I am a scientist, BS Environmental Science and MS Botany, and not only do I have a lot of issues with the processes on which the firearms expert's findings were made, but also to hear a scientist say that they have never been wrong makes me instantly skeptical of their work in general and their findings in this case. To hear ANYONE say that they have never been wrong should make others question their honesty and the validity of their statements. We are not computers. Humans do not have 100% accuracy. Who among us has never been wrong?
I hear ya. This case proves to me how incompetent local yocal law enforcement really is. They are more invested in 'rank' to mimic the MilitARY ranKINGS by hiring ex military personnel trained to kill anyone they claim is a threat to officer safety ~ dash cams and body cams is the saving grace for victims of #PoliceViolence so let us not allow them to turn off their cams for any reason/s! Let us 'work' for transparency in GovernMENt$ as we are their only oversight!!!
I totally agree: "I was never wrong" is a massive red flag almost everywhere but especially from a scientist. What this firearm "expert" did sounded like reverse engineering: "I want those marks to appear how do I have to treat the cartridge to get them?" Then her supervisor confirmed she succeeded doing this. She didn't proof that only RA's firearm could have done that.
@@paigemprice He put himself at the trails at 1:30, he said he was dressed like BG, a Ford Focus on video arriving the area, at 1:27, he said he seen three girls and even described them and a time stamp of a photo of the girls coincidence of his arrival and them leaving the park, the 3 girls said it was BG as seen from Libby's phone, Betsy Blair seen BG on platform 1 and she identified BG from Libby's phone, RA put himself on platform one, Betsy Blair as she walked back identified Abby and Libby. SC identified BG at 3:57 on the road walking towards the CPS building, RA said he parked at the CPS building. He confessed. He said a white van on the road spooked him. ( something only the killer would of known). KA was to have said in a video to RA you said you weren't on the bridge. He changed his timeline in the interrogation. No one who was at the trails that day said they identified a man dressed like BG on the trails that day. There are no other girls who were on the trails that day who saw a man dressed like BG to give him an alibi.
@@125dovepeople who have been found guilty by a jury does not mean they did it. Have you heard of the innocence project? The US has executed innocent people. Our system is one of the best but it's not infallible. One in four people exonerated by DNA evidence "confessed". The police couldn't get Richard to confess. He only "confessed" after being tortured and falling into a psychotic State.
It bugs me too that people talk before the trial but citizens aren't held to the same restrictions as juriou. The opinions of people aren't supposed to affect the jury
The fact that the guards at that prison admitted they were wearing Odinist patches, and even the warden admitted they were wearing Odinist patches, everything the defense lawyers were alleging became exponantially more realistic.
@@RationalGaze216 yes and the defense attorneys and Richard Allen didn't come up with the Odinst theory. Police who were investigating it first did. They tried to tell the prosecutor this and he ignored it. The officer had to send a certified letter. The Purdue professor said yes it appears to be a ritual thing and they lied about that too. They said they couldn't reach him. He came forward too. But he wasn't allowed to be subpoenaed because they blocked that. Do not accuse anyone else. And we will object to anything you argue about and the judge will be on our side and she was. It's sickening!
2 guards. Your statement implies all the guards. Are you aware of how many guards work there? Nothing was ritualistic about the scene. In fact Richard was hurried having already been spooked by the van and moving them across the creek. The blood on the tree was clearly from libby. We know from the blood dripping down her body she had touched the tree as she staggers to the ground, brutally bleeding out, the ground fully saturated. The sticks ended up hastily tossed. Richard can hear the other girls that were on the bridge at that exact time according to the timeline... if you have ever been there sound carries. All of this was a hurried, brutal, sick killing of 2 children by a mentally. Ill. Man in 19 minutes. It's laughable to claim anything is t related to a ritual. Allen places himself on platform 1. We know what time Betsy Blair saw him on platform 1 when she was at the barricades.
@@Betsy.Ross76was that the witness who described the beautiful man? He was also covered in blood and mud according to one but absolutely no signs in his car, not one bit of DNA. I still dont believe he did it
When did 13 months of solitary confinement at a state prison become acceptable protocol for a presumed innocent person awaiting trial? Sets a dangerous precedence.
Now that he's been found guilty I hope his case goes to a higher court, perhaps even the Supreme Court, that says "no, you can't treat anyone this way, let alone a pretrial detainee" I hate for Rick to be a "guinea pig" but it may save others from similar treatment
Just subscribed to Defense Diaries. As much of an avid true crime enthusiast as I am, it is mind numbing HOW I have just now learned about Defense Diaries… 🤯🤯🤯. I absolutely agree with and respect his work and passion for protecting our Constitutional Rights! Mad respect for him and his wife. He is definitely on the level of Peter and Papa Tragos, for me! Thank you for introducing me to another phenomenal attorney, Peter! Excellent choice of guests! Keep up the good fight, you guys! We all appreciate having you all fight for all of our rights and freedoms.
@ most welcome and deserved, Bob! I can assure you that I will promote your channel as I do Peter’s! Education, especially on a J.D. level, is one of my life’s passions. It comes down to my innate and insatiable desire to make sure that our Constitution is protected and upheld, always. I have so much respect for the good men and women who fight this fight and go up against a “system” ( the Government) that seems to (more times than not) get away with the absolute destruction of people’s lives and the prosecutorial misconduct that goes on is defeating. I could have a conversation with you for days on end as to your opinion on the YSL “RICO” case in Fulton County, Ga! Cognitive dissonance is all I can truly say to describe the ineptitude of that entire trial, with the exception of the Defense Attorneys. Brian Steele, Max Schardt, and Weinstein have truly shown the grit, fight , and dedication it takes to be the most fierce advocate for your client as I have seen in quite some time. Again, my pleasure hearing your vantage points on Delphi (I do not disagree with a single point you made) and for just being introduced to you! I will forever be thankful to Peter for having you on today! Thank you for your time!
@@missimcginniswell said. The importance of stressing, testing, and upholding these truths can’t be overstated. Our forefathers knew them as self evident yet had experienced the ways in which a government could trample upon them. They were brave enough and wise enough to devise and implement the better way that we all take too much for granted. Our treatment of the civil and criminal evils done in our society is the absolute bleeding edge of our future survival and viability. We need good examples and teachers like these to remind us that we are all privileged to benefit from the best governmental foundation a flawed world has managed and that we should appreciate, delight, and participate in it. Cheers🎉
One of the founding fathers said it it's better to let 10 guilty people go free then put one innocent man in jail. This is true and on this basis I would vote not guilty if I were on the jury
But it’s not. If 9 Ted Bundies were set free just to make sure some dude that confessed to the crime, was over dressed in the same clothes of the suspect, was the only male seen in the window of the crime, had his bullet found by the body, and had inside knowledge that was not publicly known such as the white van - is not good.
@@devonglide1830 Ted Bundy was a serial killer with abundant evidence as to his crimes. RA has no prior criminal record and a very weak circumstantial case. They are not thr same thing.
What is so frustrating about this case is that it will never feel like Libby and Abby will get justice. I am not convinced that RA did this beyond a reasonable doubt but he could have. The evidence was just not there for me. Will an innocent man be convicted of their murders while the real killers go free? Will he be acquitted but is really guilty? The evidence is so bad in this case, we may NEVER know!!!! I hate it so much. Its beyond frustrating 🤬
Yup, I think it's because of how careless and reckless the state was in investigating this case. There are so many inconsistencies in their methods and findings and how he was treated in custody; but then there's the issue of the confessions and conversations RA had with his wife and mom.
I wasn't sure he was guilty until yesterday when I watched the DutyRon pod. Ron's sidekick is well versed in ballistics and when he talked about the qualifications of someone who examines such evidence, I became convinced RA is guilty.
RA is guilty, but the state did a poor job proving it because of even poorer investigation. RA is a pitiful man who acted out on a perverted fantasy and got away with it for 5 years. The jury will most likely hang, but please RA in not innocent!!
I'm interested in why that person managed to convince you, but the numerous experts on ballistics and on firearms law who vehemently reject it as junk "science" don't tip your scales.
The "once and for all" moment for me was when they had that guy doc testify at the end of the trial, and he said, right there on the stand, that Rick confessed to him on the 20th; when when he confessed, he was no longer showing signs of psychosis, and was responding well to the medicine. The defense repeated all that info to clarify, and he said yes. Then the defense showed a video of Rick on the 20th, that very day; and he was in a wheelchair, out of mind, and couldn't even sit up on his own. Look, after everything else, if that doesn't wake you up, literally NOTHING will. To me, that's when this should have been over. When is someone, who has the authority, going to stand up and say ENOUGH!!! 😡😡😡😡😡 We should ALL be LIVID over what they've done to Rick, especially bcz Rick could be any of us!!!
I’m sorry. There’s no way we have the best justice system if Gull can stay on the bench behaving like this and there’s nothing that could be done to stop her.
1000000% agree with your Comment. As long as gullBLADDER is on the bench and or anyone ever is, like that creature ..Justice will NEVER be served for anyone.
@@BlackStump172 there's something about, if police arrested someone and prosecution pursue the charges, then it must be that someone... They must have enough strong evidence. Why otherwise they would bring them to the court, right? Aaaand then, you have ie televised trials and you see for yourself how power or spite or more so incompetence of police or prosecution play part in "justice"... And then the "innocent until proven" makes much more sense...
@@pesquallyflanger1319"There is nothing else" Have you not been paying attention at all?! There's such a a ridiculous amount of evidence you could find him guilty twice using merely half of it.
@@pesquallyflanger1319 that’s true, but I don’t believe the confessions. Look at what they went to just to get the confessions. Put someone in Psychosis where they will say anything.
Loved this conversation. I'm 40 years old now but considering going to law school to become a criminal defense lawyer because I've been so inspired by people like Peter, Andrea, Runkle and now Bob. My fave podcast episode so far. Great work guys.
I'm wishing you lots of luck if you decide to become a defence attorney; your comment indicates that you have passion & integrity, everything else can be learned. I changed my career path at a similar age & if you have sufficient desire it's possible to do so at virtually any stage of life. People can change a lot as they grow & evolve & what was right for us to study at university or what field to enter after completing our studies isn't always right for us a decade or two later. Best wishes for your success.
Thanks for having Bob on. He's a due process warrior, he's always said if the evidence shows RA is the guy he'll understand a G verdict. Those who say he's a shill for defense haven't listened to him for the past 2 years
Lol there's so much evidence for guilt you could try RA twice using half the evidence each time and prove guilt both times beyond a reasonable doubt. These RA apologists have lost all ability for critical thinking, just purely emotionally driven.
@@125dove He was sitting with the family of the defendant, in their reserved seats. He was invited by Kathy. Just ask him, he'll tell you. Everybody just assumed it was a defense seat but nobody asked him (or Kathy)
Same! My suspicion is that, even before psychotic attack, RA was really desperate to be taken out of his small cell and to somehow change his situation, that he said what he thought they wanted to hear.
My husband suffered from depression for years and years. There would be no way he could have been able to be locked up in a normal cell without losing it, but in that prison cell under constant scrutiny and constant noise would sent him over the edge VERY QUICKLY. I know he would said whatever he needed to say at some point if he thought it would have gotten him out of there. I think RA did the same thing. His confessions from day one were merely a way to cope with the situation.
I also think the number of confessions could be a sign of desperation rather than truth. The number of them lowers their credibility rather than increasing it.
It’s my belief that criminal defense lawyers are the last line of defense of our basic constitutional rights. Mad respect and appreciation for them and for due process and justice. ⚖️
I used to think how hard it would be to defend the guilty, but Natalie Lawyer Chick made the same point - that it’s their job to make sure the state proves the case. That is such an important position, otherwise the state can do whatever they want. Defense lawyers are critical to a fair process.
"Due process is a legal concept that refers to the fair and orderly conduct of legal proceedings to protect and enforce private rights" Wave goodbye to "Due Process" at least in Delphi, Indiana
My fear is that no matter what the outcome is, Justice is NOT going to be served in this case. It’s going to be ongoing heartache for all involved. The jury has it tough on this one. I don’t think the proof of guilt has been proven - too much secrecy and uncertainty. This has been bad on every level, including the judge. And 13 months in solitary in PRISON while presumed innocent makes no sense. SAD!
Thankfully “Justice” doesn’t mean making conspiracy theory RUclipsrs audiences satisfied. Justice has been served in the case. You just don’t live there, weren’t affected by the crime, and are a lookie lou, so you don’t have the real investment in justice that Abbey and Libby’s families and the people who live there do. For them it’s not a game.
Right! All these people jumping quickly to say GUILTY Guilty Guilty….are simply wanting justice and that is Easy…it’s what we ALL want however, we can’t say Guilty until we see/hear All the evidence! It’s way more difficult to say Innocent! We live in America and must follow the justice system….we can’t pick and choose who can get a quick guilty verdict just because…if we allow this with one case we have to allow it for all then heck half of our friends and family would be in jail while the real bad guys are running free 🤷🏼♀️
You two respect someone who’s said “I don’t give an eff about the victims” - speaking of Abby & Libby, two little girls who were brutally and horrifically murdered?!? Really?!? That sure says a hell of a lot about you two and none of it is good!
Good choice Peter. DD has been following this case closely, and longer than almost all the YT’ers. He knows the case inside out, has been present for the trial and won’t place judgements or give opinions based solely on headlines, soundbites, innuendos and rumors or half ass vetting if newspaper articles. And he has integrity. Cheers.
Anyone whose "never been wrong" on a completely subjective topic hasn't had their work scrutinized enough or examined by the right people. How disturbing.
I found that irritating and I am glad they found him guilty. Since I believe all the other evidence and I still believe the round was RA's and it came from his gun.
@@karenandrews8695 you're welcome to your opinion. We never got to see the round or any part of this, really. The reasonable doubt is just way too much for my comfort. If this were me or someone I cared about personally, I'd feel railroaded, steamrolled, and like it was all hidden for a reason.
@@karenandrews8695 they didn't have the money to allow him to handle it and do his own testing. All that stuff is budgeted through the state and they denied them the cost of doing it. He did want to see it. That's the kind of stuff that was left out in front of the jury that stacked the deck for the state.
Were you on the jury? Or have you decided he’s not guilty based on what you’ve heard on YT? Anyone who makes a decision either way based on second or third hand information should never be on a jury.
Peter - your show is brilliant as always. Bob, as a fellow lawyer, I admire your ability to really switch off your legal training & experience and examine the facts from the angle of a layperson. I think that, notwithstanding understanding of the law and trial procedure, this attribute is the difference between a good defense lawyer and a great defense lawyer. I thoroughly enjoyed this discussion between the two of you.
If you torturing people there is higher possibility that they tell false information than truth because they know you didn't accept the truth, so they tell you want you wanna hear
So now this man is most likely innocent, has been mentally abused/damaged, lost his job/home/savings, and there are people who will always think hes guilty of this crime and want to hurt him...and he can't even sue?!? And these crooked cops just get to keep on doing this to people (Allen is not the only one Ligget has done this too in Carroll County). Seems like some laws need to change to protect people from this - like some higher standard of evidece to make an arrest.
Plus once you've gone into psychosis, you are much more likely to experience it again. His brain chemistry has literally changed thanks to the illegal conditions he was put it. He will never be the same.
I agree with you. That’s an interesting comment about Liggett. I’m guessing you have in-depth knowledge behind that? My estimation of the corruption in Carroll and surrounding counties could barely be worse, but can you elaborate?
The second an 'expert' tells me they've never been wrong, I'm discounting them as a liar. No one gets to expert level of anything without ever making a mistake. It's statistically impossible.
I kinda wish we'd change verdict forms to "Proven or Unproven" to put the spotlight squarely on the State's evidence. I feel like it would remove the idea of Guilty (prosecution story) vs Not Guilty (defense story) which puts people in a position of feeling like they're choosing which one they believe. They aren't: only one story is being scrutinized and it's the one the State is telling.
I think they took a picture of the dude. But I honestly believe that they were waiting for someone else that they didn't know, and took a picture for whatever reason. R A if he was inhibited by drinking three beers and walked like he walked I don't see how he could possibly go down the hill and do what he did in that short period of time.
Terrible verdict. The world is watching. Richard Allen should have never been in prison conditions in solitary but in a jail. With monitors if necessary. Driving a person into psychosis, iffy evidence, etc just makes US jurisprudence look like a torture until you confess. I am mightily disappointed. That judge even removed his lawyers and SC of Indiana had to reinstate. So bad. So disappointed in my chosen profession.
If we aren't 100% sure he did it, he has to be not guilty or start all over. I don't think he did it. I just dont see a 5'4 man doing that to 2 girls pretty much his size. I don't understand how no one heard screaming if there are just people walking out there. I don't think the confessions should be considered after seeing the conditions he was in and the behavior he was showing.
SIXTY confessions? I recommend the analysis by Hidden True Crime. Lauren Matthias is a seasoned journalist who covers many trials. She was in Delphi in the courtroom every single day, sitting up outside for hours in the night to make sure she got one of only 14 seats provided to the public. Her husband Dr. John Matthias is a forensic psychologist. ✌🏽
@@Grammichal I don't agree with Lauren and her husband. A journalist? That has no weight anymore. She can write a article about it? Ok. I've seen this first hand. I watched Bob and Andrea and lawyer Lee who were ALL there and all lawyers explaining the law and how injustice it is and why it's going to get appealed for how this judge handled the trial. Just whatever think what you want I really don't care.
And we have no idea if Rick Allen was threatened by the guards or someone at the prison that he better get on that phone and confess if he wanted food, or if he wanted to continue to make phone calls to his loved ones.
The fact that it was written like a narrative and that the state kept trying to say there were all kinds of details "only the killer would know," when there's been rumors of a van being involved for years, AND how invested Walla was in the case, make it suspect imho. Allen never even said the color, and we have no proof that information didn't simply come from discovery or Walla, who we know was investigating the case on her own. The whole thing has been sketchy from the start. I usually have more faith in LE, but lately some of these cases have really concerned me
Not only has he been found guilty by the guards, he’s been punished beyond legality, by the guards, for something he may not have done. His mental may never come back. 😞
@@sunshinemitch the exception here is that they treated him like a CONVICTED inmate AND went against their own procedures keeping home in solitary 365 days beyond the max of 30. If not for the efforts of his defense team, he'd have been there for 24mos!!
@@kpttimes9043 exactly, he should've been treated better, which he wasnt, cause he was not convicted of ANY crime. He is a pre trial detainee that should've been in jail, not prison. They put him in prison for literally no actual reason and just pure speculation
@@sunshinemitchnope Mitch you couldn’t be more wrong. Those guards are the Odinists wearing Odin patches who have tortured him and are actually members of the group that’s guilty of the murders. So no he hasn’t been treated the same. Also you aren’t supposed to be held in prison before being found guilty. Smh you are a joke
Being willing and able to change one's mind when new evidence comes to one's awareness is admirable. It's a lot more important than being right from the very beginning. Respect to ya 😊
Great show guys! You guys get a bad wrap as a defense attorney, but you are very much appreciated!! I think we all should believe ANY OF US can be at the wrong place at the wrong time. Crazy circumstances can happen. Such as the same type of car, gun, clothing, build, hair color etc. There are so many people in prison right now who did absolutely nothing wrong and cannot prove it. All because of these crazy circumstances. It is terrifying. Unless there is evidence such as crystal clear surveillance that you didn't do it, it's your word against the police. There are also very dirty cops EVERYWHERE!
Instant fan of Defense Diaries- this man understands & has a rational mind, critical thinker- let's hope there's at least ONE on the jury. RA ought to be acquitted & awarded a massive settlement.
Moreover- this case ought to be career-ending for perhaps a dozen or more "officials", as well as result in an independent criminal investigation, & prosecution to the fullest extent of the law- these are the kind of corrupt individuals that need to be made an example of, no matter the century, the country, the crime- our very civilization is threatened by this kind of behaviour.
Let's hope the jury is driven more by logic than emotion and is able to focus on the overwhelming evidence against RA and set aside the fact that he got his feeling hurt in prison.
There is a Psychologist on the jury. This jury has asked extremely logical questions so hopefully they are critical thinkers. There is no hard evidence and a lot of sketchy circumstantial evidence.The thing that bothers me is that they asked to see the Bridge Guy video and his interview with police again on Saturday. Just because he was there was doesn't mean he killed these girls. I don't know if he is guilty, I have my doubts, but that Bridge Guy video doesn't prove anything to me. I don't believe one man could do thing alone as Bob says. And nothing in his behavior before or after the murders indicates he is capable of that. Those confessions means nothing to me, they were made under extreme duress.
I assumed RA was guilty. I generally do go into any trial with an expectation that the accused is guilty. I still assumed he was guilty when I began to get uncomfortable about the way in which this case was being handled - the judge trying to force his lawyers off the case and appoint new lawyers who viewed him as guilty was probably the biggest red flag. Going into trial, there were so many questionable decisions that I was concerned that any conviction would end up overturned on appeal, and make everyone go through this again. By the end of this, I couldn’t imagine anything other than a not guilty verdict. But I’m looking at all of the evidence not just what the jury was allowed to see. And it’s an absolute travesty that cameras were not allowed in the courtroom for such an important and contentious case where transparency was utmost importance. I’m horrified by the verdict. I don’t know if he’s guilty or not, but I do know he didn’t get a fair trial.
@@valerierodger did you not see the interview of one of the other attorneys he had for the time before his were reinstated? He said he didn't believe he had committed the crime and that a sacrifice had occured. This was after he was no longer his attorney. Court Tv with Barbara Mcdonald
@@justmissjameyJamey - I could write ten pages of reasons why Richard Allen is not guilty and maybe a half a page of why he's guilty. It overwhelmingly leans not guilty.
Why doesn't his mom and wife testify on his behalf, the wife cries all the time. Maybe she suspects something, anything and it only makes her cry. Such a mess of a case, no doubt!!
I totally agree with your guest…I question R. Allen’s confession due to him not being referred for a competency eval as he became psychotic and started confessing. Sounds like Dr Wala was way too invested in this case IMO
The defense attorneys never requested a competency evaluation for Richard Allen.. I can think of no strategic reason for this choice. Judge Gull would have had to determine if it was warranted, but Baldwin and Rossi were no shrinking violets when dealing with Gull. They had fought for so much in this case that I just don’t understand why they didn’t request a competency evaluation.
Thanks for having Bob on, he has been grossly misrepresented by the guilty without trial camp. He has educated so many to the professional standards that is being a defensive attorney. I for one respect defense attorneys so much more now and that will out live the hype of this case…
I find that lay people and journalists tend to be more convinced of his guilt. Lawyers are showing more concerns with the legal issues of a fair trial and convincing evidence
I'm convinced that a large percentage of the folks who swear that RA is guilty have undoubtedly been subconsciously influenced by the media constantly playing video of Allen all shackled up being taken to court. Don't forget there's a reason why it is illegal to make any defendant appear in front of the jury that way- the courts have determined that seeing defendants in prison scrubs & shackles overwhelmingly & unduly influences the members of the jury that the defendant 'must be GUILTY' despite any & all exculpatory evidence the jury is presented during the trial. Unfortunately & obviously the media knows this basic fact, too. 🤔
I recommend the analysis by Hidden True Crime. Lauren Matthias is a seasoned journalist who covers many trials including Vallow/Daybell. She was in Delphi in the courtroom every single day, sitting up outside for hours in the night to make sure she got one of only 14 seats provided to the public. Her husband Dr. John Matthias is a forensic psychologist. ✌🏽
They were incredibly biased toward his guilt. Her husband "assessed" him by looking at him (?!) but without ever talking to him or having him do any tests. He pegged him as some sick nuisance from afar! Absooute bias.
@@kristyreynoldsapaintersdau9016 They should have proved that Allen's gun makes those marks on all bullets cycled through it. So weird that they didn't do that...seems like an easy way to check and see if this gun is the one. And then check against bullets cycled through the same make/model of guns and check for differences.
Then bullet isn't even necessary to prove his guilt, it's just one of the many many things that all lines up with his obvious guilt. We already know RA is BG due to witnesses being all over the scene describing seeing no one else that could have been BG other than RA entering the trail at 130, which we know was him due to his own words stating that's when he got there, a car that looks like his heading towards the place he said he parked at 127 and 4 witnesses seeing him enter the trail and RA HIMSELF DESCRIBING SEEING THE WITNESSES. If you actually look at a map of the scene and plot out the various people involved along it at the times we KNOW they were there, you will see there is no other remote possibility other than RA being BG.
After watching coverage from this trial and many others over the years, it baffles me how Americans still believe they have the best justice system in the world.
They think they are the best in the world full stop & don’t actually know how the rest of the world is horrified by their society, especially the gun culture & justice system.
Great conversation. Love hearing the nuanced opinions of highly intelligent, authentic, thoughtful men. We need more people with your kind of integrity and commitment to truth and justice. Good on you both. 🎉😊🎉
Elvis Fields said he was at a ritualistic event gone wrong and *confessed* he said if they found his spit on one of them he'd have an explanation. Brad Weber changed testimony to fit the timeline! Unbelievable
@@lprice2826 Excited Utterance does a deep dive on these other people she is also a mod on Andreas channel and I mod hers, she is great!! Yep that's a name I heard too.
Elvis Fields blatantly ignored a subpoena as well, and the judge doesn't seem to think that's a problem. Warrant for him? Denied! Brad Weber originally wanted to distance himself and has now happily put himself at the scene without the state producing the evidence...🚩
Bingo!! It’s wild how many people I see online blindly parroting the guilty narrative! They act like they know it all, but the second I mention the name “Elvis Fields” they either admit they didn’t know about him and are shocked, act as if he must not be a big deal if the police let him go 🤦🏼♀️ OR they suddenly get real quiet 😂
I really hope this jury finds him not guilty! The fact that the judge wouldn’t allow in any information or testimony from the 3rd party alternative suspects is incredibly concerning. I can only imagine how upset the jurors will feel once they discover how many key elements the judge refused to allow in. Especially when they learn who Elvis Fields is, the fact that he confessed to 2 different people (and one passed a lie detector test), and the incriminating statements he made to police when he tried to explain that he’d have a reason if his spit was found on one of the girls. Smh the way this entire case and the trial have been handled are extremely disturbing. I want justice for Abby & Libby and putting the wrong person behind bars isn’t justice. Thank you for covering this & thank you Bob for being our eyes and ears in the courtroom! ❤
Lie detector tests aren’t science. This ballistics stuff isn’t science. There is a whole lot of negligence here…everyone from the judge on down on the side of prosecution and law enforcement is suspect here.
Peter, first, thanks for having Bob on the show, but a question for you, is that bullet testimony from the state's "expert", one of the area's that is grounds for an appeal if there is a guilty verdict in this case?
Solitary confinement can be very difficult for seasoned prisoners. Usually 30 days especially in county jail is a long stretch. Usually they hit you with 1 to 2 weeks of solitary for infractions like fighting. So months and months of solitary would be very difficult especially for an inexperienced inmate.
Teen during Central Park Five case in NYC. Decades later when the truth of that case unfolded an entire generation was astounded by what had happened. I never trust LE, legal system or media anymore. Everything is filtered through personal world view and subconscious confirmation bias. I too had a bias to assume guilt, but now think he may be innocent and has been manipulated and abused. Either way there is not enough evidence that can stand up against counter explanations. Too much lost evidence, corruption, incompetence and unfair trial practices.
Try every relative there from both families ! Try local Delphi residents not these long distance Defence Attorneys backing up their unethical colleagues. Its these people who are dangerous . Truth will out Baldwin and Rossi will burn in Hell for their selfish disgusting behaviour. The Convict is exactly where he belongs, guilty beyond any doubt. Believe the Jury they have seen all the evidence.
Having watched defense diaries trial coverage along with every recap by Andrea Burkhart, I think Richard Allen’s innocence is the only answer that makes sense. The case against him should never have been brought.
I really like Bob's attitude toward this case. He has a concerning, and realistic perspective. He explains his reasoning very well, which is very important. Thanks for having him on Peter.
I LOVED this video! I don’t care if it’s long…I listened while I am working. I loved listening to Defense Diaries take on the trial and everything he has observed!
FINALLY! It is explained how this spent casing information came in when there is no precedent! I could never figure out how it got past a Daubert / Frye hearing, but is stated here that this state doesn't have such. WTH!
Love Bob for his fearlessness in fighting for the truth and for justice, and his humility! Also, as a native Chicagoan I feel your pain lol! Need to bring some levity to this one, and commiserating over the Bears is an easy way to do it… praying for an acquittal, the state has not come even close to meeting their burden in my opinion.
I am still perched on the fence, I'm traumatized by that day's atrocity, and then things got weird when investigation and trial started. I am still perched on the fence.
😂 I am admittedly a yapper…Ali was watching from the beginning when Peter asked me to briefly go through the facts of the case…she text “briefly…oh no!”😂
@@Ania-cd2sh I go to Peter to make sure I didn’t miss anything and Defense Diaries to get Every detail ! I need them both desperately! Thank you for all you do !
@@sherrijohns433 You don't know that they weren't false. I'd love to see what most of us would say 13 months in solitary with a bible. What are your thoughts on Elvis Field's confession, without having been in solitary? And Brad Holder's wife's information about him and Patrick Westfall?
I really like this guy Motta! He sounds so reasonable and fair! He bravely express his frustration with states and prosecutors! I wish the judge in this case had small fraction of this guy's decency!
Someone said no cameras in court blame RUclips lawyers. Peter - "I take that as a compliment" that is phenomenal Peter. From Scotland where we have very little transparency and NO self defence law! 💎🏴
Thanks for having Defense Diaries on to discuss this case. I actually never heard of Defense Diaries prior to this episode but will definitely be subscribing to the channel. I actually found this episode very enlightening. Hope you have Defense Diaries on again after the verdict.
I have heard repeatedly that Gull said as long as all of the jurors were together, even at the hotel, they were allowed to discuss the case. I would definitely like to have that cleared up. Either way, I felt like it wasn't right. Having the jurors discuss the evidence prior to actual deliberation, could be very bad. Let's say they are discussing the information amongst themselves and they have only heard the prosecution's case, I would think that could possibly cement possible biases in their thinking without ever hearing the defense's side to be able to take that into consideration.
Re-watch. Great show! This is a horrible case in so many ways. Praying for the community of Delphi. The suffering will continue no matter what the outcome. Thank you both for all you do!
Amazing questions Peter . Wow! “Do you believe RA is innocent, not NG or G, but innocent”. That made me pause. How can you know? But you have taught us that it’s about evidence and proof. We are not all knowing. Such a great question…..and answer!
I am a scientist, BS Environmental Science and MS Botany, and not only do I have a lot of issues with the processes on which the firearms expert's findings were made, but also to hear a scientist say that they have never been wrong makes me instantly skeptical of their work in general and their findings in this case.
To hear ANYONE say that they have never been wrong should make others question their honesty and the validity of their statements. We are not computers. Humans do not have 100% accuracy. Who among us has never been wrong?
Well. I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken. 😆🤣
Agree! And the lack of basic understanding of how science works in general among so many Americans is a huge problem too, regardless of this case.
I hear ya. This case proves to me how incompetent local yocal law enforcement really is. They are more invested in 'rank' to mimic the MilitARY ranKINGS by hiring ex military personnel trained to kill anyone they claim is a threat to officer safety ~ dash cams and body cams is the saving grace for victims of #PoliceViolence so let us not allow them to turn off their cams for any reason/s! Let us 'work' for transparency in GovernMENt$ as we are their only oversight!!!
I totally agree: "I was never wrong" is a massive red flag almost everywhere but especially from a scientist.
What this firearm "expert" did sounded like reverse engineering: "I want those marks to appear how do I have to treat the cartridge to get them?" Then her supervisor confirmed she succeeded doing this. She didn't proof that only RA's firearm could have done that.
🚩
As a scientist, its horrifying seeing what is admissible as truth in court
The bullet is plenty, you backed your car in you own the same clothes you were their during the time line wearing the same clothes. Y
It's scary how a prosecution call call certain things fact.
The prosecutors only care about WINNING. Not guilt or innocent. They don’t want to lose! Win at any cost!! Sickening
Wonder why no cameras in court?? 🤔 I know now!!
Was there any voice analysis done? Unfortunately due to the holidays coming and working overtime I haven't kept up like I wanted.❤😊
The “I’ve never been wrong” claim from the ballistics expert is what convinced me it wasn’t real science.
Agree and that one juror that didn’t want to say guilty will loose sleep forever they caved in
That was a total red flag for me.
I didn't accept the bullet defense. I do believe it was his. But there was plenty of other evidence to say he did it.
@@karenandrews8695What evidence convinced you?
@@paigemprice He put himself at the trails at 1:30, he said he was dressed like BG, a Ford Focus on video arriving the area, at 1:27, he said he seen three girls and even described them and a time stamp of a photo of the girls coincidence of his arrival and them leaving the park, the 3 girls said it was BG as seen from Libby's phone, Betsy Blair seen BG on platform 1 and she identified BG from Libby's phone, RA put himself on platform one, Betsy Blair as she walked back identified Abby and Libby. SC identified BG at 3:57 on the road walking towards the CPS building, RA said he parked at the CPS building.
He confessed.
He said a white van on the road spooked him. ( something only the killer would of known).
KA was to have said in a video to RA you said you weren't on the bridge.
He changed his timeline in the interrogation.
No one who was at the trails that day said they identified a man dressed like BG on the trails that day. There are no other girls who were on the trails that day who saw a man dressed like BG to give him an alibi.
100%. So many ppl comment, ‘GUILTY’ before these trials even begin. JURORS are supposed to go in not guilty until proven guilty. ❤
And now people are screaming not guilty when he was found guilty.
@@125dovepeople who have been found guilty by a jury does not mean they did it. Have you heard of the innocence project? The US has executed innocent people. Our system is one of the best but it's not infallible. One in four people exonerated by DNA evidence "confessed". The police couldn't get Richard to confess. He only "confessed" after being tortured and falling into a psychotic State.
@ before a trial is set to begin, based off jury duty, it is supposed to be not guilty
It bugs me too that people talk before the trial but citizens aren't held to the same restrictions as juriou. The opinions of people aren't supposed to affect the jury
The fact that the guards at that prison admitted they were wearing Odinist patches, and even the warden admitted they were wearing Odinist patches, everything the defense lawyers were alleging became exponantially more realistic.
@@RationalGaze216 yes and the defense attorneys and Richard Allen didn't come up with the Odinst theory. Police who were investigating it first did. They tried to tell the prosecutor this and he ignored it. The officer had to send a certified letter. The Purdue professor said yes it appears to be a ritual thing and they lied about that too. They said they couldn't reach him. He came forward too. But he wasn't allowed to be subpoenaed because they blocked that. Do not accuse anyone else. And we will object to anything you argue about and the judge will be on our side and she was. It's sickening!
They had a 3 day hearing on it before the trial. They came up short….
2 guards. Your statement implies all the guards. Are you aware of how many guards work there?
Nothing was ritualistic about the scene. In fact Richard was hurried having already been spooked by the van and moving them across the creek. The blood on the tree was clearly from libby. We know from the blood dripping down her body she had touched the tree as she staggers to the ground, brutally bleeding out, the ground fully saturated. The sticks ended up hastily tossed. Richard can hear the other girls that were on the bridge at that exact time according to the timeline... if you have ever been there sound carries.
All of this was a hurried, brutal, sick killing of 2 children by a mentally. Ill. Man in 19 minutes. It's laughable to claim anything is t related to a ritual.
Allen places himself on platform 1. We know what time Betsy Blair saw him on platform 1 when she was at the barricades.
@@Betsy.Ross76was that the witness who described the beautiful man? He was also covered in blood and mud according to one but absolutely no signs in his car, not one bit of DNA. I still dont believe he did it
When did 13 months of solitary confinement at a state prison become acceptable protocol for a presumed innocent person awaiting trial? Sets a dangerous precedence.
Agree 💯 We are heading for Dangerous Territory!! Hell we are already here 😢
That's what's scariest about this case. Now other prosecutors can toss people on prison forever and cite this case as proof that it's ok and allowed.
Now that he's been found guilty I hope his case goes to a higher court, perhaps even the Supreme Court, that says "no, you can't treat anyone this way, let alone a pretrial detainee" I hate for Rick to be a "guinea pig" but it may save others from similar treatment
@@ricobravaro that was the plan in my opinion. To break him. They knew he had suffered with mental illness.
@@chasityyoung815 100% agree!
Just subscribed to Defense Diaries. As much of an avid true crime enthusiast as I am, it is mind numbing HOW I have just now learned about Defense Diaries… 🤯🤯🤯. I absolutely agree with and respect his work and passion for protecting our Constitutional Rights! Mad respect for him and his wife. He is definitely on the level of Peter and Papa Tragos, for me! Thank you for introducing me to another phenomenal attorney, Peter! Excellent choice of guests! Keep up the good fight, you guys! We all appreciate having you all fight for all of our rights and freedoms.
Thank YOU so much for the kind words and the sub!😊
@ most welcome and deserved, Bob! I can assure you that I will promote your channel as I do Peter’s! Education, especially on a J.D. level, is one of my life’s passions. It comes down to my innate and insatiable desire to make sure that our Constitution is protected and upheld, always. I have so much respect for the good men and women who fight this fight and go up against a “system” ( the Government) that seems to (more times than not) get away with the absolute destruction of people’s lives and the prosecutorial misconduct that goes on is defeating. I could have a conversation with you for days on end as to your opinion on the YSL “RICO” case in Fulton County, Ga! Cognitive dissonance is all I can truly say to describe the ineptitude of that entire trial, with the exception of the Defense Attorneys. Brian Steele,
Max Schardt, and Weinstein have truly shown the grit, fight , and dedication it takes to be the most fierce advocate for your client as I have seen in quite some time. Again, my pleasure hearing your vantage points on Delphi (I do not disagree with a single point you made) and for just being introduced to you! I will forever be thankful to Peter for having you on today! Thank you for your time!
🎉🎉🎉
Same. I hadn't heard of it before either but I'm subscribing also.
@@missimcginniswell said. The importance of stressing, testing, and upholding these truths can’t be overstated. Our forefathers knew them as self evident yet had experienced the ways in which a government could trample upon them. They were brave enough and wise enough to devise and implement the better way that we all take too much for granted. Our treatment of the civil and criminal evils done in our society is the absolute bleeding edge of our future survival and viability.
We need good examples and teachers like these to remind us that we are all privileged to benefit from the best governmental foundation a flawed world has managed and that we should appreciate, delight, and participate in it.
Cheers🎉
So good to see Peter and Bob talk all things Delphi
I don’t know how anyone can think that what the state of Indiana did to Richard Allen is okay.
@@crazy4nuno totally agree.
One of the founding fathers said it it's better to let 10 guilty people go free then put one innocent man in jail. This is true and on this basis I would vote not guilty if I were on the jury
Yes. I always think of this. I think this it what makes this justice system amazing & fascinating.
But it’s not. If 9 Ted Bundies were set free just to make sure some dude that confessed to the crime, was over dressed in the same clothes of the suspect, was the only male seen in the window of the crime, had his bullet found by the body, and had inside knowledge that was not publicly known such as the white van - is not good.
@@devonglide1830 Ted Bundy was a serial killer with abundant evidence as to his crimes. RA has no prior criminal record and a very weak circumstantial case. They are not thr same thing.
Says someone who isn't the victim of a repeat offender. Though I do not want innocent prosecuted either. Very bad example.
Same for young thug?
What is so frustrating about this case is that it will never feel like Libby and Abby will get justice. I am not convinced that RA did this beyond a reasonable doubt but he could have. The evidence was just not there for me. Will an innocent man be convicted of their murders while the real killers go free? Will he be acquitted but is really guilty? The evidence is so bad in this case, we may NEVER know!!!! I hate it so much. Its beyond frustrating 🤬
Yup, I think it's because of how careless and reckless the state was in investigating this case. There are so many inconsistencies in their methods and findings and how he was treated in custody; but then there's the issue of the confessions and conversations RA had with his wife and mom.
I wasn't sure he was guilty until yesterday when I watched the DutyRon pod. Ron's sidekick is well versed in ballistics and when he talked about the qualifications of someone who examines such evidence, I became convinced RA is guilty.
@@galamillar Out of curiosity, are you referring to the cycled bullet found at the scene?
RA is guilty, but the state did a poor job proving it because of even poorer investigation. RA is a pitiful man who acted out on a perverted fantasy and got away with it for 5 years. The jury will most likely hang, but please RA in not innocent!!
I'm interested in why that person managed to convince you, but the numerous experts on ballistics and on firearms law who vehemently reject it as junk "science" don't tip your scales.
The "once and for all" moment for me was when they had that guy doc testify at the end of the trial, and he said, right there on the stand, that Rick confessed to him on the 20th; when when he confessed, he was no longer showing signs of psychosis, and was responding well to the medicine. The defense repeated all that info to clarify, and he said yes. Then the defense showed a video of Rick on the 20th, that very day; and he was in a wheelchair, out of mind, and couldn't even sit up on his own. Look, after everything else, if that doesn't wake you up, literally NOTHING will. To me, that's when this should have been over. When is someone, who has the authority, going to stand up and say ENOUGH!!! 😡😡😡😡😡 We should ALL be LIVID over what they've done to Rick, especially bcz Rick could be any of us!!!
RA also asked the cop or agent something about "if his spit is found on one of the girls" - WHO SAYS THAT???
I agree. That's the point I felt I couldn't 100% trust anything the prosecution claimed.
Well to me that says malingering. If the doctor spoke to him and he was alert and oriented but then sits in a wheelchair and acts crazy? Seriously?
It was someone else who asked that.
@roserose-j6r Elvis Fields asked the cop that. He confessed to killing both girls. The judge refused the defense to bring in third-party culprit.
I'm disgusted by the fact they found they found him guilty. It's so wrong.
I’m sorry. There’s no way we have the best justice system if Gull can stay on the bench behaving like this and there’s nothing that could be done to stop her.
💯
1000000% agree with your Comment.
As long as gullBLADDER is on the bench and or anyone ever is, like that creature
..Justice will NEVER be served for anyone.
...continued.....
Justice will never be served as long as gullBLADDER or anyone creature like IT is on the bench. 😠😡😡😡😤😤😤
I agree with Peter. Someone is innocent until The State PROVES the guilt.
Supposedly , in theory , but it doesn’t seem to be actually true .
@@BlackStump172 there's something about, if police arrested someone and prosecution pursue the charges, then it must be that someone... They must have enough strong evidence. Why otherwise they would bring them to the court, right?
Aaaand then, you have ie televised trials and you see for yourself how power or spite or more so incompetence of police or prosecution play part in "justice"...
And then the "innocent until proven" makes much more sense...
It comes down to whether they believe the confessions.
There is nothing else
@@pesquallyflanger1319"There is nothing else" Have you not been paying attention at all?! There's such a a ridiculous amount of evidence you could find him guilty twice using merely half of it.
@@pesquallyflanger1319 that’s true, but I don’t believe the confessions. Look at what they went to just to get the confessions. Put someone in Psychosis where they will say anything.
Soooo happy to see you have Bob on! Thanks, Peter, for doing these with Andrea, Lawyer Lee, and Bob Motta!!! I
@@jodiej4884 don’t forget our pitbull, Ali Motta.
@@pascalepierloot oh, yes!! She's amazing!!
@@jodiej4884 She’s so gutted now...very unfair trail and even that jury is going to be traumatized
He's a Shill for the defense looking for likes & supper chat 👎
Re: oberg, i dont trust anybody who says they dont make mistakes, but other people around them do.
Loved this conversation. I'm 40 years old now but considering going to law school to become a criminal defense lawyer because I've been so inspired by people like Peter, Andrea, Runkle and now Bob. My fave podcast episode so far. Great work guys.
I became an attorney at 33 & had a very successful career in criminal law for 30 years. It’s never too late & it’s incredibly fulfilling. Go for it!
Go for it!! 40 is still young!
I'm wishing you lots of luck if you decide to become a defence attorney; your comment indicates that you have passion & integrity, everything else can be learned. I changed my career path at a similar age & if you have sufficient desire it's possible to do so at virtually any stage of life. People can change a lot as they grow & evolve & what was right for us to study at university or what field to enter after completing our studies isn't always right for us a decade or two later. Best wishes for your success.
Then go. It's never too late.❤
Thanks for having Bob on. He's a due process warrior, he's always said if the evidence shows RA is the guy he'll understand a G verdict. Those who say he's a shill for defense haven't listened to him for the past 2 years
He’s sitting with the Defense isn’t he?
@@125doveit's the seat he got , they have no control of that ! Very limited seating lol
LOL do you think the Defense gives anyone seats. That’s laughable
Lol there's so much evidence for guilt you could try RA twice using half the evidence each time and prove guilt both times beyond a reasonable doubt. These RA apologists have lost all ability for critical thinking, just purely emotionally driven.
@@125dove He was sitting with the family of the defendant, in their reserved seats. He was invited by Kathy. Just ask him, he'll tell you. Everybody just assumed it was a defense seat but nobody asked him (or Kathy)
The confessions are so suspect that I'd disregard them entirely if I were a juror.
Same! My suspicion is that, even before psychotic attack, RA was really desperate to be taken out of his small cell and to somehow change his situation, that he said what he thought they wanted to hear.
My husband suffered from depression for years and years. There would be no way he could have been able to be locked up in a normal cell without losing it, but in that prison cell under constant scrutiny and constant noise would sent him over the edge VERY QUICKLY. I know he would said whatever he needed to say at some point if he thought it would have gotten him out of there.
I think RA did the same thing. His confessions from day one were merely a way to cope with the situation.
@kathylelong3348 I'm so sorry your husband had to go through that. People don't realize how fragile the mind is. ❤️
I also think the number of confessions could be a sign of desperation rather than truth. The number of them lowers their credibility rather than increasing it.
@FlyingTeaRex agreed 💯
It’s my belief that criminal defense lawyers are the last line of defense of our basic constitutional rights. Mad respect and appreciation for them and for due process and justice. ⚖️
Absolutely!
Defense Attorneys have the most difficult job!
I used to think how hard it would be to defend the guilty, but Natalie Lawyer Chick made the same point - that it’s their job to make sure the state proves the case. That is such an important position, otherwise the state can do whatever they want. Defense lawyers are critical to a fair process.
Totally agree 💯
I can credit Bob and Allie for changing my perspective on "presumed innocence"
My mind was really opened.
"Due process is a legal concept that refers to the fair and orderly conduct of legal proceedings to protect and enforce private rights"
Wave goodbye to "Due Process" at least in Delphi, Indiana
My fear is that no matter what the outcome is, Justice is NOT going to be served in this case. It’s going to be ongoing heartache for all involved. The jury has it tough on this one. I don’t think the proof of guilt has been proven - too much secrecy and uncertainty. This has been bad on every level, including the judge. And 13 months in solitary in PRISON while presumed innocent makes no sense. SAD!
😢😢😢😢😢😢😢
Thankfully “Justice” doesn’t mean making conspiracy theory RUclipsrs audiences satisfied. Justice has been served in the case. You just don’t live there, weren’t affected by the crime, and are a lookie lou, so you don’t have the real investment in justice that Abbey and Libby’s families and the people who live there do. For them it’s not a game.
Wow! Exactly the kind of exposure the world NEEDS and Bob deserves! Well done!💙💫🙏🏻⚖️
From day one I've said RA is innocent and I still stand by that. Justice for the girls is getting the right person RA is innocent.
We should all hope we never find ourselves needing a Bob Motta. Mad respect for the work he does!❤
Agreed Motta seems like a great dude very real and down to earth and just a good guy
Right! All these people jumping quickly to say GUILTY Guilty Guilty….are simply wanting justice and that is Easy…it’s what we ALL want however, we can’t say Guilty until we see/hear All the evidence! It’s way more difficult to say Innocent! We live in America and must follow the justice system….we can’t pick and choose who can get a quick guilty verdict just because…if we allow this with one case we have to allow it for all then heck half of our friends and family would be in jail while the real bad guys are running free 🤷🏼♀️
You two respect someone who’s said “I don’t give an eff about the victims” - speaking of Abby & Libby, two little girls who were brutally and horrifically murdered?!? Really?!? That sure says a hell of a lot about you two and none of it is good!
I never would.
Good choice Peter. DD has been following this case closely, and longer than almost all the YT’ers. He knows the case inside out, has been present for the trial and won’t place judgements or give opinions based solely on headlines, soundbites, innuendos and rumors or half ass vetting if newspaper articles. And he has integrity. Cheers.
I saw him on Dateline, he's as crooked as they come.
So happy to see you have Bob on!
Anyone whose "never been wrong" on a completely subjective topic hasn't had their work scrutinized enough or examined by the right people. How disturbing.
Agreed.
I found that irritating and I am glad they found him guilty. Since I believe all the other evidence and I still believe the round was RA's and it came from his gun.
@@karenandrews8695 you're welcome to your opinion. We never got to see the round or any part of this, really. The reasonable doubt is just way too much for my comfort. If this were me or someone I cared about personally, I'd feel railroaded, steamrolled, and like it was all hidden for a reason.
@@deepstatethrombosis the defense expert never asked to see it, he only viewed photos.
@@karenandrews8695 they didn't have the money to allow him to handle it and do his own testing. All that stuff is budgeted through the state and they denied them the cost of doing it. He did want to see it. That's the kind of stuff that was left out in front of the jury that stacked the deck for the state.
I like this collaboration. Their dynamics really mesh well together.
Not guilty- way to much reasonable doubt.
Were you on the jury? Or have you decided he’s not guilty based on what you’ve heard on YT?
Anyone who makes a decision either way based on second or third hand information should never be on a jury.
@ 🙄
Peter - your show is brilliant as always.
Bob, as a fellow lawyer, I admire your ability to really switch off your legal training & experience and examine the facts from the angle of a layperson. I think that, notwithstanding understanding of the law and trial procedure, this attribute is the difference between a good defense lawyer and a great defense lawyer.
I thoroughly enjoyed this discussion between the two of you.
Thank you so much for those kind words.
If you torturing people there is higher possibility that they tell false information than truth because they know you didn't accept the truth, so they tell you want you wanna hear
Agree with this statement
Okay, what about the confession that came BEFORE all of that?
I agree. We honestly do not know what unique individuals minds can endure.
@ then you check their story so can rule out they covering somebody else, no need to torturing. Just good investigation.
@@BarryMcCockiner-em5svthere was no confession prior to his abuse.
So now this man is most likely innocent, has been mentally abused/damaged, lost his job/home/savings, and there are people who will always think hes guilty of this crime and want to hurt him...and he can't even sue?!? And these crooked cops just get to keep on doing this to people (Allen is not the only one Ligget has done this too in Carroll County). Seems like some laws need to change to protect people from this - like some higher standard of evidece to make an arrest.
I can’t help thinking that if he is truly “guilty”, why didn’t he relocate? He had 5 years!!
Plus once you've gone into psychosis, you are much more likely to experience it again. His brain chemistry has literally changed thanks to the illegal conditions he was put it. He will never be the same.
I've heard attorneys say he can sue the prison for the solitary confinement, so I hope he does and gets millions.
I agree with you. That’s an interesting comment about Liggett. I’m guessing you have in-depth knowledge behind that? My estimation of the corruption in Carroll and surrounding counties could barely be worse, but can you elaborate?
It’s truly heart breaking
The second an 'expert' tells me they've never been wrong, I'm discounting them as a liar. No one gets to expert level of anything without ever making a mistake. It's statistically impossible.
I kinda wish we'd change verdict forms to "Proven or Unproven" to put the spotlight squarely on the State's evidence. I feel like it would remove the idea of Guilty (prosecution story) vs Not Guilty (defense story) which puts people in a position of feeling like they're choosing which one they believe. They aren't: only one story is being scrutinized and it's the one the State is telling.
That is a great idea!!!
exactly
Great point.
We have a not proven verdict in Scotland.
@@marionkunderan1590 which is why I am thankful I am an American.
Love Bob Motta. You should have him on more often.
I would have no clue if asked about an event 5-7 years ago. No way!
I definitely would not remember in detail that's for darn sure.
I think they took a picture of the dude. But I honestly believe that they were waiting for someone else that they didn't know, and took a picture for whatever reason. R A if he was inhibited by drinking three beers and walked like he walked I don't see how he could possibly go down the hill and do what he did in that short period of time.
Same! What "alibi"? If it was a workday, check with my employer. Hope I wasn't out with some illness!
Damn don’t ask me for time stamps for 2 weeks ago 😳 I think I have malfunction in my brain that doesn’t process time! Lol
Right, they would have to lock me up, I can't remember what time I was somewhere a month ago, let alone five years ago!😅
Terrible verdict. The world is watching. Richard Allen should have never been in prison conditions in solitary but in a jail. With monitors if necessary. Driving a person into psychosis, iffy evidence, etc just makes US jurisprudence look like a torture until you confess. I am mightily disappointed. That judge even removed his lawyers and SC of Indiana had to reinstate. So bad. So disappointed in my chosen profession.
If we aren't 100% sure he did it, he has to be not guilty or start all over. I don't think he did it. I just dont see a 5'4 man doing that to 2 girls pretty much his size. I don't understand how no one heard screaming if there are just people walking out there. I don't think the confessions should be considered after seeing the conditions he was in and the behavior he was showing.
SIXTY confessions? I recommend the analysis by Hidden True Crime. Lauren Matthias is a seasoned journalist who covers many trials. She was in Delphi in the courtroom every single day, sitting up outside for hours in the night to make sure she got one of only 14 seats provided to the public. Her husband Dr. John Matthias is a forensic psychologist. ✌🏽
@@garygrud8017 Um it's called false confessions. It's happened a lot when being in those conditions and coercing them!
@@Grammichal I don't agree with Lauren and her husband. A journalist? That has no weight anymore. She can write a article about it? Ok. I've seen this first hand. I watched Bob and Andrea and lawyer Lee who were ALL there and all lawyers explaining the law and how injustice it is and why it's going to get appealed for how this judge handled the trial. Just whatever think what you want I really don't care.
I have zero confidence in the so called confessions documented by Dr Walla.
And we have no idea if Rick Allen was threatened by the guards or someone at the prison that he better get on that phone and confess if he wanted food, or if he wanted to continue to make phone calls to his loved ones.
The fact that it was written like a narrative and that the state kept trying to say there were all kinds of details "only the killer would know," when there's been rumors of a van being involved for years, AND how invested Walla was in the case, make it suspect imho. Allen never even said the color, and we have no proof that information didn't simply come from discovery or Walla, who we know was investigating the case on her own. The whole thing has been sketchy from the start. I usually have more faith in LE, but lately some of these cases have really concerned me
Not only has he been found guilty by the guards, he’s been punished beyond legality, by the guards, for something he may not have done. His mental may never come back. 😞
The guards treat all inmates the same they have too. They don’t care why he is there at all. He is there has to be treated like all the rest.
@@sunshinemitch the exception here is that they treated him like a CONVICTED inmate AND went against their own procedures keeping home in solitary 365 days beyond the max of 30. If not for the efforts of his defense team, he'd have been there for 24mos!!
@@kpttimes9043 exactly, he should've been treated better, which he wasnt, cause he was not convicted of ANY crime. He is a pre trial detainee that should've been in jail, not prison. They put him in prison for literally no actual reason and just pure speculation
@@sunshinemitchnope Mitch you couldn’t be more wrong. Those guards are the Odinists wearing Odin patches who have tortured him and are actually members of the group that’s guilty of the murders. So no he hasn’t been treated the same. Also you aren’t supposed to be held in prison before being found guilty. Smh you are a joke
@ 😂 That’s not it
Thank you so much for bringing him on. I have seen him around Delphi but legit thought he was a wannabe quackadoodle, thank you for proving me wrong.
Being willing and able to change one's mind when new evidence comes to one's awareness is admirable. It's a lot more important than being right from the very beginning. Respect to ya 😊
Great show guys! You guys get a bad wrap as a defense attorney, but you are very much appreciated!! I think we all should believe ANY OF US can be at the wrong place at the wrong time. Crazy circumstances can happen. Such as the same type of car, gun, clothing, build, hair color etc. There are so many people in prison right now who did absolutely nothing wrong and cannot prove it. All because of these crazy circumstances. It is terrifying. Unless there is evidence such as crystal clear surveillance that you didn't do it, it's your word against the police. There are also very dirty cops EVERYWHERE!
Andrea, Lawyer Lee and now Bob! Damn Peter! You are the new Oprah! I love it!
Yeah!!💯 The dream team!!!
Oprah went to a Diddy party
@@kitkat9655Party or freak off ? Big difference. Did she stay for the freak offs?
“I don’t give an eff about the victims” - Bob Motta speaking of Abby & Libby in this case. That’s who you support?!? Really?!?! 🙄
better than the big O
The State should be ashamed of themselves. They failed justice for everyone!
Instant fan of Defense Diaries- this man understands & has a rational mind, critical thinker- let's hope there's at least ONE on the jury. RA ought to be acquitted & awarded a massive settlement.
Moreover- this case ought to be career-ending for perhaps a dozen or more "officials", as well as result in an independent criminal investigation, & prosecution to the fullest extent of the law- these are the kind of corrupt individuals that need to be made an example of, no matter the century, the country, the crime- our very civilization is threatened by this kind of behaviour.
@@unclebennyscreepycampfires6828 there are really good people.
100%
Let's hope the jury is driven more by logic than emotion and is able to focus on the overwhelming evidence against RA and set aside the fact that he got his feeling hurt in prison.
There is a Psychologist on the jury. This jury has asked extremely logical questions so hopefully they are critical thinkers. There is no hard evidence and a lot of sketchy circumstantial evidence.The thing that bothers me is that they asked to see the Bridge Guy video and his interview with police again on Saturday. Just because he was there was doesn't mean he killed these girls. I don't know if he is guilty, I have my doubts, but that Bridge Guy video doesn't prove anything to me. I don't believe one man could do thing alone as Bob says. And nothing in his behavior before or after the murders indicates he is capable of that. Those confessions means nothing to me, they were made under extreme duress.
I assumed RA was guilty. I generally do go into any trial with an expectation that the accused is guilty.
I still assumed he was guilty when I began to get uncomfortable about the way in which this case was being handled - the judge trying to force his lawyers off the case and appoint new lawyers who viewed him as guilty was probably the biggest red flag.
Going into trial, there were so many questionable decisions that I was concerned that any conviction would end up overturned on appeal, and make everyone go through this again.
By the end of this, I couldn’t imagine anything other than a not guilty verdict. But I’m looking at all of the evidence not just what the jury was allowed to see.
And it’s an absolute travesty that cameras were not allowed in the courtroom for such an important and contentious case where transparency was utmost importance.
I’m horrified by the verdict. I don’t know if he’s guilty or not, but I do know he didn’t get a fair trial.
Thanks for your honesty
@@valerierodger did you not see the interview of one of the other attorneys he had for the time before his were reinstated? He said he didn't believe he had committed the crime and that a sacrifice had occured. This was after he was no longer his attorney. Court Tv with Barbara Mcdonald
What is so very sad is that if RA is innocent, there are those watching who know it and are letting another human fall for them.
Hes guilty
half of the usa think cruelty is the point . legal system is rubbish
@@justmissjameyJamey - I could write ten pages of reasons why Richard Allen is not guilty and maybe a half a page of why he's guilty. It overwhelmingly leans not guilty.
Why doesn't his mom and wife testify on his behalf, the wife cries all the time. Maybe she suspects something, anything and it only makes her cry. Such a mess of a case, no doubt!!
They probably are enjoying it.
I hope she was fined under HIPAA for accessing another person’s personal health information she had zero right to access.
I totally agree with your guest…I question R. Allen’s confession due to him not being referred for a competency eval as he became psychotic and started confessing. Sounds like Dr Wala was way too invested in this case IMO
Wouldn't the competency question not have to be raised by the defense? Why didn't they
@@Shelby_Erilynwhen? So he was competent to stand trial now, when was he incompetent from when to when?
The defense attorneys never requested a competency evaluation for Richard Allen.. I can think of no strategic reason for this choice. Judge Gull would have had to determine if it was warranted, but Baldwin and Rossi were no shrinking violets when dealing with Gull. They had fought for so much in this case that I just don’t understand why they didn’t request a competency evaluation.
Thanks for having Bob on, he has been grossly misrepresented by the guilty without trial camp. He has educated so many to the professional standards that is being a defensive attorney. I for one respect defense attorneys so much more now and that will out live the hype of this case…
that one juror that didn’t want to say guilty will loose sleep forever they caved in
I believe he's innocent... like 80% sure innocence in my mind far outweighs guilt
From polls I've seen of people following the trial CLOSELY (not just headlines) - it's about 80% not guilty & 20% guilty.
Not guilty ! They framed him !
😂
I haven't followed this case but I see alot of people say innocent.
@@cryptid726 they’re all nutballs who bought propaganda and lies.
I find that lay people and journalists tend to be more convinced of his guilt. Lawyers are showing more concerns with the legal issues of a fair trial and convincing evidence
plenty of lay people believe the state has not proven the case , we arent all dummies
Sadly guilt and drama sells more and better.
And not all journalists. Barbara Macdonald is in the courtroom and she’s talking about it on court tv.
I'm convinced that a large percentage of the folks who swear that RA is guilty have undoubtedly been subconsciously influenced by the media constantly playing video of Allen all shackled up being taken to court. Don't forget there's a reason why it is illegal to make any defendant appear in front of the jury that way- the courts have determined that seeing defendants in prison scrubs & shackles overwhelmingly & unduly influences the members of the jury that the defendant 'must be GUILTY' despite any & all exculpatory evidence the jury is presented during the trial. Unfortunately & obviously the media knows this basic fact, too. 🤔
this lay person has not been persuaded he is guilty. Plenty of lay people feel the same.
Haven't been watching Bob as much as Lawyer Lee, but Bob certainly has more facts than anyone about this case!
I recommend the analysis by Hidden True Crime. Lauren Matthias is a seasoned journalist who covers many trials including Vallow/Daybell. She was in Delphi in the courtroom every single day, sitting up outside for hours in the night to make sure she got one of only 14 seats provided to the public. Her husband Dr. John Matthias is a forensic psychologist. ✌🏽
I agreed with Lauren and Dr, John. RA is guilty!
They were incredibly biased toward his guilt. Her husband "assessed" him by looking at him (?!) but without ever talking to him or having him do any tests. He pegged him as some sick nuisance from afar!
Absooute bias.
@@alexnorth9740 Agree Lauren and John both terribly biased.
I did not believe the firearms expert. Either you show your work to prove it or get off the stand.
@@kristyreynoldsapaintersdau9016 They should have proved that Allen's gun makes those marks on all bullets cycled through it. So weird that they didn't do that...seems like an easy way to check and see if this gun is the one. And then check against bullets cycled through the same make/model of guns and check for differences.
@ I agree it didn’t prove it to me.
She wouldn’t show her work AND she testified she couldn’t exclude at least 2 guns that belonged to other people.
Her testimony was worthless imo.
Defense had an expert to refute these findings but Gull said NO!
Then bullet isn't even necessary to prove his guilt, it's just one of the many many things that all lines up with his obvious guilt. We already know RA is BG due to witnesses being all over the scene describing seeing no one else that could have been BG other than RA entering the trail at 130, which we know was him due to his own words stating that's when he got there, a car that looks like his heading towards the place he said he parked at 127 and 4 witnesses seeing him enter the trail and RA HIMSELF DESCRIBING SEEING THE WITNESSES. If you actually look at a map of the scene and plot out the various people involved along it at the times we KNOW they were there, you will see there is no other remote possibility other than RA being BG.
After watching coverage from this trial and many others over the years, it baffles me how Americans still believe they have the best justice system in the world.
They think they are the best in the world full stop & don’t actually know how the rest of the world is horrified by their society, especially the gun culture & justice system.
Have you watched trials in any other counties?
@ no live recording but have listened to the narrated trial transcripts
Defense Attorneys are the Super Heroes of Law 💪🫶
Great conversation. Love hearing the nuanced opinions of highly intelligent, authentic, thoughtful men. We need more people with your kind of integrity and commitment to truth and justice. Good on you both. 🎉😊🎉
Elvis Fields said he was at a ritualistic event gone wrong and *confessed* he said if they found his spit on one of them he'd have an explanation. Brad Weber changed testimony to fit the timeline! Unbelievable
Oh really that is another name I heard nothing of. I really had suspicion of James chadwell II
@@lprice2826 Excited Utterance does a deep dive on these other people she is also a mod on Andreas channel and I mod hers, she is great!! Yep that's a name I heard too.
Elvis Fields blatantly ignored a subpoena as well, and the judge doesn't seem to think that's a problem. Warrant for him? Denied!
Brad Weber originally wanted to distance himself and has now happily put himself at the scene without the state producing the evidence...🚩
Check out greg huges investigates and look at richard allen time lines that day and see the graphs
Bingo!! It’s wild how many people I see online blindly parroting the guilty narrative! They act like they know it all, but the second I mention the name “Elvis Fields” they either admit they didn’t know about him and are shocked, act as if he must not be a big deal if the police let him go 🤦🏼♀️ OR they suddenly get real quiet 😂
I really hope this jury finds him not guilty! The fact that the judge wouldn’t allow in any information or testimony from the 3rd party alternative suspects is incredibly concerning. I can only imagine how upset the jurors will feel once they discover how many key elements the judge refused to allow in. Especially when they learn who Elvis Fields is, the fact that he confessed to 2 different people (and one passed a lie detector test), and the incriminating statements he made to police when he tried to explain that he’d have a reason if his spit was found on one of the girls. Smh the way this entire case and the trial have been handled are extremely disturbing. I want justice for Abby & Libby and putting the wrong person behind bars isn’t justice. Thank you for covering this & thank you Bob for being our eyes and ears in the courtroom! ❤
Lie detector tests aren’t science. This ballistics stuff isn’t science. There is a whole lot of negligence here…everyone from the judge on down on the side of prosecution and law enforcement is suspect here.
Peter, first, thanks for having Bob on the show, but a question for you, is that bullet testimony from the state's "expert", one of the area's that is grounds for an appeal if there is a guilty verdict in this case?
One of many.
Solitary confinement can be very difficult for seasoned prisoners. Usually 30 days especially in county jail is a long stretch. Usually they hit you with 1 to 2 weeks of solitary for infractions like fighting. So months and months of solitary would be very difficult especially for an inexperienced inmate.
Teen during Central Park Five case in NYC. Decades later when the truth of that case unfolded an entire generation was astounded by what had happened. I never trust LE, legal system or media anymore. Everything is filtered through personal world view and subconscious confirmation bias. I too had a bias to assume guilt, but now think he may be innocent and has been manipulated and abused. Either way there is not enough evidence that can stand up against counter explanations. Too much lost evidence, corruption, incompetence and unfair trial practices.
Bob motta is my other favorite - so exciting to see the two of you collab
It’s telling that Peter can’t seem to find someone watching the trial that believes he’s guilty.
I can name 3 off the top of my head
@fbennetto me too - but I meant someone who is willing to be on Peter’s podcast. He said he filmed with one, but then (s)he asked him not to use it
Try every relative there from both families ! Try local Delphi residents not these long distance Defence Attorneys backing up their unethical colleagues. Its these people who are dangerous . Truth will out Baldwin and Rossi will burn in Hell for their selfish disgusting behaviour. The Convict is exactly where he belongs, guilty beyond any doubt. Believe the Jury they have seen all the evidence.
i LOVE this, 2 lawyers sharing experience, thoughts and the law! thank you ❤
I love Andrea, Lee and Bob! I wish you could them all at once! Bob is so clear and makes the trial more “human” for us without a legal mind.
Wow! I would want this fella behind me if I ever get accused of a crime I didn’t commit. He’s great! That makes two of you.
I have reasonable doubt. That equates to NG if I’m a juror.
Thanks Peter for having Bob on. I have a high regard for both him and Ali. Too much reasonable doubt in this case for me.
Having watched defense diaries trial coverage along with every recap by Andrea Burkhart, I think Richard Allen’s innocence is the only answer that makes sense. The case against him should never have been brought.
I really like Bob's attitude toward this case. He has a concerning, and realistic perspective. He explains his reasoning very well, which is very important. Thanks for having him on Peter.
OMG
Replay crew 💙 Your guests for Delphi have been excellent.
I LOVED this video! I don’t care if it’s long…I listened while I am working. I loved listening to Defense Diaries take on the trial and everything he has observed!
Two of my favorite attorneys.
FINALLY! It is explained how this spent casing information came in when there is no precedent! I could never figure out how it got past a Daubert / Frye hearing, but is stated here that this state doesn't have such. WTH!
Defence Diaries. Gold standard for True Crime. Been my absolute go-to for the 'real' Delphi trial. What a combo. Can't wait for this.
Never heard of this guy until now. Which sucks because he's high quality
Thank you Peter!! This is exactly why I love your channel so much ❤
Love Bob for his fearlessness in fighting for the truth and for justice, and his humility! Also, as a native Chicagoan I feel your pain lol! Need to bring some levity to this one, and commiserating over the Bears is an easy way to do it… praying for an acquittal, the state has not come even close to meeting their burden in my opinion.
Interesting conversation. Really enjoyed seeing all the perspectives.
Thank you Peter great choice in guest
Appreciate
So people are mad that a career defense attorney is concerned about constitutional rights?
I am still perched on the fence, I'm traumatized by that day's atrocity, and then things got weird when investigation and trial started. I am still perched on the fence.
My 2 favorites together! I have been waiting to see if this would ever happen ! Great episode. Thank you ❤❤
And I thought Peter talked a lot 😂 but love Bob, lawyer Lee and Andrea! All 4 my favorite
My fav 4 also!
😂 I am admittedly a yapper…Ali was watching from the beginning when Peter asked me to briefly go through the facts of the case…she text “briefly…oh no!”😂
😂@@DefenseDiariesPod
@@Ania-cd2sh I go to Peter to make sure I didn’t miss anything and Defense Diaries to get Every detail ! I need them both desperately! Thank you for all you do !
@@DefenseDiariesPod lol I think it’s a lawyer thing. You are amazing tho, keep yapping 😂
I think RA is completely innocent. I am making myself sick with worry waiting for the verdict…
Me too!
I disagree. She believed his confessions, but his attorneys convinced her that he was psychotic and were false. But they were not false.
@@sherrijohns433 You don't know that they weren't false. I'd love to see what most of us would say 13 months in solitary with a bible. What are your thoughts on Elvis Field's confession, without having been in solitary? And Brad Holder's wife's information about him and Patrick Westfall?
New sub here sent by Greg Hughes! Thanks for your unbiased coverage.
I really like this guy Motta! He sounds so reasonable and fair! He bravely express his frustration with states and prosecutors! I wish the judge in this case had small fraction of this guy's decency!
My feeling is there a lot less conspiracies happening and just lots of incompetence and laziness.
Someone said no cameras in court blame RUclips lawyers.
Peter - "I take that as a compliment" that is phenomenal Peter. From Scotland where we have very little transparency and NO self defence law! 💎🏴
The judge and prosecution TEAM never want the truth to get out. It may get expensive for them!!
Thanks for having Defense Diaries on to discuss this case. I actually never heard of Defense Diaries prior to this episode but will definitely be subscribing to the channel. I actually found this episode very enlightening. Hope you have Defense Diaries on again after the verdict.
I still can't believe 12 people found him guilty. But I know a lot more than they did
I have heard repeatedly that Gull said as long as all of the jurors were together, even at the hotel, they were allowed to discuss the case. I would definitely like to have that cleared up. Either way, I felt like it wasn't right. Having the jurors discuss the evidence prior to actual deliberation, could be very bad. Let's say they are discussing the information amongst themselves and they have only heard the prosecution's case, I would think that could possibly cement possible biases in their thinking without ever hearing the defense's side to be able to take that into consideration.
Love Bob and Ali 💕
#FreeRichardAllen
Re-watch. Great show! This is a horrible case in so many ways. Praying for the community of Delphi. The suffering will continue no matter what the outcome. Thank you both for all you do!
Amazing questions Peter . Wow! “Do you believe RA is innocent, not NG or G, but innocent”. That made me pause. How can you know? But you have taught us that it’s about evidence and proof. We are not all knowing. Such a great question…..and answer!