Please note: This review is based on my early 'first impressions'. However, given the grinder's similarity to the DF64 Gen 2, I am fairly confident that my opinion will remain unchanged with additional use
In my experience with the DF64, the bellows only really work when the grinder is switched on. I get virtually no retention when doing this. I don't know whether it is the same for this grinder.
I think this will change the entry point to an electric grinder for espresso, that can also flip to filter. Really offers so much for the price. The competitive grinder market means we're the winners😀 Nice job Coffee Chronicler!
I'm in the minority but I still think the Fellow Opus is going to be a better grinder than this at the entry level price point. Has built in deionizer, much easier to open and access the burr for cleaning, no need to calibrate the dial if removing and replacing burr, nicer catch cup, much cleaner work flow. I have an opus and it is essentially zero grinds on the counter as long as I do a single water spray.
Does this not have a deionizer? Also one is conical and the other is a flat burr. Not that I can tell the difference in the end product but many people seem to think they can.@@thecomicsarereal
Thanks for sharing this grinder. I like that it's such a small form factor and I wouldn't mind spending more on better burrs if it can yield cups that can rival the larger machines. I think counter space is a finite resource we all can quickly run out of.
I finally bought two DF64 Gen 2 (one for the house and one for the office) and I love them! Zero retention and zero mess. Turin is offering amazing value for the money IMO. I sold my old Mazzer Super Jolly and Nuova Simonelli Grinta.
@@gordonmcintosh1897 I doubt the burrs significantly affect the taste profile. But with the DF64, the coffee retention in the grinder is 0.0 to 0.1 g at most and the process is much cleaner. Fresher grind and less cleaning.
Thanks for the review! I just discovered this product/company and currently have 2 IZpresso manual grinders (JX-Pro and J-Max) which serve as dialed in grinders for pour over and espresso respectively. However, I'm a bit tired of manual grinding and curious if you feel this grinder is "better performing" than the IZpresso manual grinders?
Im actually very happy they made an even cheaper grinder makes the market even more competitive than before. I now have a cheap connical and flat burr recommendations bellow 250 usd
Thanks for reviews as always. Good to see you back again. Hope you got your taste back and all healthy again. I’m thinking the next thing that would be nice to see DF/Turin to come out with in regards to grinders would be a grinder with blind burrs. I really think that might be the next “wave” in grinders/burrs. Also, I’d have to imagine that if they come out with them, it will be the lowest price point option for blind burrs on the market. Could be interesting.
Thanks for the review! It does feel like a disruptor and now I wish I had waited a few months and not gotten my D40+ recently, but I shouldn't complain. ;) What are those glasses you use to drink your pour-over? They look amazing, like a double-walled Pinot Noir wine glass.
Very helpful initial overview. Thank you. I'd love a compare with Ode Gen 2 and/or K-series to know if it's worth getting something like this if you already have a decent handgrinder.
I would love to get a comparison to the DF64 II. If possible it'd be great if you can get your hands on those other 54mm burrs and see if theyre compatible with the DF54. Thanks for the content!
54mm *is* a really interesting burr size, that has one of the greatest burrsets on the market as an option: The Ditting steel burrs used in the vario and forté now put those in here.
Cheap 54mm flat burr grinder reminds me of the Demoka 203 I had a few years ago. Consistency on that one was the worst... Good that the market changed since then and we get to see proper single dose options appear in the sub 250$ price range!
I had no intention of upgrading my ESP but this is a game changer, for me. It is actually cheaper than an ESP and aftermarket single dose hopper with bellows (which in my opinion is needed). That said, glad to see you are doing better. Thank you for sharing and I am looking forward to your thoughts on this one in the future. I think this is a big step for entry level grinders and can't wait to see the trends moving forward.
It's a bit less screechy than the Gen 2. But since it's also a single-dose grinder there's not much material to block the sound, so there will be some noise. Eureka is typically quieter.
Well done review as always. Can you please give info about burr seasoning: was there any need? if you did, 1. how was the result before and after, and 2. the amount of coffee used for seasoning. Thank you!
Eureka Mignon Manuale/Filtro/Chrono can all compete with this grinder. Got my filtro (shipped with espresso-capable flat burrs) for $199. They don't get the love they deserve. Thanks for your vid!
I like Filtro and Eureka, especially for a hopper workflow, but I don't think they are good at making single-dose grinders. The DF54 has a much more holistic UX.
Apparently there are some ditting 54mm "steel" burrs that are interesting for light roasts and high clarity, kind of a mini SSP MP. I would be curious to see a test of this with those burrs as it could be a big value competitor. That combo would be almost half the price of an Ode Gen 2 with SSP MP and cheaper than the Ode Gen 2 with the regular burrs.
Also I guess with the original burrs this grinder is pretty much at Fellow Opus pricing which would be and interesting comparaison to see if Flat vs Conical really makes such a difference when the price is this close.
If you're doing espresso the ODE can't do it, or is not advisable to do it anyway. I have an ODE gen 1 and I like it, but I'm not sure the build quality is nearly as good on Fellows products as the DF series.
I wpuld be really interested how a grinder like the df54 compares to a 1zpresso k-ultra for example tastewise. Especially.considering the pricepoint of the df54.
It probably depends on how wide the fins are of your catch cup. However, the new "rubber insert" gives you a bit more flexibility than the old design. I tested with one my smaller catch cups and it was still able to fit.
I wish I had seen this video a month ago, before I bought a hand grinder that was more expensive than this. I'm very happy with my purchase, but this would have been nice to have for when I'm not in the mood to grind by hand.
@@coffeechronicler thank you! my barista express just broke. i ultimately want a nicer setup but my size and wallet cant have that now. so thinking of doing bambino and a good budget grinder. strictly espresso, i have a nice hand grinder for drip. is this your recommendation, or would it be worth spending an extra hundered or whatever on the grinder to get some more body
Firstly, like most people here, I'd love a DF54/64 comparison (especially espresso based, and blind tasted!), and possibly other options (perhaps SK40, or 1Zpresso hand grinder!). Secondly, every review mentions how this changes what a "beginner" grinder can be, or how good it is for the money. The impression I get though is that it's a very good and capable grinder brewing good tasting coffee full stop, even without taking money into account. Would love to hear your take on that as there's only a few reviews available at the moment and most are clearly very market oriented. This means they really skirt around how diminishing the returns may be when you invest in something significantly more expensive. Even the Niche or DF64 are nearly twice the price, let alone an 83, but I'm not sure for daily use and anything that isn't side-by-side testing even a good palate would feel the need for one over the other, but happy to be told/proven wrong by someone like yourself who's had experience with it!
Honestly makes more expensive grinders quite redundant, unless you’re trying to squeeze out the most optimal espresso possible. But for that you’re paying £500+ minimum and it’s not worth it for such minor improvements
I’m going to buy a used rancilio rocky grinder for 450$ in 2 days and I’m wondering would this df54 give more precision to dial in my grind size with the similar quality build ?
@@coffeechronicler they won’t be available until next month :( and I won’t be able to wait this long ! Is the eureka tradizione a better choice compare to rocky sd ?
12:00 You mentioned that the burrs on DF54 are not drip coffee focused. For someone who only brews drip coffee (primarily V60), do you think the DF54 is still the best electric grinder at this price range ($150 - $250)?
Yes, I think it is. There's not much to choose from in the price range, and it's definitely more enjoyable than the electric high-RPM conicals that used to be the only choice in this price range.
ODE, or even a cheap hand grinder can do the job for V60, I've actually been really enjoying the Timemore C2 and C3 hand grinders, impressed with how good they are for so little $$$.
Following in from my comment below, of course it you have no retention you have no exchange. But failing it you clean the machine before use you can't really tell how much coffee is retained inside if it. Clean the ESP, then use it, with my particular coffee I lose just over 0.7g . I push down fairly hard on the bellows but let them come up slow so as not to suck coffee back into the grinder. This is done with the machine running. After a bit of use the output is equake to the input plus it minus about 0.3g depending on how well I'm blowing the coffee out So I'm guessing the 'exchange' is still not 0.3g to 0.7g ?? Also I made a wooden block to go in the ESP grinder so the dosing cup is within 2mm of the hopper. This helps a lot, some of the difference in weight was simple coffee missing the cup. Your thoughts on retention / exchange please as opposed to the ESP.
Unfortunately, I don't think the Ditting burrs used in Baratza Forte/Vario will work as it looks like the DF motor rotates in the opposite direction. This still looks like a great option for the price! Thanks for the first look, Asser.
I was looking exactly for that information... what a bummer, I just fortified a vario for a friend of mine and when I saw the results and this videos the two concepts just got together
Rewiring the motor can change the spin direction. It's not a big issue, I guess. I know some Eureka grinders are mis-wired and spin in the wrong direction. You can easily fix the problem by rewiring the motor.
The baratza forte BG/vario w(+) burrs should fit and are only $60. The baratza steel flats(on forte BG) are one of my favorites even like it over my zerno with mp burrs especially for filter.
My concern is with the company, they are getting bad reviews for quality assurance, customer service, and reliability for their machines on Amazon. Will they even be around in 24 months?
Yeah it's hard to do an accurate retention test, but even then if you clean the grinder out, afterwards with pretty much ANY grinder the first grind is going to have some coffee missing whether it's just filling in some crevices and will stay there, or end up being exchanged for the next coffee is the real question. I had devised a way of testing actual exchanged retention, and found the Specialita had like 1.5-2g retention but seemed like only 0.8g was actually exchanged. The other 0.8g ish coffee was staying in the chute or wherever. It would come out when you hit the bellows though and it was mostly fines I suspect, so it was better for me to use the specialita and not use the bellows. Seemed to be more consistent with like 18g in 18g out (usually 17.8-18.2ish) without using a bellows on it! I suspect a lot of grinders may be similar. I think ideally you want low retention or at least low exchanged retention without needing to resort to a bellows. It didn't seem like was getting much out using the bellows, which is a great thing. I think DF64 gen2 and DF83 is like that too ( I've only tried the DF83 v1, actually my DF83 IS like that now but I opened up the declumper a bit, retention wasn't too bad previously but now I don't feel I need to use the bellows. It's maybe around 0.3g out if I use the bellows).
Thanks ! I just ordered the k ultra. I mostly drink pour over/hario switch with the occasional espressos. Was wondering if I should return it for this. Thinking that would be a downgrade.
I looked to buy this grinder, but there is a massive uplift in the price once you pay shipping to the UK, import duty and vat. It ends up being about £240. The cost, but mainly the need to replace my broken grinder before the DF54 was available meant I bought a Baratza Encore ESP, and some bellows to help reduce retention, total £175. Now have a grinder I did some tests, I think hold true for any grinder. Clean then use the grinder and you reach a state approximate equilibrium where some of the new coffee put in displaces about the same amount of old coffee that is left in the grinder. This means what I would call 'exchange' is possibly as important or mote important than 'retention'
I wonder if the sk40 wasn’t selling like they hoped. This grinder at this price is bananas. They made the base mignons, baratza esp, opus, varia all irrelevant.
Thank god i waited with the purchase of a grinder so even i can afford now a more proper espresso grinder. Like in every hobby i believe this unit is standing right at the cliff of diminishing returns.
Doesn’t the motor rotate in the wrong direction for Ditting? Is there a hack or mod to still swap them in? I’ve heard the Ditting are really incredible.
These Chinese grinders, their quality and price point, is also reflected in the photography industry. One example is Viltrox, a Chinese company producing almost high end lenses with a quality build at a fraction of a cost to the OEM lens. I have a Viltrox autofocus lens, metal build, USB port for software upgrades, quality lens construction that I purchased for roughly $400 and the Fujifilm equivalent sells for roughly $1000. Is the Fujifilm lens better? Yes but it is only better by a smidgeon, the cost the Fuji lens does not reflect a leap in quality at the higher price point. This development from China is great for budget challenged folks. I suspect this DF 54 grinder will keep 95 % of home espresso brewers happy.
I've been using the Encore ESP for 2 months now and twice a day everyday I receive 0 retention using simple RDT and one bellows pump while motor is still on.
The DF64 Gen2 is also getting the Metal button now I hear. I didn't think the lid is that ugly, but if you already have a DF83 or DF64gen2 with a walnut coloured wood lid, it's going to stand out. Most people have hex keys don't they? I don't think it's a real 'issue'. Seems a bit slow (I'm used to the DF83, which is super fast) but not so loud! I think you're rigtht about the plastic cup adding to the static issue, but it didn't look too bad. I did notice as well with other grinders at least, using the original DF64 plastic cup (same as the DF54's) I'd have more static, when I switched to a metal cup it was a lot better. You could also actually buy the metal cup on it's own I believe. I guess they really wanted to keep the costs down on this one! Ohh so this one doesn't come with a funnel!? I think You'd want a funnel for espresso or just use the dosing cup, otherwise you're going to have a mess.
Yes, I'm a bit spoiled. For the money, it's hard to expect better than this. Plus, a lot of the Df64 accessories will fit, so should be easy to upgrade.
To reduce retension: my experienxe is to hit the below with my nuckles for more airspeed and while the mill is still running. To reduce spill: use 1-2 spritz of water on the beans. Also a metal dosing cup seems less charged with static in my experience
I think i was expecting a 54mm df grinder to be fair. I have gotten into high clarity coffee and unimodal distribution recently and have missed some acidity and body from my coffee. So, maybe, I don't need as unimodal distribution as I can get from a 64mm, and for espresso I think is also enough. So for me, the price tag seems really appealing
The only thing holding people back from buying this would be a lack of SSP options. That being said, it is likely to be the best starter grinder going forward if it can maintain this price, and the quantity of units sold may entice SSP to make their line in a 54 mm size. If they do, top tier coffee experiences will be far more accessable to the average user, which will be revolutionary for the scene.
@2006mumu you should care. As it goes with every hobby, at some point you're going to want to upgrade. It's better to think ahead now and consider if a grinder offers you that upgrade at a decent price. SSP would make it pretty much end game for home users, and they can probably get 54mm SSP burrs for cheaper than their 64mm varients, which is huge savings on that upgrade.
Background info: The manufacturer of DF grinders is Ningbo Frigga. Turin is a trade brand of espresso outlet. There grinders would be sold under different names by different distributors. (Non-grimder products sold under the Turin brand such as the Turin Legato aren't made by Ningbo Frigga)
@@ScepticMatt That's right, I forgot about that. Thanks Matt. Do you know who designed ( or put together a compilation of other's IP :D ) all these Ningbo Friggas?
@@JusBThankful Ningbo designs the grinders themselves, but they work together with and take feedback from their distributors such as espresso outlet (they also sell factory direct, but I'd worry about support and warranty)
@@ScepticMatt I'm surprised their business model has been successful as it has been, which I wonder is due more to social media influencers than capacity capability or the business model itself.
I'm in the minority but I still think the Fellow Opus is going to be a better grinder than this at the entry level price point. Has built in deionizer, much easier to open and access the burr for cleaning, no need to calibrate the dial if removing and replacing burr, nicer catch cup, much cleaner work flow. I have an opus and it is essentially zero grinds on the counter as long as I do a single water spray.
Yeah, more accessible in my country aswell. I was able to get an Opus for less than 160$ brand new from a big reseller in Sweden while I would have to pay insane import taxes etc for this
It's also a cheap grinder that can do espresso and pour over pretty decently from what I hear, so nothing to worry about. Plastic body doesn't worry me as long as the important parts are tough (whether that's the case or not with the Opus, I don't know).
Thanks for taking the time to reply, much appreciated. I'm interested in this grinder as I swap between caffeinated and decaf beans and want a grinder with minimum cross contamination. I know to expect some, I just want to minimise it. Is there a better term or measure I should be considering?
No problem. Look to manual grinders and electricals with no real chute to speak of (for example the ones in my most recent review) If the grinds chamber is neat and you don't have a chute, then you just need to minimize static electrictiy, and then exchanged retention will be minimal.
I'm know to this, so probably my comment is rubbish. But don't you need to clean the grinder before measuring retention or you will be getting retained grinds from the last batch of beans and your measurement is then meaningless?
There will always be some areas where grounds get stuck in a clean grinder, for example the screw holes of the burrs. After these spaces are filled, the retention remains quite constant. So it's a more useful metric for daily use to see how much is retained and exchanged after using the bellows. You could call it "practical retention/exchange" and "dead space/true" retention.
It is a bit slow. Lelit "Fred" (PL043) is _the_ absolute market leader in value - the measuring stick - and it grinds roughly at 1g/s, at least for espresso grind. So in terms of value, DF54 is that 230 or so, and Fred is about the same on the market (more overseas in US)... it is not a real "disruption".
Fred has a small conical burr and is designed for hopper dosing. It's a traditional espresso grinder and definitely not a modern multipurpose single-dose option like this is. You have options like the Baratza Encore ESP and Breville Smart Grinder in the same price range as Fred (and its twins from Ascaso and Iberital). The disruption part in the title refers to the price level flat burr grinders have been sold at historically.
I'd be hesitant to buy a Chinese grinder, especially when they keep updating models every 6 months. But at that price, it's almost cheap enough to just take a chance and then throw it away when it starts having issues.
@@christopher6895 That is not the point. It's a me too design and copied cheap. Hence ZERO disruptive. That being said, my Kafatek Monolith is designed and made in Seattle USA. And the OG "disruptive" grinder was the Versalab. Also designed and made in the US. Oh and let's not forget the Pharos grinder, also US. Shall I keep going?
Dude I like your videos but your accent is so hard to understand. I don’t know if you need a better microphone or what but I can’t even understand half of what you say
Please note: This review is based on my early 'first impressions'. However, given the grinder's similarity to the DF64 Gen 2, I am fairly confident that my opinion will remain unchanged with additional use
In my experience with the DF64, the bellows only really work when the grinder is switched on. I get virtually no retention when doing this. I don't know whether it is the same for this grinder.
Is there travel in the grind when you go from drip to espresso? Can you dial from 15 to 60 and back again accurately?
I think this will change the entry point to an electric grinder for espresso, that can also flip to filter. Really offers so much for the price. The competitive grinder market means we're the winners😀 Nice job Coffee Chronicler!
Thanks Jack!
I'm in the minority but I still think the Fellow Opus is going to be a better grinder than this at the entry level price point. Has built in deionizer, much easier to open and access the burr for cleaning, no need to calibrate the dial if removing and replacing burr, nicer catch cup, much cleaner work flow. I have an opus and it is essentially zero grinds on the counter as long as I do a single water spray.
Does this not have a deionizer? Also one is conical and the other is a flat burr. Not that I can tell the difference in the end product but many people seem to think they can.@@thecomicsarereal
It’s a conical burr though, different flavor profile for sure
Really enjoyed your review of this. Thanks.
Thank you for the quality content, im still using your grind size database.
Thanks for sharing this grinder. I like that it's such a small form factor and I wouldn't mind spending more on better burrs if it can yield cups that can rival the larger machines. I think counter space is a finite resource we all can quickly run out of.
Hey! Great video! Would you recommend this over a K-Ultra purely on coffee taste and grind performance for both Aeropress/Pourover and Espresso?
I finally bought two DF64 Gen 2 (one for the house and one for the office) and I love them! Zero retention and zero mess. Turin is offering amazing value for the money IMO. I sold my old Mazzer Super Jolly and Nuova Simonelli Grinta.
I have the SJ as well and wonder if the DF64 gives any taste improvement and how the speed compares to the SJ?
@@gordonmcintosh1897 I doubt the burrs significantly affect the taste profile. But with the DF64, the coffee retention in the grinder is 0.0 to 0.1 g at most and the process is much cleaner. Fresher grind and less cleaning.
Thanks for the review! I just discovered this product/company and currently have 2 IZpresso manual grinders (JX-Pro and J-Max) which serve as dialed in grinders for pour over and espresso respectively. However, I'm a bit tired of manual grinding and curious if you feel this grinder is "better performing" than the IZpresso manual grinders?
Im actually very happy they made an even cheaper grinder makes the market even more competitive than before. I now have a cheap connical and flat burr recommendations bellow 250 usd
I only have a breville smart pro, would this be a big step up for espresso pours?
Thanks for reviews as always. Good to see you back again. Hope you got your taste back and all healthy again.
I’m thinking the next thing that would be nice to see DF/Turin to come out with in regards to grinders would be a grinder with blind burrs. I really think that might be the next “wave” in grinders/burrs. Also, I’d have to imagine that if they come out with them, it will be the lowest price point option for blind burrs on the market. Could be interesting.
Thanks Brent! Yes, my senses are back again. Agree, about the blind burrs. I wouldn't be surprised if it arrived soon.
Thanks for the review! It does feel like a disruptor and now I wish I had waited a few months and not gotten my D40+ recently, but I shouldn't complain. ;) What are those glasses you use to drink your pour-over? They look amazing, like a double-walled Pinot Noir wine glass.
Very helpful initial overview. Thank you. I'd love a compare with Ode Gen 2 and/or K-series to know if it's worth getting something like this if you already have a decent handgrinder.
Thank you for the first look, hope your sense of taste is back.
It is, luckily ;) Thanks!
I would love to get a comparison to the DF64 II. If possible it'd be great if you can get your hands on those other 54mm burrs and see if theyre compatible with the DF54. Thanks for the content!
54mm *is* a really interesting burr size, that has one of the greatest burrsets on the market as an option: The Ditting steel burrs used in the vario and forté
now put those in here.
Cheap 54mm flat burr grinder reminds me of the Demoka 203 I had a few years ago. Consistency on that one was the worst... Good that the market changed since then and we get to see proper single dose options appear in the sub 250$ price range!
I had no intention of upgrading my ESP but this is a game changer, for me. It is actually cheaper than an ESP and aftermarket single dose hopper with bellows (which in my opinion is needed).
That said, glad to see you are doing better. Thank you for sharing and I am looking forward to your thoughts on this one in the future. I think this is a big step for entry level grinders and can't wait to see the trends moving forward.
Thanks for the kind words! Yes, ESP looks less attractive now...
I can't remember them atm but there are a few well regarded burrs at this size, isn't there? It's at the sort of price where that's an option
Thank you, great video! How loud is it? I have a Sette 270 and am looking to go flat burr and quieter.
It's somewhere in-between. But definitely less noisy than the Sette :)
I would watch a comparison to DF64 Gen 2 with pleasure.
Thanks, that's great to hear!
@@coffeechronicler I think MANY of us would, especially with a blind tasting!
Comparison with X54 and Vario would be interesting. Different prices, same burr sizes.
Thanks for this. How is the noise level compared to the DF64 V2, which I've heard is very loud, or a quieter grinder like the Mignon Specialita?
It's a bit less screechy than the Gen 2. But since it's also a single-dose grinder there's not much material to block the sound, so there will be some noise. Eureka is typically quieter.
Curious how it compares with the K-ultra for espresso at a similar price.
Would love to see a head to head comparison between this and the SK40 grinder
Also Eureka Manuale! (Never really talked about in the us, but it's pretty much a regular eureka flat bur grinder for about 250€)
Well done review as always. Can you please give info about burr seasoning: was there any need? if you did, 1. how was the result before and after, and 2. the amount of coffee used for seasoning. Thank you!
Thanks. I ran about a kilo through it. But not a big difference before and after.
Eureka Mignon Manuale/Filtro/Chrono can all compete with this grinder. Got my filtro (shipped with espresso-capable flat burrs) for $199. They don't get the love they deserve. Thanks for your vid!
I like Filtro and Eureka, especially for a hopper workflow, but I don't think they are good at making single-dose grinders. The DF54 has a much more holistic UX.
Thanks for the first impression. Can I please ask for a comparison to the Fellow Ode 2 and Timemore 64 as they seem closest price wise.
Will probably do that in the future
Does it auto turn off or no?
Apparently there are some ditting 54mm "steel" burrs that are interesting for light roasts and high clarity, kind of a mini SSP MP. I would be curious to see a test of this with those burrs as it could be a big value competitor. That combo would be almost half the price of an Ode Gen 2 with SSP MP and cheaper than the Ode Gen 2 with the regular burrs.
Also I guess with the original burrs this grinder is pretty much at Fellow Opus pricing which would be and interesting comparaison to see if Flat vs Conical really makes such a difference when the price is this close.
Great video, do you know if there are any blind burrs available for this grinder?
Not currently
I would love a comparison of this, the DF64 Gen 2, and the Timemore 064s! So hard to decide
Thanks for the review, Asser. Did you say it comes with a plasma generator? I'd like to see it compared to the Ode Gen2.
Yes, same tech as DF64 Gen 2.
@@coffeechronicler - that's big. Especially for that price!
If you're doing espresso the ODE can't do it, or is not advisable to do it anyway. I have an ODE gen 1 and I like it, but I'm not sure the build quality is nearly as good on Fellows products as the DF series.
7:30 Should you not use the bellows while the grinder is running? That makes a world of difference with my grinder, at least.
Tusind tak for en god video! Ved du, hvor man kan købe den, hvis man bor i Danmark?
Mener der er en forhandler i Belgien, så mon ikke de snart får den.
I wpuld be really interested how a grinder like the df54 compares to a 1zpresso k-ultra for example tastewise. Especially.considering the pricepoint of the df54.
DF54 is much better for espresso. K Ultra is better for drip.
Are these burrs from ditting? Like X54 or Baratza Forte?
No. Made in China, but the quality is perfect.
I would love to see how it stacks up to the Baratza Encore ESP 🙏
Its way batter
I hope you are planning more videos about the DF54. I would prefer future videos to be based on a production model of the DF54.
They are shipping!!
Maybe I missed it but will it hold a 54mm dosing cup? From what I've read it only come with a 58mm dosing cup.
It probably depends on how wide the fins are of your catch cup. However, the new "rubber insert" gives you a bit more flexibility than the old design. I tested with one my smaller catch cups and it was still able to fit.
I’m just waiting for the DF80 or a DF100 so I can do proper lab sweet or big 98mm burrs 😅
I wish I had seen this video a month ago, before I bought a hand grinder that was more expensive than this. I'm very happy with my purchase, but this would have been nice to have for when I'm not in the mood to grind by hand.
How would this work for milk based espresso drinks? Compared to let's say a timemore 64s or niche
You get a bit more body with those grinders, but overall not that much difference with milk
@@coffeechronicler thank you! my barista express just broke. i ultimately want a nicer setup but my size and wallet cant have that now. so thinking of doing bambino and a good budget grinder. strictly espresso, i have a nice hand grinder for drip. is this your recommendation, or would it be worth spending an extra hundered or whatever on the grinder to get some more body
Firstly, like most people here, I'd love a DF54/64 comparison (especially espresso based, and blind tasted!), and possibly other options (perhaps SK40, or 1Zpresso hand grinder!).
Secondly, every review mentions how this changes what a "beginner" grinder can be, or how good it is for the money. The impression I get though is that it's a very good and capable grinder brewing good tasting coffee full stop, even without taking money into account. Would love to hear your take on that as there's only a few reviews available at the moment and most are clearly very market oriented. This means they really skirt around how diminishing the returns may be when you invest in something significantly more expensive.
Even the Niche or DF64 are nearly twice the price, let alone an 83, but I'm not sure for daily use and anything that isn't side-by-side testing even a good palate would feel the need for one over the other, but happy to be told/proven wrong by someone like yourself who's had experience with it!
Honestly makes more expensive grinders quite redundant, unless you’re trying to squeeze out the most optimal espresso possible. But for that you’re paying £500+ minimum and it’s not worth it for such minor improvements
Please do a comparison to the SD40/SK40 thank you and great vid!
This!
I’m going to buy a used rancilio rocky grinder for 450$ in 2 days and I’m wondering would this df54 give more precision to dial in my grind size with the similar quality build ?
Yes. It's a much more modern grinder and better value.
@@coffeechronicler they won’t be available until next month :( and I won’t be able to wait this long ! Is the eureka tradizione a better choice compare to rocky sd ?
12:00 You mentioned that the burrs on DF54 are not drip coffee focused.
For someone who only brews drip coffee (primarily V60), do you think the DF54 is still the best electric grinder at this price range ($150 - $250)?
Yes, I think it is. There's not much to choose from in the price range, and it's definitely more enjoyable than the electric high-RPM conicals that used to be the only choice in this price range.
ODE, or even a cheap hand grinder can do the job for V60, I've actually been really enjoying the Timemore C2 and C3 hand grinders, impressed with how good they are for so little $$$.
@@coffeechronicler thanks for sharing your opinion. Love your informative videos and nerdy blogs. 🤣
Tempted to upgrade from a Solis Scala zero static.
What is that sound @ 9:22 ...
This certainly looks interesting. I’ve been using the Wilfa Uniform for a couple of years. And a comparison would be appreciated? Love and peace. Tim
Thanks Tim. In my opinion, it's a better overall package, than the Wilfa. Especially, for espresso.
Thank you. Love and peace. Tim
Endnu en god video! Tak!
Nice vid, could you compare it to X54 and Specialita thankyou
Better than Specialita. I just tested it.
Following in from my comment below, of course it you have no retention you have no exchange.
But failing it you clean the machine before use you can't really tell how much coffee is retained inside if it.
Clean the ESP, then use it, with my particular coffee I lose just over 0.7g . I push down fairly hard on the bellows but let them come up slow so as not to suck coffee back into the grinder. This is done with the machine running.
After a bit of use the output is equake to the input plus it minus about 0.3g depending on how well I'm blowing the coffee out
So I'm guessing the 'exchange' is still not 0.3g to 0.7g ??
Also I made a wooden block to go in the ESP grinder so the dosing cup is within 2mm of the hopper. This helps a lot, some of the difference in weight was simple coffee missing the cup.
Your thoughts on retention / exchange please as opposed to the ESP.
This vs Varia VS3 Gen 2 is the question!
Unfortunately, I don't think the Ditting burrs used in Baratza Forte/Vario will work as it looks like the DF motor rotates in the opposite direction.
This still looks like a great option for the price! Thanks for the first look, Asser.
I was looking exactly for that information... what a bummer, I just fortified a vario for a friend of mine and when I saw the results and this videos the two concepts just got together
$229 ????
That's an actual steal. I'm going to have to sell my breville smart grinder pro now
I think some of the other 54mm burrs actually won’t work here cuz the teeth are cut in the other direction so the grinder spins the “wrong” way.
Rewiring the motor can change the spin direction. It's not a big issue, I guess. I know some Eureka grinders are mis-wired and spin in the wrong direction. You can easily fix the problem by rewiring the motor.
Very interesting for myself I’ve been using the Wilfa Uniform grinder for a couple of years. A Grinder to compare? Love and peace. Tim
The baratza forte BG/vario w(+) burrs should fit and are only $60. The baratza steel flats(on forte BG) are one of my favorites even like it over my zerno with mp burrs especially for filter.
I’m really curious to see if anyone’s actually tried this yet
How does this espresso grinder work for drip?
Surprisingly good. Better than most in this price class.
@@coffeechronicler good to know as I was considering a Fellow Ode Gen 2, but sounds like this will save $’s
My concern is with the company, they are getting bad reviews for quality assurance, customer service, and reliability for their machines on Amazon. Will they even be around in 24 months?
Is this the same as the Lagom P64?
lol nope. The P64 is made by Option-O and it's 64mm, variable RPM, Brushless DC Motor, no bellows.
Mine shipped two days ago.
To measure retention, first clean out the grind chamber. Otherwise you are measuring old grinds (grind exchange)
Yeah it's hard to do an accurate retention test, but even then if you clean the grinder out, afterwards with pretty much ANY grinder the first grind is going to have some coffee missing whether it's just filling in some crevices and will stay there, or end up being exchanged for the next coffee is the real question. I had devised a way of testing actual exchanged retention, and found the Specialita had like 1.5-2g retention but seemed like only 0.8g was actually exchanged. The other 0.8g ish coffee was staying in the chute or wherever. It would come out when you hit the bellows though and it was mostly fines I suspect, so it was better for me to use the specialita and not use the bellows. Seemed to be more consistent with like 18g in 18g out (usually 17.8-18.2ish) without using a bellows on it! I suspect a lot of grinders may be similar. I think ideally you want low retention or at least low exchanged retention without needing to resort to a bellows. It didn't seem like was getting much out using the bellows, which is a great thing. I think DF64 gen2 and DF83 is like that too ( I've only tried the DF83 v1, actually my DF83 IS like that now but I opened up the declumper a bit, retention wasn't too bad previously but now I don't feel I need to use the bellows. It's maybe around 0.3g out if I use the bellows).
Curious if this will push the 64 version up in price in future iterations
Also curious if we'll see a V version with DC motor
This or K ultra ? Would you expect much of a difference ?
Ultra for filter, tied for espresso, imo
Thanks ! I just ordered the k ultra. I mostly drink pour over/hario switch with the occasional espressos. Was wondering if I should return it for this. Thinking that would be a downgrade.
@@elietremblay3859 Ultra will be better for sure. I'd grind at 7 for a pour over and 5.5 for a switch.
@@MandragaraI'll try that for sure ! Cheers !
I'd have to do some more side by side testing. But I was surprised at how good the drip coffee came out.
I looked to buy this grinder, but there is a massive uplift in the price once you pay shipping to the UK, import duty and vat. It ends up being about £240.
The cost, but mainly the need to replace my broken grinder before the DF54 was available meant I bought a Baratza Encore ESP, and some bellows to help reduce retention, total £175.
Now have a grinder I did some tests, I think hold true for any grinder. Clean then use the grinder and you reach a state approximate equilibrium where some of the new coffee put in displaces about the same amount of old coffee that is left in the grinder.
This means what I would call 'exchange' is possibly as important or mote important than 'retention'
DF 64 Gen 2 comparison pls :)
I'm already trying to convince myself not to splurge on the 64 gen 2, this 54 just makes it even harder lol.
I wonder if the sk40 wasn’t selling like they hoped. This grinder at this price is bananas. They made the base mignons, baratza esp, opus, varia all irrelevant.
Is this stepped or stepless? How many microns if stepped?
If it's anything like the other DF grinders (which I suspect), it's stepless.
I think pretty much all the DF grinders are stepless, not sure about the SK40 which was... different.
Thank god i waited with the purchase of a grinder so even i can afford now a more proper espresso grinder. Like in every hobby i believe this unit is standing right at the cliff of diminishing returns.
Doesn’t the motor rotate in the wrong direction for Ditting? Is there a hack or mod to still swap them in? I’ve heard the Ditting are really incredible.
Yes, on closer inspection, it looks like that. Unfortunately :(
Would be trivial to swap the polarity on the motor wires and spin it the other way (most likely).
From the side, that device looks like an Easter Island dude holding a cup.
These Chinese grinders, their quality and price point, is also reflected in the photography industry. One example is Viltrox, a Chinese company producing almost high end lenses with a quality build at a fraction of a cost to the OEM lens. I have a Viltrox autofocus lens, metal build, USB port for software upgrades, quality lens construction that I purchased for roughly $400 and the Fujifilm equivalent sells for roughly $1000. Is the Fujifilm lens better? Yes but it is only better by a smidgeon, the cost the Fuji lens does not reflect a leap in quality at the higher price point. This development from China is great for budget challenged folks. I suspect this DF 54 grinder will keep 95 % of home espresso brewers happy.
I just bought a SK-40, but I would rather have this for pour over
I've been using the Encore ESP for 2 months now and twice a day everyday I receive 0 retention using simple RDT and one bellows pump while motor is still on.
Same.
But supposedly the bigger burrs give better tasting light roasts?
@brandoncostner7437 the encore is solid, but from motor to the flat burrs to the build this is way better
@@nhayes927 will I taste any difference with my bambino plus tho? 😂
Maybe once I get my andreja quickmill setup
I would think that a coffee grinder review would feature an actual ground size test. The Brewler costs $15, and there's plenty of other options.
Literally creating a new category of entry level high end multi purpose grinder. This is going to be the "new Niche Zero"
Guess it will get even better once a good view kilo’s have been ground through it. I’ve just ordered the DF64, think I would have bought this 54.
Why?
@@linstein5903 from this and other videos it does the same quality grind, it’s smaller, it’s cheaper, so why not!
I wonder if this is going to force other companies to bring down the price of their flatburr grinders to compete with this one.
I wonder how this would compare to 1ZPresso J-Ultra for espresso? The DF54 is only $30USD more, but the J-Ultra is more espresso focused, of course.
Conical vs flar and this will be far more consistent
J-max vs df54 for traditional espresso. I’d like to see a side by side
@m4cu53r df 54 would be better hands down
The DF64 Gen2 is also getting the Metal button now I hear.
I didn't think the lid is that ugly, but if you already have a DF83 or DF64gen2 with a walnut coloured wood lid, it's going to stand out.
Most people have hex keys don't they? I don't think it's a real 'issue'.
Seems a bit slow (I'm used to the DF83, which is super fast) but not so loud!
I think you're rigtht about the plastic cup adding to the static issue, but it didn't look too bad. I did notice as well with other grinders at least, using the original DF64 plastic cup (same as the DF54's) I'd have more static, when I switched to a metal cup it was a lot better. You could also actually buy the metal cup on it's own I believe. I guess they really wanted to keep the costs down on this one!
Ohh so this one doesn't come with a funnel!? I think You'd want a funnel for espresso or just use the dosing cup, otherwise you're going to have a mess.
Yes, I'm a bit spoiled. For the money, it's hard to expect better than this. Plus, a lot of the Df64 accessories will fit, so should be easy to upgrade.
To reduce retension: my experienxe is to hit the below with my nuckles for more airspeed and while the mill is still running.
To reduce spill: use 1-2 spritz of water on the beans. Also a metal dosing cup seems less charged with static in my experience
I think i was expecting a 54mm df grinder to be fair.
I have gotten into high clarity coffee and unimodal distribution recently and have missed some acidity and body from my coffee. So, maybe, I don't need as unimodal distribution as I can get from a 64mm, and for espresso I think is also enough. So for me, the price tag seems really appealing
The only thing holding people back from buying this would be a lack of SSP options. That being said, it is likely to be the best starter grinder going forward if it can maintain this price, and the quantity of units sold may entice SSP to make their line in a 54 mm size. If they do, top tier coffee experiences will be far more accessable to the average user, which will be revolutionary for the scene.
For us beginner, we dont even care about ssp burr, lol, atleast we have a decent espresso.
@2006mumu you should care. As it goes with every hobby, at some point you're going to want to upgrade. It's better to think ahead now and consider if a grinder offers you that upgrade at a decent price. SSP would make it pretty much end game for home users, and they can probably get 54mm SSP burrs for cheaper than their 64mm varients, which is huge savings on that upgrade.
Turin is the Hyundai of home coffee enthusiast community.
Background info: The manufacturer of DF grinders is Ningbo Frigga. Turin is a trade brand of espresso outlet. There grinders would be sold under different names by different distributors.
(Non-grimder products sold under the Turin brand such as the Turin Legato aren't made by Ningbo Frigga)
@@ScepticMatt That's right, I forgot about that. Thanks Matt. Do you know who designed ( or put together a compilation of other's IP :D ) all these Ningbo Friggas?
@@JusBThankful Ningbo designs the grinders themselves, but they work together with and take feedback from their distributors such as espresso outlet (they also sell factory direct, but I'd worry about support and warranty)
@@ScepticMatt I'm surprised their business model has been successful as it has been, which I wonder is due more to social media influencers than capacity capability or the business model itself.
I'm in the minority but I still think the Fellow Opus is going to be a better grinder than this at the entry level price point. Has built in deionizer, much easier to open and access the burr for cleaning, no need to calibrate the dial if removing and replacing burr, nicer catch cup, much cleaner work flow. I have an opus and it is essentially zero grinds on the counter as long as I do a single water spray.
Yeah, more accessible in my country aswell. I was able to get an Opus for less than 160$ brand new from a big reseller in Sweden while I would have to pay insane import taxes etc for this
People who just purchased opus must be punching the air right now
It's also a cheap grinder that can do espresso and pour over pretty decently from what I hear, so nothing to worry about. Plastic body doesn't worry me as long as the important parts are tough (whether that's the case or not with the Opus, I don't know).
So tiny and cute :D
Too much for me, I’ll stick with my nespresso virtuo 👍😅
Thanks for taking the time to reply, much appreciated.
I'm interested in this grinder as I swap between caffeinated and decaf beans and want a grinder with minimum cross contamination. I know to expect some, I just want to minimise it. Is there a better term or measure I should be considering?
No problem. Look to manual grinders and electricals with no real chute to speak of (for example the ones in my most recent review) If the grinds chamber is neat and you don't have a chute, then you just need to minimize static electrictiy, and then exchanged retention will be minimal.
I'm know to this, so probably my comment is rubbish. But don't you need to clean the grinder before measuring retention or you will be getting retained grinds from the last batch of beans and your measurement is then meaningless?
There will always be some areas where grounds get stuck in a clean grinder, for example the screw holes of the burrs. After these spaces are filled, the retention remains quite constant. So it's a more useful metric for daily use to see how much is retained and exchanged after using the bellows. You could call it "practical retention/exchange" and "dead space/true" retention.
Are you Norwegian
It is a bit slow. Lelit "Fred" (PL043) is _the_ absolute market leader in value - the measuring stick - and it grinds roughly at 1g/s, at least for espresso grind. So in terms of value, DF54 is that 230 or so, and Fred is about the same on the market (more overseas in US)... it is not a real "disruption".
Fred has a small conical burr and is designed for hopper dosing. It's a traditional espresso grinder and definitely not a modern multipurpose single-dose option like this is. You have options like the Baratza Encore ESP and Breville Smart Grinder in the same price range as Fred (and its twins from Ascaso and Iberital). The disruption part in the title refers to the price level flat burr grinders have been sold at historically.
I'd be hesitant to buy a Chinese grinder, especially when they keep updating models every 6 months. But at that price, it's almost cheap enough to just take a chance and then throw it away when it starts having issues.
One main problem, its bloody loud!!
So what is disruptive here? Copies recent high-end grinder designs and is sold cheap since made in China... Oldest trick in the book IMO
You’re aware they almost all come from china anyways right?
@@christopher6895 That is not the point. It's a me too design and copied cheap. Hence ZERO disruptive. That being said, my Kafatek Monolith is designed and made in Seattle USA. And the OG "disruptive" grinder was the Versalab. Also designed and made in the US. Oh and let's not forget the Pharos grinder, also US. Shall I keep going?
I will never purchase a single dose grinder! Hard pass
Dude I like your videos but your accent is so hard to understand. I don’t know if you need a better microphone or what but I can’t even understand half of what you say
Maybe your speakers are bad, I heard every word he said clear as a bell.