To Mike and the whole Iowa crew : Thank you for a very informative video presentation of the challenges facing Iowa's long term preservation, in particular the high cost and lack of suitable drydocks on the west coast. I was fortunate to be able to take the first day of drydock tour of New Jersey and for a ship 81 years old found the underwater hull to be in very good shape. She is very fortunate to be in a freshwater location and to have Drydock # 3 at the Philadelphia Navy Yard nearby. What a serious mistake by the Government to close the Long Beach Naval Shipyard and destroy their drydocks. The Navy is paying the price now with long wait times for ship repair and the negative impact on fleet deployments. Your plan as proposed appears to be the only viable course of action as outlined in your presentation. Thank you for all your continuing efforts to save and improve Iowa !
Deeply disanointing that we as a country have lost so much of our shipyard capabilities. This is a national security matter and as such should be national priority to restore these capabilities.
This is unfortunate, by the time anybody figures out she NEEDS to be dry docked somewhere, Iowa will be as run down as Texas was. 😞 Iowa's wind and waterline was already in way worse shape than New Jersey's and New Jersey is sitting in a fresh water river. Salt water is WAY more caustic... I don't see this ending well.
are you going to pay for the dry docking fee. if done correctly it will prevent further damage. its simply a matter that she's too fat for almost every single drydock. if it was a DD it would be a different story
While in their recent drydock, BB62 pressure tested all of her sea chest covers, and found several leaking or in various stages of failure. Also, I believe they found and repaired some significant degradation in the skegs. Did you guys visit BB62 and gain any insight into the types of issues that could be being overlooked on BB61 without drydock?
I had the same questions. Gate vales don't hold forever even when laid up dry. I was thinking myself what the plan would be to address that. Maybe put a larger patch over the current one on the outside?
I think you're right. The cofferdam solution is brilliant. It still only puts off the inevitable. The entire underwater coating system will eventually need to be done. Shaft seals, sea chests, and mild steel shell plating is a real worry. Repair bills only get bigger the longer you put them off, and the originality of the ship only happens once. I did the drydock tour of BB62. There was no advanced corrosion from 1990 till now. You can thank fresh water for that. The corrosion evident from 82 to 87 was extensive. Just about the entire hull looked like the surface of the moon. Even the bottom of the hull had pitting. Lots of clad welding repairs.
@@jimmiles33 Yeah, I can see how a quick weekly phone call can replace actually walking under an Iowa and seeing the potential damage with you eyes. And plus you save a plane ticket.
This is an excellent perspective, that I hope gets underlined a bit. New Jersey had very little corrosion development since its life began as a museum. It also has the benefit of mostly freshwater and did not need much hull repair, but the leaks that were discovered in the blanks are certainly something that any Iowa class ship needs to keep in mind. New Jersey discovered most of these with their dry docking, and while Iowa certainly has valid reasons for not being dry docked, the wind/waterline is not the only thing that needs to be monitored. Shaft packings, sea chests, and the system of coatings all will eventually need maintenance in someway. The team with Iowa will need to keep this in mind long-term as well, even if dry docking isn’t the solution to the problems.
Now thinking about it The lack of open California drydocks that are big enough, really screws over Iowa, Hornet, Midway and Queen Mary since they're the biggest museum ships in California
Yeah, totally. When donating these ships I doubt they look what they will need 20 years in the future. But yet they have a generic clause in the donation agreement that the ship needs to be kept in good condition. How can you possibly do that for Midway? I know the Navy threatened North Carolina with scrapping in place if the museum didn't address the hull corrosion.
@robdog1245 Nonsense Queen Mary was fully inspected and found to have lost very little steel thickness. The city took back over operations of the ship and had a big renovation project that just finished a few months ago and is now open to the public again. You can go and get the latest from Alex The Historian youtube channel.
@@zachradoux2038But Queen Mary is also completely walled in by a rock breakwater, so there’s no way to get the ship out of there without some heavy work moving those rocks.
Dang. BB61 was the last BB to be a museum and the only one of the sisters to not have a drydock available nearby. It seems with all of the drydocks listed, theres a need on the west coast and a demand for that capacity commercially.
If anyone is interested in seeing what used to be there at Long Beach with the Naval Base and Naval Shipyard, go to RUclips and search Huell Hawser’s tour of both of those facilities he did just prior to their closure in the late 1990s. The late Mr Houser was well known to California residents for the many years of places all over California that he would visit and report on. His videos he did on these, shows the dry docks and the naval base that used to be right around the corner from where USS Iowa is now.
I love the NJ and was a very early supporter when we thought it was going to Bayonne , Nj. Still have my license plates somewhere Nj made to raise funds . Brian does a great PR job and lots of historical knowledge . But this guy knows what he is talking about when engineering topics come up ! If you really want to help the Country and the Iowa as a byproduct , call your congressman and get the shipbuilding industrial base back !!! The largest port in the US Long Beach / San Pedro has No Drydocking facility for full size ships . We barely have enough shipyards to do normal maintenance Much yet war repairs .
It sounds like when they decided to place Iowa somewhere for museum purposes, it wasn't very well thought out in terms of what her maintenance needs in the future. USS New Jersey was well thought out when they placed her.
@@gunhog11 It is true. In the video, he lists all the places nearby that aren't suitable, accessible, or available. It's easy to see they didn't put much thought into where to place USS Iowa. If you look at New Jersey and Wisconsin, both are in places where they can be serviced and very accessible to those services. Hornet and Midway sit in the mud I believe he said. The mud will preserve the bottom end for decades like USS North Carolina which sits in mud.
You should contact your local senator if there are no serviceable shipyards anymore. There needs to be more drydocks, for obvious current political world events.
Poor Iowa, she seems to be the hard luck sister, I hope she can be saved long term but without drydocking she will wind up as bad as Texas was which will drive the cost way up if and when she gets into one.
After New Jersey's dry docking and her exceptional good hull condition. It makes sense in the short term. Sounds like Portland and Vigorous are the future for Iowa drydocking. Wonder if a elastomeric coating for treating the waterline/windline.
Living just across the river from Portland, I'd LOVE to see her come here for a drydocking. It'd certainly help make up for not having any museum ship nearby!!
@@cruisinguy6024still had wastage on the bottom plates towards the bow that needed doubling; leakage into the rear skeggs via the prop shaft inspection covers; and they found some blanking plates that were leaking, though.
@@wurlycorner I didn't say she was flawless and received no water damage, but it would have been much worse had she spent the last 30 years in salt water. Not only that but she's had the wrong anodes on her hull until her recent dry docking which further contributed to some of her hull damage.
I wonder how helpful the state has been. A good chunk of the reason the USS New Jersey was able to afford Dry Docking is the result of a $5m grant from her namesake state. Shame she’s the only Iowa located in her namesake state, I feel like that may become a growing issue for Wisconsin and Iowa.
Plus, its just down the river from the shipyard it went to. Also, it's the shipyard it was born in and reactivated in. It went to the same drydock it has been in since WWII, they still operate that particular drydock. Camden NJ is a craphole, where she's berthed, but a smart choice in terms of logistics.
Sadly if the Navy has to step in, in the event of major leaks or damage 20 years down the road the ship will be scrapped! When ships are donated one of the key requirements is they must stay floating. As Ryan pointed out the Navy does not have money for the active fleet let along a ship left to a group that said they could maintain it! In all fairness Hornet is still afloat and has been in the same spot 30 years.
Really interesting, thanks for putting this together and for sharing on here also. It's clear there is a lot of thought and analysis that's gone into the options for preserving the hull and there is a lot of good work being done - particularly on the wind/waterline, for example. I think the presentation gives the impression there are no real risks or downsides from not dry docking Iowa though ('everything is going to be just as fine without it, dry docking really isnt needed') which is going too far. It's undeniable that dry docking is the best solution and the only one that can guarantee the best long term condition of the ship. There are things that simply cannot be known or dealt with, without doing so. The response about the blanking plates/sea chests not being a concern at all, was particularly one area for example - NJ had one they knew had failed prior to dry docking and they found some more that had failed, once there. When eventually Iowa is dry docked (at, say 30-40 years), the resulting bill will likely be huge as a result of the defferal. The presentation compared the potential costs of dry docking now versus annual 'in-berth' work at $150-300k/annum. It would be interesting to understand what the cost analysis has suggested in terms of how the cost of increased repair work that will be needed in a future substantially deferred dry-docking, versus the cost of two dry docks if the '20-year' periods were maintained - and is there money being set aside to build up the funds for that?
New Jersey is lucky with Phila right down the river. Just up the coast in NYC around 10 years ago the Intrepid went into Drydock just across the Hudson River from where she is docked presently. (The drydock is in Jersey City) at the former MOTBI Terminal where 3 of 4 Iowa's were Mothballed in the late 40's back then across from where Iowa was built Brooklyn Navy Yard.
Wisconsin too. The Norfolk Navy yard and the Northrup Grumman yard is only a few miles away from her. Both have docks that can handle a ship that size, they regularly drydock carriers there.
@@josephpadula2283 I used to have to pick up wrecked cars for my Dads business in the 70's at MOTBI on the piers when they came off the Navy ships (he had the contract for all totaled service personal cars wrecked in Europe.) One time I had to go and there was 3 ships being loaded for a huge Military excersise in Germany M 60's, personal carriers, 5 ton Trucks etc. it was an unforgetable experence. I was just a kid. It now is the cruise port for RCI cruises and a ship repair.
@@ronstucker3550 Oh yes . Any idea how much we spent to build that navy pier that was never used ? I was an officer in the Navy at the time and there was a report that said do Not build there as it was not a protected location from storms . Well it was never used by any ship !
How to say you don't want to do a dry docking without saying you don't want to do a dry docking. I live in Iowa and am dismayed at this decision. Every year the longer this is put off the more expensive remediation becomes. Grants, loans, donations, preservation funds, fundraising. If they wanted to do it they'd do it. Wishful thinking but Shoulda towed the darn thing up the Mississippi to Burlington, Davenport, or Dubuque in its home state for museum status.
Spot on, sir! Either this guy is full-of-it and Iowa will need to be dry docked in the next 20 years _and they should start planning now_ or he's right and there is no need to dry dock and he should outright say that. "We don't need to, we won't need to and it would be a waste of money for us to dry dock." It's got to be one or the other.
@x--. if it really doesn't need done right now then what's the plan for when it does? His lack of substantive info leads me to think they have no real tangible plan. Failing to plan is planning to fail. It took BB62 how many years of planning and raising funds before they did hers? Maybe Iowa should start now to plan 10 years out. Don't get me wrong I'm happy and impressed with stuff they are doing but it will be for naught if the hull corodes away.
@@michaelclark3544 excellent questions. That's my big question, what about inspections? That didn't seem to make the talk but it seems critical. And, the follow-up, is he saying the Iowa will not need dry dock outside of a catastrophic accident?
@x--. my initial gut reaction to what was said in the video is they have no plan. They're kicking the can down the road hoping nothing catastrophic happens. Cause nothing will be done until then. Can the schedule or book a time 5+ years down the road so they have time reserved? Then they have a date funds need raised by? I just read an article yesterday about the State of Iowa's actual budget reserves. It's something like $7.8 billion with a B. $20 million is a drop in the bucket and heck even $5-10 mil would go a long way to getting the ball rolling.
US adds 4.5million dollars of debt per minute. It would take like 3 min to fund a drydocking. Lots of stuff can be trimmed from the budget. Wish we could take care of our history
Isn’t the carrier Yorktown up in Charleston basically wasting away below the wind/water line with numerous hull corrosion and water intrusion problems? And she sits on the bottom also, correct?
BB62 had a suitable yard around the corner and they made sure their artefact is now safe for at least the next 20 years. Iowa should go to drydock too, but i see your problems. Money should be one of the lesser ones, Navy, state and sponsors might help out! But having NO yard available at the westcoast is a damn problem.
Ryan was likely correct in that it was a once in a lifetime opportunity, and maybe last time it could ever happen with safety regulations and insurance making it hard to do tours.
Fascinating presentation, sounds like good information but how do you do a full inspection of the hull with it in the water? Was that addressed? Without a full inspection of the hull how likely is catastrophic corrosion or other damage? $300k/yr vs $20-mil/20yrs it seems obvious the $300k is the better option *as long as you aren't ignoring or missing major issues*
Um, there are at least two commercial dry docks big enough for the Iowa located in San Diego. One of those dry docks is currently occupied with construction of a navy auxiliary ship but the one next to it is empty. Yes, they are surrounded by Navy ships but the dry dock must be privately operated due to the construction of a ship and the US Navy doesn't build its own ships.
I am surprised and sadden to hear that Iowa won't be drydocked. I'm sick to my stomach to see how much of our shipbuilding capacity has fallen. It's shocking how many jobs were lost due to this reduction in our shipbuilding. If we're able to build the Ford class aircraft carriers in the drydock they have in Norfolk, Virginia, we should more west coast based drydocks for building and maintaining them and the Iowa.
California purposely drove out all the heavy industry in the state, including shipbuilding, out of environmental concerns. Instead of working with businesses to help make those industries cleaner, our state government simply said they aren’t welcome here and so they all left. Aerospace, shipbuilding, steel production, manufacturing and fabrication of every variety; it’s all gone. Even the farms and dairies are mostly gone. All that’s left for jobs in Southern California is warehouses and fast food.
Had Long Beach NSY (and Naval Base) not been completely demolished and flattened into a container storage yard next door, your ability to drydock would’ve been easier than New Jersey in terms of conveniently located. BRAC 1995 (and 1991 for the Naval Station) were very shortsighted in that regard.
well the largest Dry Dock I was destroyed when they built that Long Beach container facility at the old Long Beach Naval Shipyard what a loss. I think Bremerton is the only large dry doc on the West Coast.
Never been to Cali so I didn’t know, hopefully y’all will have resolution soon. I enjoy the Iowas saw Wisconsin a few years ago when we went north to Virginia for vacation from Florida I’d hope that Iowa doesn’t wind up like Texas where it’s many millions of dollars to fix. I’ve seen Alabama, Wisconsin, and North Carolina planning on a trip to Yorktown in Carolina.
I am thinking that a non-metallic version of your mini-one person-coffer-work-pen could serve as and electrolysis tank. it could remove corrosion, and re-apply a more suitable alloy; could it not?
WOW my assumptions are all wrong. I assumed there would be a shipyard in SoCal that could handle BB61, and the Navy would help, time permitting . We are lucky private industry took over the ship building facilities when they closed the Philadelphia Shipyard.
I’m absolutely disgusted with the state of our shipyards in America. The government should look to build a few new ones for building new ships and make money from restorations but hey everyone else gets Americans money but us. 😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡
And then there’s the issue of who do you get to staff new shipyards? Currently, even the existing shipbuilding facilities have workforces that are aging out. Young people are not going into the trades that are necessary for expanding future shipbuilding let alone restaffing existing facilities. 🤷🏻♂️
For those that criticize, frankly, what other choices does BB-61 have? Mike played out the details? Seriously, what alternatives are there? And who’s going to pay for these alternatives? 🤷🏻♂️
That's not fair. The truth is the public and politicians need *clear* communication. This guy it saying Iowa does *not* need to be dry docked to maintain a good condition. That's his explicit message so _why would_ politicians or the public want to put up the money? Either it *does* need it or it *doesn't* and he absolutely has to be clear on that. If he's lying and it's really a problem of money then has an obligation to be honest -- He should be saying we are doing the best we can with what we have but we absolutely need to dry dock in the next XX years to have the best chance at preservation. You can't have it both ways.
@@x--. The trouble is you need a “public and politicians” in California that care. BB Iowa just doesn’t have the same relationships with the public and CA politicians that, say, BB New Jersey has. And the state of Iowa has already forked over plenty over the years for an asset they can’t even enjoy in their own state. So, again, who’s going to pay for it?
@@glennac it seems like they're not even asking. They could ask the city, county, both states and vet orgs. Are they applying for grants? Did they ask their state senators? It looks like they don't and so they've adopted a sort of scarcity mindset. They need a compelling ask, like: We must drydock Iowa within X years to preserve her. We need X dollars and we have set aside X dollars. Can you help us with this major expense? What would it take to get your support? Otherwise she may ______(insert realistic end)______ so please help, kthxbye. For what it's worth, I never visited because it's just so expensive compared to other opportunities (City of Long Beach is finally taking care of QM so don't tell me there is no money).
You guys need to take a page out of New Jersey’s book. Social media takes some effort but can be a good money maker. Posting a guy doing a power point presentation with horrible audio is not the way to do things in the 2020s. You obviously have some smart and articulate people. Iowa deserves better than this.
@@wurlycorner I'm an avid amateur historian and particularly like 20th century military and political history. RUclips has opened a new world of sources to learn new things. The video format provides the opportunity to present archival videos that bring history to life and allows me to go places like museum ships that I otherwise couldn't see. I'm glad you enjoyed that video; I didn't. It was like watching a video someone captured on their iPhone. The PowerPoint presentation pales in comparison to Ryan Szimanski's presentation of the various aspects of the USS New Jersey and its historical context. I think the USS Iowa team could do better.
Pay for it now or more later comes to mind. Without the docking the bottom of the ship will at some point become an issue and it will be a real shame to see the lead ship in the condition of the USS Texas pre drydocking in 30 years. It also is a shame the required docks are not around anymore, also with the needs for war it means the Navy is not ready to even handle the active fleet in the Pacific. While the burden can't be handled by your State or org. alone a drydock needs built to handle her and other ships of her size on the west coast. If I had it my way the Navy needs three new full service shipyards with such drydocks and building slips. One on each coast and the third in the gulf. I would justify it with a new modern nuclear powered Battleship class that is a hybrid of the arsenal concept forward and a downsized landing assault carrier aft. It would have at least twice the missile loads as the current missile cruisers and a hanger for 4-6 Vstol/Helicopter craft plus a well deck for special ops. The big 16" guns would be replaced with smaller energy or railgun weapons with similar impact with a 5-15lbs slug (and no powder bags). These new yards need to stay NAVY owned but should be permitted to contract for commercial work to offset cost in peacetime and with a new class of 6 Battleships and other large classes like our carriers, a steady bit of Navy work as well. Some upgrades for such a new investment in yards I would want the drydocks to have in the base of the side walls both view ports and underwater lighting plus fixtures for some underwater cameras. This would reduce the need for divers like NJ needed to position her. Also I would like to see an improved keel bock design with a jacking screw with a wedge jack between two base layers of concrete. With NJ they mulched the tops of several to remove them to replace metal on the bottom. With a 4-6 inch jacking in the base, blocks could be moved without destroying the tops. Also a few blocks could include brackets for cameras too. Considering the hostilities of China and growth of their Navy we need to be able to match their ability to build even if we chose to only use a fraction of that ability. After Pearl Harbor, most the fleet was refloated and repaired/upgraded both there and on the west coast. Today it seems only VA has the docks to do such a job with our largest ships and leaves the Pacific fleet not ready for major damage control. Without a docking at some point the Iowa will have structural issues with her bottom and may reach a point that the best option may become pouring concrete around her hull turning her into a building not unlike the HMS Victory supported by external wood frames in a drydock forever turned basement never able to float again.
Have they considered looking at the Great Lakes with Duluth Harbor Duluth has the largest inland port in the world what if they have what the Iowa needs?
The Soo Locks maximum width is 75 feet. Iowa is 108+ feet wide, let alone the dead-ship tow through the Panama canal, up the east coast and down the St. Lawrence.
To Mike and the whole Iowa crew : Thank you for a very informative video presentation of the challenges facing Iowa's long term preservation, in particular the high cost and lack of suitable drydocks on the west coast. I was fortunate to be able to take the first day of drydock tour of New Jersey and for a ship 81 years old found the underwater hull to be in very good shape. She is very fortunate to be in a freshwater location and to have Drydock # 3 at the Philadelphia Navy Yard nearby. What a serious mistake by the Government to close the Long Beach Naval Shipyard and destroy their drydocks. The Navy is paying the price now with long wait times for ship repair and the negative impact on fleet deployments. Your plan as proposed appears to be the only viable course of action as outlined in your presentation. Thank you for all your continuing efforts to save and improve Iowa !
Deeply disanointing that we as a country have lost so much of our shipyard capabilities. This is a national security matter and as such should be national priority to restore these capabilities.
But the White House has no problem giving hundreds of BILLIONS to Ukraine and Israel.
This is unfortunate, by the time anybody figures out she NEEDS to be dry docked somewhere, Iowa will be as run down as Texas was. 😞
Iowa's wind and waterline was already in way worse shape than New Jersey's and New Jersey is sitting in a fresh water river. Salt water is WAY more caustic... I don't see this ending well.
are you going to pay for the dry docking fee. if done correctly it will prevent further damage. its simply a matter that she's too fat for almost every single drydock. if it was a DD it would be a different story
Iowa should have never been taken to a place without proper dry docks
While in their recent drydock, BB62 pressure tested all of her sea chest covers, and found several leaking or in various stages of failure. Also, I believe they found and repaired some significant degradation in the skegs.
Did you guys visit BB62 and gain any insight into the types of issues that could be being overlooked on BB61 without drydock?
I had the same questions. Gate vales don't hold forever even when laid up dry. I was thinking myself what the plan would be to address that. Maybe put a larger patch over the current one on the outside?
I think you're right. The cofferdam solution is brilliant. It still only puts off the inevitable. The entire underwater coating system will eventually need to be done. Shaft seals, sea chests, and mild steel shell plating is a real worry. Repair bills only get bigger the longer you put them off, and the originality of the ship only happens once.
I did the drydock tour of BB62. There was no advanced corrosion from 1990 till now. You can thank fresh water for that. The corrosion evident from 82 to 87 was extensive. Just about the entire hull looked like the surface of the moon. Even the bottom of the hull had pitting. Lots of clad welding repairs.
The museums talk weekly.
@@jimmiles33 Yeah, I can see how a quick weekly phone call can replace actually walking under an Iowa and seeing the potential damage with you eyes. And plus you save a plane ticket.
This is an excellent perspective, that I hope gets underlined a bit. New Jersey had very little corrosion development since its life began as a museum. It also has the benefit of mostly freshwater and did not need much hull repair, but the leaks that were discovered in the blanks are certainly something that any Iowa class ship needs to keep in mind. New Jersey discovered most of these with their dry docking, and while Iowa certainly has valid reasons for not being dry docked, the wind/waterline is not the only thing that needs to be monitored. Shaft packings, sea chests, and the system of coatings all will eventually need maintenance in someway. The team with Iowa will need to keep this in mind long-term as well, even if dry docking isn’t the solution to the problems.
went to N.J. in dry dock what an experience.
Me too. Fantastic, worth every penny.
I went as well. One of the best experiences in my life!
Now thinking about it
The lack of open California drydocks that are big enough, really screws over Iowa, Hornet, Midway and Queen Mary since they're the biggest museum ships in California
Yeah, totally. When donating these ships I doubt they look what they will need 20 years in the future. But yet they have a generic clause in the donation agreement that the ship needs to be kept in good condition. How can you possibly do that for Midway? I know the Navy threatened North Carolina with scrapping in place if the museum didn't address the hull corrosion.
@robdog1245 Nonsense Queen Mary was fully inspected and found to have lost very little steel thickness. The city took back over operations of the ship and had a big renovation project that just finished a few months ago and is now open to the public again. You can go and get the latest from Alex The Historian youtube channel.
California is a captured state it is owned by globalist losers to worried about sucking up to China.
@robdog1245 Queen Mary doesn't sit on the bottom, she floats, she moves up and down with the tide
@@zachradoux2038But Queen Mary is also completely walled in by a rock breakwater, so there’s no way to get the ship out of there without some heavy work moving those rocks.
Dang. BB61 was the last BB to be a museum and the only one of the sisters to not have a drydock available nearby. It seems with all of the drydocks listed, theres a need on the west coast and a demand for that capacity commercially.
Most states have to much red tape and it doesn’t matter that it impedes national security.
If anyone is interested in seeing what used to be there at Long Beach with the Naval Base and Naval Shipyard, go to RUclips and search Huell Hawser’s tour of both of those facilities he did just prior to their closure in the late 1990s. The late Mr Houser was well known to California residents for the many years of places all over California that he would visit and report on. His videos he did on these, shows the dry docks and the naval base that used to be right around the corner from where USS Iowa is now.
I love the NJ and was a very early supporter when we thought it was going to Bayonne , Nj.
Still have my license plates somewhere Nj made to raise funds .
Brian does a great PR job and lots of historical knowledge .
But this guy knows what he is talking about when engineering topics come up !
If you really want to help the Country and the Iowa as a byproduct , call your congressman and get the shipbuilding industrial base back !!!
The largest port in the US Long Beach / San Pedro has No Drydocking facility for full size ships .
We barely have enough shipyards to do normal maintenance
Much yet war repairs .
The USS New Jersey spent 1 yr in the dry dock at Long Beach Naval Shipyard in 1981.
It sounds like when they decided to place Iowa somewhere for museum purposes, it wasn't very well thought out in terms of what her maintenance needs in the future. USS New Jersey was well thought out when they placed her.
If that were true, wouldn’t that apply to Hornet and Midway also?
@@gunhog11 It is true. In the video, he lists all the places nearby that aren't suitable, accessible, or available. It's easy to see they didn't put much thought into where to place USS Iowa. If you look at New Jersey and Wisconsin, both are in places where they can be serviced and very accessible to those services. Hornet and Midway sit in the mud I believe he said. The mud will preserve the bottom end for decades like USS North Carolina which sits in mud.
You should contact your local senator if there are no serviceable shipyards anymore. There needs to be more drydocks, for obvious current political world events.
Poor Iowa, she seems to be the hard luck sister, I hope she can be saved long term but without drydocking she will wind up as bad as Texas was which will drive the cost way up if and when she gets into one.
After New Jersey's dry docking and her exceptional good hull condition. It makes sense in the short term. Sounds like Portland and Vigorous are the future for Iowa drydocking. Wonder if a elastomeric coating for treating the waterline/windline.
New Jersey has had the good fortune of being in fresh water. Undoubtedly her hull would have been much worse in salt water
Living just across the river from Portland, I'd LOVE to see her come here for a drydocking. It'd certainly help make up for not having any museum ship nearby!!
@@cruisinguy6024still had wastage on the bottom plates towards the bow that needed doubling; leakage into the rear skeggs via the prop shaft inspection covers; and they found some blanking plates that were leaking, though.
@@wurlycorner I didn't say she was flawless and received no water damage, but it would have been much worse had she spent the last 30 years in salt water. Not only that but she's had the wrong anodes on her hull until her recent dry docking which further contributed to some of her hull damage.
I wonder how helpful the state has been. A good chunk of the reason the USS New Jersey was able to afford Dry Docking is the result of a $5m grant from her namesake state. Shame she’s the only Iowa located in her namesake state, I feel like that may become a growing issue for Wisconsin and Iowa.
The State of Iowa gave several million dollars to the USS Iowa foundation to get her out of mothballs and to LA.
Plus, its just down the river from the shipyard it went to. Also, it's the shipyard it was born in and reactivated in. It went to the same drydock it has been in since WWII, they still operate that particular drydock. Camden NJ is a craphole, where she's berthed, but a smart choice in terms of logistics.
When she starts to look like a screen door, call Phill and seal it with Flex Paste. Until then, keep up the good work.
Sadly if the Navy has to step in, in the event of major leaks or damage 20 years down the road the ship will be scrapped! When ships are donated one of the key requirements is they must stay floating. As Ryan pointed out the Navy does not have money for the active fleet let along a ship left to a group that said they could maintain it! In all fairness Hornet is still afloat and has been in the same spot 30 years.
Likely a ton of lessons learned from New Jersey's dry docking this year.
Really interesting, thanks for putting this together and for sharing on here also.
It's clear there is a lot of thought and analysis that's gone into the options for preserving the hull and there is a lot of good work being done - particularly on the wind/waterline, for example.
I think the presentation gives the impression there are no real risks or downsides from not dry docking Iowa though ('everything is going to be just as fine without it, dry docking really isnt needed') which is going too far. It's undeniable that dry docking is the best solution and the only one that can guarantee the best long term condition of the ship.
There are things that simply cannot be known or dealt with, without doing so. The response about the blanking plates/sea chests not being a concern at all, was particularly one area for example - NJ had one they knew had failed prior to dry docking and they found some more that had failed, once there.
When eventually Iowa is dry docked (at, say 30-40 years), the resulting bill will likely be huge as a result of the defferal. The presentation compared the potential costs of dry docking now versus annual 'in-berth' work at $150-300k/annum. It would be interesting to understand what the cost analysis has suggested in terms of how the cost of increased repair work that will be needed in a future substantially deferred dry-docking, versus the cost of two dry docks if the '20-year' periods were maintained - and is there money being set aside to build up the funds for that?
New Jersey is lucky with Phila right down the river. Just up the coast in NYC around 10 years ago the Intrepid went into Drydock just across the Hudson River from where she is docked presently. (The drydock is in Jersey City) at the former MOTBI Terminal where 3 of 4 Iowa's were Mothballed in the late 40's back then across from where Iowa was built Brooklyn Navy Yard.
Wisconsin too. The Norfolk Navy yard and the Northrup Grumman yard is only a few miles away from her. Both have docks that can handle a ship that size, they regularly drydock carriers there.
Motby means Military Ocean Terminal Bayonne.
That is why the dry dock is in Bayonne , Nj not Jersey city …..
Just next town over but still.
@@josephpadula2283 I used to have to pick up wrecked cars for my Dads business in the 70's at MOTBI on the piers when they came off the Navy ships (he had the contract for all totaled service personal cars wrecked in Europe.) One time I had to go and there was 3 ships being loaded for a huge Military excersise in Germany M 60's, personal carriers, 5 ton Trucks etc. it was an unforgetable experence. I was just a kid. It now is the cruise port for RCI cruises and a ship repair.
@@josephpadula2283 I saw Iowa every time it came to NY in 80's 90's was supposed to be Home Ported on Staten Island.
@@ronstucker3550
Oh yes .
Any idea how much we spent to build that navy pier that was never used ?
I was an officer in the Navy at the time and there was a report that said do Not build there as it was not a protected location from storms .
Well it was never used by any ship !
How to say you don't want to do a dry docking without saying you don't want to do a dry docking. I live in Iowa and am dismayed at this decision. Every year the longer this is put off the more expensive remediation becomes. Grants, loans, donations, preservation funds, fundraising. If they wanted to do it they'd do it.
Wishful thinking but Shoulda towed the darn thing up the Mississippi to Burlington, Davenport, or Dubuque in its home state for museum status.
Spot on, sir! Either this guy is full-of-it and Iowa will need to be dry docked in the next 20 years _and they should start planning now_ or he's right and there is no need to dry dock and he should outright say that. "We don't need to, we won't need to and it would be a waste of money for us to dry dock." It's got to be one or the other.
@x--. if it really doesn't need done right now then what's the plan for when it does? His lack of substantive info leads me to think they have no real tangible plan. Failing to plan is planning to fail. It took BB62 how many years of planning and raising funds before they did hers? Maybe Iowa should start now to plan 10 years out. Don't get me wrong I'm happy and impressed with stuff they are doing but it will be for naught if the hull corodes away.
@@michaelclark3544 excellent questions. That's my big question, what about inspections? That didn't seem to make the talk but it seems critical. And, the follow-up, is he saying the Iowa will not need dry dock outside of a catastrophic accident?
@x--. my initial gut reaction to what was said in the video is they have no plan. They're kicking the can down the road hoping nothing catastrophic happens. Cause nothing will be done until then.
Can the schedule or book a time 5+ years down the road so they have time reserved? Then they have a date funds need raised by?
I just read an article yesterday about the State of Iowa's actual budget reserves. It's something like $7.8 billion with a B. $20 million is a drop in the bucket and heck even $5-10 mil would go a long way to getting the ball rolling.
I was stationed at Long Beach when they dry docked Missouri and New Jersey. Shame that's gone.
We agree!
After watching that whole video what I'm left with is, there is no plan.
😢
US adds 4.5million dollars of debt per minute. It would take like 3 min to fund a drydocking. Lots of stuff can be trimmed from the budget. Wish we could take care of our history
Isn’t the carrier Yorktown up in Charleston basically wasting away below the wind/water line with numerous hull corrosion and water intrusion problems? And she sits on the bottom also, correct?
BB62 had a suitable yard around the corner and they made sure their artefact is now safe for at least the next 20 years. Iowa should go to drydock too, but i see your problems. Money should be one of the lesser ones, Navy, state and sponsors might help out! But having NO yard available at the westcoast is a damn problem.
West coast is crawling with people that hate their country and do not care about history at all that’s why they are repeating it.
Ah man, I thought I could go on a drydock tour of the Iowa since new Jersey was too far away for me.
Sorry. We'd love to see IOWA out of the water, but as you can see, it's just not much of an option for us right now.
Ryan was likely correct in that it was a once in a lifetime opportunity, and maybe last time it could ever happen with safety regulations and insurance making it hard to do tours.
Fascinating presentation, sounds like good information but how do you do a full inspection of the hull with it in the water? Was that addressed?
Without a full inspection of the hull how likely is catastrophic corrosion or other damage?
$300k/yr vs $20-mil/20yrs it seems obvious the $300k is the better option *as long as you aren't ignoring or missing major issues*
Wherre is Ryan Szim... oh, wait... wrong ship.
You're lucky the raw sewage content of the costal water out there reduces the salinity enough that your dock intervals can be way longer.
Most of it is on the sidewalks now.
@@Jaysqualityparts thats what I'm talking about. That stuff goes right into the storm drains and into the ocean untreated.
Frankly, I have no confidence that this overly complicated "continuous maintenance" strategy will be kept up with.
Um, there are at least two commercial dry docks big enough for the Iowa located in San Diego. One of those dry docks is currently occupied with construction of a navy auxiliary ship but the one next to it is empty. Yes, they are surrounded by Navy ships but the dry dock must be privately operated due to the construction of a ship and the US Navy doesn't build its own ships.
I am surprised and sadden to hear that Iowa won't be drydocked. I'm sick to my stomach to see how much of our shipbuilding capacity has fallen. It's shocking how many jobs were lost due to this reduction in our shipbuilding. If we're able to build the Ford class aircraft carriers in the drydock they have in Norfolk, Virginia, we should more west coast based drydocks for building and maintaining them and the Iowa.
California purposely drove out all the heavy industry in the state, including shipbuilding, out of environmental concerns. Instead of working with businesses to help make those industries cleaner, our state government simply said they aren’t welcome here and so they all left. Aerospace, shipbuilding, steel production, manufacturing and fabrication of every variety; it’s all gone. Even the farms and dairies are mostly gone. All that’s left for jobs in Southern California is warehouses and fast food.
Had Long Beach NSY (and Naval Base) not been completely demolished and flattened into a container storage yard next door, your ability to drydock would’ve been easier than New Jersey in terms of conveniently located. BRAC 1995 (and 1991 for the Naval Station) were very shortsighted in that regard.
Yeah, we'd be really happy if that option were open to us!
Don’t worry. If you guys wait long enough to do basic maintenance on the hull, the ship will dock itself on the bottom of the San Pedro channel.
well the largest Dry Dock I was destroyed when they built that Long Beach container facility at the old Long Beach Naval Shipyard what a loss. I think Bremerton is the only large dry doc on the West Coast.
Dunno why they don’t do like NC and make a temp dam around the ship to do repairs
Hard to do in Los Angeles main channel. We'd bottleneck shipping in the busiest port in North America.
Never been to Cali so I didn’t know, hopefully y’all will have resolution soon. I enjoy the Iowas saw Wisconsin a few years ago when we went north to Virginia for vacation from Florida I’d hope that Iowa doesn’t wind up like Texas where it’s many millions of dollars to fix. I’ve seen Alabama, Wisconsin, and North Carolina planning on a trip to Yorktown in Carolina.
In my opinion, there should be a Federal Fund that keeps all Battleships from WWII in prime condition. They are veterans in my eyes.
Do ups know is the Wisconsin museum has any plans to dry dock her?
I am thinking that a non-metallic version of your mini-one person-coffer-work-pen could serve as and electrolysis tank. it could remove corrosion, and re-apply a more suitable alloy; could it not?
How max of a tax cut would needed to encourage the building of 3 new large drydocks in the US able to hold something bigger and heavier than Ford.
WOW my assumptions are all wrong. I assumed there would be a shipyard in SoCal that could handle BB61, and the Navy would help, time permitting .
We are lucky private industry took over the ship building facilities when they closed the Philadelphia Shipyard.
Navy is years behind on maintenance for the active fleet. No way they’ll have capacity for museums.
Yeah, closing LBNS was horrible in hindsight!!
I’m absolutely disgusted with the state of our shipyards in America. The government should look to build a few new ones for building new ships and make money from restorations but hey everyone else gets Americans money but us. 😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡
Sadly, the US government is not in the business of maintaining museum ships aside from a handful of them.
We need shipyards for the active fleet. We’re so behind the 8 ball post BRAC we may never recover.
And then there’s the issue of who do you get to staff new shipyards? Currently, even the existing shipbuilding facilities have workforces that are aging out. Young people are not going into the trades that are necessary for expanding future shipbuilding let alone restaffing existing facilities. 🤷🏻♂️
@@glennac pay em more people will flood in by word of mouth.
One of the most important western dry docks was in Long Beach until it was sold and converted into container ship terminals
For those that criticize, frankly, what other choices does BB-61 have? Mike played out the details? Seriously, what alternatives are there? And who’s going to pay for these alternatives? 🤷🏻♂️
They are certainly in a rock and a hard place.
That's not fair. The truth is the public and politicians need *clear* communication. This guy it saying Iowa does *not* need to be dry docked to maintain a good condition. That's his explicit message so _why would_ politicians or the public want to put up the money? Either it *does* need it or it *doesn't* and he absolutely has to be clear on that.
If he's lying and it's really a problem of money then has an obligation to be honest -- He should be saying we are doing the best we can with what we have but we absolutely need to dry dock in the next XX years to have the best chance at preservation.
You can't have it both ways.
@@x--. The trouble is you need a “public and politicians” in California that care. BB Iowa just doesn’t have the same relationships with the public and CA politicians that, say, BB New Jersey has. And the state of Iowa has already forked over plenty over the years for an asset they can’t even enjoy in their own state. So, again, who’s going to pay for it?
@@glennac it seems like they're not even asking. They could ask the city, county, both states and vet orgs. Are they applying for grants? Did they ask their state senators? It looks like they don't and so they've adopted a sort of scarcity mindset.
They need a compelling ask, like: We must drydock Iowa within X years to preserve her. We need X dollars and we have set aside X dollars. Can you help us with this major expense? What would it take to get your support? Otherwise she may ______(insert realistic end)______ so please help, kthxbye.
For what it's worth, I never visited because it's just so expensive compared to other opportunities (City of Long Beach is finally taking care of QM so don't tell me there is no money).
It’s just that nobody cares except ship nerds like us. To most people, it’s just an old, rusting ship.
😢
You guys need to take a page out of New Jersey’s book. Social media takes some effort but can be a good money maker. Posting a guy doing a power point presentation with horrible audio is not the way to do things in the 2020s. You obviously have some smart and articulate people. Iowa deserves better than this.
You beat me to the punch. I'm an avid watcher of Ryan's videos -- which are outstanding. This presentation is so weak by comparison.
Exactly, this would have been a excellent presentation, in 1997.
@@emmgeevideothe presentation and talk was excellent tbh and I kinda like that it was filmed 'from an if you were in the audience perspective'.
@@wurlycorner I'm an avid amateur historian and particularly like 20th century military and political history. RUclips has opened a new world of sources to learn new things. The video format provides the opportunity to present archival videos that bring history to life and allows me to go places like museum ships that I otherwise couldn't see. I'm glad you enjoyed that video; I didn't. It was like watching a video someone captured on their iPhone. The PowerPoint presentation pales in comparison to Ryan Szimanski's presentation of the various aspects of the USS New Jersey and its historical context. I think the USS Iowa team could do better.
Pay for it now or more later comes to mind. Without the docking the bottom of the ship will at some point become an issue and it will be a real shame to see the lead ship in the condition of the USS Texas pre drydocking in 30 years. It also is a shame the required docks are not around anymore, also with the needs for war it means the Navy is not ready to even handle the active fleet in the Pacific. While the burden can't be handled by your State or org. alone a drydock needs built to handle her and other ships of her size on the west coast. If I had it my way the Navy needs three new full service shipyards with such drydocks and building slips. One on each coast and the third in the gulf. I would justify it with a new modern nuclear powered Battleship class that is a hybrid of the arsenal concept forward and a downsized landing assault carrier aft. It would have at least twice the missile loads as the current missile cruisers and a hanger for 4-6 Vstol/Helicopter craft plus a well deck for special ops. The big 16" guns would be replaced with smaller energy or railgun weapons with similar impact with a 5-15lbs slug (and no powder bags). These new yards need to stay NAVY owned but should be permitted to contract for commercial work to offset cost in peacetime and with a new class of 6 Battleships and other large classes like our carriers, a steady bit of Navy work as well. Some upgrades for such a new investment in yards I would want the drydocks to have in the base of the side walls both view ports and underwater lighting plus fixtures for some underwater cameras. This would reduce the need for divers like NJ needed to position her. Also I would like to see an improved keel bock design with a jacking screw with a wedge jack between two base layers of concrete. With NJ they mulched the tops of several to remove them to replace metal on the bottom. With a 4-6 inch jacking in the base, blocks could be moved without destroying the tops. Also a few blocks could include brackets for cameras too. Considering the hostilities of China and growth of their Navy we need to be able to match their ability to build even if we chose to only use a fraction of that ability. After Pearl Harbor, most the fleet was refloated and repaired/upgraded both there and on the west coast. Today it seems only VA has the docks to do such a job with our largest ships and leaves the Pacific fleet not ready for major damage control. Without a docking at some point the Iowa will have structural issues with her bottom and may reach a point that the best option may become pouring concrete around her hull turning her into a building not unlike the HMS Victory supported by external wood frames in a drydock forever turned basement never able to float again.
There is a civilian dry dock on the west coast that could handle the vessel.
Sinkex 2025*
Dam this guy should be a politician…….double talk and says nothing……
Where are the dry docks, an the floating dry docks that the USA had in WW2 to service all the ships in the fleet back then?
Tax money went overseas and not back to the people.
Terrible presentation. Definitely need to see what Ryan and the new Jersey are doing.
You should gut it to make a museum out of it.
I cant believe those jackasses have dumped the ship from our rosters. Those jackasses are undermining the nation any way they can.
This is a scam. The Battleship Iowa group gives "404 not found"
Have they considered looking at the Great Lakes with Duluth Harbor Duluth has the largest inland port in the world what if they have what the Iowa needs?
The Soo Locks maximum width is 75 feet. Iowa is 108+ feet wide, let alone the dead-ship tow through the Panama canal, up the east coast and down the St. Lawrence.
This guy loves to hear his own yammering crap. I stopped watching 8:42 time.
New Jersey did oops
Relocate to Philadelphia…problem solved,,,
Unless they can make her Highway ready there is no way to get her to the East Coast! The Navy will not let her be towed in International waters.
@@CITYNEWSSUPPORT Even if they would, Panama isn't about to let her go through the canal. She'd have to take the long way round.
@@Doctors_TARDISyeah our fearless leaders built a canal and the idiots gave it away.