With the new critical defense ammo you dony have to have a 45, 357 to feel safe. The new 9mm, 38 and 380 CD ammo is OUTSTANDING. My Riget security 380 packed with 15 +1 95 grains hp,s is one bad mamma jamma. .
You could object about more things here... Different barrel lengths. Too few attempts to conclude anything statistically relevant. But that's not the point of course---just as you say, it's just for fun (and he's actually doing a good job at entertaining :-)).
Another fun, but maybe slightly more obscure option, is the 9x25 Dillon. A 10mm case necked down to 9 that spits out 125 grains at over 1600 fps from a 5-inch tube. Or 90 grain Lehigh screwdriver tips at 1800...
as far as the sand testing. I still feel you should be using the USPS flat rate boxes, either the small or the medium, thin ones. you could stack them so that we could know if it made it through 2 inches or 4 inches or 6 inches of sand.
I have a 4" revolver and a 20" rifle. In a rifle, it's no 308, but it will drop med sized game like deer out to 75yd 100yd. Great brush gun. Dropped a 200lb boar on the spot at about 80yd with the 20" lever rifle with pmc soft point 158gr.
.357 has double the case capacity, greater COAL( hence the ability to utilize longer-heavier bullets)and operates at +10,000 psi over 9mm 9mm is pretty much limited to 147-150ish grain max bullets and relatively fast burning powders to maximize it's small case volume and shorter overall length. The .357's larger case capacity allows it to utilize slower burn rate powders in longer barrels for increased energy gain vs. the 9mm. You'll get increased velocity/ energy from both with increasing barrel length to a point 9mm is gonna max out in a shorter burn column with lower total energy regardless in a cartridge appropriate max loading, all other variables being equal. In short, anything much past 8-10 inches gains you little to none in 9mm .357 Carbine ballistics are more comparable to a 30/30 than any service sidearm Apologies for the long winded reply
@jmjones7897 in a handgun, 9mm is better than 357. 357 has longer burning powder normally, which means it needs the longer barrel. that's also why in a carbine, 9mm stops accelerating at 8-10". 357 continues to accelerate though
The advantage seems to be brand dependent Got a Henry lever gun in 357 mag and have some factory from Fiocchi and Federal the Fiocchi gains barely any out the rifle (from box specs) whereas the Federal gains over 20%, the sound difference was dramatic
I have a lever action in 357 mag. It will shoot 38 special like most of them will. I think it holds a couple more 38 specials in the mag. If I shoot 100 or 200 rounds of 357, my shoulder gets pretty sore (what can I say, I'm old and fragile😊). I can shoot the 38 specials all day like shooting a 22. I'd be very curios to see a comparison of velocities and power shooting those rounds through a 20 inch barrel vs a 4 or 6 inch pistol barrel. I really enjoy your videos, keep up the good work!
I've got a Taurus with a two inch barrel. Love putting the 38's through it but I'm like you. Old and breakable and the magnum rounds freaking hurt. Lol.
@@exothermal.sprocket those are the penetrators, right? I've been thinking about getting the hardcast for brown bear protection. (I know, probably would never need it, but who knows) Then I saw that Penetrator round, and figured that would probably do rhe trick as well. Lol
@@letsdothis9063 The ones I mentioned are Hornady XTP loaded hot by Buffalo Bore. The Xtreme Penetrators are a Lehigh Defense bullet are loaded by Underwood, they primarily tumble and that's how they do their damage. For bear I'd go with a very large flat nose hard cast. In .357mag probably 180gr. Buffalo Bore, Grizzly, DoubleTap all have stout hardcast loads. Underwood runs less velocity in rimmed cartridges for some reason. Solid copper are effective no doubt, but I prefer Barnes expanding type for that, as heavy as you can get them (Buffalo Bore Barnes 140gr XPB). Maybe a bonded-type would also work in 158gr or heavier, so long as it's loaded to true magnum power, not warm commercial stuff.
One thing I do have to say regarding the 9mm is, it may not be the biggest or fastest round out there, but it was designed right. For a small cartridge, it can be pretty potent.
Especially considering the barrel length differences. 38 would be blown put of the water by 9 with similar barrel length using relatively strength ammo. Be that standard target in both calibers or +p
Ammunition advances over the past 10 years have really brought the 9mm's potency up. Little difference between it and the 40S&W with less recoil and the ability to carry handguns with higher magazine capacity.
Yes, I do have a 9mm. Can it compete with the .357 for muzzle energy…no. BUT, thanks to modern ammunition, it is just as effective at stopping a threat. It’s come a long way over the past 120 years. Now, if someone is using FMJ’s for self defence, I would use something bigger than the 9mm.
I am old, nearly 3/4 of a century. Back in the day, there was no gel. The makers used 7/8 inch soft pine boards spaced one inch apart for ammo testing. The 357 Magnum was king with this test, even over the 44 Magnum. So, that was all we had to go by. This info was published and well known. The 9mm showed good performance in the wood, also. I started handloading in 1972. Norma sold 44 cal steel jacketed bullets in soft point and hollow point 240 gr. They were called the Tri-Clad. Steel jacket, nickel plated and then clear lacquer coated. Very accurate with my WW296 full loads. They were also the king of my crude wood penetration tests. I used a foot long green pine 6 inch about diameter log., standing up. The 357 would not penetrate through. The 44 Mag went through the log like it was made of of Swiss cheeze. Elmer Keith admitted it penetrated as well as his 44 cal 250 grain SWC. I also shot it through various metal stuff which you should not try at home. This is a great video! I would like to see more of this type. I have never been attacked by a board or concrete block, but it makes for a fun video.
I remember reading penetration testing in my 55 vintage Gun Digest, which I studied as if it were the bible. The prices of guns, especially the .45 Colt, would make these youngsters cry.
Stupid question here - shouldn't this test use individual cubes for each bullett fired? It seems to me that the fist 2 shots weakened the structural integrity of the wood which made the 9mm look like it did more damage than it did. I don't know & that's why I am asking.
@@terry_willis I see what your saying and that makes sense in so far as what he was trying to do, but I still can't reconcile the logic of using the same piece of wood for all 3 rounds *when* each round is a different caliber. I'm C student that never fiished Jr College and yet I keep thinking that the structural integrity of the wood has to have been compromised and that has to play a role in the test in some way. But like I said I'm a C student with no qualifications
The wood should be fine (not sure, just an assumption), but the sand needs to filtered after each shot to remove old bullets. The sand test is by far the worst set up. It could be much more interesting though, if set up properly.
There’s really no perfect option for the wood block. Same block = compromised structural integrity. Different blocks= different densities regardless of how much effort you go through. So it a classic catch .22
I love your videos! My only critique would be that each caliber should have its own wood block. It would seem that, especially with high caliber rounds, every additional shot would weaken the wood!
It's close with a slight advantage to the .38+P with relative advantage of .38 increasing with barrel length. The .38+P is more of an industry standard than a hard CIP/ SAAMI type engineering standard What it works out to un practical terms is this 4" barrel 38+p 158gr @ 1150fps and 21,500psi 4.7" barrel 9mm Standard pressure 147gr @ 950-1000fps and 33,000psi 9mm+p 147gr hardcast @ 1050-1100fps Velocities out of shorter barrels are comparable w/ the 9mm+p maxing out for practical purposes at the standard 4-5" barrel length .38+p will continue gain advantage in longer barrels At same 21,500 psi you're talking 158gr @12,500 in a 6" revolver with gains dropping off past about 10-12" w/ max velocities in the 16-20" barrel 9mm gains dropping off @ about 7-8" and maxing out around 10-12" of barrel length. You can get a little more out of a longer barrel in 9mm with lighter bullets and larger chargers of marginally slower burn rate powder. Really just doesn't have the case capacity to take advantage of slower powders in longer barrels vs. peak pressure In a stronger gun that same .38 can be loaded far closer to .357 levels particularly with heavier bullets
357 wins. I believe when .357 was introduced it was 180gr at 1400fps out of a 6in barrel. It was used on lions in Africa and walrus up north. They nerfed it when police started carrying it.
10mm is as close as an auto pistol can get to 357 mag (not counting 44 automags or Wildeys or big huge gas powered guns like Desert Eagles... I'm talking normal sized carryable auto pistols) But a 357 loaded to it's full potential still beats the 10mm. 10mm is certainly no slouch though and can match regularly loaded 357
There are so many variables with ammo for these guns that I dont see the point in testing unless the bullet weights are all the same and they are standard non +P factory loads all from the same company. Otherwise whats the point, there so much room for variables its nothing more than just a fun time at the range.
I do too. I carry a snub because of that. It has more than enough power to do the job, but moreover the sound and the literal ring of fire that comes out is enough for most people to nope out. It's kinda like hearing a shotgun rack, but not as innocent
@@cuzz63 I have a friend who just traded a ruger 5.7 for a 357 deagle in a straight trade, somehow. I imagine it's kinda like. It's not quite as easily concealed and we are going to hit the range tomorrow and I'll get to see the fireball from it. But no, I've never seen a coonan, it looks nice in a quick Google, 1911 style seems magic, it reminds me of the 44 from _magnum force_
357 guys: He didnt use the 1700fps nuclear loads to overcompensate more! 9mm: Shot placement and 5 extra magazines help me cope. .38spc: forever alone 🤓
I dunno, the 9mm did pretty damn good against the 347, especially when you remember it was out of a shorter barrel. Granted, there is a lot hotter .357 on the market but that is pretty hot for 9mm
That’s if you get caught up in caliber. Shot placement is most important. Getting hit in the lung with a 357, you have a hole in your lung. Getting hit in the heart with a 9, pick out your head stone.
factory ammo-wise, the order is 38 spl, 9mm, 357, lowest to highest. But from a reloader's perspective, it is 9mm, 38, 357, with the 38 even having an advantage over the 357 in guns with short cylinders and shooting longer bullets. 357 and 38 are much bigger cartridges than the 9mm with much greater powder capacity and energy potential.
My aunt had a blued 38 special snub nose revolver with a ivory grip when I was a kid. It was her purse gun my uncle bought her for anniversary.. Mom liked the gun but not the color so my aunt bought mom a chromed out one with the ivory handles for her bday. Don't dismiss a 38 it's a pretty good caliber and small enough for for a lady to carry and shoot.
Just liked and subscribed. Very interesting and unique testing. Would like to see a test with .357 180gr hard cast. Maybe put some plywood on lower half of you protective shield. 😝
Basic training, many decades ago, taught that 18 ins. of soil will stop any small arms. That is why we stacked sand bags three high and three deep around fox holes.
JUST THIN HOW FAR THE BULLET GOES AFTER A PERSON GET HIT AND HOW MANY OTHERS ARE GOING TO GET HIT AFTER THE BAD PERSONS ; BECAUSE NO WALLS ARE THAT THICK !...
You do a pretty good job of making a level playing field for testing of all things. I put your testing in the camp of the legendary Paul Harrell. And while I like his meat target in place of basic gel testing, the hard barriers is useful and fun. Have you figured out why the Army and Marines fill sand bags yet? ;)
Problems with methodology.... I have a few problems with your methodology. You tested both revolver and semi-automatic. Even though the semi-automatic had a shorter barrel, the barrels of the revolvers were vented....that is they were revolvers. You should have tested all semi-automatic or all revolver. They make 357 magnums and 38 specials in semi-automatic and revolver, they also make 9 mm in semi-automatics and revolver.... Other than that, it was a good video and I enjoyed it. I'm glad your voice didn't permanently raise a few octaves there, if you catch my drift. I also think that your screen will be plate next time we see it!!
I'll just stick with my S&W 686 - .357MAGNUM! although, I do own a S& W Shield 9.mm. I think you might get better results with better ammo for the .357, My 686,does better with heavier 180 grain s.m.jf.p.bullets ( semi- jacketed flat point and 158 grain f.m.j truncated pointed bullets, that will Pentwater 1/ 4 mild steel @ 25 ft.
On your presentation cover, to the right of the magazine is the SIG 357 MAG bullet, one of two or SIG or MAG, the first is from SIGARMS with 9x22mm and the second is from SMITH & WESSON with 9x33mm, apart from power, speed and grains ., for what reason? They have different benefits.😒
Obviously FMJ bullets for the 9mm, but no mention of the others.... probably jacketed soft nose, but I don't know. The .38 Spl might have gone through the wood if it had FMJ bullets.
@Banana Ballistics have a comparison with these calibers shooting them from a carbine (16" barrel) format. The power factor for each increase quite a bit with the extra barrel length.
Great video. Like others who have already commented. You now 'need' carbines for all the pistol calibers you test. :) 380acp, 38sp, 9mm, 357mag, etc. They will gain velocity and energy in 16-20" barrels. The Sandbox might lose to those rounds fired from a carbine
I knew the .357 would be the best but I was really surprised by the 9mm. I expected the 9mm to be better than the .38 but it still performed better than I expected.
Hey brother have you tested the 38 Super? I know little to nothing about that cartridge so I was wondering where it'd fall into the results of these three. Thank You!!
Great video. You definitely gave the ol' 38 special every advantage possible using a 6 inch barrel! Puts things in perspective for sure, for those that still carry a .38 revolver with a 1 7/8" barrel. And 5 shots.
I've been curious about the 960 Rowland (a hot-rod 9mm that you can turn any 9x19 into with a barrel, recoil spring, and comp kit) and whether it's notably better than 9x19. I've also always been interested in the 9x25 Dillon too.
I played with 440 Cor-Bon in a 1911. Same concept. Heavier spring, comped barrel. Broke the slide stop after 12 rounds. Didn't feed reliably. Niche hot rod rounds are not worth it.
A .44 SPL VS 45 ACP comparison would be interesting and settle several points. 200 & 240 gr .44 GDHPs versus 200 & 230 gr .45 GDHPs would keep it pretty level. So would 246 gr LRN versus 230gr JRN. Side note: MP moulds make some great SWCHP moulds in both calibers. I've tested their 44-185 & 250 gr SWCHP in 44 SPL and "light magnum", their 45-215 gr SWCHP & the Lyman 45-190 RFHP "Devastator" (in 45ACP, 45 AutoRim & 45 Colt), and with normal pressure loads, all bullets powder-coated & the identical alloy, the penetration & expansion I'm seeing are as equal as frittatas & omelets. This held in firing the same loads from rifles. Firearms used were 4" S&W & 4-5/8" Ruger revolvers, 5" 1911 & XD45, 16" R92 and 20" B92. "Muh STOPPIN Powah"... In the works: .32-20 vs .38/.357 & .44 Mag vs .45 Colt +P & .30 Carbine vs .32-20 +P (rifle) vs .300 BO.
9mm are always impressive for its size. Especially +p+ stuff out of something like a G34 length barrel. 124 gr. +P+ at 1250 fps is about 435 ft lbs. 1450 fps is 580 ft lbs, at 19 rds thats some decent fire power.
There was recently a news article about an 85 year old lady in Idaho that defended herself from an attacker/robber. She shot the 40 year old guy with a 357 twice. He emptied his 9mm hitting her 5 times, once in the chest, once in the stomach, the rest were leg and arm hits. She laid on the floor for hours (10 by one account) before her son helped her call 911 (he is significantly disabled). The bad guy made it as far as the kitchen and assumed room temperature. Two takeaways. 1. Granny is a touch bird 2. The 357 outclassed the 9 significantly
I wouldnt say significantly based on this test and many others I ve seen a 9 with modern defensive ammo handles its own just fine in most cases, facts are that any pistol is weak compared to a rifle or shotgun, the energy from a 357 is at best double that of the 9 while a 5.56 is quadruple. In the story you mention the guy just took two rounds to the chest from a 357, I m going to guess he probably didnt get off the most accurate shots on the lady, frankly amazing he hit her at all, I m also guessing he was only using ball ammo doubtful she would have survived if he had anything else. All that said she sounded like a remarkably tough old gal and I was glad to hear she made it
@@ST19859 I agree, I think the type of ammo used played a significant role here, as well as shot placement. I'm just surprised a 85 year old lady could survive that.
The 357mag and 38 special are great wheel gun rounds but even better lever gun rounds. Comparing wheels to semi's always brings out both sides. i like all 3 rounds myself. The number one major drawback to 357/38 rounds is ammunition cost and availability. During the last ammo shortfalls, you could find 9mm but 357/38, nope.
I shot the cross bar on my target stand with a 38 at a 100 yards. It was made out of 1" EMT. Soft thin steel. It barely punched thru the front of the tube and was captured barely denting the back of the tube. 38 hits like big 22lr.
My favorite daily carry round was the 38+P Hydroshock in the S&W 4 inch #66 357 Magnum. Full power 357 had too much recoil for controllable follow-up shots.
I appreciate your solid testing and comparison videos. Please don’t ever devolve into shooting wooden bullets into gummy bears, testing homemade flex tape earmuffs, or exploding 55 gallon drums of split pea soup with a pirate deck canon.
No time to grind? Well after taking that fragment to the groin, I do not blame you. Another commenter mentioned Plexiglass and I concur. 1/4" on top of your mesh guard will do wonders for fragments.
Having all three calibers I enjoyed this video very much. Not dynamic like rifle vids, but telling of a couple factors. 9 mm is weak , but has high capacity so it’s favored. 38 special is feeble unless pushed to +P velocity. This brings in 357 mag. It is a horse to be shot and it’s a dramatic killer. Leads FBI study as top “ one shot stop” . This comes at a price of muzzle blast, and over penetration. But if you want it dead. It’s the 357 mag 😎
I wonder why ammunition companies hire and pay teams of engineers and ballisticians working on terminal ballistics when RUclips Rando Experts will tell them what's best for free? Also wonder why those dummies like the Secret Service are so dumb about ammunition performance that they aren't carrying .357 Magnums like experts like this advise?
Not True. Yes 357 Is A Very Powerful Round, But There Are A Lot Of 9mm Rounds Avaible That Puts 9mm Up There Close To 357 But 9mm Has More Of Them In The Gun. These Are Reasons FBI Chose To Go Bake To 9mm. But All BS A Side You Want The Real Winner Get A 10mm. It Can Be Bought In A Size That You Can Carry Every Day But Packs Way More Punch Than 357mag
Well now this was a very interesting video and a very interesting caliber comparison. I think the comparison went about the way I thought it would. I would have like personally to see the 30 super carry compared to the 9 mm and I'm not really even a fan of a 30 super Carry but it would still be a interesting comparison.
Respectfully, using the same block skews your results. You are tenderizing that block with every new round. Still fun
With the new critical defense ammo you dony have to have a 45, 357 to feel safe. The new 9mm, 38 and 380 CD ammo is OUTSTANDING. My Riget security 380 packed with 15 +1 95 grains hp,s is one bad mamma jamma. .
That's what I said! He should've used three Identical cubes! Not keep shooting the same cube, hell even I know that!🤠👍
Tenderizing the block! Lol
You could object about more things here... Different barrel lengths. Too few attempts to conclude anything statistically relevant. But that's not the point of course---just as you say, it's just for fun (and he's actually doing a good job at entertaining :-)).
Exactly! you dont get a clean result.
.357 sig would be good to see. I was impressed on that AP 9mm
Yeah, curious to see 357SIG performance vs 357MAG, 4" barrels, same ammo manufacturers.
Another fun, but maybe slightly more obscure option, is the 9x25 Dillon. A 10mm case necked down to 9 that spits out 125 grains at over 1600 fps from a 5-inch tube. Or 90 grain Lehigh screwdriver tips at 1800...
@@ksaechao97using the ruger as usual
The 357 Magnum still beats 357 Sig, mainly due to the ability to have heavier bullets.
Damn, that was a really slow 125 grain 357 Magnum load. You can get those up to 1700 FPS from a 6 inch barrel.
That was 142gr
@@Alen725 Oh, must've missed it, where does it say?
@@vlogfriendsutopia Close to the end of the video there is a table with data. Its still a weak round sadly, just not that light.
Loving that P09 super underrated ❤
Good to know abou the .c57. Think I'll keep my 1956 Colt Trooper .357.
Just picked up a 1968 trooper in .357. Beautiful gun.
Good Day. Excellent. Most enjoyable.
Thank You & Best Regards.
Would love to see a test of imi 77 grain razor core vs 77 grain black hills 5.56
Most any round/caliber is gonna give a hellava headache. Some, just a bit messier than others. 💪🇺🇸
It would have been cool to see 357 sig and 380
Can you fire a pressure treated cube at a pressure treated cube to see how well a cube can penetrate a cube?
as far as the sand testing. I still feel you should be using the USPS flat rate boxes, either the small or the medium, thin ones. you could stack them so that we could know if it made it through 2 inches or 4 inches or 6 inches of sand.
Great idea..n use water jugs.
@henriyoung3895 sand has unique characteristics about it that differ from water.
water and gelatin are so similar as to be an easy stand in.
I agree. They don’t penetrate, maybe try a 50 BMG
You should try the 38 super.
The sand test generally is a waste of time.
Conclusion: Never go up against a 6x6 block of wood if all you're packing is a 9 or 38 special
Good to know. I’ve been attacked by 6x6 blocks of wood twice this month already.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Wait, I thought it was, "Never go up against a Sicilian when death is on the line!?"
Bruce Lee said boards don't fight back :)
@@greencertifiedweb never go up against a Sicilian who has a 357 when you're a 6x6 block of wood
357 v 357. pistol vs rifle. 357 is supposed to be a lot more potent out of a rifle. would love to see that in testing
I have a 4" revolver and a 20" rifle. In a rifle, it's no 308, but it will drop med sized game like deer out to 75yd 100yd. Great brush gun. Dropped a 200lb boar on the spot at about 80yd with the 20" lever rifle with pmc soft point 158gr.
.357 has double the case capacity, greater COAL( hence the ability to utilize longer-heavier bullets)and operates at +10,000 psi over 9mm
9mm is pretty much limited to 147-150ish grain max bullets and relatively fast burning powders to maximize it's small case volume and shorter overall length. The .357's larger case capacity allows it to utilize slower burn rate powders in longer barrels for increased energy gain vs. the 9mm.
You'll get increased velocity/ energy from both with increasing barrel length to a point
9mm is gonna max out in a shorter burn column with lower total energy regardless in a cartridge appropriate max loading, all other variables being equal.
In short, anything much past 8-10 inches gains you little to none in 9mm
.357 Carbine ballistics are more comparable to a 30/30 than any service sidearm
Apologies for the long winded reply
@jmjones7897 in a handgun, 9mm is better than 357. 357 has longer burning powder normally, which means it needs the longer barrel.
that's also why in a carbine, 9mm stops accelerating at 8-10". 357 continues to accelerate though
The advantage seems to be brand dependent
Got a Henry lever gun in 357 mag and have some factory from Fiocchi and Federal the Fiocchi gains barely any out the rifle (from box specs) whereas the Federal gains over 20%, the sound difference was dramatic
@@theprfesssor +p makes a big difference
I have a lever action in 357 mag. It will shoot 38 special like most of them will. I think it holds a couple more 38 specials in the mag. If I shoot 100 or 200 rounds of 357, my shoulder gets pretty sore (what can I say, I'm old and fragile😊). I can shoot the 38 specials all day like shooting a 22. I'd be very curios to see a comparison of velocities and power shooting those rounds through a 20 inch barrel vs a 4 or 6 inch pistol barrel. I really enjoy your videos, keep up the good work!
I've got a Taurus with a two inch barrel. Love putting the 38's through it but I'm like you. Old and breakable and the magnum rounds freaking hurt. Lol.
Midway should send him some Buffalo Bore.
Buffalo Bore 125gr from a 2-inch snub: 1479 fps.
Buffalo Bore 125gr from a 18.5-inch Marlin: 2300 fps.
@@exothermal.sprocketDam! 😮
@@exothermal.sprocket those are the penetrators, right?
I've been thinking about getting the hardcast for brown bear protection. (I know, probably would never need it, but who knows)
Then I saw that Penetrator round, and figured that would probably do rhe trick as well. Lol
@@letsdothis9063 The ones I mentioned are Hornady XTP loaded hot by Buffalo Bore. The Xtreme Penetrators are a Lehigh Defense bullet are loaded by Underwood, they primarily tumble and that's how they do their damage. For bear I'd go with a very large flat nose hard cast. In .357mag probably 180gr. Buffalo Bore, Grizzly, DoubleTap all have stout hardcast loads. Underwood runs less velocity in rimmed cartridges for some reason. Solid copper are effective no doubt, but I prefer Barnes expanding type for that, as heavy as you can get them (Buffalo Bore Barnes 140gr XPB). Maybe a bonded-type would also work in 158gr or heavier, so long as it's loaded to true magnum power, not warm commercial stuff.
One thing I do have to say regarding the 9mm is, it may not be the biggest or fastest round out there, but it was designed right. For a small cartridge, it can be pretty potent.
So your saying you own a 9 lol!😂
Especially considering the barrel length differences. 38 would be blown put of the water by 9 with similar barrel length using relatively strength ammo. Be that standard target in both calibers or +p
Ammunition advances over the past 10 years have really brought the 9mm's potency up. Little difference between it and the 40S&W with less recoil and the ability to carry handguns with higher magazine capacity.
Yes, I do have a 9mm. Can it compete with the .357 for muzzle energy…no. BUT, thanks to modern ammunition, it is just as effective at stopping a threat. It’s come a long way over the past 120 years.
Now, if someone is using FMJ’s for self defence, I would use something bigger than the 9mm.
@@DarrenFinleyhaha exactly
I am old, nearly 3/4 of a century. Back in the day, there was no gel. The makers used 7/8 inch soft pine boards spaced one inch apart for ammo testing. The 357 Magnum was king with this test, even over the 44 Magnum. So, that was all we had to go by. This info was published and well known. The 9mm showed good performance in the wood, also.
I started handloading in 1972. Norma sold 44 cal steel jacketed bullets in soft point and hollow point 240 gr. They were called the Tri-Clad. Steel jacket, nickel plated and then clear lacquer coated. Very accurate with my WW296 full loads. They were also the king of my crude wood penetration tests. I used a foot long green pine 6 inch about diameter log., standing up. The 357 would not penetrate through. The 44 Mag went through the log like it was made of of Swiss cheeze. Elmer Keith admitted it penetrated as well as his 44 cal 250 grain SWC. I also shot it through various metal stuff which you should not try at home.
This is a great video! I would like to see more of this type. I have never been attacked by a board or concrete block, but it makes for a fun video.
Thanks Rob nuts, this is a great comment.
I remember reading penetration testing in my 55 vintage Gun Digest, which I studied as if it were the bible. The prices of guns, especially the .45 Colt, would make these youngsters cry.
Stupid question here - shouldn't this test use individual cubes for each bullett fired?
It seems to me that the fist 2 shots weakened the structural integrity of the wood which made
the 9mm look like it did more damage than it did. I don't know & that's why I am asking.
If he aimed better and spread out the POI that might help. It looks like he's trying to get a tight shot group with all three.
@@terry_willis I see what your saying and that makes sense in so far as what he was trying to do, but I still can't reconcile the logic of using the same piece of wood for all 3 rounds *when* each round is a different caliber. I'm C student that never fiished Jr College and yet I keep thinking that the structural integrity of the wood has to have been compromised and that has to play a role in the test in some way. But like I said I'm a C student with no qualifications
The wood should be fine (not sure, just an assumption), but the sand needs to filtered after each shot to remove old bullets. The sand test is by far the worst set up. It could be much more interesting though, if set up properly.
It's been said that the A students become the professors, the B students become the judges and the C students become rich. @@kettle_of_chris
There’s really no perfect option for the wood block. Same block = compromised structural integrity. Different blocks= different densities regardless of how much effort you go through. So it a classic catch .22
I love your videos! My only critique would be that each caliber should have its own wood block. It would seem that, especially with high caliber rounds, every additional shot would weaken the wood!
Everyone is going to love my 6" thick sand-filled bullet-proof vest. I'm still developing the helmet.
As effective as a solar powered dark room.
Would like to see how 38 + P Compares to them! lol Great Video!
I think it would be like a 9mm I mean velocity and all that, maybe even faster than regular 9mm with the same bullet... I am not sure.
It's close with a slight advantage to the .38+P with relative advantage of .38 increasing with barrel length.
The .38+P is more of an industry standard than a hard CIP/ SAAMI type engineering standard
What it works out to un practical terms is this
4" barrel 38+p 158gr @ 1150fps and 21,500psi
4.7" barrel 9mm Standard pressure
147gr @ 950-1000fps and 33,000psi
9mm+p 147gr hardcast
@ 1050-1100fps
Velocities out of shorter barrels are comparable w/ the 9mm+p maxing out for practical purposes at the standard 4-5" barrel length
.38+p will continue gain advantage in longer barrels
At same 21,500 psi you're talking 158gr @12,500 in a 6" revolver with gains dropping off past about 10-12" w/ max velocities in the 16-20" barrel
9mm gains dropping off @ about 7-8" and maxing out around 10-12" of barrel length. You can get a little more out of a longer barrel in 9mm with lighter bullets and larger chargers of marginally slower burn rate powder. Really just doesn't have the case capacity to take advantage of slower powders in longer barrels vs. peak pressure
In a stronger gun that same .38 can be loaded far closer to .357 levels particularly with heavier bullets
In your next video can you just say this for me..."baby lock the door and turn the lights down low." No particular reason 😂
Not only will the 9mm blow the lungs out the back, it’ll blow the concrete out the back too.
😂
I thought it was a 5.56 that would blow the lungs out. Either way got to love JB.
You're right. I heard someone say that, therefore it must be true. LOL
Joe knows 🤣🤣
Ok nappy nap time joe😂
I'd like to see proper full pressure 10mm vs .357 mag. as they feel similar to shoot.
Proper .357 as well…that stuff was weak sauce.
But to be clear…proper 10mm is no match for .357mag properly loaded. .357 has a multiple hundreds ft per second for similar bullet grain.
@@kyleg8928 buffalo bore hard cast for both is what id use
357 wins. I believe when .357 was introduced it was 180gr at 1400fps out of a 6in barrel. It was used on lions in Africa and walrus up north. They nerfed it when police started carrying it.
10mm is as close as an auto pistol can get to 357 mag (not counting 44 automags or Wildeys or big huge gas powered guns like Desert Eagles... I'm talking normal sized carryable auto pistols) But a 357 loaded to it's full potential still beats the 10mm. 10mm is certainly no slouch though and can match regularly loaded 357
There are so many variables with ammo for these guns that I dont see the point in testing unless the bullet weights are all the same and they are standard non +P factory loads all from the same company. Otherwise whats the point, there so much room for variables its nothing more than just a fun time at the range.
That’s some really under powered 357 ammo you are using
Bullets matter far more than headstamps when it comes to penetration.
Welcome to modern 357 Magnum
yeah that out of a 6" 😂 must have been using Fiocci 🤣
Yeah, modern commercial 357 ammo is way underpowered compared to it's predecessors years ago.
@@jasonshults368 No, simply no.
You blinded Terry with that muzzle flash 📸
What about .357 sig vs 9mm vs .357 mag? Awesome channel, great content! Thank you for the entertaining vids, keep up the good work.
You definitely get some target practice, I like the 357 is also a flame thrower
I do too. I carry a snub because of that. It has more than enough power to do the job, but moreover the sound and the literal ring of fire that comes out is enough for most people to nope out. It's kinda like hearing a shotgun rack, but not as innocent
Are you familiar with the Coonan .357 mag? You should see my Coonan shoot .357 mag.
@@cuzz63 I have a friend who just traded a ruger 5.7 for a 357 deagle in a straight trade, somehow. I imagine it's kinda like. It's not quite as easily concealed and we are going to hit the range tomorrow and I'll get to see the fireball from it. But no, I've never seen a coonan, it looks nice in a quick Google, 1911 style seems magic, it reminds me of the 44 from _magnum force_
love the tests mate, keep up the good work. support from the uk
357 guys: He didnt use the 1700fps nuclear loads to overcompensate more!
9mm: Shot placement and 5 extra magazines help me cope.
.38spc: forever alone 🤓
I'm ready to see 460 vs 500 magnum. Gotta include the 700 grain hardcast
comparing a 357 vs a 9 and 38spc is like letting a normal athleete compete in paraolympics 😂
I dunno, the 9mm did pretty damn good against the 347, especially when you remember it was out of a shorter barrel. Granted, there is a lot hotter .357 on the market but that is pretty hot for 9mm
Like Mike Tyson fighting Jake Paul
That's funny. But, I don't think we watched the same video. heh
That’s if you get caught up in caliber. Shot placement is most important. Getting hit in the lung with a 357, you have a hole in your lung. Getting hit in the heart with a 9, pick out your head stone.
@@Timuroslav wrote it after the cement block….. despite kinda short barrel its obvious that 357 packs a punch
factory ammo-wise, the order is 38 spl, 9mm, 357, lowest to highest. But from a reloader's perspective, it is 9mm, 38, 357, with the 38 even having an advantage over the 357 in guns with short cylinders and shooting longer bullets. 357 and 38 are much bigger cartridges than the 9mm with much greater powder capacity and energy potential.
My aunt had a blued 38 special snub nose revolver with a ivory grip when I was a kid. It was her purse gun my uncle bought her for anniversary.. Mom liked the gun but not the color so my aunt bought mom a chromed out one with the ivory handles for her bday. Don't dismiss a 38 it's a pretty good caliber and small enough for for a lady to carry and shoot.
It's all about hitting what you aim at.
Might as well of added .380 to this group test as well. Would of been fun to see the results. Great video. Much love from Oregon.
If she ain't 380 she aint....well you know the rest
COME ON MAN ! How’s life in that commie 💩💩💩 🕳️ ? Are you allowed to have weapons ? You are on the Worse Coast.
And no. .380 is about as boring as you can get. The ballistics are poop. Finding a round to feed consistently could be interesting.
It would have to be +p to be interesting. The variability of standard loads is maddening for standard 380
@@adquintawhat are you even talking about?
I had no idea Ray Romano was into guns but this is very cool 👍
He's a cross between Ray Romano, and Sheldon Cooper, He's Sheldon Romano!
Just liked and subscribed. Very interesting and unique testing. Would like to see a test with .357 180gr hard cast. Maybe put some plywood on lower half of you protective shield. 😝
9mm is a baby boy compared to the daddy 357
357 is still a baby.
460xvr putting out 2,250 ft/lb
9mm 350 ft/lb
357. 500 ft /lb
waste of money and pointless for self defense.@@oscarbear7498
🇺🇸
Basic training, many decades ago, taught that 18 ins. of soil will stop any small arms. That is why we stacked sand bags three high and three deep around fox holes.
Not too many wars are fought with 9mm and 357 mag
JUST THIN HOW FAR THE BULLET GOES AFTER A PERSON GET HIT AND HOW MANY OTHERS ARE GOING TO GET HIT AFTER THE BAD PERSONS ; BECAUSE NO WALLS ARE THAT THICK !...
You do a pretty good job of making a level playing field for testing of all things. I put your testing in the camp of the legendary Paul Harrell. And while I like his meat target in place of basic gel testing, the hard barriers is useful and fun. Have you figured out why the Army and Marines fill sand bags yet? ;)
This channel settles it. I am building my post apocalyptic Palace out of sand. Prolly wouldn't use your "shield" technology though 🤣
Problems with methodology....
I have a few problems with your methodology. You tested both revolver and semi-automatic. Even though the semi-automatic had a shorter barrel, the barrels of the revolvers were vented....that is they were revolvers.
You should have tested all semi-automatic or all revolver. They make 357 magnums and 38 specials in semi-automatic and revolver, they also make 9 mm in semi-automatics and revolver....
Other than that, it was a good video and I enjoyed it. I'm glad your voice didn't permanently raise a few octaves there, if you catch my drift. I also think that your screen will be plate next time we see it!!
I'll just stick with my S&W 686 - .357MAGNUM! although, I do own a S& W Shield 9.mm. I think you might get better results with better ammo for the .357, My 686,does better with heavier 180 grain s.m.jf.p.bullets ( semi- jacketed flat point and 158 grain f.m.j truncated pointed bullets, that will Pentwater 1/ 4 mild steel @ 25 ft.
On your presentation cover, to the right of the magazine is the SIG 357 MAG bullet, one of two or SIG or MAG, the first is from SIGARMS with 9x22mm and the second is from SMITH & WESSON with 9x33mm, apart from power, speed and grains ., for what reason? They have different benefits.😒
Has anything ever made it through the sand or have I missed a video?
I think the 300 blackout beat the box of sand maybe 5 videos ago...
@@surfstarcc1
Thanks I'll have to go back and watch it.
Obviously FMJ bullets for the 9mm, but no mention of the others.... probably jacketed soft nose, but I don't know. The .38 Spl might have gone through the wood if it had FMJ bullets.
@Banana Ballistics have a comparison with these calibers shooting them from a carbine (16" barrel) format. The power factor for each increase quite a bit with the extra barrel length.
Suggestion for further testing:
IMI "Uzi Food" 9x19 (+p++ "SMG only") vs .357 mag and .357 Sig?
357mag will ALWAYS BEAT 9MM. All the time Everytime
reload the 357 shells with 30.06 gun powder packed.
Great video. Like others who have already commented. You now 'need' carbines for all the pistol calibers you test. :) 380acp, 38sp, 9mm, 357mag, etc. They will gain velocity and energy in 16-20" barrels. The Sandbox might lose to those rounds fired from a carbine
Start with the more powerful rounds. Seems the targets are already weakened by the weaker rounds.
I see lots of reviews where .38 Special, 9mm, .22 lr and .32 ACP "fails" a gel test. All I know is I'd hate to get shot with any of them.
That's it, that's all you know?
That was some pretty weak .357 ammo...... nowhere near full power..
I knew the .357 would be the best but I was really surprised by the 9mm. I expected the 9mm to be better than the .38 but it still performed better than I expected.
With .38 special everything depends on the load and barrel length. The FBI load out of a 4in barrel is pretty much peak .38spc
That 357 was a weak load
Hey brother have you tested the 38 Super? I know little to nothing about that cartridge so I was wondering where it'd fall into the results of these three. Thank You!!
That's some weak .357 at only 1200 fps.
Great video. You definitely gave the ol' 38 special every advantage possible using a 6 inch barrel! Puts things in perspective for sure, for those that still carry a .38 revolver with a 1 7/8" barrel. And 5 shots.
He doesn't say what the loadings are. For all we know the .38 rounds were something weak like 130 grn, 800 fps rounds.
.38 stubbies are for 2” away shooting.
It would be interesting to see .38 and .357 out of a revolver vs. out of a rifle.
9mm Pistol vs. Carbine, too.
I think 38 special did not expand thats why it got trough the gel too slow
I'm a big fan of all three calibers and all three are very capable cartridges.
Couldn't agree with you more. All 3 will cause major damage - the 9 and the .357 will leave the corpse more marred up than the .38 corpse!
what kind of week 38's are you using?
Try running the test with .500 smith and wesson magnum using the 700 grain hard cast.
"three fiddty seven slug" -90's rappers
I've been curious about the 960 Rowland (a hot-rod 9mm that you can turn any 9x19 into with a barrel, recoil spring, and comp kit) and whether it's notably better than 9x19. I've also always been interested in the 9x25 Dillon too.
I played with 440 Cor-Bon in a 1911. Same concept. Heavier spring, comped barrel. Broke the slide stop after 12 rounds. Didn't feed reliably. Niche hot rod rounds are not worth it.
@@mattmarzula Interesting. A friend of mine has a .460 Rowland (made by Bar Sto) and it's held up quite well. Edit: that's in a Glock though.
I would love to hear you read " how the Grinch stole Christmas". Great video !
A .44 SPL VS 45 ACP comparison would be interesting and settle several points.
200 & 240 gr .44 GDHPs versus 200 & 230 gr .45 GDHPs would keep it pretty level.
So would 246 gr LRN versus 230gr JRN.
Side note: MP moulds make some great SWCHP moulds in both calibers. I've tested their 44-185 & 250 gr SWCHP in 44 SPL and "light magnum", their 45-215 gr SWCHP & the Lyman 45-190 RFHP "Devastator" (in 45ACP, 45 AutoRim & 45 Colt), and with normal pressure loads, all bullets powder-coated & the identical alloy, the penetration & expansion I'm seeing are as equal as frittatas & omelets. This held in firing the same loads from rifles.
Firearms used were 4" S&W & 4-5/8" Ruger revolvers, 5" 1911 & XD45, 16" R92 and 20" B92.
"Muh STOPPIN Powah"...
In the works: .32-20 vs .38/.357 & .44 Mag vs .45 Colt +P & .30 Carbine vs .32-20 +P (rifle) vs .300 BO.
Nex Up... .357 VS .327....
And the winner is....
Gotta say I'm always surprised that 38 spc preforms so poorly even compared to 9
Yeah
Maybe use gallon jugs of water for pistol rounds instead of steel. The bullets are recoverable.
.357 sig vs 357 mag would be better
10mm vs .44mag would be interesting
Add in 357 sig?
That’s ballistic gel not human tissue
I would like to see how a .38 Super auto round would compare with these other three rounds.
357 magnum round is the hot one.
neat fact archery will go through a sand bags
PizzA
That's a really sweet setup you have there, I would love to have something like that. But living in the city it's not likely. I enjoy your vids.
9mm are always impressive for its size. Especially +p+ stuff out of something like a G34 length barrel. 124 gr. +P+ at 1250 fps is about 435 ft lbs. 1450 fps is 580 ft lbs, at 19 rds thats some decent fire power.
There was recently a news article about an 85 year old lady in Idaho that defended herself from an attacker/robber. She shot the 40 year old guy with a 357 twice. He emptied his 9mm hitting her 5 times, once in the chest, once in the stomach, the rest were leg and arm hits. She laid on the floor for hours (10 by one account) before her son helped her call 911 (he is significantly disabled). The bad guy made it as far as the kitchen and assumed room temperature.
Two takeaways.
1. Granny is a touch bird
2. The 357 outclassed the 9 significantly
I wouldnt say significantly based on this test and many others I ve seen a 9 with modern defensive ammo handles its own just fine in most cases, facts are that any pistol is weak compared to a rifle or shotgun, the energy from a 357 is at best double that of the 9 while a 5.56 is quadruple. In the story you mention the guy just took two rounds to the chest from a 357, I m going to guess he probably didnt get off the most accurate shots on the lady, frankly amazing he hit her at all, I m also guessing he was only using ball ammo doubtful she would have survived if he had anything else. All that said she sounded like a remarkably tough old gal and I was glad to hear she made it
@@ST19859 I agree, I think the type of ammo used played a significant role here, as well as shot placement. I'm just surprised a 85 year old lady could survive that.
I would love to see a comparison in 9 mm and 357 cal handguns then a second test from a 9mm carbine and a 357 lever action firearms.
The 357 is a beast
Good test! Smith & Wesson N-frame revolvers hold 8 rounds.
Great for 8th graders…try harder …
Now let's see 45 long colt 44 magnum 500 s&w
Am I first?!
The 357mag and 38 special are great wheel gun rounds but even better lever gun rounds. Comparing wheels to semi's always brings out both sides. i like all 3 rounds myself. The number one major drawback to 357/38 rounds is ammunition cost and availability. During the last ammo shortfalls, you could find 9mm but 357/38, nope.
.357 💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽
I shot the cross bar on my target stand with a 38 at a 100 yards. It was made out of 1" EMT. Soft thin steel. It barely punched thru the front of the tube and was captured barely denting the back of the tube. 38 hits like big 22lr.
My favorite daily carry round was the 38+P Hydroshock in the S&W 4 inch #66 357 Magnum. Full power 357 had too much recoil for controllable follow-up shots.
Those .357 mag bullets seem VERY WEAK.
Mine go 1300 ++ fps.
When you shoot the gel, get on your knees. Shoot level, not down wards
I appreciate your solid testing and comparison videos. Please don’t ever devolve into shooting wooden bullets into gummy bears, testing homemade flex tape earmuffs, or exploding 55 gallon drums of split pea soup with a pirate deck canon.
😂
Hey now! I, for one, am happy to see these very important tests being conducted. For science, of course.
There’s a place for cannonade on split pea soup action, but we need this real stuff too
No time to grind? Well after taking that fragment to the groin, I do not blame you. Another commenter mentioned Plexiglass and I concur. 1/4" on top of your mesh guard will do wonders for fragments.
Having all three calibers I enjoyed this video very much. Not dynamic like rifle vids, but telling of a couple factors. 9 mm is weak , but has high capacity so it’s favored. 38 special is feeble unless pushed to +P velocity. This brings in 357 mag. It is a horse to be shot and it’s a dramatic killer. Leads FBI study as top “ one shot stop” . This comes at a price of muzzle blast, and over penetration. But if you want it dead. It’s the 357 mag 😎
Thank-you for that information. I know a few people that need gone.
I wonder why ammunition companies hire and pay teams of engineers and ballisticians working on terminal ballistics when RUclips Rando Experts will tell them what's best for free?
Also wonder why those dummies like the Secret Service are so dumb about ammunition performance that they aren't carrying .357 Magnums like experts like this advise?
Not True. Yes 357 Is A Very Powerful Round, But There Are A Lot Of 9mm Rounds Avaible That Puts 9mm Up There Close To 357 But 9mm Has More Of Them In The Gun. These Are Reasons FBI Chose To Go Bake To 9mm. But All BS A Side You Want The Real Winner Get A 10mm. It Can Be Bought In A Size That You Can Carry Every Day But Packs Way More Punch Than 357mag
45-70 vs 444 marlin vs 450 bushmaster would a cool video!
Close only counts with Horse Shoes and Hand Grenades !
New blocks each time
Nice 9mm pistol you have there.
Well now this was a very interesting video and a very interesting caliber comparison. I think the comparison went about the way I thought it would. I would have like personally to see the 30 super carry compared to the 9 mm and I'm not really even a fan of a 30 super Carry but it would still be a interesting comparison.