The issue I see is that it's a matter of this build being situational, whereas the Deadeye build is not. It's always going to be better and that's a problem. Secondary BBs deserve to have their slice of cake too. Heck, when there's only one line of ships devoted to secondaries on BBs, shouldn't they be given fair treatment?
boy ... I know it doesnt happen often but when storm comes and visibility goes to 8km for majority of game ... and you have no fire prevention and you are deadeye BB ... you will totally get clapped ;). I know. ..that is rare situation yet still insanely funny when all those Thunderers with exposed citadels must get into 8km range with GK which cannot be citadeled and his secondaries all pen 32mm of Thunderer.
@@Mario-kf3ej That's fine and all, but when you have to rely on a specific in-game event to make your situational build work, that doesn't fix the problem at hand. If anything, that just goes to show how bad it is. If the build is good, that event should make it shine, not bring it 'up to par'.
If WG buffs the secondaries back up to their old values, they would be usable again, and they made it a point to let people know they do not condone secondary brawling playstyles. They support long range sniping and HE spam, annoying gunboat destroyers and CV's, everything else can go to hell for all WG cares.
I love brawling too but as you state the sacrifices to have a “viable” set of skills just needs your survival whereas Deadeye has almost no cost to your survival since it’s one skill. Without a nerf to survival for taking dead eye or a buff to survival baked into the secondary skills it’s just not worth it.
They are not trying to balance things. They see what people use most, and nerf it. That's their idea of 'variety', even thou bb's now have only one viable build choice now.
Yea im playing repu with them and Holy shit i can use secondarys 1 on 10 battles, i expect ppl tell me to Play surv and i did but i wasn't live longer than with secondarys
I really commend your motivation to still play this game in the current meta. I've become so disgusted with what they've done that i've stopped playing it. It's not worth the frustration or the burn out. :)
I only take the secondary accuracy on my German BBs...because they get the 1/4 HE pen. So I run CE, FP, and secondary accuracy...and not deadeye. Because I am usually not outside my concealment range...and I want to be more of a tanky build rather than a quick DPM output. I play the German ships as positional blocks on the enemy. Less about getting quick kills and more about denying the enemy positioning. Your point about island positioning is spot on. You want to force the enemy to be in a position where they have to wonder if coming out will be punished. For the US, French, and Japanese BBs, I will probably only run the secondary range...but go with the standard tank build plus DeadEye...because all I want is something to scare off DDs. I don't need better accuracy, because I am still relying on main gun damage rather than the secondary guns. For the British and Russians...I will probably not take any secondary build. Just because they just don't have the secondary firepower.
I really love the fully dedicated to IFHE secondaries Pommern. The only ships you lose against are Torp DDs, that you can't open. They stay hidden and torp you to death and you mostly dont have a clue where they are do to the missing RFP skill. Other than that, you win every brawl in a 1 vs. 1 - but we all know, that's too situational and people already know, the Pommern is very dangerous, if you get close, so they avoid getting close or even within 12km... A nice side effect of this build is: My winrate in this ship after 200 battles with it is 55% - usually hard to keep after 100 or more battles. So pushing caps really helps the team, while camping at the border loses games. 2nd good sideeffect: You know, you will win that fight, when any ship gets in your secondary range and stays there, no matter how often he hits you with fire (fireprevention is skilled) or any hard hits... you definitely outdamage him (you get like 300 hits in no time = 45-50K damage: reload on secondaries = 2.3 and 5.1 w/o AR active) But of course, this comes with the downside of less durability - but its doable, skipping the concealment (you are mostly visible anyway, when you get close to the cap, but Isle-hopping is the key) On the downside, it can be very frustrating, if the enemy team consists mostly of HE spamming islehuggers... then you wish you are sitting at the border, eating popcorn, while sniping with deadeye...
Yup. DDs are virtually immune to secondaries now. And we give up SO much survivability to get decent secondary fire now that we're a much easier target to kill.
It's interesting to try and build for secondaries while preserving concealment and being able to use Dead Eye. I have Lutjens at 18 points so I have a ways to go. Dead Eye without CE is pointless, so that's an automatic 8 points. Not much left after that, so at the moment it's all in for secondaries. It's fun in co-op but a death sentence in Random. With the Americans I've just given up on secondary builds. Massa is actually quite good in an accuracy/tank build (extra range and a spotter plane), and Georgia is just amazing. Her dispersion is the best of all the ships I have, and that includes Thunderer.
Do you have Arizona... ?? That ones got sick Accuracy and deletes cruisers like the "old days". Bajie is absolutely amazing now. Its probably the best sniper due to incredible shell velocity and 2.1 sigma along with better long range Pen than Yamato. Im still getting used to her but shes quite capable of 50k dmg salvos at 25km ish range ... I see 5 of 9 shells or more typically from 25km. The shell velocity makes it better aonger ranges. I suspect KII might also be Amazing woth Deadeye too... its guns are great but Trolly, I think Deadeye KII might be best in tier... Overall I rate Bajie higher tham Musashi now for sniping. Its a badass. Missouri now feels like the OG Missouri, I see a lot more Citadels since 10.0. All in all I like the change. HE spam is less prominent now... it makes middle play very risk/reward focused &it makes camping dangerous risk/reward. Me=happy Games new again
I don't agree with taking 2ndary accuracy skill for following reasons : 1. After buff to German secondary accuracy and with flag + module you can get acceptable accuracy. 2. Skill that gives you 10% buff to secondary reload is ... kinda buff to accuracy in terms you will be shooting more shells = you will be landing more , obviously. Extra buff to main gun reload is significant and pushes such GK from 29 seconds to 26.1 pre adrenaline rush - that is really scary. This ship still got 12 x 406mm guns , no joke here. 3. Accuracy doesnt work if you dont pick target (aka someone pops in range and you are for example shooting someone else 15km away on the other side with main guns etc.) and right now works only on 1 target and your secondaries can AND will shoot multiple targets ... so combining point 1 and especially point 2 ... you may be actually landing less shells ... with accuracy skill ! Because extra reload works unconditionally on both sides and for main guns. Seriously that skill for 2ndary reload and main gun reload is SUBSTANTIALLY better in 95% of scenarios than accuracy skill for 2ndaries. Tested this out and ... reload buff shines insanely well in close distances like 5km where accuracy doesnt matter anymore , but reload to all weapons DOES. But even at max range it is better.
You can theoretically do a Sniper Brawler Hybrid Build. Two polar opposite playstyles in to one ship. Dead eye for sniping ships from a distance and if someone dares to get close to you, they will melt from your secondaries. I hope you can test this theory out :D
A good buff for secondaries could be in merging the range and accuracy skills into one 4 point skill that way you can actually take some of the tanky skills out there. One more thing they can add to manual secondaries skill is the ability to lock your rear turrets to a different sector or target, that way you can actually use all of your guns when pushing in, like some sort of mechanic similar to manual secs, where you would select a target for your rear turrets to point at and ignore the front turret rotation. Another nice buff would be AA range increase on the skill that increases your secondaries range, where ships like Pommern can get up to 6.6 or even 7k range on AA since half of your secondaries are multi purpose anyway.
I'm a KM BB fan and have ended up with basically the same build. Conceal / Deadeye / ManSec. The offensive skills seem more necessary, and in 0.10.0 you're taking more damage when you are spotted than you were before (Deadeye / DPM skills on enemy ships), which makes islands and concealment control even more critical. On the BBs with natural 32mm pen, I've been experimenting with Grease the Gears since it's now percentage-based and arguably offers greater benefit on already-fast turrets. Wondering what your thoughts are on GtG for brawlers. I see it as a soft effective DPM increase, since you can get some shots out you normally wouldn't, and it can be useful in brawling situations, especially when managing multiple targets.
i hate it how one of their justifications for reducing secondary accuracy, is that BFT now gives 10% main battery reload, even though BFT most of the times was one of the skills people skipped out on to make their build for flexibile, so every time you want to make a secondary build that does not have BFT you're missing out on apparently one of the main selling points of secondary builds.
Hi PQ, what I find as a pretty functional build for GK in ranked (with 18pt Lutjens, so same as you almost :D) is this: 1 Loader 2 Turret traverse (b.o. Lutjens) 3 Secondary range +20% 4 Fire prevention, better reload, new superintendant It works pretty good (and wouldn´t in random of course). The reason is that even with all the concealment you are 14,6 spotted, and that is a lot. Without it it´s like 16.2, which isn´t that bad (or that gain) for 4 points. Fire prevention is huge improvement against Thunderers and such things, extra heal PLUS EXTRA DURATION of heals helps mitigate some decent damage through the game (and it mattered many battles I played) and the reload is nasty :D It is not about secondaries, but after you get ANY visible ship in your secondary range (=12,5 km), you fire 10% faster even with your main battery guns - best thing for brawling (and kind of dead eye in reverse). And in ranked there is half the game someone in that range if you position yourself correctly, especially on most of maps in this season. I would like to know your opinion on this. And yes, for last 3 points I probably will add adrenaline rush to the menu :)
Pre-10.0, secondary battleships built for hybrid survival-secondaries, forgoing Concealment Expert in order to take Fire Prevention along with ATF and Manual Secs. Because Dead Eye is so powerful in 10.0, secondary battleships now give up survival to be hybrid Dead Eye-secondary battleships, taking concealment along with Dead Eye and dropping all survival. This puts them in a much worse spot. On top of this, secondary battleships lose a heal (old Superintendent) which is something they could get in the old skills with a full 19-point hybrid survival-secondary captain. Final kick in the teeth, the one survival skill they can take in 10.0 (Basics of Survivability) has to be traded against another must-have skill; Adrenaline Rush. ''Normal'' battleships have had to make no sacrifices. They can still take a vital survival skill like Fire Prevention, along with concealment which they have always taken and then take Dead Eye. They can even keep Adrenaline Rush. All this for 18 points. With 21 points they can take Basics of Survivability and further increase survivability. Literally the only thing they have ''sacrificed'' is 1 heal from old Superintendent, and it is not like they need it now because they are sniping from further back and less exposed to incoming fire. ''Normal'' battleships will be far stronger with a 21 point captain. The battleship that actually needs to be tanky, the secondary BB, is essentially cut off from building for any survival if it wants to be relevant. Meanwhile the J1 snipers are the ones that can build for maximum 20km survival. Its a terrible skill rework that has totally shafted secondary battleships. If secondary battleships were memes in 9.12, they're now Vine clips.
When it comes to German tech tree Bismarck and F.D.G. have more aggressive secondary even without the reload for 4 captain points on them. G.K is not good ship for secondary builds tried it ... in tier X never got even close to use them.. and sure it was before 0.10 but tier X is not where you use secondary build cause everything has massive range and by the time you close distance you get pommeled by torpedoes with range of 17km or planes and Germany has apparently never heard of a decent AA... The Best spot or sweet spot for secondary builds is tier VIII/IX so Bismarck Tirpitz Pommern F.D.Grose these are the ships to go with... Gneisenau and Scharnhorst do now have 9 km range if you go secondary build but since you can end up going against ships of Tier IX it is suicidal so I do not recommend it... The use of islands is important I cannot argue about that but everyone who used to do secondary builds knew that you have to wait at first support the team from range and in the middle of the match start to move in for brawls... Look the secondary builds are never going to be your primary point of damage based on my testing in the testing rooms it took around 224 shells from secondary hits to kill a tier VIII or IX ship and the further you were from the enemy the worse the dispersion was the closer you get the better it is but training room is not the same as when the enemy citadels you from 11km cause you wanted to light up the sky like on 4th of July. Secondary builds have a place but it's more just for people who prefer not to build their BB's to shoot from 27km range all over the map so it's a personal preference... I personally love using them and I hate that certain nations like US have their whole secondary builds behind premium but what can a wo/man do these days...
Yeah, you have to make painful choices. AA has also fallen victim to the split of basic/advanced firing training skills. When you made a full secondary build, that also fave you AA. Or in case of Halland, it gave you reload on your main guns. Now, if you try to make some hybrid build, take some secondary skills, some tanking skills, than you have no points left for AA
I think a good way to buff secondary bbs would be to change he pen requirements, like give secondary bbs armour that makes enemy ships only he pen armour that is 1/8 of the the gun caliber so they don't get melted by thunderers, smolensks, etc etc.
It's another cash grab by Wargamming. E...V...E...R...Y...B...O...D...Y is taking the Dead Eye Captain skill. What'll happen is Wargamming will take the perverbal nerf hammer to it, everybody will say wow this captain skill isn't good anymore, and will reset their captain skills. But here's the catch it costs doubloons to reset captain skills. Not right now but it will and it will cost more than before the captain skill change. It's all part of the plan, mark my words.
Running secondaries in my Massa for ranked has been an exercise in futility plus DDs’ running Dazzle makes dispersion even worse and the clever DDs can go undetected to reset the Dazzle skill too.
As one of your honest follower, I think you should just give dead eye and concealment in this build. I use full secondary build for pommern these days, and get sec+fire damage for more than 50k at least, sometimes 90k. You should really go for this and have fun.
I feel the issue is the following: On main-batterly ranged BBs: "You get a ship that works already as sniper, and use your Commanderskills to imrpove it". On secondary brawlers: "You get a ship that neither works as sniper nor as brawler, and you use your commanderskills to make it work". Thats kinda the reason why it will always be less efficient. To my mind, they need to rethink the pricing for the secondary build. How is 35% dispersion on secondaries as valuable as 10% dispersion for snipers? How is 10% reload on secondaries more valuable then 10% radar duration on cruisers? Makes no sense. you need tons of commander skills to make the secondary brawlerbuild somehow work. and still you will be less tanky then a thunderer sitting at 25km because you dont have spare points to get the tanky stuff that you actually need more then the snipers. At least the american ones seem stronger to me now over all. As 4-pointers i run deadeye, concealment and healbuff. No brawler, no manual secondaries. But that way, you have a ship, that is absolutely viable fighting on range or on a flank at the start. especially massa or georgia. This way you are very useful and very much a threat, while you wait for some enemies to die and for the opportunity to engage. When engaging, you still have 11,3km secondaries wich will do some damage and set some fires. even though, its without manual secondaries and brawler skill.
Honestly, I'm happy with the secondary performance since the patch. Your secondaries now firing on both sides without you having to mark one ship first is a good trade in my opinion and Now you don't have any situations anymore in which a secondary that could fire at an enemy doesn't shoot. I also think that the lesser Accuracy is not that bad since there still enough shells hitting and as you said in the beginning I feel the same too about those shells hitting dealing more damage.
Yeah, honestly the problem is if you’ve ever got enemy ships on both sides of you within secondary range, more often than not it’s a sign you’re in TROUBLE. It shouldn’t happen very often.
i had 4 games in Kurfürst since the update and 2 of them in close brawl with like 130k dmg with like 45% of secondary damage with fire. the other 2, without any close brawl with like 25% of secondary damage with fire. a secondary build seems still pretty solid to me
I think tier 8 and 9 German battleships benefit the most from the commander rework because of the much more affordable ifhe and the buff on the range and native accuracy of their secondaries. However, ships like Shikishima and Alsace are much less effective than they were before
My Kii is secondary specced, ranked and random. Doing well. with flag i have 10km range with secondaries, same as torps. Torps are my finishing move. I like the new 10.0, i'm one of the few secondary specs for BBs now. Always interesting at least.
I've been taking completely the opposite angle. I take CQC, Repair Expert, Fire Prevention with my four point skills and then with the threes I've been taking secondary range and swapping back and forth between testing Adrenaline Rush and the one for fire/flooding time same as you. Losing Dead Eye when I push up to eliminate the enemy Dead Eye feels less fun than only turning off the enemy perk instead of trading. Losing the accuracy is unfortunate, but I honestly feel like it doesn't help at all against DDs and the other classes are large enough that it doesn't make a huge difference. Please do try it out and get back to me. I would love to hear your opinion, and/or that of the community, on the setup.
Does the Pom get the 12.5km secondaries also? That's kinda unfair, considering USN is still stuck with the old 11.3km. I mean, if they are gonna nerf accuracy like that, then give the increased ranged equally for all secondary build ships.
idk... I think dropping the 10% concealment and deadeye for fire prevention and extra heal, is worth a try could try trading the manual targeting for the reload...with the idea that more shells in the air means an equalization of damage. but I doubt it's better than manual. Unless of course you forget to manual target....
It turned out to be more like, "these ships can still kinda, sorta work without functional secondaries, but you take the skill to make yourself think you have secondaries and try a brawling style of play, pray, get lucky and hope for the best". This video pretty much further confirmed that secondaries are completely dead and unusable. It mostly showed that Georgia, Pommern and Tirpitz can work well with deadeye... the secondaries didn't do this in all his examples. Barely hit, did nothing against destroyers.
My 50% WR is is going to die on the full secondary build hill. I cannot entertain taking concealment or deadeye on my German BBs! This is why I'm bad at the game, but damn do I have fun. Someone has to feed players like you anyway!
Okay, so what about mid and lower tier ships? Secondary Amagi or NC? PEF at tier 6 seems fun with 8.7km range. Now lower tier ships get +35% accuracy of secondaries, instead of 15% previously
I spect my max pt capt gunther on my bis in IFHE full secondary then compensated with flags and it turned it into a absolute minigun of devistation during ranked... I reached a 87% win rate and easily reached rank 1 in 9 games! Just make sure you angle properly and you’ll be VERY successful!....9Happy hunting friends!
Hey, he made a video about Scharnhorst late last week and discussed the Gneisenau in it briefly. He actually said Gneis was even better than Scharn but you would build them very similarly. It's a good vid.
I still brawl with my Scharnhorst about 3 out of 5 games in random but I have to hold back until the red team pushes or half the match if over then I counter push. I'm holding on buying a Mass until the end. Hoping they change secondaries.
The problem, is secondaries accuracy. Even in a controlled testing environment, with the same tests applied, and the SAME builds, the actual hitrate difference between a battleship with improved -40% dispersion and one without amounts to only like 10% better hitrate...against a BATTLESHIP. Imagine DDs with Dazzling's +20% dispersion? Both sides mean nothing, because the non-targeting side doesn't get a boost. Improved Secondary Battery Aiming NEEDS a buff to AT LEAST -50% dispersion in order to be worth taking for 4 points.
31:36 Really? I always thought "eat on torp belt, its less damage, and if it hits the bow or stern it causes floods" Thanks for the tip, I'll use that in game
Do I misunderstand or something while you said CE with Deadeye? Deadeye activate when no visible enemy ship within base concealment range (~16km), so if you get spotted or not it still doesn't matter, the problem is enemy get spotted or not. Even you take CE and spot enemy BB first, you still probably lose Deadeye.
secondaries seem the same tbh, i still manage when i play Bismarck to activate the special commander talent just the same as before. Still getting lots of close combat awards, doesnt seem to be much of change apart from a range increase which doesnt make a difference as they dont hit much at 12km anyway.
I think the reason why you are getting more damage on these secondary BBs is a lot of your opponents will not have fire prevention or superintendent because of the existence of dead eye.
Id actually say try paying attention to how they do against destroyers. With GK and its goal of brawling, secondaries used to be fantastic as the inevitable close encounters with DDs it would really hurt them. When I tried since the patch, even with full manual the hit rate was so low it was usually negligible damage. For battleship on battleship fights, the secondaries aren't as good as they used to be, but still have effect regardless with such a large target and fires. I personally changed skills away from secondaries for that reason. Being mostly only useful against other battleships, and current gameplay making it hard to get near one to begin with..... just isnt worth it to me anymore. Not like dead-eye, which produces a noticeable improvement and makes the main guns far more effective at range.
"You cannot yolo in and expect to do well" anymore, is what you are saying. Sorry, but so far yoloing in quite always was the fastest ticket back to the port. I agree with all the points you are making about the nerfs to close range fighters and at the same time encouraging the so-much-beloved long range camping. But the rushing in Bismarck - the yellow turreted one, you know :) - that died within 4 minutes into the game and then whining for no support and noob team and all, just because she couldnt handle all the opposition alone, is a common feature in WOWS since Bismarck was introduced, I think. On a sidenote, one might argue that the ship class meant to counter all those dead eyes should be the one you consider not to belong in the game at all.
The CQC skill, is just not worth it imo. The only times you benefit from the faster reload is those opportunities to brawl, which tenss to be mid to late game. Deadeye is useful at all stages of a match, whereas the 2ndary skills require you to wait until its harder to influence the game. However if you skip 2ndary accuracy, then use the reload skill as your main dmg source. So either Deadeye 2ndary and CE, or Deadeye, CQC and CE. Though Manual might be worse simply because of DDs taking Dazzle; even if you target them with 2ndaries, there's 15 secs that your 2ndaries are going to shoot as if you didn't hav the accuracy bonus.
I went ar(3p)+range(3p)+fp(4p)+reload(4p). When I reach 21 (so probably never lol) I'll get manual sec(4p). It's a Scharn/Bis captain, probably not for GK.
right on brother, was my favorite ship in the game. played it the most, after the rework, tried a couple of times, and haven't touched it since. It's just a dead port queen right now :( so sad
Hmm why is the damage done by secondaries not shown in the post battle statistics screen? That would objectively show whether they're still viable or just a fireworks show... O . o
Its a great ship, Very unique because those 38 knot speed runs let you get gins into places people don't expect OR reposition quickly enough to change the tide of battles. Very unique ship. Definitely worth it if sneaking around at high speed and blapping people sounds like fun
I don't play German bbs anymore just because it's so frustrating... My main guns don't deal that much dmg and my sec hits nothing... The only sec ships I am playing are the American and honestly: for me they work very good... I struggle sometimes bec I end up dieing alone but mostly my average dmg on Georgia and Ohio are about 130k and furthermore they are fun to me... Ohio mainly in Ranked but Georgia destroys on tier 9 haha. Just had a 333k game yesterday =0
So what I'm getting out of this is wargaming has made secondaries fire with more "realism"? According to a US Naval college study during ww2: "Even with a talented crew of gunners the accuracy of a ship's main guns was only about 32% at 9 miles (14.4km) against a battleship-sized target". Those studies were generally done in a controlled environment on a static target, not one in battle maneuvering to evade incoming fire, so one can assume the accuracy in a combat situation is even less than 30%. Sounds interesting though, might be worth reinstalling again sometime..
Hey Potato Quality, can you tell me, what skin you use on the GK? I want to buy this ship anyways, but this skin looks awesome. Btw thanks for this guide, I'll try it soon ^^
@@leonidascaesar2910 Lol yep. You can think of it like you're turning the GK into a premium. You would have to really love it to pay that amount for a skin when you already have the ship, though.
@@kelsealawrenson7188 Just had my first match and have to say this ship is really fun to play. Just hold your position and use your heavy broadside. If any enemy is stupid enough to push you, they just die to your secondaries :D
10.0 - fkd up the game big time! They made changes, because they wanted to bring more variety to the game, but this flipped over pretty much. We still have mandatory skills what we simply cannot skip out, and not enough points left for the rest.
For me sec builds are done. Main guns get such a huge buff thanks to dead eye , that even going main gun build on germans is more worth it. Played like 7 games of fully specced sec germans since patch. Max amount of sec hits was 54/450 shots fired. Just not worth it. Below 5 km you can hit Cruisers and BBs but not DDs really. Above 5km only slow moving / big BBs or almost stationary/stationary cruisers. I never rushed in headless, I always try to play to help the team and I wont force myself into sec range.. But i had many engagements at 6-8km range and secs did not help at all. For the first time in my entire wows "career" i switched off of secondaries on all my german BBs, and it actually made me very sad.
Perspective from someone who wasnt playing for a long time and started just recently again. Secondaries are worlds better than they were 2 years ago. And what I saw from before the patch looked pretty stupid to me. I personaly like the current system.
Last night in my Republic... 709 secondary shells fired.. 97 hits. In GK 750 fired, 120 hits. Compared to what it was before... These stats are appalling. Since rework only 3 secondary kills.. I used to get 1 a game. It sucks.
It sounded like you're saying the accuracy of secondaries have been nerfed, but in the patchnotes they said they buffed the accuracy and range of german secondaries. Direct quote from the patch notes: "Secondary battery accuracy has been increased [by 15% - ]"
Yes but there has been a global nerf on the "manual secondaries" captain upgrade that results in all secondaries being worse than they were last patch.
I plan to ignore buffing dispersion of the secondary's and go for the range and rate of fire since it buffs the main battery, with AR at 50% health and in secondary range, that's 20% better rof. Deadeye just isn't how I like to play, makes the game way to boring and places the BBs out of position. If it isn't for a rof buff secondary build is a complete waste, so trying to make them more accurate is kinda pointless.
My question is how are German BBs still viable at all? The dispersion on my Bismarck is so insanely bad that I essentially HAVE TO close the distance to under 15km in order to hit anything. And with secondaries kicking it at 11.5km, it feels like a waste of damage potential not to go with a secondaries build. German BB dispersion is so bad at long distance that even Dead Eye isn't enough to make sniping work... You basically have to come close range or else you are just sailing behind the lines and not hitting anything, and your only contribution to the team is not getting killed. Boring af....
They've literally SOLD bb's ON THE STRENGTH of their secondaries being VIABLE to build for. I bought mass and tirp BECAUSE of it. Now they've reneged on that advertisement point. What the fuck is the use of mass now? We can't get the extra dispersion module, that's only t9 and t10 american bb's, so what the fuck is up with mass? Shit dispersion on shit caliber with /meh aa, no torp protection to speak of, no turtle back....what exactly is mass' thing now, simply it's fast heal cooldown? Whoopty fuckin' do, I wouldn't have spent 60 bucks on that piece of absolute floating garbage if not for the secondaries build being viable. At least tirp has torps, mass is totally 100% GARBAGE now. Would RATHER be in the tech tree ship and have 60 bucks in my pocket, since it's now the same fucking ship anyway.
Massachusetts has 46% torpedo protection, that's hardly no torp protection to speak of, that's some of the best in the game. Shit caliber? The 406mm are only beaten by the 410s on Amagi at t8, which gives no advantage whatsoever, especially when the Americans get SHS AP with superior pen only lost to the Russians, like anything in this game. AA isn't worth mentioning, all ships have shit AA now, this is nothing new.
Despite having no turtleback, she has an underwater citadel that is very hard to hit, plus good bow armor( I think). You can put deadeye on her to fix her dispersion problem,and the secondaries are a nice bonus.
@@harrycrab1677 She's a secondary that can be cited by 132mm shells without being perfect broadside, and has just had her secondaries completely gutted. It's cit is NOT underwater, and it's barely protected, and compared to the constant t10's your going to face in her non stop, her deck armor is worse than basic. Glad you like the ship, but your opinion of her armor and accuracy are all off base from what you actually get in game, and theen there's the secondaries themselves. 90% of the reason to get this ship. And they just had their accuracy nerfed by over 30%, and a full secondary build now requires you to sac too much survivability to really make it work other than situationally, and only in randos.
They aren't 35% accurate, the exact hit rate depends on the distance to the target, as well as the size of the target. You probably misunderstood the skill that makes secondaries 35% more accurate when locked on target. Or, well, it actually improves them more than that, but that's the percentage that the skill gives you.
Today i did range mod, concealment n disperion build on a GK well i did 3 citadel on yamato at 25km range n in same match i did 4 citadel on thunderer at 22km n also same match i did 2 citadel to a kremlin at 23km so i think its the best bb i ever cud have asked for n also yes i had dead eye equiped how else am gonna do all that lol
The issue I see is that it's a matter of this build being situational, whereas the Deadeye build is not. It's always going to be better and that's a problem. Secondary BBs deserve to have their slice of cake too. Heck, when there's only one line of ships devoted to secondaries on BBs, shouldn't they be given fair treatment?
boy ... I know it doesnt happen often but when storm comes and visibility goes to 8km for majority of game ... and you have no fire prevention and you are deadeye BB ... you will totally get clapped ;). I know. ..that is rare situation yet still insanely funny when all those Thunderers with exposed citadels must get into 8km range with GK which cannot be citadeled and his secondaries all pen 32mm of Thunderer.
@@Mario-kf3ej That's fine and all, but when you have to rely on a specific in-game event to make your situational build work, that doesn't fix the problem at hand. If anything, that just goes to show how bad it is. If the build is good, that event should make it shine, not bring it 'up to par'.
If WG buffs the secondaries back up to their old values, they would be usable again, and they made it a point to let people know they do not condone secondary brawling playstyles.
They support long range sniping and HE spam, annoying gunboat destroyers and CV's, everything else can go to hell for all WG cares.
"Love the Vids Potato"
"Then stop playing Thunderer"
Got a good chuckle out of me 4:37
I love brawling too but as you state the sacrifices to have a “viable” set of skills just needs your survival whereas Deadeye has almost no cost to your survival since it’s one skill. Without a nerf to survival for taking dead eye or a buff to survival baked into the secondary skills it’s just not worth it.
"Secondary BBs are broken" was said ever by who? And they had to nerf them like this, ffs
They are not trying to balance things. They see what people use most, and nerf it. That's their idea of 'variety', even thou bb's now have only one viable build choice now.
@@conandude76 cuz secondary bb's were more used than HE spammer ships sure...
@@LeMrAlpaca On the mass, gk and tirp, yes.
probobly dd players who got spoted in ther fire range
@@kephryccephryc863 Dds did not like my secondary specced CV's :)
PQ: I wanna make secondaries work in this game
WG: Well good luck comrade
"Random Battles is not where you want to be with a secondary build right now." - Yep. :-/
Like most of the player base is playing rank...
Yea im playing repu with them and Holy shit i can use secondarys 1 on 10 battles, i expect ppl tell me to Play surv and i did but i wasn't live longer than with secondarys
I really commend your motivation to still play this game in the current meta. I've become so disgusted with what they've done that i've stopped playing it. It's not worth the frustration or the burn out. :)
I only take the secondary accuracy on my German BBs...because they get the 1/4 HE pen. So I run CE, FP, and secondary accuracy...and not deadeye. Because I am usually not outside my concealment range...and I want to be more of a tanky build rather than a quick DPM output. I play the German ships as positional blocks on the enemy. Less about getting quick kills and more about denying the enemy positioning. Your point about island positioning is spot on. You want to force the enemy to be in a position where they have to wonder if coming out will be punished.
For the US, French, and Japanese BBs, I will probably only run the secondary range...but go with the standard tank build plus DeadEye...because all I want is something to scare off DDs. I don't need better accuracy, because I am still relying on main gun damage rather than the secondary guns.
For the British and Russians...I will probably not take any secondary build. Just because they just don't have the secondary firepower.
I really love the fully dedicated to IFHE secondaries Pommern. The only ships you lose against are Torp DDs, that you can't open. They stay hidden and torp you to death and you mostly dont have a clue where they are do to the missing RFP skill. Other than that, you win every brawl in a 1 vs. 1 - but we all know, that's too situational and people already know, the Pommern is very dangerous, if you get close, so they avoid getting close or even within 12km...
A nice side effect of this build is: My winrate in this ship after 200 battles with it is 55% - usually hard to keep after 100 or more battles. So pushing caps really helps the team, while camping at the border loses games. 2nd good sideeffect: You know, you will win that fight, when any ship gets in your secondary range and stays there, no matter how often he hits you with fire (fireprevention is skilled) or any hard hits... you definitely outdamage him (you get like 300 hits in no time = 45-50K damage: reload on secondaries = 2.3 and 5.1 w/o AR active)
But of course, this comes with the downside of less durability - but its doable, skipping the concealment (you are mostly visible anyway, when you get close to the cap, but Isle-hopping is the key)
On the downside, it can be very frustrating, if the enemy team consists mostly of HE spamming islehuggers... then you wish you are sitting at the border, eating popcorn, while sniping with deadeye...
I rather have acurate shells to deal with small targets. I dont need secondaries to sink curfurst, there are main guns for this job.
Yup. DDs are virtually immune to secondaries now. And we give up SO much survivability to get decent secondary fire now that we're a much easier target to kill.
It's interesting to try and build for secondaries while preserving concealment and being able to use Dead Eye. I have Lutjens at 18 points so I have a ways to go. Dead Eye without CE is pointless, so that's an automatic 8 points. Not much left after that, so at the moment it's all in for secondaries. It's fun in co-op but a death sentence in Random.
With the Americans I've just given up on secondary builds. Massa is actually quite good in an accuracy/tank build (extra range and a spotter plane), and Georgia is just amazing. Her dispersion is the best of all the ships I have, and that includes Thunderer.
Do you have Arizona... ?? That ones got sick Accuracy and deletes cruisers like the "old days".
Bajie is absolutely amazing now. Its probably the best sniper due to incredible shell velocity and 2.1 sigma along with better long range Pen than Yamato. Im still getting used to her but shes quite capable of 50k dmg salvos at 25km ish range ... I see 5 of 9 shells or more typically from 25km.
The shell velocity makes it better aonger ranges.
I suspect KII might also be Amazing woth Deadeye too... its guns are great but Trolly, I think Deadeye KII might be best in tier...
Overall I rate Bajie higher tham Musashi now for sniping. Its a badass.
Missouri now feels like the OG Missouri, I see a lot more Citadels since 10.0.
All in all I like the change. HE spam is less prominent now... it makes middle play very risk/reward focused &it makes camping dangerous risk/reward.
Me=happy
Games new again
I don't agree with taking 2ndary accuracy skill for following reasons :
1. After buff to German secondary accuracy and with flag + module you can get acceptable accuracy.
2. Skill that gives you 10% buff to secondary reload is ... kinda buff to accuracy in terms you will be shooting more shells = you will be landing more , obviously. Extra buff to main gun reload is significant and pushes such GK from 29 seconds to 26.1 pre adrenaline rush - that is really scary. This ship still got 12 x 406mm guns , no joke here.
3. Accuracy doesnt work if you dont pick target (aka someone pops in range and you are for example shooting someone else 15km away on the other side with main guns etc.) and right now works only on 1 target and your secondaries can AND will shoot multiple targets ... so combining point 1 and especially point 2 ... you may be actually landing less shells ... with accuracy skill ! Because extra reload works unconditionally on both sides and for main guns.
Seriously that skill for 2ndary reload and main gun reload is SUBSTANTIALLY better in 95% of scenarios than accuracy skill for 2ndaries. Tested this out and ... reload buff shines insanely well in close distances like 5km where accuracy doesnt matter anymore , but reload to all weapons DOES. But even at max range it is better.
Well explaining, true and realistic game scenes, fairy attacks and damages thank you
These battle are beautiful to watch man secondary bb is art
You can theoretically do a Sniper Brawler Hybrid Build. Two polar opposite playstyles in to one ship.
Dead eye for sniping ships from a distance and if someone dares to get close to you, they will melt from your secondaries.
I hope you can test this theory out :D
Yeah you can
And I did
Works well with georgia (not much fun tho)
And not so good with germans/massa
That's actually pretty much exactly what he says in this video.
@@borakrca3588 it works extremely well on the Germans
Haven't tried Massa tho, too scared to see how they massacred my boy
Thanks for the tips Potato Quality.
Thanks for doing the work testing these builds.
Put my BB's into dry dock. Back to the cruisers and the old adage. "Everything burns if you have enough fire."
0:16 battleships in a nutshell in 20 seconds
A good buff for secondaries could be in merging the range and accuracy skills into one 4 point skill that way you can actually take some of the tanky skills out there.
One more thing they can add to manual secondaries skill is the ability to lock your rear turrets to a different sector or target, that way you can actually use all of your guns when pushing in, like some sort of mechanic similar to manual secs, where you would select a target for your rear turrets to point at and ignore the front turret rotation.
Another nice buff would be AA range increase on the skill that increases your secondaries range, where ships like Pommern can get up to 6.6 or even 7k range on AA since half of your secondaries are multi purpose anyway.
I'm a KM BB fan and have ended up with basically the same build. Conceal / Deadeye / ManSec. The offensive skills seem more necessary, and in 0.10.0 you're taking more damage when you are spotted than you were before (Deadeye / DPM skills on enemy ships), which makes islands and concealment control even more critical. On the BBs with natural 32mm pen, I've been experimenting with Grease the Gears since it's now percentage-based and arguably offers greater benefit on already-fast turrets. Wondering what your thoughts are on GtG for brawlers. I see it as a soft effective DPM increase, since you can get some shots out you normally wouldn't, and it can be useful in brawling situations, especially when managing multiple targets.
i hate it how one of their justifications for reducing secondary accuracy, is that BFT now gives 10% main battery reload, even though BFT most of the times was one of the skills people skipped out on to make their build for flexibile, so every time you want to make a secondary build that does not have BFT you're missing out on apparently one of the main selling points of secondary builds.
Hi PQ, what I find as a pretty functional build for GK in ranked (with 18pt Lutjens, so same as you almost :D) is this:
1 Loader
2 Turret traverse (b.o. Lutjens)
3 Secondary range +20%
4 Fire prevention, better reload, new superintendant
It works pretty good (and wouldn´t in random of course). The reason is that even with all the concealment you are 14,6 spotted, and that is a lot. Without it it´s like 16.2, which isn´t that bad (or that gain) for 4 points. Fire prevention is huge improvement against Thunderers and such things, extra heal PLUS EXTRA DURATION of heals helps mitigate some decent damage through the game (and it mattered many battles I played) and the reload is nasty :D
It is not about secondaries, but after you get ANY visible ship in your secondary range (=12,5 km), you fire 10% faster even with your main battery guns - best thing for brawling (and kind of dead eye in reverse). And in ranked there is half the game someone in that range if you position yourself correctly, especially on most of maps in this season.
I would like to know your opinion on this. And yes, for last 3 points I probably will add adrenaline rush to the menu :)
Jeez, Potato, content king! Don't burn yourself out, such quality and quantity seems unsustainable
Pre-10.0, secondary battleships built for hybrid survival-secondaries, forgoing Concealment Expert in order to take Fire Prevention along with ATF and Manual Secs. Because Dead Eye is so powerful in 10.0, secondary battleships now give up survival to be hybrid Dead Eye-secondary battleships, taking concealment along with Dead Eye and dropping all survival. This puts them in a much worse spot. On top of this, secondary battleships lose a heal (old Superintendent) which is something they could get in the old skills with a full 19-point hybrid survival-secondary captain. Final kick in the teeth, the one survival skill they can take in 10.0 (Basics of Survivability) has to be traded against another must-have skill; Adrenaline Rush.
''Normal'' battleships have had to make no sacrifices. They can still take a vital survival skill like Fire Prevention, along with concealment which they have always taken and then take Dead Eye. They can even keep Adrenaline Rush. All this for 18 points. With 21 points they can take Basics of Survivability and further increase survivability. Literally the only thing they have ''sacrificed'' is 1 heal from old Superintendent, and it is not like they need it now because they are sniping from further back and less exposed to incoming fire. ''Normal'' battleships will be far stronger with a 21 point captain.
The battleship that actually needs to be tanky, the secondary BB, is essentially cut off from building for any survival if it wants to be relevant. Meanwhile the J1 snipers are the ones that can build for maximum 20km survival. Its a terrible skill rework that has totally shafted secondary battleships. If secondary battleships were memes in 9.12, they're now Vine clips.
Very unhappy with these changes. I wont be playing anymore unless the mera changes...too bad i used to really love the game
When it comes to German tech tree Bismarck and F.D.G. have more aggressive secondary even without the reload for 4 captain points on them. G.K is not good ship for secondary builds tried it ... in tier X never got even close to use them.. and sure it was before 0.10 but tier X is not where you use secondary build cause everything has massive range and by the time you close distance you get pommeled by torpedoes with range of 17km or planes and Germany has apparently never heard of a decent AA... The Best spot or sweet spot for secondary builds is tier VIII/IX so Bismarck Tirpitz Pommern F.D.Grose these are the ships to go with... Gneisenau and Scharnhorst do now have 9 km range if you go secondary build but since you can end up going against ships of Tier IX it is suicidal so I do not recommend it... The use of islands is important I cannot argue about that but everyone who used to do secondary builds knew that you have to wait at first support the team from range and in the middle of the match start to move in for brawls...
Look the secondary builds are never going to be your primary point of damage based on my testing in the testing rooms it took around 224 shells from secondary hits to kill a tier VIII or IX ship and the further you were from the enemy the worse the dispersion was the closer you get the better it is but training room is not the same as when the enemy citadels you from 11km cause you wanted to light up the sky like on 4th of July. Secondary builds have a place but it's more just for people who prefer not to build their BB's to shoot from 27km range all over the map so it's a personal preference... I personally love using them and I hate that certain nations like US have their whole secondary builds behind premium but what can a wo/man do these days...
Yeah, you have to make painful choices. AA has also fallen victim to the split of basic/advanced firing training skills. When you made a full secondary build, that also fave you AA. Or in case of Halland, it gave you reload on your main guns. Now, if you try to make some hybrid build, take some secondary skills, some tanking skills, than you have no points left for AA
I think a good way to buff secondary bbs would be to change he pen requirements, like give secondary bbs armour that makes enemy ships only he pen armour that is 1/8 of the the gun caliber so they don't get melted by thunderers, smolensks, etc etc.
acutally, would not make a difference. 58mm of superstructure armour would be needed to shatter Thunderer HE D:
It's another cash grab by Wargamming.
E...V...E...R...Y...B...O...D...Y is taking the Dead Eye Captain skill. What'll happen is Wargamming will take the perverbal nerf hammer to it, everybody will say wow this captain skill isn't good anymore, and will reset their captain skills.
But here's the catch it costs doubloons to reset captain skills. Not right now but it will and it will cost more than before the captain skill change.
It's all part of the plan, mark my words.
Me purposefully not taking deadeye and tanking my winrate because I had a strong feeling that this might be the case
If it is so, than it will happen in about a month, because free reskill is available for so long.
Running secondaries in my Massa for ranked has been an exercise in futility plus DDs’ running Dazzle makes dispersion even worse and the clever DDs can go undetected to reset the Dazzle skill too.
As one of your honest follower, I think you should just give dead eye and concealment in this build. I use full secondary build for pommern these days, and get sec+fire damage for more than 50k at least, sometimes 90k. You should really go for this and have fun.
I feel the issue is the following:
On main-batterly ranged BBs: "You get a ship that works already as sniper, and use your Commanderskills to imrpove it".
On secondary brawlers: "You get a ship that neither works as sniper nor as brawler, and you use your commanderskills to make it work".
Thats kinda the reason why it will always be less efficient.
To my mind, they need to rethink the pricing for the secondary build. How is 35% dispersion on secondaries as valuable as 10% dispersion for snipers? How is 10% reload on secondaries more valuable then 10% radar duration on cruisers?
Makes no sense. you need tons of commander skills to make the secondary brawlerbuild somehow work. and still you will be less tanky then a thunderer sitting at 25km because you dont have spare points to get the tanky stuff that you actually need more then the snipers.
At least the american ones seem stronger to me now over all.
As 4-pointers i run deadeye, concealment and healbuff. No brawler, no manual secondaries. But that way, you have a ship, that is absolutely viable fighting on range or on a flank at the start. especially massa or georgia. This way you are very useful and very much a threat, while you wait for some enemies to die and for the opportunity to engage. When engaging, you still have 11,3km secondaries wich will do some damage and set some fires. even though, its without manual secondaries and brawler skill.
I honestly just get my secondary memes from Ultimate Admiral: Dreadnoughts nowadays.
Honestly, I'm happy with the secondary performance since the patch. Your secondaries now firing on both sides without you having to mark one ship first is a good trade in my opinion and Now you don't have any situations anymore in which a secondary that could fire at an enemy doesn't shoot. I also think that the lesser Accuracy is not that bad since there still enough shells hitting and as you said in the beginning I feel the same too about those shells hitting dealing more damage.
Shooting on both sides but hitting 50% less .. Not working for me
Yeah, honestly the problem is if you’ve ever got enemy ships on both sides of you within secondary range, more often than not it’s a sign you’re in TROUBLE. It shouldn’t happen very often.
i had 4 games in Kurfürst since the update and 2 of them in close brawl with like 130k dmg with like 45% of secondary damage with fire. the other 2, without any close brawl with like 25% of secondary damage with fire. a secondary build seems still pretty solid to me
I think tier 8 and 9 German battleships benefit the most from the commander rework because of the much more affordable ifhe and the buff on the range and native accuracy of their secondaries. However, ships like Shikishima and Alsace are much less effective than they were before
Great video!
DId I hear "mandantory" ? :P
My Kii is secondary specced, ranked and random. Doing well. with flag i have 10km range with secondaries, same as torps. Torps are my finishing move. I like the new 10.0, i'm one of the few secondary specs for BBs now. Always interesting at least.
I've been taking completely the opposite angle. I take CQC, Repair Expert, Fire Prevention with my four point skills and then with the threes I've been taking secondary range and swapping back and forth between testing Adrenaline Rush and the one for fire/flooding time same as you. Losing Dead Eye when I push up to eliminate the enemy Dead Eye feels less fun than only turning off the enemy perk instead of trading. Losing the accuracy is unfortunate, but I honestly feel like it doesn't help at all against DDs and the other classes are large enough that it doesn't make a huge difference.
Please do try it out and get back to me. I would love to hear your opinion, and/or that of the community, on the setup.
Does the Pom get the 12.5km secondaries also? That's kinda unfair, considering USN is still stuck with the old 11.3km. I mean, if they are gonna nerf accuracy like that, then give the increased ranged equally for all secondary build ships.
Exactly my thoughts
idk... I think dropping the 10% concealment and deadeye for fire prevention and extra heal, is worth a try
could try trading the manual targeting for the reload...with the idea that more shells in the air means an equalization of damage. but I doubt it's better than manual. Unless of course you forget to manual target....
I'm fully expecting this guide to be 1 minute long and be: don't, but if you're determined here's your best case scenario.
It turned out to be more like, "these ships can still kinda, sorta work without functional secondaries, but you take the skill to make yourself think you have secondaries and try a brawling style of play, pray, get lucky and hope for the best".
This video pretty much further confirmed that secondaries are completely dead and unusable.
It mostly showed that Georgia, Pommern and Tirpitz can work well with deadeye... the secondaries didn't do this in all his examples.
Barely hit, did nothing against destroyers.
@@SpaniardNL yeah I had my first game in Arizona today since the patch. I cit'd a new Mexico at 16.5km.
I have two questions for you.
1 - How do you put the angle diagram to left?
2 - What is this theme of your "citadel" ribons?
tks a lot!
Thanks Potato.....really helpful bro
My 50% WR is is going to die on the full secondary build hill. I cannot entertain taking concealment or deadeye on my German BBs!
This is why I'm bad at the game, but damn do I have fun. Someone has to feed players like you anyway!
Okay, so what about mid and lower tier ships? Secondary Amagi or NC? PEF at tier 6 seems fun with 8.7km range. Now lower tier ships get +35% accuracy of secondaries, instead of 15% previously
I spect my max pt capt gunther on my bis in IFHE full secondary then compensated with flags and it turned it into a absolute minigun of devistation during ranked... I reached a 87% win rate and easily reached rank 1 in 9 games! Just make sure you angle properly and you’ll be VERY successful!....9Happy hunting friends!
They did something funny with secondaries. I swear one time i had the secondarys ON THE SAME SIDE firing at two ships?!
Hey PQ, can you make a vid about gneisenau? With the new patch she has 9.5 km sec range!
Keep up the good work!
Hey, he made a video about Scharnhorst late last week and discussed the Gneisenau in it briefly. He actually said Gneis was even better than Scharn but you would build them very similarly. It's a good vid.
I still brawl with my Scharnhorst about 3 out of 5 games in random but I have to hold back until the red team pushes or half the match if over then I counter push. I'm holding on buying a Mass until the end. Hoping they change secondaries.
The problem, is secondaries accuracy. Even in a controlled testing environment, with the same tests applied, and the SAME builds, the actual hitrate difference between a battleship with improved -40% dispersion and one without amounts to only like 10% better hitrate...against a BATTLESHIP. Imagine DDs with Dazzling's +20% dispersion?
Both sides mean nothing, because the non-targeting side doesn't get a boost. Improved Secondary Battery Aiming NEEDS a buff to AT LEAST -50% dispersion in order to be worth taking for 4 points.
31:36
Really?
I always thought "eat on torp belt, its less damage, and if it hits the bow or stern it causes floods"
Thanks for the tip, I'll use that in game
Do I misunderstand or something while you said CE with Deadeye? Deadeye activate when no visible enemy ship within base concealment range (~16km), so if you get spotted or not it still doesn't matter, the problem is enemy get spotted or not.
Even you take CE and spot enemy BB first, you still probably lose Deadeye.
secondaries seem the same tbh, i still manage when i play Bismarck to activate the special commander talent just the same as before. Still getting lots of close combat awards, doesnt seem to be much of change apart from a range increase which doesnt make a difference as they dont hit much at 12km anyway.
German ships need faster heal and maybe just maybe the russian repair partys
And maybe better base secondary accuracy maybe like 20%
I love my Massachusetts full secondary.
Concealment does not work with deadeye. Only standard detection radius is considered.
I think the reason why you are getting more damage on these secondary BBs is a lot of your opponents will not have fire prevention or superintendent because of the existence of dead eye.
this was a mistake, secondaries just kill fish now and usa secondaries are just crap. i use to avg 3 to 4 hundred secondary hits now i barely get 100
Id actually say try paying attention to how they do against destroyers. With GK and its goal of brawling, secondaries used to be fantastic as the inevitable close encounters with DDs it would really hurt them. When I tried since the patch, even with full manual the hit rate was so low it was usually negligible damage. For battleship on battleship fights, the secondaries aren't as good as they used to be, but still have effect regardless with such a large target and fires. I personally changed skills away from secondaries for that reason. Being mostly only useful against other battleships, and current gameplay making it hard to get near one to begin with..... just isnt worth it to me anymore. Not like dead-eye, which produces a noticeable improvement and makes the main guns far more effective at range.
Would you run the same build on the Odin as the Pommern?
"You cannot yolo in and expect to do well" anymore, is what you are saying.
Sorry, but so far yoloing in quite always was the fastest ticket back to the port. I agree with all the points you are making about the nerfs to close range fighters and at the same time encouraging the so-much-beloved long range camping. But the rushing in Bismarck - the yellow turreted one, you know :) - that died within 4 minutes into the game and then whining for no support and noob team and all, just because she couldnt handle all the opposition alone, is a common feature in WOWS since Bismarck was introduced, I think.
On a sidenote, one might argue that the ship class meant to counter all those dead eyes should be the one you consider not to belong in the game at all.
The CQC skill, is just not worth it imo. The only times you benefit from the faster reload is those opportunities to brawl, which tenss to be mid to late game.
Deadeye is useful at all stages of a match, whereas the 2ndary skills require you to wait until its harder to influence the game.
However if you skip 2ndary accuracy, then use the reload skill as your main dmg source.
So either Deadeye 2ndary and CE, or Deadeye, CQC and CE.
Though Manual might be worse simply because of DDs taking Dazzle; even if you target them with 2ndaries, there's 15 secs that your 2ndaries are going to shoot as if you didn't hav the accuracy bonus.
I went ar(3p)+range(3p)+fp(4p)+reload(4p). When I reach 21 (so probably never lol) I'll get manual sec(4p). It's a Scharn/Bis captain, probably not for GK.
Hello why is the nurnberg still alive.
How about Shikishima? Is it still viable to spec secondary on it? Hopefully it is, I'm saving up steel for it. :(
Nope, but those guns are ridiculous
Don’t waste your steel if you want a secondary ship. Shikishima secondary are pure garbage
More damage probably coming from getting up on dead eye ships that have not been touched yet
do ypu reccomend Yamato with secondary build?
Would the Kurfürst skills apply to Bismarck too? Is she even still a viable T8?
I just want the Massachusetts to work again :pepehands:
right on brother, was my favorite ship in the game. played it the most, after the rework, tried a couple of times, and haven't touched it since.
It's just a dead port queen right now :( so sad
Hmm why is the damage done by secondaries not shown in the post battle statistics screen? That would objectively show whether they're still viable or just a fireworks show... O . o
I'm saving coal to get georgia, but after a few matches with massa I'm not sure if I should spend my coal to get it.
Its a great ship, Very unique because those 38 knot speed runs let you get gins into places people don't expect OR reposition quickly enough to change the tide of battles.
Very unique ship. Definitely worth it if sneaking around at high speed and blapping people sounds like fun
22:03 Your left torpedo tubes are still not destroyed.
However at 22:04 they were seriously destroyed by JB's Secondaries?!
I don't play German bbs anymore just because it's so frustrating... My main guns don't deal that much dmg and my sec hits nothing... The only sec ships I am playing are the American and honestly: for me they work very good... I struggle sometimes bec I end up dieing alone but mostly my average dmg on Georgia and Ohio are about 130k and furthermore they are fun to me... Ohio mainly in Ranked but Georgia destroys on tier 9 haha. Just had a 333k game yesterday =0
how can i check the accuracy of secondary gun?
So what I'm getting out of this is wargaming has made secondaries fire with more "realism"? According to a US Naval college study during ww2: "Even with a talented crew of gunners the accuracy of a ship's main guns was only about 32% at 9 miles (14.4km) against a battleship-sized target". Those studies were generally done in a controlled environment on a static target, not one in battle maneuvering to evade incoming fire, so one can assume the accuracy in a combat situation is even less than 30%. Sounds interesting though, might be worth reinstalling again sometime..
Hey Potato Quality, can you tell me, what skin you use on the GK? I want to buy this ship anyways, but this skin looks awesome. Btw thanks for this guide, I'll try it soon ^^
When you go to the GK in port you can see the available 'skins (actually camos) on the 'Exterior' tab. It's one of the sci-fi ones.
@@kelsealawrenson7188 Ty very much. But holy Jesus, 8k dubloons for a skin is way to much for me xD
@@leonidascaesar2910 Lol yep. You can think of it like you're turning the GK into a premium. You would have to really love it to pay that amount for a skin when you already have the ship, though.
@@kelsealawrenson7188 Just had my first match and have to say this ship is really fun to play. Just hold your position and use your heavy broadside. If any enemy is stupid enough to push you, they just die to your secondaries :D
@@leonidascaesar2910 huh, ok
I hope your right if they buff or puff on this and i have to pay (i don't so), I will be pissy about it.
10.0 - fkd up the game big time!
They made changes, because they wanted to bring more variety to the game, but this flipped over pretty much. We still have mandatory skills what we simply cannot skip out, and not enough points left for the rest.
For me sec builds are done.
Main guns get such a huge buff thanks to dead eye , that even going main gun build on germans is more worth it.
Played like 7 games of fully specced sec germans since patch. Max amount of sec hits was 54/450 shots fired. Just not worth it. Below 5 km you can hit Cruisers and BBs but not DDs really. Above 5km only slow moving / big BBs or almost stationary/stationary cruisers.
I never rushed in headless, I always try to play to help the team and I wont force myself into sec range.. But i had many engagements at 6-8km range and secs did not help at all.
For the first time in my entire wows "career" i switched off of secondaries on all my german BBs, and it actually made me very sad.
Why would they nerf secondary builds?
“Less viable builds”. So WG achieved the opposite of what they said, like usual.
Perspective from someone who wasnt playing for a long time and started just recently again.
Secondaries are worlds better than they were 2 years ago.
And what I saw from before the patch looked pretty stupid to me. I personaly like the current system.
Can you remind me of what mod shows the ship angles?
Download the Modstation from wg, you have all mods there.
Last night in my Republic... 709 secondary shells fired.. 97 hits. In GK 750 fired, 120 hits. Compared to what it was before... These stats are appalling. Since rework only 3 secondary kills.. I used to get 1 a game.
It sucks.
It sounded like you're saying the accuracy of secondaries have been nerfed, but in the patchnotes they said they buffed the accuracy and range of german secondaries. Direct quote from the patch notes: "Secondary battery accuracy has been increased [by 15% - ]"
Yes but there has been a global nerf on the "manual secondaries" captain upgrade that results in all secondaries being worse than they were last patch.
@@PotatoQuality I see. Thanks for the clarification. I had missed that one.
I plan to ignore buffing dispersion of the secondary's and go for the range and rate of fire since it buffs the main battery, with AR at 50% health and in secondary range, that's 20% better rof. Deadeye just isn't how I like to play, makes the game way to boring and places the BBs out of position. If it isn't for a rof buff secondary build is a complete waste, so trying to make them more accurate is kinda pointless.
My question is how are German BBs still viable at all? The dispersion on my Bismarck is so insanely bad that I essentially HAVE TO close the distance to under 15km in order to hit anything. And with secondaries kicking it at 11.5km, it feels like a waste of damage potential not to go with a secondaries build. German BB dispersion is so bad at long distance that even Dead Eye isn't enough to make sniping work... You basically have to come close range or else you are just sailing behind the lines and not hitting anything, and your only contribution to the team is not getting killed. Boring af....
Do you have the same build in Ohio as in Gergia?
They've literally SOLD bb's ON THE STRENGTH of their secondaries being VIABLE to build for. I bought mass and tirp BECAUSE of it. Now they've reneged on that advertisement point. What the fuck is the use of mass now? We can't get the extra dispersion module, that's only t9 and t10 american bb's, so what the fuck is up with mass? Shit dispersion on shit caliber with /meh aa, no torp protection to speak of, no turtle back....what exactly is mass' thing now, simply it's fast heal cooldown? Whoopty fuckin' do, I wouldn't have spent 60 bucks on that piece of absolute floating garbage if not for the secondaries build being viable. At least tirp has torps, mass is totally 100% GARBAGE now. Would RATHER be in the tech tree ship and have 60 bucks in my pocket, since it's now the same fucking ship anyway.
Massachusetts has 46% torpedo protection, that's hardly no torp protection to speak of, that's some of the best in the game.
Shit caliber? The 406mm are only beaten by the 410s on Amagi at t8, which gives no advantage whatsoever, especially when the Americans get SHS AP with superior pen only lost to the Russians, like anything in this game.
AA isn't worth mentioning, all ships have shit AA now, this is nothing new.
Despite having no turtleback, she has an underwater citadel that is very hard to hit, plus good bow armor( I think). You can put deadeye on her to fix her dispersion problem,and the secondaries are a nice bonus.
@@harrycrab1677 She's a secondary that can be cited by 132mm shells without being perfect broadside, and has just had her secondaries completely gutted.
It's cit is NOT underwater, and it's barely protected, and compared to the constant t10's your going to face in her non stop, her deck armor is worse than basic.
Glad you like the ship, but your opinion of her armor and accuracy are all off base from what you actually get in game, and theen there's the secondaries themselves.
90% of the reason to get this ship. And they just had their accuracy nerfed by over 30%, and a full secondary build now requires you to sac too much survivability to really make it work other than situationally, and only in randos.
I read secondaries are 35%accurate. Thought I read that with one of the Capitan skills you can lock secondaries on a target with control C
They aren't 35% accurate, the exact hit rate depends on the distance to the target, as well as the size of the target.
You probably misunderstood the skill that makes secondaries 35% more accurate when locked on target. Or, well, it actually improves them more than that, but that's the percentage that the skill gives you.
It's so hard to take secondary builds like before - really sucks...
My BB all play 2nd and now i don't want play this game more :(
PQ . Help. I am an OK DD player. Want to be unicum. Help me get there please? Need to get to 80k avg dmg in DD and 3 avg kills per match.
dead eye only works if your not spotted
Today i did range mod, concealment n disperion build on a GK well i did 3 citadel on yamato at 25km range n in same match i did 4 citadel on thunderer at 22km n also same match i did 2 citadel to a kremlin at 23km so i think its the best bb i ever cud have asked for n also yes i had dead eye equiped how else am gonna do all that lol
Does GK even have the pen to citadel Kremlin at that range...
@@ryanli5803 thats the first thing i questioned myself wtf happened i also messenged WG theres no replay yet
So should I get pommern or marceau?
marceau
2 point IFHE for Pommern. Yaay???