You have new e-mags that are putting out a LOT more voltage. If your wires aren't in perfect shape, you could be getting spark leakage to ground somewhere through failing wire insulation. The old mag, with lower output, still works fine, but the new mag, with 70KV potential, can just zap right through that wire's insulation and cause the mag drop.
@@hadleymanmusic The original magnetos don't use any power at all - they generate their own spark using magnets and coils, they're entirely mechanical. Only the new electronic mags require an outside power source, and he fused them correctly with the 10 amp fuse.
First thing I thought too when he pulled off the hood and took a shot of the engine..."Man, that thing could use some new wires". I'm assuming automotive and aviation spark plug wires are similar....the first one shown has a hell of a bend going to the plug. Would expect a lot bigger bend radius. Electrical tech for 15 years, Mech. Engineer for 10 years...wrenching on things that spin since I could hold a wrench.
New mags prolly output way more juice than the old one, he can have bad wiring insulation and it results in leak to the ground with new ones but not the old one
It might have something to do when he was unpackaging opening up the box and dropped on the ground when the table collapsed on it and that meg got damaged or might be something inside were the leads the spark plug wires connect to go out to the cylinders does a spark plugs on the inside maybe there’s a short to ground on one of the cylinders inside that magneto were working except for spark plug
man I just love your videos. when I am feeling homesick or just not feeling right, I put on some of your videos, and before I know it I feel better again. It really helps. It's like something familiar to me or perhaps it just reminds me of my recently departed Dad. I miss him so much. We did everything together. He was such a great man, taken from us quickly and unexpectedly. Life is not always fair, but intelligence is the ability to adapt. Anyway, thanks again for your content, I sure hope to meet you one day Jimmy. Your my kinda guy... Your legendary my friend. Legendary!
You will not see any improvement without spark advance (unless, of course you have a "weak mag"). Surefly has the spark advance option; Lycoming uses traditional fixed timing. As you know, the Lycoming mag is made by Surefly to Lycoming specs. I recommend cutting your losses and replacing the impulse coupled mag with a Surefly and keep the other mag. In my case I saw about a 12% boost in power with a single Surefly configured with spark advance. Think about it ... the voltage delivered to the plugs is the breakdown voltage, not the "70,000 volts" that is possible. Spark plug gaps usually break around 30,000 volts. The fact that your engine was running great before shows you that the ignition wires and the plugs are good. You'll be chasing your ass if you start changing parts. Adding a second electronic mag has minimal impact because the Surefly mag will start the advance ignition process and the second tradition mag fills in. The "advanced timing" spark energy delivered by the Surefly mag is what does the trick. Adding a second Surefly complicates matters and is not as safe. Once you get a single Surefly mag running smoothly, my other recommendations would be fine wire Tempest plugs (not Champion) and New Horizons ignition harness.
About as cut and dry as you can get! Very nice conclusion and thoroughly explained the reasoning behind said conclusion!! 👍👏 Well done sir. Hope Jimmy sees it, and follow through!
Since you went for the expense to replace the mags I would be inclined to replace wires and plugs at the same time just to ensure you are getting maximum from your e-mag. Cool stuff - thx!
Yes, at every annual I used to replace the plugs in my Bonanza. Back then a new set of 12 were under $100. We pulled them to inspect and compression check anyway. There used to be some very nice engine analyzers made by Sperry to help isolate engine problems on large recips. Something like that may be available now for smaller engines. You could spot a failing cylinder instantly and quickly determine if it was ignition or something mechanical.
Jim, you have two complete ignitions. One firing the top plugs (or half of them and half the bottom) and the other firing the other half. Make sure you know which system is being powered in which switch position. Remove the lower cowl, clean and check the plugs. When you test run positively identify which cylinder is at fault and correct it. 😊
Those mags are made by surefly. When I installed mine I had all kinds of running bad. What it turned out to be (for me) was the wires going into the cap were wrong. I had to re position the wires to the correct firing order. Best of luck. Darryl
I agree with some of the comments below, They specifically said to have 2x independant supplies to each mag and that the plug leads may not be able to handle 70kv. looking forward to the fix.
Jimmy, I just read the installation instructions and here are a couple of things. Manual say you may reuse the slick wires so you don’t need any “beefier” wires as some have recommended. I think it’s just mis-timed. Under “install drive interface” section of the EIS installation manual is this: “NOTICE: The drive gear fits on the EIS shaft in one of two orientations. A normal installation will align a gear tooth valley with the woodruff key on the EIS shaft (Figure 4). If you have difficulty timing the EIS to the engine in further steps, it may be necessary to remove the drive gear from the EIS and re-install it 180° on the shaft as shown in the alternate orientation (Figure 5).” Also this: “NOTICE: The EIS LED will not turn on if the p-lead terminal is grounded. 5. Slowly rotate the EIS drive gear to find the point where the LED goes off. 6. TURN SLOWLY - the LED alignment point has a 1⁄2° window and is difficult to see if turning fast! 7. The point at which the LED goes off is the EIS’s internal TDC alignment. 8. Once this point is found, care should be taken to avoid any rotation of the EIS drive gear during further steps of engine installation.” I’d put the t TDC gauge into cylinder 1 to time the mag accurately. Then “VII. UNLIKE A MAGNETO, THE LYCOMING EIS IS TIMED (SYNCED) TO #1 CYLINDER COMPRESSION STROKE TDC (0°). The EIS operates by syncing its internal TDC alignment point to #1-cylinder compression stroke (TDC - 0°). 1. Confirm the engine is at top dead center (TDC - 0°) of #1 cylinder on the compression stoke. 2. Ensure the O-ring is present, free of debris and seated in the EIS face groove. 3. Apply Lubrico® M-6 grease or equivalent to the mating surface of the EIS flange and the O-ring. 4. Ensure the EIS is still internally timed as described in Section V above. NOTICE: When installing a fixed timing EIS, make sure the manifold pressure port (Figures 1, 2, and 3) is not obstructed and open to atmospheric pressure. 5. Without allowing the EIS drive gear to rotate, align the EIS mounting ear slots with the engine studs and slide the EIS into the magneto cavity. 6. Hold the EIS flush to the engine, clock the EIS to ensure the point when the LED goes off is within the rotational sweep limits of the mounting ear slots. 7. Repeat steps 4 through 6 above if unable to find the point when the LED goes off as the EIS drive gear may have skipped a tooth over the engine gear when pushed in. NOTICE: For 66K4A and 66K4F installations, continue with steps 8-13. For 66K6D installations, do not complete step 8, and continue to complete steps 9-13. 8. If still unable to find the point when the LED goes off, reinstall the drive gear to the alternate drive gear orientation as described in Section II and begin over from Section V step 1. NOTICE: In the next step use the referenced Lycoming part numbers or AN/MS equivalent. 9. Install flat washers (P/N STD-1727), lock washers (P/N STD-475), & nuts (P/N STD-410) on to the engine studs over the EIS’s slotted mounting ears. Do not re-use lock washers - install NEW lock washers. 10. Do not use the clamps that some magnetos are installed with. 11. Finger tighten the nuts, do not allow the EIS to rotate. 12. If necessary, rotate the EIS to ensure the LED stays off. At this point the EIS is timed (synced) to the engine. 13. Torque the mounting nuts, alternating between the nuts in 4 ft.-lb. (5 Nm) increments, to 15 to 18 ft.- lbs. (20 to 24 Nm) ensuring the LED stays off. EIS Timing Check 1. Turn the crankshaft counter to normal rotation 1/8 of a turn from #1-cylinder TDC. 2. Slowly rotate the crankshaft in the normal direction. • If the LED goes off more than 2° before or after #1-cylinder TDC, the EIS is incorrectly timed and is not in sync with the engine. Loosen the EIS mounting nuts and re-clock the EIS per Section VI step 6 through Section VI step 13. • If the LED goes off as #1 cylinder reaches TDC - 0° (compression stroke) the EIS is correctly timed (synced) to the engine and you may proceed.”
I don't even like planes that much but I LOVE your spirit and your attitude and excited for every video! God bless you and everyone who is part of your videos!
Hey Jimmy! 10 year ame from Canada with tons of experience on 4 cyl Lycoming and surefly e-mags. I know we had issues with our emags when we first but them on our fleet, we talked to surefly alot and they had us install a capacitor inline with the mag power. Something about power fluctuating in system power and doing weird things in the magic spark box. Idk if it's ur issue but we had the same symptoms! Also whenever I had idle issues I'd do a good look for intake leaks. Good luck jimmy!
even on a 40 year old 4hp outboard i change the plug wires lol. this thing probably needs new suppressor type wires or whatever the lycoming guys recommend. new plugs can't hurt, either. not surprised if they call for different plugs as well.
First, those units are rebranded Surefly units, that were designed by a friend of mine (and fellow Grumman Pilot) who also designed the Skytec Starter, Plane Power Alternator and Regulator and lastly, the Treo Autopilot. Ist, the sparkplugs in your motor appear to be 40E's. Generally, most use Tempest UE37BY's (stay away from Champion plugs). However, you ain't gonna get either of those plugs to gap out at 0.032 without cracking the insulator. However, Tempest now makes a new plug (UAREM37HE) just for electronic ignitions pre-gapped at 0.032. 2nd, My friend states (and this is in the Surefly Literature) that you should check the leads and they actually recommend swapping them out if you have any issues. 3rd, If you are going to check your sparkplugs, you need to check them out on a sparkplug tester that with test the plug under load, and in addition, check the resistance in the plugs themselves (especially if they are Champions). 4th, With the exception of easier starting (much easier), you will see almost no extra performance unless you setup the vacuum advance, I dont care how many of these things you install on your motor. On my Grumman (0-360A4K) I have my Surefly firing UARE37HE's on the bottom four plugs and the standard mag firing the four UE37BY's on the top. My Grumman has a fixed pitch prop so I cannot spin the prop faster than 2700 RPM anyway, so there is no speed increase, however, climb is noticeably better. The Major improvement is fuel burn. Before the change, at 7000 feet I could lean down to 8.5 GPH or so before the engine got rough and had to turn the mixture to smooth things out. Now I can lean down to 7 GPH and run smooth (actually, the engine will not get rough. It just quits running if I try to lean too far. At todays Avgas prices, this is not small potatoes. That saves about 10 bucks a gal at cruise, enough to pay for that second Surefly by the time two of these can be legally put on a certified airplane. CLaude Allen Green Cove Springs, Fl
gm. Jimmy you need to make a brace to keep your canopy open !! while you are one the ground working so as not to roast in the cockpit...make working on or in it more enjoyable
I thought the same thing. Take that hammer and channel locks away from him! You should also trim that mustache before you report in for duty. Love the channel Jimmy.
I would have personally swapped the new "mags" side to side to see if the problem followed the mag, assuming they're interchangeable. If not, putting the old mag on was the next best thing but wouldn't have tested your power source. Entirely possible the new unit is bad. I got a new in box Ford fuel pump that was bad. Turned on, wouldn't build pressure. Ever since the COVID shut downs, I've seen more and more new parts from reputable companies where it seems they chose to pull people from quality control to make more parts instead.
I think most people here misunderstand something about spark voltage: The spark voltage rises until the arc starts to form. That will be at the same voltage with this magneto as with the old one. When the plasma channel has formed, the voltage drops much lower, since the resistance of the plasma channel is much lower than that of compressed mixture. What these powerful magnetos maybe produce a faster rising, higher >possible< voltage before the spark forms, and while it is burning they can provide more current (at slightly higher burn voltage but still low voltage compared to the peak), giving a hotter arc. Therefore, the wire insulation is most likely not the problem. That being said, I don't understand why Jimmy put back the old Magneto instead of swapping the left and right new ones around. It would tell more a possible insulation problem.
I had a student who wanted to change his carby from the standard one , I tried to talk him out of it, but he wouldn’t listen. When he did a thrust test he lost nearly a quarter of his original thrust. When an engine maker builds an engine they put the best engine components to suit that model. Don’t listen to other people who knows it all. I can remember when I used to race motorcycle’s, a mate of mine put his shock absorbers on upside down, just to see what other riders would do. Well the race two weeks later half the riders did the same. They asked why he put them back the original way. He didn’t have the heart to tell them. I thought I would share that with you.cheers
I would take an ohm meter and check the resistance on all the plug wires. Deteriorating plugs wires may be ok at low voltage, but once you double the juice to them they get hot and their resistance increases.
Absolutely. Even if those wires are brand new, you can have a bad one. Either a bad core or bad insulation, and the only way to test the cores is with an ohm meter. A good new wire may have 200 ohms resistance, an old bad one 50,000. The old one will still work, but going electronic and doubling the voltage...maybe not. If those plug wires are old, check with the ohm meter anyway. New wires might buy you more speed REAL cheap.
Every SBC Chevy, and the one BBC I've ever owned, has had the points/condensor system replaced with HEI. You can never go wrong. My totally unqualified opinion, as I am no aircraft mechanic (ICBMs? Yes, qualified. Airplanes? No) is the stand alone battery power for the right mag is rather important. I feel it the left mag isn't getting the constant voltage it needs.
This was the second thing I thought about. The manufacturer recommended a second battery for the second mag for a reason and low amperage kills electrical products. If the manufacturer watches the video they may not warranty either mag even if one is bad. Did not follow instructions and admitted to it. Wires were the first thought because the higher voltage of the new mags.
The stand alone battery is for redundancy purposes in this instance. Not a requirement for actual functionality. It would be there in case of a total electrical failure, then you could still keep the engine running for a limited amount of time on the stand alone battery.
Yep a little bit of rusty connectors goes a long/ bad way !! A tiny bit of spray silicone on da wire ends and a little bit of anti seize on the threads will help make a better electrical connection
1st, when you reinstall magnetos, always switch through left/right at idle as soon as you get the engine started. Real quick, 1st thing, check to see if they are both smooth BEFORE bringing the power up. My suspicion is that you have one of the magnetos timed 180* out. Even though the timing lights both went on/off at close to similar times, one magneto is firing on the compression stroke and the other (rough one) is firing on the opposite cylinders in the firing order.
You more than double up the voltage of the spark, so the question pop up in my mind, : Can the isolation of the spark plug leads (wires) handle that, without breaking through to ground somewhere along the line? Or even the plug body itself that may have a small crack that allow the higher voltage spark to break through.
The voltage will be unchanged ... the *maximum possible* voltage has been increased by the new mags, but, the actual voltage achieved is fixed by the plug gaps!
Jimmy thank you for the prize. I am 82 y/o with a terminal lung disease , not the big c . I can not even fly do to breathing. I really enjoy your slapstick comedy , maintenance,and flying. Thank you again, “Can I get a clear prop”
Simple diagnostics, Jimmy. The left one is having an issue, the right one is ok. Switch the left and right units, see if the problem follows the unit or stays on the left side.
Assuming the Left Mag (or now the Electronic Ignition) feeds the lower plugs, you need to pull the lower cowl to check those plugs, not just the top. The lower plugs are most susceptible to oil fouling as any oil that seeps past the valve stem seals into the cylinders and collects on the bottom plugs. Best to use iridium fine wire plugs on the bottom to help prevent that fouling if that's an issue.
Your plugs should be replaced along with the wires whenever you replace your ignition system. You should check your fueling because from what I could see those plugs look too rich.
Follow up on my previous comment. If the wire isolation is the problem, darkness is your friend. Start in darkness and watch for sparks where there are no sparks supposed to be. Check all places where the wires goes through holes and may have some wear because of vibration.
it always surprises me how relatively small these engines are. in my hobby of collecting antique phonographs, I found a 1938 experimental Garrard motor I think this is the only phonograph motor with an oil compartment or carter it's about the size of a car motor and it has way more gears than a regular phono motor it displaces 59 liters of water (tested that in a lab!) it's powered by 6 30mm springs when I refurbished the machine I lost grip on one of these springs and it blew past my head through my door and got stuck in the roof insulation behind my door! the thing is cranked by a cranking electro motor (yeah! you would be winding for days!! to get it to full power!!) there's a wheel with a notch that slowly turns and when it reaches the switch of the cranking motor it turns on and winds up the motor this thing is a monster! because of its tremendous power, it can run as low as 8 rpm! its wow and flutter while playing is better than most professional players because the machine came with a 2-inch thick solid steel motor board with springs and rubber dampeners so one day I can play my abba records with this! if this motor would have ever reached the consumer market the price would have been 2000 British pounds $ 2381,54 probably meant for the EMG high-end phonographs so, I'm waiting for an empty cabinet to arrive the other plan is to build a replica of the harry potter goblet of fire giant phonograph. the speeds are 8 rpm to 200 rpm the existing playing speeds are between 3 rpm and 150 rpm its also the only phono motor that no man can lift it's a big chunk of cast steel with bronze and steel parts inside plus 10 liters of oil it's probably just a little bit smaller than the engine in this plane!
@@accousticdecay I’m 6’5” :) just gotta take out the seats and enjoy the fiberglass! Edit: I’m about to make a new backrest that allows me to lean a little bit further back so cushions can actually be added. 8Hr flights take a toll on your body when all your using is a 1/2” ATV seat cushion cover lol
Replace spark plugs. Higher voltage can short to ground internally; especially after warmed up (operating temp) and under operating load. Shop testers can give false positive results. Not usually rated nor designed for turbo-mags.
Had the same issue on an IO_470 after new mag and ignition wire harness. Turned out the mech messed up the firing order and never test ran it before delivering it.
The best suggestions here: New wires, check dip switches (didn't see you check them and did you loc tite the screw?), plugs looked "footballed" to me), the ignition switch may be incompatible, wires running to wrong cylinder. Now is the time to read the instructions! Lol. Good luck.
Hey Jimmy! I would love to have some tinkering time with some of these types of aircraft! I work on Airbus A320 family and I love my job! Greetings from Glasgow, Scotland 🏴 🇬🇧
Indeed, I once made AIRBUS range then till 2003 landing gear spars and gear links up till March 2003 when the Company i worked for went Insolvent. I even did the first batch of A380 parts but due to increased size had to do them in 2 operations until a new almost £1 million pound twin pallet machining centre was installed along with its extra tooling.. Was very proud of my work, most still flying (i hope) I also made parts for Rolls Royce AERO among other things/ but at 55 back in 2003 my work overload was killing me slowly so, took the chance and retired - sold up moved 30 metres from a great beach, loving it still at 74 now.. Loved my work though, even loved my mostly 14 hour night shifts even 12 nights on/ but loved retirement since,.. Be proud Mate..For every UK worker on AIRBUS we should be proud.. Ian.B. Down South.
@@ianburit3705 any chance you can build a couple of planes for Kamikaze pilots Boris Johnston and Nicola Sturgeon? 🤔😂 Hope you have a blessed retirement though 🙏✝️😇🇬🇧
You mentioned that sparculators would have larger gap. Chevy HEI require a larger gap than old school point and coil system. I would check on correct spark gap as well as ignition wire requirements.
Great videos. Great flyer. Great number of aircraft activities. Great time to self audit for the sake of revitalising all safety matters. Go well Jimmy.
Agree with Scott. You could be over powering the old wires. When you put a load on them they will seek the nearest point to discharge their spark. Replace wires.
Ditch the parallel valve heads for angle valve for more HP, you're experimental right? Look into the guys out at Reno and see what they do for the Lycoming 4 bangers
You cannot simply swap cylinders Just because the engine is a 0-360. The angle valve engine (200 HP and used in the Cardinal RG among other airplanes) the Strate Valve 0-360 is a complete different motor with is roots in the 0-290 0-320 engines.
@@Allenciii no it's not a simple swap, have to take everything from the cases up including the sheet metal, but it has been done, angle valve jugs have been used on the parallel valve cases many times. probably cheaper to throw a stroker crank with high compression pistons run the ignition at 20 degrees to keep it alive. But the nice thing about experimental is you can build your own engine to your specific wants. But also the 180 ho parallel valve 360 was one of Lycomings most reliable engines ever built. Maybe some nitrous like a 50ho shot, would help cool the intake charge
AS I said before. Their is the IO-360. It is the Angle Valve engine. You cannot put IO-360 Heads on an 0-360 strate valve Lycoming engine. Two different engines, one uses a dynofocal mount, the other a cradle mount. Lycoming makes two versions of the strate valve engine , a 0-360 4cyl 180 HP and an 0-520 6cyl (260 HP), They make two angle valve engines, I0-360 4 cyl 200HP and the I0-520 6cyl (300 HP). Dont care if you are in Reno NV or Reno France, you cannot make one out of the other. There are no interchangeable parts between the two engine series.
@@Allenciii your right I don't think it can be done on a 360, but definitely has been done on the O320 carbureted and all, too bad you can't put pictures in the comments
I've encountered issues similar to yours. Check your plug wire caps which mount to the mag themselves. Good chance the springs are not making good contact with the mag. Check protrusion of the spring and compare to the depth of the female end on the mag. Those plug wires look like the ACS brand (going off the blue color) and found the springs were not long enough to make solid contact on the mag. Got a set of non-ACS spark plug cables and the problem went away.
A thought. There's a significant difference in voltage output between the magneto and the electronic unit. It may be that with the magneto output, the plug leads are containing the power, but with the significantly higher voltage of the electronic unit, the higher voltage is breaking through wire insulation (or in the cap) somehow. As suggested below, and since you know which cylinder is not firing well, I might suspect plug leads before sending the electronic unit back.
Nope, the mags are *capable* of putting out higher volts and firing a dirty plug, but on good plugs they will only put out the same peak voltage as any other mag ... which is the voltage at which the plugs fire. Once it reaches that voltage and the plug sparks over, the voltage in the leads drops to a very low value.
About the growth on your lip: Those yellow oxygenimagic thingies that drops from the ceiling in the unlikely event of cabin depressurising does not seal well on facial hair. Think about it.
@@stevebabarik5879 That is amazing Steve. On how many airliners have you flown when the depressurising oxygen masks have dropped down? It has never happened to me!! I also have a full beard. Just worried about the above effect.
I believe those have a fixed timing of around 25 degrees and no advance, so it doesn't surprise me to have some bucking when cranking and idling low. I'm not into aviation, but have played with similar designed engines and magneto's.
Do these E-mags use an impulse coupler like a standard Slick? Seems like a classic engine start issue when the engine "hangs" because the coupler wasn't properly set when it was timed.
Jimmy you mentioned getting 2 separate power sources could it be that the one for the left mag is unreliable? Could even be a poor connection in the switch itself. Cant see new mags (which have been freshly tested before leaving the factory) being bad out of the box and since you eliminated the high voltage side Im thinking it must be a poor connection or low voltage coming into the mag. Loose or pinched wire or possibly poor ground.
Yep.. maybe not enough power.. or maybe you have to use the other side of the terminals to test with the battery since it's on the opposite side of the engine.. kinda dangerous for that to not work right.. could detonate a piston..
This is exactly why I fly a 24' Neptune sailboat with a 5hp long shaft motor. LOL If my engine fails I can still sail safely home. Can I get a "prepare to jibe"?
No it's for redundancy and flight safety. Twin plugs are also a bit more efficient than the single design in cars. Bear in mind when you say magneto you're referring to the new ESI's as real magnetos make their own power. ESI's draw battery/alternator power and do not make their own. So if you still only have one battery providing power for both you've lost your safety margin and a battery/alternator failure will cause engine failure.
@@wntu4 I know this is supposed to be for redundancy, but I have seen some weird things happening with parts in the same circuit on cars and in machinery. So if you can't find the problem try a separate battery to see if that fixes the problem.
This could be the issue. Without seeing the schematic for the ESI it's difficult to be certain, but if there are opamps in the circuits, it is possible that it requires isolated power supplies to eliminate what anyone who has ever installed a different radio in their vehicle themselves, would recognize as "radio noise". Basically an RF feedback signal. Considering the ESI's are so sensitive to timing, it wouldn't surprise me if this was the issue.
Jim if you want to go fast with the Lancair, you have to look at fast ones and see what they have done. Reno air racer: Tom McNerney Blue Springs, MO check what he’s done… learn from or copy the best! Besides Tom is a great guy, very smart!
at 3:51 you got anti-seize on the spark plug electrodes, placing some inside the engine, if any got blown up or ran down onto the porcelain when it cranked/started a plug may now be carbon tracked and arcing down the porcelain center, instead of the gaps. anti seize is conductive, especially at high voltages and I've had exactly happen on vehicles/off-road equipment in the past. on external exposed porcelain plugs, I have seen others get it on the body and inside the boot, quickly making a nice carbon track on the outside. it's something to be mindful of!
Maybe I missed it, but those Lycoming electric mags require voltage to function, right? So now the plane may have the engine quit if electrical power is lost. Do you have a second battery and alternator? What if there’s a problem with the master contactor? I would be scared of a dual electrical dependent plane.. the PMAGs have the ability to self generate, I didn’t think these Lycoming ones do, right?
Self generating would be mandatory or two electric distributers would be redundant as both would go dead in a power disruption. magnetos should have gone bye- bye years ago.
@@mikegoodman447 in the experimental market, there’s no requirement.. that’s the chance you take. That’s why the builder needs to think these things though. And that’s why I ask about the failure modes on the Lycoming EIS. I am looking at the PMAGs for my plane,
@@thomasaltruda I hope my last comment goes through.. He has crossed two opposite wires on one distributer. You will not get a back fire as the plugs will fire on the exhaust stroke. When he switches to the bad distributer only two cylinders fire. The two distributers sit in the block 180 degrees from each other. One sits up and the other will sit with the top down as the mounts are offset.
Rule of thumb, just because you see some spark in each plug does not mean they fire correctly under compression, also how old are the wires from the mags? Good idea to replace them all, plus plugs to have a fresh set? Also check bleed by of intake valves to see if your losing compression upon firing stroke!
Wires could be leaking spark to a ground, happened on my motorcycle, couldn't figure it out until I tried to pull the wires while it was running and got a spark up to my shoulder. It was arcing out of the plug boot.
That's what I am thinking. Swap the wires now and see if they do the same on the other side. Course if theres a crack/ you might not get the same ground to jump to. But hey, why not just put in 8 fresh plugs and wires to go with the new Mags????? 70K volts is a lot of jumping power you didn't have to worry about before!
I'll be shocked if the mag is bad. I think its too much draw on the single supply system. The old mag brings the draw back to limits the system can handle. Just my thoughts...
That would only make sense if it ran poorly on both ignition systems but well on one or the other. When he switches to the left, the right stops drawing power
Jimmy....any update on your guys stolen tools ? Disappointed you did not retool this guy then get repaid thru go fund me page. Have fun...be careful...and stay safe.
Thanks for checking in. Dr Phil is getting there. He’s replaced most of the hand tools. Now it’s about the aviation specific tools. This community is amazing! So many people stepped up to help him out. Very thankful
Misinformation Effect:....The misinformation effect: When our memory for past events is altered after exposure to misleading information. 2. False memory: A memory of an event that is entirely false or partially distorted....Jimmy's/World.....LOL.!
@@therealjimmysworld CERN.. restarted on 22 April 2022 after more than three years for maintenance, consolidation and upgrade work.CERN/announced on Tuesday7-5-2022 the observation of three new “exotic particles” that could provide clues about the force that binds subatomic particles together.
Table collapse reminded me of when the fbo I worked for in the 80s used fly some Chicago Bears players to camp. Tables in the Navajo were always broken when they got back to Kankakee.
can't be bothered to read all the comments to see if someone else has already suggested this, but check for poor connections in the power supply to the ignition unit that's running poorly. with up to 10 A of current flowing through the wires (what you mentioned the fuse blows at) even a 0.5 Ohm resistance somewhere drops the voltage arriving to the unit to 7 V, which would probably be enough for it to not work at all. the leads on cheapo multimeters could have that much resistance so measuring low resistances with one could take some patience, but even if that's all you've got you can do it with care.
There was 2 obvious problems here. 1st problem was the classic if it aint broke don't fix it. And 2nd problem you let a dummy work on your plane. Just kidding around love your videos!!!
I have to agree with some of the others. The original mags may not be pumping out enough for a flaw to materialize. If you have resistance in one of those wire/plug combinations, the higher voltage E-mags may be pushing a bad part to the point where it is forcing the spark to find it's way out. Make sure you get high quality wires rated for these and do a plug swap just to make sure. I find it highly unusual that the MFG would miss a bad coil in QC and send it out like that.
Hey Jimmy, have a good look at the conductivity of the leads. More voltage better wires needed. Being a retired aeronautical engineer, I could hear the engine ‘labour’ a bit while it was running.. check also if you have a small short somewhere as a lot more voltage is running in the engine bay.. good luck!
Seems like a classic case of new high powered ignition causing voltage leakage. Anytime you upgrade your spark you need to upgrade to performance wires and install new performance plugs to handle the increased voltage.
You have new e-mags that are putting out a LOT more voltage. If your wires aren't in perfect shape, you could be getting spark leakage to ground somewhere through failing wire insulation. The old mag, with lower output, still works fine, but the new mag, with 70KV potential, can just zap right through that wire's insulation and cause the mag drop.
And the voltage leak will get worse at altitude
i concurr, new wires
Electrican for 30 years and your right thats a good point. what about current difference of two mag types? Then the wire current rating
@@hadleymanmusic The original magnetos don't use any power at all - they generate their own spark using magnets and coils, they're entirely mechanical. Only the new electronic mags require an outside power source, and he fused them correctly with the 10 amp fuse.
First thing I thought too when he pulled off the hood and took a shot of the engine..."Man, that thing could use some new wires". I'm assuming automotive and aviation spark plug wires are similar....the first one shown has a hell of a bend going to the plug. Would expect a lot bigger bend radius. Electrical tech for 15 years, Mech. Engineer for 10 years...wrenching on things that spin since I could hold a wrench.
Swap the Mags. If the problem moves you know it's a bad Mag.
Or if it's bad leads on the left side, if it still happens with the good mag from the right.
Agree. I hope he can tell one from the other...
New mags prolly output way more juice than the old one, he can have bad wiring insulation and it results in leak to the ground with new ones but not the old one
It might have something to do when he was unpackaging opening up the box and dropped on the ground when the table collapsed on it and that meg got damaged or might be something inside were the leads the spark plug wires connect to go out to the cylinders does a spark plugs on the inside maybe there’s a short to ground on one of the cylinders inside that magneto were working except for spark plug
@@jerrydlaughrin2880 It looked like the mags were still well protected as the box fell.
man I just love your videos. when I am feeling homesick or just not feeling right, I put on some of your videos, and before I know it I feel better again. It really helps. It's like something familiar to me or perhaps it just reminds me of my recently departed Dad. I miss him so much. We did everything together. He was such a great man, taken from us quickly and unexpectedly. Life is not always fair, but intelligence is the ability to adapt. Anyway, thanks again for your content, I sure hope to meet you one day Jimmy. Your my kinda guy... Your legendary my friend. Legendary!
Come on up to Panama City this spring and let me take you on a free guide trip. It would be my absolute pleasure!!!!!! - Matt
You will not see any improvement without spark advance (unless, of course you have a "weak mag"). Surefly has the spark advance option; Lycoming uses traditional fixed timing. As you know, the Lycoming mag is made by Surefly to Lycoming specs. I recommend cutting your losses and replacing the impulse coupled mag with a Surefly and keep the other mag. In my case I saw about a 12% boost in power with a single Surefly configured with spark advance.
Think about it ... the voltage delivered to the plugs is the breakdown voltage, not the "70,000 volts" that is possible. Spark plug gaps usually break around 30,000 volts. The fact that your engine was running great before shows you that the ignition wires and the plugs are good. You'll be chasing your ass if you start changing parts.
Adding a second electronic mag has minimal impact because the Surefly mag will start the advance ignition process and the second tradition mag fills in. The "advanced timing" spark energy delivered by the Surefly mag is what does the trick. Adding a second Surefly complicates matters and is not as safe.
Once you get a single Surefly mag running smoothly, my other recommendations would be fine wire Tempest plugs (not Champion) and New Horizons ignition harness.
Thanks for your great recommendation. You explained it clearly and thoroughly.
About as cut and dry as you can get! Very nice conclusion and thoroughly explained the reasoning behind said conclusion!! 👍👏 Well done sir. Hope Jimmy sees it, and follow through!
Since you went for the expense to replace the mags I would be inclined to replace wires and plugs at the same time just to ensure you are getting maximum from your e-mag. Cool stuff - thx!
Yes, at every annual I used to replace the plugs in my Bonanza. Back then a new set of 12 were under $100. We pulled them to inspect and compression check anyway. There used to be some very nice engine analyzers made by Sperry to help isolate engine problems on large recips. Something like that may be available now for smaller engines. You could spot a failing cylinder instantly and quickly determine if it was ignition or something mechanical.
Agree. Don’t jump over a dollar to get to a dime.⁉️🤔
I agree. If we're going to upgrade the "sparkage", let's do new wires and plugs. Less guessing in your t.s.process can't be a bad thing.
Jim, you have two complete ignitions. One firing the top plugs (or half of them and half the bottom) and the other firing the other half. Make sure you know which system is being powered in which switch position. Remove the lower cowl, clean and check the plugs. When you test run positively identify which cylinder is at fault and correct it. 😊
For goodness sake use engineers tools on an aircraft, a claw hammer is used by a carpenter for wood work.
On today's very special edition of Jimmy's World, Jimmy finds out why the saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" is a saying!
Those mags are made by surefly. When I installed mine I had all kinds of running bad. What it turned out to be (for me) was the wires going into the cap were wrong. I had to re position the wires to the correct firing order.
Best of luck.
Darryl
I agree with some of the comments below, They specifically said to have 2x independant supplies to each mag and that the plug leads may not be able to handle 70kv. looking forward to the fix.
Since you have greatly increased the high Voltage, I am wondering if your wires are up to the task.
leaky spark plug wire, MY GUESS ...me and like 37 otyher peeps thinkin that line or thought in the other comment with like 39 replys lol
Jimmy, I just read the installation instructions and here are a couple of things. Manual say you may reuse the slick wires so you don’t need any “beefier” wires as some have recommended. I think it’s just mis-timed.
Under “install drive interface” section of the EIS installation manual is this: “NOTICE: The drive gear fits on the EIS shaft in one of two orientations. A normal installation will align a gear tooth valley with the woodruff key on the EIS shaft (Figure 4). If you have difficulty timing the EIS to the engine in further steps, it may be necessary to remove the drive gear from the EIS and re-install it 180° on the shaft as shown in the alternate orientation (Figure 5).”
Also this: “NOTICE: The EIS LED will not turn on if the p-lead terminal is grounded.
5. Slowly rotate the EIS drive gear to find the point where the LED goes off.
6. TURN SLOWLY - the LED alignment point has a 1⁄2° window and is difficult to see if turning fast!
7. The point at which the LED goes off is the EIS’s internal TDC alignment.
8. Once this point is found, care should be taken to avoid any rotation of the EIS drive gear during further steps of engine installation.”
I’d put the t
TDC gauge into cylinder 1 to time the mag accurately. Then
“VII.
UNLIKE A MAGNETO, THE LYCOMING EIS IS TIMED (SYNCED) TO #1 CYLINDER COMPRESSION STROKE TDC (0°).
The EIS operates by syncing its internal TDC alignment point to #1-cylinder compression
stroke (TDC - 0°).
1. Confirm the engine is at top dead center (TDC - 0°) of #1 cylinder on the compression stoke.
2. Ensure the O-ring is present, free of debris and seated in the EIS face groove.
3. Apply Lubrico® M-6 grease or equivalent to the mating surface of the EIS flange and the O-ring.
4. Ensure the EIS is still internally timed as described in Section V above.
NOTICE: When installing a fixed timing EIS, make sure the manifold pressure port (Figures 1, 2, and 3) is not obstructed and open to atmospheric pressure.
5. Without allowing the EIS drive gear to rotate, align the EIS mounting ear slots with the engine studs and slide the EIS into the magneto cavity.
6. Hold the EIS flush to the engine, clock the EIS to ensure the point when the LED goes off is within the rotational sweep limits of the mounting ear slots.
7. Repeat steps 4 through 6 above if unable to find the point when the LED goes off as the EIS drive gear may have skipped a tooth over the engine gear when pushed in.
NOTICE: For 66K4A and 66K4F installations, continue with steps 8-13. For 66K6D installations, do not complete step 8, and continue to complete steps 9-13.
8. If still unable to find the point when the LED goes off, reinstall the drive gear to the alternate drive gear orientation as described in Section II and begin over from Section V step 1.
NOTICE: In the next step use the referenced Lycoming part numbers or AN/MS equivalent.
9. Install flat washers (P/N STD-1727), lock washers (P/N STD-475), & nuts (P/N STD-410) on to the engine studs over the EIS’s slotted mounting ears. Do not re-use lock washers - install NEW lock washers.
10. Do not use the clamps that some magnetos are installed with.
11. Finger tighten the nuts, do not allow the EIS to rotate.
12. If necessary, rotate the EIS to ensure the LED stays off. At this point the EIS is timed (synced) to the engine.
13. Torque the mounting nuts, alternating between the nuts in 4 ft.-lb. (5 Nm) increments, to 15 to 18 ft.- lbs. (20 to 24 Nm) ensuring the LED stays off.
EIS Timing Check
1. Turn the crankshaft counter to normal rotation 1/8 of a turn from #1-cylinder TDC.
2. Slowly rotate the crankshaft in the normal direction.
• If the LED goes off more than 2° before or after #1-cylinder TDC, the EIS is incorrectly timed and is not in sync with the engine. Loosen the EIS mounting nuts and re-clock the EIS per Section VI step 6 through Section VI step 13.
• If the LED goes off as #1 cylinder reaches TDC - 0° (compression stroke) the EIS is correctly timed (synced) to the engine and you may proceed.”
I don't even like planes that much but I LOVE your spirit and your attitude and excited for every video! God bless you and everyone who is part of your videos!
Hey Jimmy! 10 year ame from Canada with tons of experience on 4 cyl Lycoming and surefly e-mags. I know we had issues with our emags when we first but them on our fleet, we talked to surefly alot and they had us install a capacitor inline with the mag power. Something about power fluctuating in system power and doing weird things in the magic spark box. Idk if it's ur issue but we had the same symptoms! Also whenever I had idle issues I'd do a good look for intake leaks. Good luck jimmy!
Makes sense, the e-mags are noisey so a capacitor shoves all that AC garbage to ground.
Caps handle current surge
Did they get you to install a large cap close to the mag or a smaller cap close to the battery?
@@Ammoniummetavanadate big ole cap near the mag, made the C152 cowl pretty cramped on the right side haha
Well if adding a cap was a known issue it would be in the mag allready. Capacitors are to fail prone. Adding one would be a bad idea....
even on a 40 year old 4hp outboard i change the plug wires lol. this thing probably needs new suppressor type wires or whatever the lycoming guys recommend. new plugs can't hurt, either. not surprised if they call for different plugs as well.
First, those units are rebranded Surefly units, that were designed by a friend of mine (and fellow Grumman Pilot) who also designed the Skytec Starter, Plane Power Alternator and Regulator and lastly, the Treo Autopilot.
Ist, the sparkplugs in your motor appear to be 40E's. Generally, most use Tempest UE37BY's (stay away from Champion plugs). However, you ain't gonna get either of those plugs to gap out at 0.032 without cracking the insulator. However, Tempest now makes a new plug (UAREM37HE) just for electronic ignitions pre-gapped at 0.032.
2nd, My friend states (and this is in the Surefly Literature) that you should check the leads and they actually recommend swapping them out if you have any issues.
3rd, If you are going to check your sparkplugs, you need to check them out on a sparkplug tester that with test the plug under load, and in addition, check the resistance in the plugs themselves (especially if they are Champions).
4th, With the exception of easier starting (much easier), you will see almost no extra performance unless you setup the vacuum advance, I dont care how many of these things you install on your motor.
On my Grumman (0-360A4K) I have my Surefly firing UARE37HE's on the bottom four plugs and the standard mag firing the four UE37BY's on the top.
My Grumman has a fixed pitch prop so I cannot spin the prop faster than 2700 RPM anyway, so there is no speed increase, however, climb is noticeably better. The Major improvement is fuel burn. Before the change, at 7000 feet I could lean down to 8.5 GPH or so before the engine got rough and had to turn the mixture to smooth things out. Now I can lean down to 7 GPH and run smooth (actually, the engine will not get rough. It just quits running if I try to lean too far.
At todays Avgas prices, this is not small potatoes. That saves about 10 bucks a gal at cruise, enough to pay for that second Surefly by the time two of these can be legally put on a certified airplane.
CLaude Allen Green Cove Springs, Fl
He mentions checking the plugs in a “machine”
Thanks for the morning show Jimmy. It was a nice break for me. I'm on lake Kissimmee fishing. We'll back to it. I really enjoy the channel. Ty
i love it already even before Premieres starts . Keep up the great video's. Save The 310 !!!!!!!
I like the suggestions below the spark too hot for the old wires or the 2nd mag is bad. Replaces wires and plugs makes sense to me. Great video.
gm. Jimmy you need to make a brace to keep your canopy open !! while you are one the ground working so as not to roast in the cockpit...make working on or in it more enjoyable
At 07:02
Never use a steel hammer. Better use a copper or nylon hammer to avoid damage.
I thought the same thing. Take that hammer and channel locks away from him! You should also trim that mustache before you report in for duty. Love the channel Jimmy.
I would have personally swapped the new "mags" side to side to see if the problem followed the mag, assuming they're interchangeable. If not, putting the old mag on was the next best thing but wouldn't have tested your power source. Entirely possible the new unit is bad. I got a new in box Ford fuel pump that was bad. Turned on, wouldn't build pressure.
Ever since the COVID shut downs, I've seen more and more new parts from reputable companies where it seems they chose to pull people from quality control to make more parts instead.
I agree, should have swapped E-mags to see if the problem followed the mag. That would isolate the problem to the mag or not.
Agree
Unless their side specific.
@@andgate2000 that would be what "interchangeable" means.
This is the way.
I think most people here misunderstand something about spark voltage: The spark voltage rises until the arc starts to form. That will be at the same voltage with this magneto as with the old one.
When the plasma channel has formed, the voltage drops much lower, since the resistance of the plasma channel is much lower than that of compressed mixture.
What these powerful magnetos maybe produce a faster rising, higher >possible< voltage before the spark forms, and while it is burning they can provide more current (at slightly higher burn voltage but still low voltage compared to the peak), giving a hotter arc.
Therefore, the wire insulation is most likely not the problem.
That being said, I don't understand why Jimmy put back the old Magneto instead of swapping the left and right new ones around. It would tell more a possible insulation problem.
I had a student who wanted to change his carby from the standard one , I tried to talk him out of it, but he wouldn’t listen. When he did a thrust test he lost nearly a quarter of his original thrust. When an engine maker builds an engine they put the best engine components to suit that model. Don’t listen to other people who knows it all. I can remember when I used to race motorcycle’s, a mate of mine put his shock absorbers on upside down, just to see what other riders would do. Well the race two weeks later half the riders did the same. They asked why he put them back the original way. He didn’t have the heart to tell them. I thought I would share that with you.cheers
I would take an ohm meter and check the resistance on all the plug wires. Deteriorating plugs wires may be ok at low voltage, but once you double the juice to them they get hot and their resistance increases.
Absolutely. Even if those wires are brand new, you can have a bad one. Either a bad core or bad insulation, and the only way to test the cores is with an ohm meter. A good new wire may have 200 ohms resistance, an old bad one 50,000. The old one will still work, but going electronic and doubling the voltage...maybe not.
If those plug wires are old, check with the ohm meter anyway. New wires might buy you more speed REAL cheap.
Every SBC Chevy, and the one BBC I've ever owned, has had the points/condensor system replaced with HEI. You can never go wrong. My totally unqualified opinion, as I am no aircraft mechanic (ICBMs? Yes, qualified. Airplanes? No) is the stand alone battery power for the right mag is rather important. I feel it the left mag isn't getting the constant voltage it needs.
This was the second thing I thought about. The manufacturer recommended a second battery for the second mag for a reason and low amperage kills electrical products. If the manufacturer watches the video they may not warranty either mag even if one is bad. Did not follow instructions and admitted to it. Wires were the first thought because the higher voltage of the new mags.
The stand alone battery is for redundancy purposes in this instance. Not a requirement for actual functionality. It would be there in case of a total electrical failure, then you could still keep the engine running for a limited amount of time on the stand alone battery.
I was thinking voltage drop from where he’s getting voltage.. maybe it needs 13.2 plus to fire correctly or one mag is 180 out also possible
Yep a little bit of rusty connectors goes a long/ bad way !! A tiny bit of spray silicone on da wire ends and a little bit of anti seize on the threads will help make a better electrical connection
Verify your dip switch settings. The left mag may be out of time.
Looks like aircraft mechanics have a lot of precision tools 🙂
Remember that with higher magneto voltage your ideal spark gap has probably changed and maybe the plug type has to change, too.
That was exactly my thought ..same as a vehicle engine..
right. less gap for sure!
Vice grips and a claw hammer ... precision tools ! Your a blast
1st, when you reinstall magnetos, always switch through left/right at idle as soon as you get the engine started. Real quick, 1st thing, check to see if they are both smooth BEFORE bringing the power up.
My suspicion is that you have one of the magnetos timed 180* out. Even though the timing lights both went on/off at close to similar times, one magneto is firing on the compression stroke and the other (rough one) is firing on the opposite cylinders in the firing order.
You more than double up the voltage of the spark, so the question pop up in my mind, : Can the isolation of the spark plug leads (wires) handle that, without breaking through to ground somewhere along the line? Or even the plug body itself that may have a small crack that allow the higher voltage spark to break through.
The voltage will be unchanged ... the *maximum possible* voltage has been increased by the new mags, but, the actual voltage achieved is fixed by the plug gaps!
@@itsverygreen532 he said the plugs will use a bigger gap, so the voltage will go up.
When I saw you put that Lycoming box up there my first thought was realized when your box fell off. 😖 DOH!!
Keep up the great content!
Text Me on Telegram....
IS A SCAMMER!!!
I answered once to him directly - saying as much and it disappeared.
Is that a Scammer hitting you up with a "Text me on Telegram"???
Thanks Jimmy and team. Love what you do! Better than Netflix.
Thanks for another great video Jimmy. Was super interesting.
Trust you are pleased with the parts.
Thanks.
Retired Air Force veteran.
For safety, keep one original mag on it and one elec mag.
Get that separate 2nd power supply that it called for.
Jimmy thank you for the prize. I am 82 y/o with a terminal lung disease , not the big c . I can not even fly do to breathing. I really enjoy your slapstick comedy , maintenance,and flying. Thank you again, “Can I get a clear prop”
Give the prize to someone else who will be able to use it .
Simple diagnostics, Jimmy. The left one is having an issue, the right one is ok. Switch the left and right units, see if the problem follows the unit or stays on the left side.
Assuming the Left Mag (or now the Electronic Ignition) feeds the lower plugs, you need to pull the lower cowl to check those plugs, not just the top. The lower plugs are most susceptible to oil fouling as any oil that seeps past the valve stem seals into the cylinders and collects on the bottom plugs. Best to use iridium fine wire plugs on the bottom to help prevent that fouling if that's an issue.
Your plugs should be replaced along with the wires whenever you replace your ignition system. You should check your fueling because from what I could see those plugs look too rich.
Follow up on my previous comment. If the wire isolation is the problem, darkness is your friend. Start in darkness and watch for sparks where there are no sparks supposed to be. Check all places where the wires goes through holes and may have some wear because of vibration.
it always surprises me how relatively small these engines are.
in my hobby of collecting antique phonographs, I found a 1938 experimental Garrard motor I think this is the only phonograph motor with an oil compartment or carter it's about the size of a car motor and it has way more gears than a regular phono motor it displaces 59 liters of water (tested that in a lab!)
it's powered by 6 30mm springs when I refurbished the machine I lost grip on one of these springs and it blew past my head through my door and got stuck in the roof insulation behind my door!
the thing is cranked by a cranking electro motor (yeah! you would be winding for days!! to get it to full power!!) there's a wheel with a notch that slowly turns and when it reaches the switch of the cranking motor it turns on and winds up the motor this thing is a monster!
because of its tremendous power, it can run as low as 8 rpm! its wow and flutter while playing is better than most professional players because the machine came with a 2-inch thick solid steel motor board with springs and rubber dampeners so one day I can play my abba records with this!
if this motor would have ever reached the consumer market the price would have been 2000 British pounds $ 2381,54 probably meant for the EMG high-end phonographs so, I'm waiting for an empty cabinet to arrive the other plan is to build a replica of the harry potter goblet of fire giant phonograph.
the speeds are 8 rpm to 200 rpm the existing playing speeds are between 3 rpm and 150 rpm its also the only phono motor that no man can lift it's a big chunk of cast steel with bronze and steel parts inside plus 10 liters of oil it's probably just a little bit smaller than the engine in this plane!
I don't know who you are or what you do, but you're keeping the tickler. That's set in stone.
Wish my Glasair has an O-360. Even more than that I’d love to have a normalizing turbo.
Man that little bud would scoot at 15K with 24”
I flew right seat in a Glasair ... once. My 6'3" frame didn't fit well.
@@accousticdecay I’m 6’5” :) just gotta take out the seats and enjoy the fiberglass!
Edit: I’m about to make a new backrest that allows me to lean a little bit further back so cushions can actually be added. 8Hr flights take a toll on your body when all your using is a 1/2” ATV seat cushion cover lol
@@jethchannel Gotta love the speed to do that. RA has busted up most of my joints, so I'll have to stay with slower, more comfortable birds.
I’d use some die-electric grease in plug wires so it minimizes corrosion.
Replace spark plugs. Higher voltage can short to ground internally; especially after warmed up (operating temp) and under operating load. Shop testers can give false positive results. Not usually rated nor designed for turbo-mags.
Is your firing order correct on that left magneto? Binding on start, bad misfire... been there done that.
Had the same issue on an IO_470 after new mag and ignition wire harness. Turned out the mech messed up the firing order and never test ran it before delivering it.
With that magnificent 'tash' comes great responsibility.
"Welcome to Magnum's World"
Love the new growth of the stache. It gives you new character.
The best suggestions here: New wires, check dip switches (didn't see you check them and did you loc tite the screw?), plugs looked "footballed" to me), the ignition switch may be incompatible, wires running to wrong cylinder.
Now is the time to read the instructions! Lol. Good luck.
Never change a running system :) Maybe change only one magneto first and then try to synchronise
Hey Jimmy! I would love to have some tinkering time with some of these types of aircraft! I work on Airbus A320 family and I love my job! Greetings from Glasgow, Scotland 🏴 🇬🇧
Blessings from Hogganfield Loch bud 🤔🏴🇬🇧😇✝️
Greetings from Kelvinbridge.
@@markmcarthur2090 two more bodies and we can have a 5-a-side team 🤔🤣🏴⚽🏆
Indeed, I once made AIRBUS range then till 2003 landing gear spars and gear links up till March 2003 when the Company i worked for went Insolvent. I even did the first batch of A380 parts but due to increased size had to do them in 2 operations until a new almost £1 million pound twin pallet machining centre was installed along with its extra tooling.. Was very proud of my work, most still flying (i hope) I also made parts for Rolls Royce AERO among other things/ but at 55 back in 2003 my work overload was killing me slowly so, took the chance and retired - sold up moved 30 metres from a great beach, loving it still at 74 now.. Loved my work though, even loved my mostly 14 hour night shifts even 12 nights on/ but loved retirement since,.. Be proud Mate..For every UK worker on AIRBUS we should be proud.. Ian.B. Down South.
@@ianburit3705 any chance you can build a couple of planes for Kamikaze pilots Boris Johnston and Nicola Sturgeon? 🤔😂
Hope you have a blessed retirement though 🙏✝️😇🇬🇧
Old adage which is always correct, if it works, don't fix it. Love your channel Jimmy.
You mentioned that sparculators would have larger gap. Chevy HEI require a larger gap than old school point and coil system. I would check on correct spark gap as well as ignition wire requirements.
Can’t wait to see what’s going on, this is my favorite channel here. 🇺🇸
Is this where Jimmy has to buy a new motor.
I believe your Fetzer valve is too tight, you need some ball bearings and some 40 weight oil.
Any Fletch fans out there?
Naw... it's the muffler bearing.
It’s all ball bearings.
Great videos. Great flyer. Great number of aircraft activities. Great time to self audit for the sake of revitalising all safety matters. Go well Jimmy.
Agree with Scott. You could be over powering the old wires. When you put a load on them they will seek the nearest point to discharge their spark. Replace wires.
Ditch the parallel valve heads for angle valve for more HP, you're experimental right? Look into the guys out at Reno and see what they do for the Lycoming 4 bangers
@@steve498 no as in the guys who bring their planes to race at Reno
You cannot simply swap cylinders Just because the engine is a 0-360. The angle valve engine (200 HP and used in the Cardinal RG among other airplanes) the Strate Valve 0-360 is a complete different motor with is roots in the 0-290 0-320 engines.
@@Allenciii no it's not a simple swap, have to take everything from the cases up including the sheet metal, but it has been done, angle valve jugs have been used on the parallel valve cases many times. probably cheaper to throw a stroker crank with high compression pistons run the ignition at 20 degrees to keep it alive. But the nice thing about experimental is you can build your own engine to your specific wants. But also the 180 ho parallel valve 360 was one of Lycomings most reliable engines ever built. Maybe some nitrous like a 50ho shot, would
help cool the intake charge
AS I said before. Their is the IO-360. It is the Angle Valve engine. You cannot put IO-360 Heads on an 0-360 strate valve Lycoming engine. Two different engines, one uses a dynofocal mount, the other a cradle mount. Lycoming makes two versions of the strate valve engine , a 0-360 4cyl 180 HP and an 0-520 6cyl (260 HP), They make two angle valve engines, I0-360 4 cyl 200HP and the I0-520 6cyl (300 HP). Dont care if you are in Reno NV or Reno France, you cannot make one out of the other. There are no interchangeable parts between the two engine series.
@@Allenciii your right I don't think it can be done on a 360, but definitely has been done on the O320 carbureted and all, too bad you can't put pictures in the comments
Hey Jimmy how about adding a turbo to the Engine !
I've encountered issues similar to yours. Check your plug wire caps which mount to the mag themselves. Good chance the springs are not making good contact with the mag. Check protrusion of the spring and compare to the depth of the female end on the mag. Those plug wires look like the ACS brand (going off the blue color) and found the springs were not long enough to make solid contact on the mag. Got a set of non-ACS spark plug cables and the problem went away.
Love the 70s bow Chica wow wow mustache haha.
A thought. There's a significant difference in voltage output between the magneto and the electronic unit. It may be that with the magneto output, the plug leads are containing the power, but with the significantly higher voltage of the electronic unit, the higher voltage is breaking through wire insulation (or in the cap) somehow. As suggested below, and since you know which cylinder is not firing well, I might suspect plug leads before sending the electronic unit back.
Nope, the mags are *capable* of putting out higher volts and firing a dirty plug, but on good plugs they will only put out the same peak voltage as any other mag ... which is the voltage at which the plugs fire. Once it reaches that voltage and the plug sparks over, the voltage in the leads drops to a very low value.
About the growth on your lip: Those yellow oxygenimagic thingies that drops from the ceiling in the unlikely event of cabin depressurising does not seal well on facial hair. Think about it.
I doubt that's true. I've got a full beard and I don't have any problems.
@@stevebabarik5879 That is amazing Steve. On how many airliners have you flown when the depressurising oxygen masks have dropped down? It has never happened to me!! I also have a full beard. Just worried about the above effect.
U got a like from me just because of yr funny talking. "Get the old interweb fired up..." Hilarious!
Jimmy you are very entertaining I basically live on your channel. Love to see these planes come alive.
That start and idle sure looks like an engine with its timing too far advanced. Prop going backwards on start is sure fire indication…
I believe those have a fixed timing of around 25 degrees and no advance, so it doesn't surprise me to have some bucking when cranking and idling low. I'm not into aviation, but have played with similar designed engines and magneto's.
Do these E-mags use an impulse coupler like a standard Slick? Seems like a classic engine start issue when the engine "hangs" because the coupler wasn't properly set when it was timed.
Hey jimmy hope you and the family have a blessed day!
As others have suggested, I think that new plugs and wires are in order. Either could be breaking-down under the extra voltage!
Thank you for the video Jimmy.
Hey Jimmy, Instead of a screw driver, a pencil eraser ✏️ works really good to clean that black char off points or contacts.
They work great on generator and starter armatures too.
Jimmy you mentioned getting 2 separate power sources could it be that the one for the left mag is unreliable? Could even be a poor connection in the switch itself. Cant see new mags (which have been freshly tested before leaving the factory) being bad out of the box and since you eliminated the high voltage side Im thinking it must be a poor connection or low voltage coming into the mag. Loose or pinched wire or possibly poor ground.
Hey Ed, any relation to Fred? Not joking, just curious.
@@artkitzmiller957 You referring to Fred Merts played by William Frawley? My dad says no but photos of my granddad suggest it might be possible
I agree, sounds like the alternative power source required might be the issue.
Agree as well. Came here to say the same thing.
Yep.. maybe not enough power.. or maybe you have to use the other side of the terminals to test with the battery since it's on the opposite side of the engine.. kinda dangerous for that to not work right.. could detonate a piston..
This is exactly why I fly a 24' Neptune sailboat with a 5hp long shaft motor. LOL If my engine fails I can still sail safely home. Can I get a "prepare to jibe"?
Hey ~Jimmy, you are rockin' the Jed Clampitt look with the 'tash and the hat! Nice!
If each Magneto needs his own power source, could it be that they interfere with each other?
Additional: I mean a ESI.
No it's for redundancy and flight safety. Twin plugs are also a bit more efficient than the single design in cars. Bear in mind when you say magneto you're referring to the new ESI's as real magnetos make their own power. ESI's draw battery/alternator power and do not make their own. So if you still only have one battery providing power for both you've lost your safety margin and a battery/alternator failure will cause engine failure.
@@wntu4 I know this is supposed to be for redundancy, but I have seen some weird things happening with parts in the same circuit on cars and in machinery. So if you can't find the problem try a separate battery to see if that fixes the problem.
This could be the issue. Without seeing the schematic for the ESI it's difficult to be certain, but if there are opamps in the circuits, it is possible that it requires isolated power supplies to eliminate what anyone who has ever installed a different radio in their vehicle themselves, would recognize as "radio noise". Basically an RF feedback signal. Considering the ESI's are so sensitive to timing, it wouldn't surprise me if this was the issue.
@@DaveyWiggers I was thinking the same thing.
Good Lord….. quit using a carpenter hammer on aircraft parts…
Jim if you want to go fast with the Lancair, you have to look at fast ones and see what they have done. Reno air racer: Tom McNerney
Blue Springs, MO check what he’s done… learn from or copy the best! Besides Tom is a great guy, very smart!
at 3:51 you got anti-seize on the spark plug electrodes, placing some inside the engine, if any got blown up or ran down onto the porcelain when it cranked/started a plug may now be carbon tracked and arcing down the porcelain center, instead of the gaps. anti seize is conductive, especially at high voltages and I've had exactly happen on vehicles/off-road equipment in the past.
on external exposed porcelain plugs, I have seen others get it on the body and inside the boot, quickly making a nice carbon track on the outside. it's something to be mindful of!
Maybe I missed it, but those Lycoming electric mags require voltage to function, right? So now the plane may have the engine quit if electrical power is lost. Do you have a second battery and alternator? What if there’s a problem with the master contactor? I would be scared of a dual electrical dependent plane.. the PMAGs have the ability to self generate, I didn’t think these Lycoming ones do, right?
Self generating would be mandatory or two electric distributers would be redundant as both would go dead in a power disruption. magnetos should have gone bye- bye years ago.
@@mikegoodman447 in the experimental market, there’s no requirement.. that’s the chance you take. That’s why the builder needs to think these things though. And that’s why I ask about the failure modes on the Lycoming EIS. I am looking at the PMAGs for my plane,
@@thomasaltruda I hope my last comment goes through.. He has crossed two opposite wires on one distributer. You will not get a back fire as the plugs will fire on the exhaust stroke. When he switches to the bad distributer only two cylinders fire. The two distributers sit in the block 180 degrees from each other. One sits up and the other will sit with the top down as the mounts are offset.
@@mikegoodman447 I agree, he has two wires crossed..
The warp drive's antimatter in a fusion reaction mediated by dilithium crystals need to be aligned.
Or maybe a new flux capacitor?
@@kimberlypineau7490 or maybe the firing order is a bit off?
Ignition wires suitable for the higher voltage. Reply replace your spark plugs With new ones Check the gap carefully. Beautiful airplane
Rule of thumb, just because you see some spark in each plug does not mean they fire correctly under compression, also how old are the wires from the mags? Good idea to replace them all, plus plugs to have a fresh set? Also check bleed by of intake valves to see if your losing compression upon firing stroke!
Wires could be leaking spark to a ground, happened on my motorcycle, couldn't figure it out until I tried to pull the wires while it was running and got a spark up to my shoulder. It was arcing out of the plug boot.
That's what I am thinking. Swap the wires now and see if they do the same on the other side. Course if theres a crack/ you might not get the same ground to jump to. But hey, why not just put in 8 fresh plugs and wires to go with the new Mags????? 70K volts is a lot of jumping power you didn't have to worry about before!
@@CurtisDrew1 Spark plugs are over $30 each, and new wiring harness $400 or $500
I'll be shocked if the mag is bad. I think its too much draw on the single supply system. The old mag brings the draw back to limits the system can handle. Just my thoughts...
That would only make sense if it ran poorly on both ignition systems but well on one or the other. When he switches to the left, the right stops drawing power
Loving the Stach’ bro! Keep it!!!
I’m studying to get my license, so watching you make me really getting into the mood to study hard.
Jimmy....any update on your guys stolen tools ? Disappointed you did not retool this guy then get repaid thru go fund me page. Have fun...be careful...and stay safe.
Thanks for checking in. Dr Phil is getting there. He’s replaced most of the hand tools. Now it’s about the aviation specific tools. This community is amazing! So many people stepped up to help him out. Very thankful
Misinformation Effect:....The misinformation effect: When our memory for past events is altered after exposure to misleading information. 2. False memory: A memory of an event that is entirely false or partially distorted....Jimmy's/World.....LOL.!
Exactly, on an unrelated note cern turned on again…
@@therealjimmysworld and the berenstean bears changed their name as well. its “Berenstien” now
@@therealjimmysworld CERN.. restarted on 22 April 2022 after more than three years for maintenance, consolidation and upgrade work.CERN/announced on Tuesday7-5-2022 the observation of three new “exotic particles” that could provide clues about the force that binds subatomic particles together.
Table collapse reminded me of when the fbo I worked for in the 80s used fly some Chicago Bears players to camp. Tables in the Navajo were always broken when they got back to Kankakee.
can't be bothered to read all the comments to see if someone else has already suggested this, but check for poor connections in the power supply to the ignition unit that's running poorly. with up to 10 A of current flowing through the wires (what you mentioned the fuse blows at) even a 0.5 Ohm resistance somewhere drops the voltage arriving to the unit to 7 V, which would probably be enough for it to not work at all. the leads on cheapo multimeters could have that much resistance so measuring low resistances with one could take some patience, but even if that's all you've got you can do it with care.
There was 2 obvious problems here. 1st problem was the classic if it aint broke don't fix it. And 2nd problem you let a dummy work on your plane.
Just kidding around love your videos!!!
HB reference was amazing! Carry on- great content as always!
Hey Jimmy personal opinion i think you should really pit the mags on seperate voltage source since they are both drawing from the same source
Try tweaking the mixture setting during run up. I put P-mags on my RV6 and they were very sensitive to that. Love the P-mags.
Ole Memaw would always tell us if it aint broke dont even think about putting a wrench on it@!
I have to agree with some of the others. The original mags may not be pumping out enough for a flaw to materialize. If you have resistance in one of those wire/plug combinations, the higher voltage E-mags may be pushing a bad part to the point where it is forcing the spark to find it's way out. Make sure you get high quality wires rated for these and do a plug swap just to make sure. I find it highly unusual that the MFG would miss a bad coil in QC and send it out like that.
Hey Jimmy, have a good look at the conductivity of the leads. More voltage better wires needed. Being a retired aeronautical engineer, I could hear the engine ‘labour’ a bit while it was running.. check also if you have a small short somewhere as a lot more voltage is running in the engine bay.. good luck!
Seems like a classic case of new high powered ignition causing voltage leakage. Anytime you upgrade your spark you need to upgrade to performance wires and install new performance plugs to handle the increased voltage.
You should hit the parts harder with a hammer. Aircraft engines loves that!!
Don't forget to film it for us. 😉👍