That's what I don't get he can kill many and just get locked away I've read the injustice he killed 11 million people including a pregnant Lois lane and batman wanted to lock him up? And was upset that superman killed him? Superman was mostly in the right in the storyline but the writers had to make him evil and insane to make him the bad guy and batman has killed the joker in some story but thr writer will make it as if bad things will happen by killing one guy who has killed thousands and people call the avengers pussy well in a way both avengers and justice league are pussies people keep doing the s Crap "killing is wrong" IF THE MAN KILLS MANY KILL THE MF kill one to save many if they keep escaping and killing they need to be put down
@@matthewwilliams5407 This is like... what... the 100th time he put him to jail? Hell, he wasn't even put in a jail. It's a fucking insane asylum, and not once batman thought "Hey you know what? This joker dude's not gonna stop anytime soon and more bodies will pile up the longer he lives. Let's just off him right now!"
This is an example of how batmans whole “no killing” rule still hurts people. This dude is a total psycho and completely destroyed so many lives just to prove a point
Yes, but the legal system keeps saving the Joker from death row with the insanity plea despite his mounting body count. Arkham fails to keep the Joker from escaping again and again. He's a menace to society and everyone knows it but he can't be executed because he's insane. I also don't see any cop trying to shoot the clown dead or the legal system labeling the Joker a hopeless cause and an irredeemable murderer and executing him. Something they can do but chose not to. Continuously playing the insanity plea even when that has its limits. But everyone blames Batman, the vigilante for not killing. The same vigilante that's been hunted down whenever he was framed for murder. Frankly, they should blame Arkham for not keeping him in check and the legal system that keeps defending the Joker for being insane instead of blaming the vigilante who will be hunted down for murder if he kills the Joker.
It's not really Batmans job to kill him, nothing's stopping Commissioner Gordon, the Gotham DA, Mayor, etc from pushing for the death penalty for the guy who gassed an entire kindergarten class
I think that this is a good example of the no-killing rule being misunderstood. It's not just a rule for Batman, it's a weakness, a chink in his armor so to speak. In some of the better Batman storylines, I seem to remember it being hinted at that Batman is just one step from the edge, teetering on the abyss, and that if he was able to justify one killing (or intentionally letting a villain get killed by proxy, it would push him over the edge. As I understood, it is not the great moral stance that Batman is supposed to be taking, but rather, it's batman grasping to the edge of his sanity.
You gotta appreciate the fact that the Joker said "i didnt come for THAT kind of trouble ... i wouldnt kill your wife on your anniversary" and actually kept to his word even in the following years
I would like to point out that the Joker shooting Barbara Gordon wasn't because he knew about Batgirl it was because he was trying to break her father, Jim Gordon by making him have "one bad day".
@@looniemoonie5955 Everybody has their breaking point. And that mental strength has a lot to do with incremental suffering, but even incremental suffering can become overwhelming.
It does only take one bad day and that’s why he came back over and over again to give him another bad day as the other ones were not bad enough to break Tommy. The worst thing is that the more mentally stable u are and the more u “get better and don’t quit” the more the joker will break u. Tommy was soo tough it took joker 5 years to be able to break him and that’s fucking messed up.
@@ked49 u telling me his wife didn't dance with the joker in that scene? im pretty sure it was all real and he only lost his mind after the police refused to believe him at all. The watergun gag was just too joker to be made up in some rando's head, and we all know Joker is capable of cleaning up crime scenes after the fact.
Technically just four bad days in a span of 3 and a half years. But i find the whole story dumb and really absurd. Because they set up Tommy as a pretty tought guy, to the point he confronts the Joker right after he saw him kill two goons in cold blood. So it makes no sense that he could "mentally" collapse at some words from the Joker a year later. Tommy might grieve the horrible death of his friend, but being Tommy a tought police investigator he should have known better and get some therapy. It is always amazing how the writers can give superpowers to the Joker so he can teleport with no explanation to somewhere, do a deep research into someone`s life and then go to his house to write "I Miss You" on the floor in a couple of hours after spending days disconected from the outside world. And that did not affect Tommy at all, because after that simple "i miss you" reminder, Tommy was capable of remaking his whole life and even got a wife, wich is really good as he was not married before. So when the joker does his super instant research, use his Tommy`s finder habilities and magically teleports to Tommy`s new house to show him some creepy but well edited videos (another superpower of the joker is to get supplies instantly for everything in less than a day, even flesh corrosive acid, videotapes and an editor) there was no reason for Tommy to go insane. They have shown us that Tommy is not only a tought guy, but he is also resilient enough to start a new life. So, why didn`t he just leave Gotham and moved with his wife to anywhere else? is literally easier than what he did before. So it makes absolutely no sense than Tommy somehow goes insane after that las encounter. Because the first one was waaaay worse and he was still capable of living his life. But if we believe that Tommy can actually go insane, wouldn`t he go full Rambo? he was a competent police investigator, he is resilient. He should have dedicated his life to kill the Joker the next time they see each other. And also, Batman should have knew at this point that Tommy is always the first person the joker goes to visit after escaping. So at the end nothing makes sense. Everyone in the story behaves out of character besides the Joker, and everything that happens is just gimmicky.
Yeah Usually people avoid leaving their city to save their career and relationships Even when not running means death But this dude threw away everything but still did not leave gotham
Wow, Tommy was a terrible friend. The Joker keeps reaching out to him, and it's never "So, how have things been going lately Joker? Anything new between you and Harley?" It's always about Tommy.
I feel like joker would react like how homelander reacts to is it stillwell, in the comics? In the show they made it edgar essentislly, where he is the only one whos heartrate doesnt increase near him. I think joksr would be genuinely intrigued, amused, maybe even confused at how someone is just treating him so casually. That is before going back to being joker. There are then 1 of 2 outcomes: 1 he also treats it casually in a wierd form of respect to the guy, or 2: he fucking obliterates the guy, much like joker does to bonk in return of the joker
In the ‘Animated Series’ in the episode ‘Joker’s Favor’ the Joker try to pull this move on a dude name Charlie Collins, but unlike Tommy, Charlie mange to get his shit together and pull the ‘uno reverse card’ on Joker, by holding him at dynamite point, while mocking him of how he was gonna get blown all to high hell by a mere ‘nobody’ causing the Joker to scream for Batman to save him, only to realize that the dynamite was one of his confetti bombs. In the end Joker was humble by a mere nobody.
@@revalier3670 And that would fuckin piss Joker off to no end to know that a nobody not one of Batman's Rouge Gallery made Batman laugh, it's the curliest joker anyone could play on The Joker and would show how vain Joker really is case in point the fight between Joker in Tim Drake's body and Terry McGinnis in Batman Beyond Return Of The Joker
Well yeah but the animated series joker aint the comicbooks joker. Joker in the animated series is just a narcissistic criminal with a heavy inferiority complex. Joker in the comics...Is the other side of the coin to batman.. he is own twisted way he has reach enlightenment. That way in the animated series the civilian get to make fun of him .. but here he doesn't
@@PK-MegaLolCaT: But the thing is that Tommy could have done what Charlie did. Rise above the Joker’s antics, and put the Clown on his place. This comic is about ‘poor bastard’ that allowed himself to become Joker’s personal ‘bitch.’
I love how the entire time, Joker only actually did anything once, which was to kill the roommate. He actually didnt kill anyone else the other times, but he didnt need to. His mere presence was menacing.
I can't believe how powerful Joker's plot armor is. Imagine knowing Joker will break into your house once a year and you fail to kill him every year. Thank God for Jason Todd, bars.
@@ArsxnIV i don't know here the thing reverse flash has some reasons to be petty but joker did it to a random dude he meet who he had no reason to be petty too
That wasn't the real Thanos though that was just a clone of his that was going crazy they're all dead at this point Plus the guy was always able to pick himself back up after Thanos ruining his life
Might not be canon now, but Superman could hear everyone's heartbeat, and tell them apart. He could have just listened for the Joker's voice, then caught him in a few hours.
So you're telling me this guy; after creating a whole new life, which joker finds no problem. Then proceeds to get married? As if he didn't know what would happen
Joker is the best multitasker alive. He managed to: Make a friend, ruin someone mentally, terrorize a city, traumatize 2 people, fill up his old arkham cell, and never stopped smiling once during it all
The fact that joker knows how to mentally torture people and knows what he’s doing when he’s doing it makes him even more sane. Insane people don’t even think they’re hurting. Joker knows and he’s pretty sane, just evil
So, Batman should never chill. Ever. Always be on alert. Always fight some bad guy. Always deal with a threat. Never rest, never stop, never allow himself a moment's indulgence. Is Gotham worth that?
@@geoffz2366 That's what he comes to realize in The Dark Knight Returns. He finally realizes that it wasn't worth keeping him alive because of all the people he's killed so Batman kills him.
That’d be kinda boring as citizens are really the only people he can attack Joker can’t actually fight anyone with superpowers because he’s just a clown Which makes me think, why the fuck do people live in Gotham City? The man protecting it legitimately has NO powers and the longest list of villains that actually are kinda scary Disasters everyday like holy shit how is this city still functional? Although The Joker might kill people the real villain here is Batman He intentionally locks them up in a shitty prison (that he owns aka money) so they can escape wreck havoc and be thrown back into prison (even more money) and the cycle continues keeping everyone poor so nobody can afford to escape Gotham He’s a billionaire but he legitimately doesn’t even care about the people because he needs money to keep pretending to be a hero so he can save peoples he’s endangering
I think all Tommy had to do was play along. The Joker acted like he wanted a friend, Tommy should have been a friend. He'd recognized the Joker's viewpoint before. He saw that Joker viewed things as a big game. Tommy should have realized that, willing or not, he was part of the game now, and played it. Visits in Arkham, a phone number Joker could always call, a PO box. Invite him to things. Have tickets to an event ready to go. Make him a friend of the family. Edit: lots of people seem to think I believe Joker actually wanted a friend. I know he didn't. But that was the game he was playing. And as long as Joker was determined to play that game, to beat Tommy, then Tommy had a shot of controlling at least some of how he engaged with the Joker. If Joker was determined to act like a friend, to play by that specific set of rules, then Tommy could have used that against him.
That won't work. Joker doesn't repay kindness with kindness. The joke wouldn't be funny to the Joker, and you know what happens when the Joker gets bored. He doesn't let them go free, safe and dandy. He just kills them and moves on to his next laugh.
@@TheNewRobotMaster It would be funny. He has to constantly act like he likes a insane person who could kill him in a instant and treat him like a friend. Plus, Joker could have someone to chill with.
@@jackngo9338The writers said joker has superhuman durability and i think also something in lines of superhuman healing or something like that so he can't be crippled for a long time
He'd consider that to be a violation of ones rights that's even worse than death, and would also consider anyone using this method to be paving a path to tyranny
"Hey Batman, thanks for saving me from the Joker. Hey, since this is the second time in a row that he's broken out and specifically targeted me, maybe the next time he breaks out you should contact me just in case he tries to go after me again." It was that easy, Tommy.
I often wonder why other then the Joker being Batman's arch enemy why the Joker never got the Death sentence for the hundreds of people he has killed. That comic is a great way to show how effective phycological torture is over physical torture.
@@arthuralexandre3112 Right? If you kill a psychopath who tortures people for fun in the name of ending the suffering that doesn't turn you into a psychopath who tortures people for fun.
Joker being in your house, chilling under your bed like those stories I heard about homeless people secretly living in people’s residences without them even knowing until a security cam gets installed sounds fucking terrifying. That could be like a solo Joker horror movie by itself lol
Indeed, Mullet Man didn't understand the end of the story... Eric did visit Tommy at Arkham Asylum, he did become his friend, because he worked there as an orderly. It's all explained in "Batman: Endgame" and some of the comics that are connected to the event. The first half of Eric, Ei, is proto-Norse for "eternal". Reicks stands for ancient Gothic, meaning "Prince". Border is a homophone for the word "Bourder". The word is an out-of-date phrase which translates into the modern lexicon as "Jester".
They're both on the same level really, I personally think that Thanos was worse since he was doing it to that dude since he was born. Atleast Tommy's early life was fine until he messed with the Joker.
@@nonaw7529 Well, more like around 30 days, since Thanos just visited him once a year on his birthday, it does look like Joker spent multiple days in a row with him, so we don't know just how long it took Joker, but we do know Thanos took around 20-30 days
I think the Joker has in modern times been used as an avatar of insanity. Whenever the writer needs or wants to tell a story about insanity they use Joker for that purpose. In a way, many comic book characters are born and/or defined by an idea. Superman, Freedom. Batman, Trauma. Spiderman, becoming an adult. Joker, insanity. Most times the power dynamics of these characters and how threatening they are in the story depends on the view of the writer, the importance they give to Trauma or Freedom or Insanity.
On Batman not killing the Joker: He wishes the Gotham justice system would do it. But as a vigilante he feels it isn't his place to make that decision. Not stepping into the role of judge, jury or executioner is part of what keeps Gotham's government tolerating him
This is why I get so mad at the "Why doesn't he just kill the Joker" argument, because it is LITERALLY not his job. Batman isn't the one doing his job wrong in this situation, whoever keeps giving Joker second chances in Arkham is the one responsible. If Al Capone broke out of jail and started killing people no-one would ever put the blame on the cop who arrested him rather than shooting him.
@@coolgreenbug7551 Yeah, but don't forget it's mostly just breakouts that got the Joker out. Therefore, there is still no one else to blame, but Batman. He's a fricking vigilante, for crying out loud. I mean he's indirectly responsible for this poor man being on the brink of insanity.
They can easily make horror film about this to show how horrifying the joker is to a normal person with no powers or special abilities psychological horror where his life slowly starts spinning out of control reality and fantasy star mixing together and slowly starts losing his sanity
I'd watch it, Joker is realllllyyyyy into psylogical torture. like really, he's the reason batman is like one step from throwing anyone who laughs down a staircase. Hope you have a nice day! :O
This is probably one of the rare examples of Joker showing off his intelligence that can rival Batman at times if/when he puts his mind too it. Joker's pettiness out matches Eobard Thawne, something I didn't know possible
i still think thawne is pettier mainly because joker didnt really care about the comment he just wanted to break a man. thawne really cares about not being the flash way too much
@@hamchurger4566 thawne wanted to be Barry mate and companion and first got shown by him he goes jail comes out wants redemption from Barry Only to learn he’s his greatest enemy which starts him on his path to reverse flash Joker Lito just sees this guys confidence and view of him a joke which he takes advantage on emotionally breaking the guy using the theme of what was said to him about lonlyness and friendship
I'm noticing a pattern, *Joker is excessively clingy to those that know him* Every time someone talks shit or dissects Joker in his face without fear it delights him. That's why he tries to get Batman, at first he genuinely tried to kill him but now needs him. Others he'll gladly maim or kill to get to them like how he did the batfamily, I'd like to see a storyline on how he perfected the iconic batfamily assault by practicing on Harley or the everyman like Tommy or the other guy he also was talked down to.
I really dislike those iterations of the Joker where he can do just everything just BCS. Like how does have the resource, time, and intelligence network to pull of all those things? It doesn't make sense and the power scaling for Joker is just upsurd and immersion braking at this point. He's a dude in a clown costume with some biochemistry knowledge ot make his gas and ruedemtry hand-to-hand skills. But no, he can trace an investigative reporter from prison, set up and clean up chemical laboratories in such a way that police phorensic can find anything, he can hack into any computer system he might need to arise or find evidence and so on and so on. It's just nonsencial.
I’m pretty sure I’m the multiverse Batman is sitting somewhere thinking I did it I saved gotham and everyone is just riddled with ptsd and Batman is oblivious as hell to it like “yeah I’m such a good hero!”
all the gothhamites are immensely scared of laughter, vines, birds, Alice in wonderland, calendars, Clowns, organised standup comedy competitions, Puns, bats, big animals, anything 2 related, duality, puzzles, riddles, their tap water, scarecrows, straw, puppets, children's mascots, Lauder-mats, winter, ice, cold, and fire. you go anywhere else in DC's America, no problems with these things. it's just Gotham is the crime central of america, everywhere else has Meta's who try to make the populous not PTSD riddled. Hope you have a nice day! :D
I don't understand why everyone keeps blaming Batman. It's the Justice System of Gotham that refuses to give Joker the bloody chair every time Batman turns him in, instead the idiots just go "Ah yes he's just crazy. Off to the asylum". Batman is an enforcer, not an executioner. The Justice System of Gotham is flawed.
@@pyerack At some point, not sure which hospital or school he burned, blowed, or gassed up and killed everyone inside. But I'm thinking some time around teh Private School full of highschoolers, Gotham's Maternity ward in No Mans Land or one of the dozens of Christmas Shopping massacres he's fond of. But at some point, Batman has to assume full moral and ethical responsiblity. Every single last reasonable method has been tried dozens of time, he's turned his own medical professionals INSANE. Hell harley isn't even the only one. He's literally talked people to death on a phone call, which in itself was part of a game to fuck with a GCPD officer who got tortured till he became a super villain himself.
There was a comic I remember from many many years ago and I havent been able to find it. Joker and Batman were both displayed as massive lanky beasts with distorted bodies. Big sharp teeth, long fingers and claws. The story was about a guy who was going insane and was mimicking Joker killing his wife. It was as if Batman and Joker weren't really real characters in that universe, but elemental states of the mind. It's from the same era of comics when Hal Jordan lost Coast city, I remember getting a bunch of comics in a bundle.
This one kid got into a fight at my school because someone took his grapes, he ran up and punched the kid for taking his grapes and he fought back. The kid who started the fight got off Scott free as his family was very wealthy while the kid who defended himself got expelled with a large ammounts of conduct points on his transcript. I’ve taken it upon myself to leave a single grape in every known location the rich kid will be throughout his day, getting increasingly intrusive
The real reason he doesn't kill Joker is kinda because he can't anymore. If he keeps trying to stop him the "right way" then it might stick and then all those people at least died to maintain the ideal of justice. There was some small purpose. He kills Joker? All those deaths immediately become pointless because he ended up killing him anyway and could have just done it earlier. It's the kind of quandry that could keep you up at night.
Nah. Abstract ideas of justice do nothing to protect the people joker goes out of his way to hurt. If joker were too dead to hurt others, then his terror ends. Abstractions of so called justice just give joker cover.
Batmans unwillingness to change his moral compas results in innocent deaths, the way to hell is paved on good intentions sums up batman very well, and at the end of the day batmans code results in innocent lives being lost. He isnt a good guy, hes an extension of a broken system whos failure to change ruins lives. Batman doesent pull the trigger but he loads the gun and dares it to fire.
It's kind of like when Thanos picked some random kid and showed up every single year on his birthday, starting from the actual day of his birth, and messing up his life in some way every time. Like smashing his dad's car with his dad inside it, or killing his friend, or blowing up his house, or smashing his plumbing to flood his apartment, or killing his cat. For literally no reason other than to cause as much misery as possible to this one specific dude.
Funny how I used to say what’s so scary about joker since he was just a guy with no powers but his ability to break people mentally and torment is frightening
I remover reading a comic where they had robin and super boy teaming up. Super boy was disappointed because he’d always heard how dangerous the criminals in Gotham were, but he had no problem taking out a lot of Batman’s stronger enemies. Then they walk in on Zazz butchering a family, he looks up and says “sss you’ll wake the baby” super boy promptly has a massive panic attack while robin takes care on business, and states the problem with fighting gothams criminals isn’t a physical challenge, it’s mental one.
He is VERY scary and one of the scariest imo. Not just cause of his abilities but also because of him being a little more realistic. There are psychos in real life that are like him. And other criminals in Gotham. Realistic villains scare me more than those with powers. Humans can be more scarier, same with wild animals because they’re more realistic. O.O
That was AMAZING. I just discovered your channel -- and I'm impressed! (Aside from The Killing Joke, what are the titles and issue numbers of the stories mentioned at the beginning? Those look delightfully creepy too!!) Thank you!
I feel like Batman’s line in “Under the Red Hood” perfectly explains why he refuses to kill Joker. Because he knows that he’d never be able to stop until he’s killed every last criminal, and he’d have thrown away every ideal he’s ever held that’s kept him together over the years. The world would be a better place if Joker was dead, but Batman can’t be the one to do it (just look at how Injustice turned out with Superman becoming a dictator) Edit: for some clarification. When I say “kill every last criminal”, I mean the big ones. If he kills Joker, what’s to stop him from killing Penguin? Or Bane? Or Two-face? They’ve all done awful things too (not to the extent of Joker, but still). To him, if he compromises one ideal, he risks compromising more. That code is what separates him from every other damaged supervillain, it’s what separates his sense of self from that of the Joker. He might not kill anyone else ever again, but he’d have to live with that direct blood forever. Also, in that speech, he says he doesn’t just want to kill Joker, he wants to torture him. Doing that would change Batman forever, it would destroy what his symbol is, the thing that’s kept him going. Is it selfish to not kill Joker? A bit, but it’s still valid Edit 2: Looks like there’s been a lot of debate in the comment section. So I’ll try and tidy up what I was saying. When people say that Batman is mentally damaged, I agree with that. He watched his parents die right in front of him when he was 8, no one would walk out of that completely together. But to me, that doesn’t make him a coward for refusing to kill/allow anyone to die. To me, there isn’t a clear cut answer to what Batman should do and what the moral ramifications that could bring. Yes, killing the villains who commit these atrocities would save lives in the long run. But to me, it’s always seems easier for people to agree that a fictional character should do that themselves. Believing that the hero should kill the bad guys and being the one to actually take those lives are very different, it’s all a matter of perspective. That doesn’t make the argument that Batman should kill his enemies invalid, it just means it’s more complicated than it’s often made out to be. Some characters are more open to killing villains, others aren’t, and both are valid viewpoints. I just find what makes Batman so complex is his struggle against that urge. To want to kill every villain he goes up against, but he knows what that would do to his symbol. Criminals wouldn’t be the only ones who fear him, the civilians would too (just look at his arc in The Batman and how he went from a force of vengeance to a symbol of hope). Another thing to mention is this interesting comic pane I saw where Bruce gave Joker CPR after he drowned. He didn’t cause the drowning, and he could have let Joker die. But he had this internal monologue about how his father was a doctor, a healer. And how if he chose to allow someone to die without doing anything, he would be tarnishing the memory of his father. That is what keeps Batman from ending one life to potentially save hundreds, because it would also kill the very memory of why he chose to do this in the first place. I’m not trying to say that Batman should never kill, and I’m not saying he should kill every villain who regularly kills others. I just want to shine a light on why he still doesn’t kill Joker. (Plus, look at how people reacted to Batfleck and how he killed people on the regular) And before people bring up the whole “Bruce could help Gotham more using his resources for the city instead of dressing up like a bat”, he does both. He has multiple charities, provides job opportunities to henchman/ex-cons, funds programs to help improve Gotham. Just because he spends his nights dressing like a bat to beat up criminals, doesn’t automatically mean he only uses his money for Batman.
Yeah, except for the fact that its a petty excuse for why he won't end the life of the one person who's personally caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands. Really great justification. "If I kill this one mass murderer, I won't be able to stop myself from killing jaywalkers"
@@TheChocoboRacer It’s a garbage excuse but it makes sense for Batman. He’s a person with a very messed up psyche so someone with half a well structured mind has to pull the trigger before he can stop them from doing so Batman can’t even give approval beforehand because in his eyes he’s still killing the Joker himself by letting it happen, so it *has* to be done that way
I remember from the Batman Animated TV Series were a man sweared at the Joker from a car. The Joker followed him and tortured him the same way for a long while. The cartoon ended good Batman stopped the Joker.
Fun fact Batmans no kill rule was originally a way for DC to avoid being sued for copyright infringement by street and smith. As Bob Kane and Bill Finger had essentially plagiarized the shadow pulp partners in peril for Batmans debut comic.
Except in the original comics Batman killed plenty of people. Hell he straight up killed joker in his first appearance. The no killing rule is a combination of the comics code authority during the silver age, and dc wanting to keep around the really interesting villains. You’ll note the punisher doesn’t have a rogues gallery, and that forces his writers to get a lot more creative. It also results in villains that aren’t quite as memorable.
I mean,he probably could if he really wanted to,but I don't think he really does. I think he sees it as a game. Batman is his nemesis,simply figuring out and utilizing his identity would be like cheating. It's like playing a video game. The whole point is to get stronger and beat all the levels,but there wouldn't be much to do if you did.
One if the changes i like that they made in the Arkham series is actually the fact that Joker physically and mentally tortured Jason for a year just like that. Shame the payoff in game was a bit whatever imo, but i would love to see an adaptation of that in the mainstream comics ngl
That's actuallyl the worst part of the game for me. You would have us believe that Bruce, Dick, Alfred, Barbara would sit around with Superman a literal whisper away for years? Ok I'll believe Bruce would, not a problem. Dick? You're telling me DICK GRAYSON would not be dragging the whole of the Titans to Gotham and ripping that city apart brick by brick by brick till he found his brother? That ALFRED would not be in the Daily Planet giving Clark the boot out of the his chair to get his ass to Gotham and find his grandson? After weeks, months? Wonder Woman (who adores Jason the most out of the robins) wouldn't be there to slap Bruce's shit around for not calling the League. And before you say the League doesn't exist there, it does, Suicide Squad kills the Justice League is Arkhamverse canon.
@@bulbafett5001 - The Justice League also exists in the DCAU, but the Batfam didn't call them when the Joker kidnapped Tim Drake and tortured him until he was brainwashed. Superman, the Flash and Wonder Woman constantly have their own crisis to deal with, the can't fight Lex Luthor, Prometheus and Ares with Bruce constantly asking them to check up on Jason or Tim...
@@randallflagg3700 Ther'es a slight difference between Captured and tortured over a day or two like Tim and nearly two years like Jason. Joker didn't send Bruce weekly updates on Tim's brutalization for months and months, nor did he let the entirety of Arkham beat on the kid. Which is the part that really bugs me, like Catman. CATMAN was one of the guys who did this, Catman is not a guy who fucks around with hurting kids or tolerates that shit from others. He also has a major respect for Batman. and like Calenderman or Riddler wouldn't have squealed to get a deal from the cops or Batman. The idea that for years every single villain in Arkham was able to maintain this secret PLUS not a single member of the Batfamily, not Bruce, Alfred, Dick, Barbara or Kate did a thing to look outside of Gotham for help. Even if you somehow believe Bruce and Alfred did nothing at all and Barbara just gave the fuck up. You're telling me Dick Grayson would be doing a single other thing than ripping Gotham apart with his bare fucking hands until he found his brother alive or dead. And that he wouldn't call the Titans to help him regardless of what Bruce wants? The guy who beat the Joker to death over mocking Jason's death. That guy, the guy who routinely summons the Titans to just *stomp the fuck* out problems, at least until DC forgot he has a phone, brain cells that work and friends.
@@bulbafett5001 - Tim Drake wasn't tortured for a day or two, he was tortured for *3 weeks* at the abandoned Arkham Asylum. You'd think Batman would ask for the Justice League's help after a few days at worst... and that he would have looked there sooner. Also, I wouldn't worry too much about the stuff that is in *Arkham Knight: Genesis* since it's non-canon. But when it comes to Catman, he's pretty different when he's written by Gail Simone... Last time we saw him before Gail picked him up was in Brad Meltzer's Green Arrow run, where he was a real scumbag. And recently, in *"The Joker Annual 2021"* , Catman was happy to work for the Joker, and tried to kill Batgirl.... and taunted Jim Gordon about what happened to his friend Harvey Dent. When he isn't written by Gail Simone, he isn't particularly honorable/respectful.
Mostly because of fucken Batman who would stop you from killing criminals, aka why Red Hood spends half his time dodging Batman and only other half shooting.
love how you can get the death sentence for killing a person in self defense but joker torturing, stealing, terrorizing, threatening, blackmailing, making gangs, using drugs, is enough to put him in a badly secured cell
I'm a don't kill kind of person, but at the same time there's shit like this. In times like this I channel one of my favorite dnd characters: Chie Tsudonen. She's logical, empathetic, but willing to kill if she knows it's for the best.
I still don't understand why no one has been able to just cap him. I get that it's because people are too afraid of Joker to apparently even attempt to bring their own gun, but like, why???? It only takes one bullet.
Plot Armour lol. Joker has very little benefit to anyone and is a problem/headache for both heroes and villains alike the bounty on his head should be so high people are coming to Gotham in droves specifically to take his life.
Really enjoy your channel and how many stories you talk about that i've never heard of before. I feel like this is the creepiest stuff Joker can do in Gotham. Stalking a random civilian just to prove a point is so scary
Joker is messed up. No one can play mind games quite like him. I remember once in a comic, Joker kidnapped and killed some people. Everytime he'd kidnap a person, batman would search for them and then find them dead. Then one time joker kidnapped another person (I think it was a girl) and batman looked for her. He found where she was kept and to his surprise he found her alive. After apprehending joker batman asked him why he kept this girl alive. Joker said, "Cause now, you'll never truly know"... Cold shit.
This has the same energy as the time Thanos went out of his way to ruin one random guy's entire life by showing up and doing something awful every single year on his birthday starting when he was a kid.
1:52 “Tommy accidentally lets out a snort in fear” … What? The hell are you talking about? He was laughing, dude. He literally says he finds the situation funny and was laughing at him. How the hell do you get a “snort of fear” from that? In fact, what he says next it wasn’t a desperate attempt to survive at all! It was his honest to god opinion of the Joker and why he was hilarious in a twisted, cosmically-pathetic sort of way.
Развлечения
Gotham's criminal justice system is truly something else.
Batman's part of the problem.
That's what I don't get he can kill many and just get locked away I've read the injustice he killed 11 million people including a pregnant Lois lane and batman wanted to lock him up? And was upset that superman killed him? Superman was mostly in the right in the storyline but the writers had to make him evil and insane to make him the bad guy and batman has killed the joker in some story but thr writer will make it as if bad things will happen by killing one guy who has killed thousands and people call the avengers pussy well in a way both avengers and justice league are pussies people keep doing the s
Crap "killing is wrong" IF THE MAN KILLS MANY KILL THE MF kill one to save many if they keep escaping and killing they need to be put down
@@matthewwilliams5407 This is like... what... the 100th time he put him to jail? Hell, he wasn't even put in a jail. It's a fucking insane asylum, and not once batman thought "Hey you know what? This joker dude's not gonna stop anytime soon and more bodies will pile up the longer he lives. Let's just off him right now!"
Arkham Asylum has a Cashless-bail policy.
@@ChoccyMilk2003 That's right, it's so stupid!
“You’re lonely af”
Joker: I’m about to end this man’s whole career.
Whole life*
everything you say cand and WILL be used against you in the Joker's court
Struck a nerve lmao
💀
But he is lonely
This is an example of how batmans whole “no killing” rule still hurts people. This dude is a total psycho and completely destroyed so many lives just to prove a point
Yes, but the legal system keeps saving the Joker from death row with the insanity plea despite his mounting body count. Arkham fails to keep the Joker from escaping again and again. He's a menace to society and everyone knows it but he can't be executed because he's insane. I also don't see any cop trying to shoot the clown dead or the legal system labeling the Joker a hopeless cause and an irredeemable murderer and executing him. Something they can do but chose not to. Continuously playing the insanity plea even when that has its limits.
But everyone blames Batman, the vigilante for not killing. The same vigilante that's been hunted down whenever he was framed for murder. Frankly, they should blame Arkham for not keeping him in check and the legal system that keeps defending the Joker for being insane instead of blaming the vigilante who will be hunted down for murder if he kills the Joker.
It's not really Batmans job to kill him, nothing's stopping Commissioner Gordon, the Gotham DA, Mayor, etc from pushing for the death penalty for the guy who gassed an entire kindergarten class
@@Zeruel3 But they don't. They just blame Batman for not killing because they are incompetent.
@@Zeruel3except, I think, Batman does push for these criminals to be considered insane and thus not eligible for the death penalty
I think that this is a good example of the no-killing rule being misunderstood. It's not just a rule for Batman, it's a weakness, a chink in his armor so to speak. In some of the better Batman storylines, I seem to remember it being hinted at that Batman is just one step from the edge, teetering on the abyss, and that if he was able to justify one killing (or intentionally letting a villain get killed by proxy, it would push him over the edge.
As I understood, it is not the great moral stance that Batman is supposed to be taking, but rather, it's batman grasping to the edge of his sanity.
You gotta appreciate the fact that the Joker said "i didnt come for THAT kind of trouble ... i wouldnt kill your wife on your anniversary" and actually kept to his word even in the following years
no we dont
@@sidneygibson2606yeah we do
We do
No
I would like to point out that the Joker shooting Barbara Gordon wasn't because he knew about Batgirl it was because he was trying to break her father, Jim Gordon by making him have "one bad day".
Two birds and one stone
With how insane Joker is, he actually had a point. One bad day CAN completely break person, it's just some of us are stronger than others.
690 👍
@@looniemoonie5955 Everybody has their breaking point. And that mental strength has a lot to do with incremental suffering, but even incremental suffering can become overwhelming.
@@looniemoonie5955 i mean, just look at the mess that is Injustice
Joker's point: "it only takes one bad day"
Also joker: gives a guy 5 years of bad days.
It did took one day (when he killed his roommate)
The rest just totally destroyed the guy
@@ricardobravo2952 the rest was in his head
It does only take one bad day and that’s why he came back over and over again to give him another bad day as the other ones were not bad enough to break Tommy. The worst thing is that the more mentally stable u are and the more u “get better and don’t quit” the more the joker will break u. Tommy was soo tough it took joker 5 years to be able to break him and that’s fucking messed up.
@@ked49 u telling me his wife didn't dance with the joker in that scene? im pretty sure it was all real and he only lost his mind after the police refused to believe him at all. The watergun gag was just too joker to be made up in some rando's head, and we all know Joker is capable of cleaning up crime scenes after the fact.
Technically just four bad days in a span of 3 and a half years. But i find the whole story dumb and really absurd. Because they set up Tommy as a pretty tought guy, to the point he confronts the Joker right after he saw him kill two goons in cold blood. So it makes no sense that he could "mentally" collapse at some words from the Joker a year later. Tommy might grieve the horrible death of his friend, but being Tommy a tought police investigator he should have known better and get some therapy. It is always amazing how the writers can give superpowers to the Joker so he can teleport with no explanation to somewhere, do a deep research into someone`s life and then go to his house to write "I Miss You" on the floor in a couple of hours after spending days disconected from the outside world. And that did not affect Tommy at all, because after that simple "i miss you" reminder, Tommy was capable of remaking his whole life and even got a wife, wich is really good as he was not married before. So when the joker does his super instant research, use his Tommy`s finder habilities and magically teleports to Tommy`s new house to show him some creepy but well edited videos (another superpower of the joker is to get supplies instantly for everything in less than a day, even flesh corrosive acid, videotapes and an editor) there was no reason for Tommy to go insane. They have shown us that Tommy is not only a tought guy, but he is also resilient enough to start a new life. So, why didn`t he just leave Gotham and moved with his wife to anywhere else? is literally easier than what he did before. So it makes absolutely no sense than Tommy somehow goes insane after that las encounter. Because the first one was waaaay worse and he was still capable of living his life. But if we believe that Tommy can actually go insane, wouldn`t he go full Rambo? he was a competent police investigator, he is resilient. He should have dedicated his life to kill the Joker the next time they see each other. And also, Batman should have knew at this point that Tommy is always the first person the joker goes to visit after escaping. So at the end nothing makes sense. Everyone in the story behaves out of character besides the Joker, and everything that happens is just gimmicky.
One of the scariest traits to pair with insanity is patience
Doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome.
Damn, that is quoteworthy man. Gonna use it.
I like how Tommy did literally everything possible to hide BUT move out of Gotham which is where joker always is
Yeah
Usually people avoid leaving their city to save their career and relationships
Even when not running means death
But this dude threw away everything but still did not leave gotham
Its almost like the cycle of poverty which is what gotham is based around keeps you stuck
Plot twist if he DID move out of Gotham: Joker STILL KEEPS following him! Even OUTSIDE of Gotham!! He’s a stalker! He became sort of a yandere!
XD
Or better yet just move to Metropolis.
@@JenniferPoole.33272in the BTAS episode "jokers favor" that is essentially exactly what he does.
Wow, Tommy was a terrible friend. The Joker keeps reaching out to him, and it's never "So, how have things been going lately Joker? Anything new between you and Harley?" It's always about Tommy.
I wonder how joker wouldve reacted if tommy was like that?
true
I feel like joker would react like how homelander reacts to is it stillwell, in the comics? In the show they made it edgar essentislly, where he is the only one whos heartrate doesnt increase near him. I think joksr would be genuinely intrigued, amused, maybe even confused at how someone is just treating him so casually. That is before going back to being joker. There are then 1 of 2 outcomes: 1 he also treats it casually in a wierd form of respect to the guy, or 2: he fucking obliterates the guy, much like joker does to bonk in return of the joker
@@nonaw7529 deadass though
666th Like.👍🏽
In the ‘Animated Series’ in the episode ‘Joker’s Favor’ the Joker try to pull this move on a dude name Charlie Collins, but unlike Tommy, Charlie mange to get his shit together and pull the ‘uno reverse card’ on Joker, by holding him at dynamite point, while mocking him of how he was gonna get blown all to high hell by a mere ‘nobody’ causing the Joker to scream for Batman to save him, only to realize that the dynamite was one of his confetti bombs. In the end Joker was humble by a mere nobody.
It is interesting how this comic is basically the bad ending of that episode.
Hey don't forget the best part, this nobody also made Batman laugh with this stunt 😂 he's a boss in my eyes
@@revalier3670 And that would fuckin piss Joker off to no end to know that a nobody not one of Batman's Rouge Gallery made Batman laugh, it's the curliest joker anyone could play on The Joker and would show how vain Joker really is case in point the fight between Joker in Tim Drake's body and Terry McGinnis in Batman Beyond Return Of The Joker
Well yeah but the animated series joker aint the comicbooks joker. Joker in the animated series is just a narcissistic criminal with a heavy inferiority complex.
Joker in the comics...Is the other side of the coin to batman.. he is own twisted way he has reach enlightenment. That way in the animated series the civilian get to make fun of him .. but here he doesn't
@@PK-MegaLolCaT: But the thing is that Tommy could have done what Charlie did. Rise above the Joker’s antics, and put the Clown on his place. This comic is about ‘poor bastard’ that allowed himself to become Joker’s personal ‘bitch.’
I love how the entire time, Joker only actually did anything once, which was to kill the roommate. He actually didnt kill anyone else the other times, but he didnt need to. His mere presence was menacing.
I can't believe how powerful Joker's plot armor is. Imagine knowing Joker will break into your house once a year and you fail to kill him every year. Thank God for Jason Todd, bars.
Buying a gun would require evidence that he exists. And he moves each time.
@@ked49 the gang member in my neighborhood will sell you one for 10 bucks I don't think its that deep bro.
@@kaliber150 And Gotham’s a next level hellhole. You could probably buy a gun off any hobo for twenty cents.
Crowbars
You think a random dude could just kill the Joker?
Joker is the king of pettiness
He's the Prince of Pettiness. King of Pettiness is Reverse Flash
@@ArsxnIV the clown prince of pettiness, if you will.
@@ArsxnIV It was ME barry!
@@ArsxnIV i don't know here the thing reverse flash has some reasons to be petty but joker did it to a random dude he meet who he had no reason to be petty too
@@ArsxnIV Don't discount Thanos and his birthday parties.
This reminds me of the guy that Thanos tormented for years on end, showing up every birthday just to destroy his life.
Thanos killed his cat for no reason
If nobody will show up to your birthday, Thanos will
That wasn't the real Thanos though that was just a clone of his that was going crazy they're all dead at this point
Plus the guy was always able to pick himself back up after Thanos ruining his life
@@SonTaicario Yeah and his FATHER and FRIENDS and eventually HIM (I forgot if he escaped after the flood or not)
This was exactly what I thought of
"mercy to an enemy cannot come at the cost of mercy for their victims"
With how easily the Joker finds him while literally just out of jail. Makes you think he is really a supernatural being and not just a crazy person.
He broke him day two, the rest was all in the guy’s head
Actually this is pretty normal for criminal leaders.
Bruh if this kept happening to me every year,the second I hear "Joker broke out of Arkham aga-" I'm walking outside and screaming "AYO SUPERMAN"💀
lol exactly forget being in gotham im moving in with the kent family
Might not be canon now, but Superman could hear everyone's heartbeat, and tell them apart. He could have just listened for the Joker's voice, then caught him in a few hours.
Even Superman can fall victim to the Joker's schemes and cruelty. You remember how the whole Injustice saga started, right?
@@furioussherman7265injustice superman is not the same as the regular one
Superman would just pick him up and politely deliver him back to his cell.
So you're telling me this guy; after creating a whole new life, which joker finds no problem. Then proceeds to get married? As if he didn't know what would happen
😂His wife was fake too
This is what I’m saying. Like dude, you’re just asking to get her mentally tortured.
dude also never thought in getting his own gun
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp How was she fake?
@@Salik96 Spongebob: 🌈imagination
Joker is the best multitasker alive.
He managed to: Make a friend, ruin someone mentally, terrorize a city, traumatize 2 people, fill up his old arkham cell, and never stopped smiling once during it all
The fact that joker knows how to mentally torture people and knows what he’s doing when he’s doing it makes him even more sane. Insane people don’t even think they’re hurting. Joker knows and he’s pretty sane, just evil
Joker just gets a little quirky at night
He's always quirky, lol
Five nights at freddy's reference
He’s not like other clowns 🤪
yo the jojo pfp
hes just like me fr
It's kinda horrible how batman is just chilling, while this poor guy goes through hell.
So, Batman should never chill. Ever. Always be on alert. Always fight some bad guy. Always deal with a threat. Never rest, never stop, never allow himself a moment's indulgence.
Is Gotham worth that?
@@Ares99999 he basically already does that
@@Ares99999 if he just killed joker he would have saved thousands of lives
@@geoffz2366 That's what he comes to realize in The Dark Knight Returns. He finally realizes that it wasn't worth keeping him alive because of all the people he's killed so Batman kills him.
Bruce Wayne eating expensive food and pussy. Meanwhile this guy.
"The Joker is behind bars. You are safe now"
Yeah right.
His plot armor is so thick, he’d never stay in jail
'' He is just a lonely man. ''
Joker: '' I will make you wish you were a lonely man. ''
I have to admire Jokers dedication to proving points to everyone
Joker would need even more dedication if he ever made a twitter account.
True
I like how they showed the years passing with Joker's design changes
yeah, loved that detail too. from Classic, to Face Off, to Lazarus Pit.
Joker 🤝 Thanos
- Torturing random dudes psychologically
Honestly, I would love to see a comprehensive list of all the times The Joker was obsessed with someone other than Batman.
That’d be kinda boring as citizens are really the only people he can attack
Joker can’t actually fight anyone with superpowers because he’s just a clown
Which makes me think, why the fuck do people live in Gotham City? The man protecting it legitimately has NO powers and the longest list of villains that actually are kinda scary
Disasters everyday like holy shit how is this city still functional?
Although The Joker might kill people the real villain here is Batman
He intentionally locks them up in a shitty prison (that he owns aka money) so they can escape wreck havoc and be thrown back into prison (even more money) and the cycle continues keeping everyone poor so nobody can afford to escape Gotham
He’s a billionaire but he legitimately doesn’t even care about the people because he needs money to keep pretending to be a hero so he can save peoples he’s endangering
joker is literally the worst troll ever
or best
"i, the joker, do a little bit of tomfoolery!" - joker
Naah, that would be annoying Orange.
u genuinely made me laugh at this idk why
I mean yeah
I think all Tommy had to do was play along. The Joker acted like he wanted a friend, Tommy should have been a friend. He'd recognized the Joker's viewpoint before. He saw that Joker viewed things as a big game. Tommy should have realized that, willing or not, he was part of the game now, and played it. Visits in Arkham, a phone number Joker could always call, a PO box. Invite him to things. Have tickets to an event ready to go. Make him a friend of the family.
Edit: lots of people seem to think I believe Joker actually wanted a friend. I know he didn't. But that was the game he was playing. And as long as Joker was determined to play that game, to beat Tommy, then Tommy had a shot of controlling at least some of how he engaged with the Joker. If Joker was determined to act like a friend, to play by that specific set of rules, then Tommy could have used that against him.
exactly
Just showing like… basic kindness would’ve probably been enough
That won't work. Joker doesn't repay kindness with kindness. The joke wouldn't be funny to the Joker, and you know what happens when the Joker gets bored. He doesn't let them go free, safe and dandy. He just kills them and moves on to his next laugh.
@@TheNewRobotMaster It would be funny. He has to constantly act like he likes a insane person who could kill him in a instant and treat him like a friend. Plus, Joker could have someone to chill with.
@@TheNewRobotMaster true but if you're playing Joker games, might as well win Joker prizes even if that means a non-prolongued death.
Batman doesn't kill but gives concussions, he can funking hack into Darkside system but can't make a stupid prison that can hold Joker.
I truly don’t understand how Batman lets this man live or doesn’t even cripple him
It's against the hero code.
@@jackngo9338his code doesn't say anything about paralyzing all life tough
@@simone5760 Does he do that?
@@jackngo9338 he should
@@jackngo9338The writers said joker has superhuman durability and i think also something in lines of superhuman healing or something like that so he can't be crippled for a long time
OK Batman has issues with killing the joker but.... What about tossing him into the Phantom Zone?
He'd consider that to be a violation of ones rights that's even worse than death, and would also consider anyone using this method to be paving a path to tyranny
TBC, I don't agree with any of that, I'm just saying that's what Batman's opinion about the whole thing would likely be
Lego Joker managed to escape the Phantom Zone
Would you risk a joker and zod team up?
@@user-kq5ci7ol8o violation? Tell that to the random criminals he beats half to death on the regular
Joker destroying a grown man better than Thanos birthday ruining
Hot take?
Only if the fucker deserved it
It took like 30 years for Thanos to break that man, Joker only needed 5
@@thiagoalbornoz5062 correction it took Thanos 30 days over 30 years
@@venlil He missed one day. And Joker only showed up a handful of times throughout the 5 year span.
Though in principle I agree however Thanos killed his guys cat....
"Hey Batman, thanks for saving me from the Joker. Hey, since this is the second time in a row that he's broken out and specifically targeted me, maybe the next time he breaks out you should contact me just in case he tries to go after me again."
It was that easy, Tommy.
I often wonder why other then the Joker being Batman's arch enemy why the Joker never got the Death sentence for the hundreds of people he has killed. That comic is a great way to show how effective phycological torture is over physical torture.
Batman: If you kill a killer, the amount of killers in the world is still one
The Punisher: If you stop there, sure. That’s what ammo belts are for
Batman: If you kill a killer, the amount of killers in the world stay the same.
TheRussianBadger: Okay but like if I kill a 100 killers...
@@arthuralexandre3112 Right?
If you kill a psychopath who tortures people for fun in the name of ending the suffering that doesn't turn you into a psychopath who tortures people for fun.
@Christoffer Good Bäckängsgymnasiet ES20C 😄
If you kill multiple killers the amount of killers in the world will lessen
@@crixxanity
Killer who murdered a serial killer is also better. The other one would keep murdering multiple innocent individuals.
The panel of batman screaming "give me my birthday present!" out of context is one of the funniest things I've seen all week.
Scared enough to move but not scared enough to leave Gotham city lmao
Joker being in your house, chilling under your bed like those stories I heard about homeless people secretly living in people’s residences without them even knowing until a security cam gets installed sounds fucking terrifying. That could be like a solo Joker horror movie by itself lol
"Eric" or Eric Border, was the Joker's disguise in Arkham where he pretended to be a guard.
Thank you for explaining the name. I was lost
Indeed, Mullet Man didn't understand the end of the story... Eric did visit Tommy at Arkham Asylum, he did become his friend, because he worked there as an orderly.
It's all explained in "Batman: Endgame" and some of the comics that are connected to the event.
The first half of Eric, Ei, is proto-Norse for "eternal". Reicks stands for ancient Gothic, meaning "Prince".
Border is a homophone for the word "Bourder". The word is an out-of-date phrase which translates into the modern lexicon as "Jester".
Not guard. Psychologist. Ironic when you think about it.😅
This is DC's hardcore version of Thanos fucking with a random dude for basically all his life just because.
They're both on the same level really, I personally think that Thanos was worse since he was doing it to that dude since he was born. Atleast Tommy's early life was fine until he messed with the Joker.
@@thegungerbrospodcast7671 Think about it this way. Thanos needed 20+ years to truly fuck with that guy. Joker only needed 5
@@nonaw7529 Well, more like around 30 days, since Thanos just visited him once a year on his birthday, it does look like Joker spent multiple days in a row with him, so we don't know just how long it took Joker, but we do know Thanos took around 20-30 days
Joker mostly psychologically torture him tho but Thanos killed many people in that man’s life. More than Joker did
We need a team for these dudes man. A support group like that
I loved this comic because it shows how messed up the joker gets just for a laugh.
I think the Joker has in modern times been used as an avatar of insanity. Whenever the writer needs or wants to tell a story about insanity they use Joker for that purpose. In a way, many comic book characters are born and/or defined by an idea. Superman, Freedom. Batman, Trauma. Spiderman, becoming an adult. Joker, insanity. Most times the power dynamics of these characters and how threatening they are in the story depends on the view of the writer, the importance they give to Trauma or Freedom or Insanity.
Duh
Spider-Man has the worst case of Peter Pan syndrome in recent history but overall sure.
I see the birth of another competent, inspiring writer :)
@@ViniSocramSaint Aw, that is really kind of you. Thank you.
On Batman not killing the Joker:
He wishes the Gotham justice system would do it. But as a vigilante he feels it isn't his place to make that decision. Not stepping into the role of judge, jury or executioner is part of what keeps Gotham's government tolerating him
thats why i love the punisher
@@ShadowMokujin Even the Punisher hates the Punisher.
@@colbyboucher6391 Yeah but he gets the job done.
This is why I get so mad at the "Why doesn't he just kill the Joker" argument, because it is LITERALLY not his job. Batman isn't the one doing his job wrong in this situation, whoever keeps giving Joker second chances in Arkham is the one responsible. If Al Capone broke out of jail and started killing people no-one would ever put the blame on the cop who arrested him rather than shooting him.
@@coolgreenbug7551 Yeah, but don't forget it's mostly just breakouts that got the Joker out. Therefore, there is still no one else to blame, but Batman. He's a fricking vigilante, for crying out loud. I mean he's indirectly responsible for this poor man being on the brink of insanity.
They can easily make horror film about this to show how horrifying the joker is to a normal person with no powers or special abilities psychological horror where his life slowly starts spinning out of control reality and fantasy star mixing together and slowly starts losing his sanity
I'd watch it, Joker is realllllyyyyy into psylogical torture. like really, he's the reason batman is like one step from throwing anyone who laughs down a staircase.
Hope you have a nice day! :O
it's allmost like it already exists
literally called joker
I think that the closest we get to a Joker horror movie would be Terrifier.
death by spoon
this is like the Joker's version of chinese water torture. just...one type of normally harmless stimulus over agonizingly long periods of time
Tommy never decided to arm himself in all those years, huh? Bold strategy
This is probably one of the rare examples of Joker showing off his intelligence that can rival Batman at times if/when he puts his mind too it. Joker's pettiness out matches Eobard Thawne, something I didn't know possible
Thawne is homo though, Joker would never jerk a guy off to prove a point.
i still think thawne is pettier mainly because joker didnt really care about the comment he just wanted to break a man. thawne really cares about not being the flash way too much
@@hamchurger4566 thawne wanted to be Barry mate and companion and first got shown by him he goes jail comes out wants redemption from Barry Only to learn he’s his greatest enemy which starts him on his path to reverse flash
Joker Lito just sees this guys confidence and view of him a joke which he takes advantage on emotionally breaking the guy using the theme of what was said to him about lonlyness and friendship
@@chrizmartin9890 yes i know
Joker: It was ME, Tommy!😁😈
I'm noticing a pattern,
*Joker is excessively clingy to those that know him*
Every time someone talks shit or dissects Joker in his face without fear it delights him.
That's why he tries to get Batman, at first he genuinely tried to kill him but now needs him.
Others he'll gladly maim or kill to get to them like how he did the batfamily, I'd like to see a storyline on how he perfected the iconic batfamily assault by practicing on Harley or the everyman like Tommy or the other guy he also was talked down to.
I really dislike those iterations of the Joker where he can do just everything just BCS. Like how does have the resource, time, and intelligence network to pull of all those things? It doesn't make sense and the power scaling for Joker is just upsurd and immersion braking at this point. He's a dude in a clown costume with some biochemistry knowledge ot make his gas and ruedemtry hand-to-hand skills. But no, he can trace an investigative reporter from prison, set up and clean up chemical laboratories in such a way that police phorensic can find anything, he can hack into any computer system he might need to arise or find evidence and so on and so on. It's just nonsencial.
Reporter: "lol you got no friends"
Joker: "yeah im gonna take that personally"
I’m pretty sure I’m the multiverse Batman is sitting somewhere thinking I did it I saved gotham and everyone is just riddled with ptsd and Batman is oblivious as hell to it like “yeah I’m such a good hero!”
all the gothhamites are immensely scared of laughter, vines, birds, Alice in wonderland, calendars, Clowns, organised standup comedy competitions, Puns, bats, big animals, anything 2 related, duality, puzzles, riddles, their tap water, scarecrows, straw, puppets, children's mascots, Lauder-mats, winter, ice, cold, and fire.
you go anywhere else in DC's America, no problems with these things. it's just Gotham is the crime central of america, everywhere else has Meta's who try to make the populous not PTSD riddled.
Hope you have a nice day! :D
@@Popthebop Dude, also their afraid of ice. Like their terrified of winter.
@@zonebro6205 GAH I FORGOT MR ICE, ice man? professor ice? MR cold? god what's his name. I totally for got about him lol
@@Popthebop Mr Freeze.
@@Popthebop Also any sort of gas
This is why Batman’s no killing rule is flawed lol
I don't understand why everyone keeps blaming Batman.
It's the Justice System of Gotham that refuses to give Joker the bloody chair every time Batman turns him in, instead the idiots just go "Ah yes he's just crazy. Off to the asylum".
Batman is an enforcer, not an executioner.
The Justice System of Gotham is flawed.
@@pyerack At some point, not sure which hospital or school he burned, blowed, or gassed up and killed everyone inside. But I'm thinking some time around teh Private School full of highschoolers, Gotham's Maternity ward in No Mans Land or one of the dozens of Christmas Shopping massacres he's fond of. But at some point, Batman has to assume full moral and ethical responsiblity. Every single last reasonable method has been tried dozens of time, he's turned his own medical professionals INSANE. Hell harley isn't even the only one. He's literally talked people to death on a phone call, which in itself was part of a game to fuck with a GCPD officer who got tortured till he became a super villain himself.
Why do you read it if you loathe the character?
@@Ares99999 just because you don't like one part of the mc doesn't mean you can't like the series
@@pyerack true very true Batman’s not the only to blame and he’s one of my favorite heroes anyway just bugs me is all
Batman: why joker?
Joker: funni
There was a comic I remember from many many years ago and I havent been able to find it.
Joker and Batman were both displayed as massive lanky beasts with distorted bodies. Big sharp teeth, long fingers and claws. The story was about a guy who was going insane and was mimicking Joker killing his wife. It was as if Batman and Joker weren't really real characters in that universe, but elemental states of the mind.
It's from the same era of comics when Hal Jordan lost Coast city, I remember getting a bunch of comics in a bundle.
I’m more of a marvel fan but that sounds like how Hal jorden in the marvel universe is imagining the dc one.
Did you find the name of this comic? I want to give it a read too. 🦇
This one kid got into a fight at my school because someone took his grapes, he ran up and punched the kid for taking his grapes and he fought back. The kid who started the fight got off Scott free as his family was very wealthy while the kid who defended himself got expelled with a large ammounts of conduct points on his transcript. I’ve taken it upon myself to leave a single grape in every known location the rich kid will be throughout his day, getting increasingly intrusive
Cool story, bro
get in his home, in his sleep, place a grape in his mouth, steal his computer, take away the electronics, fill the inside with crushed grapes
the grape comes nearer
After grape, comes rape.
shit sounds like u the villain here, no man should have his grapes taken without consequence
The fact that Joker hasn't been Second Amendmented by some rando is the what destroys the immersion the most.
Joker probably has a bullet proof vest just in case
Batman’s first attempt at fighting crime was to fund the politician doing the gun ban.
@@joshjo9405 which is a vest, so headshots/limbshots still kill, vests also aren't all that good as they don't work after a few shots
Joker's survived seemingly meeting his end so many times that I don't think anyone believes they can actually kill him.
Gotham seems to be based off of New York, so odds are most law abiding citizens aren’t allowed to carry guns.
The real reason he doesn't kill Joker is kinda because he can't anymore. If he keeps trying to stop him the "right way" then it might stick and then all those people at least died to maintain the ideal of justice. There was some small purpose. He kills Joker? All those deaths immediately become pointless because he ended up killing him anyway and could have just done it earlier.
It's the kind of quandry that could keep you up at night.
Nah. Abstract ideas of justice do nothing to protect the people joker goes out of his way to hurt. If joker were too dead to hurt others, then his terror ends. Abstractions of so called justice just give joker cover.
Batmans unwillingness to change his moral compas results in innocent deaths, the way to hell is paved on good intentions sums up batman very well, and at the end of the day batmans code results in innocent lives being lost. He isnt a good guy, hes an extension of a broken system whos failure to change ruins lives. Batman doesent pull the trigger but he loads the gun and dares it to fire.
Honestly, at some point you just gotta think. "Hey, dude isn't actually 'hurting me' so just go along with it."
It's kind of like when Thanos picked some random kid and showed up every single year on his birthday, starting from the actual day of his birth, and messing up his life in some way every time. Like smashing his dad's car with his dad inside it, or killing his friend, or blowing up his house, or smashing his plumbing to flood his apartment, or killing his cat. For literally no reason other than to cause as much misery as possible to this one specific dude.
I've been using Reddit too much,so..r/fuckyouinparticular
Thanos really said "fuck that one guy in particular".
Funny how I used to say what’s so scary about joker since he was just a guy with no powers but his ability to break people mentally and torment is frightening
I remover reading a comic where they had robin and super boy teaming up.
Super boy was disappointed because he’d always heard how dangerous the criminals in Gotham were, but he had no problem taking out a lot of Batman’s stronger enemies.
Then they walk in on Zazz butchering a family, he looks up and says “sss you’ll wake the baby” super boy promptly has a massive panic attack while robin takes care on business, and states the problem with fighting gothams criminals isn’t a physical challenge, it’s mental one.
He is VERY scary and one of the scariest imo. Not just cause of his abilities but also because of him being a little more realistic. There are psychos in real life that are like him. And other criminals in Gotham.
Realistic villains scare me more than those with powers. Humans can be more scarier, same with wild animals because they’re more realistic. O.O
@@kyriss12May I ask what the comic was?
I can’t remember it was a long time ago
That was AMAZING. I just discovered your channel -- and I'm impressed! (Aside from The Killing Joke, what are the titles and issue numbers of the stories mentioned at the beginning? Those look delightfully creepy too!!) Thank you!
Joker has too much free time
Tommy: “Finally he’s gone”
Joker: *”Im sorry, what?”*
Joker the the most evil DC character
Change my mind
The Marvel equivalent of Joker doing this to a man is Thanos Ruining a Man's life since he was a kid
Lex Luthor doesnt wash his hands
i dont know, darksied and vandal savage are strong contenders. how would we even quantify that ?
Nah that is the mad hatter he has horrible tendencies towards children .
@@LucyWest370 That's not even his most pernicious act. Lex Luthor once stole 40 cakes! That's as much as 4 tens, and that's terrible.
Tommy could've probably saved himself some trouble by just owning a gun from the start.
I remember reading this story -- up until the end I honestly thought that Joker was ultimately creating a henchman.
Do recall the issue? I've been searching all over for it.
I feel like Batman’s line in “Under the Red Hood” perfectly explains why he refuses to kill Joker. Because he knows that he’d never be able to stop until he’s killed every last criminal, and he’d have thrown away every ideal he’s ever held that’s kept him together over the years. The world would be a better place if Joker was dead, but Batman can’t be the one to do it (just look at how Injustice turned out with Superman becoming a dictator)
Edit: for some clarification. When I say “kill every last criminal”, I mean the big ones. If he kills Joker, what’s to stop him from killing Penguin? Or Bane? Or Two-face? They’ve all done awful things too (not to the extent of Joker, but still). To him, if he compromises one ideal, he risks compromising more. That code is what separates him from every other damaged supervillain, it’s what separates his sense of self from that of the Joker. He might not kill anyone else ever again, but he’d have to live with that direct blood forever. Also, in that speech, he says he doesn’t just want to kill Joker, he wants to torture him. Doing that would change Batman forever, it would destroy what his symbol is, the thing that’s kept him going. Is it selfish to not kill Joker? A bit, but it’s still valid
Edit 2: Looks like there’s been a lot of debate in the comment section. So I’ll try and tidy up what I was saying. When people say that Batman is mentally damaged, I agree with that. He watched his parents die right in front of him when he was 8, no one would walk out of that completely together. But to me, that doesn’t make him a coward for refusing to kill/allow anyone to die. To me, there isn’t a clear cut answer to what Batman should do and what the moral ramifications that could bring. Yes, killing the villains who commit these atrocities would save lives in the long run. But to me, it’s always seems easier for people to agree that a fictional character should do that themselves. Believing that the hero should kill the bad guys and being the one to actually take those lives are very different, it’s all a matter of perspective. That doesn’t make the argument that Batman should kill his enemies invalid, it just means it’s more complicated than it’s often made out to be. Some characters are more open to killing villains, others aren’t, and both are valid viewpoints. I just find what makes Batman so complex is his struggle against that urge. To want to kill every villain he goes up against, but he knows what that would do to his symbol. Criminals wouldn’t be the only ones who fear him, the civilians would too (just look at his arc in The Batman and how he went from a force of vengeance to a symbol of hope).
Another thing to mention is this interesting comic pane I saw where Bruce gave Joker CPR after he drowned. He didn’t cause the drowning, and he could have let Joker die. But he had this internal monologue about how his father was a doctor, a healer. And how if he chose to allow someone to die without doing anything, he would be tarnishing the memory of his father. That is what keeps Batman from ending one life to potentially save hundreds, because it would also kill the very memory of why he chose to do this in the first place.
I’m not trying to say that Batman should never kill, and I’m not saying he should kill every villain who regularly kills others. I just want to shine a light on why he still doesn’t kill Joker. (Plus, look at how people reacted to Batfleck and how he killed people on the regular)
And before people bring up the whole “Bruce could help Gotham more using his resources for the city instead of dressing up like a bat”, he does both. He has multiple charities, provides job opportunities to henchman/ex-cons, funds programs to help improve Gotham. Just because he spends his nights dressing like a bat to beat up criminals, doesn’t automatically mean he only uses his money for Batman.
THIS! THANK YOU!!
Yeah, except for the fact that its a petty excuse for why he won't end the life of the one person who's personally caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands. Really great justification. "If I kill this one mass murderer, I won't be able to stop myself from killing jaywalkers"
@@TheChocoboRacer It’s a garbage excuse but it makes sense for Batman. He’s a person with a very messed up psyche so someone with half a well structured mind has to pull the trigger before he can stop them from doing so
Batman can’t even give approval beforehand because in his eyes he’s still killing the Joker himself by letting it happen, so it *has* to be done that way
No vigilante has the right to act as a judge but can be brought in as a jury.
All I hear is that Bruce has zero self control
I like how he just shows up, do a little trolling, and leaves
No harm done, just a little bit of trolling
"No harm done" *kills his roommate, traumatized him and his wife*
@@theparagon2864 *no harm done to him*
@@labbit3574 harm isn't just a physical thing it can be psychological and mental
@@grandmastersubzero1358 stfu let me have fun
Don’t ruin it
@@labbit3574 whatever
I remember from the Batman Animated TV Series were a man sweared at the Joker from a car. The Joker followed him and tortured him the same way for a long while. The cartoon ended good Batman stopped the Joker.
A horror movie with the joker would actually be insane
even the joke that forgetting a birthday of their children is bad even for him.
Joker has not talked to his son and daughter in years
Tommy:YOUR A LONER AND HAVE NO FRIENDS
Joke: I’m going to do what’s called a pro gamer move
Terry: You’re lonely boring, and have no friend
Joker: Listen here you little shit!
This is why Joker is my favorite villain.😂
Joker is the definition of: Just a little trolling
Fun fact Batmans no kill rule was originally a way for DC to avoid being sued for copyright infringement by street and smith. As Bob Kane and Bill Finger had essentially plagiarized the shadow pulp partners in peril for Batmans debut comic.
Except in the original comics Batman killed plenty of people. Hell he straight up killed joker in his first appearance.
The no killing rule is a combination of the comics code authority during the silver age, and dc wanting to keep around the really interesting villains.
You’ll note the punisher doesn’t have a rogues gallery, and that forces his writers to get a lot more creative. It also results in villains that aren’t quite as memorable.
@@kyriss12 With the exception of “The Russian” and “Jigsaw.” But yes.
@@kyriss12 in the original comics?you mean like 8 issues vs thousands of comics where he has a no kill rule?
Bro you can put 'fact' and 'may have' in the same sentence like that lol
You could be an actor for the joker….
I’m not even joking…
No
Funny how you could draw a parallel to CWC from this, but in that case, the ENTIRE world is the Joker…
3:00 the last panel reminds me of JTHM
If the Joker could devote this much time and energy into figuring out Tommy’s identity every time he moved, couldn’t he figure out who Batman is?
Of course. He just doesn't want it. Better view Batman as Batman than some guy in Bat suit
Obviously he can, but he just simply doesn't want to.
In this same book the Joker does know who Batman is.
Joker Endgame
I mean,he probably could if he really wanted to,but I don't think he really does. I think he sees it as a game. Batman is his nemesis,simply figuring out and utilizing his identity would be like cheating. It's like playing a video game. The whole point is to get stronger and beat all the levels,but there wouldn't be much to do if you did.
One if the changes i like that they made in the Arkham series is actually the fact that Joker physically and mentally tortured Jason for a year just like that. Shame the payoff in game was a bit whatever imo, but i would love to see an adaptation of that in the mainstream comics ngl
They did make that into a comic called Arkham Genesis, showing what Joker did to Jason.
That's actuallyl the worst part of the game for me. You would have us believe that Bruce, Dick, Alfred, Barbara would sit around with Superman a literal whisper away for years? Ok I'll believe Bruce would, not a problem. Dick? You're telling me DICK GRAYSON would not be dragging the whole of the Titans to Gotham and ripping that city apart brick by brick by brick till he found his brother?
That ALFRED would not be in the Daily Planet giving Clark the boot out of the his chair to get his ass to Gotham and find his grandson? After weeks, months? Wonder Woman (who adores Jason the most out of the robins) wouldn't be there to slap Bruce's shit around for not calling the League. And before you say the League doesn't exist there, it does, Suicide Squad kills the Justice League is Arkhamverse canon.
@@bulbafett5001 - The Justice League also exists in the DCAU, but the Batfam didn't call them when the Joker kidnapped Tim Drake and tortured him until he was brainwashed.
Superman, the Flash and Wonder Woman constantly have their own crisis to deal with, the can't fight Lex Luthor, Prometheus and Ares with Bruce constantly asking them to check up on Jason or Tim...
@@randallflagg3700 Ther'es a slight difference between Captured and tortured over a day or two like Tim and nearly two years like Jason. Joker didn't send Bruce weekly updates on Tim's brutalization for months and months, nor did he let the entirety of Arkham beat on the kid. Which is the part that really bugs me, like Catman. CATMAN was one of the guys who did this, Catman is not a guy who fucks around with hurting kids or tolerates that shit from others. He also has a major respect for Batman. and like Calenderman or Riddler wouldn't have squealed to get a deal from the cops or Batman. The idea that for years every single villain in Arkham was able to maintain this secret PLUS not a single member of the Batfamily, not Bruce, Alfred, Dick, Barbara or Kate did a thing to look outside of Gotham for help.
Even if you somehow believe Bruce and Alfred did nothing at all and Barbara just gave the fuck up. You're telling me Dick Grayson would be doing a single other thing than ripping Gotham apart with his bare fucking hands until he found his brother alive or dead. And that he wouldn't call the Titans to help him regardless of what Bruce wants?
The guy who beat the Joker to death over mocking Jason's death. That guy, the guy who routinely summons the Titans to just *stomp the fuck* out problems, at least until DC forgot he has a phone, brain cells that work and friends.
@@bulbafett5001 - Tim Drake wasn't tortured for a day or two, he was tortured for *3 weeks* at the abandoned Arkham Asylum.
You'd think Batman would ask for the Justice League's help after a few days at worst... and that he would have looked there sooner.
Also, I wouldn't worry too much about the stuff that is in *Arkham Knight: Genesis* since it's non-canon.
But when it comes to Catman, he's pretty different when he's written by Gail Simone...
Last time we saw him before Gail picked him up was in Brad Meltzer's Green Arrow run, where he was a real scumbag.
And recently, in *"The Joker Annual 2021"* , Catman was happy to work for the Joker, and tried to kill Batgirl.... and taunted Jim Gordon about what happened to his friend Harvey Dent.
When he isn't written by Gail Simone, he isn't particularly honorable/respectful.
Joker as yellow lantern could be horrific.
Batman not killing joker is the most evil part of this entire universe. There is a difference between murder and killing.
now personally i WOULD NOT let that slide
There is alot of weapons in Gotham, alot of opportunities and a man who lost it all?
Why didn't he do what a sane person would do?
Become Punisher...
Because that's what Jason Todd is all about.
Even then, he'd eventually have to meet with Batman which would probabky kick his ass badly
Mostly because of fucken Batman who would stop you from killing criminals, aka why Red Hood spends half his time dodging Batman and only other half shooting.
love how you can get the death sentence for killing a person in self defense but joker torturing, stealing, terrorizing, threatening, blackmailing, making gangs, using drugs, is enough to put him in a badly secured cell
I'm a don't kill kind of person, but at the same time there's shit like this. In times like this I channel one of my favorite dnd characters: Chie Tsudonen. She's logical, empathetic, but willing to kill if she knows it's for the best.
Bitboringngl
I still don't understand why no one has been able to just cap him. I get that it's because people are too afraid of Joker to apparently even attempt to bring their own gun, but like, why???? It only takes one bullet.
What if you miss?
@@ztmackin Fucking fire again, he's not faster than a bullet
@@ztmackin then I guess no one should ever try anything that has any risk to it
Plot Armour lol. Joker has very little benefit to anyone and is a problem/headache for both heroes and villains alike the bounty on his head should be so high people are coming to Gotham in droves specifically to take his life.
One of the better Joker stories I've read for sure. It's up there for sure
*Joker:* boo.
*Tom:* AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
4:27 that right hand panel reminds me of the Under the Red Hood Joker design so much
Really enjoy your channel and how many stories you talk about that i've never heard of before. I feel like this is the creepiest stuff Joker can do in Gotham. Stalking a random civilian just to prove a point is so scary
Joker is messed up. No one can play mind games quite like him. I remember once in a comic, Joker kidnapped and killed some people. Everytime he'd kidnap a person, batman would search for them and then find them dead. Then one time joker kidnapped another person (I think it was a girl) and batman looked for her. He found where she was kept and to his surprise he found her alive. After apprehending joker batman asked him why he kept this girl alive. Joker said, "Cause now, you'll never truly know"... Cold shit.
@@harshjain9615 cant believe I just now saw this but that is a cold line from the Joker. Do you remember the comic?
@@harshjain9615 Truly know what?
Joker hugging Tommy is somehow funny 💀 it really shouldn't be
Dude had his own face cut off just to prove a point about being consistent
“I’m just dying in your arms tonight. It must’ve been something you said”
This has the same energy as the time Thanos went out of his way to ruin one random guy's entire life by showing up and doing something awful every single year on his birthday starting when he was a kid.
It actually started earlier... Like when the guy's born.
@@melvinfranco2142 Yup. Without fail. Every year. On his birthday. Starting with the day he was born.
@@GuukanKitsune How in the world didn't the Avengers try to stop the psychotic cosmic killer from simply ruining this guy's birthday with bad luck?
@@melvinfranco2142 Because him picking on just one guy isn't an Avengers level threat.
@GuukanKitsune Well, that's one way to ruin the Avenger's role as Earth's Mightiest Heroes.
1:52
“Tommy accidentally lets out a snort in fear”
… What? The hell are you talking about? He was laughing, dude. He literally says he finds the situation funny and was laughing at him. How the hell do you get a “snort of fear” from that?
In fact, what he says next it wasn’t a desperate attempt to survive at all! It was his honest to god opinion of the Joker and why he was hilarious in a twisted, cosmically-pathetic sort of way.
He probably was trying to say that he lets out a snort and is in fear afterwards
2:45 If this is what it looks like the writers made ol’ Tommy totally deserve his fate.
TBH, if Joker decided to be my friend, I'd just embrace it, like fuck it lol.
Might as well join him in the madness lol