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Isaiah 11:6-9 is an uncorrupted verse(s) about the vision God has for the Golden Age we were promised, it is also basically the vision of the Garden of Eden. The Sunday book, which the Roman Government collected all Israelites scrolls and texts and put together a book about their religion, edited parts in about meat eating etc so that it appears "Jesus" ate meat and procured the deaths of other animals. In reality that's all utter cowdung.
@@dealarr Here is one that proves man is not superior to animals and we all share the same soul & Afterlife - “For the fate of men and the fate of animals is the same; as one dies, so dies the other, and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for all is just vanity and pride.” - Ecclesiastes 3:19“
Genesis 1 clearly states that man is superior to the animals. Genesis 2 has Adam naming the animals. Genesis 3 has Adam and Eve sinning and causing the curse of sin to enter into the world. The animals were never given this choice. You also do not understand what the verse is actually saying. Man and beast both go to the grave. The bible teaches soul sleep; see Eccelesiates 9:5-6. The bible teaches that the dead in Christ will rise at his second coming; see 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thess 4. The writer of Eccelesiates is demonstrating that man, without the resurrection, is equivalent to animals in death.
@@andrewjstatham Um, Adam & Eve is a fable, never happened, it was the Fallen Angels who introduced flesh-eating and war into the world, Book of Enoch. And Ecclesiastes 3 19 as posted above clearly states NO SUPERIORITY and same souls. You cherrypick the verses that exploit animals. WTF is soul sleep, you've never heard of NDEs? No one sleeps LMFAO You're a fundamentalist animal abuser looking for excuses who probably supports animal sacrifice. Shame on you.
@@andrewjstatham It doesn't matter what we humans think of Animals. It is not in our position to give them a position for we are in the same created state as they are. God said in Isaiah 11:6-9 no destroying or killing of God's Animals. Would you like to go against God?
Nearly in vain have I looked for Christian clergy who preach and practice reverence for life (I go to Jains and Buddhists to hear such people). David found one. Philip Avery is delightful, and a great inspiration. This is an extraordinary conversation.
Buddhism is more clear and upfront than Christianity about protecting and respecting animal lives.. So Buddhism is more philosophically Vegan than christianity.. And yet the majority of Buddhists are not Vegan.. Non-vegan christians can use that unclear stance as a reason for killing and eating animals.. But buddhists are more blatantly going against their own Vegan precepts.
This one verse left in after all the Bible editing proves what Pythagoras taught (some lives we are humans, others we are animals, all the same soul) -- “For the fate of men and the fate of animals is the same; as one dies, so dies the other, and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for all is just vanity and pride.” - Ecclesiastes 3:19
@@veganm8918 From what I undeserved, he was just vegetarian, occasionally having cheese or honey. Not to say that he didn't help lay the philosophical framework for veganism.
If killing is called spirituality, Then what is the definition of brutality? If a life-taker is loving and kind, What is a murderer then defined? If care means silencing a beating heart, What rips the soul and tears it apart? If kindness walks where suffering lies, What name remains for pain and cries? Oh, weigh these words, this fragile line, Between the cruel and the divine.
Thank you David, I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. I hope I didn't cause you too many hours of editing to make me sound so erudite 😂. I hugely support all that you are doing and it has been great to see your continual conversations with Kam Waters.
I think this is the perfect time for stuff like this to come up as the political power is shifting towards conservatives. Thank you for making this video and I can't wait to see your upcoming movie!
Thanks for bringing us this, David. Rare find. Difficult to find people in institutionalized religions who have evolved to having compassion for animals.
I left decades of Christianity about 7 years ago and ran into a lot of very annoying and dishonest Christians after I did. By contrast, this guy is so much more reasonable and humane than that. Genuinely thoughtful, ethical and honest. If only all Christians were like this.
@@MoistVeganChristianity is a man made religion that wove together the OT, blood thirsty, vengeful eye for an eye god with the all forgiving, turn the other cheek, Heavenly Father Jesus spoke of. Christians are wrong for continually sacrificing animals for their gluttony. Following the teachings of Jesus is different from fellowship with the most resistant population to the veganism movement.
I’m a vegan and a Christian. I’ve never been anti vegan, but I never understood veganism. In my case it’s been reading and reading and reading that made me realise I needed to make this crucial change. To me, veganism is better compatible with my belief in Christ.
"We are used to thinking of humans as the masters of the Earth, but in reality, we are simply one species among many, and we share the planet with countless other sentient beings." - Yuval Noah Harari
God created humans to have dominion over the other creatures and while I choose a vegan diet because it is the healthiest diet and I don't like what happens with factory farming animals you must be totally ignorant of the difference in abilities between other living things and us if you think that we are all the same.
^THIS. And according to the bible, God is going to restore that initial Edenic world that was HIS design and intent in the first place, and once again there will be peace and harmony among all creation, no flesh eating (Isaiah 11:6-9). This is something I try to share with non-vegan Christians all the time, but unfortunately many seem to actually prefer the ways of this fallen world, at least when it comes to how we relate to animals.
Bullshit. The garden of Eden was a con for the Lord to turn Eve into a sinner and she gave birth to a killer who murdered his brother and the Lord knew it would happen. After all, God knows everything.
You might also enjoy the works of Rev. Andrew Linzey, who writes about Christianity and animal rights. Another good (but brief) book about this subject is Is God a Vegetarian? by Richard Alan Young.
Unbelievable. Not to be mean, but one can't reason with such ignorance. They have blood on their hands. You don't, and I hope that you feel more thankful for that every day. A higher path is not always easy to take, and it may be a lonely one, but there is no better friend than you yourself, adhering to higher principles. You are unique in being a Christian who practices Jesus' message of kindness and compassion.
How do you that, by living on a chemical diet? Growing foods on chemicals. Food is supposed to be grown in soil and soil is made from animal produce. Sorry but you lose.
What a fantastic conversation.David, these conversations are so much more engaging at a deep level than conflict debate videos (and my blood pressure is kept down😂) Love it, really like this new approach
This was a great chat David and a rare person to find to interview! These Christian and Vegan videos are some of my favourites of yours, as they helped plant in me seeds of faith before I got baptised earlier this year. Another good thing to point out to Christians is that the word Nephesh is used to describe both animals and humans in the book of Genesis, which means soul. (Genesis 1:30 and Genesis 2:7)
I don't know of any Christians that I work with that actually truly understand that animals lives matter and what it means to be a christian. It's like working with wolves in sheep's clothing. They pretend that they're all nice and would do anything for anyone but when it comes down to the actual situation involving an animal's life I find that I stand alone. It's sad to know that I am the only one in the building who truly shows what Jesus was talking about by showing kindness and mercy towards everyone including animals. All I can do is pray for everyone in that building and hope that they see the connection and change what they eat on their plate and how they react to animals in general.
@ub-minosfireborn5722 that's because you don't have compassion and empathy for anyone. Society has desensitized and groomed you into believing that violence is okay but it's not. If all the animals were taken away today what would you do? Would you start eating people? Or would you recognize this as a chance to start eating plant-based food like the beginning started?
That was the first time I’ve ever heard that as well… Very interesting. I know in scripture it says that God gave both humans and animals the exact same “Nepesh Chayyah” breath….. meaning living creature, or living soul. So I knew something was not adding up. Cannot wait to use this in my Vegan outreach!
I believe in Romans 15 Paul talks about A man has a weak faith 11:12 who doesn’t eat meat, then at the end of John after Jesus resurrection he’s cooking fish for the disciples and he says come and eat so if he’s willing to cook the fish, why wouldn’t he be willing to eat the fish while he was here?
Excellent discussion gents. I'm atheist so I learnt a lot! I hope some Christians make the connection and go vegan! Anyone reading this remember.. nowhere in the bible does it say that meat-eating is mandatory, so why choose violence in 2024 when we don't need to? 🌱🌱💚💚
Excellent talk, thanks so much to you both! I'm a Christian vegan, and part of online church called Creation Care Church that promotes biblical veganism...and we're trying to get the word out too, to mainstream Christians. It can be so disheartening to see so many Christians who are callous toward animals, but I think many are simply unaware of how diabolical the animal industries are, and have never given this topic much thought. I was clueless before too, most of us were at one point. (And look at me now, I went from being an enthusiastic meat-eater to a passionate vegan with my own ministry to try reach non-vegan Christians)🙂So I think more and more Christians are waking up, and the movement is growing! I'm really thankful for Christspiracy and the vegan influencers who have brought up the (true) Christian perspective on their channels. Thank you again and many blessings! 💚🙌
God and Jesus Christ never approved of killing, or the eating of meat and any clergy person that says they did, these ministers did not read the bible, I have been a vegan for 44 years, and an animal activist, advocate and master vegan debater for 40 years. Because my vegan debates kept turning into heated biblical discussions, I then became a Christian vegan minister in 2010, which will be 15 years this coming January tenth) As a vegan minister I then became an advanced Theologian who majored in religious history, with a master's in both the Old and the New Testament, because I was tired of how meat eaters were weaponizing God and Jesus Christ as the reason why they ate meat. Concerning when and why I became Vegan, I first became vegetarian at the age of 12 years old after reading the book. “Mankind” by author Cleavland Amory, and then I became vegan at the age of 19.
That's very interesting -- so you are well aware of all the editing of the Bible (Council of Nicaea Bishops, Roman Emperors Constantine and Justinian, and Paul the fake Apostile's corruption of Jesus's doctrine)? Just curious because I doubt they would include that in any teaching for a Master's, it's something you have to research on your own.
@@planetofthevegans880 Meat edits God’s final, unchangeable word in the Bible the Council of Nicaea are HUMAN Bishops, Roman Emperors Constantine and Justinian, and Paul. They are NOT God, Meat is fake Meat is the corruption of God’s and Jesus Christ’s doctrine from the beginning. Do not follow the words and opinions of Human beings follow God. God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow, God's plant-based diet from the beginning is final and unchangeable, those who truly know God, are well aware that God does not undo what God has set into motion, God’s final, unchangeable, word, diet, truth, and instructions from the beginning lasts from generation to generation without interruption or end for it is eternal just as God is eternal. the word final means allowing no further doubt or dispute, the decision and judgment is complete and cannot be changed or appealed. The bible tells us this 39 times in both the 66 books of the Old and the New testament even in the book of James, Book Fifty-Nine we are told God relents from doing HARM God does NOT relent from keeping God’s word. God's word from the beginning is final and unchangeable, #1, Numbers 23:19, “God does not change God’s mind.” (Old Testament Book Four) #2. 1 Samuel 15:29, “God does not lie or change his mind; for God is not a human being, that he should change his mind.” (Old Testament Book Nine) #3. Malachi 3:6, God said, “I the Lord do not change.” (Old Testament Book Thirty-Nine #4, Hebrews 7:20,28, Jesus became a priest with an oath when God said to him: “The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind, the lord will not relent.” (New Testament Book Nineteen,) #5, Isaiah 31:2, “God does not retract God’s words.” (Old Testament Book Twenty-Three Book 58 in the Bible) #6, Romans 11:29, “When God calls you to do something, this is irrevocable it can never be withdrawn. This applies also to God’s spiritual gifts.” (New Testament, Book Six Book 45 in the Bible)) #7, Isaiah 43:13, God said, “No one can deliver out of my hand, and when I act, no one can undo what I have done, no one can reverse it.” (Old Testament Book Twenty -Three) #8, 1 Corinthians 14:33, “God is not a God of disorder.” (New Testament Book Number seven, Book 46 in the Bible) Once Again, God’s Words, And Instructions Are Final. #9, Lamentations 5:19, “Your rule O Lord, is ever lasting and forever.” (Old Testament Book Twenty-five) #10, 1 Peter 1:25; “The word of the Lord remains and endures forever.” (New Testament Book Twenty-One, Book Twenty-One, Book Sixty-One in the Bible) #11. Ecclesiastes 3:14, “I know that everything God does will endure forever; nothing can be added to it and nothing taken from it. (Old Testament Book Twenty-One) #12, Proverbs 19:21, “Many are the plans in the minds of men, but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand.” (Old Testament Book Twenty) #13, Mark 13:31, The lord says, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.” (New Testament Book Two, Book Forty-One in the Bible #14, Isaiah 40:8, “The grass withers, the flower fade, but the word of our God remains forever.” (Old Testament Book Twenty -Three) #15. 1 Peter 1:23, “God’s word is an incorruptible seed, which lives and abides forever.” (New Testament Book Twenty-One, Book Twenty -One. Book Sixty in the Bible) Ephesians 6:10, "Be strong in the Lord and in the strength of God's might." #16. Psalm 93:1, "The Lord is clothed in strength; indeed, the world is established, firm and secure. The Lords words, testimonies and statutes, Lord, stand firm." #17, Isaiah 46:5-8,10, The Lord told the people, “Listen to me, you descendants of man, with whom do you compare me to and with whom do you count me equal to? I am equal to no man, remember this, keep it in mind, take it to heart, you rebels. Remember the former things, from long ago in the beginning I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. ‘My purpose will stand.” (Old Testament Book Twenty -Three) #18, James 1:17 and 13. “The Father of light has no variation or shadow due to change. God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desires and enticements. (God however stays the same, God’s words, and instructions are final).” (New Testament Book Twenty. Book Fifty-Nine of the Bible.) God Does Not Break God’s Covenants. #19. Judges 2:1, The Lord said, “I will never break My covenant with you.” (Old Testament Book Seven) #20. Psalm 89:34, The Lord said, “My covenant I will not violate, nor will I alter the utterance of My lips.” (Old Testament Book Nineteen.) #21. Nehemiah 1:5, “O Lord God of heaven, the great and awesome God, who preserves the covenant and lovingkindness for those who love Him and keep His commandments.” (Old Testament Book Sixteen) #22. Nehemiah 9:32, “Our God, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God, keeps God’s covenant with lovingkindness.” (Old Testament Book sixteen) #23. Leviticus 26:9, The lord says, “I will confirm My covenant with you. You will still be eating last year’s harvest when you will have to move it out to make room for the new, and I will walk among you and be your God, and you will be my people.” (Old Testament Book Three) #24. Psalm 105:8, “God remembers his covenant forever, the promise he made, for a thousand generations.” (Old Testament Book Nineteen) #25. Psalm 119:160, “The sum of God’s word and statutes is truth, and every one of God’s righteous rules endures forever.” (Old Testament Book Nineteen) #26. Galatians 1:9, “If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, they are accursed.” (New Testament Book Nine, Book Forty-Eight in the Bible) #27. 1 Corinthians 1:9-10, “God is faithful (To God’s word).” I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, a in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought.” (New Testament Book Seven, Book Forty-Six in the Bible) #28. John 14:23, The Lord said. “If anyone loves Me, they will keep My word.” (New Testament Book Four, Book Forty-Three in the Bible) #29, Isaiah 40:28 “”The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He does not faint or grow weary; his understanding is unsearchable.” (Old Testament Book Twenty -Three.) God Does NOT LIE. #30. Numbers 23:19, tells us, “God is not a man, that God should lie, nor is God a son of man, God makes good on God’s promises and instructions,” #31. 1 Samuel 15:29, “God will not lie or change His mind; for God is not a man that God should change God’s mind.” #32. Hebrews 6:18, This remains unchangeable it is impossible for God to lie, so that we might have a strong consolation, and refuge to lay hold of so we keep the hope that God set before us.” #33. Deuteronomy 32:4, ““The Rock, God’s work is perfect, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he.” #34. Romans 1:25, "Men changed the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator." #35. Matthew 22:16, The Lords disciples said, “Teacher, we know that You are true and teach the way of God in truth; nor for you do not care about anyone, You do not regard the opinions of men.” #36, Proverbs 12:22. “Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord, but those who act faithfully are God’s delight.” To be faithful is to follow God’s first word in the beginning. #37. 1 Corinthians 13:6, “God does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth.” #38. Zechariah 8:17, “Do not devise evil in your hearts against one another, and love no false oath, for all these things I hate, declares the LORD.” An oath is a sworn declaration of truth God made an oath to us that plants would be our ONLY food, but Men falsified that oath and sacrificed animals as meat. #39. Zechariah 8:16, “These are the things that you shall do: Speak the truth to one another; render in your gates judgments that are true and make for peace.” Meat does not make peace with God, nor does meat make peace with God’s animal creations, or God’s word, truth, instructions and plant-based diet. our, Book Forty-Three in the Bible)our, Book Forty-Three in the Bible)
@@planetofthevegans880 Meat edits God’s final, unchangeable word in the Bible The Council of Nicaea are HUMAN Bishops, HUMAN Roman Emperors HUMAN Constantines and HUMAN Justinians, and Paul who is also a HuMAN BEING, they are NOT God, Meat is fake, Meat is not from God, meat is the corruption of God’s and Jesus Christ’s doctrine from the beginning. Do not follow the words and opinions of Human beings, follow God. God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow, God's plant-based diet from the beginning is final and unchangeable, those who truly know God, are well aware that God does not undo what God has set into motion, God’s final, unchangeable, word, diet, truth, and instructions from the beginning lasts from generation to generation without interruption or end for it is eternal just as God is eternal. the word final means allowing no further doubt or dispute, the decision and judgment is complete and cannot be changed or appealed.
I am not currently very active on social media, but I am currently setting up a new website and RUclips channel. I will let you know when I am active. I haven't really been active on my Wisdom's Table channel for some time, but I am considering resurrecting it.
As a christian who became vegan recently I never felt any sort of moral issues of if my faith and veganism would clash, to me it felt like a natrual progression. I am exploring priesthood too but feel like in my church at least, c of e, I have heard horror stories of ordanaids being kicked out of training college for having socialist, pacifist or vegan outlook, which worries me for the future of the church.
Thank you for the excellent conversation. I read that one of the fish stories was written decades after the death of Christ to boost membership in the Catholic church due to low numbers at the time. Could anyone share details on this?
Jesus is never said to eat the Passover lamb. He is the lamb, the last sacrifice. When Jesus fed his disciples 'fish' after his resurrection he is referring to the body of Christ being caught up into the unbreakable net which is in the father's hand. Once they ate they knew him again.
If killing is called spirituality, Then what is the face of brutality? If a life-taker is loving and kind, What is a murderer then defined? If care means silencing a beating heart, What rips the soul and tears it apart? If kindness walks where suffering lies, What name remains for pain and cries? Oh, weigh these words, this fragile line, Between the cruel and the divine.
@@knightofwangernumb2998 That's a really weird explanation! The fishing story was merely a parable to show Jesus wanted people to stop killing fish and instead start 'catching' souls of people for God. The body of Christ is a fundamentalist concept, it means nothing
I would ask this kind gentleman to please reconsider his opinion on the whole flood thing -- I believe it was largely an editorial insertion in order to blame God for "allowing" humans to start eating meat (for "survival.") I doubt there was a flood that took away all edible plants or even a Noah's ark, for that matter, because God would NEVER give permission for any such thing for any reason.
I too think the whole flood thing was nonsense. It makes no sense -- what did the animals eat without plants -- each other????? They would have gone extinct with everyone devouring each other. Silly story.
That is the craziest thing like you said about the women too! Women in the church nowadays still have no power, and a lot of female pastors are looked down upon, but I always reiterate, who was there at Jesus‘s feet while he was crucified? The women!!! and like you said, the women always get it right And understand exactly what Jesus was trying to say and his truth
Funny enough, the idea of an immortal soul itself is taken from Greco-Roman philosophy, and was not present in Judaism. Judaism emphasizes bodily resurrection. The breath of life, or "Nepesh," is not a soul per se.
Did you know that Jesus taught reincarnation and that his followers continued to believe in it for almost 6 centuries A.D.? The concept was then ordered to be banned by Roman Emperor Justinian and the Bible was edited accordingly (replaced with eternal damnation & Hell)
@ can’t say for sure as the angels I’ve encountered were fully cloaked and while I know what their clothing looks like down to the stitching I can only speculate as to what they look like underneath.
They are called slaughterhouses. Not sending them off to humane houses. So it’s weird how some people want to act like anything behind those closed doors is humane.
There is an inaccurate summary of the soul and historical philosophers. According to Aristotle and Aquinas, all living things have souls. There are different kinds of souls, and Aquinas said that only humans have eternal rational souls that will continue to exist after death. While Aquinas didn´t argue against using animals, it was René Descartes at the beginning of the modern era who claimed that plants and animals are like soulless machines. He was also a christian, but his philosophy doesn´t represent the christian theological tradition.
most people in history were simply ignorant of animals, but this ignorance was fueled primarily by survival. Hard to blame a species where killing animals is necessary for their survival.
David Rams You should have an interview with a REAL scholar:: Dr. James Tabor, who played a BIG background part in the history of religion that were portrayed in CHRISTSPIRACY He is a professor of Theology etc. knowing Greek/Hebrew He will be able to give you a more clear understanding of the interpolations and mistranslations that appeared in the Bible (Torah/New Testament) This vicar is a very nice person but its clear he doesnt have the historical knowledge that Dr. James Tabor has
I have been a vegan since 1994 and baptised as one of Jehovahs witnesses in 2003. As far as l know l am, the only JW vegan in my congregation. From my study of the Bible, lt seems Jesus did eat animals. The Bible says that after the flood, Jehovah allowed humans to kill animals for food. He also gave Adam and Eve and us free will to choose. It is this misuse of the freedom to choose that causes much suffering in the world. However, this freedom to do as we like is a temporary thing and there are beautiful scriptures that speak of the restored paradise where animals and people will live as in Eden. Sadly, the eating of animals and other abuses of animals is now deeply rooted in humans. I do not expect veganism to end such cruelty. Only Jehovah God can do that, and he will soon.
I do know that Jesus represents Christ consciousness, a higher enlightened state of being. Therefore, we do not have more compassion and mercy for animals than Jesus! Jesus would not harm or eat animals, I have zero doubts because it’s in my heart which is not even at an enlightened state of consciousness. There are many references to Jesus stating these things in other scriptures unequivocally!
What about the quadrillion of sentient insets that are slowly poisoned for vegetable crops? Do their lives not matter? And before you say more crops are fed to animals, this has absolutely not been proven. Grass in pastures and crop-by products account for most animal nutrition.
How can we know? Its all irrelevant anyway, we dont need to force animals into slaughterhouses, and no holy book should be used as a justifcation for violence towards anyone.
@ a monk name trevrizent wouldn’t eat bloody meats a follower of the teachings of the Holy Grail … every step is a sacrifice as try not too. Was that sinful step ever a mistake…. As all sinful people become sinless, nothing you eat is more or less sinful
@ manufacturing books is toxic and unsustainable Jesus was to abolish money destroy all borders and private property, end all religious titles, gender norms, races, competition as we end poverty destroying social classes
@@John.AR.Activism Lies being spread and perpetuated are never irrelevant. They need to be cleared up. Jesus never killed fish or any other creature, did not steal bird's eggs or cow's milk, nor did God condone animal sacrifice or the exploitation of any animal whom He lovingly created with the same soul as humans.
Genesis 9:4 "But you are not to eat meat with blood in it. (Blood is life.) It's nearly impossible to remove all the blood. It was meant more towards eating of bugs for sustenance, and not actual animals, although it was allowed for a time due to what the flood did to the landscape. Pray that you are worthy to eat from the tree of life. The fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil opened our eyes to awesome possibilities. Look around you in this world. Pray for those who are in darkness.
I highly doubt the flood ever happened. It was just an excuse to blame God for "allowing" people to start eating animals. It makes no sense -- if there were no plants, what did the animals eat? They'd have gone extinct with everybody else eating them by the time the plants finally grew back. Oh, and there's no proof humans ever ate bugs either.
but the planet/nature can't handle any more human "fluency" ! i agree with much of what religion says- but the "god" /"heaven" concept is nuts- we are animals like all the others- totally reliable on healthy/diverse ecostystems- and death is a good thing since its the end of pain and its food for the living.
This is very helpful for all those little details and understanding regarding the ethical stance… However vegan -yes the most conducive to life but not necessarily for particularly women and human life production maybe because of how we’ve evolved we are able to live so much longer possibly due to the nutrients density - many women become anemic or lose their periods when they become vegan. I think it’s hard to get enough macro nutrients versus micro nutrients and plant fats only. ideally it would be lovely if we can get it all from naturebut I think X preparation $ and knowledge , often is what create unsustainability long-term , or seem daunting or threatening to the general population. I think greater impact would be focusing on minimizing as much as possible to the mass population ! Vs pressuring in some way idealistic ethical stance (people may automatically feel judged if they come up short ,100% and shamed (resentful at insinuation that they are a worse being if not ):(it can be a head trip:
You are starting out with the assumption that Jesus really existed, which is stupid. You are not even saying what evidence has convinced you that he really existed and is not just a totally made up character in a fairytale.
"Virtually all scholars of antiquity accept that Jesus was a historical figure, and the idea that Jesus was a mythical figure has been consistently rejected by the scholarly consensus as a fringe theory." - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus#:~:text=Virtually%20all%20scholars%20of%20antiquity,consensus%20as%20a%20fringe%20theory.
@@davidramms Why would that be a reason to believe Jesus really existed? Also, you have presented your video as if it is an established fact that he really existed; as if ALL scholars of antiquity accept that he was a historical figure. Yet here you admit that it is not "all". Dr. Richard Carrier has an article titled "List of Historians Who Take Mythicism Seriously" and currently there are 44 historians on that list. (By "mythicism" he means the belief that a historical Jesus never existed.) He says that this list features "only scholars with relevant PhDs". I won't attempt to post a link to it here, as that will probably prevent my comment from being published, so if you want to read it you will have to do a search for that title and author.
3:44 So he’s vegan because of how much he values dogs? And he finally related pigs to dogs? Every verse in the Bible abt dogs is negative, look up dog attacks, dogs have k!lled and permanently disfigured so many innocent ch!ldren! How inhumane can one be towards Jesus precious little ones.
Religion is BS. People are as good as they are. Being a man of god doesn’t mean shit, and they are just as sensitive to feeling criticism as anyone else. And my experience is that a lot of people have strong reactions against veganism because they deep down know not being vegan is less ethical. And in comes the cognitive dissonance and mental gymnastics to defend their feeling of moral high ground. Just to be clear, I don’t care much if people are religious. I just don’t think it means anything. I have meet religious people that legit follows what the books teaches. They are against greed, they help people in need, they accept people regardless of their sexuality and so on. And than the complete opposite exist as well.
It depends what you define as "religion." In order to spiritually evolve, we need to progress beyond organized religion and atheism, as both are equally close-minded and limited. Open your mind to all possibilities.
@@harveyplantharvester1502 Sure, show me some evidence and I am happy to change my mind. But any form of faith based belief is willingly inviting stupidiy to live in your head.
Most "christians" don't read the Bible. The eating of animal flesh wasn't part of the original plan. Both man and animals were vegan. The same will be true with the new heavens and new earth. Most "Christians" do not want accept the fact that the original diet is the best for them and want to continue a life of worldly convenience.
Eden wus purfict and *VEGUN* . intu đis wurld Adam was made whu was purfict đerfor *VEGAN* Jesus told follows tu be 'purfict' - which NESUSIRILI ment being as you wur in Edun ie vegan. Unfortunitli Jesus himself was born intu a fallen wurld and was not purfict ie he ET animals.
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Isaiah 11:6-9 is an uncorrupted verse(s) about the vision God has for the Golden Age we were promised, it is also basically the vision of the Garden of Eden.
The Sunday book, which the Roman Government collected all Israelites scrolls and texts and put together a book about their religion, edited parts in about meat eating etc so that it appears "Jesus" ate meat and procured the deaths of other animals. In reality that's all utter cowdung.
@@dealarr Here is one that proves man is not superior to animals and we all share the same soul & Afterlife - “For the fate of men and the fate of animals is the same; as one dies, so dies the other, and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for all is just vanity and pride.” - Ecclesiastes 3:19“
Genesis 1 clearly states that man is superior to the animals. Genesis 2 has Adam naming the animals. Genesis 3 has Adam and Eve sinning and causing the curse of sin to enter into the world. The animals were never given this choice. You also do not understand what the verse is actually saying. Man and beast both go to the grave. The bible teaches soul sleep; see Eccelesiates 9:5-6. The bible teaches that the dead in Christ will rise at his second coming; see 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thess 4. The writer of Eccelesiates is demonstrating that man, without the resurrection, is equivalent to animals in death.
@@andrewjstatham Um, Adam & Eve is a fable, never happened, it was the Fallen Angels who introduced flesh-eating and war into the world, Book of Enoch. And Ecclesiastes 3 19 as posted above clearly states NO SUPERIORITY and same souls. You cherrypick the verses that exploit animals.
WTF is soul sleep, you've never heard of NDEs? No one sleeps LMFAO
You're a fundamentalist animal abuser looking for excuses who probably supports animal sacrifice. Shame on you.
@@andrewjstatham It doesn't matter what we humans think of Animals. It is not in our position to give them a position for we are in the same created state as they are.
God said in Isaiah 11:6-9 no destroying or killing of God's Animals. Would you like to go against God?
Nearly in vain have I looked for Christian clergy who preach and practice reverence for life (I go to Jains and Buddhists to hear such people). David found one. Philip Avery is delightful, and a great inspiration. This is an extraordinary conversation.
I have been turned off by organized religion after watching christspiracy..however discussions like this give me hope to salvage faith
Look up - Creation Care Church
Buddhism is more clear and upfront than Christianity about protecting and respecting animal lives.. So Buddhism is more philosophically Vegan than christianity.. And yet the majority of Buddhists are not Vegan.. Non-vegan christians can use that unclear stance as a reason for killing and eating animals.. But buddhists are more blatantly going against their own Vegan precepts.
@@MoistVegan Thank you.
"Animals share with us the privilege of having a soul." - Pythagoras
Soul wisdom❤
Pythagoras lived in a plant based community back in 500 BC. Funny how many people say it is some new fad.
This one verse left in after all the Bible editing proves what Pythagoras taught (some lives we are humans, others we are animals, all the same soul) -- “For the fate of men and the fate of animals is the same; as one dies, so dies the other, and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for all is just vanity and pride.” - Ecclesiastes 3:19
@@veganm8918
From what I undeserved, he was just vegetarian, occasionally having cheese or honey.
Not to say that he didn't help lay the philosophical framework for veganism.
What’s a ‘soul’?
If killing is called spirituality,
Then what is the definition of brutality?
If a life-taker is loving and kind,
What is a murderer then defined?
If care means silencing a beating heart,
What rips the soul and tears it apart?
If kindness walks where suffering lies,
What name remains for pain and cries?
Oh, weigh these words, this fragile line,
Between the cruel and the divine.
Thank you David, I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. I hope I didn't cause you too many hours of editing to make me sound so erudite 😂. I hugely support all that you are doing and it has been great to see your continual conversations with Kam Waters.
Bless you, wise and compassionate sir! We need more spiritually-minded vegans.
Loved listening to your compassionate conversation. Not religious, but am vegan. ❤ Thank you for speaking up for the innocent victims.
I think this is the perfect time for stuff like this to come up as the political power is shifting towards conservatives. Thank you for making this video and I can't wait to see your upcoming movie!
Thanks for bringing us this, David. Rare find. Difficult to find people in institutionalized religions who have evolved to having compassion for animals.
Thanks Mark! It's true, and I really hope people like Philip can change that.
I left decades of Christianity about 7 years ago and ran into a lot of very annoying and dishonest Christians after I did.
By contrast, this guy is so much more reasonable and humane than that. Genuinely thoughtful, ethical and honest. If only all Christians were like this.
Watch christspiracy and don't blame God and ekave Church due to people
@@MoistVeganChristianity is a man made religion that wove together the OT, blood thirsty, vengeful eye for an eye god with the all forgiving, turn the other cheek, Heavenly Father Jesus spoke of. Christians are wrong for continually sacrificing animals for their gluttony. Following the teachings of Jesus is different from fellowship with the most resistant population to the veganism movement.
I’m a vegan and a Christian. I’ve never been anti vegan, but I never understood veganism. In my case it’s been reading and reading and reading that made me realise I needed to make this crucial change. To me, veganism is better compatible with my belief in Christ.
Alleluia. Well done. I am a catholic and going vegan settled my moral compass in one final direction, towards Jesus.
Really awesome how he found his way to be compassionate towards ALL God’s children, animals as well!
"We are used to thinking of humans as the masters of the Earth, but in reality, we are simply one species among many, and we share the planet with countless other sentient beings." - Yuval Noah Harari
You're quoting a guy who also said that most humans are 'useless eaters'. You vegans are strange.
We are the destroyers of the earth.....
God created humans to have dominion over the other creatures and while I choose a vegan diet because it is the healthiest diet and I don't like what happens with factory farming animals you must be totally ignorant of the difference in abilities between other living things and us if you think that we are all the same.
The Garden of Eden, a paradise, was vegan.
^THIS. And according to the bible, God is going to restore that initial Edenic world that was HIS design and intent in the first place, and once again there will be peace and harmony among all creation, no flesh eating (Isaiah 11:6-9). This is something I try to share with non-vegan Christians all the time, but unfortunately many seem to actually prefer the ways of this fallen world, at least when it comes to how we relate to animals.
Bullshit. The garden of Eden was a con for the Lord to turn Eve into a sinner and she gave birth to a killer who murdered his brother and the Lord knew it would happen. After all, God knows everything.
Thank you. As a struggling christian vegan this was very helpful. I have been told I'm going to hell because I refuse to eat animals
What sort of sick human being would say that to you?
You might also enjoy the works of Rev. Andrew Linzey, who writes about Christianity and animal rights. Another good (but brief) book about this subject is Is God a Vegetarian? by Richard Alan Young.
😞That’s awful. The battle between a good god and the evil god continues to challenge many people.
Wow! Too many "Christians" are actually worshipping satan.... 😢
Unbelievable. Not to be mean, but one can't reason with such ignorance. They have blood on their hands. You don't, and I hope that you feel more thankful for that every day. A higher path is not always easy to take, and it may be a lonely one, but there is no better friend than you yourself, adhering to higher principles. You are unique in being a Christian who practices Jesus' message of kindness and compassion.
*Create a Better 🌎 and a Better You by.............Living Vegan* 💜
👶🏻
@ReverendDr.Thomas
🔪 👶 🥩 🍽
😘
How do you that, by living on a chemical diet? Growing foods on chemicals. Food is supposed to be grown in soil and soil is made from animal produce. Sorry but you lose.
@toni4729
Thank you for confirming you're nothing but a 🥩 🤡
What a fantastic conversation.David, these conversations are so much more engaging at a deep level than conflict debate videos (and my blood pressure is kept down😂)
Love it, really like this new approach
Very enlightening. It's amazing to have people like him on our side. Thanks for sharing his view!
Merry Christmas 🎄
This was a great chat David and a rare person to find to interview! These Christian and Vegan videos are some of my favourites of yours, as they helped plant in me seeds of faith before I got baptised earlier this year. Another good thing to point out to Christians is that the word Nephesh is used to describe both animals and humans in the book of Genesis, which means soul. (Genesis 1:30 and Genesis 2:7)
Such so pleasing to watch . Thank you . Animals ARE here WITH us. 💚🌱💚🌱
David is an inspiration
I don't know of any Christians that I work with that actually truly understand that animals lives matter and what it means to be a christian. It's like working with wolves in sheep's clothing. They pretend that they're all nice and would do anything for anyone but when it comes down to the actual situation involving an animal's life I find that I stand alone. It's sad to know that I am the only one in the building who truly shows what Jesus was talking about by showing kindness and mercy towards everyone including animals. All I can do is pray for everyone in that building and hope that they see the connection and change what they eat on their plate and how they react to animals in general.
I've seen foolishness in my time but you, to an extent for animals; I can say is the most foolish thinking I've read.
@ub-minosfireborn5722 that's because you don't have compassion and empathy for anyone. Society has desensitized and groomed you into believing that violence is okay but it's not. If all the animals were taken away today what would you do? Would you start eating people? Or would you recognize this as a chance to start eating plant-based food like the beginning started?
Excellent discussion. The Vicar spoke with knowledge, clarity and compassion. Overall very informative.
Thanks!
Thank you!
😇 May God Bless You Always! 😇
Reverend Dr. Thomas,
✝️ The Vegan Vicar 🌱
🔪 👶 🥩
😉
It is amazing i feel the message you give is universal. The true message from Buddha is almost the same. An inspiring conversation 😊😊
great conversation, it inspired me.
Interesting man. Great interview!
That was the first time I’ve ever heard that as well… Very interesting. I know in scripture it says that God gave both humans and animals the exact same “Nepesh Chayyah” breath….. meaning living creature, or living soul. So I knew something was not adding up. Cannot wait to use this in my Vegan outreach!
I watched Christspiracy a few weeks ago it’s a brilliant film 🙂
Wonderful discussion, thank you!!🌱
I believe in Romans 15 Paul talks about A man has a weak faith 11:12 who doesn’t eat meat, then at the end of John after Jesus resurrection he’s cooking fish for the disciples and he says come and eat so if he’s willing to cook the fish, why wouldn’t he be willing to eat the fish while he was here?
Excellent discussion gents. I'm atheist so I learnt a lot! I hope some Christians make the connection and go vegan! Anyone reading this remember.. nowhere in the bible does it say that meat-eating is mandatory, so why choose violence in 2024 when we don't need to? 🌱🌱💚💚
Because we need to
Lol the absence of evidence is not evidence though is it?!
@@yourego6717🧟♂️
Veganism ruined my health, I am athiest and healed carnivore.
You don't need to you want to. You can choose abusing animals of being vegan..
Excellent discussion. I am curious why the quotes in Genesis and Daniel about giving us every plant and seed we need?
Excellent talk, thanks so much to you both! I'm a Christian vegan, and part of online church called Creation Care Church that promotes biblical veganism...and we're trying to get the word out too, to mainstream Christians. It can be so disheartening to see so many Christians who are callous toward animals, but I think many are simply unaware of how diabolical the animal industries are, and have never given this topic much thought. I was clueless before too, most of us were at one point. (And look at me now, I went from being an enthusiastic meat-eater to a passionate vegan with my own ministry to try reach non-vegan Christians)🙂So I think more and more Christians are waking up, and the movement is growing! I'm really thankful for Christspiracy and the vegan influencers who have brought up the (true) Christian perspective on their channels. Thank you again and many blessings! 💚🙌
Great stuff, inspirational!
Thank you Brother!
Great to hear that finally Christian say being vegan 🌱 is being a Christian. Christ spose to be full off compassion for all living beings
Thanks for this great conversation.❤
God and Jesus Christ never approved of killing, or the eating of meat and any clergy person that says they did, these ministers did not read the bible, I have been a vegan for 44 years, and an animal activist, advocate and master vegan debater for 40 years. Because my vegan debates kept turning into heated biblical discussions, I then became a Christian vegan minister in 2010, which will be 15 years this coming January tenth) As a vegan minister I then became an advanced Theologian who majored in religious history, with a master's in both the Old and the New Testament, because I was tired of how meat eaters were weaponizing God and Jesus Christ as the reason why they ate meat. Concerning when and why I became Vegan, I first became vegetarian at the age of 12 years old after reading the book. “Mankind” by author Cleavland Amory, and then I became vegan at the age of 19.
That's very interesting -- so you are well aware of all the editing of the Bible (Council of Nicaea Bishops, Roman Emperors Constantine and Justinian, and Paul the fake Apostile's corruption of Jesus's doctrine)? Just curious because I doubt they would include that in any teaching for a Master's, it's something you have to research on your own.
@@planetofthevegans880 Meat edits God’s final, unchangeable word in the Bible the Council of Nicaea are HUMAN Bishops, Roman Emperors Constantine and Justinian, and Paul. They are NOT God, Meat is fake Meat is the corruption of God’s and Jesus Christ’s doctrine from the beginning. Do not follow the words and opinions of Human beings follow God.
God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow, God's plant-based diet from the beginning is final and unchangeable, those who truly know God, are well aware that God does not undo what God has set into motion, God’s final, unchangeable, word, diet, truth, and instructions from the beginning lasts from generation to generation without interruption or end for it is eternal just as God is eternal. the word final means allowing no further doubt or dispute, the decision and judgment is complete and cannot be changed or appealed. The bible tells us this 39 times in both the 66 books of the Old and the New testament even in the book of James, Book Fifty-Nine we are told God relents from doing HARM God does NOT relent from keeping God’s word. God's word from the beginning is final and unchangeable,
#1, Numbers 23:19, “God does not change God’s mind.” (Old Testament Book Four)
#2. 1 Samuel 15:29, “God does not lie or change his mind; for God is not a human being, that he should change his mind.” (Old Testament Book Nine)
#3. Malachi 3:6, God said, “I the Lord do not change.” (Old Testament Book Thirty-Nine
#4, Hebrews 7:20,28, Jesus became a priest with an oath when God said to him: “The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind, the lord will not relent.” (New Testament Book Nineteen,)
#5, Isaiah 31:2, “God does not retract God’s words.” (Old Testament Book Twenty-Three Book 58 in the Bible)
#6, Romans 11:29, “When God calls you to do something, this is irrevocable it can never be withdrawn. This applies also to God’s spiritual gifts.” (New Testament, Book Six Book 45 in the Bible))
#7, Isaiah 43:13, God said, “No one can deliver out of my hand, and when I act, no one can undo what I have done, no one can reverse it.” (Old Testament Book Twenty -Three)
#8, 1 Corinthians 14:33, “God is not a God of disorder.” (New Testament Book Number seven, Book 46 in the Bible)
Once Again, God’s Words, And Instructions Are Final.
#9, Lamentations 5:19, “Your rule O Lord, is ever lasting and forever.” (Old Testament Book Twenty-five)
#10, 1 Peter 1:25; “The word of the Lord remains and endures forever.” (New Testament Book Twenty-One, Book Twenty-One, Book Sixty-One in the Bible)
#11. Ecclesiastes 3:14, “I know that everything God does will endure forever; nothing can be added to it and nothing taken from it. (Old Testament Book Twenty-One)
#12, Proverbs 19:21, “Many are the plans in the minds of men, but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand.” (Old Testament Book Twenty)
#13, Mark 13:31, The lord says, “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.” (New Testament Book Two, Book Forty-One in the Bible
#14, Isaiah 40:8, “The grass withers, the flower fade, but the word of our God remains forever.” (Old Testament Book Twenty -Three)
#15. 1 Peter 1:23, “God’s word is an incorruptible seed, which lives and abides forever.” (New Testament Book Twenty-One, Book Twenty -One. Book Sixty in the Bible)
Ephesians 6:10, "Be strong in the Lord and in the strength of God's might."
#16. Psalm 93:1, "The Lord is clothed in strength; indeed, the world is established, firm and secure. The Lords words, testimonies and statutes, Lord, stand firm."
#17, Isaiah 46:5-8,10, The Lord told the people, “Listen to me, you descendants of man, with whom do you compare me to and with whom do you count me equal to? I am equal to no man, remember this, keep it in mind, take it to heart, you rebels. Remember the former things, from long ago in the beginning I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. ‘My purpose will stand.” (Old Testament Book Twenty -Three)
#18, James 1:17 and 13. “The Father of light has no variation or shadow due to change. God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desires and enticements. (God however stays the same, God’s words, and instructions are final).” (New Testament Book Twenty. Book Fifty-Nine of the Bible.)
God Does Not Break God’s Covenants.
#19. Judges 2:1, The Lord said, “I will never break My covenant with you.” (Old Testament Book Seven)
#20. Psalm 89:34, The Lord said, “My covenant I will not violate, nor will I alter the utterance of My lips.” (Old Testament Book Nineteen.)
#21. Nehemiah 1:5, “O Lord God of heaven, the great and awesome God, who preserves the covenant and lovingkindness for those who love Him and keep His commandments.” (Old Testament Book Sixteen)
#22. Nehemiah 9:32, “Our God, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God, keeps God’s covenant with lovingkindness.” (Old Testament Book sixteen)
#23. Leviticus 26:9, The lord says, “I will confirm My covenant with you. You will still be eating last year’s harvest when you will have to move it out to make room for the new, and I will walk among you and be your God, and you will be my people.” (Old Testament Book Three)
#24. Psalm 105:8, “God remembers his covenant forever, the promise he made, for a thousand generations.” (Old Testament Book Nineteen)
#25. Psalm 119:160, “The sum of God’s word and statutes is truth, and every one of God’s righteous rules endures forever.” (Old Testament Book Nineteen)
#26. Galatians 1:9, “If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, they are accursed.” (New Testament Book Nine, Book Forty-Eight in the Bible)
#27. 1 Corinthians 1:9-10, “God is faithful (To God’s word).” I appeal to you, brothers and sisters, a in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly united in mind and thought.” (New Testament Book Seven, Book Forty-Six in the Bible)
#28. John 14:23, The Lord said. “If anyone loves Me, they will keep My word.” (New Testament Book Four, Book Forty-Three in the Bible)
#29, Isaiah 40:28 “”The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He does not faint or grow weary; his understanding is unsearchable.” (Old Testament Book Twenty -Three.)
God Does NOT LIE.
#30. Numbers 23:19, tells us, “God is not a man, that God should lie, nor is God a son of man, God makes good on God’s promises and instructions,”
#31. 1 Samuel 15:29, “God will not lie or change His mind; for God is not a man that God should change God’s mind.”
#32. Hebrews 6:18, This remains unchangeable it is impossible for God to lie, so that we might have a strong consolation, and refuge to lay hold of so we keep the hope that God set before us.”
#33. Deuteronomy 32:4, ““The Rock, God’s work is perfect, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he.”
#34. Romans 1:25, "Men changed the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator."
#35. Matthew 22:16, The Lords disciples said, “Teacher, we know that You are true and teach the way of God in truth; nor for you do not care about anyone, You do not regard the opinions of men.”
#36, Proverbs 12:22. “Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord, but those who act faithfully are God’s delight.”
To be faithful is to follow God’s first word in the beginning.
#37. 1 Corinthians 13:6, “God does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth.”
#38. Zechariah 8:17, “Do not devise evil in your hearts against one another, and love no false oath, for all these things I hate, declares the LORD.”
An oath is a sworn declaration of truth God made an oath to us that plants would be our ONLY food, but Men falsified that oath and sacrificed animals as meat.
#39. Zechariah 8:16, “These are the things that you shall do: Speak the truth to one another; render in your gates judgments that are true and make for peace.”
Meat does not make peace with God, nor does meat make peace with God’s animal creations, or God’s word, truth, instructions and plant-based diet.
our, Book Forty-Three in the Bible)our, Book Forty-Three in the Bible)
@@planetofthevegans880 Meat edits God’s final, unchangeable word in the Bible The Council of Nicaea are HUMAN Bishops, HUMAN Roman Emperors HUMAN Constantines and HUMAN Justinians, and Paul who is also a HuMAN BEING, they are NOT God, Meat is fake, Meat is not from God, meat is the corruption of God’s and Jesus Christ’s doctrine from the beginning. Do not follow the words and opinions of Human beings, follow God.
God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow, God's plant-based diet from the beginning is final and unchangeable, those who truly know God, are well aware that God does not undo what God has set into motion, God’s final, unchangeable, word, diet, truth, and instructions from the beginning lasts from generation to generation without interruption or end for it is eternal just as God is eternal. the word final means allowing no further doubt or dispute, the decision and judgment is complete and cannot be changed or appealed.
Where can we follow you Phillip?
I am not currently very active on social media, but I am currently setting up a new website and RUclips channel. I will let you know when I am active. I haven't really been active on my Wisdom's Table channel for some time, but I am considering resurrecting it.
@ thank you! You bring me hope.
Watched on my TV 📺, very interesting.
💚
As a christian who became vegan recently I never felt any sort of moral issues of if my faith and veganism would clash, to me it felt like a natrual progression. I am exploring priesthood too but feel like in my church at least, c of e, I have heard horror stories of ordanaids being kicked out of training college for having socialist, pacifist or vegan outlook, which worries me for the future of the church.
Thank you for the excellent conversation. I read that one of the fish stories was written decades after the death of Christ to boost membership in the Catholic church due to low numbers at the time. Could anyone share details on this?
Ouch David, that intro sequence is utterly brutal😬
But it’s good 😂
💚💚🌱🌱
Inspiring❤
Jesus is never said to eat the Passover lamb. He is the lamb, the last sacrifice. When Jesus fed his disciples 'fish' after his resurrection he is referring to the body of Christ being caught up into the unbreakable net which is in the father's hand. Once they ate they knew him again.
😂
No.
@ReverendDr.Thomas Why else would Jesus tell them to become fishers of men. To collect 'fish' for the body of Christ is the only reason.
If killing is called spirituality,
Then what is the face of brutality?
If a life-taker is loving and kind,
What is a murderer then defined?
If care means silencing a beating heart,
What rips the soul and tears it apart?
If kindness walks where suffering lies,
What name remains for pain and cries?
Oh, weigh these words, this fragile line,
Between the cruel and the divine.
@@knightofwangernumb2998 That's a really weird explanation! The fishing story was merely a parable to show Jesus wanted people to stop killing fish and instead start 'catching' souls of people for God. The body of Christ is a fundamentalist concept, it means nothing
I would ask this kind gentleman to please reconsider his opinion on the whole flood thing -- I believe it was largely an editorial insertion in order to blame God for "allowing" humans to start eating meat (for "survival.") I doubt there was a flood that took away all edible plants or even a Noah's ark, for that matter, because God would NEVER give permission for any such thing for any reason.
I too think the whole flood thing was nonsense. It makes no sense -- what did the animals eat without plants -- each other????? They would have gone extinct with everyone devouring each other. Silly story.
@@planetofthevegans880 Funny how applying simple common sense roots out the truth that no one questions - SO WHAT DID THE ANIMALS EAT THEN???
Why inflict suffering on animals when you can easily get everything you need from plants? Eating meat is just a habit.
That is the craziest thing like you said about the women too! Women in the church nowadays still have no power, and a lot of female pastors are looked down upon, but I always reiterate, who was there at Jesus‘s feet while he was crucified? The women!!! and like you said, the women always get it right And understand exactly what Jesus was trying to say and his truth
Killing is the part of the religion of death. However, the Creator is the El of the Living. Christianity may want to reexamine what they worship.
Funny enough, the idea of an immortal soul itself is taken from Greco-Roman philosophy, and was not present in Judaism. Judaism emphasizes bodily resurrection. The breath of life, or "Nepesh," is not a soul per se.
Did you know that Jesus taught reincarnation and that his followers continued to believe in it for almost 6 centuries A.D.? The concept was then ordered to be banned by Roman Emperor Justinian and the Bible was edited accordingly (replaced with eternal damnation & Hell)
Some angels have animal faces.
OOOh,,, have you met them?
@ can’t say for sure as the angels I’ve encountered were fully cloaked and while I know what their clothing looks like down to the stitching I can only speculate as to what they look like underneath.
What right do we have to kill any sentient being absolutely none period
🫂💚🙏
They are called slaughterhouses. Not sending them off to humane houses. So it’s weird how some people want to act like anything behind those closed doors is humane.
There is an inaccurate summary of the soul and historical philosophers. According to Aristotle and Aquinas, all living things have souls. There are different kinds of souls, and Aquinas said that only humans have eternal rational souls that will continue to exist after death. While Aquinas didn´t argue against using animals, it was René Descartes at the beginning of the modern era who claimed that plants and animals are like soulless machines. He was also a christian, but his philosophy doesn´t represent the christian theological tradition.
most people in history were simply ignorant of animals, but this ignorance was fueled primarily by survival. Hard to blame a species where killing animals is necessary for their survival.
David Rams
You should have an interview with a REAL scholar::
Dr. James Tabor, who played a BIG background part in the history of religion that were portrayed in CHRISTSPIRACY
He is a professor of Theology etc. knowing Greek/Hebrew
He will be able to give you a more clear understanding of the interpolations and mistranslations that appeared in the Bible (Torah/New Testament)
This vicar is a very nice person but its clear he doesnt have the historical knowledge that Dr. James Tabor has
I think “ what would Jesus do today ? “ would be more fruitful
I have been a vegan since 1994 and baptised as one of Jehovahs witnesses in 2003. As far as l know l am, the only JW vegan in my congregation. From my study of the Bible, lt seems Jesus did eat animals. The Bible says that after the flood, Jehovah allowed humans to kill animals for food. He also gave Adam and Eve and us free will to choose. It is this misuse of the freedom to choose that causes much suffering in the world. However, this freedom to do as we like is a temporary thing and there are beautiful scriptures that speak of the restored paradise where animals and people will live as in Eden. Sadly, the eating of animals and other abuses of animals is now deeply rooted in humans. I do not expect veganism to end such cruelty. Only Jehovah God can do that, and he will soon.
❤🌱
Are you taking notes from diary of a ceo with that intro? 🤔
Just keeping you on your toes
Basically he said all the same as dude from Christspiracy
I do know that Jesus represents Christ consciousness, a higher enlightened state of being. Therefore, we do not have more compassion and mercy for animals than Jesus! Jesus would not harm or eat animals, I have zero doubts because it’s in my heart which is not even at an enlightened state of consciousness. There are many references to Jesus stating these things in other scriptures unequivocally!
Don't worry about the label of "enlightenment." You have a good heart because you aren't a vampire who wants to feed on carcass
What about the quadrillion of sentient insets that are slowly poisoned for vegetable crops? Do their lives not matter? And before you say more crops are fed to animals, this has absolutely not been proven. Grass in pastures and crop-by products account for most animal nutrition.
Jesus goes to fish when they’re no plants
Please expand on this, it’s not quite clear you’re saying. Just so your point is not misconstrued.
How can we know? Its all irrelevant anyway, we dont need to force animals into slaughterhouses, and no holy book should be used as a justifcation for violence towards anyone.
@ a monk name trevrizent wouldn’t eat bloody meats a follower of the teachings of the Holy Grail … every step is a sacrifice as try not too. Was that sinful step ever a mistake…. As all sinful people become sinless, nothing you eat is more or less sinful
@ manufacturing books is toxic and unsustainable Jesus was to abolish money destroy all borders and private property, end all religious titles, gender norms, races, competition as we end poverty destroying social classes
@@John.AR.Activism Lies being spread and perpetuated are never irrelevant. They need to be cleared up. Jesus never killed fish or any other creature, did not steal bird's eggs or cow's milk, nor did God condone animal sacrifice or the exploitation of any animal whom He lovingly created with the same soul as humans.
Genesis 9:4
"But you are not to eat meat with blood in it. (Blood is life.)
It's nearly impossible to remove all the blood. It was meant more towards eating of bugs for sustenance, and not actual animals, although it was allowed for a time due to what the flood did to the landscape.
Pray that you are worthy to eat from the tree of life. The fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil opened our eyes to awesome possibilities. Look around you in this world. Pray for those who are in darkness.
I highly doubt the flood ever happened. It was just an excuse to blame God for "allowing" people to start eating animals. It makes no sense -- if there were no plants, what did the animals eat? They'd have gone extinct with everybody else eating them by the time the plants finally grew back. Oh, and there's no proof humans ever ate bugs either.
but the planet/nature can't handle any more human "fluency" ! i agree with much of what religion says- but the "god" /"heaven" concept is nuts- we are animals like all the others- totally reliable on healthy/diverse ecostystems- and death is a good thing since its the end of pain and its food for the living.
This is very helpful for all those little details and understanding regarding the ethical stance… However vegan -yes the most conducive to life but not necessarily for particularly women and human life production maybe because of how we’ve evolved we are able to live so much longer possibly due to the nutrients density - many women become anemic or lose their periods when they become vegan. I think it’s hard to get enough macro nutrients versus micro nutrients and plant fats only. ideally it would be lovely if we can get it all from naturebut I think X preparation $ and knowledge , often is what create unsustainability long-term , or seem daunting or threatening to the general population. I think greater impact would be focusing on minimizing as much as possible to the mass population ! Vs pressuring in some way idealistic ethical stance (people may automatically feel judged if they come up short ,100% and shamed (resentful at insinuation that they are a worse being if not ):(it can be a head trip:
You are starting out with the assumption that Jesus really existed, which is stupid. You are not even saying what evidence has convinced you that he really existed and is not just a totally made up character in a fairytale.
"Virtually all scholars of antiquity accept that Jesus was a historical figure, and the idea that Jesus was a mythical figure has been consistently rejected by the scholarly consensus as a fringe theory." - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus#:~:text=Virtually%20all%20scholars%20of%20antiquity,consensus%20as%20a%20fringe%20theory.
@@davidramms Why would that be a reason to believe Jesus really existed?
Also, you have presented your video as if it is an established fact that he really existed; as if ALL scholars of antiquity accept that he was a historical figure. Yet here you admit that it is not "all".
Dr. Richard Carrier has an article titled "List of Historians Who Take Mythicism Seriously" and currently there are 44 historians on that list. (By "mythicism" he means the belief that a historical Jesus never existed.) He says that this list features "only scholars with relevant PhDs". I won't attempt to post a link to it here, as that will probably prevent my comment from being published, so if you want to read it you will have to do a search for that title and author.
3:44 So he’s vegan because of how much he values dogs? And he finally related pigs to dogs? Every verse in the Bible abt dogs is negative, look up dog attacks, dogs have k!lled and permanently disfigured so many innocent ch!ldren! How inhumane can one be towards Jesus precious little ones.
Religion is BS. People are as good as they are. Being a man of god doesn’t mean shit, and they are just as sensitive to feeling criticism as anyone else. And my experience is that a lot of people have strong reactions against veganism because they deep down know not being vegan is less ethical. And in comes the cognitive dissonance and mental gymnastics to defend their feeling of moral high ground.
Just to be clear, I don’t care much if people are religious. I just don’t think it means anything.
I have meet religious people that legit follows what the books teaches. They are against greed, they help people in need, they accept people regardless of their sexuality and so on. And than the complete opposite exist as well.
It depends what you define as "religion." In order to spiritually evolve, we need to progress beyond organized religion and atheism, as both are equally close-minded and limited. Open your mind to all possibilities.
@@harveyplantharvester1502 Sure, show me some evidence and I am happy to change my mind. But any form of faith based belief is willingly inviting stupidiy to live in your head.
Well said.
Most "christians" don't read the Bible. The eating of animal flesh wasn't part of the original plan. Both man and animals were vegan. The same will be true with the new heavens and new earth. Most "Christians" do not want accept the fact that the original diet is the best for them and want to continue a life of worldly convenience.
Nehme dein Christentum von mir weg und gib mir mein Jesus zurück.
Eden wus purfict and *VEGUN* . intu đis wurld Adam was made whu was purfict đerfor *VEGAN*
Jesus told follows tu be 'purfict' - which NESUSIRILI ment being as you wur in Edun ie vegan.
Unfortunitli Jesus himself was born intu a fallen wurld and was not purfict ie he ET animals.
Thank god for Roman nails.
Jesusism is a killer..