What happens to those who have never heard of Christ?w/Frank Turek
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- Опубликовано: 22 ноя 2022
- Many wonder what happens to those who have never heard of Christ. Would they have any chance of Salvation? How would these people be judged?
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I like to talk about the big questions of faith, progressive Christianity, and skeptical claims against the reliability of the Bible and the truthfulness of Christianity.
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The end of this truly hit home! I had this desperate longing. i knew of Jesus in my mind. I had scripture all over my house etc. But had never really recieved him in my heart. My husband came home from work one day and said I did work for a church today and I would like to go there Sunday. So we did. I walked around and picked up every single tract I could find. It was like i was starving to death. I read through several a day. One day I read this kids tract. I don't know what it was about that one but I gave my life to Christ right then. We did very soon find our own home church after that.
I work for the suicide prevention lifeline and I talk to people all over the country and even some outside of the country. There is even people in America that don’t have a true understanding of who Jesus is and what Christianity is all about. Some people don’t have the privilege of growing up in a Godly community where the word of God is available to them. The more non believers I’ve talk too the more I have questions about hell because I just don’t understand how someone can go to hell for all eternity for being born in the wrong place or religion. I think that their is a lot that we don’t know about Gods plans and purpose with that and I’ve given up trying to have a specific view on it because I think it’s so much more complex than us humans will be able to understand. All I know is that I trust God
Well said!
“Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?” Genesis 18:25
The Lord is just and merciful. I trust His judgment.
@@perazdera2827 Amen. It is hell without Jesus, but everyone who has not heard of Jesus, will only get what is right and just. I trust God.
@@kristalsea It is called "frog in the well" philosophy" that goes like this.
1. I only know what is written in Bible, without asking questions, and I believe in that as truth
2. How can there be truth outside Bible - this is your thinking now
3. You have been told that you simply have to have faith for being saved, even if your faith is blind
4. You have been put to scare of eternal hellfire, if you do not accept Jesus
5. You have been told that it is your only life
So. the reality is - you have lived many lives before - reimcarnation and hence there is no eternal hellfire. And you will keep coming back here, until you know why you reincarnate and how to stop it.
Please read "Bhagavad Gita As It Is" book - which reasonably tells the reality of nature, God and the rest
The absolute best answer I have ever heard to this very tuff question. I asked God for a clear answer to this question as I get it a lot from unbelievers and He led me here. Thank you
I remember asking my Mum this when I was about 11... and she responded with Matt 12:36-37.
'36 But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. 37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.'
It seemed just to me then and now.
I believe this is a very hard question to answer, and what I hear from both of you is what I was always taught and told. But as I have come to understand His word and His character, I truly do believe by what I read in these two passages that God has a very unique, different and beyond us criteria. As you read Romans 10:14-15 "14 But how will people call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how will they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher (messenger)? 15 And how will they preach unless they are commissioned and sent [for that purpose]? Just as it is written and forever remains written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news of good things!”
If you hear what Paul is saying, it is the fact that God is aware that in order for someone to call on God they need to believe, and believing comes from hearing, and hearing comes from a messenger/preacher, and these preachers/messengers are to be sent with this message. How beautiful are the feet...! Why are we here? To share the message. If God, in His justice, is to judge people by what they know, then even though Romans 1 tells us that we are without excuse, what He is talking about is the excuse of not acknowledging God and worshipping other things. But how are they to make the connection and the link between God and Jesus if they're not told about what Jesus did? And then in 2 Peter 3:8-9 it says "8 Dear friends, don’t overlook this one fact: With the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9 The Lord does not delay his promise, as some understand delay, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish but all to come to repentance." If He's holding off His coming so that everyone comes to repentance, but what you're saying is that we all don't have an excuse, then why wait? What is He waiting for? According to what you're saying, then what is the need to evangelize and share the good news? Why is Jesus/God waiting? Do you see? I know in the end God is the one who has the ultimate wisdom and sovereignty to do and judge however He pleases and sees right. But it is for us to try to understand His heart, character and word rightly. Thanks for all you do and putting these hard topics out there and for allowing for civil, loving and honest conversation!
All glory and love be to GOD THE FATHER THE SON THE HOLY SPIRIT THE HOLY TRINITY forever and ever amen 💖✝✝✝...
The Trinity doesn't exist for crying out loud
"After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from *every* nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb." Rev 7:9a
We need to do what we can. He'll make sure it happens the way He told us.
This is blind faith - reincarnation is the nature of reality
@@anilkumarkhatuareincarnation is blind, period.
This is so good! If people seek Him He will reveal Himself to them. He may use you or me to tell them about Jesus so be ready when He gives you an opportunity!
Just for your knowledge
1. This is not your first life as you have lived previous earthly lives, the Saving of Jesus has not worked for you
2. Because this is not your first earthly life, and God has given you another life to continue fulfill your desires, there is no eternal hellfire
3. There is no Resurrection, as you have reincarnated for many lives
4. How do you know this is not your first life? - Simple, because you have different IQ, EQ, SQ and inclinations than others. If it was your first life, and my first life, a just and impartial God, would not make you rich, and me poor, and make one God-oriented and other atheistic. So, we have mad ourselves to what we are by our choices of our previous lives and also of this life.
So, you need to know - reincarnation is the reality and one life and reincarnation
@@anilkumarkhatua Amazing you should write this, because it is the same thing I used to think!
@@anilkumarkhatua and reincarnation has clearly not worked for you.
In attempt to learn about the Protestant mind:
I have seen this question asked and answered by various Protestants like this - in a cookie cutter, almost talking-point kind of way - many times. However, they always seem to shy away (sometimes intentionally) from Romans 10.
This chapter asks the very question of who will and will not be saved (verses1-7, particularly 6-7);
Answers the question that it will be those who have have the Gospel and call on God (verses 8-13, particularly 9, 13);
Explains that they can't call on God without having heard of and believed in Him (verses 14-17);
Makes it clear that a teacher must be SENT by authority, not just taking on the preaching themselves (verse 15).
The rest of the chapter confirms that all of Israel indeed had the Gospel, but because they "sought me not" the Gospel was extended to the Gentiles ("into all the earth").
I would appreciate any insight into why so many of the reasons (theories) Protestants give as an answer to the question of what happens to those who have never heard of Christ either 1)fly in the face of Romans 10, or 2)have no scriptural basis whatsoever. Thanks in advance!
The moral questions in my opinion are not claiming a different objective morality, but rather proposing a critique based on what is internally consistent.
The question was historical in essence but unfortunately most of Frank’s response was cast in the present. I think Alisa’s reference to Romans was a more helpful starting point, especially if you consider the corollary. One can read history and consider there may have been those who did indeed respond to what God had given them. Socrates, for example, was put to death because he wouldn’t forsake the truth. It’s possible that he responded well to the hand God dealt him.
Exactly.
Frank seemed ti side step the ethnic, geographic implications
Yes. Agree. I share whether they want to hear it or not.
How would you explain God knows the future and he gave you free will, but what if he knows that through that free will you will reject Jesus. Why would he give you free will? If he wants everybody to be saved, then how come he doesn't change the outcome? I've heard people respond by God loves you and didn't want to have robots worshipping him. But saying it again, he knows the future and he gave you free will and he knows that through that free will you will reject him, so why would he give you the free will?
For those who might have missed it, Frank is saying that all the people who never heard the name of Jesus, all of them are going to hell.
So, all those aborted babies who never heard the name of Jesus are going to hell. Bummer. But I guess they were aborted because God knew if they were born and grew up, they'd reject Jesus anyway. Ah, now I feel better. Thank you, Jesus!
Frank has wisdom but lacks in knowledge according to the gospel in the epistles of the apostle Paul. CS Lewis had that problem also.
Frank is right about God wanting us to be saved. He wants that more than we.
John 12:47-48 According to Jesus, condemnation is largely contingent upon someone 1) hearing his words AND 2) *actively* rejecting his words. How can someone actively reject something they've never seen or heard about? I'll listen to Jesus over Frank.
@@osirismarbles5177 Do you believe the bible to be the inerrant Word of God? Do you believe that the church started in Acts 2?
He doesn't know
I’m not sure I agree, as someone who is trying to learn more about Christianity I’ve struggled with this very question. You argue that god has intentionally put people in places that don’t have access to the gospel because they wouldn’t accept it either way. How is this not predestination? What’s the point of any of this if god ultimately decides who gets to to hear the good news and who doesn’t? How is that just? I want to believe and choose to believe that Christ died for the sins of the world that all might be saved through him. I feel like god is not limited on who he can save just because they haven’t heard of Christ. But this idea that god denied some people access because they aren’t going to except it anyway feels immoral to me. Would love input:)
True, I agree with you.
"Which of you men, if you had one hundred sheep, and lost one of them, wouldn't leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one that was lost, until he found it? When he has found it, he carries it on his shoulders, rejoicing." Can we be greater than God? God awaits his prodigal son to return to him and then He will accept him with open arms. We are created in the likeness of God Who is eternal. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
This question is directly asked and answered in Romans 10:18 where he directly quotes Psalm 19
Nobody in the history of Christianity has ever "proved" that the epistle to the Romans was "inspired by God", therefore, atheists and non-Christians are well within any coherent definition of "reasonable" when they conclude that Paul had no more "authority" in theology than Apphia did.
@user-p239m7 "You hear people saying when they do not like something, 'Ah but that is only what Paul says.'
What they're really doing is showing their view of the scriptures."
-----------Except that there is ZERO compelling evidence that anything Paul wrote is "scripture". Thus we are well within any coherent definition of "reasonable" to reject Paul's epistles on the grounds that they constitute nothing more than the purely naturalistic opinions of a hypocritical and inconsistent Pharisee from 2000 years go.
Can we conclude that at the time that this was written there were no other explanations of how earth he came to be? Now we have people telling us it’s big bang or some other theoretical philosophy, and scientists calling it physics etc voiding God of being the creator.
Can we still believe in that?
Interesting that you use Romans 1, but missed the logic of Romans 2:12-16. It's a reference to the law, but the principle is the same...there are those whose consciences lead them to obey God which will testify for them (or accuse them) on the day of judgment. Some who've never heard the gospel may indeed be judged according to the best knowledge they've had about righteousness.
It is an act of honesty of humility to say 'i know nothing about God.' To reject all scriptural authority and therefore become extraordinarily humble to find out.....If you yourself have not understood what God is and the flowering of his goodness in your life, what value is it what others say?
Imagine a person wanting to reach you and you help him by giving him an address, a GPS location, descriptions, an assistant guide to help him reach his destination and his response is "reject all of that, I can find my way by myself"
Feel free to reject all scripture, that's your choice.
I can understand how one chooses to reject certain scripture by means of falsification but to reject all scripture is to reject the idea that God communicates and guides humanity.
Relying on yourself to find the way is good, it means you are using your God given faculties.
However, relying solely on that is to reject the other sources of guidance (angels/messengers/scriptures) and that is not good.
To say I'm solely relying on myself and I have found God, is an illusion.
Its easy to make up an image and call that God and God is happy with me.
Its easy to be fooled when one rejects the guidance from God and still feel he is guided.
Even pagans who sacrifice to God think they have found God and they are upon guidance.
Meanwhile God abhors alot of those sacrifices and their rejection of the Guiding Prophets.
So if that person is lost, which he will be and he experiences the suffering of being lost. Can he really complain when he is choosing to reject guidance?
"I don't need your address, GPS, assistant, I'll do it myself"
Its a strange way of travelling.
@@IAlephI I agreed until falsification of scripture. No such thing. If there is one error in the Bible then it’s false. Bible is Not false.
@@lookup7055
I don't disagree with you.
I'm muslim by the way and I didn't argue the Bible being false, perhaps you misunderstood my comment.
I was saying in theory, a person may falsify the Bible, Holy Quran or any scripture having found errors and contradictions.
(God does not make mistakes or errors)
Having said that a person cannot falsify "All" scripture since there must be one scripture from God that cannot be falsified since that scripture is actually from God.
(In your opinion its the Bible)
Fair enough, however I never made the point that the Bible is false.
Its the standpoint that "All" scripture is false and "I will personally guide myself rejecting God's actual scripture" is the point.
Maybe reading my comment again may make it clear.
Peace.
@@IAlephI
There are so many books, methods, patterns, ways, religions, philosofies, organizations... people in short. Isn't living from oneself valuable enough to let aside all that? It is not to reject but to see every thing what is. Not to follow, memorize, believe, make ideas... escaping from oneself. Thank you. The past is the past. Which doesn't mean that we have to do any thing.
@@chardo24
In that case while we throw every Holy Scripture into the sea, lets throw every book of science as well since you will find alot of books, methods, patterns and so on.
Is it rational though?
I find problems with this religion, scripture, prophet, God or this or that, which means all and everything is false..
Alot of factors go in to why a person does not find an immediate answer but there is always an answer.
Had there been no answer creating us blind would've been just as well.
Is physical seeing more important than spiritual seeing?
I need eyes for a physical trip but not a spiritual trip?
Is getting from my house to a barbar shop a physical trip more important than a spiritual trip?
Is it rational to believe the Creator who gave us a mind to use and eyes to see not bothered about the guidance of humanity?
I'm not trying to push you towards a religion, whatever your belief is or lack thereof is up to you.
However consider this, is it more rational to get guidance from an ignorant source (yourself) or a knowledgeable source (God)?
I just want you to think hard about the God you believe in.
Remember I said earlier how easy it is to make an image, a false god.
Who is the God that you turn to for guidance?
The Creator or yourself?
Allow me to give an example, you and I walk pass a farm and the farmer believes a cow he owns is God (the Creator). He feeds it and turns towards it for blessing the farm and protecting his farm.
Both of us try to convince him that cow is not God and that he is worshipping a false god but he insists.
A natural disaster breaks in to his farm and all his hard work vanishes and he turns to the cow asking it "why didn't you protect my farm?"
The cow is what he turns to..
Who do you turn to for your guidance?
The farmer relies on the cow and you rely on yourself.
"There is no revelation from God, guidance comes from myself".
Your self dictates your guidance instead of following the guidance from the Creator.
Your self is your false god.
False gods lead to blindness, losses and suffering.
Not everyone worships a cow, others worship, statues, human beings, their own desires.
Whatever the false god is, it is deficient.
God is never deficient.
What is deficient cannot be what we rely on /stand on.
We are all that farmer.
Who are we worshipping?
Can the cow or your self or my self or any false god able to guide or protect you like the One True God can?
Below is for my christian trinitarian friends, I would ask the same question I'm asking you.
We should all ask ourselves who is the God we worship.
I'm placing my trust and myself on what exactly?
Mark 10:18
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good-except God alone.
Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Matthew 7:22
Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?'
Matthew 7:23
Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
Matthew 7
24 Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain fell, the torrents raged, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because its foundation was on the rock.
26 But everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain fell, the torrents raged, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell-and great was its collapse!”
We will all see the fruit of our labour and the God we worship.
There is no one on Earth today who has not heard of Christ. Some know almost nothing beyond that He promises salvation, enough to seek more. We are all commanded to find those who are seeking and teach them. Some near, some far.
Yet, in reality, almost none of the people on earth ever heard the Gospel. All they know is Jesus who is a religious figure in Christianity.
Like even here in Finland, the so-called "Christian" country has become so Godless that almost nobody knows the Gospel, especially the youth.
The truth is however, the Gospel is openly, freely and easily available to everyone who is interested. People simply have no interest in it like none of us did until Jesus came to our life and made us re-born into a new spirit that loves and desire God.
What if you hear about Christ, but find that the Christian worldview has inconsistencies?
@@mattr.1887 It doesn't. Like every worldview there are things we do not know but no valid inconsistencies.
@@mattr.1887 What God gives has no real inconsistencies, but when you bring "Christian" into it, you're talking about a giant world religion that is divided by all kinds of inconsistencies. I believe Jesus is real, and His salvation is real. Trusting Him, as one of those babies who have the truth revealed to us (the wise and prudent can turn and become as little children, and the truth will be revealed unto them, too), I find that the difficulties of what was once an inconsistency to me, eventually dissolve, one after another. Being a believing Christian is trusting and knowing a Person, Jesus. Thank God for that!
@@markhorton3994
You really are mistaken Young Boy.
There are people that lived thousands of years before Jesus.
For example:
Native Black Aborigines in Australia.
Native Black Africans in Central Congo
Native Ming Chinese in China
Native Pygmies tribes of Papa New Guinea
Before you open your mouth young boy,
please engage your brain and think properly -
and then formulate a constructive answer which is devoid of emotion and based purely on logic.
That way your assessment cannot he clouded by your immuture emotions young boy
Ok young boy?
Kind regards from an old man.
Always love your content! Both of you! Thank you for sharing!
He meets you where you are, even in dreams.
Also what about people seeking after truth like Socrates, Plato and Aristotle? They grew up believing in Polytheism. They never heard of the God of Israel and definitely not his Son Jesus Christ.
Romans 10:18 But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for “Their voice has gone out to all the earth,
and their words to the ends of the world.”
Romans 3. No one seeks after God. No one comes to the Father except when Jesus draws him. God finds and saves us, not the other way around.
Another disappointing answer to this question.
Listen, let's be real. The exact question is, "what happens to those who have never heard of Jesus? How can they be "saved" if they have never heard about the one to whom their salvation depends upon?" The question is NOT, "what happens to those who don't believe in GOD?" Salvation depends on believing that Jesus is Lord, died on a cross to cover your sins, and rose from the dead. Salvation HINGES on this. Most cultures believe there is some great God of some kind, (well, except modern secular culture). Belief in GOD, and doing good works is NOT the prescription for salvation, (if the bible is to be believed). But, time and time again, all my life, I have seen Christians dodge this conundrum and give the same answer, which is really a non-answer.
This idea that God has predetermined entire nations of people to live in an area that will potentially never have the gospel introduced to them is essentially Calvinism in disguise, and makes it sound like salvation ISN'T actually a choice, but is ALSO predetermined.
Do you not realize how messed up that is?
Listen, I am a conservative person, and I believe in God. I believe there is ONE God, and that God made all we see. But the idea of how we come to "salvation" is logically, empirically, provably wrong. First of all, why did the Hebrew people never once directly talk about all this in the OT? Many modern Christians give long dissertations about how Christ appears in the OT, and superimpose him onto verses. But never once did a Hebrew person get the command to get "saved" by anyone, especially a person. They had faith in God, and that God would protect them and keep them. They were repeatedly told that God is ONE, and had no other before Him.
I am not saying Jesus is a bad thing, but the beliefs that are presented in the NT do NOT line up with everything else. If Christianity is helpful for you, and nets you peace and happiness, then I am all for it. I just don't get how you guys justify everything in the gospel.
The Millennium, most likely plays a role,,, I personally believe this time period is future,,, I know that, as of recent, some claim that it has already came to pass,, , you know, the "dark ages"___ but I digress.......
"I am with you always." There is no waiting.
It may be a period where the gospel is spread without the distraction of satanic deceptions. The OT prophets (check Zechariah 14) seems to indicate unbelievers who survived the great war who must still come to pay homage to God. It's possible God still uses believers at this time to spread the gospel to these nations. I don't claim to understand it all, but those are the descriptions in the text. Even Revelation 21:24-27 seems to indicate a group of pagans who did not involve themselves in the attack on the holy city and who somehow escaped "the mark of the beast" who bring their treasures into the city (similar to Zechariah 14). It's possible there's another whole book waiting to be written after the appearance of the millennial kingdom on earth. There are more striking parallels between OT/NT prophets regarding this kingdom as well, including the river and the tree of lives (whose leaves heal the nations). Maybe the full explanation is part of what was not to be written by John? Stay faithful and let's find out ;)
Why are there so many ghost sightings? Is that supposed to be Hell?, Did they miss the bus to heaven??
A 7 minute non answer
Also - there's nothing to say that when a non Christian loved one is about to breathe their last breath - Jesus Christ himself did'nt with open arms - ask them one more time "I am Jesus Christ. Will you devote the rest of eternity to a life of me as your Lord Master and Savior?" And there's nothing to say that our non Christian loved one didn't answer "Yes". Watch the documentary "After Death " by Angel Studios.
Spot on!
Romans 2:14-15
New International Version
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
I’m not aware of access to any gods. Nor am I able to believe in any as of now. Very cruel to create people without the ability to believe, or the evidence necessary to convince them.
But some people do get saved like Acts 17 describes. There are at least three good examples in the Bible: Cornelius, the Ethiopian eunuch, and the man of Macedonia. All three of them were drawn to Jesus by the Holy Spirit, before they heard. Traditional, often Calvinist, interpreters, tend to suppress this verse, condemning it as teaching that you can be saved without the Gospel. (Actually, they condemn YOU for bringing it up, not the Bible, of course!). But the way it worked in the Bible, is that in every case, God sent someone with the gospel to give the seekers some help: Peter to Cornelius; Phillip to the Ethiopian; Paul to Macedonia.
Calvinism suppresses that Jesus promised to draw ALL men to Himself if He went to the cross. It messes up the system beyond repair, so what Jesus said is suppressed.. Traditional religious types of all theologies tend to think that the Holy Spirit can't be active in a place, until the "True Scotsmen" arrive in country. They accuse that to say otherwise, is to minimize the importance of the Gospel, and bypass the preachers. And after all, Paul said "how will they hear unless there's a preacher?" But just like with the three above, maybe the preacher will come later. And maybe the preacher will be a tract, a radio program, or an online transmission? The problem that remains is that they just don't seem to want to concede that the Holy Spirit does any work in the lives of people, apart from them, and their knowledge, skill and theological education. But if Jesus draws ALL men, as He says He would do, and this drawing is a work of the Holy Spirit, then that is what people can "feel after", as Paul said.
That offends some of them completely, because, sadly, they can't stand to think about there being any "experience" of God, the Holy Spirit, although the Bible teaches completely to the contrary of that bias. People can and do, certainly _feel_ conviction by the Holy Spirit. If God should enter your pagan, or typical American, life, just enough to let you know that He is, and is righteous and good, and whom you need, that would be something you would keep in your heart, and every time such a thing occured, you would "feel" after that. When the time came that you finally heard the gospel, you would know that this was the God you reached after, when you were young, and you'd know that He hadn't forgotten your. It is hard to understand why so many hate this. Are they true Pharisees, or have they just conceded too much of their faith to reason and logic, upbringing, politics, and other fleshly structures and attainments, to the point that they haven't acknowledged that God's work was not just something to piously affirm, but that He was in the center of all of our coming to Him?
At any rate, we ought to all stop condemning and suppressing what the Bible actually says, to uphold some tradition or pragmatic affiliation that we just think we need.
Biblical "free will" : Believe, or go to Hell, the choice is yours.
LOL
Biblical free will : sin then go to Hell. Believe freely, go to Heaven.
@@LucianC137 Serial Killers who converted to Christianity: Karla Faye Tucker: Jeffrey Dahmer: David Berkowitz: Ted Bundy: Susan Atkins: Charles “Tex” Watson: Enjoy their company forever in heaven.
LOL
You don't know if they are a Christian just because they labeled themselves as Christian.
But it's more than "just" believing. The Christian belief (faith) means having a remorseful, repentant, trusting confidence in God's love, mercy and forgiveness.
And, if they truly have a changed heart, then what's the problem? If those that were killed were Christian, then they are with God. If they weren't, they just got early judgement.
Because of the severity of their sins, they have reason to have a greater appreciation and love for God than we do.
It's only a problem if atheism is true. If atheism is true, then they were merely dancing to their DNA.
If God know some people don't accept then why send christians to their deaths in the unbelievers' hands?
I'm so glad God is fair in the afterlife!
Because god isn’t fair in this life
@@reality1958 how? Can you please elaborate. You don’t like free will? You want God to make all the decisions for you? God will guide you but, You would have to want it and ask for it.
@@lookup7055 no I’m fine with freewill. I’m not addressing our will/choices, I would be addressing gods will/choices.
There are multiple problems that could be discussed, but one of the better ones would be designed suffering.
It's not a problem. One of the better blessings for us is the designed suffering. It has eternal benefits for us in many ways.
You've been told that. You just don't want to see that.
@@TheGuy.. only religion can make someone believe suffering is a good thing
"Do what I say or be tortured forever". What a wonderful message.
Rather, listen to what I say, be obedient and see how you will live a peaceable life here, and then, eternal life, so you will not be tortured for ever!
Tormented not Tortured!
@@Philthefisherofmen Torment is just an old word for torture. It can be used metaphorically, like "he was tormented by guilt", but otherwise it's the same word.
@@CarmenVeranda I listen to some very intelligent people. With an IQ, much higher higher than mine. That would disagree with that. I’m going to do some research on those two words. I love research. But I can say this. I have personal experience with being tormented. I don’t have any personal experience with being tortured. I think I like the sound of being tormented better than tortured. But I will research that.
There is no such thing as someone who has never heard about Jesus. Everyone everywhere has at least "heard" general revelation, so everyone everywhere has an opportunity to be saved.
You clearly happen to travel to non-western countries. There are billions of people living today who have never heard of Jesus Christ. Even large countries like China sensor the flow of information. There are Islamic nations where non Muslims are killed so the majority of the population never hear about other religions. Even a country like Japan is majority non-religence so they never meet Christians. It's naive to say that 100% of the 8 billion people on the planet know Christ
After some significant research and having trouble reconciling eternal suffering with Love I am really rethinking hell and many others are also. Even Sean McDowell will have an interview related to this on conditional immortality in the near future. Please check out the folks on RUclips at Rethinking Hell and also Dan Paterson. Something to consider.
Frank flintstone here never heard of original sin?
What if you're too young to understand the gospel, or you have Mental illness, Brain damage, Dementia, Alzheimer's or Retarded? I'm a Christian, but I have always struggled with these questions.
Romans chapters 1-3, where God reveals Himself to all and concludes everyone in sin - both Jews and Gentiles. He gives up those who reject Him the way to save their souls, by grace through faith- like that of Abraham, but now in the sacrificial death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and He continues to deal with those who believe in Him, the same way Abraham chose to do, and was imputed to him for righteousness. Thus He imputes the same justification and righteousness to them, undeserving though they are Chapter 4, as when he was justified simply by FAITH! Chapter 5 leads to hope of the promised glory. Chapters 6-7, show how to live this new life as dead to sin and the law, as they live by Faith like that of Abraham; chapter 8, explain how the Holy Spirit helps to get the believer to receive the promised glory Romans 5:1-2.
John 1:1-18; 1 John 5:11-12.
Thus, everyone gets to decide, everyone gets to choose to seek for the light they saw when they opened their eyes at birth, for the first time.
All they needed to do was to be willing!
God then enables them to find Him by the leading of the Holy Spirit by grace through faith in the sacrificial death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. They must then abide in Him till the end, when He returns to redeem His purchased possession and present them faultless before the presence of God the Father, just as He promised. Matthew 24:13; John chapters 10-17.
How people were saved before the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ, on the cross, His burial and resurrection.
The sinless Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world. His blood was shed for the forgiveness of sins of Adam and Eve and their descendants. Abel offered the sacrifice of a lamb, and his blood gained the life of God, for it spoke, even after His death.
Some of their offspring took matter into their hands, as there was no law stipulating punishment for sins, thus, Cain and Lamech began the mystery of iniquity, which lasted for 70×7 years Genesis 4.
That generation was wiped out Genesis 9, and the laws began with God laying some legal foundation of man to be his brothers keeper and would answer for him.
Noah sacrificed to God after the flood and the blood of the sacrificial animal availed for whosoever would believe God.
Then, everyone turned their back on God, until God found Abraham, who made himself available to God.
Thus, God provided Himself a Lamb- for a generation of Israel, as Abraham had told Issac by faith. Genesis 22:8, since God held Himself accountable for killing the first sacrificial animal, for the salvation of the lost soul of man. God became liable, to righteously judge and condemn Himself, so He got the second person of the Godhead- Jesus Christ, the image of God, that was the model for the creation of man Genesis 1:26-28 (man lost this glorious image at fall, and became as we are today Genesis 5:3).
Until God finishes dealing with iniquity, by paying for it, for loving man, so much, sin will still be evolving.
God made a covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Israel to become His model man, but the devil thwarted His every attempt by manipulating the essence of man and perverting his genetical makeup. Thus, we have giants, werewolves, mermaids, centaurs, minotaurs, dinosaurs, etc.. ( they were all wiped out - Caleb and Joshua and their descendant, King David and his men wiped out the remnants of the giant).
The devil became livid with rage, and proceeds to wipe out all children during the time that prophecy about the salvation of man would happen- Egypt- Moses; Bethlehem- Jesus Christ; and now, worldwide, when the Messiah will return to pick up and ransom members of His body, God's purchased possession, and to become God's ultimate Creation - Jesus, the Head, and regenerated man, His body, to sit at the right hand of God the Father, in heavenly places. (Lucifer used to be the closest being to the throne of God, but now, man, even flesh that he so dispise, will be higher than him, since he was cast out from heaven Luke 10:18-19, and God gave authority to and His glory to man, John 17:22; Isaiah 42:8!
(This is too much for Satan to handle, so he now knows he has limited time to exact vengeance on man, thus, these tumultuous times!).
Since Abraham, Israel went to Egypt, to pay for Abraham's sin by going into Hagar- Sarah's Egyptian slave, for 400 years ( 430, because Moses didn't coordinate with God before acting as the Messiah, so he acted 10 years prior to due time, and spent 40 years in training, and was finally tested at the burning bush, how not to act before God speaks, and to exactly as He commands, no matter how senseless Exodus 4.
Israel got out of Egypt by the blood of the Lamb - a Lamb for a household.
But Moses forgot to ask God what to do with them, but listened to his father in law, Jethro, and brought about God's Jealousy, so He made an unscheduled appearance to Israel, for which they were not prepared. So, Israel rejected God Exodus 19, and this removed the cover they also must now each provide a sacrificial animal for each of their sins or pay with their lives.
Thus, all who died in obedience were kept in Abraham's bosom, from Abel to the thief on the right side of Jesus, that believed in Him.
God had no dealings with everyone else, Deuteronomy 4:19; Ephesians 2:12, and they will be judged by their own conscience, according to their beliefs Romans 2:14-16, and that, by Jesus Christ.
Israel disobeyed God. They sinned and must finish the 70×7 term, outside of the promised land.
Daniel prayed to God to remind Him about the due time, but Israel as a nation wasn't ready.
So, God made him shut the book Daniel 12:4 and brought in the ultimate dispensation of grace to usher in the Kingdom of God among His beloved Israel- as their Emmanuel.
But they had gone back to Egypt as they had threatened Numbers 14; Jeremiah chapters 41-44. So, for them to be forgiven, they must cross the river once again, signifying completely dead to sin, and a new life in God through the Lamb that was coming to pay the ultimate price for sin, as at the beginning- Jesus Christ ( He was taken back to Egypt, so He can trace back the journey for Israel, crossing both the Red sea, and the river Jordan, as the Son of God, and Son of Man Abraham, delivered from bondage of judgment.
That was why God sent Jesus Christ, the express Image of the Godhead, to finish all transgressions. Unfortunately, they rejected and killed Him. So, this ushered in the mystery that God had hidden from the foundation of the world - Jews and Gentiles becoming one in Christ Jesus John 1:12-14; Ephesians 2:14; Romans 8:16-18! Both now, by grace through faith in the sacrificial death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, become the sons and daughters of God, even so, by FAITH!
Anyone who misses this great salvation story will have to pay for their sins by themselves- going through the tribulation and resisting the angry Satan, who will demand their head!
In His righteosness, God made provisions also for this group Revelation 11:2a.
We all get to search for all these things to confirm if it is so or not. Let us not neglect so great salvation of our souls Hebrews 2:3-4!
The scriptures for the dispensation of grace were already shut in Luke 4:17-20, and it was finished on the cross John 19:30. There remains 1 week year for the mystery of iniquity to complete, even Jesus Christ said it Matthew 18:21-22! Then, all iniquity will cease for all eternity. Man will be ransomed, redeemed, regenerated, restored to glory, and reconciled with God!
We are about to complete the cycle of the circle- we are around Genesis 6 at this time, which will usher in the day of vengeance of our God Isaiah 61:2; 63:4; which will lead to chapter 5, during the millennium Isaiah 65, and final judgment Isaiah 66.
Then, back to the new heaven and the new earth, with man, Jesus Christ, sitting at the right hand of God, where no flesh can ever be!
Satan and his minions become a spectacle for those pilgrims that must now go yearly to Jerusalem, and now, they can observe the sabbath of God, which was completed in Christ Jesus Colossians 2. He became the rest, or Sabbath for whosoever would believe God through Him, in this dispensation! Hebrews chapters 3 and 4!
Take a long overdue REST, IN JESUS CHRIST!
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Romans 1 [20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
They already know about God and they are born with morals. Romans 2 [14] For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
[15] Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
It kind of goes against total moral depravity doesn't it?
But the apostle that penned those words is Paul and like the Lord advised the Jews to follow Moses things have changed after the cross. 1Cor.11[1] Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. He says in
2 Cor. 5
[14] For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
[15] And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
[16] Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
[17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
[18] And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
[19] To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
[20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
[21] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
We are ambassadors to spread the word of reconciliation. Which is Rom.5 [10] For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Col.1
[20] And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Phil. 3
[9] And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
[10] That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
[11] If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Gal 2
[20] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
[21] I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
The good news of the gospel is that we were subject to eternal death but now by faith we are made eternally alive. That is the reconciliation that ambassadors are to share. 2 Tim. 2 NKJV says to separate the kingdom gospel in which there is everlasting life from the gospel of reconciliation, grace. Salvation is now apart from Israel and it's law of Moses which make demand that we do not have. In Acts 15 the two do meet.
People who ask this question are usually atheist or of other religion: these have the desire to justify in their own righteousness.
Anyone could read into the bible.
Nobody yet had been able to answer this question every time they talk themselves into a conundrum. You're saying God wants everyone to hear the gospel more than anyone yet if feels your rejection in your heart he is going to give up trying to get the gospel to you therefore you'll never hear it and die from your sins. That doesn't work and it contradicts. This question is a serious problem for Christianity and ive yet to hear a good argument, this one is no different on this video.
Nothing necessary for humans is ever introduced to us by humans. If we need it, you will never get it from man. The bible is given to us by man
People have heard of Jesus, all religions talk about Jesus, he’s just not as important to them, as he is to us.
Absolutely nothing can be more contradictory than being love justice and mercy and giving eternal suffering.
How? God is very merciful, eternal suffering is a choice. You have the free will to choose eternal life.
@@lookup7055
Free will is made up. We have a will, that is for sure that this will is not free, it is in bondage. Most people, because of their corrupted nature cannot follow God the proper way.
And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?” 1Peter 4:18
“Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Luke 13:24
@@nikokapanen82 you don’t have free will? You think it’s easier to do right than bad? Free will is choosing Not to crash into the car next to you when you’re in road rage. Choosing what is right is harder, which is where one needs free will.
@@lookup7055
I have a will but my will is not free, I am only doing what my nature allows me to do. Choosing not to crash into a car next to you is not free will, it is just a natural will to live that most people have. However, most people do not have a nature that desires God.
@@nikokapanen82 as someone who loves God and believes in free will, I say, since you’re not ignorant to who God is, I will respect your choice not to believe.
Never try to fill a theological gap with philosophy. Never ever.
Romans 10:14-15 says:
But how will people call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how will they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?
I love Frank and Alisa! It’s funny to me that Frank disagree with Calvinism but basically everything in this video is what a reformed person would say, that we go to hell because we sin, not because we didn’t hear the gospel, that God ordains when and where people live, we should still preach the gospel and that he will get people the gospel who need to be saved, but that we know God is just and nobody will get a raw deal in hell because they don’t want to be saved. Well the Bible says nobody wants to be saved, that no one seeks for God because we’re dead in our sin and love darkness, but God in his great love and mercy regenerated and saved many of us. Just a little bit further Frank! 😉
NOOOOO!!! ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Not only does the question betray an unexamined theological commitment to Autonomianism - the unBiblical idea that becoming Christian is nothing more than a matter of ‘mere (volitional) belief’ - some ‘free will’ commitment to the things of God, but also sadly, here you in fact admit to the exact same error!
The TRUE Christian is not a Christian because he believes - rather, BECAUSE he is a Christian, he believes - BIIIIIG DIFFERENCE! The former holds man out as ‘sovereign’, whereas the latter recognises God as absolutely sovereign over absolutely all things, including (in fact, especially), the salvation of man…
“When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honoured the word of the Lord; AND ALL WHO WERE APPOINTED TO ETERNAL LIFE BELIEVED” - Act 13:48
In other words… BELIEF (in the Hebrews 11 sense - what we understand as ‘FAITH’) is the CONSEQUENCE of God’s sovereign act of salvation - it is not CONDITIONAL thereto! SOMATIC BELIEF (what springs from the mind of man) implies an act of WORKS (Rom 9:16), whereas DEIFIC BELIEF (supernaturally given by God - ie ‘faith’) is entirely a supernatural endowment which God imputes unto His own (Eph 2:8,9) - the former gives man cause to boast (which denies God His glory), whereas the latter exalts the Lordship of God!
The demons believe (Jas 2:19)! And tragically, those who’se ‘faith’ commitment amounts to nothing more than somatic belief, are only doomed to hear those dreadful words of Jesus… “Get away from me you evildoer - I never knew you (as the Father’s own)” - Mat 7:21
Sin (please do a proper Biblical exegesis of the subject!) is NOT A MORAL INFRACTION as you suggest - rather, sin is an ONTOLOGICAL CONDITION - it is separation from God (or the extent to which we fall short of properly reflecting the image of God to which we were created)!
And the Law is NOT A MORAL IMPERATIVE as you suggest - it is God revealing something of himself to His own!
We SIN because we are SINNERS - we are NOT SINNERS because we SIN - another BIIIIIG DIFFERENCE!
Moreover, your aberrant rendering of Romans 1:18ff fails to recognise that it is not because the one who is spiritually dead in his trespasses and sins (Eph 2:1) stubbornly refuses to believe - rather, it is because not only is he UNWILLING to believe (Jhn 5:40), but he is utterly UNABLE to believe (Jhn 12:39,40), only because “the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God” - 2 Cor 4:4
Balaam did not recognise the angel of the Lord because he was unwilling to see - he COULD NOT see the angel of the Lord - it was only when the LORD (not Balaam) opened his eyes that he was able to see the angel of the Lord standing before his very eyes…
On the road to Emmaus, the disciples only came to recognise the risen Lord when Jesus gave them (spitiritual) sight - Luk 24:16&31
God’s own have been given the capacity to believe ONLY because it is HE (not the sinner) who, like Lydia (Act 16:14), opened their hearts and removed the veil that prevents them seeing the glory of God in Christ (Jhn 11:40)!
Not only does your Autonomianism do violence to the gospel (that bit between Gen 1:1 and Rev 22:21), but it also places you on the horns of an epistemological dilemma - if salvation were entirely an act of man ‘(freely) choosing to believe’ (WHAT exactly he believes and WHY he believes, I really don’t know - neither do you), then what about the little soul that is stillborn, or the infant whose intellective capacity has not as yet developed to be able to discern between right/not right, or the mentally incapacitated, or…
So, why am I a Christian? I really have no idea! But thanks be to God (Eph 1) - to Him be all the glory!
Amen
there are no pre-determinists in heaven
Time you questioned the theology of 'hell' Alisa. This is way off. Have you not read that in the early church there were six schools that taught theology? Four taught Universalism, one taught a 'modified' Universalism, and the last taught what you appear to be embracing -- hell for unbelievers. Not only church history, but a number of scriptures stand in opposition to what Frank is saying.
This was basically seven minutes of not answering the question. I found Frank Turek confused and confusing. He's a former Catholic who left the true faith for Protestant mix-and-match. Playtime is over, Frank: time to come home.
I did not watch, no need! Salvation means to heal, deliver, holy means set apart! These words are but symbols of things spoken into communication. So the good news ( gospel) is not a magic word but a communication to a being to help them to understand who they are! Not what they perceive to be! Jesus the word means GOD IS SALVATION! Christ the word means anointed, anointing! The truth of who you are! So through hearing this a person can understand things not seen but be healed, delivered from the suffering of their ignorance of seperation from the truth of within themselves! There is one spirit, one God, in all and through all that gives them their being! What ever you call it, doesn’t change that it is the same force which is LOVE! Within ALL
In saying maybe people who don't hear the gospel would have believed anyway, Frank isn't addressing the promise in Scripture that some people from EVERY nation, tongue, and tribe would be saved. He seems caught up in exact wording of her question rather than the spirit of it. He seems to have a chip on his shoulder about SOMETHING. Just saying, and I AM a believer and channel subscriber.
1:15 LOL, what a disappointing answer, esp from a guy like Turek. Apparently he is not aware that most of the world never heard of Yahweh prior to Christ, just like most continued to never hear of either of them for many centuries after Christ!
Yahweh was a Jewish tribal God. He was never intended to be a universal God. There is reason why Jews never had missionaries and still don't to this day. The only exception is Jews for Judaism, and they mainly reach out to ethnic Jews who are involved in or considering Christianity.
Point is...most of the planet at that point had still never heard of Yahweh!
This video makes perennialism tempting. Not a satisfying answer at all
Smug Frank Turek is speaking nonsense. The Bible is basically just a Story Book and should be treated as such
𝐩𝓻Ỗ𝓂Ø𝓈Ｍ 😒
Skeptics question Gods fairness but do not understand that if God was fair we all be in hell
If God is fair I have one question. If God knew who is not going to accept the message, why all don't God throw them in hell when they are born. Why does god let chrostian missionaries die in their hands?
This has to be one of the most self-contradictory videos I've ever heard. If God has already decided who will accept and who will reject, why evangelize? If God's existence is obvious from nature, then there can't be any unbelievers. If Jesus personally visits people to convince them, then why do you need to go do it? These two speakers just contradict their own statements.
We proclaim the gospel because Jesus commanded us to. We don't save anyone, we're just the instrument God uses to spread the gospel. It's not up to us to decide who God will save.
Roman's 2:14. EVEN THE GENTILES, WHO DONT KNOW GOD, WILL MAKE IT, IF THEY LIVE THE LAW BY INSTINCT. Jesus will OK them. Jesus said, all law is sumed up to, love others as you love yourself, and love God. That's it, you do not have to know God to be saved. You will get to know him during the 1000 year reign. Jesus will OK folks, who don't know him, because character is the deciding factor. There r no cops in heaven. If you can't police yourself, then you don't get a pass. That's why Roman's 2:14 says even those who don't know God, can make it, if they live the law by INSTINCT. So there you have it.
But how can they love God if they don’t know God?
Has it occurred to you that this is all nonsense ?
I love your reply. That is the Gospel He just lays it out there and lets us decide what we want to do with it.
Wow. This is a horrific apologetic.
True, not necessarily appealing. It is difficult question though, have you found any better responses?
@@Patrickgsouza not really. But the most generous answer is that God will judge people based on whatever knowledge they had. But “those who never hear would never be saved anyways” is horrible because why create those people who will not be saved in the first place?
@@Patrickgsouza We all came off the ark from Noah and the knowledge of God initially went everywhere.
The native Americans in this hemisphere came from the Middle East and the gospel from Asia Minor was brought here across the ocean in the same manner, long before the Europeans of the 1600’s.
What people have done with the gospel since then is another issue, but the word has gone out.
Frank Turek: If you Lie, you are a LIAR.
Just like Jesus. LOL.
John 7:8-10 "You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come." After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee. However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret.
LOL
You are misrepresenting (lying) or mistaken.
Look at vs 4. The context was that His intention was to not go "openly", to not make a public display of Himself for His time had not yet come. In this, He kept His word.
@@TheGuy.. CAN you point to the verse where he went wearing a Halloween mask so that he was not recognized ?? LOL
Bible Fundie Dictionary:
Taken out of Context: (n): Read directly from the text.
LOL
@@sanjeevgig8918 I don't believe there was Halloween yet back then. He must have found another way to stay unnoticed.
Sounds like you are trying to find fault in the Savior.
I have never heard of any Bible fundie dictionary. That definition looks screwed up.
But when you read a couple of verses in isolation, it's easy to not grasp the context. That's what you did.
@@TheGuy.. "He must have found another way to stay unnoticed."
You have NO EVIDENCE of this. You just make shyttte up as you go. You are just like Jesus in one way. A LIAR.
LOL
@@sanjeevgig8918 And the Halloween mask wasn't made-up?? You are making up this fault.
If we are critiquing the passages, then the evidence is vs 4. I didn't "make-up" that verse. It existed long before I was born.
His brothers challenged Him to go to Judea and do "the works" that He was doing. He obviously still had other objectives to complete first.
I could be mistaken, that doesn't make me a liar. I'm just giving you my perception of what I'm reading.
From the context, you aren't showing any evidence that He was lying. If John hadn't included the context for Jesus going in secret, then you may have a point :)
Since Christ decided not to reveal himself to all of his creations, many will end up in Hell forever and ever.
This is all part of His Divine Perfect Plan.
What a load this guy