The Science of Drying and Curing - Allison Justice, PhD
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- Опубликовано: 14 июн 2022
- Tags: drying, curing, water activity, humidity, terpenes, cultivation, cannabis
Allison Justice, PhD presents "The Science of Drying and Curing" at CannMed 2022.
Drying and curing is an extremely important step to smokable flower production. In this session, the science of drying and curing will be discussed. Traditional methods and current research covering everything from gas exchange to water activity will be discussed. 
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I’ve been growing in Humboldt County most my life. I’ve also been learning a lot about the science behind these processes which we have been participating in. Dr. Justice is one I’ve been following since legalization, and she does not disappoint. Folks like me really appreciate this science that’s being done, it’s helping me understand my own craft so much more. Thank you!
great talk, thank for you sharing the data
this was awesome!
She brought up some great things to think about. Thank you for sharing 💚🌱💨
This is an amazing presentation-thank you for sharing! Fascinating research around terpene preservation 👏
The chart at 15:34 contains data (temp and RH) that can be used in Tetens’ equation to calculate the VPD data shown on that chart, as well. However, the data shown in the table at 15:44 can not be reproduced with Tetens’ equation. Its close but not within any reasonable rounding error. How were the VPD values in this chart calculated? Thanks
amazing talk! love it
Really interesting!
Amazing talk! It’s refreshing to see such a great attitude toward cannabis research. It’s a great time to explore the science of cannabis and cannabinoids.
Veteran growers agree a 6 month cure is optimal. I agree. I have in fact smoked flower that was cured and stored properly that was over a year old. Great smoke!
I think that depends. It’s gets a heavier feeling for sure, but not everyone likes that as optimal. The UN formula for the age of cannabis gives the figure THC content in cannabis would decrease at a rate of 3-5 percent per month when kept at room temperature. More recently, estimates have confirmed a 12 percent degradation in THC over the first 100 days of storage, equivalent to a rate of 3-4 percent each month. Decarboxylation will happen to all cannabis.
@@yeoldegunporn yeah but thc degradation lead to cbn, wich make the smoke better, and it's not the same cbn who is the precursor, it's another cbn, feel and smoke different
@@yeoldegunporn
I recently smoked some herb that I had in my fridge for 1 year
I had other dated in my fridge for 2 years
Neither one of them got me higher than they used to
But both of them tasted absolutely smooth!!!
I couldn't even tell I had smoke in my lungs!
Agreed!
I just dried my herb for 14 days and a little plastic dry room that I built
Then I trimmed it and put it in jars leaving the stem for a little bit extra moisture for a little bit more dry time to coincide with the curing process
In about a week I'll cut them off the stems and let them sit by themselves
When I see needed, I will add some Boveda packs to sustain humidity and store the jars in a cool place
I'm going to start smoking this after 3 months,
But I have enough to last throughout the year so I can't wait for the next year to (continue) smoke it
The Peace of Christ be with you all! And thank God for this seed bearing herb He gave us
@@yeoldegunpornThat's cannabinoid conversation happening there. Which in my pov doesn't translate to a weaker smoke. In fact, I believe the opposite happens!
Optimal curing time depends a lot on the strain and terpenes profile, as shown here all terps do not react the same to drying, it is the same for curing, some fruity terps fade in a month, some other need a month to reveal. Terps volatility might be linked to chemistry. thanks for the video !
Its very much chemistry. I would generalize it to be two factors:
first how volatile is the molecule at baseline (factoring in that over time it has a chance to react and change into another terpene/molecule, which in itself is another process that depends on environmental conditions as well as the specific reaction occuring)
Second how the matrix in which the molecule is embedded is affecting and changing that volatility. I guess that the exposed trichomes will evaporate kinda quick compared to anything hidden deeper in the plant material behind a lot of cellwall structure and stuff
What the 'bubble/head' of the trichome is made of and what factors/nutrients aid in reinforcing its structure should be investigated as well. Having the best possible 'container' for your thc or terpenes should be a priority for any grower.
I thinkI remember Bruce Bugbee saying that trichomes were largely silicate structures and advised to supply bioavailable Si, but I did not look into the sources (if there were any)
For silica - ad Vermiculite
@growland
Great, simple, factual, comment. Totally agree
Actually in my opinion a properly dried and cured product is not bright green...off green is fine...chlorophyll need to be degraded, to improve flavor and smokability...
I’m worried watching after reading comments.. well said.
I'm not a scientist, all I can say is that after 25 years of smoking the best tasting flower I've smoked was an outdoor harvested in December after snowfall (49N latitude) with completely purple buds/leaves. Even the trim tasted great. Btw, that plant was fertilized with salt based nutrients, no "organics". On the other hand I've also smoked amazing strains with light green almost fresh looking buds so it's a mystery to me. I don't think chlorophyll has anything to do with it. Maybe it's about glucose or stored micro/macro nutrients.
@@sixmillionsilencedaccounts3517 I can taste chlorophyll...bud dried "too" quickly has a flavor I find objectionable...which detracts from "flavor" I enjoy ..slow dry in a dark cool place over time enhances those flavors, in my experience.
@@sixmillionsilencedaccounts3517 I agree 100% i am indoor grower on the east coast and i grow during summer and winter and i must say my winter crops yield less due to cold weather but the terp profile is way better than my harvest in the summer .
@@BrixThePlanter We did disclose everything that was done under this funding. They were investing in the science to understand this process . I'd love to do some research with the packs but we stopped at just looking at what is going on in general. It is hard to judge a product until you understand baseline! It is impossible to not have a sponsor/funding for a project as research can be expensive and the government doesn't want to fund cannabis research.. It'd be AMAZING if it were only crowd funded work. Please join the CRC (Cannabis Research Coalition) and help this happen!
Is there any update on any of these follow up testing mentioned? I can't find anything on her website.
Yo nice seeing you here homie
@@rudolf895 i try to soak up as much knowledge as i can
It seems the vacuum pressure needs to be controlled to avoid losses
to sum up, different strains/terp combinations needs different curing time dont think we should expect a recipie that works for everything
Does Dr. Justice realize she has just described a machine that extracts, drys, cures, and makes hashish all in one? I can see the infomercial now. What’ll she call it?😊
tnxs for info i just have to give a 👍 ....some mother plants i've flowered 4 times in one year some inside, some mixed with half sun half leds,some only in sun, and some in sun in halfshade ....and tryd drying and curing them different and and for exmpl Blueberrina was always blueberry but some was sweet some was gasy and one was jackpot and smell was at least 100% stronger and better then others .....but all was good and interesting to smoke 😅
I love the research that you are doing there is really a lot more research to do, that's what is so fascinating about the plant I love you and what you are doing keep up the good work
Ok so the “loss of terpenes” gets me thinking how are they measuring, is it a totaling or are they looking at individual terpenes, because some terpenes are changing composition throughout the drying/curing process into new molecules, or is it a total terpene accumulation. Also fails to recognize other molecules such as esters, thiols, flavonoids, organic alcohols etc
17:45 best to pay more attention watching a video before criticizing
@@alphanovaomega3574 confirmation bias ^^
Anyone able to identify the stays on the stick for 30 days guy? I'm interested in more of what he has to say on the topic. As much as the corporate view is fascinating, I'd prefer the science on a domestic scale.
A lot of people say that. But I’m not sure they all say 30 days. I’ve heard 16 days mostly. Mine dry out in a week though.
I'm not sure where you are getting we are corporate. We are a group of 6 and self funded because I won't not research this plant. Also, how sexist.
@@jasonseaward8506
When I used to trim in california, south of Santa Cruz slightly(in Soquel) - it would hang in the attic for months till we finish trimming
man! it was soooo nice!
@AnthonyBolognese710
I live in New Mexico so it's hard to dry weed for more than two or three days
I just built a very cheap dry room with $12 thick black plastic, a $9.00/ 400 watt heater,
A $16 equate humidifier
And a $69 climate regulator from the local Grow store
I was able to dry for 14 days!!!🎉😊
When I trimmed them I left them on the stems and put them in tall jars so I could have a little bit more dry time/ coinciding with curing
In about a week I'll cut them off the stems
In the days to follow, when the time is right, I will put Boveda packs inside the jars and keep them in a cool place
A month before this harvest, I harvested about 20 single Cola plants.
I had not built the dry room and they dried in 3 days
Needless to say, the Terps are nowhere like the ones that I hung for 14 days
The smell is AMAZING!!!!
The Peace of Christ be with you all! And thank God for this seed-bearing herb that He gave us!
What do you think of The Grove Bags?
Back when I was a young man this sort of expertise sent many of us to prison.
Lol been there done that
I thought leaf surface temperature was part of the equation for vapor pressure deficit.. I can understand needing a way to dial-in curing. But I think there has to be a new measurement made. maybe I’m wrong. 🤷♂️
No the a leaf vpd but that’s depending on light intensity when curing you don’t use lights.
If you dry to the correct moisture percentage burping is not necessary during the cure... burping is just to prevent mold for the people that jar to soon.
Yes! I am experiencing that right now after my 14-day dry.
I'm pulling them down right now and the Terps are amazing
11 southern New Mexico and I had to build a dry room and this is the first time I've ever dried weed for more than 3 days🎉
If you aren't needing to burp after only 14 days that means it is done curing because you dried it too quickly. Curing that fast is how you get the shitty weed they sell in dispensaries.
@@moongloomable
Yes they Absolutely needed to be burped ( I never said I wasn't burping them).
I only said that I dried them for 14 days
I burped them aftr for 3 weeks
They still are not ready, but they currently are not being burped anymore but once a week.
I was just giving my progress report at that time last month when I posted my comment
Edit: I can't wait until March because I'm not going to smoke them until after 3 months of curing.
... I totally agree about your comment regarding dispensaries!!
@@cjnav7832 sorry I misunderstood. that process sounds perfect and exactly what I do. You have more self control then me haha. Nice to wait for sure. Enjoy!
@@moongloomable
Right on
And - "Self control". Haha. I have stuck my hand in the cookie jar a couple times.
Shhh :))
I’m a scientist in botany, I earned my prestigious degree in my basement over a 50 year period 😂😂so I’ve concluded , when you freeze dry flower it makes the buds very fragile because of the trichome detachment that occurs from the extreme cold, terpenes are affected by temperature in both directions but the cold really makes trichome detachment more unpredictable so I’ve always just been as careful as possible when using cool temps
Cannatrol, set it and forget about it & in 8 days you have perfectly dried & cured flower!
Don’t be dumb. Proper cure takes time and you can’t rush time.
That thing is garbage. Big waste of money. 💯👍
Who's asking the question at 42mins?.
Love how the universities are now finding out what us old heads have known for decades.
That nitrogen freezing before freeze drying results in less terpene loss than freeze drying alone?
You mean you know more than the people studying this stuff?
i find this funny they talking curing as if they only just figured it out lol i learnt most of this stuff in the early 90's when hydro really took off over here
The. More we learn the better we get if we pay attention.
@@ssjustice966 yeah i'm just saying they just keep making the same vids overe and over apart from pots and some led lights there is not a lot of new in the world of weed growing
I know 45 minutes later its " snap the stick trim the bud put it in a jar ,burp it..." no kidding...
How many years you smoke ang grow Hemp miss?
id give this southern bell a blue ribbion good stuff girl
So aim for a vpd of 0.8 to 1.0, so basically as if it’s in veg.
Once the plant is dead, VPD is irrelevant. It's dead ffs. 60% RH, 60 degrees F if you can. The RH is most important so maintain that over temp. Dry until larger branches snap instead of bend. Minimum 10 days. 2-3 weeks preferable. Anything less and you'll end up with harsh smoke that smells like straw. If your crop is drying in a few days, then you would be better off sticking with store bought pre-rolls.
@@chris_schenkel jfc you really don’t get it. Vpd has nothing to do with whether the plant is alive or not. VPD gives you an index for the rate at which water will transpire. You’re aware water transpires regardless of whether something is living or dead right? Tell me something genius - if you can’t get to 60F are you then screwed…or or…maybe you can alter your RH so you get the same vpd as you would with 60 and 60.
I love how you say FFS when you can’t even understand how humidity works. It’s not just RH genius…temp is also involved. Vpd gives you the ability to use both temp and humidity to drive your decisions.
And expect a long life living expectancy
produce...key word.... fresh and dry
Like she said she is sure of the target, not sure of manipulations.
Eu só gostaria de saber e fazer saber que a comida que tenho é saudável mas não obtenho nada
Almost a year Doc. Any more news?
I allow my grow to dry before cutting them down.
After cutting down, I store them in large paper brown lawn bags I found at my Target and Home Depot.
It keeps the plant clean from dust, free from movement, allows for minimal airflow and darkness.
Lawn bags also control the odors during storage.
Taking away the airflow is like putting up a neon sign saying "Welcome Mold". Drying your plant while it's still growing is basically killing it with ridiculous amounts of stress on the plant. I'm guessing your weed is as harsh as it can get. The land of stupid never disappoints.
@chris_schenkel
Well in all fairness, he did articulate after they are dry
Where does mold come from when something's dry?
ps: Mine are in paper bags, on stems right now and they are dry. no mold. amazing terps
I did find that he leaves them on the plant until they're completely dry, to be interesting
I had a couple that I did not water for about 7 days before I cut them down - but they were not completely dry
If he's done this before and it works - maybe he doesn't reside in a "land" called "stupid";
but in a Land called: "Tried"
So I was wondering if you can put it in a freezer bag put it in the deep freezer and just use it as u need it just like anything else like frozen veggies for instance
Those hydration packs affect the flavor but I think it's the packaging tho tastes like brown paper bag to me 💯
Interesting. I have never experienced that all these years.
I'll have to look for that taste
A primeira vez que se experimenta isso é o batizado...... quando o cérebro se encontra em construção torna-se um modo de vida como um sono espiritual mas, tem de estar em equilíbrio
Whatever tf millions of people have been 23:42 doing for years now seems to work. Sooo much amazing weed around the world and it just keeps getting better it every way idk what your point is here if it’s not broke don’t fix it your nuts
Look at how we cure tobacco
Educated Guessing 💯👍🏿🧐
Sucks that she felt reserved to speak about boveda since they are sponsoring her research…it would have been very interesting to hear her true opinion on the matter.
hey, at least she is disclosing that they are a sponsor. Often saying not too much is the smarter choice, so its no advertising but also no antagonizing the guy with the money.
Though I also would like some more data on boveda, I'll rather have that data from someone who isnt paid by them
So so true, you have to take care, when listening to sponsored speeches.
We never actually did trials with the packs. They were investing in the science to understand this process so nothing not to share.
@@MarvMetal I'd love to do some research with the packs but we stopped at just looking at what is going on in general. It is hard to judge a product until you understand baseline.
Don't waste your money. They don't work. I've bought so many of those damn things. So many. All different percentages, different sizes. All waste of money. The only thing I know that actually works are cigar beads. I personally don't use anything. I dry until they're ready for curing. Then jar them up and refrigerate, burping as needed. I have cultivars from over a year ago and they still smell just as good. Some actually smelled better than the first few months.
If anyone is reading this please respond
It keeps mold away burping
I am rookie, yet disagree with you on several examples you gave, specifically, the "snapping of the stem" to determine it's "dryness", where I feel that if you can snap the stem, you are too dry. Having even a small amount of moisture left in the stem, "snapping isn't as "easy", still some moisture inside", leaving the bud 2/3rd's dry, with 1/3 moisture, getting rid of that remaining moisture during the burping process, still allowing some moisture at the "core" of the bud. Ex. taking a bud for a sample and giving a gentle squeeze, having a dry squeeze almost all the way through, and then hitting a "soft" or moist area is perfect. Also you commented wanting you get the water out as quickly as possible. I must disagree with this as well, I feel that giving the cann plenty of space in a dark room, w/ proper temp and humidity, giving the grow a 6 to 8 day dry, giving popcorn buds about 3 -4 days before curing process, allows for all sugars to deposit further and deeper into the bud. I did not seem to lose too many Trichomes, as I inspected some of the buds, and they remain full of beautiful milky crystals. I know I lost a lot during my buds wash, and I may have been a little rough with maybe 3 or 4 of the branches during that process, I am rookie and this is my very first time growing. I just harvested yesterday, did an immediate bud wash, let them dry outside for a few hours under a shaded tent, then brought them inside to a temp control. dark room. I'm no scientist, just a rookie, but, still disagree with some of what you commented on.
You nailed yourself to the cross at "I am rookie" and then went on to challenge hard scientific data. Opinions are like assholes "rookie". :-)
Yeah - but which stem????
I cut the fan leaves off, but leave the stems
Of course, the stems snap quicker, in time, at the top of the cola.
What is I travel towards the base of the plant, some of the stems don't quite snap
This is very, very, helpful for me to gauge when I want to stop drying the plant
Usually, when the fan leave stems at the base of the plant ALMOST snap - I take them down and trim them and leave them on the stem and put them in jars and leave the jars open in paper bags.
After a week I'll cut them off the stems.
As a little more time passes, that's when I put in the Boveda packs.
ps: it took me 14 days before the stems at the base of the plant we're almost ready to snap
Nothing like a longer/ slower dry;
even in Southern New Mexico (Las Cruces) 🎉
--------------------
EDIT: I don't even have to squeeze my buds or feel them - for me it's all about the fan leaves stems at the base of the plant and what they are telling me
So cool how the leaves talk to you EVEN when they're Dead
The Peace of Christ be with you all! And thank God for the seed-bearing herb that He gave us!
I wanna know what 3 letter agency developed this and released it? That’s the real question.
Come on down to SC buddy. I'll show you my place. This is a family funded business that struggles just like everyone else.
Also, you were kinda right... CRC- cannabis research association
People like u are cringe go search the conspiracy dumbass xD
Made shiva laugh🎉❤
They only started growing indoors because it was highly illegal to do so outdoors💯%fact nobody ever said that OUTDOOR is not as good as indoor.
Light dep ALL THE WAY.
My indoor is way better than my outdoor. Same clones, no comparison
@@mikegreer9041 Smaller plants with higher THC content imo (usually).
@@mikegreer9041 that's good to know, my Tangie Kush clones are about 6 weeks old now, and I'm hoping for a really good bounty, and quality ! Just harvested the mother plant, and the aroma is overwhelming my entire house !
IV got 4 inside and 30 out. All in cocca. The on s out side are as good as inside. IV had a good run with the weather so that's helped. Everything is praying big time.
SHES A VERY SHARP PHD !
would be nice to hear from someone with decades of experience. it's weird all these inexperience people talking about stuff some of us have been studying our whole lives.
Right... I have more experience in the last decade. 😅
Corporate Cannabis for you.
I wish that it was legal in this state it has helped me tremendously with pain and anxiety
this was pretty basic. and missed a lot of traditional curing techniques. you can slow cure a large amount of plants at the end of flower still on plant for a year and have the best results. no jar bag needed and it can keep a perfect moisture without molding for over a year.
I thought you were told to stop commenting right after you fire up a big fatty. Cause that's pure bullshit man!
You just lost me in the first minute....the ." grow hemp not cannabis " part.
Boveda destroys all my cannabis taste and smell. Never again
Try grove bags
It doesnt destroy your smell if u smell ur weed u basicaly loose terpens while smelling that is why its not smelling. Their is a monolayer of water around the butts so they dont oxadise in normal temperature hence the smell
@@Chrischos you don’t have to educate me. That shit destroys the smell of cannabis. It ads a mono layer of distilled water over the terps to suppress it until u smoke it. That’s bullshit. I want to smell my shit. I pass keep that bs. I never need that trash. My cannabis cures and jars at 62% perfectly I don’t need none of that bs.
To my knowledge you do not loose trichomes , trichomes do not shake off.
Hash is made from tricomes
Trichomes
Whaaaaaat? Kief? MGT? Hash?
@@Look-to-NatureHomestead
Agreed
Perhaps, he means they don't ALL shake off???
Shhhh just keep letting Mitchel's buddy sell him Oregano
some information is a little strange how she talks about it. in 2016 I as well as most people in the industry knew exact what happens with curing. and no one in California talks like "da da da" like she mocked us.
fully saturate the dry room with terps before drying so less can come from the flower.
That's my mum
A PhD cost time and money. It doesn't require knowledge. Case in point....
You review fireworks??
@@allisonjustice3577 I do?
Amen, she is an idiot.
A good guide for kindergarten.
Glad I decided to read comments, thanks for saving me from a long drawn out lack of knowledge.
Still searching for proper sources on topic
✌️
I don't want pretty , I want to get hi. Fill it light it shut up and close the door
This sounds like reading a book or article with not really much if any personal experience.
As much information as might be here, the speaking aspect really takes away from the lesson. I got lost in a bunch of page turns (slide changes with long pauses in speaking mid thought) alot of unknowns that lead thoughts into dead ends. Why present information if the information isn't known yet?
A lot is two words.
You need to understand the purpose of this video. She is presenting why she needs more money for research. That’s why we are left with so many questions.
Did she really forget the word variance,? "Oh gosh what's this called " 😂
What do you expect from someone that can not pronounce "proliferate"?
@@rotagbhd Neither my expectations nor my judgement is based on mispronounciations.
Competence cares about content, not so much about form. If at all.
😂😂😂😂😂😅😅😅😅😂😂😊😊
we do know, smoking is bad. DRY HERB VAPE. cheers
Lol. My dry herb vape ruined smoking for me. I can’t deal with the smoke flavor.
and half the lps are bk and none are cash positive lol
Greetings from Thailand
The smell of skunk and sour or acride smell and taste, is not a terp not even close.
Sulfur compounds
I knew the moment she said "You can break of limbs, or even harvest just the buds, and dry them individually" that this presentation was... Inaccurate. To put it nicely.
To qoute a particular "rapper" who sings about growing but doesnt actually grow, even he still knows to...
"Do the whole plant hang, dont f*ck the dry up." 😂
You love your bro science don't ya.
I also see how passionate you are and pretty much falling in love with you every time I listen to you speak
Sagath-phon
Wtf....
Cominsense and logic! They don't have it
I think you mean “common sense” 😂
@@iGoldenWax I did that for the pot heads! Gotcha!
@@iGoldenWax people are sooO gullibil!
Are you sure ?
BASICALLY 😂 She is NOT SURE of really anything 👍
Burn
Well, that’s BASICALLY how science works. It starts somewhere then you add to it with repeated studies that both solidify the understanding of a process and create other questions to explore. 👍🏽
Who really is when it comes to the scientific nature of drying and curing flowers?
Educated Guessing 💯👍🏿🧐.
10000 percent couldn't have put it better!
It shouldn't have to be that big an issue as to how to preserve budd. WHY I HEAR YOU SAY. Because weed shouldn't be on the shelf long enuff to have to be preserved .
Was she high 🤔 I'm sure she was!
Q and A in one...thank you.
It was really hard for me to focus after i realized she was high😂
Definitely not high.
Sure did say alot without really saying anything.
This is pathetic... She got the diagram on her slides wrong for photosynthesis AND sad it the wrong way round. How on earth is this a PhD?
I'd looooooove to have a podcast with you to talk about science. I double dare you to take me on. What a pathetic comment.
@@allisonjustice3577what's pathetic Allison is you coming back 3 months later to comment. A true professional wouldn't even bother to validate themselves on RUclips. Ps. I watched your interview with mr grow it and recieved back lash for comments i made. Johnsmith was their handle and he reported all the comments speaking against what you were saying. Thats you isn't it?????😂 fucking poser in the industry. Keep growing dog treat cbd bunk, thats where you belong
You can tell she had never really grown or smoked.
Do your research. You’re wrong bro
She harvests early because she enjoys clear trichromes
I rather dry the OG way than following any "science", enough of this industry BS.
That is a very "eliminate me because I don't do science" kinda attitude.
This was pointless. 60 degrees 60 rh 10 days. For perfection
Does this chick know any male colleagues I can listen to ?
haha, what a dirtbag.
If she can't rip a huge bong I don't want to hear it 😂
Really mahn
@@ricowhoo1313 yea. Really man.
So if I got hired in the 80s off 9 10% how come I can't get high off 34% now
tolerance break?
@@YouGotMyAttention or was it the breakdancing
Yeah I don't know if I believe numbers. Even the weed today looks different. And it ain't because technology or growers getting better.. it's called a groomed market.
These are the same people who are unsure what constitutes a woman 👩 👏 🙄
??
@philiprobrerts809 Sounds like you smoking something other than weed, rhymes with rack.