The Cynthia Olsen was a type of cargo ship known as a "Laker" because most of them were constructed in shipyards in the Great Lakes. Although most were built during WW-I, a few were still built during WW-II as well. Perhaps the best-known example of a "Laker" was the one used in the 1933 movie, "King Kong". The Cynthia Olsen was actually attacked BEFORE the attack on Pearl Harbor began and the ship managed to send a distress signal which was received at the Navy Base at Alameda. However, shortly afterwards they began to receive reports of the attack on Pearl Harbor, and everybody simply forgot about the Cynthia Olsen. As a result nobody ever even bothered to search for survivors of the Cynthia Olsen and none were ever found.
The SS Coast Farmer in the Pensacola Convoy had a sister ship- SS Coast Trader, that was torpedoed near Neah Bay off the coast of Washington state by J sub I-26. Same boat that got the SS Cynthia Olson. All crew except one survived the June 1942 sinking.
I sailed with many men who were there during WW2. There is a big plaque on the wall at my old union hall (MEBA) in the San Francisco Bay Area with a long list of Engineers that were killed on merchant ships in the Pacific Theater.
Cancer free and happy to be back onboard. Gosh Dr Sal, you are like a living encyclopaedia on all things maritime! so interesting to learn so many new things. I am reading about the Odfjell line right now. Not quite comparable, but very interesting all the same. Have an awesome day from a rather cold Melbourne🥶🥶🥶🌏
My grandfather worked at Puget Sound Naval Ship Yard in WW2. Told storys of ships departing in the morning and returning that evening with huge holes in there sides from shots taken. Japanese were much closer that the people ever knew. Thanks for what you do sal.
Thank you for the history lesson Sal. As a Kid in the 70's I was infatuated with the Pacific navel war. However most of what I was able to find to read in local libraries was about the surface war, U.S Submarines and Island hopping marines. Not a great deal on Japanese subs and merchant shipping.
Great job as usual Sal. Great history on something that is not always covered in WWII history. Also Thank you so much for remembering the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. So many people do not even know what Pearl Harbor is or was. As son of a WWII Army veteran who fought in the Pacific and as a retired Submariner (my ship was out of Pearl) thank you for remembering the date and valor and sacrifice of our various personnel.
Excellent video, really enjoyed it. I sailed on the Lurline ,after she had been sold to Chandris Lines and was renamed Ellinis, from Southampton to New York in 1970, it was a great trip.
Thank you for this presentation sir. The discussion of the use of Japan's submarine force vs the American merchant marine is most timely on this December 7.
Glad you brought in the Asian conflict which was China and Japan Another good source is Victor Davis Hanson on the subject Hanson teaches a free course on internet with Hillsdale College Not intense course because it’s to give good overview and history on 4 fronts that were fought This is wonderful that Sal is bringing this history from this perspective
Assigning cruisers as convoy escorts appears to me a mostly cosmetic exercise since the anti-submarine capabilities would be minimal. Perhaps some ability to stop a surfaced submarine from using his deck gun which was the preferred method of attacking an unarmed merchant in order to save expensive and limited numbers of torpedoes. Once again a very good, in depth discourse on a part of WWII history seldom addressed. We focus on Pearl Harbor and Midway Island and later Manila ignoring the actions not subject to major motion pictures. Thanks.
I don't know whether or to what extent this was coordinated with the German attack, Operation Drumbeat. Obviously anyone in the navy today wondering how we would respond to a Chinese version of Drumbeat on the West coast should see this, and I do think it could be presented as "the Japanese Drumbeat" and may have been coordinated with NS Germany.
Maybe do a co-post on this topic with Drachenifel? I don't think Drach or Dr. Alexander Clarke have ever done this one and I bet Mark Fenton hasn't either. I do think Mark Felton did a post about the later air-baloon incendiary attacks by Japan against the West Coast.
Throughout the 80s and 90s, supply chain management changed all over the world for most industries (upon the wider adoption of things like Lean and Just-in-Time inventory). Could you cover the impact it had on the shipping industry?
The USS Phoenix was sold to Argentina after the war and renamed the General Belgrano. The only ship sunk by a nuclear submarine. The HMS Conqueror on May 2,1982
I’m almost 42 and the message was always “Japan did Dec 7th but also Germany was also up to some stuff”…but zero times up until the past two years via the internet was WHY Japan attacked the US in HI. Turns out why the European and Pacific fronts existed were totally unrelated to each other. But a wild coincidence. I get the boomer message as an old kinda person but I wish I would have know the why along the way.
Very interesting indeed The merchant marine and indeed the various merchant vessels and their crews played a pivotal role during the war CDR Keith E Patton is currently working on a project to map every single loss in all the oceans at Annapolis you might be interested in his work
Read a manuscript that said the Pearl Harbor attack fleet had IJN Marines embarked and they were there if the Admiral thought he could land them. Since this would require carrier support, the fact the US carriers were not destroyed meant an amphibious assault was to risky. The Japanese planners thought that if they could land Marines and secure a landing strip the next step was to take the Hawaiian Islands before the US could recover.
time for some SS United States liner hulls IMHO, design still holds The Blue Ribband as far as i can recall. fit them out as express freight+ passengers with ship type fittings in order to keep them ready for other uses.
Sal, Enjoyed the history lesson. I assume you are digesting the USCG report on the Ever Forward. It's too bad they didn't say upfront the ship's equipment was functioning and they were investigating human error. Bob
This video made me think about (not for the first time) what happened to both countries ambassadors after 7 Dec. Turns out MS Gripsholm (Swedish flagged and crewed) did reparations between countries throughout the war.
Mention of the ports on the Pacific coast included three California posts with a U. S. Navy presence: San Diego, Los Angeles/Long Beach and San Francisco. I don't know about Seattle or Portland.
The US was already giving "All Aide Short of War" in the European part of WWII when Japan attack Pearl Harbor. The US declaration of war against Germany made things worse for the allies because Germany starting sinking ships within US waters.
Watching Sal’s channel and this episode brings home to me how both WW1 and WW2 made America the lead maritime power worldwide. Since WW2, America’s Navy has policed the world’s oceans allowing virtually unfettered freedom to ship anywhere in the world. Coupled with the two pinch points worldwide opened for shipping, the Suez Canal (1869) and Panama Canal (1914), America’s Navy and support maritime ships from 1945 to today have allowed global shipping commerce to explode. GPS/GNSS since the 1990’s probably even more so. (I find these new Green policies to slow ocean going commerce more than curious, thanks to Sal and this channel, I learned of this 2023 new upcoming restriction.) My second marriage happened in Piedmont NY. The town is named for a manmade pier built over 4000’ long jutting into the Hudson River where it is near 2 miles wide. During WW2, some 500,000 soldiers stepped-off the pier onto troop ships headed for Europe, earning it the nickname “Last Stop U.S.A.” Back in that day Erie RR had tracks to its end to speed RR traffic of goods and men to large ships docked at its end. Traveling to Australia in early 2000’s on business in Brisbane, I worked with an Aussie named Mike Forrest. Mike told me older Australians remembering WW2 had a true fondness and reverence for America. How so? May 8, 1942 Coral Sea navy battle between The Imperial Japanese Navy and US Navy was the very first navy battle that the Imperial Japanese Navy did not outright win, it was at best a draw. He told me Japan was planning to invade northeast Australia and the navy battle at Coral Sea, far off NE Australia ended this Japanese ambition. He went on to say at the end of WW2 it was found in a bank vault in Indonesia newly printed bank notes, minted showing Australia split into two half’s, the northern resource rich half Japanese and the bottom half remaining British. I had no idea and he was adamant of this fact. Thanks for another thought provoking video Sal. I’m reading currently “For Crew and Country”, the inspirational story of bravery and sacrifice aboard the USS SAMUEL B ROBERTS during WW2.
It really annoys me when Americans say that World War One didn't start until 1917 and World War 2 until 1941 respectively, when they joined. The millions who died across the world before then would indicate otherwise.
Abe was killed because he went against the covid lockdown. He went against the great reset. And against the human trafficking. Something trump was against off. It was a staged assassination. Quite similar to how jfk younger brother was shot. There are books on how the vatican is involved in all the world's assassination. One book name vatican assassins.
Tell us about the shipyard in maine, that sent ships to japan. There is a connection with the original owner, starting with the black ships. Black ship own by the vatican.
We always here about the battle of the Atlantic and the convoy raiding there, but this is the first time ive watched something about the equivalent in the Pacific
Thanks for this awesome history lesson. I knew the Germans were sinking ships off the east coast and in the Gulf of Mexico, but never knew the Japs were doing the same off our west coast. You learn something new everyday.
December 8 at the mango farm: My wife owns a lot at the site of the Japanese attack on Thailand. The village still looks about the same all these years later. Our Bangkok house at the beginning of The Death Railroad and the target of the first strike from a B-29. Breakfast with Sal. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Prachuap_Khiri_Khan
The Cynthia Olsen was a type of cargo ship known as a "Laker" because most of them were constructed in shipyards in the Great Lakes. Although most were built during WW-I, a few were still built during WW-II as well. Perhaps the best-known example of a "Laker" was the one used in the 1933 movie, "King Kong". The Cynthia Olsen was actually attacked BEFORE the attack on Pearl Harbor began and the ship managed to send a distress signal which was received at the Navy Base at Alameda. However, shortly afterwards they began to receive reports of the attack on Pearl Harbor, and everybody simply forgot about the Cynthia Olsen. As a result nobody ever even bothered to search for survivors of the Cynthia Olsen and none were ever found.
So with her being a Laker is that why the article was drawn from U of D Mercy? Is there a collection of Laker records there?
Robert...exactly correct on all counts. Thanks for the addition.
That is so tragic!
The SS Coast Farmer in the Pensacola Convoy had a sister ship- SS Coast Trader, that was torpedoed near Neah Bay off the coast of Washington state by J sub I-26. Same boat that got the SS Cynthia Olson. All crew except one survived the June 1942 sinking.
The CYNTHIA OLSON was built in Manitowoc, Wisconsin in 1918. My grandfather drove rivets on her.
Her name was COQUINA, hull #100.
Thank you for remembering Pearl Harbor!!! I was dismayed to see so few commemorations online, particularly one as informative and useful as yours!
I sailed with many men who were there during WW2. There is a big plaque on the wall at my old union hall (MEBA) in the San Francisco Bay Area with a long list of Engineers that were killed on merchant ships in the Pacific Theater.
i always enjoy your historical episodes. Thank you.
Cancer free and happy to be back onboard. Gosh Dr Sal, you are like a living encyclopaedia on all things maritime! so interesting to learn so many new things. I am reading about the Odfjell line right now. Not quite comparable, but very interesting all the same. Have an awesome day from a rather cold Melbourne🥶🥶🥶🌏
When one considers the quality of your content, I’m amazed that your channel isn’t over 1 million subscribers.
Thanks!!!
You have such knowledge ready to spread…it may be niche to today but I’d welcome a “What’s going on with shipping…historical edition” channel.
I like "shipping history", and generally all naval history. Thanks
I have not ever gotten the information that specific to the merchant marines and shipping
Thank you for your history lesson!
My grandfather worked at Puget Sound Naval Ship Yard in WW2. Told storys of ships departing in the morning and returning that evening with huge holes in there sides from shots taken. Japanese were much closer that the people ever knew. Thanks for what you do sal.
Thanks for using the cursor Sal,helps to fallow along .appreciate it thanks stay healthy
Love these historical episodes. Look forward to the next one!
Thanks for an excellent video and the information on Japanese submarines. I didn't realize their capabilities so will have to study up on them.
Thank you for the history lesson. I found it very interesting
Thank you for the history lesson Sal. As a Kid in the 70's I was infatuated with the Pacific navel war. However most of what I was able to find to read in local libraries was about the surface war, U.S Submarines and Island hopping marines. Not a great deal on Japanese subs and merchant shipping.
Great job as usual Sal. Great history on something that is not always covered in WWII history. Also Thank you so much for remembering the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. So many people do not even know what Pearl Harbor is or was. As son of a WWII Army veteran who fought in the Pacific and as a retired Submariner (my ship was out of Pearl) thank you for remembering the date and valor and sacrifice of our various personnel.
Excellent! Love these short history lessons!
Excellent video, really enjoyed it. I sailed on the Lurline ,after she had been sold to Chandris Lines and was renamed Ellinis, from Southampton to New York in 1970, it was a great trip.
Thank you for that insightful lesson, so left out of our history. As the son of a WWII sailor, I always love to learn more.
Very interesting video. I never knew about the merchant ships sink or the Japanese submarine threat. Thanks much!
Hey, thank you for all the links, Sal! Now, I've got reading to do...🇺🇸 😎👍☕
Thanks, Sal!
Thank you!
Thank you for this presentation sir. The discussion of the use of Japan's submarine force vs the American merchant marine is most timely on this December 7.
From what I understand there was a lot that had happened to provoke war before Dec 7th.
Thanks Sal
True!
Thanks for the upload. The U.S. Merchant Marine... important then, important now. We need more ships.
New info. Good stuff. 👍
This is an excellent overview of this day in history from the viewpoint of US shipping. Thank you!
Glad you brought in the Asian conflict which was China and Japan
Another good source is Victor Davis Hanson on the subject
Hanson teaches a free course on internet with Hillsdale College
Not intense course because it’s to give good overview and history on 4 fronts that were fought
This is wonderful that Sal is bringing this history from this perspective
Another great video
Excellent history lesson Sal. Thank you.
Very good, I learned a few things.
Thanks!
Assigning cruisers as convoy escorts appears to me a mostly cosmetic exercise since the anti-submarine capabilities would be minimal. Perhaps some ability to stop a surfaced submarine from using his deck gun which was the preferred method of attacking an unarmed merchant in order to save expensive and limited numbers of torpedoes. Once again a very good, in depth discourse on a part of WWII history seldom addressed. We focus on Pearl Harbor and Midway Island and later Manila ignoring the actions not subject to major motion pictures. Thanks.
There was an attack by two Japanese auxiliary cruisers between Tahiti and the Panama Canal. Plus the use if surface submarines was a concern.
I don't know whether or to what extent this was coordinated with the German attack, Operation Drumbeat. Obviously anyone in the navy today wondering how we would respond to a Chinese version of Drumbeat on the West coast should see this, and I do think it could be presented as "the Japanese Drumbeat" and may have been coordinated with NS Germany.
You should check out this earlier video.
ruclips.net/video/CgQExMHkVeM/видео.html
Maybe do a co-post on this topic with Drachenifel? I don't think Drach or Dr. Alexander Clarke have ever done this one and I bet Mark Fenton hasn't either. I do think Mark Felton did a post about the later air-baloon incendiary attacks by Japan against the West Coast.
Mark has done a video on the I-Boat attack on the West Coast. I will have to Drach and Alex.
Your conclusion, affirming the preeminence of shipping in war, makes me wonder about the logistics of the First gulf War.
Throughout the 80s and 90s, supply chain management changed all over the world for most industries (upon the wider adoption of things like Lean and Just-in-Time inventory).
Could you cover the impact it had on the shipping industry?
Check out this presentation:
ruclips.net/video/jvEt2SkM3-s/видео.html
The USS Phoenix was sold to Argentina after the war and renamed the General Belgrano. The only ship sunk by a nuclear submarine. The HMS Conqueror on May 2,1982
I’m almost 42 and the message was always “Japan did Dec 7th but also Germany was also up to some stuff”…but zero times up until the past two years via the internet was WHY Japan attacked the US in HI.
Turns out why the European and Pacific fronts existed were totally unrelated to each other. But a wild coincidence. I get the boomer message as an old kinda person but I wish I would have know the why along the way.
Very interesting indeed
The merchant marine and indeed the various merchant vessels and their crews played a pivotal role during the war
CDR Keith E Patton is currently working on a project to map every single loss in all the oceans at Annapolis you might be interested in his work
Read a manuscript that said the Pearl Harbor attack fleet had IJN Marines embarked and they were there if the Admiral thought he could land them. Since this would require carrier support, the fact the US carriers were not destroyed meant an amphibious assault was to risky. The Japanese planners thought that if they could land Marines and secure a landing strip the next step was to take the Hawaiian Islands before the US could recover.
Thank you Prof. ironically some of that history seems to be mirrored in the Philippine Sea today.
time for some SS United States liner hulls IMHO, design still holds The Blue Ribband as far as i can recall. fit them out as express freight+ passengers with ship type fittings in order to keep them ready for other uses.
Probably have to build in S Korea or China
@Sal did the need and urgency to reinforce the West Coast draw equipment and experienced personnel away from the Atlantic seaboard?
I did, but also the 50 destroyer deal with Britain. Many of those destroyers would have been available to the districts to set up coastal convoys.
@@wgowshipping thanks Sal.
Sal,
Enjoyed the history lesson. I assume you are digesting the USCG report on the Ever Forward. It's too bad they didn't say upfront the ship's equipment was functioning and they were investigating human error.
Bob
Stand by for an episode.
This video made me think about (not for the first time) what happened to both countries ambassadors after 7 Dec. Turns out MS Gripsholm (Swedish flagged and crewed) did reparations between countries throughout the war.
Mention of the ports on the Pacific coast included three California posts with a U. S. Navy presence: San Diego, Los Angeles/Long Beach and San Francisco. I don't know about Seattle or Portland.
I always heard it pronounced Laura Line.
I did sail with Matson….
The US was already giving "All Aide Short of War" in the European part of WWII when Japan attack Pearl Harbor. The US declaration of war against Germany made things worse for the allies because Germany starting sinking ships within US waters.
Actually, Germany declared war on the US. The US responded.
Did any of the POW's survive Japanesse internmint?
No mention of admiral king ?
King was not appointed COMINCH until after most of this happened.
I talk about him in this video:
ruclips.net/video/CgQExMHkVeM/видео.html
Oilers. How many did we have in early’42?
Reading the book "Dawn of Infamy" which is all about the history of the Cynthia Olsen and what happened that day. Highly recommend!
Watching Sal’s channel and this episode brings home to me how both WW1 and WW2 made America the lead maritime power worldwide. Since WW2, America’s Navy has policed the world’s oceans allowing virtually unfettered freedom to ship anywhere in the world. Coupled with the two pinch points worldwide opened for shipping, the Suez Canal (1869) and Panama Canal (1914), America’s Navy and support maritime ships from 1945 to today have allowed global shipping commerce to explode. GPS/GNSS since the 1990’s probably even more so. (I find these new Green policies to slow ocean going commerce more than curious, thanks to Sal and this channel, I learned of this 2023 new upcoming restriction.)
My second marriage happened in Piedmont NY. The town is named for a manmade pier built over 4000’ long jutting into the Hudson River where it is near 2 miles wide. During WW2, some 500,000 soldiers stepped-off the pier onto troop ships headed for Europe, earning it the nickname “Last Stop U.S.A.” Back in that day Erie RR had tracks to its end to speed RR traffic of goods and men to large ships docked at its end.
Traveling to Australia in early 2000’s on business in Brisbane, I worked with an Aussie named Mike Forrest. Mike told me older Australians remembering WW2 had a true fondness and reverence for America. How so? May 8, 1942 Coral Sea navy battle between The Imperial Japanese Navy and US Navy was the very first navy battle that the Imperial Japanese Navy did not outright win, it was at best a draw. He told me Japan was planning to invade northeast Australia and the navy battle at Coral Sea, far off NE Australia ended this Japanese ambition.
He went on to say at the end of WW2 it was found in a bank vault in Indonesia newly printed bank notes, minted showing Australia split into two half’s, the northern resource rich half Japanese and the bottom half remaining British. I had no idea and he was adamant of this fact.
Thanks for another thought provoking video Sal. I’m reading currently “For Crew and Country”, the inspirational story of bravery and sacrifice aboard the USS SAMUEL B ROBERTS during WW2.
Most Interesting! LION = Like # 197 (ROAR)
Love WW2 content
It really annoys me when Americans say that World War One didn't start until 1917 and World War 2 until 1941 respectively, when they joined. The millions who died across the world before then would indicate otherwise.
Didn't Abe Sinto die due to regaining approval for Japan to build military might again?
Abe was killed because he went against the covid lockdown. He went against the great reset. And against the human trafficking. Something trump was against off. It was a staged assassination. Quite similar to how jfk younger brother was shot. There are books on how the vatican is involved in all the world's assassination. One book name vatican assassins.
Tell us about the shipyard in maine, that sent ships to japan. There is a connection with the original owner, starting with the black ships. Black ship own by the vatican.
We always here about the battle of the Atlantic and the convoy raiding there, but this is the first time ive watched something about the equivalent in the Pacific
Thanks for this awesome history lesson. I knew the Germans were sinking ships off the east coast and in the Gulf of Mexico, but never knew the Japs were doing the same off our west coast. You learn something new everyday.
1:30 Oh good. I was hoping for tiny unreadable text. Bye.
December 8 at the mango farm: My wife owns a lot at the site of the Japanese attack on Thailand. The village still looks about the same all these years later. Our Bangkok house at the beginning of The Death Railroad and the target of the first strike from a B-29. Breakfast with Sal. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Prachuap_Khiri_Khan
Thank you!
Thank you!
You're welcome!