Josh, I appreciate this video and the organized way in which you and Zeev presented the information. Even though I have already registered under the NHR regime, I know others who are considering the move to Portugal. In a "casual" effort (remember I am a "retired" CPA), I have watched some other videos on the subject of the upcoming changes. One such video mentioned that the NHR changes may not take place at the beginning of 2024 but could be delayed until later in 2024 or after 2024 (i.e. January 2025). While I agree that "timing is everything" and procrastination is detrimental to such tax planning, please keep us informed if such a delay in the implementation takes place. Thanks again.
Thank you. Yes, unfortunately, the original messaging was vague and the hammer could truly drop Jan 1st and if people wait to know if that's the case and that indeed becomes the case, it'll likely be too late. So Fresh's approach of "imagine it's Jan 1st" and take action if you want NHR locked in, makes perfect sense to us. - Josh & Kalie
Still coming for 3 months in two week for a scouting trip, but with this change I guess I will be scouting in Spain while staying in the Algarve. This has devastated my retirement plan and now will be looking at Greece, Spain, Panama, Costa Rica and Asia.
@retiring2Portugal; Our feelings are mutual. My husband and I are heading there this month for our second scouting trip. We had set time apart to look at housing as well. Our plans have been greatly altered. We will also begin looking at other prospects.
@@antoniodasilva1230looks like with my Social Security and pension withdrawals I will be in the 37% range in Portugal. Unless I’m mistaken I cannot afford to give a third of my retirement funds to Portugal.
Very clear and useful info. Since retirement is 3 to 4 years out it seems it would behoove me to rush over and try to get NHR status with Fresh’s help. Sadly, I don’t think that will be possible before the deadline-our entire family is already booked for Christmas in Portugal (12/24-31) and that was quite expensive. The only slim possibility is a long weekend a few weeks from now. The thing is, the NHR was never driving my decision to retire anyway (more a life style/quality of life issue), so this doesn’t necessarily scuttle the plan. There might even be a silver lining if I can use the rise in expenses the lack of NHR will entail as a way to convince Sara to give up on pushing for Lisbon. Of course, that could backfire and she might use it to convince me to give up on Portugal all together and look elsewhere-being a German-speaker, she would move to Germany (I would not); I would move to Spain (she would not). We both have enough French and experience there, so maybe France becomes the compromise….
Yea but if your social security earns 25-30k a year you will be taxed at 30-35% instead of 10%. Also your foreign interest/dividends would be exempt. It's a big game changer.
This idea that the end of NHR shouldn't affect expats' plans is almost insulting. "Oh, I thought you were coming here for the food and the culture, so suddenly losing half your income should not matter to you." It's an insensitive perspective that views the matter abstractly and not in terms of people's real life circumstances. Similarly one might say, "Oh, I thought you liked the Rolls Royce because of its luxurious features, so it shouldn't matter to you that it costs $400,000.” 🙄 The two preferences are not mutually exclusive. One can like Portugal and what it has to offer, and still be unwilling to go into poverty to live there. In actuality, once the NHR ends immigration to Portugal is going to fall off a cliff. Many of the people in the Portuguese immigration industry will scarcely be able to maintain their businesses. I hope that those working in this industry will reach out to their government officials, because your livelihood is at risk. The interest people have in this topic is because people are changing their plans and are deciding not to move to Portugal. Suddenly requiring that immigrants pay cumulatively 50%+ of their income (which is ridiculously high, regardless of the context) - without sufficient notice so that people could immigrate before the end of NHR, is an untenable proposition for most people. Believe it or not, you will see the effects of it very soon.
I'm with you. I don't know if the Portuguese leadership considered the potential fallout by looking at all sides of this before they made the announcement. I quickly learned that Portugal is not going to be my home as a U.S. retiree - went right out the window. Im glad I found out and now I know to pay close attention and research all the countries I'll consider retiring to. This was a good warm up lesson. I'll choose a place with a stable policy over time and some really clear evidence - I learned so much and just am glad I never invested substantially in making PT my home. When people say they don't care they'll go ahead anyway - I don't know how you can't care about losing a third or more of your money annually
@@chiaraA.With the meager funds I have I am looking at 37% tax and just cannot afford to take that kind of hit. I was more than willing to pay the 10% and stay after the 10 years, but this is untenable. They are trying to satisfy the Portuguese people by lying to them and saying it’s the immigration, when it’s not. Rather than the government invest in building low cost housing for people and stop investors from buying up properties and turning them into short term rentals, they would rather blame immigration. I imagine it will take a few years but they will come to regret this decision. In my case I will just bounce in and out of Schengen and visit Portugal for a month now and then, like the rest of the tourists and not leave any tax money for the country.
@@Retiring2Portugal it struck me as well that this is a stupid way for the government to satisfy their people and at the same time shooting themselves in both feet. They could have done the hard work of doing as you suggest and build on fixing their housing problem and at the same time keep the solid money coming in from non-Portuguese folks who would contribute to the economy by spending their dollars in country. But no, they took a quick out which I can only predict will bite them big time
While we're at it, I'll give a controversial suggestion. How about the government starts to openly sell off properties they've accumulated so those can be used for long term housing? I think we'd all be shocked at how many properties the town halls across the country have. They might be shocked too. In fact, during our property search, we brought to light that a property was owned by the state and they didn't even know it was theirs. - Josh
My wife and I are retired, and we have been considering moving out of Canada, but we've been reading more and more about "temporary expats" that live outside of the country for periods of time without giving up home residency or taking residency in a different country. We're spending a while in Portugal in early 2024 to try this out, see how it goes. Your channel has been very helpful, thanks for so much great content!
Stay in Canada please. Portugal doesn't need you. Just like your government bans all foreigners from buying in Canadian real estate, you should also be banned from the Portuguese and even European real estate market The law of reciprocity just to be fair.
Sadly, Portugal is no longer an option for us as retires that are 7 years away from retiring. We've been researching and learning the language, getting so excited to make Portugal our new home. Luckly, I think we've found a new destination and are beginning to shift gears. I wouldn't be surprised if Portugal sees an exodus of immigrants when retirees and others NHR's run out. It's unfortunate for the people that want to spend the remainder of their lives in Portugal and came from another country. Retirees spend money in the cafes, markets, stores and such, even in the non tourist months.
7 years is a fairly long runway and a lot can change in that time so just keep enjoying the search process. As far as the exodus concern, a majority of people have stayed after their NHR expired according to a report we read. - Josh & Kalie
I agree. Retirees are not taking jobs away from the Portugese. Housing prices have gone up around the world. In Florida, where I was born and still live, housing prices are insanely high, along with property insurance and property taxes. I think that immigrants buying homes in Portugal and renting them out hasn't helped, especially Air B & B's. Or non Portugese buying homes and not living there contributing to cafes, stores, markets, etc. I appreciate the open dialog, viewpoints, and lessons 😊 Obrigado!
@@jlbutters2 Yeah, antidotally we hear about foreign investors that buy here and don't live here. It started before 2020, but ramped up after because people saw property in Portugal as "cheap" in reality it should be considered to be "under market value" in my opinion, but either way, to an investor it's an opportunity. I appreciate the open dialog too because this situation is very, very nuanced. The fallout from any regulations/laws can have serious implications on parts of society that haven't been considered in the taking of that decision. - Josh
Thank you for this video. My wife and I were able to schedule our visa appointment in DC in February. I understand that we can still be eligible for NHR with our December 23 confirmation of our Feb 24 visa appointment. We are on the Fresh waiting list for tax consultation. Thanks for these great videos
Josh, so grateful to you for putting this together. I am hoping that it may take longer to "do away" with the NHR Regime, more like year-end of 2024. We are in the process of depositing funds in our Portugal bank account in anticipation of our move there during the Summer of 2024. We have an appointment for our Visa in April, 2024. However, if we do not qualify for the NHR, we will have to look at Italy and Spain. Thanks again.
Thanks for the comment. Just curious, have you looked into how the NHR program would benefit you vs using another part of the Portuguese tax code? That could be something worth investigating. - Josh & Kalie
@10:28 he says "But as opposed to zero, in Portugal, you'll pay 28%. It kind of drops the whole point of having these structures". I'm confused by this comment. I have a company that is managed in Cyprus, but I plan to rush to Portugal now to get the NHR. I should still be able to benefit from the 0% dividends right? I'm afraid the editing confuses me a little on the context of what he was referring to. Did he just mean that it makes no sense if your company's residency changes from Cyprus to Portugal, or was he referring to Portugal somehow disregarding the management of the company being abroad?
@@fs5775 It's not the few immigrants that are moving there and buying a property to live in that is driving up real estate prices. It is "investors" buying up multiple properties and turning them into Airbnbs or trying to flip them for profit. Foreigners as well as locals all doing it. Been seeing it since '16 -'17.
Check out the top 10 SIGIs in Portugal, and look into quasi tax exemptions they receive. They were approved by the government in 2019. Probably around the time you started seeing a faster increase in property prices. They focus on rental income which means they build out properties for rent, not for sale. Before developers mainly focused on building for sale. Top investors are Portuguese and Spanish companies. @@fs5775
Also keep in mind that large foreign investment companies are investing in commercial properties vs residential. As far as short-term Airbnb properties, I don't know the specifics on foreign vs national investment, but I do know that when we were talking to Portuguese Real estate professionals in '18, '19, and '20 we were told that Brazilians, Israelis, Chinese, and other Europeans made up the majority of foreign investors buying multiple properties. They weren't companies, but individuals or groups that were buying multiple properties at one time. Perhaps Portugal should consider limiting foreign property ownership to only occupation vs investment speculation.
As an American digital nomad, before watching this video I was unaware that with NHR I would have paid 0 tax to Portugal or the US (via FEIE) on my earned income for 10 years - except for 15% Portuguese social security, whereas without NHR I will pay nearly 40% Portuguese tax on that income - including social security. Now I cannot move to Portugal. This has ruined my decade.
As a digital nomad I saw no advantage to going to live in Portugal. I spent a few months this year there I was in Asia before that. I went to Lisbon but found it too expensive and too boring to stay long term. The taxes are too high and the cost of living keeps going up. I decided to move back to Osaka Japan where I get more bang for my buck and the lifestyle is great. Talking to many digital nomad friends who went there are now leaving. Even the digital nomad visa is too much of a hassle unless you really really want to be in Portugal at any cost. Lots of better places to be in my opinion that Portugal.
Can we have another video on the freelancer and self employed in Portugal without being a NHR ? What are the rates for taxes , and the conditions ? Thank you very much
Additional info for non NHR. The flat tax on capital gains of 28%, can be applied if you don't reach the top bracket of the progressive IRS scale and your gains where from assets you acquired more than one year ago. This law was introduced in 2023. On top of that the rental income flax tax change from 28% to 25% it was approved to my knowledge, don't know when it will be applicable but perhaps in 2024. Additional to the IRS, all the income on the last scale brackets, from 80k upwards, pay an additional income tax called additional solidarity tax of 2,5%. E.g from 80k till 81199€ it's 45%+2,5%, from 81199€ and above it's 48%+2,5%. In reality it's 47,5 and 50,5%, receptively. The IRS scale brackets used in this example are the ones planned for 2024. Final note: Check a proper accountant to validade all this info.
Portugal is one of the worst places to live in relation to taxes. Just forget this country, no matter what you do you get screwed. The idea that 48% tax is fine... add social to that at 15%, VAT 22%. It is impossible to consider Portugal as a long term to live in as even if you have NHR tax status, what do you do in 10 years. Run, Run, Run away from Portugal. The politicians are idiots.
@@tinglestingles More like reality. The country has a massive issue with housing. They don't let you build anywhere and in the lucky chance you find a property where you can build it will take 2-3 years from start to finish. It just isn't worth it on any level. They have a lot of cheap land, and it is cheap for a reason, because the land can be used for one thing, sheep grazing.
@@mikemurphy7519 Politicians are always idiots - So, many will leave early - before the 10 years are up, others may stay on hoping for a change in fortunes. Housing 'supply' is THE big problem! So, the government tries to reduce demand. Almost correct... they need to build and build again, but you're correct the environment just isn't right for house builders both big and small. See Portugal News today... "Swiss investors pull out due to end of NHR A Swiss developer who had planned an investment of more than 100 million euros in Lisbon has decided to cancel the project after António Costa announced the end of the non-habitual resident regime (NHR) in the country."
@@2kool4myskool except... 28% of Portuguese workers have left and due to the cancellation of NHR are extremely unlikely to return. Portugal is unfortunately left with almost the oldest population in the EU. 7% are immigrants coming to Portugal to live, work and invest. Just 7% and 28% gone. I would have thought after the government had educated the workforce they would want them to comeback, or are they happier getting cheaper labour from their former colonies?
It seems that the best solution for someone earning a decent income is find 3 countries they enjoy spending time. One is a country with favorable tax regime, the other 2 countries are simply ones that you enjoy. Could be Spain, Portugal, Greece. Any of the high tax countries. Log your tax residence in the tax haven, then spend several months in each of the other 2 lifestyle countries. UAE will now give you tax residency with just 90 days a year in the country (with some specific criteria). So long as you don't inadvertently become tax resident in a high tax country, you should be fine. Granted this does raise the cost over just one location, but if your income is high enough, it can be well worth it. Not to mention the variety of multiple locations, and the chance to select the weather that you like best.
End result, fewer people with large incomes, and more with smaller incomes wanting to reside in Portugal. Is that better? The problem with unaffordable housing in Portugal is tourism, not people wanting residence. Apparently no one there bothered to look at the numbers, or more probably, just went with the blame it on immigrants rant that is so popular in both the EU and US. Make Portugal Great Again?
Very informative! Thank you Josh and Fresh! Just one question for clarification: does one need to permanently move to Portugal before 1/1/2024 in order to apply for the accelerated tax residency? Or just a week of visit to submit the application?
My plans are to move there within five years, now that’s in jeopardy, but I’m hoping🤞Portugal will see that this approach will dramatically slow down the migration of people to the country and thus, adjust their tax laws. Do you think that’s possible?
There is already proposed language for the updated NHR which will incentive targeted skills. They are basically sunsetting the breaks for retirement/passive income.
I think if your plan is 5 years, the landscape will change and it could be clearer what it'll be like in 5 years in 3-4 years so that way you'll be able to make a better decision so in the meantime, keep your options open and enjoy researching. That's a fun and exciting process. - Josh & Kalie
Good updated information. Missing the estimated time period it takes from applying the "expression of interest visa" to its approval. Also there is limitation of exit you can have once you are in Portugal with Fresh Portugal's help submitting the "expression of interest visa." If Fresh Portugal can touch upon these issues in the video would be very helpful.
Any recommendations of someone that can give tax advise here in Porto? Just needed a consultation to understand how to take more advantage of my NHR status. Thank you!
Yes, unfortunately, applications are closed. Let's see how this NHR and change of government thing plays out. We'll know more Nov 29th or 30th. - Josh & Kalie
Thank you for clear content on a timely topic. One question please: the chart shows 2 columns: Tax Rate & Tax Rate (total) what is the difference between the two? Thanks again.
You're welcome. Thanks for watching. I believe that's the effective tax rate. So it's to say that when you jump to the next tax bracket, not the total of your income will be taxed at the new figure but what goes above will be taxed at the new figure. So it appears as if it's an effective tax rate on rate and what the in-between bit is taxed at the next level also with deductions factored in. That's my guess. I'm not a tax expert though. - Josh
One important aspect no one is talking about the current NHR regime is it's only for the first 10 years then the tax benefits end anyway. So eventually it ends for everyone.
The other important point is to apply and get NHR you have to have an address and the D7 visa in Portugal. You can't just have a NIF as anyone can apply for a NIF and never live in Portugal.
We have structured our LLC-S corp through an outside of Portugal management company using Fresh as our “management board”. We await our first tax year here in PT.
I own irish domiciled ETFs that have no witholding on dividends paid out. Are these dividends, tax free under NHR, or are they taxed as they have not been taxed at source?
Is the deadline of the end of this year 100%. I saw another video saying that the date to end NHR has not yet been announced and it could be the end of 2024. Also, they are considering some other form of tax benefits for certain careers. Lots of different different information out there right now.
It might be a political move - who knows how long it will take to make it into law if at all. It may pissed off some non-residence Portuguese who have planned to come back to Portugal and expects to get the NHR status.
The end of 2023 deadline was specified in the budget that was submitted in recent days. Many RUclips videos are not accounting for that. Every expert that I've heard address this issue who knows about the budget has said that the deadline will almost definitely remain unchanged, because the party backing it has a majority in the legislature.
It sounds like we are 6mths too late in our plan to move. We will really need to do some serious number crunching to see if Portugal is still possible. I really hope so!
The woman in the video states very clearly and with confidence that you need tax residency by Dec 31, 2023 and NHR application submitted by March 31, 2024.
That might just be your particular case as the flat tax is currently listed at 28%. For tax filing year 2023, it was listed at 28%. It's possible there was a clerical error so be sure to check that if you feel like you were taxed too much. We've just recently spoken to several people that have noticed errors on their taxes and they're getting that resolved now. - Josh
I'm looking to be a consultant and I will likely be a digital nomad in Portugal. To avoid income tax, is it better to get a US LLC or just earn it as a salary. My clients are mostly from the US. I am a Canadian citizen that will use Portugal as tax residence.
Based on the advice I've been given re a UK Ltd company, so similar treatment, I've been advised previously that if you work FROM and IN Portugal, regardless of where your clients are based, if the billed work is done IN Portugal, then this is technically taxable in Portugal at the Portuguese tax rates, since this is not strictly income from a foreign source. I'm sure Fresh (who do my tax returns and are great btw) would be able to advise. It's a tricky area, but to be tax advantageous as a digital nomad, you can't really live here and need to be nomading around the world to benefit from that Visa status.
The earliest appointment they had was November 6th! Unfortunately, Fresh Portugal requires you to pay first, fill out information, and then give you available dates. I just sent an email to them and hoping to get an earlier time or refund.
Do you mind sharing who you emailed to push your appointment earlier? I tried to email the only email I see on their website and it comes back saying the email doesn't exist... 🤔
I don't believe you can combine NHR flat 20% with the simplified regime's 75% tax basis. It's either one or the other, depending on which will work out best for you. Many don't realize there's the obligatory social security that works out around at an extra 15%, although you do get an exemption in the first year. Portugal is extremely bureaucratic with many unclear laws that each advisor will tell you a different opinion about. You'll spend lots of time speaking with accountants, queuing at government offices, and managing taxes, without ever being certain of what the outcome would be if you're audited because no one fully agrees on what the laws mean or how they're enforced in reality. You will probably have a high tax burden (combined with subpar public services in return), unless you rely on some NHR exemptions that are frankly in an ambiguous legal grey area and subject to change any given year. There is instability in constant changes to schemes like the Golden Visa and NHR, coupled with a growing backlash against expats and locals being priced out. With the NHR being discontinued, it's hard to tell how existing and new residents living on foreign income will be treated. Europe will see growing resistance against migration in general during the coming years, as the situation has become extreme. There is also a huge corruption scandal going on right now regarding mineral exploitation, involving the PM and his cronies. It is a beautiful country with a profound culture, but much better for an extended holiday than to live long term.
Very good video. At 12:22, it seems that we can apply for residency even if not ready to move to Portugal now. Maybe I've misunderstood the process but don't we need a proof of lease in Portugal to apply for residency as retiree? Is the next step should be the application for NHR?
Thank you! We highly recommend you contact Fresh. Link provided in the description section so they can analyze your situation and explain the process to move forward. - Josh & Kalie
This video has confused me more. My immigration lawyer told me that this announcement is a Political statement and that to take place will go trough the same process as the Golden Visa cancellation, which make take some time and the deadline is NOT December 2023. However in other channels states that the NHR is ending on 2023. Is so confusing and just let me tell that I just don't how you can become resident for the remaining of this year, if just getting the Visa appointment has ben impossible.
Sorry for the confusion. The general assumption is that because the current party has majority power and they've stated that they want the program to end in 2024 that people should be prepared for it to end at the end of 2023. As of right now, the information that we have is that it's not final. - Josh & Kalie
The important timing aspect is that this announcement was one small clause from hundreds of 2024 budget announcement/decisions soon to be ratified into law by the parliament, which as@@ExpatsEverywherehave said, has to be voted through, but the party has a significant majority in parliament, so would only fail thanks to a rebellion, and could be voted through based on the overall budget approval. It's because it's included in this round of approvals that the general consensus now is that it will go live on Jan 1 2024, making it necessary for you to tick all the boxes, and for 2023 to be THE final FIRST year of any NHR application. My understanding is that NHR 2023 can still be done and approved by March 31st 2024, but you will need to be prove that you hit all the criteria on Dec 31st 2023, i.e. address in Portugal, with LT contract supporting materials, and this being updated in the finanças portal to show you were living in Portugal in 2023 for the first time/first time in 5 years for returning citizens.
Is the solidarity tax new and does it apply to those under NHR? Also, for scenario 2 (digital nomad freelancer under NHR), would I need to be registering as a freelancer in the countries I'm working in outside of Portugal to be exempt from tax for that income?
I don't believe they are because it is covered in the US PT taxation treaty, but you can read the treaty yourself. It's at the IRS website and isn't that long. And by government pension, you mean military, federal or state worker, right?
I am moving to retiree to Portugal next year 2024. I know, taxes are going to be increased but don’t have choices. How can I get in touch with any of those people who were in your video today that they can help me. Thank you to clarify my mind. ❤❤😊Your video was excellent with a lot of information.
What about retirees on government (public) pensions. I've read multiple sources and spoken to one Portuguese tax specialist in Coimbra stating that these pensions are only taxed in the origin country.
Look into France. It doesn’t cost much more, but it has mostly first world infrastructure. The tax treaty with the US is extremely favorable for US retirees. Pensions, capital gains, and rental incomes from the US are not taxed by France.
I already had my scouting trip planned & paid for later this month, but will be jumping across the border to Spain to check out what they have to offer for this retiree. There is no way I could get the NHR status before it ends, so will be looking at other options.
@trave7644that’s true. All of Europe is in trouble over the long term. Mass migration out of Africa will crush their societies, unless radical changes in policy are enacted.
I'm a bit baffled about the taxation. I would be applying for a D7, as l would be as a retiree and getting a state pension plus a government pension from where l worked. So, are you saying I'll be doubly taxed by the UK and then again in Portugal? I understood l would have to transfer my pension to Portugal, so would l still get taxed and if so, at what rate?
I have no problem paying fair share of taxes and the NHR is not what initially drew my interest in Portugal. I actually think the NHR is too generous to foreigners. Some tax incentive to draw foreign capital to Portugal when it needed it in 2009 was not a bad idea, but it was too extreme in my opinion. I’m actually happier to pay taxes to Portugal for the kinds of social services it pays for and I would benefit from rather than to the US that spends it on the opposite of what I would like it to pay for (like military, not healthcare and education). I resent that even if I live outside the US I still have to file and pay some taxes to US (yes, there is a tax treaty between US and Portugal through which I could get foreign tax credit toward US taxes to avoid double taxation, but it’s still a hassle that US demands this).
@@GeraldFigal You will not pay taxes to the US. Your Portugal tax bill will probably be something like 4x more than your US tax bill so completely offset your US taxes because of the double taxation treaty.
@@chriskasprzyk6235 Yes, I think what got lost in this discussion (and in interviews) is the tax treaty and how it works in practice. If under the NHR the offset that the foreign tax credit provides basically only means that you end up paying what you would have to Uncle Sam but that Uncle Sam has to share with Portugal, then yeah, without NHR it is likely that Uncle Sam gets cut out completely while you pay more to Portugal. That scenario, however, raises the specter of Uncle Sam wanting to revise the treaty to get his pound of flesh. Speaking of pounds, I read that the UK (which has many times more of its citizens living in Portugal than the US does) might be "revisiting" its tax treaty with PT.
@@GeraldFigal With or without NHR makes no difference what you pay to the US except for niche cases or extremely high incomes. US taxes are so far and away lower than Portuguese taxes, even under NHR that you will get a complete offset. I've actually done the math and found under NHR my effective rate is basically 20% since it is flat with no deductions and just slight offset due to capital gains. Without NHR my effective rate is a little under 39%. Meanwhile in the US my effective rate is a little over 12%. That disparity is one of the primary differences why the US has such a better and more dynamic economy than PT, or even the EU.
Do you have contacts (maybe this guy?) who can help apply for the NHR in 2024? I qualify under the exemptions to still apply for the old NHR scheme until the end of 2024, but my lawyer dropped the ball and am seeking someone who can clarify one question I have as well as help me get the NHR ASAP. Thank you so much Expats Everywhere!
A lot to digest… my son has Portuguese citizenship however I don’t and and am retired. I will be buying the property for him and be living off of my pension and any savings I have. Not sure how the NHR would affect my chance to retire to Portugal. Impossible to rush there to apply for NHR status. Will check here with the Portuguese Embassy and Consulate here in Canada to see what they advise… otherwise I will look to go to Italy instead…
Go to the right places in Italy and the tax situation is even better than it would be in Portugal even with NHR with the special tax regime of a flat 7% for all worldwide income.
@@janiswilliams3732 look up italy special tax regime. basically you have to have a non-italian pension, for example SS, and you need to live in a municipality of less than 20,000 in certain regions. mostly southern and central italy regions like sicily, calabria, etc.
4:483:56 So when you pay this flat rate of 20% what is claimable as rebates and benefit's? When benefits does one have for contribution to the state social security of 11+23.75%? What's the pension payout at the moment, what about medical stuff and schooling is this free? Please if someone can offer me some assistance. Don't have enough informa 5:55 tion on Portugal taxes. If it a haven or walking into a nightmare. Add the social and taxes it half of salary will I have enough to survive with income left.
Great information in one spot. I have seen 3 other RUclips videos and left despondent. This video has provided me with a bit of hope that there are options available. We are arriving in lisbon on Thursday. We have our NIF, a bank account, and a deposit on a house in central portugal, waiting on a close date. Our plans were to spend, 5-6 months per year in portugal and the balance at our home in Thailand. My question is this, as we do not intend on getting citizenship, and we will not be living full time in portugal, does the NHR visa even make sense, and would we be paying taxes at an elevated rate or be considered short term visitors or tourists?
@@chinesecrested9528 That plan won't work. The D7 is valid for 4 months, then converted into a 2-year residency permit. You only have 2 entries into Portugal on a D7 until you get your residency permit card, which might not arrive for a couple of months. So, for your first 5 or 6 months, you effectively only have 1 entry into Portugal. After you get your residency permit card, you must spend 16 of those 24 months in Portugal, with no absence greater than 6 months. So, you'd basically need to only spend 4 months each year in Thailand at the most. You will also be tax residents of Portugal, subject to Portuguese tax. So, the NHR would have helped you, but there could be other taxation options to help manage your tax costs.
@@SynergyOfTwo thanks, we gave gone over every possible senerio, and your comment makes the most sense towards what we want to accomplish. 90 days on 90 days off etc make more sense now
A thought: Tax liability in Portugal (and US) is on income, regardless of source, not net wealth. One could theoretically live off of cash savings (sitting presently in high-yield online savings accounts, laddered CDs, MMAs) and have to pay income taxes only on earned interest. Doing the math for that scenario versus having all your cash in retirement accounts that would likely have higher returns over time but then incur higher taxes when disbursed as needed might be worth investigating. (My 403b is pre-tax-advantaged so I pay upon disbursements-mandatory minimum disbursements won’t happen until 73 years old I think) Besides my 403b, Sara has an equally well-funded IRA account while we’ve also been stockpiling cash savings (I’ve put us under an austerity program to save more cash now to hedge against stock market volatility). That combined with the golden parachute I’ll get from employer by retiring before 68 would theoretically get us through several years on cash alone without claiming social security or drawing on retirement accounts. Hmm… maybe Portugal is still very much in play. Need to see a financial planner soon.
Very good idea and something I am also investigating. Only issue with it that I see is being able to prove fulfillment of income requirements for D7 visa. I'm understanding they will accept proof of assets, but the problem is that unlike with the income level, there is no set amount of assets that are required so it is left to the individual consular offices that you deal with. Might be easiest to take out a fixed term SPIA with a payout that meets income requirement and the rest that you actually need comes from the savings withdrawals.
@@chriskasprzyk6235 Exactly the kind of thing I’ve been thinking about too. The D7 income threshold is pretty low, so you could take minimal disbursements which when combined with any interest income on cash savings would easily meet threshold. In fact, I would work out in general a balance between drawing on taxable income and using cash in a way that would keep tax rate reasonable and maintain reasonable cash cushion.
Hi it looks like Fresh Portugal have now stopped taking anymore more people on to help them. Do you know of any other companies you could recommend please.
Hi Gary, write Kalie at info@expatseverywhere.com as she might know. Fresh had to stop Nov 1st to try to serve all of the applicants they had in. The window is very narrow now. - Josh & Kalie
As of late Portugal has become too expensive to live in, plus new laws regarding taxes will get deep into retirees and peoples pockets, crazy taxes, rents are threw the roof, real estate getting sky high, how the heck are the locals dealing with this high cost of living now, because high cost locals seem getting fed up with foreigners living there now, truly crazy!! i remember the old Portugal!!
We are visiting Portugal in November to scout but now I’m confused. He said to apply even if you don’t have Portuguese visa but you need an address and nif right? What do I need to exactly because I think I got a bit of conflicting info from the video. Thank you so much in advance!
Hi, it's probably best to speak with Fresh directly. Their initial plan isn't to do the immigration work but to declare your interest in Portugal. You will need a NIF, but the address thing will come in time but not immediately from what we know about their strategy. - Josh & Kalie
My adult son & I are dual US & EU citizens. My family is considering a move to Portugal in a couple of years. My moms 84 US citizen & my husband US citizen. Do all of us need to file for the tax status, or R my son & I exempt because of EU citizen status?
Very difficult to understand some of this information surely if if there is a double taxation agreement between Portugal and the country that you reside in you will not be paying more than the net effective tax rate so for example as a retiree in Portugal if I pay an effective 40% tax on my monthly pension income received in South Africa are you saying I’m going to pay another 48% on that gross income? Does not make sense, is my tax liability in Portugal not the net of the two which would be 8%?
im not a tax expert, but my understanding is that generally you pay tax first to the country where you have residence for that year ( more than half the year ), then you have a deduction for that in the other country,
If you move to PT and establish tax residency then you should only owe taxes to PT, especially if SA and PT have a DTA. Only the US (among 1st world countries) taxes on citizenship. Also, be very careful the difference between marginal tax rate and effective tax rate.
It's quite confusing. The requirements for fresh "accelerated tax residency" program assume the followings: Minimum qualification criteria (without these we cannot get started): a NIF number. A bank account in the EU - preferably in Portugal. A long term rental contract in Portugal. Access password to the Finances Portal (if you applied for a NIF with a tax representative, please ask them to urgently obtain this code (normally takes 1 week). I don't know you, but it seems a long shot if you NOT already have these requirements met? I hope I am wrong about this.
@@josephkeith6954: I had the same reaction. The Accelerated Tax Residency (as on their website) also had those four minimum qualification criteria - “without these we cannot get started”. We had been planning to relocate toward the end of 2024. If one gets tax residency, does that mean that any current income (like my current salary) in the USA will be subject to Portugal’s taxation (as well as the US)? I am also confused about steps and feasibility of success.
In addition, the requirement to have a long term rental contract in Portugal seems to contradict the idea of gaining NHR now and deferring it until the time to relocate (in some years) occurs. Or is the long-term rental contract just the (sunk) cost to pay to get NHR now.
You have to file taxes every year in every country you are a resident even if you are living abroad in any country. Even if it's to file zero income in the USA or Canada.
Is there even time to get NHR anymore? If you're only just starting looking at a rental? Don't you have to have "permanent residency" which takes 4 months to get NHR? Or can permanent residency be established whenever you have a place to live?
If you started today, there’s no way to get it before 2024. We have our VFS global meeting for the temp residency you must get first in Nov. You must have a place to live before this meeting. It’s 60 for the temp visa. Then about 30 to schedule SEF meeting for more permanent residency. Then that takes 2-4 months to get the 2 year resident Visa. Then you apply for tax residency, then NHR. Another 60 days. No way to get it done before 2024. We are looking at April 2024 to have it completed. But now…we don’t even know if we are going to do it anymore. Sucks.
@@mt4100 You don't need resident card to become a tax resident actually. You can change your tax status to Portugal, then apply for NHR. I talked with an accountant and lawyer today and thats what I've been told. You basically join a company, rent a unit before end of year, swap your tax residency, apply for NHR. Done.
@@mt4100 You may want to find a new lawyer. There are two ways to get tax residency. 1) spend 183 days of the year in Portugal. 2) have a place to live in Portugal. Rental must be at least 1 year lease. OR have a house must be owned by you.
@@pures1nyou can’t stay in Portugal for more than 90 days without a visa…even with a rental agreement or a home purchase. So are you saying you don’t need a visa to gain tax residency?
I’m glad I watched your video but I’m still confused. I thought I was moving to Pt in fall next year. I’m totally US pension income…retired educator. I didn’t think I had to worry because of US & Pt treaty until I saw this! I just applied for my passport. Do I have to go to Pt to get NHR through Fresh in next 2 months or can it be done from US? I did request expedited passport but it could be Jan. when it arrives. Thanks for the video!😊
I've read several sources and spoken to my tax specialist - Government pensions (public pensions), which includes public school teachers' pensions, are only taxed in the origin country (Great news). However, total income, including the pension and all other forms of income is used to determine the rate of taxation on your other income (rental income, dividends/interest, 401k/403b, IRA, Social Security, etc.). However, in my situation I'm the only income earner so because I'm married this rate will be divided by 2, and then there are the deductions for having to young boys. I'm meeting online with my Portuguese tax expert to discus our unusual circumstance because I'm 60, retired, have public pensions, a wife and two children. Fingers crossed. We have our NIFs and preregistered our boys in a private school and planning to move early summer 2024.
Thanks for the video. Just a Q, it may not take effect in Jan 2024 right? The Portuguese government has not announced a date yet. Am I right to say this?
It actually has to pass as legislation. However, there is already language for a new NHR that sounds much like Canada or New Zealand laws - tax incentives for young, high tech, medical, engineering, and educators at all levels. I can't fault Portugal for switching to luring "the best and the brightest" to fuel their economy and educate it's children and young people work in a thriving modern economy. Old people generally take way more than they give simply because of frequent use of the healthcare system.
@@jedi_mapperp4073 Thanks for the clarification. Ordinarily, how long does it take to pass a legislation? Deadline given, as I understand it, for tax residents and holders of D Visas on 31st Dec '23 is 31st March 2024 to get their NHR. Does this still apply since it has to pass legislation?
@@jedi_mapperp4073 Also, I heard the new tax regime will tax foreign passive income (pensions, dividends, rental, etc) a flat rate, 10%, 20%, can't recall the exact %, is this true?
This is where we are exactly. Can you run the tax side and the visa side simultaneously? It might work then. Otherwise, if you need the visa first…it won’t in time based on this video.
I am reading that the new rules are: a flat 20% tax rate for a decade and a 50% tax exemption on professional income, up to a cap of €250,000, for five years. If only I could understand what this truly mean for my case
IMO if you want tax benefits you should open a business and employ people, business owners take all the risk so should get tax breaks, mr German pensioner or American software developer should pay taxes like everyone else
I am portuguese living in Norway, can i apply to NHR even if i am not moving right away? Would this mean i would have to start paying taxes in Portugal, or can i still pay taxes in Norway and when i move to Portugal then i start paying taxes in Portugal under the NHR status? thanks
As long as you set your tax residency to Portugal, have a NIF, and an address nothing is stopping you from applying NHR as long as you have not lived there in the past 5 years.
I think all you need is an expert assigned by a brokerage company that will trade for you and handle your capital professionally and give you weekly returns of investment Without any extra fees attached
I don’t believe this change will give some Portuguese what they’re looking for (ex., equality of outcome). Going forward, a wealthy person will simply purchase a property there, then do the Schengen shuffle to avoid Portuguese taxation while using the 2nd home as a vacation destination. I thought that’s how the current NHR is used in practice for most anyway. Under the nee rule, perhaps it will only result in less time spent in Portugal yet property purchases remain very similar. I think some Portuguese may believe some lies by their gov, although i’m not an expert. I do know that smart $ remains smart, and politicians will not stop pandering to the wealthy, despite what they may convince their citizens of…
I’m not wealthy but I know I can bounce in and out of Schengen using short term rentals during the low seasons and still live for less than $36,000 a year and not pay income taxes to any country except my home country. I was going to become a citizen of PT but screw it, I will just be a poor tourist. It is their loss in the long run.
The funny thing about all of this its that before the government talked about tax changes, everything was great and prety. Now its looking everyone act like rats abonding ship and searching for the next one where they can live on their advantage.
We're not sure that's exactly the case. A lot of people in the RUclips communities aren't these high net individuals that people think all foreigners are. There are pensioners that planned on X amount to live on because that was the rate after taxes that they had and that's not longer the case. There's also been a decent amount of interest lost due to rising cost of living, which would effect people on fixed incomes more vs people that have active incomes. It is what it is. This is how people migrate around. - Josh & Kalie
Hi, that's a very loaded question. What do you want to do with the property? What are your hopes for the property? What's your risk tolerance? It's not a simple yes or no. If you want a simple yes or no, let's say, "Yes!". - Josh & Kalie
Foreigners were already moving and investing in this country way way before the nhr existence so I’ll bet it will still remains the same. Also you need to know that the nhr tax break cost to this nation something around 1.3 billion euros and about 60 % of the nhr beneficiaries didn’t leave the country. There are no such thing as free lunches. Also please talk to official accountant besides tax lawyers, believe me
The tax break costs aren't a real cost because it's very likely that is money the government wouldn't receive since that person wouldn't come without the tax break. NHR has been in place since 2012, which is likely around the time the country started to recover for the financial crisis that started in 2008-2009. - Josh & Kalie
@ExpatsEverywhere Well, I disagree as tax break is always a cost to a nation's finances because trickle-down economics never works, my friend. The NHR was a temporary measure, and it doesn't make any sense anymore besides creating an injustice to its national population. Again, it's all about balance and social justice. The impact of nhr on the economy was not that significant and the same about the golden visas. I'm 45 years old, and I'm from the Algarve, and let me tell you, Quinta do Lago and Vale do Lobo was made and grew way before the nhr existence. It was the exporting companies, technology and tourism that were the main players for the national economic recovery. The nhr did have some impact on the recovery, but not that much. Cheers.😀
@@zepedro6666 I think it's healthy to agree. What I can say is that without numbers to analyze, I can't say one way or another what the real impact it is. What i can say is that to say NHR holders "cost" the government X amount is very disingenuous. These are tax-breaks on foreign sourced income after all, which is a bit different from taxes generally captured or not in the case of trick-down economics. Some might argue that NHR tax revenues is free money. ;-) - Josh
I have been watching other NHR RUclipsrs. This channel provides the most useful, valuable, and made it easy to understand. Thank you.
Wow, thanks! We appreciate that. That's our aim. - Josh & Kalie
NHR is done !
Josh, I appreciate this video and the organized way in which you and Zeev presented the information. Even though I have already registered under the NHR regime, I know others who are considering the move to Portugal. In a "casual" effort (remember I am a "retired" CPA), I have watched some other videos on the subject of the upcoming changes. One such video mentioned that the NHR changes may not take place at the beginning of 2024 but could be delayed until later in 2024 or after 2024 (i.e. January 2025). While I agree that "timing is everything" and procrastination is detrimental to such tax planning, please keep us informed if such a delay in the implementation takes place. Thanks again.
Thank you. Yes, unfortunately, the original messaging was vague and the hammer could truly drop Jan 1st and if people wait to know if that's the case and that indeed becomes the case, it'll likely be too late. So Fresh's approach of "imagine it's Jan 1st" and take action if you want NHR locked in, makes perfect sense to us. - Josh & Kalie
Still coming for 3 months in two week for a scouting trip, but with this change I guess I will be scouting in Spain while staying in the Algarve. This has devastated my retirement plan and now will be looking at Greece, Spain, Panama, Costa Rica and Asia.
Spain’s tax regime is awful for US retirees. If you have a government pension it’s not quite so bad.
@retiring2Portugal; Our feelings are mutual. My husband and I are heading there this month for our second scouting trip. We had set time apart to look at housing as well. Our plans have been greatly altered. We will also begin looking at other prospects.
A small price to pay for having peaceful life good luck with all those other places 😅
@@antoniodasilva1230looks like with my Social Security and pension withdrawals I will be in the 37% range in Portugal. Unless I’m mistaken I cannot afford to give a third of my retirement funds to Portugal.
small price on a small income, otherwise not so much at 48%@@antoniodasilva1230
Very clear and useful info. Since retirement is 3 to 4 years out it seems it would behoove me to rush over and try to get NHR status with Fresh’s help. Sadly, I don’t think that will be possible before the deadline-our entire family is already booked for Christmas in Portugal (12/24-31) and that was quite expensive. The only slim possibility is a long weekend a few weeks from now. The thing is, the NHR was never driving my decision to retire anyway (more a life style/quality of life issue), so this doesn’t necessarily scuttle the plan. There might even be a silver lining if I can use the rise in expenses the lack of NHR will entail as a way to convince Sara to give up on pushing for Lisbon. Of course, that could backfire and she might use it to convince me to give up on Portugal all together and look elsewhere-being a German-speaker, she would move to Germany (I would not); I would move to Spain (she would not). We both have enough French and experience there, so maybe France becomes the compromise….
Yea but if your social security earns 25-30k a year you will be taxed at 30-35% instead of 10%. Also your foreign interest/dividends would be exempt. It's a big game changer.
This idea that the end of NHR shouldn't affect expats' plans is almost insulting. "Oh, I thought you were coming here for the food and the culture, so suddenly losing half your income should not matter to you." It's an insensitive perspective that views the matter abstractly and not in terms of people's real life circumstances.
Similarly one might say, "Oh, I thought you liked the Rolls Royce because of its luxurious features, so it shouldn't matter to you that it costs $400,000.” 🙄 The two preferences are not mutually exclusive. One can like Portugal and what it has to offer, and still be unwilling to go into poverty to live there.
In actuality, once the NHR ends immigration to Portugal is going to fall off a cliff. Many of the people in the Portuguese immigration industry will scarcely be able to maintain their businesses. I hope that those working in this industry will reach out to their government officials, because your livelihood is at risk. The interest people have in this topic is because people are changing their plans and are deciding not to move to Portugal.
Suddenly requiring that immigrants pay cumulatively 50%+ of their income (which is ridiculously high, regardless of the context) - without sufficient notice so that people could immigrate before the end of NHR, is an untenable proposition for most people. Believe it or not, you will see the effects of it very soon.
I'm with you. I don't know if the Portuguese leadership considered the potential fallout by looking at all sides of this before they made the announcement. I quickly learned that Portugal is not going to be my home as a U.S. retiree - went right out the window. Im glad I found out and now I know to pay close attention and research all the countries I'll consider retiring to. This was a good warm up lesson. I'll choose a place with a stable policy over time and some really clear evidence - I learned so much and just am glad I never invested substantially in making PT my home. When people say they don't care they'll go ahead anyway - I don't know how you can't care about losing a third or more of your money annually
@@chiaraA.With the meager funds I have I am looking at 37% tax and just cannot afford to take that kind of hit. I was more than willing to pay the 10% and stay after the 10 years, but this is untenable. They are trying to satisfy the Portuguese people by lying to them and saying it’s the immigration, when it’s not. Rather than the government invest in building low cost housing for people and stop investors from buying up properties and turning them into short term rentals, they would rather blame immigration. I imagine it will take a few years but they will come to regret this decision. In my case I will just bounce in and out of Schengen and visit Portugal for a month now and then, like the rest of the tourists and not leave any tax money for the country.
@@Retiring2Portugal it struck me as well that this is a stupid way for the government to satisfy their people and at the same time shooting themselves in both feet. They could have done the hard work of doing as you suggest and build on fixing their housing problem and at the same time keep the solid money coming in from non-Portuguese folks who would contribute to the economy by spending their dollars in country. But no, they took a quick out which I can only predict will bite them big time
While we're at it, I'll give a controversial suggestion. How about the government starts to openly sell off properties they've accumulated so those can be used for long term housing? I think we'd all be shocked at how many properties the town halls across the country have. They might be shocked too. In fact, during our property search, we brought to light that a property was owned by the state and they didn't even know it was theirs. - Josh
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
My wife and I are retired, and we have been considering moving out of Canada, but we've been reading more and more about "temporary expats" that live outside of the country for periods of time without giving up home residency or taking residency in a different country. We're spending a while in Portugal in early 2024 to try this out, see how it goes. Your channel has been very helpful, thanks for so much great content!
Stay in Canada please. Portugal doesn't need you. Just like your government bans all foreigners from buying in Canadian real estate, you should also be banned from the Portuguese and even European real estate market The law of reciprocity just to be fair.
Sadly, Portugal is no longer an option for us as retires that are 7 years away from retiring. We've been researching and learning the language, getting so excited to make Portugal our new home. Luckly, I think we've found a new destination and are beginning to shift gears. I wouldn't be surprised if Portugal sees an exodus of immigrants when retirees and others NHR's run out. It's unfortunate for the people that want to spend the remainder of their lives in Portugal and came from another country. Retirees spend money in the cafes, markets, stores and such, even in the non tourist months.
Well, the money spent in the cafés doesn't really compensate the burden Retiree Imigrants are in our social security sistem and real estate market...
7 years is a fairly long runway and a lot can change in that time so just keep enjoying the search process. As far as the exodus concern, a majority of people have stayed after their NHR expired according to a report we read. - Josh & Kalie
I agree. Retirees are not taking jobs away from the Portugese. Housing prices have gone up around the world. In Florida, where I was born and still live, housing prices are insanely high, along with property insurance and property taxes. I think that immigrants buying homes in Portugal and renting them out hasn't helped, especially Air B & B's. Or non Portugese buying homes and not living there contributing to cafes, stores, markets, etc. I appreciate the open dialog, viewpoints, and lessons 😊 Obrigado!
@@jlbutters2 Yeah, antidotally we hear about foreign investors that buy here and don't live here. It started before 2020, but ramped up after because people saw property in Portugal as "cheap" in reality it should be considered to be "under market value" in my opinion, but either way, to an investor it's an opportunity.
I appreciate the open dialog too because this situation is very, very nuanced. The fallout from any regulations/laws can have serious implications on parts of society that haven't been considered in the taking of that decision. - Josh
Good we really don't need you in Portugal anyway. We have enough revenues from tourists and local people already.
Great job! Thank you for putting this together. It is difficult to understand how this change will effect them.
Thank you, Alan! We appreciate you watching. - Josh & Kalie
i would love a US LLC video. I tried looking into this subject, but it was very hard to understand. Thanks for the great info!
Maybe it's something we could do in conjunction with Fresh/Zeev. :-)
You're welcome. Thank you for watching. - Josh & Kalie
Thanks for being clear and honest while showing how bad of a deal Portugal can be if you don't meet very specific criteria.
You're welcome. - Josh & Kalie
Thank you for this video. My wife and I were able to schedule our visa appointment in DC in February. I understand that we can still be eligible for NHR with our December 23 confirmation of our Feb 24 visa appointment. We are on the Fresh waiting list for tax consultation. Thanks for these great videos
Thanks for the video! Please can you elaborate on the paragraph at 9:40" regarding income from employment being offered a 50% discount for 5 years?
Josh, so grateful to you for putting this together. I am hoping that it may take longer to "do away" with the NHR Regime, more like year-end of 2024. We are in the process of depositing funds in our Portugal bank account in anticipation of our move there during the Summer of 2024. We have an appointment for our Visa in April, 2024. However, if we do not qualify for the NHR, we will have to look at Italy and Spain. Thanks again.
Thanks for the comment. Just curious, have you looked into how the NHR program would benefit you vs using another part of the Portuguese tax code? That could be something worth investigating. - Josh & Kalie
@10:28 he says "But as opposed to zero, in Portugal, you'll pay 28%. It kind of drops the whole point of having these structures". I'm confused by this comment. I have a company that is managed in Cyprus, but I plan to rush to Portugal now to get the NHR. I should still be able to benefit from the 0% dividends right? I'm afraid the editing confuses me a little on the context of what he was referring to. Did he just mean that it makes no sense if your company's residency changes from Cyprus to Portugal, or was he referring to Portugal somehow disregarding the management of the company being abroad?
¡Gracias! J&K, you guys are just so impressive. :)
Our pleasure! Thank you very much. We appreciate the channel support. - Josh & Kalie
Adding this on top of the already high property prices, Portugal is definitely becoming less attractive as a retirement destination.
@@fs5775 It's not the few immigrants that are moving there and buying a property to live in that is driving up real estate prices.
It is "investors" buying up multiple properties and turning them into Airbnbs or trying to flip them for profit.
Foreigners as well as locals all doing it. Been seeing it since '16 -'17.
Check out the top 10 SIGIs in Portugal, and look into quasi tax exemptions they receive.
They were approved by the government in 2019. Probably around the time you started seeing a faster increase in property prices.
They focus on rental income which means they build out properties for rent, not for sale. Before developers mainly focused on building for sale.
Top investors are Portuguese and Spanish companies. @@fs5775
Also keep in mind that large foreign investment companies are investing in commercial properties vs residential.
As far as short-term Airbnb properties, I don't know the specifics on foreign vs national investment, but I do know that when we were talking to Portuguese Real estate professionals in '18, '19, and '20 we were told that Brazilians, Israelis, Chinese, and other Europeans made up the majority of foreign investors buying multiple properties. They weren't companies, but individuals or groups that were buying multiple properties at one time.
Perhaps Portugal should consider limiting foreign property ownership to only occupation vs investment speculation.
As an American digital nomad, before watching this video I was unaware that with NHR I would have paid 0 tax to Portugal or the US (via FEIE) on my earned income for 10 years - except for 15% Portuguese social security, whereas without NHR I will pay nearly 40% Portuguese tax on that income - including social security. Now I cannot move to Portugal. This has ruined my decade.
As a digital nomad I saw no advantage to going to live in Portugal. I spent a few months this year there I was in Asia before that. I went to Lisbon but found it too expensive and too boring to stay long term. The taxes are too high and the cost of living keeps going up. I decided to move back to Osaka Japan where I get more bang for my buck and the lifestyle is great. Talking to many digital nomad friends who went there are now leaving. Even the digital nomad visa is too much of a hassle unless you really really want to be in Portugal at any cost. Lots of better places to be in my opinion that Portugal.
Go to Italy
WOW!! This is SUPER INSIGHTFUL. THANK YOU!
Thank you for watching! - Josh & Kalie
Can we have another video on the freelancer and self employed in Portugal without being a NHR ? What are the rates for taxes , and the conditions ?
Thank you very much
Additional info for non NHR. The flat tax on capital gains of 28%, can be applied if you don't reach the top bracket of the progressive IRS scale and your gains where from assets you acquired more than one year ago. This law was introduced in 2023. On top of that the rental income flax tax change from 28% to 25% it was approved to my knowledge, don't know when it will be applicable but perhaps in 2024. Additional to the IRS, all the income on the last scale brackets, from 80k upwards, pay an additional income tax called additional solidarity tax of 2,5%. E.g from 80k till 81199€ it's 45%+2,5%, from 81199€ and above it's 48%+2,5%. In reality it's 47,5 and 50,5%, receptively. The IRS scale brackets used in this example are the ones planned for 2024. Final note: Check a proper accountant to validade all this info.
Thank you for the video! Link is good - my mistake, deleting what I said to avoid misinformation
The link in the description section works for us when we use it. - Josh & Kalie
Great info, thanks so much!
Portugal is one of the worst places to live in relation to taxes. Just forget this country, no matter what you do you get screwed. The idea that 48% tax is fine... add social to that at 15%, VAT 22%. It is impossible to consider Portugal as a long term to live in as even if you have NHR tax status, what do you do in 10 years. Run, Run, Run away from Portugal. The politicians are idiots.
The shine has now faded for many looking for their forever home in Portugal,
@@tinglestingles More like reality. The country has a massive issue with housing. They don't let you build anywhere and in the lucky chance you find a property where you can build it will take 2-3 years from start to finish. It just isn't worth it on any level. They have a lot of cheap land, and it is cheap for a reason, because the land can be used for one thing, sheep grazing.
@@mikemurphy7519 Politicians are always idiots - So, many will leave early - before the 10 years are up, others may stay on hoping for a change in fortunes. Housing 'supply' is THE big problem! So, the government tries to reduce demand. Almost correct... they need to build and build again, but you're correct the environment just isn't right for house builders both big and small. See Portugal News today... "Swiss investors pull out due to end of NHR
A Swiss developer who had planned an investment of more than 100 million euros in Lisbon has decided to cancel the project after António Costa announced the end of the non-habitual resident regime (NHR) in the country."
The less investment from overseas the more stays in Portuguese hands.@@tinglestingles
@@2kool4myskool except... 28% of Portuguese workers have left and due to the cancellation of NHR are extremely unlikely to return. Portugal is unfortunately left with almost the oldest population in the EU. 7% are immigrants coming to Portugal to live, work and invest. Just 7% and 28% gone. I would have thought after the government had educated the workforce they would want them to comeback, or are they happier getting cheaper labour from their former colonies?
It seems that the best solution for someone earning a decent income is find 3 countries they enjoy spending time. One is a country with favorable tax regime, the other 2 countries are simply ones that you enjoy. Could be Spain, Portugal, Greece. Any of the high tax countries. Log your tax residence in the tax haven, then spend several months in each of the other 2 lifestyle countries. UAE will now give you tax residency with just 90 days a year in the country (with some specific criteria). So long as you don't inadvertently become tax resident in a high tax country, you should be fine. Granted this does raise the cost over just one location, but if your income is high enough, it can be well worth it. Not to mention the variety of multiple locations, and the chance to select the weather that you like best.
I like your solution. :-) - Josh & Kalie
Yeah. Lot of moving around to avoid additional taxes. Really unfortunate. Scouting PT right now, when i heard about this.
The food was not great anyway, other things also questionable…
Excellent video thanks guys, keep em coming !
Thanks, will do! - Josh & Kalie
End result, fewer people with large incomes, and more with smaller incomes wanting to reside in Portugal. Is that better?
The problem with unaffordable housing in Portugal is tourism, not people wanting residence. Apparently no one there bothered to look at the numbers, or more probably, just went with the blame it on immigrants rant that is so popular in both the EU and US.
Make Portugal Great Again?
Very informative! Thank you Josh and Fresh! Just one question for clarification: does one need to permanently move to Portugal before 1/1/2024 in order to apply for the accelerated tax residency? Or just a week of visit to submit the application?
Thank you! Sorry, I don't know how to answer that. That's a question for Fresh or another tax pro. - Josh & Kalie
My plans are to move there within five years, now that’s in jeopardy, but I’m hoping🤞Portugal will see that this approach will dramatically slow down the migration of people to the country and thus, adjust their tax laws. Do you think that’s possible?
There is already proposed language for the updated NHR which will incentive targeted skills. They are basically sunsetting the breaks for retirement/passive income.
I think if your plan is 5 years, the landscape will change and it could be clearer what it'll be like in 5 years in 3-4 years so that way you'll be able to make a better decision so in the meantime, keep your options open and enjoy researching. That's a fun and exciting process. - Josh & Kalie
@@ExpatsEverywhereWho knows what it's going to be like in five years?❤
@@lauras8674 Right. It could go either way like many things in life, it depends on timing.
@@ExpatsEverywhere You got that right! Still retiring in Europe! Cheers!
I am paying 35% on my savings account interest . It's huge.
Is it possible to apply for the NHR now before securing the D7 or digital nomad visa? Is it just a NIF that is required to apply for the NHR status?
You have to be living in Portugal with an address to apply for NHR. It's the first taxable year in Portugal a person can apply for NHR.
Yeah you can apply for NHR without D7.
1) Need a rental/house (address)
2) Need to change your tax residency to Portugal
3) have a NIF
then Apply.
Good updated information. Missing the estimated time period it takes from applying the "expression of interest visa" to its approval. Also there is limitation of exit you can have once you are in Portugal with Fresh Portugal's help submitting the "expression of interest visa." If Fresh Portugal can touch upon these issues in the video would be very helpful.
I believe they're doing that via their channel and 1 on 1 consultations. - Josh & Kalie
Very helpful and informative 👍
I was looking at moving but now it's all up in the air.
We're glad it was helpful. - Josh & Kalie
Amazing content. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it! - Josh & Kalie
Any recommendations of someone that can give tax advise here in Porto? Just needed a consultation to understand how to take more advantage of my NHR status. Thank you!
Fresh is a good start. - Josh & Kalie
Applications are closed. They are concentrating on existing applications. I am so bummed.
Yes, unfortunately, applications are closed. Let's see how this NHR and change of government thing plays out. We'll know more Nov 29th or 30th. - Josh & Kalie
Thank you for clear content on a timely topic. One question please: the chart shows 2 columns: Tax Rate & Tax Rate (total) what is the difference between the two? Thanks again.
You're welcome. Thanks for watching. I believe that's the effective tax rate. So it's to say that when you jump to the next tax bracket, not the total of your income will be taxed at the new figure but what goes above will be taxed at the new figure. So it appears as if it's an effective tax rate on rate and what the in-between bit is taxed at the next level also with deductions factored in. That's my guess. I'm not a tax expert though. - Josh
One important aspect no one is talking about the current NHR regime is it's only for the first 10 years then the tax benefits end anyway. So eventually it ends for everyone.
The other important point is to apply and get NHR you have to have an address and the D7 visa in Portugal. You can't just have a NIF as anyone can apply for a NIF and never live in Portugal.
a lot can change in ten years; who knows what the world will look like then?
Is there more info on combining a US LLC with NHR?
We have structured our LLC-S corp through an outside of Portugal management company using Fresh as our “management board”. We await our first tax year here in PT.
I own irish domiciled ETFs that have no witholding on dividends paid out. Are these dividends, tax free under NHR, or are they taxed as they have not been taxed at source?
Is the deadline of the end of this year 100%. I saw another video saying that the date to end NHR has not yet been announced and it could be the end of 2024. Also, they are considering some other form of tax benefits for certain careers.
Lots of different different information out there right now.
It might be a political move - who knows how long it will take to make it into law if at all. It may pissed off some non-residence Portuguese who have planned to come back to Portugal and expects to get the NHR status.
The end of 2023 deadline was specified in the budget that was submitted in recent days. Many RUclips videos are not accounting for that. Every expert that I've heard address this issue who knows about the budget has said that the deadline will almost definitely remain unchanged, because the party backing it has a majority in the legislature.
@@David-ii8nu Sigh, I could be a tourist hoping from country to country then :) just pivoted my plan
It sounds like we are 6mths too late in our plan to move. We will really need to do some serious number crunching to see if Portugal is still possible. I really hope so!
The woman in the video states very clearly and with confidence that you need tax residency by Dec 31, 2023 and NHR application submitted by March 31, 2024.
It's not 28% on capital interest but 35%. That's what I had to pay.
That might just be your particular case as the flat tax is currently listed at 28%. For tax filing year 2023, it was listed at 28%. It's possible there was a clerical error so be sure to check that if you feel like you were taxed too much. We've just recently spoken to several people that have noticed errors on their taxes and they're getting that resolved now. - Josh
very informative, thank you
Thank you for watching. - Josh & Kalie
I'm looking to be a consultant and I will likely be a digital nomad in Portugal. To avoid income tax, is it better to get a US LLC or just earn it as a salary. My clients are mostly from the US. I am a Canadian citizen that will use Portugal as tax residence.
Based on the advice I've been given re a UK Ltd company, so similar treatment, I've been advised previously that if you work FROM and IN Portugal, regardless of where your clients are based, if the billed work is done IN Portugal, then this is technically taxable in Portugal at the Portuguese tax rates, since this is not strictly income from a foreign source. I'm sure Fresh (who do my tax returns and are great btw) would be able to advise. It's a tricky area, but to be tax advantageous as a digital nomad, you can't really live here and need to be nomading around the world to benefit from that Visa status.
The earliest appointment they had was November 6th! Unfortunately, Fresh Portugal requires you to pay first, fill out information, and then give you available dates. I just sent an email to them and hoping to get an earlier time or refund.
Their website says they want 900€ just to consider your case
Fresh Portugal changed my appointment to October 16th
Do you mind sharing who you emailed to push your appointment earlier? I tried to email the only email I see on their website and it comes back saying the email doesn't exist... 🤔
@pures1n we can try to connect you. Email Kalie at info@expatseverywhere.com - Josh & Kalie
@David-ii8nu we said that in the video too. - Josh & Kalie
If CGT is not applicable on gilts in Uk does this mean there is no CGT liability in Portugal
I don't believe you can combine NHR flat 20% with the simplified regime's 75% tax basis. It's either one or the other, depending on which will work out best for you. Many don't realize there's the obligatory social security that works out around at an extra 15%, although you do get an exemption in the first year. Portugal is extremely bureaucratic with many unclear laws that each advisor will tell you a different opinion about. You'll spend lots of time speaking with accountants, queuing at government offices, and managing taxes, without ever being certain of what the outcome would be if you're audited because no one fully agrees on what the laws mean or how they're enforced in reality. You will probably have a high tax burden (combined with subpar public services in return), unless you rely on some NHR exemptions that are frankly in an ambiguous legal grey area and subject to change any given year. There is instability in constant changes to schemes like the Golden Visa and NHR, coupled with a growing backlash against expats and locals being priced out. With the NHR being discontinued, it's hard to tell how existing and new residents living on foreign income will be treated. Europe will see growing resistance against migration in general during the coming years, as the situation has become extreme. There is also a huge corruption scandal going on right now regarding mineral exploitation, involving the PM and his cronies. It is a beautiful country with a profound culture, but much better for an extended holiday than to live long term.
Very good video. At 12:22, it seems that we can apply for residency even if not ready to move to Portugal now. Maybe I've misunderstood the process but don't we need a proof of lease in Portugal to apply for residency as retiree? Is the next step should be the application for NHR?
Thank you! We highly recommend you contact Fresh. Link provided in the description section so they can analyze your situation and explain the process to move forward. - Josh & Kalie
This video has confused me more. My immigration lawyer told me that this announcement is a Political statement and that to take place will go trough the same process as the Golden Visa cancellation, which make take some time and the deadline is NOT December 2023. However in other channels states that the NHR is ending on 2023. Is so confusing and just let me tell that I just don't how you can become resident for the remaining of this year, if just getting the Visa appointment has ben impossible.
Sorry for the confusion. The general assumption is that because the current party has majority power and they've stated that they want the program to end in 2024 that people should be prepared for it to end at the end of 2023. As of right now, the information that we have is that it's not final. - Josh & Kalie
@@ExpatsEverywhere Thank you for the information J&K!
@@dianapitt5665 You're welcome.
The important timing aspect is that this announcement was one small clause from hundreds of 2024 budget announcement/decisions soon to be ratified into law by the parliament, which as@@ExpatsEverywherehave said, has to be voted through, but the party has a significant majority in parliament, so would only fail thanks to a rebellion, and could be voted through based on the overall budget approval. It's because it's included in this round of approvals that the general consensus now is that it will go live on Jan 1 2024, making it necessary for you to tick all the boxes, and for 2023 to be THE final FIRST year of any NHR application. My understanding is that NHR 2023 can still be done and approved by March 31st 2024, but you will need to be prove that you hit all the criteria on Dec 31st 2023, i.e. address in Portugal, with LT contract supporting materials, and this being updated in the finanças portal to show you were living in Portugal in 2023 for the first time/first time in 5 years for returning citizens.
@@PortoAR Way better said than me, Anthony. Thank you. - Josh
Is the solidarity tax new and does it apply to those under NHR?
Also, for scenario 2 (digital nomad freelancer under NHR), would I need to be registering as a freelancer in the countries I'm working in outside of Portugal to be exempt from tax for that income?
Josh, wondering if US government pensions are taxed in Portugal without NHR?
I don't believe they are because it is covered in the US PT taxation treaty, but you can read the treaty yourself. It's at the IRS website and isn't that long. And by government pension, you mean military, federal or state worker, right?
Yes, thank you!@@hikergirl603
I am moving to retiree to Portugal next year 2024. I know, taxes are going to be increased but don’t have choices. How can I get in touch with any of those people who were in your video today that they can help me. Thank you to clarify my mind. ❤❤😊Your video was excellent with a lot of information.
You're welcome. Thanks for watching. There's a link in the video's description section. You can use that to contact Fresh. - Josh & Kalie
What about retirees on government (public) pensions. I've read multiple sources and spoken to one Portuguese tax specialist in Coimbra stating that these pensions are only taxed in the origin country.
@@smacktard6051I have found it in a pdf titled Taxation of Pensions in Portugal. It’s a document produced by a Tax service in Algarve.
@@smacktard6051Skip Fresh. Just another form of inflated prices associated with immigration and opportunism.
This is devastating for a retiree. - I can not move there now...what a shame!
Look into France. It doesn’t cost much more, but it has mostly first world infrastructure. The tax treaty with the US is extremely favorable for US retirees. Pensions, capital gains, and rental incomes from the US are not taxed by France.
I already had my scouting trip planned & paid for later this month, but will be jumping across the border to Spain to check out what they have to offer for this retiree. There is no way I could get the NHR status before it ends, so will be looking at other options.
@trave7644that’s true. All of Europe is in trouble over the long term. Mass migration out of Africa will crush their societies, unless radical changes in policy are enacted.
I'm a bit baffled about the taxation. I would be applying for a D7, as l would be as a retiree and getting a state pension plus a government pension from where l worked. So, are you saying I'll be doubly taxed by the UK and then again in Portugal? I understood l would have to transfer my pension to Portugal, so would l still get taxed and if so, at what rate?
I am a Portuguese citizen,planning on moving in a year in two, my question is how do I apply for the nor before end of year
I welcome all foreinghners, but if you have cash to pay 2.500€/M for an appartment, than you have cash for good taxation...
I have no problem paying fair share of taxes and the NHR is not what initially drew my interest in Portugal. I actually think the NHR is too generous to foreigners. Some tax incentive to draw foreign capital to Portugal when it needed it in 2009 was not a bad idea, but it was too extreme in my opinion. I’m actually happier to pay taxes to Portugal for the kinds of social services it pays for and I would benefit from rather than to the US that spends it on the opposite of what I would like it to pay for (like military, not healthcare and education). I resent that even if I live outside the US I still have to file and pay some taxes to US (yes, there is a tax treaty between US and Portugal through which I could get foreign tax credit toward US taxes to avoid double taxation, but it’s still a hassle that US demands this).
I know several people who moved to Portugal, and no one I know pays that much. The average is about €1300 per month, if they’re renting.
@@GeraldFigal You will not pay taxes to the US. Your Portugal tax bill will probably be something like 4x more than your US tax bill so completely offset your US taxes because of the double taxation treaty.
@@chriskasprzyk6235 Yes, I think what got lost in this discussion (and in interviews) is the tax treaty and how it works in practice. If under the NHR the offset that the foreign tax credit provides basically only means that you end up paying what you would have to Uncle Sam but that Uncle Sam has to share with Portugal, then yeah, without NHR it is likely that Uncle Sam gets cut out completely while you pay more to Portugal. That scenario, however, raises the specter of Uncle Sam wanting to revise the treaty to get his pound of flesh. Speaking of pounds, I read that the UK (which has many times more of its citizens living in Portugal than the US does) might be "revisiting" its tax treaty with PT.
@@GeraldFigal With or without NHR makes no difference what you pay to the US except for niche cases or extremely high incomes. US taxes are so far and away lower than Portuguese taxes, even under NHR that you will get a complete offset. I've actually done the math and found under NHR my effective rate is basically 20% since it is flat with no deductions and just slight offset due to capital gains. Without NHR my effective rate is a little under 39%. Meanwhile in the US my effective rate is a little over 12%. That disparity is one of the primary differences why the US has such a better and more dynamic economy than PT, or even the EU.
Do you have contacts (maybe this guy?) who can help apply for the NHR in 2024? I qualify under the exemptions to still apply for the old NHR scheme until the end of 2024, but my lawyer dropped the ball and am seeking someone who can clarify one question I have as well as help me get the NHR ASAP. Thank you so much Expats Everywhere!
Shoot Kalie an email at info@expatseverywhere.com and copy & paste this message. She'll get you connected. - Josh & Kalie
A lot to digest… my son has Portuguese citizenship however I don’t and and am retired. I will be buying the property for him and be living off of my pension and any savings I have. Not sure how the NHR would affect my chance to retire to Portugal. Impossible to rush there to apply for NHR status. Will check here with the Portuguese Embassy and Consulate here in Canada to see what they advise… otherwise I will look to go to Italy instead…
Go to the right places in Italy and the tax situation is even better than it would be in Portugal even with NHR with the special tax regime of a flat 7% for all worldwide income.
Where are the right places? Location?
@@janiswilliams3732 look up italy special tax regime. basically you have to have a non-italian pension, for example SS, and you need to live in a municipality of less than 20,000 in certain regions. mostly southern and central italy regions like sicily, calabria, etc.
4:48 3:56 So when you pay this flat rate of 20% what is claimable as rebates and benefit's? When benefits does one have for contribution to the state social security of 11+23.75%? What's the pension payout at the moment, what about medical stuff and schooling is this free? Please if someone can offer me some assistance. Don't have enough informa 5:55 tion on Portugal taxes. If it a haven or walking into a nightmare. Add the social and taxes it half of salary will I have enough to survive with income left.
Great information in one spot. I have seen 3 other RUclips videos and left despondent. This video has provided me with a bit of hope that there are options available. We are arriving in lisbon on Thursday. We have our NIF, a bank account, and a deposit on a house in central portugal, waiting on a close date. Our plans were to spend, 5-6 months per year in portugal and the balance at our home in Thailand. My question is this, as we do not intend on getting citizenship, and we will not be living full time in portugal, does the NHR visa even make sense, and would we be paying taxes at an elevated rate or be considered short term visitors or tourists?
The NHR is not a visa. It is only a taxation framework. Not a visa.
@@JasonJFlippingLife my apologies, the D7 visa is the path we would take
@@chinesecrested9528 That plan won't work. The D7 is valid for 4 months, then converted into a 2-year residency permit. You only have 2 entries into Portugal on a D7 until you get your residency permit card, which might not arrive for a couple of months. So, for your first 5 or 6 months, you effectively only have 1 entry into Portugal. After you get your residency permit card, you must spend 16 of those 24 months in Portugal, with no absence greater than 6 months. So, you'd basically need to only spend 4 months each year in Thailand at the most. You will also be tax residents of Portugal, subject to Portuguese tax. So, the NHR would have helped you, but there could be other taxation options to help manage your tax costs.
In your case it's best not to be a resident if you want to live in multiple countries as you will be taxed in every country you have residency.
@@SynergyOfTwo thanks, we gave gone over every possible senerio, and your comment makes the most sense towards what we want to accomplish. 90 days on 90 days off etc make more sense now
A thought: Tax liability in Portugal (and US) is on income, regardless of source, not net wealth. One could theoretically live off of cash savings (sitting presently in high-yield online savings accounts, laddered CDs, MMAs) and have to pay income taxes only on earned interest. Doing the math for that scenario versus having all your cash in retirement accounts that would likely have higher returns over time but then incur higher taxes when disbursed as needed might be worth investigating. (My 403b is pre-tax-advantaged so I pay upon disbursements-mandatory minimum disbursements won’t happen until 73 years old I think) Besides my 403b, Sara has an equally well-funded IRA account while we’ve also been stockpiling cash savings (I’ve put us under an austerity program to save more cash now to hedge against stock market volatility). That combined with the golden parachute I’ll get from employer by retiring before 68 would theoretically get us through several years on cash alone without claiming social security or drawing on retirement accounts. Hmm… maybe Portugal is still very much in play. Need to see a financial planner soon.
Very good idea and something I am also investigating. Only issue with it that I see is being able to prove fulfillment of income requirements for D7 visa. I'm understanding they will accept proof of assets, but the problem is that unlike with the income level, there is no set amount of assets that are required so it is left to the individual consular offices that you deal with. Might be easiest to take out a fixed term SPIA with a payout that meets income requirement and the rest that you actually need comes from the savings withdrawals.
@@chriskasprzyk6235 Exactly the kind of thing I’ve been thinking about too. The D7 income threshold is pretty low, so you could take minimal disbursements which when combined with any interest income on cash savings would easily meet threshold. In fact, I would work out in general a balance between drawing on taxable income and using cash in a way that would keep tax rate reasonable and maintain reasonable cash cushion.
@@chriskasprzyk6235 but extremely low-income requirements.
Excellent timely video! to the point! I have a NIF and Bank Acct. Can I still apply without a D7 ?
Hello Sir , would you recommend moving to Portugal with approx 18k EUR per year for a Non EU resident. Will we be eligible for NHR as well ?
Hi it looks like Fresh Portugal have now stopped taking anymore more people on to help them. Do you know of any other companies you could recommend please.
Hi Gary, write Kalie at info@expatseverywhere.com as she might know. Fresh had to stop Nov 1st to try to serve all of the applicants they had in. The window is very narrow now. - Josh & Kalie
As of late Portugal has become too expensive to live in, plus new laws regarding taxes will get deep into retirees and peoples pockets, crazy taxes, rents are threw the roof, real estate getting sky high, how the heck are the locals dealing with this high cost of living now, because high cost locals seem getting fed up with foreigners living there now, truly crazy!! i remember the old Portugal!!
the old Portugal will be back soon. But be careful what you wish for.
We are visiting Portugal in November to scout but now I’m confused. He said to apply even if you don’t have Portuguese visa but you need an address and nif right? What do I need to exactly because I think I got a bit of conflicting info from the video. Thank you so much in advance!
Hi, it's probably best to speak with Fresh directly. Their initial plan isn't to do the immigration work but to declare your interest in Portugal. You will need a NIF, but the address thing will come in time but not immediately from what we know about their strategy. - Josh & Kalie
My adult son & I are dual US & EU citizens. My family is considering a move to Portugal in a couple of years. My moms 84 US citizen & my husband US citizen. Do all of us need to file for the tax status, or R my son & I exempt because of EU citizen status?
Is there a low tax incentive for those wanting to create jobs via businesses there?
Very difficult to understand some of this information surely if if there is a double taxation agreement between Portugal and the country that you reside in you will not be paying more than the net effective tax rate so for example as a retiree in Portugal if I pay an effective 40% tax on my monthly pension income received in South Africa are you saying I’m going to pay another 48% on that gross income? Does not make sense, is my tax liability in Portugal not the net of the two which would be 8%?
I agree. It was very difficult to understand.
im not a tax expert, but my understanding is that generally you pay tax first to the country where you have residence for that year ( more than half the year ), then you have a deduction for that in the other country,
I’d Check if 🇿🇦 South Africa and 🇵🇹 Portugal have a double “taxation treaty” agreement where if your home country taxes you first, Portugal cannot.
If you move to PT and establish tax residency then you should only owe taxes to PT, especially if SA and PT have a DTA. Only the US (among 1st world countries) taxes on citizenship. Also, be very careful the difference between marginal tax rate and effective tax rate.
Either way your still paying a lot of tax.
Please confirm. It's possibly to visit, let's say next month, be approved for NHR, then apply for residency in a year or 2?
It's quite confusing. The requirements for fresh "accelerated tax residency" program assume the followings:
Minimum qualification criteria (without these we cannot get started):
a NIF number.
A bank account in the EU - preferably in Portugal.
A long term rental contract in Portugal.
Access password to the Finances Portal (if you applied for a NIF with a tax representative, please ask them to urgently obtain this code (normally takes 1 week).
I don't know you, but it seems a long shot if you NOT already have these requirements met? I hope I am wrong about this.
@@josephkeith6954: I had the same reaction. The Accelerated Tax Residency (as on their website) also had those four minimum qualification criteria - “without these we cannot get started”. We had been planning to relocate toward the end of 2024. If one gets tax residency, does that mean that any current income (like my current salary) in the USA will be subject to Portugal’s taxation (as well as the US)? I am also confused about steps and feasibility of success.
In addition, the requirement to have a long term rental contract in Portugal seems to contradict the idea of gaining NHR now and deferring it until the time to relocate (in some years) occurs. Or is the long-term rental contract just the (sunk) cost to pay to get NHR now.
What happens if you get the NHR but go back to the states for a few years, do you still have to file taxes in Portugal?
You have to file taxes every year in every country you are a resident even if you are living abroad in any country. Even if it's to file zero income in the USA or Canada.
When o e will get taxed? After 183 days or right away?
Already, where is the new Portugal?
Is it "haven" or "heaven"? It is a bit subtle, but changes a lot.
Some people call places like Portugal or at least schemes like the NHR, "tax havens", which is why we went with that theme. - Josh & Kalie
Is there even time to get NHR anymore? If you're only just starting looking at a rental? Don't you have to have "permanent residency" which takes 4 months to get NHR? Or can permanent residency be established whenever you have a place to live?
If you started today, there’s no way to get it before 2024. We have our VFS global meeting for the temp residency you must get first in Nov. You must have a place to live before this meeting. It’s 60 for the temp visa. Then about 30 to schedule SEF meeting for more permanent residency. Then that takes 2-4 months to get the 2 year resident Visa. Then you apply for tax residency, then NHR. Another 60 days. No way to get it done before 2024. We are looking at April 2024 to have it completed. But now…we don’t even know if we are going to do it anymore. Sucks.
@@mt4100 You don't need resident card to become a tax resident actually. You can change your tax status to Portugal, then apply for NHR. I talked with an accountant and lawyer today and thats what I've been told.
You basically join a company, rent a unit before end of year, swap your tax residency, apply for NHR. Done.
I was told by my Portuguese lawyer today that there is no was to get Tax residency without a resident visa if you are applying for a D8 visa.
@@mt4100 You may want to find a new lawyer.
There are two ways to get tax residency.
1) spend 183 days of the year in Portugal.
2) have a place to live in Portugal. Rental must be at least 1 year lease. OR have a house must be owned by you.
@@pures1nyou can’t stay in Portugal for more than 90 days without a visa…even with a rental agreement or a home purchase. So are you saying you don’t need a visa to gain tax residency?
I’m glad I watched your video but I’m still confused. I thought I was moving to Pt in fall next year. I’m totally US pension income…retired educator. I didn’t think I had to worry because of US & Pt treaty until I saw this! I just applied for my passport. Do I have to go to Pt to get NHR through Fresh in next 2 months or can it be done from US? I did request expedited passport but it could be Jan. when it arrives. Thanks for the video!😊
I've read several sources and spoken to my tax specialist - Government pensions (public pensions), which includes public school teachers' pensions, are only taxed in the origin country (Great news). However, total income, including the pension and all other forms of income is used to determine the rate of taxation on your other income (rental income, dividends/interest, 401k/403b, IRA, Social Security, etc.). However, in my situation I'm the only income earner so because I'm married this rate will be divided by 2, and then there are the deductions for having to young boys. I'm meeting online with my Portuguese tax expert to discus our unusual circumstance because I'm 60, retired, have public pensions, a wife and two children. Fingers crossed. We have our NIFs and preregistered our boys in a private school and planning to move early summer 2024.
If your particular taxes go up a lot without the NHR, it could negate much of the cost of living advantage people want to move to Portugal for.
Thanks for the video. Just a Q, it may not take effect in Jan 2024 right? The Portuguese government has not announced a date yet. Am I right to say this?
It actually has to pass as legislation. However, there is already language for a new NHR that sounds much like Canada or New Zealand laws - tax incentives for young, high tech, medical, engineering, and educators at all levels. I can't fault Portugal for switching to luring "the best and the brightest" to fuel their economy and educate it's children and young people work in a thriving modern economy. Old people generally take way more than they give simply because of frequent use of the healthcare system.
@@jedi_mapperp4073 Thanks for the clarification. Ordinarily, how long does it take to pass a legislation? Deadline given, as I understand it, for tax residents and holders of D Visas on 31st Dec '23 is 31st March 2024 to get their NHR. Does this still apply since it has to pass legislation?
@@jedi_mapperp4073 Also, I heard the new tax regime will tax foreign passive income (pensions, dividends, rental, etc) a flat rate, 10%, 20%, can't recall the exact %, is this true?
Will backfire on Portugal.
Can one get tax residency before the D7 visa application is approved? I have started the process and have a NIF number and bank account opened.
This is where we are exactly. Can you run the tax side and the visa side simultaneously? It might work then. Otherwise, if you need the visa first…it won’t in time based on this video.
What if your European do you even need Nhr
I am reading that the new rules are: a flat 20% tax rate for a decade and a 50% tax exemption on professional income, up to a cap of €250,000, for five years. If only I could understand what this truly mean for my case
IMO if you want tax benefits you should open a business and employ people, business owners take all the risk so should get tax breaks, mr German pensioner or American software developer should pay taxes like everyone else
No second talked about crypto
I am portuguese living in Norway, can i apply to NHR even if i am not moving right away? Would this mean i would have to start paying taxes in Portugal, or can i still pay taxes in Norway and when i move to Portugal then i start paying taxes in Portugal under the NHR status? thanks
I am asking since you mentioned that NHR can be "secured"
As long as you set your tax residency to Portugal, have a NIF, and an address nothing is stopping you from applying NHR as long as you have not lived there in the past 5 years.
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Suggested Mrs. Benita Barnes
I don’t believe this change will give some Portuguese what they’re looking for (ex., equality of outcome).
Going forward, a wealthy person will simply purchase a property there, then do the Schengen shuffle to avoid Portuguese taxation while using the 2nd home as a vacation destination.
I thought that’s how the current NHR is used in practice for most anyway. Under the nee rule, perhaps it will only result in less time spent in Portugal yet property purchases remain very similar.
I think some Portuguese may believe some lies by their gov, although i’m not an expert. I do know that smart $ remains smart, and politicians will not stop pandering to the wealthy, despite what they may convince their citizens of…
I’m not wealthy but I know I can bounce in and out of Schengen using short term rentals during the low seasons and still live for less than $36,000 a year and not pay income taxes to any country except my home country. I was going to become a citizen of PT but screw it, I will just be a poor tourist. It is their loss in the long run.
The funny thing about all of this its that before the government talked about tax changes, everything was great and prety. Now its looking everyone act like rats abonding ship and searching for the next one where they can live on their advantage.
We're not sure that's exactly the case. A lot of people in the RUclips communities aren't these high net individuals that people think all foreigners are. There are pensioners that planned on X amount to live on because that was the rate after taxes that they had and that's not longer the case. There's also been a decent amount of interest lost due to rising cost of living, which would effect people on fixed incomes more vs people that have active incomes. It is what it is. This is how people migrate around. - Josh & Kalie
The answer is Hell
You have to wait for the 10 of Mars for the results of elections. Then you know what is going to hapen to NHR.
I’m not ready to move to Portugal full time so is it still worth it for me to buy a property?
Hi, that's a very loaded question. What do you want to do with the property? What are your hopes for the property? What's your risk tolerance? It's not a simple yes or no. If you want a simple yes or no, let's say, "Yes!". - Josh & Kalie
@@ExpatsEverywhere I will be there at the end of November in Lisbon and Nazareth, I wanted to rent the property when I wasn’t there ?
If the only reason to live in Portugal was a tax break, don’t came tell us how much you love the country and the portuguese. adeus!
I will retire in Spain 🇪🇸, because as a double tax agreement whit United States 🇺🇸
Portugal does too though. Not sure what you mean by your comment. - Josh & Kalie
Leave us ALONE!!!! WE CANNOT RENT AN APARTMENT in our OWN capital!!!!
You want to live here and benefit from being here so pay taxes here and stop complaining.
Portugal = tax hell, live or invest there never ever
🇵🇹
Bye Portugal...
Portugal =tax hell
First.
So fast, Jon! - Josh & Kalie
Foreigners were already moving and investing in this country way way before the nhr existence so I’ll bet it will still remains the same. Also you need to know that the nhr tax break cost to this nation something around 1.3 billion euros and about 60 % of the nhr beneficiaries didn’t leave the country. There are no such thing as free lunches. Also please talk to official accountant besides tax lawyers, believe me
The tax break costs aren't a real cost because it's very likely that is money the government wouldn't receive since that person wouldn't come without the tax break. NHR has been in place since 2012, which is likely around the time the country started to recover for the financial crisis that started in 2008-2009. - Josh & Kalie
@ExpatsEverywhere Well, I disagree as tax break is always a cost to a nation's finances because trickle-down economics never works, my friend. The NHR was a temporary measure, and it doesn't make any sense anymore besides creating an injustice to its national population. Again, it's all about balance and social justice. The impact of nhr on the economy was not that significant and the same about the golden visas. I'm 45 years old, and I'm from the Algarve, and let me tell you, Quinta do Lago and Vale do Lobo was made and grew way before the nhr existence. It was the exporting companies, technology and tourism that were the main players for the national economic recovery. The nhr did have some impact on the recovery, but not that much.
Cheers.😀
@@zepedro6666 I think it's healthy to agree. What I can say is that without numbers to analyze, I can't say one way or another what the real impact it is. What i can say is that to say NHR holders "cost" the government X amount is very disingenuous. These are tax-breaks on foreign sourced income after all, which is a bit different from taxes generally captured or not in the case of trick-down economics. Some might argue that NHR tax revenues is free money. ;-) - Josh