I hope Zack’s first playable moment drops us right into his last stand, like right out of the ending of CC/his reveal at the end of Rebirth. Hopefully we get to hear some tasty new renditions of the CC music too!
I was going to comment this on the last video, but I’m glad I waited til this one. When it comes to your prediction of the ending of part 3, my prediction is very similar, with the big difference being that Zack would also be aiding in the Lifestream summoning, by protecting Aerith from some form of Jenovaroth. The battle could even switch to Zack and Aerith’s perspective at some point during the middle, between phases 1 and 2, or something. Whatever they decide to do with Zack in Rebirth, by the end of the trilogy, he will end up in the Lifestream with Aerith, connecting to Advent Children, because I do think it’s a reimagining as well. The closer we get to Rebirth, the less it feels like a sequel to me.
I actually have always campaigned for Zack to be "alive" in the lifestream and even though they showed him "surviving" I think it's probably - and hopefully - not as clear-cut as that. I would argue that the Sixth Sense is a classic film, and a good example of what we could see here with Zack. It's not quite the same but I think when it's all said and done, we'll accept it and realise there were cleverly disguised clues right in front of us the whole time. I think they're showing, not telling. And THAT is good writing. ;)
The Lifestream is prime context for further exploration of the world of Final Fantasy VII. The whole setup began in Chapter 4 with Jessie's father. I strongly believe that wasn't a "padding" chapter or just a chapter to add character development for Jessie. Likewise for the train graveyard. Both scenarios were expanded to add context to the world and the "new" story they were telling which was to expand on its integral part of the spiritual or mythological aspect to VII's world. The Lifestream is how VII's characters relate to the planet's past, present, and future and is fertile ground for telling the same story in a fresh new way. The past via the Cetra, the present via Cloud's memory and the material system, and the future through Aerith's premonitions. The Lifestream connects the world of the living with the unknown journey of the deceased and all of the groundwork for it has been laid.
I agree Ray. This trilogy is simply a reimagining of the story. A NewGame+ if you will. I will say this, regardless of what is happening. The story still has to flow into Advent Children. Therefore, Zack will die, or is dead. Sadly, I believe he is on borrowed time, perhaps (7secs). Once that time elapses, he will perish.
If Zack lives does that mean there are two Clouds and two buster swords, right? I had thought this was in a different world from the world of Cloud and the party that was heading to Kalm, but what bothered me was in one of the trailers, if I'm not mistaken Sephiroth said "two worlds merged". So what do you think Ray?
There’s ~potentially~ 3 Clouds & Busterswords due to the “7 seconds until the end …” Sephiroth did just kind of leave him there between the two worlds/universes. I’m not very comfortable with that fact, or its lack of Cloud having any solid“return to reality” moment thereafter. 😅
With this last trailer, I still believe that Zack will be the FF7 version of what Auron or Tidus is. Unsent or 'Dreamed' into reality. There were so many parallels to FFX in this trailer Many of which I have post to my TL just to try and keep track lol.
I think that Zack is alive in a timeline where the group was killed escaping from Shinra. Thinking about the news feed showing all of them on stretchers. Idk how else to explain why they'd be on stretchers.
it's really hard to experience 14 just through cutscenes because they express a lot of those feelings, hype moments and emotions through boss encounters, transitions. It's up there for me along with FFVII/VIIR. 16 boss fights are next level too.
I strongly think that Zack is really dead and will meet Aerith (where the trailer shows they are reunited) with Cloud unconscious. Zack and Aerith will then try to wake Cloud same goes with Tifa and the others doing in the real world. Zack and Aerith then will assist the party by powering up (in some way) the white materia and the lifestream while the party is dealing with Sephiroth and the aftermath
Zack should be alive and it should also have been the white explosion's doing. Locally the explosion tore through Midgar but maybe spiritually it exploded through all of time, sparing Zack and Biggs. My feeling is that the white explosion was Aerith's own influence from the destined compilation lifestream, which would otherwise have been Sephiroth's potential influence. Shyamalon plot twist, the white explosion is so big it smashes into Rocket Town, up-righting the Rocket itself allowing Cid to accomplish his dream.
Wasn't there a tweet or interview answer a little while back that said "zack isn't necessarily alive"? I remember having this exact conversation with Ray in the comments 4 years ago. I also got told it was bad storytelling 😅
I fundamentally disagree, to me all great twists start with a lie, sprinkle in some truth and then undermine the initial lie. Darth Vader killed your father (lie), no I am your father (twist). From Obi Wans view Anakin was lost when he became Vader (sprinkle of truth). Cloud was an EX-SOLDIER (lie) and was in Nibelheim 5 years ago (sprinkle of truth), actually he was just a grunt (twist). Tidus travelled 1000 years into the future (lie) from Zanarkand (sprinkle of truth) which is actually a location on the map summoned into existence for the last 1000 years (twist). There's no reason the setup for a twist can't exist as a cliffhanger.
If you understand what fundamental levels are then you get why this is COMPLETELY different from that. To use your example, this would be the equivalent of George Lucas SHOWING Darth Vader killing Anakin Skywalker then being like, "psych!", c'mon now.
@@RayCoffman like they showed Cloud as a Soldier first class and showed Tidus in Zanarkand? I'd argue showing Vader killing Anakin from Obi Wans perspective and later recontextualising it as force dream ptsd that Obi Wan is dealing with would have been really effective. I think it's very tunnel visioned to say the Zack twist utilising him actually being in the lifestream (albeit existence outside it rather than completely within the flow itself, changing the context of his existence leading into why he's still even around in AC) fundamentally can't work, execution is everything, on paper the Cloud twist does not work because it relies on Jenova helping falsify his memories, an ability you don't know is even possible until the twist begins to unravel, and yet because of the execution the twist still lands. I understand having a twist that just resets to the status quo doesn't always work, but the lifestream has more flexibility as a concept that a simple dead or not deas binary outcome.
I personally think we're getting two different parts of Zack's story. I think we're getting his death. I think it's simply been moved. Then we see him in the LS as well.
Zack being alive messes up Clouds state of mind and motivation, if they ever meet. So far in the remake trilogy, Cloud still had the og loss of Zack, the character we play as in rebirth SHOULD'VE lost Zack and had his grief and expectation of being " a living legacy". But if zack is alive and they meet before Cloud resolves his identity, then Cloud is not the same character as in og FF7. End of discussion. AND if Cloud resolves his identity before the loss of Aerith - then his arc is not the same, hes not the same character.... thats why Zack is so divisive. Because you have to choose, either we have ff7 Cloud and Zack is dead OR Zack lives and FF7 Cloud is nowhere to be found. Unless they balance it so Zack only appears as Cloud is possessed by sephiroth, about to kill Aerith. Then Cloud could fall to the dark side and still come back in part 3. BECAUSE HES AN INTERDIMENSIONAL CHARACTER who canonically lost Zack,, the whole party who exits the singularity are interdimensional characters. Thats why we see dead versions of them so as to not have doppelgangers, except for Cloud and possibly a comatose Aerith.... Having Zack be in "another world" is dumb and stupid and FEELS like fan fiction... but if our party has entered a whole "gaia 2" then only they are anomalies and could still exist especially if Tifa2 and the rest of the party2 has returned to the lifestream. Then party1 can still be the ones we adventure with and make sense
Hey Ray I get that you believe square has at some point said zack was alive but I want you to really go back and read every single comment made about zack since remake. Ive gone through almost all if not all the comments because people keep saying that square said he was alive and i prove them wrong. Square has INTENTIONALLY left every single comment about if zack is alive or dead an ambiguous answer like "is zack alive" Zack seems to have escaped his fate" and other responses like that the latest one at the rapid fire questions people thought hamaguchi said he was alive when really he said "Hmm Challenging question I wonder how he is alive" all their answers have been left open ended and ambiguous.
Zach has to be alive didnt Kitase and the rest say he is party big part in the game he has to be alive I cant see why history has been changed the worlds will merge I believe we jsut dont know how becasue we wont for another two weeks once we have the game, and yea SE track record not good as usual so we shall see, but we know zack alive we see it with biggs talking, trailers dont show him joining cloud and his team if he does it would be later on.
Oh actually, I think for sure Zack is alive, but will die again for sure. If Advent Children is still cannon then we need him to enter the lifestream. Hmmmm has me thinking that this remake saga was designed so that Advent Children is a sequel that actually makes sense (ie, events in 7 that add context to advent children). OG 7 was so good, but the compilation never really did it any justice, nor did 7 really set up the compliation (imo)
watching FF14 cutscenes and getting the story from that is like reading cliff notes to classic novels. The story is fantastic and one of the best in FF. What you miss is having to play with other players and having to go on your own journey. It's a different animal from single player FF games. FF16 was a failure IMO because it was a one note game and that is not in the vein of a true FF game, it lacked the light v. dark parts. All said FF7..still the crowning jewel in gaming and about to become the mountain other games will have to climb.
If zacks alive then cloud is going to jail for identity theft.
Identity theft isn’t a joke, Cloud!
I hope Zack’s first playable moment drops us right into his last stand, like right out of the ending of CC/his reveal at the end of Rebirth. Hopefully we get to hear some tasty new renditions of the CC music too!
On fire with the content back to back 🔥
Four videos in an 18 hour window. We’re all the way back. 😎🔥
@@RayCoffman heck yes! Keep rocking Ray!
I was going to comment this on the last video, but I’m glad I waited til this one. When it comes to your prediction of the ending of part 3, my prediction is very similar, with the big difference being that Zack would also be aiding in the Lifestream summoning, by protecting Aerith from some form of Jenovaroth. The battle could even switch to Zack and Aerith’s perspective at some point during the middle, between phases 1 and 2, or something.
Whatever they decide to do with Zack in Rebirth, by the end of the trilogy, he will end up in the Lifestream with Aerith, connecting to Advent Children, because I do think it’s a reimagining as well. The closer we get to Rebirth, the less it feels like a sequel to me.
i support this theory its more like fleshing out how aerith helps on saving the planet with the use of lifestream by the end of the OG
Imagine Zack and Tifa having a reunion. Or when Zack sees sephiroth. All of the possibilities that we didnt get in OG.
Team Zack all the way! Can't wait to see that CLOUD X ZACK DOUBLE BUSTER SWORD COMBO!
I actually have always campaigned for Zack to be "alive" in the lifestream and even though they showed him "surviving" I think it's probably - and hopefully - not as clear-cut as that.
I would argue that the Sixth Sense is a classic film, and a good example of what we could see here with Zack. It's not quite the same but I think when it's all said and done, we'll accept it and realise there were cleverly disguised clues right in front of us the whole time.
I think they're showing, not telling. And THAT is good writing. ;)
The Lifestream is prime context for further exploration of the world of Final Fantasy VII. The whole setup began in Chapter 4 with Jessie's father. I strongly believe that wasn't a "padding" chapter or just a chapter to add character development for Jessie. Likewise for the train graveyard. Both scenarios were expanded to add context to the world and the "new" story they were telling which was to expand on its integral part of the spiritual or mythological aspect to VII's world.
The Lifestream is how VII's characters relate to the planet's past, present, and future and is fertile ground for telling the same story in a fresh new way. The past via the Cetra, the present via Cloud's memory and the material system, and the future through Aerith's premonitions. The Lifestream connects the world of the living with the unknown journey of the deceased and all of the groundwork for it has been laid.
My man with the content over load!!!!
Also, I’ve not a clue what happens with Zack, but he for sure has been alluded to being quite a major piece!
Dude, every time you say take me for a ride. I think of the theme song for marvel versus Capcom 2 lol love it
Good points and ponderings!
Zack becomes Knights of the Round
Calling it
Omg. This would be so badass.
I agree Ray. This trilogy is simply a reimagining of the story. A NewGame+ if you will. I will say this, regardless of what is happening. The story still has to flow into Advent Children. Therefore, Zack will die, or is dead.
Sadly, I believe he is on borrowed time, perhaps (7secs). Once that time elapses, he will perish.
If Zack lives does that mean there are two Clouds and two buster swords, right?
I had thought this was in a different world from the world of Cloud and the party that was heading to Kalm, but what bothered me was in one of the trailers, if I'm not mistaken Sephiroth said "two worlds merged". So what do you think Ray?
There’s ~potentially~ 3 Clouds & Busterswords due to the “7 seconds until the end …” Sephiroth did just kind of leave him there between the two worlds/universes. I’m not very comfortable with that fact, or its lack of Cloud having any solid“return to reality” moment thereafter. 😅
Tbf marketing saying Zack is alive was in the character bio ... They also put out marketing in Remake constantly saying Cloud is SOLDIER 1st
Zach kinda has to stay dead and die where he traditionally does, because of Crisis Core Reunion.
They’ve already said CC Reunion is its own thing that exists outside of the Remake Saga.
With this last trailer, I still believe that Zack will be the FF7 version of what Auron or Tidus is. Unsent or 'Dreamed' into reality. There were so many parallels to FFX in this trailer Many of which I have post to my TL just to try and keep track lol.
I think that Zack is alive in a timeline where the group was killed escaping from Shinra. Thinking about the news feed showing all of them on stretchers. Idk how else to explain why they'd be on stretchers.
it's really hard to experience 14 just through cutscenes because they express a lot of those feelings, hype moments and emotions through boss encounters, transitions. It's up there for me along with FFVII/VIIR. 16 boss fights are next level too.
FF12 was awesome man. Absolutely loved the world in that game. Ivalice is super cool.
You’re the man Ray. Love the content
Love the explosion of content today, getting me even more excited for Rebirth. Keep it rockin’ brother, hope things have been going well for ya🤘
Dragon Quest XI was a cant miss banger imo...10/10
I hope you're right. Life stream Zack would be lame.
I strongly think that Zack is really dead and will meet Aerith (where the trailer shows they are reunited) with Cloud unconscious. Zack and Aerith will then try to wake Cloud same goes with Tifa and the others doing in the real world. Zack and Aerith then will assist the party by powering up (in some way) the white materia and the lifestream while the party is dealing with Sephiroth and the aftermath
Zack should be alive and it should also have been the white explosion's doing. Locally the explosion tore through Midgar but maybe spiritually it exploded through all of time, sparing Zack and Biggs. My feeling is that the white explosion was Aerith's own influence from the destined compilation lifestream, which would otherwise have been Sephiroth's potential influence. Shyamalon plot twist, the white explosion is so big it smashes into Rocket Town, up-righting the Rocket itself allowing Cid to accomplish his dream.
Wasn't there a tweet or interview answer a little while back that said "zack isn't necessarily alive"?
I remember having this exact conversation with Ray in the comments 4 years ago. I also got told it was bad storytelling 😅
Zack being dead after them showing is he survived is absolutely bad “gotcha” type storytelling.
Hard disagree. The Sixth Sense and Jacob's Ladder being evidence to the contrary.
I love 12 also !
I expect literally anything at this point
I fundamentally disagree, to me all great twists start with a lie, sprinkle in some truth and then undermine the initial lie.
Darth Vader killed your father (lie), no I am your father (twist). From Obi Wans view Anakin was lost when he became Vader (sprinkle of truth).
Cloud was an EX-SOLDIER (lie) and was in Nibelheim 5 years ago (sprinkle of truth), actually he was just a grunt (twist).
Tidus travelled 1000 years into the future (lie) from Zanarkand (sprinkle of truth) which is actually a location on the map summoned into existence for the last 1000 years (twist).
There's no reason the setup for a twist can't exist as a cliffhanger.
If you understand what fundamental levels are then you get why this is COMPLETELY different from that. To use your example, this would be the equivalent of George Lucas SHOWING Darth Vader killing Anakin Skywalker then being like, "psych!", c'mon now.
@@RayCoffman like they showed Cloud as a Soldier first class and showed Tidus in Zanarkand? I'd argue showing Vader killing Anakin from Obi Wans perspective and later recontextualising it as force dream ptsd that Obi Wan is dealing with would have been really effective.
I think it's very tunnel visioned to say the Zack twist utilising him actually being in the lifestream (albeit existence outside it rather than completely within the flow itself, changing the context of his existence leading into why he's still even around in AC) fundamentally can't work, execution is everything, on paper the Cloud twist does not work because it relies on Jenova helping falsify his memories, an ability you don't know is even possible until the twist begins to unravel, and yet because of the execution the twist still lands.
I understand having a twist that just resets to the status quo doesn't always work, but the lifestream has more flexibility as a concept that a simple dead or not deas binary outcome.
I personally think we're getting two different parts of Zack's story. I think we're getting his death. I think it's simply been moved. Then we see him in the LS as well.
Zack being alive messes up Clouds state of mind and motivation, if they ever meet.
So far in the remake trilogy, Cloud still had the og loss of Zack, the character we play as in rebirth SHOULD'VE lost Zack and had his grief and expectation of being " a living legacy". But if zack is alive and they meet before Cloud resolves his identity, then Cloud is not the same character as in og FF7. End of discussion. AND if Cloud resolves his identity before the loss of Aerith - then his arc is not the same, hes not the same character.... thats why Zack is so divisive. Because you have to choose, either we have ff7 Cloud and Zack is dead OR Zack lives and FF7 Cloud is nowhere to be found.
Unless they balance it so Zack only appears as Cloud is possessed by sephiroth, about to kill Aerith. Then Cloud could fall to the dark side and still come back in part 3. BECAUSE HES AN INTERDIMENSIONAL CHARACTER who canonically lost Zack,, the whole party who exits the singularity are interdimensional characters.
Thats why we see dead versions of them so as to not have doppelgangers, except for Cloud and possibly a comatose Aerith....
Having Zack be in "another world" is dumb and stupid and FEELS like fan fiction... but if our party has entered a whole "gaia 2" then only they are anomalies and could still exist especially if Tifa2 and the rest of the party2 has returned to the lifestream. Then party1 can still be the ones we adventure with and make sense
Yeah. He'd better be alive. I'm tired of the fake-outs.
Exactly. It’s hacky.
Hey Ray I get that you believe square has at some point said zack was alive but I want you to really go back and read every single comment made about zack since remake. Ive gone through almost all if not all the comments because people keep saying that square said he was alive and i prove them wrong. Square has INTENTIONALLY left every single comment about if zack is alive or dead an ambiguous answer like "is zack alive" Zack seems to have escaped his fate" and other responses like that the latest one at the rapid fire questions people thought hamaguchi said he was alive when really he said "Hmm Challenging question I wonder how he is alive" all their answers have been left open ended and ambiguous.
No. In the original death meant something. Rebirth is coming off as Bad fanfiction.
Zach has to be alive didnt Kitase and the rest say he is party big part in the game he has to be alive I cant see why history has been changed the worlds will merge I believe we jsut dont know how becasue we wont for another two weeks once we have the game, and yea SE track record not good as usual so we shall see, but we know zack alive we see it with biggs talking, trailers dont show him joining cloud and his team if he does it would be later on.
Algorithm comment
Oh actually, I think for sure Zack is alive, but will die again for sure. If Advent Children is still cannon then we need him to enter the lifestream.
Hmmmm has me thinking that this remake saga was designed so that Advent Children is a sequel that actually makes sense (ie, events in 7 that add context to advent children).
OG 7 was so good, but the compilation never really did it any justice, nor did 7 really set up the compliation (imo)
Shouldn’t have brought Zack back at all. I don’t really care how they write it from here on out I’m just not with it. Just my opinion
watching FF14 cutscenes and getting the story from that is like reading cliff notes to classic novels. The story is fantastic and one of the best in FF. What you miss is having to play with other players and having to go on your own journey. It's a different animal from single player FF games. FF16 was a failure IMO because it was a one note game and that is not in the vein of a true FF game, it lacked the light v. dark parts. All said FF7..still the crowning jewel in gaming and about to become the mountain other games will have to climb.