13:32, Yeah, it really is. You could probably start on that, it looks like you have some paper sitting under those motors on your desk, you could even start drawing up a schematic for it right now!
@@laurenz6231 But a weather balloon doesn't shoot plasma out of its back. That could produce some trouble, especially with low power systems like LoRaWAN
Since the mass of a rocket grows with the cube law, but area (and thus drag force) grows with the square law, big rockets have less of a problem with drag force.
@@KastanDay Vmax, Super Thunder or Warp9 will be required for a sure shred. And not in end-burn configuration. I've always been partial to the K2045, but a G250 will be a good start.
@@IOwnThisHandle nonono, you're reading it wrong. The question here is "what did it cosine you to build it?", to which the answer "yes" makes a lot more sense, as this naturally means the solution to cos(cost) = positive That's quite a usefull answer, because it eliminates half of the possible solutions. edit: "answers" to "possible solutions"
Geez as soon as you explained the problem with using PID when you didn't have a constant thrust from the motor my brain started churning. I KNEW that the instrumentation you have onboard could solve that problem and at 6:50 in the video I yelled out loud OF COURSE YOU CAN SOLVE FOR THRUST BECAUSE YOU KNOW THE ACCELERATION. I love it when you get to do useful shit with all those physics equations we programmed into our TI83s in college to cheat on the test
Joe, you’re part of the reason I joined my Student Launch team. You’re a big inspiration, and every time I watch these videos, I just want to go out and develop a rocket just like that
"It would be really cool if I like, had something that could do that, um, like on the way, and parts ordered, but I don't have that right now." Gesticulates wildly at schematics of "that" sitting on desk.
I am 53 and I am going back to school just so I can folllow the math you have been rattling my brain with! It is so cool to have something that gets me interested in higher math!! (that and I want to understand the math in building my own ac/dc pure sine wave inverrter)
Flag question, I was under the impression that flags on aircraft and rockets should point in the direction of normal air flow. Not a big deal, but it keeps catching my eye and looking unexpected.
No RUclips clout lost in my view. Came for the result stayed for how you managed it. Such a niche of fun informative RUclips channel actually explaining the engineering behind it. Great vid as always and congrats!
So very cool I remember going to LDRS 3 in a field in Ohio in the eighties when I was a little kid. I used to know the original owners of Loc Persision, North Coast Rocketry and Stargate Rocketry which was my father's company. My family were some of the 1st members of Tripoli. I am now 43 and it brings back so many cool memory watching. I am amazed at what is being done and amateur rocketry nowadays.
Im Italian, the 'capisch' killed me 😂😂 But very nice video, I love your personality, your videos are so nice to watch.. plus you learn something? Really great stuff man!
So, I bought all of the equipment to do a similar project back in January. I plan to build a TVC mount and train deep neural networks to fly it (I'm a data scientist). Kind of like an onboard pilot, but instead of a human, it's an AI who's entire brain is dedicated to the act of flying and who's neurons work at 2Ghz.... I will make videos detailing the process. I think that an AI approach will significantly aid in the landing process (which is what I intend to focus on). Particularly in the realm of visually tracking towards an intended landing site. Joe, as a Space Camp alum (and "Right Stuff Award" recipient) who sadly never ended up going into aerospace, this channel has been a MASSIVE inspiration. This is like living a dream all over again. Much appreciated, sir. Now I'm isolated at home with all of these materials and microcontrollers/sensors.... what to do with all of this downtime? Haha
Just a tip with filming to reduce the noise/graininess in the image while filming in the dark: reduce the iso and lower the f stop to let more light in. There's a balance that you can find between iso and aperture to get good exposure and reduced image noise. I loved the video. Inspiring as always.
Q: How would you keep track of the telemitry for 1Km and beyond... A: some form of syncronus communication similar to 5he videos on how a Raspberry Pi can transmit video over 10Km. Transmitter on send inly on known channel, reciever set on listen only mode. It potentially can be done with nrf21n1 with whip antennas, the ESP32s would be a better option as it could do encryption on the data as it transmits. Keep up the progress, if I was going to discuss this at partirs, they would be Virtual as the only virus I could get is potentially a python script.
Your idea of building a controller around the torque, that's the way how we've got teached to set up a control loop. The first step is to describe your system in diff. equations. Reduce it to a first order system, solve it numerically or feed it into your PID Control.
Pro tip on tracking - stabilize the camera and follow it with a mirror, camera pointing away from the launch at the mirror. Much more gentle movements and easier to manage
Have you thought about using a cascade PID controller? One that has the orientation as the process variable with thrust as the control variable which feeds into a PID as the process variable and outputs angle as the control variable. That way you don't need to calculate with the vehicle mass etc. The 1st stage PID will dynamically adapt to changes in the vehicle characteristic. I'm not a rocket guy, so I might be missing something fundamental that means this wouldn't work..
I hope the economy problems don't effect you to much. Since you're doing some good work, by helping bring some tech down to everyman level. I've had my issues, and lost a goal i was working towards. But atleast I can fall back onto my engineering experience to shift over to a new field and goal. Anyways hope things go good for you.
Long range telemetry can be achieved using LoRa and some directional antennas. Easy. You can't stream all of the data (your 4kHz) but it will atleast be able to TX enough to give you updates of about 5Hz. You could average the values in between transmissions and then send them down. For antennas you could use a yagi antenna as they are smaller and easier to handle.
ps: i'm a 3d certified designer, i'm too poor for paying patreon but i have a lot of spare time now that i'm in the middle of the Italy Redzone locked in my garage, so if you want i can free design the tower with flame diverter, crew arm and water for sound suppression
You say "I am not a propulsion guy" but you never were a rocket engineer either and still you're making these awesome rockets. I think you should try to learn it the same way you learned to build rockets. Anyways thank you for doing this, you inspired me and I would like to do the same things you do in the future. Good luck with the next flight.
Mate, your deviation from Echo to Sprite to Sprint has not stopped me from watching every video you've put out, as soon as I possibly can, (usually within the first hour or 2). If it flies, we'll watch it, if it explodes, we'll watch it, if it lands, by god we'll watch that too.. Nice subtle gestures in the final minute too.. wonder how many people caught that..? ;) Look forward to a Sprite with Echo legs.. :)
4:10 I see you didn’t have the guts or insane skillz to actually balance a broom or a pen like I did in our latest video 😜 Also the Q and A segment was really cool! I hope it features more!!
Awesome channel! I’m involved in the DIY quadcopter and long-range fixed-wing drone building community and the speed of development in that hobby has been quite mind-blowing. I can certainly see a similar potential here for model rockets and this new way you’re building and flying them with thrust vectoring and adding in control software and flight computers. A lot of people will be interested in building these types of rockets, for sure. There are some comparisons here to how flight control software has revolutionized quadcopters in such a short time. It might be quite fun to add into your rockets some long-range video equipment to get a live feed and on-screen flight data in real-time. You could add something comparable to Betaflight OSD to give you live on-screen flight data (speed, altitude, range, and GPS coordinates). It’s pretty cheap to get this equipment and fairly straight forward to add-in with a bit of research. If you use 5.8ghz video equipment the antennas are small and could be embedded inside the rocket too. I get about 5km of video range on my 5.8ghz FPV setup. It would be fun to combine some of these developments into model rockets. Anyway, great work! I might have to build myself some rockets now, lol.
Is the moment arm calculation static or will it adjust dynamically based on the real time center of mass of the rocket? Would assume as propellant is burned the rocket's center of mass would change
You could work on a liquid fuel motor for this rocket, so it could land like echo, also you could make it controllable to make the landing occur better then echo did
What if you found the midpoint of the local minimum and maximum of the TVC angle plot, and used it to set the initial position of the TVC mount at launch? i.e. If, shortly before burnout, the TVC was oscillating between +2° and -1.5°, set the initial position of the TVC at 0.25°, the midpoint of the two extremes, and compensate for the misalignment.
Wondering how well the Sprite software would go in a vehicle designed to operate in a vacuum, such as a mini-probe for landing on asteroids, perhaps replacing the EDF with a Cold Gas Thruster.
I just stumbled across your YT channel (I'm new to YT). I'm binge wotching! I built a canard-based vertical stabilization system (VSS) on an 8 foot, 75mm rocket generally launched on J motors. I learned a lot about aerodynamic "torque coupling" between the canard and the tail fins but that is a long story. Currently I'm working on a small rocket to space (above the Karman line). By small I mean a maximum O total impulse or less than 40960 Ns. I've tested an upper stage 75mm motor with 12kNs total impulse and I'm working on a 127mm 28kNs booster (nozzle failures). I've always been concerned by the pitch deviation due to low altitude winds at launch (thus the VSS work). These can cause a very large horizontal deviation which make getting FAA, Tripoli, et al permission to launch not to mention reducing the likelihood of ever finding or recovering the rocket. Your video has re-energized my vertical stabilization interest. If you are interested in my project I'd enjoy sharing. Keep up the good work. Stan
“I’m not a propulsion guy,“ says Joe Barnard of Barnard Propulsion Systems.
Someone print that on a T-shirt and send it to this man!
@@VikMilligan-wv9ym that's avionics not propulsion
I bet the people that unlike are flat earthers. :)
I wish it could like this but its at 420 likes.....
@@boweneveritt3400 why did you like its at 421
The level of snark/sarcasm was fantastic. Made me laugh. Great flight! Looking forward to the 1km flight
13:32, Yeah, it really is. You could probably start on that, it looks like you have some paper sitting under those motors on your desk, you could even start drawing up a schematic for it right now!
How do you make that propellants?
@@ELAI_aerospace he bought them on the internet
He could use LoRa. We did this on a school project, launching a wheather ballon into the stratosphere
@@laurenz6231 But a weather balloon doesn't shoot plasma out of its back. That could produce some trouble, especially with low power systems like LoRaWAN
Since the mass of a rocket grows with the cube law, but area (and thus drag force) grows with the square law, big rockets have less of a problem with drag force.
I can't help but feel there's some sort of hidden message in this video...
Anyways, too bad about not having a flight telemetry computer
so, it wasn't just me..? heh ;)
...he says as he puts his phone down.
"Shredding the rocket would be pretty cool" - Joe Barnard
I've flown high impulse L motors in 4 inch cardboard, no shreds. I don't fear the H13.
I think he just craves the mental relief of shredding it....
@@KastanDay Vmax, Super Thunder or Warp9 will be required for a sure shred. And not in end-burn configuration. I've always been partial to the K2045, but a G250 will be a good start.
This is just more proof he’s an Elon Musk clone.
I've shredded several 75mm carbon fiber N-motor rockets (due to aerodynamic instability...) at Mach 2.4 to 2.7, It creates some amazing artifacts!
what did it cos you to build it ?
"yes"
It was my question LOL
Was adding a 't' to your cost too much to ask for?
Lol too much, I don’t want to know either
@@IOwnThisHandle nonono, you're reading it wrong. The question here is "what did it cosine you to build it?", to which the answer "yes" makes a lot more sense, as this naturally means the solution to
cos(cost) = positive
That's quite a usefull answer, because it eliminates half of the possible solutions.
edit: "answers" to "possible solutions"
This is true for almost any hobby of flying things, ESPECIALLY fpv drones.
"I'm not a propulsion guy..." Ok, Mr. B.. 'P'..S. I'm sorry, I know you've called yourself out on this before, but still, kinda funny :P
The most true thing Ive ever heard.
"What did all this cost you?"
hobbyists of flying things: yes
Geez as soon as you explained the problem with using PID when you didn't have a constant thrust from the motor my brain started churning. I KNEW that the instrumentation you have onboard could solve that problem and at 6:50 in the video I yelled out loud OF COURSE YOU CAN SOLVE FOR THRUST BECAUSE YOU KNOW THE ACCELERATION. I love it when you get to do useful shit with all those physics equations we programmed into our TI83s in college to cheat on the test
Oh hey it's that milk guy
No he looks a lot like Elon musk
Hi I'm Mr milk
Joe, you’re part of the reason I joined my Student Launch team. You’re a big inspiration, and every time I watch these videos, I just want to go out and develop a rocket just like that
"It would be really cool if I like, had something that could do that, um, like on the way, and parts ordered, but I don't have that right now."
Gesticulates wildly at schematics of "that" sitting on desk.
Tremendous improvement in TVC amplitude this time. Great work man, keep doing what you're doing! Your editing in Prem Pro is excellent too.
This is a really amazing rocket, can’t wait to see what comes out of BPS in the future!
Aaaaah, if only we could look forward to such an amazing rocket... 1km, sick magi computer setup...
But alas, seems like there's only dreams :P
Thanks Joe, loved the show and the tech talk.....happy to be a sponsor...cheers!
What you have created is impressive. How you deliver the information is impeccable. Your flag is upside down. 'Field forward'.
Planet Earth: please give Joe Barnard whatever he needs for his work, because this is too cool to slow up. Signed, BPS RUclips channel subscribers.
aight imma head out
yeeT
LOL. I laughed at that harder than I probably should have.
12:30 this question he added up himself and just made a tease to what is going to come
Honestly, Sprite got me more involved with your channel, and I bet I’m not alone on that. Very interesting!
I think this is the best BPS launch yet! Sprint flies great!
Love the multiple shots of the launch and feedback control talk!
I am 53 and I am going back to school just so I can folllow the math you have been rattling my brain with! It is so cool to have something that gets me interested in higher math!! (that and I want to understand the math in building my own ac/dc pure sine wave inverrter)
Flag question, I was under the impression that flags on aircraft and rockets should point in the direction of normal air flow.
Not a big deal, but it keeps catching my eye and looking unexpected.
No RUclips clout lost in my view. Came for the result stayed for how you managed it. Such a niche of fun informative RUclips channel actually explaining the engineering behind it. Great vid as always and congrats!
So very cool I remember going to LDRS 3 in a field in Ohio in the eighties when I was a little kid. I used to know the original owners of Loc Persision, North Coast Rocketry and Stargate Rocketry which was my father's company. My family were some of the 1st members of Tripoli. I am now 43 and it brings back so many cool memory watching. I am amazed at what is being done and amateur rocketry nowadays.
Keep up the great work nerd!!! This information is really great and your excitement when you talk about it make it fun to watch.
This guy's good, you didn't lose any "youtube clout" in my eyes
I’m a big fan of your videos Joe! I’m inspired by your knowledge and passion for these launches!
I really appreciate that you do most of your launches during blue hour. They always look fantastic!
Oh hell yeah! that gimballing and no more over-correct. *NICE*
Fantastic launch! Fantastic progress!
I love your sense of humor! Thank you! I needed to laugh today!!
The purple color of the exhaust right on startup is beautiful
Watching that thing work and gimbal is a thing of art!
when i see joe post a video, ight imma head in
Im Italian, the 'capisch' killed me 😂😂
But very nice video, I love your personality, your videos are so nice to watch.. plus you learn something? Really great stuff man!
I am excited about the same details you are! Thank you soo much for sharing!!
Cool that you made the control more fundamental and therefore more robust.
So, I bought all of the equipment to do a similar project back in January. I plan to build a TVC mount and train deep neural networks to fly it (I'm a data scientist). Kind of like an onboard pilot, but instead of a human, it's an AI who's entire brain is dedicated to the act of flying and who's neurons work at 2Ghz.... I will make videos detailing the process. I think that an AI approach will significantly aid in the landing process (which is what I intend to focus on). Particularly in the realm of visually tracking towards an intended landing site.
Joe, as a Space Camp alum (and "Right Stuff Award" recipient) who sadly never ended up going into aerospace, this channel has been a MASSIVE inspiration. This is like living a dream all over again. Much appreciated, sir.
Now I'm isolated at home with all of these materials and microcontrollers/sensors.... what to do with all of this downtime? Haha
Stunning documentation mate! Keep up the good work 👍🏻... I'm going to binge watch all these videos now
it's refreshing to hear someone who speaks English as in tech lingo... not race or country... well done, looking forward to more of your videos...
Just a tip with filming to reduce the noise/graininess in the image while filming in the dark: reduce the iso and lower the f stop to let more light in. There's a balance that you can find between iso and aperture to get good exposure and reduced image noise.
I loved the video. Inspiring as always.
Q: How would you keep track of the telemitry for 1Km and beyond...
A: some form of syncronus communication similar to 5he videos on how a Raspberry Pi can transmit video over 10Km.
Transmitter on send inly on known channel, reciever set on listen only mode. It potentially can be done with nrf21n1 with whip antennas, the ESP32s would be a better option as it could do encryption on the data as it transmits.
Keep up the progress, if I was going to discuss this at partirs, they would be Virtual as the only virus I could get is potentially a python script.
12:37, @BPS.space is that how you came up with the idea of AVA?
You are one smart fella. With a great sense of humor!
pixhawk 2.1, it's make for drones, but you can write specific commands for any purpose and set up esasly telemtry and gps
Your idea of building a controller around the torque, that's the way how we've got teached to set up a control loop. The first step is to describe your system in diff. equations. Reduce it to a first order system, solve it numerically or feed it into your PID Control.
The Q&A section was just ... perfect.
Absolutely Love the powersliding!
Much more stable than last flight. Great job Joe !!
you are geting REALY GOOD with that thrust vector control
A lot less over correction on the thrust vector mount . GREAT JOB
Pro tip on tracking - stabilize the camera and follow it with a mirror, camera pointing away from the launch at the mirror. Much more gentle movements and easier to manage
12:31 the whole time i couldn't tell if joe was joking or not
I still can't. It could be within his reach to do colab with greg and build a custom SoC on Fpga.
It almost sounds like he is hinting towards a sponsor XD
Launch your cellphone - it has much of what you described perhaps bluetooth to the other control items or just can/usb wires.
klosskopf der1. As cool as that would be, why would you need a custom soc?
Its easier to tell when you understand what he is saying
I so love the attitude lol and great work there btw Joe, always a thrill watching your videos bud. cheers
Outstanding camera coverage of the launch!
Thats super fascinating bro! I love to watch that!
What about Echo btw? Will it fly again?
From an interest in music to ….. THIS!!! You are amazing, sir. TVC and a mass-wheel, in a frig'n toy rocket?!!!!
Have you thought about using a cascade PID controller? One that has the orientation as the process variable with thrust as the control variable which feeds into a PID as the process variable and outputs angle as the control variable. That way you don't need to calculate with the vehicle mass etc. The 1st stage PID will dynamically adapt to changes in the vehicle characteristic. I'm not a rocket guy, so I might be missing something fundamental that means this wouldn't work..
I hope the economy problems don't effect you to much. Since you're doing some good work, by helping bring some tech down to everyman level. I've had my issues, and lost a goal i was working towards. But atleast I can fall back onto my engineering experience to shift over to a new field and goal. Anyways hope things go good for you.
Long range telemetry can be achieved using LoRa and some directional antennas. Easy.
You can't stream all of the data (your 4kHz) but it will atleast be able to TX enough to give you updates of about 5Hz. You could average the values in between transmissions and then send them down.
For antennas you could use a yagi antenna as they are smaller and easier to handle.
wow, nice launch! that flew beautiful, and thanks for the laughs.
Super cool , best model rocket ever built. it only needs a new pad
ps: i'm a 3d certified designer, i'm too poor for paying patreon but i have a lot of spare time now that i'm in the middle of the Italy Redzone locked in my garage, so if you want i can free design the tower with flame diverter, crew arm and water for sound suppression
What a beautiful evening for a launch!
Now that's called an amazing flight
Wow!!! Huge improvements!! Straightened out so gooood!!!!
Really good Trigonometry approach, I coincidently thought that I could use some trigonometry for TVC Control. 4:20 Great Job!
Oh wow! That was an excellent launch!! That gimbal really makes an excellent work.
Always love watching your videos. Keep up the incredible work.
You say "I am not a propulsion guy" but you never were a rocket engineer either and still you're making these awesome rockets. I think you should try to learn it the same way you learned to build rockets. Anyways thank you for doing this, you inspired me and I would like to do the same things you do in the future. Good luck with the next flight.
Nice. Much better.
Thanks,
John
Huge improvement over Flight #1! Way to go!
Mate, your deviation from Echo to Sprite to Sprint has not stopped me from watching every video you've put out, as soon as I possibly can, (usually within the first hour or 2).
If it flies, we'll watch it, if it explodes, we'll watch it, if it lands, by god we'll watch that too..
Nice subtle gestures in the final minute too.. wonder how many people caught that..? ;)
Look forward to a Sprite with Echo legs.. :)
10/10 snark level. Love it and great flight! I did hear the torque wheel on the first playthrough and was hoping you'd say something about it!
Amazing explanation! Long live torque!
Muito legal mesmo, vou fazer um desse para disputar a MOBFOG ☺️🥴
Idk, but to me this was the prettiest flight. Smoooooooth flight
A torque based controller will be much more accurate. Just make sure you have some type of feedback control.
Joe, I really liked the recent videos! I don’t care about no video for a few weeks, sometimes things just need a break for whatever reason
Man I love this channel. Keep up the good work!
4:10 I see you didn’t have the guts or insane skillz to actually balance a broom or a pen like I did in our latest video 😜
Also the Q and A segment was really cool! I hope it features more!!
early bird gets to see the worm fly
Only the second mouse gets the cheese
What
Awesome channel! I’m involved in the DIY quadcopter and long-range fixed-wing drone building community and the speed of development in that hobby has been quite mind-blowing. I can certainly see a similar potential here for model rockets and this new way you’re building and flying them with thrust vectoring and adding in control software and flight computers. A lot of people will be interested in building these types of rockets, for sure. There are some comparisons here to how flight control software has revolutionized quadcopters in such a short time.
It might be quite fun to add into your rockets some long-range video equipment to get a live feed and on-screen flight data in real-time. You could add something comparable to Betaflight OSD to give you live on-screen flight data (speed, altitude, range, and GPS coordinates). It’s pretty cheap to get this equipment and fairly straight forward to add-in with a bit of research. If you use 5.8ghz video equipment the antennas are small and could be embedded inside the rocket too. I get about 5km of video range on my 5.8ghz FPV setup. It would be fun to combine some of these developments into model rockets.
Anyway, great work! I might have to build myself some rockets now, lol.
Oh my gosh that was so much better than the first flight. :)
wow that launch vector recovery was smooth and fast!
Turn tracking cam on its side... track cars from side of road... tweak adjustments.
you should use an rfd 900x I use it on my large autonomous drone for distances over 10 km. It has built-in hardware encryption and is pretty cool.
Is the moment arm calculation static or will it adjust dynamically based on the real time center of mass of the rocket? Would assume as propellant is burned the rocket's center of mass would change
You could work on a liquid fuel motor for this rocket, so it could land like echo, also you could make it controllable to make the landing occur better then echo did
What if you found the midpoint of the local minimum and maximum of the TVC angle plot, and used it to set the initial position of the TVC mount at launch?
i.e. If, shortly before burnout, the TVC was oscillating between +2° and -1.5°, set the initial position of the TVC at 0.25°, the midpoint of the two extremes, and compensate for the misalignment.
Plot twist : He is actually building a new flight controller and is just giving us a secret message
I mean yeah, he made that pretty obvious.
I love your work man.
That vector control made my day.
That pendamic anxiety attack was a glitch in simulation, please continue as normal everything is fine and under control for now.
Thank god you are getting success
Wondering how well the Sprite software would go in a vehicle designed to operate in a vacuum, such as a mini-probe for landing on asteroids, perhaps replacing the EDF with a Cold Gas Thruster.
I just stumbled across your YT channel (I'm new to YT). I'm binge wotching!
I built a canard-based vertical stabilization system (VSS) on an 8 foot, 75mm rocket generally launched on J motors. I learned a lot about aerodynamic "torque coupling" between the canard and the tail fins but that is a long story.
Currently I'm working on a small rocket to space (above the Karman line). By small I mean a maximum O total impulse or less than 40960 Ns. I've tested an upper stage 75mm motor with 12kNs total impulse and I'm working on a 127mm 28kNs booster (nozzle failures). I've always been concerned by the pitch deviation due to low altitude winds at launch (thus the VSS work). These can cause a very large horizontal deviation which make getting FAA, Tripoli, et al permission to launch not to mention reducing the likelihood of ever finding or recovering the rocket. Your video has re-energized my vertical stabilization interest. If you are interested in my project I'd enjoy sharing. Keep up the good work.
Stan
Thanks! Great job as always.