Hi there, viewers! An adapted text version of this video is now available on Medium: quotidianwriter.medium.com/writing-tips-for-fixing-overwritten-and-underwritten-prose-d7d735da7eda
I'm a severe underwriter, but it's more intentional than not. I've always had issues with holding passion for one story at a time and always got sidetracked when writing first drafts, so nowadays I solely focus on word count for that first draft and getting the story on the page. Then, when rewriting comes around, even though it takes much longer, it feels less daunting and I can have more fun with it. I think it was Hemingway who said "The only kind of writing is rewriting."
Dude, I've got like 37 different Google docks files saved, each is a different story. I pick whichever one I'm in the mood for and they are all progressing together. I'm the type to dive in the dark (didn't plot a single thing 💀) so I'm testing to see which one will stick.
Me too, being an underwriter of the first draft in most scenes. For me, one of the many reasons is that I learned from movie scripts, where it's just dialog and minimal setting and action details. But also because I come from a background of (non-computer) game design, and much of the plot is assembled like a puzzle, where the feeling and dynamics are where I start from, and only add the mechanics, relationships and details later. And also because I'm an impatient reader, and want my story moving along to its essential components.
@@tsu2155 and I thought I was the only one with this problem. I kinda dropped the whole thing some Years ago believing I get distracted too easily or simply not cut out for writing. I have strange problem for stumping around 15-16 pages for whatever I write. Then it's complete blank.
I am the posterboy for underwriting. I could easily have pared down that first Fiona/Hector example. Fortunately, the other examples really clarified how I can fix it.
I thought it was gonna be that Hector had a secret child, and that’s why the main character brought up the time he insulted her mother, since this is an even greater insult (cheating on the mom)
I'm an underwriter, and I like reading books that lean that way as well. People give George R.R. Martin a lot of crap for his long winded descriptions, but he can be impressively economical with words when he wants to be: "Jaime scrambled to his feet. "My lady. I had not thought to see you again so soon." Gods be good, she looks ten years older than when I saw her last. And what's happened to her face? "That bandage ... you've been wounded ..." "A bite." She touched the hilt of her sword, the sword that he had given her. Oathkeeper. "My lord, you gave me a quest." "The girl. Have you found her?" "I have," said Brienne, Maid of Tarth. "Where is she?" "A day's ride. I can take you to her, ser ... but you will need to come alone. Elsewise, the Hound will kill her."" - A Dance with Dragons
Me too, and I also prefer underwriting in my books. For me, one of the many reasons is that I learned from movie scripts, where it's just dialog and minimal setting and action details. But also because I come from a background of (non-computer) game design, and much of the plot is assembled like a puzzle, where the feeling and dynamics are where I start from, and only add the mechanics, relationships and details later. And also because I'm an impatient reader, and want my story moving along to its essential components.
I honestly agree with you - I thought the "over-written" version sounded pretty good. It needed 2 or 3 edits to the sentences that described a character's motions in melodramatic body movements & cliches, but other than that, it'd be considered a better 1st draft
I found this very inspiring. Now I'm definitely in the mood for writing... I probably shouldn't have watched it with my morning coffee right before I leave for work.
I simply overwrite to understand the scene and story, and then I condense the overwritten plot elements to a digestible and enjoyable medium. I enjoyed this greatly!
I am a very VERY big underwriter, and honestly, even that example felt good written for me. I do have a habit of getting the reader completely stuck in a character's thoughts sometimes, but I'm yet to learn how to write, because I genuinely enjoy it! This video was very insightful, Thank you.
I'm an over writer, I think I like to tell in different ways how a character is feeling but it can come as redundant, I also get really immersed in descriptions to the point that I give examples or comparisons to let clear how is the thing/ feeling I'm describing but again, sometimes is just too much lol
When it comes to setting descriptions, I'm a chronic underwriter. My brain naturally focuses on action and dialogue over description. The best technique I've found to fix it is in editing. I get to a description I need to expand and find an ambience track for a similar location. There are tons out there for every location, thanks to tabletop roleplaying becoming so popular. Then I sit back, close my eyes to let the ambience build the scene in my mind and add the new elements to the (bare bones) description that's already there.
These videos are so astoundingly good! I'm not much of a comment writer, but I just wanted to take the time to thank you for these. The lessons, the editing, commentary, production value, etc. are all golden. You deserve so many more thousands of views and subscribers. I truly believe you'll get there some day with this kind of quality. Thank you :)
@@QuotidianWriter Firstly , I was disappointed when you said this video will focus on " Cupcakes and not the whole bakery " . I'm likely to be guilty of *BOTH* underwriting of scenery and of plot 😓. I understand that you've got only a certain amount of finite time to make your videos & with more topics to cover in them , you risk the chance that *NOBODY* will watch any of your videos { if they're too long } . I'm afraid { so to speak 😳 } of when starting my story { of } plagiarizing the style of the other writers when you have shown me those paragraphs 😕 . If we talking about cupcakes { for real } I don't like frosting at all . I'm not much of a reader either & don't like thick heavy wording of narrative and scenes. A story rich in character status and diversity , I love 🥰📖 though. The last reading in this video i found perfect 💯%. 👨⚖️🇦🇺🇳🇴 ▶️👍
Omg thank you so so much for this. I know this is one of your older videos but I am SUCH an overwriter. I was trying for ages to find advice on how to fix this, and I didnt even know the term overwriter existed until now. Again, thank you!!
I'm currently writing a story i had a hard time figuring out what i wantes to do with, just that it was there and i wanted to write it. The biggest solution i've found, underwrite. Start at the bare zero. Know what that start, middle, and end would be, and then figure out how to get to and from each part of the story. I end up making bulletpoints of the scenes my mind comes up with and then start writing from there. Write single or a couple sentences for each part and keep writing parts of that scene until all the beats of the scene has been hit, and move on to the next until that first draft is done. Take a break. Then come back and expand on each scene all the way through til it meets a certain amount of words or it has a vague picture in the mind. I do that for a whole draft, finish it, then i come back after my mind has sat and stewed with it for awhile. I'll then use that old draft and completely re-write EVERYTHING from the prior draft. I'd use each sentence and pair of sentences as a guide, and expand on specifically that section. I'd go through and write my entire draft doing that, putting in the vaguest notion of what the dialogue would be. When done with that, the actual events would be done, and i'll go in and fill in the characters personalities and dialogue more. Fill in how the villain and hero work. Basically i write like a painting or an essay. Start with nothing and fill it in til i'm happy. But i'll go backvand do more cleaning up. polishing dialogue. Thoughts. Tweaking scenes. It's a very hack-away method i suppose but i think it works for me. I have a dozen or more notes about each character and other aspects of the characters lives and stories as seperate notes and documents. Even if it isn't all used.
Is it possible to be both?🤣 In terms of depicting a characters emotions, I think I could be leaning more toward over-writing, yet in terms of depicting the environment, I am definitely more prone to under-writing🤣 Anyway, this was a very interesting video that brought on an "Aha!" moment - so thank you for that!🙏😊
Thanks again Diane, some good stuff in there. After I'd watched, like, 30 seconds, I suddenly got inspired to write an example. Tell me how I did if you like! Overwriting: If you'll be driving along SH2 from Masterton, heading north, you might experience a much-stated phenomenon. You'll have played car-cricket for a while, considered stopping at the Mount Bruce Wildlife Sanctuary and decided you'd better keep heading on for now. You'll have gotten hungry, (What? You only just had lunch!) and thirsty, and then argued about what music to play in the car before getting annoyed and having to turn the ruddy thing off, (Great! Now neither of us gets what we want!) Silence. You'll be looking at the beautiful scenery. Pastures, trees, streams, rivers, farms - very rustic. Then you'll start to nod off. You'll have felt the car slow down and notice your dad has put the indicator on. "Are we at the turn-off already?" "Yup," he'll have replied. "Hmm. And I didn't even notice us driving through Eketahuna! Rats. We missed Retro-Republic!" Normal: If you're going to be driving north from Masterton, you may be hoping to stop briefly at that second-hand clothing shop in Eketahuna. Keep your eyes peeled - that town just appears out of the countryside, and you'll be through it in a flash." Underwriting: Eketahuna? Blink and you'll miss it! P.s. from your descriptions of how overwriters may feel upon receiving you're-overwriting feedback, I immediately felt defensive! I guess my weakness is much more on the overwriting side of things...
I'm a chronic overwriter, so I've been trying to take steps into cutting back on prose 😂 recently I did a month-long challenge where every day I filled out a writing prompt in only and exactly 100 words. It was insanely difficult!!
At first, I thought I was an underwriter. But, as I’m writing my draft as of now, I think I might be both honestly. I underwrite the description of the places my characters are, but just enough so readers would know where they are; and I overwrite when I’m writing the character’s thoughts and emotion, or internal monologue or basically that had to do with the characters. So, I underwrite descriptions; I overwrite emotions. But, in honestly, reading a novel, it’s not about the story, but the characters. I think I read a tip somewhere: Simple story, complex character. So, if you have a compelling and well-developed character, then they could and will carry a bad story. If the characters bad, and the story’s bad, then you can see the readers putting down the book.
Underwriter here. I actually had a scene where there should have been a lot more dialogue, but, well... here's what I did... Yoshi looked up, but unsure what to say, she looked back down at the files. After some time of inane bantering with an extremely patient Yuna, she looked towards the Space Master.
This was timely as I just finished underwriting a very important part of a story I'm currently developing. I had a feeling I was underwriting the scene but I didn't want to force in too much detail. Listening to this has given me a few ideas on how I might add the proper amount of frosting so to speak. I may come back to this one. Thanks.
Great video as usual. For me, the Fever series by Karen Marie Moning is the perfect example of overwriting. A third of each book is endless internal monologing. I always feel like I'm reading the first draft when I read her books. I tend to underwrite in most situations myself.
I don't know why but I felt reading game of thrones there was some overwriting.... Maybe that's just my underwriter self not loving the details of martins writing 😂
I decided to take today to look through some writing videos and gather some materials to help my story going forwards. I think you might be the only person who provided examples and not just advice with no context. Thanks so much for the help!
The character voices for Fiona and Hector have given me life on this gray morning. Really helpful vid. I think finding *your* balance between over/underwriting is practically the skeleton key to storytelling and style. Which is why it's a constant battle :P
I think you could overwrite and underwrite for artistic expression. But but not in every paragraph! Maybe when someone, might be under stress and not thinking clearly or when they're angry, shocked or scared.
@@lorrismalls4736 Yes, you can def underwrite certain characters vs others for characterization, too. Like, if you have a character whose mind is always wandering (think: Mrs Dalloway by Virginia Wolfe) then you'd write lots of sensory detail & thoughts about the past
After watching this video I’ve learned that I’m an over writer most of the time. I want to paint the whole picture out for my reading when I should give them the brush a little more, let them put the lines together a little more. I need to focus like the camera example. A picture looks better when the focus is only on the object you what their eyes to look at first. Everything else would just crowd the picture and their focus won’t be on what’s really important. Love this example. When writing and editing I’ll think of a camera when questioning myself. Thank you!
I really like the way you use metaphors frequently to illustrate your points, like the one about the cupcakes. That's an extended metaphor if I'm not mistaken, in other words it's developed throughout the video. I love using metaphors and symbolism in my writing. In one of my short stories which is about 5000 words I have about 8 symbolic references in it.
What I've decided to do with my current novel is have two different versions. One where I can write as much as I like, the other one for publication, much more concise. This way I am more likely to make the necessary edits for publication, knowing I have a version for myself -and friends if I want to share -that is the full length, extended version. So I let myself write to my heart's content, keep a copy of that, then copy and paste my work to a blank document for editing.
I think this is a great approach! I've done the same with short stories. For me, it's hard not to feel like the "extended cut" is always the better version, haha!
🎉 congratulations on making the comprehensive Kodak camera details,😮it really unfolded all my questions and curiosity if a will be a good prose writer this will only be because of urs kindling knowledge provided in the video in a lovely voice thanks a lot
Good video, I was thinking that in the balanced version she doesn't have to say anything after slapping the letter on his desk. It's obvious it's a letter, it's obvious she is angry, and his reaction could explain he intentionally never showed it to her.
Steven King; do much frosting you can't even fund the cupcake underneath. He wrote 7 pages for a kid to take 1 step and twist the door knob to room 237. I only ever finished one of his books although my wife bought them all and I tried several.
You had me at cupcake!😜 What an ingenious device to help writers distinguish between what they desire, versus what is necessary! Usually, when I see this topic tackled it feels like one is suffering through a Latin grammar class. It is example after example of technically correct writing and nothing more. But your videos are so beautifully conceived and executed, Diane! They are deeply engaging on both intellectual and emotional levels. Your gift for laying bare the problems we writers are having and for offering applicable, engaging solutions is top-notch. Thank you for making this, and all of your other videos. As a massive overwriter, I will be referring to this video over and over again.
You have to have a lot of patience writing a book. I'd rather be a chef preparing Fugu some days! Lol. Even when you're naturally good at storytelling, it's still going to take skill to execute everything you say. I wish everyone the best on their endeavors. It's not easy. I could just picture that tasty cupcake with the right amount of lemon frosting. So I clicked subscribe!!!
This is excellent advice. I always appreciate your videos. Your underwritten example of the Fiona and Hector scene felt familiar. My first drafts seem like that, often containing a lack of sensory details. Yet, as you also acknowledge, it's too simplistic to label our own writing styles as "underwritten" or "overwritten". Most of us do a little of both, whilst perhaps having tendencies in one direction or the other. Thank you for the tips, which are definitely helpful. 😃👍💖💝
I have trouble with underwriting most of the time. When I studied journalism in college I was taught to write with as few words as possible. That was over 25 years ago, and now that I'm writing fiction, it feels like I'm constantly underwriting. Thank you for the helpful video.
I prefer the cake with too much frosting, both literally and figuratively. :D Also, I'm an overwriter. And I like to read books with nice and detailed descriptions, as long as they're not of totally pointless or meaningless things. Like, exactly what type of flowers are growing on the plain the heroes are just passing by... (I'm looking at you Tolkien!)
I am heartened to have found you. Your competency in producing good teaching and good teaching videos is extraordinary. Thank you for your buoyancy of delivery. For the help you are giving me. Kudos!!
I've been trying to write a book for some time. I gotta thank you for all the information ur channel gave me, and i think i became slightly better at writing 'cause of ur indirect help. Ur channel is one of the few that offers this kind of help and insight, i really appreciatte what you are doing, keep it up! Greetings from Argentina.
Thank you, Diane. As always, presenting interesting tips. I overwrite, specially in messenger. For fiction writing I never know of how much frosting there is, until I review the whole chapter, close to a month after I'm done with that particular chapter.
I think I'm initially likely to overwrite, as a means of clarifying in my own mind what I want to say, and then trim. Possibly this marks me out as a rookie!
On the one hand, I like no frosting. Up my arm, across my chest, and down again, placed upon the other hand resides a highly specialized cupcake with frosting akin to my simplest descriptions of the finest details pertaining to inconsequential elements within any given span of text are as a doctoral dissertation competing to solidify my complex philosophical point of reference, which persists in its elaboration even well after my fiftieth reduction of the carefully crafted proposal.
I had written two own character fictions on wattpad and got some good feedbacks for my first work story about tramatized man who was blamed by his father for being gay. Most of the readers like that man but I got some feedbacks that point my writing is full of monologues and Characterization. I wrote many thoughts of character and every sensory details as I've learned to write with sensory details in some lecture.I thought what wrong with my work when that feedback told me ,"your writing is good but your story is boring as you push many thoughts and movements,and you forgot the fluency of dialogues." Now , I understand that all ofmy problems is overwritting! Thanks, I will try my best.
I'm a natural over-writer who piles details into run-on sentences. I found that pretending to write either hard-boiled or like Ernest Hemingway gets me a nice balance because it tames my dragons. I learned this trick in a pre-Covid IRL writing group, so can't take credit for it, but it works for me. Your mileage may vary.
Thank you. I write nonfiction, but I think you've shared some principles that will help me. I'm in the process of re-wrting my third book. This video will be playing in the back of my mind as I work.
I wasn't sure if I was underwriting at the current stage I'm in, but I realize underwriting is essencial in first drafts. I've killed way too much time trying to perfect certain scenes when I haven't even finished laying out the second half of the story, which would likely lead me to edit these "perfect" scenes yet again.
I just want to thank you, your videos help me out tremendously. you give me something to think about every time I watch a videos. and helpful hints on how to fix your writing without sounding condescending your videos are chalked full- of helpful information. I am definitely an Overwriter: I drift into the purple prose territory and I struggle with grammar. there are so many video of what not to do as a writer you forget the reason why you love writing in the first place. "Write without fear, edit without Mercy" is one of my favorite quotes. I have always believed that everyone has a story to tell and that, their audience is out there somewhere.
Thank you for making this video and for putting it up on Medium! I’m looking to revise the drafts of my stories, and this is the perfect video that is secretly teaching writers that 1. first drafts are sht, 2. revision is key.
I like a moderate amount of frosting, but I like the light, whipped cream frosting. Simple and light language is far more effective to be than flowery and dense words.
Literally editing is so hard for me...how did she say it? "Emotionally attached" That's exactly how I feel towards almost everything that's fresh in the paper, that I wrote in one go (and that I enjoyed writting). The worst comes when I have deadlines...it's not about letting go. It's about letting go FAST.
This exactly captures my problem. I am a crazy overwriter. Knowing what and where to kill your darlings is my issue. I want to edit down, but struggle to convince myself that the stripped down version has enough creative heft and momentum. And once/if I find the story or my own writing uninspired, I abandon or just bin the story altogether. Then I repeat the same madness all over again.
I’m writing middle grade fantasy fiction so I feel my final draft should err on the side of underwriting, but balancing that out with relevant world building. I lose focus and my attention wanders easily when I read overwriting. I’m slogging through a middle grade fantasy that had one action scene take me 10+ minutes to read and it was way too descriptive that I almost stopped caring for the characters 😩! Also, I feel horrible for saying I don’t have the patience for Pride & Prejudice!
Thank you for all your videos! They are actually helpful! And entertaining as well. The examples and your analysis and tips show the hard work you put in! Hope it helps your writing to develop further as well as our's :P
I'm definitely something of an overwriter, but it's usually not a big problem. My current WIP is meant to harken to the noir genre, though, so I've been consciously trying to keep a more hardboiled and crisp style than I'm used to.
Usually I start by underwriting basically putting Concepts and ideas characters down quickly just to get the thoughts put on the page. Afterwards, I go back and fill it with everything I've got. And after that, I begin to prune away what doesn't matter into a coherent story.
Great advice as always! Thanks for keeping up with the videos. Your advice of taking time off from the drafts always helps a lot to see what can be improved. It would be great if you gave advice on how to create better character voice, believable plot twists that are not predictable and writing mystery or tense scenes. Also I would love for you to make a video like the one you did of Harry Potter and J.K. Rowling but about Stephen King. PS: Sorry for hidding the letter :P
You must have genuinely put a great effort in such a video! I think you are underrated as you are the best one that makes videos about writing! Keep Going :D
Cannot even describe how much I enjoyed your three scenes. Nothing makes you get it like examples, right? Wonderfully well done n_n Now I'm excited to go back into my unfinished worlds brandishing this delightful knowledge. Thank you :D
I was taught to "choose a side of the road" meaning if your comfortable underwriting underwrite if you overwrite .. overwrite...I am an overwriter so the rule for me is "shorten tighten and intensify"...so I begin were I need to sometimes "no exposition" and we're off to the races..go and get it alllll out of your system... then "push-in" were you need to shorten what's boring and unnecessary and intensify... sometimes that's details sometimes it's the subplot twist that's gonna kick you in the teeth my nasty trick is everything is repeated in threes subplot twist that influences story context stated twice🤭🤭🤭 once mentioned is to fast and the reader misses it and feels dirty tricked and most people who get to read my stuff love the creative details and rhythm 🤷they like the lengthy detail 🤷
I was told I rushed the end of a short story, a section that took me literal months to untangle. I promise, I hadn't rushed. I was just exhausted but the continuity problems. When I returned to it after the constructive criticism, the section became bloated, like a puffer fish defending itself from attack... I'm doing it again. I'm overwriting. Make it stop!
Hello, thank you very much for this instructive video. The examples you brought were very demonstrative to me. To answer your question at the end, I am an overwriter, way too much, and I realise it already when I am on my first draft. I tell myself that I am going to fix it at the editing phase. What I am going to focus on during this phase is my ability to balance between telling what the reader needs to know, and in the meantime give him/her all the space needed to picture the scene in its several aspect. I strongly believe that the most appealing aspect of reading is the extended field of imagination at the reader's feet. And I get myself bored when I read my endless showing bad habit flooding down paragraphs after paragraphs. Best regards.
I'm an overwriter right now because I've created a goal on Reedsy to write 7,000 words maximum. I don't know if it's an excuse, but the writing quality is a bit rusty. I've gotten up to chapter 3 of my book now, and I'm thinking about abandoning the piece of writing. What do you think would be better for your productivity in terms of writing: breaking the goal into smaller, more achievable goals or continuing to aim high and not worrying about results?
In general, it can be helpful to finish projects so you have a big-picture view of the story and your own strengths and weaknesses as a writer, although that's of course easier said than done! If it's any consolation, it's always easier to start projects than to finish them, and it's completely normal to lose motivation after the initial spark of the story has faded. For me personally, breaking the goal into smaller goals is better for my productivity because it keeps my morale high. However, I think the latter approach could work for other writers or for me at a different time in my life. It all depends on how you're feeling about the project in that moment, and it might be worth trying each approach separately to see what works best for you (e.g., six months of smaller goals followed by six months of not worrying about results). With the idea of aiming high, I think that shortening the time horizon can spur motivation; that's why programs like NaNoWriMo work so well, since they have a clear light at the end of the tunnel. You could even have something in-between and tell yourself, "I'm going to write 10,000 words this month," and just try to fill that quota without thinking about when you'll finish the whole novel. For 2023, I've set a goal of writing at least four hours per week. That feels more achievable to me right now than reaching a particular word count. Whatever you decide, the important thing is that you keep writing! :)
This has been a struggle for me. I used to overwrite the hell out of my chapters, but my stories were too long and the editing process overwhelmed me - it was difficult to decide what to cut while revising and I sometimes gave up, feeling discouraged. I've intentionally adjusted my process on my most recent stories, and so while I'm likely being too deliberate with my writing now (which is slowing my first drafts down and resulting in much shorter chapters), I find it easier to refine my stories later.
the writer who i think writes the exact right amount is sharon kay penman. In the sunne in splendor, I dont have to "try" to read it all. I forget I'm reading a book and the words disappear. It's like i'm watching it
I actually think most elaborate, purple prose is good. Shakespeare and Victor Hugo are purple prose, so are many of the greats. Writers say it's bad as an excuse because they cannot write beautifully.
I would posit that "purple prose" has its place. It can work really well for the feeling you intend, BUT only if it still flows as it's been written and presented. That's difficult. When it doesn't flow really well, it reads as clunky exposition and tells far more than it shows. Elaborate words with multiple syllables can bog most readers down, and let's be honest, with the advent of "smart technology" people are losing their edge in the intelligence game. We're in a world that rewards a lack of attention span as if it's a virtue, and damns anyone with the focus to spend longer than a few seconds on nearly any subject. Allen Watts once pointed out (I believe back in the 50's or maybe 60's) that "We're in such a hurry to get things finished, that we finish things that weren't worth doing, because they were done so fast." I don't think society in general is improving on that observation. On the (very slightly) other hand, one should also relax a bit. You don't have to write an important book every time you put pen to paper (or finger to keyboard). Stephen King has written a veritable mountain of less than inspiring stories... from demonic cars to the stories witnessed by a cat. Those weren't "important" in any stretch of the word. Only fun to read through. Maybe, then, complicated scenarios, full of intricately developed scenery and immersive descriptions and all the trimmings of fantastical settings and beauty might be great, but it's a niche market. Understanding that going in, then a writer could budget the time for a "labor of love" purely for the sake of crafting the work, rather than an interest in getting the fullest returns for his/her time. ;o)
There's a lot more terrible purple prose written by hacks than great purple prose written by Shakespeare. If you're Henry James, then go for it, but you're probably not.
Shakespeare isn't even prose -- I'd push back against the notion that his writing could be defined as "purple prose" (even dropping that technicality) because the better stuff of his is practically defined by it's masterful -- wholeness. There's no excess slapped in there just to sound pretty or show off his chops (again, in his better works). The medium he's working in provides enough constraint to keep him from that. That being said, while I can't speak to Hugo there definitely are writers who dip into purple prose masterfully. Being honest, they tend to be my favorite! So I don't disagree with the premise of your comment -- personally I read primarily for the language, rather than the plot or character, so I love well executed "purple prose."
There is no Shakespearean prose. As for his writing style, it changes drastically during his career, but I don't really agree it can ever be called purple. Lurid and tacky, sometimes. Knotty and overly complicated, at times. Stunning in its simplicity and concision, often. Ornate and finely wrought, often. But none of that is the same as purple. The greatest purple prose I can think of is Mervyn Peake in his first two Gormenghast books. It's the apotheosis of purple!
Lol. I have only written rough drafts so far of my series and in it I think I have just as much underwritten moments and overwritten. It’s kind of mind boggling for me that I can write so bad that I jump back and forth from both sides Edit: I literally have one chapter that is 6 pages long and one that is 30. This is why they are rough drafts XD
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Hi there, viewers! An adapted text version of this video is now available on Medium: quotidianwriter.medium.com/writing-tips-for-fixing-overwritten-and-underwritten-prose-d7d735da7eda
I'm a severe underwriter, but it's more intentional than not. I've always had issues with holding passion for one story at a time and always got sidetracked when writing first drafts, so nowadays I solely focus on word count for that first draft and getting the story on the page. Then, when rewriting comes around, even though it takes much longer, it feels less daunting and I can have more fun with it. I think it was Hemingway who said "The only kind of writing is rewriting."
Dude, I've got like 37 different Google docks files saved, each is a different story. I pick whichever one I'm in the mood for and they are all progressing together. I'm the type to dive in the dark (didn't plot a single thing 💀) so I'm testing to see which one will stick.
Me too, being an underwriter of the first draft in most scenes. For me, one of the many reasons is that I learned from movie scripts, where it's just dialog and minimal setting and action details. But also because I come from a background of (non-computer) game design, and much of the plot is assembled like a puzzle, where the feeling and dynamics are where I start from, and only add the mechanics, relationships and details later. And also because I'm an impatient reader, and want my story moving along to its essential components.
@@tsu2155 and I thought I was the only one with this problem. I kinda dropped the whole thing some Years ago believing I get distracted too easily or simply not cut out for writing. I have strange problem for stumping around 15-16 pages for whatever I write. Then it's complete blank.
Me 2
I am the posterboy for underwriting. I could easily have pared down that first Fiona/Hector example. Fortunately, the other examples really clarified how I can fix it.
WHAT? *YOU* DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT'S IN THE LETTER? You're killing me right now.
Same tbh
Me, too. I really want to know now. But that's the point, isn't it? To hook the reader into wanting more.
I thought it was gonna be that Hector had a secret child, and that’s why the main character brought up the time he insulted her mother, since this is an even greater insult (cheating on the mom)
I'm an underwriter, and I like reading books that lean that way as well.
People give George R.R. Martin a lot of crap for his long winded descriptions, but he can be impressively economical with words when he wants to be:
"Jaime scrambled to his feet. "My lady. I had not thought to see you again so soon." Gods be good, she looks ten years older than when I saw her last. And what's happened to her face? "That bandage ... you've been wounded ..."
"A bite." She touched the hilt of her sword, the sword that he had given her. Oathkeeper. "My lord, you gave me a quest."
"The girl. Have you found her?"
"I have," said Brienne, Maid of Tarth. "Where is she?"
"A day's ride. I can take you to her, ser ... but you will need to come alone. Elsewise, the Hound will kill her."" - A Dance with Dragons
Me too, and I also prefer underwriting in my books. For me, one of the many reasons is that I learned from movie scripts, where it's just dialog and minimal setting and action details. But also because I come from a background of (non-computer) game design, and much of the plot is assembled like a puzzle, where the feeling and dynamics are where I start from, and only add the mechanics, relationships and details later. And also because I'm an impatient reader, and want my story moving along to its essential components.
I am an underwriter. When I heard the overwrite lone, it sounded fine to me. Too much detail is much better than too little detail according to me.
I honestly agree with you - I thought the "over-written" version sounded pretty good. It needed 2 or 3 edits to the sentences that described a character's motions in melodramatic body movements & cliches, but other than that, it'd be considered a better 1st draft
Who says "according to me"? 🤣
I found this very inspiring. Now I'm definitely in the mood for writing... I probably shouldn't have watched it with my morning coffee right before I leave for work.
I simply overwrite to understand the scene and story, and then I condense the overwritten plot elements to a digestible and enjoyable medium. I enjoyed this greatly!
I kinda use the same tactic. Just get all the shit down and condense it.
Mister Pete knew I wasn’t the only one.
I am a very VERY big underwriter, and honestly, even that example felt good written for me. I do have a habit of getting the reader completely stuck in a character's thoughts sometimes, but I'm yet to learn how to write, because I genuinely enjoy it! This video was very insightful, Thank you.
I'm an over writer, I think I like to tell in different ways how a character is feeling but it can come as redundant, I also get really immersed in descriptions to the point that I give examples or comparisons to let clear how is the thing/ feeling I'm describing but again, sometimes is just too much lol
hi somnie
When it comes to setting descriptions, I'm a chronic underwriter. My brain naturally focuses on action and dialogue over description. The best technique I've found to fix it is in editing.
I get to a description I need to expand and find an ambience track for a similar location. There are tons out there for every location, thanks to tabletop roleplaying becoming so popular. Then I sit back, close my eyes to let the ambience build the scene in my mind and add the new elements to the (bare bones) description that's already there.
You're the only RUclipsr I bothered to press the bell icon for. Thank you for all this.
These videos are so astoundingly good! I'm not much of a comment writer, but I just wanted to take the time to thank you for these. The lessons, the editing, commentary, production value, etc. are all golden. You deserve so many more thousands of views and subscribers. I truly believe you'll get there some day with this kind of quality. Thank you :)
I really appreciate you taking the time to comment! These videos are so fun to make, and knowing I'm helping other writers is the cherry on top.
@@QuotidianWriter Firstly , I was disappointed when you said this video will focus on " Cupcakes and not the whole bakery " . I'm likely to be guilty of *BOTH* underwriting of scenery and of plot 😓. I understand that you've got only a certain amount of finite time to make your videos & with more topics to cover in them , you risk the chance that *NOBODY* will watch any of your videos { if they're too long } . I'm afraid { so to speak 😳 } of when starting my story { of } plagiarizing the style of the other writers when you have shown me those paragraphs 😕 . If we talking about cupcakes { for real } I don't like frosting at all . I'm not much of a reader either & don't like thick heavy wording of narrative and scenes. A story rich in character status and diversity , I love 🥰📖 though. The last reading in this video i found perfect 💯%. 👨⚖️🇦🇺🇳🇴 ▶️👍
That camera analogy is brilliant!
Omg thank you so so much for this. I know this is one of your older videos but I am SUCH an overwriter. I was trying for ages to find advice on how to fix this, and I didnt even know the term overwriter existed until now. Again, thank you!!
Thank you so much for watching and for your kind words! I'm so glad to hear that the advice has helped you. Keep writing! :)
I'm currently writing a story i had a hard time figuring out what i wantes to do with, just that it was there and i wanted to write it. The biggest solution i've found, underwrite. Start at the bare zero. Know what that start, middle, and end would be, and then figure out how to get to and from each part of the story. I end up making bulletpoints of the scenes my mind comes up with and then start writing from there. Write single or a couple sentences for each part and keep writing parts of that scene until all the beats of the scene has been hit, and move on to the next until that first draft is done. Take a break. Then come back and expand on each scene all the way through til it meets a certain amount of words or it has a vague picture in the mind. I do that for a whole draft, finish it, then i come back after my mind has sat and stewed with it for awhile. I'll then use that old draft and completely re-write EVERYTHING from the prior draft. I'd use each sentence and pair of sentences as a guide, and expand on specifically that section. I'd go through and write my entire draft doing that, putting in the vaguest notion of what the dialogue would be. When done with that, the actual events would be done, and i'll go in and fill in the characters personalities and dialogue more. Fill in how the villain and hero work.
Basically i write like a painting or an essay. Start with nothing and fill it in til i'm happy. But i'll go backvand do more cleaning up. polishing dialogue. Thoughts. Tweaking scenes. It's a very hack-away method i suppose but i think it works for me. I have a dozen or more notes about each character and other aspects of the characters lives and stories as seperate notes and documents. Even if it isn't all used.
Is it possible to be both?🤣
In terms of depicting a characters emotions, I think I could be leaning more toward over-writing, yet in terms of depicting the environment, I am definitely more prone to under-writing🤣
Anyway, this was a very interesting video that brought on an "Aha!" moment - so thank you for that!🙏😊
Ahhh! I suck at describing settings soo bad! Can't wait to fix all that up during revising 😅 ... So underwriter for sure.
Thanks again Diane, some good stuff in there. After I'd watched, like, 30 seconds, I suddenly got inspired to write an example. Tell me how I did if you like!
Overwriting: If you'll be driving along SH2 from Masterton, heading north, you might experience a much-stated phenomenon. You'll have played car-cricket for a while, considered stopping at the Mount Bruce Wildlife Sanctuary and decided you'd better keep heading on for now. You'll have gotten hungry, (What? You only just had lunch!) and thirsty, and then argued about what music to play in the car before getting annoyed and having to turn the ruddy thing off, (Great! Now neither of us gets what we want!) Silence. You'll be looking at the beautiful scenery. Pastures, trees, streams, rivers, farms - very rustic. Then you'll start to nod off. You'll have felt the car slow down and notice your dad has put the indicator on. "Are we at the turn-off already?" "Yup," he'll have replied. "Hmm. And I didn't even notice us driving through Eketahuna! Rats. We missed Retro-Republic!"
Normal: If you're going to be driving north from Masterton, you may be hoping to stop briefly at that second-hand clothing shop in Eketahuna. Keep your eyes peeled - that town just appears out of the countryside, and you'll be through it in a flash."
Underwriting: Eketahuna? Blink and you'll miss it!
P.s. from your descriptions of how overwriters may feel upon receiving you're-overwriting feedback, I immediately felt defensive! I guess my weakness is much more on the overwriting side of things...
I'm a chronic overwriter, so I've been trying to take steps into cutting back on prose 😂 recently I did a month-long challenge where every day I filled out a writing prompt in only and exactly 100 words. It was insanely difficult!!
At first, I thought I was an underwriter. But, as I’m writing my draft as of now, I think I might be both honestly. I underwrite the description of the places my characters are, but just enough so readers would know where they are; and I overwrite when I’m writing the character’s thoughts and emotion, or internal monologue or basically that had to do with the characters.
So, I underwrite descriptions; I overwrite emotions.
But, in honestly, reading a novel, it’s not about the story, but the characters. I think I read a tip somewhere: Simple story, complex character. So, if you have a compelling and well-developed character, then they could and will carry a bad story. If the characters bad, and the story’s bad, then you can see the readers putting down the book.
Underwriter here. I actually had a scene where there should have been a lot more dialogue, but, well... here's what I did...
Yoshi looked up, but unsure what to say, she looked back down at the files. After some time of inane bantering with an extremely patient Yuna, she looked towards the Space Master.
You mean insane?
@@kukithegood
Even if it was, even insane people won't refer to their own actions as insane.
This was timely as I just finished underwriting a very important part of a story I'm currently developing. I had a feeling I was underwriting the scene but I didn't want to force in too much detail. Listening to this has given me a few ideas on how I might add the proper amount of frosting so to speak. I may come back to this one. Thanks.
Great video as usual. For me, the Fever series by Karen Marie Moning is the perfect example of overwriting. A third of each book is endless internal monologing. I always feel like I'm reading the first draft when I read her books. I tend to underwrite in most situations myself.
I don't know why but I felt reading game of thrones there was some overwriting.... Maybe that's just my underwriter self not loving the details of martins writing 😂
I decided to take today to look through some writing videos and gather some materials to help my story going forwards. I think you might be the only person who provided examples and not just advice with no context. Thanks so much for the help!
A very well thought out video explaining all the things that you need to know man this is a good video.
The character voices for Fiona and Hector have given me life on this gray morning.
Really helpful vid. I think finding *your* balance between over/underwriting is practically the skeleton key to storytelling and style. Which is why it's a constant battle :P
I think you could overwrite and underwrite for artistic expression. But but not in every paragraph! Maybe when someone, might be under stress and not thinking clearly or when they're angry, shocked or scared.
@@lorrismalls4736 Yes, you can def underwrite certain characters vs others for characterization, too. Like, if you have a character whose mind is always wandering (think: Mrs Dalloway by Virginia Wolfe) then you'd write lots of sensory detail & thoughts about the past
After watching this video I’ve learned that I’m an over writer most of the time. I want to paint the whole picture out for my reading when I should give them the brush a little more, let them put the lines together a little more.
I need to focus like the camera example. A picture looks better when the focus is only on the object you what their eyes to look at first. Everything else would just crowd the picture and their focus won’t be on what’s really important.
Love this example. When writing and editing I’ll think of a camera when questioning myself.
Thank you!
my way of writing is first underwriting, more so writing what’s in my head so i won’t forget. and then going back to flesh it out if it’s needed
I really like the way you use metaphors frequently to illustrate your points, like the one about the cupcakes. That's an extended metaphor if I'm not mistaken, in other words it's developed throughout the video. I love using metaphors and symbolism in my writing. In one of my short stories which is about 5000 words I have about 8 symbolic references in it.
What I've decided to do with my current novel is have two different versions. One where I can write as much as I like, the other one for publication, much more concise. This way I am more likely to make the necessary edits for publication, knowing I have a version for myself -and friends if I want to share -that is the full length, extended version. So I let myself write to my heart's content, keep a copy of that, then copy and paste my work to a blank document for editing.
I think this is a great approach! I've done the same with short stories. For me, it's hard not to feel like the "extended cut" is always the better version, haha!
🎉 congratulations on making the comprehensive Kodak camera details,😮it really unfolded all my questions and curiosity if a will be a good prose writer this will only be because of urs kindling knowledge provided in the video in a lovely voice thanks a lot
Good video, I was thinking that in the balanced version she doesn't have to say anything after slapping the letter on his desk. It's obvious it's a letter, it's obvious she is angry, and his reaction could explain he intentionally never showed it to her.
Steven King; do much frosting you can't even fund the cupcake underneath. He wrote 7 pages for a kid to take 1 step and twist the door knob to room 237. I only ever finished one of his books although my wife bought them all and I tried several.
You had me at cupcake!😜
What an ingenious device to help writers distinguish between what they desire, versus what is necessary! Usually, when I see this topic tackled it feels like one is suffering through a Latin grammar class. It is example after example of technically correct writing and nothing more. But your videos are so beautifully conceived and executed, Diane! They are deeply engaging on both intellectual and emotional levels. Your gift for laying bare the problems we writers are having and for offering applicable, engaging solutions is top-notch. Thank you for making this, and all of your other videos. As a massive overwriter, I will be referring to this video over and over again.
A wonderful video!
You have to have a lot of patience writing a book. I'd rather be a chef preparing Fugu some days! Lol. Even when you're naturally good at storytelling, it's still going to take skill to execute everything you say. I wish everyone the best on their endeavors. It's not easy. I could just picture that tasty cupcake with the right amount of lemon frosting. So I clicked subscribe!!!
This is excellent advice. I always appreciate your videos.
Your underwritten example of the Fiona and Hector scene felt familiar. My first drafts seem like that, often containing a lack of sensory details.
Yet, as you also acknowledge, it's too simplistic to label our own writing styles as "underwritten" or "overwritten". Most of us do a little of both, whilst perhaps having tendencies in one direction or the other.
Thank you for the tips, which are definitely helpful. 😃👍💖💝
I have trouble with underwriting most of the time. When I studied journalism in college I was taught to write with as few words as possible. That was over 25 years ago, and now that I'm writing fiction, it feels like I'm constantly underwriting. Thank you for the helpful video.
Your writing is so good! I'd want to read the book the excerpts (the model ones) are from, if there was one. Thanks for the video!
Just discovered your channel yesterday. And Im now binging your videos. Your voice is really so smooth and clear, I feel like im floating.
Thanks for this! Your channel is very, very useful
I prefer the cake with too much frosting, both literally and figuratively. :D Also, I'm an overwriter. And I like to read books with nice and detailed descriptions, as long as they're not of totally pointless or meaningless things. Like, exactly what type of flowers are growing on the plain the heroes are just passing by... (I'm looking at you Tolkien!)
When I write, I know I'm underwriting because I don't know what to put into the scene yet, but later I fix it.
As an underwriter I really find this helpful. Thank you.
I am heartened to have found you. Your competency in producing good teaching and good teaching videos is extraordinary. Thank you for your buoyancy of delivery. For the help you are giving me. Kudos!!
I've been trying to write a book for some time. I gotta thank you for all the information ur channel gave me, and i think i became slightly better at writing 'cause of ur indirect help. Ur channel is one of the few that offers this kind of help and insight, i really appreciatte what you are doing, keep it up!
Greetings from Argentina.
Thank you, Diane. As always, presenting interesting tips. I overwrite, specially in messenger. For fiction writing I never know of how much frosting there is, until I review the whole chapter, close to a month after I'm done with that particular chapter.
i love eragon lol. 10/10 fav book series.
i love your videos. can you do a "what you can learn from eragon" doesn't have to be the first book
XD the shade thrown at Eragon!! lmao, i love those books even after all this time. they're not perfect at all but i always loved the story. 😊
They deserve some love! They inspired a whole generation of readers and writers. :)
I think I'm initially likely to overwrite, as a means of clarifying in my own mind what I want to say, and then trim.
Possibly this marks me out as a rookie!
Thanks for this, Diane! I have a history of underwriting, but I found value in the latter advice, too.
On the one hand, I like no frosting.
Up my arm, across my chest, and down again, placed upon the other hand resides a highly specialized cupcake with frosting akin to my simplest descriptions of the finest details pertaining to inconsequential elements within any given span of text are as a doctoral dissertation competing to solidify my complex philosophical point of reference, which persists in its elaboration even well after my fiftieth reduction of the carefully crafted proposal.
I think this one is my favorite video on your channel. The different examples for the same scene make it so clear. Thanks!
I needed this! I'm a huge underwriter. You're the best!
I had written two own character fictions on wattpad and got some good feedbacks for my first work story about tramatized man who was blamed by his father for being gay. Most of the readers like that man but I got some feedbacks that point my writing is full of monologues and Characterization. I wrote many thoughts of character and every sensory details as I've learned to write with sensory details in some lecture.I thought what wrong with my work when that feedback told me ,"your writing is good but your story is boring as you push many thoughts and movements,and you forgot the fluency of dialogues."
Now , I understand that all ofmy problems is overwritting! Thanks, I will try my best.
I'm a natural over-writer who piles details into run-on sentences. I found that pretending to write either hard-boiled or like Ernest Hemingway gets me a nice balance because it tames my dragons. I learned this trick in a pre-Covid IRL writing group, so can't take credit for it, but it works for me. Your mileage may vary.
Ooh, that sounds like an excellent strategy!
Thank you. I write nonfiction, but I think you've shared some principles that will help me. I'm in the process of re-wrting my third book. This video will be playing in the back of my mind as I work.
I wasn't sure if I was underwriting at the current stage I'm in, but I realize underwriting is essencial in first drafts.
I've killed way too much time trying to perfect certain scenes when I haven't even finished laying out the second half of the story, which would likely lead me to edit these "perfect" scenes yet again.
You just did it u told me where my stories lack
I’m an overwriter so this was definitely helpful 🙈🙈
Don't know about the rest of y'all but I love the over written one beat
I just want to thank you, your videos help me out tremendously. you give me something to think about every time I watch a videos. and helpful hints on how to fix your writing without sounding condescending your videos are chalked full- of helpful information.
I am definitely an Overwriter: I drift into the purple prose territory and I struggle with grammar. there are so many video of what not to do as a writer you forget the reason why you love writing in the first place. "Write without fear, edit without Mercy" is one of my favorite quotes.
I have always believed that everyone has a story to tell and that, their audience is out there somewhere.
I know I'm an underwriter because the underwritten version sounded okay to me. I do agree that the balanced version sounds even better
Thank you for making this video and for putting it up on Medium! I’m looking to revise the drafts of my stories, and this is the perfect video that is secretly teaching writers that 1. first drafts are sht, 2. revision is key.
I like a moderate amount of frosting, but I like the light, whipped cream frosting. Simple and light language is far more effective to be than flowery and dense words.
Literally editing is so hard for me...how did she say it? "Emotionally attached"
That's exactly how I feel towards almost everything that's fresh in the paper, that I wrote in one go (and that I enjoyed writting).
The worst comes when I have deadlines...it's not about letting go. It's about letting go FAST.
This exactly captures my problem. I am a crazy overwriter. Knowing what and where to kill your darlings is my issue.
I want to edit down, but struggle to convince myself that the stripped down version has enough creative heft and momentum. And once/if I find the story or my own writing uninspired, I abandon or just bin the story altogether.
Then I repeat the same madness all over again.
I’m writing middle grade fantasy fiction so I feel my final draft should err on the side of underwriting, but balancing that out with relevant world building. I lose focus and my attention wanders easily when I read overwriting. I’m slogging through a middle grade fantasy that had one action scene take me 10+ minutes to read and it was way too descriptive that I almost stopped caring for the characters 😩! Also, I feel horrible for saying I don’t have the patience for Pride & Prejudice!
Damn, this is a good one. Taking notes.
Thank you for all your videos! They are actually helpful! And entertaining as well.
The examples and your analysis and tips show the hard work you put in! Hope it helps your writing to develop further as well as our's :P
Ahhh, thank you! This video convinced me to hit subscribe. 😄🎉 I learned that I am an underwriter for sure! So helpful 💗💗
I'm definitely something of an overwriter, but it's usually not a big problem. My current WIP is meant to harken to the noir genre, though, so I've been consciously trying to keep a more hardboiled and crisp style than I'm used to.
Not gonna lie, these overwritten cupcakes look delicious :D
Great video, keep it up :)
A great video and great illustrations of the problems. Thank you for the clarity.
These videos are some of the best and most helpful I have come across. Great style and effort put into the production. Keep up the good work!!
Usually I start by underwriting basically putting Concepts and ideas characters down quickly just to get the thoughts put on the page. Afterwards, I go back and fill it with everything I've got. And after that, I begin to prune away what doesn't matter into a coherent story.
Great advice as always! Thanks for keeping up with the videos. Your advice of taking time off from the drafts always helps a lot to see what can be improved.
It would be great if you gave advice on how to create better character voice, believable plot twists that are not predictable and writing mystery or tense scenes. Also I would love for you to make a video like the one you did of Harry Potter and J.K. Rowling but about Stephen King.
PS: Sorry for hidding the letter :P
I would love to make videos on all those topics! Your PS made me laugh!
Just a quick thank you for all of your videos!
You must have genuinely put a great effort in such a video! I think you are underrated as you are the best one that makes videos about writing! Keep Going :D
Cannot even describe how much I enjoyed your three scenes. Nothing makes you get it like examples, right? Wonderfully well done n_n Now I'm excited to go back into my unfinished worlds brandishing this delightful knowledge. Thank you :D
I was taught to "choose a side of the road" meaning if your comfortable underwriting underwrite if you overwrite .. overwrite...I am an overwriter so the rule for me is "shorten tighten and intensify"...so I begin were I need to sometimes "no exposition" and we're off to the races..go and get it alllll out of your system... then "push-in" were you need to shorten what's boring and unnecessary and intensify... sometimes that's details sometimes it's the subplot twist that's gonna kick you in the teeth my nasty trick is everything is repeated in threes subplot twist that influences story context stated twice🤭🤭🤭 once mentioned is to fast and the reader misses it and feels dirty tricked and most people who get to read my stuff love the creative details and rhythm 🤷they like the lengthy detail 🤷
I was told I rushed the end of a short story, a section that took me literal months to untangle. I promise, I hadn't rushed. I was just exhausted but the continuity problems.
When I returned to it after the constructive criticism, the section became bloated, like a puffer fish defending itself from attack... I'm doing it again. I'm overwriting. Make it stop!
Your videos have been so inspiring for me in writing my novel! Keep them up!
Thank you so much for this video! I now know why I sometimes feel my writing is too dry. I never knew it was because I am underwriting.
Just the help I needed! The video is great!
Helpful as always! This video came at the perfect time for me.
Hello, thank you very much for this instructive video. The examples you brought were very demonstrative to me.
To answer your question at the end, I am an overwriter, way too much, and I realise it already when I am on my first draft.
I tell myself that I am going to fix it at the editing phase. What I am going to focus on during this phase is my ability to balance between telling what the reader needs to know, and in the meantime give him/her all the space needed to picture the scene in its several aspect.
I strongly believe that the most appealing aspect of reading is the extended field of imagination at the reader's feet. And I get myself bored when I read my endless showing bad habit flooding down paragraphs after paragraphs.
Best regards.
Thank you so much Diane, these are so practical and insightful. Very generous of you to share your wisdom and with such detail and clarity!
I like Crave cupcakes level of frosting.
Thank you!
I definitely lean more towards overwriting but I try my best to keep it balanced. Your video helped a lot, thank you
Great video as always.
This is really great content . I've watched all your videos and craving for more. Thank you so much for this
Thank you for the effort and quality put on these videos. You make my day!
I'm an overwriter right now because I've created a goal on Reedsy to write 7,000 words maximum. I don't know if it's an excuse, but the writing quality is a bit rusty. I've gotten up to chapter 3 of my book now, and I'm thinking about abandoning the piece of writing.
What do you think would be better for your productivity in terms of writing: breaking the goal into smaller, more achievable goals or continuing to aim high and not worrying about results?
In general, it can be helpful to finish projects so you have a big-picture view of the story and your own strengths and weaknesses as a writer, although that's of course easier said than done! If it's any consolation, it's always easier to start projects than to finish them, and it's completely normal to lose motivation after the initial spark of the story has faded. For me personally, breaking the goal into smaller goals is better for my productivity because it keeps my morale high.
However, I think the latter approach could work for other writers or for me at a different time in my life. It all depends on how you're feeling about the project in that moment, and it might be worth trying each approach separately to see what works best for you (e.g., six months of smaller goals followed by six months of not worrying about results). With the idea of aiming high, I think that shortening the time horizon can spur motivation; that's why programs like NaNoWriMo work so well, since they have a clear light at the end of the tunnel.
You could even have something in-between and tell yourself, "I'm going to write 10,000 words this month," and just try to fill that quota without thinking about when you'll finish the whole novel. For 2023, I've set a goal of writing at least four hours per week. That feels more achievable to me right now than reaching a particular word count.
Whatever you decide, the important thing is that you keep writing! :)
@@QuotidianWriter tysm
This has been a struggle for me. I used to overwrite the hell out of my chapters, but my stories were too long and the editing process overwhelmed me - it was difficult to decide what to cut while revising and I sometimes gave up, feeling discouraged. I've intentionally adjusted my process on my most recent stories, and so while I'm likely being too deliberate with my writing now (which is slowing my first drafts down and resulting in much shorter chapters), I find it easier to refine my stories later.
the writer who i think writes the exact right amount is sharon kay penman. In the sunne in splendor, I dont have to "try" to read it all. I forget I'm reading a book and the words disappear. It's like i'm watching it
Really like your analogies. Good info.!
No frosting definitely. I don't like frosting.
you make wonderful videos thank you Diane!
I actually think most elaborate, purple prose is good. Shakespeare and Victor Hugo are purple prose, so are many of the greats. Writers say it's bad as an excuse because they cannot write beautifully.
I would posit that "purple prose" has its place. It can work really well for the feeling you intend, BUT only if it still flows as it's been written and presented. That's difficult.
When it doesn't flow really well, it reads as clunky exposition and tells far more than it shows. Elaborate words with multiple syllables can bog most readers down, and let's be honest, with the advent of "smart technology" people are losing their edge in the intelligence game. We're in a world that rewards a lack of attention span as if it's a virtue, and damns anyone with the focus to spend longer than a few seconds on nearly any subject.
Allen Watts once pointed out (I believe back in the 50's or maybe 60's) that "We're in such a hurry to get things finished, that we finish things that weren't worth doing, because they were done so fast."
I don't think society in general is improving on that observation.
On the (very slightly) other hand, one should also relax a bit. You don't have to write an important book every time you put pen to paper (or finger to keyboard). Stephen King has written a veritable mountain of less than inspiring stories... from demonic cars to the stories witnessed by a cat. Those weren't "important" in any stretch of the word. Only fun to read through.
Maybe, then, complicated scenarios, full of intricately developed scenery and immersive descriptions and all the trimmings of fantastical settings and beauty might be great, but it's a niche market. Understanding that going in, then a writer could budget the time for a "labor of love" purely for the sake of crafting the work, rather than an interest in getting the fullest returns for his/her time. ;o)
There's a lot more terrible purple prose written by hacks than great purple prose written by Shakespeare. If you're Henry James, then go for it, but you're probably not.
Shakespeare isn't even prose -- I'd push back against the notion that his writing could be defined as "purple prose" (even dropping that technicality) because the better stuff of his is practically defined by it's masterful -- wholeness. There's no excess slapped in there just to sound pretty or show off his chops (again, in his better works). The medium he's working in provides enough constraint to keep him from that.
That being said, while I can't speak to Hugo there definitely are writers who dip into purple prose masterfully. Being honest, they tend to be my favorite! So I don't disagree with the premise of your comment -- personally I read primarily for the language, rather than the plot or character, so I love well executed "purple prose."
There is no Shakespearean prose. As for his writing style, it changes drastically during his career, but I don't really agree it can ever be called purple. Lurid and tacky, sometimes. Knotty and overly complicated, at times. Stunning in its simplicity and concision, often. Ornate and finely wrought, often. But none of that is the same as purple.
The greatest purple prose I can think of is Mervyn Peake in his first two Gormenghast books. It's the apotheosis of purple!
I don't think you understand what purple prose is then. It's inherently bad. Poetic prose is good. When it's bad, it's Purple Prose.
Lol. I have only written rough drafts so far of my series and in it I think I have just as much underwritten moments and overwritten. It’s kind of mind boggling for me that I can write so bad that I jump back and forth from both sides
Edit: I literally have one chapter that is 6 pages long and one that is 30. This is why they are rough drafts XD
I’m an overwriter, i always feel like my writing is too underwriting so i add more lol!