What a treasure to have some things from your grandfather! And to be able to use them! One of my favorite tools is a big old screwdriver. It is really nothing special except to me it is a connection to my heritage.
I'm really happy for you that you have access to your Grandfather's tools. I have some from mine and from my father as well. I use them daily at work and it helps me feel closer to the guys who came before me. Well done and beautiful tools.
Well I'm really glad you were able to hang on to some of your family's vintage tools My dad before he passed with a master Machinist but unfortunately due to a family brawl we had to liquidate everything he and whatever he had at the shop where he work they liquidated that I really wish I had some of my father's granted I probably wouldn't know how to use them but
My grandfather, and also my namesake, worked for Pratt and Whitney as a machinist out on Long Island during WW2. Unfortunately, the only relic I have of his time is an old ball peen hammer that I still use. I wish I had spoken to him about his work before he passed.... Thanks for the great videos and for me, the bittersweet memories.
I think it's incredibly cool that you still have, and can still USE your family tools. Sure hope your buddy Mark is training the next generation of tool calibrators, too!
According to the 1945 Taft-Pierce Handbook the 9160 series Box Parallels are square within 0.0005" over 6 inches and all sides parallel to +/- 0.00025. All dimensions are +/- 0.0005" of the listed size.
Thanks for demonstrating this method of checking squareness to a known master reference. I’ve found that my flat ground stones remove light burrs much better and faster with a light coating of WD-40. That stone should have completely removed those high spots.
What a great idea for a business in repairing precision tools. I'm sure its a royal pita, but it quite profitable considering how much professional metrology tools can cost.
I also have sent several indicators to Mark to repair, including my Grandfather's test indicator and a nice little dial indicator that was Grandpa's also and they came back working like new and with the new crystals you could actually read them. These old tools just gum up sitting around for decades and need Mark's TLC to bring them back for another round of decades of use. Get all your sluggish indicators and the ones with the scratched crystals and give them a new life at MR Tool Repair, Mark can fix them if they can be fixed. I had one that was beyond saving and that's fine, not all of them can survive the use and abuse but fortunately both of Grandpa's got resurrected. I had one eBay purchase of a micrometer out of a set that was a dud, the previous owner must have been using it for a C-Clamp or something. I wasn't out all that much money so no tears were spilled and I was able to replace it with another vintage tool of the same model so the set is complete. Love those nice old Lufkin Micrometers, just as good as the Name Brands, you know the usual suspects, while not braking the bank just for the name.
Mark does a lovely job. He fixed a couple for me as well. I would probably get more done but the US postal service makes it crazy expensive from Australia.
Note that no part of this testing shows that anything is square to the base. The measurement of the cylindrical square shows that each side is the same angle to the base (an accurate taper) but that taper might or might not be zero. A prior examination using a different prrocedure shows the cylindrical square has taper within tolerance (close to zero). But the measuring of the block only shows that two sides have very little difference in taper, and the other two sides a little more difference: It says nothing about how square each side is to the base. Adam mentions comparing the block to the cylinder using a light test, which would indicate the squareness of the block (knowing the squareness of the cylinder) , but then suggests the height gauge measure of the block is also testing squareness, when it is actually testing angular symmetry. A pyramid could return an exact result from this measurement.
End for ending the cylindrical square would have proven any taper related issues or not. Given the apparent surface of the cylinder unlikely there is any issues along the length.
That is all correct.... sort of.... A simple test is to measure the taper (measure the diameter of the T-P cyclinder in several places. If the diameter measures within a tenth or less then it can be said to be "square to the base" within that tolerance. I don't remember if Adam measured the taper (if any) of the T-P cylinder in another video or not. However... even if there is a taper then it appears that it is evenly distributed all around and he can say "this tapered cylinder is square to the base." He can also say "this possibly pyramid shaped tunnel block is also square to its base." He can also say that the opposite end of the tunnel block (the end with all the bumps on it) "does not sit on a plane square to the sides." The superiority of using a "squareness checking gage" like the Taft-Pierce and Ames dial indicator is that it allows you to quantify the squareness with real numbers (thousandths or ten-thousandths over 6 inches etc... whatever) whereas looking at a light gap it can even be difficult to compare two readings. If Adam were to measure the diameter in several places (the 'cylindricity') of the cylinder and finds it to fall within 0.0001" TIR overall then his T-P squareness checking gage when set to zero as he demonstrated and it can be said that those points on the cylinder that he measured are within 0.0001" of being directly over each other and square to the base. A pyramid (or cone) will give results that are further "off" either plus or minus.
May be it is enough just to flip the square upside down and repeat the measurements, without readjusting the indicator. If it show zero again, the square has no taper.
@@Hemml There are several ways in which squareness can be demonstrated. But the point is that none of them are shown in this video. The measuring is interesting, but the title and explanation is misleading.
My indicator was $15 on eBay brand new. It’s a mifufoyo brand. It cannot really break on account of the fact it never really worked properly to start with. I will fix it with a hammer one day
Its funny how complicated the simple things of round, flat or square become when searching for solid fabrication accuracy. Whatever decimal anyone goes to, an extra one seems needed or there's too many question marks.
Yes it could be 'conical' but that is easily checked by measuring the diameter near the base and near the point of measurement using a simple micrometer.
@@millzee60 maybe... but that only works if the column is dead square to the base and you can get the indicator tip exactly over the starting "zero position". One of the strengths of this kind of squareness checker is it can be fairly simple. In a pinch you can even set up a regular surface gage or height gage to be a squareness comparator.
@@utidjian understood. But isn't this a precision measuring instrument with a ground base and the radius on the foot is critical to any measurements. Regarding the tip position, I don't think it matters. It's swept over the work piece and the closest point is established. So long as the tip remains within the arc of the base, it can be moved up and down and side to side on the column and retain its geometry.
A TP comparator does not need a reference square. The beauty of the tool is that by turning the part round or over the squareness can be checked. This video suggests that it needs to be set against a reference which it does not. atgni
3:57 The only tenths indicator I have is a very old Hardinge one, similar to this one at the time stamp. Mine has been modified to ge to more travel by altering the replaceable screw end. Mine is a tiny bit sticky, but I have used i a number of times over the years whe I needed or wanted extreme accuracy :) ... If it survives in one piece from the storage unit (where almost all my tools are), I might just send it off for repairs! .. I'm sure it would be well worth it!
adam. with you at 25+ years in machining. how does your level of experience compare with your father and grandfather? that would be really cool because im pretty sure a 3 generation machinist family is really rare. thanks for the tool demonstration. i think it goes well with your channel.
Heck i wouldn't mind maybe collecting some indicators that are damaged. Broken and cant really be fixed. And make a watch or clock from it. Especially the older ones. Make a nice little pocket watch. Or at least make molds of them and make lost wax copys of them to make the watch from. Then make new dial faces that replicate the indicator look. It shouldn't be too difficult to sneak in a second hand in there.maybe this could be a business, i can't be thr only one who loves this look. Maybe mount then to a money clip. Or a tiny chain and a tie clip.or just a tie clip. Make so it can be worn. Even cufflinks. Or a desk clock for the larger ones. Mounted in some fixture.
Just wondering, did the paper behind the glass in the Federals also get changed? Or was that just color saturation of the video making the before shots look deeper?
Is the cross section of the squareness comparator's large ground radius at the base, ground with a radius as well, like a hand wheel? Or like a sideways letter U where there is clearance behind the exact touch point?
In addition to your four points, don't you also need to mic the diameter of the cylindrical square at both ends to rule out any taper? You could also flip it over and check without re-zeroing the indicator.
Dial test indicators and dial indicators are comparative test equipment. They aren't typically used to measure direct dimensions. That said, you could zero them out on a surface plate and then use something like a gauge block to see if the indicator is accurate.
In the place I used to work we used a micrometer dti setting tool, basically the barrel part of a micrometer on a stand. Bring the DTI up to it and then compare what it says on the DTI to what the micrometer says
I’m wondering why the little meter doe not have a mirror backing ring in it. Like the “old” mechanical multimeter. The mirror helps you to lineup you eyesight perfectly to the needle position. You lineup your eyesight so the needle reflection I’d perfectly behind itself, then you take the measurement reading.
Seller of squareness comparator: "Oh, the indicator works juuuuuust fine, Adam, now GIVE ME MY MUN-NEY!!!" I detest liars. MR really does fantastic repairs/restorations. He's quite a treasure.
30 year in business doing a great service.. And still using Hotmail? Set him up with someone to arrange webservice and a proper domain. This is not 1996.
There is no such thing as perfectly square it is impossible, it could be infinitely smaller infinitely large I can't ever be perfect, if you understand then you know
The machine shop is the cradle of civilization.
What a treasure to have some things from your grandfather! And to be able to use them! One of my favorite tools is a big old screwdriver. It is really nothing special except to me it is a connection to my heritage.
I'm really happy for you that you have access to your Grandfather's tools. I have some from mine and from my father as well. I use them daily at work and it helps me feel closer to the guys who came before me. Well done and beautiful tools.
Great tools and how to use them.Thank you,Adam.
Well I'm really glad you were able to hang on to some of your family's vintage tools
My dad before he passed with a master Machinist but unfortunately due to a family brawl we had to liquidate everything he and whatever he had at the shop where he work they liquidated that I really wish I had some of my father's granted I probably wouldn't know how to use them but
thats a sad story and it happens way too often.
My grandfather, and also my namesake, worked for Pratt and Whitney as a machinist out on Long Island during WW2. Unfortunately, the only relic I have of his time is an old ball peen hammer that I still use. I wish I had spoken to him about his work before he passed....
Thanks for the great videos and for me, the bittersweet memories.
These videos are just so relaxing t watch, great way to calm the nerves :)
His voice is a gift.
Honestly, I just love seeing old tools get repaired and put back into service. Golden!
I think it's incredibly cool that you still have, and can still USE your family tools. Sure hope your buddy Mark is training the next generation of tool calibrators, too!
That's super cool that your grandad's name is on those tools I don't have anything from my grandfather's of either side
I love the fact that you still use your grandaddy's tools.
Great video. The different uses you showed was fantastic.
According to the 1945 Taft-Pierce Handbook the 9160 series Box Parallels are square within 0.0005" over 6 inches and all sides parallel to +/- 0.00025. All dimensions are +/- 0.0005" of the listed size.
Good info. I figured the parallel sides had to be less than half a thou tolerance.
Damn, that's a nice gage, not a fixture!
I love seeing Granddad’s tools! So cool you still have some of them.
Mark is great. Fair price, and most importantly fast turnaround.
Thanks for demonstrating this method of checking squareness to a known master reference. I’ve found that my flat ground stones remove light burrs much better and faster with a light coating of WD-40. That stone should have completely removed those high spots.
Great video! Love precision measuring equipment and the techniques that require understanding.
I've used mark a couple times, he's great.
What a great idea for a business in repairing precision tools. I'm sure its a royal pita, but it quite profitable considering how much professional metrology tools can cost.
It's mostly cleaning and relubrication which is simple.
❤ The memories of the tool room ❤.
MR Tool restored a couple of vintage Dial indicators. A Starrett and an Ames. Excellent service to a Canadian Customer.
Would be cool if you could visit Mark one day Adam, and maybe get some footage of his workshop.
I also have sent several indicators to Mark to repair, including my Grandfather's test indicator and a nice little dial indicator that was Grandpa's also and they came back working like new and with the new crystals you could actually read them. These old tools just gum up sitting around for decades and need Mark's TLC to bring them back for another round of decades of use. Get all your sluggish indicators and the ones with the scratched crystals and give them a new life at MR Tool Repair, Mark can fix them if they can be fixed. I had one that was beyond saving and that's fine, not all of them can survive the use and abuse but fortunately both of Grandpa's got resurrected. I had one eBay purchase of a micrometer out of a set that was a dud, the previous owner must have been using it for a C-Clamp or something. I wasn't out all that much money so no tears were spilled and I was able to replace it with another vintage tool of the same model so the set is complete. Love those nice old Lufkin Micrometers, just as good as the Name Brands, you know the usual suspects, while not braking the bank just for the name.
Your giving the people what they want, back to the roots👍👌🇦🇺
Mark does a lovely job. He fixed a couple for me as well. I would probably get more done but the US postal service makes it crazy expensive from Australia.
I have a few of my dad's old tools too. It's nice you can hold on to this.
Note that no part of this testing shows that anything is square to the base. The measurement
of the cylindrical square shows that each side is the same angle to the base (an accurate taper) but that taper might or might not be zero. A prior examination using a different prrocedure shows the cylindrical square has taper within tolerance (close to zero). But the measuring of the block only shows that two sides have very little difference in taper, and the other two sides a little more difference: It says nothing about how square each side is to the base. Adam mentions comparing the block to the cylinder using a light test, which would indicate the squareness of the block (knowing the squareness of the cylinder) , but then suggests the height gauge measure of the block is also testing squareness, when it is actually testing angular symmetry. A pyramid could return an exact result from this measurement.
End for ending the cylindrical square would have proven any taper related issues or not. Given the apparent surface of the cylinder unlikely there is any issues along the length.
Great point! RUclips comments can actually be helpful! thanks!
That is all correct.... sort of.... A simple test is to measure the taper (measure the diameter of the T-P cyclinder in several places. If the diameter measures within a tenth or less then it can be said to be "square to the base" within that tolerance. I don't remember if Adam measured the taper (if any) of the T-P cylinder in another video or not. However... even if there is a taper then it appears that it is evenly distributed all around and he can say "this tapered cylinder is square to the base." He can also say "this possibly pyramid shaped tunnel block is also square to its base." He can also say that the opposite end of the tunnel block (the end with all the bumps on it) "does not sit on a plane square to the sides."
The superiority of using a "squareness checking gage" like the Taft-Pierce and Ames dial indicator is that it allows you to quantify the squareness with real numbers (thousandths or ten-thousandths over 6 inches etc... whatever) whereas looking at a light gap it can even be difficult to compare two readings.
If Adam were to measure the diameter in several places (the 'cylindricity') of the cylinder and finds it to fall within 0.0001" TIR overall then his T-P squareness checking gage when set to zero as he demonstrated and it can be said that those points on the cylinder that he measured are within 0.0001" of being directly over each other and square to the base. A pyramid (or cone) will give results that are further "off" either plus or minus.
May be it is enough just to flip the square upside down and repeat the measurements, without readjusting the indicator. If it show zero again, the square has no taper.
@@Hemml There are several ways in which squareness can be demonstrated. But the point is that none of them are shown in this video. The measuring is interesting, but the title and explanation is misleading.
Thanks for another great video
My indicator was $15 on eBay brand new. It’s a mifufoyo brand. It cannot really break on account of the fact it never really worked properly to start with. I will fix it with a hammer one day
Thanks for this video. I was intrigued when I saw the instagram post.
Glad you got your grandad's instrument repaired.
No se mide se compara! exelente video
Its funny how complicated the simple things of round, flat or square become when searching for solid fabrication accuracy. Whatever decimal anyone goes to, an extra one seems needed or there's too many question marks.
Wow
Outstanding video. Bravo.
With the measurements you showed, couldn't that cylindrical square be conical?
Yeah, he should change the height on two or three measuring points.
Yes it could be 'conical' but that is easily checked by measuring the diameter near the base and near the point of measurement using a simple micrometer.
@@utidjian or just move the test indicator up the column.
@@millzee60 maybe... but that only works if the column is dead square to the base and you can get the indicator tip exactly over the starting "zero position". One of the strengths of this kind of squareness checker is it can be fairly simple. In a pinch you can even set up a regular surface gage or height gage to be a squareness comparator.
@@utidjian understood. But isn't this a precision measuring instrument with a ground base and the radius on the foot is critical to any measurements. Regarding the tip position, I don't think it matters. It's swept over the work piece and the closest point is established. So long as the tip remains within the arc of the base, it can be moved up and down and side to side on the column and retain its geometry.
Thanks for sharing
Looks like Mark did a good job on your left thumb also! :D
The tunnel block is not 7 tenths out of square, it is 3.5 tenths out of square. The difference in readings is double the error.
A TP comparator does not need a reference square. The beauty of the tool is that by turning the part round or over the squareness can be checked. This video suggests that it needs to be set against a reference which it does not. atgni
I think most people know Adam is not known for his wealth of knowledge.
@@cokesucks So who benefits from these videos that are perpetually littered with basic errors?
@@tates11 Adam's wallet.
If the cylindrical square is to be established a consistent element how much does temperature influence the accuracy.
3:57 The only tenths indicator I have is a very old Hardinge one, similar to this one at the time stamp. Mine has been modified to ge to more travel by altering the replaceable screw end.
Mine is a tiny bit sticky, but I have used i a number of times over the years whe I needed or wanted extreme accuracy :) ...
If it survives in one piece from the storage unit (where almost all my tools are), I might just send it off for repairs! .. I'm sure it would be well worth it!
Awesome 😎
adam. with you at 25+ years in machining. how does your level of experience compare with your father and grandfather? that would be really cool because im pretty sure a 3 generation machinist family is really rare. thanks for the tool demonstration. i think it goes well with your channel.
Heck i wouldn't mind maybe collecting some indicators that are damaged. Broken and cant really be fixed. And make a watch or clock from it. Especially the older ones. Make a nice little pocket watch. Or at least make molds of them and make lost wax copys of them to make the watch from. Then make new dial faces that replicate the indicator look. It shouldn't be too difficult to sneak in a second hand in there.maybe this could be a business, i can't be thr only one who loves this look. Maybe mount then to a money clip. Or a tiny chain and a tie clip.or just a tie clip. Make so it can be worn. Even cufflinks. Or a desk clock for the larger ones. Mounted in some fixture.
i have one hanging from my rearview mirror in my 67 plymouth....chicks dig it
Just wondering, did the paper behind the glass in the Federals also get changed? Or was that just color saturation of the video making the before shots look deeper?
All the Federal indicators I’ve ever owned looked just like Adam’s. They have the yellowish hue.
@@wallbawden5511How do you know what he reads and doesn’t read? You really sound like a spoiled little kid who didn’t get his way. Poor baby.
@@wallbawden5511 Interesting, because he actually commented on the Specs from the original handbook. Why so butthurt buddy?
@@wallbawden5511 LOL.... way to dig a deeper hole man! :D Thanks for the laughs though.
Hey Abom - when you going to do a surface grinder?
Is the cross section of the squareness comparator's large ground radius at the base, ground with a radius as well, like a hand wheel? Or like a sideways letter U where there is clearance behind the exact touch point?
In addition to your four points, don't you also need to mic the diameter of the cylindrical square at both ends to rule out any taper?
You could also flip it over and check without re-zeroing the indicator.
Is there some sort of calibration tool to ensure they're reading the proper measurement? Or does Mark do that as part of the repair process?
Dial test indicators and dial indicators are comparative test equipment. They aren't typically used to measure direct dimensions. That said, you could zero them out on a surface plate and then use something like a gauge block to see if the indicator is accurate.
@@noelhenderson7337 aaahhh makes sense, thanks for the answer.
In the place I used to work we used a micrometer dti setting tool, basically the barrel part of a micrometer on a stand. Bring the DTI up to it and then compare what it says on the DTI to what the micrometer says
I’m wondering why the little meter doe not have a mirror backing ring in it. Like the “old” mechanical multimeter. The mirror helps you to lineup you eyesight perfectly to the needle position. You lineup your eyesight so the needle reflection I’d perfectly behind itself, then you take the measurement reading.
Huh, I saw a fb post from Mark saying he was retiring. interesting.
Hi Adam, what is the grain size of the grinding stone? 400/1000?
Tool tuesday!!!!!!!
👍🏻
Man, with Grandad's signature? That is worth more then gold. I wish I had my grandad's signature. All I got is a picture with Eisenhower.
please would anyone tell me the track id of the intro song :))))))) it gets me every time
😊❤
Hey where's the baby cylinder square 😂
16:41 .. LoL or just a very expensive length of pipe!? ...
Seller of squareness comparator: "Oh, the indicator works juuuuuust fine, Adam, now GIVE ME MY MUN-NEY!!!" I detest liars. MR really does fantastic repairs/restorations. He's quite a treasure.
You cannot put an object too long in Evaporust as it only reacts with the rust, not the metal.
😛😛😛😛😛😛❤❤❤❤❤👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
30 year in business doing a great service.. And still using Hotmail? Set him up with someone to arrange webservice and a proper domain. This is not 1996.
Why? Mark is successful.
There is no such thing as perfectly square it is impossible, it could be infinitely smaller infinitely large I can't ever be perfect, if you understand then you know
If you understand then you know why I said in the video “you always have a tolerance to work within” when inspecting.
Thanks for sharing.