Does God Work For Us or With Us? | Romans
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- Опубликовано: 8 янв 2023
- Romans 8:28 is a classic verse, rich in theological meaning. But depending on how it is translated, the emphasis changes. Prof. Wright considers the difference between God only working on our behalf, and God working together with us to establish New Creation.
The immediate context of Romans 8:28 is the prayer life of Christians in response to the darkness of the world. Attention to God’s working with humanity leads to a Trinitarian theology of prayer. God gives us God’s Spirit so that by our wrestling through the world’s travails with the Spirit, we may become part of God’s ongoing work in the world.
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"Stand in the darkness and hold on to the love of God." I love that idea of prayer.
I am so glad you are back with us on Monday morning! I have missed you. Your blessing this morning was so wonderful; the image of us standing in the darkness in the presence of God, allowing God to work through us, is so powerful and positive and hopeful. It also allows us to see ourselves as part of God's plan and purpose in the world. Thank you.
Good to see you too, Autumn! Thanks for your reflection.
Powerful and uplifting words. Thank you
We're grateful to be able to share this encouragement with you! --NTW Online Team
I love the affirmation that we as believers are in partnership with God !!
▪︎In God's great plan for mankind in redemption, sanctification as each one of us join in the "family of God" !!
■ Hallelujah !! 🎶🎻🙏
It’s a doing & a leaning. God does for those who lean on Him. Apart from Him we can do nothing.
This explanation was quite enlightening.Thanks!
Thank you for your thoughtful comment! N.T. Wright's translation of Romans 8:28, emphasizing God working "with" us, indeed offers a powerful perspective. We're encouraged to hear that it was enlightening for you. --NTW Online Team
AMEN!!! And here all my life I thought that I have been misquoting it by saying all things work together with those! And I was reading from the King James version. It is so good to have you back on Monday mornings Mr Wright. I have missed our Mondays together and I'm excited for next Monday. Thank you for your Insight
Good to see you too, Sherry!
Thank you so much for this lesson. Very helpful knowing that Jesus works with me, through me, and in me day in and day out for those I happily share my life with. Have a blessed week.
I am realising I have to be open to God to allow Him to work through me
Yes, thank you. This helps us to not think our position is a passive one and to just wait on God. We are a piece in play, with him!!❤️🙏
Interesting interpretation of "synergei". I like it. Thank you.👍
So interesting, I am reading from NT Wright's 2011 Kingdom New Testament and the wording in the 2011 edition is "...God works all things together for good to those who love him...". I love that NT Wright continues to grow and learn and I am thankful for how accessible he is to us.
Indeed! The updated translation will appear in a second edition. The revision was based on research by one of Prof. Wright's doctoral students, Haley Goranson Jacob who is now Assistant Prof. of Theology at Whitworth University in Spokane, Washington.
www.ivpress.com/conformed-to-the-image-of-his-son
Amen! Yes! God working through and with us to make all things new.
I am so glad you are back! Your words on the Scriptures you choose have and are bringing me into a fuller knowledge of YHWH. What an example you are to bring the word and truth in just a few moments.
Thank you Pastor Wright. I am reminded then to pray for regularly for some crucial ministries that I am engaged with.... university student work, support for overseas hospitals, and for situations in Burma, and Thailand.
May your work both be and bring a blessing.
I like this idea of us “cooperating” with God in the the world (I think Wright uses that term in other places. A true co (with) operating (working). So many Christians think that God functions in a deus ex machina way, waving a magic wand and making everything all right. No, God wants us to be the hands and feet in the world to do good.
Indeed! It is wonderful to be working with and participating, both as individuals and together as part of his body.
Why is this not translated properly?
Outstanding presentation. May God bless.
I often hear Romans 8:28 quoted when bad things happen to people, almost as a platitude. But a single change of a word to 'with' from 'for' makes a huge difference! Thank you for this correction.
Indeed, perhaps one aspect of the shift emphasizes what God is doing now through his people (without taking away from the promise of what he will do).
Well understood, l enjoyed tge message and felt every but of words halauyah thanks remain blessed with family Amen 🙏
Thank you so much!! I had tweeted this this morning:
Faithless is he
that says farewell
when the road darkens…
~ JRR Tolkien
#haveFaith ✨
And my friend from church texted me this video of yours a few minutes later!
Thank you!! ❤❤❤
Ps they read this in our Tuesday mass today:
And whether we be afflicted,
it is for your consolation
and salvation,
which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer:
or whether we be comforted,
it is for your consolation
and salvation.
2 Corinthians 1:6
Which is SO similar to your message too!
How wonderful! Thank you for sharing with us.
Thank you for having re-started these Monday Gospel reading sessions! I missed them, and I missed your blessings at the end.
There's so much to say about praying, and about what Paul writes about it, e.g. in Ephesians 6. All i can say is that I'd be lost if I couldn't pray, no matter how dark it is.
It's good to be back--both for reading Scripture and praying together!
Always a fresh (and faithful) perspective! I love the final blessing in every video. Thanks for this ministry!
Thanks! We're grateful you're here.
Thank you. I never really got that verse till just now
Hard to understand for those of who think 'our salvation is justified only by faith alone' as Professor put it. But I believe we are ought to play our part in working with God so that he can accomplish His good deeds through and for us. Great teaching.
Thank you! This reading allows for a more active role for us and I think it helps me to better see God's blessing in adversity. Your benedictions are especially encouraging.
Yes, and perhaps an angle of understanding that broadens our vision of purpose (to be a vessel of God’s blessing). So glad you enjoyed the benediction!
Prayer and its role has been a subject of contemplation for me these last few months. I seem to have encountered quite a few recent works on the subject. This idea- of working with God to fulfill his purposes-intersects interestingly with the idea that humans are His imagers and were meant for a different role in His (then) “good, good world.” Thank you for your reflections; they are such a blessing. I truly look forward to “but first, let’s have some tea.” For me it’s an espresso and a quick prayer as I settle back into my chair eager to listen. Your observations never cease to send me back into scripture, ideas afloat in my imagination, in full conversation with Adonai. A wonderful way to start the day.
What a lovely reflection. It's great to share our imaginations, reading Scripture, prayer, and tea (or espresso!) together!
Hallelujah! We must become people of prayer. Together in unity.
Thank you. Your insights help tremendously. To stand in the dark and pray… sometimes as I grief the death of my son, it seems hard to believe that such prayer is anything but just sorrow. Your words help to give it meaning and hope in God’s love and God’s work.
I love the explanation about our role in prayer and how it works with a for God❤
Love it. Thank you so much Noted, thanks. You really are one of my favorite sources for Biblical wisdom and insight. ❤❤❤❤
Thank you so much for this. I have never heard this interpretation, but it actually makes a lot more sense in the context. I have benefitted so much from your Reading Scripture together and am grateful for all your work. May God bless you and us richly as we continue to learn from God's word.
Thanks for your encouragement!
Thanks a clarification I needed.
Awesome!!
I danced for joy when someone sent me a link to your brief "re-reading" of Romans 8:28. "God works with and through those who love God." YES. 20 years ago I argued for and published that reading, and how delighted I was when that reading finally made it into the footnotes of the NIV Bible. Every year, in my NT Theology class, I watch with my students your 2016 Fuller Seminary Lecture on Paul and the Future of the World. Wonderful! But i always sigh when you brilliantly interpret Romans 8:18-27 and then instead of crowning the argument with Romans 8:28, you jump to 1 Corinthians 15:58 . . . where you make the right point, but could have done so even more powerfully with Romans 8:28. Now with your corrected reading, you can!
What a journey you've had over the past 20 years dedicated to encouraging a proper understanding of Romans 8:28. Thank you for your efforts and for helping others in your NT Theology class. We're honored that Prof. Wright's content has been a part of your teaching, and we are happy to continue this journey together!
Amen.. Glory to God.
THANK YOU!❤❤❤❤❤❤❤🙏
Thank you. This brings great memories of your teaching and the discussions in Waco last summer on the entire chapter surrounding this verse. Grace and peace.
well done 👏! The level of pain each endures is relative some may have too much resistance some may have very little. However, it may break or make one. As well each person may be totally faced with a different pain or type of pain, "2 to the power of (n)"!
Gm 🙏Amen
Wonderful thank you looking forward to more devotions ☕️❤
That's amazing reminds me of
ephesians 2:10 🙌💖🕊
1john 4:17 (the last part)
As he is so are we in this World 🙌💖🙏🕊
I have not expected this! Wonderful. Waking me up. May best yet to come more.🙂
More new content coming next Monday!
This is helpful to begin to grasp the full meaning of this verse. I've heard it interpreted so many ways, yet it always left me with questions. Thank you for digging in and making this understandable and hopeful as well.
Glad it was helpful!
God, neither works for us or through us. He works through us, as a vessel, he pours or expresses himself through us. That alone is true Christianity or the way
I'm very happy to have found your channel. May God continue to bless you in your endeavors.
We're thankful you're here! You'll find new content weekly on Monday.
I do hope and pray that God may work with all people of goodwill. I live in Brasilia, Brazil, and it has been so hard to perceive the polarization and growing hatred among people, which culminated in the violent events yesterday. I understand God's work must be done through prayer and action, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, but still sometimes we feel utterly helpless, as beloved people just refuse to engage in respectful dialogue.
We are seeing reports of the situation in your country and pray for a just and peaceful way forward, day by day.
In a small way, we hope this community can be a place that is safe for sharing your burdens or feelings of helplessness and to offer a ministry of presence in these difficult times.
Thank you so much for this explanation! It certainly out a new light on the verse that I think is certainly misconstrued! Maynothers who hear your teaching have their eyes opened as well. I do so much enjoy your insights !
Thanks! Glad to hear the teaching was helpful.
I had my third miscarriage this week at 19 weeks. I have been battling infertility and miscarriage for the past 8 years. When I left the hospital today I was feeling defeated, this song was my first suggestion. Praise the Lord, I do not know how I am going to collect my pieces to keep alive my dream of being a mother. But I know God is not done till is good, he will see us through it 🙏a
We are so sorry to hear about your experience of loss and anguish. Sometimes there just are no words.
Many in this community will connect with offering the cries of your heart. Simply to hear and know that we are not alone in suffering, disappointment, or grief can be a profound ministry of presence. May God be a comfort and bring solace to you, day by day.
Be encouraged, my mom had 3 miscarriages and buried a baby. I came after the 5th pregnancy. 16 years later my brother came. We are fine and are called to do the work of the lord
Thanks so much for sharing a bit of your family's story and witness to the pain and grief that is so very real in these circumstances, as is God's faithfulness.
Lovely to have you back, thanks a lot for this devotion!
We're happy to see you back as well!
❤ Amen 🙏
lovely. I'd love to see if or how the working with us in prayer (and deed?) for the good of the world combines with those that already love Jesus. Thank you for your message
Synergy is the understanding of the ancient churches. Calvinism just never made sense. We are not robots.
watching from the Philippines
Thanks for being here. Greetings from the US!
Always so thankful for these wonderful weekly devotionals. And this idea fits so well with the concept many have noted in Genesis 1:26-28, that humans were created as God's representatives in the world to care for it and bring about good. Becoming co-creators ("be fruitful and multiply"). Of course, we cannot accomplish this - as all of human history demonstrates - without God's intimate involvement (i.e. Jesus).
Yes, and perhaps along with 'co-creators' we are often 'co-sufferers' through whom God works in his world.
@@NTWrightOnline yes. Indeed.
Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Surely Paul's point is that it's the things themselves, the trials, the difficulties, the temptations, as well as the joy and victories, all things, good and bad, all things, even though seemingly out of control, work together for good, to them that love God. The things sunergeō for good, in the mighty and sovereign hand of the Lord.
I love this teaching and it certainly encourages me to live and pray as one made in His image. However, my question is that reading in the same translation, The Kingdom New Testament, it says “to those who love him” not “with”. Do I have another edition?
It’s amazing how one word will completely change the sense of this verse. I being in a rough situation for a couple of years, I lost my job sense January 2020 and I’m being struggling training to start a business of my own and when I have read this verse lately it give me hope that my present situation is just temporary and something better will happen to me. But know that I think about it is so selfish. Know I understand that in this ore any other situation God can use me to do good in this world. I have a question… witch version has the verse this way? Thanksgiving so much for sharing!
Sorry to hear that it's been difficult for the past couple of years. It takes courage to start a new business and to continue with training as you have.
The new edition of the Kingdom New Testament will reflect this translation.
With us in the sense that we are participants in the renewal of creation. For us in the sense that we inhabit the new creation even as God brings it about with and through us. It seems to me the whole monergism/synergism debate only makes sense if we assume salvation equals "spending eternity in heaven when we die". Take seriously the fact that we are images of God, created for good works from the beginning (Eph 2:9-10), who will inhabit the renewed creation with our Lord present among us and the controversy evaporates.
I don't know how to thank you for helping me put my long held intuitions about this stuff into words.
Good to see you again, Michael. Thanks for your kind words of encouragement and for your reflections this morning. The reference to Ephesians is a good reminder that we are not just passive creations, but his 'poiema'-- poetry in and for God and his world.
Dearest teacher,
Roman's 8:28, is my favorite verse. As always you bring a fresh look. Thank you. Do you know of, "The Chosen"?
Indeed, Romans 8:28 is full of promise and hope! And, yes, we're aware of the series.
@N.T. Wright Online Dearest Teacher,
Have you been able to view, The Chosen?, if so, what are your thoughts?
5:25 yes! This often gets misinterpreted as, “bad stuff happens and in this bad stuff God is using it to work together for me”
Synergism= we are a part of revealing his love and his purposes. Thank you. When/where is your next speaking engagement in USA?
Thanks for sharing!
We're hoping to be in Houston, TX, at the beginning of June. If you haven't already, subscribe to our mailing list at www.ntwrightonline.org to receive info and updates on this event (as the date gets closer), online courses, and other resources.
I would like to accept this, but I still have questions. The "those" is dative, so doesn't that imply "for those" or "to those"? And doesn't synergeo refer to pas/all things, not to those?
I have NT Wright's Bible translation on my Kindle. It says on there "for" instead of "with" as he was saying in this video. How come that is the case? - blessings
Further research and work with the biblical text was done after the publication of the first edition of the KNT. New edition will include a few other updates, as well as 'with' in the translation of this verse. Thanks for the question!
What? The next verses are about the segurity and salvation of the elect of God
So I have a copy of his kingdom translation and when I looked up this passage, he has it translated as “God works all things together for god TO those who love Him.” Not “with those who love Him.” I’m not disagreeing with what he’s saying, I’m just curious why there’s a discrepancy between the kingdom translation he’s reading from and the one I’m reading from.
We find the beauty of biblical scholarship in the way godly men and women begin with the original languages, ascertain the possible meanings of the text(s), and collaborate to do the best they can to connote the meaning of the text. In the case of Rom 8:28, the new edition of the Kingdom New Testament will reflect the meaning we find in this Reading Scripture Together devotional. One of Prof. Wright's PhD students brought evidence of an alternate reading of the text to Prof. Wright and he agreed with her assessment of the evidence and incorporated her suggestions into his translation.
@@NTWrightOnline that’s awesome. Was that the only change in the new addition?
We know of at least one more!
@@NTWrightOnline ohhh tell me! Or is it a secret lol
Stay tuned! We're checking on a release date for the new edition.
Why did you conclude our part of the work is only in prayer? The lesson of the book of Hebrews is that we put out faith in motion. In most every thing we pray for, we also do our part; like King Jehoash striking the arrows against the ground or those described in Hebrews 11:33 that through faith conquered kingdoms and administered justice. Why did you not mention the coworking of the courageous rather than those who will only produce a self-righteous and safe act of prayer; who act the coward when it is in their power to do more?
NT Wright is is a great teacher of how God works through his people in the world in many different ways. This is a major part of his teaching ministry and he has spoken extensively on it all over the world. But in this instance, he is not expounding the entire topic of how God works through humans, but rather he's dealing with one verse which has its context set in the preceding verses, which are about prayer. He is bringing deeper understanding to a well known verse that has more to offer us than is typically seen. It sits within God's broader purposes of working through human beings, but this verse is more limited in scope. He is simply expounding what the text says in Romans 8:28, not taking on the entire topic. If you want the bigger picture, there are many, many videos on RUclips with N.T. Wright discussing the broader topic at length.
@@johnwhite4991 Getting to Romans 8:28
Romans 8
Life through the spirit and not the flesh vs 1-15
15 is the prelude into spiritual adoption.
16 and 17 tie this to suffering for our king.
18 to 25 talks about the suffering that goes along with living according to the spirit and in service to the King.
Verses 26 and 27 are describing the way the Spirit helps us to pray as a continuation of that longer prose that was laid out.
In fact, I would point to Chapter 5, verse 12 as the beginning of the topic of living and acting in the spirit. That’s about 3 chapters of living your life in the spirit, and then 2 of those verses are about prayer just before 8:28 and God “working together with us” and that is what Write was teaching on: the co-working of God and men. That part is in line with the context of suffering with Christ and being heirs with Christ. But isolating prayer for the application is clearly not rightly dividing the word of truth.
Let me encourage you to be watchful not to partake in demagoguery as it is idolatry by nature and will take you away from union with God. Your faulty argument from authority is an indication of such demagoguery. That is, the context of Romans 8:28 does not change based on any skill or experience of someone that is making commentary on it. When you want to know the context of the scripture, you just read it and when you want to point out the context of scripture, you point to the scripture and not to an expert. One my favorite bits of humorous commentary is breaking down the word expert: “X is an unknown factor, and a spurt is a drip under pressure”, the other about a common-tater is just your average spud.
@@mlauntube I will not respond to your personal comments about me, nor will I retaliate and make personal comments about you. Dr Wright has offered a brief five minute devotional video with insights on one verse. He is not attempting to teach a theology of God's use of humanity, nor is he expounding the book of Romans. He has shared insights from one verse to encourage God's people. Devotionals are not the place to say everything or engage in theological debates. I appreciate his insights and find this to be a great encouragement to my prayer life. Is there more that could be said? Of course! But as a devotional, it serves its purpose well. I have nothing further to say on this. Grace and peace to you.
@@johnwhite4991 Why did you say anything in the first place? Not to have a dialog about truth. Why did you object to me giving a criticism? You are in deep there John. You don't have in mind the things of God, but you couldn't bear to see anyone give a criticism of the person who you have made into an idol.