I’ve watched a lot of your videos and always impressed with your riding skills, a specially on tech! Hope your health is good and please keep the videos coming 🤙
This would be an awesome bike to own in Colorado. Most climbs aren't too technical (most), but have a little less chunk than sedona. Plus, you can take it to the bike park ad have a blast!
I'll strike this one from my hardtail recommendations to buddies just getting started. I think if a new rider got one of these, they wouldn't have the best beginner mtb experience. Great review as always, brother.
It is interesting that Marin would go so "extreme" with a hardtail. I appreciate their willingness to do so, but like you said it's a very niche bike that most people won't be able to take advantage of. And I really hope they listen to you about the rear tire as they for some reason can't figure out that boat anchors on the rear can really make a bike feel worse than it actually is, and it's a problem that affects many of their bikes.
I bought this a couple of weeks ago and did a 40+ mile event on it on my first ride... definitely need to change the rear or both tyres out as 4200ft of climbing was leg breaking, never had cramps like it before in my life 😂 But on anything facing down it was insanely good, almost as confident as my Marin Alpine trail xr full squish... I love this bike
A heavier bike can feel more planted but like you said can also feel like an anchor. I think this bike is for those that love steel hardtail’s and don’t want to go full squishy but for their adrenaline rush on steep straight descents.
This and your first ride review are spot on. My local shop got one of these and let me take it out. I 100% agree with you. Think the El Roy is just way too much in every category. Picking up an Orbea Laufey because I get along with it so much better!!! Loved your (and Dusty Betty's) review on the Laufey!!!
Ok. This is a thousand mile review of the el roy. One seperated shoulder in the gnarly rock gardens of Spider Mountain, one burly crash on the only xc trail its ever ridden at Cedar Hill State park, and about 600 miles of the extreme ups and downs of Cameron Park in Waco and two days at Angel Fire my observation is this. What does not kill you makes you better. I freaking love the idea of my bike but in general i hate my bike. But it's so freaking rad looking i love it. Long blues at Angel Fire is the only place you wont get hurt on this bike. Trail rides it too slack you hit trees. Downhill gardens its not a full and you get bucked. Big flowy is all it's good at doing. But Damn it's cool looking. Red Raider Scarlet and Black with the boat sparkle. Love it. I should add I ride the Grande. 6'4", my upper body is as long as Shaq and my legs are as short as Colonel Hill. It's "i killed 50 men" bike for sure. One of them is me. I'm done. As a bike nerd I'll hang it next to my 84 Redline Carrera and go ride my Capra.
I wonder if the fork stuttering you felt came from the fork actually flexing and binding due to the super slack HTA. I remember noticing that effect in the Grim Donut huck-to-flat clip. In which case an upgrade to something with larger diameter stanchions might help?
It's quite possible, though the moments i felt it, the fork was nearly vertical in relationship to sea level. I definitely felt it lock up and skid a few times in the steep stuff.
Glad now I ordered one 😅. Just wondering was the frame compliant. I remember you saying that the marin pine was the most compliant frame you rode and the rear looks very similar in the El Roy. Great review 👍
@@hardtailparty Mine has been very compliant and I've ridden a lot of nice steel hardtails. It's funny how even though we ride similar terrain and are roughly the same height, on the same size El Roy, our experiences have been so different. It's been amazing on tech climbs (that actually was what felt most amazing on this bike), just alright on fire roads, great downhill in all conditions. I've lent the bike to a few people and they've had the same experience I did. Your setup (bar and stem, spacers) must be the difference. I kept the short stem, went for a higher rise bar with less sweep and only a 10 mm spacer under the stem.
I ride the trail at Roy’s redwoods in Marin county I think this bike would be awesome there it’s a short not to technical climb and a long flowy loamy downhill
It should be interesting to see if bike design keeps pushing geometry in this direction or if they fall back a bit... Finding the perfect hardtail is really dependent on where you ride, and how you ride, so it's very nice to see such a vast array of options! Its also nice to have reviewers like Steve to show us how these bikes ride since there is no way we can test ride them all. I would be lucky to find even one to test ride where I live. Steve, if you have a opportunity try out the Esker Hayduke. That's the only steel hardtail I've seen in a bike shop up here in Alaska in a long time.
@@hardtailparty I thought about buying the Hayduke back last March, since a local shop carries them... but I ended buying a different bike, which I liked so much, I rode exclusively this summer for all my MTB singletrack riding. Even though I'm not in the market for a bike now, I'm still enjoying your reviews!
Idk about it. I got one trail close to me that it's be good on and I could take it up to angel fire but it just seems like a full suspension would still do it better. I think marin found the limit for aggressive hardtails
WOW, you made Highline look effortless on the up and down with the Cotic BFE MAX. The climbing looked brutal on the Marin. Honzo ESD vs BFE Max vs Marin for PNW/whistler?
Great review...these ultra rowdy hard tails aren’t for me. On the trails that it’s good on I’d prefer my dually. I love a more balanced trail style hard tail that can clear techy climbs, cover long miles and still enjoy a bit of chunk. My alloy chameleon does that for me...but that banshee paradox of yours looks the goods!
Feel like the slackness is keeping the front tire/fork/brakes from controlling rough steep descents. I have not seen you struggle on "hiline" like you did on this bike
I always wondered how a bigger forked, 160-ish hardtail would do on Hiline. I've ridden that trail many times on my Middlechild and feel like I hit the limits of the 140 fork on some of the bigger, faster stuff up top. Oddly enough my 140 full suspension (Wildcat) seemed fine. I kind of came to the conclusion that I don't get nearly as much out of my fork when it gets really chunky on a hardtail, likely from riding more over the front of the bike to negate some of the hits in the rear. I could be way off or maybe I just ride like a goofball, but I feel like you need a bigger fork riding Hiline on a hardtail vs full suspension.
It's crazy how different this trail is in a hardtail vs full suspension. in my opinion, even a 160 fork on a harstail won't make it ride nearly as well as a good full suspension. Nothing beats the traction of a full suspension on stuff like this. Ironically, I'd rather have a 130-140mm fork on a hardtail here than a 160. But you're right. I can ride this on a 130mm full squish a lot faster than a 160mm hardtail.
Good review! I rode this a few times and the only time it felt kinda fun is when i swapped the wheels and tires (carbon/nobby nic), but not a rig i would get excited to ride. Defiantly a shuttle hardtail??
Is there any real drawback going to shorter cranks? I've been struggling with pedal strikes on my current bike and have been toying with the idea of going shorter.
I'll be taking this topic in a dedicated video soon, but i much prefer shorter cranks. One downside is you get slightly less leverage on the cranks when you pedal (especially when you stand).
I use 165 and don't see any reason to size up. Biomechanically you lose like 1% of efficiency or something like that, but you also lower the risk of knee injuries. There are tons of studies about it.
What are your thoughts about the limited sizing? Seems a bit biased towards tall riders to me. Maybe another smaller, 450-460mm reach would make more sense, reducing that huge wheel base
I agree, the sizing seems biased toward taller people... or maybe they just wanted it to be super radical and long. It's interesting. I stuck a couple of my 6'4" friends on this bike and let them ride it for a bit. They said the cockpit felt cramped, but the wheels felt like they were in the right place. Surprisingly, they loved the bike quite a bit once they got used to the "smaller" cockpit for someome 6'4". I honestly think Marin wanted to see how radical they could go, and appeal to those who were looking for a super progressive geometry. It's too progressive for my needs, but I know a lot of people will be excited to be on a bike that cutting-edge.
Too much bike for me. I hope the Sedona MTB festival happens this year so I can get a chance to test out some bikes for myself. I've messaged them twice and haven't gotten a response about buying tickets. If it doesn't happen I will still be there riding though.😀
@@hardtailparty Thanks, at least I will get some nice riding in. Maybe head up and ride in Flagstaff for one day too if it's not too cold. I like some of the trails up there also.
Looking for a new bike, but not sure what I should get. I started riding at the end of the summer, I’m about 6’6 and currently riding a mullet Rocky Mountain Soul with a 100mm Pike. I got to ride for a day at Whistler a few months ago and found that I like steep rocky tech. I’ve only spend 1 day at the bike park, but I feel comfortable bombing down blues and easy blacks. I see myself trying the other blacks and maybe double blacks next time I go. The thing that makes picking a bike more difficult is that I spend about 70% of my time on cross country trails, but I’m thinking that as long as I swap to fast rolling tires, it’ll be fine on an aggressive hardtail? Would the Marin be unusable for those cross country trails? Edit: forgot to add that I live close to the North Shore. The Marin has the reach that I want, but the angles might be too slack for the North Shore woodwork
They'd see this if it were instagram, but I don't think their hashtags and tagging work on youtube. I've reached out to them about a kobain, but I haven't heard back yet.
@@smooothyyy You're not alone. Lots of people are moving here (the trails and town are getting quite crowded). I love the desert though, the sunshine is good for the mental health.
I don't understand this. I found this channel the other week, watched a load of videos, left likes and comments and subscribed. But have never had any videos pop up on my home screen. I get loads of random crap seemingly unrelated to anything I watch but nothing from this channel, odd.
Are you logged in to youtube? And subscribed? Did you click the bell notification icon? I hope youtube is pushing my videos out as recommended to my viewers.
"The Grim Donut of hardtails" lol love it. Great review.
That would be the Doctahawk.
@@Dark__Thoughts just looked it up and wow!
This channel is invaluable. I've ridden and raced all kinds of bikes for decades and I learn so much every time
Thanks for watching
I'm 6'3 with 28ish inseams. So a long reach and steel frame sounds like this is the bike for me.
I’ve watched a lot of your videos and always impressed with your riding skills, a specially on tech! Hope your health is good and please keep the videos coming 🤙
This would be an awesome bike to own in Colorado. Most climbs aren't too technical (most), but have a little less chunk than sedona. Plus, you can take it to the bike park ad have a blast!
Can confirm. This thing shreds in Colorado. Even better with the Z1 converted to coil at 160mm of travel.
I'll strike this one from my hardtail recommendations to buddies just getting started. I think if a new rider got one of these, they wouldn't have the best beginner mtb experience. Great review as always, brother.
I completely agree.
Great video and review. Love the "There's a party in the mountains..." line at the end of year videos. 👍
It is interesting that Marin would go so "extreme" with a hardtail. I appreciate their willingness to do so, but like you said it's a very niche bike that most people won't be able to take advantage of. And I really hope they listen to you about the rear tire as they for some reason can't figure out that boat anchors on the rear can really make a bike feel worse than it actually is, and it's a problem that affects many of their bikes.
I completely agree, I own a 2021 San Quentin which comes spec'd with double Assegai's and for 98% it's too much tyre for me
Seems they didn’t - As the new coloured version has the same DD Assegai rear 🤦♂️
Yep. My Alpine Trail 7 came with Vee Tire Flow Snap 2.6 enduros front and rear. Not my favorite.
Having used the even more extreme hello Dave as my only bike for a while you do get used to a really long reach and wheelbase.
I bought this a couple of weeks ago and did a 40+ mile event on it on my first ride... definitely need to change the rear or both tyres out as 4200ft of climbing was leg breaking, never had cramps like it before in my life 😂
But on anything facing down it was insanely good, almost as confident as my Marin Alpine trail xr full squish...
I love this bike
A heavier bike can feel more planted but like you said can also feel like an anchor. I think this bike is for those that love steel hardtail’s and don’t want to go full squishy but for their adrenaline rush on steep straight descents.
5 days of rain and snow coming this week, baby!!! Those thirsty trails are finally going to get some love!
We need it so much. I can't wait!
I'm going to watch the Big Al review again to remind me how lucky I am :)
that awesome review, awesome bike.. I'm gonna to own this super slack bike
This and your first ride review are spot on. My local shop got one of these and let me take it out. I 100% agree with you. Think the El Roy is just way too much in every category. Picking up an Orbea Laufey because I get along with it so much better!!! Loved your (and Dusty Betty's) review on the Laufey!!!
Ok. This is a thousand mile review of the el roy. One seperated shoulder in the gnarly rock gardens of Spider Mountain, one burly crash on the only xc trail its ever ridden at Cedar Hill State park, and about 600 miles of the extreme ups and downs of Cameron Park in Waco and two days at Angel Fire my observation is this. What does not kill you makes you better. I freaking love the idea of my bike but in general i hate my bike. But it's so freaking rad looking i love it. Long blues at Angel Fire is the only place you wont get hurt on this bike. Trail rides it too slack you hit trees. Downhill gardens its not a full and you get bucked. Big flowy is all it's good at doing. But Damn it's cool looking. Red Raider Scarlet and Black with the boat sparkle. Love it. I should add I ride the Grande. 6'4", my upper body is as long as Shaq and my legs are as short as Colonel Hill. It's "i killed 50 men" bike for sure. One of them is me. I'm done. As a bike nerd I'll hang it next to my 84 Redline Carrera and go ride my Capra.
I dont know if manufacturer's have taken geo too far now
Dude, you should do a review on the Redline Monocog 29r
I wonder if the fork stuttering you felt came from the fork actually flexing and binding due to the super slack HTA. I remember noticing that effect in the Grim Donut huck-to-flat clip. In which case an upgrade to something with larger diameter stanchions might help?
It's quite possible, though the moments i felt it, the fork was nearly vertical in relationship to sea level. I definitely felt it lock up and skid a few times in the steep stuff.
Glad now I ordered one 😅. Just wondering was the frame compliant. I remember you saying that the marin pine was the most compliant frame you rode and the rear looks very similar in the El Roy.
Great review 👍
It was medium complaint for me. It harsh at all, but not as soft as the solarisMAX or the pine mountain 2.
@@hardtailparty Mine has been very compliant and I've ridden a lot of nice steel hardtails. It's funny how even though we ride similar terrain and are roughly the same height, on the same size El Roy, our experiences have been so different. It's been amazing on tech climbs (that actually was what felt most amazing on this bike), just alright on fire roads, great downhill in all conditions. I've lent the bike to a few people and they've had the same experience I did. Your setup (bar and stem, spacers) must be the difference. I kept the short stem, went for a higher rise bar with less sweep and only a 10 mm spacer under the stem.
I ride the trail at Roy’s redwoods in Marin county I think this bike would be awesome there it’s a short not to technical climb and a long flowy loamy downhill
It should be interesting to see if bike design keeps pushing geometry in this direction or if they fall back a bit... Finding the perfect hardtail is really dependent on where you ride, and how you ride, so it's very nice to see such a vast array of options! Its also nice to have reviewers like Steve to show us how these bikes ride since there is no way we can test ride them all. I would be lucky to find even one to test ride where I live. Steve, if you have a opportunity try out the Esker Hayduke. That's the only steel hardtail I've seen in a bike shop up here in Alaska in a long time.
Thanks for the kind words. I've ridden the heyduke. It was pretty vanilla to me. Not exciting to ride, but not bad at anything.
@@hardtailparty I thought about buying the Hayduke back last March, since a local shop carries them... but I ended buying a different bike, which I liked so much, I rode exclusively this summer for all my MTB singletrack riding. Even though I'm not in the market for a bike now, I'm still enjoying your reviews!
I think he's made for large downhill trails, for large bike park with big jump. More DH hardtail than Am/enduro hardtail.
I remember Bike radar doing a custom HT some time ago that was "extreme" and now its not so extreme
im still pestering stif... its gonna happen one day!
Idk about it. I got one trail close to me that it's be good on and I could take it up to angel fire but it just seems like a full suspension would still do it better. I think marin found the limit for aggressive hardtails
WOW, you made Highline look effortless on the up and down with the Cotic BFE MAX. The climbing looked brutal on the Marin. Honzo ESD vs BFE Max vs Marin for PNW/whistler?
Specialized enduro for whistler
Great review...these ultra rowdy hard tails aren’t for me. On the trails that it’s good on I’d prefer my dually.
I love a more balanced trail style hard tail that can clear techy climbs, cover long miles and still enjoy a bit of chunk. My alloy chameleon does that for me...but that banshee paradox of yours looks the goods!
Thanks, i bought ESD
I’m digging the 50 mm stem on my 2020 steel blue pig. Good review man
Feel like the slackness is keeping the front tire/fork/brakes from controlling rough steep descents. I have not seen you struggle on "hiline" like you did on this bike
I wonder if the 2022 got any better? Im looking for a steel frame to build
I always wondered how a bigger forked, 160-ish hardtail would do on Hiline. I've ridden that trail many times on my Middlechild and feel like I hit the limits of the 140 fork on some of the bigger, faster stuff up top. Oddly enough my 140 full suspension (Wildcat) seemed fine. I kind of came to the conclusion that I don't get nearly as much out of my fork when it gets really chunky on a hardtail, likely from riding more over the front of the bike to negate some of the hits in the rear.
I could be way off or maybe I just ride like a goofball, but I feel like you need a bigger fork riding Hiline on a hardtail vs full suspension.
It's crazy how different this trail is in a hardtail vs full suspension.
in my opinion, even a 160 fork on a harstail won't make it ride nearly as well as a good full suspension. Nothing beats the traction of a full suspension on stuff like this. Ironically, I'd rather have a 130-140mm fork on a hardtail here than a 160.
But you're right. I can ride this on a 130mm full squish a lot faster than a 160mm hardtail.
i really want a san quentin 3 video, theres not really any good reviews on it
Any chance you will ever do a Marin San Quentin?
Good review! I rode this a few times and the only time it felt kinda fun is when i swapped the wheels and tires (carbon/nobby nic), but not a rig i would get excited to ride. Defiantly a shuttle hardtail??
Is there any real drawback going to shorter cranks? I've been struggling with pedal strikes on my current bike and have been toying with the idea of going shorter.
I'll be taking this topic in a dedicated video soon, but i much prefer shorter cranks. One downside is you get slightly less leverage on the cranks when you pedal (especially when you stand).
@@hardtailparty Thanks for the reply! That's good info. I'll be waiting your video highlighting the topic!
I use 165 and don't see any reason to size up. Biomechanically you lose like 1% of efficiency or something like that, but you also lower the risk of knee injuries. There are tons of studies about it.
What are your thoughts about the limited sizing? Seems a bit biased towards tall riders to me. Maybe another smaller, 450-460mm reach would make more sense, reducing that huge wheel base
I agree, the sizing seems biased toward taller people... or maybe they just wanted it to be super radical and long. It's interesting. I stuck a couple of my 6'4" friends on this bike and let them ride it for a bit. They said the cockpit felt cramped, but the wheels felt like they were in the right place. Surprisingly, they loved the bike quite a bit once they got used to the "smaller" cockpit for someome 6'4". I honestly think Marin wanted to see how radical they could go, and appeal to those who were looking for a super progressive geometry. It's too progressive for my needs, but I know a lot of people will be excited to be on a bike that cutting-edge.
Excellent 😃
Has anybody got any experience with a 2021 Vitus Sentier VRX? Thinking of upgrading from a 2020 Rockhopper Comp
I don’t like a bike slacked more than 66 degrees. More than 66 feels like I’ve got a wheel barrow out in front of me.
Agreed. Slackest I would ride is mid 65s for really rough trails.
Sweet!
First! haha
I've been waiting for this one. Should be interesting.
Too much bike for me. I hope the Sedona MTB festival happens this year so I can get a chance to test out some bikes for myself. I've messaged them twice and haven't gotten a response about buying tickets. If it doesn't happen I will still be there riding though.😀
I wouldn't count on it happening this spring.
@@hardtailparty Thanks, at least I will get some nice riding in. Maybe head up and ride in Flagstaff for one day too if it's not too cold. I like some of the trails up there also.
Looking for a new bike, but not sure what I should get. I started riding at the end of the summer, I’m about 6’6 and currently riding a mullet Rocky Mountain Soul with a 100mm Pike. I got to ride for a day at Whistler a few months ago and found that I like steep rocky tech. I’ve only spend 1 day at the bike park, but I feel comfortable bombing down blues and easy blacks. I see myself trying the other blacks and maybe double blacks next time I go. The thing that makes picking a bike more difficult is that I spend about 70% of my time on cross country trails, but I’m thinking that as long as I swap to fast rolling tires, it’ll be fine on an aggressive hardtail? Would the Marin be unusable for those cross country trails?
Edit: forgot to add that I live close to the North Shore. The Marin has the reach that I want, but the angles might be too slack for the North Shore woodwork
I'd be happy to help you over in patreon. I have a service where I help people find the ideal bike.
Ok, which did you enjoy more. This bike or the Banshee Paradox V3 in Plus mode?
I talk about it in this review. I much prefer the banshee.
Can you do a riding review of your paradox?
I've done several, check out my channel's videos. It's still one of my all-time favorite hardtails.
@cyclesdevinci #devinci please kindly send Kobain for a review, thanks
They'd see this if it were instagram, but I don't think their hashtags and tagging work on youtube. I've reached out to them about a kobain, but I haven't heard back yet.
Why is Marin running longer cranks these days???? It's made me wanna rethink purchases
It's not just marin. Could be a parts shortage? Or they're just going with traditional crank lengths? Not sure.
@@hardtailparty 175mm on a mtb though.... Dang
I put 165 on mine
Maybe it would work in a size small...?
They only make two sizes: regular and grande
@@Eric-md7lz
Oh ok, thx 👍🏼
Tree
Single speed and just fast downhill laps!!!
if that thing doesnt do technical, no thanks
It´s always sun over there? Im so jealous
Yes. We live in the desert. We almost never get rain, which means the trails are always dusty and thirsty.
@@hardtailparty i think i need to move over :D
@@smooothyyy You're not alone. Lots of people are moving here (the trails and town are getting quite crowded). I love the desert though, the sunshine is good for the mental health.
I don't understand this. I found this channel the other week, watched a load of videos, left likes and comments and subscribed. But have never had any videos pop up on my home screen. I get loads of random crap seemingly unrelated to anything I watch but nothing from this channel, odd.
Are you logged in to youtube? And subscribed? Did you click the bell notification icon? I hope youtube is pushing my videos out as recommended to my viewers.