I don't see any issues with the cards because one fast mana card is difficult to access. Its one of 100. Plus its matter when you land it then making it rarer to make it importanrt . I think what they should focuus on is how many mana rocks and tutors allowed in a single deck.
The issue with fast mana is that new and casual players have started an arms race, putting money into these cards, and these cards in particular, have no place in a casual deck. On top of that, they enable players to get so far ahead on mana that it breaks mana cost as a balancing tool. 6-8 cost Commanders are usually powerful, but seeing them as early as turn 2 really messes with game balance and I think the bans were an effort to fix that balance but it was too much all at once. And yes, tutors increasing consistency is a big issue for the format as well when it comes to power level, but they are ingrained into the game and I doubt they'll ever do away with them completely.
@@twilightscallmtg My point is that if you have seven mana rocks there is a one percent chance of you landing a mana Rock on your opening hand. Distraction makers made the calculation. This way you can have any mana rock you choose but you can only have one or two. This way when a person lands the rate sole ring or jeweled lotus you might actually be excited and if the game goes quick then off to the new game.
Yeah, but without going to something like a points system where you'd have points assigned to mana rock or tutor power so that you could only carry like 1-2 of each, I don't see how they could pull that off, and then it's just a variation of Canadian Highlander at that point.
Ultimately good bans in my opinion, i personally would be in favor of banning Rhystic Study as well. Cards need to be powerful but the amount of value these cards generate is beyond anything else. I have made the argument in the past that Dockside was simply undercosted, and if he produced all those treasures for 4 mana it wouldn't have been an issue
I agree with the bans but the absurd response was uncalled for. My biggest beef with cards like Study and Tithe are that they create unpleasant game states where you get taxed out of playing or you let the player using them get way ahead of everyone else and probably lose to the card/mana advantage they produce. If Dockside were more to cast, yes,I think it might have been alright. Or even just make it a cast trigger so it couldn't be flickered/copied/reanimated to abuse it I think it would have been ok. Then you'd have to balance getting that smaller burst early or hold it up until later to get a big turn out of it.
I think this is a very sad day for MTG. In my eyes, the RC took bold action and tried to do something healthy for the format, and in return, they were screwed over by the player base. The outrage over these bans demonstrated just how "uncasual" the format has become. I've seen it over and over playing in public spaces. You have people sitting down at a table only interested in playing a 20 minute commander game.....they have no consideration for the casual element of the format whatsoever. Now wizards will have control and I severely hope they don't unban these cards because if they do, it will just reward all of the animosity that took place. It won't provide any kind of lesson. I've been saying for a long time I think the casual element of card games in general is dying. People don't want to play casually anymore. They only care about how powerful a card is and how much it costs.
Agreed. These cards should never be unbanned simply because it rewards the absolutely unhinged crap that happened and it would reinforce the bad behavior. Then they would feel emboldened to resort to this every time a ban happened that they didn't like, regardless of format, thinking it would make them capitulate. Luckily, Gavin said today in the WeeklyMTG podcast that those cards were mistakes that they shouldn't have printed, so I'm highly doubting they will be coming back. I also agree that the format has lost a lot of the Casual element, which is exactly why these cards needed to go. They were creeping into Casual games, and new players see this, which then perpetuates the issue as time goes on. I challenge anyone reading this comment to lower the temperature of your games by choosing to NOT jam the most powerful cards simply because you have them and you can. I have copies of Rhystic Study and Smothering Tithe sitting in a box on my desk, simply because they make for unfun games for my opponents and they are a chore to baby sit the triggers on for me. I don't want that, so I don't even use them any more. I probably should sell them to get things I would use, honestly.
Like what I hate is when one player takes a thirty minute turn just to find a stupid card. They should announce there intentso I can grab a beer!
I don't see any issues with the cards because one fast mana card is difficult to access. Its one of 100. Plus its matter when you land it then making it rarer to make it importanrt . I think what they should focuus on is how many mana rocks and tutors allowed in a single deck.
The issue with fast mana is that new and casual players have started an arms race, putting money into these cards, and these cards in particular, have no place in a casual deck. On top of that, they enable players to get so far ahead on mana that it breaks mana cost as a balancing tool. 6-8 cost Commanders are usually powerful, but seeing them as early as turn 2 really messes with game balance and I think the bans were an effort to fix that balance but it was too much all at once.
And yes, tutors increasing consistency is a big issue for the format as well when it comes to power level, but they are ingrained into the game and I doubt they'll ever do away with them completely.
@@twilightscallmtg My point is that if you have seven mana rocks there is a one percent chance of you landing a mana Rock on your opening hand. Distraction makers made the calculation. This way you can have any mana rock you choose but you can only have one or two. This way when a person lands the rate sole ring or jeweled lotus you might actually be excited and if the game goes quick then off to the new game.
Yeah, but without going to something like a points system where you'd have points assigned to mana rock or tutor power so that you could only carry like 1-2 of each, I don't see how they could pull that off, and then it's just a variation of Canadian Highlander at that point.
Ultimately good bans in my opinion, i personally would be in favor of banning Rhystic Study as well. Cards need to be powerful but the amount of value these cards generate is beyond anything else.
I have made the argument in the past that Dockside was simply undercosted, and if he produced all those treasures for 4 mana it wouldn't have been an issue
I agree with the bans but the absurd response was uncalled for.
My biggest beef with cards like Study and Tithe are that they create unpleasant game states where you get taxed out of playing or you let the player using them get way ahead of everyone else and probably lose to the card/mana advantage they produce.
If Dockside were more to cast, yes,I think it might have been alright. Or even just make it a cast trigger so it couldn't be flickered/copied/reanimated to abuse it I think it would have been ok. Then you'd have to balance getting that smaller burst early or hold it up until later to get a big turn out of it.
I think this is a very sad day for MTG. In my eyes, the RC took bold action and tried to do something healthy for the format, and in return, they were screwed over by the player base. The outrage over these bans demonstrated just how "uncasual" the format has become. I've seen it over and over playing in public spaces. You have people sitting down at a table only interested in playing a 20 minute commander game.....they have no consideration for the casual element of the format whatsoever. Now wizards will have control and I severely hope they don't unban these cards because if they do, it will just reward all of the animosity that took place. It won't provide any kind of lesson. I've been saying for a long time I think the casual element of card games in general is dying. People don't want to play casually anymore. They only care about how powerful a card is and how much it costs.
Agreed. These cards should never be unbanned simply because it rewards the absolutely unhinged crap that happened and it would reinforce the bad behavior. Then they would feel emboldened to resort to this every time a ban happened that they didn't like, regardless of format, thinking it would make them capitulate.
Luckily, Gavin said today in the WeeklyMTG podcast that those cards were mistakes that they shouldn't have printed, so I'm highly doubting they will be coming back.
I also agree that the format has lost a lot of the Casual element, which is exactly why these cards needed to go. They were creeping into Casual games, and new players see this, which then perpetuates the issue as time goes on.
I challenge anyone reading this comment to lower the temperature of your games by choosing to NOT jam the most powerful cards simply because you have them and you can. I have copies of Rhystic Study and Smothering Tithe sitting in a box on my desk, simply because they make for unfun games for my opponents and they are a chore to baby sit the triggers on for me. I don't want that, so I don't even use them any more. I probably should sell them to get things I would use, honestly.