If you're serious about rot and added strength here's how you do it: 1. Use Redwood or Cedar (treated lumber twists way too much) 2. Apply marine (boat) grade penetrating epoxy and fiber glass sheets to the wood. Let it cure. 3. Set the post on top of a layer of concrete and then fill the surrounding hole. Let it cure. 4. Upon curing, apply concrete water sealer around the post on top of the concrete. If there is significant shrinkage, pour sealer in the crack between the post and the concrete. Let it cure. 5. After the seal cures and for the same gap between mentioned in point 4, apply self leveling concrete caulk around post. This will do it. -Gen X Builder...
This channel has a lot of good information and I watch it often because I love figs. I've been putting wooden posts in the ground for decades. There isn't anything wrong per se... but I have a few minor concerns. If you put a post in the ground right it can last 25-30 years or more. If done poorly, you'll be replacing the posts in 5 years. I see some small problems here that might shorten the life of the posts and some questionable information I see often. If you hadn't said not doing your suggestions was a mistake, I wouldn't have spoken up. What's important to remember in my opinion when building a wooden fence is three things need to be present to cause posts to rot: moisture, oxygen, and fungi. It takes time for bacteria to break down wood fibers (sometimes centuries or more.) Consider for example how the peers of Venice are able to hold up the city after many hundreds of years without rotting. The peers are wood, sitting in water, pounded several meters into the mud. In that scenario, there is no fungi or oxygen present. They've excavated Roman pickets that were pounded into the mud of France 2000 years later. Again, no oxygen in the soil. There is still some unrotted wood on the inside of the pickets. It's fungi that we need to primarily be concerned about so you need to keep moisture away from the surface of the post where they will rot the quickest. Next, putting a post on gravel at the bottom of the hole. It's not about wood touching dirt. It's about feeding the fungi that rots wood by supplying it with water and oxygen. For those who ever had the pleasure of replacing an old wooden fence they put up 25 years before they would know the wood underground is usually in the best shape. Posts are gray and oxidated and tend to rot right at the surface where fungi from the surface, moisture, and oxygen are all present. The wood 6 inches below the soil line looks almost exactly like it did the day you put it in. There is just as much moisture found in the gravel below the post as if it's just sitting in the mud down there. Gravel's true benefit is that provides a more solid foundation for which the post can sit. Gravel will help a post from sinking if he's holding weight. A post in dirt is like a nail in wood. Even a little weight over time can cause the post to sink. The rock greatly helps keep the post from sinking and settling. So, yeah. Wow. That's a lot of concrete for what you're building. Hope it's worth the hassle down the road. Always good to remember that what goes in must come out. I went through a concrete phase when I had a horse that liked to sit on my fences. I regretted it when it was time to replace the fence. It was too much for my tractor so I wound up having to dig out most of the concrete, or leaving it in the ground with a sheered off fence post still in it. Otherwise, I can pull up a whole 600 ft fence line in an hour or two. It took an hour or two just for one rotten post sitting in concrete. Eventually, that horse still broke all my fence, and the posts rotted faster than the ones I put in the ground that same day without concrete. I fixed it later with an electrical fence. Much cheaper than concrete, and worked much better at what I was trying to accomplish. My tractor's hydraulics is rated for 2200lbs. Posts buried at 30 inches is a struggle for my tractor to pull out of the ground. With concrete, my tractor is too small and I wind up breaking the post rather than pull it out of the ground with my neighbor's large tractor. If I push the post in concrete I'm likely to break the post at the surface than push it over. Otherwise, even when putting in dirt without concrete, my posts are plumb 10 years later. The nails in the post seem to me to be unnecessary. Even if you pulled straight up, the grip on the post is stronger than you think. The force required to pull the post out of concrete more than exceeds the sheer strength of those screws along with the weight of the concrete. You pull on that post hard enough (and it doesn't sheer at the surface), it's coming up with the concrete wrapped around it. The smooth surface of the lumber is not nearly as smooth as a metal post, and they come up with concrete wrapped around them too. Another thing, concrete is porous and can allow air and moisture to pass through causing the post to rot more quickly. Of course, there is a time and place for concrete, especially if there is lateral pressure on the post. You want it to remain plumb. In your case, you don't have any animals leaning on them, they aren't performing any kind of wind-breaking function and you seem to know what you're doing with regards to the structure itself. As a side note: I wouldn't bury a post for a pole barn. It would be better to build a concrete peer and sit the post on a bracket on top of the concrete rather than embedding the post in concrete. In your case, the design of the structure will keep your posts pointing straight up. There is no need for concrete. And posts have a nasty way of rotting in concrete faster than if you just bury them in the dirt. Now, the only reason I might use concrete if I'm building a privacy fence that has to deal with a lot of wind. Part of having experience is knowing if the extra cost and effort are worth it. I've also learned that sometimes over-engineering proves to be more of a detriment than a benefit. In my opinion 99% of the time it's just best to best to put a coat of FlexSeal around the section six inches above and below the ground and bury the post in dirt. You don't need to seal the end of the post, or put it on rock, or use concrete.
Idk how I've never thought of flex seal.. I paint a thick coat of roofing tar on my post for the entire submerged section to 10" above ground level and pack the hell out of the clay that holds them in place. So far, no worries.
This is interesting...Iv a garden on a slope so looking for ways of levelling sections. If I bury my posts using just flexiseal will it withstand a decking area of 3 x 3 meters without sinking? New to all this gardening landscaping lark. Thanks in advance for any advice.
Depending on the smoothness of the hole when dug, frost heaving can occur if the tube form doesn't go below frost line. Having the form at the top only could create a situation where freeze/thaw has something to push up against. When you mention the concrete will settle, it could actually be freeze/thaw, even when below frost line due to creating a lip below the tube form and/or jagged sides of the concrete due to the original hole serving as the form.
One of the best post videos I've seen to date. Your process and explanation make total sense especially to one that lives in a geographical area rippled by clay.
There a many ways to increase the longevity and strength when setting wood posts in the ground. Three main factors will affect the installation of the wooden post: 1. Region (climate) - more specifically, the frostline depth in your area 2. Use - what is the post for? A fence, a gate, a lamp post, etc. 3. Time - how long do you want the post in the ground? Will you remove it after a period of time? Setting Post Depths If you want to ensure your wooden post will never move, make sure your post is set so that freezing ground swell cannot push it back up. Here in Saskatchewan, Canada, any pillar / pile must be set at a depth of below 15 feet from grade (ground level). If you really don't want you wooden posts to move, setting a wooden post on a pillar / pile of concrete, which is 20 feet deep, will ensure this. Check your area to see how deep you need to go to beat the frost. Wooden Post Longevity 1. Coatings - there are many ways you can increase the 'rot-time' of your treated posts. An old fashioned method is to coat the post bottoms in used motor oil, allowing them to soak up the oil before placing a coat of tar (roofing or basement foundation tar) on them. Painting your posts with several coats of paint will also increase the time it will take for wood to rot. 2. Collar Rot - ensuring your coatings comes above ground level, when the post is set, will prevent the post from rotting where it contacts the ground. Installing a short sonotube (circular cardboard collar) filled with concrete, will make sure this will not happen, however, water can still seep in between the concrete and wood, eventually rotting the post away. To avoid this from happening, caulk around the base of the post, where the concrete ends. This will have to be maintained...every 3 to 5 years it will need to be inspected. 3. Bottom Rot - if setting a wooden post in concrete, placing a 'spacer' between the bottom of your post and the bottom of the hole is a good idea. Wood screws could be used here again, but a piece of rebar, drilled into the end of the post, could be stronger. Strength 1. Will You Remove the Post Later? - if for some reason you want to remove the post later, hand tamping the post in place, with a mixture of soil and gravel, would be the best option. This was the traditional way to set wooden posts for fences. To remove a tamped post, using a Jack-all and a piece of 2X4, screwed into the post your lifting, will work. Posts set in concrete can be removed this way too, but it is much more difficult. 2. Foam - there is a two-part foam which some people are starting to use, which expands and fills all of the voids in a post hole, essentially friction fitting the post in place. However, any strong force on the post can loosen the contact of the foam to the post, leaving it possible to pull the post straight out of the foam. Adding screws to the sides of the post may be helpful here. 3. Tamping - when tamping a soil / gravel mix around the post, compaction will drive odd sized pebbles / rocks into the side wall of the hole, as well as into the post. This fill friction-fit the post in place, but will also allow you to re-tamp the post, should it come out of alignment, because it can be removed and reset. 4. Concrete - setting a wood post into concrete is far easier than tamping, but it is still labor intensive. The weight of the concrete has an added advantage of keeping the post in the ground, provided that frost does not slowly heave it up over time. Another added value, is that the post can be reinforced to the concrete. By drilling rebar through the post itself, prior to setting it, you can ensure a bond to the concrete is even stronger. Taking it one step further, if you are pouring a pillar / pile under the post, you can tie the rebar through the post to the rebar in the pile. This will make it impossible to remove the post. The downside of this, is that if the wooden post is broken above ground, replacing it be much harder. Steel may be an option at this point. All of these decisions are dependent on the amount of money you can spend, how long you want the post to last, whether or not you want to remove the post later, and how strong you need the post to be. If you do require something strong, steel posts may be the better way to go. Bolting a wooden post down to a steel bracket, on a pile of pad, will only provide as much strength as the bracket or bolts used. This application is better used on steel posts designed to be bolted to concrete pillars / piles. Hope this was helpful? Cheers.
Your post depths seem a little crazy for a 4 X 4 wood post. A 4 foot depth in Ontario will get you below the frost line and prevent heaving. Your solution for collar rot is a good one, as this is a very common break point for fences, caused by high winds. I slather a 1/4" thick layer of caulking over the top surface of the concrete and 6 inches up the post. If it only keeps the water out for 5 years, that's 5 more years before the post can even think about rotting. Half a tube of caulking per post is usually adequate and it's cheap insurance.
It’s a shame you don’t have any videos yourself Tim as you seem like you’ve got a pretty good understanding. Thanks for the information though, I learnt a lot...
@@dosfuegos thanks for the endorsement. I have thought of doing this, from time to time, but I'm an old coot and don't really have the technical savvy to produce videos. Maybe one day I will get my sons to help me. It would keep me out of their hair too...LOL. Cheers.
@@andrewbradbury8527 ...it really depends on how deep the creosote penetrates the wood. I am unfamiliar with using Larch, but any pressure treated wood I've used still requires all cuts to have creosote applied. You can see the depth of the penetration when the wood is cut. Another consideration is how many mechanical fasteners are being used, as well as wood to wood connections where debris, silt, and snow/moisture could collect. This will rot the wood faster. The same applies to where the post meets the ground. If the base is not drained or designed for moisture run-off, rot can take hold there too. I don't think any coating or treatment is 100% fool proof, but inspecting and maintaining wood posts and joints will ultimately add more life to any outdoor wood structure.
I've been watching all videos on post setting and I've decided to apply ALL tips, even applying motor oil and roof seal to the post. I recon by applying all the tips I've found, the post will survive Armageddon.
All I can tell you is if you're setting posts for a garden fence, don't use motor oil, creosote, or anything toxic that will pollute your soil. These posts have been soaked in copper solution, so they're not going to rot anytime soon.
I swear I was thinking the exact same thing. Foam, concrete, roofing asphalt coating, burn the end 50/50 mixture of diesel & used motor oil. Oh some screws for the concrete to grip too. Did I miss anything?
I would add to your 3" reveal and level the tube all the way around, but use less wet concrete at the very end and create a "coned" top of the concrete. If the top is made flat and just pitched one way, there will be one side of the 4x4 where water can collect. If the concrete is 1" higher at the post and angled down to the tube, water will drain away from the post. Great video. Great garden!
Outstandingly clear and thoughtful commentary - Thank You. Not sure what your annual rainfall and soil permeability is, but posts set that deep in my area (Bristol, UK) will be into the water table. My approach has been to cast a column of concrete, raised as is yours above soil level, and to bolt a raised post-base to the top of it, setting it level as the concrete sets. Too early to tell how long it'll last, but I'm happy to be able to see (and to be able to re-treat) the post bases. The drawback of my approach compared to yours is that the lateral stability has to be in the superstructure.
Well done! Really old post but My neighbour and I will use some of this for our fence project! We live in the west coast of Canada..Rain..rain..snow...rain..heat...reapeat :)
If you apply a coat of roofing cement to the 4 sides of the post you will significantly reduce the water damage. Apply the roofing cement from the bottom of the post to 3 inches above grade. Add 2 10 penny galvanized to the sides instead of screws. place 2 inches of gravel in the bottom of the hole. Set the post and make sure its plum. add the concrete and trowel the top so that it sheds water. I have installed posts this way for 35 years in South Florida and they have not rotted.
scat4me thanks for your response.. Do the posts are 6x6 redwood, soil is Clay (Pleasanton, CA), the posts needs to be about 9 feet above ground, under can be anything (what do you recommend) having it be. What type of footing would you recommend?
@@bhuleskar1 If I were building the pergola I would dig the hole 16 inches wide by 40 inches deep. I would buy a can of roofing cement and spread it on the 4 verticle sides of the post to 43 inches from the end that is in the ground. I put 3 inches of gravel at the base of the hole to allow drainage. Before setting the post in the hole you should nail 2 or 3 - 8 or 10 penny nails in the post about 2 feet from the end. Nail them at an angle so the head of the nail is pointing up and the bottom pointing down. Set the pole in the hole and make it plumb. Once its set pour your concrete and fill the hole. Trowel the concrete so that the water sheds away from the pole. Poles will always rot at the base at ground level. By using thee roofing cement on the sides (NOT THE BOTTOM) it protects the pole from moisture. The gravel at the bottom of the hole allows for drainage. The nails at the base will ensure the poles cant be pulled out of the concrete. The poles will absorb water but they will drain. You could also do this with 4x4 pressure treated lumber and afterward wrap the poles in redwood or cedar. That would be less expensive and possibly more durable. If you do use 4x4s reduce the width of the hole to 14 inches. I hope this helps.
If your truly worried about fence rot, then simply do a full concrete post, and set a post mount on top. If the wood rots, you simply unbolt it and replace it. Just make sure your concrete foot goes deep enough, and has a good base to prevent heaving if you live in a cold zone.
42" here in Michigan, I believe, but I'm the type to (at least) slightly "overdo" (over engineer?) things--the next killhouse (deer stand building) I put up will be exactly as you've described here. My first built setup is "settling" where it sits--I just used those concrete "pads" you can get, using the center for 4x4's, or slots for 2x lumber to rest. THAT setup will BE redone within 2 years, and all six 4x4's supporting it will be replaced, and set ON 48" deep, 60" high (12" above ground) footings, at that location...
I have added a collar of concrete above grade, as you are showing in this video to a fence I built 7 years ago. As the concrete cures, it shrinks and cracks. This is the nature of concrete. So for those who are expecting this to look like a nice, tidy round foundation, rely on it cracking because it will. It won't break away, but it will crack and unless you use a very large collar, the cracks will run all thecway from the top of the collar to grade. Maybe further. Still, I think it is worthwhile to do, and even cracked, it looks pretty good. The upside is, once the post rots out (and they all do, eventually) you may be able to cut the post off at the top of the concrete, core out and remove the post, install a post base in the square hole and fill that with concrete. You may even be able to re-use the post, if you can live with it being shorter. Or, just dig a post hole, add the collar, use a post base and set the post above grade. I have done this too, and used welded flying buttresses to add lateral strength. And that is a thing I have never seen except in my own installations. It's hell for stout.
For the record, none of my concrete collars have any cracks. They're all perfect to this day. I used both the Quikrete rapid set concrete in the red bag and the standard in the yellow bag. I had no issues with either. In order to achieve this, I did this during good weather in the winter. Here, the days are usually 50-60 in the winter, and I made sure to do this during nights where we weren't getting close to freezing. The concrete was able to cure in very consistent temperatures in the 45-60 degree range, nonstop. This, I surmise, prevented a lot of cracking that can take place with very hot summer sun hitting the concrete, followed by huge cooling off at night. If you are concerned about cracking, you can hose them down periodically during the day to prevent too much evaporation too quickly. But pouring concrete in that 50-60 degree range really helps!
Well there "G" I'm going to say you in my opinion have covered the post situation in the best logical way out of say eight to ten other presentations.Nice job "G" like why learn from ones mistakes if you can learn not to make mistakes in the first place but even to all that make these presentations I want to give my salute salute just for trying to guide the curious D.I.Y. ya all!!!
Note to self, for future reference. (1:32) Tip #1: Increase strength by drilling screws part way into the part of the wood that is to be encased in concrete. (4:43) Tip #2: Increase resistance to rot by putting a three to six inch layer of gravel beneath the bottom of the post. (6:58) Tip #3: Use a concrete form tube and pour the concrete higher than ground level so water pools against the concrete rather than against the post.
If you can get black locust posts you could just stick em in the dirt without them rotting, it is the best wood ever for posts, there's a 100+yr old fence near my home that was put up that way, no concrete just locust.. Still is solaid as the day it was set.. Problem is finding black locust posts without cutting it down yourself.
I agree entirely - this video is very clear and the camera work is excellent - one can see what is simultaneously being explained. I intend using the above advice to build a vegetable garden fence.
For 6X6 posts for the corners of loafing sheds for horses, we started with a forty-inch hole, poured a four-inch footer of concrete, put two inches of gravel under the post, then six inches of gravel to set the base of the post before filling with concrete. That way we get a "big rock" as a footer, then the base of the post is not in a concrete "cup" and can let water leach out to the soil.
Thank you! I learned a few things for sure! My only concern is the gravel in the bottom of the hole. I live in a rural area and the drainage in my soil is very slow... I have found that the gravel collects water after a rain. Water will take the path of least resistance to pool. This can be a problem as the water will continue to sit in the gravel until the surrounding soil drains below the level of the gravel. So essentially the bottom of the post is sitting in water for extended periods. The deeper the hole, the longer it takes the water to drain away. If you have sandy soil this is not a problem as water tends to drain pretty quickly. But if you have clay soil like mine - not so much. To illustrate I had just finished digging a 36" hole when it started to rain. There was about 18" of water in the hole and it took over a week for it to drain out. Normally I would have put that water to use by dumping my dry mix. But I had to travel for work for most of the week. I guess my point is, know your soil and how well it drains and use a post setting process that best fits that soil. Moving forward I am going to definitely add the screws for anchors and make sure my concrete goes well above ground level. Excellent tips! This is why I love RUclips.
Cowboy Stevo I coated the bottom portion of my posts with thick roofing tar - troweled it on pretty thick and made sure it was worked into the wood real good. Then I set them in concrete and expect them to last for many years. A couple of inches of the tar shows above the ground but I want to make sure they don’t rot right at ground level.
@@danielholtxxl4936 I do the same thing... I also coat the entire post in a 50/50 mixture of used motor oil and diesel fuel. Then coat the bottom of the post with asphalt roof patch. Though I don't cover the end of the bottom of the post. Some moisture is always going to make it into the post, so that gives the water somewhere to wick out.
@@LL-wh3uc Well... what has worked so far is coating the bottom of the 4x4 post with roofing tar to above ground level. I don't cover the very bottom of the post. Then bury it in concrete as normal. I have some posts that have been in the ground since 2009 and they appear to be fine. No detectable rot at ground level.
Excellent upgrades. The only thing I do different is I use a galvanized bolt and go all the way through the post instead of the screws. I have also painted the bottom of the post with water proofing. The other thing I'll mention is when you cleaned off your concrete around your form you want to leave a little bit of a dome so that the water can shed to the ground. If it's flat it'll pool on top of that flat surface, as you mention with your pitch. So far my posts have lasted 33 years. In South Florida.
I don't have any issues with water collecting on the tops of the foundations, and we've already had 50 inches of rain this year so far. The pitch is more than adequate. The only comment I'd make is that you want to make sure the waterproofing compound is non-toxic if you're installing posts for a garden like I did. I wouldn't want any potentially toxic chemicals in my growing soil.
I learned something today. I usually use put 2ft of the circular form into the hole and fill it with concrete. Nice idea to fill the hole with concrete and just use 5in of the form on top. Not sure I'll change my ways but a nice idea nevertheless.
I worked on construction crews installing traffic signal pole foundations for years. This was one of the design requirements - the foundation reveal was a critical step.
Thank You for the information. I should have done this on a fence I put in about 6 months ago. One thing I did notice is how the electric company fights the telephone pole decay thing. They slip a water proof sleeve over the end of the pole that's in the earth and I'm pretty sure they coat it with creosote. I did use that idea on some of my posts for my cat corral and it seems to be working pretty good. Again, thank you for a great video.
Adding multiple coats of water sealer doubles the life of pressure treated, add clear silicone at all wood to cement transitions and with this standard of fence posting you should have a good 20 years no touch fence...
That's great insight about the screws 4 support, also exposing the top of the concrete is also great advise thank u for your insight. Keep up the good work looks great 👍
What a great idea and so simple to do with the screws, wish I would have saw this video before I planted all mine years ago, of course RUclips wasn't around back then!🙃 Thanks for posting.✌️
My friend, that is a glorious looking raised bed system. I love the elegance of the wood. Your tips and tricks are awesome. I like how you have the 4x4's on the perimeter. You can suspend all sorts of trellises with that. Man, your setup is pure awesome.
Thank you. I’m a design engineer, so I designed the entire layout myself to maximize both space and function. I wanted to grow as much food in as little space as possible, and I went through several designs before I settled on this. If you check out my most recent videos, you can see how I trellis my tomatoes and cucumbers. I have a whole system going. Vertical gardening is where it’s at for disease sensitive plants! Thanks for watching!
@@TheMillennialGardener most definitely my friend, string trellising is the way to go for cukes and tomatoes. I just saw your video. If you grow thru December, you will for sure have excess vine. In your video, you opted to coil the excess under the plant. Have you considered "string walking"? I'm sure you've heard of the idea. Essentially, you lower the plant once it's reached the top. Then you shift the plant to the left or right, doing so in unison for all your plants. Your planters are wide enough to allow two plants. You could potentially lower and rotate the plants in one direction, wrapping around at the ends. I am sure you have already thought of this because you chose to use tomato hooks which can slide along your top rail. I personally did not do this because I had an abundance of tomatoes. I was testing out a way where I let one of the suckers near the bottom grow out as the plant reaches the top. The idea is to time it so that the chosen sucker grows becomes the primary. I just then lop off the existing main branch. Then repeat. That way, I don't have to deal with coiling or string walking. My thought is to reduce the distance that nutrients have to travel to reach the fruits. Anyways, I digress. Happy growing!
im a 69 yrs old men and everyday i learn somethng new you have good ideas for the post i was thinking idont know but instead of the screws why dont drill a couple of holes across the 4x4 and put pieces of ribbar for more support just my 2 cents thank you
Screws do nothing but introduce more moisture into the wood and increases rot. Concrete ATTRACTS WATER and increases rot. I used to use concrete but its terrible on posts.
Great information, thank you very much for sharing. I'm putting a grapevine trellis over my 10' X 16' patio using these 4X4 posts. Before installing the post, I plan to coat the lower 40 inches with Black Dip Rubberized Coating to add extra post-life. Keep up the great work.
Be sure not to coat the very bottom leaving an escape route for any pos moisture other wise your just giving it a place to pool ...The Millennial Gardner should use this hack as well its the only thing he missed ,good luck too ya.
Absolutely fantastic video……I have been looking at quite a few videos to see the way to put in face posts. I am 67 yr old from Scotland and want to do this myself but want to get it right. Your suggestion to put screws into the post is something nobody else has mentioned and I can see a great benefit doing this. Can you tell me…. I know you said to make a hole 40” deep to give 4” inches of gravel……. What diameter should the hole be if using 4 x 4 inch posts? Is there something you would recommend to hire to dig out the hole in the first place? I know I probably speak for everyone when I say your explanation and attention to detail is excellent. You explain things in a simple to understand way……. Thank You so much… it’s appreciated
I’m glad you enjoyed the video! Ideally, the hole will be about 12 inches in diameter for a 4x4 post. My holes were 12 inches at the top, but it got really hard to hand dig and keep the width by the time you got to the bottom, so they’d narrow some some 8-10 inches. I used a regular manual post hole digger. It gets the job done, but it works. You can look into renting or buying an auger.
I know this is a really common way of setting posts for fences. Here are a few views I've recently heard: someone said that the concrete around the post acts as a sponge absorbing ground moisture. Another person said to paint the entire bottom in concrete with tar or roof cement. Another view was this creates a glass effect for moisture to sit in from above. My thought would be to paint the sides that touch cement to allow the post to breathe up and down against the gravel base. I agree to have reveal and not let soil pool around the base. What do your fence panels look like? I needed a fence around my garden, between the birds, squirrels, rabbits, ground hogs, raccoons, opposum and deer they were eating all of my vegetables.
I have been doing that exact same thing but usually with 4 screws to all four sides of the posts at 2 feet in ground and 8 feet above and every four feet with another post. This was from 2002 and the posts are still solid but the other key was using a square-coiled 3/8th inch rebar but it was easier to use a concrete mesh cut to two feet and folded into a square hollow rod that fits in the two foot ground area that will be in the ground and the four nails are wired to the mesh to keep it still. When you pour the concrete, you will also always elevate it by 5 to 6 inches above ground using a square that is 2 inches wider than the 4X4 which means the square is about 2 to 3 inches wider than the 4X4 post. It seems like a lot of work but I just took my time for each post while listening to NPR radio or French pop music.
When we build new decks and fences, we have a custom 12,000lb winch setup that pulls the posts out and the concrete comes with 98% of them. No need to put in a few screws. 12,000lbs of vertical force which lifts the concrete with the post won’t change with a few screws.
I cut the top and bottom off 2L and 3L bottles and slide it over the post and then heat gun it so it acts like oversized heatshrink, 6inches above ground and 6inches below works well.
In addition I put 2 coats of asphalt emulsion (e.g Henry Sealer & Damp Proofer) to the area of the post that is in the ground plus 6" above ground level. I usually do not paint the entire bottom. This further protects the post from rotting. Another trick is to buy 120% of the posts needed several weeks in advance, lay them on a flat surface with spacers and let them dry thoroughly before using. It will increase the life of the screws, allow immediate painting and you can return any warpped posts to the store for a refund.
And dont forget the top of the post. Rain sets on top and seeps down the grains of your post. You can set a container over the top of the post. Bird houses are good to protect your post.
Pressure treated wood is soaked, so the copper preservative penetrates the insides. My concern with rain touching the top is pretty low, and I'm only concerned with the posts sitting in continually wet ground.
OH! I'M SORRY!! DIDNT KNOW YOUR WAY, was the only way. I gues i should shut up and learn from you! Guess my 62 year old farmer's brain needs to learn from ALL YOUR YEARS OF EXPERIENCE! Exspecially with that MASSIVE garden project!!! Our cucumber bed was bigger than THAT! BAHAHAHA 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣 😎 i got to go and look at my 130 year old cedar split rail fence again and see what was done wrong!!! Lets see. Only tools used was an ax, a couple of wedges, a crowbar, and a sledge. And raw logs... OH, skill too!! I got my skills from the farmer that built that said fence. ABSALUTELY HAVE TO HAVE PRESSURE TREATED WOOD. . ... 🤔🤔🤔😳😳😳🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
Hey brother just wanted to give you some props on your work. I’ve been in construction most of my life and really meticulous and how I do things your beds look beautiful looks all organized all your rose he must be an analyzer like myself because everything looks pimped out.! Just wanted to give you props my friend great job keep up the good work and hopefully you can see my car in one of these days on a video
I did this BUT I also was building a small wooden fence and used 6x6 posts and used 2x6 boards on the top and bottom and 2x4 for the middle and screws on everything. When I place the boards on, each time when I connected to a post, the next board over I went up or down from the location of the previous board so I could utilize the entire 6 inches of space on the post to drive in 6 screws vs how people place the boards side by side on a 4x4 post and get only 2 inches of space to support all that weight. My fences have NEVER failed in windstorms or Hurricane Katrina and Ida and are still standing. Do it...do it right the first time
Try Simpson Tie Galvanized Column Base for 4x4 Nominal Lumber. Then you dig 2ft at the “most”. Post never touched soil. A lot easier, less time and effort and it will last even longer.
I like this idea! I'm new to all of this and seeing way too many comments about the wood eventually rotting if installed straight in concrete. Does the wood in the method you describe still have to be rated for ground contact? Or will standard pressure treated wood work? Thanks for your comment!
With respect and in the spirit of positive conversation: - The screws will penetrate the chemical barrier and actually cause rot in the timber. - The concrete reveal prevents any rails or palings being set against the post so wouldn’t make a neat fence. I have no issue with the gravel :)
All very good ideas. While watching this another method of preventing the post which could be combined with the screws or used stand alone would be to cut two V grooves 3/4" deep on each side of the post where there are no screws. - just a thought :)
While I like the idea of having the concrete end above the ground to prevent standing water at the post base. I have never been able to pull any post from the concrete it was set in. I think the screws are overkill and fixing a problem that doesn't exist.
I won't say the screws do nothing but assuming the post isn't yanked around before the concrete sets the only possible difference is in it's resistance to lifting straight out of the hole. Nothing short of a moose getting frisky or a twister should apply enough upward pull to make the screws matter here, imo. Not sure about with pressure treated but both scorching the surface of untreated wood and applying sealers, even just motor oil, are tricks to make wood last much longer in ground contact. I've even heard of wrapping plastic around the bottom of a post before pouring the concrete in. I keep meaning to try charring then sealer in combination but haven't heard of anyone risking it with pressure treated.
If you insist on doing this wrap the post with 30 pound felt to create a drainage plane. Pressure treatment will not help guard against rot because the concrete holds moisture. Embedding screws into the post will only allow moisture to penetrate deeper into the post. Pressure treatment usually does not go thru the entire post.
In clay soil it may not be a good idea to place gravel beneath the post. Why not? Because the height of the water table in clay will always be higher than the height of the water table in gravel. Therefore, if you put gravel in the hole it will create a capillary break that will cause water to flow TOWARDS the post not away from it. The water that enters the gravel can’t drain as there is impermeable clay around and beneath it, so it just sits in the gravel “cup”. Over time, the rise and fall of water table, if present, will rot out the bottom of the post. This is not an issue in well-drained sandy soil nor is it a serious issue even in clayey soil IF the capillary fringe on the water table remains below the bottom of the posts. Otherwise job well done. Hope that helps.
Great tips 👍. I used 1/4"x 6"stainless lag screws in every footing for the floor joists of my wife's craftroom. Always opt for douglas fir pressure treated lumber if available (usually at lumberyards), little more expensive, but waaay better than hem-fir (you can read online articles that basically sugar coat hem-fir's inferior viability, but it will NEVER last as long as douglas fir pressure treated). If you're gonna do something right...start from the foundation 👍.
Roddy Piper for these garden beds, I went with basic Lowe’s #2 Prime, but for something structural, I agree. The warping alone can be terrible on this cheap stuff.
Thanks, My issue is that over time the post will rot. How many times do I see posts with concrete at the curb. Who wants that? Great set up though. I'm on to watching your garlic video
I paint the bottom 3' of my posts with roofing tar and pack gravel and clay to set them. Last just as long, just as sturdy and will be easier to remove them when it's time for replacement.
I would strongly recommend against coating with tar, creosote or any of those other chemicals due to contaminated soil. I would not want to grow anything in that ground.
I've got all these supplies, first post is ready for concrete. But please let me know if I can put fast set down in the hole, add water, then top it off for the reveal with the high strength concrete mixed in a wheelbarrow.
If you angle the form make sure the high side is pointed at a corner of the post and not a side. This will split the water as it runs down. If you point it at a side the water will sit on the high side of the post. I just cut the forms straight and then slope the concrete away from the post on all sides.
So smart! Too bad the guy who installed my privacy fence 15 years ago wasn't smart enough to do that. I've had several posts for and snap off in strong winds. I was considering how I could do it differently. You just solved my problem. Also, I saw your response to someone else about going one third down for fences and below the first line. I believe my code here (Northeast Illinois zone 5) is 36" but it obviously didn't work. Going with your advice when I repair my fence. Now if you could tell me what to do about metal stakes in asphalt. My carport stakes lift when the ground freezes. Lol thanks
Ms. V. Jackson I live on the NC coast, so my ground doesn’t freeze. I don’t have an issue with frost heave. You may want to check what your frost line depth is and ensure you’re deeper than that. It may be deeper than the 1/3 rule. As for your carport, those stakes probably should’ve been embedded in concrete, I’m guessing. Asphalt isn’t structural. It doesn’t hold things in place like concrete does. I’m not an expert on pavement, though.
I don't think I'll be setting any posts myself, but very informative video. Love your new garden design! That is awesome and can't wait to see what you do with it. No "big" projects for me, but I moved into my 100+ year-old house last Fall so this Spring I'll be making a few raised beds for my veg garden this summer. Hopefully I'll be able to expand it next year but trying to stay realistic & do a little at a time.
Congrats on the new home! That’s huge. I’ve been slowly building my garden for 2 seasons, and I think it’ll take me 2 more years to finish my plot. Definitely take your time and build incrementally so you don’t burn out, but I encourage you to sketch a plan. Having a “big picture” helped me. I’m working toward something, and tackling it a little every month makes it manageable. Thanks for watching.
It wouldn't hurt to tar up the bottom of the post after you put screws in them. Concrete footing needs to be thicker or make them square to prevent cracking at the corners of the post where concrete is just a few inches thick. Also, some rebar or hardware cloth imbedded in the footing will prevent cracking.
Rocks in the bottom of the hole. The rock will provide some drainage for some time if you have soil that actually drains. If you have a clay type soil the water doesn't have any were to drain to, the ground prevents that. The clay acts both ways: it makes it harder for water to get to the bottom of your hole and once it gets there it makes it harder for the water to move away from the hole as the hole filled with rock now becomes a, more or less, sealed pond. The best way is to go 6" below the frost line then pour 6" of concrete for the bottom of the post to sit on. The best way which is also the most pain in the ass is to actually suspend the post 6" off the bottom leveled both ways then pour the concrete all the way around the wood. You can get a plastic concrete 4 way chair for the bottom of the post to sit on so that you do not have to suspend the load, just make sure that the chair is tough enough to handle the load or make them out of some bent and welded rebar. Tough to do and slow or expensive if you do more than one hole at a time. Make sure that the concrete has set enough to hold the load before removing the leveling supports 1-2 days unless using high early concrete. For pole barn construction the quick tube or sonotube works well with the cost of the tube being off set on savings on concrete due to oversize holes. Also makes the calculation for the amount of concrete easier X by Y tube holds Z amount of concrete no more, no less. Set your tube 4-6" below the finished grade if you are pouring a slab for the floor, set the posts then pour the floor slab around the posts to the finished grade. If you are tough you can do it all at once.
Instead of tilting the reveal, why not just trowel a slope away from each of the 4 sides? That way it won't pool against the uphill side of the post. I love all your tips.
Form tubes are good,But not if your installing a picket fence (it will get in the way)I fill and spread about 15 inches of white liquid rubber to protect the post from rotting.5 inches above and about 10 inches below .Then pour concrete. Tape lower part of post all around to have a nice clean line when spreading liquid rubber.
I am straightening out my fence from Harvey, YEP, you heard right(LOL), I have meant to do this project for a long time but I work like a mule almost 6 or 7 days a week. Anyways, all the comments are good and differ form how long it is expected to be in the property you live in. I am personally fixing it to the point that meets the HOA guidelines or it is strong enough like for the pickets to stand in place. I use screws all the time, nails take too long to take out and most of the times can't be reused, which, I never do.
Wow, that was a while ago! Florence knocked down a lot of fences in my neighborhood as well. It's never any fun. Fences don't last all that long around these parts!
Concrete ATTRACTS WATER, increases and accelerates rot. I used to use it. It holds moisture against the post. Drilling screws into the post just delivers more moisture into the post.
A R if that were the case, concrete wouldn’t be used as a foundational material in building codes. The fact is, soil has rapidly changing soil moisture characteristics. It can go from sopping wet to bone dry to frozen. Concrete provides a consistent embedment material that does not expand and contract with much with temperatures and does not change much as soil moisture changes. In addition, you don’t know how long your soil will stay wet 3 feet down. Concrete is an insurance policy.
@@TheMillennialGardenerYes concrete is used in foundations. In that application, its a great material. There is no problem with concrete being listed in building codes for that. We are talking about 2 totally different things. What you're saying is completely unrelated to my comment.
I've pulled a lot of posts that were very old and I never was able to just pull the post with out the concrete attached...never was able to even beat the concrete plug off the post...although the screws probably add a little bit of sheer strength under a wind load
I've seen folks pop out concrete caps and posts using chains and floor jacks. It can be done if the concrete is a monolithic pour. If the concrete fractures into pieces, it may require a little more cleanup. We used to pop out light pole foundations with digger derricks and backhoes. Attach chains to the anchor bolts and pull. POP!
The timber posts shrink over time the point of the screws of nails is that despite the shrinkage the concrete will grip the screw, this keeps the post more likely to remain firm in the ground.
It also helps with any upward forces, vibrations or gate attachments. It's one of those steps that takes literally seconds and costs next to no money, so in my opinion, not doing so is silly. Thank you for watching!
Silly? I have built hundreds of post frame buildings. Thousands of posts imbedded. Demolition of some. Observed the durability of many more - some in horribly corrosive conditions. I have some simple and I hope we'll received advice: Quit over thinking the process and then passing it on as some sort of wisdom. I could rant for pages about this video and many of the comments adding their little bit of "expertise" - I won't. I will sum it up this way: Yours and many others present an academic exercise in perspective that doesn't match the real world.
That's great to hear. I hope my posts last that long! I know they say, "They don't make 'em like they used to," though, so I have my doubts that today's cheap-o sapling lumber will last as long.
Not sure where you live or the climate. In Canada never keep the cement above ground. Ice and thaw will heave and pull the post out of the ground. Personally it's overkill. Keep the cement low. Btw farmers have fences. They don't use cement. They stay straight and are still fine after 100 years. Just saying.
Somehow I deleted my question and your response after I read it and tried to respond, So, to repeat: I thought it might be simple but I wasn't sure since I've never used the tubes. Thank you very much for your response.
Do you have any big DIY projects recently completed or coming up on your to-do list? Tell us about them in the Comments section below!
tar the bottoms the new pt wood sucks
If you're serious about rot and added strength here's how you do it:
1. Use Redwood or Cedar (treated lumber twists way too much)
2. Apply marine (boat) grade penetrating epoxy and fiber glass sheets to the wood. Let it cure.
3. Set the post on top of a layer of concrete and then fill the surrounding hole. Let it cure.
4. Upon curing, apply concrete water sealer around the post on top of the concrete. If there is significant shrinkage, pour sealer in the crack between the post and the concrete. Let it cure.
5. After the seal cures and for the same gap between mentioned in point 4, apply self leveling concrete caulk around post.
This will do it.
-Gen X Builder...
@@d.e303-anewlowcosthomebuil7 whats pt stand for? Where can I get tar?
@@lchavez5924 is the red wood or cedar pressure treated and used for in ground?
@@ShyRage1 pressure treated....basement waterproofing tar
This channel has a lot of good information and I watch it often because I love figs. I've been putting wooden posts in the ground for decades. There isn't anything wrong per se... but I have a few minor concerns. If you put a post in the ground right it can last 25-30 years or more. If done poorly, you'll be replacing the posts in 5 years. I see some small problems here that might shorten the life of the posts and some questionable information I see often. If you hadn't said not doing your suggestions was a mistake, I wouldn't have spoken up.
What's important to remember in my opinion when building a wooden fence is three things need to be present to cause posts to rot: moisture, oxygen, and fungi. It takes time for bacteria to break down wood fibers (sometimes centuries or more.) Consider for example how the peers of Venice are able to hold up the city after many hundreds of years without rotting. The peers are wood, sitting in water, pounded several meters into the mud. In that scenario, there is no fungi or oxygen present. They've excavated Roman pickets that were pounded into the mud of France 2000 years later. Again, no oxygen in the soil. There is still some unrotted wood on the inside of the pickets. It's fungi that we need to primarily be concerned about so you need to keep moisture away from the surface of the post where they will rot the quickest.
Next, putting a post on gravel at the bottom of the hole. It's not about wood touching dirt. It's about feeding the fungi that rots wood by supplying it with water and oxygen. For those who ever had the pleasure of replacing an old wooden fence they put up 25 years before they would know the wood underground is usually in the best shape. Posts are gray and oxidated and tend to rot right at the surface where fungi from the surface, moisture, and oxygen are all present. The wood 6 inches below the soil line looks almost exactly like it did the day you put it in. There is just as much moisture found in the gravel below the post as if it's just sitting in the mud down there. Gravel's true benefit is that provides a more solid foundation for which the post can sit. Gravel will help a post from sinking if he's holding weight. A post in dirt is like a nail in wood. Even a little weight over time can cause the post to sink. The rock greatly helps keep the post from sinking and settling.
So, yeah. Wow. That's a lot of concrete for what you're building. Hope it's worth the hassle down the road. Always good to remember that what goes in must come out. I went through a concrete phase when I had a horse that liked to sit on my fences. I regretted it when it was time to replace the fence. It was too much for my tractor so I wound up having to dig out most of the concrete, or leaving it in the ground with a sheered off fence post still in it. Otherwise, I can pull up a whole 600 ft fence line in an hour or two. It took an hour or two just for one rotten post sitting in concrete. Eventually, that horse still broke all my fence, and the posts rotted faster than the ones I put in the ground that same day without concrete. I fixed it later with an electrical fence. Much cheaper than concrete, and worked much better at what I was trying to accomplish. My tractor's hydraulics is rated for 2200lbs. Posts buried at 30 inches is a struggle for my tractor to pull out of the ground. With concrete, my tractor is too small and I wind up breaking the post rather than pull it out of the ground with my neighbor's large tractor. If I push the post in concrete I'm likely to break the post at the surface than push it over. Otherwise, even when putting in dirt without concrete, my posts are plumb 10 years later.
The nails in the post seem to me to be unnecessary. Even if you pulled straight up, the grip on the post is stronger than you think. The force required to pull the post out of concrete more than exceeds the sheer strength of those screws along with the weight of the concrete. You pull on that post hard enough (and it doesn't sheer at the surface), it's coming up with the concrete wrapped around it. The smooth surface of the lumber is not nearly as smooth as a metal post, and they come up with concrete wrapped around them too.
Another thing, concrete is porous and can allow air and moisture to pass through causing the post to rot more quickly. Of course, there is a time and place for concrete, especially if there is lateral pressure on the post. You want it to remain plumb. In your case, you don't have any animals leaning on them, they aren't performing any kind of wind-breaking function and you seem to know what you're doing with regards to the structure itself. As a side note: I wouldn't bury a post for a pole barn. It would be better to build a concrete peer and sit the post on a bracket on top of the concrete rather than embedding the post in concrete. In your case, the design of the structure will keep your posts pointing straight up. There is no need for concrete. And posts have a nasty way of rotting in concrete faster than if you just bury them in the dirt. Now, the only reason I might use concrete if I'm building a privacy fence that has to deal with a lot of wind.
Part of having experience is knowing if the extra cost and effort are worth it. I've also learned that sometimes over-engineering proves to be more of a detriment than a benefit. In my opinion 99% of the time it's just best to best to put a coat of FlexSeal around the section six inches above and below the ground and bury the post in dirt. You don't need to seal the end of the post, or put it on rock, or use concrete.
Agreed, thanks for the input. I prefer to avoid concrete wherever I can., your tips and points are helpful.
Wow ALOT if Information from this video and your comment ... You hold record for RUclips longest comment as well LOL nice info bro
Idk how I've never thought of flex seal.. I paint a thick coat of roofing tar on my post for the entire submerged section to 10" above ground level and pack the hell out of the clay that holds them in place. So far, no worries.
This is interesting...Iv a garden on a slope so looking for ways of levelling sections. If I bury my posts using just flexiseal will it withstand a decking area of 3 x 3 meters without sinking? New to all this gardening landscaping lark. Thanks in advance for any advice.
Depending on the smoothness of the hole when dug, frost heaving can occur if the tube form doesn't go below frost line. Having the form at the top only could create a situation where freeze/thaw has something to push up against. When you mention the concrete will settle, it could actually be freeze/thaw, even when below frost line due to creating a lip below the tube form and/or jagged sides of the concrete due to the original hole serving as the form.
Great work! This is one of the few gems on RUclips that doesn't waste your time, the narration is on point and the tips are fantastic. Well done!
Thank you! I am glad you found it helpful. Thanks for watching.
One of the best post videos I've seen to date. Your process and explanation make total sense especially to one that lives in a geographical area rippled by clay.
There a many ways to increase the longevity and strength when setting wood posts in the ground. Three main factors will affect the installation of the wooden post:
1. Region (climate) - more specifically, the frostline depth in your area
2. Use - what is the post for? A fence, a gate, a lamp post, etc.
3. Time - how long do you want the post in the ground? Will you remove it after a period of time?
Setting Post Depths
If you want to ensure your wooden post will never move, make sure your post is set so that freezing ground swell cannot push it back up. Here in Saskatchewan, Canada, any pillar / pile must be set at a depth of below 15 feet from grade (ground level). If you really don't want you wooden posts to move, setting a wooden post on a pillar / pile of concrete, which is 20 feet deep, will ensure this. Check your area to see how deep you need to go to beat the frost.
Wooden Post Longevity
1. Coatings - there are many ways you can increase the 'rot-time' of your treated posts. An old fashioned method is to coat the post bottoms in used motor oil, allowing them to soak up the oil before placing a coat of tar (roofing or basement foundation tar) on them. Painting your posts with several coats of paint will also increase the time it will take for wood to rot.
2. Collar Rot - ensuring your coatings comes above ground level, when the post is set, will prevent the post from rotting where it contacts the ground. Installing a short sonotube (circular cardboard collar) filled with concrete, will make sure this will not happen, however, water can still seep in between the concrete and wood, eventually rotting the post away. To avoid this from happening, caulk around the base of the post, where the concrete ends. This will have to be maintained...every 3 to 5 years it will need to be inspected.
3. Bottom Rot - if setting a wooden post in concrete, placing a 'spacer' between the bottom of your post and the bottom of the hole is a good idea. Wood screws could be used here again, but a piece of rebar, drilled into the end of the post, could be stronger.
Strength
1. Will You Remove the Post Later? - if for some reason you want to remove the post later, hand tamping the post in place, with a mixture of soil and gravel, would be the best option. This was the traditional way to set wooden posts for fences. To remove a tamped post, using a Jack-all and a piece of 2X4, screwed into the post your lifting, will work. Posts set in concrete can be removed this way too, but it is much more difficult.
2. Foam - there is a two-part foam which some people are starting to use, which expands and fills all of the voids in a post hole, essentially friction fitting the post in place. However, any strong force on the post can loosen the contact of the foam to the post, leaving it possible to pull the post straight out of the foam. Adding screws to the sides of the post may be helpful here.
3. Tamping - when tamping a soil / gravel mix around the post, compaction will drive odd sized pebbles / rocks into the side wall of the hole, as well as into the post. This fill friction-fit the post in place, but will also allow you to re-tamp the post, should it come out of alignment, because it can be removed and reset.
4. Concrete - setting a wood post into concrete is far easier than tamping, but it is still labor intensive. The weight of the concrete has an added advantage of keeping the post in the ground, provided that frost does not slowly heave it up over time. Another added value, is that the post can be reinforced to the concrete. By drilling rebar through the post itself, prior to setting it, you can ensure a bond to the concrete is even stronger. Taking it one step further, if you are pouring a pillar / pile under the post, you can tie the rebar through the post to the rebar in the pile. This will make it impossible to remove the post. The downside of this, is that if the wooden post is broken above ground, replacing it be much harder. Steel may be an option at this point.
All of these decisions are dependent on the amount of money you can spend, how long you want the post to last, whether or not you want to remove the post later, and how strong you need the post to be. If you do require something strong, steel posts may be the better way to go. Bolting a wooden post down to a steel bracket, on a pile of pad, will only provide as much strength as the bracket or bolts used. This application is better used on steel posts designed to be bolted to concrete pillars / piles. Hope this was helpful? Cheers.
Your post depths seem a little crazy for a 4 X 4 wood post. A 4 foot depth in Ontario will get you below the frost line and prevent heaving. Your solution for collar rot is a good one, as this is a very common break point for fences, caused by high winds. I slather a 1/4" thick layer of caulking over the top surface of the concrete and 6 inches up the post. If it only keeps the water out for 5 years, that's 5 more years before the post can even think about rotting. Half a tube of caulking per post is usually adequate and it's cheap insurance.
It’s a shame you don’t have any videos yourself Tim as you seem like you’ve got a pretty good understanding. Thanks for the information though, I learnt a lot...
@@dosfuegos thanks for the endorsement. I have thought of doing this, from time to time, but I'm an old coot and don't really have the technical savvy to produce videos. Maybe one day I will get my sons to help me. It would keep me out of their hair too...LOL. Cheers.
Or buy creosote treated larch, under pressure... last 40 years plus
@@andrewbradbury8527 ...it really depends on how deep the creosote penetrates the wood. I am unfamiliar with using Larch, but any pressure treated wood I've used still requires all cuts to have creosote applied. You can see the depth of the penetration when the wood is cut.
Another consideration is how many mechanical fasteners are being used, as well as wood to wood connections where debris, silt, and snow/moisture could collect. This will rot the wood faster. The same applies to where the post meets the ground. If the base is not drained or designed for moisture run-off, rot can take hold there too.
I don't think any coating or treatment is 100% fool proof, but inspecting and maintaining wood posts and joints will ultimately add more life to any outdoor wood structure.
I've been watching all videos on post setting and I've decided to apply ALL tips, even applying motor oil and roof seal to the post. I recon by applying all the tips I've found, the post will survive Armageddon.
All I can tell you is if you're setting posts for a garden fence, don't use motor oil, creosote, or anything toxic that will pollute your soil. These posts have been soaked in copper solution, so they're not going to rot anytime soon.
I swear I was thinking the exact same thing. Foam, concrete, roofing asphalt coating, burn the end 50/50 mixture of diesel & used motor oil. Oh some screws for the concrete to grip too. Did I miss anything?
I would add to your 3" reveal and level the tube all the way around, but use less wet concrete at the very end and create a "coned" top of the concrete. If the top is made flat and just pitched one way, there will be one side of the 4x4 where water can collect. If the concrete is 1" higher at the post and angled down to the tube, water will drain away from the post. Great video. Great garden!
Wish I had read this before I commented! Good job.
That's my go-to method too. Works a charm. I let the concrete set up 20-30 minutes or so before I form the cone.
How to form/do the cone?
Outstandingly clear and thoughtful commentary - Thank You. Not sure what your annual rainfall and soil permeability is, but posts set that deep in my area (Bristol, UK) will be into the water table. My approach has been to cast a column of concrete, raised as is yours above soil level, and to bolt a raised post-base to the top of it, setting it level as the concrete sets. Too early to tell how long it'll last, but I'm happy to be able to see (and to be able to re-treat) the post bases. The drawback of my approach compared to yours is that the lateral stability has to be in the superstructure.
Well done! Really old post but My neighbour and I will use some of this for our fence project! We live in the west coast of Canada..Rain..rain..snow...rain..heat...reapeat :)
If you apply a coat of roofing cement to the 4 sides of the post you will significantly reduce the water damage. Apply the roofing cement from the bottom of the post to 3 inches above grade. Add 2 10 penny galvanized to the sides instead of screws. place 2 inches of gravel in the bottom of the hole. Set the post and make sure its plum. add the concrete and trowel the top so that it sheds water. I have installed posts this way for 35 years in South Florida and they have not rotted.
Can you please explain this a bit further.. links for material if possible.. I am looking to install my pergola poles in ground.
@@bhuleskar1 What size are the poles, what type of wood, how deep and most important what type of soil? ( what state)
scat4me thanks for your response.. Do the posts are 6x6 redwood, soil is Clay (Pleasanton, CA), the posts needs to be about 9 feet above ground, under can be anything (what do you recommend) having it be. What type of footing would you recommend?
@@bhuleskar1 If I were building the pergola I would dig the hole 16 inches wide by 40 inches deep. I would buy a can of roofing cement and spread it on the 4 verticle sides of the post to 43 inches from the end that is in the ground. I put 3 inches of gravel at the base of the hole to allow drainage. Before setting the post in the hole you should nail 2 or 3 - 8 or 10 penny nails in the post about 2 feet from the end. Nail them at an angle so the head of the nail is pointing up and the bottom pointing down. Set the pole in the hole and make it plumb. Once its set pour your concrete and fill the hole. Trowel the concrete so that the water sheds away from the pole. Poles will always rot at the base at ground level. By using thee roofing cement on the sides (NOT THE BOTTOM) it protects the pole from moisture. The gravel at the bottom of the hole allows for drainage. The nails at the base will ensure the poles cant be pulled out of the concrete. The poles will absorb water but they will drain. You could also do this with 4x4 pressure treated lumber and afterward wrap the poles in redwood or cedar. That would be less expensive and possibly more durable. If you do use 4x4s reduce the width of the hole to 14 inches. I hope this helps.
@@scat4me
Great info and explanation. Thank you for your post. Much appreciated.
Thank you!! This was SO informative! Coming from a first time home buyer and (to be) fence builder on our property
If your truly worried about fence rot, then simply do a full concrete post, and set a post mount on top. If the wood rots, you simply unbolt it and replace it. Just make sure your concrete foot goes deep enough, and has a good base to prevent heaving if you live in a cold zone.
42" here in Michigan, I believe, but I'm the type to (at least) slightly "overdo" (over engineer?) things--the next killhouse (deer stand building) I put up will be exactly as you've described here. My first built setup is "settling" where it sits--I just used those concrete "pads" you can get, using the center for 4x4's, or slots for 2x lumber to rest. THAT setup will BE redone within 2 years, and all six 4x4's supporting it will be replaced, and set ON 48" deep, 60" high (12" above ground) footings, at that location...
Will the post to post base connection be ok in windy areas?
Finally the right way to set a post to last, great video. Thanks.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching!
I have added a collar of concrete above grade, as you are showing in this video to a fence I built 7 years ago. As the concrete cures, it shrinks and cracks. This is the nature of concrete. So for those who are expecting this to look like a nice, tidy round foundation, rely on it cracking because it will. It won't break away, but it will crack and unless you use a very large collar, the cracks will run all thecway from the top of the collar to grade. Maybe further. Still, I think it is worthwhile to do, and even cracked, it looks pretty good. The upside is, once the post rots out (and they all do, eventually) you may be able to cut the post off at the top of the concrete, core out and remove the post, install a post base in the square hole and fill that with concrete. You may even be able to re-use the post, if you can live with it being shorter.
Or, just dig a post hole, add the collar, use a post base and set the post above grade. I have done this too, and used welded flying buttresses to add lateral strength. And that is a thing I have never seen except in my own installations. It's hell for stout.
For the record, none of my concrete collars have any cracks. They're all perfect to this day. I used both the Quikrete rapid set concrete in the red bag and the standard in the yellow bag. I had no issues with either. In order to achieve this, I did this during good weather in the winter. Here, the days are usually 50-60 in the winter, and I made sure to do this during nights where we weren't getting close to freezing. The concrete was able to cure in very consistent temperatures in the 45-60 degree range, nonstop. This, I surmise, prevented a lot of cracking that can take place with very hot summer sun hitting the concrete, followed by huge cooling off at night. If you are concerned about cracking, you can hose them down periodically during the day to prevent too much evaporation too quickly. But pouring concrete in that 50-60 degree range really helps!
This is the most complete vid I have seen on setting posts.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching.
Well there "G" I'm going to say you in my opinion have covered the post situation in the best logical way out of say eight to ten other presentations.Nice job "G" like why learn from ones mistakes if you can learn not to make mistakes in the first place but even to all that make these presentations I want to give my salute salute just for trying to guide the curious D.I.Y. ya all!!!
Thanks for watching! Glad it was helpful.
I use a trowel to creat a slight downslope of the concrete away from the post. I also like to spray flex seal on the post below grade.
You are a very good communicator. Good job.
No 1 needs to make another video on this - you've covered it 👌
Glad you liked it! Thanks for watching!
Note to self, for future reference.
(1:32) Tip #1: Increase strength by drilling screws part way into the part of the wood that is to be encased in concrete.
(4:43) Tip #2: Increase resistance to rot by putting a three to six inch layer of gravel beneath the bottom of the post.
(6:58) Tip #3: Use a concrete form tube and pour the concrete higher than ground level so water pools against the concrete rather than against the post.
If you can get black locust posts you could just stick em in the dirt without them rotting, it is the best wood ever for posts, there's a 100+yr old fence near my home that was put up that way, no concrete just locust.. Still is solaid as the day it was set.. Problem is finding black locust posts without cutting it down yourself.
Most informative video on this subject matter I've come across. Doing a wood fencing project and your tips are invaluable. Thank you!!
InHarmony thanks for watching! I appreciate it.
Best fence post video I have seen, and I've seen a lot
I've been reading a ton on fence post and this is the first one that makes sense to me!! Great job!!!
Kristen oliviera thanks. I’m an engineer, so I can’t do anything without explaining things incessantly.
I agree entirely - this video is very clear and the camera work is excellent - one can see what is simultaneously being explained. I intend using the above advice to build a vegetable garden fence.
GentlemanH thank you! I’m glad you found it helpful.
Agree! I've been thinkin of building a fence. Very good attention to detail explanations! I can say I learn somethin. THANK YOU!
Research motor oil and diesel for sealer
For 6X6 posts for the corners of loafing sheds for horses, we started with a forty-inch hole, poured a four-inch footer of concrete, put two inches of gravel under the post, then six inches of gravel to set the base of the post before filling with concrete.
That way we get a "big rock" as a footer, then the base of the post is not in a concrete "cup" and can let water leach out to the soil.
Thank you! I learned a few things for sure! My only concern is the gravel in the bottom of the hole. I live in a rural area and the drainage in my soil is very slow... I have found that the gravel collects water after a rain. Water will take the path of least resistance to pool. This can be a problem as the water will continue to sit in the gravel until the surrounding soil drains below the level of the gravel. So essentially the bottom of the post is sitting in water for extended periods. The deeper the hole, the longer it takes the water to drain away. If you have sandy soil this is not a problem as water tends to drain pretty quickly. But if you have clay soil like mine - not so much. To illustrate I had just finished digging a 36" hole when it started to rain. There was about 18" of water in the hole and it took over a week for it to drain out. Normally I would have put that water to use by dumping my dry mix. But I had to travel for work for most of the week.
I guess my point is, know your soil and how well it drains and use a post setting process that best fits that soil.
Moving forward I am going to definitely add the screws for anchors and make sure my concrete goes well above ground level. Excellent tips! This is why I love RUclips.
Cowboy Stevo I coated the bottom portion of my posts with thick roofing tar - troweled it on pretty thick and made sure it was worked into the wood real good. Then I set them in concrete and expect them to last for many years. A couple of inches of the tar shows above the ground but I want to make sure they don’t rot right at ground level.
@@danielholtxxl4936 I do the same thing... I also coat the entire post in a 50/50 mixture of used motor oil and diesel fuel. Then coat the bottom of the post with asphalt roof patch. Though I don't cover the end of the bottom of the post. Some moisture is always going to make it into the post, so that gives the water somewhere to wick out.
What do you for clay/rocky soil then? Drill a rebar to stick out from bottom of post to create space between wood and soil?
@@LL-wh3uc Well... what has worked so far is coating the bottom of the 4x4 post with roofing tar to above ground level. I don't cover the very bottom of the post. Then bury it in concrete as normal. I have some posts that have been in the ground since 2009 and they appear to be fine. No detectable rot at ground level.
Excellent upgrades. The only thing I do different is I use a galvanized bolt and go all the way through the post instead of the screws.
I have also painted the bottom of the post with water proofing.
The other thing I'll mention is when you cleaned off your concrete around your form you want to leave a little bit of a dome so that the water can shed to the ground. If it's flat it'll pool on top of that flat surface, as you mention with your pitch.
So far my posts have lasted 33 years. In South Florida.
I don't have any issues with water collecting on the tops of the foundations, and we've already had 50 inches of rain this year so far. The pitch is more than adequate. The only comment I'd make is that you want to make sure the waterproofing compound is non-toxic if you're installing posts for a garden like I did. I wouldn't want any potentially toxic chemicals in my growing soil.
I learned something today. I usually use put 2ft of the circular form into the hole and fill it with concrete. Nice idea to fill the hole with concrete and just use 5in of the form on top. Not sure I'll change my ways but a nice idea nevertheless.
Thank you, excellent instruction. Can't argue with physics.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching!
Few inches of tube at the top is the simple genius move! 👍🏻
I worked on construction crews installing traffic signal pole foundations for years. This was one of the design requirements - the foundation reveal was a critical step.
Thank You for the information. I should have done this on a fence I put in about 6 months ago. One thing I did notice is how the electric company fights the telephone pole decay thing. They slip a water proof sleeve over the end of the pole that's in the earth and I'm pretty sure they coat it with creosote. I did use that idea on some of my posts for my cat corral and it seems to be working pretty good. Again, thank you for a great video.
Best tips around! Perfectly explained and shown! You rock! Thank you !!!
You’re welcome! Glad the video was helpful!
Adding multiple coats of water sealer doubles the life of pressure treated, add clear silicone at all wood to cement transitions and with this standard of fence posting you should have a good 20 years no touch fence...
That's great insight about the screws 4 support, also exposing the top of the concrete is also great advise thank u for your insight. Keep up the good work looks great 👍
Thanks for watching!
What a great idea and so simple to do with the screws, wish I would have saw this video before I planted all mine years ago, of course RUclips wasn't around back then!🙃 Thanks for posting.✌️
You're welcome! Thanks for watching!
Thanks so much. I have viewed many tips and tricks on installing fence posts. Yours is the best.
My friend, that is a glorious looking raised bed system. I love the elegance of the wood. Your tips and tricks are awesome. I like how you have the 4x4's on the perimeter. You can suspend all sorts of trellises with that. Man, your setup is pure awesome.
Thank you. I’m a design engineer, so I designed the entire layout myself to maximize both space and function. I wanted to grow as much food in as little space as possible, and I went through several designs before I settled on this. If you check out my most recent videos, you can see how I trellis my tomatoes and cucumbers. I have a whole system going. Vertical gardening is where it’s at for disease sensitive plants! Thanks for watching!
@@TheMillennialGardener most definitely my friend, string trellising is the way to go for cukes and tomatoes. I just saw your video. If you grow thru December, you will for sure have excess vine. In your video, you opted to coil the excess under the plant. Have you considered "string walking"? I'm sure you've heard of the idea. Essentially, you lower the plant once it's reached the top. Then you shift the plant to the left or right, doing so in unison for all your plants. Your planters are wide enough to allow two plants. You could potentially lower and rotate the plants in one direction, wrapping around at the ends. I am sure you have already thought of this because you chose to use tomato hooks which can slide along your top rail. I personally did not do this because I had an abundance of tomatoes.
I was testing out a way where I let one of the suckers near the bottom grow out as the plant reaches the top. The idea is to time it so that the chosen sucker grows becomes the primary. I just then lop off the existing main branch. Then repeat. That way, I don't have to deal with coiling or string walking. My thought is to reduce the distance that nutrients have to travel to reach the fruits. Anyways, I digress.
Happy growing!
im a 69 yrs old men and everyday i learn somethng new you have good ideas for the post i was thinking idont know but instead of the screws why dont drill a couple of holes across the 4x4 and put pieces of ribbar for more support just my 2 cents thank you
smarter then screws
Screws do nothing but introduce more moisture into the wood and increases rot. Concrete ATTRACTS WATER and increases rot. I used to use concrete but its terrible on posts.
100% excellent tips. You get an "A"!
Good job, Sr!!
I want a garden like yours.I think that this spring my husband and I will be working hard to build one like yours...😀!!
I encourage you to build the garden of your dreams. If I can do it, so can you! Thanks for watching.
Roció Galvan: Bravo you and hubby can work side by side participating all that time.
Good idea. In addition you can caulk the joint where the post and concrete meet
That’s also another step you can take to prevent water intrusion. I skipped this step, but doing it is another improvement!
Great information, thank you very much for sharing. I'm putting a grapevine trellis over my 10' X 16' patio using these 4X4 posts. Before installing the post, I plan to coat the lower 40 inches with Black Dip Rubberized Coating to add extra post-life. Keep up the great work.
DrDread sounds like a fun project. Good luck! Thanks for watching.
Be sure not to coat the very bottom leaving an escape route for any pos moisture other wise your just giving it a place to pool ...The Millennial Gardner should use this hack as well its the only thing he missed ,good luck too ya.
Absolutely fantastic video……I have been looking at quite a few videos to see the way to put in face posts. I am 67 yr old from Scotland and want to do this myself but want to get it right.
Your suggestion to put screws into the post is something nobody else has mentioned and I can see a great benefit doing this.
Can you tell me…. I know you said to make a hole 40” deep to give 4” inches of gravel……. What diameter should the hole be if using 4 x 4 inch posts? Is there something you would recommend to hire to dig out the hole in the first place?
I know I probably speak for everyone when I say your explanation and attention to detail is excellent. You explain things in a simple to understand way……. Thank You so much… it’s appreciated
I’m glad you enjoyed the video! Ideally, the hole will be about 12 inches in diameter for a 4x4 post. My holes were 12 inches at the top, but it got really hard to hand dig and keep the width by the time you got to the bottom, so they’d narrow some some 8-10 inches. I used a regular manual post hole digger. It gets the job done, but it works. You can look into renting or buying an auger.
I know this is a really common way of setting posts for fences. Here are a few views I've recently heard: someone said that the concrete around the post acts as a sponge absorbing ground moisture. Another person said to paint the entire bottom in concrete with tar or roof cement. Another view was this creates a glass effect for moisture to sit in from above. My thought would be to paint the sides that touch cement to allow the post to breathe up and down against the gravel base. I agree to have reveal and not let soil pool around the base. What do your fence panels look like? I needed a fence around my garden, between the birds, squirrels, rabbits, ground hogs, raccoons, opposum and deer they were eating all of my vegetables.
An outstanding presentation. Thanks for making it and placing it on RUclips.
I like your well covered point by point concerns on this common problem.
Thanks for watching! Glad it was helpful.
I have been doing that exact same thing but usually with 4 screws to all four sides of the posts at 2 feet in ground and 8 feet above and every four feet with another post. This was from 2002 and the posts are still solid but the other key was using a square-coiled 3/8th inch rebar but it was easier to use a concrete mesh cut to two feet and folded into a square hollow rod that fits in the two foot ground area that will be in the ground and the four nails are wired to the mesh to keep it still. When you pour the concrete, you will also always elevate it by 5 to 6 inches above ground using a square that is 2 inches wider than the 4X4 which means the square is about 2 to 3 inches wider than the 4X4 post. It seems like a lot of work but I just took my time for each post while listening to NPR radio or French pop music.
Thanks for watching! Glad to hear your posts are holding up.
This is such a helpful video! I do not intend to do anything that requires post-setting, but this information will stay with me. Thank you!
Leon deVose thank you. I’m glad you found it helpful.
@@TheMillennialGardener The problem you have caused is that I am now looking for an excuse to use your method.: ;-)
Best post video i've seen. Concise steps, and excellent tips!
When we build new decks and fences, we have a custom 12,000lb winch setup that pulls the posts out and the concrete comes with 98% of them. No need to put in a few screws. 12,000lbs of vertical force which lifts the concrete with the post won’t change with a few screws.
Great video. “Build it once” could be your motto. Thank you
Biodynamixxx thanks for watching! I certainly don’t want to do this again, ever!!!
I cut the top and bottom off 2L and 3L bottles and slide it over the post and then heat gun it so it acts like oversized heatshrink, 6inches above ground and 6inches below works well.
seems like the plastic would retain moisture.
In addition I put 2 coats of asphalt emulsion (e.g Henry Sealer & Damp Proofer) to the area of the post that is in the ground plus 6" above ground level. I usually do not paint the entire bottom. This further protects the post from rotting. Another trick is to buy 120% of the posts needed several weeks in advance, lay them on a flat surface with spacers and let them dry thoroughly before using. It will increase the life of the screws, allow immediate painting and you can return any warpped posts to the store for a refund.
awesome video...I have to rebuild my fence soon and everything you say makes sense and will try, thank you so much for sharing
Thanks for watching! I'm glad it was helpful.
And dont forget the top of the post. Rain sets on top and seeps down the grains of your post. You can set a container over the top of the post. Bird houses are good to protect your post.
Pressure treated wood is soaked, so the copper preservative penetrates the insides. My concern with rain touching the top is pretty low, and I'm only concerned with the posts sitting in continually wet ground.
OH! I'M SORRY!! DIDNT KNOW YOUR WAY, was the only way. I gues i should shut up and learn from you! Guess my 62 year old farmer's brain needs to learn from ALL YOUR YEARS OF EXPERIENCE! Exspecially with that MASSIVE garden project!!! Our cucumber bed was bigger than THAT! BAHAHAHA 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣 😎 i got to go and look at my 130 year old cedar split rail fence again and see what was done wrong!!! Lets see. Only tools used was an ax, a couple of wedges, a crowbar, and a sledge. And raw logs... OH, skill too!! I got my skills from the farmer that built that said fence. ABSALUTELY HAVE TO HAVE PRESSURE TREATED WOOD. . ... 🤔🤔🤔😳😳😳🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
Hey brother just wanted to give you some props on your work. I’ve been in construction most of my life and really meticulous and how I do things your beds look beautiful looks all organized all your rose he must be an analyzer like myself because everything looks pimped out.! Just wanted to give you props my friend great job keep up the good work and hopefully you can see my car in one of these days on a video
VDC- Vegas Dice Controller thanks. I am an engineer, so I kind of obsess about symmetry. It drives me a little crazy when things are crooked.
Concrete will always be a sponge and keep moisture against wood. Rock only (little soil in there if you wish it to further) for me.
I did this BUT I also was building a small wooden fence and used 6x6 posts and used 2x6 boards on the top and bottom and 2x4 for the middle and screws on everything. When I place the boards on, each time when I connected to a post, the next board over I went up or down from the location of the previous board so I could utilize the entire 6 inches of space on the post to drive in 6 screws vs how people place the boards side by side on a 4x4 post and get only 2 inches of space to support all that weight. My fences have NEVER failed in windstorms or Hurricane Katrina and Ida and are still standing. Do it...do it right the first time
Try Simpson Tie Galvanized Column Base for 4x4 Nominal Lumber. Then you dig 2ft at the “most”. Post never touched soil. A lot easier, less time and effort and it will last even longer.
I like this idea! I'm new to all of this and seeing way too many comments about the wood eventually rotting if installed straight in concrete. Does the wood in the method you describe still have to be rated for ground contact? Or will standard pressure treated wood work? Thanks for your comment!
With respect and in the spirit of positive conversation:
- The screws will penetrate the chemical barrier and actually cause rot in the timber.
- The concrete reveal prevents any rails or palings being set against the post so wouldn’t make a neat fence.
I have no issue with the gravel :)
This is great info. No tutorial Ive seen has these tips.
Glad it was helpful! Thank you for watching.
Great info! Thanks for taking the time to make a short and thorough video. It was perfect. I learned good tips. 👍🏼
Excellent tips!! Looking for solid longevity for the post.
Glad it was helpful! So far, everything has been great. Thanks for watching!
All very good ideas.
While watching this another method of preventing the post which could be combined with the screws or used stand alone would be to cut two V grooves 3/4" deep on each side of the post where there are no screws. - just a thought :)
This is so smart!!! Thank you! May I ask how wide the hole needs to be for a 4x4 post?
Fantastic video. Would staining/paining the post make it last longer?
While I like the idea of having the concrete end above the ground to prevent standing water at the post base. I have never been able to pull any post from the concrete it was set in. I think the screws are overkill and fixing a problem that doesn't exist.
We do that in AK to prevent frost jacking. The crushed gravel also provides a capillary break.
I won't say the screws do nothing but assuming the post isn't yanked around before the concrete sets the only possible difference is in it's resistance to lifting straight out of the hole. Nothing short of a moose getting frisky or a twister should apply enough upward pull to make the screws matter here, imo.
Not sure about with pressure treated but both scorching the surface of untreated wood and applying sealers, even just motor oil, are tricks to make wood last much longer in ground contact. I've even heard of wrapping plastic around the bottom of a post before pouring the concrete in. I keep meaning to try charring then sealer in combination but haven't heard of anyone risking it with pressure treated.
If you insist on doing this wrap the post with 30 pound felt to create a drainage plane. Pressure treatment will not help guard against rot because the concrete holds moisture. Embedding screws into the post will only allow moisture to penetrate deeper into the post. Pressure treatment usually does not go thru the entire post.
Very impressive! I took very good notes and plan to do all three things. Liked and subscribed!
Excellent presentation and information 👍👍👍👍👍👍
Good tips. Well presented. Thanks for sharing.
GREAT VIDEO VERY EDUCATIONAL
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching.
In clay soil it may not be a good idea to place gravel beneath the post. Why not? Because the height of the water table in clay will always be higher than the height of the water table in gravel. Therefore, if you put gravel in the hole it will create a capillary break that will cause water to flow TOWARDS the post not away from it. The water that enters the gravel can’t drain as there is impermeable clay around and beneath it, so it just sits in the gravel “cup”. Over time, the rise and fall of water table, if present, will rot out the bottom of the post. This is not an issue in well-drained sandy soil nor is it a serious issue even in clayey soil IF the capillary fringe on the water table remains below the bottom of the posts. Otherwise job well done. Hope that helps.
Having clay at the bottom of the post sucks. I wondered if putting a cement slab at the bottom before placing the post would help.
Would setting steel posts be more practical, though not as aesthetically-pleasing, to avoid any wood rot issues?
Thanks. I'm setting posts at the top of a big slope as well ... 'was going to go with that 3:7 ratio of exposed post vs buried.
S.C. Forbes thanks for watching!
Use pressure creosoted timber .nothing beats it !!! Also knock the posts in with a post knocker. 👍
Thank you for sharing, great presentation
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching.
Great tips 👍. I used 1/4"x 6"stainless lag screws in every footing for the floor joists of my wife's craftroom. Always opt for douglas fir pressure treated lumber if available (usually at lumberyards), little more expensive, but waaay better than hem-fir (you can read online articles that basically sugar coat hem-fir's inferior viability, but it will NEVER last as long as douglas fir pressure treated). If you're gonna do something right...start from the foundation 👍.
Roddy Piper for these garden beds, I went with basic Lowe’s #2 Prime, but for something structural, I agree. The warping alone can be terrible on this cheap stuff.
Thank you SO much for this valuable info!! I really appreciate it!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching!
Thanks, My issue is that over time the post will rot. How many times do I see posts with concrete at the curb. Who wants that?
Great set up though. I'm on to watching your garlic video
I paint the bottom 3' of my posts with roofing tar and pack gravel and clay to set them. Last just as long, just as sturdy and will be easier to remove them when it's time for replacement.
I would strongly recommend against coating with tar, creosote or any of those other chemicals due to contaminated soil. I would not want to grow anything in that ground.
@@TheMillennialGardener well no, obviously not. But for fencing it works just fine
These are great suggestions. Thank you. I’m going to give it a go!
Simply Superb!
Thank you!
I've got all these supplies, first post is ready for concrete. But please let me know if I can put fast set down in the hole, add water, then top it off for the reveal with the high strength concrete mixed in a wheelbarrow.
If you angle the form make sure the high side is pointed at a corner of the post and not a side. This will split the water as it runs down. If you point it at a side the water will sit on the high side of the post. I just cut the forms straight and then slope the concrete away from the post on all sides.
So smart! Too bad the guy who installed my privacy fence 15 years ago wasn't smart enough to do that. I've had several posts for and snap off in strong winds. I was considering how I could do it differently. You just solved my problem. Also, I saw your response to someone else about going one third down for fences and below the first line. I believe my code here (Northeast Illinois zone 5) is 36" but it obviously didn't work. Going with your advice when I repair my fence. Now if you could tell me what to do about metal stakes in asphalt. My carport stakes lift when the ground freezes. Lol thanks
Ms. V. Jackson I live on the NC coast, so my ground doesn’t freeze. I don’t have an issue with frost heave. You may want to check what your frost line depth is and ensure you’re deeper than that. It may be deeper than the 1/3 rule. As for your carport, those stakes probably should’ve been embedded in concrete, I’m guessing. Asphalt isn’t structural. It doesn’t hold things in place like concrete does. I’m not an expert on pavement, though.
I don't think I'll be setting any posts myself, but very informative video. Love your new garden design! That is awesome and can't wait to see what you do with it. No "big" projects for me, but I moved into my 100+ year-old house last Fall so this Spring I'll be making a few raised beds for my veg garden this summer. Hopefully I'll be able to expand it next year but trying to stay realistic & do a little at a time.
Congrats on the new home! That’s huge. I’ve been slowly building my garden for 2 seasons, and I think it’ll take me 2 more years to finish my plot. Definitely take your time and build incrementally so you don’t burn out, but I encourage you to sketch a plan. Having a “big picture” helped me. I’m working toward something, and tackling it a little every month makes it manageable. Thanks for watching.
Great video. Short and informative. Thank you
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching.
It wouldn't hurt to tar up the bottom of the post after you put screws in them. Concrete footing needs to be thicker or make them square to prevent cracking at the corners of the post where concrete is just a few inches thick. Also, some rebar or hardware cloth imbedded in the footing will prevent cracking.
Rocks in the bottom of the hole. The rock will provide some drainage for some time if you have soil that actually drains. If you have a clay type soil the water doesn't have any were to drain to, the ground prevents that. The clay acts both ways: it makes it harder for water to get to the bottom of your hole and once it gets there it makes it harder for the water to move away from the hole as the hole filled with rock now becomes a, more or less, sealed pond. The best way is to go 6" below the frost line then pour 6" of concrete for the bottom of the post to sit on. The best way which is also the most pain in the ass is to actually suspend the post 6" off the bottom leveled both ways then pour the concrete all the way around the wood. You can get a plastic concrete 4 way chair for the bottom of the post to sit on so that you do not have to suspend the load, just make sure that the chair is tough enough to handle the load or make them out of some bent and welded rebar. Tough to do and slow or expensive if you do more than one hole at a time. Make sure that the concrete has set enough to hold the load before removing the leveling supports 1-2 days unless using high early concrete.
For pole barn construction the quick tube or sonotube works well with the cost of the tube being off set on savings on concrete due to oversize holes. Also makes the calculation for the amount of concrete easier X by Y tube holds Z amount of concrete no more, no less.
Set your tube 4-6" below the finished grade if you are pouring a slab for the floor, set the posts then pour the floor slab around the posts to the finished grade. If you are tough you can do it all at once.
Instead of tilting the reveal, why not just trowel a slope away from each of the 4 sides? That way it won't pool against the uphill side of the post. I love all your tips.
Form tubes are good,But not if your installing a picket fence (it will get in the way)I fill and spread about 15 inches of white liquid rubber to protect the post from rotting.5 inches above and about 10 inches below .Then pour concrete. Tape lower part of post all around to have a nice clean line when spreading liquid rubber.
I am straightening out my fence from Harvey, YEP, you heard right(LOL), I have meant to do this project for a long time but I work like a mule almost 6 or 7 days a week. Anyways, all the comments are good and differ form how long it is expected to be in the property you live in. I am personally fixing it to the point that meets the HOA guidelines or it is strong enough like for the pickets to stand in place. I use screws all the time, nails take too long to take out and most of the times can't be reused, which, I never do.
Wow, that was a while ago! Florence knocked down a lot of fences in my neighborhood as well. It's never any fun. Fences don't last all that long around these parts!
I'd never Live where there is a HOA.. My house i wanna fix it the way I want it lol. But just my opinion..
Concrete ATTRACTS WATER, increases and accelerates rot. I used to use it. It holds moisture against the post. Drilling screws into the post just delivers more moisture into the post.
A R if that were the case, concrete wouldn’t be used as a foundational material in building codes. The fact is, soil has rapidly changing soil moisture characteristics. It can go from sopping wet to bone dry to frozen. Concrete provides a consistent embedment material that does not expand and contract with much with temperatures and does not change much as soil moisture changes. In addition, you don’t know how long your soil will stay wet 3 feet down. Concrete is an insurance policy.
@@TheMillennialGardenerYes concrete is used in foundations. In that application, its a great material. There is no problem with concrete being listed in building codes for that. We are talking about 2 totally different things. What you're saying is completely unrelated to my comment.
I've pulled a lot of posts that were very old and I never was able to just pull the post with out the concrete attached...never was able to even beat the concrete plug off the post...although the screws probably add a little bit of sheer strength under a wind load
I've seen folks pop out concrete caps and posts using chains and floor jacks. It can be done if the concrete is a monolithic pour. If the concrete fractures into pieces, it may require a little more cleanup. We used to pop out light pole foundations with digger derricks and backhoes. Attach chains to the anchor bolts and pull. POP!
The timber posts shrink over time the point of the screws of nails is that despite the
shrinkage the concrete will grip the screw, this keeps the post more likely to remain
firm in the ground.
It also helps with any upward forces, vibrations or gate attachments. It's one of those steps that takes literally seconds and costs next to no money, so in my opinion, not doing so is silly. Thank you for watching!
Aren't they more likely to swell in size when they become wet?
Silly? I have built hundreds of post frame buildings. Thousands of posts imbedded. Demolition of some. Observed the durability of many more - some in horribly corrosive conditions. I have some simple and I hope we'll received advice: Quit over thinking the process and then passing it on as some sort of wisdom. I could rant for pages about this video and many of the comments adding their little bit of "expertise" - I won't. I will sum it up this way: Yours and many others present an academic exercise in perspective that doesn't match the real world.
I put up a grape arbor in 1981, 4" PT posts resting on gravel and surrounded with concrete. At 40 years those posts are still doing yoeman service.
That's great to hear. I hope my posts last that long! I know they say, "They don't make 'em like they used to," though, so I have my doubts that today's cheap-o sapling lumber will last as long.
Thank you!!! The tip about keeping the cement above the ground is exactly the advice I needed.
Dawn Fenton thank you. In the business, we call that a Foundation Reveal.
Not sure where you live or the climate. In Canada never keep the cement above ground. Ice and thaw will heave and pull the post out of the ground. Personally it's overkill. Keep the cement low. Btw farmers have fences. They don't use cement. They stay straight and are still fine after 100 years. Just saying.
I used portland cement from brik dealer here pure stuff ten times better than lowes crap think I did ok super solid
Thanks for watching!
Somehow I deleted my question and your response after I read it and tried to respond, So, to repeat: I thought it might be simple but I wasn't sure since I've never used the tubes. Thank you very much for your response.