I observed this phenomenon in the early 80's when I started my career as a chef. I didn't know it had a name, but I've been using the technique ever since.
Good video but you're completely wrong about subsequent water droplets evaporating at those "cool" spots. Those spots are not cooler than the rest of the pan. Rather, those spots have residual minerals from the water, which breaks the surface tension of the water.
Damn! I knew it was too good to be true. I live in Texas and it's been HOT this summer. I've been "frying water" for a month now and harvesting the magic white powder to make a cooling lotion and cooling house paint.
Thank you so very much. I've posed this exact question many times over the last few years and only got very pretentious and very snotty responses. "Just do the water drop test and shut up! There's no way to tell you the temperature , no way to tell the temp accurately..." etc. etc. etc. To be clear, I asked for a ballpark temp each time not the exact temp. Again, thank you. Your description and demo of the exact method is absolutely perfect, it will surely get hate from the crowd that love to be worshipped. Have watched you for quite awhile, finally subscribed.
honestly, as someone who has been using pretty much only stainless steel and carbon steel pans for the last 5 years, i would say that doing the water drop test for the pan is quick and easy to do, because not everybody has a thermometer to probe their pan, and it's a foolproof method of making sure your pan was hot enough, (and i doubt anybody actually measured what their pan temp was when that phenomenon occurs) nowadays though, i just feel the heat radiating off of the pan and know when my pan is hot enough so i can skip the water test, but for newcomers to stainless steel cookware, i would much rather recommend the pretty much free water over the instant read thermometer with the flat tip attachment that probably costs $20 i feel like nobody would want to use stainless steel if they had to shell out another tenner or two over the cost of their already more expensive pan investment, plus the inconvenience of measuring the temperature of the pan every time before they cook p.s. i dont believe that s.s. pans are the best and only pans you should have, i do believe you should have 1 stainless steel pan and 1 teflon pan, and that should cover all your bases for pan frying anything you need, from a french omelette, or beautifully runny japanese omurice (both which pretty much require teflon pans), to a ripping hot pan to make a wonderful crust on your skirt steak, or doing a quick stir fry, which a teflon pan will struggle with due to the temperature limit before it degrades
In a way, they're right because a chef isn't setting a temperature for the pan. They do however have access to water and develop a muscle memory for the pans and stoves they use frequently. The actual number is irrelevant and impractical. It's not snobby to tell you how they know, without performing scientific tests.
@@awesomestuff9715 I've started using ss and it was frustrating using the water test. it took so long, dropping and observing, waiting, dropping and observing, waiting. then i'd overheat, the pan and i'd still get some sticking. and the cycle repeats the next use.... I'm one of those who would prob shell out the $10 or two! didn't know there was that flat attachment :p
The droplets might be trapped by the mineral residue left behind by the previous droplets. They seem to assume the shape of the residue and lose surface tension on the bottom of the droplet.
Yes. It has nothing with the alleged lower temperature that just happens to be a perfect circular shape as the previous water droplet. I don't know how this youtuber assumed that that was the right conclusion.
@@maxgluteus4263 random movement due to the Leidenfrost effect. Previous droplet evaporated leaving behind mineral residue making that part of the pan "stickier". Like you walking down the sidewalk and stepping onto a random piece of gum someone else dropped.
Just did this with an infrared thermometer (the kind that shoots a red beam). I cooked eggs without them sticking. Thanks for doing this as directions like "turn to medium" depend on the stove. Now I can turn my burner to 440°F/460°F or use my infrared thermometer. It makes it a lot easier to zero in on the stove setting. Medium on my induction burner is 300° so could take a fair bit of fiddling to figure out the correct temperature.
Great test! Cooking at such temperatures does help to prevent sticking. However I have a problem - most oils start to smoke, because temperature is beyond smoke point.
I wonder about the effect of a higher altitude on the Leidenfrost Effect? Water boils at a lower temperature the higher the altitude, could this effect happen earlier in the heating process?
Good question. I took it all the way up to 480F and it was still working. I didn’t get it to the point where it stopped working but I’ll test it again and follow up.
@@PrudentReviews Thanks! The reason why I ask is because, as you correctly pointed out, there's a myriad of factors affecting the non-stick temp, such as the mass and temp of the food you add in. So it makes more sense to overshoot than undershoot the temp threshold. But with carbon steel pans, there's a serious risk of burning off the seasoning if the temp is too high.
If you mean the Leidenfrost effect at what temperature does it stop working? There is no upper limit really. the pan can literally be heated to red hot and there will still be the Leidenfrost effect when you put drops of water on it. There are videos of steel workers running their hands through a stream of molten steel (2200+ degrees Fahrenheit) unharmed because of the Leidenfrost effect. The primary issue with heating your pan too high is of course you're probably going to burn anything you put into the pan, like oil and food etc. You're also going to damage your pan and make it warp. The waterdrop method of seeing if your pan is preheated enough works pretty well to estimate the temperature since you cannot use one of those infrared thermometers on shiny stainless steel as it will not give you the actual temperature, which is why PR used that exact type of thermometer in the video to measure the temperature of the pan
@@theredbar-cross8515 The leidenfrost trick is strictly for unseasoned stainless steel pans. If you actually do have a well-applied seasoning on your pan, the seasoning itself should do a good enough job of lubricating whatever you're cooking. It's why stainless steel pans aren't really ideal for everything. It's almost impossible to cook, say, a runny yolk egg on it without burning the edges to a crisp. But they're great for steaks where getting to a high searing temperature is important.
It's important to add this note, as I believe it was missed in this video: at 430 degrees, butter, canola, and almost all other refined seed oils will smoke. This is called the smoke point. A bit of it is not bad. But constantly cooking with fats at their smoke point will increase the amount of trans fats in the foods cooked i this environment. Also, cooking at high temperatures like 430 degrees F, will result in browning. This is a tasty side effect, but also has been identified as a carcinogen. Just a couple of considerations when choosing to cook with high temperatures just to avoid food sticking to the pan.
personally, heat the pan up till the leidenfrost effect occurs, add a high smoke point oil (will lower the temp of the pan slightly, i use avocado oil), and then after swirling it to coat the entire bottom of the pan, i add whatever i'm cooking which drops the pan temps even more, and either prevents the oil from reaching the smoke point in the context of avocado oil, or for lower smoke point oils, it lowers the pan temp enough to stop it from smoking; you dont have to keep the pan at the 420f temperature to keep it from sticking, but starting cooking with that temperature keeps things from sticking as much, and then adjust the stove as needed while cooking
@@alanwatts8239 carcinogens doesn't mean that you'll definitely get cancer It just increases your risk of getting cancer There are some chain smokers that don't have cancer even after smoking for decades That doesn't mean that they won't ever get cancer, but it also shows that even constant exposure to carcinogens won't absolutely cause cancer Bbqed foods also tend to contain higher levels of carcinogens
That's pretty hot! Makes me want to use carbon steel or even a teflon-style-coated pan instead, so I don't burn my butter or oil. (or other ingredients, like shallots)
@@i95smuggler i would generally avoid it if you have birds though because the offgassing of teflon is bad for birds (generally safe for humans and other pets though afaik)
Look into ceramic coated pans as an alternative to Teflon. If cared for, these are just as "non-stick", but avoid PFAS chemicals. I think they last longer too.
1:17 more likely reason is that the sharp pointy minerals in those spots interfered with the “hovercraft” like levitation effect of the water droplets, piercing the edges and letting the steam cushion escape.
Thanks for doing this research for us… I might also add that another variable is altitude, which will determine oxygen content of the air in which you are cooking… This will also have an effect on results.
Thanks for the video bro. However, my concern is: at this temperature, it’ll be able the smoke point of many oils. This will cause hydrogenation of the mono- and polyunsaturated fatty acids. I think the food cooked this way won’t be so healthy.
This is brilliant. When steel gets to a high enough temperature, it will louse its magnetic attraction. Please try this test with a magnet and see if it louses its magnetic attraction at the same temp the water starts to dance.
I don't think it does- first of all, there are non-magnetic types of stainless steel, and secondly loss of magnetism occurs at much higher temperatures (well over 1000F).
Are you sure that measuring temperature is the ideal method? My understanding from a deep dive on this years ago was that you really need to measure heat flux. This is awesome by the way!
personally, i would say no, it's a bit of a waste of time when just splashing some water to check if it turns into the little water bubbles is way quicker; though knowing the temp also would give you some general guidelines personally, i dont even have to test it anymore and just do by putting my hand above the pan to feel the heat; much faster than grabbing a heat gun or thermometer but back before i didn't really know what i should expect to feel, i would test with some water to see if the leidenfrost effect was happening, and i would put my hand above to feel what it felt like so i could memorize if or if not the pan was hot enough by sense
Use ghee for high-temp cooking. Very high smoke point, very easy to make at home. Nab an extra pound or two of butter when it’s on sale (unsalted, non-fancy). Cook on medium till it foams, then you can lower the temp a bit and cook till the milk solids collect on the bottom and brown. (Push and foam aside to peek at the pan bottom.) The more brown, the nuttier the flavor -but don’t let it burn. Be conservative when pouring off the oil at the end, so the all the browned butter solids remain behind (they’re delicious, but they’ll burn at high heat; just spread them on toast or eat with a spoon). I tend to keep mine in the fridge, but it keeps quite well on the counter and is much softer/easier to scoop that way.
My wife makes ghee whenever we run out. Its so good on rice. She's Nepali so she makes everything from scratch even butter, yogurt, bread and when I'm lucky rice wine. 😁
The water drop test is actually the only method I've ever used and it's never failed me. Now you will never rush the pan again, I bet! :) Have a good weekend.
honestly, in my experience with stainless steel, you will not be able to make sunny side up eggs without a crispy white, because the proteins only really release from the pan after it cooks enough, so if you want to make runny scrambled eggs (though for this it's less of an issue if you have enough fat), or sunny side up eggs with a nice soft bottom, i would recommend carbon steel or teflon pans over stainless
My main question is whether it's actually the Leidenfrost effect making the pan nonstick, or whether it's just a proxy for the correct temperature needed to make it nonstick, and in that case, whether it can be somewhat lower and still be nonstick.
Get a good set of stainless steel pans. They'll last you decades, they're the most versatile pan type, they're oven safe, and maintenance is minimal(soap and bartenders friend). The investment is worth it. Next get a dropper bottle, fill it with water and keep it next to the stove. I heat for 1.5-2 min on medium high on a gas stove then add drops until I see the effect. The other key is to have easy access high heat oil like canola or avocado oil. Once you achieve the effect, reduce the pan to medium, add oil, swirl the oil in the pan and start cooking immediately.
According to Wikipedia and several other sources, the Leidenfrost point is approximately at 193 °C (379 °F). In my own experiments, this is too low a temp, so I believe your numbers are spot on. I used a laser thermometer and got temperature ranges a little lower than you, but still worked great. The trick is to figure out where the dial should be set on your hob or element, then just set it there anytime you are using stainless steel frying pans. All this being said however, nothing beats my trusty 100 year old cast iron frying pans. Better than Teflon and I'll likely be leaving them to somebody in my will LOL. Great video, and great science! Eric.
When oil is added in this temperature, the oil becomes hotter than the temperature you showed. I have tried the temperature between 150 t 190 degrees fahrenheit and added the oil. the oil became 400degrees when it hit the pan.
That's great if I want to have water drops dance around my pan, but it's useless for anything else. Once you put an egg in the pan, the temperature drop will stop the leidenfrost effect when you want to flip your egg. Side A may not stick, but side B will... unless you maintain a screeching 430°, at which point your egg is way overcooked. Egg white coagulates (becomes “set”) between 144° and 149° Fahrenheit. Egg yolks coagulate at a temperature between 149° and 158°.
This is brilliant. At a high enough temp steel will louse its magnetic attraction. Please test to see if a magnetic will louse its attraction at the same temp a drop of water starts to dance.
@@bradley3549 Oh, I agree that you are right about that. The correction was pointed at the suggestion that "Stainless steel is not magnetic, regardless of temperature", which is definitively false because it indicates that there is no such thing as magnetic stainless steel. Inductive vs reductive logic, etc. But yeah, you are correct 💯
Properly seasoned cast iron do this as well. Properly seasoned means you've taken a polymerizing oil past its smoke point. So Flax oil for example. It shouldn't smoke afterwards.
Well that makes stainless kind of useless to me as I never cook at that high of a temperature. As an example: On my NutriChef 10" Ceramic pan on a Nuwave Induction unit, I use 275 degrees to cook a Bubba Burger perfectly in the timeline suggested on the box. Eggs the same, stir-fry the same. once in a while, I'll play around with higher temperatures but as it's suggested to use low to medium with ceramic, I tend to avoid high temperatures. Using 420 or so seems ridiculous to me unless I'm searing a steak. I've had this pan for about 6 months and it looks just like new and I expect a decent lifespan but if I had to replace it every year, I would. It only cost $45 or so on Amazon. The ease of cleanup is a bit of a shock. A paper towel to soak up any grease and initial wipe down, then a hot water rinse with another wipe with a fresh towel and it's good to go
Thank you! Not an omelette, but the same steps apply: How to Cook SCRAMBLED Eggs in Stainless Steel WITHOUT Sticking ruclips.net/video/dFtkmInrlWw/видео.html
I was just about to ask this - especially since I've never seen quite that type of surface thermometer with the flat disk at the end. I'd love to see this test too.
What about other ingredients? Such as oils, carbohydrate solution, sugar solution and salt solution? Maybe we can understand non stick properties of pan in case of mixed fluids like lemon juice and cooking of potatoes.
Potentially. I did one with scrambled eggs, similar concept. How to Cook SCRAMBLED Eggs in Stainless Steel WITHOUT Sticking ruclips.net/video/dFtkmInrlWw/видео.html
So you’re saying it dosnt matter, if the Heritage steel pan is 5 ply, and the all clad is 3 ply, you’re just measuring the temp, and how the water reacts..I see..nice.
Knowing the temperature is not of practical help because I can't handle messy food and a thermometer at the same time. That is if I owned a thermometer with a flat header like that, I wouldn't eggs all over it. I usually heat the pan as high as I can until or a little short of the oil smoking, and have no problems with eggs sticking.
i agree; it may be useful for a baseline perhaps, but honestly the water test is the quickest and cheapest method of testing to see if your pan is ready, which is why it's recommended by so many people
I have concluded from this experience that the front-right-corner of your stove needs to be raised, it's not level. How can you eat your meat, if you stove is not level?
There are papers testing LF of water stainless combo. The result is largely inconclusive. The takeaway is just cook with whatever setting works for you, and go as low temp as it is allowed with your specific set up.
low smoke point oils are only good for cooking on medium heat pretty much; the 420f temp is only required for preheating the pan, once you're cooking, you dont need to be at that temp anymore and can be much lower; e.g. if you're cooking a steak, start with a high smoke point neutral oil like avocado oil, get a good sear on it, then butter baste it afterwards when the pan isnt at the burning/smoking temperature of butter
the issue is that I can cook my eggs before the pan has heated.. at the current costs on utilities here in the UK I don't feel like spending nearly 3x the gas for my breakfast.. +the heating up time.. so as unhealthy as none stick pans are I can save up the cost of 4 new pans a year on saves resources by not wasting gas on heating up a pan to make it none stick..
I wanted to buy a surface thermometer like that one, but it is very expansive and not versatile, great for pans but pretty useless otherwise. I got an IR thermometer instead, 40 euros instead of 150 or something like that. It is pretty neat, but you need to calibrate the emissivity in order to get accurate readings, and emissivity changes based on the material. I tried the same experiment that you did with my IR thermometer and my black carbon steel pan, I got a reading of about 320 C when the Leidenfrost started, based on your results I guess my emissivity setting (95%) was off. If you have an IR thermometer like mine maybe you could make a video comparing the two, and maybe you could try to figure out emissivity values for stainless steel or carbon steel
I’m going to make a video on this soon. There are many ways but I’m most cases I just scrub with a sponge and dish soap. If there are any stubborn stains or discoloration, I’ll use Bar Keepers Friend.
This happens when steam stops water from sticking to pan, doesnot applicable for oil and frying. The best bet is to lower the cooking temperature and use thick bottom utensil...
use medium low to medium for around 2 minutes to heat the pan evenly and prevent warping on cheaper pans; and even some more expensive pans can warp too; which also gives you some time to do some prep work/finish your prep work before cooking
I'm not sure I'm convinced the Leidenfrost effect is useful for cooking. Can you do another test cooking an egg at the temperates you measured in this video?
@@PrudentReviewsI see that's helpful, thanks. To me though, it seems like the leidenfrost effect is more of a quick temperature gauge before cooking the eggs rather than something in effect when actually cooking. Would you say that's correct? I'm guessing the temperature in the pan is dropping from the egg being added preventing the egg from gliding like the water droplets do.
@@reginaldfrank656 it’s more of a general range to aim for that seems to help eggs not stick based on lots of trial and error. I made this video mainly because I got so many questions asking what the exact temperature Leidenfrost happens at. I was curious myself since various websites have different numbers.
What is the attachment you used on your thermometer? I don’t think I’ve ever seen that before and since I’ve read an infrared thermometer doesn’t work accurately on stainless steel I’d be interested in getting that attachment so I don’t always have to do the water test but could just quickly check the exact temperature
honestly, water test is faster and easier, just go to the sink, wet your hands, flick your hand at the pan to get the water off, and then you got a little bit of water on the pan to check
It's not an attachment. The thermometer I used has a swivel tip designed specifically for flat surfaces. I linked to it in the description of this video if you're interested in getting one.
This effect may make nonstick but that is too much heat to cook an egg properly... Eggs should be cooked at lower heat or they will taste like plastic. This effect is interesting but does not really correlate with good cooking. I suggest using appropriate heat and some healthy types of oil... oil/fat is not such a bad thing and eggs fried at lower temp in oil and butter are not only fine, they taste way better. And I love cooking with stainless steel... They are easy to de-glaze, east to clean, and come back 100% to as-new condition.
this is just a personal opinion, but i love crispy egg whites, so i generally cook my eggs (with browned butter) at the temp right before it smokes/burns, and then i end up with some nice crispy egg whites, and a nice raw yolk scrambled eggs do need a lower temp though or else they end up dry and plasticy as you said though; cook it on the heat, then off the heat while stirring, then back on the heat, off, repeat until the curds are just set and it's perfect
The easiest way to cook eggs is to use a dedicated pan that you have seasoned. Be it stainless, cast iron, or aluminium. Personally I prefer aluminium for the weight and cost.
depends on the oil; avocado oil will be fine, it would be shimmering at that temp something way lower temp like olive oil or butter will absolutely smoke if you leave it on for too long; for those oils, i pour the oil, and basically immediately put the food into the pan and then that keeps it from smoking too much; though i generally avoid starting cooking with those oils/fats
Normally they are, but when measuring reflective surfaces, like some pans are, you'll get inaccurate measurements. The water drop test is something that is cheap and easy and near foolproof, no need to use a thermometer.
@@_aceofspades_ ⬆⬆THIS! Supposed to be 215-220℃ but my laser thermometer wouldn't go above 180-190 - even though I could see it was really really hot after being on the gas for 5-6mins. Tried some water and it immediately balled up...in with the oil & it smoked and discoloured. Dumped it and just went by the LF/water test afterwards....
I observed this phenomenon in the early 80's when I started my career as a chef.
I didn't know it had a name, but I've been using the technique ever since.
Good video but you're completely wrong about subsequent water droplets evaporating at those "cool" spots. Those spots are not cooler than the rest of the pan. Rather, those spots have residual minerals from the water, which breaks the surface tension of the water.
Damn! I knew it was too good to be true. I live in Texas and it's been HOT this summer. I've been "frying water" for a month now and harvesting the magic white powder to make a cooling lotion and cooling house paint.
Both could be true. As he moved the thermometer to the outside it got cooler than the center of the pan.
@@chocofro3 I was making a joke.
The hottest part of the pan is going to be where the most heat is applied.
Rewatch at 1:40 , he confirms his theory.
@@mikemorgan5015 I wasn't replying to you. My comment was to the iu2. The main comment.
Thank you so very much. I've posed this exact question many times over the last few years and only got very pretentious and very snotty responses. "Just do the water drop test and shut up! There's no way to tell you the temperature , no way to tell the temp accurately..." etc. etc. etc.
To be clear, I asked for a ballpark temp each time not the exact temp.
Again, thank you. Your description and demo of the exact method is absolutely perfect, it will surely get hate from the crowd that love to be worshipped.
Have watched you for quite awhile, finally subscribed.
I’ve gotten this question dozens of times. It was time to finally test it and find out. Appreciate the support.
honestly, as someone who has been using pretty much only stainless steel and carbon steel pans for the last 5 years, i would say that doing the water drop test for the pan is quick and easy to do, because not everybody has a thermometer to probe their pan, and it's a foolproof method of making sure your pan was hot enough, (and i doubt anybody actually measured what their pan temp was when that phenomenon occurs)
nowadays though, i just feel the heat radiating off of the pan and know when my pan is hot enough so i can skip the water test, but for newcomers to stainless steel cookware, i would much rather recommend the pretty much free water over the instant read thermometer with the flat tip attachment that probably costs $20
i feel like nobody would want to use stainless steel if they had to shell out another tenner or two over the cost of their already more expensive pan investment, plus the inconvenience of measuring the temperature of the pan every time before they cook
p.s. i dont believe that s.s. pans are the best and only pans you should have, i do believe you should have 1 stainless steel pan and 1 teflon pan, and that should cover all your bases for pan frying anything you need, from a french omelette, or beautifully runny japanese omurice (both which pretty much require teflon pans), to a ripping hot pan to make a wonderful crust on your skirt steak, or doing a quick stir fry, which a teflon pan will struggle with due to the temperature limit before it degrades
In a way, they're right because a chef isn't setting a temperature for the pan. They do however have access to water and develop a muscle memory for the pans and stoves they use frequently. The actual number is irrelevant and impractical. It's not snobby to tell you how they know, without performing scientific tests.
@@awesomestuff9715 I've started using ss and it was frustrating using the water test. it took so long, dropping and observing, waiting, dropping and observing, waiting. then i'd overheat, the pan and i'd still get some sticking. and the cycle repeats the next use.... I'm one of those who would prob shell out the $10 or two! didn't know there was that flat attachment :p
@@awesomestuff9715 my grand kid's kids will be using my cast iron and stainless pans. One piece pans are end all be all for me. Same with knives.
Interesting! I'll try 430F on my breville control freak next time when cooking with stainless steel.
The droplets might be trapped by the mineral residue left behind by the previous droplets. They seem to assume the shape of the residue and lose surface tension on the bottom of the droplet.
Probably both!
My thoughts exactly. I don't think that droplets cooling the surface are even a factor.
Yes. It has nothing with the alleged lower temperature that just happens to be a perfect circular shape as the previous water droplet. I don't know how this youtuber assumed that that was the right conclusion.
How does a droplet know there are mineral residue somewhere on the pan? And figure out the path to get there?
@@maxgluteus4263 random movement due to the Leidenfrost effect. Previous droplet evaporated leaving behind mineral residue making that part of the pan "stickier". Like you walking down the sidewalk and stepping onto a random piece of gum someone else dropped.
This is good knowledge. An absolute, definitive test finally.
That is super freaking hot! Never would have expected that
It's about medium-high on a stove top so not that hot. great for certain meats but veggies and eggs would burn.
Just did this with an infrared thermometer (the kind that shoots a red beam). I cooked eggs without them sticking. Thanks for doing this as directions like "turn to medium" depend on the stove. Now I can turn my burner to 440°F/460°F or use my infrared thermometer. It makes it a lot easier to zero in on the stove setting. Medium on my induction burner is 300° so could take a fair bit of fiddling to figure out the correct temperature.
Great test! Cooking at such temperatures does help to prevent sticking. However I have a problem - most oils start to smoke, because temperature is beyond smoke point.
You only need to reach the target temperature for the pan when when you begin pouring the oil. After that, you can lower the heat
Use avocado oil. It's healthy and has the highest smoke point.
@@rhannah7873Yes, I think the smoke point is around 500°
@@_DeepGroove_why? Then the oil will stick in the pan.
Passing the smoke point of most oils polymerization effect which becomes a non stick layer
Amazing testing! Love this
Thank you!
I wonder about the effect of a higher altitude on the Leidenfrost Effect? Water boils at a lower temperature the higher the altitude, could this effect happen earlier in the heating process?
Yes, I would expect that to be the case.
At what temperature does it stop working? What temperature is too high?
Good question. I took it all the way up to 480F and it was still working. I didn’t get it to the point where it stopped working but I’ll test it again and follow up.
@@PrudentReviews Thanks!
The reason why I ask is because, as you correctly pointed out, there's a myriad of factors affecting the non-stick temp, such as the mass and temp of the food you add in. So it makes more sense to overshoot than undershoot the temp threshold.
But with carbon steel pans, there's a serious risk of burning off the seasoning if the temp is too high.
If you mean the Leidenfrost effect at what temperature does it stop working? There is no upper limit really. the pan can literally be heated to red hot and there will still be the Leidenfrost effect when you put drops of water on it. There are videos of steel workers running their hands through a stream of molten steel (2200+ degrees Fahrenheit) unharmed because of the Leidenfrost effect.
The primary issue with heating your pan too high is of course you're probably going to burn anything you put into the pan, like oil and food etc. You're also going to damage your pan and make it warp.
The waterdrop method of seeing if your pan is preheated enough works pretty well to estimate the temperature since you cannot use one of those infrared thermometers on shiny stainless steel as it will not give you the actual temperature, which is why PR used that exact type of thermometer in the video to measure the temperature of the pan
@@theredbar-cross8515
The leidenfrost trick is strictly for unseasoned stainless steel pans.
If you actually do have a well-applied seasoning on your pan, the seasoning itself should do a good enough job of lubricating whatever you're cooking. It's why stainless steel pans aren't really ideal for everything. It's almost impossible to cook, say, a runny yolk egg on it without burning the edges to a crisp. But they're great for steaks where getting to a high searing temperature is important.
If the pan is liquid steel you’ve gone too far
It's important to add this note, as I believe it was missed in this video: at 430 degrees, butter, canola, and almost all other refined seed oils will smoke. This is called the smoke point. A bit of it is not bad. But constantly cooking with fats at their smoke point will increase the amount of trans fats in the foods cooked i this environment. Also, cooking at high temperatures like 430 degrees F, will result in browning. This is a tasty side effect, but also has been identified as a carcinogen. Just a couple of considerations when choosing to cook with high temperatures just to avoid food sticking to the pan.
personally, heat the pan up till the leidenfrost effect occurs, add a high smoke point oil (will lower the temp of the pan slightly, i use avocado oil), and then after swirling it to coat the entire bottom of the pan, i add whatever i'm cooking which drops the pan temps even more, and either prevents the oil from reaching the smoke point in the context of avocado oil, or for lower smoke point oils, it lowers the pan temp enough to stop it from smoking; you dont have to keep the pan at the 420f temperature to keep it from sticking, but starting cooking with that temperature keeps things from sticking as much, and then adjust the stove as needed while cooking
This is what I do also, I explain further in this video ruclips.net/video/BYpYK1DV_SU/видео.htmlsi=EQFTa2aR7xN1lEP7
@@awesomestuff9715this is exactly the method used for carbon steel woks
It's a wonder not everyone has cancer if you take into account everything that is considered a carcinogen.
@@alanwatts8239 carcinogens doesn't mean that you'll definitely get cancer
It just increases your risk of getting cancer
There are some chain smokers that don't have cancer even after smoking for decades
That doesn't mean that they won't ever get cancer, but it also shows that even constant exposure to carcinogens won't absolutely cause cancer
Bbqed foods also tend to contain higher levels of carcinogens
That's pretty hot! Makes me want to use carbon steel or even a teflon-style-coated pan instead, so I don't burn my butter or oil. (or other ingredients, like shallots)
Never use Teflon that high, all the nasty chemicals in Teflon are released way before that. I don't use Teflon at all. It's really toxic
Yea I agree!
@@samagee2211 Teflon is not toxic if you use medium heat. The highest heat for Teflon use should be 300°.
@@i95smuggler i would generally avoid it if you have birds though because the offgassing of teflon is bad for birds (generally safe for humans and other pets though afaik)
Look into ceramic coated pans as an alternative to Teflon. If cared for, these are just as "non-stick", but avoid PFAS chemicals. I think they last longer too.
Nice one! I'll keep my thermometer ready. 220 degrees at the center. Thanks.
Defiantly not going to work for anything that needs a “low and slow” approach. 420 is toasty. 😂 Nature has a sense of humor!
Great work always wondered about this.
Thank you
1:17 more likely reason is that the sharp pointy minerals in those spots interfered with the “hovercraft” like levitation effect of the water droplets, piercing the edges and letting the steam cushion escape.
Thanks for doing this research for us… I might also add that another variable is altitude, which will determine oxygen content of the air in which you are cooking… This will also have an effect on results.
Thanks a lot for the test. That is a big help. I used ro think 360 F was the best temp. I will try 430 F
Thanks for the video bro. However, my concern is: at this temperature, it’ll be able the smoke point of many oils. This will cause hydrogenation of the mono- and polyunsaturated fatty acids. I think the food cooked this way won’t be so healthy.
This is brilliant.
When steel gets to a high enough temperature, it will louse its magnetic attraction.
Please try this test with a magnet and see if it louses its magnetic attraction at the same temp the water starts to dance.
I don't think it does- first of all, there are non-magnetic types of stainless steel, and secondly loss of magnetism occurs at much higher temperatures (well over 1000F).
@@guzimirHR thank you for the quick response.
It is not because of colder points but because of contaminated points possibly by minerals from the water.
Are you sure that measuring temperature is the ideal method? My understanding from a deep dive on this years ago was that you really need to measure heat flux.
This is awesome by the way!
personally, i would say no, it's a bit of a waste of time when just splashing some water to check if it turns into the little water bubbles is way quicker; though knowing the temp also would give you some general guidelines
personally, i dont even have to test it anymore and just do by putting my hand above the pan to feel the heat; much faster than grabbing a heat gun or thermometer
but back before i didn't really know what i should expect to feel, i would test with some water to see if the leidenfrost effect was happening, and i would put my hand above to feel what it felt like so i could memorize if or if not the pan was hot enough by sense
great video, i always thought it was so cool seeing water bead up on a pan and this was informative
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for your time testing and sharing!
This is incredible research
Very helpful metric. Thanks for sharing the test results.
Very enjoyable video, Andrew.
Thank you!!
good thinking! good job! you've made a name for yourself with this... overall, great video!!!
Thank you so much!
Use ghee for high-temp cooking. Very high smoke point, very easy to make at home.
Nab an extra pound or two of butter when it’s on sale (unsalted, non-fancy). Cook on medium till it foams, then you can lower the temp a bit and cook till the milk solids collect on the bottom and brown. (Push and foam aside to peek at the pan bottom.) The more brown, the nuttier the flavor -but don’t let it burn.
Be conservative when pouring off the oil at the end, so the all the browned butter solids remain behind (they’re delicious, but they’ll burn at high heat; just spread them on toast or eat with a spoon). I tend to keep mine in the fridge, but it keeps quite well on the counter and is much softer/easier to scoop that way.
My wife makes ghee whenever we run out. Its so good on rice. She's Nepali so she makes everything from scratch even butter, yogurt, bread and when I'm lucky rice wine. 😁
oil is cheaper, healthier and easier to use.
ghee is better for flavor of course, but oil is easier to just cook with
You have such a great channel
Thank you so much
This explains why my egg caught tonight, I was thinking that I hadn't allowed the frypan to get hot enough. Now I know I didn't.
The water drop test is actually the only method I've ever used and it's never failed me.
Now you will never rush the pan again, I bet! :)
Have a good weekend.
honestly, in my experience with stainless steel, you will not be able to make sunny side up eggs without a crispy white, because the proteins only really release from the pan after it cooks enough, so if you want to make runny scrambled eggs (though for this it's less of an issue if you have enough fat), or sunny side up eggs with a nice soft bottom, i would recommend carbon steel or teflon pans over stainless
My main question is whether it's actually the Leidenfrost effect making the pan nonstick, or whether it's just a proxy for the correct temperature needed to make it nonstick, and in that case, whether it can be somewhat lower and still be nonstick.
Get a good set of stainless steel pans. They'll last you decades, they're the most versatile pan type, they're oven safe, and maintenance is minimal(soap and bartenders friend). The investment is worth it. Next get a dropper bottle, fill it with water and keep it next to the stove. I heat for 1.5-2 min on medium high on a gas stove then add drops until I see the effect. The other key is to have easy access high heat oil like canola or avocado oil. Once you achieve the effect, reduce the pan to medium, add oil, swirl the oil in the pan and start cooking immediately.
According to Wikipedia and several other sources, the Leidenfrost point is approximately at 193 °C (379 °F). In my own experiments, this is too low a temp, so I believe your numbers are spot on. I used a laser thermometer and got temperature ranges a little lower than you, but still worked great. The trick is to figure out where the dial should be set on your hob or element, then just set it there anytime you are using stainless steel frying pans. All this being said however, nothing beats my trusty 100 year old cast iron frying pans. Better than Teflon and I'll likely be leaving them to somebody in my will LOL. Great video, and great science! Eric.
When oil is added in this temperature, the oil becomes hotter than the temperature you showed. I have tried the temperature between 150 t 190 degrees fahrenheit and added the oil. the oil became 400degrees when it hit the pan.
That's great if I want to have water drops dance around my pan, but it's useless for anything else. Once you put an egg in the pan, the temperature drop will stop the leidenfrost effect when you want to flip your egg. Side A may not stick, but side B will... unless you maintain a screeching 430°, at which point your egg is way overcooked. Egg white coagulates (becomes “set”) between 144° and 149° Fahrenheit. Egg yolks coagulate at a temperature between 149° and 158°.
This is brilliant.
At a high enough temp steel will louse its magnetic attraction.
Please test to see if a magnetic will louse its attraction at the same temp a drop of water starts to dance.
Stainless steel is not magnetic, regardless of temperature
@@juancaballero1173 Are you sure about that Sparky?
@@juancaballero1173 This is not true and is a strange idea to have. What gave you this notion?
@@quincywilliams9860 Both of you are half right. Some stainless steel is magnetic, and some stainless steel is not.
@@bradley3549 Oh, I agree that you are right about that. The correction was pointed at the suggestion that "Stainless steel is not magnetic, regardless of temperature", which is definitively false because it indicates that there is no such thing as magnetic stainless steel. Inductive vs reductive logic, etc. But yeah, you are correct 💯
This was a fun video to watch. Thank you
Will you do a video putting theory into practice?
Properly seasoned cast iron do this as well. Properly seasoned means you've taken a polymerizing oil past its smoke point. So Flax oil for example. It shouldn't smoke afterwards.
Well that makes stainless kind of useless to me as I never cook at that high of a temperature.
As an example:
On my NutriChef 10" Ceramic pan on a Nuwave Induction unit, I use 275 degrees to cook a Bubba Burger perfectly in the timeline suggested on the box. Eggs the same, stir-fry the same. once in a while, I'll play around with higher temperatures but as it's suggested to use low to medium with ceramic, I tend to avoid high temperatures. Using 420 or so seems ridiculous to me unless I'm searing a steak.
I've had this pan for about 6 months and it looks just like new and I expect a decent lifespan but if I had to replace it every year, I would. It only cost $45 or so on Amazon. The ease of cleanup is a bit of a shock. A paper towel to soak up any grease and initial wipe down, then a hot water rinse with another wipe with a fresh towel and it's good to go
ah-haaaaa! thank ya!! that's cool! this is good info. i never knew.
It would be nice if you display the temperature in Celsius.
great video! could you make one on how to cook an omelette on a stainless steel pan? ie foods that use a temp below 430? thank you 🙂
Thank you! Not an omelette, but the same steps apply:
How to Cook SCRAMBLED Eggs in Stainless Steel WITHOUT Sticking
ruclips.net/video/dFtkmInrlWw/видео.html
Can you do a comparison of surface thermometers? Instant read Thermapro vs Testo vs infra red vs a cheap cuisinart griddle thermometer.
I was just about to ask this - especially since I've never seen quite that type of surface thermometer with the flat disk at the end. I'd love to see this test too.
Great idea
What would you be most interested in seeing? Which is more accurate?
@@PrudentReviews Accuracy vs. cost.
@@PrudentReviews reactivity as well. How quickly it can take a reading.
What about other ingredients? Such as oils, carbohydrate solution, sugar solution and salt solution? Maybe we can understand non stick properties of pan in case of mixed fluids like lemon juice and cooking of potatoes.
Cool experiment. My prediction was 350 Fahrenheit
I'm curious, how long did it take to heat up the pans to get this effect to work?
Vital info! Thanks a lot
So cool!
Can you do a video cooking an omelette with a stainless steel pan. That would be more difficult than the fried egg in your previous video.
Potentially. I did one with scrambled eggs, similar concept. How to Cook SCRAMBLED Eggs in Stainless Steel WITHOUT Sticking
ruclips.net/video/dFtkmInrlWw/видео.html
So you’re saying it dosnt matter, if the Heritage steel pan is 5 ply, and the all clad is 3 ply, you’re just measuring the temp, and how the water reacts..I see..nice.
Knowing the temperature is not of practical help because I can't handle messy food and a thermometer at the same time. That is if I owned a thermometer with a flat header like that, I wouldn't eggs all over it. I usually heat the pan as high as I can until or a little short of the oil smoking, and have no problems with eggs sticking.
i agree; it may be useful for a baseline perhaps, but honestly the water test is the quickest and cheapest method of testing to see if your pan is ready, which is why it's recommended by so many people
This is content for me! (already a subscriber)
Thank you!!
I have concluded from this experience that the front-right-corner of your stove needs to be raised, it's not level. How can you eat your meat, if you stove is not level?
So this means you should use oil with a higher flash point like avocado oil? 420 seems much hotter than what EVOO or butter can handle.
There are papers testing LF of water stainless combo. The result is largely inconclusive.
The takeaway is just cook with whatever setting works for you, and go as low temp as it is allowed with your specific set up.
low smoke point oils are only good for cooking on medium heat pretty much; the 420f temp is only required for preheating the pan, once you're cooking, you dont need to be at that temp anymore and can be much lower; e.g. if you're cooking a steak, start with a high smoke point neutral oil like avocado oil, get a good sear on it, then butter baste it afterwards when the pan isnt at the burning/smoking temperature of butter
I think that oiled up pan would become non-stick at lower temps. Need to test out...
I wonder does your altitude matter? If so what elevation did you run your test?
Thank you!
Did you factor in the mineral content of your water?
I know they differ but what setting did you have to crank the stove up to to achieve 450 degrees?
the issue is that I can cook my eggs before the pan has heated..
at the current costs on utilities here in the UK I don't feel like spending nearly 3x the gas for my breakfast.. +the heating up time..
so as unhealthy as none stick pans are I can save up the cost of 4 new pans a year on saves resources by not wasting gas on heating up a pan to make it none stick..
What brand of thermometer do you use? I can only find laser thermometers on Amazon, not this type you are using here.
It’s the ThermoWorks Pro Surface Thermapen
@@PrudentReviews thanks!
FYI - I linked to the exact one in the video description
@@PrudentReviews oh whoops, I did look, but missed it 🙈
@@PalladiumOne no worries! I forgot to link to it earlier. I just added it.
It may also vary with altitude!
Does it work with a dry carbon steel pan as well?
This was great - Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
What about volcanoes? If this effect is happening in-reverse using soil moisture, can we modify the ground to channel flow direction?
Does having a softened water change the tempature? I know salted butter burns faster than unsalted.
I wanted to buy a surface thermometer like that one, but it is very expansive and not versatile, great for pans but pretty useless otherwise. I got an IR thermometer instead, 40 euros instead of 150 or something like that. It is pretty neat, but you need to calibrate the emissivity in order to get accurate readings, and emissivity changes based on the material.
I tried the same experiment that you did with my IR thermometer and my black carbon steel pan, I got a reading of about 320 C when the Leidenfrost started, based on your results I guess my emissivity setting (95%) was off.
If you have an IR thermometer like mine maybe you could make a video comparing the two, and maybe you could try to figure out emissivity values for stainless steel or carbon steel
That’s a great video idea!
What is the best way to clean a stainless steel pan? Should you soften the brown areas by soaking them in water?
I’m going to make a video on this soon. There are many ways but I’m most cases I just scrub with a sponge and dish soap. If there are any stubborn stains or discoloration, I’ll use Bar Keepers Friend.
@@PrudentReviews thanks.
Can you do a video on cleaver knives please, best for your bucks type of thing
This happens when steam stops water from sticking to pan, doesnot applicable for oil and frying. The best bet is to lower the cooking temperature and use thick bottom utensil...
Now I need to figure out what level to put on a burner to get to that temp and I'll be golden..
use medium low to medium for around 2 minutes to heat the pan evenly and prevent warping on cheaper pans; and even some more expensive pans can warp too; which also gives you some time to do some prep work/finish your prep work before cooking
@@awesomestuff9715 I give it a full 5 min, never any sticking problems.
What is the ELEVATION where you conducted this experiment ?
Around 180 ft
After the dry pan reaches that temperature, whats next? Pour in cold oil and put in the food immediately?
Depends what you’re cooking. These are the steps for eggs:
Eggs Sticking to Stainless Steel? The #1 Mistake to Avoid
ruclips.net/video/BYpYK1DV_SU/видео.html
I'm not sure I'm convinced the Leidenfrost effect is useful for cooking. Can you do another test cooking an egg at the temperates you measured in this video?
Here’s one - Eggs Sticking to Stainless Steel? The #1 Mistake to Avoid
ruclips.net/video/BYpYK1DV_SU/видео.html
Here’s another - How to Cook SCRAMBLED Eggs in Stainless Steel WITHOUT Sticking
ruclips.net/video/dFtkmInrlWw/видео.html
@@PrudentReviewsI see that's helpful, thanks. To me though, it seems like the leidenfrost effect is more of a quick temperature gauge before cooking the eggs rather than something in effect when actually cooking. Would you say that's correct? I'm guessing the temperature in the pan is dropping from the egg being added preventing the egg from gliding like the water droplets do.
@@reginaldfrank656 it’s more of a general range to aim for that seems to help eggs not stick based on lots of trial and error. I made this video mainly because I got so many questions asking what the exact temperature Leidenfrost happens at. I was curious myself since various websites have different numbers.
What is the attachment you used on your thermometer? I don’t think I’ve ever seen that before and since I’ve read an infrared thermometer doesn’t work accurately on stainless steel I’d be interested in getting that attachment so I don’t always have to do the water test but could just quickly check the exact temperature
I also would like to know how to obtain it. The thermometer looks like a ThermoWorks, but the disk part is not on their web site.
@@DraftCider ThermoWorks Pro-Surface Thermapen, found via Google Lens
honestly, water test is faster and easier, just go to the sink, wet your hands, flick your hand at the pan to get the water off, and then you got a little bit of water on the pan to check
It's not an attachment. The thermometer I used has a swivel tip designed specifically for flat surfaces. I linked to it in the description of this video if you're interested in getting one.
Science!
This effect may make nonstick but that is too much heat to cook an egg properly... Eggs should be cooked at lower heat or they will taste like plastic. This effect is interesting but does not really correlate with good cooking. I suggest using appropriate heat and some healthy types of oil... oil/fat is not such a bad thing and eggs fried at lower temp in oil and butter are not only fine, they taste way better.
And I love cooking with stainless steel... They are easy to de-glaze, east to clean, and come back 100% to as-new condition.
this is just a personal opinion, but i love crispy egg whites, so i generally cook my eggs (with browned butter) at the temp right before it smokes/burns, and then i end up with some nice crispy egg whites, and a nice raw yolk
scrambled eggs do need a lower temp though or else they end up dry and plasticy as you said though; cook it on the heat, then off the heat while stirring, then back on the heat, off, repeat until the curds are just set and it's perfect
Nah i cook my eggs high and fast and they taste great and are moist
Looks like you warped all your pans?
So, to cook my food I have to cook it at the same temperature that paper flashes to fire?
But at what altitude are you at?
Isn't it high for cooking though ?
good info
The easiest way to cook eggs is to use a dedicated pan that you have seasoned. Be it stainless, cast iron, or aluminium. Personally I prefer aluminium for the weight and cost.
Is it safe to add cooking oil when the pan is that hot? It won't burn, fume?
depends on the oil; avocado oil will be fine, it would be shimmering at that temp
something way lower temp like olive oil or butter will absolutely smoke if you leave it on for too long; for those oils, i pour the oil, and basically immediately put the food into the pan and then that keeps it from smoking too much; though i generally avoid starting cooking with those oils/fats
I wanted to cook eggs, now I have a master's in Physics.
Where did you get that thermometer with the flat tip? 😀
Thermoworks Pro-Surface
The thermometer looks like a ThermoWorks, but the disk part is not on their web site.
@@DraftCider it’s on there, I found it. It’s called the pro surface thermapen. 😀
It's from ThermoWorks. I linked to the exact one I used in the description of this video if you're interested in getting one.
Something is wrong with that temperature or pan. I get the effect at around 93 degrees C. That is around 200 degrees F.
What’s about oil? Does it work at 430 F ?
Does this mean that no oil is needed at these temps?
You still meet some oil, especially for eggs
which type of thermometer do you use which such sensor for flat surface. I can recognize perhaps thermapen but did not find this type of sensor.
The thermometer looks like a ThermoWorks, but the disk part is not on their web site.
Thermoworks pro-surface thermapen. on sale rn!
I linked to it in the description
I use a laser thermometer.
Very accurate 👍🏽
Normally they are, but when measuring reflective surfaces, like some pans are, you'll get inaccurate measurements. The water drop test is something that is cheap and easy and near foolproof, no need to use a thermometer.
@@_aceofspades_ ⬆⬆THIS! Supposed to be 215-220℃ but my laser thermometer wouldn't go above 180-190 - even though I could see it was really really hot after being on the gas for 5-6mins. Tried some water and it immediately balled up...in with the oil & it smoked and discoloured. Dumped it and just went by the LF/water test afterwards....
This is called “knowing how to cook”. Non stick is for those who have not invested the time to get a feel for oh to cook
Can't believe Ray William Johnson's brother is teaching us about pans
😂 video production runs in the family
430F seems insanely hot. Isn't 500F the temp to clean your oven??!!
Do you talk Celsius or Farenheit?
Fahrenheit
Does carbon steel pan has the same thing? Even with a well seasoned pan?
You don't need to get a carbon steel as hot because the seasoned surface is less prone to sticking.