation of socialism . Destiny is playing a cheap debate technique which I think works well with more narrowly defined arguments but with these sort of arguments it's kind of stupid.
I’ve watched for 33 minutes and destiny might have only spoken for less than 5 minutes. It’s just Richard rambling about the history of socialism and market economies at a word per minute. How did a debate about socialism turn into a discussion of Greek philosophers? Fucking hell.
Richard Wolff has to be one of the most unlikeable speakers I've ever heard. He just SOUNDS hateful. And his facial features do him no help either. Not to mention he frequently talks down to the people he's discussing/debating with. And I'm not even a Destiny fan, just came here to see what this Wolff guy was about. I think I can dismiss him now.
The oldest trick in the socialist playbook: offer a wishy-washy definition so your opponents can never pin you down and find out what you're really talking about is absolute totalitarian dictatorship with you sitting pretty at the top of the pyramid.
@@Jeff-vn1xz Yeah but in the specific definition of capitalism as workers managing their own land, labour and capital and selling it through the free markets versus socialism where the land, labour and capital is managed by the collective it's clear that the Scandinavian model is capitalistic. Scandinavia's robust safety nets cannot exist without the state levying a tax on the free market system which underpins the entire safety net. Since that underpinning system is capitalist, it would follow the social safety nets built ontop of said system are capitalist as well and not socialist.
@@bdr689 But where's the dividing line? People think the Nazi's weren't socialists because there was an illusion of private ownership. But do you own it if you don't control it? Is state capitalism not a contradiction in terms? How many regulations, or how much tax is the limit on control that defines it as capitalism or socialism?
@@Jeff-vn1xz God, what a stupid statement. Illusion of private ownership under the Nazis? lmao. I never understood why people with absolutely no understanding of history bother to make such statements.
Maybe a new editing standard would be in order, implementing exactly that rule for all videos? :D Slowing and speeding up certain parts so all are talking at reasonable speed.
Download video speed controller if you're using chrome and just press 'd' to speed up and 's' to slow down. It's crazy useful for uni lectures/youtube videos and basically any other video. You can also speed up any video to winstiny speeds of +30x
13:55 "不管黑猫白猫，能捉到老鼠就是好猫" Deng Xiaoping's quote is very telling here. Wolff says china's economic development is a testament to the merit of socialism. Under Mao China experienced the worst economy perhaps ever, many millions died. After Mao's death in the 70s it allowed for the freedom to question the direction of the country. In the 80s Deng Xiaoping transitioned to an authoritarian market-capitalism mix saying as quoted earlier, "No matter if the cat is black or the cat is white, so long as it catches the mouse it is a good cat." Communism or capitalism, we do not care as long as it works. This was a subtle way of admitting the failure of the communist approach while maintaining authority and pivoting to new ideas. Starting in the 90s and the 2000s we see remarkable GDP growth. This further progresses in the 2010s, though it is generally considered to be malinvestment, speculative, and rife with false reporting of GDP figures to meet unrealistic quotas. I paused at that point, really bugged me that he was misattributing socialism to the merit deserved by free markets.
Wolff's condescending attitude was very annoying, especially when his arguments rarely addressed Destiny's points nor had more substance than merely a pseudo history lesson.
That is his entire shtick. He just talks down to people with a bunch of bullshit and has his cultists make excuses when he gets caught lying: “you just didn’t understand him” every time.
Dr. Wolff doesn’t stand for anything but being critical of capitalism. He doesn’t realize he’s simply a populist(the people over the elite). He’s been using the socialist label for his adult life because of the iconoclastic power behind it.
@@ARKHAM367 seriously, these libs didn't even understand a reference to one of the most famous philosophical dunks ever. Prof. Wolff calmly pointed out the things that are NOT unique to capitalism, so you can not define capitalism by them. He then demonstrated what makes capitalism unique from all previous economic systems to say "this is what my definition of capitalism is" - the employer/employee relationship. Destiny's audience needs to learn how to pay attention instead of memeing in chat
@@buzzerking If you want to have an idiots take of Wolff's long winded takes, then you have that right. The truth is modern capitalism literally exists because of socialism. We have mixed market economies. Therefore saying socialism is 'useless, let's do more capitalism' ignores why capitalism still exists. Socialism has saved it from itself multiple times and did so just recently during the pandemic.
I hate how people keep saying "well I don't talk as fast as you" and then go on to talk for well over double the length to just say the same things over and over again
Destiny, the way you should have confronted him on both the USSR point and the China point is that it is statistical manipulation, he already described how poor the USSR was at the start of the 20th century, then why surely it would have had explosive economic growth, it is a testament to how much technology could push progress, before organisational flaws contrain it, as for the Chinese, he cites it, again, the Chinese did so badly in the middle of the 20th century that they reached the natural economic growth point, and for that matter, analysing the Chinese economy, it only did about as well as the Indonesians, which is saying a lot about the flaws of the Chinese, similarly with the Soviets who if you just search up the wikipedia page had only reached a nominal per capita of about 10000 in 1990, Japan on the other hand reached 25k, albeit with a fluctuating currency complicating things, the US with 24k, one more factor one needs to keep in mind is that the USSR in total numbered 290 million, the US 250 million, Japan 125 million, Japan in particular was once predicted to surpass the US economy because of general ignorance of demography, one more factor comes in mind, the fact that the USSR collapsed, and currently the population of the former territories of the USSR totals at 300 million, the US 330-340 million, Japan just fell off to 123 or so million, seems to me that the USSR left a permanent scar on the region, with neither bountiful riches of economic efficiency, nor a demography to make up for it
You clearly have no knowledge of what you're talking about. Soviet economic growth was actually quite higher than Japan's up until WW2. You can't simply pull examples out of your ass. The US pumped very large sums of capital into Japan post-WW2 precisely to preempt a Communist revolution there.
I guess you have a shorter attention span than destiny, bc wolffe was talking about the gdp RATE of growth, which matters more if you want to discuss the outcomes of competing systems over time. weird that you bring up population growth, as if that is a good way to determine or somehow mitigate economic performance and wealth . I guess the Gazan economy is one of the most prosperous in the world bc birth rates "make up for organisational constraints"
"Every 4-7 years, the system collapses" - a PhD of Economics should know this is mostly a facet of central banks use of inflationary fiat currency -not capitalism. Such a cycle would happen in an economy type if they follow that money/banking system.
To be fair, that's the best way of doing philosophy; since philosophers haven't proven any BIG absolute truth, they should resign themselves to clarifying concepts.
Wolff lost the debate at the beginning. If you look at increase in GDP per capita over time, the US and Japan both outshine the Soviet Union by a long shot. What he's saying is just not true.
And he knows it isn’t true because he was corrected on this talking points WITH CITATIONS by economist David Friedman who he debated prior to this debate taking place. Wolff is lying and he knows he is lying, but he thinks he can pull one over on someone less educated on the matter.
12:54 - This "growth" which only exists on paper due to burecrats intentionally misrepresenting data to avoid punishment for not meeting quota, did not in any way materialize in the form of higher living standards in terms of which Soviet Union was lagging behind the rest of the world, especially Japan.
The soviet union had the highest economic growth prior to WW2. Then after it after vast amounts of people dead it slowed. Versus america which had almost no damage to infrastructure and a low death toll.
@@patrickbateman1660 America was leagues ahead of the soviets, and if not for their land-lease sovets would've been done for. Yes, fascism in soviet union was effective in industrializing quickly from basically a swamp to an okay factory, but that doesn't mean soviet outperformed the U.S. it is a laughable notion. And again ... people never bring up living standards and quality of life, because it reveals the truth that any "prosperity" soviet union hand existed mostly on paper.
To be fair, Destiny, you calling him condescending is kind of the pot calling the kettle black. It seems to be a blind spot of yours. You do talk in a very patronizing way quite a lot. 😉
To be fair, wolff ignores everything destiny says and goes on a 4 min ramble on irrelevant points. This is a discussion not a lecture, so wolff was patronizing initially by thinking destiny was going to let him be bad-faith and go on a diatribe.
@@minus6259 my point was that Destiny does it a lot. I think Wolff was reactive. Now is it right? No. But it doesn't change the fact that Destiny has a track record of treating others like they're stupid. At least it comes across that way.
@@yourfiction lol a guy defending the current capitalism even with the backdrop of failure can't be that smart. A smart person would realize the possible and experienced pitfalls of the extremes of both an unfiltered capitalist system AND an unfiltered socialistic system. Difficult to consider a guy smart when he's all attack dog on one and playing all defensive on the other.
@@scroopynooperz9051 Destiny said throughout this debate (and many others) that he wants reforms to the current capitalism, so I don't know why you think he doesn't want any changes. This debate simply wasn't about what he would change.
@@scroopynooperz9051 believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. For God so loved the world that he sent his one and only son and whoever believes in him shall not die but have eternal life. Jesus paid the pnelaty for our sin and if trust in him alone for salvation, you will be saved.Eternity in hell is a terrible place and only Jesus Christ can save you from it.
What is a chair?? Well a chair is not a couch. A chair is definitely not a motorcycle, which were invented in 1885 by a man named Gottlieb Daimer. You're probably unaware of this, but motorcycles are primarily used for transportation. You can sit on a motorcycle, but this alone does not make a motorcycle cycle a chair. Motorcycles' primary competition as a mode of transportation is a car. Now, cars have car seats which are part of the long tradition of sitting on things, a rich tradition full of many different types of chairs and proto-chairs.
It’s because he prioritizes his bullshit narrative over the facts. Richard Wolff is a liar and a hack, not a serious academic with legitimate work. He lied on his own doctoral dissertation.
@@aquili1 Maybe he has, but I can't know everything everyone who debates knows, so I can only infer from what I hear in the debate itself. I would *hope* that the person debating is giving their best version of their argument, and saying something along the lines of "We had a feudal structure, but the enlightenment era gave rise to mercantilism, and the works of Adam Smith [and/or] the industrial revolution gave rise to capitalism", because that would illustrate that these transitions from one economic paradigm to the next are a chain of events. I feel like establishing that chain is important to making the claim that there is another upcoming link to that chain. Plus, the human brain likes "the rule of three", so that might also help. I hope that makes sense.
Because he’s following the Marxist theory of historical materialism, which categorizes Western economic history into four stages: primitive communism, slave society, feudalism, and capitalism (with socialism and communism being the next two stages). This theory regards mercantilism as the early part of the capitalist mode of production.
Seems like destiny doesn't understand the nuances and depth of an incredibly broad concept. Richard wolff cannot debate someone who doesn't get the material, therefore he needs to start with educating his opponent. Destiny's famously rabid contempt for the very concept of socialism is bourne of ignorance. He has zero desire to actually learn about socialism. Since he regards it as a fantasy utopian ideal that could never take route in the real world. Why should he be bothered to even attempt to understand it?
It's hard to educate people when a lot of what you say is blatantly wrong and goes against what is understood by most people. For example: The part where Wolff completely misunderstands a company's fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders and how they meet that responsibility.
@@codymiller5468 it's hilarious how you think a college dropout debate bro is on the same level as an actual academic. Destiny doesn't know what he's talking about at all
Lance might be a filthy commie, but he is also a youtuber, so my guess is he (at least partially) takes pride in Destiny (another youtuber) being able to take a Professor to task.
He acts like China has performed well economically. Loads of countries that were equal to it in per capita per GDP in 1960 are way richer than it now, for example, South Korea, Taiwan, Maylasia, Panama....
@@yomomma5086 i think wolff was making a pretty fair point- 'democrats haven't been socialists in the last 100 years etc' truth is Destiny is another talking head who uses gish gallop- he's not an academic.
Thats the real kicker. Socialism is ALL ABOUT understanding how material power dynamics work, which has its roots in past ownership/wars, geography/natural disasters.
why are socialist speakers often so condescending? This professor is absolutely obnoxious. Not a big deal but it is annoying. And the other thing about socialists: they often have never lived in a socialist country and see how sh*t it is, and without having sufficient imagination, they often create illusions that socialism solves the problems. It doesn't. I lived in a socialist system for 15 years, it was crap, and it got a lot better when the country (Poland) went to a capitalist/free-market system in a very short time.
He is condescending because he needs to feign credibility. I am watching his appearance on Lex Fridman now and it’s just lie after lie after lie with this guy.
So, I haven't heard it all but after having Wolff mention Portugal I, has a portuguese, must intervene. It is needed to say that the major Socialist Party in this country is responsible for the 3 bankruptcies that we've faced in the last 30 years. The IMF came to this country after the global crisis in 2008 because of the shit show that was caused by said Socialist Party. The worst part is that most people here blame the Centre Right Wing party for being responsible for the cuts that were made during our recovery period, since they were the ones who came to power during said crisis. Ironically, they ignore that it was the previous Socialist Party who negotiated the deal with the IMF so, in the end, the Right Wing party gets the blame because it cut government spending on pensioners that are actually the majority of voters. Socialists have always been good at ruling the country when the pants fit more loosely and money can be spent, but they are a joke when it comes to managing it. At the same time, they impose higher and higher taxes suffocating the majority of businesses. We are not a rich country by Western metrics, we're the 45th richest in the world and 60% of the population lives off of the minimum wage (705$), not because businesses don't want to pay, but because they can't due to the level of taxes. We just don't produce and sell enough to justify the high taxes. Sadly, we will go into recession, our country will need to cut spending, this government will fall and the centre right wing will come along and try to fix the mess that has been caused by the Socialists, who will accuse their rivals of cutting spending and suffocating the public sector while allegating that it was all better with them... This country has no clear future and is facing high rates of qualified emigration. Nurses, Doctors, Architects, etc...even small business owners prefer to risk emigration in hopes of a better future than to stay here and get a chance at a medium quality of life, being able to survive but not enjoy vacations abroad nor even spending money on some stupid ostentatious whim from time to time, because they can't! This country is good for those who work abroad and live and pay taxes here because the wages are usually much higher so it becomes easy to pay the bills and you don't even need to worry with a 1000$ rent while living alone in the capital or other major city. :|
You don't produce enough guns or weapons like here in the UK that's why your economy is poor oh and the fact that global corporations won't allow you to grow. I don't know about your country but I can comment on the UK who was doing OK until our administration decided we needed a loan from the IMF interestingly the same Chancellor came out and admitted the UK didn't require the loan and he had been mistaken obviously that was after we signed agreements to sell off publicly owned production and utilities. The IMF like the World Bank and more recently the WEF isn't the friend of the people and soon you realise this once it is too late and your existance is dictated by a CBDC. Power corrupts and the idea of capitalism is to ensure power and wealth moves in one direction attracting and consuming any other wealth eventually resulting in a single entity perhaps even autocratic. I suggest you read brave new world and I would also take a look at the third world where capitalism exports its missery. Yes we can splitt ends and discuss where capital meets society which is what Marx intended with das capital but when all said and done both systems are a risk game but one turns slower and tries to limit its loss / waste admitedly its gains are much lower but they are steady whereas the other is reckless taking larger risks at the detriment of everything, its reckless and in the end suicidal look at all the pollution the oil, plastics and the amount of uneccery arms this I'm sure will become evident pretty soon and like Keynes said were already dead. Yes it's sad but on a more positive note at least we didn't spread the love. Look after yourself
I know! Isn't it sad? It's like an adult trying to explain simple facts to a three-year-old child. Destiny didn't even know that markets and capitalism are two different things. My God.
@@PristianoPenaldoSUIIII Should be on the moderator to explain time limits on speaking and also explain that its more a back and forth conversation. Which he did kind of mention and Destiny also brought up, Wolff didn’t seem to catch on
They're all victims of solipsism - their entire lives are spent online so a video game is just as real as an online debate between two real humans. Disturbing.
Finnish person here. I live in a co-op building, and get to vote on matters pertaining to the building such as whether to switch gardening companies or fix the sewer pipes. It is my understanding that all buildings work this way in Finland. Technically some building might be wholly owned by a renting company that then makes those decisions by itself, but majority of buildings will have some private people owning at least some of the apartments and voting on these issues. From Destiny's explanation about his fiance's dad's housing, I get the impression that this is not common in the USA. How does this kind of decision making work there? Or what is the most common arrangement for people owning apartments in an apartment building?
"Technically some building might be wholly owned by a renting company that then makes those decisions by itself" Depends on what you mean by apartments. Here apartments means the rental company owns the whole building, so no voting. There's condos where you have more leverage but you'd have to look up condominiums.
Citizens don't own apartments usually. They pay rent until they die. Few people own a lot of apartments. Some people own a few apartments. Most people in apartments own nothing.
A Spaniard here: co-ops in Spain don't follow Wolff's definition. In the board of directors every vote counts the same and the workers tend to be part of it, but it is not a requirement. You can have many employees working on the company with no vote on the board.
His entire sad career is predicated on not being able to define what he babbles out, otherwise his stupid would be immediately obvious even to his disciplines, who are not very bright to begin with.
@Peter Kunka He does come off as impolite and was for sure at times. I've watched his lectures and a debate before and he just seems to talk like he is always a little mad. The other thing is he talks very slowly and it sounds like hes being condescending or doing the "I'll slow this down so you can understand me" thing. I'm used to the way he talks but he was worse than usual this time.
Are you stupid? Making new products doesn’t correlate with economic growth. Japan can make 1000 different kinds of foot rub machines but that doesn’t compare to the insane economic growth of the Soviet Union
Convenient how in giving the concept of capitalism specifically having employer-employee contracts, Wolff ignores that the communist/socialist countries have that as well, and leaves out imperialism.
There's a pretty big difference between communism and socialism. In one of them, the government owns everything. In the other, you, the individual own your share of the means of production. Under capitalism, the owner of the corporation you work for owns everything except your private residence, but seeing as how continually less Americans are able to afford a home, even individual homeownership is becoming a thing of the past under capitalism.
weighing in a bit late but yea most people don't realize a fusion is necessary. Weather ppl call themselves or not, for the peoples best interest is socialism and a system that is in the best interest for the individual is capitalism.@@skiddish985 one for all vs all for one.
Do your guys' brains really boil this much whenever someone takes more than 15 seconds to answer a question? Nobody here is bringing up any good points against Wolff and just pretending that Destiny didnt get his beaten black and blue.
It’s easier to follow along when you don’t have to listen to a 20 minute monologue about the history of a movement when someone just asked you to define it.
@John Dennis but the answer will vary in different countries and in different time periods. What we consider the left in America is considered the center elsewhere. Everything exists in relation to other things
@@joseolivencia8382 ...but he was asking for HIS conception of socialism. If I ask you “what does basketball mean to you” I don’t want you to give every possible answer, just tell me what you think.
@@RUclipsMadeMePickHandle we live a country where Joe Biden and Bernie sanders are both called socialist so I think we do need a more in depth look at the term. If we have a government ran industry its called socialist but the police and military are not socialist. There is a lot of confusion or mislabelling going around
1:15:15 Lord Richard of House Wolff demands the peasant man with a woman's name: Destiny, to halt his trespasses against his majesty's speech eloquency.
Capitalism did not come from feudalism it came from early industrialization at the late stage of mercantilism, mercantilism did come from feudalism but you're skipping two steps, and that's very important because a lot of the atrocities of colonial governments were done under a mercantilis system not a capitalist one but it's called capitalism because they are ignorant
Destiny debates Richard Wolff on socialism vs capitalism and things get HEATED almost immediately after the opening. Enjoy!
fortnite battle royale
yee
Bruh this rambling boomer was the final boss? What a let down, Michael Albert did much better
destiny got owned jfc..he forgot he's debating an actual economist rather than a guy who just read a wikipedia article
Love ya bud.
You display great honesty.
Heather right or wrong.
You record you daily actions that display .
You're so confident about being okay with being incorrect and okay to say ... I've learned sense then.
Love ya bro , your actions truly echo in this world's ether
Constantly switching from 2.0x to .75x speed was exhausting
You have ADHD. Get diagnosed and take medicine.
You’re so cool
lazy ass
@@wezlee117?
This is such an underrated comment. 😂
Who will win:
Ph.D. Economist
League of Legends Streamer
Apparently the Ph.D. Economist. Who would have known haha
Neither, they talked past each other the whole time. Instead of getting mad, Richard Wolff should have addressed Destiny's specific questions.
@@Yoursoulismine814 He did though.
@@cptKamina Not really, he rattled off a bunch of irrelevant historical facts and malded over inequalities in capitalism. I'm a fan of Dr. Wolff, I've seen him do much better than he did here. It seemed like he was phoning it in and not taking it seriously. I would actually say Destiny won the debate because in his opening statement, he gave Dr. Wolff the 5 points he needed to hit to pull Destiny to his position and Dr. Wolff talked around them instead of directly answering them.
Turns out: league of legends streamer.
How can you have a debate regarding socialism when the socialist can't even define what it is? 😂
That is correct. All socialists are liars and sophists.
Now now, Wolfe-Man _can_ define Socialism. Socialism is like kittens and rainbows and Capitalism is its opposite! It's men in top-hats wearing monocles who send orphans up chimneys to clean them.
Of course he can't just come out and give you his definitions. Because if he did that, strangers in utube comments would make fun of him.
This is the best advertisement for Red Bull in the history of our species
Underrated comment 🤣🤣
🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
Well. It also didn't help compensate for his debating style let alone content.
“What is your definition of socialism?”
Richard: “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way - in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only...”
Can't believe you took your time to type this but nice meme 9/10
these memes are killing me🤣
In be4 Jon Snow says "It's called education. Take notes"
@@Phil.Anthropy im writing it all down
@@xDDufiosy
God's work... I'm sure Jon Snow is blowing loads to your efforts.
I think it was VERY rude of Destiny to try interrupting Mr Wolff's point every 20 minutes.
@@CynicalBastard made more of a point then wolf we should re name this to a lecture.
@@CynicalBastard *wrong*
@@TheGamersCastInc great argument
@@SoyMilkPapii learned it from our former prez.
@@Shape4995 woooosh
This is what it looks like when someone used to academic style debates comes to debate on RUclips. It's the equivalent to someone practiced in fencing being tossed into a knife fight behind a Denny's. The "long winded" explanations that Wolff gives are very common in more traditionally structured academic debates and no one who has watched them would be unfamiliar with this. It's very common for rebuttals and counter-rebuttals to go on for 10, 15, or 20 minutes.
Sounds beeeeetaaaaaa
@@harryseaton7444 And you sound like a 12 year old
Normally that happens because they have a lot to say. In this case, Wolff made 10 minute monologues to address points that Destiny had not made or to defend forms of socialism that Wolff doesn't actually advocate for. If you're going to talk for a long time, the conversation should probably be moved forwards and not just shifted across onto a different route.
He also came into the debate armed with nothing but arrogance
Wolff gets his ass handed to him on the academic stage
3 years later and I still can’t get over how stupid the point about the USSR and China’s economic growth is. Of course 2 countries with massive populations that rapidly industrialize (a century later than every western country) will have huge economic growth. Trying to attribute that so socialism without demonstrating ANY causal link is brain dead at best and deceitful at worst. A PHD should definitely know better.
Not only should he know better about that, he is just straight up lying about the USSR being the fastest growing. He pulled this crap against an actual economist in a debate months prior and got corrected with direct citations to the literature by David Friedman. Wolff is lying and he knows he is lying.
There has been economic growth everywhere. But the relative growth in prosperity of a Soviet slave worker remained at poverty levels if compared to Capitalist economies such as Australia, the US, Canada, New Zealand, Germany, Japan, etc.
Wolff is a doctor of arts in economics. I would suggest a 3rd year undergrad pursuing a bachelor's of science is better informed about the topic.
@@soulcapitalist6204 Wolff-Man is a Phd in economist, and has been a so called "economist" for like 300 years, and is yet to publish a single paper in a credible economics journals for his peers, as far as I've been able to determine. This is what other economists describe as "a crank". If he didn't have a government job, he'd struggle to qualify for order taking at McDonald's.
Destiny: what’s your definition on this word?
Wolf: *rap god in slow motion*
It’s called education. Take notes.
@@jonsnow5513 found the Wolf fan boy
@@oldmate8886 found the destiny fanboy
@@jonsnow5513 You would think education would lead to coherent and concise definitions and explanations of complex subjects not the opposite
@@amnuel12 what? Destiny fans watch his videos? That’s crazy man so how long have you been getting butt hurt and coming to destiny’s comments to cry?
Destiny: Uh, what is your definition of socialism?
Wolff: *It was a warm spring night in Ancient Greece when Aristotle and Socrates argued about free markets...*
It’s called education. Take notes sh*tlib.
A Turtle approves of this definition
@@jonsnow5513 more like irrelevant rambling of a senile dude unable to answer the simplest questions.
@@jonsnow5513 cool, but it would help if he just got to the point without stating irrelevant history.
@@jonsnow5513 bro get a life.
You can just see Destiny internally screaming the entire time Wolf is speaking wishing for the ability to place speech in real time at 1.5x speed
Hahaha dude I usually play vids on 1.5x speed. I couldn’t tell it was already on when I hit play and was dumbfounded when I went to change it. Destiny’s mind is probably like a hamster on a wheel during Wolff’s parts. Not necessarily worse or better, but it definitely demonstrated how used to Destiny’s 🐹🎡 brain I’ve gotten.
@@ash_tray_6I love how Wolf gives these vicious looks into the camera like he wants to stab destiny and Destiny is looking to the side probably fact checking and writing notes completely unemotionally 😂 Wolff is so clearly a hateful man making arguments purely from an emotional place. And I listened to an interview from him and it’s literally just daddy issues, says his dad never paid attention to him unless he was preaching about socialism 😂 gotta get dads approval and destroy those evil capitalists (Nevermind he’s a business owner)
I feel that, talking to women 99% of the time I want that shit on 2x
@@michaelturley3457 you must be a psychologist.
@@biologicalstatistics3320 just not autistic. Do you think you need a degree to know men with neglectful fathers are looking for their approval? Or when someone’s scowling and raising their voice they’re angry with you? Nice try though.
Mrs. Wolff: “Dear, what did you want for dinner?”
Professor wolff: “well, there are many things that I want and I will explain each one but before I do let me describe what I do not want!”
It's like Bizarro Jordan Peterson
@@kyriacosomerou2072 but somehow worse lol
You clearly didn't watch all of the video.
@@simonjaz1279 i know for a fact that u watched the first 10 minutes and stopped. it's called deductive reasoning to specify your stance. maybe learn the difference between deductive and inductive reasoning before making such quippy one liners.
@@kyriacosomerou2072 it's called deductive reasoning to specify your stance. maybe learn the difference between deductive and inductive reasoning before making such quippy one liners.
One was speedrunning
The other slowrunning
The pacing of this debate was the most chaotic thing ever
I wouldn't be surprised if destiny spoke more words than wolff even though wolff spoke for 2/3 of the debate
Who cares about the pace lol. Wolff is a university professor and he just got rekt by a youtuber on his own specialty
@@stefm.5947 Do only one who got rekt is destiny.
@@stefm.5947 dude destiny got literally assblasted.
@@johnlane5817 how exactly?
This dude a unskipable cutscene
Keep crying Lispiny lost
@@jonsnow5513 you know destiny won when you’re attacking him over his lisp 😂
@@gyytgy3330 Keep coping. You're favorite debate streamer that you have a parasocial relationship with got absolutely obliterated
@@jonsnow5513 whipping out the abilism boys. When the left comes to argue, they aren't sending their best.
@@natelarper2650 Oh the "parasocial meme". :D
I guess you won the comment debate, bro!
Destiny debated a prerecorded lecture
😂
Hi, a swede here. The Social Democrats that's in our government are not, nor do they call themselves, socialists. It's a left-center liberal party. They advocate free market capitalism with a social safety net and haven't been socialists (or called themselves so) for like 50 years or so.
Yeah same with Finland
no that argument is not credible because richard wolff just decided to ignore it and go on another 8 minute monologue without addressing anything actually asked of him
@@goblin6587 SOCIAL Democrat is different from a Socialist Democrat
Same here for his Portuguese example. We've had a dictator up until our 70's revolution, and the parties that spawned out of it HAD to distance themselves from anything right-wing for obvious practical reasons, thus all the red iconography and "socialist"/"communist" in their names. Sure it's still a very leftist country to this day, considering millenial's parents including my own experienced Salazar, but we're far away from what any normal person would call a commie country. We're mostly just incompetent and corrupt, akin to the rest of southern EU and S.America, regardless of whether they veer right or left.
Social democracy itself is a strand of socialism….
Shift + < = Slow down playback.
Shift + > = Speed up playback.
Don't mention it.
PSA: Chris radiates BDE
YO
THANKS
Thanks
You my man are a genius
TIL
Richard Wolf sets his early disclaimer that he speaks slow.
Me, who is slow: Perfect
Well, you need to be slow to be a socialist.
Jk jk, it was demanding it :p
To be honest I feel like I understood most of what wolff said for the first half but by the end of the debate his monologues would get so long winded I just lost interest in hearing him out.
I honestly prefer that way
@@evolution__snow6784 Problem is that Destiny speaks way faster, so I can't adjust the speed to my ideal, one of them is too fast or the other is too slow.
@@VieiraFi Big problem indeed. Wolf needs 2x speed and Destiny 1.5x at most T.T
Destiny: "What is 2 + 2?"
Wolff: "Not 5"
Its also not 6.
@@meyer798no
Socialism isn't basic math. It's calculus with derivatives, integers, etc you buffoon.
That's how structuralism works, and if you would learn about that a bit, you would realise that comparing it to math is pointless.
@@ExorG The answer is 4. It doesn't matter what I did to get there specifically as long as it makes logical sense. That was all Destiny was saying.
"Oh yeah sorry I didn't want to interrupt you during my answer professor"
That one made me cackle like a witch
1:21:41
repent to God
@@Baggerz182 Matthew 6.
This is not how you convert people, brother.
Wolff talks for 15 mins. Takes a slight pause after finishing a point.
Destiny "can i jus.."
Wolff "stop interrupting me"
that´s basically it, lol
Hes an old man bro, youll see what its like when you get there and so will all of us lol
@@biscotti4017 so when I get older I will change from an introvert to an extrovert, and ramble about whatever comes to my mind to anyone who can hear?
@Karl Marx lolz
@@e1dsd720 working as a closer for a grocery store you would be surprised how many old people think that their life story, political opinions and complaints about society matter to a dude stocking milk at 10 at night.
Good on you Destiny for not interrupting the professor during your answer.
Funny take, bro. LOL
Well, here’s the thing. His responses are flawed, and it becomes obvious already from every outset: He talks a lot, and he talks fast, but the flawed position which he’s basing all his subsequent arguments (or identity-politics/aiming for a «win»/strengthening his prepared established position) makes all those sentences fall short even from very minimal scrutiny. The devil is in the details. This is why Wolff keeps interrupting. Because Destiny is wrong, again and again, on very fundamental intricacies and nuances that form his position, and even more so, how he «perceives» Wolff’s position; in fact twisting it.
I read somewhere in the comments that this video proves a PhD is worth nothing more than toilet paper. On the contrary, it proves and demonstrates the importance of actually knowing what you’re talking about BEFORE you’re aiming for a wordly «win». You need to read, and read a lot. Going into the nuances and complexities and from THERE form a generalized position. This takes massive amounts of concentration on arguments over thousands of pages. Destiny, in comparison with Wolff, seems to have skim-read a «communism 101» , a simplistic «10 points defining socialism» anthology, or along with Wikipedia summaries, second hand interpretations of Marx, as a way to strengthen is intuitive initial position. This is why he wants a simple minded «definition» of socialism from Wolff, to old onto before digging himself back in the trench, aiming for a dumbed down «win» or «destroyal» for everyone to see on RUclips.
@@chriswambraw 13 or so sentences and you managed to say absolutely nothing. That's impressive to say the least. Where does it suggest I agreed with Destiny's takes or arguments? As it stands I don't for the most part, but the word salad you have posted here takes the cake.
This absolutely warrants a screenshot for use in my classes as "S" tier rhetoric with no substance. Can you substantiate anything you claim, just one thing? like; "his responses are flawed..." Name a flawed response. That should be easy as "it becomes obvious already from every outset", then name a single flawed outset, or something.
Perhaps if Destiny actually listened instead of just waiting for his turn to attack something, a consensus would have been reached at the 36 minute mark. It seems that while Wolff spoke, Destiny was busy mouse clicking. What a jackass!
@@need-to-know- I used to think the same way as you about Destiny. Out of curiosity, could you explain to me what someone is doing when they take notes of what you are saying?
And this guy is a an economic professor? Thats embarrassing. His classes must take days to finish lmao. His best possible definition of “socialism” is “whatever you can critique of socialism is actually capitalism”
Yep. He can’t get basic definitions or history right and lies constantly. The dude is a clown.
@@ExPwner my man still out here coming back every single day to reply to every single comment ... interesting
@@DH-ht4slnope
@@ExPwner yup
@@DH-ht4slnope. Try again bud
I hate that chat is on in debates. It adds absolutely nothing
The Wolff who cried feudalism
Idiot says what
Fancy seeing you here!
“He’s educating us wahhhhhhhhhhhhh” - Destiny’s sh*tlib fanbase
@@OfLaSoul it Jon Snow's 2nd account.
Holy fuck this man IS unwell
Tf are you talking about?
He drinks the Red Bull to assert dominance. Classic debate tacticstiny
Still took an L
Having wings is unfair debate tactics.
and to promote capitalism ;)
@@gaston6800 Chomsky is a plant
@@jonsnow5513 and if wolf is the best you got then whew. I’m sorry, but the revolution isn’t happening.
Ricky wolff is beyond mental gymnastics and entered into a level of mental acrobatics
I've spent roughly 60 hours listening to Wolff debate and lecture. I rarely hear him offer a coherent answer without moralizing, belittling, or lecturing. I do not trust him, it seems to me that he relies on "I've taught this stuff for many years and you just don't understand enough to see I'm correct."
That's the methodology of all cranks.
You are entirely correct. He is a lying Marxist ideologue who only moralizes, bullies and makes shit up.
Lol just stop it. You truly don't know what you are talking about.😂
@@Johnnyfever247Did he hurt your feelings darling?
Interesting. I’ve only seen Wolff when he was on the Lex Fridman podcast, and ya I felt like he would dodge the most important questions thrown at him.
Richard Wolff - “that’s not how you pronounce Mondragon”
Also Richard Wolff - “DIE-RECK-TORES”
Also calling Steven "Steve".
Jeff Beezos bzz bzz
It’s funny how he said that and still went on to pronounce the R in the world the most American way possible
Hey there stranger!
Damn, you Destiny stans seem awfully similar to another group of people blindly devoted to one mans opinion.
Blind devotion is never healthy.
Based on Wolff’s first definition of the three he gave for Socialism, Destiny is a Socialist lol
Doesn't Destiny identify as a Soc Dem? Which is the first definition Wolff gave...
@@kylehorvath9295 Yes I believe so, but that’s just regulation and a social safety net under Capitalism (I.e. a private property-based market economy). It still falls under the capitalist umbrella, which is why Destiny was confused with Wolff’s definition.
Based on Wolff’s first definition, the US is a socialist state. In fact, there is no capitalist country in the world.
Not really... Wolff isn't very clear. Social democracy was a concept coined by Marxists in the late 1800s, it was intended to be a transitional system from capitalism to socialism. Marxists argued that the best way to transition to socialism is by first decommodifying inelastic markets (like health care and education), and redistributing wealth to disenfranchised proletarians (aka welfare state). In the end capitalists held power and co-opted social democracy as another form of neo-liberal capitalism. Which means... many social democrats today are not actually socialists, because they don't subscribe to social democracy in it's original form, they are just capitalists who believe that social democracy has already achieved it's goals. There are socialists in Europe who are still abiding by the original definition of social democracy, but at this stage they are a small minority.
So in other words... social democrats who push for welfare states for the sake of capitalism are not socialists, social democrats who push for a welfare state for the sake of socialism are socialists. Destiny is the former, not the latter.
@@canadagoose8543 that’s exactly destinys position
Okay, two things Richard Wolff has said during this discussion:
1) "We live in a society"
2) "How about another question?"
Is he the Joker?
lmao
you take half a million dollar bonus in stocks, no one bats an eye. You democratize ONE workplace, and eVeRYonE loSES theIr FrEakINg MindS
terminally online
Is he the joker? Let me tell you what he not is.
Dr wolfe speaks like a high school paper.
"What is different between socialism and capitalism?" "In the early 1900s, socialism began...." just answer the question and discuss what you're interested in defending, destiny is arguing against 18 definitions of socialism"
This debate would have been a lot more interesting if it focused less on "what qualifies as socialism" and more on "what policies do you advocate for that I don't, and why?"
No.
Can’t do that, without a solid foundation you can’t begin a conversation!
@@thomashooper9148 eh? But the second point is by far the most important, the first is mostly getting bogged down in syntax.
Socialists and communists never like to talk about pragmatic boots on the ground actions and only talk about semantics and fantastical theories not based on reality. If one socialist named policies, actions and how they would do it as efficiently as possible they might actually get somewhere.
@@nelsonman1231 the problem was that everytime wolff said a policy destiny countered with the that those policies could be implimented under capitalism. So therefore no one or two or three policies would even be enough because destiny would counter with "well thats not unique to capitalism"
This is because the definition of capitalism and sociism are sort of arbitrary and shifting. Capitalism of a 150 years ago is very different than the capitalism now likewise so is the articulation of socialism
.
Destiny is playing a cheap debate technique which I think works well with more narrowly defined arguments but with these sort of arguments it's kind of stupid.
Damn Destiny let Richard speak a little.
We don’t have 3 months for him to finish a sentence haha
Yes, I wish to take notes.
he should at least raise his hand first to ask a question
I’ve watched for 33 minutes and destiny might have only spoken for less than 5 minutes. It’s just Richard rambling about the history of socialism and market economies at a word per minute. How did a debate about socialism turn into a discussion of Greek philosophers? Fucking hell.
Why are people saying this??? Wolff spoke for the vast majority of the segment? R u ok
Richard Wolff has to be one of the most unlikeable speakers I've ever heard. He just SOUNDS hateful. And his facial features do him no help either. Not to mention he frequently talks down to the people he's discussing/debating with.
And I'm not even a Destiny fan, just came here to see what this Wolff guy was about. I think I can dismiss him now.
Not only that but he is also a lying hack. He lied here about the USSR and it’s growth rate.
A fundamental disagreement is that Wolfe thinks countries like Norway are a type of Socialism, and Steve thinks Norway is a type of Capitalism
It's framed as binary, but it's not really binary. There's free bottom up markets, or restricted top down markets, and then everything in-between.
The oldest trick in the socialist playbook: offer a wishy-washy definition so your opponents can never pin you down and find out what you're really talking about is absolute totalitarian dictatorship with you sitting pretty at the top of the pyramid.
@@Jeff-vn1xz Yeah but in the specific definition of capitalism as workers managing their own land, labour and capital and selling it through the free markets versus socialism where the land, labour and capital is managed by the collective it's clear that the Scandinavian model is capitalistic.
Scandinavia's robust safety nets cannot exist without the state levying a tax on the free market system which underpins the entire safety net. Since that underpinning system is capitalist, it would follow the social safety nets built ontop of said system are capitalist as well and not socialist.
@@bdr689 But where's the dividing line? People think the Nazi's weren't socialists because there was an illusion of private ownership. But do you own it if you don't control it? Is state capitalism not a contradiction in terms? How many regulations, or how much tax is the limit on control that defines it as capitalism or socialism?
@@Jeff-vn1xz
God, what a stupid statement. Illusion of private ownership under the Nazis? lmao. I never understood why people with absolutely no understanding of history bother to make such statements.
Watching at 1.25x speed where Destiny talks at 2x speed and Richard talks at .75x speed....
Maybe a new editing standard would be in order, implementing exactly that rule for all videos? :D Slowing and speeding up certain parts so all are talking at reasonable speed.
Omg dick really does sound normal at 1.25 lmao i had forgotten it was sped up at all until destiny started talking lmaoo
Good idea
My husband didn't believe me that I was watching at 1.25x until I showed him.
Bruhhh sameeeee
This is exhausting cause I gotta change the playback speed every time the speaker changes lol
exactly
😅
Download video speed controller if you're using chrome and just press 'd' to speed up and 's' to slow down. It's crazy useful for uni lectures/youtube videos and basically any other video. You can also speed up any video to winstiny speeds of +30x
Good thing wolff doesnt let randos like destiny speak very often. Imagine if this had been a debate instead of a lecture.
lol u 2? .75 here is fine
13:55 "不管黑猫白猫，能捉到老鼠就是好猫" Deng Xiaoping's quote is very telling here. Wolff says china's economic development is a testament to the merit of socialism. Under Mao China experienced the worst economy perhaps ever, many millions died. After Mao's death in the 70s it allowed for the freedom to question the direction of the country. In the 80s Deng Xiaoping transitioned to an authoritarian market-capitalism mix saying as quoted earlier, "No matter if the cat is black or the cat is white, so long as it catches the mouse it is a good cat." Communism or capitalism, we do not care as long as it works. This was a subtle way of admitting the failure of the communist approach while maintaining authority and pivoting to new ideas. Starting in the 90s and the 2000s we see remarkable GDP growth. This further progresses in the 2010s, though it is generally considered to be malinvestment, speculative, and rife with false reporting of GDP figures to meet unrealistic quotas. I paused at that point, really bugged me that he was misattributing socialism to the merit deserved by free markets.
Remarkable, an actual intelligent comment in utube comments...
Wolff's condescending attitude was very annoying, especially when his arguments rarely addressed Destiny's points nor had more substance than merely a pseudo history lesson.
That is his entire shtick. He just talks down to people with a bunch of bullshit and has his cultists make excuses when he gets caught lying: “you just didn’t understand him” every time.
@@ExPwner That's rather disappointing
Dr. Wolff doesn’t stand for anything but being critical of capitalism. He doesn’t realize he’s simply a populist(the people over the elite). He’s been using the socialist label for his adult life because of the iconoclastic power behind it.
Destiny just as bad.
@@Mangledshepherd i think u were accidentally listening to this debate on mute
It’s weird how Destiny didn’t bust out a pizza. He always seemed like the kinda guy to bring a machine gun to a sword fight
He drank a red bull, disgusting tactics if you ask me.
@@PlaystationPeeps That’s not even 10% of his full power
@@BlackSalamander439 Not even his final form.
When he get's serious he'll do a dual cooking stream while memeing about this bullshit.
He's evolving: cutting back on debating edgy nazbols and nazis.
Time to get mainstream and spread the message.
DI REC TORS
I'm the KO MEN TOR
"Steve"
@@Final015 I use the soul of the MAN DRA GON to summon the DIE REC TOR
This is what you call a academic fraud. Only young kids buys his bull sheet and why he is even relevant.
I had to switch from x1.75 to x1.0 speed so often I felt like a DJ
Richard "A Dog is not a Cat" Wolff.
Underated comment
@@ARKHAM367 seriously, these libs didn't even understand a reference to one of the most famous philosophical dunks ever.
Prof. Wolff calmly pointed out the things that are NOT unique to capitalism, so you can not define capitalism by them. He then demonstrated what makes capitalism unique from all previous economic systems to say "this is what my definition of capitalism is" - the employer/employee relationship. Destiny's audience needs to learn how to pay attention instead of memeing in chat
@@MrDoomedtofail You say that but Wolf's definition of socialism is essentially "Socialism is everything."
@@buzzerking If you want to have an idiots take of Wolff's long winded takes, then you have that right. The truth is modern capitalism literally exists because of socialism. We have mixed market economies. Therefore saying socialism is 'useless, let's do more capitalism' ignores why capitalism still exists. Socialism has saved it from itself multiple times and did so just recently during the pandemic.
@@heavysystemsinc. You’re clearly an economic illiterate, don’t speak about economics ever again.
moderator: you get a 1 minute response
wolff: you.... see.... steve....
I hate how people keep saying "well I don't talk as fast as you" and then go on to talk for well over double the length to just say the same things over and over again
Destiny can literally just start calling himself a "type 1 socialist" so the lefties can no longer call him a neolib
half cuban bisexual non-binary socialist king💅🏼
he's just a liberal. wolff is basically also a liberal; more or less a socdem. neither are socialists by any stretch.
He’s just a neoliberal. Call a spade a spade.
@@gloverelaxis That's wrong af.
Pretty sure that lefties call everything they don't like neolib, at least when even they can't call it fascist
A guy who talks too fast vs a guy who talks too slow.
"You leave enterprises in the hands of private capitalists." How this guy could say this is a strain of Socialism is beyond me...
Destiny, the way you should have confronted him on both the USSR point and the China point is that it is statistical manipulation, he already described how poor the USSR was at the start of the 20th century, then why surely it would have had explosive economic growth, it is a testament to how much technology could push progress, before organisational flaws contrain it, as for the Chinese, he cites it, again, the Chinese did so badly in the middle of the 20th century that they reached the natural economic growth point, and for that matter, analysing the Chinese economy, it only did about as well as the Indonesians, which is saying a lot about the flaws of the Chinese, similarly with the Soviets who if you just search up the wikipedia page had only reached a nominal per capita of about 10000 in 1990, Japan on the other hand reached 25k, albeit with a fluctuating currency complicating things, the US with 24k, one more factor one needs to keep in mind is that the USSR in total numbered 290 million, the US 250 million, Japan 125 million, Japan in particular was once predicted to surpass the US economy because of general ignorance of demography, one more factor comes in mind, the fact that the USSR collapsed, and currently the population of the former territories of the USSR totals at 300 million, the US 330-340 million, Japan just fell off to 123 or so million, seems to me that the USSR left a permanent scar on the region, with neither bountiful riches of economic efficiency, nor a demography to make up for it
You clearly have no knowledge of what you're talking about. Soviet economic growth was actually quite higher than Japan's up until WW2. You can't simply pull examples out of your ass. The US pumped very large sums of capital into Japan post-WW2 precisely to preempt a Communist revolution there.
stop writing such long sentences
Did you have time to breathe while saying what you wrote? 😂
I guess you have a shorter attention span than destiny, bc wolffe was talking about the gdp RATE of growth, which matters more if you want to discuss the outcomes of competing systems over time. weird that you bring up population growth, as if that is a good way to determine or somehow mitigate economic performance and wealth . I guess the Gazan economy is one of the most prosperous in the world bc birth rates "make up for organisational constraints"
@@bleekrisp did I not address that at the top?
I wonder if Mrs Wolff has ever been allowed to finish
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Nice guys finish last.
socialists only stop when the money is gone
You're just wrong. Destiny is a girl's name
Wolff outed himself with his PS5 argument.
"Every 4-7 years, the system collapses" - a PhD of Economics should know this is mostly a facet of central banks use of inflationary fiat currency -not capitalism. Such a cycle would happen in an economy type if they follow that money/banking system.
Cranky Professor Fruit Nut may have passed his exam and got his degree, but he is a crank, not an economist by any reasonable definition.
*Destiny:* _"What is capitalism to you?"_
*Wolff:* _"Here is what capitalism is not (...)"_
NICE
To be fair, that's the best way of doing philosophy; since philosophers haven't proven any BIG absolute truth, they should resign themselves to clarifying concepts.
@@markusoreos.233 Logic 101 is that defining a thing based on what it is not is the worst way to define it.
@@tiaandeswardt7741 I was talking about a more academic approach, Wolff's display on the debate was awfully contrived.
@@markusoreos.233 What academic approach to definitions would that be exactly?
@@TheBIOSStar Analytic philosophy is basically that.
Right in my FEEED. Destiny is a gir- wait RICHARD WOLFF????
The turtle is giving birth to offspring.
Ahhhhh.
@@markusoreos.233 I am the first child of the turtle, to carry on his legacy through the lefty youtube community
@@masondyfjxuw Poetic!!!
Wolff lost the debate at the beginning. If you look at increase in GDP per capita over time, the US and Japan both outshine the Soviet Union by a long shot. What he's saying is just not true.
And he knows it isn’t true because he was corrected on this talking points WITH CITATIONS by economist David Friedman who he debated prior to this debate taking place. Wolff is lying and he knows he is lying, but he thinks he can pull one over on someone less educated on the matter.
12:54 - This "growth" which only exists on paper due to burecrats intentionally misrepresenting data to avoid punishment for not meeting quota, did not in any way materialize in the form of higher living standards in terms of which Soviet Union was lagging behind the rest of the world, especially Japan.
The soviet union had the highest economic growth prior to WW2. Then after it after vast amounts of people dead it slowed. Versus america which had almost no damage to infrastructure and a low death toll.
@@patrickbateman1660 America was leagues ahead of the soviets, and if not for their land-lease sovets would've been done for. Yes, fascism in soviet union was effective in industrializing quickly from basically a swamp to an okay factory, but that doesn't mean soviet outperformed the U.S. it is a laughable notion. And again ... people never bring up living standards and quality of life, because it reveals the truth that any "prosperity" soviet union hand existed mostly on paper.
To be fair, Destiny, you calling him condescending is kind of the pot calling the kettle black. It seems to be a blind spot of yours. You do talk in a very patronizing way quite a lot. 😉
To be fair, wolff ignores everything destiny says and goes on a 4 min ramble on irrelevant points. This is a discussion not a lecture, so wolff was patronizing initially by thinking destiny was going to let him be bad-faith and go on a diatribe.
@@minus6259 my point was that Destiny does it a lot. I think Wolff was reactive. Now is it right? No. But it doesn't change the fact that Destiny has a track record of treating others like they're stupid. At least it comes across that way.
@@yourfiction lol a guy defending the current capitalism even with the backdrop of failure can't be that smart.
A smart person would realize the possible and experienced pitfalls of the extremes of both an unfiltered capitalist system AND an unfiltered socialistic system.
Difficult to consider a guy smart when he's all attack dog on one and playing all defensive on the other.
@@scroopynooperz9051 Destiny said throughout this debate (and many others) that he wants reforms to the current capitalism, so I don't know why you think he doesn't want any changes. This debate simply wasn't about what he would change.
@@scroopynooperz9051 believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. For God so loved the world that he sent his one and only son and whoever believes in him shall not die but have eternal life. Jesus paid the pnelaty for our sin and if trust in him alone for salvation, you will be saved.Eternity in hell is a terrible place and only Jesus Christ can save you from it.
They both pronounce Mondragón wrong, one correcting the other made it funny.
Richard's was definitely the anglicized version of the pronunciation. No clue where Destiny's came from.
Wolff corrects on mondragon, but then says die-rekt-OHRZ (directors). Geez...
@@user-nf9xc7ww7m no mames! wolff ni de pedo lo pronunció correctamente, los dos lo pronunciaron mal.
What is a chair??
Well a chair is not a couch. A chair is definitely not a motorcycle, which were invented in 1885 by a man named Gottlieb Daimer. You're probably unaware of this, but motorcycles are primarily used for transportation. You can sit on a motorcycle, but this alone does not make a motorcycle cycle a chair. Motorcycles' primary competition as a mode of transportation is a car. Now, cars have car seats which are part of the long tradition of sitting on things, a rich tradition full of many different types of chairs and proto-chairs.
Perfect comment
Brilliant 👏👏👏
Now you might ask; what is a car seat? Well, it's certainly not a boat seat.
How does an economics professor skip Mercantilism, and just goes from Feudalism to Capitalism?
It’s because he prioritizes his bullshit narrative over the facts. Richard Wolff is a liar and a hack, not a serious academic with legitimate work. He lied on his own doctoral dissertation.
cuz he's a hack, like every other socialist who's ever existed.
Well he doesn’t, if you watch other interviews/lectures of him he clearly explains how mercantilism eventually created capitalism.
@@aquili1 Maybe he has, but I can't know everything everyone who debates knows, so I can only infer from what I hear in the debate itself. I would *hope* that the person debating is giving their best version of their argument, and saying something along the lines of "We had a feudal structure, but the enlightenment era gave rise to mercantilism, and the works of Adam Smith [and/or] the industrial revolution gave rise to capitalism", because that would illustrate that these transitions from one economic paradigm to the next are a chain of events. I feel like establishing that chain is important to making the claim that there is another upcoming link to that chain.
Plus, the human brain likes "the rule of three", so that might also help. I hope that makes sense.
Because he’s following the Marxist theory of historical materialism, which categorizes Western economic history into four stages: primitive communism, slave society, feudalism, and capitalism (with socialism and communism being the next two stages). This theory regards mercantilism as the early part of the capitalist mode of production.
Seems like Destiny is trying to debate while Richard is trying to educate. They both seem to be on different wave length.
Seems like destiny doesn't understand the nuances and depth of an incredibly broad concept. Richard wolff cannot debate someone who doesn't get the material, therefore he needs to start with educating his opponent. Destiny's famously rabid contempt for the very concept of socialism is bourne of ignorance. He has zero desire to actually learn about socialism. Since he regards it as a fantasy utopian ideal that could never take route in the real world. Why should he be bothered to even attempt to understand it?
@@pearsonbrennan6222 nailed it
@@pearsonbrennan6222 "No communist/marxist has ever given me a good argument" "Have you read Marx" "I tried" lol
@@pearsonbrennan6222 He does understand it. He have a definition in his opening statement.
It's hard to educate people when a lot of what you say is blatantly wrong and goes against what is understood by most people.
For example: The part where Wolff completely misunderstands a company's fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders and how they meet that responsibility.
It really seems like Destiny just can't grasp what Wolff is saying.
He is out of his league
@@codymiller5468 it's hilarious how you think a college dropout debate bro is on the same level as an actual academic. Destiny doesn't know what he's talking about at all
Wolff isn’t an academic, he is a Marxist hack who can’t do basic economics.
@@ExPwner emeritus professor lmaoooo
@@TsDxX not an argument, as he doesn't even get Econ 101 correct.
Gotta say fair play to Lance on this one, he had every incentive to be biased towards Wolff, but he wasn't
wait was HE the moderator?
Lance might be a filthy commie, but he is also a youtuber, so my guess is he (at least partially) takes pride in Destiny (another youtuber) being able to take a Professor to task.
lance is a marxist economist wtf you on about@@andreasesser4641
What does he not understand?
Yea I loved how he asked Destiny to stop interrupting Wolff while it was Destiny's turn to answer a question.
He acts like China has performed well economically. Loads of countries that were equal to it in per capita per GDP in 1960 are way richer than it now, for example, South Korea, Taiwan, Maylasia, Panama....
BASED af
Richard Wolffs Storytime Hour.
Presented by: Is this even a debate?
Starring: Who hired this moderator?
and Would You Just Let Richard Talk!?
Dude he recites the entirety of das kapital when destiny asks for a definition
“He’s educating us wahhhhhhhhhhhhh” - Destiny’s sh*tlib fanbase
@@jonsnow5513 you can curse kid, no need to censor "shit"
@@jonsnow5513 it's a debate not a lecture, but of course the collectivist circle jerk ideology can't seem to get that
@@TheOneWhoShushes Turned the USSR from one of the poorest countries on the planet into a superpower. Keep weeping
Destiny got Boomersplained in this lecture.
Richard Wolff is a tedious preacher.
Crazy that the esteemed professor is defining terms in descriptions, and the college dropout is defining terms in definitions 😅
Destiny said "history is not relevant..."
Professor vs twitch streamer
@@yomomma5086 i think wolff was making a pretty fair point- 'democrats haven't been socialists in the last 100 years etc' truth is Destiny is another talking head who uses gish gallop- he's not an academic.
Thats the real kicker. Socialism is ALL ABOUT understanding how material power dynamics work, which has its roots in past ownership/wars, geography/natural disasters.
@@christophergreen6595 thats philosophy and not relevant in a socialism debate
@@jamesclark976 he literally explained how socialism IS about understanding materialism and the power dynamics in it
@@giancarlocaballero7684 that is irrelevant to the debate, its about if his economic model is better
1:21:45 "Sorry I didn't mean to interrupt him during my answer" DEAD
This was really cringeworthy dude
@@natelarper2650 why can't you just let people meme in peace.
@@natelarper2650 nah it was hilarious
@@kyle2 I am way funnier than you and my sense of humor is way better than yours
@@JustScrapHD you think it's funny because you're 15 years old grow up
why are socialist speakers often so condescending? This professor is absolutely obnoxious. Not a big deal but it is annoying. And the other thing about socialists: they often have never lived in a socialist country and see how sh*t it is, and without having sufficient imagination, they often create illusions that socialism solves the problems. It doesn't. I lived in a socialist system for 15 years, it was crap, and it got a lot better when the country (Poland) went to a capitalist/free-market system in a very short time.
He is condescending because he needs to feign credibility. I am watching his appearance on Lex Fridman now and it’s just lie after lie after lie with this guy.
So, I haven't heard it all but after having Wolff mention Portugal I, has a portuguese, must intervene. It is needed to say that the major Socialist Party in this country is responsible for the 3 bankruptcies that we've faced in the last 30 years. The IMF came to this country after the global crisis in 2008 because of the shit show that was caused by said Socialist Party. The worst part is that most people here blame the Centre Right Wing party for being responsible for the cuts that were made during our recovery period, since they were the ones who came to power during said crisis. Ironically, they ignore that it was the previous Socialist Party who negotiated the deal with the IMF so, in the end, the Right Wing party gets the blame because it cut government spending on pensioners that are actually the majority of voters.
Socialists have always been good at ruling the country when the pants fit more loosely and money can be spent, but they are a joke when it comes to managing it. At the same time, they impose higher and higher taxes suffocating the majority of businesses. We are not a rich country by Western metrics, we're the 45th richest in the world and 60% of the population lives off of the minimum wage (705$), not because businesses don't want to pay, but because they can't due to the level of taxes. We just don't produce and sell enough to justify the high taxes. Sadly, we will go into recession, our country will need to cut spending, this government will fall and the centre right wing will come along and try to fix the mess that has been caused by the Socialists, who will accuse their rivals of cutting spending and suffocating the public sector while allegating that it was all better with them...
This country has no clear future and is facing high rates of qualified emigration. Nurses, Doctors, Architects, etc...even small business owners prefer to risk emigration in hopes of a better future than to stay here and get a chance at a medium quality of life, being able to survive but not enjoy vacations abroad nor even spending money on some stupid ostentatious whim from time to time, because they can't! This country is good for those who work abroad and live and pay taxes here because the wages are usually much higher so it becomes easy to pay the bills and you don't even need to worry with a 1000$ rent while living alone in the capital or other major city. :|
You don't produce enough guns or weapons like here in the UK that's why your economy is poor oh and the fact that global corporations won't allow you to grow. I don't know about your country but I can comment on the UK who was doing OK until our administration decided we needed a loan from the IMF interestingly the same Chancellor came out and admitted the UK didn't require the loan and he had been mistaken obviously that was after we signed agreements to sell off publicly owned production and utilities. The IMF like the World Bank and more recently the WEF isn't the friend of the people and soon you realise this once it is too late and your existance is dictated by a CBDC. Power corrupts and the idea of capitalism is to ensure power and wealth moves in one direction attracting and consuming any other wealth eventually resulting in a single entity perhaps even autocratic.
I suggest you read brave new world and I would also take a look at the third world where capitalism exports its missery. Yes we can splitt ends and discuss where capital meets society which is what Marx intended with das capital but when all said and done both systems are a risk game but one turns slower and tries to limit its loss / waste admitedly its gains are much lower but they are steady whereas the other is reckless taking larger risks at the detriment of everything, its reckless and in the end suicidal look at all the pollution the oil, plastics and the amount of uneccery arms this I'm sure will become evident pretty soon and like Keynes said were already dead. Yes it's sad but on a more positive note at least we didn't spread the love. Look after yourself
Thank you, I have a partially Portuguese family and I almost had a stroke when Wolff brought up Portugal.
It’s been 8 hours and I’m stilling waiting for Wolff to stop talking....
He now lives in your head.
@@eugkra33 yes I comment one time and he now lives rent free 🙃🙃
Some ppl don’t like to be educated!!!
@@Wow-dc7ll He lives in my head. Whenever I have angry person yelling at me online I imagine his voice for hours now.
@@eugkra33 well if you think about one sentence he said you’re waiting 5 hours to finish
Destiny is just not able to understand Richard
I know! Isn't it sad? It's like an adult trying to explain simple facts to a three-year-old child. Destiny didn't even know that markets and capitalism are two different things. My God.
nah, Wolff is just too condescending and not trying to answer any proper question
@@jedediahjehoshaphat stfu destiny
@@Spartacus_Clips OOOGA BOOGA
@@jedediahjehoshaphat triggered mayo lmao
He is an extreme-rhetorical figurehead that wasn't even willing to pragmatically simplify enough to pin down a definition of socialism.
Sorry too abstract for you.
Why is he so angry and impatient? Within the first 15 minutes of this debate!
You get more impatient with people when you get older. Especially because your beliefs/ideologies are set in stone by his age.
Cos he's not an economist, he's an evangelist.
richard wolff was literally offended that in a scheduled debate destiny would try to debate him.
He is so mad before the debate even starts? wth?
the structure of academic debates is not the same as the typical structure of twitch "debates"
@@PristianoPenaldoSUIIII Should be on the moderator to explain time limits on speaking and also explain that its more a back and forth conversation. Which he did kind of mention and Destiny also brought up, Wolff didn’t seem to catch on
It's just that D was SO wrong SO often. I got frustrated too. Debate is supposed to be honest and built on understood and accepted knowledge.
@@rhythmjones timestamps or we seize your means of commentation
Chat calling Richards parts "unskippable cutscenes" LMAO
😂😂😂😂😂😂
They're all victims of solipsism - their entire lives are spent online so a video game is just as real as an online debate between two real humans. Disturbing.
LMAO thats jokes
@@fuckamericanidiot it's a joke, relax buddy, you're not as smart as you think you are
@@fuckamericanidiot good lord, you actually think you're clever don't you?
This guy gets really angry when he gets a semblance of pushback, his tone and facial expressions are ridiculous.
worker coop can exist in a capitalist system because its free. Your forceful top down socialist system doesn't allow all companies to exist.
The true final boss of the lefty arc
No
chomsky
Finnish person here. I live in a co-op building, and get to vote on matters pertaining to the building such as whether to switch gardening companies or fix the sewer pipes. It is my understanding that all buildings work this way in Finland. Technically some building might be wholly owned by a renting company that then makes those decisions by itself, but majority of buildings will have some private people owning at least some of the apartments and voting on these issues. From Destiny's explanation about his fiance's dad's housing, I get the impression that this is not common in the USA. How does this kind of decision making work there? Or what is the most common arrangement for people owning apartments in an apartment building?
We have a few co ops. Mostly land lords or apartment owners though
"Technically some building might be wholly owned by a renting company that then makes those decisions by itself" Depends on what you mean by apartments. Here apartments means the rental company owns the whole building, so no voting. There's condos where you have more leverage but you'd have to look up condominiums.
in dumb terms, the tenants are the land lord's bitch, and the land lord is the bank's bitch, kinda like feudalism lmao
@@darrenfleming7901 "And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air
Gave proof through the night that feudalism
was still there"
Citizens don't own apartments usually. They pay rent until they die. Few people own a lot of apartments. Some people own a few apartments. Most people in apartments own nothing.
A Spaniard here: co-ops in Spain don't follow Wolff's definition. In the board of directors every vote counts the same and the workers tend to be part of it, but it is not a requirement. You can have many employees working on the company with no vote on the board.
I learned Wolff couldnt define socialism or capitalism... After studying it his whole life. Or that it was so general that they are the same thing.
His entire sad career is predicated on not being able to define what he babbles out, otherwise his stupid would be immediately obvious even to his disciplines, who are not very bright to begin with.
I immensely enjoyed Dr. Wolff attempting to attack Destiny with his eyebrows.
Capitalistic fanatic, get a better argument or a day job.
@@cardcode8345 better argue seriously than personal attacking
@@cardcode8345 It. Was. A. Joke. You. Disingenuous. Commenter.
holy shit why did you do that, now i can't concentrate
Wolff wasn't really polite. He's just old and speaks slowly which gives him a veil of politeness? He was incredibly slithery.
@Peter Kunka He does come off as impolite and was for sure at times. I've watched his lectures and a debate before and he just seems to talk like he is always a little mad. The other thing is he talks very slowly and it sounds like hes being condescending or doing the "I'll slow this down so you can understand me" thing. I'm used to the way he talks but he was worse than usual this time.
Soviet Union out performed Japan? Name one Russian product.
Are you stupid? Making new products doesn’t correlate with economic growth. Japan can make 1000 different kinds of foot rub machines but that doesn’t compare to the insane economic growth of the Soviet Union
Ukrainian grain taken during the Holodomor 💀
AK47
Bullseye! @@rokoi3
Yes listen/read Michael Parenti he has some interesting facts about the Soviet Union.
Convenient how in giving the concept of capitalism specifically having employer-employee contracts, Wolff ignores that the communist/socialist countries have that as well, and leaves out imperialism.
There's a pretty big difference between communism and socialism. In one of them, the government owns everything. In the other, you, the individual own your share of the means of production. Under capitalism, the owner of the corporation you work for owns everything except your private residence, but seeing as how continually less Americans are able to afford a home, even individual homeownership is becoming a thing of the past under capitalism.
weighing in a bit late but yea most people don't realize a fusion is necessary. Weather ppl call themselves or not, for the peoples best interest is socialism and a system that is in the best interest for the individual is capitalism.@@skiddish985
one for all vs all for one.
Do your guys' brains really boil this much whenever someone takes more than 15 seconds to answer a question? Nobody here is bringing up any good points against Wolff and just pretending that Destiny didnt get his beaten black and blue.
It’s easier to follow along when you don’t have to listen to a 20 minute monologue about the history of a movement when someone just asked you to define it.
@@josszarnick2393 Wolff had no choice, Destiny was so ill informed. Dude thought markets and capitalism was the same thing.
The reason Professor Wolff was cutting out so much was because he used up all his bandwidth with those long winded stories
He was trying to give a rich and full answer with different perspectives from various outlooks and countries.
@@joseolivencia8382 I understand that and that's not the problem. The issue is is when you can't formalize it in a concise way.
@John Dennis but the answer will vary in different countries and in different time periods. What we consider the left in America is considered the center elsewhere. Everything exists in relation to other things
@@joseolivencia8382 ...but he was asking for HIS conception of socialism. If I ask you “what does basketball mean to you” I don’t want you to give every possible answer, just tell me what you think.
@@RUclipsMadeMePickHandle we live a country where Joe Biden and Bernie sanders are both called socialist so I think we do need a more in depth look at the term. If we have a government ran industry its called socialist but the police and military are not socialist. There is a lot of confusion or mislabelling going around
1:29:53 time stamp for those who want a single reason socialism is dogshit lmao.
This lecture is a tad heavy. It's nice having Destiny and the moderator provide the odd interlude.
Every time wolf said let me finish I wanted to Videogame myself
Please do?
say it, do it.
Do it
or you could have listened ...
Do it pussy
1:15:15 Lord Richard of House Wolff demands the peasant man with a woman's name: Destiny, to halt his trespasses against his majesty's speech eloquency.
that’s not cute
Capitalism did not come from feudalism it came from early industrialization at the late stage of mercantilism, mercantilism did come from feudalism but you're skipping two steps, and that's very important because a lot of the atrocities of colonial governments were done under a mercantilis system not a capitalist one but it's called capitalism because they are ignorant
Well none of that matters because stating historical facts refute Marxist ideology.
I've never seen someone take so long to say so little of value
Hahaha you just described college and most of his classes.