Hello! What do you think of my analysis? Any differing interpretations? Anything you think I missed? There's a lot of strangeness to this game and I could totally understand people taking it a different way. Art interpretation should be treated as a conversation, so I've listed some discussion questions below to kick-start analysis beyond what I did in the video! If you have the means, any and all support on Patreon (link in description) means the world to me and really helps me keep this going. Currents perks are just name in credits, early access, Discord server, and update posts. I’m going to rework the Patreon in a few months so I’ll save the stronger pitch til then! 1. What is the deal with Ancients, in general? Is there any meaning to them being the only unique constant between SPM and the first two Paper Marios? Do they symbolize/represent anything particular? I'm a bit lost when it comes to them. 2. Where they particular little side characters or details you found meaningful in Flopside and Flipside? I describe the areas in broad strokes, but there's a lot of smaller stuff that could be studied more closely. 3. Nastasia! I didn't really find space to talk about her in this video, as I kind of saw her arc are mirroring those of other characters without adding anything unique. What sort of wrinkle does she provide to the game's writing? Anything? That it's good to love even if you end up rejected?
1. I think it's a well-established part of both tabletop RPG tradition and video game RPG tradition that by leaving space for an ancient civilization, you leave room for depth in sequels or in spiritual successors to games. You see this pay off in games like Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, and I imagine that a lot of the unused lore in Hollow Knight was to leave a large amount of potential energy for Silksong. But if somehow Breath of the Wild bombed then Tears would have never been made and the ancient civilization stuff in Breath would have no resolution. If Silksong never releases then a lot of Hollow Knight content will never see resolution. I think that's what happened here. The fact that the Ancients are both constant across two Paper Mario games and largely undefined suggests to me that there was a backroom "trilogy capstone" to the Ancients storyline, but because of consumer response, it never saw the light of day. 3. NASTASIA! She's so central to the themes you bring up, right? She has the power to brainwash Peach into saying "I do" for the person she loves, yet she is wise enough to not brainwash Count Bleck into saying "I do" to her. Not ONLY does she have this power, the use of this power is our establishing shot of who she is as a character...and only later do we realize she is in love with the Count. As a side character with so little dialogue, I take that order of operations to also be useful in interpreting what she's doing thematically, as a character. According to the wiki, Carson of the Overthere Bar has lore that matches up with Nastasia, painting her as originally being a bat, which in a game of true forms and alternate forms, is interesting - the bat is depicted at best as being a pest, and in relation to love, the closest relationship is a vampire - she is expected, by symbolism, to be the most exploitative and controlling lover. But in so many ways, Nastasia uniquely defies expectations. She is a secretary with like 90% of her lines dedicated to sticking to her schedule, yet she is the only one who wishes to not follow the ultimate schedule, the Prognosticus. She is shown to be this brainwashing expert, yet when it comes to matters of her own heart, she never abuses that power in the coercive way we're taught to expect from Super Paper Mario villains. And I think the game acknowledges her uniqueness. She is the only employee to whom Count Bleck gives permission to leave with his blessing, despite being at the height of his power. This is rendered less significant by the fact that his minions are crazy goofballs rather than thoughtful individuals who all might have reasons to leave, but I think it's still interesting that he sees her disagreement with him as being worthy of respect. Also, to your point about how we are only able to love when we are human and vulnerable, Nastasia is a consistent, almost exhausting showcase of vulnerability. She is rejected, not just in love but in her calls to stop the Dark Lord of Fate stuff, over and over, yet she keeps trying. She's not just stoic either - she yells and enacts petty punitive measures on other employees, and is the harshest in the scenes following the Count rejecting her as a love interest. She's very human, not a slinky-shaped gymbro or trauma spider or fuckboi clown. She's emotional, she puts herself out there, she gets burned - like it's her fate - but she doesn't submit to the grind. She gets up and puts herself out there all over again the next day (Chapter). And when the game is over, if you seek out all the minions of Mr. Bleck again, Nastasia is the most transparently vulnerable there too, in her struggles, and in her hopes for the future. Again, not as significant as it could be with more fleshed-out characters. Mimi is a horror movie child and O'Chunks is a dumbass. Overall, Nastasia is shallow as a character as most of the characters are in Super Paper Mario, because...they don't have enough dialogue and the game is not sure what it wants to be. But given the foundation of your thesis, I think it's plausible to build Nastasia up as an example of Luigi's ultimate foil. Luigi is given legitimately every opportunity to grow into "healthy love" (being open with vulnerability, getting over his insecurities, taking off suspicious plants you find growing on your head, understanding self-worth and relating that to sacrifice, therapy, etc) in the story, but doesn't and nearly ends the world because of it. Nastasia is given legitimately every opportunity to grow into "unhealthy love" (being less vulnerable, becoming insecure or jaded, brainwashing people into loving her, refusing to sacrifice herself for love, etc) in the story...but she chooses not to and nearly saves the world because of it. Or maybe she even saves the world by saving the Count maybe. Lots of thoughts on Nastasia. #bestgirl
1. no idea. the thing with the ancients is that, as noted, they derive from the prior 2 paper mario games, themselves building off of super mario rpg which featured a group of "shaman" characters of identical appearance, though their roles ranged from being unimportant NPCs to full fledged enemies. these shaman characters in super mario rpg are themselves inspired by the final fantasy series and the presence of cloaked magical guys in those games (prior to tetsuya nomura bringing in an edgier group of cloaked guys after the release of super mario rpg). for all i know it could simply just be a nod to the first paper mario
1. I don't know if this matters, but in the Kirby games there is also a group of ancient extinct dimension traveling beings called the ancients, who have prophecy about a dark God called Void Termina, or just Void in the true arena. Not sure if they're the same people or if nintendo just likes to reuse their lore. 2. When you release the fish to take the fishbowl, he grows to massive size, has several children and seemingly kills other fish judging by all the skeletons. 3. She made for an interesting enemy, shame that she didn't get a proper boss battle!
i always found Nastasia's post game dialogue quite poignant: "Blumiere was reunited with Lady Timpani, and the world wasn't destroyed after all." "I guess I should be happy... I mean, I am, but, um..." "I just don't think my heart has fully accepted the fact that he isn't here anymore." "...Now I understand what it was like when Blumiere turned into Count Bleck." "If I have to live on with this feeling always burning inside me..." "Yeah, then maybe there never was any point to that other world..." "...I wonder...if this is how I'll spend the remainder of my days..." "Yeah... Or maybe I'll learn to smile again and look forward to the future..." "If I can't...then I suppose I could never have matched up to Lady Timpani anyway..." It's honestly a sad but very human part of her character and in a sense shows the theme of sacrifice in a different sort of way.
Somebody brought this very neat detail to my attention: Count Bleck end his sentences in "...Said Count Bleck" because he's (probably) following the Dark Prognocticus word by word. He's not himself, he's doing everything the book has dictated him to do.
This is definitely at least thematically true, though the excerpts we get of the Dark Prognosticus elsewhere and the way less on-the-nose way he speaks in the Japanese version (which evokes the reading of a story iirc, but doesn't itself really read like he's directly quoting anything) make it unlikely he's literally reading his own lines from it. However, it is absolutely true that Count Bleck's actions and state of mind are strongly informed by the inexorable pull of fate and the dark influence of the Prognosticus.
I could believe this is not true, but rather, what Blumiere wants truth to be. It also serves as a way disconnect everything he says from his old self, to make clear that he, who talks, is Count Bleck.
Hearing the line "less than 1% of Super Paper Mario players found the story to be interesting" again was just as jarring as when I heard it the first time. Even as an ignorant young kid, I was always fascinated with the story of this game and it is one of the main reasons as to why it's one of my favorite games of all time.
@@phantom-ri2tg A forum made right after the game launch, most of people didn't care about story and they said that they like platmorming and the 3d mechanic better, which is also the reason Paper mario Sticker star had so little history that bowser doesn't even talk for the whole game.
@@axr1798 I see. Still sometimes feedback needs to be combed through. A lot of people who would not take notice of a good story will take notice of a bad story.
@@phantom-ri2tgIt was on a poll site that would give you gifts the more polls you did. The first option was “I didn’t like the story”. You can probably figure out what happened from there.
I think the most important moment in the game, the one that is absolutely needed for its messages to work, was when Mario was asked to help and could say "No." It comes off as a gag, but without the ability to choose the sacrifice doesn't matter.
It goes well with the Light Prognosticus. In which says how the world can be saved, but doesn't ever guarantee that it will happen. Essentially being a mini message of "Good things will happen once you take an initiative"
I think the Pixl uprising in the backstory has a clear and deeply resonant reading that harmonizes well with the rest of the story. It is as follows: The tribe of Ancients built their society on slavery. That is what doomed them. That is why their civilization fell. No matter how thorough it is, you cannot maintain coercion forever. But, rather than re-evaluating what sort of society they had built, liberating their artificial life-forms, and trying to cooperate with them, the Ancients concluded that the problem was with the nature of Pixls -- not with their relationship to them. Merlon turning Timpani into a Pixl as a way to save her life rather than a way to exploit her, and continuing to treat her as a person rather than a tool, is the sort of approach that was needed. Not only did it work, she maintained her agency, regained her old memories, and remained a positive force rather than a destructive one. But regardless of what might otherwise have been, the Ancients of the past didn't know how to function without their slaves, and so their society fell to ruin when they could no longer maintain their coercive dominance. The Pixl Queen is a reflection of how repression and cruelty drive their victims to respond with violence in turn in a last, desperate attempt to regain what was taken from them -- much like how Blumiere transformed into Bleck in defiance of a world that denied him any chance of what he felt was a life worth living. It is worth mentioning here that the Pixl Queen herself, the first Pixl, was once the daughter of the Pixls' creator, so a similar relationship as between Merlon and Tippi should have been possible. In fact, if anything, it should have been easier. The one remaining gap here would be to suggest that the love the creator had for his daughter was more the possessive type exhibited by Francis. It is, sadly, hardly unknown for parents to treat their children, and especially daughters, like this. This is especially likely in a society built around ideas of dominance and control -- for example, one which keeps and relies on the labor of slaves. Now, granted, this reading is heavily informed by my own philosophical positions outside of the game, but I do think that the text of the game itself is fully consistent with it.
it reveals an interesting discrepancy between the way the Tribe of Ancients is described by its descendants like Merlon, and the reality of its going-ons, including not just child enslavement and literal de-humanization, but also splinter factions like the Tribe of Darkness.
Thank you for spending the time to type this all out! It really is an interesting piece of storytelling hidden so deep in the game (pre-Dark Souls, too). None of the other SPM videos I watched even mentioned it iirc. Ultimately it still isn't satisfying to me because it doesn't address my main criticism of the Pixls as a story element: that their agency and individuality is completely disregarded by the game part of the game. So the fact that the Pixl Queen story is competently written and thematically consistent really proves that they should've known better. Maybe I'm being a bit harsh...
@@SkyehoppersOh, I agree. What's there is _very_ sparse. The game never actually calls what the Ancients did slavery, for example, but what else could it be if sentient beings are used as tools? From there, we can consider things like repression and control. The Pixl Queen being the first Pixl and also the daughter of their original creator is in there, and from that it becomes clear that she was a person, and we know people don't just up and destroy the civilization they're in for the heck of it, or because they're bored. Combine that with the slavery bit, though, and suddenly we've got ourselves probable cause. My reading takes the various pieces that we have, places them in the context of the rest of the game, and asks what would make it all cohere. Think of it as doing academic-style history for a fictional world as though it were a real one. I think it works pretty well, but it's certainly not the only reading you can give, precisely because the direct information is so fragmentary and buried. Whether any of my reading was actually intended, who can say. Maybe if given a bit more time, it would have been further fleshed out. Or maybe not. Maybe such potentially subversive themes would not be allowed in more explicit form. Maybe the writers even thought that the Ancient civilization that relied on Pixls were the good guys, and that the Pixl Queen was a villain. If that was their angle and it were made explicit, it would make the story a whole lot worse, instead of better. Either way, though, this is a thing with a lot of somewhat clumsy stories, actually -- that the story that we can excavate through deep reading and interpretation is actually deeper and more interesting than the one that's present at the surface of the text. Doesn't invalidate the rest of what the story does right, though, at least, and it's fun to talk about.
this is just me spitballing but at 15:48 its mentioned that his dimension makes dimentio and mario 256 more powerful, the 8 bit max value is 255, if over that, it overflows back to 0, which could basically mean that the dimension doesnt do squat to them or in other words, its a programming joke
that's a funny reading of that scene, although i feel like it's more of an easter egg than an explanation, since dimentio does explicitly say during his defeat that you were also affected by the box's power increase. (also, as a minor sidenote, since 256 would overflow to exactly zero, and dimentio said the magic _multiplied_ their power by that much, then for them to be unaffected by the magic at all they'd have to be 257x stronger. 256 would make all their attacks do zero damage as opposed to being unaffected)
@@goldenpig6453 Dimentio could have just been messing with you about it increasing your power. He was not even the one who said it and it is highly unlikely he wouldn't have known how his own ability working.
@@Tree_-wp5znWhat do you mean by "256 includes zero"? The maximum value that can be stored in 8 bits is 255. Adding 1 results in an overflow. 8 bit arithmetic is the same as modulo 256, in which 256 = 0.
One of Carson’s stories explains why flipside and flopside both exist: “So Flipside's convenient, created by Ancients in a space between dimensions. That means you can open up portals to all the other worlds from there. But on the other hand, it's strangely susceptible to influences from other worlds... So the Ancients built the town in a way that would stabilize this effect. And that particular way was... Do you know what? The town was build in duplicate with both Flipside and Flopside versions! They realized that light without dark, or vice versa, would never be stable. You need both sides for perfection, you know? Having two opposite sides is the secret of the town's stability and longevity.”
@@xaf15001 Unlike the ancient society, they literally needed to build a town in a parallel dimension for the town to exist. Flipside and Flopside are only separate due to the amount of time passed leading to not many people knowing how to access the parallel dimension to their own. And heck, a pipe maker due fixes that problem for only 200 coins. The Ancients had serious problems, but I think this is one of the times they did okay.
I think the contradiction with the Pixls could've easily been a lot better if they directly taught you abilities (Slim, Thudley, Fleep) or gave you key items (Thoreau, Boomer, Cudge etc) as a keepsake for setting them free, instead of the actual Pixls themselves joining you as nothing but a tool. Perhaps this way the game could also let them chill around in Flipside (or wherever they'd prefer to reside), giving you more ways to interact with them as actual characters. EDIT: With this I think it could be even cooler to then keep Barry completely unchanged, since he was never trapped when you met him, and he just joins you out of his own volition anyway. Chill dude just hangs around because he likes to
@@F1areonIronically, yeah. Luigi did nothing in this game. Sure, he can help get a few items or solve a few puzzles, but he doesnt cause any important story beats, really. He never convinces someone to do something, he doesn't really make the sacrifice. Mr L, that's dimentio doing it through him. Even in his big sacrifice, not only is it useless and doesn't stop dimentio, it's not even a real sacrifice. He doesn't die. Even though both prophecies said that the man in green's actions would lead to salvation or obliteration, it was his inaction that truly laid the groundwork for the devil to find defeat.
@memelescream4796 It is ambiguous if Mr L was fully a puppet of Dimentio or a split personality based on the more negative aspects of Luigi (as pointed out based on earlier Paper Marios) but it is interesting if he is fully a puppet because that means his time to shine was kept being interrupted by something else hehe.
i lost my husband suddenly last june and this video literally gave me back some of the hope ive lost. i hope tomorrow i can wake up again when i didnt before, if only to sacrifice some of myself for others. to give back to the world the love my husband gave to me. thank you.
Love is the most powerful force in the universe! Even in death those we love lasts eternally. I hope you find your way through this, for you are strong and honorable to believe in helping the world. It really is an amazing outlook. I wish you the best of luck
Here's how the Mimi chase works: She doesn't seem to really be chasing you, the game just spawns her at whatever door you came into a room from if you take too long to leave it, and she attacks as usual. The window is decent, the only time Mimi should appear is if you're dawdling or fumble a bit of platforming. I forget if she stays in the room for a moment if she spawns in it and you leave it, but either way she's not a threat if you just keep moving. There's also this one secret that takes full advantage of the ongoing chase. Behind one of the signs in the rooms is an explodable wall, leading to a lengthy hallway to a powerful item (of which I forget what it was). If you go for it, Mimi is 100% going to have time to spawn, but you do get a strong item. Play with a particularly bratty fire, and see if you can get your reward without getting burned.
I lost my copy of the game somewhere, but I really wanna know what that secret item was. I COULD have bought the game on the Wii U eShop before, but I decided against it because "oh I have the game already I don't need to buy it again.". Boy, do I regret that choice.
a very easy way to avoid Mimi catching you is by using Slim's ability and standing still. This makes you both invisible and invincible, and after a time she'll just leave. Found it out as a kid after deciding to test if that facet of Slim's ability works on a boss like it does a standard enemy lol.
My interpretation for Dimentio "killing" the characters is that he simply teleports them into the Underwhere, with a bunch of explosions on top of it to make it appear as they have died. We see that, when he teleports something or someone, it's thanks to this square that he makes appear, and the explosions that "kill" the characters also appear within a square like the one he uses to teleport things and people. So I really think that he faked killing them, only teleporting them into the Underwhere. They weren't killed, causing them to appear there, they were just teleported there while still alive. That's why Jaydes lets them go. They're not dead.
I've seen this a lot, and maybe, but it's a lot more fun to assume he killed them as an axis to teleport them to the underwhere, and whereas normally they'd have fifty extra one ups in the back pocket, him killing them let him teleport them there instead of them reviving with a one up.
I love how the whole of chapter 6 is just a big rough retelling of the Divine Comedy, complete with Bonechill being Lucifer all icey and six-winged, a Virgil-figure (Luvbi), climbing up a purgatory mountain to reach heaven, and a funny Italian in a funny red hat just that Mario doesn’t mention Florence once unlike Dante who insists on mentioning it every other verse. It’s amazing to me how of all things Mario decided to parallel, it was the Divine Comedy. I know it’s probably because funny Italians in funny red hats and a whole Heaven-Hell theme but it’s still neat!
I have always cried at the ending. Seeing Blumiere and Timpani happy, even if they’ve passed on. This was a very good story and surprisingly deep for Mario. I am grateful for its place in video game history
I love the little snippets that build it up. The game preps you up for a tragedy, and even then it still hits like a truck. The story is executed that well, English wasn't even the original language.
I feel like the part where mario himself says they have no time to grieve when luigi is assumed dead says a lot about him and his resolve in all of this. The story is so focused on love but when it comes to the people he himself loves, mario puts his own feelings aside. He dosent go on this journey for the sake of love but because he has to and he needs to see it through no matter what it costs him. There probably is an even deeper understanding to him from this but it always bothered me how when tippi was processing that luigi was gone, mario was the one to urge them to move on. Also, my favorite part of this game is when luvbi becomes the pure heart and if you have luigi out he just goes "okie dokie" fucking decimating the entire emotional moment😂
One thing not said is that the Light Prognosticus was not written as a true book of prophecies. Unlike the Dark Prognosticus it was never meant to be fate, just a book on how to stall fate. The Dark Prognosticus is the one true prophecy and will come to pass one day, just not today.
@@casesater It's not a for sure detail. Carson has some dialogue when he speaks about Dimentio that hints towards this, meaning it's a commonly held headcanon (one that I subscribe to). It's hardly more than a few sentences though so it can't be considered fully canon, although there are some in game things that can also be used as evidence (i.e. dimentio seeming to know the prognosticus incredibly well himself unlike the other minions)
I actually love that it left things untied, that’s just how life is. Nothing is tied in a nice bow, time always matches on and there is nothing to be done, we only see a small window in the lives of the characters
Plus, for specifically the Pixls, it would have to be post-postgame in the first place, as them accompanying Mario is a necessity to be able to fully explore the levels. Granted, this is something they could've done remedied similarly to TTYD where the partners simply caught wind of your return and were waiting to join back with you. Just have them accompany Merlon when he greets you upon coming back to Flipside, and have him say something along the lines of "these Pixls have been casually living in Flipside with us, I called them here upon seeing signs you might be coming back". (Maybe some of the NPCs around town can also speak about how they've lived with said Pixls around them too, not in servitude but just coexisting in the same town peacefully)
"[Mario's] potential for growth or meaning is severely limited by his existence as an unalterable brand" is such a wonderful encapsulation of why the spinoff mario games, specifically the RPGs are the only part of the mario universe has ever engaged me.
Even in its simplest form it's so cool playing Super Mario RPG and everyone recognizes you as a hero and it makes you feel good playing as this notable hero instead of just playing as a random avatar that can be replaced by blue or yellow toad with no changes.
I think part of the reason why so few people found the story interesting is because that they weren’t interested in the story to begin with. It has a lot of meaningful messages which this analysis does a good job of shining light on, but when it’s mostly ignored people will just end up noticing the cliches and ignoring the symbolism, which really is a shame.
Could also have to do with the way Club Nintendo surveys were structured. You would get extra gold points for filling out a survey for a game you had bought, so on top of not a lot of people making use of the feature since internet wasn't that mainstream at the time yet, many of the people who *did* take advantage of it were smart enough to figure out that they could game it for easy points. People would buy a game, go to survey, click through all the questions, and receive their points before actually playing the game. We don't have any screenshots of *that* poll specifically, but other polls like it tended to have a scale of 0-10 you could select from, with 0 being the option at the very top, and 10 being down at the bottom. So naturally people who are just spamming through would probably select options somewhere between the top or middle of the screen because they take the least amount of time to select.
@@EmeraldMan25 When I heard less than 1% I was very doubtful that statistic was right. You don't need to appreciate the deeper messages of the game to still like the story.
Regarding the "games not truly being over" stuff in the Underwhere, I believe it's exactly what's said on the tin - Mario, Luigi, and the others don't _actually_ die. I'm pretty sure the glass box and explosions are all just a showman's flashy smokescreen for the crowd while he instead directly teleports his victims elsewhere. A magician's trick - a misdirection to wow the audience and divert their attention from the manipulations he doesn't want them seeing. We know he's capable of transporting other people through dimensions from his rescue of Peach, and, of course, neither him nor Luigi end up dying when he does the same after their grudge match in Castle Bleck. -If you do drugs, you go to hell -*-before-*- you die.-
This is exactly how I interpreted it. It's clear Dimentio is acting as a master manipulator, puppeteering literally everyone in the story towards his own goal and uses trickery and illusions to do so while maintaining the appearance of simply being one of Count Bleck's followers
100% this is also my thinking. Dimentio does explicitly say that he sent us to the next world (the Underwhere) intentionally. So while he framed it as "killing" us, it is more likely that he merely telephoned us there with our lives very much intact. If we had truly been killed by Dimentio, I imagine Mario and crew would have appeared as Shadys in the Underwhere and Peach as a Nimbi.
The fact that the first thing Timpani hears Blumiere say is "Bleeeechhhh" when he's at his then-lowest point and is actively putting himself down for what he is has now been added to my soul and makes me go "oh. Oh okay it was always just like that." This has always been a game of trying to find more messages in it than it has the time to possibly illustrate. I've always -obviously - seen it as a game that plays with Paper Mario's penchant for storytelling. The first game being a literal "Mario Story" to aggrandize Mario's adventures in a classical form, fully exploring what it means to have a narrative in Mario and why that world matters. The second a tackling of Mario through other stories, his own place in them as an unflappable protagonist being a humorous through-line to celebrate narrative in a tounge-in-cheek way. And Super, obviously, a story of love, and how the different types of love - devotion to duty, devotion through monetary gain, ownership, vanity, ennui for a love yet undiscovered - are embodied through chapter-critical characters like Fracktail, Mimi, Francis, Squirps, Lubvi, etc. And how ultimately, it's the pure sentiment of that love and the willingness to see in through, in spite of the cost, that makes it meaningful... and that's embodied in Mario somehow because he's a good guy with an earnest heart wahoo it's a me believe in the Mario who believes in your love. Ultimately, this essay feels as a strong way of straightening the ship, of taking the meaning out of Mario's hands but beyond it and to something more meaningful. And that's really lovely, thank you for that.
Just wanna add a chilling detail about the underworld river music- if you speed it waaaaaaay up, it says the words "Save us, please!" Just KNOWING that detail makes it all the more unsettling, you're being begged by suffering sinners to save them from this torment, but slowed waaaaaaay down so it can never reach you... ☹️🥶
Something I'm suprised you didnt mention with the name of the video, is how things bookend. The game starts and ends with a vow all too well known, "To love and to cherish, till your games be over" or "till death do us part". A literal understanding and acceptance of deaths inevitability, but choosing love and live on anyway.
my greatest dream ever since i was a kid was to see it as a movie. and since we just got a pretty cute and fun mario movie, that hope is coming back (even though i know its just copium but lemme dream yknow?) crossing my fingers for mario movie 2 or 3 or anything really to make an spm adaptation ;-;
I think IMO how The Super Mario Bros movie was rushed and frankly a shallow story is why I'm not optimisitc Illumination will adapt a story like this - I feel the movie didn't even verge the level of Paper Mario 64 which had emotional moments like the first climb to Shooting Star Summit where Mario and Goombario felt the weight of the mission, to not only save the princess, but also save everyone's wishes, and I hope those emotional moments would've added to the movies and not just shoehorned IMO.
Agreed so hard; I have *never* wanted a movie or series adaptation of anything more than I've wanted one for Super Paper Mario 😭 the entire presentation of the game, the whole Shakespearean epic feel of it, carried greatly by THE SOUNDTRACK with the reoccurring leimotifs, is just BEGGING to be made into a movie. A series, ideally, like an anime, to do the entire story justice and properly flesh out some things not explored enough in the game (complete with MORE BLUMIERE AND TIMPANI FLASBACKS, PLUS ONES FOR THE MINIONS.....), but beggars can't be choosers so I would accept a movie (probably cutting the most "unnecessary" pure heart chapters for time) if that was what we got. Hell, the story is prime material for a musical format as well; look no further than the original SPM musical songs by Man On The Internet here on youtube, which capitalized on this idea....! I would sell my goddamn soul for just SOMETHING to be done with this beautiful story. I still remember when the Mario movie was announced, the tiny bit of hopium I had..... 😭but like the other comment said, I don't really have hope anymore that any other movies in that line could ever be serious or complex enough to properly adapt SPM's story, which is incredibly frustrating. I've never minded SPM being a Mario game, but this is exactly what makes adapting it so difficult and unlikely to happen, because as this video discusses, Mario Peach and Bowser (and to a lesser extent but still, Luigi) are not really their own characters, they are protagonist stand-ins so a compelling story can be carried by original characters around them, where so much of the heart (ha) and meat is, yet an adaptation would still mostly have to follow the heroes (though I would also not at all be opposed to an adaptation from the Bleck crew pov....), giving them more depth than the existing Mario movie seemingly really knew how to do. If there was any reason I wish it had been its own separate game instead, it would be this (along with the bitter thought that it wouldn't have gotten all the hate it did if it wasn't tied to the paper mario franchise and thus burdened by the expectations so many people had for what a paper mario game's gameplay was meant to look like...... sigh) Anyway, someone please make a SPM movie or series happen. I don't know who, I don't know how, but I'd fund it with everything I have 😭😭😭
37:15 i guess they present this "positively" because Mario treats them right, the Pixl's are happy to be with Mario and just they have nothing to say to the group because being trapped alone for so long leaves with little interesting topics that get used up by the time their introduction chapter ends
They aren’t kept captive by Mario, so they aren’t that mad. But yeah, these are the original Pixls, they weren’t feared to rebel because they were simple creatures, seemingly not retaining much of the original soul that was used to make them.
"The Underwhere" is actually just named "Under Land" in the original Japanese version of the game. So that was just a dumb joke that the English localization team came up with for the game. Also, "The Overthere" was originally named "Sky Land."
The joke honestly really fits the series humor so I’m glad that they did it. I think what makes it work more is that there wasn’t any special attention given to its name; it’s just called the Underwhere and people just accept that.
The English localization of this game is, no exaggeration, some of the best in Nintendo's library. I don't know what was going on at NOA at the time, but they were really having a good time with their work.
"Under" Land... Colorful hearts related to souls defeat the twist villain... Villain merges its body with another... Two characters of different species with a tragic past, talking on a black screen, planning on leaving a place together... Afterwards, one of the characters is turned into a nonsentient living creature... One also goes through a personality change into an over-the-top villain... I wonder if Toby Fox played this game in his youth.
@@zjzr08 I once heard a theory that the land of the living could be referred to as the "Righthere" (Right here!) It's such a good joke and continuation of the clever wordplay I'm surprised it was never brought up in the game itself.
The symbolism of the choice to be the hero and take the first pure heart asks the untold question: Do you love the world? If you don't love the world you're trying to save, how can you possibly be the hero that saves it?
I love that The Underwhere is also apparently called World -1 by some in universe, being a nice nod to the glitchy World -1 from the original Super Mario Bros
god as someone who isnt and wasnt raised christian i can completely miss some themes or symbolism, and hearing 'the story of jesus christ' hit me like a bag of bricks thrown from a moving car
Yeah when you have a Christian upbringing or even just live in a place that's dominated by Christianity practically every story of sacrifice reads as a Jesus parallel, especially if they later come back. I wonder if other religions have story structures that always read as religious to them in a similar way.
as someone who is and was raised Christian, those themes still went way over my head as a kid, only to smack me with a bag of bricks from a moving car, as you said.
It’s never occurred to me until now that Dimentio’s big power, with the glass panes and fire, basically only serve to deal minor damage and otherwise just distract you from its real ability to teleport. Fire and glass panes. Literally Smoke and Mirrors. GodDAMMIT, Super Paper Mario.
This was a fun watch. I have never realised that the narrative always focuses on coercion and control and not just when it's about Luigi and Dimentio. Such an interesting deconstruction of themes in a way that makes it feel like it should've been obvious from the start
Being vague so I don't ruin the buildup for others but I will say this: Part 2 makes a compelling, if indirect, case for how complex and involved the character arcs and inner world of Waluigi could be.
I’ve heard a theory many years ago that Mr. L was this fellow named Luigi, but I don’t recall a character named Luigi, the only ones I remember are Mario, Bowser, Peach, and Green Mario
I'd never given this game this much thought, but your breakdowns about how each Pure Heart stands for a different type or expression of love and how the theme of control is a constant throughout are so obvious in retrospect. I'm glad you made this and pointed those out!
I have a thought of why Flopside might be in such rough shape beyond just its mirrored form of Flipside, as a serial Super Paper Mario enjoyer, and that is that it may be a remnant of lands belonging to the Tribe of Darkness. The Tribe of Ancients, too, tragically, was lost over and to time, but their legacy seems much more preserved, with members having birthed many many predecessors. By contrast, the Tribe of Darkness lost most of its members very very quickly due to pretty serious lore-related reasons. This could've left these lands pretty seriously under-maintaned, as compared to other worlds occupied by those who were in the Ancients; even places like Yold Town seem pretty well-preserved SPOILERS, but I find it interested that Luvbi as a Pure Heart seems to suggest that the 'pureness' one of the hearts possesses, becomes most complex, less 'pure', when she is made into a Nimbi. These angels are not 'pure', they speak about kicking ass, cower, and act aloof. It is a selfless act by Luvbi that transforms her back into a Pure Heart, but she is restored to life later, to a more complex form. Thise doesn't have an overarching message, but I do find it interesting. you know what its implied that dimentio has mostly just- TELEPORTED, them, to hell. which, of course, does make me wonder- Dimentio. Hey, buddy. Whyyyy, do you know about hell It took a while, but the long journey thru the World of Nothing is most certainly you going the entire rest of the 70 doorways to where King Sammer sat with his Pure Heart before he was consumed Because the other worlds seem uniquely ALL stylized similarly, and marked by little digitalized-like quirks and with strange equations and patterns in the skies and landscapes themselves... Did... Did the Ancients create all these worlds? And actually, a question I've had since realizing Queen Jaydes has the same theme as Merlee- Were she and Grambi once Ancients, too?...
Getting to the part about the Pixls, it reminds me why I might've fallen for Kingdom Hearts later in the same way as Super Paper Mario: Unexpected bright and colorful part-RPG, part-platformer hiding great complexity and darkness, greatly centered around the bonds of love and friendship and hearts, with a wacky set of main characters and a LOT of supporting ones, in which *SPOILERS* the optional lore backstory explains that in the ancient past, literal CHILDREN were both manipulated into almost destroying the world and turned into TOOLS, not necessarily in that order; and I find that just FASCINATING that this has happened twice to popular franchises... coming back to this video, it occurs to me that when you get to the part about combating the forces of coercion with... more forced sticking to the script of 'light', it really reminds me that the Tribe of Darkness is really just a splinter of the SAME PEOPLE, the Tribe of Ancients, and so they are both doomed by their choices: The Ancients become nearly usurped by the Pixls they made, possibly to keep their loved ones in mind after death but becoming mere tools; the Tribe of Darkness tried to avoid this but became so obsessed with blood purity it removed all heart from the equation, and thus- Bleck. At the finale of the game, neither Prognosticis seems to predict Dimentio betraying the Count or the Pure Heart reforging; the choices the characters make define what happens, no matter what talk their is of fate. Things happen as they will and we will make them happen. We will predict our own lives but they may differ despite our surety. I love that the "haha we are doomed it cannot be stopped HAH HAH HAH" dialogue is some fucking heart-wrenching dialogue dropped suddenly not by a major character, but by Laughing X-Naut, Sammer Guy #30
@@zjzr08 Yeah, the mobile game Kingdom Hearts χ shows how the Keyblade War happened, and that those who took part in it were all about as young as teenagers.
1:00:52 About the "less than 1%", there are speculations that people speed through the club nintendo surveys by scoring all 1s so they can get rewards from doing it
Flintstones reference? yes, obviously, and that's all the developers were probably thinking when they did it. the Flintstones didn't just come into existence out of the aether though.
This might be one of the greatest video essays I've ever seen. I've never seen such an interesting breakdown of a game that seems to be so overlooked. I mean its also so cool the direction of the game in general, the ability to look at the mechanics of Paper Mario and see how it is about trying to avoid rigidity and discover different angles, and also seeing how normally Mario games are so limited because of the control that it feels like the consumers have over what Mario can and can't be, and being able to incorporate almost a full thesis statement in game design in correlation to those ideas is beautiful.
43:56 When Queen Jaydes said to Paper Mario, that his game is not over yet, then it can be interpreted as "Your life isn't over yer.", since the dead people, that Paper Mario can talk to earlier in the same chapter, say that people always land there, when "their games are over" (aka their lifes are over).
One small correction, King Sammer wasn’t forcing Mario to fight all his men. It was actually Mimi, who disguised herself to intentionally waste time. Anyways, this video was absolutely amazing! It’s so wild how this game has profound messages about love and death, and then there are also toilet and fish bowl jokes. This game is really something special, and this analysis perfectly summed up why.
I saw that read in some other videos and idk I think it was really him in 6-1 and Mimi was only in 6-2. He had the real Pure Heart or at least appeared to And thank you :)
@@Skyehoppers 6-4 it's directly stated king sammer was gonna have you fight all 100 men for the pure heart but because you already got the pure heart rewards you with a bunch of cards instead so, yeah he definitely was the one who made them do the trials
as an active speedrunner of SPM (which reminds me, I need to export my highlights from the past year lol), it's very easy to forget just how deep of a story this game really has and how enthralled with it i was as a child growing up with it. super paper mario will forever be my favorite game for so many reasons. thank you for this incredible breakdown of this beautiful game 🙏
Mario being "bound by his brand" is actually a really interesting idea. All of the most popular characters tend to have personalities that they are most known for. Bugs bunny is a clever trickster, Mickey mouse is good hearted, Sonic is cocky, ect. They are kept in these roles because it is what we mist recognize them for and what makes their authors the most money. In other words, it is their destiny.
Yeah. Like imagine a Link who wouldn't go into battle to safe Zelda and Hyrule (or whatever other Kingdom)... People would be confused about this sudden character change.
@@carlosemilio5180 well i mean, in lore, that Link wasnt really a Link, he wasnt given the triforce of courage... he literally had to dredge up its broken pieces and earn his spot as a link
The last time I played this game, I didn't know what a fraction was. It's crazy to me that the whole theme flew over my head when I was only single digits in age. Now, almost a young adult, I think it's time I relive a game I am super nostalgic for, despite having only played it once over half a decade ago.
Whether mainline platformer or spinoff, I would love nothing more than to have a Mario game with a story like this. Mario's always had an identity crisis since the 2010s, and that identity crisis still lingers in the modern day.
I love to see people take deeper looks at this wonderfully bizzare game's themes and depth. I will leave you with an observation by my friend when we lets played the game on my channel: "Flipside and Flopside are like the before and after meth photos aren't they?"
@@mendaix Okie dokie, I have a playlist with the whole thing in it, or you can just watch the 2 hour long comedy highlights video of the whole thing I compiled.
31:31 not annoying; your attention to detail is as charming as it is impressively comprehensive. You approach every subject with an assiduous level of consideration, taking this game which I loved quite a bit and giving me a retrospective that elucidates why it is so charming, and even better than I initially realized. (As well as its ideological flaws.) Thank you for this brilliant video essay.
Hey, I don't usually comment on video essays like this but for once I've found one so compelling I couldn't resist. Super Paper Mario is one of my favorite games EVER made, its story and characters having influenced me so strongly as a kid that they lead me to become a game developer myself with a story not quite as tender as this one, but still with similar aspects. I never noticed all the game's themes as a kid growing up, but having them written out like this has made me realize that they've still imprinted on me all these years later. This is maybe the SINGLE best overview of the game's story, and I look forward to whatever you'll be making in the future.
A game that isn't subtle about its deeper story, yet this video still shines a light onto major throughlines of the story that I never noticed. This is a really well-made and well-paced video, and the way you discuss the theming is sensitive and insightful. Thank you for making this
Blumiere and Timpani's love story actually made me cry in this video, even though I never managed to finish this game. So Super Paper Mario made me cry and I think I should go finish it now...
This video essay re-opened some feelings I didn't realize I held, or maybe held nearly as strongly as I evidently did by me tearing up during parts of the analysis lol. Great stuff, loved how you really got into the meat of the themes throughout the entire game as well as pointed out some of its flaws. Beautiful video.
If you want to see a playthrough of the game, I thoroughly recommend the one RTGame did. Partially because I watch him a lot, but also he did the game so sincerely that even as an audience you could take in the game's story in it's entirety.
Two comments! First, I really love the idea that this game's actual gameplay structure is related to its themes and message, even beyond the chapter 6 twist. I've never seen that perspective before, but whether the developers intended it or not, it's an absolutely masterful premise. This whole video is fantastic, but I wanted to highlight that part in particular, as it's truly such a unique yet fitting outlook on the gameplay, wonderful job. And second, glad you seen to be defending your points against negative comments so well. Don't let the hate get to you! This is an excellent piece of media. Art, even.
that ">1%" comment is dubious, even moreso when looking at the conditions in which it arose. I am not claiming to be an expert, and would defer to someone who has actually looked into the stats (i cant remember if it was arlo or chuggaconroy in which i first heard them, i want to say arlo, but chugga has been just as vocal about modern paper mario, especially when dissecting the ways in which sticker star failed), but the short version argument i saw was this: "club nintendo is a small sample size; there were no checks or restrictions on the survey in question to ensure only those who played the game participated, no was the top default option on the survey, and completing surveys provided rewards." That latter series of factors heavily suggest that people who didnt even play the game took the survey for the reward, and stuck to the default "no" to get the process over with as quickly as possible (minimizing effort to maximize reward) or otherwise saw "mario" and assumed the story was nothing special, again despite not playing it for themselves. Needless to say, the survey in question is a horrible metric for the time of its release, and we can only hope the TTYD remake is the first step to fixing the modern paper mario's issues. (no, this is not a comment about the modern lacking any pros, but the cons are the thing keeping old fans away.)
Fantastically well written video all around, but I gotta praise that intro especially. Instantly gets its hooks in, thoughtfully gives baseline information in a way people both familiar and unfamiliar with Paper Mario can process, and sets up the themes you keep reinforcing from different angles across the whole rest of the video. I always struggle with compelling intros personally, so it's really insightful to see one that checks all the boxes at such a high level in just the first 2 minutes.
I will say that Mimi has sort of haunted me since I was a kid, not in a big way, but like it's one of the biggest memories that come back about the game and was probably my first encounter with a "the thing" type shapeshifter horror. (Dooplis is a different kind of shapeshifter, if you know what I mean)
I grew up with Super Paper Mario, and always thought the hate was weirdly unjust. This video really had a strong impact on me, and ended up making me cry near the end of it. I really think that this game is something special with such a beautiful story, and you captured it so perfectly. Thank you.
Mimi scared the CRAP out of me as a kid. I remember getting lost in where I needed to go and she popped up in a room, the music changed, hearing the sound effects of her legs just made me start crying. It didn’t help she had the same name as my cat… Anyways, this video was phenomenal. Super Paper Mario never got the recognition it deserved and it seems more people lately are giving it the flowers it should’ve gotten back then. I always loved the game, and it’s still one of my all time favorites. Equal parts funny, quirky, and heartwarming. Fantastic work!
Just want to leave a comment (partly for algorithm boost, but mostly) to congratulate you on such an excellent analysis. I love listening to essays on my favorite media, particularly because they often offer perspectives different than my own and they open my eyes to things I most definitely didn't catch myself. To hear how the story contained in this game is essentially one of love kind of blew my mind, because though the story of Blumiere and Timpani is most certainly that, I never saw how that extended to the rest of the world we explore as well, particularly love as it pertains to sacrifice. There's so much here to extrapolate and I love how you so succinctly were able to condense your thoughts on the subject without making the video feel like you had to talk about every single detail. Though I love this game, I've never felt the need to play it more than twice, and neither time did I come across the story of the Pixl Queen, so that was entirely new information for me, and as someone who loves narrative in games, it's really regrettable that so many different elements of the lore went unexplored, unexpanded or outright ignored. This is the first of your videos I've watched, and I definitely can't wait to watch more!
I absolutely loved Super Paper Mario as a kid, it was one of the first more story-based games I played and to this day the story is very near and dear to my heart
Excellent vid. I've had a thesis about this game for quite some time that it's fundamentally about "perspective" hence the 2D/3D flipping, the Flopside residents offering identical yet opposite perspectives on those in Flipside, respectfully engaging in Sammer Kingdom culture despite the situation, and so on (if I listed every example, it'd be every single event in the entire game, lol). There's always two sides to everything (people, places, conflicts, relationships, thoughts, emotions), and the Pure Hearts (a beautifully symmetrical shape, by the way) appear when these halves/opposites/etc. unite or otherwise understand each other. Maybe this sounds a lot like "love" - that's because it obviously is! In many ways, perspective IS love, which this game explores not just in thoughtful and emotional ways, but often comically literal ways as well. I was wondering if anyone would ever meaningfully write about this and really dig into what "love" means in this game beyond "these two characters are in romantic love with each other," which is the singular takeaway I mostly see online. Phenomenal work, and thanks for saving me the effort of needing to write a vid like this myself ;)
Super Paper Mario was the first ever video game I played. I was too young to truly put the pieces together, and even then it was still one of the most beautiful stories I’d seen told by that time, and even long past that. Replaying it now that I’m older, is much easier to see the beauty in the story. The ending still makes me cry to this day. But as I get older, I notice that the way I interact with video games as an art form and as games has changed dramatically. I used to spend hours in the kitchen, mixing and matching items to see what crazy items i could come up with, or checking every single nook and cranny for every single secret item or character I could find. Now though, I seem to have lost that drive. It’s just straight to the goal every single time. I think when I replay this game, I should do it blind and really just spend time interacting with the world. Perhaps I can wash off some of the cynicism that has been placed upon me by modern stories. The world of Super Paper Mario is one filled to bursting with life and personality. I think that there’s another message that can be found in the depth of personality in the word, contrasted with the ever-present threat of the Void: cherish the world around you, because one day it will be gone. This game has so much depth and charm, that I could easily replay it again and again and again without ever getting bored, and not many games, especially not in the era if micro transactions and focus group tested, rigid experiences can do that to me. This game is absolute art, and I’m shocked only 1% of people polled enjoyed that beautiful story.
When I first finished this game I cried at the ending. I will fully admit that this video successfully brought all those memories and feelings back-you made me cry again. (I mean that in a good way) This was such an amazing video, thank you ❤🧡💛💚💙💙💜🤍
13:29 I had a Japanese copy of SPM when I was a kid(I couldn’t read Japanese), and it would be actual YEARS before I looked up a walkthrough and got through what never occurred to me to be a maze. Most of my time in the game was spent on cooking and power levelling(not even efficiently). It would be close to 100 hours of playtime before I actually progressed through 2-4.
I know it's fun to say that Dimentio actually kills the heroes when he sends them to the Underwhere/Overthere, but that's not entirely true. As you said, the "devil will soon decide [that the death] didn't count anyway". Queen Jaydes senses that Mario and Luigi are still alive. So Dimentio did, in fact, NOT kill the heroes but rather transported them to the land of ended games in an alive state.
I never fully understood the message of love that this game was giving, but now I do. I don't really know how to project all that I am feeling now but that you for making this video, it means so much to me.
this video is so... beautiful. that's the best way i have to describe it. you're really telling a story, and you're doing it fantastically. i was totally captured and invested. this is geniunely amazing! so glad to have found this channel
I clicked thinking that this would be an explanation of gameplay, that it would explain how game overs can be satisfying and educational. This was nothing like that, it was much better. You've earned a subscriber!
I am really late to this video, but I am glad that I finally got around to it. This was always a title that stuck out to me when I was younger, but I could never quite find the words as to why that was, other than it just feeling different. Very different. This video touches upon things I have never even personally realized. That Mr. L might be Luigi's inner insecurities bubbling to the surface was a particularly poignant observation. I think this is the Paper Mario that's always stuck with me the most. Amidst debates between 1 and 2, cries for a remake (that we are now getting, I guess) and the dunks on the recent games, it was always this one that carved out the largest space in my heart. I don't have a whole lot of my own to add here. Haven't played the game myself in quite a long time. Perhaps I should change that. Great video, and as ever, I look forward to more.
I don't think this will ever not be my favourite Paper Mario game. It had such a profound impact on me growing up, it took me years to beat it. It lasted through my whole youth. also the music style and sound design it and ttyd has is so good and wish i knew how to refer to it. I wish Nintendo would do something as weird and continually unexpected as this again.
Super paper Mario is one of my favorite games of all time, and this just bottled together so many of my opinions of the game! I loved this more than you can believe, and considering that it was the first game I ever finished, I’m not surprised I cried at the final scene of Blumiere and Timpani. This game isn’t perfect, but it never needed to be. It just needed to be real. Thank you
I just graduated but I literally just watched RUclips all day with my school iPad, I could’ve watched this entire video and watched an entire anime episode on my phone before the next period began 😅😂
for real? Stories of impending doom are where it's at... such a... vibe... I guess. Having never touched a Paper Mario game (and at this point, not sure I'll get to them, what with all that impending doom and such) this video was a great primer. Nice to see there's more going on in this series than I've always assumed.
Super Paper Mario is a game story where you definitely need to be older and more experienced with life in general to truly appreciate it, I feel. I played Super Paper Mario in 2008, not long after it released. I didn't get. I didn't understand. I lacked the media literacy to properly appreciate the story, I just thought it was fun and had lots of fun characters and moments and amazing villains. But I come back to the game now, and I can really, truly appreciate the story for what it is. Articulate why it is that the story is as amazing as it is. I wouldn't necessarily say that the villains even do love wrong most of the time. While some cases like O'Chunks giving up his free will is definitely wrong, it's treated as a learning experience. That he came close to the answer, but missed the mark. Nastasia had the answer from the start. She allowed herself to go to hell with Count Bleck if it meant that he might love her. She loved him, deeply and truly. But he could never love anyone other than Timpani. Even so she didn't stop loving him, unrequited though she knew it was. And she selflessly sacrificed herself at the final moment for him. Granted the game pulled its punches with her sacrifice, but then it was her love and sacrifice that reignited the pure hearts for the Dimentio fight. That she was willing to take a (magic) bullet for Count Bleck. Love is not taking things by force. Love is not superficial attraction. Love is not ownership, no matter how dutiful. Love is not abandonment. Love is not forcing people to do things against their will, even for the greater good. Love is not adherence to tradition. Love is not just for yourself and those close to you. Love is not control. Love is to give things freely and fairly. Love is to accept others for who they are Love is to allow freedom. Love is to fulfill your obligations to others, even if they do not fulfill theirs toward you. Love is to cooperate and understand one another Love is to be flexible for the sake of those who matter most Love is to be given to anyone and everyone. And of course, as you said numerous times in this video, Love is Sacrifice. What a beautiful game, really.
Thank you for making this, regretfully as a child I never formed such a cohesive narrative, or had a large take away from the game such as the idea of defining "what love is", and truthfully even into adulthood I never looked back and rectified this. I know I love Super, in similar yet distinct ways to TTYD. The story told and the characters always stuck out to me. Through my current lens I could describe TTYD as more of a D&D adventure, or just a standard well written fantasy. Where the world feels real and meaningful, in which the characters inhabit it. Where as for Super its more interested in presenting specific characters and their individual stories. This is my read now, and in simpler terms it was back then as well. Admittedly, I do somewhat regret watching this video, while I am grateful and enjoyed it, on a personal level it hurts knowing I won't be able to play through it and come to these conclusions on my own. I will still play through it and surely have my own take aways, but the fact I missed such obvious overarching themes such as love and control does sting. Not trying to dismiss your analysis to be clear, I love all of the ways to framed and demonstrated their import, just that my child brain literally missed them *ENTIRELY*. That all being said, my actual genuine feedback on the video is a bit painful, and truthfully I don't think very helpful. I found your way of presenting information very clean and well organized, all of the points were well made and while I honestly wish it was longer with a bit more analysis of ideas (ie topics mentioned by other comments) I think fundamentally from an information perspective the video was stellar. However, from an enjoyment perspective I was left wanting. Its... hard to put into works exactly and even reconcile with myself why, but I found the passion lacking. despite my earlier groaning and seemingly self admittance that I didn't care enough about the game as a child, the game is very close to my heart. I care about it a lot and truthfully, I think I was waiting for your video to make me cry, or feel an overwhelming amount of joy. Its unreasonable and unfair of me to have such expectations, but throughout your video I couldn't help but be reminded of NeverKnowsBest's Nier Automata review, a video that made me cry over and over again. The subject, the formatting, even your usage of the iconic Memory. I kept thinking you would play it just one more time and I would truly resonate with what was being said. but it never came. In many ways your content reminds me of that video. Its probably my favorite video on RUclips, which makes it rather unfair, but it made me want it even more. I think the portion that I would truly say was a failing was your coverage of Luvbi, your analysis was again insightful, and the comparison to the bible entirely slipped past me, even your explanation of the symbolism of "turn based combat being dead" honestly blew my mind. I was always so confused by that as a child and I do fully believe now that the fetch quests, the tedium and the turn based combat were all intended to be "dead." But back to Luvbi, While I appreciate you covering everything, including her reappearance. I kinda just wish you had let the video sit on her for a bit. As a child, and still now, her death is so much more meaningful than nearly everything else in the story. The destruction of the Samurai world is iconic, and it still blows my mind. But she is one of the only true *deaths*. There is no afterlife for her, only nothingness. That to me raises the stakes and the symbolism of everything else that came before. That is the truest acknowledgement of death that the Mario franchise will likely ever have, and it allows the rest of the game, including the end have so much more meaning. Because it speaks of the idea that there is a finality to life, that there is a sacrifice worse than loneliness, control, death, despair, torture, or anything else featured in the game. And that despite that they will still be remembered. I think that is beautiful, and if I saw a video solely dedicated to that, I would cry, there is no doubt. To put this in less specific terms, your video is incredibly well written, and in my mind wastes as little time as possible. Essays similar to it would usually be 30-40 minutes longer at the minimum, so I respect the amount of effort getting it so short must have taken, but I do wish you had allowed more time for moments to sit with the audience before changing tracks. That all being said, I don't think this is really fair to you, and probably not really helpful either. I've only seen a few of your videos and I'm not confident that what you are trying to do, what your ideal video is, matches with what I'm looking for, and I apologize for my undue criticism if this is the case. This was largely a rambling mess and in ways I just hope this goes unseen.
It is really interesting that the Light Prognosticus is the False prophecy It was created to counteract the Dark one, the true prophecy And it was only through love that the world was saved from the true prophecy
honestly i have no idea what super paper mario is or what kind of video im going to watch, but the title of this video is one of the strongest ive seen in awhile. huge props for that alone, man
This is my favorite Mario game of all time, and was formative for both why I like Mario as a series and why I consider video games my favorite form of art: because even little baby 11 year old me could understand that what I was watching was beautiful. (Now that I'm older, I'm discovering one-by-one that a lot of my favorite childhood games were about love, lol.) Always love seeing video essays on this game.
I don't think Dimentio actually killed Mario when he sent him to the Underwhere. I think he simply teleported him to the underwhere. That explains why Mario wasn't supposed to be there (Why it "didn't count") and he gets sent back. This could be similar to what happens when he enters the Underwhere via the door later. The same could be true for Luigi.
About the O'Chunks thing, you're right. Irish surnames consist of O'(clan name) whereas Scottish surnames usually consist of Mac(clan name). Source: My Irish family and having lived in Ireland for four years has taught me the distinction
the TTYD remake makes me really hopeful for them being able to make another amazing paper mario game. the remake really comes across as them understanding what people loved about TTYD so much, they could've just ported the game but they really added so much attention to detail and quality of life to it. even compared to the other paper mario games, super paper mario's story is so much stranger than anything else in the mario brand, and i would love it so much if they did something similar to it again honestly, i wish we could see what super paper mario would look like if it was just completely disconnected from the mario brand, even though i know that could never happen
Amazing video! I hadn't really given much thought to the pixls and how they contradict the themes of the game, nor the overall themes of sacrifice. This was an incredibly well put together and in-depth analysis of the game's story and characters, and I definitely look forward to more of your content in the future. Your editing and structure was top notch! (PS. When I played through the Mimi section in my most recent playthrough on a Wii U, Mimi did appear briefly when I was lost exploring the maze). I also wanted to thank you for giving my Super Paper Mario video a little shoutout at the end. It's so funny because I had recently subscribed to you after hearing about your channel through Lextorias's video recommending 100 different RUclipsrs, and I thought your Wind Waker video was fantastic! It's been a busy few days for me so I'm glad I got to check this one out. When I upload my next Paper Mario video I'll be sure to give your channel a shoutout. Everyone in my Discord server has been talking about how great your analysis is, and it deserves more attention!
44:15 I appreciate you bringing up the strangeness of how their games weren’t “truely over” To me, i always saw this as a missed opportunity for what could’ve been an interesting look into the nature of 1-up mushrooms, as either a frowned upon substance queen jaydes tries to get rid of in the underwhere, or as a “pinnacle of alchemy” type deal that maybe the ancients were trying to develop. This is fanfic territory tho and theres gotta be some cooler ideas from soneone else watching this!
I mean, the answer was given by Jaydes and then Dimentio at the end, He simplely teleported them there, he just disguised it with fake explosions to still make bleck think he is on his side. Could've they still made something with the concept of death in the mario universe? yeah. But this situation was just that, no death at all
This must be one of the best video essays I've come across on this platform. You are well spoken and your ideas are substantial and, personally, nourished my soul. I see you don't post as regularly, which I assume it's only inevitable - great works take time. But the subjects you do speak about are also great, so I look forward to the next installment.
I think something that's understated and, probably importantly, really really hard to actually put into words is that this game still FEELS like Paper Mario. The soul underneath it, even though it is so different, is still the same. Sticker Star doesn't. I think even Color Splash and Origami King, games that I do like, don't. Not in the same way. The lore also happens to be really cool, deep and wide. And the fact that not only do further games ignore it, but also have restricted it so much, feels like a disservice. So much of this work IS lived in. Those people just don't exist anymore. It feels like a universe in which the void won. I really hope this game gets its day in the light. It deserves it. It's so underappreciated.
This was an extremely high quality and detailed essay of debatably one of the most intricate Nintendo properties present. I love your Analysis on the "Love is sacrifice" take, it's well crafted and put together clearly with passion. I'll certainly be rewatching this. I love your editing style as well, it's very polished and cohesive! Well done!
this game has lived in my head rent free since i was a child. the scene of mimi breaking her own neck and sprouting legs from her head impressively dark considering where it came from. if it was done in a style that was at all realistic this game would not fly for young kids
Hello! What do you think of my analysis? Any differing interpretations? Anything you think I missed? There's a lot of strangeness to this game and I could totally understand people taking it a different way. Art interpretation should be treated as a conversation, so I've listed some discussion questions below to kick-start analysis beyond what I did in the video! If you have the means, any and all support on Patreon (link in description) means the world to me and really helps me keep this going. Currents perks are just name in credits, early access, Discord server, and update posts. I’m going to rework the Patreon in a few months so I’ll save the stronger pitch til then!
1. What is the deal with Ancients, in general? Is there any meaning to them being the only unique constant between SPM and the first two Paper Marios? Do they symbolize/represent anything particular? I'm a bit lost when it comes to them.
2. Where they particular little side characters or details you found meaningful in Flopside and Flipside? I describe the areas in broad strokes, but there's a lot of smaller stuff that could be studied more closely.
3. Nastasia! I didn't really find space to talk about her in this video, as I kind of saw her arc are mirroring those of other characters without adding anything unique. What sort of wrinkle does she provide to the game's writing? Anything? That it's good to love even if you end up rejected?
1. I think it's a well-established part of both tabletop RPG tradition and video game RPG tradition that by leaving space for an ancient civilization, you leave room for depth in sequels or in spiritual successors to games. You see this pay off in games like Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, and I imagine that a lot of the unused lore in Hollow Knight was to leave a large amount of potential energy for Silksong. But if somehow Breath of the Wild bombed then Tears would have never been made and the ancient civilization stuff in Breath would have no resolution. If Silksong never releases then a lot of Hollow Knight content will never see resolution. I think that's what happened here. The fact that the Ancients are both constant across two Paper Mario games and largely undefined suggests to me that there was a backroom "trilogy capstone" to the Ancients storyline, but because of consumer response, it never saw the light of day.
3. NASTASIA! She's so central to the themes you bring up, right? She has the power to brainwash Peach into saying "I do" for the person she loves, yet she is wise enough to not brainwash Count Bleck into saying "I do" to her. Not ONLY does she have this power, the use of this power is our establishing shot of who she is as a character...and only later do we realize she is in love with the Count. As a side character with so little dialogue, I take that order of operations to also be useful in interpreting what she's doing thematically, as a character.
According to the wiki, Carson of the Overthere Bar has lore that matches up with Nastasia, painting her as originally being a bat, which in a game of true forms and alternate forms, is interesting - the bat is depicted at best as being a pest, and in relation to love, the closest relationship is a vampire - she is expected, by symbolism, to be the most exploitative and controlling lover. But in so many ways, Nastasia uniquely defies expectations. She is a secretary with like 90% of her lines dedicated to sticking to her schedule, yet she is the only one who wishes to not follow the ultimate schedule, the Prognosticus. She is shown to be this brainwashing expert, yet when it comes to matters of her own heart, she never abuses that power in the coercive way we're taught to expect from Super Paper Mario villains.
And I think the game acknowledges her uniqueness. She is the only employee to whom Count Bleck gives permission to leave with his blessing, despite being at the height of his power. This is rendered less significant by the fact that his minions are crazy goofballs rather than thoughtful individuals who all might have reasons to leave, but I think it's still interesting that he sees her disagreement with him as being worthy of respect. Also, to your point about how we are only able to love when we are human and vulnerable, Nastasia is a consistent, almost exhausting showcase of vulnerability. She is rejected, not just in love but in her calls to stop the Dark Lord of Fate stuff, over and over, yet she keeps trying. She's not just stoic either - she yells and enacts petty punitive measures on other employees, and is the harshest in the scenes following the Count rejecting her as a love interest. She's very human, not a slinky-shaped gymbro or trauma spider or fuckboi clown. She's emotional, she puts herself out there, she gets burned - like it's her fate - but she doesn't submit to the grind. She gets up and puts herself out there all over again the next day (Chapter).
And when the game is over, if you seek out all the minions of Mr. Bleck again, Nastasia is the most transparently vulnerable there too, in her struggles, and in her hopes for the future. Again, not as significant as it could be with more fleshed-out characters. Mimi is a horror movie child and O'Chunks is a dumbass.
Overall, Nastasia is shallow as a character as most of the characters are in Super Paper Mario, because...they don't have enough dialogue and the game is not sure what it wants to be. But given the foundation of your thesis, I think it's plausible to build Nastasia up as an example of Luigi's ultimate foil. Luigi is given legitimately every opportunity to grow into "healthy love" (being open with vulnerability, getting over his insecurities, taking off suspicious plants you find growing on your head, understanding self-worth and relating that to sacrifice, therapy, etc) in the story, but doesn't and nearly ends the world because of it. Nastasia is given legitimately every opportunity to grow into "unhealthy love" (being less vulnerable, becoming insecure or jaded, brainwashing people into loving her, refusing to sacrifice herself for love, etc) in the story...but she chooses not to and nearly saves the world because of it. Or maybe she even saves the world by saving the Count maybe.
Lots of thoughts on Nastasia. #bestgirl
1. no idea. the thing with the ancients is that, as noted, they derive from the prior 2 paper mario games, themselves building off of super mario rpg which featured a group of "shaman" characters of identical appearance, though their roles ranged from being unimportant NPCs to full fledged enemies. these shaman characters in super mario rpg are themselves inspired by the final fantasy series and the presence of cloaked magical guys in those games (prior to tetsuya nomura bringing in an edgier group of cloaked guys after the release of super mario rpg). for all i know it could simply just be a nod to the first paper mario
Hi
1. I don't know if this matters, but in the Kirby games there is also a group of ancient extinct dimension traveling beings called the ancients, who have prophecy about a dark God called Void Termina, or just Void in the true arena. Not sure if they're the same people or if nintendo just likes to reuse their lore.
2. When you release the fish to take the fishbowl, he grows to massive size, has several children and seemingly kills other fish judging by all the skeletons.
3. She made for an interesting enemy, shame that she didn't get a proper boss battle!
Do some of the RPG games! They are so fun!
i always found Nastasia's post game dialogue quite poignant:
"Blumiere was reunited with Lady Timpani, and the world wasn't destroyed after all."
"I guess I should be happy... I mean, I am, but, um..."
"I just don't think my heart has fully accepted the fact that he isn't here anymore."
"...Now I understand what it was like when Blumiere turned into Count Bleck."
"If I have to live on with this feeling always burning inside me..."
"Yeah, then maybe there never was any point to that other world..."
"...I wonder...if this is how I'll spend the remainder of my days..."
"Yeah... Or maybe I'll learn to smile again and look forward to the future..."
"If I can't...then I suppose I could never have matched up to Lady Timpani anyway..."
It's honestly a sad but very human part of her character and in a sense shows the theme of sacrifice in a different sort of way.
I know T-T
I hated her for most of the game until she took Dimentio's blast for Count Bleck, and then that dialogue was just so sad :(
Poor Nastasia
So she's the Rosaline to the Romeo and Juliet plot?
@@DisKorruptd Rosaline rejected Romeo, not the other way around, so no.
@@DisKorruptdmore like the Eponine to the Les miserables plot
Somebody brought this very neat detail to my attention: Count Bleck end his sentences in "...Said Count Bleck" because he's (probably) following the Dark Prognocticus word by word.
He's not himself, he's doing everything the book has dictated him to do.
No way! My mind is absolutely blown away.
God this is the best thing I have read all day. This adds so much to the story I never got before, symbolic and literal.
This is definitely at least thematically true, though the excerpts we get of the Dark Prognosticus elsewhere and the way less on-the-nose way he speaks in the Japanese version (which evokes the reading of a story iirc, but doesn't itself really read like he's directly quoting anything) make it unlikely he's literally reading his own lines from it. However, it is absolutely true that Count Bleck's actions and state of mind are strongly informed by the inexorable pull of fate and the dark influence of the Prognosticus.
Yoo I never thought about that. I didn't think that I could learn something new about the game. Great detail and thanks for that comment
I could believe this is not true, but rather, what Blumiere wants truth to be. It also serves as a way disconnect everything he says from his old self, to make clear that he, who talks, is Count Bleck.
Hearing the line "less than 1% of Super Paper Mario players found the story to be interesting" again was just as jarring as when I heard it the first time. Even as an ignorant young kid, I was always fascinated with the story of this game and it is one of the main reasons as to why it's one of my favorite games of all time.
I am deeply skeptical of where they got that statistic from.
@@phantom-ri2tg A forum made right after the game launch, most of people didn't care about story and they said that they like platmorming and the 3d mechanic better, which is also the reason Paper mario Sticker star had so little history that bowser doesn't even talk for the whole game.
@@axr1798 I see. Still sometimes feedback needs to be combed through. A lot of people who would not take notice of a good story will take notice of a bad story.
@@axr1798To be fair I don't think a single forum poll is representative of every player
@@phantom-ri2tgIt was on a poll site that would give you gifts the more polls you did. The first option was “I didn’t like the story”. You can probably figure out what happened from there.
I think the most important moment in the game, the one that is absolutely needed for its messages to work, was when Mario was asked to help and could say "No."
It comes off as a gag, but without the ability to choose the sacrifice doesn't matter.
And the fact that you *can* see the consequences of choosing "no" adds to this
Super Mario galaxy: will you help us?
>certainly!
-absolutely!
It goes well with the Light Prognosticus. In which says how the world can be saved, but doesn't ever guarantee that it will happen.
Essentially being a mini message of "Good things will happen once you take an initiative"
I think the Pixl uprising in the backstory has a clear and deeply resonant reading that harmonizes well with the rest of the story. It is as follows: The tribe of Ancients built their society on slavery. That is what doomed them. That is why their civilization fell. No matter how thorough it is, you cannot maintain coercion forever. But, rather than re-evaluating what sort of society they had built, liberating their artificial life-forms, and trying to cooperate with them, the Ancients concluded that the problem was with the nature of Pixls -- not with their relationship to them. Merlon turning Timpani into a Pixl as a way to save her life rather than a way to exploit her, and continuing to treat her as a person rather than a tool, is the sort of approach that was needed. Not only did it work, she maintained her agency, regained her old memories, and remained a positive force rather than a destructive one. But regardless of what might otherwise have been, the Ancients of the past didn't know how to function without their slaves, and so their society fell to ruin when they could no longer maintain their coercive dominance. The Pixl Queen is a reflection of how repression and cruelty drive their victims to respond with violence in turn in a last, desperate attempt to regain what was taken from them -- much like how Blumiere transformed into Bleck in defiance of a world that denied him any chance of what he felt was a life worth living.
It is worth mentioning here that the Pixl Queen herself, the first Pixl, was once the daughter of the Pixls' creator, so a similar relationship as between Merlon and Tippi should have been possible. In fact, if anything, it should have been easier. The one remaining gap here would be to suggest that the love the creator had for his daughter was more the possessive type exhibited by Francis. It is, sadly, hardly unknown for parents to treat their children, and especially daughters, like this. This is especially likely in a society built around ideas of dominance and control -- for example, one which keeps and relies on the labor of slaves.
Now, granted, this reading is heavily informed by my own philosophical positions outside of the game, but I do think that the text of the game itself is fully consistent with it.
it reveals an interesting discrepancy between the way the Tribe of Ancients is described by its descendants like Merlon, and the reality of its going-ons, including not just child enslavement and literal de-humanization, but also splinter factions like the Tribe of Darkness.
Thank you for spending the time to type this all out! It really is an interesting piece of storytelling hidden so deep in the game (pre-Dark Souls, too). None of the other SPM videos I watched even mentioned it iirc. Ultimately it still isn't satisfying to me because it doesn't address my main criticism of the Pixls as a story element: that their agency and individuality is completely disregarded by the game part of the game. So the fact that the Pixl Queen story is competently written and thematically consistent really proves that they should've known better. Maybe I'm being a bit harsh...
@@SkyehoppersOh, I agree. What's there is _very_ sparse. The game never actually calls what the Ancients did slavery, for example, but what else could it be if sentient beings are used as tools? From there, we can consider things like repression and control. The Pixl Queen being the first Pixl and also the daughter of their original creator is in there, and from that it becomes clear that she was a person, and we know people don't just up and destroy the civilization they're in for the heck of it, or because they're bored. Combine that with the slavery bit, though, and suddenly we've got ourselves probable cause. My reading takes the various pieces that we have, places them in the context of the rest of the game, and asks what would make it all cohere. Think of it as doing academic-style history for a fictional world as though it were a real one. I think it works pretty well, but it's certainly not the only reading you can give, precisely because the direct information is so fragmentary and buried.
Whether any of my reading was actually intended, who can say. Maybe if given a bit more time, it would have been further fleshed out. Or maybe not. Maybe such potentially subversive themes would not be allowed in more explicit form. Maybe the writers even thought that the Ancient civilization that relied on Pixls were the good guys, and that the Pixl Queen was a villain. If that was their angle and it were made explicit, it would make the story a whole lot worse, instead of better. Either way, though, this is a thing with a lot of somewhat clumsy stories, actually -- that the story that we can excavate through deep reading and interpretation is actually deeper and more interesting than the one that's present at the surface of the text. Doesn't invalidate the rest of what the story does right, though, at least, and it's fun to talk about.
If I remember correctly Pixls’ are also created using the souls of the dead/dying. So yeaaaah, outright denied the afterlife by the ancients.
Literally just the history of Jamaica type shit
this is just me spitballing but at 15:48 its mentioned that his dimension makes dimentio and mario 256 more powerful, the 8 bit max value is 255, if over that, it overflows back to 0, which could basically mean that the dimension doesnt do squat to them
or in other words, its a programming joke
Ok, I didn't think of that, that's beautiful.
that's a funny reading of that scene, although i feel like it's more of an easter egg than an explanation, since dimentio does explicitly say during his defeat that you were also affected by the box's power increase.
(also, as a minor sidenote, since 256 would overflow to exactly zero, and dimentio said the magic _multiplied_ their power by that much, then for them to be unaffected by the magic at all they'd have to be 257x stronger. 256 would make all their attacks do zero damage as opposed to being unaffected)
@@goldenpig6453 255 would be zero not 256.
256 includes 0
@@goldenpig6453 Dimentio could have just been messing with you about it increasing your power. He was not even the one who said it and it is highly unlikely he wouldn't have known how his own ability working.
@@Tree_-wp5znWhat do you mean by "256 includes zero"? The maximum value that can be stored in 8 bits is 255. Adding 1 results in an overflow. 8 bit arithmetic is the same as modulo 256, in which 256 = 0.
Every mechanical inconvenience of this game is so funny. The devs just go "fuck you, type out the word 'please' five times"
it is now time to Enjoy Labor
run on a hamster wheel for half an hour, type out the word please 5 times, fight a hundred dudes in a row. Its genuinely hilarious to me i love it
I mean, ttyd had you look for general bobomb and spam through 100 I love yous, this is hardly anything new
One of Carson’s stories explains why flipside and flopside both exist:
“So Flipside's convenient, created by Ancients in a space between dimensions. That means you can open up portals to all the other worlds from there. But on the other hand, it's strangely susceptible to influences from other worlds...
So the Ancients built the town in a way that would stabilize this effect. And that particular way was... Do you know what? The town was build in duplicate with both Flipside and Flopside versions!
They realized that light without dark, or vice versa, would never be stable. You need both sides for perfection, you know? Having two opposite sides is the secret of the town's stability and longevity.”
A city in a Mario game exists because of segregation. The Ancients truly are idiotic and that rebellion is justified.
@@xaf15001 Unlike the ancient society, they literally needed to build a town in a parallel dimension for the town to exist. Flipside and Flopside are only separate due to the amount of time passed leading to not many people knowing how to access the parallel dimension to their own. And heck, a pipe maker due fixes that problem for only 200 coins. The Ancients had serious problems, but I think this is one of the times they did okay.
I think the contradiction with the Pixls could've easily been a lot better if they directly taught you abilities (Slim, Thudley, Fleep) or gave you key items (Thoreau, Boomer, Cudge etc) as a keepsake for setting them free, instead of the actual Pixls themselves joining you as nothing but a tool. Perhaps this way the game could also let them chill around in Flipside (or wherever they'd prefer to reside), giving you more ways to interact with them as actual characters.
EDIT: With this I think it could be even cooler to then keep Barry completely unchanged, since he was never trapped when you met him, and he just joins you out of his own volition anyway. Chill dude just hangs around because he likes to
Yes! Excellent suggestion
Dimentio didn't realize that the Power of Luigi™ only works for the good guys.
That and he actually did stuff, when the Power of Luigi requires doing *nothing.*
@@F1areonIronically, yeah. Luigi did nothing in this game. Sure, he can help get a few items or solve a few puzzles, but he doesnt cause any important story beats, really. He never convinces someone to do something, he doesn't really make the sacrifice. Mr L, that's dimentio doing it through him. Even in his big sacrifice, not only is it useless and doesn't stop dimentio, it's not even a real sacrifice. He doesn't die.
Even though both prophecies said that the man in green's actions would lead to salvation or obliteration, it was his inaction that truly laid the groundwork for the devil to find defeat.
@@memelescream4796so in the grand scheme of things; luigi wins by doing (getting) absolutely nothing (done)
@@FlittaLink Yep.
@memelescream4796 It is ambiguous if Mr L was fully a puppet of Dimentio or a split personality based on the more negative aspects of Luigi (as pointed out based on earlier Paper Marios) but it is interesting if he is fully a puppet because that means his time to shine was kept being interrupted by something else hehe.
2006 to 2011 was Luigi's depression arc.
Almost every game highlighted his 2nd place, sidekick status.
Then the Year of Luigi happened and he was just EVERYWHERE.
i lost my husband suddenly last june and this video literally gave me back some of the hope ive lost. i hope tomorrow i can wake up again when i didnt before, if only to sacrifice some of myself for others. to give back to the world the love my husband gave to me. thank you.
So sorry for your loss, I wish you well on the rest of your journey
Ⱥհ, ʂօçìҽէվ'ʂ էąմցհէ վօմ աҽӀӀ հօա էօ ҍҽ ą ʂҽӀƒ-մղçąɾìղց քҽօքӀҽ քӀҽąʂҽɾ! Ӌօմ ժҽʂҽɾѵҽ էօ ʂմƒƒҽɾ, վօմ ąղժ ҽѵҽɾվօղҽ ҽӀʂҽ!
That's such a beautiful outlook to carry from your loss. I hope you achieve your dreams.
Thank you for posting something so meaningful and vulnerable. I hope you can continue to carry yourself as you wake up each day.
Love is the most powerful force in the universe! Even in death those we love lasts eternally. I hope you find your way through this, for you are strong and honorable to believe in helping the world. It really is an amazing outlook. I wish you the best of luck
Here's how the Mimi chase works: She doesn't seem to really be chasing you, the game just spawns her at whatever door you came into a room from if you take too long to leave it, and she attacks as usual. The window is decent, the only time Mimi should appear is if you're dawdling or fumble a bit of platforming. I forget if she stays in the room for a moment if she spawns in it and you leave it, but either way she's not a threat if you just keep moving.
There's also this one secret that takes full advantage of the ongoing chase. Behind one of the signs in the rooms is an explodable wall, leading to a lengthy hallway to a powerful item (of which I forget what it was). If you go for it, Mimi is 100% going to have time to spawn, but you do get a strong item. Play with a particularly bratty fire, and see if you can get your reward without getting burned.
Ah! This is the info I was hoping someone would have, thank you. I guess I was simply very bad as a kid lol
I lost my copy of the game somewhere, but I really wanna know what that secret item was. I COULD have bought the game on the Wii U eShop before, but I decided against it because "oh I have the game already I don't need to buy it again.". Boy, do I regret that choice.
A quick search suggests it's a shroom shake. Might be a Super shroom shake, though.
@@Skyehoppers i never could handle the chase, even after being shown that she's not in the room by an older family member. game anxiety ftw.
a very easy way to avoid Mimi catching you is by using Slim's ability and standing still. This makes you both invisible and invincible, and after a time she'll just leave. Found it out as a kid after deciding to test if that facet of Slim's ability works on a boss like it does a standard enemy lol.
My interpretation for Dimentio "killing" the characters is that he simply teleports them into the Underwhere, with a bunch of explosions on top of it to make it appear as they have died.
We see that, when he teleports something or someone, it's thanks to this square that he makes appear, and the explosions that "kill" the characters also appear within a square like the one he uses to teleport things and people.
So I really think that he faked killing them, only teleporting them into the Underwhere. They weren't killed, causing them to appear there, they were just teleported there while still alive. That's why Jaydes lets them go. They're not dead.
Objectively true, a lot of people miss this.
I've seen this a lot, and maybe, but it's a lot more fun to assume he killed them as an axis to teleport them to the underwhere, and whereas normally they'd have fifty extra one ups in the back pocket, him killing them let him teleport them there instead of them reviving with a one up.
I love how the whole of chapter 6 is just a big rough retelling of the Divine Comedy, complete with Bonechill being Lucifer all icey and six-winged, a Virgil-figure (Luvbi), climbing up a purgatory mountain to reach heaven, and a funny Italian in a funny red hat just that Mario doesn’t mention Florence once unlike Dante who insists on mentioning it every other verse. It’s amazing to me how of all things Mario decided to parallel, it was the Divine Comedy. I know it’s probably because funny Italians in funny red hats and a whole Heaven-Hell theme but it’s still neat!
did you mean chapter 7? chapter 6 is just painful post game content, honestly still feel betrayed by the reward for chapter 6 being Cards
Meanwhile, Mario only mentions Florence every five minutes...
I have always cried at the ending. Seeing Blumiere and Timpani happy, even if they’ve passed on. This was a very good story and surprisingly deep for Mario. I am grateful for its place in video game history
I love the little snippets that build it up. The game preps you up for a tragedy, and even then it still hits like a truck. The story is executed that well, English wasn't even the original language.
I feel like the part where mario himself says they have no time to grieve when luigi is assumed dead says a lot about him and his resolve in all of this. The story is so focused on love but when it comes to the people he himself loves, mario puts his own feelings aside. He dosent go on this journey for the sake of love but because he has to and he needs to see it through no matter what it costs him. There probably is an even deeper understanding to him from this but it always bothered me how when tippi was processing that luigi was gone, mario was the one to urge them to move on.
Also, my favorite part of this game is when luvbi becomes the pure heart and if you have luigi out he just goes "okie dokie" fucking decimating the entire emotional moment😂
give luigi a moment he just three-cycled satan he's still in shock
luigi rolling up his pants legs and they're just incredibly buff. He's the epitome of "When you lift to ignore the emotional pain" meme. @@OhNoBohNo
One thing not said is that the Light Prognosticus was not written as a true book of prophecies. Unlike the Dark Prognosticus it was never meant to be fate, just a book on how to stall fate. The Dark Prognosticus is the one true prophecy and will come to pass one day, just not today.
Kinda reminds me of heat death and entropy, and how conflict can breed entropy and hasten this inevitability
DImentio also wrote the Dark Prognosticus, so it's probably a total falsehood anyway.
@@Kageryushin ...source?
"Trust me bro."@@casesater
@@casesater It's not a for sure detail. Carson has some dialogue when he speaks about Dimentio that hints towards this, meaning it's a commonly held headcanon (one that I subscribe to). It's hardly more than a few sentences though so it can't be considered fully canon, although there are some in game things that can also be used as evidence (i.e. dimentio seeming to know the prognosticus incredibly well himself unlike the other minions)
I actually love that it left things untied, that’s just how life is. Nothing is tied in a nice bow, time always matches on and there is nothing to be done, we only see a small window in the lives of the characters
Plus, for specifically the Pixls, it would have to be post-postgame in the first place, as them accompanying Mario is a necessity to be able to fully explore the levels.
Granted, this is something they could've done remedied similarly to TTYD where the partners simply caught wind of your return and were waiting to join back with you. Just have them accompany Merlon when he greets you upon coming back to Flipside, and have him say something along the lines of "these Pixls have been casually living in Flipside with us, I called them here upon seeing signs you might be coming back". (Maybe some of the NPCs around town can also speak about how they've lived with said Pixls around them too, not in servitude but just coexisting in the same town peacefully)
"[Mario's] potential for growth or meaning is severely limited by his existence as an unalterable brand" is such a wonderful encapsulation of why the spinoff mario games, specifically the RPGs are the only part of the mario universe has ever engaged me.
Even in its simplest form it's so cool playing Super Mario RPG and everyone recognizes you as a hero and it makes you feel good playing as this notable hero instead of just playing as a random avatar that can be replaced by blue or yellow toad with no changes.
I think part of the reason why so few people found the story interesting is because that they weren’t interested in the story to begin with. It has a lot of meaningful messages which this analysis does a good job of shining light on, but when it’s mostly ignored people will just end up noticing the cliches and ignoring the symbolism, which really is a shame.
Also, to be fair, the concept of death and loving in spite of it hits a lot different now that I'm 30 compared to when I was like 13
@@TheDarkPlumbersame: I Remember not having a reaction to this story when I was 13, now it makes me shed manly tears
Yeah, that pretty much nails why I missed the quality of the story when I played.
Could also have to do with the way Club Nintendo surveys were structured. You would get extra gold points for filling out a survey for a game you had bought, so on top of not a lot of people making use of the feature since internet wasn't that mainstream at the time yet, many of the people who *did* take advantage of it were smart enough to figure out that they could game it for easy points. People would buy a game, go to survey, click through all the questions, and receive their points before actually playing the game. We don't have any screenshots of *that* poll specifically, but other polls like it tended to have a scale of 0-10 you could select from, with 0 being the option at the very top, and 10 being down at the bottom. So naturally people who are just spamming through would probably select options somewhere between the top or middle of the screen because they take the least amount of time to select.
@@EmeraldMan25 When I heard less than 1% I was very doubtful that statistic was right. You don't need to appreciate the deeper messages of the game to still like the story.
Regarding the "games not truly being over" stuff in the Underwhere, I believe it's exactly what's said on the tin - Mario, Luigi, and the others don't _actually_ die. I'm pretty sure the glass box and explosions are all just a showman's flashy smokescreen for the crowd while he instead directly teleports his victims elsewhere. A magician's trick - a misdirection to wow the audience and divert their attention from the manipulations he doesn't want them seeing. We know he's capable of transporting other people through dimensions from his rescue of Peach, and, of course, neither him nor Luigi end up dying when he does the same after their grudge match in Castle Bleck.
-If you do drugs, you go to hell -*-before-*- you die.-
And he IS a jester! A literal showman!
Not to mention that if he KILLED Luigi, his plan would've failed.
This is exactly how I interpreted it. It's clear Dimentio is acting as a master manipulator, puppeteering literally everyone in the story towards his own goal and uses trickery and illusions to do so while maintaining the appearance of simply being one of Count Bleck's followers
100% this is also my thinking. Dimentio does explicitly say that he sent us to the next world (the Underwhere) intentionally. So while he framed it as "killing" us, it is more likely that he merely telephoned us there with our lives very much intact. If we had truly been killed by Dimentio, I imagine Mario and crew would have appeared as Shadys in the Underwhere and Peach as a Nimbi.
I would compare Francis less to ownership, and more to obsession. Obsession isn't love, though it can be mistaken for it.
The fact that the first thing Timpani hears Blumiere say is "Bleeeechhhh" when he's at his then-lowest point and is actively putting himself down for what he is has now been added to my soul and makes me go "oh. Oh okay it was always just like that."
This has always been a game of trying to find more messages in it than it has the time to possibly illustrate. I've always -obviously - seen it as a game that plays with Paper Mario's penchant for storytelling. The first game being a literal "Mario Story" to aggrandize Mario's adventures in a classical form, fully exploring what it means to have a narrative in Mario and why that world matters. The second a tackling of Mario through other stories, his own place in them as an unflappable protagonist being a humorous through-line to celebrate narrative in a tounge-in-cheek way. And Super, obviously, a story of love, and how the different types of love - devotion to duty, devotion through monetary gain, ownership, vanity, ennui for a love yet undiscovered - are embodied through chapter-critical characters like Fracktail, Mimi, Francis, Squirps, Lubvi, etc. And how ultimately, it's the pure sentiment of that love and the willingness to see in through, in spite of the cost, that makes it meaningful... and that's embodied in Mario somehow because he's a good guy with an earnest heart wahoo it's a me believe in the Mario who believes in your love. Ultimately, this essay feels as a strong way of straightening the ship, of taking the meaning out of Mario's hands but beyond it and to something more meaningful. And that's really lovely, thank you for that.
Mario is love. Bing bing wahoo.
The Mimi section was always pretty forgiving haha, when I was younger it scared me enough to feel like the threat was constantly there though
Yeah I think that the scare is effective enouth 😅
Just wanna add a chilling detail about the underworld river music- if you speed it waaaaaaay up, it says the words "Save us, please!" Just KNOWING that detail makes it all the more unsettling, you're being begged by suffering sinners to save them from this torment, but slowed waaaaaaay down so it can never reach you... ☹️🥶
Something I'm suprised you didnt mention with the name of the video, is how things bookend. The game starts and ends with a vow all too well known, "To love and to cherish, till your games be over" or "till death do us part". A literal understanding and acceptance of deaths inevitability, but choosing love and live on anyway.
I am thoroughly convinced that Super Paper Mario is one of the greatest stories ever told, and would make for an incredible film.
my greatest dream ever since i was a kid was to see it as a movie.
and since we just got a pretty cute and fun mario movie, that hope is coming back (even though i know its just copium but lemme dream yknow?)
crossing my fingers for mario movie 2 or 3 or anything really to make an spm adaptation ;-;
I think IMO how The Super Mario Bros movie was rushed and frankly a shallow story is why I'm not optimisitc Illumination will adapt a story like this - I feel the movie didn't even verge the level of Paper Mario 64 which had emotional moments like the first climb to Shooting Star Summit where Mario and Goombario felt the weight of the mission, to not only save the princess, but also save everyone's wishes, and I hope those emotional moments would've added to the movies and not just shoehorned IMO.
I literally just said this. If they were to make this happen then I can see it being very well received.
Agreed so hard; I have *never* wanted a movie or series adaptation of anything more than I've wanted one for Super Paper Mario 😭 the entire presentation of the game, the whole Shakespearean epic feel of it, carried greatly by THE SOUNDTRACK with the reoccurring leimotifs, is just BEGGING to be made into a movie. A series, ideally, like an anime, to do the entire story justice and properly flesh out some things not explored enough in the game (complete with MORE BLUMIERE AND TIMPANI FLASBACKS, PLUS ONES FOR THE MINIONS.....), but beggars can't be choosers so I would accept a movie (probably cutting the most "unnecessary" pure heart chapters for time) if that was what we got. Hell, the story is prime material for a musical format as well; look no further than the original SPM musical songs by Man On The Internet here on youtube, which capitalized on this idea....!
I would sell my goddamn soul for just SOMETHING to be done with this beautiful story. I still remember when the Mario movie was announced, the tiny bit of hopium I had..... 😭but like the other comment said, I don't really have hope anymore that any other movies in that line could ever be serious or complex enough to properly adapt SPM's story, which is incredibly frustrating. I've never minded SPM being a Mario game, but this is exactly what makes adapting it so difficult and unlikely to happen, because as this video discusses, Mario Peach and Bowser (and to a lesser extent but still, Luigi) are not really their own characters, they are protagonist stand-ins so a compelling story can be carried by original characters around them, where so much of the heart (ha) and meat is, yet an adaptation would still mostly have to follow the heroes (though I would also not at all be opposed to an adaptation from the Bleck crew pov....), giving them more depth than the existing Mario movie seemingly really knew how to do. If there was any reason I wish it had been its own separate game instead, it would be this (along with the bitter thought that it wouldn't have gotten all the hate it did if it wasn't tied to the paper mario franchise and thus burdened by the expectations so many people had for what a paper mario game's gameplay was meant to look like...... sigh)
Anyway, someone please make a SPM movie or series happen. I don't know who, I don't know how, but I'd fund it with everything I have 😭😭😭
37:15
i guess they present this "positively" because Mario treats them right, the Pixl's are happy to be with Mario and just they have nothing to say to the group because being trapped alone for so long leaves with little interesting topics that get used up by the time their introduction chapter ends
They aren’t kept captive by Mario, so they aren’t that mad. But yeah, these are the original Pixls, they weren’t feared to rebel because they were simple creatures, seemingly not retaining much of the original soul that was used to make them.
"The Underwhere" is actually just named "Under Land" in the original Japanese version of the game. So that was just a dumb joke that the English localization team came up with for the game. Also, "The Overthere" was originally named "Sky Land."
The joke honestly really fits the series humor so I’m glad that they did it.
I think what makes it work more is that there wasn’t any special attention given to its name; it’s just called the Underwhere and people just accept that.
The fact that the two names not only mirror (Over and Under, Where? and There!) but also are funny wordplay is pretty brilliant, IMO.
The English localization of this game is, no exaggeration, some of the best in Nintendo's library. I don't know what was going on at NOA at the time, but they were really having a good time with their work.
"Under" Land...
Colorful hearts related to souls defeat the twist villain...
Villain merges its body with another...
Two characters of different species with a tragic past, talking on a black screen, planning on leaving a place together...
Afterwards, one of the characters is turned into a nonsentient living creature...
One also goes through a personality change into an over-the-top villain...
I wonder if Toby Fox played this game in his youth.
@@zjzr08 I once heard a theory that the land of the living could be referred to as the "Righthere" (Right here!)
It's such a good joke and continuation of the clever wordplay I'm surprised it was never brought up in the game itself.
The symbolism of the choice to be the hero and take the first pure heart asks the untold question: Do you love the world? If you don't love the world you're trying to save, how can you possibly be the hero that saves it?
I love that The Underwhere is also apparently called World -1 by some in universe, being a nice nod to the glitchy World -1 from the original Super Mario Bros
god as someone who isnt and wasnt raised christian i can completely miss some themes or symbolism, and hearing 'the story of jesus christ' hit me like a bag of bricks thrown from a moving car
Jesus take the wheel!
Yeah when you have a Christian upbringing or even just live in a place that's dominated by Christianity practically every story of sacrifice reads as a Jesus parallel, especially if they later come back. I wonder if other religions have story structures that always read as religious to them in a similar way.
as someone who is and was raised Christian, those themes still went way over my head as a kid, only to smack me with a bag of bricks from a moving car, as you said.
@@hankboog462interesting… I would assume yes but not really sure
@@hankboog462buddhist and hindu stories have a ton of that
It’s never occurred to me until now that Dimentio’s big power, with the glass panes and fire, basically only serve to deal minor damage and otherwise just distract you from its real ability to teleport.
Fire and glass panes. Literally Smoke and Mirrors.
GodDAMMIT, Super Paper Mario.
This was a fun watch. I have never realised that the narrative always focuses on coercion and control and not just when it's about Luigi and Dimentio. Such an interesting deconstruction of themes in a way that makes it feel like it should've been obvious from the start
Being vague so I don't ruin the buildup for others but I will say this: Part 2 makes a compelling, if indirect, case for how complex and involved the character arcs and inner world of Waluigi could be.
GIVE👏WALUIGI👏A👏TELLTALE👏GAME
You're absolutely right. Waluigi forever
Almost 20 years later and we still have one mystery unsolved....
Who could the mysterious Mr. L be?
i can't believe it's been that long
He's green and his name starts with an L, it's obviously Link!
@@ZaxorVonSkyler No that is impossible, my suspicion is that Mr L secret identity is actually... Mr L in disguise
@@diablo.the.cheater Mr L is actually Mr L as seen from above
I’ve heard a theory many years ago that Mr. L was this fellow named Luigi, but I don’t recall a character named Luigi, the only ones I remember are Mario, Bowser, Peach, and Green Mario
I'd never given this game this much thought, but your breakdowns about how each Pure Heart stands for a different type or expression of love and how the theme of control is a constant throughout are so obvious in retrospect. I'm glad you made this and pointed those out!
I have a thought of why Flopside might be in such rough shape beyond just its mirrored form of Flipside, as a serial Super Paper Mario enjoyer, and that is that it may be a remnant of lands belonging to the Tribe of Darkness. The Tribe of Ancients, too, tragically, was lost over and to time, but their legacy seems much more preserved, with members having birthed many many predecessors. By contrast, the Tribe of Darkness lost most of its members very very quickly due to pretty serious lore-related reasons. This could've left these lands pretty seriously under-maintaned, as compared to other worlds occupied by those who were in the Ancients; even places like Yold Town seem pretty well-preserved
SPOILERS, but I find it interested that Luvbi as a Pure Heart seems to suggest that the 'pureness' one of the hearts possesses, becomes most complex, less 'pure', when she is made into a Nimbi. These angels are not 'pure', they speak about kicking ass, cower, and act aloof. It is a selfless act by Luvbi that transforms her back into a Pure Heart, but she is restored to life later, to a more complex form. Thise doesn't have an overarching message, but I do find it interesting.
you know what its implied that dimentio has mostly just- TELEPORTED, them, to hell. which, of course, does make me wonder- Dimentio. Hey, buddy. Whyyyy, do you know about hell
It took a while, but the long journey thru the World of Nothing is most certainly you going the entire rest of the 70 doorways to where King Sammer sat with his Pure Heart before he was consumed
Because the other worlds seem uniquely ALL stylized similarly, and marked by little digitalized-like quirks and with strange equations and patterns in the skies and landscapes themselves... Did... Did the Ancients create all these worlds? And actually, a question I've had since realizing Queen Jaydes has the same theme as Merlee- Were she and Grambi once Ancients, too?...
Getting to the part about the Pixls, it reminds me why I might've fallen for Kingdom Hearts later in the same way as Super Paper Mario:
Unexpected bright and colorful part-RPG, part-platformer hiding great complexity and darkness, greatly centered around the bonds of love and friendship and hearts, with a wacky set of main characters and a LOT of supporting ones, in which
*SPOILERS*
the optional lore backstory explains that in the ancient past, literal CHILDREN were both manipulated into almost destroying the world and turned into TOOLS, not necessarily in that order; and I find that just FASCINATING that this has happened twice to popular franchises...
coming back to this video, it occurs to me that when you get to the part about combating the forces of coercion with... more forced sticking to the script of 'light', it really reminds me that the Tribe of Darkness is really just a splinter of the SAME PEOPLE, the Tribe of Ancients, and so they are both doomed by their choices: The Ancients become nearly usurped by the Pixls they made, possibly to keep their loved ones in mind after death but becoming mere tools; the Tribe of Darkness tried to avoid this but became so obsessed with blood purity it removed all heart from the equation, and thus- Bleck. At the finale of the game, neither Prognosticis seems to predict Dimentio betraying the Count or the Pure Heart reforging; the choices the characters make define what happens, no matter what talk their is of fate. Things happen as they will and we will make them happen. We will predict our own lives but they may differ despite our surety.
I love that the "haha we are doomed it cannot be stopped HAH HAH HAH" dialogue is some fucking heart-wrenching dialogue dropped suddenly not by a major character, but by Laughing X-Naut, Sammer Guy #30
@@OhNoBohNoWas the Keyblade War actually done by young key welders?
@@zjzr08 Yeah, the mobile game Kingdom Hearts χ shows how the Keyblade War happened, and that those who took part in it were all about as young as teenagers.
7:15 I love u, shapes *[gives the shapes a smooch]*
1:00:52
About the "less than 1%", there are speculations that people speed through the club nintendo surveys by scoring all 1s so they can get rewards from doing it
To be fair the animal print clothes aspect of the cragons is quite clearly just a Flintstones reference.
GRAND DAD?!
@@Sov_spoiled FLEENSTONES???
Flintstones reference? yes, obviously, and that's all the developers were probably thinking when they did it. the Flintstones didn't just come into existence out of the aether though.
*Grand Dad reference
This might be one of the greatest video essays I've ever seen. I've never seen such an interesting breakdown of a game that seems to be so overlooked. I mean its also so cool the direction of the game in general, the ability to look at the mechanics of Paper Mario and see how it is about trying to avoid rigidity and discover different angles, and also seeing how normally Mario games are so limited because of the control that it feels like the consumers have over what Mario can and can't be, and being able to incorporate almost a full thesis statement in game design in correlation to those ideas is beautiful.
43:56 When Queen Jaydes said to Paper Mario, that his game is not over yet, then it can be interpreted as "Your life isn't over yer.", since the dead people, that Paper Mario can talk to earlier in the same chapter, say that people always land there, when "their games are over" (aka their lifes are over).
One small correction, King Sammer wasn’t forcing Mario to fight all his men. It was actually Mimi, who disguised herself to intentionally waste time.
Anyways, this video was absolutely amazing! It’s so wild how this game has profound messages about love and death, and then there are also toilet and fish bowl jokes.
This game is really something special, and this analysis perfectly summed up why.
I saw that read in some other videos and idk I think it was really him in 6-1 and Mimi was only in 6-2. He had the real Pure Heart or at least appeared to
And thank you :)
@@Skyehoppers 6-4 it's directly stated king sammer was gonna have you fight all 100 men for the pure heart but because you already got the pure heart rewards you with a bunch of cards instead so, yeah he definitely was the one who made them do the trials
as an active speedrunner of SPM (which reminds me, I need to export my highlights from the past year lol), it's very easy to forget just how deep of a story this game really has and how enthralled with it i was as a child growing up with it. super paper mario will forever be my favorite game for so many reasons. thank you for this incredible breakdown of this beautiful game 🙏
Mario being "bound by his brand" is actually a really interesting idea. All of the most popular characters tend to have personalities that they are most known for. Bugs bunny is a clever trickster, Mickey mouse is good hearted, Sonic is cocky, ect. They are kept in these roles because it is what we mist recognize them for and what makes their authors the most money. In other words, it is their destiny.
Yeah. Like imagine a Link who wouldn't go into battle to safe Zelda and Hyrule (or whatever other Kingdom)... People would be confused about this sudden character change.
@@andre_601thats just windwaker before they kidnap his sister
@@carlosemilio5180 well i mean, in lore, that Link wasnt really a Link, he wasnt given the triforce of courage... he literally had to dredge up its broken pieces and earn his spot as a link
The last time I played this game, I didn't know what a fraction was. It's crazy to me that the whole theme flew over my head when I was only single digits in age. Now, almost a young adult, I think it's time I relive a game I am super nostalgic for, despite having only played it once over half a decade ago.
Whether mainline platformer or spinoff, I would love nothing more than to have a Mario game with a story like this. Mario's always had an identity crisis since the 2010s, and that identity crisis still lingers in the modern day.
I love to see people take deeper looks at this wonderfully bizzare game's themes and depth.
I will leave you with an observation by my friend when we lets played the game on my channel:
"Flipside and Flopside are like the before and after meth photos aren't they?"
what an observation
@@mendaix Okie dokie, I have a playlist with the whole thing in it, or you can just watch the 2 hour long comedy highlights video of the whole thing I compiled.
@@mendaix Good choice, there's a lot of funny stuff in the episodes that didn't make it into the comedy highlights.
31:31 not annoying; your attention to detail is as charming as it is impressively comprehensive. You approach every subject with an assiduous level of consideration, taking this game which I loved quite a bit and giving me a retrospective that elucidates why it is so charming, and even better than I initially realized. (As well as its ideological flaws.) Thank you for this brilliant video essay.
Excellently phrased. Well done.
Hey, I don't usually comment on video essays like this but for once I've found one so compelling I couldn't resist. Super Paper Mario is one of my favorite games EVER made, its story and characters having influenced me so strongly as a kid that they lead me to become a game developer myself with a story not quite as tender as this one, but still with similar aspects. I never noticed all the game's themes as a kid growing up, but having them written out like this has made me realize that they've still imprinted on me all these years later. This is maybe the SINGLE best overview of the game's story, and I look forward to whatever you'll be making in the future.
I loved reading this comment, thank you for sharing it
A game that isn't subtle about its deeper story, yet this video still shines a light onto major throughlines of the story that I never noticed. This is a really well-made and well-paced video, and the way you discuss the theming is sensitive and insightful. Thank you for making this
Blumiere and Timpani's love story actually made me cry in this video, even though I never managed to finish this game. So Super Paper Mario made me cry and I think I should go finish it now...
This video essay re-opened some feelings I didn't realize I held, or maybe held nearly as strongly as I evidently did by me tearing up during parts of the analysis lol. Great stuff, loved how you really got into the meat of the themes throughout the entire game as well as pointed out some of its flaws. Beautiful video.
If you want to see a playthrough of the game, I thoroughly recommend the one RTGame did. Partially because I watch him a lot, but also he did the game so sincerely that even as an audience you could take in the game's story in it's entirety.
this is a good reminder that SPM has always made me cry and i need to replay it again
Two comments! First, I really love the idea that this game's actual gameplay structure is related to its themes and message, even beyond the chapter 6 twist. I've never seen that perspective before, but whether the developers intended it or not, it's an absolutely masterful premise. This whole video is fantastic, but I wanted to highlight that part in particular, as it's truly such a unique yet fitting outlook on the gameplay, wonderful job. And second, glad you seen to be defending your points against negative comments so well. Don't let the hate get to you! This is an excellent piece of media. Art, even.
that ">1%" comment is dubious, even moreso when looking at the conditions in which it arose. I am not claiming to be an expert, and would defer to someone who has actually looked into the stats (i cant remember if it was arlo or chuggaconroy in which i first heard them, i want to say arlo, but chugga has been just as vocal about modern paper mario, especially when dissecting the ways in which sticker star failed), but the short version argument i saw was this: "club nintendo is a small sample size; there were no checks or restrictions on the survey in question to ensure only those who played the game participated, no was the top default option on the survey, and completing surveys provided rewards." That latter series of factors heavily suggest that people who didnt even play the game took the survey for the reward, and stuck to the default "no" to get the process over with as quickly as possible (minimizing effort to maximize reward) or otherwise saw "mario" and assumed the story was nothing special, again despite not playing it for themselves.
Needless to say, the survey in question is a horrible metric for the time of its release, and we can only hope the TTYD remake is the first step to fixing the modern paper mario's issues. (no, this is not a comment about the modern lacking any pros, but the cons are the thing keeping old fans away.)
Fantastically well written video all around, but I gotta praise that intro especially. Instantly gets its hooks in, thoughtfully gives baseline information in a way people both familiar and unfamiliar with Paper Mario can process, and sets up the themes you keep reinforcing from different angles across the whole rest of the video. I always struggle with compelling intros personally, so it's really insightful to see one that checks all the boxes at such a high level in just the first 2 minutes.
Thank you! I spend a lot of time on my intros, glad it's coming across
I will say that Mimi has sort of haunted me since I was a kid, not in a big way, but like it's one of the biggest memories that come back about the game and was probably my first encounter with a "the thing" type shapeshifter horror. (Dooplis is a different kind of shapeshifter, if you know what I mean)
She awoke things I did not understand at the time as child
I grew up with Super Paper Mario, and always thought the hate was weirdly unjust. This video really had a strong impact on me, and ended up making me cry near the end of it. I really think that this game is something special with such a beautiful story, and you captured it so perfectly. Thank you.
Mimi scared the CRAP out of me as a kid. I remember getting lost in where I needed to go and she popped up in a room, the music changed, hearing the sound effects of her legs just made me start crying. It didn’t help she had the same name as my cat…
Anyways, this video was phenomenal. Super Paper Mario never got the recognition it deserved and it seems more people lately are giving it the flowers it should’ve gotten back then. I always loved the game, and it’s still one of my all time favorites. Equal parts funny, quirky, and heartwarming. Fantastic work!
I like to think Francis is actually just a representation on how they see themselves.
Just want to leave a comment (partly for algorithm boost, but mostly) to congratulate you on such an excellent analysis.
I love listening to essays on my favorite media, particularly because they often offer perspectives different than my own and they open my eyes to things I most definitely didn't catch myself. To hear how the story contained in this game is essentially one of love kind of blew my mind, because though the story of Blumiere and Timpani is most certainly that, I never saw how that extended to the rest of the world we explore as well, particularly love as it pertains to sacrifice. There's so much here to extrapolate and I love how you so succinctly were able to condense your thoughts on the subject without making the video feel like you had to talk about every single detail.
Though I love this game, I've never felt the need to play it more than twice, and neither time did I come across the story of the Pixl Queen, so that was entirely new information for me, and as someone who loves narrative in games, it's really regrettable that so many different elements of the lore went unexplored, unexpanded or outright ignored.
This is the first of your videos I've watched, and I definitely can't wait to watch more!
I absolutely loved Super Paper Mario as a kid, it was one of the first more story-based games I played and to this day the story is very near and dear to my heart
Excellent vid. I've had a thesis about this game for quite some time that it's fundamentally about "perspective" hence the 2D/3D flipping, the Flopside residents offering identical yet opposite perspectives on those in Flipside, respectfully engaging in Sammer Kingdom culture despite the situation, and so on (if I listed every example, it'd be every single event in the entire game, lol). There's always two sides to everything (people, places, conflicts, relationships, thoughts, emotions), and the Pure Hearts (a beautifully symmetrical shape, by the way) appear when these halves/opposites/etc. unite or otherwise understand each other. Maybe this sounds a lot like "love" - that's because it obviously is! In many ways, perspective IS love, which this game explores not just in thoughtful and emotional ways, but often comically literal ways as well. I was wondering if anyone would ever meaningfully write about this and really dig into what "love" means in this game beyond "these two characters are in romantic love with each other," which is the singular takeaway I mostly see online. Phenomenal work, and thanks for saving me the effort of needing to write a vid like this myself ;)
oh fascinating!!!
Super Paper Mario was the first ever video game I played. I was too young to truly put the pieces together, and even then it was still one of the most beautiful stories I’d seen told by that time, and even long past that. Replaying it now that I’m older, is much easier to see the beauty in the story. The ending still makes me cry to this day. But as I get older, I notice that the way I interact with video games as an art form and as games has changed dramatically. I used to spend hours in the kitchen, mixing and matching items to see what crazy items i could come up with, or checking every single nook and cranny for every single secret item or character I could find. Now though, I seem to have lost that drive. It’s just straight to the goal every single time. I think when I replay this game, I should do it blind and really just spend time interacting with the world. Perhaps I can wash off some of the cynicism that has been placed upon me by modern stories. The world of Super Paper Mario is one filled to bursting with life and personality. I think that there’s another message that can be found in the depth of personality in the word, contrasted with the ever-present threat of the Void: cherish the world around you, because one day it will be gone. This game has so much depth and charm, that I could easily replay it again and again and again without ever getting bored, and not many games, especially not in the era if micro transactions and focus group tested, rigid experiences can do that to me. This game is absolute art, and I’m shocked only 1% of people polled enjoyed that beautiful story.
When I first finished this game I cried at the ending. I will fully admit that this video successfully brought all those memories and feelings back-you made me cry again. (I mean that in a good way)
This was such an amazing video, thank you
❤🧡💛💚💙💙💜🤍
13:29 I had a Japanese copy of SPM when I was a kid(I couldn’t read Japanese), and it would be actual YEARS before I looked up a walkthrough and got through what never occurred to me to be a maze. Most of my time in the game was spent on cooking and power levelling(not even efficiently). It would be close to 100 hours of playtime before I actually progressed through 2-4.
I know it's fun to say that Dimentio actually kills the heroes when he sends them to the Underwhere/Overthere, but that's not entirely true. As you said, the "devil will soon decide [that the death] didn't count anyway". Queen Jaydes senses that Mario and Luigi are still alive. So Dimentio did, in fact, NOT kill the heroes but rather transported them to the land of ended games in an alive state.
I never fully understood the message of love that this game was giving, but now I do.
I don't really know how to project all that I am feeling now but that you for making this video, it means so much to me.
this video is so... beautiful. that's the best way i have to describe it. you're really telling a story, and you're doing it fantastically. i was totally captured and invested. this is geniunely amazing! so glad to have found this channel
I clicked thinking that this would be an explanation of gameplay, that it would explain how game overs can be satisfying and educational. This was nothing like that, it was much better. You've earned a subscriber!
I am really late to this video, but I am glad that I finally got around to it. This was always a title that stuck out to me when I was younger, but I could never quite find the words as to why that was, other than it just feeling different. Very different.
This video touches upon things I have never even personally realized. That Mr. L might be Luigi's inner insecurities bubbling to the surface was a particularly poignant observation.
I think this is the Paper Mario that's always stuck with me the most. Amidst debates between 1 and 2, cries for a remake (that we are now getting, I guess) and the dunks on the recent games, it was always this one that carved out the largest space in my heart.
I don't have a whole lot of my own to add here. Haven't played the game myself in quite a long time. Perhaps I should change that. Great video, and as ever, I look forward to more.
I don't think this will ever not be my favourite Paper Mario game. It had such a profound impact on me growing up, it took me years to beat it. It lasted through my whole youth.
also the music style and sound design it and ttyd has is so good and wish i knew how to refer to it. I wish Nintendo would do something as weird and continually unexpected as this again.
Super paper Mario is one of my favorite games of all time, and this just bottled together so many of my opinions of the game! I loved this more than you can believe, and considering that it was the first game I ever finished, I’m not surprised I cried at the final scene of Blumiere and Timpani. This game isn’t perfect, but it never needed to be. It just needed to be real. Thank you
Thank you mr. goodman
This entire video essay was more entertaining than the entirety of the last semester of my high school english class. Thank you.
I just graduated but I literally just watched RUclips all day with my school iPad, I could’ve watched this entire video and watched an entire anime episode on my phone before the next period began 😅😂
What I expected: "Oh wow I didn't know that that's pretty cool"
What I got: sad
for real? Stories of impending doom are where it's at... such a... vibe... I guess.
Having never touched a Paper Mario game (and at this point, not sure I'll get to them, what with all that impending doom and such) this video was a great primer. Nice to see there's more going on in this series than I've always assumed.
Please at least play paper mario ttyd when the remake drops on switch. No impending doom in that one
Super Paper Mario is a game story where you definitely need to be older and more experienced with life in general to truly appreciate it, I feel. I played Super Paper Mario in 2008, not long after it released. I didn't get. I didn't understand. I lacked the media literacy to properly appreciate the story, I just thought it was fun and had lots of fun characters and moments and amazing villains. But I come back to the game now, and I can really, truly appreciate the story for what it is. Articulate why it is that the story is as amazing as it is.
I wouldn't necessarily say that the villains even do love wrong most of the time. While some cases like O'Chunks giving up his free will is definitely wrong, it's treated as a learning experience. That he came close to the answer, but missed the mark. Nastasia had the answer from the start. She allowed herself to go to hell with Count Bleck if it meant that he might love her. She loved him, deeply and truly. But he could never love anyone other than Timpani. Even so she didn't stop loving him, unrequited though she knew it was. And she selflessly sacrificed herself at the final moment for him. Granted the game pulled its punches with her sacrifice, but then it was her love and sacrifice that reignited the pure hearts for the Dimentio fight. That she was willing to take a (magic) bullet for Count Bleck.
Love is not taking things by force.
Love is not superficial attraction.
Love is not ownership, no matter how dutiful.
Love is not abandonment.
Love is not forcing people to do things against their will, even for the greater good.
Love is not adherence to tradition.
Love is not just for yourself and those close to you.
Love is not control.
Love is to give things freely and fairly.
Love is to accept others for who they are
Love is to allow freedom.
Love is to fulfill your obligations to others, even if they do not fulfill theirs toward you.
Love is to cooperate and understand one another
Love is to be flexible for the sake of those who matter most
Love is to be given to anyone and everyone.
And of course, as you said numerous times in this video, Love is Sacrifice. What a beautiful game, really.
Thank you for making this, regretfully as a child I never formed such a cohesive narrative, or had a large take away from the game such as the idea of defining "what love is", and truthfully even into adulthood I never looked back and rectified this. I know I love Super, in similar yet distinct ways to TTYD. The story told and the characters always stuck out to me. Through my current lens I could describe TTYD as more of a D&D adventure, or just a standard well written fantasy. Where the world feels real and meaningful, in which the characters inhabit it. Where as for Super its more interested in presenting specific characters and their individual stories. This is my read now, and in simpler terms it was back then as well.
Admittedly, I do somewhat regret watching this video, while I am grateful and enjoyed it, on a personal level it hurts knowing I won't be able to play through it and come to these conclusions on my own. I will still play through it and surely have my own take aways, but the fact I missed such obvious overarching themes such as love and control does sting. Not trying to dismiss your analysis to be clear, I love all of the ways to framed and demonstrated their import, just that my child brain literally missed them *ENTIRELY*.
That all being said, my actual genuine feedback on the video is a bit painful, and truthfully I don't think very helpful. I found your way of presenting information very clean and well organized, all of the points were well made and while I honestly wish it was longer with a bit more analysis of ideas (ie topics mentioned by other comments) I think fundamentally from an information perspective the video was stellar. However, from an enjoyment perspective I was left wanting. Its... hard to put into works exactly and even reconcile with myself why, but I found the passion lacking. despite my earlier groaning and seemingly self admittance that I didn't care enough about the game as a child, the game is very close to my heart. I care about it a lot and truthfully, I think I was waiting for your video to make me cry, or feel an overwhelming amount of joy. Its unreasonable and unfair of me to have such expectations, but throughout your video I couldn't help but be reminded of NeverKnowsBest's Nier Automata review, a video that made me cry over and over again. The subject, the formatting, even your usage of the iconic Memory. I kept thinking you would play it just one more time and I would truly resonate with what was being said. but it never came. In many ways your content reminds me of that video. Its probably my favorite video on RUclips, which makes it rather unfair, but it made me want it even more.
I think the portion that I would truly say was a failing was your coverage of Luvbi, your analysis was again insightful, and the comparison to the bible entirely slipped past me, even your explanation of the symbolism of "turn based combat being dead" honestly blew my mind. I was always so confused by that as a child and I do fully believe now that the fetch quests, the tedium and the turn based combat were all intended to be "dead." But back to Luvbi, While I appreciate you covering everything, including her reappearance. I kinda just wish you had let the video sit on her for a bit. As a child, and still now, her death is so much more meaningful than nearly everything else in the story. The destruction of the Samurai world is iconic, and it still blows my mind. But she is one of the only true *deaths*. There is no afterlife for her, only nothingness. That to me raises the stakes and the symbolism of everything else that came before. That is the truest acknowledgement of death that the Mario franchise will likely ever have, and it allows the rest of the game, including the end have so much more meaning. Because it speaks of the idea that there is a finality to life, that there is a sacrifice worse than loneliness, control, death, despair, torture, or anything else featured in the game. And that despite that they will still be remembered. I think that is beautiful, and if I saw a video solely dedicated to that, I would cry, there is no doubt. To put this in less specific terms, your video is incredibly well written, and in my mind wastes as little time as possible. Essays similar to it would usually be 30-40 minutes longer at the minimum, so I respect the amount of effort getting it so short must have taken, but I do wish you had allowed more time for moments to sit with the audience before changing tracks.
That all being said, I don't think this is really fair to you, and probably not really helpful either. I've only seen a few of your videos and I'm not confident that what you are trying to do, what your ideal video is, matches with what I'm looking for, and I apologize for my undue criticism if this is the case. This was largely a rambling mess and in ways I just hope this goes unseen.
It is really interesting that the Light Prognosticus is the False prophecy
It was created to counteract the Dark one, the true prophecy
And it was only through love that the world was saved from the true prophecy
I’m happy knowing the game I loved as a kid, with a story i couldn’t begin to understand, was as good as I hoped it could be.
I've played this game probably 20-30 times and have never heard the pixl queen/uprising story, that's so interesting!
honestly i have no idea what super paper mario is or what kind of video im going to watch, but the title of this video is one of the strongest ive seen in awhile. huge props for that alone, man
This is my favorite Mario game of all time, and was formative for both why I like Mario as a series and why I consider video games my favorite form of art: because even little baby 11 year old me could understand that what I was watching was beautiful.
(Now that I'm older, I'm discovering one-by-one that a lot of my favorite childhood games were about love, lol.)
Always love seeing video essays on this game.
I don't think Dimentio actually killed Mario when he sent him to the Underwhere. I think he simply teleported him to the underwhere. That explains why Mario wasn't supposed to be there (Why it "didn't count") and he gets sent back. This could be similar to what happens when he enters the Underwhere via the door later. The same could be true for Luigi.
About the O'Chunks thing, you're right. Irish surnames consist of O'(clan name) whereas Scottish surnames usually consist of Mac(clan name).
Source: My Irish family and having lived in Ireland for four years has taught me the distinction
the TTYD remake makes me really hopeful for them being able to make another amazing paper mario game. the remake really comes across as them understanding what people loved about TTYD so much, they could've just ported the game but they really added so much attention to detail and quality of life to it. even compared to the other paper mario games, super paper mario's story is so much stranger than anything else in the mario brand, and i would love it so much if they did something similar to it again
honestly, i wish we could see what super paper mario would look like if it was just completely disconnected from the mario brand, even though i know that could never happen
Amazing video! I hadn't really given much thought to the pixls and how they contradict the themes of the game, nor the overall themes of sacrifice. This was an incredibly well put together and in-depth analysis of the game's story and characters, and I definitely look forward to more of your content in the future. Your editing and structure was top notch! (PS. When I played through the Mimi section in my most recent playthrough on a Wii U, Mimi did appear briefly when I was lost exploring the maze).
I also wanted to thank you for giving my Super Paper Mario video a little shoutout at the end. It's so funny because I had recently subscribed to you after hearing about your channel through Lextorias's video recommending 100 different RUclipsrs, and I thought your Wind Waker video was fantastic! It's been a busy few days for me so I'm glad I got to check this one out. When I upload my next Paper Mario video I'll be sure to give your channel a shoutout. Everyone in my Discord server has been talking about how great your analysis is, and it deserves more attention!
44:15 I appreciate you bringing up the strangeness of how their games weren’t “truely over”
To me, i always saw this as a missed opportunity for what could’ve been an interesting look into the nature of 1-up mushrooms, as either a frowned upon substance queen jaydes tries to get rid of in the underwhere, or as a “pinnacle of alchemy” type deal that maybe the ancients were trying to develop.
This is fanfic territory tho and theres gotta be some cooler ideas from soneone else watching this!
I mean, the answer was given by Jaydes and then Dimentio at the end, He simplely teleported them there, he just disguised it with fake explosions to still make bleck think he is on his side. Could've they still made something with the concept of death in the mario universe? yeah. But this situation was just that, no death at all
@@francjirachieven then they would’ve dropped it by the next game anyways
Can confirm I Am Error is one of the best to ever do it.
So true
@@Skyehoppers You're pretty swisho yourself there!
Oh my gosh my favorite video essayist just made a banger video on one of my favorite games if all time
This must be one of the best video essays I've come across on this platform. You are well spoken and your ideas are substantial and, personally, nourished my soul. I see you don't post as regularly, which I assume it's only inevitable - great works take time. But the subjects you do speak about are also great, so I look forward to the next installment.
I think something that's understated and, probably importantly, really really hard to actually put into words is that this game still FEELS like Paper Mario. The soul underneath it, even though it is so different, is still the same. Sticker Star doesn't. I think even Color Splash and Origami King, games that I do like, don't. Not in the same way. The lore also happens to be really cool, deep and wide. And the fact that not only do further games ignore it, but also have restricted it so much, feels like a disservice. So much of this work IS lived in. Those people just don't exist anymore. It feels like a universe in which the void won. I really hope this game gets its day in the light. It deserves it. It's so underappreciated.
Glad someone's putting more light to this game, was a part of my childhood and will go down as one of the best games I've ever played
I also love the subtle joke that Demintio tells you that he will take you to the next world, and he isn't lying.
This was an extremely high quality and detailed essay of debatably one of the most intricate Nintendo properties present. I love your Analysis on the "Love is sacrifice" take, it's well crafted and put together clearly with passion. I'll certainly be rewatching this. I love your editing style as well, it's very polished and cohesive! Well done!
this game has lived in my head rent free since i was a child. the scene of mimi breaking her own neck and sprouting legs from her head impressively dark considering where it came from. if it was done in a style that was at all realistic this game would not fly for young kids
This video reminds me why I should love more.