How We Have Tweaked Our Lumber Kiln to Be More Efficient!
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
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Lee Ross is an artisan knife maker. Each piece is custom crafted it to fit the owners hand. Truly a work of art, you have to see one to believe it!
leerossck@gmail.com
It looks like you are on track for drying lumber, I think you need to know what your relative humidity is in your kiln before you start venting. Your wood stove is venting inside moist air out of the chimney. If your RH gets to low at the wrong time in drying process you will cause drying defects. I left a comment in the other kiln clip about the Dry kiln operator manual published by the USDA. Try and get a copy and look at the RH tables and how they relate to moisture content. Keep it going. Knowledge is power! Share it! And we all will succeed!
One old trick that was used by many pioneers was to have the exhaust pipe for the stove turn 90 degrees as soon as it comes out of the stove and then run horizontally across the room, turn up 90 degrees and then exit outside. This allows much of the heat of the exhaust pipe be released into the room at a low level. In your case you could run the pipe down both the back and side walls and untilize most of the heat that is lost to the outside. I see the exhaust pipe already has two 90 degree bends on it. Makes a heck of a towel warmer.
only concern might be creosote build up from burning. chimney fires are scary it sounds like a vibrating jet engine and is scary as all heck.
Fact. Just needs to be cleaned seasonally.
@@xmas4203 Not mine. My guess is they are burning a fair bit of green wood.
@@xmas4203 i agree but i do not know enough to give a more valid review concerning creosote. i just get concerned. i heard that my neighbor had a chimney fire in massive brick and stone fireplace and two story chimney that was built professionally and routinely cleaned and use dry hardwood firewood. what caused the fire and i still do not know why. i just know the fire department was over there.
another after thought is to make sure that each section of stove pipe be fastened with sheet metal screws so the stove pipe does not separate.
Beyond the obvious creosote issues created when burning softwoods, CO issues also come into play. Probably not an issue in this case, but something to think about all the same...
It's kind of late to make this change unless you want to add another course of cinder blocks to your enclosure for the wood furnace and raise the roof a bit, but they sell non-electric fans for wood stoves and furnaces that require absolutely no external power. They work by heat convection. You simply mount or place the fan on top of the heat source and a blade that is powered by the heat rising from below spins they blade and pushes heated air forward. They are relatively efficient in that that they will even work if set a a wire shelf on top of a Mr. Buddy propane heater. Last I checked, they were around fifty bucks and a couple of those would certainly be cheaper than running a generator.
Grandpa does great work ! This whole family's talent level is off the charts
he decided a warm kiln is better than going to florida in the winter.
Emerald ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ no video yesterday. I was having Emerald withdrawals 🥰🥰🥰🥰
The big overhead fan is a bad idea. It will case harden the top of the stack and defeats the air circulation pattern through the stickers openings in the rest of the stack.. You have not added the baffle (air curtain). That's a very important feature for proper circulation and it's a very inexpensive addition. Your exhaust vents should be located high - the opposite of your heat source. Don't exceed 100 degrees. You have so many uncontrolled variables that you must go slow or risk destroying your lumber. I wish you the best of luck 🙂
Unfortunately, you are correct. Way too many uncontrolled variables. The learning curve with drying lumber is huge.
Grandpa ROCKS!! most of them do!
Grandpa has old Yankee ingenuity coming out his ears! Learn from him kids!
Look up a product called Solexx. It is a specially designed corrugated plastic specially designed for greenhouses. I used it when I refurbished a 50 X 24 wood/glass greenhouse (like the Lord and Burnham houses) when I used to have a flower business. It is like corrugated cardboard in structure. Thus there is an air gap that created an R rated covering. You can buy it in large rolls or sheets. Easy to install and has a 10 year warranty. Mine was still fine after 15 years.
It also will protect the wood from the light of the sun.
Creativity breeds contentment, and harmony... You are so blessed to have a Grandparent to learn from and pass on their knowledge. I sure could use that warmth on this old body right about now!
The are heat driven fans out there, and maybe those compact wind driven that You can see on old buildings, they look like a gigant dentist drill head, when the wind blows they turn and has a fan down the tube to draw out foul air from buildings and as some one else said, use the chimney more efficent, and if possible have a layer of plastic sheet on the inside too, it will insulate a lot, but You may lose the condensation at the walls, as the cold outside air do not touch the humid air inside. Choices choices choices.
as a retired finishing carpenter, I love your vids..Red Hair ROCKS!
You mentioned in a previous video that your work is repetitive, but you get a lot of new challenges that makes it interesting and you learn and improve daily.
Water vapor is lighter than air. You need to pull out exhaust carefully and do it from the top
You may want to consider a solar panel and inverter serup to run the fans.
I’ve commented on this once before but if you put a layer of plastic on the inside of the walls you will hold a better heat value
Nothing better than an update video. Keep on the grind girls!
I watched the commercial you made advertising the hardwood for sale. That is a commercial I do not mind watching you did a professional job on that video.
Noticed that too. But that just said pickup only. Would like to know what the price for the lumber would be, if it needs to be shipped . Is there somewhere on their website that shows the Board Foot price based on the Zip Code it is shipped to ?
Continue experimenting with the airflow... see if you can get a measuring device called a hygrometer. Measuring the incoming and exhausting humidity levels will help you dial in the best results... note that the greatest heat is not desirable either since you don't want the wood too dehydrated on outside before internal moisture can be extracted over a longer time. That differential in moisture causes checking and splitting.
You are an awesome young lady..the way you respect the elders...Yes your Grandpa does ingenious work and your parents.. It's just great to see the excitement you show towards them.... Never change. God be with 😎
The charm and pride is great with this one Obi-wan.
Good deal, once I get the lumber where I want it, I crank up the heat for a day or two to set the sap in the wood, especially pine and hemlock
Good work and looking lovely
Something to think about it, we used to have greenhouses and the plastic was doubled, we had a fan blowing from the inside to in between the layers and then at the opposite end and opposite corner there was a vent to the outside. That kept the layers blown up like a ballon and in turn insulated the greenhouse. Might not be easy to do with how your plastic is attached but worth a thought!
Grandpa is a very smart man. Listen and learn.
Grandfather is competent and innovative.
From moisture meters I've used, you probably need to sink the pins deeper into the wood to get an accurate reading. Great video as usual.
Yeah, I would intentionally make some longer boards to cut off the ends and get an accurate reading at the core. I have an iDry vac kiln down in Philly...been too busy to try it out yet, had it for over 2 years (broke my knee cap 2 years ago) and then the Coof was unleashed and I haven't got a sawmill yet. I own a tree removal business and I refused to buy a sawmill until I first had a kiln, bc I have seen that scenario play out a few dozen times where a guy gets a sawmill, cuts his whole yard in lumber, then it all twists, rots and gets infested by insects before any of the wood becomes viable. the value in lumber is in stabilized lumber, not green lumber, which has to be dried at the consumers property, tho there are uses for green lumber, the price difference between the two is significant. I'm not losing sleep over having the kiln and not using it tho...I paid $40k for it bf the plandemic, and ow it's worth $60k. I haven't even taken the ship wrap off it...
Freeze framed at 2:18
She's a Vogelzang from Holland MI. She brings the HEAT. Good thing you don't wear eye glasses, because 100F to 20F will frost your lenses in an instant!!
All the best to you and yours!
Great job on the heating system. Some of that wood is down to the average humidity we have around these parts.
A second layer of plastic on the inside of the walls/studs will greatly increase your insulation and it's easy to do. This is how plastic greenhouses work...
I Missed You Yesterday, I Started To Get DT'S. From Lack Of Content. I Have To Have Someone To Tease!!! Good Video, Glad Your OK. The Mixing Up Things Is Getting Better!!!! One Thing You could Do On A Sunday After Church. IS Have A Walk Through Demonstration For The Kids / Public At Your Log Yard. For Maybe 3 Or 4 hrs. If Mom And Dad Says Its Ok. The Kids / Public Would Love It!!! I Still Remember Your Overwhelmed. It's just A Thought. Prayfully The Sales Will Be There For You Guys Hard Core!!!! I Already See Favor And Protection For Your Work And Family. God Watching Out Over You!!!! 🙂🙂🙂😎😎😎🤗🤗🤗😇😇😇.
Its been 44below Zero here in Vermont. Hope your weather is better in pa,,
Love the efficiency of the whole family working together each doing their job .if someone needs help someone steps up.. cool video on efficient kiln evolution
Nice setup ... not sure of the path/process of moving lumber into and out of the kiln. Perhaps the lumber could be stacked and rolled into and out of the dryer on pallets t to prevent using the small door opening
If you haven't already done so, I would recommend setting up a small Air to Air heat exchanger to facilitate drying and maintain heating efficiency. Also a small 2000 suitcase generator from someplace like harbor freight will power all those fans easily for only 2gallons of gas per 24 hours...should be alot less expensive than that big diesel😁
Only at Lumber Capitol Log Yard ! Nice work .
have you thought about adding a dehumidifier to pull moisture out of the air and lumber. My kiln is much smaller but an electric heater, two box fans and the dehumidifier does just about everything I need except a high enough temperature to set the pitch and kill any bugs that might be making the lumber home..
Perfect NAP area 👍👍👍
Very interesting video lots of good information keep up the good work
You might also want to mount an air humidity monitor...it will give you information on how much moisture is being removed😊
you should put a dehumidifier in there, it'll take the humidity out and make it warmer in there. Then you won't need those exhaust fans blowing all your hot air out
Great vid of explanation..n operations tour..thanks!!!
Awesome job on the kiln I use a dehumidifier in My Solar kiln In the Winter It helps with the heat and also the moisture
The last kiln/moisture update was epic!
Super cool! Such a good idea. Why can’t you get power at the log yard… Isn’t there a pole there?
just wiping the condensate with a cloth may be sufficient to reduce revertion. Then hang the cloth out in the sun to dry.
Another nice vid from the Red Fox.
That was a great video. It's also a place to go when you need to warm up while working. How do keep the fire going when you leave at night? Your grandfather built a very good structure I especially like the way he insulated the door. Ladies thank you for sharing.👍👍♥️
Why not run an electric dehumidifier in the kiln and let the collected water run outside. We have a Woodmizer kiln and it is really an electric heater with a big dehumidifier attached. We use an old refrigerated trailer as the chamber with circulating fans and curtains from the roof to the wood to force air through the stacks; and angle iron tracks to push 2 carts in/out. It can handle 2 carts with 16 ft loads.
If you get one 340 watt or 2 of them 680 you can charge battery and have a 1000 watt inverter on a 80 amp battery is enough run you kilm and even provide some heat to shop area.
To do that take bendable copper tubing and wrap about the barrel have check valve at one end and then have tubing go to a old car radiator. That is where the hot water (glycol) enters and at the bottom tube it back to the check valve. Use the 12 volt DC motor fan to move the air or another fan that you already have that is 120 volt ac. Because of the close loop and max pressure is 15 lbs rated by the radiator cap. The water will circulate.
The inverter can be 24 volts input and yes (2) two 12 volt 80 amp batteries are needed. Anything 12 volt can be used by attaching to the battery post of Neg and post on one of the cells only. Must be a separate circuit from all others.
Inverter attaches to the Neg of one battery and post of other battery to make 24 volt system.
How efficient is this no fuel is need for generator which is only 60% efficient. Solar and battery is 100% efficient also can be heating the shop area.
This is how one can use the sun to heat the shop and yes have heating for kilm and workers too. Cost Project is 250 per solar panel 340 watts 24 volts or 100 watts 12 volts per panel thus needing a total of 500 watts. Run time off 80 amp battery or 160 amp hour in 2 Parallel batteries. 12 volts
Inverter can be one of those ones that plug into the car lighter will run two fans full speed that you are using in your video. 173 watts.
However with 500 to 1000 watt inverter you will have no issues. Run time battery alone is 10 hours for 2 fans. Run time is 18 hours with solar panels of 640 watts and two batteries. This is full sun and battery. have four 340 watt solar panels one can get a nice 1100 watts or 550 when it is a cloudy day. I suspect that the fan motors you are using draw up to 400 watts total possibly less to a max of 350 watts
I have tested a solar panel and car inverter on 40 amp battery pack and it lasted 10 hours. Simple house cooling fans do not draw a lot of power but they are steady consumers of power. It can be done.
So there is an Idea of how to get more efficient and have warming spot for those cool days... Cooling fans for those hot days with no breeze.
the lumber business is fascinating.
Amazing vides of the hard working ladies, I love seen what new ideas u have done
Nice knife sharpener/fire poker :)
A dehumidifier might be more efficient at removing the moisture. You would need to run it to a hose that goes outside the kiln, however as they have a compressor they draw a lot of power.
Thanks Bruce, I am going to think about that…Boss Man.
@@KenBreon I totally agree with dehumidifiers, they really suck the moisture out, looking at your setup, you have plenty of airspace above the piles, it would probable be more efficient if you covered the piles with a tarp or just some more of that clear plastic.
@@KenBreon - You can make a simple moisture removal system simply by getting a 50lb bag of sodium chloride and a 5-gallon bucket. NaCl is hygroscopic and attracts moisture naturally...when the bucket becomes full, dump it out and refill...cheap, easy and takes no additional power.
Another interesting video on the kiln, thanks. Grandpa does some nice thought out work
Suggestion for klin check out a HRV unit heat recovery ventilation or ERV basically same with extra function
HRV exchanges air but uses heat from exhausting air to warm the incoming air the ERV has a condensation function that remove moisture during exchange
Great video.
On the outside of an insulation there is usually a membrane that allows vapor to pass through, but not wind, also not rain. If you replace a bit of the plastic sheet covering the walls with this, it might allow the moisture from the inside to leave without the need for a fan. This membrane is usually of a dark color, so it will still transfer solar heat to the inside. I dont know the english name for this stuff.
Good Evening from here,
Nice video, lovely kiln
Cody place to have lunch when freezing cold outside.
With my 4 kilns I built I put 2 humidifiers in them .. run a hose outside to get rid of the water and than your wood will dry a little quicker. Also if ya get a more expensive moisture meter it will have probes that ya can run in an inch or better for your 8/4 lumber. I do alot of 3 to 4 inch slabs in my kilns and when ya think it's dry let it sit for another day or so depending on thinkness.. but great job to your family!!! It all takes time to make alot of progress.
Thumbs up and already subscribe. Love LCLY! But I'll say it again, include an electrical area heater in the kiln since you are running a gen for the fans. I'm in the swimming pool back yard business and you'd be amazed what electric area heaters put out. And kudos to grandpa! He knows how to build! I love the heat shield on the door. Smart man.
In most dry kilns you try to load it all in one step then try to equalize all the lumber to the same moisture content before releasing any moisture to the atmosphere (outside the kiln) air flow is most important for even dryed lumber.
A dehumidifier would probably do a better job getting rid of the moisture inside the kiln than those small fans, and since you're running the generator anyway it wouldn't take much more power to run it too.
The heat is on thanks to Granpa. Nice work that'll bring good returns on that dried lumber. (Beverly Hills Cop soundtrack)
Solar kilns are great but during winter when you need to supplement the heat you could add a couple of these fans to your burn barrel to keep it electric free . TOMERSUN 4 Blades Stove Fan Heat Powered
Emerald, you could try a Harbor Freight Predator 2000 watt generator. It is small and quiet and will probably run several fans with no trouble. They run under $600. I have 2 similar Honda 2000 generators running small air conditioners in insulated box trucks but they are about $1200.
Thank you, Miss Emerald!! Enjoyed this latest video, as I do ALL of them! Very interesting and informative! I wish your business continued success with this lumber kiln process, and of course in all phases of your lumber business! Be safe & stay well!❤⚘👍
I'm thinking Em and Jade will be taking short breaks in the kiln on cold days!
You bet!
Just a quick caution about moisture meter readings. (And if you already know all this, then I apologize for mansplaining.)
But that's a pin-type meter. Generally quite reliable. BUT... keep in mind that you're measuring ONLY the moisture content of the wood that happens to be between those two pins, and NOT the wood that's below those pins, or beside those two pins, or the wood three inches away from those pins. With a pin meter, unless you drill holes downward or drive the pins in deeper, you're getting the surface moisture content, not the moisture content through the entire thickness of the board. Also, there are usually major variations in wood density that affect the rate at which moisture leaves the board. So for a better approximation of the average MC of the surface, take many surface readings along the length and width. And for better approximation of MC through the thickness, you could consider investing in a pinless meter. Either Wagner, Lignomat or especially Tramex are great choices for reliable pinless meters.
Looks to me like Grandpa made the perfect place to brew a pot of coffee, even has a door.
I hope the unstrapped wood dont deforms, while drying. A good Idea over expensive Wooddryers.
Thanks again 👍
your awesome! love the updates
If you have extra electricity, you could use inside the kiln Midea PD1 12000BTU movable air drying/cooler machine (or similar). What is the use of it? It cools the air and condenses water out of the air. If you make it blow the hot air back to the kiln, it will just take the moisture out of the air but keep the hot air in the kiln. The water can be led out of the kiln with a hose. This way you can save the hot air inside the kiln. Just a thought. I bought one last summer and it condenses a great amount of moisture out of the air. Dehumidification 2.7 l/h.
Em, you are the best. Keep making videos and keep smiling. Kiln is awsome.
Great video I wish I had room for a kiln when I used to mill lumber it would of meant I could have used the lumber sooner
Thanks for the update on the kiln. I was in the field of workplace health and safety for 30 years in Ontario Canada. I might suggest that you consider having some type of fire detector along with a fair size fire extinguisher. It should be placed outside the kiln not inside for ease of access. If you have a good water source you might consider a fire hose system if feasible. Love your vid's.
Just my small input. Moisture will be suspended in warm air, your exhaust fans want to be at top. If you sandwich some peltier cells tween inside and out they will quite happily run computer fans in cold weather and your solar panels in hot sunny weather.
Have you thought of using a heat propeled fan? Sets on wood stove and is generated by heat.
It would really cool to see you build something with the wood. Maybe a table
When I lived in Arizona, we didn't need a drier. Gramps did a nice job.
So l got a question,.. For the size of your kiln, how many board feet can you sticker in there?
Glad to be here! Grandpa thought about everything, looks great and functional.
Just a thought, you need to text the core moisture content to get a true MC in the board.
You may find thermoelectric fans would be better for pushing the moist air out, as what you said about no sun driving the solar driven installation you have there, is also true of course at night...but the moisture is still in there! Cheers
Wow 4.1k replies Keep up the awesome videos and those will grow leaps and bounds. Thank you again for an interesting and informative video.
Is that a honing steel/fire poker???🤣🤣🤣🔥🔥🔥 Awesome!!
My favorite parts of your operation are making charcoal and the kiln. I really appreciate the work on the kiln and the updates, but I have questions and concerns. Are there benefits to knowing and regulating the speed by which the wood is dried? If it dries faster does it tend to split? I wonder if you used a hygrometer to measure the air moisture would it help you regulate the process? When you determine that the wood is at optimum moisture, do you remove it and stack it under shelter?
There some science in this process and I’m excited to learn more about it as you do. I like the solar fans and your willingness to try that energy source to augment your grid and generator input. Keep at it and thanks so much for sharing! Reno
Maybe you should put a dehumidifier in there should definitely help with the moisture thanks for the great videos 👍
Since the makeup air is coming from inside the kiln, I am surprised. that there is condensation. The wood does not contain that much water. My first guess is that the moisture is coming from the ground. Did you put down a vapor barrier?
Nope. There is an episode that covers the build. The crushed limestone "floor" was spread directly on soil.😟
fresh cut lumber can be at least 25% moisture or more as far as i have read. I can assure you that when i cut fresh fallen willow it is 90 percent water and when it dries it is paper.
Most species of wood have a moisture content of between 60 and 200 percent. Fresh cut red oak is around 80 percent moisture content. Water should be literally running down the sides of the kiln.
@@davidkettell5726 Fresh cut oak has a moisture content of 60% to 80% by weight. Most moisture meters do not read above 28% and that is the source of the confusion. In other words, when you put a meter on fresh cut lumber you're going to get a maximum reading of 28% If stickered properly and covered with tin for air drying in the yard you may come back in a year and still get a reading of 28%. What has happened is when fresh cut, the lumber was say 70% and it's dropped to 28%. But you may think no drying has occurred if you don't realize the starting point was 70%. Many people get confused quickly when it comes to drying lumber. A good rule of thumb is don't believe all the information you get from a moisture meter.
@@davidkettell5726 And more!
Have y'all took any lumber out yet? How has it turned out if y'all did?
Oh! And way to go Grandpa!
Well, those fans look like they'll do ya good. Nice to have loyal fans.I wonder which is your biggest fan?
if water is cheaper than diesel, why not add a steam powered fan? Also, I hope you guys made the side wall super light. it will be 10x easier to handle the wood if you can load and unload the kiln with whatever fork machine you got there
Thanks Emerald and Jade for another great video. I'm glad the kiln is working so well. Also just a suggestion, if you reference former videos on a subject many people put a little info tag in the top right corner for people to click on, so they can see a list to take them to the videos on the same subject. Anyway have a great day.🙂🌻🧡
Interesting stuff Emerald! Really good to see moves to improve the kiln. Just in case it is news - remember timber is Hygroscopic - it will absorb but also desorb moisture to reach a balance with its surroundings - therefore the secret is to steadily create a drier environment for the timber; using this property to extract the required moisture to a saleable level, with little degrade. Most folks assume its all about heat - but really its about dryness! - so, really glad to see you have fitted small extractor fans - many use dehumidifiers too. (I give the example of Sauna to my students - that's hot - but damp rather than dry). Suitable emc also varies according to where you are on this planet - and what suits your customer/end user. We associate our warmer months with being dryer too - but realise that is different from some parts of your country. Anyway - superb to see timber being prized as the great resource it is - we can always grow some more trees - we just need to replant a few more!!!
The kiln works great! That is a sizable generator good for lots of uses. Grandpa engineered a nice door with the door insulation. Thanks for the update. Retail spot, more details to follow?
Glad the kiln is works like you want! Progress is slow and steady! Thanks for the video ladies and have a great evening on this Friday junior! TTFN
that is what continuous improvement is all about. type something and make it better as you learn what works and what does not. take a good idea and make it better.
It may sound crazy, but you could use the wood burner to boil water to create steam to turn a wheel that is connected to a generator which powers the vent fan. Just sayin.
Good job you two !