A couple of things: 1. You mentioned that you are learning Korean faster than you learned Chinese. This is almost always the case. The first language you learn is almost always going to be slow because you're not accustomed with how to actually learn a language. The next language you learn is going to be faster for sure. (and that's not to mention that there are far, far more resources now than there were 8 years ago). Also, I feel like you mentioned in a previous video that you were super focused on /sounding/ native in Chinese and how that wasn't a good thing. After realizing your mistake, you're probably not as super focused on sounding native this time around with your Korean, which helps you focus on other things like vocabulary and grammar. 2. Language classes are a scam in the same way that textbooks are a scam in the same way that language youtubers are a scam. Not because the content is inherently wrong or bad, but because you can't just focus solely on just that medium and hope to get good at the language. You need to go beyond the classroom, just like you need to go beyond the textbooks, just like you need to go beyond language youtubers if you want to get better at a language (and more quickly). At about 5 minutes in your "The Dark Side of Being Good at a Foreign Language" video, you mentioned how absolutely little effort you were putting in. I quote: "I even started a competition with myself to see how little effort I could put in to get A's on exams" and then you go on to say that you were doing the "bare minimum". It kind of sounds like you weren't very interested in learning the language at that point and you were kind of mentally or emotionally "checked out." I don't know your life or your mindset during that time so this could be not true, but it just came across that way to me. Honestly, it might just be the way you learn isn't geared towards learning in a classroom, which is absolutely fine -- many, many people are the same way. Some people actually need classes because it provides structure and support, and helps remove feelings of isolation.
Language classes are good when you studied in the foreign country like i did, i studied chinese at university in China and it isn't the same to study chinese in my country in France. But i agree with you, this person maybe isn't fit to study with others that's our personnal preference too but language classes are good.
1. Yes, I agree that group language classes can hinder progress, but - depending on the approach you take and how much learning you do outside class - they can also provide motivation to learn material (yes, including more academic / higher register material) that you might normally avoid. 2. It would be interesting if you could expand on your method of talking to native speakers, i.e. where do you find them, is this a language exchange (in which you also need to talk in English) etc.?
This is so interesting! Reminds me a little of how I studied a Chekhov play at Russian A Level and could have a debate on worldly topics but didn’t know how to say things like ‘it’s okay’, ‘cool’ or ‘don’t worry about it’ 😅 Thank you for the tips, I should definitely focus more on chatting with native speakers (and getting over the fear of that)!
Totally agree, but it would great if you could talk more about your method like how do you find friends to talk to? Do you start talking to them with zero knowledge of vocab, grammar and the writing system or do you study a little bit beforehand? Thank you so much!! 💝💝
My language class for Japanese has helped a TON... until now. We were just working through textbooks and it was helpful. 5 semesters of this. Now I'm in the 6th and final semester of japanese classes offered at this place and there's so much reading focus that the grammar and vocabulary are thrown off the deep end and I just have to study them on my own which wasn't needed a ton before (like a few hours a week outside of class were all i needed to keep up)
This rings so true for me when it comes to Chinese. At my university, all the Chinese classes are taught in English. It makes our reading and writing fairly good, but our listening and speaking are hot garbage, at least if your not a heritage speaker. There's so many native/heritage speakers in our Chinese classes. There are classes specifically FOR heritage speakers in my school. It's so discouraging when they're the only ones able to speak to our professor in Chinese. For me, reading, writing, and listening are all on a similar level, but speaking is embarrassingly bad when you realize I'm heading for 302 level (Advanced/upper intermediate/HSK5) within the coming school semester. I've brought this to their attention before, saying more immersion in the classroom is critical early on. At this point, it won't be as helpful. Their excuse was that we wouldn't understand the grammar lessons if they taught it in Chinese. However, my Korean classes in the same school are done drastically different. We don't focus on vocabulary as much during class time, instead we focus on grammar points and practice using them, meanwhile our classes are entirely in Korean, giving us that immersion we need and it was given to us early on during our 102 days. When I went to Korea, I had the knowledge to survive but learned even more while immersed there how to say certain things more naturally versus sounding like dialagoue from a textbook. When I went to Taiwan two months later however...Jesus that was bad. I could read and navigate the subway stations but ordering a coffee from 711 made me sound like I was still in 101. I could understand what everyone said to me, but my responses sounded broken and awkward. In the end I feel like language classes can be very beneficial IF TAUGHT CORRECTLY. If they're teaching for the sole purpose of making you pass an exam (like the HSK) then it is a waste of time. If they're teaching for the sole purpose of getting you to verbally communicate and teaching all the fundamentals of that language, they are very helpful in giving you that guidance especially as a beginner so you don't get used to bad habits if you study by yourself.
it's not the same to study in your country and study in another country with immersion. I studied chinese at university in France, the teacher is à chinese person she taught in french but more focused on writing then i studied 6 month at Beijing in China, when i arrived i can speak little in chinese, i can ask help when i'm lost but i didn't learn chinese direction vocabulary in France so when chinese people answered me i didn't understand. The chinese lesson at Beijing were teached only in chinese and we didn't understand the 1rst class because they taught us about formality of our examen but in chinese lol. Then it's okay if they speak only in chinese because we have textbook with english explanation too so we can understand. And i practiced so much chinese in China, i ask my direction in chinese, i almost loose my Phone 2 times and i have to ask about it, that's great i learned the word Phone in chinese and i can ask. And my air conditionner broke and i have to ask help in chinese because they don't speak english. These kind of situation you don't have it when you learned another langage in your country so less immersion and practice. I learn korean now but only in my country so i have less speaking practice
My parents didn't teach me their language so I learned it as an adult and being able to speak with them around the house as I was learning along with talking to my aunt was super helpful.
Oof I really feel this. After sitting through years of mandatory English classes in elementary and middle school in China, I arrived in America not being able to communicate 🫠 I had a much more effective learning experience taking Japanese classes in college in the US. That could just be me getting better at how to learn a language too
My Korean class does things a lot diferently, since my Korean teacheris only teaching me we do a lot of speaking practice and supposedly I actually advance faster than a lot of the students there. I also care more about my Korean class than any other class in my school
It seems you haven't found the right language class but assuming all language classes adopt an intensive reading approach and reading pieces of literature is not useful for language learners is a bit of a generalization. Language classes need to be adapted to the objectives: some people learn languages because they want to be able to communicate while on holiday or brag about their language skills on RUclips. Others are interested in studying literature and need their language skills to study history, politics and current affairs of a certain country or region.
I have had this same experience in my Chinese classes in college! We are taking time to dissect classical poetry and political articles and meanwhile when I was in Taiwan I did not know how to even get a haircut!
It's true if you study from your country but taking chinese classes in China makes you progress faster. I studied chinese in my university in France then i studied chinese for 6 months in 2015, when i arrived in Beijing i can speak little chinese i can ask people when i'm lost but i didn't learn basic words like left, right, straight etc so when chinese people answered me i didn't understand. Then i studied chinese in Beijing for 6 months and i lost my Phone 2 times and i have to ask if they see it, that's great i learn the word Phone in chinese so they can understand me. And another time, in my appartment the air conditionner was broken so i have to ask help but in chinese, they didn't speak english and i didn't have all of vocabulary in chinese but they understand me. But these kind of situation you won't face it if you learn another language in your country without going there and you will lack speaking practice because school teach you more writing that's right. I'm french, even for english, my english speaking skill isn't as good as my writing skill because school teaches me more writing, more translating work etc
Problem is that language classes often move way too fast. Like every week you would learn around 30 new words and 5 new grammatical structures. Problem is there is never enough repetition to fully internalise what you learn which means that eventually you just constantly forget what you did a week or two ago. The third semester it was expected of us to fully be able to express our own opinions and reasoning, in Chinese. Sure I could write something, but in a conversation.... hell no. A few weeks ago I started going to platforms with Chinese people and my conversation skills teleported just in a few weeks and it especially made me so much more comfortable talking. Sure with my HSK3-4 I can't have a deep political discussion or anything, but at least I won't sound like a complete idiot for a few minutes.
For me I'm not interested in socializing and speak with people, my goal to learn foreign languages is the culture (reading novels, essay, watching movies playing video games...).so I focus mainly on reading and listening comprehension.
I want to see people's comments on this video, especially from those who need the language for academic, business and literary purposes and from those who are slower learners than you, who spend less time learning languages at your own, and who have less natural ability to discern sounds and phonemes.
I don’t like class but need it for discipline, though I ended up getting stressed with intensive test-tackling kind of studying. 1 year taking intensive Japanese courses on university-level (Japanese everyday) and I passed the N1 JLPT, but my communicative competence is only kind of N2 (more or less). I can’t even say the simplest thing in natural Japanese (corrected by Japanese friends), use too many formal words (because most of Japanese course in Japan is for higher education, tests, interviews, etc.) which feels weird 😅 The worst is it’s became a bad habit that’s hard getting rid of. 😢
Awesome video and I hope you don't take this the wrong way but your voice had me constantly waiting for an ad read 😂😂. Nothing bad though, your way of speaking is very nice and soft.
I don't think this rule applies to all, English is my second language and English classes helped a lot because they keep me consistent in practicing the language, the other thing is I've never been taught in them something that wasn't used in everyday life or that was too academic but this is probably due to different languages having materials of different nature, I actually found myself with a far worse pronunciation in German (still learning it, it's tourture without classes) than English because eventhough the students around me would make mistakes I have a teacher who is pronouncing them correctly and correcting me from time to time when the difference is a little too hard to pick up on Note:-. Feel free to correct my grammar, and to give tips on German or English.
Your clickbait title is a scam. I've taken 500 hours of one-on-one Spanish classes (plus another 500 hours of input outside of class). 100% worth it. Sorry for your crappy experience.
A couple of things:
1. You mentioned that you are learning Korean faster than you learned Chinese.
This is almost always the case. The first language you learn is almost always going to be slow because you're not accustomed with how to actually learn a language. The next language you learn is going to be faster for sure. (and that's not to mention that there are far, far more resources now than there were 8 years ago). Also, I feel like you mentioned in a previous video that you were super focused on /sounding/ native in Chinese and how that wasn't a good thing. After realizing your mistake, you're probably not as super focused on sounding native this time around with your Korean, which helps you focus on other things like vocabulary and grammar.
2. Language classes are a scam in the same way that textbooks are a scam in the same way that language youtubers are a scam.
Not because the content is inherently wrong or bad, but because you can't just focus solely on just that medium and hope to get good at the language. You need to go beyond the classroom, just like you need to go beyond the textbooks, just like you need to go beyond language youtubers if you want to get better at a language (and more quickly). At about 5 minutes in your "The Dark Side of Being Good at a Foreign Language" video, you mentioned how absolutely little effort you were putting in. I quote:
"I even started a competition with myself to see how little effort I could put in to get A's on exams" and then you go on to say that you were doing the "bare minimum".
It kind of sounds like you weren't very interested in learning the language at that point and you were kind of mentally or emotionally "checked out." I don't know your life or your mindset during that time so this could be not true, but it just came across that way to me.
Honestly, it might just be the way you learn isn't geared towards learning in a classroom, which is absolutely fine -- many, many people are the same way. Some people actually need classes because it provides structure and support, and helps remove feelings of isolation.
Language classes are good when you studied in the foreign country like i did, i studied chinese at university in China and it isn't the same to study chinese in my country in France. But i agree with you, this person maybe isn't fit to study with others that's our personnal preference too but language classes are good.
1. Yes, I agree that group language classes can hinder progress, but - depending on the approach you take and how much learning you do outside class - they can also provide motivation to learn material (yes, including more academic / higher register material) that you might normally avoid. 2. It would be interesting if you could expand on your method of talking to native speakers, i.e. where do you find them, is this a language exchange (in which you also need to talk in English) etc.?
very great point
I agree with you
It's easier to exchange languages when you're offering what a fair amount of people want, ie English.
This is so interesting! Reminds me a little of how I studied a Chekhov play at Russian A Level and could have a debate on worldly topics but didn’t know how to say things like ‘it’s okay’, ‘cool’ or ‘don’t worry about it’ 😅
Thank you for the tips, I should definitely focus more on chatting with native speakers (and getting over the fear of that)!
Totally agree, but it would great if you could talk more about your method like how do you find friends to talk to? Do you start talking to them with zero knowledge of vocab, grammar and the writing system or do you study a little bit beforehand? Thank you so much!! 💝💝
My language class for Japanese has helped a TON... until now. We were just working through textbooks and it was helpful. 5 semesters of this. Now I'm in the 6th and final semester of japanese classes offered at this place and there's so much reading focus that the grammar and vocabulary are thrown off the deep end and I just have to study them on my own which wasn't needed a ton before (like a few hours a week outside of class were all i needed to keep up)
This rings so true for me when it comes to Chinese. At my university, all the Chinese classes are taught in English. It makes our reading and writing fairly good, but our listening and speaking are hot garbage, at least if your not a heritage speaker. There's so many native/heritage speakers in our Chinese classes. There are classes specifically FOR heritage speakers in my school. It's so discouraging when they're the only ones able to speak to our professor in Chinese. For me, reading, writing, and listening are all on a similar level, but speaking is embarrassingly bad when you realize I'm heading for 302 level (Advanced/upper intermediate/HSK5) within the coming school semester. I've brought this to their attention before, saying more immersion in the classroom is critical early on. At this point, it won't be as helpful. Their excuse was that we wouldn't understand the grammar lessons if they taught it in Chinese. However, my Korean classes in the same school are done drastically different. We don't focus on vocabulary as much during class time, instead we focus on grammar points and practice using them, meanwhile our classes are entirely in Korean, giving us that immersion we need and it was given to us early on during our 102 days. When I went to Korea, I had the knowledge to survive but learned even more while immersed there how to say certain things more naturally versus sounding like dialagoue from a textbook. When I went to Taiwan two months later however...Jesus that was bad. I could read and navigate the subway stations but ordering a coffee from 711 made me sound like I was still in 101. I could understand what everyone said to me, but my responses sounded broken and awkward. In the end I feel like language classes can be very beneficial IF TAUGHT CORRECTLY. If they're teaching for the sole purpose of making you pass an exam (like the HSK) then it is a waste of time. If they're teaching for the sole purpose of getting you to verbally communicate and teaching all the fundamentals of that language, they are very helpful in giving you that guidance especially as a beginner so you don't get used to bad habits if you study by yourself.
it's not the same to study in your country and study in another country with immersion. I studied chinese at university in France, the teacher is à chinese person she taught in french but more focused on writing then i studied 6 month at Beijing in China, when i arrived i can speak little in chinese, i can ask help when i'm lost but i didn't learn chinese direction vocabulary in France so when chinese people answered me i didn't understand.
The chinese lesson at Beijing were teached only in chinese and we didn't understand the 1rst class because they taught us about formality of our examen but in chinese lol.
Then it's okay if they speak only in chinese because we have textbook with english explanation too so we can understand.
And i practiced so much chinese in China, i ask my direction in chinese, i almost loose my Phone 2 times and i have to ask about it, that's great i learned the word Phone in chinese and i can ask.
And my air conditionner broke and i have to ask help in chinese because they don't speak english.
These kind of situation you don't have it when you learned another langage in your country so less immersion and practice.
I learn korean now but only in my country so i have less speaking practice
My parents didn't teach me their language so I learned it as an adult and being able to speak with them around the house as I was learning along with talking to my aunt was super helpful.
Oof I really feel this. After sitting through years of mandatory English classes in elementary and middle school in China, I arrived in America not being able to communicate 🫠 I had a much more effective learning experience taking Japanese classes in college in the US. That could just be me getting better at how to learn a language too
My Korean class does things a lot diferently, since my Korean teacheris only teaching me we do a lot of speaking practice and supposedly I actually advance faster than a lot of the students there.
I also care more about my Korean class than any other class in my school
It seems you haven't found the right language class but assuming all language classes adopt an intensive reading approach and reading pieces of literature is not useful for language learners is a bit of a generalization.
Language classes need to be adapted to the objectives: some people learn languages because they want to be able to communicate while on holiday or brag about their language skills on RUclips. Others are interested in studying literature and need their language skills to study history, politics and current affairs of a certain country or region.
Language classes are wonderful if you know how to get the best out of them
Great stuff Kisara. Now I need to get the confidence to actually talk to a native speaker without chickening out😭
Reminds me of how my French teacher just absolutely annihilated my love for the language 💀💀
Omg same , thanks to her I hate French class now and don’t want to learn the language anymore 🫠
I have had this same experience in my Chinese classes in college! We are taking time to dissect classical poetry and political articles and meanwhile when I was in Taiwan I did not know how to even get a haircut!
It's true if you study from your country but taking chinese classes in China makes you progress faster. I studied chinese in my university in France then i studied chinese for 6 months in 2015, when i arrived in Beijing i can speak little chinese i can ask people when i'm lost but i didn't learn basic words like left, right, straight etc so when chinese people answered me i didn't understand.
Then i studied chinese in Beijing for 6 months and i lost my Phone 2 times and i have to ask if they see it, that's great i learn the word Phone in chinese so they can understand me.
And another time, in my appartment the air conditionner was broken so i have to ask help but in chinese, they didn't speak english and i didn't have all of vocabulary in chinese but they understand me.
But these kind of situation you won't face it if you learn another language in your country without going there and you will lack speaking practice because school teach you more writing that's right.
I'm french, even for english, my english speaking skill isn't as good as my writing skill because school teaches me more writing, more translating work etc
Problem is that language classes often move way too fast. Like every week you would learn around 30 new words and 5 new grammatical structures. Problem is there is never enough repetition to fully internalise what you learn which means that eventually you just constantly forget what you did a week or two ago. The third semester it was expected of us to fully be able to express our own opinions and reasoning, in Chinese. Sure I could write something, but in a conversation.... hell no. A few weeks ago I started going to platforms with Chinese people and my conversation skills teleported just in a few weeks and it especially made me so much more comfortable talking. Sure with my HSK3-4 I can't have a deep political discussion or anything, but at least I won't sound like a complete idiot for a few minutes.
For me I'm not interested in socializing and speak with people, my goal to learn foreign languages is the culture (reading novels, essay, watching movies playing video games...).so I focus mainly on reading and listening comprehension.
Nice to see you back. I miss you!
I want to see people's comments on this video, especially from those who need the language for academic, business and literary purposes and from those who are slower learners than you, who spend less time learning languages at your own, and who have less natural ability to discern sounds and phonemes.
I don’t like class but need it for discipline, though I ended up getting stressed with intensive test-tackling kind of studying. 1 year taking intensive Japanese courses on university-level (Japanese everyday) and I passed the N1 JLPT, but my communicative competence is only kind of N2 (more or less). I can’t even say the simplest thing in natural Japanese (corrected by Japanese friends), use too many formal words (because most of Japanese course in Japan is for higher education, tests, interviews, etc.) which feels weird 😅 The worst is it’s became a bad habit that’s hard getting rid of. 😢
Awesome video and I hope you don't take this the wrong way but your voice had me constantly waiting for an ad read 😂😂. Nothing bad though, your way of speaking is very nice and soft.
Great video! Thank you for sharing. I found the idea of creating stories particularly interesting.
Great video, mate
I'm glad you brought this up. My Japanese proficiency became crap😢
I don't think this rule applies to all, English is my second language and English classes helped a lot because they keep me consistent in practicing the language, the other thing is I've never been taught in them something that wasn't used in everyday life or that was too academic but this is probably due to different languages having materials of different nature, I actually found myself with a far worse pronunciation in German (still learning it, it's tourture without classes) than English because eventhough the students around me would make mistakes I have a teacher who is pronouncing them correctly and correcting me from time to time when the difference is a little too hard to pick up on
Note:-. Feel free to correct my grammar, and to give tips on German or English.
You’re absolutely right on the time sink on critical topics
Your clickbait title is a scam. I've taken 500 hours of one-on-one Spanish classes (plus another 500 hours of input outside of class). 100% worth it. Sorry for your crappy experience.
Kisara is back from the dead!!! Ilysmmm
Omg please Kisara please I am your biggest fan I love you so much
The issue is how do you have a language exchange on an app like tandem when their english is gonna be better than your chinese?????
Can you post more? I’m one of ur biggest fans!
What if you don't have anyone to talk to in that language?
What kind of online language platforms did you use to speak with natives?
ハーフs represent!!!
High status material??? In language classes??? What??? Are you serious???
based
Thanks
Kisara I love you so much please