This is my home park. Most of the time when the missile range is testing, there’s usually some announcements (via news reports, and radio) about road closures and the park being closed. On one hand, the military bases employ a decent amount of people who live in Doña Ana and Otero counties, but on the other hand, the oldest footprints in America were found here and we could lose valuable assets to understanding our past.
Yeah, this is a very interesting administrative and management situation. It's one of the things that drew me to this story. White Sands has a whole set of challenges facing it that no other park really does, on top of all the other issues that parks typically have to face...
I totally agree. Army plundered and popped Victorio Peak in the 90's after taking it from a family who found gold there in the 30's. The military has tunneled and built underground infrastructure all over the place so to imagine we lost some history already, isn't too much of a stretch.
I feel like far away, untouched places (that are relatively flat) will always be places of significant interest for military and conservationists. In my country you have a rare breed of wild horse and many rare plants in a sulfur ash desert which have to be managed whilst also allowing our army to undertake drills and testing
It's a fascinating, if difficult, management situation for sure. White Sands is unique in that sense and its one of the main things that drew me to this story in the first place. I find these sorts of tensions so fascinating to explore.
I loved this video and the way you break things down - have you ever covered Channel Islands National Park in California? The US Navy uses San Clemente island for training and bombing. There’s been controversy around how dangerous and intense the training can be.
I live on the NW corner of Stallion missile range, so pretty far away from White Sands but at the north end of the military land. They provide a few jobs here and there and of course tourism twice a year for the Trinity site but overall I am not a fan of my state being used as a testing and dumping ground for the military-industrial complex.
I think I'm beginning to understand the numbers surrounding your state, low GDP, lower than average salaries, an extraordinarily high amount of federal funding going to the state..... 🤔
So glad a National Park could give you that experience! Travel is a passion of mine as well and parks are a big part of that. Really great way to see the world and broaden my horizons. Thanks for sharing!
I have been to White Sands and there were numerous signs about what to do if you found an unexploded ordinance. Not to mention all the signs to shut down the park in the event of missile testing. It is an interesting juxtaposition of various government factions at war with each other, no pun intended! That said, the whole "white sands" missile range is unique in the size of the test area and the ability to test various weapons that can't be tested anywhere else due to the safety concerns of it potentially veering off into a populated area.
A little off topic but still dealing with the Southwest... as a USAF Veteran, for the govt basically the entire state of Nevada is a military testing range...
I was an Archaeologist for some 5 years working for Human Systems Research on WSMR mid 1990s. You should mention the introduction for hunting of species like the large aggressive African Oryx. An 8 foot tall steel fence has been erected on the entire circumference of the park to keep them out. In the north end of the range there were/are now herds of hundreds, twenty years ago anyway. You could also mention the newly dated, ancient footprints.
@@NationalParkDiaries The footprints are amazing and have changed our understanding of when the American indigenous people arrived in the Americas. (ruclips.net/video/LS7ChlsZsGI/видео.html) IMHO if the military wasn't there to restrict access, these footprint probably would have been destroyed.
Just went to white sands earlier this year. As we were driving there, I asked my brother to call to make sure they weren’t doing any tests that day, just to be safe. My man straight up asks the ranger on the line, “Hey, are y’all going to be dropping a bomb today?” 😅
While in the military I attended training at White Sands Missile Range in 1971, it is one strange place for sure. I was stationed at Fort Bliss Texas and traveled back and forth, didn't spend a lot of time there and was always impressed with the place.
An Air Force friend told me a friend went to a conservation conference where speaker after speaker was grieving over the loss of an endangered plant. When it was her turn, she took the podium and said, "Does anyone want some? Because I've got 14,000 acres of it, and it's really well protected." You make it sound like the military is carpet bombing the national park, but they're not even carpet bombing the missile range. Test ranges like White Sands have to be huge as a precaution against the occasional stray, which is usually from human error.
I've been there several times and never have been inconvenienced by missile testing. But yes, it does feel like a little oasis in what is a vast military zone. Overall my visits have been very enjoyable and worrying about sunscreen & keeping hydrated was far more pressing than bombs. I would advise anyone interested in seeing the dunes for themselves to make the trip. Fully worth it.
The bomb issue reminds me of my visit to Fort Darling (Drewry’s Bluff). The park’s boundaries end about fifty feet from Interstate 95, meaning you hear traffic from I-95 when you enter the park. It’s probably the same thing, but it’s supersonic jets flying overhead instead of traffic.
No, its not the same thing. Traffic from a freeway/highway is an annoyance. Low altitude flight of a supersonic jet creates sonic booms that literally destroy the adobe structures in the park. Although they may only startle humans they are also damaging to the wildlife in the area.
I was stationed at Holloman AFB for 4 years. In that span there were probably 3-4 aircraft that actually crashed within the parks boundaries. The park is litteraly right off the flight line.
@@NationalParkDiaries it's primarily a training base for UAVs (drone) pilots, as well as other aircraft. So it's very possible it may have a higher crash rate than a typical AFB. Terribly unfortunate location for the park.... Hopefully the disturbances keep trending downward as you mentioned. Great video for a great park. 👍
Never been there for a Missile launch, but I do recall traveling the highway between Alamogordo and Las Cruses and getting buzzed by F15s… that woke you up.
When I was in the National Guard in the 1980s we were firing 105mm howitzers at Fort Indiantown Gap Pennsylvania. One shell not only missed the target, but landed outside not only the "Impack Area" where shells were to land, but outside the actual borders of Fort Indiantown Gap and landed in the neighboring State Game lands where the Appalachian trail went through on a long abandoned railroad line (the shell missed the trail and no one was hurt) . That caused the whole fort to shut down till they found out what happened . No further training could take place and no movement of any equipment including the howitzers. It turned out that the soldier assigned to set the "Charges" on the shell being fired made a mistake due to lack of training. At that time period 105mm rounds came with seven bags of gunpowder (Called "Charges"). Fort Indiantown Gap was a "Charge Two" training area, i.e. you never were to use more then two "Charges". The "Charges"were numbered 1,2,3,4,5,6 and 7. The actual "Fire mission" had called for a "Charge 2" loading. The soldier, instead of removing all of the Charges except for Charges 1 and 2, removed the last two "Charges" and put them in the "Fire Pit". The "Fire Pit" was a hole dug behind the Howitzers to put all "Charges" not used. When the unit moved out of the area the "Chief of Smoke" would gather all of the unused "Charges" and line them up and burn them. The "Charges" are only dangerous if confined in a small area like a howitzer tube. Out in the open the bag just burned very rapidly. When the Fort was shut down, no one could move anything, including the bags in the powder pit. After couple of hours examination the problem was found, to many "Charges" in a powder pit. I mention this here for while uncommon, mistakes happen and military shells land where they should not. Just be careful around any military base for mistake do occur. Sidenote: My unit used M101A1 105mm Howitzers and those WWII veterans were restricted to "Charge 6". "Charge 7" was added in the 1960 to the then new M102 105mm Howitzer (The M102 was much lighter then the M101 A1, but stronger so it could handle "Charge 7" while the M101A1 could not). In the 1990s the US Army adopted a new 105mm Howitzer, the M119. The M119 is almost as heavy as the M101A1, but even stronger for with the M119 105mm rounds now come with 8 "Charges". The more "Charges" used, the further the shell will go.
I’ve worked on WSMR in avian conservation. And it is truly one of the coolest ecosystems out there. (The mesquite hummock scrubland south of the park) but it is also very scary, like you’ll hear the wildest noises out there, or sirens letting you know they’re testing weapons. All in all though, it was fun to work on.
White Sands NP should remain whole without a joint area so that it can be fully open to the public and able to protect the landscape and environment without threat of missiles landing on it. The US Department of Defense has approximately 26.4 million acres in the US and White Sands is not the only one in a remote area. If they really wanted to help, they should work with the NPS on creating biological and ecological reserves within the base to act as a buffer zone to the National Park while moving some of the missile testing to other locations. The US Navy has done something similar when they helped rehabilitate and preserve part of San Nicholas Island even though the island is used for weapons testing and practice.
No arguments from me there. I wasn't able to find any info about how the joint area is used today. Back when it was first implemented, there was way more weapons testing in the WSMR, but not sure how much of that has changed today and if there's still a high volume of missiles tested in the joint-use area. Either way, definitely with you on ecological restoration for that part of the park!
You're not wrong. I hate trading one wild space for another, but Utah has dugway and the north end of the salt flats that can do almost any of the same tests conducted down there. I wouldn't say shut down the range, and I love the west desert, but dugway is a lot less unique an ecosystem than the area around whitesands and offers much of the same remoteness and climate they test for down there. Wouldn't be much of a loss to them to create a larger bufferzone around the park, restricting the areas to less energetic testing, restrict supersonic flights near by, and in general be better stewards of the area.
To me this almost comes across as the plot to the sitcom "The Odd Couple" where two completely different people with two completely different values worldviews have to share the same space. I'm actually scratching my head a bit as to how something like this could happen, where the only space available for the military to test its missiles is in the same location as a National Park? I mean, Area 51 does exist despite the long protests of the government, and that's largely empty space. To me it's just a reminder that even when trying to get something right, the federal government still finds a way to get it wrong.
I have been to White Sands once and enjoyed the visit. The next time I was in the area, I went to visit the park only discover it was closed because of government shut down. It is not unusual for the road between Almagordo and Las Cruces to be closed as a result of a missile test. Another issue, you did not mention, has nothing to do with the military, but the state game and fish department. From 1969 and 1977, the NM game and fish department introduced the African Oryx on the missile range. The NPS spent millions to remove the antelope from the park and build a fence to keep them out, not always successful. That story may make an interesting video.
9:42 he said it! " The height of the cold war". I wish there was an actual defined date for T.H.O.T.C.W. it seems like it was the whole period between 52 and 92.
We had a drone go down there. After we recovered it by helicopter and brought it back to fix it, there was about a pound of white sand that came out of it. I gave it to my buddies wife who grip there as a kid. She was very happy and gave me a hug. I told her she needs to visit her parents “back home” more often.
I live out side of Las cruces. The biggest problem i have with the military is. I don't have asses too the other side of the tularosa basin. My small motorcycle can't travel 75mph. There is no side road on highway 70. That is a shame. The Mountain's and trails are amazing in the lincoln forest. Thanks for not giving a crap to the people that support you government!
I lived very close to White Sands for a few years and often had to drive througb the park and missile range. It was not uncommon for the highway to be closed because of bombs.
I visited White Sands once over a decade ago. I had a good time sliding down the sound dunes with a sled. I cant say much about the wildlife since i never saw a single animal there. The park was just white sand far as i could see with an occasional small cactus or tiny patch of desert grass sticking up every few hundred yards. I had a tiny bit of anxiety the entire time at the park that a bomb might accidentally fall into the park. Obviously im fine, but i've never experienced anxiety about being blown up by a falling bomb when visit any other national park.
Did you ask to interview the commanders of either White Sands Missile Range or Holoman Air Force Base? I would think they would be happy to talk to you.
I love White Sands!! There's lots of small reptiles and rodents that are genetically isolated in the dunes and have become white subspecies only found in White Sands. There are also African Oryxes in the area (brought in by the Game & Fish Dept in the 60's and 70's to encourage hunting) and now you might be able to see a few roaming the desert and grasslands. They also have cool stargazing and moonlit hikes led by rangers that I really highly recommend. I also worked on the missile range itself last fall, helping with a study on migratory bird mortality - the entire area is a major corridor for birds in the spring and fall, and there was a big mortality event back in 2020 that we still don't really know the cause of. The other field techs and I had to get military clearance to come on base, and we had to get special training for 1) what to do if we found an unexploded ordinance, since they've been firing them off all over the desert since the 1940's, and 2) what to do if something goes wrong in the radioactive research facilities. Everyone on base that I came into contact with was very nice, and happy we were trying to get to the bottom of what happened with those birds, because the 2020 mortality event freaked a lot of the folks out who live and/or work on base. None of the techs I know of found a UXO, but a few of us saw lots of cool wildlife - coyotes, roadrunners, oryxes, and rabbits were all pretty common, but I came face-to-face with a baby rattlesnake while I was there, and that was a little more than I'd bargained for.
Haha, unfortunately there's a lot of threats facing our parks which I try and highlight here on the channel. I try and keep things balanced between happy stories and sad stories, but there's a lot of sad stories out there unfortunately. Sorry to bring you such distress, but I appreciate you watching and learning about these issues!
Great video. I live in the area. They also have emergency space shuttle runways that are carved into the north west portion of the park . Runway 35 is a little over 5 miles long . Can see it on Google Maps
I was 15 when my father and I were heading to Albuquerque from El Paso. How we ended up on a road going through White Sands Missile Range, I don't remember. I do remember us being stopped. My camera (Pentax K-1000) with telephoto was taken from me and returned without the film. We were allowed to proceed after being instructed not to look left until we were off of the missile range. I don't know where they came from, but the vehicles seemed to appear from nowhere! The best time to visit the Park, in my opinion, is at night during a full moon to see the wildlife emerge from under the "sand." You may see Mitch too. He's a camel brought in on weekends by a wonderful married couple. 🤗
Historically speaking, the National Parks Service and the National Forest Service were at odds with each other. NPS worked for conservation, and NFS worked for the timber industry (as in, cut the trees down for profit).
Fwiw, and I can speak from personal experience, but if you're hearing a loud "boom" at White Sands National Park these days, it's not a bomb, it's a pilot trainee doing a sonic-boom. At Holloman we get them regularly, because they do it over the base for some reason. P.S. As an interesting note, the Park owes its current National Park status to Senator Heinrich's clever earmark addition to a Defense spending bill.
I am a retired U.S. Army EOD tech, and I can't stress enough that if you see fins or remains of a casing do not disturb it. A UXO (unexploded ordinance) is a deadly find, it could be just waiting for the slightest disturbance to detonate. Keep a watchful eye on children as they won't understand and think oh, I found something cool to dig up. Report any found ASAP and be responsible and warn other people off of the potential danger from a safe distance until it can be disposed of safely by trained personnel.
Whole region around Ft Bliss and White Sands has UXOs, mostly Anti Aircraft Artillery shells 37, 40, 75, 90mm are common finds.The 120mm must have had really good fuzes never seen one laying around intact. In 1956 in Central El Paso a 75mm shell was thrown into a fire at a kids birthday party, it had been found by the family out camping in the desert. Can't remember how many were killed but nobody was found at fault. Somewhat recently 10 or so years ago some guys from my town were loading hydra rocket bodies into a pickup as they had done for years but this time as the sand was knocked off one it exploded taking an eye and finger from one guy and opening up the belly of the other guy. Never could find any info on what exploded, maybe a bomblet is my guess. Funny part is they borrowed the truck and the EOD guys blew it up
To me White Sands (as a geeky European) is mostly known from being the site where the US tinkered with the V2 rockets they dragged over from Europe after WWII, and can be considered the area where the US space program began. I honestly didn't even know there was a national park there, but in hindsight it does make sense. Glad to hear that the US military is a bit more amicable about sharing their toys these days :)
I actually read about this in the park's administrative history! The NPS noticed this too - that there was a lot of publicity about "National Defense" and the military efforts there, but nobody ever mentioned the National Park. Yet another set of challenges it had to face!
We hiked there once, and I was not part of the planning, so I had zero expectations. We encountered a road closure due to missile testing, and at the end of our hike were greeted with a sign indicating that going any further would mean entering an unexploded ordinance zone. Cool lizards, though.
Haha, White Sands is definitely one of those parks that requires a little pre-planning! It's certainly a unique experience to be turned away from a National Park for missile testing though lol.
I grew up in west Texas in the 70's and 80's so we made frequent trips to White Sands. Good times, but the sun can be brutal on the dunes. As.far as the military versus the national parks, the military wins. Always has and always will. Park service is just a gnat annoying the military.
A very nuanced and balanced narrative. Difficult to say where you stand. It is clear that a military that is fighting its own instigated wars all over the world needs a place to practice their ordnance. This bloated military should have been forced to set aside part of its allowance to preserve the natural beauty of the park and service its visitors with an enhanced experience of the natural beauty. How did the native people see this park? Can we learn something from them?
It's absolutely false that anyone can rest easy that "the ecosystem (that Yellowstone) is a part of will remain in tact." The Greater Yellowstone ecosystem is under constant threat and slowly degrades by the day. The Forest Service isn't stopping that; nor will it.
It is what it is. White Sands Missile Range is vast and protects native wildlife habitat for many miles around. Missile tests sometimes go wrong. The people at the park must leave during the big tests. The boys with their toys need a place like this to test. White Sands National Park happens to sit right in the middle of this weapons test range. They can both survive and thrive.
I remember the time someone on reddit found rocket parts in the dunes. It's not clear if they had accidentally left the park or not. It was like a sizable COPV
Wow, you sure have some interesting info about White Sands. The odd thing is that you came out with this video the day my wife and I returned home from a month long road trip to Carlsbad Caverns and White Sands NPs. The two made our list of NPs visited to 37 & 38th. We were boondocking 14 miles to the east outside Oliver Lee Memorial State Park. While at the park we were in a 30-40mph wind that blew the sand for miles. While watching the long trail of sand along the mountain range from our campsite, there was a loud explosion and the ground shook, and the trailer rattled. I had read that this could happen while there. Thanks for sharing your knowledge of the parks. We love our NPs.
Maybe someday in the distant future the military area will close and the park’s mandate will be expanded to preserving the military history that once threatened it. After all there are plenty of national park units that preserve military history. Wouldn’t that be ironic.
I live in cruces and wouldn’t mind having a convo with you about it. I’m an IT guy DA county.. but have many friends working there. Plus my dad worked for HELSTF for the “Star Wars” project … in case you didn’t know, the “L” in HELSTF stands for Light Saber 😉
I live only 60 miles from White Sands NP, this video has opened my eyes on how it has to balance itself with the NPS and the military very insightful. P.S. my grandpa worked for White Sands missile range as a mechanic.
One good thing about the military owning this land is that 90% of it is untouched. There is a wildlife refuge in the mountains just to the west of White Sands that contains New Mexicos last indigenous herd of desert bighorn sheep. The missile range is also home to a large herd of gemsbok (oryx) imported for hunting. They have spread South into the Organ mountains and North Franklin mountains.
I love walking back where you see nothing but white sand dunes, sort-of looking like snow, till a cactus with red flowers comes into view or a lizard skitters away
Having lived in El Paso and visited White Sands frequently, I did notice the missile range and the air-field and thought it was weird, however, I didn't realize the Trinity Site is like right there. I've always thought it's far away from where I lived, and it's a pretty big shock when I looked on google maps after watching this amazing video.
My parents took me there either during the 50's or the 60's. I have pictures of us on the dunes. I've never been back but have thought of it many times. Thanks so much for the story. I certain agree with what you said.
Full of conjecture, assumptions - many wrong - and scary pictures/video of explosions and military presence to highlight a predetermined opinion about the relationship. Kindergarten investigation skills at their worst. I’ve lived there for years and the facts on the ground are very different. For example: Did you actually ask where the park gets it’s potable water from? Did you? Of course not.
Going back to this video because I am doing research on more of the obscure (earlier) history of this park. You should really do a video about Tom Charles. Really interesting guy-- could tie it into how regular Americans can support and ultimately be large reasons why parks like this are created.
Now now now sometimes you have to detonate a bomb inside a national park. There recently was a shell uncovered at Gettysburg; for the safety of all there they have to detonate it. Because while yes it is historic and had been there 160 years it is also deadly and possibly not movable…
Talking about tension between conservation and development, you should look into Indiana Dunes National Park. People having been attempting to protect that area for a long time with limited success due to the steel industry.
@@NationalParkDiaries it’s definitely another one of those debatable places for Park status. Was a National Lakeshore, but a State Park was created before that (if I recall) to preserve the area while still lobbying for Park status. Ultimately it got Lakeshore status, but recently received National Park status. Debatable whether it deserves that status, but I want to imagine what it would be like if they got conservation in place before industry took over. Also, the State Park kind of seems somewhat integral to the park as a whole. I want places like this to not be overlooked just because development happened. Development shouldn’t detract from the efforts made to preserve, and that goes for any conservation area.
It's a great story, you're absolutely right. And I couldn't agree more that it shouldn't be forgotten about just because of the development surrounding it. Thanks for your comment, and I'll be putting this on my list of potential videos!
What is the biggest problem for a park? It is people, especially neighbors. Running cattle, planting crops, mining or harvesting lumber is hard on the environment. You know what is great about having WSMR as a neighbor? There virtually no people in the immediate area. WSMR is huge. It encompasses almost 3,200 sq mi (8,300 km2). They run a few tests a month. The missiles and bombs do MUCH less damage to the ecology then people, especially the NFS. The threat of missiles and the restrictions of the military make the area nearly pristine. Given a choice between having farmer or ranchers as neighbors or a missile range, the missile range is much before the the environment.
I was traveling to the white sands park with a girlfriend at the time back when tom tom gps screens were a thing. They werent the best at navigating and the damn thing guided us the gates of the white sands missle test site gate 😂😂😂. When we saw tank crossing signs, towers and razor wire fences we knew were in the wrong place. Lol.
I've been to White sands but not during an active test. I have however been on top of a mountain in a supersonic flight corridor when a fighter went over at well over the speed of sound. I know his altitude was approximately 1,000 ft above the peak that I was on because of the sound delay between when he passed and when we heard the bang. And oh what a bang. It was so intense it literally not dust up off the rocks that we were standing on. The whole mountain turned cloudy with dust that was knocked off the rocks by that shockwave. There's probably a fair number of people reading this who actually know this particular peak. It's called the Tooth of Time. It's made of almost solid granite mostly large boulders. It's hard to even imagine what it would have looked like if we had been standing on a gypsum dune and the same shock wave hit. I could imagine they're being health consequences from that much gypsum being thrown in the air and having to breathe somehow...
In a way, WSNP and Meritt Island National Wildlife Refuge have much in common: active government/military facilities immediately adjacent (Cape Canaveral Space Force Station/Kennedy Space Center are immediately south of MINWR) and increasing development is putting more pressure on the wilderness areas. MINWR is closed many times a year for space activities, especially for NASA launches as well. A huge difference, however, is that KSC is dedicated to preserving wilderness not only in MINWR but also within its own borders: of the KSC 144,000 acres of space within its confines, only 7,500 acres are used. New development requires extensive environmental assessments, and pollution is limited. For example, any water used for sound suppression during a rocket launch is captured and treated prior to being released. Perhaps WSNP should more closely adopt that model so both constituencies are served.
Sad that the park authority is usurped by a military junta. What if anything can be done to end this or pressure for change? We need to support our military, but we also need to accommodate the park mission in a unique area. How about some white sands merch "Stop bombing our park" Thanks for making this video!
I visited White Sands National Park once. From 35,000 feet. It was notable from my viewpoint that it was such a large area of white that my gaze was drawn to it out of my plane window. The size was amazing! I'd love to visit one day on the ground as it is one of the few areas in the lower 48 states my wife and I have not visited. As far as opinions about the military uses I can definitely see both sides in this particular issue. We have a lifetime pass to our national parks and prefer to visit them when traveling over large metropolitan cities with the traffic, (usually heat) business, and tenseness that doesn't happen at the same level as national or state parks. We need to preserve our parks and expand the lands we protect to a much greater area than we do presently. One of the few things our federal government is required by the constitution to obey is "provide for the common defense" as opposed to "promote" the general welfare; not the other way around. Therefore, we have to test our ever evolving technology of defense against our enemies to allow us the continued freedom to visit our national parks! Obviously, we should test in an environmentally responsible way that leaves a clean landscape whether it's the New Mexico desert or even the Pacific atoll of Kawjalein which has been the target of extensive testing of our ICBMs. As far as I know Kwajalein is still environmentally clean. Part of the military's responsibility at White Sands should be to thoroughly clean above, on, and below ground all remnants of testing including shrapnel, radiation, and land mines. The military can afford it! Let's coexist!
Camped quite near there for two weeks, and during that time went to the Trinity site (opened twice annually). Wind storms are common and blinding and the poverty is hard. The people are amazing and very kind,, however. I was an Air Force brat, but the low-flying aircraft even irritated me.
Personally, I would like to see White Sands Missile Range completely closed down and then see the national park expanded. I would like to see habitat restoration take place on the missile range. I might call my congressman and call the White House and inquire about this.
Another similar story lies with Cabeza Prieta National Wildlife Refuge which is adjacent to the Barry M. Goldwater Air Force Range in Pima County, Arizona. I would like to see that base shut down to expand Cabeza Prieta National Wildlife Refuge or perhaps establish a new national wildlife refuge. The federally endangered Sonoran pronghorn (Antilocapra americana sonoriensis) is present on the Barry Goldwater Air Force Range.
I live on the east coast (by birth, not choice), and appreciate the sacrifices that those around White Sands make for our national security. Thank you.
Forgot to mention the unexploded ordnance that has been found and that is warned around the surrounding mountains and also a run away missile that found it way flying 80 miles south into a Mexican border city..and the exploding..
the repeated cuts to massive drum and explosive sequences would be more tolerable had you properly edited their volume in a way that doesn't blast out your viewers speakers .
We Americans need to make decisions on what is priority our national security or total envirometal situation has priority. Seems people think nothing of national security and believe its free
Very cool place. I love all the military history my state has! Also home to American spaceflight. Without this range that has played a huge role in human history I seriously doubt people would even care about it. They would obviously care about the actual white sand dunes but that only makes up like 1 percent of the actual range. The rest is honestly a wasteland and I feel like people who are against using this land for testing aren't actually arguing their point because they care about the land. They are just arguing about testing of deadly weapons in general. I don't think they realize what kind of world we live in and that it wasn't started by America and that weapons testing has to be done. I would love to live a life where nobody fights, but if you live in the real world you know that is very childish. America and its allies offer the best chance at world peace, which will never happen but it would be much worse without them. I think it has to be done somewhere and I'm glad it is here.
Not true. White Sands Missile Range surrounds White Sands National Park on 3 sides. You can visualize it better here: maps.usgs.gov/padusdataexplorer/#/common-views
@@NationalParkDiaries I believe you’re misinterpreting the map. The White Sands military base is located a few miles west of Las Cruces New Mexico. Depending on what part you measure from, 50 to 60 miles to the north east is the White Sands monument, a few miles west of Alamogordo New Mexico on Highway 70. if you look in the protected view, you will see that the two places are very far from each other. I found the common View not to be useful because it obliterates most of the reference points.
@@NationalParkDiaries No way! I just got back from there. Such a deep history with industrialization. Yet Such a beautiful place. Got to check out Turkey Spur Look out!
This area probably shouldn't be part of the NPS but maybe it's good it is. The tug and pull between the departments could force compromise, which could be a good thing. I care more about long-term ecological damage than public access to a NPS location. Our lives our short, while nature survive after it all? Bombs and hiking boots are both a disruption.
It's the one National Park where you should feel free to collect certain things- last time I was there hiked a good way in, with some large bags. Filled the bags with bomb fragments and shrapnel, hiked them back out and dropped them off at the visitor center so that they could be reunited with their rightful owner.
I call BS on that. You didn't get a bunch of shrapnel in the park. Where did you take them to, the Park Visitor Center? It is run by the NPS not the Army. You're full of lies. You do not live here and I do, not many wanted a NPS run White Sands, prices went through the roof from $5 to $25 per car for a 2 mile drive and $15 just to walk in. The National Monument designation was enough. The old employees lost their jobs btw. We are proud of having the only National Park that gets closed for missile tests.
Wow, you are really worked up, aren't you? Yes, I gathered up pieces of exploded ordinance while hiking toward Lake Lucerne, yes, I brought said pieces back to the visitor center, asked if bringing this stuff to them, The National Park Service, was appropriate, and was assured it was, and thanked for my effort. This really happened. In any case try being nice if you wish to question somebody on the internet, instead of screeching away and confirming yourself as a jerky little ass.
This is my home park. Most of the time when the missile range is testing, there’s usually some announcements (via news reports, and radio) about road closures and the park being closed.
On one hand, the military bases employ a decent amount of people who live in Doña Ana and Otero counties, but on the other hand, the oldest footprints in America were found here and we could lose valuable assets to understanding our past.
Yeah, this is a very interesting administrative and management situation. It's one of the things that drew me to this story. White Sands has a whole set of challenges facing it that no other park really does, on top of all the other issues that parks typically have to face...
I totally agree. Army plundered and popped Victorio Peak in the 90's after taking it from a family who found gold there in the 30's. The military has tunneled and built underground infrastructure all over the place so to imagine we lost some history already, isn't too much of a stretch.
I feel like far away, untouched places (that are relatively flat) will always be places of significant interest for military and conservationists. In my country you have a rare breed of wild horse and many rare plants in a sulfur ash desert which have to be managed whilst also allowing our army to undertake drills and testing
Exactly. What makes White Sands unique is the same thing that makes it great for military use and training.
It's a fascinating, if difficult, management situation for sure. White Sands is unique in that sense and its one of the main things that drew me to this story in the first place. I find these sorts of tensions so fascinating to explore.
I loved this video and the way you break things down - have you ever covered Channel Islands National Park in California? The US Navy uses San Clemente island for training and bombing. There’s been controversy around how dangerous and intense the training can be.
@@acuritis Thank you! I have not covered Channel Islands yet, but there are some great stories to tell from there. Thanks for the suggestion!
I live on the NW corner of Stallion missile range, so pretty far away from White Sands but at the north end of the military land. They provide a few jobs here and there and of course tourism twice a year for the Trinity site but overall I am not a fan of my state being used as a testing and dumping ground for the military-industrial complex.
Going to happen somewhere, everyone wants to be protected but no one cares to have their states land used
Bingham?
@@gabrielaguilar1391 Near enough.
I think I'm beginning to understand the numbers surrounding your state, low GDP, lower than average salaries, an extraordinarily high amount of federal funding going to the state..... 🤔
They been doing it long before you and will long after you. Just gotta live with it if you choose to live there.
This was the destination of my first road trip at 20, it honestly changed my life and started this desire to travel and see the world
So glad a National Park could give you that experience! Travel is a passion of mine as well and parks are a big part of that. Really great way to see the world and broaden my horizons. Thanks for sharing!
I have been to White Sands and there were numerous signs about what to do if you found an unexploded ordinance. Not to mention all the signs to shut down the park in the event of missile testing. It is an interesting juxtaposition of various government factions at war with each other, no pun intended!
That said, the whole "white sands" missile range is unique in the size of the test area and the ability to test various weapons that can't be tested anywhere else due to the safety concerns of it potentially veering off into a populated area.
A very unique park indeed!
A little off topic but still dealing with the Southwest... as a USAF Veteran, for the govt basically the entire state of Nevada is a military testing range...
Truth! I know because we see the vapor trails of the jets sometimes, high in the sky over the Central Valley, California.
I was an Archaeologist for some 5 years working for Human Systems Research on WSMR mid 1990s.
You should mention the introduction for hunting of species like the large aggressive African Oryx.
An 8 foot tall steel fence has been erected on the entire circumference of the park to keep them out.
In the north end of the range there were/are now herds of hundreds, twenty years ago anyway.
You could also mention the newly dated, ancient footprints.
Both great stories and both probably separate videos! Thanks for the suggestions!
@@NationalParkDiaries The footprints are amazing and have changed our understanding of when the American indigenous people arrived in the Americas. (ruclips.net/video/LS7ChlsZsGI/видео.html) IMHO if the military wasn't there to restrict access, these footprint probably would have been destroyed.
Just went to white sands earlier this year. As we were driving there, I asked my brother to call to make sure they weren’t doing any tests that day, just to be safe. My man straight up asks the ranger on the line, “Hey, are y’all going to be dropping a bomb today?” 😅
Hahaha, that's a unique park experience by itself!
While in the military I attended training at White Sands Missile Range in 1971, it is one strange place for sure. I was stationed at Fort Bliss Texas and traveled back and forth, didn't spend a lot of time there and was always impressed with the place.
An Air Force friend told me a friend went to a conservation conference where speaker after speaker was grieving over the loss of an endangered plant. When it was her turn, she took the podium and said, "Does anyone want some? Because I've got 14,000 acres of it, and it's really well protected." You make it sound like the military is carpet bombing the national park, but they're not even carpet bombing the missile range. Test ranges like White Sands have to be huge as a precaution against the occasional stray, which is usually from human error.
I've been there several times and never have been inconvenienced by missile testing. But yes, it does feel like a little oasis in what is a vast military zone. Overall my visits have been very enjoyable and worrying about sunscreen & keeping hydrated was far more pressing than bombs. I would advise anyone interested in seeing the dunes for themselves to make the trip. Fully worth it.
The bomb issue reminds me of my visit to Fort Darling (Drewry’s Bluff). The park’s boundaries end about fifty feet from Interstate 95, meaning you hear traffic from I-95 when you enter the park.
It’s probably the same thing, but it’s supersonic jets flying overhead instead of traffic.
No, its not the same thing. Traffic from a freeway/highway is an annoyance. Low altitude flight of a supersonic jet creates sonic booms that literally destroy the adobe structures in the park. Although they may only startle humans they are also damaging to the wildlife in the area.
I was stationed at Holloman AFB for 4 years. In that span there were probably 3-4 aircraft that actually crashed within the parks boundaries. The park is litteraly right off the flight line.
I read about so many incidents over the years, it's crazy. There seems to be less now, which is an improvement I guess lol!
@@NationalParkDiaries it's primarily a training base for UAVs (drone) pilots, as well as other aircraft. So it's very possible it may have a higher crash rate than a typical AFB. Terribly unfortunate location for the park.... Hopefully the disturbances keep trending downward as you mentioned. Great video for a great park. 👍
Never been there for a Missile launch, but I do recall traveling the highway between Alamogordo and Las Cruses and getting buzzed by F15s… that woke you up.
My dad worked at WSMR for many years. I went to several missile tests in the late 70s. Pretty exciting stuff!
When I was in the National Guard in the 1980s we were firing 105mm howitzers at Fort Indiantown Gap Pennsylvania. One shell not only missed the target, but landed outside not only the "Impack Area" where shells were to land, but outside the actual borders of Fort Indiantown Gap and landed in the neighboring State Game lands where the Appalachian trail went through on a long abandoned railroad line (the shell missed the trail and no one was hurt) .
That caused the whole fort to shut down till they found out what happened . No further training could take place and no movement of any equipment including the howitzers.
It turned out that the soldier assigned to set the "Charges" on the shell being fired made a mistake due to lack of training. At that time period 105mm rounds came with seven bags of gunpowder (Called "Charges"). Fort Indiantown Gap was a "Charge Two" training area, i.e. you never were to use more then two "Charges". The "Charges"were numbered 1,2,3,4,5,6 and 7. The actual "Fire mission" had called for a "Charge 2" loading. The soldier, instead of removing all of the Charges except for Charges 1 and 2, removed the last two "Charges" and put them in the "Fire Pit". The "Fire Pit" was a hole dug behind the Howitzers to put all "Charges" not used. When the unit moved out of the area the "Chief of Smoke" would gather all of the unused "Charges" and line them up and burn them. The "Charges" are only dangerous if confined in a small area like a howitzer tube. Out in the open the bag just burned very rapidly.
When the Fort was shut down, no one could move anything, including the bags in the powder pit. After couple of hours examination the problem was found, to many "Charges" in a powder pit.
I mention this here for while uncommon, mistakes happen and military shells land where they should not. Just be careful around any military base for mistake do occur.
Sidenote: My unit used M101A1 105mm Howitzers and those WWII veterans were restricted to "Charge 6". "Charge 7" was added in the 1960 to the then new M102 105mm Howitzer (The M102 was much lighter then the M101 A1, but stronger so it could handle "Charge 7" while the M101A1 could not).
In the 1990s the US Army adopted a new 105mm Howitzer, the M119. The M119 is almost as heavy as the M101A1, but even stronger for with the M119 105mm rounds now come with 8 "Charges". The more "Charges" used, the further the shell will go.
I’ve worked on WSMR in avian conservation. And it is truly one of the coolest ecosystems out there. (The mesquite hummock scrubland south of the park) but it is also very scary, like you’ll hear the wildest noises out there, or sirens letting you know they’re testing weapons. All in all though, it was fun to work on.
Sounds awesome!
White Sands NP should remain whole without a joint area so that it can be fully open to the public and able to protect the landscape and environment without threat of missiles landing on it. The US Department of Defense has approximately 26.4 million acres in the US and White Sands is not the only one in a remote area. If they really wanted to help, they should work with the NPS on creating biological and ecological reserves within the base to act as a buffer zone to the National Park while moving some of the missile testing to other locations. The US Navy has done something similar when they helped rehabilitate and preserve part of San Nicholas Island even though the island is used for weapons testing and practice.
No arguments from me there. I wasn't able to find any info about how the joint area is used today. Back when it was first implemented, there was way more weapons testing in the WSMR, but not sure how much of that has changed today and if there's still a high volume of missiles tested in the joint-use area. Either way, definitely with you on ecological restoration for that part of the park!
You're not wrong. I hate trading one wild space for another, but Utah has dugway and the north end of the salt flats that can do almost any of the same tests conducted down there. I wouldn't say shut down the range, and I love the west desert, but dugway is a lot less unique an ecosystem than the area around whitesands and offers much of the same remoteness and climate they test for down there.
Wouldn't be much of a loss to them to create a larger bufferzone around the park, restricting the areas to less energetic testing, restrict supersonic flights near by, and in general be better stewards of the area.
To me this almost comes across as the plot to the sitcom "The Odd Couple" where two completely different people with two completely different values worldviews have to share the same space. I'm actually scratching my head a bit as to how something like this could happen, where the only space available for the military to test its missiles is in the same location as a National Park? I mean, Area 51 does exist despite the long protests of the government, and that's largely empty space. To me it's just a reminder that even when trying to get something right, the federal government still finds a way to get it wrong.
I have been to White Sands once and enjoyed the visit. The next time I was in the area, I went to visit the park only discover it was closed because of government shut down. It is not unusual for the road between Almagordo and Las Cruces to be closed as a result of a missile test. Another issue, you did not mention, has nothing to do with the military, but the state game and fish department. From 1969 and 1977, the NM game and fish department introduced the African Oryx on the missile range. The NPS spent millions to remove the antelope from the park and build a fence to keep them out, not always successful. That story may make an interesting video.
I did read about the oryx, but they didn't make the final cut. Separate video for sure!
9:42 he said it! " The height of the cold war". I wish there was an actual defined date for T.H.O.T.C.W. it seems like it was the whole period between 52 and 92.
We had a drone go down there. After we recovered it by helicopter and brought it back to fix it, there was about a pound of white sand that came out of it. I gave it to my buddies wife who grip there as a kid. She was very happy and gave me a hug. I told her she needs to visit her parents “back home” more often.
I live out side of Las cruces. The biggest problem i have with the military is. I don't have asses too the other side of the tularosa basin. My small motorcycle can't travel 75mph. There is no side road on highway 70. That is a shame. The Mountain's and trails are amazing in the lincoln forest. Thanks for not giving a crap to the people that support you government!
I lived very close to White Sands for a few years and often had to drive througb the park and missile range. It was not uncommon for the highway to be closed because of bombs.
I visited White Sands once over a decade ago. I had a good time sliding down the sound dunes with a sled. I cant say much about the wildlife since i never saw a single animal there. The park was just white sand far as i could see with an occasional small cactus or tiny patch of desert grass sticking up every few hundred yards.
I had a tiny bit of anxiety the entire time at the park that a bomb might accidentally fall into the park. Obviously im fine, but i've never experienced anxiety about being blown up by a falling bomb when visit any other national park.
I've seen several people say they had this experience. Certainly unique for a National Park lol!
Well you are right not much but yes if you get their early you can see wild animals
Why were you nervous? They close the park and you would know about it the day before at the latest if you're from out of town.
Did you ask to interview the commanders of either White Sands Missile Range or Holoman Air Force Base? I would think they would be happy to talk to you.
I love White Sands!! There's lots of small reptiles and rodents that are genetically isolated in the dunes and have become white subspecies only found in White Sands. There are also African Oryxes in the area (brought in by the Game & Fish Dept in the 60's and 70's to encourage hunting) and now you might be able to see a few roaming the desert and grasslands. They also have cool stargazing and moonlit hikes led by rangers that I really highly recommend.
I also worked on the missile range itself last fall, helping with a study on migratory bird mortality - the entire area is a major corridor for birds in the spring and fall, and there was a big mortality event back in 2020 that we still don't really know the cause of. The other field techs and I had to get military clearance to come on base, and we had to get special training for 1) what to do if we found an unexploded ordinance, since they've been firing them off all over the desert since the 1940's, and 2) what to do if something goes wrong in the radioactive research facilities. Everyone on base that I came into contact with was very nice, and happy we were trying to get to the bottom of what happened with those birds, because the 2020 mortality event freaked a lot of the folks out who live and/or work on base. None of the techs I know of found a UXO, but a few of us saw lots of cool wildlife - coyotes, roadrunners, oryxes, and rabbits were all pretty common, but I came face-to-face with a baby rattlesnake while I was there, and that was a little more than I'd bargained for.
Really cool story, thanks for sharing! Did y'all ever find out what happened with the birds?
Your channel enrages me just about every time i watch it.
Not because you do a bad job, not mad at you. You do fantastic
Haha, unfortunately there's a lot of threats facing our parks which I try and highlight here on the channel. I try and keep things balanced between happy stories and sad stories, but there's a lot of sad stories out there unfortunately. Sorry to bring you such distress, but I appreciate you watching and learning about these issues!
Thanks for the awesome content and great videos!!
Thanks, as always, for watching!
@@NationalParkDiaries
Excellent place to take photos.
Great video. I live in the area. They also have emergency space shuttle runways that are carved into the north west portion of the park .
Runway 35 is a little over 5 miles long .
Can see it on Google Maps
I wondered what that was!
I was 15 when my father and I were heading to Albuquerque from El Paso. How we ended up on a road going through White Sands Missile Range, I don't remember. I do remember us being stopped. My camera (Pentax K-1000) with telephoto was taken from me and returned without the film. We were allowed to proceed after being instructed not to look left until we were off of the missile range. I don't know where they came from, but the vehicles seemed to appear from nowhere!
The best time to visit the Park, in my opinion, is at night during a full moon to see the wildlife emerge from under the "sand." You may see Mitch too. He's a camel brought in on weekends by a wonderful married couple. 🤗
Historically speaking, the National Parks Service and the National Forest Service were at odds with each other. NPS worked for conservation, and NFS worked for the timber industry (as in, cut the trees down for profit).
Fwiw, and I can speak from personal experience, but if you're hearing a loud "boom" at White Sands National Park these days, it's not a bomb, it's a pilot trainee doing a sonic-boom. At Holloman we get them regularly, because they do it over the base for some reason.
P.S. As an interesting note, the Park owes its current National Park status to Senator Heinrich's clever earmark addition to a Defense spending bill.
I have been there. It is pretty safe. I would recommend that people visit White Sands.
I am a retired U.S. Army EOD tech, and I can't stress enough that if you see fins or remains of a casing do not disturb it. A UXO (unexploded ordinance) is a deadly find, it could be just waiting for the slightest disturbance to detonate. Keep a watchful eye on children as they won't understand and think oh, I found something cool to dig up. Report any found ASAP and be responsible and warn other people off of the potential danger from a safe distance until it can be disposed of safely by trained personnel.
Whole region around Ft Bliss and White Sands has UXOs, mostly Anti Aircraft Artillery shells 37, 40, 75, 90mm are common finds.The 120mm must have had really good fuzes never seen one laying around intact. In 1956 in Central El Paso a 75mm shell was thrown into a fire at a kids birthday party, it had been found by the family out camping in the desert. Can't remember how many were killed but nobody was found at fault. Somewhat recently 10 or so years ago some guys from my town were loading hydra rocket bodies into a pickup as they had done for years but this time as the sand was knocked off one it exploded taking an eye and finger from one guy and opening up the belly of the other guy. Never could find any info on what exploded, maybe a bomblet is my guess. Funny part is they borrowed the truck and the EOD guys blew it up
To me White Sands (as a geeky European) is mostly known from being the site where the US tinkered with the V2 rockets they dragged over from Europe after WWII, and can be considered the area where the US space program began. I honestly didn't even know there was a national park there, but in hindsight it does make sense. Glad to hear that the US military is a bit more amicable about sharing their toys these days :)
I actually read about this in the park's administrative history! The NPS noticed this too - that there was a lot of publicity about "National Defense" and the military efforts there, but nobody ever mentioned the National Park. Yet another set of challenges it had to face!
@@NationalParkDiaries Definitely makes for another reason to visit the park, both for the space history and nature aspects :)
grossly exaggerating impact of the military on the park proper. Public access is far, far more destructive.
We hiked there once, and I was not part of the planning, so I had zero expectations. We encountered a road closure due to missile testing, and at the end of our hike were greeted with a sign indicating that going any further would mean entering an unexploded ordinance zone. Cool lizards, though.
Haha, White Sands is definitely one of those parks that requires a little pre-planning! It's certainly a unique experience to be turned away from a National Park for missile testing though lol.
I grew up in west Texas in the 70's and 80's so we made frequent trips to White Sands. Good times, but the sun can be brutal on the dunes. As.far as the military versus the national parks, the military wins. Always has and always will. Park service is just a gnat annoying the military.
I visited White Sands 30 some odd years ago. It is a truly AMAZING place. Thanks for highlighting it.
You bet, thanks for watching!
I appreciate the Monster's Inc reference. Great video!
Thank you and thank you!
A very nuanced and balanced narrative. Difficult to say where you stand. It is clear that a military that is fighting its own instigated wars all over the world needs a place to practice their ordnance. This bloated military should have been forced to set aside part of its allowance to preserve the natural beauty of the park and service its visitors with an enhanced experience of the natural beauty. How did the native people see this park? Can we learn something from them?
It's absolutely false that anyone can rest easy that "the ecosystem (that Yellowstone) is a part of will remain in tact." The Greater Yellowstone ecosystem is under constant threat and slowly degrades by the day. The Forest Service isn't stopping that; nor will it.
It is what it is. White Sands Missile Range is vast and protects native wildlife habitat for many miles around. Missile tests sometimes go wrong. The people at the park must leave during the big tests. The boys with their toys need a place like this to test. White Sands National Park happens to sit right in the middle of this weapons test range. They can both survive and thrive.
Love this channel, been binging a lot recently after my week stay in Rocky Mountain
Thank you and welcome to the community!
I remember the time someone on reddit found rocket parts in the dunes. It's not clear if they had accidentally left the park or not. It was like a sizable COPV
That darned military. To think, the park service willingly let Michael Bay do the same things to film Transformers.
Wow, you sure have some interesting info about White Sands. The odd thing is that you came out with this video the day my wife and I returned home from a month long road trip to Carlsbad Caverns and White Sands NPs. The two made our list of NPs visited to 37 & 38th. We were boondocking 14 miles to the east outside Oliver Lee Memorial State Park. While at the park we were in a 30-40mph wind that blew the sand for miles. While watching the long trail of sand along the mountain range from our campsite, there was a loud explosion and the ground shook, and the trailer rattled. I had read that this could happen while there. Thanks for sharing your knowledge of the parks. We love our NPs.
Thanks so much for watching! Glad you enjoyed the video and had a great time out there exploring our National Parks!
Maybe someday in the distant future the military area will close and the park’s mandate will be expanded to preserving the military history that once threatened it. After all there are plenty of national park units that preserve military history. Wouldn’t that be ironic.
Would make it a lot more interesting. Missile test range is a lot cooler than just white sand. I’d love to go there to watch missiles and jets flying.
That's an interesting idea, actually! I hadn't thought about that before, but would certainly make for an interesting park!
I would honestly go there to watch the missiles and jets lmao.
I live in cruces and wouldn’t mind having a convo with you about it. I’m an IT guy DA county.. but have many friends working there. Plus my dad worked for HELSTF for the “Star Wars” project … in case you didn’t know, the “L” in HELSTF stands for Light Saber 😉
I live only 60 miles from White Sands NP, this video has opened my eyes on how it has to balance itself with the NPS and the military very insightful. P.S. my grandpa worked for White Sands missile range as a mechanic.
It's one of the more unique NPS units in that regard - definitely a tricky balancing act. Thanks for watching!
There’s a JSDF base really close to Mt Fuji, and the day I hiked it they were doing live fire exercises which was kinda wild.
Man, that is pretty crazy! And pretty jarring I'd imagine...
One good thing about the military owning this land is that 90% of it is untouched. There is a wildlife refuge in the mountains just to the west of White Sands that contains New Mexicos last indigenous herd of desert bighorn sheep. The missile range is also home to a large herd of gemsbok (oryx) imported for hunting. They have spread South into the Organ mountains and North Franklin mountains.
Military grounds are actually better for wildlife than private development.
I love walking back where you see nothing but white sand dunes, sort-of looking like snow, till a cactus with red flowers comes into view or a lizard skitters away
Having lived in El Paso and visited White Sands frequently, I did notice the missile range and the air-field and thought it was weird, however, I didn't realize the Trinity Site is like right there. I've always thought it's far away from where I lived, and it's a pretty big shock when I looked on google maps after watching this amazing video.
I thought the same thing when researching this video and finding out how close it was. Crazy stuff indeed. Thanks for watching!
As of the finding of the footprints, White Sand has become one of the most important archeological sites in North America.
My parents took me there either during the 50's or the 60's. I have pictures of us on the dunes. I've never been back but have thought of it many times. Thanks so much for the story. I certain agree with what you said.
You're very welcome, thanks for watching!
Full of conjecture, assumptions - many wrong - and scary pictures/video of explosions and military presence to highlight a predetermined opinion about the relationship.
Kindergarten investigation skills at their worst.
I’ve lived there for years and the facts on the ground are very different.
For example: Did you actually ask where the park gets it’s potable water from? Did you? Of course not.
Going back to this video because I am doing research on more of the obscure (earlier) history of this park. You should really do a video about Tom Charles. Really interesting guy-- could tie it into how regular Americans can support and ultimately be large reasons why parks like this are created.
Could be a good episode for Park Profiles!
Now now now sometimes you have to detonate a bomb inside a national park.
There recently was a shell uncovered at Gettysburg; for the safety of all there they have to detonate it. Because while yes it is historic and had been there 160 years it is also deadly and possibly not movable…
explosives get more unstable as they age. People are still dying in France from the ungodly number of artillery shells fired that didn't explode.
Talking about tension between conservation and development, you should look into Indiana Dunes National Park. People having been attempting to protect that area for a long time with limited success due to the steel industry.
That's a good one to cover, thanks for the suggestion!
@@NationalParkDiaries it’s definitely another one of those debatable places for Park status. Was a National Lakeshore, but a State Park was created before that (if I recall) to preserve the area while still lobbying for Park status.
Ultimately it got Lakeshore status, but recently received National Park status. Debatable whether it deserves that status, but I want to imagine what it would be like if they got conservation in place before industry took over. Also, the State Park kind of seems somewhat integral to the park as a whole. I want places like this to not be overlooked just because development happened. Development shouldn’t detract from the efforts made to preserve, and that goes for any conservation area.
It's a great story, you're absolutely right. And I couldn't agree more that it shouldn't be forgotten about just because of the development surrounding it. Thanks for your comment, and I'll be putting this on my list of potential videos!
@@NationalParkDiaries awesome man! Thanks for the reply!
What is the biggest problem for a park? It is people, especially neighbors. Running cattle, planting crops, mining or harvesting lumber is hard on the environment. You know what is great about having WSMR as a neighbor? There virtually no people in the immediate area. WSMR is huge. It encompasses almost 3,200 sq mi (8,300 km2). They run a few tests a month. The missiles and bombs do MUCH less damage to the ecology then people, especially the NFS. The threat of missiles and the restrictions of the military make the area nearly pristine. Given a choice between having farmer or ranchers as neighbors or a missile range, the missile range is much before the the environment.
I was traveling to the white sands park with a girlfriend at the time back when tom tom gps screens were a thing. They werent the best at navigating and the damn thing guided us the gates of the white sands missle test site gate 😂😂😂. When we saw tank crossing signs, towers and razor wire fences we knew were in the wrong place. Lol.
Hahaha, that's quite the memory to have! It could only happen at White Sands 🤣
All they ever have to say is "national security" and anything that you say after becomes irrelevant.
I've been to White sands but not during an active test. I have however been on top of a mountain in a supersonic flight corridor when a fighter went over at well over the speed of sound. I know his altitude was approximately 1,000 ft above the peak that I was on because of the sound delay between when he passed and when we heard the bang. And oh what a bang. It was so intense it literally not dust up off the rocks that we were standing on. The whole mountain turned cloudy with dust that was knocked off the rocks by that shockwave. There's probably a fair number of people reading this who actually know this particular peak. It's called the Tooth of Time. It's made of almost solid granite mostly large boulders. It's hard to even imagine what it would have looked like if we had been standing on a gypsum dune and the same shock wave hit. I could imagine they're being health consequences from that much gypsum being thrown in the air and having to breathe somehow...
In a way, WSNP and Meritt Island National Wildlife Refuge have much in common: active government/military facilities immediately adjacent (Cape Canaveral Space Force Station/Kennedy Space Center are immediately south of MINWR) and increasing development is putting more pressure on the wilderness areas. MINWR is closed many times a year for space activities, especially for NASA launches as well. A huge difference, however, is that KSC is dedicated to preserving wilderness not only in MINWR but also within its own borders: of the KSC 144,000 acres of space within its confines, only 7,500 acres are used. New development requires extensive environmental assessments, and pollution is limited. For example, any water used for sound suppression during a rocket launch is captured and treated prior to being released. Perhaps WSNP should more closely adopt that model so both constituencies are served.
That would be another good story to tell on the channel, thanks for the great info!
We lived in Alamogordo when dad was working there and we would slide down giant dunes on cardboard
Sad that the park authority is usurped by a military junta. What if anything can be done to end this or pressure for change? We need to support our military, but we also need to accommodate the park mission in a unique area. How about some white sands merch "Stop bombing our park" Thanks for making this video!
I call it "America's War on Small Lizards".
We do have to have a War on something at all times, after all 😂
Yay my backyard!
🙌
been there twice and one time i heard a big explosion and saw something like a missile coming down .
Kaboom??!
Yes Rico,
Kaboom
Don’t forget to mention the cancer from being downwind from a bomb range
White Sands - Now with fewer missiles!
I'm just picturing one of the WPA posters with this slogan now 😂
1:29
I so agree with you.
Knowledge is power.
🙌🙌🙌
I visited White Sands National Park once. From 35,000 feet. It was notable from my viewpoint that it was such a large area of white that my gaze was drawn to it out of my plane window. The size was amazing! I'd love to visit one day on the ground as it is one of the few areas in the lower 48 states my wife and I have not visited. As far as opinions about the military uses I can definitely see both sides in this particular issue. We have a lifetime pass to our national parks and prefer to visit them when traveling over large metropolitan cities with the traffic, (usually heat) business, and tenseness that doesn't happen at the same level as national or state parks. We need to preserve our parks and expand the lands we protect to a much greater area than we do presently. One of the few things our federal government is required by the constitution to obey is "provide for the common defense" as opposed to "promote" the general welfare; not the other way around. Therefore, we have to test our ever evolving technology of defense against our enemies to allow us the continued freedom to visit our national parks! Obviously, we should test in an environmentally responsible way that leaves a clean landscape whether it's the New Mexico desert or even the Pacific atoll of Kawjalein which has been the target of extensive testing of our ICBMs. As far as I know Kwajalein is still environmentally clean. Part of the military's responsibility at White Sands should be to thoroughly clean above, on, and below ground all remnants of testing including shrapnel, radiation, and land mines. The military can afford it! Let's coexist!
Thank you President Trump for officially designating White Sands National Monument as a National Park 🇺🇸
Camped quite near there for two weeks, and during that time went to the Trinity site (opened twice annually). Wind storms are common and blinding and the poverty is hard. The people are amazing and very kind,, however. I was an Air Force brat, but the low-flying aircraft even irritated me.
Personally, I would like to see White Sands Missile Range completely closed down and then see the national park expanded. I would like to see habitat restoration take place on the missile range. I might call my congressman and call the White House and inquire about this.
Another similar story lies with Cabeza Prieta National Wildlife Refuge which is adjacent to the Barry M. Goldwater Air Force Range in Pima County, Arizona. I would like to see that base shut down to expand Cabeza Prieta National Wildlife Refuge or perhaps establish a new national wildlife refuge. The federally endangered Sonoran pronghorn (Antilocapra americana sonoriensis) is present on the Barry Goldwater Air Force Range.
I'm all for National Park expansion! Unfortunately, I don't see the WSMR going anywhere anytime soon 😩
@@NationalParkDiaries that is unfortunate but we do have to at least plant that seed and get the ball rolling.
@@indigotaylor-noguera7119 Yep, totally agree!
@@NationalParkDiaries I'll let you know when I finally follow through with such an inquiry.
“That same year still” lol
Arizona New Mexico Texas pretty much every state covered with trash from military
I live on the east coast (by birth, not choice), and appreciate the sacrifices that those around White Sands make for our national security. Thank you.
Thanks!
Thanks so much for your support! I truly appreciate it!!
Forgot to mention the unexploded ordnance that has been found and that is warned around the surrounding mountains and also a run away missile that found it way flying 80 miles south into a Mexican border city..and the exploding..
the repeated cuts to massive drum and explosive sequences would be more tolerable had you properly edited their volume in a way that doesn't blast out your viewers speakers .
So if i secretly don't like someone should i recommend they vacation there. Or should i keep recommending Mogadishu.
Great closing line 🤣
🤣🤣🤣
We went straight from there to edwards Air Force base
How does someone get hit by a low flying plane WTF?! That needs a story
... When the US Government went to war with an atomic bomb on their national park!
Not far off sadly...
I actually miss the sound of sonic booms
We Americans need to make decisions on what is priority our national security or total envirometal situation has priority. Seems people think nothing of national security and believe its free
Reminds me of Dartmoor somewhat
Very cool place. I love all the military history my state has! Also home to American spaceflight. Without this range that has played a huge role in human history I seriously doubt people would even care about it. They would obviously care about the actual white sand dunes but that only makes up like 1 percent of the actual range. The rest is honestly a wasteland and I feel like people who are against using this land for testing aren't actually arguing their point because they care about the land. They are just arguing about testing of deadly weapons in general. I don't think they realize what kind of world we live in and that it wasn't started by America and that weapons testing has to be done. I would love to live a life where nobody fights, but if you live in the real world you know that is very childish. America and its allies offer the best chance at world peace, which will never happen but it would be much worse without them. I think it has to be done somewhere and I'm glad it is here.
I think you are confounding the park with the missile range. They are over 50 miles apart.
Not true. White Sands Missile Range surrounds White Sands National Park on 3 sides. You can visualize it better here: maps.usgs.gov/padusdataexplorer/#/common-views
@@NationalParkDiaries I believe you’re misinterpreting the map. The White Sands military base is located a few miles west of Las Cruces New Mexico. Depending on what part you measure from, 50 to 60 miles to the north east is the White Sands monument, a few miles west of Alamogordo New Mexico on Highway 70. if you look in the protected view, you will see that the two places are very far from each other. I found the common View not to be useful because it obliterates most of the reference points.
Can you cover New River gorge?
Funnily enough, I'm heading there this weekend to do a story 👀
@@NationalParkDiaries No way!
I just got back from there. Such a deep history with industrialization. Yet Such a beautiful place. Got to check out Turkey Spur Look out!
@@luisouida1606 Will do, thanks for the recommendation!
This area probably shouldn't be part of the NPS but maybe it's good it is.
The tug and pull between the departments could force compromise, which could be a good thing. I care more about long-term ecological damage than public access to a NPS location.
Our lives our short, while nature survive after it all? Bombs and hiking boots are both a disruption.
It's the one National Park where you should feel free to collect certain things- last time I was there hiked a good way in, with some large bags. Filled the bags with bomb fragments and shrapnel, hiked them back out and dropped them off at the visitor center so that they could be reunited with their rightful owner.
I call BS on that. You didn't get a bunch of shrapnel in the park. Where did you take them to, the Park Visitor Center? It is run by the NPS not the Army.
You're full of lies. You do not live here and I do, not many wanted a NPS run White Sands, prices went through the roof from $5 to $25 per car for a 2 mile drive and $15 just to walk in. The National Monument designation was enough. The old employees lost their jobs btw. We are proud of having the only National Park that gets closed for missile tests.
Wow, you are really worked up, aren't you? Yes, I gathered up pieces of exploded ordinance while hiking toward Lake Lucerne, yes, I brought said pieces back to the visitor center, asked if bringing this stuff to them, The National Park Service, was appropriate, and was assured it was, and thanked for my effort. This really happened. In any case try being nice if you wish to question somebody on the internet, instead of screeching away and confirming yourself as a jerky little ass.