My Historically Accurate Viking Dress Project - How Accurate? Scouring the Wool
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- I have wanted to start this project for years but I was holding myself back because I set an impossible standard of historical accuracy. I want to address the concept of "historical accuracy" so I can reframe it in a way that is helpful for moving my project forward, and then I'm going to actually get started by scouring this Icelandic fleece from a sheep named, "Kol."
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Video Sources
Valkyrie's Loom: The Archaeology of Cloth Production and Female Power in the North Atlantic by Michèle Hayeur Smith- www.amazon.com...
Washing Fleece www.spinningfor...
Viking Women: Aprondress By Hilde Thunem urd.priv.no/vi...
North European short-tailed breeds of sheep: a review pubmed.ncbi.nl...
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Here's the thing, my fellow perfectionist, we tend to forget that our modern times and equipment have eliminated the need for lots of people to be involved in the making of clothing (well, anything really). It takes/took a village. No single person did all the steps alone like we do nowadays. So, don't sweat the small stuff in your time travel quest. I can't wait to see your process. It's gonna be spectacular! (Kol's fleece is gorgeous BTW)
I was thinking the same! Well said!
This! we don't even have some of the systems that would have existed in the time in question! Some times 'historically accurate' is what gets the job done, I imagine any village woman at the time would have jumped at the option to do parts faster or less labor intensively, the tools and tech used where not used from a place of a perfection judgment but the limiting factor of the age in question
This! our community spends so much time complaining about historical accuracy when truth is, we don't have access to 100% historically accurate cloth. We can do what we can, sure. Personally I won't sweat on interior seams being sewing machine stitched. The outer layer hand stitched is what I'd personally judge by. If a garment is polysatin but isnt like, obviously so, then why should it matter?
Wow well put and makes me feel better. I'm doing a project of Ancient Middle Eastern/Israelite textiles and I've been so upset about my inability to find goat hair from the right breed of goat common in the region at the time. Like, even saying this, it still feels like it needs to be that. But this is a good reminder
This is so true. Those cheap woven baskets from Vietnam? My sister in law produce some of them. For the napkin holders she gets the equivalent of US25 cents profit. Please don't boycott. Let me tell you the journey in my husband's village. A cousin is married to River dredger. He pulls reeds from the river for his mother in law. She dries them on her land and sells them in bundles. Another relative and his son weld the metal frames. My sister in law buys the frames and reeds. She can weave really well. And her husband helps once she starts it off. The woman down the road who I believe is another relative makes the glue/sealant for the baskets, which my sister in law also buys. My nephew paints the baskets after school and homework is finished. My sister in law then sells the baskets to a man and his son who ride around the farms once per week. You should see how.many they can fit! And then they sell it to a man who has a storage area that he onsells to a larger organisation with a truck. And so on and so forth till it fills shipping containers and comes to us. So many kids get educations and even trades because of this cottage industry.
I like to think that is how spinning and weaving and assembling happened. Everybody contributing their unique skills. Looking forward to seeing more of the project.
If a Viking woman had access to a sewing machine and spinning wheel, she totally would have used them so I say use whatever tools you are most confident with and will enjoy using the most.
Wool from black sheep should really make a comeback (and wool/natural fabrics in general). It's still amazing wool and has so much natural variation in the colour from deep, rich blacks to glossy reddy brown and smokey greys that look beautiful in cloth.
Absolutely!
Agree! I love natural black wool!
Yasssssss.
Just bought a hand full (about 160 gramm) of dark wool from a local to the area sheep where my Rehab takes place. I had a 11 km single trip bikeride through, a beautiful landscape and was able to look at the whole gerd still in winter quarters. They had a newborn just a few hours old, so we did not go close.
I raise angora goats (mohair). From what I’ve seen in the agriculture world the more colorful animals seem to be more in demand. Currently I have red, white, and black angora goats and haven’t dyed any of their hair.❤
I find experimental archeology so fascinating. I appreciate both this amazing project you are doing and your thoughts on historical accuracy. This is why I love RUclips.
To be historically accurate, you'd also have to make it by the light of homemade rush lights, with bone needles, in a room heated only by fire...:) I think you've found a great balance! I loved this discussion and look forward to watching as things develop. Good luck and have fun! (And "spinning in the grease" sounds like a t-shirt slogan I need.)
Not forgetting to sacrifice a goat in your garden to appease the gods of woolly things.
I am sooooo excited for this!
On a side note, I often tell people in my group that we have to pick which anachronisms you can live with. I’m not a weaver (yet), so I look for commercially available fabric that hopefully mimics what would have been available. I use modern needles for sewing. I alternate between natural and commercial dyes, depending on my goal for the finished product/project. I think as long as you’re cognizant of the realities of your costuming and eschew obviously out of period choices, you’re good. If I had to be 100% accurate, I’d wind up naked. In a tent. That’s probably made out of machine spun and woven fibers, probably not linen anyway. So pick your anachronisms.
As a fellow perfectionist, I also suffer from "analysis paralysis" on projects very often. I had to just learn to accept my limitations and proceed with the best, most informed path forward. I am so excited to follow this project.
I have never clicked on a video so fast, and I'm so glad I did... what a wonderful take on a topic that I think consumes many of us more than we'd like to admit. And the first thing I thought of when you said that you were going to lean into your strengths (spinning) and not worry about the hand-stitching as much, was that.... hey, who knows, maybe THAT'S WHAT THEY DID TOO! Viking era is not something I know much about, but it seems very plausible that, at least in some situations, a similar division of labor (hey, you weave two chunks of fabric, and I'll sew them, and then we'll BOTH have 2 very cute aprons) would have been used! The concept of "not enough time in the day" certainly applied as much then as now!! (wow, you basically just said that same, last thing... serves me right for writing a comment before finishing the video)
..."let's all give up and buy a dress from SHEIN" 🤣🤣😭
I promise to climb out of the spiral before I buy anything from SHEIN! 😂😂😂
I love your videos too shannon!!!!
Love your analogy of the two dresses. Your project looks amazing. Can't wait to see how it turns out.
Keeping in mind, I'm currently in the middle of Lambing Season where I help the little ones being born so I can have enough fibre to spin, weave, and sew into historical clothes... I often worry that "Historical Accuracy" does more harm than good.
Historically accurate excels where we get to learn a new technique, or teach something, or like in your case, a whole bunch of both.
But it also provides some nasty gatekeeping. I see this a lot in the environmental and permaculture side of things. During the first year of growing a garden and they often feel like failures because they didn't grow everything they needed to eat. But that's not 'historically accurate'. There aren't many gardens in this world (old or new) where the soil is right for every single crop. Humans lived (and live) in communities. Someone has great drainage for growing Fava beans and another person has enough ducks to keep away the lettuce-munching slugs so they grow leafy greens. People interact and everyone gets enough to eat. What the new gardeners forget is the simple act of growing carrots is a revolutionary act - much like knitting a pair of socks. Small actions make big differences in the world and it's easy to forget this if we listen to gatekeepers.
Likewise, historically accurate cloth takes a village. By the middle ages we see a lot of separation of tasks so that different people might wash or card or spin or weave... this varied between places and times. So every little bit we do we can learn something, we don't need to be perfectly accurate. It isn't so much about reproducing history, but learning from it. What does it feel like to take a raw fleece and wear it? (extremely good!) What can we learn from working with different wool? How can we combine what we learn from trying these things with what we have available today?
Better bottle-feed my bummer (orphan lamb) before she plans the woolly rebellion. Thanks for sharing your journey with us.
I was very much looking forward to your thoughts on this topic! "It isn't so much about reproducing history, but learning from it." I love that so much. 💜💜💜
@@JillianEve Lately I've been falling in love with "historically adequate". There are a lot of historical clothes I want to try making (and possibly growing) but I also want to adapt them for everyday wear. Historybounding meets fantasy practical projects that I can play with historically accurate techniques.
As you said "Historically Accurate" is a never ending game of chasing your tail. I'm all for learning the basic techniques but for the majority do what makes you happy. Sally Pointer has a great series on making, dressing, and weaving on a warp weighted loom. After watching these videos I would be willing to bet that your Wheel Daddy could make you one.
That and much more. Sally Pointer is an incredible and delightful resource on experimental archeological textiles (and hedge bothering, as she calls it, which is for food forage as well as fabric resources). I think I found her after I found you and have been delighted by both of you ever since :)
I love Sally Pointer!
As an archaeologist, when people tell me “do you even know if this is right?” I always answer, “unless you were there 300 years ago to check, I won’t claim it is *right* “
I don’t know if I’ve ever been so excited for a series of videos on RUclips!! 🤓
One of the things I love about you is you feel, feelings are hard especially when its over a love for what you do. It took me a long time to get over the same emotions when it came to my handmade projects eventually I came to the realization that perfection is for machines. It's the imperfections that make handmade projects special and unique. I look forward to watching your journey in this project :)
Over the years I found do what makes you happy. Please don’t listen to hateful jealous people. I love Viking history excited to watch you make a Viking dress Just remember make it the way you want to. Be happy and proud of what you make. Lol I’m like you I’m not going to pee on my fiber I have few Icelandic fleeces I have not tackled due to dual coat. Love ❤️ Finn to.
Historical accuracy would only happen if you were actually living during that time period. I love your videos and learn a lot from you. So just do what you love.
I always think that our ancestors would be using our modern equipment glad that the job could be done faster. My grandmother had and old sewing machine that was modern for her day, she was fascinated by my more modern machine and believe me when I got my first machine that did the embroidery my granddaughters like on their clothing I blessed whoever came up with it. I'm all for doing things accurately but I'm not willing to take the time some people think is necessary. I'll never be a spinner, but I love watching you do it, I figure I can concentrate on my knitting and support someone else by buying the wool they spin.
Coming from a re-enactment background, here's my thoughts on 'historically accurate'. Nothing that we create in this modern era can be truly 100% historically accurate. That would mean the tools we use would have to be historically accurate too - but what about the tools used to make THEM? And the tools used to make THOSE tools, and all the way down the line? When we, who are not historians or archaeologists are making something for ourselves, for fun or for interest, it's important not to get hung up on any minor inconsistencies. We can't be entirely historically accurate, but we can be as historically accurate as we can be, and there's a big difference. There are some things that were available back then that simply aren't any more, and sometimes we just have to live with modern equivalents in our historical makes. As long as we are aware of those anachronisms and make choices based around what is available to us and within our means, I think that's the best we can do. I'm a calligrapher, and try to make period-accurate scrolls. Technically I should be doing it on calf-skin vellum. But that's totally outside of my budget, and not everyone I make them for wants animal products. So I use a modern, plant based product that acts in the same way as original vellum. I'm fully aware that that reduces the authenticity, but I use what I can within my means.
The early music community has been through the same process. In the search to find how music of Byrd, Bach or Mozart “sounded” , musical instrument makers created instruments based on extant instruments in collections and museums, and performers studied treatises on “how to play” written in the long past. They originally called it “historically accurate” performance , but then realized the infinite rabbit holes making it impossible to know if it is actually accurate. Isn’t that harpsichord from the Netherlands, not England? Hey, those gut strings aren’t the type used in Prussia in that century… and are you sure that is the style of vibrato used in Florence in that 50 year period? But the search for perfection and accuracy goes farther: some music would have been heard only in the context of a long religious service , or the other music would only have been heard in such and such type of room, or during a specific time of year, or sung by high male voice, not females… It goes on and on.
Now we call it “historically informed performance practice” and do our best… and remember we are modern audiences, looking to hear beautiful music that speaks to us in the 21st century.
Anyhow, I’d call your journey a search for a historically informed costume, and you can gain appreciation for how and why it was constructed in a certain way. And appreciate that you don’t have to try to recreate all aspects- which is truly impossible.
I love this take on it!
The question is what is your goal? Sounds to me like you want to produce a Viking age type cloth and turn it into a nice Viking age dress. In which case, using a plastic bucket for scouring or modern metal needles for sewing is not going to really make any difference. You would still get a dress that behaved and felt like the proper thing. If your goal was to spindle spin your own yarn to make your own fabric, then of course you would not want to use a spinning wheel, but be happy for it to take longer. If your goal was to prepare the fleece like they did in the Viking age, then you’d be needing a wooden trough or barrel or whatever and do that process ”historically accurately”. And so on. You pick your interest and do that bit! Really looking forward to following this project!
Lol, the wool neps at the end remind me of a present I was given as a small child, which surely must have been given by someone who either had no experience with children, or who bore a deep, vengeful grudge against my parents: 1000 assorted plastic beads in a big tub.
We were vacuuming those up for years.
One of the most disastrous things to happen to the world was the shift to fast fashion. When a person was fortunate for 1 new article of clothing a year (or every other year) it was far more possible to produce the cloth and make the item of clothing entirely by hand. They also took care of what they had far better and reused everything they possible could by handing it down or repurposing in other ways.
When we look at clothing as something precious, something to be cared for, something to be kept for a long time, we take ourselves out of that cycle of running out for a new skirt just because we want it, wearing it once and donating/throwing it out when we realize out closet is full. Most donated clothing? ends in the landfill immediately anyways. Stuff we toss out ends in the landfill. If it is modern it likely has manufactured fibers which do not degrade and simply add to the pollution problems we all face.
Even if you do not do the entire project in the historically probable manner. It is still a labor intensive project. You will treasure this dress all the more for the work put into it. That is a big step in the right direction.
What a lovely video! Love the hair and your frank honesty about your struggles with historical accuracy. Historical accuracy isn’t really something I think about because I just don’t notice. It’s not something I’ve studied so it just doesn’t mean much to me. I think the joy in creating is much more important and access to that joy shouldn’t be kept from someone based on their willingness to use stale urine or whatever other barriers they may face.
Hearing the history of the sheep and spinning practices for those fleeces and learning about Kol himself made my spicy brain go burrrrr!
The mental image of the sheep going full viking mode to raid my neighbours' alfa alfa made me snort out loud 😂
Historical accuracy is unachievable when you are missing important information about the items you are trying to re-create. How do you know that people in the past didn't have technology to make things we thought needed modern technology 🤔
Evie, I am so excited for this project! I love how candid you are. Thanks for being you.
I've only made it about halfway through the video (thanks to my toddler)...but here's something I'm having to learn in my own life: you can't do it ALL. People are set in communities for a reason. They didn't ALL do ALL the jobs to make their clothes. In all likelihood, you'd trade your skills for help in other areas. You'd spin & your friend would sew it.
Its so interesting to see the process to be as historically accurate in producing historical garnents. I also can't help be smile at the thought that a majority of individuals would have spun and sewn these garments as fast as they could. So if they had access to a spinning wheel they would have most likely have used it. So you can say you were being historically accurate in desiring to complete the garment within the set time you planned for and therefore used a spinning wheel to speed up the process. :)
Love your highlights!!
When I first started watching historical sewists on youtube, I heard the term "historical adequacy", I try to live by that. I cannot make the needle I use in the old methods. I cannot yet spin my own thread nor weave my own cloth. The tools I use will contain modern materials (my 10th century tablet weaving pattern is on a loom made from an IKEA board and some pieces of leftover machine cut wood bits and tied together with neon orange acrylic yarn. And I was probably wearing polyester while I was working on it. Under an LED light, with electric baseboard heating.
Haha, on "practical skills", I just hand-stitched some buttonholes on a vest I made. They're atrocious. I am very bad at them. You'd think after handstitching 36 eyelets for my kirtle pinafore I'd be better at them. Nope. But somehow among all 5 of my sewing machines none of them do buttonholes. So I did them myself, and parts of them look pretty good so I'm still proud of them. Lately I've been embracing Historical Adequacy by using machine spun and woven commercially purchased natural fibres (usually the wrong ones cause wool is itchy and linen is expensive) to make handsewn flannel house dresses based on the rectangles-and-gores style cause it's very fabric-economic, and shirts based on the same concept, because again, historically the fit needed to be comfortable but they weren't going to waste fabric.
I'm endlessly fascinated by figuring out how to do things that these days are all done by machine, and even if I'm using historical inspiration, I will be using whatever I happen to have. As my armouring mentor alway said, if the historical armourers had the tools we have now like electric metal shears and electric drills, they sure would have used them!!
Haha, the green neps!! I'm constantly finding little bits of projects past in places they shouldn't be...
Lol i draw that same line in historically accurate scouring! I don't care that that's how it was done in the past, if anyone tries to put pee in my wool we are going to have problems
Ok I'm still at the beginning of the video and I have to say, I'm loving the hair color!!!! 😍
I love how you are doing this.
I have woven a tapestry with my own hand spun - via drop spindle and i washed, combed it myself. It took a good year and two months - prepping the wool and dying it (non tradidtional but with food colouring ) into yarn and then weaving it into the design I designed myself.... it is 1m x 1.5m in size as a complete project. I have woven a coat and a tea towel apron in viking styles myself but not with hand processed wool. But plan to in the future... --- probably not going as far as the "right sheep" but I do have friends that have sheep they raise and sheer themselves.
Get out of my head 😅 I majored in history as an undergrad, and I have been down allllll these terrible rabbit trails. It’s exhausting 😂
The spiral is real!!! 😂
@jillianeve I heard the best term: “ Historical ADEQUACY “ instead f accuracy
Oh the historical accuracy of it all! I belong to an historical group that re-enacts the War of 1812. I was shamed at my first outing many years ago, for: not having a fichu, where is your cap, are you wearing a chemise? :( Now I have a full wardrope of wonderful clothing, including a wonderful Kinsale cloak with a fantastic hood. Don't get me started on footwear as there is not any historical reproduction that I have found to fit my feet, with the exception of moccasins. While I do sew with a machine, I hand stitch what will be visible. I have been a novice spinner for many years, and am not a weaver, so, I have always looked for fabrics that would suit the historical time, and have patterns from several companies that produce them. Thank you for sharing your lovely project. Kol's fleece is to die for, no dyeing needed! Your tutorials are helping me greatly as I start again my spinning journey. And, as one of my re-enactor friends always says 'If they had it, they would have used it'.
Ok I loved this discussion. I think that YOU create your criteria and measure of historical accuracy. I would say if you add a crinoline tutu to this apron, then it’s absolutely NOT historically accurate! Lol! Do what is right for you. Do what is enjoyable to you, and I promise I will applaud (and not criticize) your efforts!! Jump in!!
You know, Gunna Svensdottir probably really loved her grandmother, and was thrilled (also a little scared) to build and dress her own loom the first time. Grossmutti would help, but "Learning is best done by doing."
Now, imagine that Gunna is now a young wife, and a trader brings a New. Thing. to the village. Whatever that new thing is, Grossmutti Did Not Do Things That Way.
Hopefully, Grossmutti was admiring, rather than sourly jealous.
Fabulous video, Evie!! I so relate to the perfectionism -- and having just worked on recreating some colonial clothes, this subject is on my mind too!! And -- I have to say it -- your hair is just gorgeous!! xoxox
Even as much as I love the idea of historical accuracy, I lack the skills and money to make it happen to the level the "ORG" as a whole apparently looks for, based on my experience. I think I'm stuck in renn faire mode forever, even tho I've never been to one. Need to start there so I can actually have fun with the creative process instead of stressing over "accuracy". BTW - I LOVE LOVE LOVE your hair today!
I'm so excited!
Also a spinner/weaver but in my case my paralysis came from... Having absolutely zero talent in tailoring. None. So broke down my goal into a first step of just making an ell. Clothing TBD.
I whole heartedly agree with your decision to spin some on the drop spindle, until you feel you've learned all you can glean from that.
Were not working for a museum, or have a museum's resources. Ultimately this is a learning/enjoyment project. So, imo, if you're not learning/honing a skill, move on to the next element.
And thankyou for the book recommendations. I've grabbed both and will be avidly following along.
I didn’t catch myself until after I bought fiber animals. 😂 I was determined to be historically accurate to the point of raising my own animals. 😅 thankfully I stopped at shearing equipment. It’s safer to use the razors.
In the historical garment sewing community, there's the concept "historically adequate." You do the best you can with what you have, what you can afford, and what your skill level can achieve. Just because someone cannot hand sew does not mean she or he should not machine make a garment that would traditionally have been hand sewn.
Also, when worrying about if you have enough fabric for the project, there is the adage -- "piecing is period."
Or, as I like to say, "Piecing is. Period!"
Basically, it comes down this: if the final result makes you happy, you did it right.
Spin on!
I understand your struggle with perfectionism. Considering how few extant garments we have from that time (compared to a few hundred years later), or even visual evidence in art and literature (illuminated manuscripts included here), starting with a whole sheep's fleece is an amazing feat of historical accuracy. We're lucky to still HAVE the sheep species that was around at that time, in that region of the world, without them having changed or barely changed since. Brings to mind Norwegian black oats, which are a relatively new thing to come back. It's an older type of oat that was grown back in those days (higher fibre content than modern oats, among other things if I don't misremember) that's been revived through active farming.
So, from another country whose ancetors were Norse as well, your project sounds amazing! Good luck and I'll enjoy watching your progress.
Looking forward to this whole project! I've just gotten into spinning, so I'm glad I've found your channel. Probably the best phrase I've heard to counter being "historically accurate" is "historically adequate." Another sewing RUclipsr made a video about that a few years ago, and I've seen a few other videos using the same phrase. It relieves some of the pressure we put on ourselves (and each other) by setting a limit to how far you feel is necessary to go on the historical accuracy spectrum.
I'm glad it's impossible to be historically accurate. Even more so for the time-period of my choice: late neolithic (here in the Netherlands). There are so very few real finds, nobody can tell how exactly the clothes looked back then. We can only make a guess, based on finds from other surrounding countries.
But my aim is only 'being as accurate as possible' and giving the visitors of the Hunebedcentrum (open air museum) an impression of how the people lived thousands of years ago. Also demonstrating some of their crafts (with plant fibers).
This made me think about the people whose work reenactors and historical costumers try to emulate, and those Viking women were working with what they had. If some other technique came along or a jump in technology was developed it would have made its way through households and changed the learning and spinning of villages and communities. The same way the sewing machine changed household sewing as it became more and more affordable., and it would change the way the learned would teach the next generation. So working with what you have in terms of equipment and skillset I don't think disrupts any of the historical accuracy that you are aiming for, especially because you are still working with such intent. I think the more important aspects of historical empathy or historical understanding are better aims because the idea is to feel how those people would have lived and helping that build a fuller picture of the context of when they lived. Because we don't have the same world any more, as you said we could never fully reach an idealized historical accuracy; we have different teachers (Viking grandmothers vs internet searches) and other demands on our time in a modern world.
This also made me think that I happen to have some Icelandic fiber of my own as well! It has already been prepped for spinning, so someone else has done those steps towards historical empathy for me, but I do happen to have it. So I'm excited to finish up the project I currently have on my wheel and then get spinning alongside you to see if I can do a similar project in tandem along with your videos of your journey.
If you don’t press the seams of this with a rock heated on an open campfire, I refuse to take you seriously anymore. 😋
😂😂😂🔥
Hmmmm. I've been wondering were you've been. Now, it seems you have been busy down this time warp rabbit hole. What a delight to watch. There's plenty to unravel here, but I am mostly inclined to comment on the philosophical approach to your decision making around accuracy. In my book you are "right on" to NOT think lineally. My understanding of many ancient cultures is that the need for survival required a cyclical view as dictated by nature. It matters not where you land on the circle the process can be predicted and enhanced by repetition. You are enjoying an ancient process that can spiral forever. I expect you can't get more authentic than that:). Thank you so much for all the work you are doing here. You made my morning.
I just received a partial black Icelandic fleece in the mail today myself! I got it for blending into other wools for the natural non superwash wool sock drawer project im working on (hoping the tog makes for a more durable yarn; also thinking about a lopi style yarn but plied) but now you have me thinking about medieval stockings. hmmmmm....
Kol is a very regal and beautiful animal! I have some Icelandic fleeces in my stash, and am looking forward to making something with them. I hadn't thought about a dress! Thanks for this great video!
I'm a perfectionist too. I agree that historical accuracy is complicated. It can also be a lot of fun, but it does seem to have taken on some rather inflexible and dogmatic characteristics that are terribly unrealistic. Our current socio-economic infrastructure doesn't allow for the communal camaraderie of working together as they did in bygone eras, which often made the work easier and more efficient. At this point it seems more important that we enjoy it; and that we feel a sense of accomplishment when it's finished. If we use a sewing machine, commercial fabrics or threads rather than handspun/woven, so be it. The real question is "Was it enjoyable?" If yes, then that's all that matters. I don't think our ancestors would have been worried about methodology or tools, so unless one's an archaeological reproduction artist, does it really matter? And after all, isn't innovation, new tools or improved methods a hallmark of being human?
It's fun to make things with tools used thousands of years ago, and it broadens one's perspective, but rebel that I am, I tend to avoid being a slave to it. After all, if they had the same tools we have, they would have used them, right?
I look forward to seeing your finished project, and no matter which tools you use, I wish you that wonderful feeling of accomplishment when you are done! Mostly, I hope you have fun with it!💖
It’s fun to learn about historical methods of making…but it shouldn’t be a stick to beat people (or ourselves) with. Dat fleece is pretttttttty. You’d figure out how to use a warp-weighted loom in two-ticks-it’s not that hard. But I totally support your using the tools you have. THAT-using the tools you have instead of spending money/time on new ones just for an abstract idea-strikes me as something people in the past would totally do.
Oh yeah, I definitely agree with drawing the line at stale urine! 🤢 I LOVE what you've done with your hair! So sultry 😉👍❤️😍
I'm finally all caught up! I have been watching all of your videos for a few weeks now and I'm so excited to be able to be on the same page as everyone! I took a spinning class last weekend after finding your videos and it was so much fun! I also purchased some roving and a drop spindle from your site and have been practicing almost non stop since the class. (When I tried beforehand, I didn't quite pick up on the right way to draft.) This is such a sweet community and I'm glad I found it. I had a somewhat random question, but I was watching a wool spinning video from the 70's in ireland and they use oils to grease the wool. Have you done this? Or is this a dated practice? I don't remember if you talked about it in a previous video so many to go through lol.
There are two things I have heard that bring some perspective to things like this.
"Anything worth doing is worth doing badly" This is actually in reference to depression, such as "if you can't bring yourself to shower, at least brush your teeth", that sort of thing. But it applies to other activities as well. Particularly, if you happen to suffer from depression and you don't enjoy doing things that you normally do, do them anyway, and if they are not up to your usual standard accept that you are working from a deficit, and that's ok. I think that can be applied to an exaggerated sense perfectionism as well. Perfectionism may not be a mental disorder, but it can certainly hinder your joy in an activity.
The next thing is' "You don't have to be good at something to enjoy doing it" This is in reference to skills like dancing or painting. It is particularly useful to remember when you are stuck in "The Gap" where your knowledge of a subject and your skill in the subject don't correlate. As in, you know what a good painting looks like, but don't yet have the skill to achieve what you envision in your head. You are still allowed to enjoy the process of producing the painting, even if it doesn't turn out the way that you want it do. If you enjoyed doing it, it was worth doing.
Taken together these two phrases allow for the enjoyment of a craft, even when it isn't what you wish it could be. (Such as completely historically accurate) Even if you know you could have done it better with more time, or more practice, or even more motivation. In the end, if you did your best, you did your best. I know that seems obvious and redundant, but sometimes we forget that your best today, may not have been your best yesterday, and it will likely not be your best tomorrow. If you let "perfect be the enemy of good" then you will never get the chance to enjoy the journey of learning.
All this to say, it does not appear that you are lacking for joy in your learning process, so don't be so hard on yourself for being in a state of learning something. If you already knew everything, -and had all of the skills necessary to be perfect, -and had the time to complete everything perfectly accurately, -and had the disposable income to acquire all of the necessary tools and materials, -and still had the motivation to do all of this completely accurately, ...would it be worth it? You wouldn't be learning anything new or gaining any new skills. It's the fact that you are researching new things, and learning new skills, that means you are growing.
And I'm over here in your corner cheering you on. I love your content. It is fantastic, and I learn something new with every video.
So thank you.
I've a friend who makes viking age clothing for a living. How historically accurate she makes the clothing is based entirely off of what the person she's making it for wants and is willing to pay for. You want machine seams and hand finishing? excellent, she'll do that for you. You want hand done seams and decorative finishing? Wonderful. That'll cost you extra.
At the end of the day, all you have is time. And it takes several hundred hours to spin enough wool to make a dress using a drop spindle.
Loved this video and your discussion of historical accuracy and to what degree it should be pursued. I just saw a video showing that the Navajo spinners would clean their Churro by burying it in sand for a while. Kind of like a dry shampoo process. Makes sense, given that water was precious. I might try that, but only for a part of the fleece. Power Scour is my choice!
Vis a vis historical accuracy, right on Evie. You seem to be charting a reasonable path through your project. I am looking forward to following your journey through the Viking Dress. You should use your own skills when creating the dress and supplement as you need to (no stinky stale urine). If you lived in a family or village creating clothing, you would likely have your mom or auntie do the hand sewing.
Hi Evie just create and enjoy the experience to whatever feels right for you. What other people think is none of your business. So looking forward to your creation and what l learn from my vicarious experience. Debs from Down Under
I love this video! I'm watching while I spindle spin and use a handheld distaff made by my friend for my birthday! Such fun to have something so interesting to watch. 😊
I tend to think of accuracy as a understanding, an informing, and a general guideline rather than a whole exacting thing. It's good to know what you can about a subject, but getting so exacting that it becomes an unattainable product takes the joy out of having a piece of history that you created with your own understanding. And I think, if you were to ask the original people what they would prefer, you'd probably find that they would choose some convenience over the extra labor. It's why inventions get invented in the first place... I feel I'm getting lost in the sauce here, but ultimately, use what you got.
Proessing with stale urine is just taking the piss.....loved this video and can't wait to see the rest of this project. Going as historically accurate as possible is, of course, important for all the reasons you gave, but also.....it's just plain fun!
I would probably do the same as you, machine sew unseen seems and I would definitely NOT be using stale urine. 🤢 I'm excited to see your journey on this project.
also the more i act that way the more i'm convinced that doing an entire arment from start to finish is not historically accurate anyway ^^ i probably happened to some people with everything you have to do in a day, the tasks would probably fall on different people of the household, sometimes whole communities so focusing on rigorous sourcing and spinning is more than enough (and it's not unlike what most people from the sewing community does) and it's highly valuable knowledge and insight
It's your project. You explore which aspects of history you're interested in recreating while doing this. You love spinning and working with wool so it makes sense that would be the part that you focus on. You don't sew by hand, it makes sense that you wouldn't be interested in recreating that aspect of this project.
Part of historical accuracy is that not every aspect of the garment is made by only one person.... but many different people with different specific skills
hello, lovely lady! i do very much understand and appreciate your thoughts and feelings about accuracy, research and procrastination, but if you tell me you did not close your eyes and stuck your hands into that gorgeous fleece up to your elbows, just to be one with it, enjoy it and thank Kol for his generous gift, i shall call you a liar. ;-)
i love your videos, your personality, your depth and determination. please be safe and thank you for sharing this wonderful experience ❤
not everyone wove their own cloth . people bought fabrics from peddlers back in the day . That's how the Black plague hit a town - a peddler tailor brought fabrics to the town with fleas , people bought silks pre-made into cloth and traded for cloth for centuries . sure people might have made their own cloth- washed the wool, carded spun and and dyed , but not everyone did . other people were bakers millers etc. you do you a make it the best you can ! Im sure a hand spinner would have rather used a spinning wheel to it took less time. a lot of 1800s women would rather use a sewing machine vs sewing things by hand. I'm sure our ancestors would rather buy quality premade cloth than weave it. I use pre made cloth , do the main seams by machine and hand finish the seams by hand.if it looks accurate because of the shape and hand finishing. nothing wrong with doing everything by hand but if it has the accurate shapes and colors who cares if its dyed with rit dye and machine sewn?! ?!
I love that you are making an apron dress from fleece to garment. It is something that is also on my to do list.
I especially love it due to the fact that I am rased on a sheep farm in Iceland, I spin and I am in a viking reenactment group!
To the best of my knowledge stale urine was not just used to dye the wool but also to clean it. Today if a fleece is extremely dirty we don't use any soap on it but just soak it in its own 'stuff' and it will become clean after being rinsed a few times. Leaving some of the lanolin in also helps to soften it, since it is very rustic, especially the tog. The þel was used for the garments closest to the skin and the tog was used for outer layers and weft. (sorry for the rambling, I can spend endless time talking about wool)
If you have any questions that you think I could help you with don't hesitate to contact me :)
(ps. Iceland is not in Scandinavia
I very much doubt that the original textiles were ever made to a specific plan. We can't even be sure of who the maker/s were. It could be a garment made by a child or her grandmother. It could have a pattern or style that was frowned upon and therefore survived because it was rarely used. It could have been sentimental for that matter and kept somewhere safe. What we perceive as 'Historically accurate' could be nothing of the sort. I'm glad you made this video. It needed saying!
It seems to me that one should strive for Historical Adequacy instead of Historical Accuracy.
Go forth and win!
I have heard that if they lived near a beck or stream they would wash the fleece in that with the soap they made and they left them to dry on the rocks not sure what time this was but I do know they were doing it in skipton Castle which is close to me from around the 1500s xx
Haven't watched the video yet, but the title and description reminds me of the documentary "The invention of trousers", which you can watch for free here on youtube, and in which experimental archeologists recreate the oldest trousers we have found so far. They also had to start with spinning their own yarn.
I really like this video I have similar problems but couldn't verbalize it well. you have defined it very well and given me a new way to look at it that's not linear.thank you.
one of my favorite things to do in the whole fleece to finished object thing is to scour a fleece from a sheep whose name i know...my last one was from Gort, an icelandic ewe. I also love to pull out the tog from the pel...it is meditative...it goes with a good mystery audiobook or musice. have fun with your project.
It’s ok to make historical clothing however you want. I want to learn how to hand sew because 1 machines scare the crap out of me and are too loud and 2 I want to know how people of the past made such wonderful clothes and the techniques they used. The fabric won’t be accurate since most of the time they will be made from thrifted fabric because that’s what I can afford and that’s alright with me🥰
This may be a gross question, but for clothing that was spun "in the grease,' would it not have smelled rancid over time?
I always find this debate amusing. I’m sure if the people of that era were listening to this type of debate the would be thinking “ why are you doing doing this the hard slow way. “ I’m sure if the people of that era had a sewing machine they wouldn’t have turned their nose up at it and said it’s not historically accurate. They would have used it
Gottland is an amazing fleece to work with - so lovely and soft - I never seperated the tog from the thel - I am now curious to try - thanks for the informative viewpoint.
As a textile fanatic, I always appreciate when people teach me things about historical methods, styles etc. I personally don’t need for every aspect to be completely accurate in one single project. I gain valuable insight and knowledge from learning about a component. It’s enough for me to talk about how they would have hand sewn the whole garment while demonstrating the spinning or weaving. I can extrapolate. But I am blown away when I see that someone shows their fleece to dress work and tells me how long it took! I guess I’m trying to say it’s about the learning for me - did I learn some aspect of this? Yes? Excellent! We’re good then. It adds to my knowledge base.
Probably my one pet peeve of Hollywood movies is the crazy abundance of clothes they show. Cloth was so precious that most people just didn’t have the wardrobe changes we see in the movies. I enjoy the costumes but think hmmmmn, they have NO IDEA of what it would take to produce that!!
Woot! I am on a similar project from the opposite angle. I raise a rare breed sheep and I want to explore why it used to be valuable by going from fleece to kirtle.
The way see it, the kind of accuracy depends on your goal for the garment/craft, and on what Aspect you want accuracy from. Re:goals, do you want the Vibes? The silhouette? Something that will Look realistic and immersive in a re-enactment or educational context? A replica meant to be looked at closely so people can have an idea how things were made? For example, for the educational re-enactment scenario, good weave structure (and/or handwoven) and correct fiber choice with visible seams handstitched but all invisible seams and finishes machined might be a good choice, but for a different context you might have different priorities. Like, say, if you're doing experimental archeology and the technique is the point rather than the finished product.
As for what aspect you want to achieve, see it like this: what do you want out of creating the garment? Do you want to Obtain something that looks authentic? Then you can focus on the looks. Do you want the Experience of crafting like people of the era? Then you might want to try to get the most accurate tools and materials, or try to craft in different conditions (and here too, you can have priorities. If you love spinning but can't handsew or vice versa you can focus on the experience you want). Do you want the experience of wearing clothes someone of the era might have worn and see how they feel? Then getting the construction and underpinnings and the right fiber might matter more than whether you can see a seam has been machined.
Anyway this is long-winded but I hope it makes sense. I agree with the spectrum thing, you can't judge accuracy on a scale because it's all about what you want to achieve with it. (I will continue to judge shows that pretend to be accurate but aren't, though, lol. I'm totally chill with obvious creative deviations, but trying to pass as historical when you're not is just misinformation imo)
Anyway, good luck and sorry about the long rambling. Perfectionism is a horrible, horrible trap, I can't wait to see Evie Without Shackles.
(Ps. great shirt and hair combo)
Totally agree!
Off topic, but your hair is amazing! Keep doing what you are doing.
Wonderful and thoughtful video. Can't wait for the rest of the series! But I will. I'm not rushing you 😀
I think, ultimately, you will never make others satisfied with how much/little "accuracy" your garment has. And what really matters is that you enjoy your craft, and you enjoy your garment. 🙂 Who cares what others think, as long as you're proud of yourself and that you enjoyed the journey to get there?
Excellent! I love the historical content combined with the practical considerations and approach. March is our goat brushing season so we're gearing up for that. But while we're waiting for the right time to brush, I think I'll revisit my research and see how much history I have - if any - about small operations. :)
Hi ! I scoured a 🐑 last summer and the neighbours think I am weird lol so funny !
Historical accuracy ❤ wool ❤ JillianEve ❤ this was a winning 🏆 evening!!!
Just saw you in Spin-off magazine! Love your videos!
Hi. I live in Norway and have a viking dress. Love your video and looking forward to follow you 😀
Love your hair
Have you tried soapwort scouring? Its great at leaving a bit of the lanolin.
I love all your projects but I'm excited to be able to look forward to this specific long-form project series for the weeks/next months :~) thanks for talking about the research spiral ! I think it's great when you wanna spend a lot of time doing proper research into methods before starting a project (and having fun doing that research) but I also know it can be kind of a positive feedback loop of discovering that there's more to know before you begin. Hard to break that spiral but really feels good afterwards :~) With historical accuracy, i like to think about connecting to those historic crafters across time and how they'd probably be really excited to try using some of the modern amenities we can take advantage of to make our costuming projects feasible for ourselves. Think about the future tools our descendants will have... I'd like to try some futuristic spinning tools!
Futuristic spinning tools is tickling my brain! You are giving me ideas.... 🤔😄
I look forward to seeing your project evolve. I hope you eventually travel to the farm to visit Kol in your apron dress!
I'm just starting out on the spinning journey, and your channel is informing me. I love the way you speak; I have a bit of trouble processing the spoken word and your measured rhythm is ideal (RUclips's subtitles generate some hilarious malapropisms). I haven't had to backtrack your videos more than a couple of times, and literally only because something fell down and went boom in another room.
Ahhh! Memories! Scouring fleece! Or "why Audrey is not allowed to use the spin cycle on the washing machine to process greasy fleece any more" (we had to call out a plumber and repipe the laundry drains, not entirely my fault, but my hobby made a convenient 'scapegoat' ha). Then there was one summer where I cold processed a fleece, using cold water and sodium carbonate (washing soda/soda ash...also "why Audrey is not allowed to 'borrow' the pool chemical supplies for re-enacting purposes"...I didn't really use THAT much...). Great video. And now my brain is playing "We're Vikings!" song from VeggieTales (sorry, not sorry!). I will have to add "Valkyrie's Loom" to my birthday/Christmas list. If you really want to go down the warp weighted rabbit hole, check out Sally Pointer's mini youtube play list on that. I have found that a weight of about 12-ish ounces per bundle of 10 (wool) warp threads is about right, tension wise.
When I watched her pour the water down the drain I said, “oh no, not your drains!!!!” 😂
I am excited to watch all of your project. I have Icelandic sheep, I spin, I weave , and am of Scandinavian heritage. I have to say, i LOVE spinning the wool of my Icelandic sheep and even the single ply handspun yarn is amazingly strong. BTW~ one of my Icelandic ewes comes from strong 'leader sheep' lines.
Icelandic leader sheep are such a fascinating feature of the breed! 🐑💜
Greetings from the Texas Gulf Coast, USA. Congratulations on the Spin Off Article (Spring 2023).
Thank you!! 🥰
This is Awesome! Looking forward to seeing your videos as this progresses.
I love your energy and enthusiasm. I loved seeing examples of short-tailed sheep. Kol definitely is a handsome sheep and his fleece will make a beautiful garment. I am loving this project. I feel connected to you Jillian and to the people we are learning about. My husband had a Scottish grandmother, while my family was English, Irish, French, and German. I appreciate the technology our ancestors used. I live in Alaska. The native people use animated skins, furs, and plant fibers for clothing. In such a harsh environment, their clothing was paramount to survival. This is still true today. Living in -40° F, Temps requires highly protective clothing. Thank you for the video.
Correction: animal skins, not animated.
PS: heritage breeds are AWESOME!
If you ever get the chance to spin some north ronaldsay, I 100% recommend.
Something about that seeweed diet makes the wool like nothing else I've spun. It's got some serious character lol.
It's at the top of my rare breeds to try list!
I knit my first wool sweater for my dad and he requested it to be extra oily… makes sense now, he’s Dutch