I observed this phenomenon in the early 80's when I started my career as a chef. I didn't know it had a name, but I've been using the technique ever since.
Thank you so very much. I've posed this exact question many times over the last few years and only got very pretentious and very snotty responses. "Just do the water drop test and shut up! There's no way to tell you the temperature , no way to tell the temp accurately..." etc. etc. etc. To be clear, I asked for a ballpark temp each time not the exact temp. Again, thank you. Your description and demo of the exact method is absolutely perfect, it will surely get hate from the crowd that love to be worshipped. Have watched you for quite awhile, finally subscribed.
honestly, as someone who has been using pretty much only stainless steel and carbon steel pans for the last 5 years, i would say that doing the water drop test for the pan is quick and easy to do, because not everybody has a thermometer to probe their pan, and it's a foolproof method of making sure your pan was hot enough, (and i doubt anybody actually measured what their pan temp was when that phenomenon occurs) nowadays though, i just feel the heat radiating off of the pan and know when my pan is hot enough so i can skip the water test, but for newcomers to stainless steel cookware, i would much rather recommend the pretty much free water over the instant read thermometer with the flat tip attachment that probably costs $20 i feel like nobody would want to use stainless steel if they had to shell out another tenner or two over the cost of their already more expensive pan investment, plus the inconvenience of measuring the temperature of the pan every time before they cook p.s. i dont believe that s.s. pans are the best and only pans you should have, i do believe you should have 1 stainless steel pan and 1 teflon pan, and that should cover all your bases for pan frying anything you need, from a french omelette, or beautifully runny japanese omurice (both which pretty much require teflon pans), to a ripping hot pan to make a wonderful crust on your skirt steak, or doing a quick stir fry, which a teflon pan will struggle with due to the temperature limit before it degrades
In a way, they're right because a chef isn't setting a temperature for the pan. They do however have access to water and develop a muscle memory for the pans and stoves they use frequently. The actual number is irrelevant and impractical. It's not snobby to tell you how they know, without performing scientific tests.
@@awesomestuff9715 I've started using ss and it was frustrating using the water test. it took so long, dropping and observing, waiting, dropping and observing, waiting. then i'd overheat, the pan and i'd still get some sticking. and the cycle repeats the next use.... I'm one of those who would prob shell out the $10 or two! didn't know there was that flat attachment :p
Good video but you're completely wrong about subsequent water droplets evaporating at those "cool" spots. Those spots are not cooler than the rest of the pan. Rather, those spots have residual minerals from the water, which breaks the surface tension of the water.
Damn! I knew it was too good to be true. I live in Texas and it's been HOT this summer. I've been "frying water" for a month now and harvesting the magic white powder to make a cooling lotion and cooling house paint.
The droplets might be trapped by the mineral residue left behind by the previous droplets. They seem to assume the shape of the residue and lose surface tension on the bottom of the droplet.
Yes. It has nothing with the alleged lower temperature that just happens to be a perfect circular shape as the previous water droplet. I don't know how this youtuber assumed that that was the right conclusion.
@@maxgluteus4263 random movement due to the Leidenfrost effect. Previous droplet evaporated leaving behind mineral residue making that part of the pan "stickier". Like you walking down the sidewalk and stepping onto a random piece of gum someone else dropped.
Great test! Cooking at such temperatures does help to prevent sticking. However I have a problem - most oils start to smoke, because temperature is beyond smoke point.
I wonder about the effect of a higher altitude on the Leidenfrost Effect? Water boils at a lower temperature the higher the altitude, could this effect happen earlier in the heating process?
This would actually help, because the Leidenfrost Effect would occur at a lower temperature, decreasing the risk of burning the butter or crisping the egg white. You would, however, still have to lower the temperature of the oil-butter mixture to around 300F to avoid browning.
Great video for me being a new cook. I'm going to use an infrared heat gun to check that temperature thanks for the video save me the trouble of looking online and who knows what you get. 👌
Infrared (noncontact) thermometers don’t give accurate reading on shiny steel surfaces. You need a contact thermometer to get accurate readings on bare steel.
According to Wikipedia and several other sources, the Leidenfrost point is approximately at 193 °C (379 °F). In my own experiments, this is too low a temp, so I believe your numbers are spot on. I used a laser thermometer and got temperature ranges a little lower than you, but still worked great. The trick is to figure out where the dial should be set on your hob or element, then just set it there anytime you are using stainless steel frying pans. All this being said however, nothing beats my trusty 100 year old cast iron frying pans. Better than Teflon and I'll likely be leaving them to somebody in my will LOL. Great video, and great science! Eric.
Good question. I took it all the way up to 480F and it was still working. I didn’t get it to the point where it stopped working but I’ll test it again and follow up.
@@PrudentReviews Thanks! The reason why I ask is because, as you correctly pointed out, there's a myriad of factors affecting the non-stick temp, such as the mass and temp of the food you add in. So it makes more sense to overshoot than undershoot the temp threshold. But with carbon steel pans, there's a serious risk of burning off the seasoning if the temp is too high.
If you mean the Leidenfrost effect at what temperature does it stop working? There is no upper limit really. the pan can literally be heated to red hot and there will still be the Leidenfrost effect when you put drops of water on it. There are videos of steel workers running their hands through a stream of molten steel (2200+ degrees Fahrenheit) unharmed because of the Leidenfrost effect. The primary issue with heating your pan too high is of course you're probably going to burn anything you put into the pan, like oil and food etc. You're also going to damage your pan and make it warp. The waterdrop method of seeing if your pan is preheated enough works pretty well to estimate the temperature since you cannot use one of those infrared thermometers on shiny stainless steel as it will not give you the actual temperature, which is why PR used that exact type of thermometer in the video to measure the temperature of the pan
@@theredbar-cross8515 The leidenfrost trick is strictly for unseasoned stainless steel pans. If you actually do have a well-applied seasoning on your pan, the seasoning itself should do a good enough job of lubricating whatever you're cooking. It's why stainless steel pans aren't really ideal for everything. It's almost impossible to cook, say, a runny yolk egg on it without burning the edges to a crisp. But they're great for steaks where getting to a high searing temperature is important.
Question; Does this higher surface temperature, of the pan, actually damage the pan in any way?? I’ve always been reluctant to bring my stainless cookware up this high. As always.. interesting and informative video… 👍👍
I tried this same test one, but in "reverse". That is, I heated my stainless pan until the water beaded up and bounded around, then turned the heat _off_ and measured the temperature until the water _stopped_ and evaporated (I use the same type of surface thermometer). I found that if a droplet has already formed and become stable, it can survive at slightly lower temperatures, usually disappearing by around 375F. I thought this was interesting because normally there are a couple issues with the Leidenfrost effect: overshooting and evenness. But if you then turn the heat off and wait for the effect to end, then you can be pretty confident at that moment the entire pan is around 375-ish, since heat spreads out when you aren't adding more. Then you can turn your heat back on. Of course I just see the Leidenfrost effect as a temperature gauge -- it's not "the" temperature things become nonstick. If I use like 1 tsp of butter (and less can work) then I can get stainless to act sufficiently nonstick for blended eggs at ~300F (and a bit cooler can work). Which is how I've been making french omelettes for a few weeks now. But I have also cooked french omelettes (gooey, no browning) using Leidenfrost temps. You just have to be faster. I've even done soft (no crispy edges) over-easy sunny-side-up eggs with only a small amount of oil (no butter) at Leidenfrost temps -- but I had to get creative for that one. Put the eggs in, wait a second for the bottom to firm so they won't stick much later, then turn the temp off and put a lid on it.
You have some good ideas here. For me the key point (to which I subscribe) is that you don't have to be in the Leidenfrost Effect when you are actually cooking the eggs in a stainless steel pan. It somehow "conditions" the pan, but you want to introduce the eggs when the pan is at a much lower temperature. My preference is 280 to 300F at the edges of the pan, as measured by an infrared gun set to the emissivity of hot oil (which is the way the guns seem to be shipped from the factory, even if the emissivity is adjustable). This temperature range also works for frying delicate eggs in carbon steel and cast iron pans, but don't drop water into a hot carbon steel or cast iron pan or you will ruin the seasoning. It's not necessary anyway, because the infrared gun set for emissivity of hot oil will also read well for uncoated cast iron and seasoned carbon steel. Just heat them until the temperature has equalized at 330 degrees F or so, introduce the oil, turn down the heat, add the butter, wait for it to melt, stop bubbling, and blend with the oil, and introduce the room-temperature egg(s) at around 300F edge temperature. Or skip all of this horsing around and use a Teflon pan, keeping your temperatures in the 280 to 300F and using a Teflon-safe spatula or other tool.
@@HappyGuy11 I was recently surprised to find that I could do nonstick fried eggs in stainless at 280F with just a little butter. I thought egg whites would be much stickier than when blended with yolks. But as long as the eggs were room temp when added, they'd free themselves with just some jiggling. Butter's also pretty good at indicating temperature on its own if you know what you're doing. So once you know what you're doing it's pretty easy, and using a seasoned pan is even slightly easier. Credit to "Uncle Scott's Kitchen" for this. But it does seem like the pan temp before adding food is not really the important part, it's also about how much temperature it loses when food is being added, which can be effected by lots of things, including quantity and food temperature. Adding multiple cold eggs at once in the same situation tends to cause sticking. Now I think this is part of why people come to believe in the leidenfrost temp. It's high enough that even after adding most foods, the final temp is still enough to prevent sticking -- but that means you're not _really_ "cooking" mostly at those lower temps -- not leidenfrost temps. It's probably also more associated with stainless because most stainless has less heat capacity than most cast iron, so stainless tends to drop its temp MUCH more dramatically, and the easiest way to compensate for this (even by accident) is to overheat the pan in the beginning. Of course I believe heat transfer rate does depend on temp difference, so it probably does cook food "faster" in the first few moments, which may be relevant for more sensitive foods. I've had iffy results with IR on other surfaces. Really dark seasoning, like Lodge's factory seasoning, seem fine, but even seasoned carbon steel seems to vary a lot. If it's patchy, darker spots read higher temps than lighter (but still seasoned) spots, even if they're similar distances away from the heat source. But it does seem like it's mostly just shiny metal where it fails. It works well on most foods, and even water. And walls/floors/ceilings. Floors really do seem to be a couple degrees cooler than ceilings.
@@SkyvalReam You're probably right about not needing to go so high as the Leidenfrost temperatures to condition the stainless pan, but one advantage to going a bit above your desired cooking temperature and letting it cool down, is that the temperature delta between the center and the edge is minimized. You really want the edge temperature to be up to your desired cooking temperature or the egg may stick as soon as it slides into a cooler part of the pan. Your comments about the problems with infrared temperature sensing are good, especially with bare stainless steel. There is no way to get an accurate IR reading from bare stainless unless you reset the emissivity setting on the gun, which I don't want to do, since I use it mostly on my Blackstone griddle, my cast iron pans, and my carbon steel pan. In my experience the Blackstone surface and my well-seasoned (by lots of cooking) cast iron pans give me reproducible temperatures when measured with the IR gun, but the proof of the pudding is the reading I get when there is hot oil on the surface. I use the bare Blackstone, bare cast iron, and bare carbon steel temperatures as "guidance" prior to introducing oil, but the hot oil reading is the one I am referencing when I talk about egg cooking temperatures. I have less experience with stainless steel pans, but I have had pretty good results cooking eggs at Uncle Scott's 260-290F range (which he suggested for carbon steel pans) with all three types of pans, as long as I measure the temperatures after the oil has been added to the surface and allowed to come up to temperature. I'll be surprised if nobody rises to the bait about just using a Teflon pan at moderate temperature. I can get good results cooking delicate fried eggs in cast iron, carbon steel, and stainless skillets, so I guess I pass the test, but is it really worth all the extra effort? I will say that it has really helped my cooking by raising my awareness of the importance of food and pan temperatures.
@@HappyGuy11 I don't trust emissivity adjustments either anyways. I originally thought that'd fix it so I got a second IR gun with adjustable emissivity, planning on only using it on SS and keeping my first for other things, but I found I still couldn't get consistent results with it. If I set the emissivity so that the IR gun agreed with my surface probe at 400F, then when the pan cooled to room temperature, the IR gun was still reading 300F! Though, I can't prove it's not an issue with the IR gun. But yes, heavily seasoned pans probably work, and just measuring when there's oil in the pan should probably work as well. I'd only be worried if the amount of oil matters. Maybe I'll test that next? Giving heat time to distribute is also helpful, and I try to use lower heat and/or give mine an extra minute or two once they're up on temp. As for why I bother with all this? I originally got interested in trying to figure out how to do nonstick cooking in seasoned and stainless pans partly because I saw so much contradictory info. E.g. everyone said everything stuck to stainless, and even that that was sort of the point, but others demonstrated it being very slick! This really bugged me, and I wanted to try to get a better understanding what was going on. It turned out the main thing I was missing that almost no one talks about is that the type of fat matters (people did talk about heat control). Butter, or oils that contain emulsifiers, are slicker than pure/simple oils. In fact I've found that compared to fat-type, the amount of fat/oil almost doesn't matter (as long as the pan is minimally coated). I've I'm ever satisfied, I might move away from SS to CS/CI or even Carbon Clad more often since they are a little slicker (though not as much as you might think) I am also sympathetic to concerns around PFAS and other surfaces, if only in manufacture, longevity, and/or disposal. I have considered that these concerns might be overblown and that it could be worth using them in some cases (I do own one), but I never had much use for them, and now after learning better practices in other pans, they're even less useful, and avoiding them buys me some peace of mind Ironically, as you alluded to, some of the practices that make other pans slicker are also good practices in general for other reasons (especially pre-heating/heat control, and using at least _some_ oil for evenness, etc) so they should arguably be learned even if you're using a nonstick coating. But then that coating is less useful But really, I also just like the charm and simplicity of iron/steel pans, and especially SS. I find cooking enjoyable, and being more involved sometimes enhances things, at least up to a point (I seem strangely less enthused about maintaining pans or seasoning outside of active cooking).
@@SkyvalReam I got interested in stainless steel pans when found that cooking some foods would soften or remove the seasoning from my cast iron or carbon steel pans. I have found them to be (as advertised) great for cooking acidic foods or ones that leave a lot of fond. I have set out to try and understand whether I could use them for everything. So far I prefer carbon steel or cast iron for fried eggs (probably in that order), but stainless will work in a pinch if I'm careful. I wonder if you have experimented with stainless pans of different thickness, weight, and cost. I am using rather inexpensive 3-layer clad ones that are under 2.5mm in thickness. Some RUclipsrs have recommended 3mm as a minimum. Do you have any experience with whether the expensive ones are much better?
@@OurFamily- I always lower the temp after adding oil, before actually cooking. I have since found that on the control freak, I just need to preheat at 275F for a little bit, add oil, then cook. Not necessary to preheat to over 400F for nonstick effect in my case.
This is brilliant. When steel gets to a high enough temperature, it will louse its magnetic attraction. Please try this test with a magnet and see if it louses its magnetic attraction at the same temp the water starts to dance.
I don't think it does- first of all, there are non-magnetic types of stainless steel, and secondly loss of magnetism occurs at much higher temperatures (well over 1000F).
1:17 more likely reason is that the sharp pointy minerals in those spots interfered with the “hovercraft” like levitation effect of the water droplets, piercing the edges and letting the steam cushion escape.
Thanks for doing this research for us… I might also add that another variable is altitude, which will determine oxygen content of the air in which you are cooking… This will also have an effect on results.
What is the attachment you used on your thermometer? I don’t think I’ve ever seen that before and since I’ve read an infrared thermometer doesn’t work accurately on stainless steel I’d be interested in getting that attachment so I don’t always have to do the water test but could just quickly check the exact temperature
honestly, water test is faster and easier, just go to the sink, wet your hands, flick your hand at the pan to get the water off, and then you got a little bit of water on the pan to check
It's not an attachment. The thermometer I used has a swivel tip designed specifically for flat surfaces. I linked to it in the description of this video if you're interested in getting one.
You can avoid the chilling effect of evaporation spots by wiping them up with a paper towel as soon as you see them sizzle, indicating that the pan is too cool for the Leidenfrost Effect. You'll have no spots and no chilled areas in your pan. You can also move your pan to bring the flame directly under the spot where you did the test, helping the edge of the pan to reach the center temperature. When the pan is hot enough to maintain the Leidenfrost Effect out to its edges, turn down the heat, wait a little, and introduce your oil. Wait a few seconds to let the oil reach the pan temperature and then you can get a correct temperature reading with an infrared gun (with the out-of-the-box emissivity setting). Introduce a small bit of butter into the coolest part of the oil and see how vigorously it sizzles. If the butter melts slowly, you're already too cool. If it melts quickly without excessive violence and no butter discoloration, you are approaching the correct temperature for cooking delicate non-stick eggs. Introduce the rest of your butter and continue monitoring the temperature with your IR gun. I have had good success with introducing a room temperature egg when the oil-butter mixture is around 280 to 300F. For me this temperature is high enough to maintain the non-stick quality of a stainless skillet, but cool enough that the egg won't develop a brown crust. Since I'm using a gas range and a relatively light pan, I can make subtle adjustments to the gas setting, allowing me to stay in the oil-butter temperature of 250 to 300F, which gives me non-stick eggs without a crust. This is a fun cooking challenge, which is more difficult than getting the same excellent result with a cast iron or a carbon steel pan (using different procedures than the above), but I'm starting to wonder why I've spent so much time trying make a perfect fried egg in each of these kinds of skillets, when many professionals cook fried eggs in no-fuss non-stick pans, a result I've been consistently able to achieve for years. If I was cooking for a living there is no way I would take the time and care to follow the above procedure just to prove I could get a good result in a stainless steel pan. When time and money are on the line and your customers are expecting a delicate over-easy egg in a reasonable amount of time, break out your non-stick "egg pan" and make a perfect over-easy egg every time. But then, of course, we wouldn't need all these elaborate procedures for the simple task of frying up an egg without it sticking or developing a brown crust. I enjoyed the challenge of learning how to do it (and it improved my cooking skills), but I'm already back to frying eggs in a non-stick pan whenever I have to make more than a couple (as when I am serving a crowd). I know some folks can't bear the thought of any Teflon getting into their food, but the delicate way I cook eggs means the amount of material lost from the coating is negligible compared to other risks we accept every day (such as driving among idiots).
Are you sure that measuring temperature is the ideal method? My understanding from a deep dive on this years ago was that you really need to measure heat flux. This is awesome by the way!
personally, i would say no, it's a bit of a waste of time when just splashing some water to check if it turns into the little water bubbles is way quicker; though knowing the temp also would give you some general guidelines personally, i dont even have to test it anymore and just do by putting my hand above the pan to feel the heat; much faster than grabbing a heat gun or thermometer but back before i didn't really know what i should expect to feel, i would test with some water to see if the leidenfrost effect was happening, and i would put my hand above to feel what it felt like so i could memorize if or if not the pan was hot enough by sense
That's pretty hot! Makes me want to use carbon steel or even a teflon-style-coated pan instead, so I don't burn my butter or oil. (or other ingredients, like shallots)
@@i95smuggler i would generally avoid it if you have birds though because the offgassing of teflon is bad for birds (generally safe for humans and other pets though afaik)
Look into ceramic coated pans as an alternative to Teflon. If cared for, these are just as "non-stick", but avoid PFAS chemicals. I think they last longer too.
My main question is whether it's actually the Leidenfrost effect making the pan nonstick, or whether it's just a proxy for the correct temperature needed to make it nonstick, and in that case, whether it can be somewhat lower and still be nonstick.
Its a combination, but very smart question! Many people here start yapping about 430f being scorching, will burn everything, wont be able to nonstick a flipped over egg etc etc because they are too fixated on the idea that it is just the leidenfrost effect that creates the non stick properties while its a combination of 4-5 factors.
The water drop test is actually the only method I've ever used and it's never failed me. Now you will never rush the pan again, I bet! :) Have a good weekend.
honestly, in my experience with stainless steel, you will not be able to make sunny side up eggs without a crispy white, because the proteins only really release from the pan after it cooks enough, so if you want to make runny scrambled eggs (though for this it's less of an issue if you have enough fat), or sunny side up eggs with a nice soft bottom, i would recommend carbon steel or teflon pans over stainless
Just did this with an infrared thermometer (the kind that shoots a red beam). I cooked eggs without them sticking. Thanks for doing this as directions like "turn to medium" depend on the stove. Now I can turn my burner to 440°F/460°F or use my infrared thermometer. It makes it a lot easier to zero in on the stove setting. Medium on my induction burner is 300° so could take a fair bit of fiddling to figure out the correct temperature.
As its infrared and you cant see it it also uses a red laser. Your stove probably has a manual describing every power setting, you can learn a lot from that for future reference.
I was just about to ask this - especially since I've never seen quite that type of surface thermometer with the flat disk at the end. I'd love to see this test too.
What about other ingredients? Such as oils, carbohydrate solution, sugar solution and salt solution? Maybe we can understand non stick properties of pan in case of mixed fluids like lemon juice and cooking of potatoes.
What if you are using a more delicate cooking oil like Koroneiki Olive Oil where the smoke point is a little lower (around 375-405F). Do you just drop the heat and wait for it to cool down a little? Will the non-stick properties of this effect still stay as is for a while?
There are papers testing LF of water stainless combo. The result is largely inconclusive. The takeaway is just cook with whatever setting works for you, and go as low temp as it is allowed with your specific set up.
low smoke point oils are only good for cooking on medium heat pretty much; the 420f temp is only required for preheating the pan, once you're cooking, you dont need to be at that temp anymore and can be much lower; e.g. if you're cooking a steak, start with a high smoke point neutral oil like avocado oil, get a good sear on it, then butter baste it afterwards when the pan isnt at the burning/smoking temperature of butter
the issue is that I can cook my eggs before the pan has heated.. at the current costs on utilities here in the UK I don't feel like spending nearly 3x the gas for my breakfast.. +the heating up time.. so as unhealthy as none stick pans are I can save up the cost of 4 new pans a year on saves resources by not wasting gas on heating up a pan to make it none stick..
This is brilliant. At a high enough temp steel will louse its magnetic attraction. Please test to see if a magnetic will louse its attraction at the same temp a drop of water starts to dance.
@@bradley3549 Oh, I agree that you are right about that. The correction was pointed at the suggestion that "Stainless steel is not magnetic, regardless of temperature", which is definitively false because it indicates that there is no such thing as magnetic stainless steel. Inductive vs reductive logic, etc. But yeah, you are correct 💯
It's important to add this note, as I believe it was missed in this video: at 430 degrees, butter, canola, and almost all other refined seed oils will smoke. This is called the smoke point. A bit of it is not bad. But constantly cooking with fats at their smoke point will increase the amount of trans fats in the foods cooked i this environment. Also, cooking at high temperatures like 430 degrees F, will result in browning. This is a tasty side effect, but also has been identified as a carcinogen. Just a couple of considerations when choosing to cook with high temperatures just to avoid food sticking to the pan.
personally, heat the pan up till the leidenfrost effect occurs, add a high smoke point oil (will lower the temp of the pan slightly, i use avocado oil), and then after swirling it to coat the entire bottom of the pan, i add whatever i'm cooking which drops the pan temps even more, and either prevents the oil from reaching the smoke point in the context of avocado oil, or for lower smoke point oils, it lowers the pan temp enough to stop it from smoking; you dont have to keep the pan at the 420f temperature to keep it from sticking, but starting cooking with that temperature keeps things from sticking as much, and then adjust the stove as needed while cooking
@@alanwatts8239 carcinogens doesn't mean that you'll definitely get cancer It just increases your risk of getting cancer There are some chain smokers that don't have cancer even after smoking for decades That doesn't mean that they won't ever get cancer, but it also shows that even constant exposure to carcinogens won't absolutely cause cancer Bbqed foods also tend to contain higher levels of carcinogens
Well that makes stainless kind of useless to me as I never cook at that high of a temperature. As an example: On my NutriChef 10" Ceramic pan on a Nuwave Induction unit, I use 275 degrees to cook a Bubba Burger perfectly in the timeline suggested on the box. Eggs the same, stir-fry the same. once in a while, I'll play around with higher temperatures but as it's suggested to use low to medium with ceramic, I tend to avoid high temperatures. Using 420 or so seems ridiculous to me unless I'm searing a steak. I've had this pan for about 6 months and it looks just like new and I expect a decent lifespan but if I had to replace it every year, I would. It only cost $45 or so on Amazon. The ease of cleanup is a bit of a shock. A paper towel to soak up any grease and initial wipe down, then a hot water rinse with another wipe with a fresh towel and it's good to go
depends on the oil; avocado oil will be fine, it would be shimmering at that temp something way lower temp like olive oil or butter will absolutely smoke if you leave it on for too long; for those oils, i pour the oil, and basically immediately put the food into the pan and then that keeps it from smoking too much; though i generally avoid starting cooking with those oils/fats
Thank you! Not an omelette, but the same steps apply: How to Cook SCRAMBLED Eggs in Stainless Steel WITHOUT Sticking ruclips.net/video/dFtkmInrlWw/видео.html
I’m going to make a video on this soon. There are many ways but I’m most cases I just scrub with a sponge and dish soap. If there are any stubborn stains or discoloration, I’ll use Bar Keepers Friend.
Get a good set of stainless steel pans. They'll last you decades, they're the most versatile pan type, they're oven safe, and maintenance is minimal(soap and bartenders friend). The investment is worth it. Next get a dropper bottle, fill it with water and keep it next to the stove. I heat for 1.5-2 min on medium high on a gas stove then add drops until I see the effect. The other key is to have easy access high heat oil like canola or avocado oil. Once you achieve the effect, reduce the pan to medium, add oil, swirl the oil in the pan and start cooking immediately.
I've found almost all induction cookers have _comically_ inaccurate thermometers, unless they have a true integrated surface thermometer like Breville's Control Freak.
@@jeffdege4786 Yeah I mostly agree in principle, but I meant _comically_ bad. If it's working for what you've tried it with so far, then great, but when I've tried it, they would easily be off by _hundreds_ of degrees F, or simply never turn off even as the true temp careened past 600F!! That's neither organic chemistry NOR cooking! But it probably does depend on a lot of factors, so it might be usable if you're aware of it and adapt for it, or get lucky. But if you try something new, who knows?
Use ghee for high-temp cooking. Very high smoke point, very easy to make at home. Nab an extra pound or two of butter when it’s on sale (unsalted, non-fancy). Cook on medium till it foams, then you can lower the temp a bit and cook till the milk solids collect on the bottom and brown. (Push and foam aside to peek at the pan bottom.) The more brown, the nuttier the flavor -but don’t let it burn. Be conservative when pouring off the oil at the end, so the all the browned butter solids remain behind (they’re delicious, but they’ll burn at high heat; just spread them on toast or eat with a spoon). I tend to keep mine in the fridge, but it keeps quite well on the counter and is much softer/easier to scoop that way.
My wife makes ghee whenever we run out. Its so good on rice. She's Nepali so she makes everything from scratch even butter, yogurt, bread and when I'm lucky rice wine. 😁
So, this might sound like a stupid question, but what if you want to cook food at a lower temperature? Do you just have to suck up the fact that it'll stick?
use medium low to medium for around 2 minutes to heat the pan evenly and prevent warping on cheaper pans; and even some more expensive pans can warp too; which also gives you some time to do some prep work/finish your prep work before cooking
I am not convinced. I can get the effect around 240 F, unless my infrared thermometer is inaccurate. Also, do you think eggs cook best at such a high temperatures like 420 F? I am confused.
Infrared thermometers are definitely inaccurate on stainless steel. It's always waaay too low. I've heard people claim that some can adjust for that with an emissivity setting, but I got one that has that option and I still couldn't get it accurate. You can try this if you want: get your pan moderately hot, check its temp with your IR thermometer, then add in a fair bit of oil and immediately watch the temp. My guess is that the IR's reading will quickly skyrocket.
@@SkyvalReam Yes, I am now aware that IR thermometers are not accurate for stainless steel. I still don't understand why anyone would want to heat their pan to 420 F as it's too hot for many foods. Thanks for the reply!
I wanted to buy a surface thermometer like that one, but it is very expansive and not versatile, great for pans but pretty useless otherwise. I got an IR thermometer instead, 40 euros instead of 150 or something like that. It is pretty neat, but you need to calibrate the emissivity in order to get accurate readings, and emissivity changes based on the material. I tried the same experiment that you did with my IR thermometer and my black carbon steel pan, I got a reading of about 320 C when the Leidenfrost started, based on your results I guess my emissivity setting (95%) was off. If you have an IR thermometer like mine maybe you could make a video comparing the two, and maybe you could try to figure out emissivity values for stainless steel or carbon steel
on stainless. Yes, because of the shiny surface of the pan. The device is reads Infrared from a reflected source and not from the pan's surface. btw, you own a Infrared thermometer. The laser is only a visual cue of where you're aiming.
That's great if I want to have water drops dance around my pan, but it's useless for anything else. Once you put an egg in the pan, the temperature drop will stop the leidenfrost effect when you want to flip your egg. Side A may not stick, but side B will... unless you maintain a screeching 430°, at which point your egg is way overcooked. Egg white coagulates (becomes “set”) between 144° and 149° Fahrenheit. Egg yolks coagulate at a temperature between 149° and 158°.
Try it, you will apparently be flabbergasted at how wrong your theory is. Once your pan is primed you are good to go. Noone claims your pan needs to stay at 430f nor that the leidenfrost effect needs to be in full effect for non stick nor do I see claims about the leidenfrost effect being the only factor in SS non sick properties. ;)
I have concluded from this experience that the front-right-corner of your stove needs to be raised, it's not level. How can you eat your meat, if you stove is not level?
Potentially. I did one with scrambled eggs, similar concept. How to Cook SCRAMBLED Eggs in Stainless Steel WITHOUT Sticking ruclips.net/video/dFtkmInrlWw/видео.html
This happens when steam stops water from sticking to pan, doesnot applicable for oil and frying. The best bet is to lower the cooking temperature and use thick bottom utensil...
I'm not sure I'm convinced the Leidenfrost effect is useful for cooking. Can you do another test cooking an egg at the temperates you measured in this video?
@@PrudentReviewsI see that's helpful, thanks. To me though, it seems like the leidenfrost effect is more of a quick temperature gauge before cooking the eggs rather than something in effect when actually cooking. Would you say that's correct? I'm guessing the temperature in the pan is dropping from the egg being added preventing the egg from gliding like the water droplets do.
@@reginaldfrank656 it’s more of a general range to aim for that seems to help eggs not stick based on lots of trial and error. I made this video mainly because I got so many questions asking what the exact temperature Leidenfrost happens at. I was curious myself since various websites have different numbers.
I observed this phenomenon in the early 80's when I started my career as a chef.
I didn't know it had a name, but I've been using the technique ever since.
Thank you so very much. I've posed this exact question many times over the last few years and only got very pretentious and very snotty responses. "Just do the water drop test and shut up! There's no way to tell you the temperature , no way to tell the temp accurately..." etc. etc. etc.
To be clear, I asked for a ballpark temp each time not the exact temp.
Again, thank you. Your description and demo of the exact method is absolutely perfect, it will surely get hate from the crowd that love to be worshipped.
Have watched you for quite awhile, finally subscribed.
I’ve gotten this question dozens of times. It was time to finally test it and find out. Appreciate the support.
honestly, as someone who has been using pretty much only stainless steel and carbon steel pans for the last 5 years, i would say that doing the water drop test for the pan is quick and easy to do, because not everybody has a thermometer to probe their pan, and it's a foolproof method of making sure your pan was hot enough, (and i doubt anybody actually measured what their pan temp was when that phenomenon occurs)
nowadays though, i just feel the heat radiating off of the pan and know when my pan is hot enough so i can skip the water test, but for newcomers to stainless steel cookware, i would much rather recommend the pretty much free water over the instant read thermometer with the flat tip attachment that probably costs $20
i feel like nobody would want to use stainless steel if they had to shell out another tenner or two over the cost of their already more expensive pan investment, plus the inconvenience of measuring the temperature of the pan every time before they cook
p.s. i dont believe that s.s. pans are the best and only pans you should have, i do believe you should have 1 stainless steel pan and 1 teflon pan, and that should cover all your bases for pan frying anything you need, from a french omelette, or beautifully runny japanese omurice (both which pretty much require teflon pans), to a ripping hot pan to make a wonderful crust on your skirt steak, or doing a quick stir fry, which a teflon pan will struggle with due to the temperature limit before it degrades
In a way, they're right because a chef isn't setting a temperature for the pan. They do however have access to water and develop a muscle memory for the pans and stoves they use frequently. The actual number is irrelevant and impractical. It's not snobby to tell you how they know, without performing scientific tests.
@@awesomestuff9715 I've started using ss and it was frustrating using the water test. it took so long, dropping and observing, waiting, dropping and observing, waiting. then i'd overheat, the pan and i'd still get some sticking. and the cycle repeats the next use.... I'm one of those who would prob shell out the $10 or two! didn't know there was that flat attachment :p
@@awesomestuff9715 my grand kid's kids will be using my cast iron and stainless pans. One piece pans are end all be all for me. Same with knives.
Good video but you're completely wrong about subsequent water droplets evaporating at those "cool" spots. Those spots are not cooler than the rest of the pan. Rather, those spots have residual minerals from the water, which breaks the surface tension of the water.
Damn! I knew it was too good to be true. I live in Texas and it's been HOT this summer. I've been "frying water" for a month now and harvesting the magic white powder to make a cooling lotion and cooling house paint.
Both could be true. As he moved the thermometer to the outside it got cooler than the center of the pan.
@@chocofro3 I was making a joke.
The hottest part of the pan is going to be where the most heat is applied.
Rewatch at 1:40 , he confirms his theory.
@@mikemorgan5015 I wasn't replying to you. My comment was to the iu2. The main comment.
The droplets might be trapped by the mineral residue left behind by the previous droplets. They seem to assume the shape of the residue and lose surface tension on the bottom of the droplet.
Probably both!
My thoughts exactly. I don't think that droplets cooling the surface are even a factor.
Yes. It has nothing with the alleged lower temperature that just happens to be a perfect circular shape as the previous water droplet. I don't know how this youtuber assumed that that was the right conclusion.
How does a droplet know there are mineral residue somewhere on the pan? And figure out the path to get there?
@@maxgluteus4263 random movement due to the Leidenfrost effect. Previous droplet evaporated leaving behind mineral residue making that part of the pan "stickier". Like you walking down the sidewalk and stepping onto a random piece of gum someone else dropped.
This is good knowledge. An absolute, definitive test finally.
Great test! Cooking at such temperatures does help to prevent sticking. However I have a problem - most oils start to smoke, because temperature is beyond smoke point.
You only need to reach the target temperature for the pan when when you begin pouring the oil. After that, you can lower the heat
Use avocado oil. It's healthy and has the highest smoke point.
@@RHannah78Yes, I think the smoke point is around 500°
@@_DeepGroove_why? Then the oil will stick in the pan.
Passing the smoke point of most oils polymerization effect which becomes a non stick layer
That is super freaking hot! Never would have expected that
It's about medium-high on a stove top so not that hot. great for certain meats but veggies and eggs would burn.
I wonder about the effect of a higher altitude on the Leidenfrost Effect? Water boils at a lower temperature the higher the altitude, could this effect happen earlier in the heating process?
Yes, I would expect that to be the case.
This would actually help, because the Leidenfrost Effect would occur at a lower temperature, decreasing the risk of burning the butter or crisping the egg white. You would, however, still have to lower the temperature of the oil-butter mixture to around 300F to avoid browning.
Nice one! I'll keep my thermometer ready. 220 degrees at the center. Thanks.
Amazing testing! Love this
Thank you!
Great video for me being a new cook. I'm going to use an infrared heat gun to check that temperature thanks for the video save me the trouble of looking online and who knows what you get. 👌
Infrared (noncontact) thermometers don’t give accurate reading on shiny steel surfaces. You need a contact thermometer to get accurate readings on bare steel.
According to Wikipedia and several other sources, the Leidenfrost point is approximately at 193 °C (379 °F). In my own experiments, this is too low a temp, so I believe your numbers are spot on. I used a laser thermometer and got temperature ranges a little lower than you, but still worked great. The trick is to figure out where the dial should be set on your hob or element, then just set it there anytime you are using stainless steel frying pans. All this being said however, nothing beats my trusty 100 year old cast iron frying pans. Better than Teflon and I'll likely be leaving them to somebody in my will LOL. Great video, and great science! Eric.
At what temperature does it stop working? What temperature is too high?
Good question. I took it all the way up to 480F and it was still working. I didn’t get it to the point where it stopped working but I’ll test it again and follow up.
@@PrudentReviews Thanks!
The reason why I ask is because, as you correctly pointed out, there's a myriad of factors affecting the non-stick temp, such as the mass and temp of the food you add in. So it makes more sense to overshoot than undershoot the temp threshold.
But with carbon steel pans, there's a serious risk of burning off the seasoning if the temp is too high.
If you mean the Leidenfrost effect at what temperature does it stop working? There is no upper limit really. the pan can literally be heated to red hot and there will still be the Leidenfrost effect when you put drops of water on it. There are videos of steel workers running their hands through a stream of molten steel (2200+ degrees Fahrenheit) unharmed because of the Leidenfrost effect.
The primary issue with heating your pan too high is of course you're probably going to burn anything you put into the pan, like oil and food etc. You're also going to damage your pan and make it warp.
The waterdrop method of seeing if your pan is preheated enough works pretty well to estimate the temperature since you cannot use one of those infrared thermometers on shiny stainless steel as it will not give you the actual temperature, which is why PR used that exact type of thermometer in the video to measure the temperature of the pan
@@theredbar-cross8515
The leidenfrost trick is strictly for unseasoned stainless steel pans.
If you actually do have a well-applied seasoning on your pan, the seasoning itself should do a good enough job of lubricating whatever you're cooking. It's why stainless steel pans aren't really ideal for everything. It's almost impossible to cook, say, a runny yolk egg on it without burning the edges to a crisp. But they're great for steaks where getting to a high searing temperature is important.
If the pan is liquid steel you’ve gone too far
Question; Does this higher surface temperature, of the pan, actually damage the pan in any way??
I’ve always been reluctant to bring my stainless cookware up this high.
As always.. interesting and informative video… 👍👍
Very helpful metric. Thanks for sharing the test results.
I tried this same test one, but in "reverse". That is, I heated my stainless pan until the water beaded up and bounded around, then turned the heat _off_ and measured the temperature until the water _stopped_ and evaporated (I use the same type of surface thermometer). I found that if a droplet has already formed and become stable, it can survive at slightly lower temperatures, usually disappearing by around 375F.
I thought this was interesting because normally there are a couple issues with the Leidenfrost effect: overshooting and evenness. But if you then turn the heat off and wait for the effect to end, then you can be pretty confident at that moment the entire pan is around 375-ish, since heat spreads out when you aren't adding more. Then you can turn your heat back on.
Of course I just see the Leidenfrost effect as a temperature gauge -- it's not "the" temperature things become nonstick. If I use like 1 tsp of butter (and less can work) then I can get stainless to act sufficiently nonstick for blended eggs at ~300F (and a bit cooler can work). Which is how I've been making french omelettes for a few weeks now.
But I have also cooked french omelettes (gooey, no browning) using Leidenfrost temps. You just have to be faster. I've even done soft (no crispy edges) over-easy sunny-side-up eggs with only a small amount of oil (no butter) at Leidenfrost temps -- but I had to get creative for that one. Put the eggs in, wait a second for the bottom to firm so they won't stick much later, then turn the temp off and put a lid on it.
You have some good ideas here. For me the key point (to which I subscribe) is that you don't have to be in the Leidenfrost Effect when you are actually cooking the eggs in a stainless steel pan. It somehow "conditions" the pan, but you want to introduce the eggs when the pan is at a much lower temperature. My preference is 280 to 300F at the edges of the pan, as measured by an infrared gun set to the emissivity of hot oil (which is the way the guns seem to be shipped from the factory, even if the emissivity is adjustable). This temperature range also works for frying delicate eggs in carbon steel and cast iron pans, but don't drop water into a hot carbon steel or cast iron pan or you will ruin the seasoning. It's not necessary anyway, because the infrared gun set for emissivity of hot oil will also read well for uncoated cast iron and seasoned carbon steel. Just heat them until the temperature has equalized at 330 degrees F or so, introduce the oil, turn down the heat, add the butter, wait for it to melt, stop bubbling, and blend with the oil, and introduce the room-temperature egg(s) at around 300F edge temperature. Or skip all of this horsing around and use a Teflon pan, keeping your temperatures in the 280 to 300F and using a Teflon-safe spatula or other tool.
@@HappyGuy11 I was recently surprised to find that I could do nonstick fried eggs in stainless at 280F with just a little butter. I thought egg whites would be much stickier than when blended with yolks. But as long as the eggs were room temp when added, they'd free themselves with just some jiggling. Butter's also pretty good at indicating temperature on its own if you know what you're doing. So once you know what you're doing it's pretty easy, and using a seasoned pan is even slightly easier. Credit to "Uncle Scott's Kitchen" for this.
But it does seem like the pan temp before adding food is not really the important part, it's also about how much temperature it loses when food is being added, which can be effected by lots of things, including quantity and food temperature. Adding multiple cold eggs at once in the same situation tends to cause sticking.
Now I think this is part of why people come to believe in the leidenfrost temp. It's high enough that even after adding most foods, the final temp is still enough to prevent sticking -- but that means you're not _really_ "cooking" mostly at those lower temps -- not leidenfrost temps. It's probably also more associated with stainless because most stainless has less heat capacity than most cast iron, so stainless tends to drop its temp MUCH more dramatically, and the easiest way to compensate for this (even by accident) is to overheat the pan in the beginning. Of course I believe heat transfer rate does depend on temp difference, so it probably does cook food "faster" in the first few moments, which may be relevant for more sensitive foods.
I've had iffy results with IR on other surfaces. Really dark seasoning, like Lodge's factory seasoning, seem fine, but even seasoned carbon steel seems to vary a lot. If it's patchy, darker spots read higher temps than lighter (but still seasoned) spots, even if they're similar distances away from the heat source. But it does seem like it's mostly just shiny metal where it fails. It works well on most foods, and even water. And walls/floors/ceilings. Floors really do seem to be a couple degrees cooler than ceilings.
@@SkyvalReam You're probably right about not needing to go so high as the Leidenfrost temperatures to condition the stainless pan, but one advantage to going a bit above your desired cooking temperature and letting it cool down, is that the temperature delta between the center and the edge is minimized. You really want the edge temperature to be up to your desired cooking temperature or the egg may stick as soon as it slides into a cooler part of the pan. Your comments about the problems with infrared temperature sensing are good, especially with bare stainless steel. There is no way to get an accurate IR reading from bare stainless unless you reset the emissivity setting on the gun, which I don't want to do, since I use it mostly on my Blackstone griddle, my cast iron pans, and my carbon steel pan. In my experience the Blackstone surface and my well-seasoned (by lots of cooking) cast iron pans give me reproducible temperatures when measured with the IR gun, but the proof of the pudding is the reading I get when there is hot oil on the surface. I use the bare Blackstone, bare cast iron, and bare carbon steel temperatures as "guidance" prior to introducing oil, but the hot oil reading is the one I am referencing when I talk about egg cooking temperatures. I have less experience with stainless steel pans, but I have had pretty good results cooking eggs at Uncle Scott's 260-290F range (which he suggested for carbon steel pans) with all three types of pans, as long as I measure the temperatures after the oil has been added to the surface and allowed to come up to temperature. I'll be surprised if nobody rises to the bait about just using a Teflon pan at moderate temperature. I can get good results cooking delicate fried eggs in cast iron, carbon steel, and stainless skillets, so I guess I pass the test, but is it really worth all the extra effort? I will say that it has really helped my cooking by raising my awareness of the importance of food and pan temperatures.
@@HappyGuy11 I don't trust emissivity adjustments either anyways. I originally thought that'd fix it so I got a second IR gun with adjustable emissivity, planning on only using it on SS and keeping my first for other things, but I found I still couldn't get consistent results with it. If I set the emissivity so that the IR gun agreed with my surface probe at 400F, then when the pan cooled to room temperature, the IR gun was still reading 300F! Though, I can't prove it's not an issue with the IR gun. But yes, heavily seasoned pans probably work, and just measuring when there's oil in the pan should probably work as well. I'd only be worried if the amount of oil matters. Maybe I'll test that next?
Giving heat time to distribute is also helpful, and I try to use lower heat and/or give mine an extra minute or two once they're up on temp.
As for why I bother with all this?
I originally got interested in trying to figure out how to do nonstick cooking in seasoned and stainless pans partly because I saw so much contradictory info. E.g. everyone said everything stuck to stainless, and even that that was sort of the point, but others demonstrated it being very slick! This really bugged me, and I wanted to try to get a better understanding what was going on. It turned out the main thing I was missing that almost no one talks about is that the type of fat matters (people did talk about heat control). Butter, or oils that contain emulsifiers, are slicker than pure/simple oils. In fact I've found that compared to fat-type, the amount of fat/oil almost doesn't matter (as long as the pan is minimally coated). I've I'm ever satisfied, I might move away from SS to CS/CI or even Carbon Clad more often since they are a little slicker (though not as much as you might think)
I am also sympathetic to concerns around PFAS and other surfaces, if only in manufacture, longevity, and/or disposal. I have considered that these concerns might be overblown and that it could be worth using them in some cases (I do own one), but I never had much use for them, and now after learning better practices in other pans, they're even less useful, and avoiding them buys me some peace of mind
Ironically, as you alluded to, some of the practices that make other pans slicker are also good practices in general for other reasons (especially pre-heating/heat control, and using at least _some_ oil for evenness, etc) so they should arguably be learned even if you're using a nonstick coating. But then that coating is less useful
But really, I also just like the charm and simplicity of iron/steel pans, and especially SS. I find cooking enjoyable, and being more involved sometimes enhances things, at least up to a point (I seem strangely less enthused about maintaining pans or seasoning outside of active cooking).
@@SkyvalReam I got interested in stainless steel pans when found that cooking some foods would soften or remove the seasoning from my cast iron or carbon steel pans. I have found them to be (as advertised) great for cooking acidic foods or ones that leave a lot of fond. I have set out to try and understand whether I could use them for everything. So far I prefer carbon steel or cast iron for fried eggs (probably in that order), but stainless will work in a pinch if I'm careful. I wonder if you have experimented with stainless pans of different thickness, weight, and cost. I am using rather inexpensive 3-layer clad ones that are under 2.5mm in thickness. Some RUclipsrs have recommended 3mm as a minimum. Do you have any experience with whether the expensive ones are much better?
Interesting! I'll try 430F on my breville control freak next time when cooking with stainless steel.
You can but keep in mind that perfect leidenfrost temp isnt ideal cooking temp.
@@OurFamily- I always lower the temp after adding oil, before actually cooking. I have since found that on the control freak, I just need to preheat at 275F for a little bit, add oil, then cook. Not necessary to preheat to over 400F for nonstick effect in my case.
@@imelpomene Do you cook pancakes?
@@LiberatedMind1 Yes, occasionally
Never 400 thats waayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too hot, 220 or so add oil g2g send it.
This is brilliant.
When steel gets to a high enough temperature, it will louse its magnetic attraction.
Please try this test with a magnet and see if it louses its magnetic attraction at the same temp the water starts to dance.
I don't think it does- first of all, there are non-magnetic types of stainless steel, and secondly loss of magnetism occurs at much higher temperatures (well over 1000F).
@@guzimirHR thank you for the quick response.
Look up 'Curie temperature'. For stainless steel we are talking well over 1000f indeed
1:17 more likely reason is that the sharp pointy minerals in those spots interfered with the “hovercraft” like levitation effect of the water droplets, piercing the edges and letting the steam cushion escape.
great video, i always thought it was so cool seeing water bead up on a pan and this was informative
Glad it was helpful!
good thinking! good job! you've made a name for yourself with this... overall, great video!!!
Thank you so much!
Thanks for doing this research for us… I might also add that another variable is altitude, which will determine oxygen content of the air in which you are cooking… This will also have an effect on results.
It would be nice if you display the temperature in Celsius.
Great work always wondered about this.
Thank you
Very enjoyable video, Andrew.
Thank you!!
It is not because of colder points but because of contaminated points possibly by minerals from the water.
Thank you for your time testing and sharing!
What is the attachment you used on your thermometer? I don’t think I’ve ever seen that before and since I’ve read an infrared thermometer doesn’t work accurately on stainless steel I’d be interested in getting that attachment so I don’t always have to do the water test but could just quickly check the exact temperature
I also would like to know how to obtain it. The thermometer looks like a ThermoWorks, but the disk part is not on their web site.
@@DraftCider ThermoWorks Pro-Surface Thermapen, found via Google Lens
honestly, water test is faster and easier, just go to the sink, wet your hands, flick your hand at the pan to get the water off, and then you got a little bit of water on the pan to check
It's not an attachment. The thermometer I used has a swivel tip designed specifically for flat surfaces. I linked to it in the description of this video if you're interested in getting one.
You can avoid the chilling effect of evaporation spots by wiping them up with a paper towel as soon as you see them sizzle, indicating that the pan is too cool for the Leidenfrost Effect. You'll have no spots and no chilled areas in your pan. You can also move your pan to bring the flame directly under the spot where you did the test, helping the edge of the pan to reach the center temperature. When the pan is hot enough to maintain the Leidenfrost Effect out to its edges, turn down the heat, wait a little, and introduce your oil. Wait a few seconds to let the oil reach the pan temperature and then you can get a correct temperature reading with an infrared gun (with the out-of-the-box emissivity setting). Introduce a small bit of butter into the coolest part of the oil and see how vigorously it sizzles. If the butter melts slowly, you're already too cool. If it melts quickly without excessive violence and no butter discoloration, you are approaching the correct temperature for cooking delicate non-stick eggs. Introduce the rest of your butter and continue monitoring the temperature with your IR gun. I have had good success with introducing a room temperature egg when the oil-butter mixture is around 280 to 300F. For me this temperature is high enough to maintain the non-stick quality of a stainless skillet, but cool enough that the egg won't develop a brown crust. Since I'm using a gas range and a relatively light pan, I can make subtle adjustments to the gas setting, allowing me to stay in the oil-butter temperature of 250 to 300F, which gives me non-stick eggs without a crust. This is a fun cooking challenge, which is more difficult than getting the same excellent result with a cast iron or a carbon steel pan (using different procedures than the above), but I'm starting to wonder why I've spent so much time trying make a perfect fried egg in each of these kinds of skillets, when many professionals cook fried eggs in no-fuss non-stick pans, a result I've been consistently able to achieve for years. If I was cooking for a living there is no way I would take the time and care to follow the above procedure just to prove I could get a good result in a stainless steel pan. When time and money are on the line and your customers are expecting a delicate over-easy egg in a reasonable amount of time, break out your non-stick "egg pan" and make a perfect over-easy egg every time. But then, of course, we wouldn't need all these elaborate procedures for the simple task of frying up an egg without it sticking or developing a brown crust. I enjoyed the challenge of learning how to do it (and it improved my cooking skills), but I'm already back to frying eggs in a non-stick pan whenever I have to make more than a couple (as when I am serving a crowd). I know some folks can't bear the thought of any Teflon getting into their food, but the delicate way I cook eggs means the amount of material lost from the coating is negligible compared to other risks we accept every day (such as driving among idiots).
Are you sure that measuring temperature is the ideal method? My understanding from a deep dive on this years ago was that you really need to measure heat flux.
This is awesome by the way!
personally, i would say no, it's a bit of a waste of time when just splashing some water to check if it turns into the little water bubbles is way quicker; though knowing the temp also would give you some general guidelines
personally, i dont even have to test it anymore and just do by putting my hand above the pan to feel the heat; much faster than grabbing a heat gun or thermometer
but back before i didn't really know what i should expect to feel, i would test with some water to see if the leidenfrost effect was happening, and i would put my hand above to feel what it felt like so i could memorize if or if not the pan was hot enough by sense
The ideal method is to just cook, gain experience.
That's pretty hot! Makes me want to use carbon steel or even a teflon-style-coated pan instead, so I don't burn my butter or oil. (or other ingredients, like shallots)
Never use Teflon that high, all the nasty chemicals in Teflon are released way before that. I don't use Teflon at all. It's really toxic
Yea I agree!
@@samagee2211 Teflon is not toxic if you use medium heat. The highest heat for Teflon use should be 300°.
@@i95smuggler i would generally avoid it if you have birds though because the offgassing of teflon is bad for birds (generally safe for humans and other pets though afaik)
Look into ceramic coated pans as an alternative to Teflon. If cared for, these are just as "non-stick", but avoid PFAS chemicals. I think they last longer too.
You have such a great channel
Thank you so much
My main question is whether it's actually the Leidenfrost effect making the pan nonstick, or whether it's just a proxy for the correct temperature needed to make it nonstick, and in that case, whether it can be somewhat lower and still be nonstick.
Its a combination, but very smart question! Many people here start yapping about 430f being scorching, will burn everything, wont be able to nonstick a flipped over egg etc etc because they are too fixated on the idea that it is just the leidenfrost effect that creates the non stick properties while its a combination of 4-5 factors.
This explains why my egg caught tonight, I was thinking that I hadn't allowed the frypan to get hot enough. Now I know I didn't.
The water drop test is actually the only method I've ever used and it's never failed me.
Now you will never rush the pan again, I bet! :)
Have a good weekend.
honestly, in my experience with stainless steel, you will not be able to make sunny side up eggs without a crispy white, because the proteins only really release from the pan after it cooks enough, so if you want to make runny scrambled eggs (though for this it's less of an issue if you have enough fat), or sunny side up eggs with a nice soft bottom, i would recommend carbon steel or teflon pans over stainless
Just did this with an infrared thermometer (the kind that shoots a red beam). I cooked eggs without them sticking. Thanks for doing this as directions like "turn to medium" depend on the stove. Now I can turn my burner to 440°F/460°F or use my infrared thermometer. It makes it a lot easier to zero in on the stove setting. Medium on my induction burner is 300° so could take a fair bit of fiddling to figure out the correct temperature.
As its infrared and you cant see it it also uses a red laser. Your stove probably has a manual describing every power setting, you can learn a lot from that for future reference.
This is incredible research
So, to cook my food I have to cook it at the same temperature that paper flashes to fire?
Can you do a comparison of surface thermometers? Instant read Thermapro vs Testo vs infra red vs a cheap cuisinart griddle thermometer.
I was just about to ask this - especially since I've never seen quite that type of surface thermometer with the flat disk at the end. I'd love to see this test too.
Great idea
What would you be most interested in seeing? Which is more accurate?
@@PrudentReviews Accuracy vs. cost.
@@PrudentReviews reactivity as well. How quickly it can take a reading.
What about other ingredients? Such as oils, carbohydrate solution, sugar solution and salt solution? Maybe we can understand non stick properties of pan in case of mixed fluids like lemon juice and cooking of potatoes.
What if you are using a more delicate cooking oil like Koroneiki Olive Oil where the smoke point is a little lower (around 375-405F). Do you just drop the heat and wait for it to cool down a little? Will the non-stick properties of this effect still stay as is for a while?
So this means you should use oil with a higher flash point like avocado oil? 420 seems much hotter than what EVOO or butter can handle.
There are papers testing LF of water stainless combo. The result is largely inconclusive.
The takeaway is just cook with whatever setting works for you, and go as low temp as it is allowed with your specific set up.
low smoke point oils are only good for cooking on medium heat pretty much; the 420f temp is only required for preheating the pan, once you're cooking, you dont need to be at that temp anymore and can be much lower; e.g. if you're cooking a steak, start with a high smoke point neutral oil like avocado oil, get a good sear on it, then butter baste it afterwards when the pan isnt at the burning/smoking temperature of butter
the issue is that I can cook my eggs before the pan has heated..
at the current costs on utilities here in the UK I don't feel like spending nearly 3x the gas for my breakfast.. +the heating up time..
so as unhealthy as none stick pans are I can save up the cost of 4 new pans a year on saves resources by not wasting gas on heating up a pan to make it none stick..
This is brilliant.
At a high enough temp steel will louse its magnetic attraction.
Please test to see if a magnetic will louse its attraction at the same temp a drop of water starts to dance.
Stainless steel is not magnetic, regardless of temperature
@@juancaballero1173 Are you sure about that Sparky?
@@juancaballero1173 This is not true and is a strange idea to have. What gave you this notion?
@@quincywilliams9860 Both of you are half right. Some stainless steel is magnetic, and some stainless steel is not.
@@bradley3549 Oh, I agree that you are right about that. The correction was pointed at the suggestion that "Stainless steel is not magnetic, regardless of temperature", which is definitively false because it indicates that there is no such thing as magnetic stainless steel. Inductive vs reductive logic, etc. But yeah, you are correct 💯
Amazing video! How long does it take to reach that temperature on a regular fire stove?
Thank you. Depends on the pan and the stove but usually around a minute and a half or two minutes
Will you do a video putting theory into practice?
It's important to add this note, as I believe it was missed in this video: at 430 degrees, butter, canola, and almost all other refined seed oils will smoke. This is called the smoke point. A bit of it is not bad. But constantly cooking with fats at their smoke point will increase the amount of trans fats in the foods cooked i this environment. Also, cooking at high temperatures like 430 degrees F, will result in browning. This is a tasty side effect, but also has been identified as a carcinogen. Just a couple of considerations when choosing to cook with high temperatures just to avoid food sticking to the pan.
personally, heat the pan up till the leidenfrost effect occurs, add a high smoke point oil (will lower the temp of the pan slightly, i use avocado oil), and then after swirling it to coat the entire bottom of the pan, i add whatever i'm cooking which drops the pan temps even more, and either prevents the oil from reaching the smoke point in the context of avocado oil, or for lower smoke point oils, it lowers the pan temp enough to stop it from smoking; you dont have to keep the pan at the 420f temperature to keep it from sticking, but starting cooking with that temperature keeps things from sticking as much, and then adjust the stove as needed while cooking
This is what I do also, I explain further in this video ruclips.net/video/BYpYK1DV_SU/видео.htmlsi=EQFTa2aR7xN1lEP7
@@awesomestuff9715this is exactly the method used for carbon steel woks
It's a wonder not everyone has cancer if you take into account everything that is considered a carcinogen.
@@alanwatts8239 carcinogens doesn't mean that you'll definitely get cancer
It just increases your risk of getting cancer
There are some chain smokers that don't have cancer even after smoking for decades
That doesn't mean that they won't ever get cancer, but it also shows that even constant exposure to carcinogens won't absolutely cause cancer
Bbqed foods also tend to contain higher levels of carcinogens
Well that makes stainless kind of useless to me as I never cook at that high of a temperature.
As an example:
On my NutriChef 10" Ceramic pan on a Nuwave Induction unit, I use 275 degrees to cook a Bubba Burger perfectly in the timeline suggested on the box. Eggs the same, stir-fry the same. once in a while, I'll play around with higher temperatures but as it's suggested to use low to medium with ceramic, I tend to avoid high temperatures. Using 420 or so seems ridiculous to me unless I'm searing a steak.
I've had this pan for about 6 months and it looks just like new and I expect a decent lifespan but if I had to replace it every year, I would. It only cost $45 or so on Amazon. The ease of cleanup is a bit of a shock. A paper towel to soak up any grease and initial wipe down, then a hot water rinse with another wipe with a fresh towel and it's good to go
Is it safe to add cooking oil when the pan is that hot? It won't burn, fume?
depends on the oil; avocado oil will be fine, it would be shimmering at that temp
something way lower temp like olive oil or butter will absolutely smoke if you leave it on for too long; for those oils, i pour the oil, and basically immediately put the food into the pan and then that keeps it from smoking too much; though i generally avoid starting cooking with those oils/fats
What brand of thermometer do you use? I can only find laser thermometers on Amazon, not this type you are using here.
It’s the ThermoWorks Pro Surface Thermapen
@@PrudentReviews thanks!
FYI - I linked to the exact one in the video description
@@PrudentReviews oh whoops, I did look, but missed it 🙈
@@PalladiumOne no worries! I forgot to link to it earlier. I just added it.
great video! could you make one on how to cook an omelette on a stainless steel pan? ie foods that use a temp below 430? thank you 🙂
Thank you! Not an omelette, but the same steps apply:
How to Cook SCRAMBLED Eggs in Stainless Steel WITHOUT Sticking
ruclips.net/video/dFtkmInrlWw/видео.html
Where is the pinned comment with the 25% off promo code for the surface thermometer?
Interesting experimental results for sure but dude, you have some seriously hard tap water there!
Yea it is. It turns your pans white if you don't wipe them dry.
What is the best way to clean a stainless steel pan? Should you soften the brown areas by soaking them in water?
I’m going to make a video on this soon. There are many ways but I’m most cases I just scrub with a sponge and dish soap. If there are any stubborn stains or discoloration, I’ll use Bar Keepers Friend.
@@PrudentReviews thanks.
This was a fun video to watch. Thank you
The smoke point of Olive Oil is 210 Celsius. So does that mean you can’t cook on Stainless with Olive Oil?
Did you factor in the mineral content of your water?
which type of thermometer do you use which such sensor for flat surface. I can recognize perhaps thermapen but did not find this type of sensor.
The thermometer looks like a ThermoWorks, but the disk part is not on their web site.
Thermoworks pro-surface thermapen. on sale rn!
I linked to it in the description
Does having a softened water change the tempature? I know salted butter burns faster than unsalted.
What about volcanoes? If this effect is happening in-reverse using soil moisture, can we modify the ground to channel flow direction?
I'm curious, how long did it take to heat up the pans to get this effect to work?
Get a good set of stainless steel pans. They'll last you decades, they're the most versatile pan type, they're oven safe, and maintenance is minimal(soap and bartenders friend). The investment is worth it. Next get a dropper bottle, fill it with water and keep it next to the stove. I heat for 1.5-2 min on medium high on a gas stove then add drops until I see the effect. The other key is to have easy access high heat oil like canola or avocado oil. Once you achieve the effect, reduce the pan to medium, add oil, swirl the oil in the pan and start cooking immediately.
This is why I use induction cooking. I can set the temperature and not have to worry about preheating too long or not long enough.
I've found almost all induction cookers have _comically_ inaccurate thermometers, unless they have a true integrated surface thermometer like Breville's Control Freak.
@MustSeto It's cooking, not organic chemistry. I don't need precision, I need repeatability.
@@jeffdege4786 Yeah I mostly agree in principle, but I meant _comically_ bad. If it's working for what you've tried it with so far, then great, but when I've tried it, they would easily be off by _hundreds_ of degrees F, or simply never turn off even as the true temp careened past 600F!! That's neither organic chemistry NOR cooking!
But it probably does depend on a lot of factors, so it might be usable if you're aware of it and adapt for it, or get lucky. But if you try something new, who knows?
Does it work with a dry carbon steel pan as well?
I wonder does your altitude matter? If so what elevation did you run your test?
Vital info! Thanks a lot
After the dry pan reaches that temperature, whats next? Pour in cold oil and put in the food immediately?
Depends what you’re cooking. These are the steps for eggs:
Eggs Sticking to Stainless Steel? The #1 Mistake to Avoid
ruclips.net/video/BYpYK1DV_SU/видео.html
Can you do a video on cleaver knives please, best for your bucks type of thing
I know they differ but what setting did you have to crank the stove up to to achieve 450 degrees?
Does this mean that no oil is needed at these temps?
You still meet some oil, especially for eggs
This is content for me! (already a subscriber)
Thank you!!
Use ghee for high-temp cooking. Very high smoke point, very easy to make at home.
Nab an extra pound or two of butter when it’s on sale (unsalted, non-fancy). Cook on medium till it foams, then you can lower the temp a bit and cook till the milk solids collect on the bottom and brown. (Push and foam aside to peek at the pan bottom.) The more brown, the nuttier the flavor -but don’t let it burn.
Be conservative when pouring off the oil at the end, so the all the browned butter solids remain behind (they’re delicious, but they’ll burn at high heat; just spread them on toast or eat with a spoon). I tend to keep mine in the fridge, but it keeps quite well on the counter and is much softer/easier to scoop that way.
My wife makes ghee whenever we run out. Its so good on rice. She's Nepali so she makes everything from scratch even butter, yogurt, bread and when I'm lucky rice wine. 😁
oil is cheaper, healthier and easier to use.
ghee is better for flavor of course, but oil is easier to just cook with
Where did you get that thermometer with the flat tip? 😀
Thermoworks Pro-Surface
The thermometer looks like a ThermoWorks, but the disk part is not on their web site.
@@DraftCider it’s on there, I found it. It’s called the pro surface thermapen. 😀
It's from ThermoWorks. I linked to the exact one I used in the description of this video if you're interested in getting one.
This was great - Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
So, this might sound like a stupid question, but what if you want to cook food at a lower temperature? Do you just have to suck up the fact that it'll stick?
You can absolutely cook at a lower temp. This is more for ultra sticky foods like eggs/fish.
It may also vary with altitude!
ah-haaaaa! thank ya!! that's cool! this is good info. i never knew.
Does carbon steel pan has the same thing? Even with a well seasoned pan?
You don't need to get a carbon steel as hot because the seasoned surface is less prone to sticking.
Now I need to figure out what level to put on a burner to get to that temp and I'll be golden..
use medium low to medium for around 2 minutes to heat the pan evenly and prevent warping on cheaper pans; and even some more expensive pans can warp too; which also gives you some time to do some prep work/finish your prep work before cooking
@@awesomestuff9715 I give it a full 5 min, never any sticking problems.
I am not convinced. I can get the effect around 240 F, unless my infrared thermometer is inaccurate. Also, do you think eggs cook best at such a high temperatures like 420 F? I am confused.
Infrared thermometers are definitely inaccurate on stainless steel. It's always waaay too low. I've heard people claim that some can adjust for that with an emissivity setting, but I got one that has that option and I still couldn't get it accurate.
You can try this if you want: get your pan moderately hot, check its temp with your IR thermometer, then add in a fair bit of oil and immediately watch the temp. My guess is that the IR's reading will quickly skyrocket.
@@SkyvalReam Yes, I am now aware that IR thermometers are not accurate for stainless steel. I still don't understand why anyone would want to heat their pan to 420 F as it's too hot for many foods. Thanks for the reply!
Thank you!
I wanted to buy a surface thermometer like that one, but it is very expansive and not versatile, great for pans but pretty useless otherwise. I got an IR thermometer instead, 40 euros instead of 150 or something like that. It is pretty neat, but you need to calibrate the emissivity in order to get accurate readings, and emissivity changes based on the material.
I tried the same experiment that you did with my IR thermometer and my black carbon steel pan, I got a reading of about 320 C when the Leidenfrost started, based on your results I guess my emissivity setting (95%) was off.
If you have an IR thermometer like mine maybe you could make a video comparing the two, and maybe you could try to figure out emissivity values for stainless steel or carbon steel
That’s a great video idea!
430 - 450 is pretty hot ... I've had SS pans that warped when preheated to those temps.
Are you using tap water or mineralized water?
tap
What model thermometer is that with the wide tip?
It's from ThermoWorks. I linked to it in the video description.
So cool!
What is the ELEVATION where you conducted this experiment ?
Around 180 ft
Would a laser thermometer read low ?
on stainless. Yes, because of the shiny surface of the pan. The device is reads Infrared from a reflected source and not from the pan's surface.
btw, you own a Infrared thermometer. The laser is only a visual cue of where you're aiming.
That's great if I want to have water drops dance around my pan, but it's useless for anything else. Once you put an egg in the pan, the temperature drop will stop the leidenfrost effect when you want to flip your egg. Side A may not stick, but side B will... unless you maintain a screeching 430°, at which point your egg is way overcooked. Egg white coagulates (becomes “set”) between 144° and 149° Fahrenheit. Egg yolks coagulate at a temperature between 149° and 158°.
Try it, you will apparently be flabbergasted at how wrong your theory is. Once your pan is primed you are good to go. Noone claims your pan needs to stay at 430f nor that the leidenfrost effect needs to be in full effect for non stick nor do I see claims about the leidenfrost effect being the only factor in SS non sick properties. ;)
What’s about oil? Does it work at 430 F ?
Thanks a lot for the test. That is a big help. I used ro think 360 F was the best temp. I will try 430 F
I have concluded from this experience that the front-right-corner of your stove needs to be raised, it's not level. How can you eat your meat, if you stove is not level?
Do you talk Celsius or Farenheit?
Fahrenheit
Can you do a video cooking an omelette with a stainless steel pan. That would be more difficult than the fried egg in your previous video.
Potentially. I did one with scrambled eggs, similar concept. How to Cook SCRAMBLED Eggs in Stainless Steel WITHOUT Sticking
ruclips.net/video/dFtkmInrlWw/видео.html
I think that oiled up pan would become non-stick at lower temps. Need to test out...
This happens when steam stops water from sticking to pan, doesnot applicable for oil and frying. The best bet is to lower the cooking temperature and use thick bottom utensil...
I'm not sure I'm convinced the Leidenfrost effect is useful for cooking. Can you do another test cooking an egg at the temperates you measured in this video?
Here’s one - Eggs Sticking to Stainless Steel? The #1 Mistake to Avoid
ruclips.net/video/BYpYK1DV_SU/видео.html
Here’s another - How to Cook SCRAMBLED Eggs in Stainless Steel WITHOUT Sticking
ruclips.net/video/dFtkmInrlWw/видео.html
@@PrudentReviewsI see that's helpful, thanks. To me though, it seems like the leidenfrost effect is more of a quick temperature gauge before cooking the eggs rather than something in effect when actually cooking. Would you say that's correct? I'm guessing the temperature in the pan is dropping from the egg being added preventing the egg from gliding like the water droplets do.
@@reginaldfrank656 it’s more of a general range to aim for that seems to help eggs not stick based on lots of trial and error. I made this video mainly because I got so many questions asking what the exact temperature Leidenfrost happens at. I was curious myself since various websites have different numbers.
Stainless steel only or would carbon steel work the same?
It’s not as important with carbon steel because the seasoning helps prevent sticking
Cool experiment. My prediction was 350 Fahrenheit
But at what altitude are you at?
Isn't it high for cooking though ?