no as a member of the church we are just saying that God intended a marriage to be between a man and women, but also to love one another so that is what we do
@@savturner I'm sure you mean well, but this is the reason that Utah has the highest rate of teen suicide and LGBTQ suicide in the country. I realized that if I wanted to stay in the church it would ki!! me, because I wouldn't be queer if I wasn't alive. I, and other LGBTQ people were told this by other members of the church. You can't have it both ways, you can't say you support LGBTQ rights when these are the doctrine and the policies of the church you follow and dedicate your time and money to.
@@savturner seriously, how do you justify widows and widowers getting sealed (again) with their new spouse in the temple? I heard that a bunch of Mormon wives with terminal illnesses are hating the thought of having to share their husband with another woman in the afterlife.
As a gay man, I am disqualified from holding any callings. And even if I get married, because the church doesn't recognize same-sex marriage, I'm still breaking the law of chastity. I don't hold any resentment or anger, but I have no desire to step back in a church building ever. God and I will sort things out when the time comes.
@@Brother_Kevin the creation of religion is the worst sin man ever cast on itself .you to far gone to understand that but please stop actively searching to cause others to convert to you nightmare . Your to deep to understand but u don't have to perpetually spread lies just stop for all that is left in your hollowed out soul let others be happy I know you'll be miserable and hateful for your entire life but you do t owe anyone the favor of spreading your filthy "righteousness " everywhere clean your self up and stand humble like men .....or continue to run around in your pen and think everything on the farm is for the sheep just stop breaking into the horse stable and trying to paint them white
sounds like a win win, go your separate ways... i salute you, you didnt act like an anti church heterophobe like so many posters here. you did it correctly, just leave, and both parties are happy.
"You're welcome here! As long as you pretend you aren't yourself, and are okay with leaders and laymembers openly saying if you ever were yourself, fully, you'll be separated from God eternally!!!! 🌈" 🙃
you have no idea how much this resonates with me. for a time, i was put into weekly conversion therapy and was still going to church. it was horrifying to exist, i couldn’t even go to school without fearing for what would be reported back to my dad from the young women. they don’t love us. don’t let them lie
Thanks for sharing your story 😁 That must have been really hard, and I’m sorry you had to go through that, but I’m glad you’re on the other side, and that this resonated with you! Stay strong!
I haven't spoken to my Mormon family members since I embraced my transgender nature, and honestly, I am not looking for an opportunity to. I don't need their hot takes in my head. The world is cruel enough already.
As a trans ex evangelical, I get it. My family wasn't involved, but I lost my entire friend group. I'm sorry. :( But know God loves that you've been able to express your true self. That's how you were created, and that's what They wanted for you.
I was at the youth summer camp at BYU Utah when same sex marriage was legalized. The leaders called an emergency assembly and expressed their deep grief and disappointment in our country- for 45 minutes. I wanted to storm out of there screaming. I wasn't going to church any more but had been convinced by a friend to go to camp, and had only recently started to realize my sexuality. That was the moment I saw through the lies of "acceptance" and saw the true hateful nature of the church. I never stepped foot on church grounds again.
These LDS beliefs don't just affect LDS people and their children. We aren't LDS but had to leave Utah because these beliefs in our community damaged our LGBTQ family members. Our entire extended family, 4 generations, 11 people, 7 households, left that state. It's a hate-filled community that will abuse children who don't fall into their preconceived notions of what is "right" and it's so, so awful for the rest of us. They say they love you, they say they care, they're nice to your face, and then vote for and pass damaging legislation. I can't imagine how difficult it would be to be LGBTQ in the church.
The Mormon parts of Canada are the same, just utterly notoriously miserable places to live now. Nobody wants to have anything to do with them, they have been ruining communities, abusing kids, molesting neighbors, wallowing in crimes... 💩
100%. At this point, while I might hope they’d choose love for all, I don’t even care which side they pick. Just stop with the Olympic level fence sitting. Either be openly hostile, and let people move on with their lives rather than trying to walk an impossible tightrope. Or get a grip, put all the grand high muckity mucks in a room, ideally with a couple younger progressive members who might have a clue, figure out how to make an actual place for LGBTQIA+ people and then start acting like you MEAN it! By the way, “meaning it” would include stopping with the everyone must get married and have 10 kids nonsense. This is a logistically difficult “mandate” for many within the LGBTQIA+ community, and downright toxic not only for aroace people, but also “normal” couples struggling with infertility.
I had a friend in high school who was openly gay and very Mormon (like he was planning on going on a mission). I once heard him say that his parents knew he was gay and that they weren’t absolutely crazy about their son being damned to hell. It sounded so bizarre to me. I hope he found acceptance.
My feeling is our Heavenly Father made gay etc,. people the same as he made me. He knew what their sexual orientation was going to be and their characters as well. It's common sense that he has prepared a place for me, he has also planned a place for them!!! Our Heavenly Father's love is unconditional to all !!!
Quick question... If you live your life well enough for the highest degree of glory, and someone who is gay lives just as righteously, but married the same sex, will it be the same degree of glory? Will they have the same exaltation to the same place in heaven as you?
@@sipho22 may I ask you, does your Bible have a teaching against those who practice lifestyles that are against the churches RULES. AS AN non Mormon, but I know lots about the belief system. Since the real truth is a man rewrote God's words and invented a really crazy religion That is so outside of God's plan of His Order and plan of life for mankind. Today, this church is reaping the whirlwind of so much false teachings, so much control that was expected in such strick fear, the years of conditioning, brain washing if you allow the truth. You're all trapped... one by being Mormon and then being gay,. You all have freely chosen to follow your Fake Leaders who made up rules that today finds MANY REALIZE THEYVE BEEN SO DECEIVED, AND those who continue to stay and believe the lies. There is no hope for any of you who oppose their rules. So now confused, your crazy idea of heaven has created a panic about eternity and none of you can square it enough to feel blessed Assurance. GODS HEAVEN , HIS PLan of salvation, His plan of Forgiveness is so different from MORMONISM. , Listen again to this podcast,. There is no solution, you either go along and blindly WITHOUT EVER COMPLAINING YOUR LEADERS HAVE NEVER BEEN WRONG.. SURCOME TO THEM BLINDLY AND SHUT UP. BUT SOME PEOPLE ARE WAKING UP AND NOW CREATING SERIOUS PROBLEMS. NO RELIGION HONORS HOMOSEXUALITY NOT EVEN IN THE ANIMAL KINGDOM. But here you are YOU also ⁰ RUN AROUND Trying TO FIT YOUR SQUARE PEGS IN ROUND HOLES tolerance DOES NOT FIX WHAT GOD CALLS UNREPENTED SIN AN ABOMANATION. Jesus said there is NON GOOD ,,, ONLY GOD, SO you keep trying the good angle, GOD DOES NOT COMPROMISE , THATS WHY MORMONISM DOESNT WORK.
To Bobbie Jones,. Did you know God doesn't care about your feelings, Do you know that He has made. NO EXCUSE FOR ANY FORM OF SIN, and you know that even in your weird religion LBGTXQ IS WRONG, Wrong IN ANY RELIGION, UNREPENTED, SIN IS AUTOMATIC DESTINED TO HELL. GOD requires HOLINESS, , GO AND SIN NO MORE,. AND your feelings, and being good doesn't qualify. Remember He didn't make us that way, it was an idea, THAT became so attractive, so real it became a choice. AND THEN IT BECAME THEM. How deeply we love our sin, these folks chose suicide, rather than change. There's no HOPE IN MORMONISM., YOU DONT OBEY THEIR RULES. AND THEIR CONTROL OVER YOU , THEN you. Guys should never question them.
God didn’t make gay people, he made everything perfect but Adam and Eve disobeying God, sin entered the world, the Bible says it is Gods will that all repent, but he gave us all free will, TO CHOOSE, so we can choose to follow his will, or go against it. God clearly states from old and New Testament that homosexuality is a sin.
As a LGBT Christian, those words are not love. It is hateful. Those acting in this way might not see their behavior as hateful, but I can absolutely tell you it is hateful.
You can’t be lgbt and Christian because if you’re a Christian then your word of authority comes from the Bible which is given to us by God, the the Bible clearly condemns homosexuality. I pray honestly that you let go of your lusts and sinful nature and just repent and trust God. Homosexuality is a sin, so is lying, blasphemers, murderers, idolaters, fornicators, effeminate, abusers of themselves with mankind. I pray that anyone who is fighting and battling same sex attractions don’t give up the fight and put everything in Christ. Also would like to put in, Mormonism is false doctrine and should not be followed.
Oh. You're trans. Hate to say it, but what you did to yourself is basically telling God that he made a mistake. I don't really grasp how you can call yourself Christian.
A similar mindset is held towards questioners and pepper in faith crisis. I felt like my body was invited to church, but my brain wasn't allowed. I wonder if LGBTQ+ members feel like their body is welcome, but their hearts, minds, and selves aren't. When I was first in crisis, I found refuge among active queer friends, because they actually were willing to admit that people who feel hurt by the church are still allowed, and their experience is real and valid and worthy of compassion.
You know why right? Because you can’t really compromise the inconvenient truth. Regardless of whoever in this world whose done wrong, always remember, love the person and not the sin.
Hey! As a member of the church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints & Utahn I can say not all of us are like this our leaders aren’t like this at all, now all I’m saying that every member are perfect no not at all, but that life style brings them away from God. So I say this “Bigger the sinner wormer the welcome”. I’m not perfect that’s why I go to church.
I remember confronting my missionary friends about this and a number of other problems I had with the Mormon belief system, their response was “We all sin in different ways.” And yet they’ll praise the love shared between heterosexual marriages. To love someone of the same sex is not a sin, it’s a sin to think you can force your entire community to only have attractions for the opposite sex.
The Gospel of Jesus Christ is about letting go of our own will to follow His command in every instance. All of us, regardless of our backgrounds, have to choose what kind of lives we want to live.
It's for a reason. Women leaders would & have happily thrown away biblical doctrine for the sake of the feelings of those who disobey it. Female leaders highly contributed to the downfall of Rome as well.
The members don't realize they're saying "In God's eyes, and we speak for God, you don't get the opportunities and privileges we value most of all because you're not quite good enough like we are in God's eyes", so you can't have marriage nor family nor that most basic need that is love and companionship. They literally say, "Oh, you can be gay, you just can't act on it!". Then they feel good about themselves saying that and walk away. When perfectly intelligent, educated, good people do such, then yes, they are in a cult.
I absolutely love listening to you guys. Talk about this. So many years growing up in this church and so much hypocrisy. Lie cheat and steal. The worst part is the 95% of people that just want to be good human beings.
And that ten percent can come from gays black brothers perverted scout leaders widows ...We just love you for a small fee of 10 percent of all you own....And then they use the Lords name in vain..."in the name of Jesus Christ amen"..after every prayer after all their thievery..🙊🙉🙈💖 ..
Their actions are screaming louder than their words, but at the same time they are encouraging an aura of shame and falsehoods, especially with what happened with the Boy Scouts and the lawsuits.
As a member of the LDS church, I can say my church's doctrine on this is hate sin, and love the sinners. God says marriage is between a man and woman, they don’t care who your attracted to, but it’s against gods will for a man and a man to get married or a woman or a woman. We believe that they should be treated with the same respect, but they cannot get married in the eyes of god. If they want to legally get married they can, but marriage is between a man and woman. Also be believe in eternal progression and in order to progress we need to be sealed to our spouse and have kids and be sealed to them in order to get to the celestial kingdom.
Linda. 72 ia a very wise person. It is NOT the Mormon Missionaries job to change a person- only welcome them to Church& present the Gospel. All that is wrong with that bus stop person was their guilt!!!!!
The lesson in this is to mind your own business and to keep yours to yourself. Whatever your personal preferences are belong behind closed doors, and as for the church, organized religion needs to be put on a leash. Judge not
@@bbbbbbb51 wrong. That God doesn't exist only the father of compassion and mercy and unconditional love exist to suggest otherwise would insult the true creator of all that is
I’m not a Mormon because Mormonism is a false doctrine and a false religion, I am just a follower of Christ Jesus, and to explain more about love your neighbor as yourself, it means a lot of things, yes love one another but to love someone truly and honestly, you would be honest with them even though it hurts. You would tell them the truth even if it hurts. Homosexuality is a sin and it’s stated all over the new and Old Testament because it goes against how God intended us to be. For example, if if your partner was cheating on you would you want someone to tell you or lie to you saying that everything’s okay because “you’re happy”. Or if your house was burning and you’re asleep, wouldn’t you want someone to break into your house and wake you up to save you? All have fallen short of the glory of God, we all deserve to go to hell because all of us have broken the laws of God or have lived a life that says “f you God” but this is exactly why Jesus died for us, that we should repent and walk away from the sinful life and put out trust and faith in him.
I returned to visit a ward in Dallas and was talking to a male member in the gym whom without warning or permission felt up my pec just as the elders quorum president walked in An emergency meeting was called and the ward was informed I was an excommunicated gay and be warned and I was luring men Then at Sacrament meeting before it began people were pointing at me and covering the mouth with other hand Like laughing at me! No one sat on same pew! After meeting bishopric left quickly then I stood in aisle trying to shake members hands a small group of 5 members approached me and pushed and shoved me to the back of chapel then turned to walk toward bishops office but turned and laughed at me! I had fairly told the bishop initially I was exed and gay but bishop didn't ask my side of story about pec fondling so I didn't volunteer after all that! As I left I couldn't help but think about the great and spacious building vision where people pointed and laughed and thought they had condemned me but had by the Book of Mormon condemned themselves!
I was raised mormon, left, and was approached by missionaries at a bus depot several years ago. I laughed at them and said "I'm lesbian" and those dumb 18 year old boys said "Oh that's okay, you're still welcome!" and I looked them in the eyes and said "You can't fool me, I was raised in your church and I know the way I was treated." They did not know how to answer that.
@@lindabarwick9372 I didn't "want" them to say any thing, just wanted them to leave me alone because I knew from long experience that I wasn't welcome. And "help" me? Girl, please, I've been out of the church for almost 20 years now and it was the best decision I ever made. I'm happy, healthy, free, I don't need the "help" of a cult. Missionaries and the cult of mormonism DO try to change you, and if you don't think so then you have your blinders on. You have to fit a very specific mold to be a "good mormon girl" and any variation is punished.
I'm really glad I left before meeting my husband because our daughter is trans and I adore her to pieces so the brainwashing would have screwed up my relationship with her
when we joined the mormon church in 1972... in the pearl of great price all the revelations of Joesph Smith one of his revelations in there said it was alright for two men to lay together... bet it's not in the newer editions... maybe it is... to be fair I'm not sure his revelations book (you know one of the three they read and love and believe) I'm not sure if it's called the pearl of great price it's been a lot of years sence I was a member and honestly I've prayed all these years to forget the mormon tripe. and Jesus has blessed me in that prayer. he's given me some amnesia on mormonism.
I'm a life long Atheist. I've never understood why gay people feel the need to force themselves into any particular religious group. Especially those whose state homosexuality is a sin. Why not just go start your own church that is 100% the same EXCEPT is allows homosexuality? It's like a man insisting on joining a woman's only group. Just don't get it.
Affirmation of sinful behavior as someone's "authentic self" is not love. Its giving permission to someone to hurt themselves. Suicidality rates among LDS gays and trans are not higher than the world at large. Suicidality is SHOCKINGLY high in the LBGTQ community despite the positive strides and positive exposure in recent years. Love is telling the truth and keeping the promises you make even when it is hardest to do so. There are people in the church who find the opposite gender attractive. They obey Gods command to keep the law of chastity. No sexual relations outside the bonds of marriage between a man and a woman.
Jesus invited everyone to follow Him, but He did ask them to repent and keep the commandments. No one is free from sin, but we're supposed to repent and conquer our weaknesses, not celebrate sin.
If you ask the average Christian the one who truly knows God's word, what answer will you get? I'm talking about those who know scripture. Those who have studied.
Yeah, cause John was only a member of the church for about 40 years, held many church callings and leadership positions, taught the gospel as a missionary for a couple years, went to and graduated from BYU in Provo. What would he know about the church's teachings? Surely he never read the scriptures and studied them.
They'll tell you "Judge not lest you be judged". Even children can comprehend that message. So how is that simple directive ever soooooo "hard" (🙄) for selfish, lazy, rigid bigots to understand... 🤔🤷
Well, I went to Christian schools from elementary through college. My uni even has a seminary school. There are plenty who would say that gay marriage is totally fine.
This is no different than almost all christian religions. In fact the LDS church has progressed much more than most religions when it comes to acceptance of the LGBT. Go to a Baptist or Catholic church.
Well, of course. Seriously- if you're business plan is to have members generate as many new members as possible, and the easiest way to do that is to make new people and then indoctrinate them as much as possible before they have agency and program their limbic system to compel membership once they reach the age of consent. LGBTQ are far less likely to have the number of children as straight families are capable of. If the point arrives where gay and straight families within that structure can produce comparable numbers of children, the doctrine will change. Otherwise, probably not. If this is a media piece truly calling for religious fraud, I don't understand why it hasn't been discussed under secular terms.
so basically the messed up situation the dude in the video was describing? it’s like you want the praise for not being a homophobe, but also want to be homophobic… that’s very christian of you
If the church leaders actually loved LGBTQ members, they would ASK them what they need, what would make them feel safe in Mormon communities/congregations, what their lived experience of being Mormon is like, and how they church can best serve them. Come to think of it, if the church leaders actually loved the membership…same rules apply.
The leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints ask God what His people need. Because I’ve come to know Him, I trust that He knows what I need better than I do.
@@jpr9863 Showing Christ-like love for others includes bearing witness of the TRUTH, regardless of the popular opinion of the day. God loves us too much to leave us as we are. Through the merits of His Son, He changes us into better people, and lifts us to a higher, holier way of living, and there is NO obstacle, sin, transgression, mistake, weakness, or character flaw that His Atonement cannot overcome. The Prophets and Apostles of this church are simple people, just like we all are - flawed and imperfect. But they absolutely DO act and speak with Christ-like LOVE. You can see it clearly if you learn to hear God yourself, and to discern things with your spiritual eyes. They invite all to seek *repentance* and *faith on the Lord Jesus Christ,* as prophets always have.
Interesting. This is not how things are outside of Utah. And I'm pretty sure the church was fighting for LGBTQ equality not too long ago. I'm content in the church being gay.
You've got it all wrong. We welcome everyone, no mater what you identify as or what you are, its just that the Lord does not like the idea of lgbtq, not the people. He loves all his children. Its like sin, he loves us, but he hates sin, hence thats why he sent his son to give us an opportunity to come back home to him
Im a member of the church and Im Bi. my mom fond out thet I was and she always sead "I will always love you no matter what" but she yes it me for being Bi
Watch the entire episode! ruclips.net/user/live1v2YHO0iSCg?feature=share
"We love you as long as you hate yourself"
That is truth 💖
no as a member of the church we are just saying that God intended a marriage to be between a man and women, but also to love one another so that is what we do
@@savturner I'm sure you mean well, but this is the reason that Utah has the highest rate of teen suicide and LGBTQ suicide in the country.
I realized that if I wanted to stay in the church it would ki!! me, because I wouldn't be queer if I wasn't alive. I, and other LGBTQ people were told this by other members of the church.
You can't have it both ways, you can't say you support LGBTQ rights when these are the doctrine and the policies of the church you follow and dedicate your time and money to.
@@savturner seriously, how do you justify widows and widowers getting sealed (again) with their new spouse in the temple? I heard that a bunch of Mormon wives with terminal illnesses are hating the thought of having to share their husband with another woman in the afterlife.
@@savturner As soon as you provide a voice recording of God saying this I will believe you.
My son became suicidal over the plan of salvation. That was it for me. We left right then.
He did not understand the plan of Salvation?
@@jimg.9981 Nobody does , it's pure nonsense
@@efraincenteno2913 To those who are lost, it is foolishness.
@@FleagleSangria dude it's just bs
@@Sofiamilky Tell me more why you believe it is BS please.
Prop 8 was when I truly knew that I could no longer safely be a part of the church. You hit the nail on the head.
As a gay man, I am disqualified from holding any callings. And even if I get married, because the church doesn't recognize same-sex marriage, I'm still breaking the law of chastity.
I don't hold any resentment or anger, but I have no desire to step back in a church building ever. God and I will sort things out when the time comes.
More people should follow your example. Anger and resentment fuels them.
@@Brother_Kevin the creation of religion is the worst sin man ever cast on itself .you to far gone to understand that but please stop actively searching to cause others to convert to you nightmare . Your to deep to understand but u don't have to perpetually spread lies just stop for all that is left in your hollowed out soul let others be happy I know you'll be miserable and hateful for your entire life but you do t owe anyone the favor of spreading your filthy "righteousness " everywhere clean your self up and stand humble like men .....or continue to run around in your pen and think everything on the farm is for the sheep just stop breaking into the horse stable and trying to paint them white
sounds like a win win, go your separate ways... i salute you, you didnt act like an anti church heterophobe like so many posters here. you did it correctly, just leave, and both parties are happy.
You dont know jesus nor what he has done for you. Cults ruin souls.
Your choice. Feel sorry for you.
"You're welcome here! As long as you pretend you aren't yourself, and are okay with leaders and laymembers openly saying if you ever were yourself, fully, you'll be separated from God eternally!!!! 🌈" 🙃
I had leaders go on rants about representation and how the media is “turing too liberal” in my own young men quorum.
@@Awildmay202 those leaders are correct....
They love you so long as they can control you.
This is in every part of life.
@@WhoU8 yes it is.
So tue
Such BS! No one controls anyone in the church! Ignorance is bliss!
@@WhoU8 no it isn’t and I’m sorry you surround yourself with terrible people.
you have no idea how much this resonates with me. for a time, i was put into weekly conversion therapy and was still going to church. it was horrifying to exist, i couldn’t even go to school without fearing for what would be reported back to my dad from the young women. they don’t love us. don’t let them lie
What they don't understand is you need deliverance.
I am so sorry that happened to you.
They were, they *are* evil and selfish.
I hope you are genuinely safe now.
@Rob how does a child say no when they have no agency? Don't be ignorant and hateful when talking to survivors of church abuse.
Thanks for sharing your story 😁 That must have been really hard, and I’m sorry you had to go through that, but I’m glad you’re on the other side, and that this resonated with you! Stay strong!
@Rob who?
I haven't spoken to my Mormon family members since I embraced my transgender nature, and honestly, I am not looking for an opportunity to. I don't need their hot takes in my head. The world is cruel enough already.
hope you’re in a better place hon ❤
As a trans ex evangelical, I get it. My family wasn't involved, but I lost my entire friend group. I'm sorry. :( But know God loves that you've been able to express your true self. That's how you were created, and that's what They wanted for you.
Just why be trans just why
@@xorcerer it’s not a choice
@@babs_babs yes, it is.
I was at the youth summer camp at BYU Utah when same sex marriage was legalized. The leaders called an emergency assembly and expressed their deep grief and disappointment in our country- for 45 minutes. I wanted to storm out of there screaming. I wasn't going to church any more but had been convinced by a friend to go to camp, and had only recently started to realize my sexuality. That was the moment I saw through the lies of "acceptance" and saw the true hateful nature of the church. I never stepped foot on church grounds again.
Good. If you don't believe in man and woman relationships, then go somewhere else.
@@lindabarwick9372 That's not what they said. Did you even read it?
Good.
@Linda Barwick Careful honey your ignorance is showing
*This is a difficult and painful subject for anyone who loves their gay child!*
They said the same thing to African Americans prior to 1978.
They still do……. It’s not written into it as directly anymore, but the hatred is still there.
not true. Elijah Able and African American serve two missions under the direction of the Prophet Joseph Smith.
Stop lying. Race and sodomites aren't synonymous.
Not true.
Uh oh the cultist are in this thread
This is the truth that needs to be said!! Thank you!! ❤
They're literally just like "You can be gay, as long as you don't act gay"
it's abusive.
like when a lover hits you, then cries with apologies, just to do it again once your guard is down.
Mic drop! Well said John!
These LDS beliefs don't just affect LDS people and their children. We aren't LDS but had to leave Utah because these beliefs in our community damaged our LGBTQ family members. Our entire extended family, 4 generations, 11 people, 7 households, left that state. It's a hate-filled community that will abuse children who don't fall into their preconceived notions of what is "right" and it's so, so awful for the rest of us. They say they love you, they say they care, they're nice to your face, and then vote for and pass damaging legislation. I can't imagine how difficult it would be to be LGBTQ in the church.
Glad you left.
The Mormon parts of Canada are the same, just utterly notoriously miserable places to live now.
Nobody wants to have anything to do with them, they have been ruining communities, abusing kids, molesting neighbors, wallowing in crimes... 💩
100%. At this point, while I might hope they’d choose love for all, I don’t even care which side they pick. Just stop with the Olympic level fence sitting.
Either be openly hostile, and let people move on with their lives rather than trying to walk an impossible tightrope. Or get a grip, put all the grand high muckity mucks in a room, ideally with a couple younger progressive members who might have a clue, figure out how to make an actual place for LGBTQIA+ people and then start acting like you MEAN it!
By the way, “meaning it” would include stopping with the everyone must get married and have 10 kids nonsense. This is a logistically difficult “mandate” for many within the LGBTQIA+ community, and downright toxic not only for aroace people, but also “normal” couples struggling with infertility.
That goes both ways ya know !
When I came out of the closet “all” my beloved “brethren in Christ “ rejected me some to the point of violence, but yes they say we love you.
They'll take your money, but they hate you for being gay.
I had a friend in high school who was openly gay and very Mormon (like he was planning on going on a mission). I once heard him say that his parents knew he was gay and that they weren’t absolutely crazy about their son being damned to hell. It sounded so bizarre to me. I hope he found acceptance.
My feeling is our Heavenly Father made gay etc,. people the same as he made me. He knew what their sexual orientation was going to be and their characters as well. It's common sense that he has prepared a place for me, he has also planned a place for them!!! Our Heavenly Father's love is unconditional to all !!!
Quick question... If you live your life well enough for the highest degree of glory, and someone who is gay lives just as righteously, but married the same sex, will it be the same degree of glory? Will they have the same exaltation to the same place in heaven as you?
@@sipho22 may I ask you, does your Bible have a teaching against those who practice lifestyles that are against the churches RULES.
AS AN non Mormon, but I know lots about the belief system. Since the real truth is a man rewrote God's words and invented a really crazy religion That is so outside of God's plan of His Order and plan of life for mankind. Today, this church is reaping the whirlwind of so much false teachings, so much control that was expected in such strick fear, the years of conditioning, brain washing if you allow the truth. You're all trapped... one by being Mormon and then being gay,. You all have freely chosen to follow your Fake Leaders who made up rules that today finds MANY REALIZE THEYVE BEEN SO DECEIVED, AND those who continue to stay and believe the lies. There is no hope for any of you who oppose their rules. So now confused, your crazy idea of heaven has created a panic about eternity and none of you can square it enough to feel blessed Assurance. GODS HEAVEN , HIS PLan of salvation, His plan of Forgiveness is so different from MORMONISM. , Listen again to this podcast,. There is no solution, you either go along and blindly WITHOUT EVER COMPLAINING YOUR LEADERS HAVE NEVER BEEN WRONG.. SURCOME TO THEM BLINDLY AND SHUT UP. BUT SOME PEOPLE ARE WAKING UP AND NOW CREATING SERIOUS PROBLEMS. NO RELIGION HONORS HOMOSEXUALITY NOT EVEN IN THE ANIMAL KINGDOM. But here you are YOU also ⁰ RUN AROUND Trying TO FIT YOUR SQUARE PEGS IN ROUND HOLES tolerance DOES NOT FIX WHAT GOD CALLS UNREPENTED SIN AN ABOMANATION. Jesus said there is NON GOOD ,,, ONLY GOD, SO you keep trying the good angle, GOD DOES NOT COMPROMISE , THATS WHY MORMONISM DOESNT WORK.
To Bobbie Jones,. Did you know God doesn't care about your feelings, Do you know that He has made. NO EXCUSE FOR ANY FORM OF SIN, and you know that even in your weird religion LBGTXQ IS WRONG, Wrong IN ANY RELIGION, UNREPENTED, SIN IS AUTOMATIC DESTINED TO HELL. GOD requires HOLINESS, , GO AND SIN NO MORE,. AND your feelings, and being good doesn't qualify. Remember He didn't make us that way, it was an idea, THAT became so attractive, so real it became a choice. AND THEN IT BECAME THEM. How deeply we love our sin, these folks chose suicide, rather than change. There's no HOPE IN MORMONISM., YOU DONT OBEY THEIR RULES. AND THEIR CONTROL OVER YOU , THEN you. Guys should never question them.
You do know this is a jealous God who makes plenty of mistakes,and seems to disregard the unborn?
God didn’t make gay people, he made everything perfect but Adam and Eve disobeying God, sin entered the world, the Bible says it is Gods will that all repent, but he gave us all free will, TO CHOOSE, so we can choose to follow his will, or go against it. God clearly states from old and New Testament that homosexuality is a sin.
As a LGBT Christian, those words are not love. It is hateful. Those acting in this way might not see their behavior as hateful, but I can absolutely tell you it is hateful.
You can’t be lgbt and Christian because if you’re a Christian then your word of authority comes from the Bible which is given to us by God, the the Bible clearly condemns homosexuality. I pray honestly that you let go of your lusts and sinful nature and just repent and trust God. Homosexuality is a sin, so is lying, blasphemers, murderers, idolaters, fornicators, effeminate, abusers of themselves with mankind. I pray that anyone who is fighting and battling same sex attractions don’t give up the fight and put everything in Christ. Also would like to put in, Mormonism is false doctrine and should not be followed.
i believe the biblical term is abomination
So you're celibate?
Oh. You're trans. Hate to say it, but what you did to yourself is basically telling God that he made a mistake. I don't really grasp how you can call yourself Christian.
@@h.s.lafever3277 Just like bacon.....
Thank you for
STANDING UP
❤❤❤❤
A similar mindset is held towards questioners and pepper in faith crisis. I felt like my body was invited to church, but my brain wasn't allowed.
I wonder if LGBTQ+ members feel like their body is welcome, but their hearts, minds, and selves aren't.
When I was first in crisis, I found refuge among active queer friends, because they actually were willing to admit that people who feel hurt by the church are still allowed, and their experience is real and valid and worthy of compassion.
You know why right? Because you can’t really compromise the inconvenient truth. Regardless of whoever in this world whose done wrong, always remember, love the person and not the sin.
This is a perfect example of how every single Utahn acts. Nice in the front, judgy when you're not around.
Not true at all I live in Utah have been here 20 years only Mormons are judgy
hey! as a utah. over 96% are like this lol. some of us are normal
Hey! As a member of the church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints & Utahn I can say not all of us are like this our leaders aren’t like this at all, now all I’m saying that every member are perfect no not at all, but that life style brings them away from God. So I say this “Bigger the sinner wormer the welcome”. I’m not perfect that’s why I go to church.
I don’t live in Utah and am no longer Mormon. But you are being extremely judgmental yourself.
@@bassethoundlove I do, and it is true. It's not a judgment when it is the truth
I remember confronting my missionary friends about this and a number of other problems I had with the Mormon belief system, their response was “We all sin in different ways.” And yet they’ll praise the love shared between heterosexual marriages. To love someone of the same sex is not a sin, it’s a sin to think you can force your entire community to only have attractions for the opposite sex.
The Gospel of Jesus Christ is about letting go of our own will to follow His command in every instance. All of us, regardless of our backgrounds, have to choose what kind of lives we want to live.
Oh, this is where the crazies come to shout in their own echo chamber 😂😂😂
Religion is about social conformity. Not feelings
This is why I left the Catholic Church… also, just like in Mormonism there is no real authority/leadership roles for women.
It's for a reason. Women leaders would & have happily thrown away biblical doctrine for the sake of the feelings of those who disobey it. Female leaders highly contributed to the downfall of Rome as well.
@@bbbbbbb51 oh, bud. Get help.
The members don't realize they're saying "In God's eyes, and we speak for God, you don't get the opportunities and privileges we value most of all because you're not quite good enough like we are in God's eyes", so you can't have marriage nor family nor that most basic need that is love and companionship. They literally say, "Oh, you can be gay, you just can't act on it!". Then they feel good about themselves saying that and walk away. When perfectly intelligent, educated, good people do such, then yes, they are in a cult.
My life plan: create “ conversion camp” gather evidence, sue the families, change camp name, repeat.
I absolutely love listening to you guys. Talk about this. So many years growing up in this church and so much hypocrisy. Lie cheat and steal. The worst part is the 95% of people that just want to be good human beings.
Love their 10%!
And that ten percent can come from gays black brothers perverted scout leaders widows ...We just love you for a small fee of 10 percent of all you own....And then they use the Lords name in vain..."in the name of Jesus Christ amen"..after every prayer after all their thievery..🙊🙉🙈💖
..
We have to love & accept one another. We don't have to love & accept their choices. We love the sinner, not the sin.
Exactly! A cult is a cult is a CULT...
Their actions are screaming louder than their words, but at the same time they are encouraging an aura of shame and falsehoods, especially with what happened with the Boy Scouts and the lawsuits.
If the Mormon (LDS) Church finds out that you're gay, you'll be asked to leave--and not return...
Outstanding, John, you summarized it perfectly!!
I go by what the Bible says. Gods word never changes. Love the sinner BUT not the sin ✝️🙏🏻
“Gerontocracy” what a word i wish I learned in HS
Yo, I was in a hurry and my brain 100% read this as
"Mormons! Gays and LSD!"
There's no hate like religious love.
Sure you can breath, but you also can’t breath. 😂
As a member of the LDS church, I can say my church's doctrine on this is hate sin, and love the sinners. God says marriage is between a man and woman, they don’t care who your attracted to, but it’s against gods will for a man and a man to get married or a woman or a woman. We believe that they should be treated with the same respect, but they cannot get married in the eyes of god. If they want to legally get married they can, but marriage is between a man and woman. Also be believe in eternal progression and in order to progress we need to be sealed to our spouse and have kids and be sealed to them in order to get to the celestial kingdom.
they want to COMMIT suicide not die BY suicide. suicide doesn't kill them, they kill themselves which is termed suicide.
They understand how vulnerable and fragile people are today. There isn't an easy solution... And you certainly 100% can't tell them the truth.
As a Christian we have follow what God says, not men....
Linda. 72 ia a very wise person.
It is NOT the Mormon Missionaries job to change a person- only welcome them to Church& present the Gospel.
All that is wrong with that bus stop person was their guilt!!!!!
John is really starting to look like the late great Robert “Colonel” Ridgely from 70s commercials and Boogie Nights fame.
In fact very few - I know none - LDS therapists endorse conversion therapy as a standard practice for LGBTQ LDS clients.
It is not just the Mormons. So there is still hope for the lost soul!
The lesson in this is to mind your own business and to keep yours to yourself. Whatever your personal preferences are belong behind closed doors, and as for the church, organized religion needs to be put on a leash. Judge not
AMEN!!!! To be fair, though, this is an unfortunate truth under most religious practices.
Yeah, they welcome them to bring their money! They treat single parents this way too, because they are a threat to the married people!
We know a young Mormon man who killed himself. Classmates knew he was gay. Family is still entrenched in the church. RIP Dylan.
LGBTQ doesn't offend God. His love is unconditional
His love may be unconditional, but his acceptance is not. Saying otherwise deceit.
@@bbbbbbb51 wrong. That God doesn't exist only the father of compassion and mercy and unconditional love exist to suggest otherwise would insult the true creator of all that is
@@AlexLightGiver I love your perspective!!! May I ask what denomination you are?
There is a place for everyone in the house of God. The place is called repentance.
All mormons are leaning to the self loathing side of life..There is no room in that religion for less than perfection..😢😢🙊🙉🙈🌷
Your words are “I love you” but your ACTIONS are LETHAL.
God loves everyone, and he understands everyone.
Reject cults embrace true Christianity
what ???
GET OUT AND QUITE LITERALLY RUN FOR YOUR LIVES.
What happened to love your neighbour as yourself. Big Fat FAIL.
I’m not a Mormon because Mormonism is a false doctrine and a false religion, I am just a follower of Christ Jesus, and to explain more about love your neighbor as yourself, it means a lot of things, yes love one another but to love someone truly and honestly, you would be honest with them even though it hurts. You would tell them the truth even if it hurts. Homosexuality is a sin and it’s stated all over the new and Old Testament because it goes against how God intended us to be. For example, if if your partner was cheating on you would you want someone to tell you or lie to you saying that everything’s okay because “you’re happy”. Or if your house was burning and you’re asleep, wouldn’t you want someone to break into your house and wake you up to save you? All have fallen short of the glory of God, we all deserve to go to hell because all of us have broken the laws of God or have lived a life that says “f you God” but this is exactly why Jesus died for us, that we should repent and walk away from the sinful life and put out trust and faith in him.
Being gsy isn't always authentic. Often it's learned.
Mormon leaders prefer to think that God makes mistakes and that the Mormon leaders know better than God
😂😂😂 Well that tells you exactly what is in a Mormons heart. And it ain't the lgbtq's.
I've watched Latter-Day Saints children who were gay commit suicide because the church did not accept them
Very Typical Utah Mormon Double-Speak
it's very evangelical too. this is all I heard when I came out.
I call myself a half-ass Mormon and the reason why I am not a full member is because of what you just said
I returned to visit a ward in Dallas and was talking to a male member in the gym whom without warning or permission felt up my pec just as the elders quorum president walked in
An emergency meeting was called and the ward was informed I was an excommunicated gay and be warned and I was luring men
Then at Sacrament meeting before it began people were pointing at me and covering the mouth with other hand Like laughing at me! No one sat on same pew!
After meeting bishopric left quickly then I stood in aisle trying to shake members hands a small group of 5 members approached me and pushed and shoved me to the back of chapel then turned to walk toward bishops office but turned and laughed at me!
I had fairly told the bishop initially I was exed and gay but bishop didn't ask my side of story about pec fondling so I didn't volunteer after all that!
As I left I couldn't help but think about the great and spacious building vision where people pointed and laughed and thought they had condemned me but had by the Book of Mormon condemned themselves!
Mormon Stories are sowing tares among the wheat knowingly!
I was raised mormon, left, and was approached by missionaries at a bus depot several years ago. I laughed at them and said "I'm lesbian" and those dumb 18 year old boys said "Oh that's okay, you're still welcome!" and I looked them in the eyes and said "You can't fool me, I was raised in your church and I know the way I was treated." They did not know how to answer that.
What did you want them to say? To try to change you? They don't do that, they are trying to help you, your choice..
@@lindabarwick9372 I didn't "want" them to say any thing, just wanted them to leave me alone because I knew from long experience that I wasn't welcome. And "help" me? Girl, please, I've been out of the church for almost 20 years now and it was the best decision I ever made. I'm happy, healthy, free, I don't need the "help" of a cult.
Missionaries and the cult of mormonism DO try to change you, and if you don't think so then you have your blinders on. You have to fit a very specific mold to be a "good mormon girl" and any variation is punished.
I'm really glad I left before meeting my husband because our daughter is trans and I adore her to pieces so the brainwashing would have screwed up my relationship with her
when we joined the mormon church in 1972... in the pearl of great price all the revelations of Joesph Smith one of his revelations in there said it was alright for two men to lay together... bet it's not in the newer editions... maybe it is... to be fair I'm not sure his revelations book (you know one of the three they read and love and believe) I'm not sure if it's
called the pearl of great price it's been a lot of years sence I was a member and honestly I've prayed all these years to forget the mormon tripe. and Jesus has blessed me in that prayer. he's given me some amnesia on mormonism.
Acceptance and affirmation are 2 different things.
It is too bad that I found exmormon using me for money instead of loving me.
I'm a life long Atheist. I've never understood why gay people feel the need to force themselves into any particular religious group. Especially those whose state homosexuality is a sin. Why not just go start your own church that is 100% the same EXCEPT is allows homosexuality? It's like a man insisting on joining a woman's only group. Just don't get it.
hate with a smile is still hate.
Nothing unholy can enter my house.
Affirmation of sinful behavior as someone's "authentic self" is not love. Its giving permission to someone to hurt themselves. Suicidality rates among LDS gays and trans are not higher than the world at large. Suicidality is SHOCKINGLY high in the LBGTQ community despite the positive strides and positive exposure in recent years.
Love is telling the truth and keeping the promises you make even when it is hardest to do so. There are people in the church who find the opposite gender attractive. They obey Gods command to keep the law of chastity. No sexual relations outside the bonds of marriage between a man and a woman.
Jesus invited everyone to follow Him, but He did ask them to repent and keep the commandments. No one is free from sin, but we're supposed to repent and conquer our weaknesses, not celebrate sin.
Sadly it is not just the mormons.
If you ask the average Christian the one who truly knows God's word, what answer will you get?
I'm talking about those who know scripture. Those who have studied.
Now are you talking about Christians or mormons..Asking for a friend ❤
Yeah, cause John was only a member of the church for about 40 years, held many church callings and leadership positions, taught the gospel as a missionary for a couple years, went to and graduated from BYU in Provo. What would he know about the church's teachings? Surely he never read the scriptures and studied them.
They'll tell you "Judge not lest you be judged".
Even children can comprehend that message.
So how is that simple directive ever soooooo "hard" (🙄) for selfish, lazy, rigid bigots to understand... 🤔🤷
Well, I went to Christian schools from elementary through college. My uni even has a seminary school. There are plenty who would say that gay marriage is totally fine.
Exactly spot on
This is no different than almost all christian religions. In fact the LDS church has progressed much more than most religions when it comes to acceptance of the LGBT. Go to a Baptist or Catholic church.
The guy is incredibly biased.
Well, of course. Seriously- if you're business plan is to have members generate as many new members as possible, and the easiest way to do that is to make new people and then indoctrinate them as much as possible before they have agency and program their limbic system to compel membership once they reach the age of consent. LGBTQ are far less likely to have the number of children as straight families are capable of. If the point arrives where gay and straight families within that structure can produce comparable numbers of children, the doctrine will change. Otherwise, probably not. If this is a media piece truly calling for religious fraud, I don't understand why it hasn't been discussed under secular terms.
I cant, i dont have fancy words i want to go church where gay is welcome but not practiced.
so basically the messed up situation the dude in the video was describing?
it’s like you want the praise for not being a homophobe, but also want to be homophobic…
that’s very christian of you
I highly doubt they'd ever actually "practice" in church, so you have nothing to worry about.
If the church leaders actually loved LGBTQ members, they would ASK them what they need, what would make them feel safe in Mormon communities/congregations, what their lived experience of being Mormon is like, and how they church can best serve them. Come to think of it, if the church leaders actually loved the membership…same rules apply.
The leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints ask God what His people need. Because I’ve come to know Him, I trust that He knows what I need better than I do.
@@Jacob0506The Brethren don't act or speak with Christ-like love. What makes you think they know God or what He wants?
@@jpr9863 Showing Christ-like love for others includes bearing witness of the TRUTH, regardless of the popular opinion of the day. God loves us too much to leave us as we are. Through the merits of His Son, He changes us into better people, and lifts us to a higher, holier way of living, and there is NO obstacle, sin, transgression, mistake, weakness, or character flaw that His Atonement cannot overcome.
The Prophets and Apostles of this church are simple people, just like we all are - flawed and imperfect. But they absolutely DO act and speak with Christ-like LOVE. You can see it clearly if you learn to hear God yourself, and to discern things with your spiritual eyes. They invite all to seek *repentance* and *faith on the Lord Jesus Christ,* as prophets always have.
The book of Mormon written by a murderer
Interesting. This is not how things are outside of Utah. And I'm pretty sure the church was fighting for LGBTQ equality not too long ago. I'm content in the church being gay.
Mormon stories is the moneymaker
Good idea. Let not actually talk about the issue. Maybe people will overlook it if we go all "ad hominem" on him.
Not my ward our ward just helped a couple in our church with adoption so they could be parents
rights and ideology are different. . .mormons respect the rights of LGBT but can not support their (LGBT) ideology. .
Christ teaching does not change for you, we change for him. World will change, but gods word won’t.
Damn the juz r pushing this so hard everywhere. Damn we got to pray for the mormons.
You've got it all wrong. We welcome everyone, no mater what you identify as or what you are, its just that the Lord does not like the idea of lgbtq, not the people. He loves all his children. Its like sin, he loves us, but he hates sin, hence thats why he sent his son to give us an opportunity to come back home to him
Im a member of the church and Im Bi. my mom fond out thet I was and she always sead "I will always love you no matter what" but she yes it me for being Bi
It’s not hateful to teach truth.