Great note on the overall loudness; I think another thing to consider (You briefly touched on it, arrangement) is that the sound design itself within commercial songs is impecable; Well designed sounds, and arrangements are half the battle when it comes to loudness!
This became crystal clear to me when I started making my own drumsfrom scratch for every song instead of using samples. It’s so obvious to me now how you can’t “fix” anything In a mix unless you literally replace sounds. One should strive to have the song WITHOUT any mixing already to be 60-70% of a completed product
😂😂😂 You absolutley HAVE to love this man! "Home mixes that have uncontrolled low end...but they sound like ass." I LOVE his no no nonsense, no bullshit approach! And for those who don't know and want to receive mix consultations from David, he does NOT hold back when critiquing your mix 😂. Now he has never told me that my mixes sound like ass, but he is brutally honest. But he will also, and more importantly, tell you exactly whats wrong (or give possibilities, and one is always right) and how to correct it. And I love this approach! It helps a LOT while keeping you in check. Ive paid for other mixing services (much more mind you) and didnt get a fraction out of it as I have with David. Thanks for all you do brother!
Also just for everyone who hasn't heard the song I referenced, Supersonic does indeed have all the qualities that were mentioned: minimal arrangement / minimal drums, an almost half time tempo, and not a lot of low end (theres a big dip around 200-500)
I think it definitely depends on the school, and the student, but regardless, as you explained, hands on regular practice with mixing is the only way to actually improve even if you technically “know” and have “learned” how to do it
15:54 I encounter this issue with instruments as well. I am a multi instrumentalist, and many times people ask me to record parts over their mixes or demos. In the past I have done it, but it never sounds right. Once the mix is done, adding another instrument, especially in rock or acoustic music, is worthless. Sounds very out of place. I stopped doing it for the most part and will always ask for original stems or tracks to be available if they want my additions.
Good one! David did you ever think of going to home studios and showing them what can be done with their setup. Making videos of it. Helping mixers that say if only I had this or that my mix would be better. It would be cool to see you show mixers that it's all about knowledge and experience not expensive toys. Not saying I don't like gear but you are right when you say you need to know your tools inside and out.
Ya you probably don't have time for that but it would be priceless to see the expression on their face when you transform the mix on the same setup. It would be good advertising for your mix consultations or private lessons though.@@mixbustv
trust his word only one I take product recommendation from that access analog review changed my mixing it makes u appreciate the gear and make faster and more decisive mixing moves because of the fact your like renting the equipment instead of having it. audio analog gear is made for music and sounds musical even wen u push it hard computers are technical and compute which is not so musical and it wasn't made to be it was made for programs. its not only that analog is better bad way to look at it, its that analog gear is made to do it at the highest level with true electricity intstead of a binary code which can only be that specific code and we love it for that. I think of it like this they're all tools, for specific precisive editing cpu wins for feeling, quality, and when i need a try to stand out in a unique way that can't be beat analog win. you can probably build a house with a saw, nails ,wood, and a hammer if you put the work in which were not specifically made to build a house but exprienced builders can make it work somewhat (cpu) but you can be a building powerhouse and achieve results faster if u had a crane, more workers, and advanced construction tools (analog).
Hey brother! The last question on here made me curious about promotion for engineers. I know you're well established now and probably don't need to do this, but have you ever used paid promotion to gain more mix/master clients?
I have two Fatso and the 76 and I use them all all the time. They're definitely different and they do compliment each other. Fatso for drums, vocals, 1976 for synths, bass , guitar
@mixbustv yes it is absolutely a Mastering step. Let's not kid around here. Even goofy, so called mix bus coloring with various processes is a Mastering step. Anything added on the "master" bus. Obviously
@tordy4963 um did you read what you wrote? A two bus to mix into? So 2ch/stereo. That's a format. That is just consolidating to that format. Anything added to that master bus is a Mastering step. Re train your mind.
David: Thanks for the videos but there's an ongoing thing that drives me nuts and that is a sudden very short jump in the visual part but the audio is okay. It's like your head is in one position but a few frames later it suddenly changes like a bad edit/splice in a reel to reel tape. Like I say the audio is fine but it's in the video part.
A pirate walked into a bar he had a steering wheel around his waste. Bartender says what's the steering wheel for? Pirate says rrrrgh it's driving me nuts!
I think that one thing that people are not talking enough about is that LUFS is broken. it doesn't do what it claims to do. that's the first answer that should be given when people ask why 2 songs with same LUFS can sound diferent in loudness.
@@mixbustv it simply is industry standard aperently because it provides a "density level", meaning that if you get something to -9 integrated it will have a given "density" that makes it louder even after streaming services bring it down to -14....compared to a song targeting -14
I will disagree with a point made. Plugins and hardware now can achieve exactly the same results. Workflow is very different and I prefer hardware because I like knobs. Unless you have a purely analog signal to listener chain it doesn't matter.
Asymmetrical waveforms are normal 99% of the time. The asymmetry in a FULL MIX, unless you're doing a solo trombone album will be beyond minimal and mostly insignificant. But let's play, let's say the client send you a mix with asymmetrical waveform which is NOT due to electrical problems or any other issue, but simply because it's normal on certain sounds. What do you do? Because asymmetrical waveform in a full mix is the result of one of more single tracks with asymmetrical form. Are you gonna go and start rotating phase on each channel on a full mix? And then just pray that you will be able to only affect those with asymmetrical form? In the mix? And not the rest? Right. And you'd do this to achieve what? To gain 1db on your master? I wouldn't pitch this if I was you
Calling it BS, is BS in itself. From experience phase rotation e.g. with RX sounds transparent most of the time. If you get a mix having an asymmetrical waveform, phase rotation is something to try if loudness is in your goals list. Maybe you should practice phase rotation more before making uneducated statement like « it’s BS ». I am not here to give lessons, but calling, in this quote popular channel, « BS » something that you barely (or even never) practice, is just a misleading move. You should probably revise your position by practicing more. Like squats, better practice before talking about them. Anyway!
You assume a lot. Why don't we try? Since you obviously didn't understand anything of what I said in the video. Let's try 10 cases, let's see how many times phase rotation on a mix is the best choice, then in those cases let's see how much you "gain". Let's put some money on it ja?
Would you agree, nevertheless, that symmetrizing an asymmetrical waveform allows to gain headroom? (obviously the headroom gained depends on the degree of asymmetry). And if yes, that it gives an advantage at the mastering stage, because it provides some free loudness?
@@mixbustvthese comments are crazy. So much misinformation out there it’s wild. Never pay for promo? Do people not understand standard business practices
Great note on the overall loudness; I think another thing to consider (You briefly touched on it, arrangement) is that the sound design itself within commercial songs is impecable;
Well designed sounds, and arrangements are half the battle when it comes to loudness!
This became crystal clear to me when I started making my own drumsfrom scratch for every song instead of using samples. It’s so obvious to me now how you can’t “fix” anything In a mix unless you literally replace sounds. One should strive to have the song WITHOUT any mixing already to be 60-70% of a completed product
Spot on!@@bavingeter423
@@bavingeter423you're absolutely right. And if you want a little trick. Stack 909 drum sampls with real ones to get the best of both worlds.
How in the world you keep up with all the things you do?
RUclips, private lessons, mixing and mastering services, etc.
That’s impressive!
It ain't easy for sure 😅
David is the best! No BS - just spittin straight facts🔥
Bro you said it all. Keep up the good work. Truth is strength !!😊
Thanks David. Another good Q and A
brutal honesty on the music industry....thank you for the share
MixbusTV for the win!!!❤❤❤🤟🤟🤟
So well said the part about how to promote music. Thanks for your honesty David, Rock on!
Strong take on promotion at the end of the video
David spittin’ truth as always 🤘🏻
So informative I will joining soon thanks.
Good video thanks, watched the whole way through.
Commercial songs are also mastered at 0db.
Great Q&A, David.
Good questions, great answers.
Nice episode! 🙂👍
Yeah, not just LOUDER , but warmer and rounder. Straight digital is always, sharper and colder.
You find your audience , playing live , gigs. Meeting people, in the scene of your music,
😂😂😂 You absolutley HAVE to love this man! "Home mixes that have uncontrolled low end...but they sound like ass." I LOVE his no no nonsense, no bullshit approach! And for those who don't know and want to receive mix consultations from David, he does NOT hold back when critiquing your mix 😂. Now he has never told me that my mixes sound like ass, but he is brutally honest. But he will also, and more importantly, tell you exactly whats wrong (or give possibilities, and one is always right) and how to correct it. And I love this approach! It helps a LOT while keeping you in check. Ive paid for other mixing services (much more mind you) and didnt get a fraction out of it as I have with David. Thanks for all you do brother!
🙏
Hahaha😅 sounds like what type off ass? A donkeys?
Thank you for taking the time to answer my question
Also just for everyone who hasn't heard the song I referenced, Supersonic does indeed have all the qualities that were mentioned: minimal arrangement / minimal drums, an almost half time tempo, and not a lot of low end (theres a big dip around 200-500)
Wise words, as always!
You and Mixing with Mike are the only official guys on youtube
Produce like a Pro also!
Tbh there are few who are really good but they don't do as much content.
@@AG-wg4zi true
and Andrew Zeleno!! (‘Compressor is EQ’)🎉
Hahaha 😅What makes it official?
Love My Studio Recording 😍😍😍
That's why acoustic folk music sounds loud even if usually lower luf compared to the other song with "volume normalization"
I think it definitely depends on the school, and the student, but regardless, as you explained, hands on regular practice with mixing is the only way to actually improve even if you technically “know” and have “learned” how to do it
thank you
Words of wisdom
Vocals is an instrument!! Period!
15:54 I encounter this issue with instruments as well. I am a multi instrumentalist, and many times people ask me to record parts over their mixes or demos. In the past I have done it, but it never sounds right. Once the mix is done, adding another instrument, especially in rock or acoustic music, is worthless. Sounds very out of place. I stopped doing it for the most part and will always ask for original stems or tracks to be available if they want my additions.
Good one! David did you ever think of going to home studios and showing them what can be done with their setup. Making videos of it. Helping mixers that say if only I had this or that my mix would be better. It would be cool to see you show mixers that it's all about knowledge and experience not expensive toys. Not saying I don't like gear but you are right when you say you need to know your tools inside and out.
lol for free? 😂😂
Ya you probably don't have time for that but it would be priceless to see the expression on their face when you transform the mix on the same setup. It would be good advertising for your mix consultations or private lessons though.@@mixbustv
🔥
Do you still use p42 climax? If yes, for what purpose? What does it gives you?
It's not that we don't understand your music Dear, we just don't like it!
trust his word only one I take product recommendation from that access analog review changed my mixing it makes u appreciate the gear and make faster and more decisive mixing moves because of the fact your like renting the equipment instead of having it. audio analog gear is made for music and sounds musical even wen u push it hard computers are technical and compute which is not so musical and it wasn't made to be it was made for programs. its not only that analog is better bad way to look at it, its that analog gear is made to do it at the highest level with true electricity intstead of a binary code which can only be that specific code and we love it for that. I think of it like this they're all tools, for specific precisive editing cpu wins for feeling, quality, and when i need a try to stand out in a unique way that can't be beat analog win. you can probably build a house with a saw, nails ,wood, and a hammer if you put the work in which were not specifically made to build a house but exprienced builders can make it work somewhat (cpu) but you can be a building powerhouse and achieve results faster if u had a crane, more workers, and advanced construction tools (analog).
Hey brother! The last question on here made me curious about promotion for engineers. I know you're well established now and probably don't need to do this, but have you ever used paid promotion to gain more mix/master clients?
I never did but if I was to go back I probably would.
Hey Dave, what analog saturator would you recommend: the fatso or the drawmer 1976? Would both compliment each other?
I have two Fatso and the 76 and I use them all all the time. They're definitely different and they do compliment each other. Fatso for drums, vocals, 1976 for synths, bass , guitar
@@mixbustv great because I’m sold on both. Would a culture vulture or karacter be a waste of money as an addition?
For crying out. Anything added on the mix bus is Mastering. Mix bus processing is a Mastering step. Period.
No it's not. Absolutely not
@mixbustv yes it is absolutely a Mastering step. Let's not kid around here. Even goofy, so called mix bus coloring with various processes is a Mastering step. Anything added on the "master" bus. Obviously
@@synthzizer3324nah bro. Having a 2 bus to mix into isn’t the same thing as mastering. I’d love to hear your music btw
@tordy4963 um did you read what you wrote? A two bus to mix into? So 2ch/stereo. That's a format. That is just consolidating to that format. Anything added to that master bus is a Mastering step. Re train your mind.
What you thing is a good starting settings of 542 using them through mixing as stereo bus?Thank you.
Red XF at 9 o'clock, sat at 11 o'clock, blend at 9 o'clock 15ips, hit 1st amber light at the highest peaks
Thanks!!Your doing excellent job my friend.
David: Thanks for the videos but there's an ongoing thing that drives me nuts and that is a sudden very short jump in the visual part but the audio is okay. It's like your head is in one position but a few frames later it suddenly changes like a bad edit/splice in a reel to reel tape. Like I say the audio is fine but it's in the video part.
That drives you nuts? Lol it doesn't take much
A pirate walked into a bar he had a steering wheel around his waste. Bartender says what's the steering wheel for?
Pirate says rrrrgh it's driving me nuts!
It's weird and distracting. I have to ask what's causing it? I'm guessing it's intentional. Even my wife wonders what's up with that.
I think that one thing that people are not talking enough about is that LUFS is broken. it doesn't do what it claims to do. that's the first answer that should be given when people ask why 2 songs with same LUFS can sound diferent in loudness.
Right :D that's why is universally recognized as the industry standard, because it's broken
@@mixbustv are you beeing sarcastic? how is it not broken if it obviously fails to measure actual perceived loudness?
@@mixbustv it simply is industry standard aperently because it provides a "density level", meaning that if you get something to -9 integrated it will have a given "density" that makes it louder even after streaming services bring it down to -14....compared to a song targeting -14
I will disagree with a point made. Plugins and hardware now can achieve exactly the same results. Workflow is very different and I prefer hardware because I like knobs. Unless you have a purely analog signal to listener chain it doesn't matter.
Exactly the same results? Wanna bet some money on it?
Asymmetrical waveforms prevent maximizing loudness. It IS to be considered at the mastering stage.
Asymmetrical waveforms are normal 99% of the time. The asymmetry in a FULL MIX, unless you're doing a solo trombone album will be beyond minimal and mostly insignificant. But let's play, let's say the client send you a mix with asymmetrical waveform which is NOT due to electrical problems or any other issue, but simply because it's normal on certain sounds. What do you do? Because asymmetrical waveform in a full mix is the result of one of more single tracks with asymmetrical form. Are you gonna go and start rotating phase on each channel on a full mix? And then just pray that you will be able to only affect those with asymmetrical form? In the mix? And not the rest? Right. And you'd do this to achieve what? To gain 1db on your master? I wouldn't pitch this if I was you
Calling it BS, is BS in itself. From experience phase rotation e.g. with RX sounds transparent most of the time. If you get a mix having an asymmetrical waveform, phase rotation is something to try if loudness is in your goals list.
Maybe you should practice phase rotation more before making uneducated statement like « it’s BS ». I am not here to give lessons, but calling, in this quote popular channel, « BS » something that you barely (or even never) practice, is just a misleading move.
You should probably revise your position by practicing more. Like squats, better practice before talking about them.
Anyway!
You assume a lot. Why don't we try? Since you obviously didn't understand anything of what I said in the video. Let's try 10 cases, let's see how many times phase rotation on a mix is the best choice, then in those cases let's see how much you "gain". Let's put some money on it ja?
Let’s find out.
Would you agree, nevertheless, that symmetrizing an asymmetrical waveform allows to gain headroom? (obviously the headroom gained depends on the degree of asymmetry).
And if yes, that it gives an advantage at the mastering stage, because it provides some free loudness?
There's so many ways to get free music promotion.
You should never pay for it
I'm not sure if you're being serious. I hope not
@mixbustv sorry I'll simplify it for you,
there's so many free ways to promote your music if your paying for it your a sucker.
@@mixbustvthese comments are crazy. So much misinformation out there it’s wild. Never pay for promo? Do people not understand standard business practices