The best explanation I have come across is basically "because they can't find a reason to view it as authentic". This is nicely outlined in Allan Moore's seminal 2002 article, "Authenticity as Authentication", in which he basically argues that in order for listeners to value musicians and their work, they must perceive them/it to be 1) sincere, 2) relatable, and/or 3) humble/conversant with the tradition that they purport/it purports to represent. How sincere, relatable, and grounded do most jazz musicians seem to those who didn't grow up around jazz music and jazz musicians? It's also worth bearing in mind that the argument that "people would enjoy jazz if they just took the time to understand it" actually highlights the problem as much as it poses the solution: why should anyone other than aspiring jazz musicians seek to authenticate a music and a music scene that presents such a high bar for entry, and that frequently denigrates its own more accessible offerings (and, often, the popular music that developed in tandem with it)?
For me, the only jazz that fits this description is 'free' jazz, which reminds me of 'classical' music post 1920...I simply can't distinguish a free jazz composition from a large collection of random notes. That's NOT relatable (for me), nor sincere (for me) and I have NO idea what it's grounded in.
Honestly, that would apply to almost any musical style. With anything that isn't pop or what's normally played on the radio, it happens. Heavier rock styles are almost impossible to listen to for those not accustomed to them. I simply believe there are many false prejudices regarding jazz musicians. I play it simply because it's what I like; I don't know about others, but even if I try, they tire me out quickly.
It's because we have gotten to the point I suppose where everything has been 'said and done' with respect to jazz music. I don't know, I'm just offering my opinion as to why it's like you say it is; and I agree with you, when you say jazz certainly seems to have less "swing" to it. I suppose it's due to the music having evolved(or is it de-volved?)over the last fifty years to the point where it has become more cerebral and less melodic-and less able to be comprehended by the masses, and as a result, having less of that which appeals to people like you and I; and I appreciate your comments-you've stated in very succinct terms what has become of jazz, which is an indictment of where humanity has come-or what it has come to. 5-10-23.
You know how your grandmother reacts(or would react) to Slayer played at an excessive volume? That's a good analogy for how I feel about "smooth" jazz.
I come at it from a different angle; jazz raided and burned my village when I was a child. So I HATE jazz and one day I will take my revenge upon it all.
Noodling. Directionless. Tends toward muzak. Pretentious. Elitist. Outmoded. Allergic to strong emotion (after 1950). Now I'll listen to your reasons and compare them with mine.
Miles Davis, Barney Kessel and the Poll winners, Wes Montgomery all made Jazz accessible to none musicians along with Pat Martino. They did it by eschewing the Blizzard of notes look at me school of Jazz. Big Band Jazz is also superb when performed live. Jazz does tend to be musicians music and for none musicians many just do not get it.
Side note: it's hard enough to get a steady gig for a quartet, or even a trio. Big band is GREAT fun, but keeping one together is for the larger cities. I play with an 11-piece group, we all get a copy of the C Lead Sheet, do your own transpose and background harmonies... No rehearsal needed, just ears and luck. Usually sounds pretty good, but there are days...
There can be many reasons why people hate, or simply don’t like jazz. But I think a more useful point is to think in terms of the fundamental obstacle to liking jazz, and quite simply that obstacle is the inability to “hear it “. perhaps more so than any other musical, idiom, jazz improvisation, is based on a very specific language. We can go into detail and try to analyze the grammar and syntax of that language, and that is surely something people do when studying jazz improvisation. But the bottom line is that the improvised line is spoken in this language, and the politically incorrect truth is that most people simply can’t understand it. In this sense the problem is a lot like not being able to enjoy Greek poetry if one doesn’t speak Greek. Moreover, for most people being able to hear jazz and understand that language is some thing that takes thousands of hours of exposure. I still remember as a teenager listening to Tenor Madness. at the time I was fairly new to Bebop, and I distinctly really remember being unable to tell the difference between Sonny Rollins and John Coltrane. today when I listen to Tenor Madness, it’s hard for me to believe that I could not hear the difference between such different improvisers. And the reason that time I couldn’t at that time is simply that I had a limited understanding of modern jazz language. And by the way, I emphasize “modern jazz “here because it’s with the advent of bebop/modern jazz, that this language reaches a level of maturity and sophistication that’s simply impossible to understand without exposure. What’s interesting is that this is somewhat less the case with her earlier just styles. I find that typically such styles as Dixieland and swing are easier to assimilate absent the kind of exposure that the typical consumer of Bebop has. It’s also important to understand that understanding the language here does not mean being able to analyze it in some formal sense, any more than my understanding of English means that I can analyze the grammar. My understanding of English is a purely subjective - but very definite - experience where the words simply make sense and communicate meaning to me. Understanding the improvise line is similar: you hear it and you “get it”. The reason I say this is politically incorrect is that if you tell most people who don’t like Jazz AND have little exposure to jazz, that they likely can’t hear what’s going on, you’ll be met with indignation. I’ve seen many videos to try to explain how to listen to jazz, explaining what’s going on, etc. But unfortunately, without hours and hours of exposure and preferably this occurring at an early age, the situation is relatively hopeless. It’s no coincidence that most people who enjoy this music were exposed to it growing up in their homes or at least at an early age and some other context. The other interesting thing about this is that having musical ability or a good year is not enough. My sister plays piano and has an excellent ear for harmony and melody. Growing up, however, she listened exclusively to classical music, while I listen to both classical music and jazz. As an adult, she is an extensive listener to Romantic classical music, and really knows her stuff. She catches nuances in performances, is able to compare different works, and comment on them with deep aesthetic understanding. About 10 years ago she decided she wanted to learn to play jazz piano. Naturally, I began giving her stuff to listen to. What’s so interesting was her initial eactions to Charlie Parker. Now this is someone with extensive familiarity with the likes of Beethoven list, Rachmaninov, Chopin, Mozart, etc., but as she now explains to her, Charlie Parker at that time sounded incomprehensible, chacophonous ,verging on atonal. Now 10 years later and after 1000s of hours of listening, she now hears bird and bebop very differently. And, she is also amazed at how entirely incomprehensible it initially sounded to her. She explaines her experience now, as much like being able to understand a language that was previously was incomprehensible to her. Joseph P Cannavo
I have never seen that arrogance of saying "if you don't like my favourite genre then you don't understand it" in any other musical genre. The more I understand about chords, scales and music theory in general the more I understand why I don't like jazz. Jazz is musical nihilism, it's random stuff, it's pedantic, period. It is like post-modern "art". That is how I see it and no one insulting me or trying to intimidate me is going to make me change my thoughts on that. Why can you, jazz fanboys, get over the fact that many people understand music theory and still hate jazz? Why do you need to feel superior to people who dislike the genre you like? Further, since when understanding music theory is required to enjoy music? Nobody needs to "understand the language" of a rock, pop, folk, or classical music theme to enjoy it. Because those genres are well composed. They make sense. Stop imposing your random post-modern nihilistic music on others.
@@asamiyashin444 I agree partly what you said but you also grouped ALL jazz in post modern art, which is highly reductive. I myself gravitate toward old swing, big band, and early jazz. Not all jazz is atonal and post modern like what you are insinuating.
I think a lot of people who say they hate jazz have only heard a certain type of vacuous music often passed off as jazz, with soloists sleepily noodling over a funky backbeat. And they're absolutely right to hate on that crap. Unfortunately their attitude also means they'll never hear a single note by Bird, or Tatum, or Coltrane.
The problem with your theory is that those who dislike Coltrane (far out,) Bird or Diz (too many notes) also dislike smooth jazz. But I have a LOT of friends, acquaintances and other players who enjoy the sub-genre. It's not 'jazz' which I consider a combination of spiritual protest, it's "Sinatra-pop for the 80s and on.. If you can call Sinatra Jazz, then Kenny G makes the cut. If not, then I agree with you...😎
Couldn't it be that we dislike jazz because we don't like how it sounds? Could it be that we dislike the abuse of chromatic notes, chords out of key, and so on? Why do you jazz fanboys have that difficulty understanding that there are people who have many reasons to hate the genre?
Ah, this is such a deep question. Firstly, the term jazz really doesn't mean anything today other than to us jazz musicians. Funk is often referred to as jazz, smooth jazz, traditional swing jazz, jazz rock, pop jazz, etc. So now days when somebody says jazz, who knows what they are talking about. But I can say that the general populace doesn't relate to "jazz" because jazz doesn't have the strong rock feel. Jazz is quite ethereal so the non-musician can't relate to it. If the beat doesn't go boom boom boom boom (we live in a 4/4 society you know!) there's nothing for the non-musician to latch onto. You know this reminds me of a time many years ago when I was learning how to solo on Giant Steps. My son, at the time, was in his early 20's and is/still is a great drummer. I was explaining how incredible Giant Steps was and how challenging it is to solo over. He looked at me and said 'what's the big deal, it's just another swing tune". From his perspective yes but not to us as guitar players. So this reminds me of your question ...why people really hate jazz? For the same reason my son said what he said....it all sounds the same, not to mention that people can't understand the sophistication of the art form. Finally, when I listen to a rock album, every tune is a different color, a different vibe. On the other hand when I listen to a jazz album, I know pretty much what every tune on the album is going to sound like. To us jazz musicians we hear all of the subtleties and every tune sounds unique to us but not to the general music listener.
It seems to me that it is a nature/ nurture argument. Jazz is not in anyone’s nature, you have be in the right environment. I grew up in Southern California in the ‘70’s where rock was king. But little did I know that a lot musicians I listened to were jazz musicians that played rock. Then I discovered KKGO and a whole new world opened up. I could go 15 min down the road to Disneyland and see Maynard Furguson, Pieces of a Dream, Allan Holdsworth and Buddy Rich. As an adult, we moved to North Carolina where most everyone I’ve met listens to both kinds of music: country & western. If I grew up here, I doubt I would’ve ever listened to, let alone like, jazz.
had this conversation with a friend earlier this week. We were talking about how originally we were turned off by jazz because for mini the introduction to jazz is some local jazz night at a bar where it’s pretty much a group of music measures poorly playing through real book tunes. Since jazz, it’s not a very popular form anymore. I think this is how a lot of people are introduced to jazz and turned off. That said for the record I have been one of those guys before.
I spent a LOT of time at a well known (older) jazz musician’s home. This is how he spent 95% of his time listening to his own records from 60s 70s. and saying how great his writing and playing was on each cut. And old videos of his orchestra. It was like being in a horrible time warp.
The beauty of Jazz was the collaboration between defined voices. It was the pursuit of music as the ultimate goal. Today the goal seems to be individual statements over vehicles lacking in composition but offering an aspiring artist a platform for wheelies, devices, institutional scales and modes designed to impress rather than communicate emotion. Cerebral music lacking heart and soul will kill the experience eventually, especially when all graduates of Berkeley play the same lines. Individuality is no substitute for originality. The song is still the star stoopid !
I think the reason many people hate jazz is because the human brain likes to be surprised but it also likes to predict what’s coming next. Too much knowing what’s coming next is boring but too much surprise sounds like chaos to someone who doesn’t understand the language of jazz.
Good point! however I personally think most people favor predictability over surprise seeing how predictable a lot of contemporary pop music is and the fact that people love hearing songs they have heard 100 times before. But as a fan of Jazz I have to admit that I was definitely thrown off the first time I listened to Bitches Brew. I both loved it and hated it for being so different (now I just love it). But you made a really good point and I too think it's the main reason why so many hate jazz.
The brain is not a machine. People like me hate jazz because it is too random, too chromatic, too nihilistic to our tastes. Is that so difficult to understand?
@@adrianhigh4210 That happens too in other genres. For example, in Irish folk music there are many pieces in which the main melody is very busy and there are no rests or very few and short. But it sounds good because the basic principles of music are respected. It's not the same to play a lot of fast notes with no silence for many bars in the dorian mode and with a clear tonal center than to play them with no tonal center and jumping from one abstract chord and its scale to another abstract chord and its scale. There is a world of difference.
@@asamiyashin444 Going back to Amdy Edwards original points Jazz was a Punk style reaction against Strict Tempo and standard music and was for Dancing.."If it aint got that swing" (it.means you cant dance to it!?) So also for Irish and Scottish Jigs reels and similar party music.Its good to discuss
The general theme seems to be that the people making jazz music don’t really make an effort to connect with the listener. Boring personalities, no visual aesthetic, overly complex music, little creativity with timbre… It’s this assumption that if they just work hard and make music that meets their idea of “quality” the audience will love it and if they don’t, that’s their problem. You can even see it in this video. They don’t make an effort to understand these negative comments. They try to prove them “wrong”. Well cool. but music isn’t logic. it’s feelings.
and you edited this...jazz is just music that is a little more complex, the entire concept of hating it is a joke within itself, it can't be hated if half the world knows better. young people already choose to live inside a screen, if they can't even read a book, jazz is out of the question, if they listen to it while "gaming" they won't get it either, its for older people who aren't as fucking stupid.
This misunderstands the appeal of jazz in my opinion. Jazz to me brings out feelings that I just don't feel in other forms of music. The more I listen to jazz, the more I appreciate the beauty and intense emotions that cannot be found in other genres. Recently, I've been in love with Oscar Peterson's version of Days of Wine and Roses from the album We Get Requests. The final part of the solo on that album melts my heart in a way that nothing else does. I used to be an 70s/80s rock fan growing up through my parents. I then got more into alt rock and indie rock as I got into college. Discovering jazz later absolutely has changed my life in a way I'm having trouble articulating. It might not be for you, but this idea of jazz as lacking feeling just isn't true at all.
Hi mr. Martin how are you I just wanted to say that I love your lessons I enjoy everything so far. You're a great teacher now when you say why do people hate Jazz I don't know why I've been playing jazz now for a while I love the chords I love the progressions I'm really starting to become much better understanding scales modes and so on. Jazz has really come far. I'm really a smooth jazz kind of listener. Anyway thank you again mr. Martin I look forward to seeing more of your lessons.
I don't think a lot of jazz enthusiasts realise just how incomprehensible jazz is. All I knew of jazz up to age fifty was what I'd heard on rock albums, like, say those of Steely Dan. I didn't start listening to jazz until I was in my fifties. It was an intuitive progression. I wanted something most rock music was no longer giving me. I like classical music but it wasn't really scratching the itch either. So I tried jazz. I started off listening to Coltrane because I'd heard he was one of the greats, and honestly, a lot of his stuff, especially on 'A Love Supreme', just sounded like random tooting. It wasn't predictable like other music. It made no sense. He just seemed to go wandering off from the song doing his own thing. A lot of jazz sounds like that to those who don't know it: just some self-involved musician making random noises. I think if I hadn't happened on 'Kind of Blue' I might have given up. Then later came the Maria Schneider Orchestra, where her pastoral pieces got me in tune with her style and enabled me to understand some of her gnarlier pieces. It was that smooth and melodic jazz I cottoned onto first. Duke Ellington's 'New Orleans Suite' was another that gave me entry. Then Brad Mehldau's 'Decade'. Also a lot of jazz kind of sounds the same on first impression. I bought a boxed set of Art Pepper and while it was accessible I could hardly distinguish one album from another. Always the same song structure and general sound. Another factor is jazz snobbery. A lot of jazz enthusiasts are really technical about it. A newbie can get the impression that if they haven't got a degree in music they might as well forget it. Music for musicians and elitist music geeks. Basically, to get into jazz you have to be willing to listen and listen and listen. I suppose it's like if you go to live in Italy and you don't speak Italian: eventually you'll pick it up if you're willing. A lot of people aren't willing in our easy-access culture. You really have to be patient and work at it to understand jazz, and a lot of people will wonder why bother. I still don't fully get the allure of 'A Love Supreme' but every now and then I catch a glimpse.
"you have to be willing to listen" Bingo. A jazz solo is like a speech. If you're not willing to listen to it and follow the speaker, there is no point.
I appreciate the musicianship required to play jazz and there are some things I like about it. I like Duke Ellington and think he did it best in some respects - it was more concise. Overall though I think the strong emphasis on improvisation in jazz has limited the form and lead to a monotonous format. When you go to a jazz show you always know what to expect - soloing. It is always solos. Too much soloing gets dull after a while. It is a paradox in music Stravinsky noticed, restrictions in music can be freeing, and too much freedom can lead to limitations.
I completely agree with this. As jazz has modernized it has become PURELY a soloists art. That has transformed it from a relatable and emotionally vibrant form into a boring pony show.
The main obstacle is that people relate to words more than melody. Pop has lots of words, solos are places to dance, not listen for content, that's an INTELLECTUAL pursuit in the midst of a Dance Contest. You have to LISTEN, but they want to be SEEN. Best illustrated by Bruce Hornsby in _The Changes._ "It's us against them tonight..."
Nope. I love instrumental music. I grew up with movies, series, anime and videogame sountracks, most of them instrumental. And I love that music. Stop seeing a "problem" where there isn't. People who hate jazz are sometimes people with music education and knowledge. We simply dislike chromatic and random stuff. Get over it.
The issue is that music is culture and culture is cyclical. Jazz probably reached its peak in popularity in the 1930's during the swing music era. The young people were going nuts over swing music and it was a widespread cultural phenomenon. Things changed when WW2 hit and the music industry was impacted. Jazz remained popular in the 40's and 50's, but not to the level of the swing era. And when the 50's hit R&B and rocknroll hit it big and younger audiences were not flocking to jazz like they did in swing era. But as I pointed out, music culture is cyclical. Before 1990 there was little hip-hop music and then the wave of hip-hop music became a gigantic force for 25 years. I guess my point is, music evolves and the music culture never stays the same. I still believe that jazz music has a place and there are jazz music fans that want to hear the music. I am a musician that plays live jazz and I also like to attend local shows and touring acts. The music is NOT dead, it is just not the mass culture explosion that hip-hop music became.
First of all I don't even consider Hip-Hop a legitimate music(spoken word with music, maybe, but not music per se in itself); secondly, If you check the FACTS, Jazz was as big as Hip-Hop is now; during the 1930s to the 1960s it was a phenomenon that represented the the brightest minds this world could produce-and though it is said to have originated in America, it exploded and gained a world-wide following during the decades of the 1930s to the 1960s; after that, straight-ahead or real Jazz began to wane in this country, but always continued to have a dedicated following of people from all over this planet who 'saw the light' concerning this genius music they called Jazz. And if you think I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm now in my mid-60s and if you take the time to talk to someone who is in their 80s, who was a fan of Jazz back in the 1950s and 60s(if they're any older chances are they're dead and gone), they will tell you that Jazz then was "all the rage"; don't have to believe me, just go ask someone else who is a little older who actually lived the music, and if they will be totally honest with you I believe you'll get your answer. 10-7-23.
I sort of like jazz. I prefer baroque (quite a lot actually) but jazz is ok. EXCEPT!!! for the drums. Absolutely loath them. Jazz without drums is ok, I can listen to it sometimes. Add drums and I turn it off. Immediately. The piano piece at the beginning is a great example. While it is solo piano, I am actually a little interested in listening, to find out if it is going to go somewhere interesting. Then the drums come in and I turn it off.
I never listen jazz longer then 5 minutes and it is not my cup of tea indeed. BUT! Deep in my heart I know well that this genre is technically requires a lot of knowledge and enthusiasm.
People who like jazz are usually narcissistic. It is something I see again and again. Just read the comments of this video. Most of them are arrogant and abusive, belittling people who dislike jazz. Jazz is to most of people who like it like a brand, a "classy" accesory which they like to hang in their noses to feel superior to others. Most of them actually don't like its sound but they like to see themselves associated with it to feel better about themselves. It is all about image. It's pathetic.
@@asamiyashin444 an Interesting thesis, do you have psychological training? I know a lot of Jazz depressives not sure if that fits with narcissistic types.
@@SimonWhitesideMusic The narcissistic traits are there, written in tons of books and articles. Do your research and thinking by yourself. I have done mine and I know why I think what I think.
@@asamiyashin444 some narcissists like jazz of course others like Rock or classical or folk or whatever music you like to call all people who like jazz narcissistic seems flimsy, and as you are unwilling to defend you argument we shall never know if it holds up under scrutiny . You of course seem certain, paradoxically a trait of narcissistic people.
@@SimonWhitesideMusic I said "are usually". I didn't say all. I don't see many people from other genres saying the arrogant and pedantic things that I see jazz musicians and fans saying. I don't see them trying to make a "problem" of the fact that there are people who don't like their favourite genre. I don't see them trying to impose their genre on others as "more advanced", and so on. Just reading the commentaries of this video one realizes that most of them have narcissistic traits. Jazz is a genre which most people associate with being "sophisticated" and "classy", so it tends to attract narcissistic people. I'm just stating a fact. You can confirm it by yourself.
I have to comment on this. The further rock or jazz moves away from blues roots, the less people like it. Blues is the source. If you like a form of jazz (Big Band, early jazz like Armstrong, stuff you can dance to, the Peanuts Christmas Album, Take Five) you no longer think of it as jazz. So by definition, jazz is something you don't like as opposed to particular forms of jazz. As to the forms of jazz, I'm not a trained musician so I can't tell you why I don't want to listen to it. Same reason I don't care for most prog rock.
I love how you guys take the hate with such a good sense of humor. Personally, I think that part of the problem is that 'jazz" is a label that covers too much disparate kind of music. Dixieland and bebop, for some examples - they don't seem to have much to do with each other besides improvisation. Yet other genres also have improvisation. You can like some kinds of jazz and not like others ( you guys seem to not like smooth jazz, for example).
There is no problem there. Imagine that with another genre. Take heavy metal. Imagine a heavy metal musician saying that people who dislike his music is a problem. Isn't that arrogant, pedantic and authoritarian? Ironically, that attitude makes me hate jazz more.
@@spindriftdrinker Because to me your comment, like many others, seems to imply that people don't really hate all jazz music but just some subgenres. I take that as a denial of the fact that many people, such as me, hate all jazz. People are making a "problem" out of that like if jazz were some kind of sacred cow that you can't hate. Just read the comments here. Most people are implying that to hate jazz is to have some "problem", whether it be "bad ear", "lack of musical knowledge", etc. It is an arrogant attitude which I don't see in many other genres.
Seems to me that most people don't find jazz fun or even relatable anymore. Part of it is the "hipper than thou" attitude for sure, the whole institutionalized, codified, academic NPR, National Endowment for the Arts, Jazz at Lincoln Center vibe. But frankly, nobody seems to be writing catchy tunes anymore. That's why everybody has to play standards, the Great American songbook, etc. Ellington, Charlie Parker, Miles, Coltrane, sure they could play but they also wrote great tunes. Maybe everybody's too busy working on their chops to write good songs? Anyway, I really do love Open Studio, guys. Keep flying the flag!
Once bebop began, jazz musicians began writing music that didn’t appeal to the masses. I don’t think that’s a bad thing though, as I don’t think musicians should have to cater to the hoard of impatient listeners. Standards are just standards, that will always be a thing, but the good tunes of now are likely less accessible for pop listeners and the sort I guess.
@@wesphillips7336 I agree, I wouldn't want musicians or composers to dumb down to be popular. I like the challenging stuff and admire the people who can do it. I just think that's the answer to the question of why so many people say they hate jazz. BTW, it applies to most "classical" music, too.
@@daveolssonmusic luckily music taste seems to be diversifying nowadays and many people seem to be more eclectic in the younger generation than I think most people give them credit for. Maybe people will grow an ear for jazz music that isn’t immediately pleasurable to hear
@@wesphillips7336 I hope that's so. I do think some of the vinyl resurgence among younger people is in part driven by the fun of finding things that are well out of today's mainstream. Whether that translates into more audience for the artists working out of the mainstream today is another question. But we can hope!
I've been a jazz musician all my life. My dad was a jazz musician. I love jazz. Who cares if some people don't like jazz? That's they're prerogative. Some people do like jazz. What's the point of engaging in a take down of people who have different taste than you? Being snarky to people who don't like jazz comes across as smug and arrogant, just like the stereotypical jazz musicians that rub them the wrong way in the first place. People don't like jazz because to them, it's boring. Some folks like Burger King, some like gourmet dining. So what?
I make hip hop and edm and listen to most genres including top 40 pop, but i am trained in classical and jazz music theory and I hate jazz. Well not jazz, because it's the foundation for most american popular musical genres. What I don't like is post bebop smooth jazz or anything that sounds bland or made just for those who already like that style. I like music that inspires emotions in my soul and makes me want to move or fall in love or cry. I like gritty dark melodies and short repetitive motifs. I like a good fugue just like I like a good drum loop. There is a certain joy in repetition when you can build up and break down a simple catchy rhythm or melody and develop a complex foundation on top of something really basic. Modern Jazz is the exact opposite of that. I also dislike the unnecessary use of extended chords, substitution, modulation, and modal melody when it doesn't significantly improve the piece of music. All things in moderation yet jazz seems to go all out on harmonic complexity which to me just sounds flat and unoriginal. Rhythm, i enjoy swing and syncopation and polyrhythms. I love a good groove and surprising time signatures. Modern jazz seems to no longer care about making anything danceable or "catchy to non jazz fans. Jazz used to be pop music and before that it was folk music. Now its intellectual music and it sucks.
Because we’re in a race to the bottom. Except for a few shining moments, art has been devolving - coincidentally, right along with society in general. We’ve gone from Tchaikovsky to WAP. Bach to Kid Rock. Charlie Parker to Kanye. Blissfully marching backwards.
Yeah, we are in a race to the bottom indeed. That is why in the West medieval music was by far better than jazz. Jazz started along with nihilism, in the decadence of the first half of the XX century. Itself is decadence. In the eighties they took again the scales, chords and modes from classical music, it was a renaissance of good music. They restored mainstream music rescueing it from the 30's, 40's and 50's nihilistic crap.
@@asamiyashin444 comparing medieval music unfavorably to jazz is a pointless exercise. The 80’s were great but they wealth of melody and harmonic complexity that the music of the early 20th century is unparalleled. Not everyone can appreciate it, I suppose. But as someone who’s studied music all my life, from my vantage point - you’re off base.
@@AspenTruth What "vantage point"? That sounds pretty arrogant and narcissistic. You probe my point. Jazz attracts narcissistic people. You don't know what I know about music and you assume that you are above. Not very smart. And I don't know in what do you base your reasoning to state that we can't compare medieval music with jazz. And what you call complex melodies I call random out of key chromatic notes. It is not complex to add random notes. Anybody can do that. The medieval monks on the contrary respected the rules of music, which are not man made. They tried to compose music which made sense. They composed for a higher reason than simply their egos. And that applies also to all ancient music from all parts of the world. Jazz is nihilism applied to music. Medieval music was the opposite of nihilism. If you don't understand that reasoning maybe you shouldn't be so arrogant as to say "not all can appreciate jazz". Maybe it is you who is not understanding deeper.
@@asamiyashin444 thanks for the “above the fray” enlightenment! Glad I “probed” your point. Chromatic notes, out of key. That, for me, is a simply moronic statement. It actually telegraphs exactly where your musicality lies. Higher purpose? Are you about to put some fairy tale at the center of your argument now? Good luck…
@@AspenTruth "Moronic", "fairy tale"... You probed my point again. Jazz fans usually are the same kind of narcissistic assholes as the new atheists and other pseudoskeptics. People who don't like what you like and who have other belief systems other than nihilism are despised as "morons" in those circles. Because at the end of the day is all about ego. About feeling superior to others. Whether you like it or not, people who made the Western music theory, that jazz uses today, believed that music principles were not man made. They made music with a higher purpose than to show off. They believed in objective beauty, objective principles in music, etc. They were Christian so they believed that music was made by the Christian God. That is why they viewed order and principles in music scales and harmonies. But they were not alone. Ancient Chinese music, ancient Japanese music and many other cultures shared similar principles, a scale no longer than 8 tones, a tonal center, the principle of tension-relaxation, etc. And they were all theists. They knew that music was made by a higher intelligence than them and they were humble to just try to understand it, not twist and dominate it. Their music was full of meaning. It was music that tried to communicate a message. They tried to make sense. That people who your kind despise as "backwards" or "morons" were more rational and wise. They set the foundations of music theory which jazz an other nihilistic styles twisted. I'm not a religious person. But I firmly think that nihilism and atheism are moronic, to use your favourite word. I think that there is objective beauty and objective moral principles. Therefore I despise jazz as ugly, materialistic, nihilistic trash. I don't believe in their "fairy tale" of our brains made by chance and music made by men and therefore being susceptible to random changes. I don't believe their "fairy tale" that we like since childhood what we listen like if our brain was a programable computer. I don't buy that "moronic" shallow bullshit. You are not as smart as you think. You are simply following the trends of today like sheeps.
Average listener hearing many types of jazz hate it because: 1. Can’t dance to it/has no syncopation rhythm 2. Listener can’t follow the instruments as they can be virtuoso style of playing 3. Melody may be non existent or not played enough or uninteresting Personally I think these three reasons are at the core. Much of Old jazz had characteristics of being danceable or cool rhythms at the core, singable/memorable/catchy Melodie’s, and didn’t exist with so much of the song being comprised of virtuoso playing- the excessive virtuoso playing alienates the public and it becomes music played by musicians to impress other musicians
I think the conversation should be why do people dislike Bebop or certain kinds of jazz. Bebop sounds like rambling more so that many other forms. Big band, gypsy jazz, acid jazz, Bossa nova, and swing focus more on melody and hooks are less busy and more palatable.
The truth is that people don't hate jazz. If they would, that would be a sign of sanity, for jazz is obscene and degenerate - just like people are. And that's why people don't hate jazz.
Perhaps some people may be allergic to swing, but considering the huge expanse different styles and eras of jazz history, it's really hard to imagine that the people who claim to hate jazz have actually listened to the great wide variety of music genres that typically fall under the category of JAZZ... So you hate Sinatra AND Scofield? You hate Count Basie AND Wayne Shorter? You hate Louis Armstrong AND Horace Silver?
My mom kept saying how much she hated jazz and that it was her least favorite type of music, and I said, "What about Frank Sinatra? His music is jazz.", and she said "I guess you're right. There is some jazz that I like."
The emperor has no clothes, swing doesn't exist. It is just music in triplets with a silence in the note of the middle. It has been around for millennia. In Celtic music, to mention just an example, it is used a lot. I hate jazz and I don't hate jumpy rhythms. I like Irish folk music, for example, and they do what I said above, which sounds exactly like "swing". I don't get why there are so many people in these comments inventing poor excuses to "explain" why people dislike jazz, as if that was a problem. It is not. I hate jazz because musically it doesn't make sense. It's random. Get over it. Many people understand music and hate jazz.
I think, to some people, jazz can sound like a bunch of unfriendly snobs jerking off with a bunch of scales and arpeggios, over and over and over again...I however, like jazz conceptually, and LOVE it when played by the best musicians. It actually occupies 98% of my music listening.
I don’t talk about my love of jazz because 9/10 they tell me they hate it this poem sums it up for me Travel and tell no one, live a true love story and tell no one, live happily and tell no one, people ruin beautiful things… Khalil Gibran
In the early twentieth century, jazz was the mainstream of popular music. Why has jazz fallen out of favor? You may as well be asking why isn’t Gregorian chant popular anymore, or why are so few people listening to baroque music? The reason is the same. Times change, society changes, art, music and fashion change, and people move on.
The main reason i hate jazz, is because of jazz musicians i've met. They all have this really annoying air about themselves, and take themselves way too serious. For some reason they feel superior, besides, all that randomeness just does not sound good to me... Want to make Berklee guys pissed, just say : jazz.SUx!
See, not all Jazz musicians are arrogant. Yes, A lot of them are arrogant. The reason, Most of them believe that Jazz is a superior form of music. The reason they believe this is because it takes an extraordinary amount of skill of to become good at Jazz. I am a classically trained Guitarist, I can play anything from Paganini to Mozart to Chopin to Debussy. I am somewhat good at improv but trust me the skill that it takes too become a good jazz guitarist is crazy. You need hundreds of hours of practice to become good at it and along with that love for it. This makes them arrogant. This makes them show-off. You said that" Randomness just does not sound good to me...". No, Jazz is not random. If anything it is not random. It may sound random, It is not. The reason it sounds random, Is due to improvisation. In Jazz, there is a big focus on creativity. Especially, in soloing. A jazz solo is like a storyline. Also, not all Jazz songs sound "random". Hard Bop usually has a lot of good melody. You have only the tip of the Jazz Iceberg, my friend. Until, you dive deep. You will never understand what Jazz is.
@@thefausty5195 just forget Ferny's comment. Another jazz hater... that's all. I guess he was saying that the 2nd part of your content was jazz snobby? But then, if all jazz people are arrogant snobs, then all jazz haters are jealous and butthurt for not understanding.
@@fernyfloresdrummer3568 sometimes things that are true sound pretentious. I’ll give you an example. Jazz is to most forms of pop what algebra is to addition. It’s an evolution of the sonic palette.
I think most people just haven't heard very much jazz at all. There's something for everyone. Fusion jazz is especially accessible to those who already like whatever genre it (Fusion) is fusing jazz with in that moment. That's how I got into jazz-- from hearing fusion that had rock-derived elements that I already understood and enjoyed.
'Traditional' jazz is really hard to play well. Resulting in lots of jazz musicians playing badly. Then if you're following the belief "innovation is the tradition" than often the music sounds like a combination of anything and nothing: Armenian folk music instruments playing Hank Williams songs with a bill frissell guitar pedalboard lead by an avant garde punk rock alto saxophone. So if you're really careful about who's on the bill, going to a jazz concert can be great and anyone likes it, but take extreme caution.
People who say jazz is elevator music simply have no clue. Obviously, if your knowledge of jazz is based on false stereotypes and "jazz music for studying" videos, what do you expect? If they were to explore bebop, hard bop, or jazz fusion, I doubt they'd feel the same way. It's like saying all heavy metal sounds the same and is just screaming because you've never listened to more than one song. Even without listening much to that genre, I know that's not true.
People who think jazz is elevator music have only ever listened to Kenny G. Which is not jazz. Jazz is social and communicative music. Which is not Kenny G.
I feel like people don’t like jazz because they can’t understand it. It’s boring if you’re unable to appreciate the key changes and the complexity of the playing. I feel like jazz is appreciated by mostly musicians imo.
Let's go back to early 60's with Charles Lloyd and ensembles where the music was journey of colors. Today's drummer should use more wrists verses pounding and get away from r&b meters.
Jazz by itself doesn't make me feel stupid. I simply dislike their harmonies and melodies (when they have). I don't like getting insulted by dudes who like jazz, though. Do you see the difference? Music doesn't make you feel stupid, narcissistic abusive people do.
@@asamiyashin444 Point taken, and I didn’t mean to be abusive. I don’t think people are stupid if they don’t like jazz. And I don’t think anyone deserves to feel stupid.
Yah Jazz the point When Music turns into Music for Musicians! Like Artsy-fartsy Indi films made for Film Creators! Jazz: Fun to Preform Not Enjoyable to listen to! Then again I like Trance-Drone type music sooo... yah....
I think the musicians are awesome and talented. I can't stand the music though. All of it sounds like hitting the wrong note over and over again and just rolling with it. Plus it lacks the rhythm and melody I prefer. Pure preference and pure hatred
Some of it is the role each individual expects/wants music to play. Some people want music that doesn't require much of their attention; some Jazz fans seek out ever-more-challenging listening, for example, big-band music starting with DE and moving to DE (Duke Ellington to Don Ellis) and beyond. Another thing that gets a lot of hate is 1970s German Heavy Metal, but I recently learned that _Sails of Charon_ might be a gateway drug. ruclips.net/video/Zs5NOrYYV2s/видео.html Or, it might just be a one-off that has novelty appeal.
Again the typical and arrogant prejudice that if you don't like jazz then you are "simplistic". I listen to music with attention. I'm not a casual music listener. I like many genres varying from pop to videogame soundtracks, even some classical music pieces and I hate jazz because it is nihilistic, pedantic, random and too chromatic to my tastes. People need to get over it, period. Stop trying to impose your favourite genre on others.
Jazz chords are great, but only for playing jazz. When I listen to real good jazz musicians playing most popular pop songs, the chords are so detached from the song.
Pete Rogene used to tell the class, the non-Jazzers who had to take a music history class, "If you listen to Bird long enough, you'll start hearing it." I'll add this: learning Jazz gives you big ears. Learning and transcribing inside stuff is like spreading warm butter after you've messed with harmony and modes a bit...
Why does it always seem like jazz musicians are allergic to the concept of a key signature? They seem quite aware of the existence of a key and do everything in their power to avoid one. I am quite familiar with many eastern and African scales, microtones , play sitar, love gamelan, but there are many modern styles of jazz that are the only thing that just sounds musically wrong to me. Why is that, why the pervasive creation of anti-music?
Interesting point of view but some times dissonance can be where its at same as playing against the beat can also be a thing. As Thelonious Monk said about his approach to Jazz was as follows, "Some folk like to play the black notes some go for the white notes but I like the ones in between" Jazz like modern art is an evolving art form and that can be a challenge for the musician and the listener.
Because jazz is post-modernism and nihilism applied to music. Narcissism is closely related to it. If you read commentaries here from jazz fanboys you will see how abusive and narcissistic they are. They gaslight, project, show grandiose fantasies, belittle others, etc. And yes, keys are not a Western "cultural construct" as those nihilists imply. You can see the same concept universally. Ancient Japanese, Chinese, Arab, African, tribal music... You name it. All of that music share the concept of a key. The concept of tension - resolution is essential to music. You can't have music if all the time there is tension. Jazz fans are like post-modern "artists" trying to convince themselves and people around them that a cow excrement inside a glass is "art". The emperor has no clothes.
@@Guitar6ty Music is perennial. The rules of music are not man made and they don't "evolve". That is a wrong concept of the modern and post-modern world.
It's really quite simple. Jazz has no discernible melody, a lot of dissonance and sounds horrible. Our ears are trained at a very young age to listen for melodic hooks, nice chords, and harmonies. Jazz has none of these. And the players are often aloof and boring as well.
Jazz and swing was killed by the 4/4 rythm of rock and pop music. Nothing swings anymore. So if you grow up with only 4/4 music and you are conditioned to THAt you sooner or later start to hate anything else like jazz, classic, flamenco etc. I have witnessed this among my peers. They are trained over decades to 4/4 music. They just are not able to listen to anything other than that.Their brain just can not muster is. This is true not only for Jazz but for Progrock like Genesis with different meters or odd time signatures. In the 70ies every Saturdy evening Quiz show here in Germanyx they had big great Swing Bands like Max Greger Band / Kurt Edelhagen big band / James Last big band who did not play hard jazz but it had swing. People were still used to it. Than it vanished within the following years. So watch movies of Woody Allen and you will have great movies and great jazz music.
I search for I hate jazz fusion (despite loving jazz or at least big parts of it - def not all). Truth is most people find because of search and don't the succession of your work/episodes. It's absurd you think people listen to all your stuff in the same way it is extremely unlikely you've listened to all the music of artists you like. To me, most jazz is total guff, just like most pop or metal or any genre or anything... just like most people's contribution to work in their jobs or their contribution to family life. So, discounting ALL jazz but we can pan most of it - as we can win most "categories" of art... But we can also say then that alike other genres/categories, most jazz is sh*t. And therefore most jazz should be considered average at best and most criticism, is therefore fair. So don't get butt hurt about. I searched the term "I hate Jazz Fusion" after hearing a bunch of Zappa albums and two by Weather Report and wondering what an Earth people like about it... expecting to hear a defense or study of it. I am constantly confused and disgusted by people who enjoy things like Snarky Puppy's live stuff where few members of the audience pull jazz faces whilst most people look utterly bemused. The most obvious criticism of jazz and jazz fusion and sh*t music in general, which should be defensible, (if it is any good) is... "Why do you make it (your music) sound so sh*t?" and "Why and to what end do you do doing everything in your power to be so obtuse and make the worst possible decision in that moment?".
Interesting podcast. I think the term jazz is pretty useless as it could mean anything from Jellyroll to contemporary European Modernist chamber music. Jazz was popular when it catered to dancers, as in the big band era, or when it was focused on singers and songs, but to expect a large audience to enjoy 30 choruses of intentionally dissonant, odd meter instrumental music is a big ask. P.S. I actually like jazz.
People hate jazz because it has the reputation of being high-brow. They prefer low-brow music that gets people pumping their fists in the air like they just don’t care.
That argument is abusive and reductionist. I know many people, myself included, who hate jazz and like pretty good music, and we don't go to concerts or "pump our fists in the air". You know, reading these comments I'm starting to realize that jazz is becoming a cult. The attitude of belittling, caricaturizing and insulting people who are not into it is typical of cults.
This is not really anything to do with 'why people hate jazz'. You can't just look at peoples comments and get an answer. The original video stated 7 reasons 1. Sounds complicated 2. Is instrumental 3. Too many men in jazz 4. Is far to Acoustic in sound 5.The musicians are Nerds 6. The compositions are too long. 7. The audience is dumb. Ok I'll grant that some of these reasons are valid. However, none of them are fatal. Surely the main reasons are more complex embracing race, social ecomomic situations, Greed, American Law etc. Jazz is dying in the US! The National Endowment for the Arts report of public participation in the arts (2012) shows that jazz lags behind classical music in its popularity. Only 1.4% of Americans play jazz (as opposed to 3.1% who play classical music). Only 7.8% of Americans have attended at least one jazz event within a year (9.3% for classical music) and the dynamic of public interest in Jazz continues to head down; 38% drop in attendance compared to what was before; the previously stated 2008 report. The report found the average age of jazz fans has gone up from 29 in 1982 to 46 in 2008. It was also estimated that of the young people who did attend jazz concerts (18 to 34 year olds) only 18% of their recorded music collection was Jazz. The Amercan resolution of congress (H.Con.Res.57) that declared jazz 'a rare and valuable national treasure' to which we should devote our attention, support and resources to make certain it is preserved' is testimony to this. (www.congress.gov/bill/105th-congress/house-concurrent-resolution/57/text) Music that is Virile does not need protection and is not referred to as rare. Only endangered species are rare.
Update - Wow I've just been looking at the latest figures from 2012 to 2017 and they show 8.6% of americans listening to jazz live (at least 1 concert per year) so we are on the up again - but are we. The likes of Kenny G are included in that figure with almost half of recorded music sales. www.arts.gov/artistic-fields/research-analysis/arts-data-profiles/arts-data-profile-18
Your reasons for why people hate them don’t make much sense to me, could you elaborate? Also, all music from the past was protected in some way, that’s why we still have it. In the consumer market of music. Protecting music of the contemporary alerts has become less of a priority so less jazz is at the forefront of our minds. As a cultural icon, it should be protected and renewed in interest
That's because jazz licks the balls of every other kind of music, even rap and rap is absolute vulgar filth. Jazz is worse than rap. Jazz is worse than Christian rock. Jazz is worse than anything and everything that is audible. I would rather hear a room full of crying babies and bitching, bitter old women arguing than listen to the ear rape that is jazz music. Worse than that are jazz fans, I hope they all die a painful death while snapping their fingers and tapping their feet to the off tempo beat of a shitty jazz composition. Fuck you all
basically none of these reasons are valid but, good job seeming stupid. No gender doesn't effect music. No complexity is actually pleasing to most ears given the time and patience. No its not acoustic there is plenty of electronics and genre bending. No the musicians are slick ie: MILES FUCKING DAVIS. No the compositions actually are generally 1-6 minutes which considering most techno tracks is short. The audience is dumb? this one you came up with on you're own because you're dumb and you hurt inside. I liked jazz at 12 when I first heard it, because I'm mildly intelligent, no more than that. Don't give idiots credit for not liking something obviously beautiful, you think you're helping, you made us all dumber.
Jeez. I don't care for jazz for the same reason I don't care for sushi. Pretentious and just tastes bad. Ok, positive thing about jazz? It's way better than the rap that I'm hearing coming out of kids cars these days which is even worse than the rap that came out in the '80s and '90s. Hell, I would put bagpipe music ahead of jazz.
love jazz but not all genres of it. For example, I love big band inspired jazz, or stuff like Pat Metheny. I enjoy a once in a while smooth jazz because we all need something easy to digest. BUT...Freejazz.....NO. I'm sorry but a universe without a degree of order, or something that is too complicated is like something beautiful spoken in a busy and noisey dialect, or said in an overly complicated way.
Here's the short of it-people say they don't like jazz because it's 'over their heads'; it makes them feel real little and people don't like to be made to feel real little. And most people will never admit this, but this is what I find to be the case with a lot of, maybe most, people that are in the world. Also I'm told it is human nature to dislike anything that they don't understand, especially something that has shown itself to be of such a complex nature as the music of jazz, which again, tends to be over most peoples' heads; at the same time I noticed that everybody likes some type of jazz-like they want to be about "it" but because they find they cannot be(because it's over their heads)they tend to dismiss it. A sad commentary and indictment of humanity but that's how it is with most people, it appears; always has been-and always will be. 5-10-23.
You are not mentioning that there are many people who have a deep knowledge in music and hate jazz. Many people with classical music background hate and criticize it with many good points. I can't speak for others but I don't hate if people understand something that I don't understand. That is normal, we can't understand all. But what I really hate is the pedantic attitude of "you don't like jazz because you are too ignorant (simplistic, dumb... Add the pejorative term you like here) to understand it". That is abusive and narcissistic and if you read the comments of this video you are going to see that kind of comments a lot. I don't see that arrogant and intolerant attitude in most of the other music genres. I don't see a rastafari who likes reggae belittling people who don't like it as "simplistic", etc. I don't see a pop singer song writter belittling people who like rock or techno, and so on. Maybe one of the reasons why so many people hate jazz is because that narcissistic abuse kind of comments coming from jazz fanboys and musicians. People don't like to be forced to like what they dislike. That is violence, so it is understandable. I think that it is not we, people who have many good reasons to hate jazz who need to improve. You, jazz fanboys need to stop bullying people who hate your genre and get over it. You need to understand that your whole darwinian evolutionary musical piramid in which jazz is at the top is BS.
I think that what YOU have disseminated is BS; there is nothing violent or bullying about telling the truth concerning the music called Jazz and personally, I think you are another one of those assh____ who cannot stand the truth, and it shows in your overly worded diatribe about what you "claim" to be the facts when they are nothing more than personal opinions based on a biased viewpoint(though I am sure you disagree); and as far as classical goes, it is by nature a Eurocentric based music and I can see why in YOUR opinion, people from such a background would criticize it-"with many good points"; go and try to convince someone else about the "merits" of your cause-you have only caused me to look upon you or anyone like you, with disdain and contempt...10-7-23. P.S.: And for the record-I posted my name as Charles Brazell-not "@charlesbrazell2136"; it appears my enemies(at RUclips)are still at work trying to discredit me/my statements for the truth that I tell. 10-7-23.
People hating jazz is pretty much like hating Spanish, Mandarin, or Hindi. People who speak those languages are like, uh . . . who's the potato over there with the backward baseball cap, Crocs, and can't say hello?
Nice gaslighting attempt (a narcissistic abuse tactic). Do you know that there are many people with musical knowledge who hate jazz? People who understand the "language" but still hate it? I understand, for example, what a dominant 7th in the tonic major chord is. I hate it though. I find it dissonant. Why do you guys try to impose jazz on others? What is wrong with you, guys? Why that obsession to convince yourselves and others that "if you don't like what I like then you don't understand it"? Don't you realize how arrogant and hateful that attitude is?
I came with an open mind trying to understand why I don’t like jazz despite liking Bossa Nova and Classical music, but it was hard to keep focused with the horrible music playing in the background. What is that s$&t?
Interesting paradox. Jazz improvisation is all about telling a story. Like Art Blakey shouting encouragement at Lee Morgan... tell your story man. Take that further and you have Coltrane playing on a spiritual level. But if the audience into it I guess it's going to sound too esoteric. Hmmm reminds me of something ...
![Chris Langan - The Interview THEY Didn't Want You To See - CTMU [Full Version; Timestamps]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9miVG2xT5jY/mqdefault.jpg)
The best explanation I have come across is basically "because they can't find a reason to view it as authentic". This is nicely outlined in Allan Moore's seminal 2002 article, "Authenticity as Authentication", in which he basically argues that in order for listeners to value musicians and their work, they must perceive them/it to be 1) sincere, 2) relatable, and/or 3) humble/conversant with the tradition that they purport/it purports to represent. How sincere, relatable, and grounded do most jazz musicians seem to those who didn't grow up around jazz music and jazz musicians? It's also worth bearing in mind that the argument that "people would enjoy jazz if they just took the time to understand it" actually highlights the problem as much as it poses the solution: why should anyone other than aspiring jazz musicians seek to authenticate a music and a music scene that presents such a high bar for entry, and that frequently denigrates its own more accessible offerings (and, often, the popular music that developed in tandem with it)?
For me, the only jazz that fits this description is 'free' jazz, which reminds me of 'classical' music post 1920...I simply can't distinguish a free jazz composition from a large collection of random notes. That's NOT relatable (for me), nor sincere (for me) and I have NO idea what it's grounded in.
Honestly, that would apply to almost any musical style. With anything that isn't pop or what's normally played on the radio, it happens. Heavier rock styles are almost impossible to listen to for those not accustomed to them. I simply believe there are many false prejudices regarding jazz musicians. I play it simply because it's what I like; I don't know about others, but even if I try, they tire me out quickly.
@@guillermor.r4831 Please note I specifically said "free" jazz. I love many other forms of jazz music.
Or even more simply put. It sounds like shit
"As time passes, jazz seems to swing less and less..."
It's because we have gotten to the point I suppose where everything has been 'said and done' with respect to jazz music. I don't know, I'm just offering my opinion as to why it's like you say it is; and I agree with you, when you say jazz certainly seems to have less "swing" to it.
I suppose it's due to the music having evolved(or is it de-volved?)over the last fifty years to the point where it has become more cerebral and less melodic-and less able to be comprehended by the masses, and as a result, having less of that which appeals to people like you and I; and I appreciate your comments-you've stated in very succinct terms what has become of jazz, which is an indictment of where humanity has come-or what it has come to. 5-10-23.
You know how your grandmother reacts(or would react) to Slayer played at an excessive volume? That's a good analogy for how I feel about "smooth" jazz.
Yup its Jazz for vomitorium.
Jazz is not musical masturbation, because when you masturbate, you’re not trying to impress other people.
I come at it from a different angle; jazz raided and burned my village when I was a child. So I HATE jazz and one day I will take my revenge upon it all.
Well, in some sense jazz does burn our ears. It's cacophonic.
I sympathise with people who hate Jazz….they are simply musically handicapped.
definately
Noodling. Directionless. Tends toward muzak. Pretentious. Elitist. Outmoded. Allergic to strong emotion (after 1950).
Now I'll listen to your reasons and compare them with mine.
Miles Davis, Barney Kessel and the Poll winners, Wes Montgomery all made Jazz accessible to none musicians along with Pat Martino. They did it by eschewing the Blizzard of notes look at me school of Jazz. Big Band Jazz is also superb when performed live. Jazz does tend to be musicians music and for none musicians many just do not get it.
Side note: it's hard enough to get a steady gig for a quartet, or even a trio. Big band is GREAT fun, but keeping one together is for the larger cities. I play with an 11-piece group, we all get a copy of the C Lead Sheet, do your own transpose and background harmonies... No rehearsal needed, just ears and luck. Usually sounds pretty good, but there are days...
There can be many reasons why people hate, or simply don’t like jazz. But I think a more useful point is to think in terms of the fundamental obstacle to liking jazz, and quite simply that obstacle is the inability to “hear it “. perhaps more so than any other musical, idiom, jazz improvisation, is based on a very specific language. We can go into detail and try to analyze the grammar and syntax of that language, and that is surely something people do when studying jazz improvisation. But the bottom line is that the improvised line is spoken in this language, and the politically incorrect truth is that most people simply can’t understand it. In this sense the problem is a lot like not being able to enjoy Greek poetry if one doesn’t speak Greek. Moreover, for most people being able to hear jazz and understand that language is some thing that takes thousands of hours of exposure. I still remember as a teenager listening to Tenor Madness. at the time I was fairly new to Bebop, and I distinctly really remember being unable to tell the difference between Sonny Rollins and John Coltrane. today when I listen to Tenor Madness, it’s hard for me to believe that I could not hear the difference between such different improvisers. And the reason that time I couldn’t at that time is simply that I had a limited understanding of modern jazz language. And by the way, I emphasize “modern jazz “here because it’s with the advent of bebop/modern jazz, that this language reaches a level of maturity and sophistication that’s simply impossible to understand without exposure. What’s interesting is that this is somewhat less the case with her earlier just styles. I find that typically such styles as Dixieland and swing are easier to assimilate absent the kind of exposure that the typical consumer of Bebop has. It’s also important to understand that understanding the language here does not mean being able to analyze it in some formal sense, any more than my understanding of English means that I can analyze the grammar. My understanding of English is a purely subjective - but very definite - experience where the words simply make sense and communicate meaning to me. Understanding the improvise line is similar: you hear it and you “get it”. The reason I say this is politically incorrect is that if you tell most people who don’t like Jazz AND have little exposure to jazz, that they likely can’t hear what’s going on, you’ll be met with indignation. I’ve seen many videos to try to explain how to listen to jazz, explaining what’s going on, etc. But unfortunately, without hours and hours of exposure and preferably this occurring at an early age, the situation is relatively hopeless. It’s no coincidence that most people who enjoy this music were exposed to it growing up in their homes or at least at an early age and some other context. The other interesting thing about this is that having musical ability or a good year is not enough. My sister plays piano and has an excellent ear for harmony and melody. Growing up, however, she listened exclusively to classical music, while I listen to both classical music and jazz. As an adult, she is an extensive listener to Romantic classical music, and really knows her stuff. She catches nuances in performances, is able to compare different works, and comment on them with deep aesthetic understanding. About 10 years ago she decided she wanted to learn to play jazz piano. Naturally, I began giving her stuff to listen to. What’s so interesting was her initial eactions to Charlie Parker. Now this is someone with extensive familiarity with the likes of Beethoven list, Rachmaninov, Chopin, Mozart, etc., but as she now explains to her, Charlie Parker at that time sounded incomprehensible, chacophonous ,verging on atonal. Now 10 years later and after 1000s of hours of listening, she now hears bird and bebop very differently. And, she is also amazed at how entirely incomprehensible it initially sounded to her. She explaines her experience now, as much like being able to understand a language that was previously was incomprehensible to her.
Joseph P Cannavo
I have never seen that arrogance of saying "if you don't like my favourite genre then you don't understand it" in any other musical genre. The more I understand about chords, scales and music theory in general the more I understand why I don't like jazz. Jazz is musical nihilism, it's random stuff, it's pedantic, period. It is like post-modern "art". That is how I see it and no one insulting me or trying to intimidate me is going to make me change my thoughts on that.
Why can you, jazz fanboys, get over the fact that many people understand music theory and still hate jazz? Why do you need to feel superior to people who dislike the genre you like? Further, since when understanding music theory is required to enjoy music? Nobody needs to "understand the language" of a rock, pop, folk, or classical music theme to enjoy it. Because those genres are well composed. They make sense.
Stop imposing your random post-modern nihilistic music on others.
@@asamiyashin444 I agree partly what you said but you also grouped ALL jazz in post modern art, which is highly reductive. I myself gravitate toward old swing, big band, and early jazz. Not all jazz is atonal and post modern like what you are insinuating.
People don't just want musical chops, however good. They want melody and harmony.
And jazz has lots of rich melodies and harmonies.
@@MrThinkingahead the meandering parts outweigh and overshadow the hooks in my opinion.
@@espojespo5 Great jazz doesn't have meandering parts. You might need to develop your ears more.
I would add that they want "simple" melody and "simple" harmony. Jazz takes an investment in your ears.
Yes, they want an emotional impact they can carry back home.
I think a lot of people who say they hate jazz have only heard a certain type of vacuous music often passed off as jazz, with soloists sleepily noodling over a funky backbeat. And they're absolutely right to hate on that crap. Unfortunately their attitude also means they'll never hear a single note by Bird, or Tatum, or Coltrane.
The problem with your theory is that those who dislike Coltrane (far out,) Bird or Diz (too many notes) also dislike smooth jazz. But I have a LOT of friends, acquaintances and other players who enjoy the sub-genre. It's not 'jazz' which I consider a combination of spiritual protest, it's "Sinatra-pop for the 80s and on.. If you can call Sinatra Jazz, then Kenny G makes the cut. If not, then I agree with you...😎
Couldn't it be that we dislike jazz because we don't like how it sounds? Could it be that we dislike the abuse of chromatic notes, chords out of key, and so on? Why do you jazz fanboys have that difficulty understanding that there are people who have many reasons to hate the genre?
I just listened to some of that, and it just sounds shit, like it's annoying to listen to,
Ah, this is such a deep question. Firstly, the term jazz really doesn't mean anything today other than to us jazz musicians. Funk is often referred to as jazz, smooth jazz, traditional swing jazz, jazz rock, pop jazz, etc. So now days when somebody says jazz, who knows what they are talking about. But I can say that the general populace doesn't relate to "jazz" because jazz doesn't have the strong rock feel. Jazz is quite ethereal so the non-musician can't relate to it. If the beat doesn't go boom boom boom boom (we live in a 4/4 society you know!) there's nothing for the non-musician to latch onto. You know this reminds me of a time many years ago when I was learning how to solo on Giant Steps. My son, at the time, was in his early 20's and is/still is a great drummer. I was explaining how incredible Giant Steps was and how challenging it is to solo over. He looked at me and said 'what's the big deal, it's just another swing tune". From his perspective yes but not to us as guitar players. So this reminds me of your question ...why people really hate jazz? For the same reason my son said what he said....it all sounds the same, not to mention that people can't understand the sophistication of the art form. Finally, when I listen to a rock album, every tune is a different color, a different vibe. On the other hand when I listen to a jazz album, I know pretty much what every tune on the album is going to sound like. To us jazz musicians we hear all of the subtleties and every tune sounds unique to us but not to the general music listener.
It seems to me that it is a nature/ nurture argument. Jazz is not in anyone’s nature, you have be in the right environment. I grew up in Southern California in the ‘70’s where rock was king. But little did I know that a lot musicians I listened to were jazz musicians that played rock. Then I discovered KKGO and a whole new world opened up. I could go 15 min down the road to Disneyland and see Maynard Furguson, Pieces of a Dream, Allan Holdsworth and Buddy Rich.
As an adult, we moved to North Carolina where most everyone I’ve met listens to both kinds of music: country & western. If I grew up here, I doubt I would’ve ever listened to, let alone like, jazz.
had this conversation with a friend earlier this week. We were talking about how originally we were turned off by jazz because for mini the introduction to jazz is some local jazz night at a bar where it’s pretty much a group of music measures poorly playing through real book tunes. Since jazz, it’s not a very popular form anymore. I think this is how a lot of people are introduced to jazz and turned off. That said for the record I have been one of those guys before.
I spent a LOT of time at a well known (older) jazz musician’s home. This is how he spent 95% of his time listening to his own records from 60s 70s. and saying how great his writing and playing was on each cut. And old videos of his orchestra. It was like being in a horrible time warp.
I love jazz I just hate learning it. So fuckin hard
The beauty of Jazz was the collaboration between defined voices. It was the pursuit of music as the ultimate goal. Today the goal seems to be individual statements over vehicles lacking in composition but offering an aspiring artist a platform for wheelies, devices, institutional scales and modes designed to impress rather than communicate emotion. Cerebral music lacking heart and soul will kill the experience eventually, especially when all graduates of Berkeley play the same lines. Individuality is no substitute for originality. The song is still the star stoopid !
I think the reason many people hate jazz is because the human brain likes to be surprised but it also likes to predict what’s coming next. Too much knowing what’s coming next is boring but too much surprise sounds like chaos to someone who doesn’t understand the language of jazz.
Good point! however I personally think most people favor predictability over surprise seeing how predictable a lot of contemporary pop music is and the fact that people love hearing songs they have heard 100 times before. But as a fan of Jazz I have to admit that I was definitely thrown off the first time I listened to Bitches Brew. I both loved it and hated it for being so different (now I just love it). But you made a really good point and I too think it's the main reason why so many hate jazz.
The brain is not a machine. People like me hate jazz because it is too random, too chromatic, too nihilistic to our tastes. Is that so difficult to understand?
Especially true of Jazz lead instrument rhythm.
Too many notes and NO spaces.
@@adrianhigh4210 That happens too in other genres. For example, in Irish folk music there are many pieces in which the main melody is very busy and there are no rests or very few and short. But it sounds good because the basic principles of music are respected. It's not the same to play a lot of fast notes with no silence for many bars in the dorian mode and with a clear tonal center than to play them with no tonal center and jumping from one abstract chord and its scale to another abstract chord and its scale. There is a world of difference.
@@asamiyashin444 Going back to Amdy Edwards original points Jazz was a Punk style reaction against Strict Tempo and standard music and was for Dancing.."If it aint got that swing" (it.means you cant dance to it!?) So also for Irish and Scottish Jigs reels and similar party music.Its good to discuss
The general theme seems to be that the people making jazz music don’t really make an effort to connect with the listener. Boring personalities, no visual aesthetic, overly complex music, little creativity with timbre… It’s this assumption that if they just work hard and make music that meets their idea of “quality” the audience will love it and if they don’t, that’s their problem. You can even see it in this video. They don’t make an effort to understand these negative comments. They try to prove them “wrong”. Well cool. but music isn’t logic. it’s feelings.
and you edited this...jazz is just music that is a little more complex, the entire concept of hating it is a joke within itself, it can't be hated if half the world knows better. young people already choose to live inside a screen, if they can't even read a book, jazz is out of the question, if they listen to it while "gaming" they won't get it either, its for older people who aren't as fucking stupid.
This misunderstands the appeal of jazz in my opinion.
Jazz to me brings out feelings that I just don't feel in other forms of music. The more I listen to jazz, the more I appreciate the beauty and intense emotions that cannot be found in other genres.
Recently, I've been in love with Oscar Peterson's version of Days of Wine and Roses from the album We Get Requests. The final part of the solo on that album melts my heart in a way that nothing else does.
I used to be an 70s/80s rock fan growing up through my parents. I then got more into alt rock and indie rock as I got into college. Discovering jazz later absolutely has changed my life in a way I'm having trouble articulating.
It might not be for you, but this idea of jazz as lacking feeling just isn't true at all.
Hi mr. Martin how are you I just wanted to say that I love your lessons I enjoy everything so far. You're a great teacher now when you say why do people hate Jazz I don't know why I've been playing jazz now for a while I love the chords I love the progressions I'm really starting to become much better understanding scales modes and so on. Jazz has really come far. I'm really a smooth jazz kind of listener. Anyway thank you again mr. Martin I look forward to seeing more of your lessons.
Damn, I remember watching that video. This podcast has come so far.
I don't think a lot of jazz enthusiasts realise just how incomprehensible jazz is. All I knew of jazz up to age fifty was what I'd heard on rock albums, like, say those of Steely Dan. I didn't start listening to jazz until I was in my fifties. It was an intuitive progression. I wanted something most rock music was no longer giving me. I like classical music but it wasn't really scratching the itch either. So I tried jazz.
I started off listening to Coltrane because I'd heard he was one of the greats, and honestly, a lot of his stuff, especially on 'A Love Supreme', just sounded like random tooting. It wasn't predictable like other music. It made no sense. He just seemed to go wandering off from the song doing his own thing. A lot of jazz sounds like that to those who don't know it: just some self-involved musician making random noises.
I think if I hadn't happened on 'Kind of Blue' I might have given up. Then later came the Maria Schneider Orchestra, where her pastoral pieces got me in tune with her style and enabled me to understand some of her gnarlier pieces. It was that smooth and melodic jazz I cottoned onto first. Duke Ellington's 'New Orleans Suite' was another that gave me entry. Then Brad Mehldau's 'Decade'.
Also a lot of jazz kind of sounds the same on first impression. I bought a boxed set of Art Pepper and while it was accessible I could hardly distinguish one album from another. Always the same song structure and general sound.
Another factor is jazz snobbery. A lot of jazz enthusiasts are really technical about it. A newbie can get the impression that if they haven't got a degree in music they might as well forget it. Music for musicians and elitist music geeks.
Basically, to get into jazz you have to be willing to listen and listen and listen. I suppose it's like if you go to live in Italy and you don't speak Italian: eventually you'll pick it up if you're willing. A lot of people aren't willing in our easy-access culture. You really have to be patient and work at it to understand jazz, and a lot of people will wonder why bother. I still don't fully get the allure of 'A Love Supreme' but every now and then I catch a glimpse.
"you have to be willing to listen" Bingo. A jazz solo is like a speech. If you're not willing to listen to it and follow the speaker, there is no point.
A love Supreme is a Master Piece....the epitome of the jazz language
I appreciate the musicianship required to play jazz and there are some things I like about it. I like Duke Ellington and think he did it best in some respects - it was more concise. Overall though I think the strong emphasis on improvisation in jazz has limited the form and lead to a monotonous format. When you go to a jazz show you always know what to expect - soloing. It is always solos. Too much soloing gets dull after a while. It is a paradox in music Stravinsky noticed, restrictions in music can be freeing, and too much freedom can lead to limitations.
I completely agree with this. As jazz has modernized it has become PURELY a soloists art. That has transformed it from a relatable and emotionally vibrant form into a boring pony show.
The main obstacle is that people relate to words more than melody. Pop has lots of words, solos are places to dance, not listen for content, that's an INTELLECTUAL pursuit in the midst of a Dance Contest. You have to LISTEN, but they want to be SEEN. Best illustrated by Bruce Hornsby in _The Changes._ "It's us against them tonight..."
Nope. I love instrumental music. I grew up with movies, series, anime and videogame sountracks, most of them instrumental. And I love that music. Stop seeing a "problem" where there isn't. People who hate jazz are sometimes people with music education and knowledge. We simply dislike chromatic and random stuff. Get over it.
Jazz has become so academic and rigid(Wynton Marsalis). Any deviation, is met with distrust and dislike. I Love Monk! Monk Rules!
The issue is that music is culture and culture is cyclical. Jazz probably reached its peak in popularity in the 1930's during the swing music era. The young people were going nuts over swing music and it was a widespread cultural phenomenon. Things changed when WW2 hit and the music industry was impacted. Jazz remained popular in the 40's and 50's, but not to the level of the swing era. And when the 50's hit R&B and rocknroll hit it big and younger audiences were not flocking to jazz like they did in swing era.
But as I pointed out, music culture is cyclical. Before 1990 there was little hip-hop music and then the wave of hip-hop music became a gigantic force for 25 years. I guess my point is, music evolves and the music culture never stays the same.
I still believe that jazz music has a place and there are jazz music fans that want to hear the music. I am a musician that plays live jazz and I also like to attend local shows and touring acts. The music is NOT dead, it is just not the mass culture explosion that hip-hop music became.
First of all I don't even consider Hip-Hop a legitimate music(spoken word with music, maybe, but not music per se in itself); secondly, If you check the FACTS, Jazz was as big as Hip-Hop is now; during the 1930s to the 1960s it was a phenomenon that represented the the brightest minds this world could produce-and though it is said to have originated in America, it exploded and gained a world-wide following during the decades of the 1930s to the 1960s; after that, straight-ahead or real Jazz began to wane in this country, but always continued to have a dedicated following of people from all over this planet who 'saw the light' concerning this genius music they called Jazz.
And if you think I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm now in my mid-60s and if you take the time to talk to someone who is in their 80s, who was a fan of Jazz back in the 1950s and 60s(if they're any older chances are they're dead and gone), they will tell you that Jazz then was "all the rage"; don't have to believe me, just go ask someone else who is a little older who actually lived the music, and if they will be totally honest with you I believe you'll get your answer. 10-7-23.
In related news, the use of the full range of vocabulary words in the English language has decreased greatly.
I sort of like jazz. I prefer baroque (quite a lot actually) but jazz is ok. EXCEPT!!! for the drums. Absolutely loath them. Jazz without drums is ok, I can listen to it sometimes. Add drums and I turn it off. Immediately.
The piano piece at the beginning is a great example. While it is solo piano, I am actually a little interested in listening, to find out if it is going to go somewhere interesting. Then the drums come in and I turn it off.
🤣🤣🤣....you need to take some drum lessons 🥁🥁⭐
I never listen jazz longer then 5 minutes and it is not my cup of tea indeed. BUT! Deep in my heart I know well that this genre is technically requires a lot of knowledge and enthusiasm.
To paraphrase Ronnie Scott " people love jazz, they just don't like how it sounds "
People who like jazz are usually narcissistic. It is something I see again and again. Just read the comments of this video. Most of them are arrogant and abusive, belittling people who dislike jazz. Jazz is to most of people who like it like a brand, a "classy" accesory which they like to hang in their noses to feel superior to others. Most of them actually don't like its sound but they like to see themselves associated with it to feel better about themselves. It is all about image. It's pathetic.
@@asamiyashin444 an Interesting thesis, do you have psychological training? I know a lot of Jazz depressives not sure if that fits with narcissistic types.
@@SimonWhitesideMusic The narcissistic traits are there, written in tons of books and articles. Do your research and thinking by yourself. I have done mine and I know why I think what I think.
@@asamiyashin444 some narcissists like jazz of course others like Rock or classical or folk or whatever music you like to call all people who like jazz narcissistic seems flimsy, and as you are unwilling to defend you argument we shall never know if it holds up under scrutiny . You of course seem certain, paradoxically a trait of narcissistic people.
@@SimonWhitesideMusic I said "are usually". I didn't say all.
I don't see many people from other genres saying the arrogant and pedantic things that I see jazz musicians and fans saying. I don't see them trying to make a "problem" of the fact that there are people who don't like their favourite genre. I don't see them trying to impose their genre on others as "more advanced", and so on. Just reading the commentaries of this video one realizes that most of them have narcissistic traits.
Jazz is a genre which most people associate with being "sophisticated" and "classy", so it tends to attract narcissistic people. I'm just stating a fact. You can confirm it by yourself.
If they replaced the Kenny G in the elevators with Brecker all things would be great
Yes. It was interesting to hear Pat Metheny name Kenny G specifically as what's wrong with people who think that's Jazz.
I have to comment on this.
The further rock or jazz moves away from blues roots, the less people like it. Blues is the source.
If you like a form of jazz (Big Band, early jazz like Armstrong, stuff you can dance to, the Peanuts Christmas Album, Take Five) you no longer think of it as jazz. So by definition, jazz is something you don't like as opposed to particular forms of jazz.
As to the forms of jazz, I'm not a trained musician so I can't tell you why I don't want to listen to it. Same reason I don't care for most prog rock.
The sound effect at 4:51 was hilarious!
I love how you guys take the hate with such a good sense of humor. Personally, I think that part of the problem is that 'jazz" is a label that covers too much disparate kind of music. Dixieland and bebop, for some examples - they don't seem to have much to do with each other besides improvisation. Yet other genres also have improvisation. You can like some kinds of jazz and not like others ( you guys seem to not like smooth jazz, for example).
There is no problem there. Imagine that with another genre. Take heavy metal. Imagine a heavy metal musician saying that people who dislike his music is a problem. Isn't that arrogant, pedantic and authoritarian? Ironically, that attitude makes me hate jazz more.
@@asamiyashin444 Sorry, I don't understand what point you are trying to make relative to my observation.
@@spindriftdrinker Because to me your comment, like many others, seems to imply that people don't really hate all jazz music but just some subgenres. I take that as a denial of the fact that many people, such as me, hate all jazz.
People are making a "problem" out of that like if jazz were some kind of sacred cow that you can't hate. Just read the comments here. Most people are implying that to hate jazz is to have some "problem", whether it be "bad ear", "lack of musical knowledge", etc. It is an arrogant attitude which I don't see in many other genres.
0:14 thanks for transcription. I 've always wondered what time signature the intro has.
Seems to me that most people don't find jazz fun or even relatable anymore. Part of it is the "hipper than thou" attitude for sure, the whole institutionalized, codified, academic NPR, National Endowment for the Arts, Jazz at Lincoln Center vibe. But frankly, nobody seems to be writing catchy tunes anymore. That's why everybody has to play standards, the Great American songbook, etc. Ellington, Charlie Parker, Miles, Coltrane, sure they could play but they also wrote great tunes. Maybe everybody's too busy working on their chops to write good songs? Anyway, I really do love Open Studio, guys. Keep flying the flag!
Once bebop began, jazz musicians began writing music that didn’t appeal to the masses. I don’t think that’s a bad thing though, as I don’t think musicians should have to cater to the hoard of impatient listeners. Standards are just standards, that will always be a thing, but the good tunes of now are likely less accessible for pop listeners and the sort I guess.
@@wesphillips7336 I agree, I wouldn't want musicians or composers to dumb down to be popular. I like the challenging stuff and admire the people who can do it. I just think that's the answer to the question of why so many people say they hate jazz. BTW, it applies to most "classical" music, too.
@@daveolssonmusic luckily music taste seems to be diversifying nowadays and many people seem to be more eclectic in the younger generation than I think most people give them credit for. Maybe people will grow an ear for jazz music that isn’t immediately pleasurable to hear
@@wesphillips7336 I hope that's so. I do think some of the vinyl resurgence among younger people is in part driven by the fun of finding things that are well out of today's mainstream. Whether that translates into more audience for the artists working out of the mainstream today is another question. But we can hope!
@@daveolssonmusic yep, i certainly hope
I've been a jazz musician all my life. My dad was a jazz musician. I love jazz. Who cares if some people don't like jazz? That's they're prerogative. Some people do like jazz. What's the point of engaging in a take down of people who have different taste than you? Being snarky to people who don't like jazz comes across as smug and arrogant, just like the stereotypical jazz musicians that rub them the wrong way in the first place. People don't like jazz because to them, it's boring. Some folks like Burger King, some like gourmet dining. So what?
Title:
Two old dudes discover internet comment sections
You guys are hilarious 😂😂 keep up the great content
I make hip hop and edm and listen to most genres including top 40 pop, but i am trained in classical and jazz music theory and I hate jazz. Well not jazz, because it's the foundation for most american popular musical genres. What I don't like is post bebop smooth jazz or anything that sounds bland or made just for those who already like that style. I like music that inspires emotions in my soul and makes me want to move or fall in love or cry. I like gritty dark melodies and short repetitive motifs. I like a good fugue just like I like a good drum loop. There is a certain joy in repetition when you can build up and break down a simple catchy rhythm or melody and develop a complex foundation on top of something really basic. Modern Jazz is the exact opposite of that.
I also dislike the unnecessary use of extended chords, substitution, modulation, and modal melody when it doesn't significantly improve the piece of music. All things in moderation yet jazz seems to go all out on harmonic complexity which to me just sounds flat and unoriginal.
Rhythm, i enjoy swing and syncopation and polyrhythms. I love a good groove and surprising time signatures. Modern jazz seems to no longer care about making anything danceable or "catchy to non jazz fans.
Jazz used to be pop music and before that it was folk music. Now its intellectual music and it sucks.
Because we’re in a race to the bottom.
Except for a few shining moments, art has been devolving - coincidentally, right along with society in general. We’ve gone from Tchaikovsky to WAP.
Bach to Kid Rock.
Charlie Parker to Kanye.
Blissfully marching backwards.
Yeah, we are in a race to the bottom indeed. That is why in the West medieval music was by far better than jazz. Jazz started along with nihilism, in the decadence of the first half of the XX century. Itself is decadence. In the eighties they took again the scales, chords and modes from classical music, it was a renaissance of good music. They restored mainstream music rescueing it from the 30's, 40's and 50's nihilistic crap.
@@asamiyashin444 comparing medieval music unfavorably to jazz is a pointless exercise.
The 80’s were great but they wealth of melody and harmonic complexity that the music of the early 20th century is unparalleled.
Not everyone can appreciate it, I suppose. But as someone who’s studied music all my life, from my vantage point - you’re off base.
@@AspenTruth What "vantage point"? That sounds pretty arrogant and narcissistic. You probe my point. Jazz attracts narcissistic people.
You don't know what I know about music and you assume that you are above. Not very smart.
And I don't know in what do you base your reasoning to state that we can't compare medieval music with jazz.
And what you call complex melodies I call random out of key chromatic notes. It is not complex to add random notes. Anybody can do that. The medieval monks on the contrary respected the rules of music, which are not man made. They tried to compose music which made sense. They composed for a higher reason than simply their egos. And that applies also to all ancient music from all parts of the world.
Jazz is nihilism applied to music. Medieval music was the opposite of nihilism. If you don't understand that reasoning maybe you shouldn't be so arrogant as to say "not all can appreciate jazz". Maybe it is you who is not understanding deeper.
@@asamiyashin444
thanks for the “above the fray” enlightenment!
Glad I “probed” your point.
Chromatic notes, out of key.
That, for me, is a simply moronic statement. It actually telegraphs exactly where your musicality lies.
Higher purpose? Are you about to put some fairy tale at the center of your argument now?
Good luck…
@@AspenTruth "Moronic", "fairy tale"... You probed my point again. Jazz fans usually are the same kind of narcissistic assholes as the new atheists and other pseudoskeptics. People who don't like what you like and who have other belief systems other than nihilism are despised as "morons" in those circles. Because at the end of the day is all about ego. About feeling superior to others.
Whether you like it or not, people who made the Western music theory, that jazz uses today, believed that music principles were not man made. They made music with a higher purpose than to show off. They believed in objective beauty, objective principles in music, etc. They were Christian so they believed that music was made by the Christian God. That is why they viewed order and principles in music scales and harmonies. But they were not alone. Ancient Chinese music, ancient Japanese music and many other cultures shared similar principles, a scale no longer than 8 tones, a tonal center, the principle of tension-relaxation, etc. And they were all theists. They knew that music was made by a higher intelligence than them and they were humble to just try to understand it, not twist and dominate it. Their music was full of meaning. It was music that tried to communicate a message. They tried to make sense. That people who your kind despise as "backwards" or "morons" were more rational and wise. They set the foundations of music theory which jazz an other nihilistic styles twisted.
I'm not a religious person. But I firmly think that nihilism and atheism are moronic, to use your favourite word. I think that there is objective beauty and objective moral principles. Therefore I despise jazz as ugly, materialistic, nihilistic trash. I don't believe in their "fairy tale" of our brains made by chance and music made by men and therefore being susceptible to random changes. I don't believe their "fairy tale" that we like since childhood what we listen like if our brain was a programable computer. I don't buy that "moronic" shallow bullshit.
You are not as smart as you think. You are simply following the trends of today like sheeps.
Average listener hearing many types of jazz hate it because:
1. Can’t dance to it/has no syncopation rhythm
2. Listener can’t follow the instruments as they can be virtuoso style of playing
3. Melody may be non existent or not played enough or uninteresting
Personally I think these three reasons are at the core. Much of Old jazz had characteristics of being danceable or cool rhythms at the core, singable/memorable/catchy Melodie’s, and didn’t exist with so much of the song being comprised of virtuoso playing- the excessive virtuoso playing alienates the public and it becomes music played by musicians to impress other musicians
I can’t remember the last time I heard music in an elevator 🤔
I think the conversation should be why do people dislike Bebop or certain kinds of jazz. Bebop sounds like rambling more so that many other forms. Big band, gypsy jazz, acid jazz, Bossa nova, and swing focus more on melody and hooks are less busy and more palatable.
So pleased to have found this thing.
The truth is that people don't hate jazz. If they would, that would be a sign of sanity, for jazz is obscene and degenerate - just like people are. And that's why people don't hate jazz.
Perhaps some people may be allergic to swing, but considering the huge expanse different styles and eras of jazz history, it's really hard to imagine that the people who claim to hate jazz have actually listened to the great wide variety of music genres that typically fall under the category of JAZZ...
So you hate Sinatra AND Scofield? You hate Count Basie AND Wayne Shorter? You hate Louis Armstrong AND Horace Silver?
When people like a form of jazz they don't consider it jazz.
My mom kept saying how much she hated jazz and that it was her least favorite type of music, and I said, "What about Frank Sinatra? His music is jazz.", and she said "I guess you're right. There is some jazz that I like."
The emperor has no clothes, swing doesn't exist. It is just music in triplets with a silence in the note of the middle. It has been around for millennia. In Celtic music, to mention just an example, it is used a lot.
I hate jazz and I don't hate jumpy rhythms. I like Irish folk music, for example, and they do what I said above, which sounds exactly like "swing". I don't get why there are so many people in these comments inventing poor excuses to "explain" why people dislike jazz, as if that was a problem. It is not.
I hate jazz because musically it doesn't make sense. It's random. Get over it. Many people understand music and hate jazz.
i love jazz...its simply magical
Who cares if people hate jazz, jazz is for the musicians, it's the musicians music.
Is this Grant Koeller, the brilliant alto saxophonist formerlu=[]y stationed at Hanscom AFB?? How are you my old friend??
No wonder people hate It, the artists are dipshits
I think, to some people, jazz can sound like a bunch of unfriendly snobs jerking off with a bunch of scales and arpeggios, over and over and over again...I however, like jazz conceptually, and LOVE it when played by the best musicians. It actually occupies 98% of my music listening.
I don’t talk about my love of jazz because 9/10 they tell me they hate it this poem sums it up for me
Travel and tell no one,
live a true love story and tell no one,
live happily and tell no one,
people ruin beautiful things…
Khalil Gibran
In the early twentieth century, jazz was the mainstream of popular music. Why has jazz fallen out of favor? You may as well be asking why isn’t Gregorian chant popular anymore, or why are so few people listening to baroque music? The reason is the same. Times change, society changes, art, music and fashion change, and people move on.
"You're only making it worse" . Some Monty Python knowledge needed.
Jehovah, Jehovah, Jehovah!!!
I love jazz, but most contemporary jazz sounds all the same: over-polished, lacking swing, bland, not hip.
I enjoy a lot of jazz and jazz artists BUT many of the standards, show tunes, and ballads are a real buzzkill.
The main reason i hate jazz, is because of jazz musicians i've met.
They all have this really annoying air about themselves, and take themselves way too serious. For some reason they feel superior, besides, all that randomeness just does not sound good to me... Want to make Berklee guys pissed, just say : jazz.SUx!
See, not all Jazz musicians are arrogant. Yes, A lot of them are arrogant. The reason, Most of them believe that Jazz is a superior form of music. The reason they believe this is because it takes an extraordinary amount of skill of to become good at Jazz. I am a classically trained Guitarist, I can play anything from Paganini to Mozart to Chopin to Debussy. I am somewhat good at improv but trust me the skill that it takes too become a good jazz guitarist is crazy. You need hundreds of hours of practice to become good at it and along with that love for it. This makes them arrogant. This makes them show-off.
You said that" Randomness just does not sound good to me...". No, Jazz is not random. If anything it is not random. It may sound random, It is not. The reason it sounds random, Is due to improvisation. In Jazz, there is a big focus on creativity. Especially, in soloing. A jazz solo is like a storyline. Also, not all Jazz songs sound "random". Hard Bop usually has a lot of good melody. You have only the tip of the Jazz Iceberg, my friend. Until, you dive deep. You will never understand what Jazz is.
@@thefausty5195 that second part of your comment.... You just made my point 🙄
@@fernyfloresdrummer3568 What do you mean?
@@thefausty5195 just forget Ferny's comment. Another jazz hater... that's all. I guess he was saying that the 2nd part of your content was jazz snobby?
But then, if all jazz people are arrogant snobs, then all jazz haters are jealous and butthurt for not understanding.
@@fernyfloresdrummer3568 sometimes things that are true sound pretentious. I’ll give you an example.
Jazz is to most forms of pop what algebra is to addition.
It’s an evolution of the sonic palette.
What/Who's playing in the background, at the beginning? I @want@ it.
I think most people just haven't heard very much jazz at all. There's something for everyone. Fusion jazz is especially accessible to those who already like whatever genre it (Fusion) is fusing jazz with in that moment. That's how I got into jazz-- from hearing fusion that had rock-derived elements that I already understood and enjoyed.
Jazz fusion is the worst
I don't like frantic jazz.
I like melodic jazz I can sing.
I searched "jazz is horrible" and up you came.
'Traditional' jazz is really hard to play well. Resulting in lots of jazz musicians playing badly. Then if you're following the belief "innovation is the tradition" than often the music sounds like a combination of anything and nothing: Armenian folk music instruments playing Hank Williams songs with a bill frissell guitar pedalboard lead by an avant garde punk rock alto saxophone. So if you're really careful about who's on the bill, going to a jazz concert can be great and anyone likes it, but take extreme caution.
People who say jazz is elevator music simply have no clue. Obviously, if your knowledge of jazz is based on false stereotypes and "jazz music for studying" videos, what do you expect? If they were to explore bebop, hard bop, or jazz fusion, I doubt they'd feel the same way. It's like saying all heavy metal sounds the same and is just screaming because you've never listened to more than one song. Even without listening much to that genre, I know that's not true.
People who think jazz is elevator music have only ever listened to Kenny G. Which is not jazz. Jazz is social and communicative music. Which is not Kenny G.
but the Jazz never hate you, I love very much Jazz...
I love Jazz!!!
I feel like people don’t like jazz because they can’t understand it. It’s boring if you’re unable to appreciate the key changes and the complexity of the playing. I feel like jazz is appreciated by mostly musicians imo.
Title of the video, "why do people hate Jazz?" Them- playing jazz background music immediately. Me- WTF?
thank you!
Hate Jazz ?...impossible...
👊❤️➕️🇵🇱➕️❤️👊
Let's go back to early 60's with Charles Lloyd and ensembles where the music was journey of colors. Today's drummer should use more wrists verses pounding and get away from r&b meters.
Makes some people feel stupid. When some people feel stupid, they get defensive and hostile.
Jazz by itself doesn't make me feel stupid. I simply dislike their harmonies and melodies (when they have). I don't like getting insulted by dudes who like jazz, though. Do you see the difference?
Music doesn't make you feel stupid, narcissistic abusive people do.
@@asamiyashin444 Point taken, and I didn’t mean to be abusive. I don’t think people are stupid if they don’t like jazz. And I don’t think anyone deserves to feel stupid.
Yah Jazz the point When Music turns into Music for Musicians! Like Artsy-fartsy Indi films made for Film Creators!
Jazz: Fun to Preform Not Enjoyable to listen to! Then again I like Trance-Drone type music sooo... yah....
Sounds like something someone would say if they couldn’t name three jazz albums they had listened too.
Because it's instrumental virtuosity based instead of being composition based ? With GENERIC " improvisation " lines ?
I only listen to Jazz when I test my audiphile equipment but I don't like the music 😂
I hate jazz because I can't play it!! lol. (Yet!)
The only Jazz I like is the one in cartoons, Tom and Jerry and the like
As Paul Thompkins said “Jazz is a form of music defying you to like it.” Most Jazz is crap. A few good songs. But usually just nonsense.
I think the musicians are awesome and talented. I can't stand the music though. All of it sounds like hitting the wrong note over and over again and just rolling with it. Plus it lacks the rhythm and melody I prefer. Pure preference and pure hatred
Some of it is the role each individual expects/wants music to play. Some people want music that doesn't require much of their attention; some Jazz fans seek out ever-more-challenging listening, for example, big-band music starting with DE and moving to DE (Duke Ellington to Don Ellis) and beyond.
Another thing that gets a lot of hate is 1970s German Heavy Metal, but I recently learned that _Sails of Charon_ might be a gateway drug. ruclips.net/video/Zs5NOrYYV2s/видео.html
Or, it might just be a one-off that has novelty appeal.
Again the typical and arrogant prejudice that if you don't like jazz then you are "simplistic". I listen to music with attention. I'm not a casual music listener. I like many genres varying from pop to videogame soundtracks, even some classical music pieces and I hate jazz because it is nihilistic, pedantic, random and too chromatic to my tastes. People need to get over it, period. Stop trying to impose your favourite genre on others.
@@asamiyashin444 Which people need to "get over it"?
@@drwalker9093 I'm pretty happy listening to the music I like and avoiding jazz.
Jazz chords are great, but only for playing jazz.
When I listen to real good jazz musicians playing most popular pop songs, the chords are so detached from the song.
Its because jazz sounds like every person in the band is playing solo! Talk about music to create road rage!!!
I honestly don't care, let them be and enjoy their own music. I want to enjoy mine, win-win solution.
Pete Rogene used to tell the class, the non-Jazzers who had to take a music history class, "If you listen to Bird long enough, you'll start hearing it." I'll add this: learning Jazz gives you big ears. Learning and transcribing inside stuff is like spreading warm butter after you've messed with harmony and modes a bit...
Why does it always seem like jazz musicians are allergic to the concept of a key signature? They seem quite aware of the existence of a key and do everything in their power to avoid one. I am quite familiar with many eastern and African scales, microtones , play sitar, love gamelan, but there are many modern styles of jazz that are the only thing that just sounds musically wrong to me. Why is that, why the pervasive creation of anti-music?
Interesting point of view but some times dissonance can be where its at same as playing against the beat can also be a thing. As Thelonious Monk said about his approach to Jazz was as follows, "Some folk like to play the black notes some go for the white notes but I like the ones in between" Jazz like modern art is an evolving art form and that can be a challenge for the musician and the listener.
Because jazz is post-modernism and nihilism applied to music. Narcissism is closely related to it. If you read commentaries here from jazz fanboys you will see how abusive and narcissistic they are. They gaslight, project, show grandiose fantasies, belittle others, etc.
And yes, keys are not a Western "cultural construct" as those nihilists imply. You can see the same concept universally. Ancient Japanese, Chinese, Arab, African, tribal music... You name it. All of that music share the concept of a key. The concept of tension - resolution is essential to music. You can't have music if all the time there is tension.
Jazz fans are like post-modern "artists" trying to convince themselves and people around them that a cow excrement inside a glass is "art". The emperor has no clothes.
@@Guitar6ty Music is perennial. The rules of music are not man made and they don't "evolve". That is a wrong concept of the modern and post-modern world.
It's really quite simple. Jazz has no discernible melody, a lot of dissonance and sounds horrible. Our ears are trained at a very young age to listen for melodic hooks, nice chords, and harmonies. Jazz has none of these. And the players are often aloof and boring as well.
Jazz and swing was killed by the 4/4 rythm of rock and pop music. Nothing swings anymore. So if you grow up with only 4/4 music and you are conditioned to THAt you sooner or later start to hate anything else like jazz, classic, flamenco etc. I have witnessed this among my peers. They are trained over decades to 4/4 music. They just are not able to listen to anything other than that.Their brain just can not muster is. This is true not only for Jazz but for Progrock like Genesis with different meters or odd time signatures. In the 70ies every Saturdy evening Quiz show here in Germanyx they had big great Swing Bands like Max Greger Band / Kurt Edelhagen big band / James Last big band who did not play hard jazz but it had swing. People were still used to it. Than it vanished within the following years. So watch movies of Woody Allen and you will have great movies and great jazz music.
Why do Americans have to waffle for ages before getting down to the meat and bones. I'm switching off.
The reason is simple, 98% of the population is unmusical. Therefore they have to be given little lumps of sugar called pop.
I search for I hate jazz fusion (despite loving jazz or at least big parts of it - def not all). Truth is most people find because of search and don't the succession of your work/episodes. It's absurd you think people listen to all your stuff in the same way it is extremely unlikely you've listened to all the music of artists you like. To me, most jazz is total guff, just like most pop or metal or any genre or anything... just like most people's contribution to work in their jobs or their contribution to family life. So, discounting ALL jazz but we can pan most of it - as we can win most "categories" of art... But we can also say then that alike other genres/categories, most jazz is sh*t. And therefore most jazz should be considered average at best and most criticism, is therefore fair. So don't get butt hurt about.
I searched the term "I hate Jazz Fusion" after hearing a bunch of Zappa albums and two by Weather Report and wondering what an Earth people like about it... expecting to hear a defense or study of it. I am constantly confused and disgusted by people who enjoy things like Snarky Puppy's live stuff where few members of the audience pull jazz faces whilst most people look utterly bemused.
The most obvious criticism of jazz and jazz fusion and sh*t music in general, which should be defensible, (if it is any good) is... "Why do you make it (your music) sound so sh*t?" and "Why and to what end do you do doing everything in your power to be so obtuse and make the worst possible decision in that moment?".
Interesting podcast. I think the term jazz is pretty useless as it could mean anything from Jellyroll to contemporary European Modernist chamber music. Jazz was popular when it catered to dancers, as in the big band era, or when it was focused on singers and songs, but to expect a large audience to enjoy 30 choruses of intentionally dissonant, odd meter instrumental music is a big ask. P.S. I actually like jazz.
It’s not as easy as it looks!
People hate jazz because it has the reputation of being high-brow. They prefer low-brow music that gets people pumping their fists in the air like they just don’t care.
That argument is abusive and reductionist. I know many people, myself included, who hate jazz and like pretty good music, and we don't go to concerts or "pump our fists in the air".
You know, reading these comments I'm starting to realize that jazz is becoming a cult. The attitude of belittling, caricaturizing and insulting people who are not into it is typical of cults.
This is not really anything to do with 'why people hate jazz'. You can't just look at peoples comments and get an answer. The original video stated 7 reasons 1. Sounds complicated 2. Is instrumental 3. Too many men in jazz 4. Is far to Acoustic in sound 5.The musicians are Nerds 6. The compositions are too long. 7. The audience is dumb. Ok I'll grant that some of these reasons are valid. However, none of them are fatal. Surely the main reasons are more complex embracing race, social ecomomic situations, Greed, American Law etc. Jazz is dying in the US! The National Endowment for the Arts report of public participation in the arts (2012) shows that jazz lags behind classical music in its popularity. Only 1.4% of Americans play jazz (as opposed to 3.1% who play classical music). Only 7.8% of Americans have attended at least one jazz event within a year (9.3% for classical music) and the dynamic of public interest in Jazz continues to head down; 38% drop in attendance compared to what was before; the previously stated 2008 report. The report found the average age of jazz fans has gone up from 29 in 1982 to 46 in 2008. It was also estimated that of the young people who did attend jazz concerts (18 to 34 year olds) only 18% of their recorded music collection was Jazz. The Amercan resolution of congress (H.Con.Res.57) that declared jazz 'a rare and valuable national treasure' to which we should devote our attention, support and resources to make certain it is preserved' is testimony to this. (www.congress.gov/bill/105th-congress/house-concurrent-resolution/57/text) Music that is Virile does not need protection and is not referred to as rare. Only endangered species are rare.
Update - Wow I've just been looking at the latest figures from 2012 to 2017 and they show 8.6% of americans listening to jazz live (at least 1 concert per year) so we are on the up again - but are we. The likes of Kenny G are included in that figure with almost half of recorded music sales. www.arts.gov/artistic-fields/research-analysis/arts-data-profiles/arts-data-profile-18
Your reasons for why people hate them don’t make much sense to me, could you elaborate? Also, all music from the past was protected in some way, that’s why we still have it. In the consumer market of music. Protecting music of the contemporary alerts has become less of a priority so less jazz is at the forefront of our minds. As a cultural icon, it should be protected and renewed in interest
That's because jazz licks the balls of every other kind of music, even rap and rap is absolute vulgar filth. Jazz is worse than rap. Jazz is worse than Christian rock. Jazz is worse than anything and everything that is audible. I would rather hear a room full of crying babies and bitching, bitter old women arguing than listen to the ear rape that is jazz music. Worse than that are jazz fans, I hope they all die a painful death while snapping their fingers and tapping their feet to the off tempo beat of a shitty jazz composition. Fuck you all
basically none of these reasons are valid but, good job seeming stupid. No gender doesn't effect music. No complexity is actually pleasing to most ears given the time and patience. No its not acoustic there is plenty of electronics and genre bending. No the musicians are slick ie: MILES FUCKING DAVIS. No the compositions actually are generally 1-6 minutes which considering most techno tracks is short. The audience is dumb? this one you came up with on you're own because you're dumb and you hurt inside. I liked jazz at 12 when I first heard it, because I'm mildly intelligent, no more than that. Don't give idiots credit for not liking something obviously beautiful, you think you're helping, you made us all dumber.
I find it amusing and disturbing that the top comments here are all variations of "Here's the REAL reason people hate jazz"
Jeez. I don't care for jazz for the same reason I don't care for sushi. Pretentious and just tastes bad. Ok, positive thing about jazz? It's way better than the rap that I'm hearing coming out of kids cars these days which is even worse than the rap that came out in the '80s and '90s. Hell, I would put bagpipe music ahead of jazz.
love jazz but not all genres of it. For example, I love big band inspired jazz, or stuff like Pat Metheny. I enjoy a once in a while smooth jazz because we all need something easy to digest. BUT...Freejazz.....NO. I'm sorry but a universe without a degree of order, or something that is too complicated is like something beautiful spoken in a busy and noisey dialect, or said in an overly complicated way.
3:45 in and they're still doing the intro.
Needed this
Here's the short of it-people say they don't like jazz because it's 'over their heads'; it makes them feel real little and people don't like to be made to feel real little. And most people will never admit this, but this is what I find to be the case with a lot of, maybe most, people that are in the world.
Also I'm told it is human nature to dislike anything that they don't understand, especially something that has shown itself to be of such a complex nature as the music of jazz, which again, tends to be over most peoples' heads; at the same time I noticed that everybody likes some type of jazz-like they want to be about "it" but because they find they cannot be(because it's over their heads)they tend to dismiss it.
A sad commentary and indictment of humanity but that's how it is with most people, it appears; always has been-and always will be. 5-10-23.
You are not mentioning that there are many people who have a deep knowledge in music and hate jazz. Many people with classical music background hate and criticize it with many good points.
I can't speak for others but I don't hate if people understand something that I don't understand. That is normal, we can't understand all. But what I really hate is the pedantic attitude of "you don't like jazz because you are too ignorant (simplistic, dumb... Add the pejorative term you like here) to understand it". That is abusive and narcissistic and if you read the comments of this video you are going to see that kind of comments a lot. I don't see that arrogant and intolerant attitude in most of the other music genres. I don't see a rastafari who likes reggae belittling people who don't like it as "simplistic", etc. I don't see a pop singer song writter belittling people who like rock or techno, and so on.
Maybe one of the reasons why so many people hate jazz is because that narcissistic abuse kind of comments coming from jazz fanboys and musicians. People don't like to be forced to like what they dislike. That is violence, so it is understandable.
I think that it is not we, people who have many good reasons to hate jazz who need to improve. You, jazz fanboys need to stop bullying people who hate your genre and get over it. You need to understand that your whole darwinian evolutionary musical piramid in which jazz is at the top is BS.
I think that what YOU have disseminated is BS; there is nothing violent or bullying about telling the truth concerning the music called Jazz and personally, I think you are another one of those assh____ who cannot stand the truth, and it shows in your overly worded diatribe about what you "claim" to be the facts when they are nothing more than personal opinions based on a biased viewpoint(though I am sure you disagree); and as far as classical goes, it is by nature a Eurocentric based music and I can see why in YOUR opinion, people from such a background would criticize it-"with many good points"; go and try to convince someone else about the "merits" of your cause-you have only caused me to look upon you or anyone like you, with disdain and contempt...10-7-23.
P.S.: And for the record-I posted my name as Charles Brazell-not "@charlesbrazell2136"; it appears my enemies(at RUclips)are still at work trying to discredit me/my statements for the truth that I tell. 10-7-23.
People hating jazz is pretty much like hating Spanish, Mandarin, or Hindi. People who speak those languages are like, uh . . . who's the potato over there with the backward baseball cap, Crocs, and can't say hello?
Nice gaslighting attempt (a narcissistic abuse tactic).
Do you know that there are many people with musical knowledge who hate jazz? People who understand the "language" but still hate it? I understand, for example, what a dominant 7th in the tonic major chord is. I hate it though. I find it dissonant. Why do you guys try to impose jazz on others? What is wrong with you, guys? Why that obsession to convince yourselves and others that "if you don't like what I like then you don't understand it"? Don't you realize how arrogant and hateful that attitude is?
it's like melodic drum-n bass for fancy people.
errr uhhhhh errrrrr Idk man most jazz clubs Smell.. then again when you're old!
Drum n bass came after tho
I came with an open mind trying to understand why I don’t like jazz despite liking Bossa Nova and Classical music, but it was hard to keep focused with the horrible music playing in the background. What is that s$&t?
Interesting paradox. Jazz improvisation is all about telling a story. Like Art Blakey shouting encouragement at Lee Morgan... tell your story man. Take that further and you have Coltrane playing on a spiritual level. But if the audience into it I guess it's going to sound too esoteric. Hmmm reminds me of something ...
I don't see any story in random chops without a tonal center jumping around all the time like crazy. Without resolution there can't be any story.