Frigid cave diving seems like if you bundled up most of the natural human fears and put them into a single hazardous activity. Your life is on such a thin margin of error, even as experts.
When I was a fake Navy Seal, I had to fake dive thru fake frigid fake water of fake Russia... lost a lot of fake brothers in those fake seas, it's a fake fucking fake shame... but we never felt fake fear if you were wondering...
TheTayz, exactly. Adding height to the equation would add up to the trifecta nightmare. Mountains used to be the scariest things ever; that was before I knew how badly cave dives could go. Godspeed and happy trails.
If I died doing a foolish, risky 'sport', the last thing I'd want is for my friends to risk their own lives to try and retrieve my corpse. I can't believe the men who died would have wanted their friends to do that, either.
I'm sure it was more to help their families to get closure, and I'm sure that the survivors were racked with guilt and this could help them get some closure as well.
Such a stupid take imo. How is it any riskier than normal cave diving? They have extra equipment, they have a plan, they know the cave and on top of that the cave isn't even extremely hard on their standards. Just because there is a risk they shouldn't do it so they can go die in some other cave instead to not bloat up stats of that particular incident. Or are you saying they should quit their hobby altogether. Surely that must be what the dead men would've wanted.
@@Loll0saurus "how is it any riskier than normal cave diving" because cold as fuck water has a tendency to cause people to become all but completely paralyzed if it starts seeping in, which is a major risk when you dive in a cave with a lot of sharp corners and pointy ends.
I agree in general that it's crazy to die retrieving a body. But there was a pragmatic reason. The Jaris were intact down there. A bit of a shock for another diver to come across. And Jari H was blocking the swim thru. And many other divers were going to be doing that dive. And have done since, I suspect.
Not only did these guys attempt to dive a very long, tight, windy and more than 180 meter deep cave, but on top of that they even did it in the winter when everything was frozen. They really went for next level, no wonder 2 people ended up dying and the Norwegian police forbidding them to go back and retrieve their friend's body.
Thank you for going into more detail and explaining what caused their deaths . Most of the channels that have covered this story have been pretty vague about the actual cause of death. Once a diver is in the middle of a CO2 hit, attempting to hold your breath even for a second or two, to try and switch to open circuit can be a nigh impossibile. That person is on the verge of loosing consciousness and his body will involuntarily force shallow breaths to expel the CO2 and inevitably breathe in water. I can't imagine what it must have been like for his buddy to not only watch his friend die right in front of him but having to continue on into the dark.
Thats interesting. Its hard to work out the whole hypercapnia compulsion to breathe, and what actual partial pressures of Oxygen should the computer deliver in a diver’s panic and tachypnoea. Could the computer be programmed to note this breathing rate, and briefly deliver excess Oxygen, while telling the diver to calm down? And reduce Oxygen supply to normal according to breathing rate?
@@alexandros8361 don't know if introducing *more* oxygen would help with hypercapnia if it comes from a panic attack/dilerium/confusion or some other psychological issue. As the issue (and please someone with more information and experience diving correct me if I'm wrong here) is that they are inhaling and exhaling too slowly or too quickly. It seems you would highten the risk of probably exacerbating the problem: breathing in too much oxygen, while the person already have trouble breathing properly. But idk, I could be wrong. I tried researching a bit into this problem and all I could find is that oxygen therapy *is* a treatment but I wonder if just blowing in more air into a face mask would help someone in a situation that stresses them out as opposed to a controlled and safe environment. I might be overthinking this way too much though.
@@PoptartParasol Yes Im not sure either. Clearly they were using the bailout tanks (which are tanks of their diluent gas with oxygen ) but they didnt seem to work to well either. I suspect that the chemicals in their CO2 scrubbers were quite overloaded, or the CO2 couldnt reach the end chemicals and so stayed in the breathing circuit. Or that under that sustained demand from Jari U and Jari H, their scrubbers were full up. (I found it hard to get data on the amount of scrubbing that would be required for such an extreme dive. I suspect for a calm diver, then it would be fine for the five hours swim thru / deco. ) However it was the Jaris first time in that cave and both Jaris were more scared than theyd admit. (They were breathing too quickly) To be fair, panic by either of them at their final stages was justifiable. Jari H took too many tanks and possibly got caught by one of his hoses in the tunnel. Either way, dropping his scooter, doomed him, as its rope jammed around a rock (you can see it in the 2016 doco). And nobody was getting him out. Then. Jari U had been held up a lot, thruout the dive. He was then stuck in the deepest section, behind the bodies of Jari H, and Vesa, who was still struggling to remove tanks and get past Jari H. Jari U then went too buoyant. I suspect he tried the rebreather again and was too hypercapnic from it, to get to the bailout cylinder in time and went unconscious. So you could be correct and it was the high partial pressure of CO2 that killed him.
It's interesting that free divers have found that if they can overcome that desperation to inhale for a little while, then oxygen starts to return to critical parts of the body (heart/lung) from other sources. Spleen may be one source I recall. Anyway it gave them an extra minute of air. Possibly those on rebreathers could be trained to withstand a CO2 hit long enough to use a bailout and maybe to get to another rebreather. Or maybe not, as their internal O2 deficiency may not be screaming at them, as with freedivers, demanding an even greater diving reflex. Alex
The thing I’ve noticed with cave diving disasters is that when things go wrong it’s always such a minor reason. It always seems like, wth? Everything was fine just 2 minutes ago and now someone is dying. Other outdoor sports it’s usually something major, an injury, sudden bad weather etc, and it’s more of an “oh I see why this happened”
@@Cherubi-chan Just knowing you can't panic, causes people to panic. Often many of these ppl are seasoned divers, and the moment any little hitch happens, they panic and die. If that happens to seasoned individuals, it means the margin of error is too thin.
It's because you breathe faster than the rebreather can scrub the gas for you. I don't even think there is an indication that this is happening until you are in real trouble. Using the same amount of breathing to pull you through a restriction you are stuck in compared to just kicking along whilst also putting in enough effort to free yourself whilst also knowing that you are costing minutes of gas with the seconds you are unintentionally spending at that depth and keeping calm is a big ask for a pro diver. And even if you aren't in the stuck position, seeing the guy who is die infront of you in the only direction you are supposed to go is also likely to get you to breathe harder. And that's enough. Tell a living being evolved to breathe normal air to suddenly not breathe harder when their body is trying to tell them to breathe harder to get more air is really hard. It's barely a voluntary action at that point. And it becomes an unconscious one when your focus may be on impending death and the death of your boyos.
Nnnnnoope.... I'd sooner climb Everest in my boxer shorts than dive in a cave. Ffs any activity that starts with going under the ice on a frozen lake for that matter
First video on this disaster I found that shared the documentary. Thank you for that, it laid everything out extremely well and the footage is horrifying
I'm always curious what the appeal is for diving in these caves during winter. It seems like it makes an already dangerous sport that much more dangerous.
I got halway through the vid before realizing those are finnish names, theres also mistakes in the names written sadly. I do understand finnish names are often ridicilously hard to pronounce for non-fluent persons, so Im not trying to make you feel bad about it, Im just mentioning it. So heres their actual names; Kai Känkänen, Patrik Grönqvist, Vesa Rantanen, Jari Huotarinen and Jari U. Jari U's family didnt want his full name revealed, according to an article by Helsingin sanomat, a very respected and reputable finnish news source Otherwise great vid! Good pacing and narration, also appreciate the mentioning of the document, definetly gonna check that out sometime. Youve got yourself a sub :)
I completely understand to the degree that I can about wanting a body back but I do not think that their friends would want any more lives lost just to recover a body, it's not like a rescue mission. That would not be honoring their memory in fact that would be doing the opposite in my opinion. It's truly tragic and heartbreaking.
It's a Finnish cultural thing - bodies don't get left behind. It was very common in WWII for Finnish soldiers to risk their lives just to retrieve the bodies of their fellow Finns. It's just what we do. And they were as safe as possible about it; they did a massive amount of prep work, and even before that they'd spent the time processing their grief and trauma so that they could stay as calm as possible during the recovery. That's why Känkänen left the rescue dive early, he realized he was emotionally compromised and could not safely dive.
@@dickbong3661 every civilization has a cultural thing of "always retreiving bodies". its not a uniquely finnish trait. nor is it uniquely finnish to be stupid enough to actually try to do it.
Frigid, underground, underwater, narrow passageways with jagged, potentially unstable walls. It boggles my mind to think that any human could consider those factors and arrive at a conclusion of: “sure, this seems like a reasonable and rewarding thing to try”
Just came across this Chan. Thanks for the video amd I look fwd to viewing your fascinating content. Went on dives w/ my pop but only in freshwater lakes. Just the thought of cave diving terrifies me & rightfully so . I’m morbidly cruising into Tubi now for the doc and are already unnerved at the testimonies I’m about to hear therein. Thanks again channel bro 💪
Please do not do such activities because you are bringing lots and lots of unnecessary trouble to other people who must rescue you or recover your dead bodies. Are there no better and safer activities to do on Earth?
Dude, every channel has to start at the bottom. I have a good feeling that this channel is going to take off, I'm subbed and love the content. Don't give up! I believe in this channel!
I really don't understand the point of cave diving. I do understand why people like diving, to watch and explore fish and what not. But what's the point of diving through pitch black, narrowing tunnels, that could collapse any moment, for hours? Even the planning of these diving trips sound to me like a plan of the perfect death trap experience. Why would anybody do this as a hobby? I really don't get it. It's like meeting with your friends on a regular basis to play russian roulette.
There are many reasons why cave diving is such an amazing sport. For one you get to explore an environment where only very few people get to go as a result of the incredibly skill, knowledge, expertise and equipment you need. Caving, whether dry of wet, is earth's last frontier, the only region of the planet where the vast majority still remains to be discovered, explored and mapped. A lot of cave divers, especially the most experienced ones do it with the aim of discovering and exploring caves or sections of caves where no ones has been thus far, making them the first human to ever set eyes on it. Another reason many people are into cave diving is because they like the challenge or even the thrill of doing something that complicated and dangerous.
Yeah, don't do it then. Now days the world is full of people who just refuse to do things, its a competition of who can be more frightened, who has the worst claustrophobia. Who has the coolest OCD or childhood trauma. Nobody cares, and the people out there doing real things don't need your approval. They are true blue. Rare as rocking horse shit and valuable people. Ask the Thai kids from 2018 what they think about cave divers.
@@h.r.hufnstuf4171Ok. And you ask the rescue teams that are putting their lives on the line to rescue recless idiots, that went cave diving. And don't worry, I won't do it... Peace✌🏻
If I ever do this sort of thing I don't want anyone trying to retrieve me, unless there's a reason that isn't just sentiment/emotions. Love your channel, as long as you keep going, you'll blow up!
One of their justifications for retrieving the bodies was getting all valuable stuff (e.g. diving computers) back up, to be given to their families to help with their finances.
@@mikaelviitala833 goddamn... that makes it even darker, other people risked their life not to get the bodies up but because the family needed the money the divers had spent on their equipment?!?!?!?!?!? i mean how much does this stuff cost? did the family have to take out a mortgage to fund this dive?
If you were interested by this check out Australian diver Dave Shaw who attempted to recover a body from Bushman’s Hole. There is a documentary as well.
Everything would’ve been fine if he just didn’t panic. It’s absolutely insane how quick things can go completely wrong. Great video I hope your channel takes off!
The first diver to die was stuck in a very narrow point and I'm not sure they could have freed him with the time they had. The second diver to die, we don't know what exactly happened.
I bet that involuntary rapid breathing is the same thing that makes children who have been crying heavily for a while do a sort of rapid hicupping type of breathing
I love the cold and winter and everything that comes with it, but there is no way I would ever go underwater cave diving in some of the coldest water ever--under ice! Heck, I'm getting claustrophobic just thinking about it.
I want to be a cave diver so badly. It's my lifelong dream. Yes, disasters happen but people also die driving to the supermarket. Overall this hobby is (relatively) safe if you have the proper training and equipment.
@@mayalackman7581 Don't quite agree. Having done crazy sports. You need to go thru all the what ifs..., the cascade effect, and being able to get out alone. But if you survive a few scares, and it's your dream, then go for it. Good luck!
Do cave divers regularly have a legal docu stating whether or not they would want their body potentially recovered in the event of a fatal accident? The men said "we owe it to them" to recover their bodies. Did the deceased say so prior to the accident that they would want this, if the worst should happen?
Now I have a question, is diving in a cave not considered a technical dive even if it’s 400+ feet down? I mean do they not have the same kind of pressure? Idk I’ve seen some remarkable depths some people have gotten to in caves, I think one I saw guys were diving down 900ft or so and as far as I remember at 200ft you start getting nitrogen narcosis. So idk just confusing..
I couldn’t even watch this video in its entirety let alone do a cave dive .I’m not sure if it’s courage or ignorance R. I.P. To all the lost souls that are crazy enough to do it
@@JAF2991 what reason do you NEED to drive that you can't go do on foot. Maybe if we weren't living in unnatural big cities we'd be able to walk to work. if we all just farmed for our own families and communities everyone could live a lil closer and work places would be your backyard. No actual need for cars ever. Never has been an actual need for them. Humans are just stupid.
@@JAF2991 yeah I'm today's society yes. You would. You disregarded my point though. We're living an unnatural life. Caving is more natural for us than living in sky rises.
@8:04 thay impact though 😳 RIP to both divers. It was a bad day to be named Jari. But what i dont understand is how the first Jari (H) still drowned even after getting three rounds of air from his friend. Maybe the narcosis was too far at that point, i guess. Sad story.
What a nightmare...some hobbies are better left alone , like playing chicken with trains as a kid...i can't believe I was doing that at age 8-9....dancing with death is fun when one is a child !....Thanks Sir Morbid
@@friskyisfat I was on a bender of watching missing people cases in national parks and mountain climbing of any kind just looks really dangerous and tiring. Lol
@@marzipug5439 i understand exploring what we can utilize but this doesn't make sense. Whats the ooint of dying and not even being able to convey what we explored?
Cave divers are selfish.. It's not "if something will go wrong".. It's "when".. and "when" it does.. someone has to come and save your alive or dead ass.. putting more lives at risk for your "enjoyment" Cave diving is STUPID. prove me wrong.
Actually No! -He talked about Sami’s role in finding the traverse, -Patrik staying for an extra 20 mins with Jari Hs body, -didn’t talk about Vesa removing his tanks to squeeze thru, -didn’t mention Nitrogen narcosis (which wasn’t an issue I believe) -He stated that Jari Hs gear was caught on the guiding line (whereas I think Jari H had too many tanks, and his scooter line was jammed around a rock behind him, so couldnt go forwards or back) -discussed Jari Us body being stuck on the floor (I know he was on the floor with his legs in the air, and Sami and Patrik had trouble freeing him from his gear, but not sure he was stuck on the floor) -and finally mentioned the large rock falling on Sami in the rescue. None of which is in Scary Interesting’s doco. Though that’s good too. Regards
i truly cannot understand why risk your life to recover a body already dead this is insane when one dies it,s the soul that remains nothing else matters but i notice that many many people give importance to the body,my ex once told me that if he dies i must send him to be burried in his country and he wasn,t joking i told him well you think i,m gonna waste my money on a thing like that if you,re dead forget.
And dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willin' to trade ALL the days, from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they'll never take... OUR FREEDOM!
Water would flood his suit and he would die from hyperthermia. He would not be able to swim out fast due to the bends so he would have to decompress and in the time it takes.(Hours) he would freeze to death.
@@Heart2HeartBooks ah ok what are the temperatures down there, also how does a thin suit keep them warm in such cold water lmk the temperature plz or a guess thx plz get back to me !! Thx for the info I love learning
@@jpop5242 I'd guess that the temperature would be close to +4°C. At least that is the heaviest water gets before freezing so that would be at the bottom. When diving in cold water divers use a warm dry suit under the wet suit to keep warm. A Finnish article about this incident also said that one of the members had argon gas that they could release into their suit to add some insulation against the cold.
![Megan Thee Stallion - Bigger In Texas [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QxTkZTLWdo4/mqdefault.jpg)
![Diggy Graves - Red Vineyard [Official Lyric Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8Ro085T0mnQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Frigid cave diving seems like if you bundled up most of the natural human fears and put them into a single hazardous activity. Your life is on such a thin margin of error, even as experts.
When I was a fake Navy Seal, I had to fake dive thru fake frigid fake water of fake Russia... lost a lot of fake brothers in those fake seas, it's a fake fucking fake shame... but we never felt fake fear if you were wondering...
(was on fake Seal fake Team real 69)
TheTayz, exactly. Adding height to the equation would add up to the trifecta nightmare. Mountains used to be the scariest things ever; that was before I knew how badly cave dives could go. Godspeed and happy trails.
Don't forget: narrow and unstable too.
Mr. Ballen taught me that cave diving is a major NOPE.
Places you shouldn’t go…
@@jonaswhite5842 ...and people who went there anyways. 😐
@@briantaylor9285 🤩
You just need the proper training. Anyone who is not cave certified should never try to go in to a cave. Diving into it or walking into it period.
Me too!!
If I died doing a foolish, risky 'sport', the last thing I'd want is for my friends to risk their own lives to try and retrieve my corpse. I can't believe the men who died would have wanted their friends to do that, either.
I'm sure it was more to help their families to get closure, and I'm sure that the survivors were racked with guilt and this could help them get some closure as well.
I totally agree. I’m not seeing why it’s worth risking their lives for. They are already at peace where they lay.
Such a stupid take imo. How is it any riskier than normal cave diving? They have extra equipment, they have a plan, they know the cave and on top of that the cave isn't even extremely hard on their standards. Just because there is a risk they shouldn't do it so they can go die in some other cave instead to not bloat up stats of that particular incident. Or are you saying they should quit their hobby altogether. Surely that must be what the dead men would've wanted.
@@Loll0saurus
"how is it any riskier than normal cave diving"
because cold as fuck water has a tendency to cause people to become all but completely paralyzed if it starts seeping in, which is a major risk when you dive in a cave with a lot of sharp corners and pointy ends.
I agree in general that it's crazy to die retrieving a body. But there was a pragmatic reason. The Jaris were intact down there. A bit of a shock for another diver to come across. And Jari H was blocking the swim thru. And many other divers were going to be doing that dive. And have done since, I suspect.
Not only did these guys attempt to dive a very long, tight, windy and more than 180 meter deep cave, but on top of that they even did it in the winter when everything was frozen. They really went for next level, no wonder 2 people ended up dying and the Norwegian police forbidding them to go back and retrieve their friend's body.
still panickng and dying so easy, not sure about their experience
They did not die cause it was cold it was panic and narrow tight wall why they died.
They went back and got them
The water temperature probably doesn't change that much. It's cold during the summer and maybe a bit colder during wintertime.
Thank you for going into more detail and explaining what caused their deaths . Most of the channels that have covered this story have been pretty vague about the actual cause of death. Once a diver is in the middle of a CO2 hit, attempting to hold your breath even for a second or two, to try and switch to open circuit can be a nigh impossibile. That person is on the verge of loosing consciousness and his body will involuntarily force shallow breaths to expel the CO2 and inevitably breathe in water. I can't imagine what it must have been like for his buddy to not only watch his friend die right in front of him but having to continue on into the dark.
Thanks for that information.
Thats interesting. Its hard to work out the whole hypercapnia compulsion to breathe, and what actual partial pressures of Oxygen should the computer deliver in a diver’s panic and tachypnoea. Could the computer be programmed to note this breathing rate, and briefly deliver excess Oxygen, while telling the diver to calm down? And reduce Oxygen supply to normal according to breathing rate?
@@alexandros8361 don't know if introducing *more* oxygen would help with hypercapnia if it comes from a panic attack/dilerium/confusion or some other psychological issue. As the issue (and please someone with more information and experience diving correct me if I'm wrong here) is that they are inhaling and exhaling too slowly or too quickly.
It seems you would highten the risk of probably exacerbating the problem: breathing in too much oxygen, while the person already have trouble breathing properly.
But idk, I could be wrong. I tried researching a bit into this problem and all I could find is that oxygen therapy *is* a treatment but I wonder if just blowing in more air into a face mask would help someone in a situation that stresses them out as opposed to a controlled and safe environment. I might be overthinking this way too much though.
@@PoptartParasol Yes Im not sure either. Clearly they were using the bailout tanks (which are tanks of their diluent gas with oxygen ) but they didnt seem to work to well either.
I suspect that the chemicals in their CO2 scrubbers were quite overloaded, or the CO2 couldnt reach the end chemicals and so stayed in the breathing circuit.
Or that under that sustained demand from Jari U and Jari H, their scrubbers were full up. (I found it hard to get data on the amount of scrubbing that would be required for such an extreme dive. I suspect for a calm diver, then it would be fine for the five hours swim thru / deco. ) However it was the Jaris first time in that cave and both Jaris were more scared than theyd admit. (They were breathing too quickly)
To be fair, panic by either of them at their final stages was justifiable.
Jari H took too many tanks and possibly got caught by one of his hoses in the tunnel. Either way, dropping his scooter, doomed him, as its rope jammed around a rock (you can see it in the 2016 doco). And nobody was getting him out. Then.
Jari U had been held up a lot, thruout the dive. He was then stuck in the deepest section, behind the bodies of Jari H, and Vesa, who was still struggling to remove tanks and get past Jari H. Jari U then went too buoyant. I suspect he tried the rebreather again and was too hypercapnic from it, to get to the bailout cylinder in time and went unconscious. So you could be correct and it was the high partial pressure of CO2 that killed him.
It's interesting that free divers have found that if they can overcome that desperation to inhale for a little while, then oxygen starts to return to critical parts of the body (heart/lung) from other sources. Spleen may be one source I recall. Anyway it gave them an extra minute of air. Possibly those on rebreathers could be trained to withstand a CO2 hit long enough to use a bailout and maybe to get to another rebreather. Or maybe not, as their internal O2 deficiency may not be screaming at them, as with freedivers, demanding an even greater diving reflex. Alex
The thing I’ve noticed with cave diving disasters is that when things go wrong it’s always such a minor reason. It always seems like, wth? Everything was fine just 2 minutes ago and now someone is dying. Other outdoor sports it’s usually something major, an injury, sudden bad weather etc, and it’s more of an “oh I see why this happened”
Panicking quickly causes troubles with CO2 :/
@@Cherubi-chan Just knowing you can't panic, causes people to panic. Often many of these ppl are seasoned divers, and the moment any little hitch happens, they panic and die. If that happens to seasoned individuals, it means the margin of error is too thin.
It's because you breathe faster than the rebreather can scrub the gas for you. I don't even think there is an indication that this is happening until you are in real trouble. Using the same amount of breathing to pull you through a restriction you are stuck in compared to just kicking along whilst also putting in enough effort to free yourself whilst also knowing that you are costing minutes of gas with the seconds you are unintentionally spending at that depth and keeping calm is a big ask for a pro diver.
And even if you aren't in the stuck position, seeing the guy who is die infront of you in the only direction you are supposed to go is also likely to get you to breathe harder.
And that's enough. Tell a living being evolved to breathe normal air to suddenly not breathe harder when their body is trying to tell them to breathe harder to get more air is really hard. It's barely a voluntary action at that point. And it becomes an unconscious one when your focus may be on impending death and the death of your boyos.
Nnnnnoope.... I'd sooner climb Everest in my boxer shorts than dive in a cave. Ffs any activity that starts with going under the ice on a frozen lake for that matter
First video on this disaster I found that shared the documentary. Thank you for that, it laid everything out extremely well and the footage is horrifying
I can't imagine the fear of coming into a tight squeeze only to be met with your friends body. Great video, thanks, you got yourself a new sub. :)
I'm always curious what the appeal is for diving in these caves during winter. It seems like it makes an already dangerous sport that much more dangerous.
I expect that the water temperature in the depths stays the same year-round. Like well water.
@@holyworrier According to divers, it is significantly colder in the winter, depending on the location of course.
I think that is the appeal
I've understood from somewhere that the visibility might be better when it's cold.
@@Cherubi-chan I'd also guess this. Summer time there is alga/seaweed even in these lakes. Visibility has to be better during winter.
I got halway through the vid before realizing those are finnish names, theres also mistakes in the names written sadly. I do understand finnish names are often ridicilously hard to pronounce for non-fluent persons, so Im not trying to make you feel bad about it, Im just mentioning it.
So heres their actual names; Kai Känkänen, Patrik Grönqvist, Vesa Rantanen, Jari Huotarinen and Jari U. Jari U's family didnt want his full name revealed, according to an article by Helsingin sanomat, a very respected and reputable finnish news source
Otherwise great vid! Good pacing and narration, also appreciate the mentioning of the document, definetly gonna check that out sometime. Youve got yourself a sub :)
It’s revealed in the documentary this footage comes from.
I completely understand to the degree that I can about wanting a body back but I do not think that their friends would want any more lives lost just to recover a body, it's not like a rescue mission. That would not be honoring their memory in fact that would be doing the opposite in my opinion. It's truly tragic and heartbreaking.
It's a Finnish cultural thing - bodies don't get left behind. It was very common in WWII for Finnish soldiers to risk their lives just to retrieve the bodies of their fellow Finns. It's just what we do.
And they were as safe as possible about it; they did a massive amount of prep work, and even before that they'd spent the time processing their grief and trauma so that they could stay as calm as possible during the recovery. That's why Känkänen left the rescue dive early, he realized he was emotionally compromised and could not safely dive.
@@dickbong3661
every civilization has a cultural thing of "always retreiving bodies". its not a uniquely finnish trait. nor is it uniquely finnish to be stupid enough to actually try to do it.
Frigid, underground, underwater, narrow passageways with jagged, potentially unstable walls. It boggles my mind to think that any human could consider those factors and arrive at a conclusion of: “sure, this seems like a reasonable and rewarding thing to try”
There are places humans do not belong...period.
Thank you for sharing this story. Sad but I’m glad they could get out the two that drowned to give their families at least that comfort.
This story was even more horrifying than the story before. I don’t want anything to do with caves in the water or on land.
Just came across this Chan. Thanks for the video amd I look fwd to viewing your fascinating content.
Went on dives w/ my pop but only in freshwater lakes. Just the thought of cave diving terrifies me & rightfully so .
I’m morbidly cruising into Tubi now for the doc and are already unnerved at the testimonies I’m about to hear therein.
Thanks again channel bro 💪
The largest wedding in a flooded cave 😳. Let that sink in. 💀👀
Please do not do such activities because you are bringing lots and lots of unnecessary trouble to other people who must rescue you or recover your dead bodies.
Are there no better and safer activities to do on Earth?
0:12 "A pair of divers cut a hole in the ice".
Scandinavians must be immune to the cold.
So just like that panic leads to drowning. To be fair that is a very long cave system, sounds like a marathon swim.
Dude, every channel has to start at the bottom. I have a good feeling that this channel is going to take off, I'm subbed and love the content. Don't give up! I believe in this channel!
Right, we all need to keep sharing these videos to get the subs up.
I really don't understand the point of cave diving. I do understand why people like diving, to watch and explore fish and what not. But what's the point of diving through pitch black, narrowing tunnels, that could collapse any moment, for hours? Even the planning of these diving trips sound to me like a plan of the perfect death trap experience. Why would anybody do this as a hobby? I really don't get it. It's like meeting with your friends on a regular basis to play russian roulette.
Beautifully said jenkinz
There are many reasons why cave diving is such an amazing sport. For one you get to explore an environment where only very few people get to go as a result of the incredibly skill, knowledge, expertise and equipment you need. Caving, whether dry of wet, is earth's last frontier, the only region of the planet where the vast majority still remains to be discovered, explored and mapped. A lot of cave divers, especially the most experienced ones do it with the aim of discovering and exploring caves or sections of caves where no ones has been thus far, making them the first human to ever set eyes on it. Another reason many people are into cave diving is because they like the challenge or even the thrill of doing something that complicated and dangerous.
Yeah, don't do it then. Now days the world is full of people who just refuse to do things, its a competition of who can be more frightened, who has the worst claustrophobia. Who has the coolest OCD or childhood trauma. Nobody cares, and the people out there doing real things don't need your approval. They are true blue. Rare as rocking horse shit and valuable people. Ask the Thai kids from 2018 what they think about cave divers.
@@h.r.hufnstuf4171Ok. And you ask the rescue teams that are putting their lives on the line to rescue recless idiots, that went cave diving. And don't worry, I won't do it... Peace✌🏻
@@Lucky-38 I'm sure they know what they are doing and why they do it. Trust in your typical scared ass to have a problem with it though. Funny asf.
Been covered a million times but you did one of the best retellings!
Thank you for the recommendation. I just watched Diving Into the Unknown and it was excellent!
Why unnecessarily risk your life just to see some underwater rocks????
Because few if any other humans have laid eyes on those particular underwater rocks. Still not a good enough reason for me.
Ayyyy loved the documentary on this story too. Great video man!
If I ever do this sort of thing I don't want anyone trying to retrieve me, unless there's a reason that isn't just sentiment/emotions.
Love your channel, as long as you keep going, you'll blow up!
Sorry to late for you these were exp men.
One of their justifications for retrieving the bodies was getting all valuable stuff (e.g. diving computers) back up, to be given to their families to help with their finances.
@@mikaelviitala833
goddamn... that makes it even darker, other people risked their life not to get the bodies up but because the family needed the money the divers had spent on their equipment?!?!?!?!?!?
i mean how much does this stuff cost? did the family have to take out a mortgage to fund this dive?
If you were interested by this check out Australian diver Dave Shaw who attempted to recover a body from Bushman’s Hole. There is a documentary as well.
Ice diving is SUCH a dangerous sport and cave diving equally dangerous. Damn.
Loved that documentary you linked. Thanks man
Wow you pronounce those Finnish names like a natural! Excellent vid.
Hectic video, loved it. You have a perfect voice for narration.
Love your channel. You deserve so many more subs.
i hope your channel grows
I’m familiar with this story but still enjoyed this video! Great narration and use of maps, looking forward to seeing more videos.
Imagine diving it, seeing their gear and just knowing that it could be you.
I never saw the point of cave diving. It's dangerous as fuck and nothing but rocks.... Just stupid really
Everything would’ve been fine if he just didn’t panic. It’s absolutely insane how quick things can go completely wrong. Great video I hope your channel takes off!
The first diver to die was stuck in a very narrow point and I'm not sure they could have freed him with the time they had.
The second diver to die, we don't know what exactly happened.
if I ever die getting stuck somewhere, leave my ass.
Fyi just don't stick yr Arse were it don't belong.
It help u Thow. 🤘😄
I’ll come back for you.
I wouldn’t leave you behind either, Anne
Diving into the Unknown is a good watch.
I bet that involuntary rapid breathing is the same thing that makes children who have been crying heavily for a while do a sort of rapid hicupping type of breathing
I’ve shared your videos with several people - doing my part to help this channel grow and increase the content.
This is the most inspiring tragedy i have ever seen! Thank you so much for sharing this story !:-)
💜🙏⚡️
I hope woody and Gus cover this because I’m confused as to why he would drown when he had a new regulator in hand
Rip tho
Gus probably would say that he was not super smart. That’s why it happened.
Excellent documentary, thanks for the recommendation
Great video
That damn steinugalflasen never fails
I am afraid of diving in my bath tube . . .. and more if you turn out the lights . . . . ahhh noooo wayyy !!
Sad but those aren't friends but family who recovered them! Amazing and brave this is crazy.
Love your video 👍🏻
Thank you for the upload. Going to check out that documentary now. Good work!
I love the cold and winter and everything that comes with it, but there is no way I would ever go underwater cave diving in some of the coldest water ever--under ice! Heck, I'm getting claustrophobic just thinking about it.
Great video, SUBBED.
Albert Einstein's definition of insanity bears revision. Perhaps he had never heard of cave-diving?
Well crafted video. Keep up !!!
You can do it bruh! Keep it up
Thanks for the movie link
Going in darkness underwater,underneath a covering overhead in claustrophobic environment, that is not fun,it's an idea for disaster.
Great vlog! I am from Norway and this was all over the news for a very long time. Not the sport for me…
I want to be a cave diver so badly. It's my lifelong dream.
Yes, disasters happen but people also die driving to the supermarket.
Overall this hobby is (relatively) safe if you have the proper training and equipment.
Steingugleflåget means what? Steinugle = stoneowl, but what is flåget?
@@mayalackman7581 Don't quite agree. Having done crazy sports. You need to go thru all the what ifs..., the cascade effect, and being able to get out alone. But if you survive a few scares, and it's your dream, then go for it. Good luck!
Good video; hope the channel grows!!
Subscribed
Great channel! Keep up the excellent work 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
Why anyone would enter this hell hole is beyond me. Gosh.
Drowning and knowing it so sad .
Do cave divers regularly have a legal docu stating whether or not they would want their body potentially recovered in the event of a fatal accident? The men said "we owe it to them" to recover their bodies. Did the deceased say so prior to the accident that they would want this, if the worst should happen?
No, there is no such document, it's probably something they thought their friend wanted.
@@pieterveenders9793 same issue with Everest climbers, etc
Finns have a strong sense of "Don't leave a friend behind". It's an actual saying from the war time.
I can’t see any reason to expand the risks of SCUBA and /or Drägger rebreather diving beyond what they already are.
Pardon my ignorance…but why can’t divers wear full face mask…??
Hmm.. I guess it could drastically limit your sight and agility? Both of which would be important in tight caves.
The police needed to call in expert divers to get the bodies of expert divers, smh
Now I have a question, is diving in a cave not considered a technical dive even if it’s 400+ feet down? I mean do they not have the same kind of pressure? Idk I’ve seen some remarkable depths some people have gotten to in caves, I think one I saw guys were diving down 900ft or so and as far as I remember at 200ft you start getting nitrogen narcosis. So idk just confusing..
I couldn’t even watch this video in its entirety let alone do a cave dive .I’m not sure if it’s courage or ignorance R. I.P. To all the lost souls that are crazy enough to do it
Why do people do this knowing it's dangerous!!
Same reason you drive everyday knowing you could be crushed by a train or semi truck.
@Six Shooter DhSprts not really, there's a lot of reason you need to drive.
Cave daving not so much.
@@JAF2991 what reason do you NEED to drive that you can't go do on foot. Maybe if we weren't living in unnatural big cities we'd be able to walk to work. if we all just farmed for our own families and communities everyone could live a lil closer and work places would be your backyard. No actual need for cars ever. Never has been an actual need for them. Humans are just stupid.
@Six Shooter DhSprts if you're living in Texas you'll definitely need a car.
@@JAF2991 yeah I'm today's society yes. You would. You disregarded my point though. We're living an unnatural life. Caving is more natural for us than living in sky rises.
People are crazy in the name of adventure
Cool ! Great idea ! What could go wrong ? Huh ? Great adventure … ? Why ? IDK either . ? ? ?
@8:04 thay impact though 😳
RIP to both divers. It was a bad day to be named Jari. But what i dont understand is how the first Jari (H) still drowned even after getting three rounds of air from his friend. Maybe the narcosis was too far at that point, i guess. Sad story.
What a nightmare...some hobbies are better left alone , like playing chicken with trains as a kid...i can't believe I was doing that at age 8-9....dancing with death is fun when one is a child !....Thanks Sir Morbid
Cave diving, free diving, wing suit flying, mountain climbing, cliff jumping diving, caving of any kind, hiking in National parks, base jumping, nope nope nope nope...
Hiking in national parks and mountain climbing are not like anything else mentioned lol
@@friskyisfat I was on a bender of watching missing people cases in national parks and mountain climbing of any kind just looks really dangerous and tiring. Lol
Carry a Personal Locator Beacon if you go hiking in a National park!
Sounds like you are going to grow old with those life choices
@@HerrMikael lol
Whose idea of fun is to swim into a freezing cave? That's a job for a robot or a catfish...
You can buy me the best of equipment and I still wouldn't do such stupid, were not fish!!
Geese ppl it's NOT worth yr life. God Bless 🕊
Nope, human's drive to explore is one of the reasons we're still here. Why stop now?
@@marzipug5439 agreed.
@@marzipug5439 i understand exploring what we can utilize but this doesn't make sense. Whats the ooint of dying and not even being able to convey what we explored?
@@purgetheXYs Well dying isn't the goal.. the goal is to return with a map.
After an ELEVEN HOUR dive..
Nope.
I don’t feel bad for people who think diving into tiny caves under water is a good idea. It’s idiotic at best.
It is a serious NOPE!
Cave divers are selfish..
It's not "if something will go wrong"..
It's "when".. and "when" it does.. someone has to come and save your alive or dead ass.. putting more lives at risk for your "enjoyment"
Cave diving is STUPID.
prove me wrong.
Okay but you literally just plucked the tidbits from Scary Interesting's video on this and did a cheap voiceover lol
i was gonna say that if no one else did. pretty lame!
Ooooh? I don't mind different videos on the same topic, but taking things tit for tat is a big no no
@@MorbidMidnight This is what I kinda figured, I don't blame ya. :p
Nah he included some fun facts like the wedding.
Actually No!
-He talked about Sami’s role in finding the traverse,
-Patrik staying for an extra 20 mins with Jari Hs body,
-didn’t talk about Vesa removing his tanks to squeeze thru,
-didn’t mention Nitrogen narcosis (which wasn’t an issue I believe)
-He stated that Jari Hs gear was caught on the guiding line
(whereas I think Jari H had too many tanks, and his scooter line was jammed around a rock behind him, so couldnt go forwards or back)
-discussed Jari Us body being stuck on the floor (I know he was on the floor with his legs in the air, and Sami and Patrik had trouble freeing him from his gear, but not sure he was stuck on the floor)
-and finally mentioned the large rock falling on Sami in the rescue.
None of which is in Scary Interesting’s doco. Though that’s good too. Regards
Wowza. Nice hit man.
What’s a “stinugelfoogen”?
You mean Steinugleflåget? It's a dry cave that is the other entrance into the underwater cave.
I will never understand this “sport”
Not now. Not ever.
Geez. I can't watch this stuff. Too Claustrophobic. I can't even handle a MRI.
Nice job but I feel like your voice is a little flat, maybe do some work on that.
i ll go hiking ;mountain climbing but no f*king caves 4 me
Watched 7 23 22
i truly cannot understand why risk your life to recover a body already dead this is insane when one dies it,s the soul that remains nothing else matters but i notice that many many people give importance to the body,my ex once told me that if he dies i must send him to be burried in his country and he wasn,t joking i told him well you think i,m gonna waste my money on a thing like that if you,re dead forget.
You’re all heart, Nadia
why, why, why?
And dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willin' to trade ALL the days, from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they'll never take... OUR FREEDOM!
@@Heart2HeartBooks
wtf
Why would a tear in his wet suit kill him
Water would flood his suit and he would die from hyperthermia. He would not be able to swim out fast due to the bends so he would have to decompress and in the time it takes.(Hours) he would freeze to death.
@@Heart2HeartBooks ah ok what are the temperatures down there, also how does a thin suit keep them warm in such cold water lmk the temperature plz or a guess thx plz get back to me !! Thx for the info I love learning
@@jpop5242 I'd guess that the temperature would be close to +4°C. At least that is the heaviest water gets before freezing so that would be at the bottom.
When diving in cold water divers use a warm dry suit under the wet suit to keep warm. A Finnish article about this incident also said that one of the members had argon gas that they could release into their suit to add some insulation against the cold.
I don't get it.
Why all these cave diving mishaps
Don't stop other fools from doing the same thing, this madness!!!
This is why women live longer
Um yeah NOOOOO!!!!!
The point is , there is no point . WTF ?
F all that craziness