TUNER CAR vs SUPER CAR.. 580BHP FERRARI 458 vs 540BHP MAZDA RX7
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
- #ferrari #mazda #dragrace
JOIN THE GASSED GANG TODAY ONLY £5.49 FOR THE NEXT 500 SIGN UPS!
gassedgang.co.uk
#AD ..FOR THE BEST IN BESPOKE MODIFIED AND PERFORMANCE CAR INSURANCE ..CHECK OUT A PLAN!! www.aplan.co.u...
CHECK OUT THE VBOX TOUCH! BEST RRP ANY WHERE ON THE NET!!!
gassedgang.co.uk
FOLLOW RACELOGIC ON INSTAGRAM!
/ racelogic_uk
FOLLOW CHRIS (FERRARI OWNER) ON INSTAGRAM!
/ my_supercar_adventure
FOLLOW LUKE (MAZDA RX7 OWNER) ON INSTAGRAM!
/ hardcorefd
FOLLOW ME ON INSTAGRAM!
/ officially_gassed
JOIN THE GASSED GANG TODAY!!
gassedgang.co.uk
#AD ..FOR BESPOKE, HIGH VALUE, MODIFIED AND PERFORMANCE CAR INSURANCE ..CHECK OUT A PLAN!! www.aplan.co.uk/personal/campaigns/officially-gassed-and-a-plan-specialist-vehicle/
My 1.6 civic would make lite work of both these !
I dont understand why you guys do the whole 1/4 times, 0-60 then do a drag race. Wtf... just go straight go the drag race and kill 3 birds with one stone. Plus that way there's no spoiler alerts as just by them doing the 1/4 alone with vbox you can already tell whose gonna win the drag race. Just do what carwow does
give that ferrari A GTR 34
Please someone get a real driver for that rx7, please;(
Come on you can buy a garage full of RX-7s in that Ferrari price and stills it is doing great😉
I can't help but feel like that RX-7 was not being pushed to it's full potential.
Not gonna break the diff
@@sukajaa6426 then what's the point in the race? You have to try and push it to the limit without breaking. If you have the skill that is.
nah the ferarri was just too fast, the FD can't keep up with it, supercars have the straight line speed pls it's AT so...
@@vegetotownley think about the mechanics who changes gears in the ferrari. From this point on it becomes pretty obvious that the ferrari gonna win but what if its manuel like the FD
@@vegetotownley my man go watch when you think you're fast and watch how many jdms crap on cars like this ferrari
Surprised the rx7 did as well as it did changing gear at 4k 🤣
😂😂😂
He's changing at redline, you can hear the beeps
Don’t, it was pissing me off. Wtf is the ratios in that, it sounds like 7k RPM at max and we all know they should rev higher than that also, it could be a bit less power than 540bhp but I dunno, didn’t seem as fast as it should be, obviously the launch would be a problem no matter what
How to lose a race by keeping your car out of the power range😂
Exactly my thoughts! Could of squeezed another 3000 out of each gear! Didn’t even sound like the boost kicked in properly before he changed
Lol that ferrari driver is everything I would expect a ferrari driver to be 😂
Yep
A sausage? Pause!
haha was thinking the same thing
Yeah a bit of a bell
Grade A plonker
Rx7 desperately needs a driver mod
Its need this driver ruclips.net/video/ChZ_GvP_fkQ/видео.html
Hahaha
As opposed to the car with all the driver helping electronics
He needs to launch it with boost on
Race starts at 8:40
👍👍👍
Mazda is either being driven like a granny, or his claimed bhp is incorrect for sure
The latter
My guess is too big a turbo, built for top end numbers and killed the mid-range (every time he changes he drops out of the power band)....... bet it doesn't start building boost until 4500. I have a genuine 400rwhp FD that pulls consistant mid 11 second 1/4 on an unpreped runway. Plus you can tell it had more in the 0-60 because there was no sign of hopping.
I vote granny shifting.. shouldn't take 4 gears to hit sixty in the rx7 😂 #slightexaggeration #maybenot
@@18t4motion trust me my 1.4 golf can hit near 60 in 2nd gear
those are peak numbers, it's a small displacement turbo car for most of the rpm range it's nowehere near the 500 hp mark while the ferrari it's a bigger na v8 it's making more power and torque everywhere in the rpm range, peak numbers are great for showing off but that rx7 only makes 500 hp for like half a second in every gear while the ferrari is making good power through out all the rpm range
That RX7 has alot more potential but I feel the driver was not as aggressive as he should have been
Yeah I noticed he was short shifting. Had loads of gear left.
@@shiTthebed86 Yh he was almost in 2nd gear off the line lol.
Needs a driver mod
But still...shit was slow af
We all noticed but why push the engine just to prove the 1.3 litter can beat v8-12 just for you tube
Lesson for today: don't shift rotary at 4k rpm when you are racing
Exactly
@@ragnarfpv5434 "Exactly"
Literally *every* single time we see him shift you hear the redline RPM buzzer.
I think he’s confusing “manual shifting” for tiptronic paddle shift haha.
true there's allot of ppl talking bad about the skill of rx7 driver but his skill is miles above the Ferrari paddle "gear changes" driver.....modern cars post good 0-60 times but manual transmission driving experience is unmatched
Seems like the Mazda driver is scared of breaking the car 😮💨
Why is the RX7 driver short shifting each gear and falling dead off boost??? Just seems strange.
That was exactly what I was thinking. Seemed like he was babying it a bit. Rx7 need to be thrash to get the most out of them. rotory engine loves to be pushed not babyed. Come on, I know it’s an old car and everything but if your going get a car like that you have to know what you doing to get the most out of it otherwise it’s just a waste of time
... cuz he prolly doesnt want to kill his car for some "unimportant" race.
Afterall its about fun with these cars, you wont feel the time differences in either car, both are fun but different "genres" so to say.
@@TheGreener121 yeah but rotary engines need to be revved out, so many people don't know how to correctly drive or maintain them
The fact is the rx7 driver doesn't know how to drive... I've seen NA rx7's with better quarter miles than this
maybe its in turbo...that borgwarner s363 cost about 800 quid. so not so expensive and its from 2018 I think...Just change turbo for ´21 model garett turbo and you dont see that rapid boost drop.
Let Affi have a go in that RX7 !
Facts bro
Affi with 800hp i think managed an 11.3? That 458 did an 11.7 with no lc used and 250hp less, affi better be careful in his Nissan lol let alone this rx7 as stock time for a 458 is 11.3 and Ferrari always down play it
Agree there son LOL !
Bruv you beat to it lol….
Bro shifting mad early
There's no way the FD is making anywhere near 500 hp. A 400 hp FD runs low 12s.
My thoughts also.
Low 12s on a prepped surface, hard/ 2 step launch and faster shifting, maybe.
Driver doesn’t know how to launch and was shifting early
Driver mod
@@azzcoopz3270 There was also not even a hint of wheel spin which is strange on a non-prepped surface, assuming he wasn't on warm semi slicks. Power is way down in my opinion.
It would be interesting to see how the RX would go if it had a matching gearbox and harder revs0
to everyone saying rx7 shifted early it didnt, you can hear the shift change beep. That comes on at around red line.
That "540hp" RX7 ran the same 1/4 times as a stock RX7 did back in 1992...
that car needs a better driver
yeah i would like to see dyno sheets for that "540hp" Ive seen 400hp FDs do mid 12s.
That’s what happens when you change gear at 5k rpm
@@CrazyPanda688 I laughed when he launched at off-idle and shifted into second gear about 20 feet out.
@@CrazyPanda688 yea listening to the sound of the rx7 you can tell hes shifting too early every time. Plus hes granny shifting. This race needs to be re-done with a better Rx7 driver
rx7 sounded like it had another 3000rpm to go before gear change .
And as some other people have noticed, shifts happened just when the turbo kicked in. I think the reason the RX7 lost is just bad driving
@@Mr.Engine993 " I think the reason the RX7 lost is just bad driving
I know this is a 10 month old comment, but:
Rx7 lost because it was slow. His driving was fine. Car more than likely doesnt make the power claimed (Whether thats because its not on the right boost setting, or just doesnt make what was claimed), or has a horribly mismatched turbo thats only coming on at high rpm, or some degree of both- The car is slow.
Holy shit that rx7 is slow .... there's no way that's over 500 bhp
Yeah ofc that's the case in every car if the driver shifts at like 3k rpm... The turbo was useless cuz it kicks in like after 3k rpm
No it's the driver he was shite can't drive that car
It’s Bc the shifts aren’t in line with the turbo boost it almost drops off he needs a better trans or a more faster spinning turbo
@@hexxychan1649he is redlining it. You can hear he's redlining it with the beep. Every Rx7 owner knows which beep I'm talking about
Very odd.
I'd imagine the RX7 is a lot lighter than my M140i, yet with only 455bhp my car is over a second quicker for 1/4 mile.
Nevertheless, the RX-7 is the car of the hearts. Who wants a Ferrari ;-). The sound of the Rotary is so much more exciting...
RX7 driver digests like my 75-year-old father, doesn't let the car spin, doesn't start with higher revs, shifts gears too soon
"shifts gears too soon"
You can repeatedly hear the redline buzzer as hes shifting. In manual FDs that comes on at 8000 rpms, which is the redline.
He shifted right when turbo kicked in…
Your comment match your pp so well
@@zSkyzz1 pp?
Yep, just like a f&f movie...tragic.
@@zcnxsz 😂 he meant profile pic not what you think 😂🍆
He have 8k rpm and goes 5k 😅🥲
The rx7 never makes 540hp with 13s 1/4mile. He must be happy if it had 400hp or he short shifted the heck out of it hearing by the engine noise. Just when it comes in boost he shifts 🤣
The guy with the rx7 must have an automatic Toyota Prius as daily...
I’ll take an rx7 over any Ferrari any day every day
Affi needs to send this FD RX7 to the moon. Bet it would do 11.5s in 1/4mile
Just replying to the dork who's spamming comments. Totally agree with op here
That I would agree with, it should be able to breeze an 11.5 with that much HP unless he's got some speakers in the trunk or too many hamburgers under the belt.
That rx7 if it was 540, and rev’d out all the way it would gapppppp the fuck out of a 458. Jamie let the r34 guy get a drive of this RX7 and see this race again. 😂
he change the gear at 4000RPM hahaha on N/A, the boost come over 4000 RPM, what is doing
100% true bro, driver of r34 take the steering wheel
No it wouldn't. The 458 has launch control, traction control and shift much faster. Rx7 is still getting gapped. Also, the 458 owner didn't even use launch control...
Been a better race true but sorry, not gapping
@@amac_ that's because he knows the 458's launch control is terrible, they've destroyed clutches after 2 launches.
@@lukedurow6218 I think you're talking about the 430, with the f1 single clutch gearbox. The 458 has a dual clutch, so launch control isn't a problem. I may be wrong, but I've never heard of a 458 destroying clutches.
I'm a Ferrari fan boy but I would pick the Mazda in this case. That "body kit" is not for my taste.
yep..i hate widebody ferraris....its stupid.... Ferraris are best in their base form...not ruined by rice tuning...ah gosh.
Agree , its a bit over the top just like the owners hair 🥦
It looks like a 6 year old designed it, the spoiler is ugly too in my opinion... but it's a matter of taste, so if he likes it, good for him.
Look at him. It’s not a surprise..
@@user-pk4sd9dd2w 😂
Ferrari is automatic, rx7 is manual... Also despite the 40 hp gap, still feel like the fd wasn't at its full potential.
Luke: Nice car what’s the retail one of those.
Chris: More you can afford a pal, ferrari
Mazda looks and sounds great! Shame it didnt win as it has the potential. I have a 350bhp Subaru and without a problem get low 12s on the 1/4. This Mazda should at least do late 11s low 12s.
None the less Jamie, thank you for the great race once again!
Indeed. My 230hp BMW goes High 12’s, so the rx7 obviously needs a driver mod
Yep....... i have to question the claimed power, i have a genuine 400rwhp RX7 that consistantly pulls high 11's on an unpreped runway........ you can tell when you launch an FD hard as it kinda hops at the back.
@@K2edg yeah he didn't push the car at all and short shifted every time
@@kirstennielsen7218 a 230 bhp BMW would defo NOT be getting high 12s (unless you're talking about the 0-80mph time)
@@davekennedy6315 E36 compact, completely stripped, weights around 1050-1100kg with driver
😂 that RX7 driver should buy an auto, hasn't got a clue how to drive and scared to rev a high revving engine
Worst stick driver ever...
The driver won, not the car.
Auto tranny's you don't need to have skill there.
@@Mazda626gtturbo The Maza is manual
Not even the driver won, playing with paddle shifters is what these shits call manual driving, I get it that you change it manually but it's still nothing close to driving a stick.
at this time, i think the gearbox from Ferrari won xD...
JDM fans when a 30yo Mazda can't beat a Ferrari
Big JDM fan here, love FDs and with all respect but this was not 540BHP......more like a 350 i would say. Also the gear ratio of the FD is very short, might do better on circuit and last but not least the dude suck big time in racing, shift speed and timing and launching was all over the place, or he just love his car so much that he doesn't wanna floor it and go a bit more aggressive with the shift and tyres. Anyway, lovely video as always, thank you
Brooo that race is so unfair. The Ferrari gets aero enhancements, and has 40 horsepower more while the Mazda has no aero enhancements but weighs like 70 kg less. Still a big bruh cause the aero enhancements help you shave SECONDS on the speedup by giving more grip to the rear wheels. And the gears are too short for a drag race on the RX7 that are possibly stock gears.
Not everyone is a driver…respect for him showing up tho 😎🤜🏻💥
but you in a Fd?!!
Very diplomatic way of looking at it. 👍👍
If you're not a driver get out of the car game
They should of use a different driver. We want to see a car race.
RX7 dude was just short shifting 🤦. Didn't bring out it's potential
so true, everytime he shifts he falls out of the power band
@@martinrafaello9797 yep
Rx7 short shifting every gear change and coming off boost
Yea, no boost on start. No boost on every gear. Building boost every gear. Too early on every gear. Slow gear changes.
Overall 2/10
Sounds like boost is kicking in then he’s changing gear straight away
In fairness he would never win, dct makes such a difference
Yep, too big a turbo imho........ Streetport and big turbo means nothing under 4500 and a very narrow power band, i have a genuine 400rwhp FD thats properly set up and it pulls mid 11's all day on an unpreped runway. Fd's are just not that fast 0-60 but they really are if you do a pull from the edge of the power band in third.
@@ayrtonowen2703 not to the degree shown in the video, he would be about a car length ahead at best, not a football stadium. DCT is great technology, its just not THAT good. there are huge issues with the rx7 with how it was driven and the claimed power figures.
The man who's driving that rx 7 needed a manual driver from the Caribbean Islands
300,000$ vs 40,000$. That's pretty good for RX 7
The RX7 does not have 540hp. Stock they can run late 13s , my Trans Am with 375hp would run 13s dead and is heavier. The car RX7 has 380-420 hp most likely or less. 13.1 is still good but manuals with genuine 540hp can run faster.
I wanted the RX7 to win never mind
Driver mod
Awazing awazing videos
Rx7 was held back by long shifts and bogged starts!! Short shifter, revving more each gear and a two step woulda helped a ton!!! But oh man was it gorgeous!! Give me that over the 458 anyday!!
How to chav out a Ferrari 😂
It’s embarrassing to see what’s been done to the Ferrari.
@@MIK23458 Very much so.
The rx7 put up a great fight, wasn’t all that much in it considering the age and difference boxes. Ferrari sounds epic. Good show from both of them .✌🏻
It's kind of funny how the Ferrari looks completely chav while the Mazda looks so elegant.
We live in strange times.
Him in the ferrari seems abit to cocky for me sorry 🤣🤷
As others have noticed, the RX7 seemed to not be driven to its fullest potential... the sound of the revs and lag between shifts gave me the impression that you were not revving high enough specially for a rotary engine that can red line very high, and also not shifting quicker. I believe this race could have been much closer. I would suggest to show the gauges in a small corner of the screen for each car, so we can have better judgement of the driver performance. Thanks for the content!
I guess early shifting and city gear changes wont work for a drag race 😅
A 2001-2003 fd rx7 Bathurst or Spirit r can do it in 4.7 easy and I’ve seen them do 4.4/4.5 when launch, bone stock. Why did this one not do the same? Is it a single vs twin turbo issue? I’m confused
Rx-7 has such a timeless look. I thought the thumbnail was 2 modern cars at first
I’d still prefer to own the RX7 😁
Would have been a different story if it was Dom's RX7 with the 18 speed gearbox.
zonda cinque best car
Imagine if it were a supra tho😭 “what’s the retail on one of those”
"More than you can afford pal"
I was think the exact same lol that blue supra though
Yeah and the drivers look like paul and dom
If the hp are more or less the same, it will comes to gear shifting. No matter how good u are in those tunners, if u go against modern super car that have super advance gear shift that can change in milisecond, there is no way an old tunner with manual gear can win.
"More than you can afford Pal"
Nope I mean it's all entertainment lol drivers are hella laid back blessing us with a free to see run. These engines can't take a full 100% every video without a header blowing or something
That FD did not act like a 500hp car.
That sound from the 458 is just amazing. I have driven one and can concur they are just incredible, for sure there are faster cars but the sound and driving experience the 458 gives you is second to none. GG again Jamie, Gapping the competition with you content lad! Keep it up!
How to half the value of your super car ! Buy a liberty walk kit ! 🤣👌
As much as I cannot stand those kits, that suspension has truly destroyed that car.
@@AB-80X agreed 👌
Homie in the Ferrari said, "I know you got some" when he said OG Gas 😂😂
Driver on Mazda is obviously afraid to push it to the limit. I kinda respect that, just don't go imo if you are not willing to push it as hard as you have to.
How is the RX7 so slow, 540hp and not even as quick over the 1/4 mile as an E46 M3!
Nice content as always :) I'd be great if u could include 100-200 km/h times in your tests, pretty sure that's one of the most interesting stats for most of the people
And probably the most used one in everyday life. Good suggestion
Lmao lets see what happens if you bring the the 800hp r34 vs this 458..send the 458 to gapistan 😂👍
I would love to see that happen :D
AWD vs rear wheel drive,ofc the R34 will win,use your sense
It SHOULD gap it. BUT a stock 458 italia runs 11.2/11.3s, and the infamous "800" hp gtr ran pretty much the same time. Don't get me wrong, the owner drives that r34 to its limit, but in that very video a stock nismo r35 ran a 10.8. Something looks strange to me...
@@amac_ The nee BMW M3 Competition Xdrive could beat that R34
@@stearmaster6.756 exactly, and the M3 weighs like 300 kg more (probably even more than that) and has basically 300 hp less. It doesn't even have a dual clutch but somehow, it runs basically the same time?
I used the bathroom between every shift on the rx7 lmaooo my 93 280 whp h22 accord did 13.4 in a quarter rx7 Def needs a driver mod
All these people that say JDM cars are better, out of curiosity, I've watched several videos where they test different cars against tuned out JDM cars. I still haven't found one where the JDM actually wins lmao. I understand they are nostalgic and beautiful cars, but they can't compete, realistically, against a car worth 10x the price of a JDM fully tuned lmao. Let's not forget things like reliabilty, comfort, looks and the technology inside both cars.
Loved watching the Mazda, and a huge fan of Ferraris, but that monstrosity, seriously, and the driver….. 🤷🏻♂️🤣
RX-7 on each gear change goes slightly out of boost which without doubt is costing time.
Not sure how the fella in the Ferrari can say he didn’t do enough talking 🤣
Awsome car ruined with a body kit.
I’d have the RX7 💯
Give the Rx7 to Affi ( the guy with gtr r34 white one) that man is a launch machine and pushes the car to its limit
It's not surprising that it's faster, considering the technology aspect of it. I think it wouldn't have been as fast if the owner would've had to manually shift it with a proper manual gearbox. Pulling back on a flappy paddle isn't shifting gears. I like both cars, but I always root for my fellow rotary owners.
Rx7 is not 540 bhp !!!
he is 540 but he change the gear at 4000RPM hahaha on N/A, the boost come over 4000 RPM, what is doing
@@amyeseharmonia3840 RX7 isn't N/A
RX-7 FD is the most beautiful car in my opinion.
For the first time I saw this car in the movie The Fast and the Furious (2001).
But fell in love during the passage of the game NFS : Carbon (2006)
Love this car. My dream
Good to know that a old 20-30 year old car is slower than a by far newer more technology advanced with launch control car
The Ferrari sounds great but I am still amazed how they get so much power from that 1.3L engine.
It's not a normal 1,3l piston engine, it's a rotary. These engines work very differently and typically don't need a lot of displacement - but will rev higher.
@@FrontWeisser Yep I remember how much power they produce as my mate had an old RX7 until the tips went.
WOW Jamie, your hard work and effort has paid off for sure !!
Dude in the rx7 was granny shifting and not double clutching like he should
RX7 driver HATES shifting gears lmao. It apparently physically pains him to shift according to his face, and he is missing another like 2.5k rpms. RX7 got done dirty here
I swear I saw my guy Luke in a video on the internet last night 😉🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😎😎😎😎😎
Hope he gave it more effort in the other video
Hahaha....I thought I'd seen Luke somewhere before.
@@tomcoxon3520 hahah he bossed it 🤣🤣🤣🤣 defo would be at No1 on the OG battle leaderboard😎😎😎😎😎😎😎
@@jazk3409 when you know you know 😉
The RX was always going to be lacking due to long gear changes and bogging off the line and not reving out that little 13B ....
Rx7 Changing gear to early he should be ringing it's neck then changing it's a rotary ffs
Bro that RX7 is way more fun and pure
Never wanted an RX-7 to win so badly in my life
Another great OG battle 👌
I think part of the win must be the DCT gearbox in the 458 (even if he's shifting using the paddles) it's just not possible to shift as fast in a manual transmission.
They are evenly matched in power and weight (or so they claim) YES the DCT would put the Ferrari at a slight edge but not to the level shown in the video. This is more of a problem with the rx7 whether that be the driver or the claimed power. We should have seen a much more closer race, id even wager the rex would have won especially in the rolling races.
@@Triicks111 possibly, but you'd need dyno test to confirm. On RUclips people are quick to slag off the driver or the car unfortunately.
The Ferrari shifts were perfect and the engine kept in the power the whole time where as the Mazda bogged down after each gear.
Absolutely loved this race!!!!!! tuner vs exotic reminds me of need for speed carbon but i love both cars and the result makes a lot of sense until we bring a 3 rotor fd or 4 rotor fd.
Manual box vs paddle will give a difference, esp when the manual car has a turbo and you're off the gas when shifting.
"Nice ride. What's the retail on one of those?"
"More than you can afford... 98 Ron."
"Here's a payday loan for the 1/4 mile.... smoke him"
Interesting match up, was really looking forward to this! I just wish it could have been a little closer especially on the roll race. Nevertheless, still two awesome cars. Got to praise Jamie for yet more sick content. 🙌🏼
RX7 driver absolutely clueless
We need a test on a winding road.
The Mazda is designed to take sharp turns, not to drive straightaways.
I had an RX 8 stock. It's a very interesting and balanced car, and a fast car in the corners.straight roads,
out of her element.Вut it was very interesting.
The Rx7 guy was Granny Clutching on 1st gear, almost Sand Bagging. He’s probably a stand-in for the owner of that rx7
Result as expected, the 7 did well considering transmission and less power, also not forgetting the price difference between the 2 cars 👍
He doesn't know how to launch, was never in the right gear on the rolls and was short shifting the hell out of it. Those things redline at 9k, he was shifting probably at 5500
I love RX7s and would love to see a real race like that. I just don’t get the point of this one 😅
Not enough torque in the rx7. Great race though unusual pairing but that’s what makes it exciting. Keep up the gd work Jamie
Funny how the Ferrari driver plays with the gears as if he really controls the car. If it wasn't stuffed with electronics and had a manual transmission, he couldn't drive 10 meters straight. So it's really experienced car driver vs "I just bought a fast car" driver.
Doesn't matter if the rx7 driver is pushing his car or not, the Ferrari is a well setup car even with that crap the owner has added. From what I've gathered, Rx7 cars are better for handling and drifting than straight line speed.
Rx7 did really well tbh look at engine size difference 1.3 rotary is amazing manual vers paddle shift
Supposed 540bhp isnt doing well being in the 13s. Give a real 540hp fd to someone who can drive and you will see 11s....
Sylvain Defranco was about to say same thing
-What's the retail on one of those?
-More than you can afford pal. Ferrari.
The fella that looks like Daniel Craig is a lot cooler than matey that just keeps shouting “COME ONNNNNNN”
Tuner driver: Nice car bro. What’s the retail on one of those?
Ferrari driver: More than you can afford pal Ferrari!
Tuner car Passenger : smoke him!
What a lineup this is. Absolutely unreal.
The LB kit on the Ferrari just takes all the beauty out of it.