London's Alternative High Speed 2 Stations
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- Опубликовано: 9 сен 2024
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It seems like they’re putting stations everywhere these days.
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So with Battersea Power Station, the Northern Line one could have been called "Battersea Power Station Station Underground Station"
Or BPSSUS for short,unless there's already a K-pop group called that. Bagpuss,perhaps.
My head…
It is.
It’s midnight jago
Not everywhere!
Spooky
@teecefamilykent Indeed, he has mentioned he has a decent amount of viewers from across the pond in the US, but an after midnight upload isn't the norm' here
It'll be a simple explanation.
@@teecefamilykent it is for him
@MrNerv Mr.Hazzard doesn't do simple. However if you look at my name, I do !!
Me, in America, at a reasonable hour: "Oh perfect! New Jago video right before bed!".
Me in London up way too late saying the same thing 😂
Me a northerner and it's the same
Me a Canadian in bed and agreeing!
I'm in Minnesota and am lying in bed watching this
Hello, fellow American.
Doctor , Doctor - I Keep Thinking I am a Railway Station.
"Dont worry, its not terminal"
Couldn't you sleep Jago? Me neither !!
They were all interesting proposals. Some of them wilder than others. Stratford got a mention and probably fell into the 'too far out of central London' category to be chosen. You did say its got good onward connections. Of course one of those connections at Stratford is the existing HS1 line through to Europe which might have removed the proposed need to change at Euston/St. Pancras for high speed through travel.
The voice over does say 'High Speed One' at 10:29 but I think there the reference there should be '..no easy choices for High Speed Two'.
Excellent thought provoking video, as always.
Well said. For many people north of London the most important onward connection is HS1. This would alleviate onward travellers from having to use central London. Stratford would be the cheapest option, inconvenience Londoners the least, and maximise the benefits of long distance high speed rail.
@@drewdaly61 had the Elizabeth line been planned by that point, it probably would have been a serious contender. Direct connections to the docklands would also have stood in its favour.
@mbrady2329 the Elizabeth line began construction either during or shortly after this initial HS2 study was underway.
The sad thing about HS2 is that the concept has been restricted by a Little England mentality. With the growth of overnight and sleeper services in Europe, did no one think of of overnight routes from the North of England and Scotland to Paris, Brussels, Berlin, Barcelona, etc.? For international trains, presumably a route via Stratford International might be possible once someone takes the blinkers off.
But it was thought through. Platforms on stations on the ECML were lengthened to take Eurostar trains, I can even remember seeing Eurostar trains on test runs at Peterborough. The sleeping cars were built but never entered service and eventually sold off to Canadian Railways. Apparently the bean counters in Whitehall did not like the idea. (does it not remind you of more recent episodes)
@@daviddearden6372 I knew about the earlier sleepers, but at the time, journeys were under four hours. HS2 is (was potentially) a whole new ball game. Pity.
It was looked at and the volume of expected traffic was just not considered to be sufficient. Also, it's not even as if there are such trains on HS1.
@@TheEulerID HS1 trains don't go go far enough to warrant sleepers. Edinburgh to Toulouse might. At present the last train to Paris is 2001 and the first around 0600. Running one train per hour all night would be a start. For a long time, there were no flights from Gatwick to Paris, but Eurostar killed the Kent market.
@@pmichael73 You miss the point. Trains could travel on the HS1 route to much more remote destinations by rail using sleeper services if there was a demand, and as there must be at least 15 million people within an hour of St. Pancras, if there isn't a market for that, then there most certainly won't be one from Edinburgh to Paris.
As it is, you can get a sleeper service to London and then be in Paris a couple of hours later on HS1, so there's not much difference anyway.
As it is, there are only two sleeper services in the whole of the UK anyway (Paddington-Cornwall and Euston-Scotland). You can invent all sorts of possible routes, but make them economic is another thing entirely.
As for starting at Edinburgh, then as I point out, you can do the bit to London by sleeper anyway, and extending high speed train to Edinburgh is a a pipe dream.
It never made any sense to build a terminus in London, when a though station would need fewer platforms, making the footprint of the station smaller, whilst enabling through services to destinations (eg Gatwick Airport) in the South.
One example of a plan with a through station in central London is the The Cross City Connect proposal which would build a tunnel from Old Oak Common to HS1 at Barking.
Hopefully the Euston pause will allow for a reappraisal of how high speed rail services can be extended from HS2 to destinations south of the Thames and to cities on the South Coast.
Good idea, but then those through trains have to end up somewhere and if not going to France because of security and border issues, where would you then build the terminus for them to turn round at? Ebbsfleet or Ashford?
@@ADAMEDWARDS17If a HS1/HS2 hub was created you could terminate a lot of trains there.
LOVE,LOVE, LOVE the old steam locomotive at the end.
Once I took a bus from roughly Gatwick to Heathrow, the "Gatwick to Heathrow" bus in fact, and I remember getting to where we could see Heathrow and thinking "wow we got here really fast" and then it took like 40 minutes to get to where we actually needed to be. Your video reminded me of that weird experience, thank you.
I would argue the best location for such a station would be the space between Euston and St. Pancras, placing it underground adjoining the current HS1 as a Cross Platform interchange, that would also deal with the current issues that Eurostar has at the moment (providing extra capacity) and also provide an easy interchange for CrossRail 2 when that eventually gets built.
Though I accept that there may well be the issue if what to do with the British Library which has just got permission to build a 12 storey addition and an additional 3 basement levels. I also argue that any such above ground building could easily run East West between Euston and St Pancras leaving space North South below ground potentially minimising building demolition.
And whilst the station building wouldnt be particularly large, putting the platforms below ground with a central light well to platforms as per Birmingham New Street could be a good move.....
That's part of my issue with Euston as it stands the platforms lack natural light and the station itself is dirty....lessons need to be learned for any new station....
This would've been decided long before the library got permission anyways, so it's a valid idea.
@@hrishiv even back in 2009 the British Library had 5 basement levels that run deeper than that the nearby tube lines, I do remember reading/seeing somewhere that the Victoria line runs alongside one of the basement levels
or HS2 do all three:
1. Euston put the 6 trains at grade (per existing concept), and
2. add a switch and dive some additional tracks under Euston, and put some additional HS2 platforms under existing Euston curving East...then later tie those into CrossRail2 when that is done. This could add maybe 4 trains into to HS2 Euston (10 total). So there would be 6 above ground and 4 underground. and....
3. make those underground HS2 Euston platforms a thru , curve around and into St. Pancras HS1.
All three could be accomplished at Euston HS2. Getting existing 6, additional 4 trains (10 total), bridge to St.Pancras and Crossrail2, and HS1 connectivity.
done!
There is space using the Euston Fire Station and Elizabeth Garrett Anderson Hospital , so it could work. I suppose they could have run the tunnels under the A40 and one big station joining Paddington Marylebone where half the trains could terminate and one joining Euston - KX for the other half service.
@@Carlos-im3hn I like that idea, though that doesn't take into consideration of the buildings above - a curve from HS2 into St.P HS1 would mean a far higher expense in the relocation of the British Library as it would pass through the existing basements, and those new levels that have recently been given permission, it would also cut the prepared "box" for Crossrail 2 which is already safeguarded (back in 2009 and 2017) during the renovations and expansion of Kings Cross and St. P [There is also a similar box at Tottenham Court Road].
Such a plan would also mean the removal of the Canal Tunnels which links the ECML to the Thameslink Lines through St.P given that HS1 currently pass over the top of in their own tunnels.
Personally what is needed in my opinion is to get all the current rail operators, national rail, TfL, HS1, Eurostar, HS2 and Crossrail in a room and plan out exactly what needs to happen to deal with the mass of lines in the area and plan for any shut down and rebuilding, and where trains go in that period, and any future plans for expansion then put it to parliament.
But we all know thats unlikely to happen.
As an aside I'd also argue that perhaps it may well be worthwhile for the British Library to consider moving out of London all together, or make their main base in Leeds with just a smaller outpost in London....
Such a move would allow a relatively large worksite for the plans.
Thanks Jago, I don't know how you keep thinking of new subjects for videos! Keep them coming, Andy. (PS: I live in a small village in the Midlands near the HS2 route and sometimes I think I'm probably the only person in the village who supports the HS2 project?!)
I’m so happy that Jago breaks down HS2 Discourse.
Whenever i hear "Old Oak Common" I think of that Fajita kit you can get.
It always makes me think of Ye Olde Oak ham.
A quick yet thorough analysis of the options. Very nicely done, sir.
Regarding Heathrow, how about a video about Heathrow as a whole, the history of its connections, and the ways in which other projects have been considered for it but not (yet) done?
Agreed, that would be a great idea 👍 There have certainly been quite a few projects that never quite evolved and a few that still might.
Best tube channel EVER! 😎
Is this tube channel or RUclips channel or is that the joke ?!!
Jago, I cant tell you how much I have enjoyed the past 3-4 years since I discovered your channel. If you wont run for mayor of London then I expect you to run in the coming election for parliament. A dog could be elected this time (no offense intended towards dogs). I look forward to you and Jonathan Pie bantering from the front bench. What a team! Of course you might be looking at each other across the aisle. No matter, it will be much more engaging than the last 20-30 years.
6:30 ask Stuttgart what they think about a station beneath a park. Trees are hard to rebuild
Trees are incredibly easy to replace with new trees. And if we are going to lower environmental damage, and reduce pollution, switching travel from domestic flights to electrified high speed rail is the fastest way to start reversing the damage.
@@DavidShepheard ah, i see, you didn't even bother to look even a tiny bit into it since everything you said is wrong
@@enisra_bowmanerm what? Domestic flights are horrible..
@@Elibuwu no, all the Parts of defending the S21 Scam from conservative Politicians that wanted some realestate and then needlesly destroyed a Park in the process and it's still not finished.
Also Stuttgart already sits on a Highspeedline that "soon" get's connected to another one up north and Lufthansa "flys" Passengers between Cologne and Stuttgart per ICE anyway
@@DavidShepheard a couple of young trees in a recently built park aren't difficult to replace. Ancient trees that have been in place for hundreds of years in soil that hasn't been disturbed in hundreds (if not more) of years are irreplaceable ecosystems. Some of the older trees in royal parks support a large variety of fungi and invertebrates, not to mention other fauna, but this includes rare species of fungi.
In my opinion, the St. Pancras area is the obvious best choice because it makes the connection to HS1 easier and avoids the need to build a walkway or people mover between St. Pancras or Euston. I'm a little surprised they said the ground conditions are bad, given that there's already a huge Underground and Thameslink station there. The obvious "easy" way to get lines in there would be to build them to the west of St. Pancras behind the British Library (roughly where the Francis Crick Institute is). The harder, but perhaps better way would've been to put HS2 platforms underneath St. Pancras. Either terminating style in-line with the existing platforms, or transverse through platforms with tunnels coming in from both sides, in a "Stuttgart 21" formation, and divert HS1/Eurostar services down there too, so that trains can run all the way through from HS1 onto HS2. The old St. Pancras could then be re-jigged to put EMR and SouthEastern services back into the main train shed.
Thought it be a no brainer connecting HS2 to HS1 with platforms and terminating at St Pancras 🤔
@@kstar22ify Yeah you would, but our government doesn't have much of a brain between them all. 🥴
Fortunately the Camden Sports Direct is now long gone god bless
Was just going to go to sleep as I've got an early morning tomorrow and it's already past 1, when I saw that you posted this late-night special. Now I've got to see this. Thanks for keeping me up a further 11 minutes and 35 seconds, Jago.
Looking at it from the outside and a long way away it seems ludicrous that HS2 does not connect directly with HS1 and Eurostar. Nice video.👍👍👍⭐️⭐️⭐️ from 🇦🇺
It's pretty ludicrous when you look at it from a position closer to it too. 🙂 Especially when you consider that a big thing was made of the North Of London Eurostars and Nightstars when the Chunnel was being dug and neither of them materialised in passenger service.
In India, I'm enjoying a breakfast Jago. And, since this is not Russia, that is an audio-visual, rather than a culinary treat.
Thanks for tackling this! I still don't see why they didn't consider choosing (like almost everyone else in Europe ) a through station - or preferably two - with island platforms in each direction, which could handle 18 tph easily, and be much simpler for passengers. This could have been the opening gambit in a real attempt to solve the problem created by the Victorian city fathers who banned railways from the centre of London, leaving us with this ridiculous ring of non-central termini. While the Liz line was being built - and London was crawling with tunnel-boring machines - an east-west parallel tunnel could have been built for HS2: much cheaper - only two stations (perhaps West-end and City), and four tracks each - and save all the money being spent ocurrentl;y on Euston. Later, two other tunnels (maybe NW-SE and NE-SW) could be built for other long-distance trains, with a third interchange station at Waterloo (where there is one already). Then, any long distance journey crossing London could be made with one change of train. There must be a massive market for such travel which at present people are making by driving round the M25: dismal as this is, it saves the prospect of changing at least twice, and probably being crammed into a hot tube train - often with luggage and snmall children.
Why would that be cheaper? Crossrail cost 18 billion. And uses narrower tunnels than HS2. And has platforms half the length. The West end and the city are riddled with tunnels and land/construction is hideously expensive.
I think it would've been smart to send HS2 pretty much everywhere. A flying triangle junction onto the great western mainline would give access to Heathrow, Paddington and ofc, everything that's west. A connection to the Chiltern Mainline would give access to Marylebone station, WCML to Euston and so on. The only new piece of railway to be built would be an express route through south london (say Heathrow - Twickenham - Wimbledon - Croydon - Orpington - Dartford) to meet HS1 at Ebbsfleet. It wouldn't give as much capacity directly into London, but gives way more options.
HS2 is a High Speed Line to improve travel on the Southern half of the existing WCML not a go any where line and will only be operated by Avanti West Coast Trains, plus London Marelabone would not have the space for HS2 services
The most obvious terminal for HS2 was Stratford International were it could connect with HS1, making an onward journey to Europe as easy as possible.
It's bizarre the planning is so fragmented.
Edit: Stratford has Elizabeth Line, only minutes from central London plus numerous other connections plus Thameslink soon.
Plus HS2 will stop at Old Oak Common anyway, for the west/Heathrow.
But it's all irrelevant now …
It would still need to call somewhere in central London though before Stratford, at least if you want passengers to use it.
And Euston is really pretty close to St Pancras for onward travel using Eurostar. No one is going to complain about Euston being ripped up since they already ruined it in the 60s.
Thameslink at Stratford?
@@f.g.9466 Thameslink 2, see TfL
I think to takes pressure off of the wcml the terminus should be a central London one because travelling out of central London would as to commuting time unless the hs2 went through central London.
I really love these type of videos where you explore alternate plans and possibilities.
A surprise nocturnal Jago!
Another interesting and engaging video - quite the knack for managing to make anything interesting even for the more casual fan of London rail transport.
A video from JagoHazzard at midnight? What a miracle!
I find Marylebone one of the less mentioned London termini. I went through a phase of travelling between London and Birmingham and often used Marylebone to B'ham Moor Street as a more relaxed alternative to (then) Virgin Trains from Euston. It takes 2 hours and stops more places but was also significantly cheaper.
I know less about the area, but it is not so well connected as the other termini, being served only by the Bakerloo Line.
HS1?.. I think you mean HS2 10:29
It's ok - only a very few of us will have noticed 😉
maybe he meant "... for high speed Won !" or maybe it is a subtle Thunderbirds reference. Or maybe it was too near midnight and the PM to AM thing.
Wow, a morning video from Jago! What a pleasant surprise!
17:22 Liverpool Street would’ve been perfect! I live in Norwich, and this neck of the woods is a “traveller’s nightmare,” as East Anglia’s not easy to access from places like Peterborough, and a “through-route” would’ve been much easier for people travelling in and out of the county without the bottlenecks.
Any change at Camden would attract massive opposition. This is why they can't fix the tube station afaik.
Whato all,
I'm surprised they didn't think of Stevenage. You could knock down the centre of that town and no one would miss it.
Dear Jago, from the lessons learned on HSR I would like to add the following; High Speed Rail functions best when its trains can arrive and exit at their destinations on dedicated track routes. Just for comparison, take a look at the timetable turmoil which is affecting both HSR, Intercity, Regional and Local rail services in Germany and yet another good example is the Netherlands. Where the ICE trains need to merge with other traffic on the same station throats and approaches the amount of delays are significant. That’s exactly why there is at the very moment such an emphasis on rerailing the bottlenecks of important rail hubs in the two countries I mentioned. The amount of reconfiguration going on around Cologne, Duisburg, Essen, or Rotterdam is beyond significant. In that sense the choice for Euston Station can be a huge advantage. Especially, when indeed the High Speed tracks are installed on separate right of ways. Question of course is, will it indeed happen as planned? Or, as you announced in the beginning of the vid, will this service again be compromised by rather petty political ‘choices.’ Definitely hope the HS2 will find its own right of way to make this part of British Rail into the success that’s necessary.
Kind of interesting that ‘Ground Beef News,’ definitely will look into it. From the branch lines of your turnouts, a warm Cheerio!
... Surprised to see this pop up when I'm awake this late. This'll be a good video to fall asleep to, cheers haha
The whole point of High Speed Rail was supposed to be that you'd be able to get on a train in Edinburgh, Newcastle, Leeds, Manchester or Birmingham and get off the very same train in Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam, etc without having to change trains. Of course the only people (exaggeration alert) who aren't bothered about the fact this isn't happening are people who already live in London! [I remember a very big advert just outside B'ham Airport which advertised the fact you'd be able to go non-stop and direct to Paris from there. That poster was there for many years IIRC].
Exactly this. International travel from all parts of mainland UK by rail. Instead it's a London to Midlands line, which has already failed, Grand Central. Just a scheme to pay construction companies billions for a worse service.
Definitely. I guess a terminal at Euston means an international connection to the line at St Pancras isn't impossible, but I can't see it ever happening. Now there's trains to Amsterdam and talk of them to Berlin, opening that up to Birmingham and other parts of the UK would make sense.
Stratford got a mention. If that had been selected it potentially would have included a direct link with HS1 and through trains to/from Europe.
I agree that that's ONE of the points of HSR in the UK. It's not the WHOLE point though. The main points are to 1) speed up journeys 2) separate fast and slow services so that you make more efficient use of tracks and thus increase capacity.
A connection between HS2-HS1 was planned but got cut (for dumb reasons). It would have involved connecting the 2 tunnels north of Euston and St Pancras either with a tunnel or using the line through Primrose Hill Station. Stratford International would have acted as the London station.
I get the purpose of the current cut back form of hs2 but personally I wldve cut the London to Birmingham section rather than the northern part essentially creating an upgraded northern powerhouse scheme
The best value for money was the Leeds - Birmingham section. Next best was the Manchester - Birmingham. Old Oak - Birmingham is the worst value. Should indeed have been north to south.
I also get the point. Raising property prices in Birmingham to pad MPs investments.
HS2 to Birmingham just makes a Birmingham London commute viable where it maybe wasn’t before without providing any value to the rest of the country.
The west coast, east coast and midlands mainlines will outpace it from cities further north as they’re more direct and so it now purely serves Birmingham.
@@lukestevens8735 Nice and cheap to build in the north - the Leeds to Birmingham route is an atrocious 2 hours at the moment, takes the same amount of time to get to London as it does to Birmingham :)
Maybe, but they've already done a lot of tunneling, so it was probably hard to back out of. Cutting the northern section allowed the Conservatives to screw over the next government as well as the country, so I can imagine it felt very appealing!
They definitely should've done the North of Birmingham part 1st
In the 70's there was a suggestion of using Bricklayers Arms, but there were limited on going connections and then the 1970's tunnel was cancelled.
Cricklewood is not such an odd pick: I suspect the plan was intended to use the huge amount of unused railway land on the old sidings/goods yard.
The greater difficulty for Cricklewood might have been onward transport links. Whilst transport links in Cricklewood are generally good (buses, Tube stations at Kilburn, Willesden Green and Golders Green, and of course it's on the Midland Main Line), I can envisage that adding capacity might have been difficult. The area is seemingly at or near capacity. Also, the road layout in the Cricklewood area is limiting (ironically due to the presence of the Midland Main Line itself).
As it stands, the Cricklewood railways lands are being turned into Brent Cross Cricklewood, a new town centre, to be located between Brent Cross (Hendon) and Cricklewood. This will bring thousands of new residents and the transport issues will definitely still be a problem.
I always enjoy these videos, your commentary is terrific and the topics you choose to talk about are very interesting. Phenomenal video as always Jago!
Informed and informative quality late night viewing from Mr Hazzard just after Michael Portillo.
The idea of above or below Euston is intriguing. Wasn't there the issue of crossing a canal and going through a hill that made construction of Euston and Kings X St P originally a bit tricky?
I do like good quality information. The misinformed public can be a dangerous breed (and they shouldn't be allowed to either!).
Great video sir and of course....ahhhh zombies!
Last thing anyone wants is zombie Yerkes walking around a station...
Yes, don't give him ideas lol
turn it into arrrr ride like arrrr Pirates of the Caribbean.
Arrrh Jim lad!
Fascinating -- thank you
10.32 A freudian slip?
Until HS2 continues to Manchester Leeds and beyond it should be renamed HS1.5 as a continuing remider the failure of UK to invest in and develop rail infrastructure comparable to the EU. 😡
Howdy from Texas. I’m glad the former spot of The Cross nightclub was cut from the list. It’s nice to go back to and reminisce. Good times!
good morning, early morning Jago.....
still watching i am
Like everyone else has commented. A late one, Jago!
Most welcolme though I should add! 👍
Nice swipe at a certain sports shop chain there !!
As close to Euston as possible was surely the ideal choice, as anyone commuting to London using the West Coast Mainline either is going to that area already, or would be able to use exactly the same onward travel options they are already using. If someone working near Euston found that HS2 was terminating in Heathrow or Old Oak Common, they would definitely want the current West Coast Mainline services to continue at their current frequency. Of course, even with this, someone in Coventy, Nuneaton or Rugby might not be happy if their journey times increase and frequency of service decreases soon after HS2 is opened.
At the Birmingham end - and it is an end - there will be no onward services to other parts of the West Midlands without a walk. For people like me with a medium speed direct service via New Street to Euston I don’t see any attraction in using Curzon Street.
@@petergilbert72 There will be some onward travel options, such as the tram extension, busses or trains from Moor Street, but nowhere near as good as New Street, especially on the rail front. I can certainly see people who want to go in the Selly Oak or Wolverhampton direction being a bit peeved.
@@petergilbert72 A bit more research and I see the tram does go to Wolverhampton, but I suppose it won't be as fast for people who want to go to the far end of the journey. Also no idea about trains direct between Wolverhampton and London after HS2. I assume there must be some now, and they should keep them, but will they? I think Coventry is the place that could lose out most, because HS2 won't stop there, but they'll probably cut Coventry to London express trains down.
The entrance to the new Curzon Street Station and New Street Station is a 9-minute walk. Not exactly a marathon.
@@PLuMUK54 When everywhere is talking about connectivity and making public transport as easy as possible creating a terminus station with an obligatory change of train seems short sighted. Perhaps Curzon Street will require some tunnelling to provide longer distance one train journeys like Brussels or Stuttgart. A single point to point line seems like something from the very first railways.
Thank you for this. I do get fed up with arm chair pundits who seem to assume HS2 was a back of an envelop design with no other options condidered (e.g. the Great Central was a purpose built Berne guage high speed line, so should have been used even though that's not accurate). So it's great that you show how in this case the sifting processs is why Euston was chosen. Perhaps theres some more videos to come on the many alternative routes looked at for HS2 and how they were whittled down to what is being built. But that might be an awful lot of video!
jaggo really be out there in the night tube uploading vids at midnight
Lots of the most crazy ideas are simply to show that they really have considered every option - when people oppose whatever is chosen as the solution, being able to show that yes, you really did consider all the options is legally useful
All those people mentioning onward travel are possibly missing half the point: a high percentage of people are travelling to London or various parts thereof. It is more important to have good underground connections and perhaps to the London rail network. Connections to (say) HS1 are secondary. Having said that Euston is not a good choice in itself - its Underground connections are not really up for any more traffic. Underneath St Pancras would have been a better bet - not that much further that Euston, perhaps allowing for HS1 connection, but importantly far better Underground connections, Thameslink and perhaps (with a moving walkway) allowing a direct connection to Farringdon Lizzie Line. Probably too late now but in the meantime the area around Euston has been decimated.
With little or any expertise in these matters, how about going with Old Oak Common, but feeding in to HS1 and developing Stratford International.
If you do make a video focussing on the Heathrow suggestion, perhaps a read up on the proposed "HS4Air" would be interesting. If I remember correctly, it was proposed to connect HS2 to HS1 via Heathrow and Gatwick, providing fast flight transfers between the two airports whilst also providing through services from Europe to North England bypassing central London completely. Seems like a rather great idea in my book... most be why it was ignored.
Well done. Another excellent video
Late one jago??
Better late than never, even though it took me by surprise
Wouldn’t it have been funny to link high speed 1 with high speed 2 by using St Pancras!
Nice to have a butcher's at your videos when I'm sitting on me Khyber to rest me plates!
Happy Easter Jago.
Hey, so why was Farringdon rejected? It has great capacity with metropolitan, h&c, and circle lines, as well as Thameslink and now the Elizabeth line? Sure, land around the station would be expensive to buy, but otherwise it would make for a great spot.
Euston's northern line and Victoria line are going to be completely overwhelmed when HS2 are complete, they're already packed to the brim in the peak hours.
Now that the suggestion of Farringdon has been put to be from this video, I can't help but think about how great it would be!
As usual, very interesting video Jago! Really has got me thinking about where I put a new train terminal in London, if I could:)
Would it have been possible to connect HS2 to HS1 to allow through running? This would have linked the North of England with the continent - and surely been a great advantage for all of the UK. We really should have learnt lessons from the Victorians, who ended their railways on a ring (or Circle if you prefer) around central London. A through route like Thameslink is so useful. And a through station in Central London wouldn't need to be as large as a terminus.
You mean “Tonight’s Video”?
Lots of food for thought here, Jago. Wouldn't it be interesting if the odd train could use the North London Line over to St P International for connectivity sake... Sigh...
That same North London Line that is now the Overground, providing a frequent metro service plus goods trains, and would have no spare capacity?
6:10 i mean, all things considered, birkbeck gets along decently despite being right next to a cemetery
It's arrived!
A smaller through station under Euston-St Pancras would be preferable with HS2 trains terminating at Stratford. Also allowing CT trains to terminate at OOC when additionally capacity is required.
Why would people from the Midlands and the North want their train services on HS2 to London to terminate at Stratford for gods sake
06:59 RIP The Tomb Raider Live Experience 😢
With the current rail network in UK being ludicrously expensive anyway, will anyone be able to afford to travel on HS2 even assuming it gets finished and works?
Love watching all your videos and surprisingly I'm in Australia.
Turning an airport into a transport hub with good rail and bus connections makes sense. Both Amsterdam and Paris have done that, as have many others.
Question, why is the noise so loud on the train in the new Northen Line extension to Battersea Power Station?
I thought that because they have new tracks the trains would ride more quietly along that section but it seems just as loud as the area around Euston to Camden Town 🤔
To this day, I think that the best option would have been Waterloo, taking the space of the old EuroStar sheds. This could have been complemented with intermediate stops at Somers Town (with travelator links to Kings Cross, St Pancras and Euston) and a CrossRail interchange at Tottenham Court Road. If Waterloo is too tricky (because of old buildings / existing tube routes) then another option would be to follow the proposed route of the CrossRail 2 core from TCR to Clapham Junction, via Victoria.
Either option would cover a lot of "onward connection".
The under the Thames one is my favourite. I'll have a couple of ounces of whatever they were smoking when they came up with that one 🙂
They probably did a thorough investigation on all (even obvious non-starters just to add cost). But it also flies in the face of those who have said "why didn't they do xxx ", stating the most obvious but fundamentally flawed ideas.
I would have liked Marylebone. A lovely station just waiting for trains!
Marelabone does not need to wait for trains, it is full to capacity with train services with Chiltern Train Services to the Chiltern Area of Oxfordshire and Birmingham
You're right Jago, I am sick of it!
A very expensive railway line between two places I never ever want to visit regardless of the speed of the train.
You do realize that that train still goes all the way to Glasgow right. It’s just the high speed bit that has been canceled. But once ERTMS is installed on the WCML trains can go faster then they do today
Just as well nobody cares whether you want to visit them since it's not really about tourism anyway. Just as well you'd still be benefiting from the capacity improvements regardless - or would have done if it was built in full...
@@MrJimheeren I don't want to go to Glasgow either.
@@GryphLane I think the total lack of enthusiasm for the project tends to back my stance don't you?
@@marklatimer7333 No it doesn't. It backs the stance that the government doesn't understand railways; never really wanted to do it and did a terrible job of explaining to the public why it was a great idea (increasing capacity on the whole network. Not just speeding up travel to somewhere you don't want to go, by 10 minutes).
I'm surprised they didn't build it at Heathrow, then announce the closure of Heathrow shortly after completion.
OMG JAGO that pun.... hahahaha
I love your videos but as someone not from Lodon I'd enjoy a short map overlay when you talk about some stations to get a feel where it is compared to other stations/options
This does sound like the loonies have all been let out together! My suggestion? Convert the Palace of Westminster / Houses of Parliament. This already looks like a railway station, and it would be an opportunity to provide a modern location for Parliament and Government offices...
Admittedly the area is originally wetland, and periodically tries to remind us of this, but then the Railways were able to deal with Chat Moss at the very beginning of the railway age, and it doesn't seem to create too many problems for the Victoria Station complex.
Something linking with Stratford would be very sensible so that HS2 could run though trains to France.
For what logical reason would HS2 a line, the operater being Avanti West Coast trains need to run to France
You'd only need to have the station entrance on Trafalgar Square. The actual platforms would go down the Mall.
I still feel they could have used some of SWR's platforms at Clapham Junction. Admittedly, platforms 1 and 7-17 are quite busy, but if it had come through via Barnes onto platforms 2-6 surely they could have made room for a couple more trains an hour?
Tricky stuff. It seems to have got very complicated.
It was very good when I lived in Clapham; Home to Paris was 5 stops, 2 changes. Now, from Edinburgh, it's about 8 stops, 3 changes. The HS is becoming a mess.
Oh it's Marleybon's turn again today, is it?
How about a totally new station called “Hazzard International” ?
"You are the cut to my cover," sounds very romantic.
I don't mind sharing a station with ghosts and zombies - makes the commute a bit more interesting!
You clearly haven't been at Kings Cross in the small hours, or you would have experienced something close to what you describe.
Probably no point in Heathrow or Watford, as by the time you've made your way to London, you've negated any time saving that HS2 has made
Euston still has to be rebuilt in full for HS2 trains otherwise the new line will be next to useless for the capacity improvements. And someone is going to have to reverse the cancellation to Leeds and Manchester in order to bring the rest of the capacity improvements
assuming when they say terminous they dont neccessarily mean the terminous of services but the end of the HS2 route - Watford junc/willesden junc/clapham junc would allow train to go into existing euston ect.
Unfortunately not much is happening at Euston when HS2 got told to stop which is a a shame
Now that HS2 only goes to Birmingham it is totally pointless.
It does not just go to Birmingham, the HS2 line carries on past Birmingham to Handsacre in Staffordshire where it will join an upgraded West Coast Mainline to Manchester and Crewe
Bit worrying about the ground conditions making it difficult under Paddington bit, considering the area is now chock full of subterranean lines and stations.
re. Battersea Power Station, I used to think they should have put HS1 terminal in there. However, on reflection, it was probably a bad idea given the lack of connectivity and the fact that the train lines adjacent were/are 1) already massively congested; and 2) slow, third-rail rather than, like, high speed.
My vote in an alternative reality would be for Canary Wharf and Canada Square... Then again I am Canadian and intensely proud of my nation's weirdo development families like the Reichmann's of Olympia & York fame for building such a wildly ambitious scheme in an area that was really under-valued/served/used and the fact my provincial government and I are quarter owners in London City airport... Along with Ontario pension plans and I believe the Kuwait Investment Authority... ;-)
@stickynorth You certainly know what it's all aboot eh? 😂😂😂
There is precedent elsewhere for a major station under a major city park. Chicago's Millennium Park was built on top of an existing, working rail yard, creating one of the largest green roofs in the world.