DEBATE Does the Biblical God Exist? |@CosmicSkeptic & @PhilHalper1Vs @givemeananswer Cliffe & Stuart

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  • Опубликовано: 12 дек 2024

Комментарии • 315

  • @Мария-н9п7р
    @Мария-н9п7р 2 часа назад +13

    19:20 - the beginning

    • @ModernDayDebate
      @ModernDayDebate  2 часа назад +3

      Thanks homie

    • @Victoriaizoita
      @Victoriaizoita 2 часа назад +1

      God's not dead, He's surly Alive!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus is King!!!! 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. -Philippians 2:10-11

    • @alexfriedman2152
      @alexfriedman2152 2 часа назад +1

      Awesome. thanks. I hate when they justwait for like 10 minutes. Thanks

    • @alexfriedman2152
      @alexfriedman2152 2 часа назад +1

      @Victoriaizoita Facts. I used to be an atheist or agnostic, but then had a negative spiritual experience and a near death experience. It's absolutely real. There's also a whole spir world that we can't see. It's all part of god's creation. God is REAL. I believe in Jesus as my savior.

    • @Victoriaizoita
      @Victoriaizoita 2 часа назад +1

      @@alexfriedman2152 Praise God!!!!! Amen!!!!

  • @clint5940
    @clint5940 Час назад +9

    Man the anger coming from the Knechtles was a real turn off to their arguments. It also felt like while they accused the Atheists of being dishonest with their arguments they themselves wouldn’t honestly tackle the Atheists questions, while the Atheists where the more Christlike ones in terms of being patient and honestly tackling the questions. As a Christian I was rooting for the atheists to win the debate in this one for those reasons.

  • @munashemanamike4217
    @munashemanamike4217 2 часа назад +38

    Yeah man. I knew it was gonna end this way. Cliffe just cannot handle the heavyweight atheist philosophy. Hes more of a preacher. The Catholics handle this type of argument much better and don't get emotional.

    • @Daily-PE
      @Daily-PE 2 часа назад +7

      Agreed, the moment I saw it was cliff vs cosmic skeptic I knew how bad it would be. Cliff is suited for preaching while cosmic is better at debates. I much rather it be more like cosmic skeptic vs Wes

    • @itreallybelikethatdoe829
      @itreallybelikethatdoe829 2 часа назад +1

      no they dont, and none of this was heavyweight either lol

    • @guttenman
      @guttenman 2 часа назад +3

      Guess everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses but yeah I totally agree as a Christian (Catholic) myself

    • @malirk
      @malirk Час назад +3

      How is Trent going to explain all the unnecessary suffering and slavery?

    • @valgeheim5430
      @valgeheim5430 Час назад

      @Daily-PE I agree. Cliffe does really well with Layman and sometimes professors but when it comes to debating with philosophers Cliffe performs poorly. I rather see Alex VS Inspiringphilosophy

  • @Scandimania
    @Scandimania Час назад +5

    The intro alone thoroughly cemets my recent understanding that religion is nothing more than fables for neurotic adults with fear of death.
    It is just like listen to actual children.
    15 years as a Christian, there is no greater peace than leaving this nonsense and fear of reality behind.

  • @takebacktomorrow6269
    @takebacktomorrow6269 2 часа назад +34

    The Christians having emotional outbursts while the atheists are just sitting there calmly explaining their point says a lot about this debate.

    • @DanteFeliciano-i1q
      @DanteFeliciano-i1q Час назад +4

      Yea it says that the atheist need to stop misrepresenting the Christian’s and be intellectually honest, plus debates aren’t won on who was more emotionally mature they are won on facts and arguments so this comment shows your very obvious bias

    • @daveheavy204
      @daveheavy204 Час назад +6

      ​@@DanteFeliciano-i1qit's not misrepresenting, it's dismantling the claims with facts. Can't get any nore honest.

    • @Mr_Gato02
      @Mr_Gato02 Час назад +2

      Have you seen Aaron ra vs IP? Don’t act like atheist are the rational ones and less emotional when you got people like Aaron ra having emotional outbursts 😂

    • @NotBlandBlandina
      @NotBlandBlandina Час назад +2

      I’m assuming you’ve never seen an Aron Ra, Richard Dawkins, or Matt Dillahunty or Phil Zuckerman debate

    • @takebacktomorrow6269
      @takebacktomorrow6269 Час назад

      @DanteFeliciano-i1q Christians can't even decide whether or not we live on a flat discor not. You can't accuse atheists of misinterpreting your arguments when Stuart literally argued that you had to interpret the Bible literally and then figuratively just two minutes later. Christians don't even understand their own arguments and then get upset because they can't articulate them. Lol talk about being intellectually dishonest.

  • @brianjohnson3609
    @brianjohnson3609 2 часа назад +14

    29:10 You know that cliffe and stuart don't actually have rebuttals to atheist arguments. they immediately were nail-biting and fidgeting when Phil started talking. I've seen them spew the same crap over and over with every debate, using red herring arguments and invalid syllogisms mainly as rebuttals and they never learn anything being taught to them. this is the problem with their religion. you are taught WHAT to think instead of HOW to think, while education and questioning is frowned upon. Ridiculous.
    Also, Stuart loves that appeal to authority fallacy

    • @valgeheim5430
      @valgeheim5430 Час назад

      Poor arguments have nothing to do with their religion you are dishonest. When an Atheist makes a poor argument is it because of Atheism?

    • @brianjohnson3609
      @brianjohnson3609 Час назад +2

      @@valgeheim5430 the whole point of this debate is to discuss whether or not their god exists. It always comes down to theists believing just because they want to believe it, while pretending they have valid, logical arguments to believe it even though they do not.

    • @Accordionspiral98
      @Accordionspiral98 Час назад +1

      You hit the nail on the head. These dudes don’t engage in any philosophical thought during these arguments. Their cognitive bias is literally insane

    • @brianjohnson3609
      @brianjohnson3609 48 минут назад

      @@Accordionspiral98 100%

    • @jbeiler55
      @jbeiler55 35 минут назад

      ​​@@valgeheim5430 something to maybe consider is Christianity including "God's ways are higher than our ways" and Yahweh's response to being questioned by Job. The Bible is very clear on the condition and limits of mankind.
      Christianity praises those that rely strongly on faith not knowledge and their intelligence.

  • @Puzzle-Solved
    @Puzzle-Solved 2 часа назад +10

    *Cliffe should be willing to accept, "I don't know".*
    I like all the people in the debate but it was very telling that Cliffe was allowed to say, "I don't know" dozens of times but as soon as Alex says, "I don't know" there is a huge problem. There should be consistency in the willingness to honestly state you do not know.

    • @nicknevins_4
      @nicknevins_4 2 часа назад +7

      Because Alex is using i don't know as his ideology. when Cliffe says he doesn't know its in response to some minor detail like when they were talking specifics of the flood where we don't know all the details if everything died right away or not. It would be like someone asking me "was there a freckle on Jesus's left arm?" I dont know, but my beleif in Jesus does not change because of that. that is why its okay for Cliffe and Stuart to say it but not for Alex

    • @itreallybelikethatdoe829
      @itreallybelikethatdoe829 2 часа назад +2

      @@nicknevins_4 exactly

    • @imperialhistory6120
      @imperialhistory6120 2 часа назад

      The issue is that when he says "I don't know" he is talking about something he is also curious about, but when Alex says it he thinks he is just indifferent, which annoys him. He should be more considerate of the idea that sometimes people investigate something and come to the conclusion that they don't know.

    • @DK666999
      @DK666999 Час назад

      @@nicknevins_4no you’re simply dishonest. If the answer is idk the answer is idk. Meanwhile Christian’s replace every idk with god did it. You wouldn’t know honest if it kicked you in the balls 😂

  • @randomyoutubecommenterr
    @randomyoutubecommenterr 2 часа назад +11

    Missed the live stream and am starting it later..... man.... I can tell just from the opening statements of the Christian side that this is going to be a blowout. Their points are incoherent nonsense that sounds like they're trying to convince themselves as much as the audience.

    • @alexfriedman2152
      @alexfriedman2152 2 часа назад +3

      Well the problem is that Humans are actually incredibly primitive. It's very hard to make arguments when we haven't even created equipment to monitor the spirit world and prove god, even though it absolutely is real. I used to be an atheist until I had a spiritual, life changing experience. There's a God, but I do think a lot of the bible, especially the old testament, was a lot of stories that got passed down throughout the ages back then.

    • @Daily-PE
      @Daily-PE 2 часа назад

      Alex, I always thought it was weird atheists needed material evidence of God, a being outside of time and matter, so how would the material world be able to detect him scientifically?

    • @raymanic7603
      @raymanic7603 38 минут назад

      @@alexfriedman2152So… it’s not real? I appreciate your testimony and understand why you feel the way you do, but again we have no way to know if you’re right.

  • @WalkerFrankeArt
    @WalkerFrankeArt 2 часа назад +4

    This debate felt like there was some sort of beef behind the scenes, particularly between Phil and Stuart.

  • @alteredendeavor
    @alteredendeavor Час назад +6

    Cliffe and Stuart did a lot to hurt their cause. Do they realize that their truth relies on their interpretation of the bibles text? What makes theirs the right one? A lot of disagreement in all these religions. I side completely with Phil and Alex, there is no good evidence to accept this as true. Society and its rules have evolved and changed due to trial and error over millions of years. We are still figuring it out and changing.

  • @TheDiamond872
    @TheDiamond872 10 минут назад +2

    I strive to tune in whenever Alex O'Connor is in a debate. Always seems extremely reasonable.

  • @setboy1
    @setboy1 33 минуты назад +2

    I don’t understand how cliffe and his kid keep doing these. They are horrible debaters. Absolutely can’t stand on topic, just yells about irrelevant stuff get mad when someone brings up something they freaking cited. I’d be ok if I never heard from anyone but Alex in this debate again. Just horrible showing

  • @pointlesspos8440
    @pointlesspos8440 2 часа назад +6

    This isn't a debate, it's a exposition of beliefs. Cliff seems to think someone can't even be alive if they don't have a belief. That's not how biolgy works.

    • @YourStylesGeneric321
      @YourStylesGeneric321 2 часа назад

      Though I believe Cliff was not able to say what he meant, and did a poor job of explaining it, I believe he is right when saying, I dont know is not an answer to certain questions when the very person answering the question already believes or presupposes meaning, truth, morality ect. and this is ultimately the transcendental argument for God worded very poorly.

    • @pointlesspos8440
      @pointlesspos8440 Час назад +1

      @@YourStylesGeneric321 1. This is a debate. Not being able to explain onself is not really great.
      2. You don't have to declare a a purpose, have one or know your own, also although he didn't say, It can be emergent.

  • @dwijon
    @dwijon 34 минуты назад +3

    Cliff talking about intellectual honesty fucking kills me. I truly don't think the man has an ounce of intellectual honestly in any if his arguments.

  • @bloodyhatter2692
    @bloodyhatter2692 36 минут назад +1

    I've always wondered about cliff and stuart. Why are either their chairs so high or their tables so low? Every time they're on we get stuart looking down on us and cliff looking down his nose at us.

  • @AS-sn5gf
    @AS-sn5gf 2 часа назад +10

    Cliffe and Stuart both have a lot of rage, though Stuart conceals his a bit more. These two really fall apart when they arent pushing around college freshmen, the embarrassing thing is they will walk away from this thinking they performed well.

    • @DanteFeliciano-i1q
      @DanteFeliciano-i1q Час назад +3

      They did perform well and they have every right to be upset when the opponent is straw-manning and misrepresenting them. Emotions have nothing to do with who won the debate. Cliffe and Stuart win today because they present better arguments and had more evidence

    • @AS-sn5gf
      @AS-sn5gf Час назад +1

      @@DanteFeliciano-i1q Yeah I figured I would get a response like that from a delusional theist.

    • @Anajsjy
      @Anajsjy 39 минут назад

      @@DanteFeliciano-i1q I don’t think they performed well at all from both sides, I don’t understand why we’re still using medieval arguments against atheism when we’ve grown so much since van till

    • @DanteFeliciano-i1q
      @DanteFeliciano-i1q 33 минуты назад

      @ and i don’t get why atheist use the same arguments that have been debunked thousands of years ago by the early church fathers but hey here we are

    • @bloodyhatter2692
      @bloodyhatter2692 32 минуты назад

      ​@@Anajsjy because you're still using a bronze age book to base your arguments on.

  • @dalongibson733191
    @dalongibson733191 2 часа назад +7

    That spasms of anger coming from the Christian side of this debate does not communicate confidence in their positions.

  • @itachimadra
    @itachimadra Час назад +3

    if your faith hinged on the cliffes winning a debate you had very little faith to begin with 😭.
    Also the cliffes need to stop doing these types of debates and leave it to the orthodox & catholics tbh.

  • @Aiming_Upwards
    @Aiming_Upwards Час назад +1

    If I'm right with the question I asked at 2:07:20, then why doesn't any apologist tell this to an atheist? Why isn't anyone discussing why a person should put their faith in Jesus despite there appearing to be a lack of evidence? WE KNOW THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DON'T HONESTLY DON'T FIND THE EVIDENCE CONVINCING. Everyone usually just discuss knowledge in these debates, but knowledge only informs us on how to best reach our goals. Knowledge DOES NOT ultimately tell us what to do with our life.
    What I think is that our goal should be is to become fully loving/good/righteous, as opposed to maximizing happy/good feelings in this life and the theoretical beyond.

    • @dismaleclipse5587
      @dismaleclipse5587 46 минут назад

      300 is crazy

    • @Aiming_Upwards
      @Aiming_Upwards 29 минут назад

      @@dismaleclipse5587 Yep. There are worse places it could go.

    • @HenryDurth
      @HenryDurth 28 минут назад

      Wow and what evidence do you have that your goal is the right way? If there is no God wouldn't the goal be more focused on pleasure?

  • @jbeiler55
    @jbeiler55 29 минут назад +1

    Christians relied so heavily on their feelings (moral intuitions) and believing the Bible is True™️

  • @Grimplays185
    @Grimplays185 Час назад +1

    Please Cliffe & Steuart need to face Aaron & Tjump again its too good not to pass again PLEASE" 😂🤣

  • @ShrakeApologetics
    @ShrakeApologetics 2 часа назад +9

    Have Jay Dyer on. An actual Orthodox Apologist, not Protestant evangelists.

    • @munashemanamike4217
      @munashemanamike4217 2 часа назад +5

      😭😭😭. As a Catholic these Protestants really do good at embarrassing us 💀

    • @AustGM
      @AustGM Час назад

      Protestant evangelists convert more people in 50 years than there is people in your entire church. Pipe down

    • @Giorgi755
      @Giorgi755 Час назад +5

      ​@@munashemanamike4217 as an Orthodox I agree

    • @JesusIsTheWorldsLight
      @JesusIsTheWorldsLight Час назад

      nothing wrong with that if u dont like them just go to your mom and cry lol

    • @ModernDayDebate
      @ModernDayDebate  Час назад +4

      Jay Dyer never responds to my invitations, might wanna talk to him about that

  • @nahta
    @nahta 54 минуты назад +1

    I notice that the religious folk act in a similar way to flat earthers, they show up in force during the live debate & early comments, then it gets washed out.

  • @anthonydesimone502
    @anthonydesimone502 8 минут назад +1

    Cliffe and Stuart are just so out of their depth when they have to talk to actual philosophers. This was almost painful.

  • @ModernDayDebate
    @ModernDayDebate  3 часа назад +1

    As mentioned, keep an eye out for the link to tickets for the Newark, NJ DEBATECON 5 conference on Saturday, Feb-15-16th! We'll be adding debates to the DEBATECON playlist weekly as the debates will also be live-streamed free for the public! Currently 1 of 10 are showing in the playlist: ruclips.net/p/PLDtD1J1K42dBzbtvmvELwCVJKub806iWQ&si=3ehg6yjuVBoqXDZ1

    • @Victoriaizoita
      @Victoriaizoita 2 часа назад +1

      God's not dead, He's surly Alive!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus is King!!!! 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. -Philippians 2:10-11

  • @catsclub12566
    @catsclub12566 57 минут назад +1

    Thank you for this debate

  • @bearinasuithaha8417
    @bearinasuithaha8417 2 часа назад +7

    Cliff: “I find it scary that someone would think the Bible makes scientific claims at all”
    Not 20 minutes prior they were blue in the face about how impressive it is that Genesis suggests there was a beginning of the universe. Pick a lane

  • @liberalinoklahoma1888
    @liberalinoklahoma1888 13 минут назад

    " GET YOUR ETERNAL LIFE HERE, FOLKS!
    ETERNAL LIFE HERE!! PAY NOW AND GET IT AFTER YOU DIE!!
    NO ONE HAS EVER COME BACK TO COMPLAIN!
    100% GUARANTEED SATISFACTION OR YOUR MONEY BACK!!"

  • @rickm.rogersphd9673
    @rickm.rogersphd9673 51 минуту назад

    I found Alex and Phil much less judgmental and more on topic most of the time. Alex's biblical training and wide reading seemed well suited for this sort of encounter. While I'm sure Cliffe and Stuart wanted to be conversational partners, they are clearly trained to be preachers who seek to convert their interlocutors in these settings and do not expect their views to be challenged so thoroughly. I admire their strong opinions and sincere confidence, but don't think debate or careful argument suits them very well. It was very kind of Phil, showing no ill will, to invite Cliffe and Stuart to visit him in London. I'm not sure Cliffe and Stuart felt emotionally well enough, given their expressions of dissatisfaction with this experience, to reciprocate.

  • @liberalinoklahoma1888
    @liberalinoklahoma1888 56 минут назад +1

    YES YES YES, I finally believe in talking donkeys and snakes and a god that loves to play hide and seek.

  • @notablindperson4590
    @notablindperson4590 19 минут назад

    The atheists keep failing to answer the clear question of “if there is no God then what evidence do you have for other meanings to live for” which is what stirred me during this debate
    Props to Cliffs and Stuart for challenging this “agnosticism” and demonstrating how this line of thinking fails entirely

  • @liberalinoklahoma1888
    @liberalinoklahoma1888 Час назад

    Through thousands of years of spouting about their gods religious people have been unsuccessful into 'talking' their God into our reality.

  • @Anonymous_Service_Leaks
    @Anonymous_Service_Leaks 2 часа назад +4

    I predicted that Cliff and his son weren’t fit to debate scholars of Muslims religion. But I did not expect for them to lose to intellectual Atheists, that was easy to predict but I did not expect them to lose this bad.

    • @munashemanamike4217
      @munashemanamike4217 2 часа назад

      If you can't handle Muslims there's simply no way you are gonna deal with Atheists. Cliffe and his son aren't philosophers or intellectuals themselves so it was doomed to begin with.

  • @parislovesrachmaninoff
    @parislovesrachmaninoff 2 часа назад +1

    Proof cliffe and stuart are nothing when they are trying to debate and not preaching to college students

  • @SixthHeaven6
    @SixthHeaven6 34 минуты назад +1

    Ahhh yes, cliffe and Stuart once again demonstrating they can’t actually debate with competent atheist and needs to bully college kids to look good.
    I truly love it when they show everyone how uneducated, ignorant, and dishonest they are and then get absolutely destroyed by atheists that know what their talking about.

  • @liberalinoklahoma1888
    @liberalinoklahoma1888 31 минуту назад

    " And he shall be called Immanuel", Matthew 1:23,
    which is why they pray and worship Immanuel Christ.

  • @Anajsjy
    @Anajsjy 40 минут назад

    This was a pretty terrible debate from both sides really. I don’t understand why both sides are giving dead arguments it’s like the atheist haven’t gone past 1700s and cliffe and stuart are still giving kalam arguments in big 2024

  • @Tiredhike
    @Tiredhike Час назад +1

    Gotta love evangelical Christian genocide apologetics. They can never deal with the atrocities in the OT other than leaving God as a genocidal war god with morally idiotic arguments. It renders God as incoherent.

  • @briangueringer3673
    @briangueringer3673 Час назад +4

    I honestly think Cliffe is insane..

    • @joerdim
      @joerdim 36 минут назад

      Or desperate because the paychecks get smaller and smaller since Christianity is dying.

  • @takebacktomorrow6269
    @takebacktomorrow6269 Час назад

    Stuart really said that he would ask Jesus if God was real.Are you kidding me? He's doing So many mental gymnastics.He can't even get a core tenant of his religion right.

  • @landsknecht8654
    @landsknecht8654 2 часа назад

    2:08:51
    Yeah, just like in historical fencing; a lot of groups disagree with each other's methods based on an interpretation of the manuscripts and how to fight with these weapons. These are literally instruction manuals written hundreds of years ago and these teachers wrote these. Yet today, different groups of historical fencing may have slight different interpretations from each other.
    How is this possible?
    Simply, things get lost through translation. Certain words can lose their meaning in a translation and could change an entire paragraph.

  • @liberalinoklahoma1888
    @liberalinoklahoma1888 47 минут назад

    Man created his god in his own image, just look at how the deities resemble the people that worship them.

  • @meganmarie5
    @meganmarie5 Час назад

    Are tickets for debate con on sale yet?

  • @liberalinoklahoma1888
    @liberalinoklahoma1888 26 минут назад

    When you have an accident the officer handling it will have every witness tell him what they saw and at the end he hands in HIS report stating what more likely than not happened, he doesn't submit everyone's different versions, God was too lazy to do that.

  • @jahamilton
    @jahamilton 27 минут назад +3

    Phil seems dishonest, Cliffe doesnt seem as suited for debates due to him being a bit of a hot head (im sure he would admit this flaw of his himself), most of Alex's supposed bible contradictions have reasonable explanations that im surprised he didnt know but otherwise was good as usual, and Stuart lost his temper at Phil although understandably so because like I said Phil was being dishonest. That's it. That is my summary.

  • @Oneocna
    @Oneocna Час назад +1

    For the Christians that think Cliff and Stew won, I have a question
    why do animals suffer before humans existed...and remember idk is not an answer

    • @koolkid1234ism
      @koolkid1234ism Час назад +3

      They didn’t

    • @DanteFeliciano-i1q
      @DanteFeliciano-i1q Час назад +1

      Yes idk is a valid answer your boy Alex used idk for an answer and by your logic we can’t prove that 9/11 happened because there would be things that we don’t know
      The viewpoint you bring up is only a problem to Christians who accept evolution but not a problem for Christian who accept creationism which is majority so this really isn’t a big burn as you think it is

    • @reality_anchor
      @reality_anchor Час назад

      @@DanteFeliciano-i1qWhile I agree that this guy’s comment is pretty brain dead since “I don’t know” is certainly an answer, I would like to point out that most Christians are not creationist (mostly due to a greater and more widespread common understanding of evolution and geological dating).

    • @joerdim
      @joerdim 30 минут назад

      Most of them in here seem to think that Cliff and Stew did poorly and call for the embarrassing presup catholics to the rescue.

    • @Oneocna
      @Oneocna 24 минуты назад

      @@koolkid1234ism ok you arent smart enough to pass 5th grade biology if you think thats the case have a fun life.

  • @kxnt_joel1238
    @kxnt_joel1238 57 минут назад

    2:03:00 was shocking , my mouth opened , I really really hope that the guy is okay

  • @Dawahdude0
    @Dawahdude0 46 минут назад

    I have never heard Alex ever accepted Islam I did not find his Shahadah story

    • @joerdim
      @joerdim 32 минуты назад

      Wtf?

  • @sebastijan5894
    @sebastijan5894 26 минут назад

    Not an attack on any side nor anyone’s character, but it is perhaps, to use the common phrase of this debate, intelectually dishonest to bring on evangelical non-denominational preachers with no experience in formal debates nor a strong intellectual background. It’s not particularly enjoyable for atheists nor Christians. There are really good Christian intellectuals, mostly Catholics, who would bring a lot more to the table and both groups of listeners, as well as the undecided ones, would gain much more from it.

  • @qfranklin2777
    @qfranklin2777 2 часа назад +5

    The atheists talks about animal's suffering when the same animals kill other animals to survive and the truth is the animals isn't doing anything wrong because the animals aren't like human with a moral compass.

    • @shaneglass3576
      @shaneglass3576 2 часа назад

      They aren’t made in the image of God. It’s that simple. Christians don’t deny that animals suffered before humans. Obviously. The Lord gave mankind dominion over all of the animals on earth. That includes eating them. It’s a garbage argument.

    • @rodnyjoseph3492
      @rodnyjoseph3492 Час назад +2

      But who designed the animals to have no moral compass and to kill and devour each other? God did?

    • @galraviv2645
      @galraviv2645 Час назад +2

      i think the basis of Alex's argument is not about the moral compass of the animals. There are millions of animals who suffer horrible lives (for example cows being farmed for human consumption). The only purpose of these animals is to become human food. If God is real, why is he permitting these actions?

    • @BetaKrogoth
      @BetaKrogoth 44 минуты назад

      Its not about animals "doing wrong", its about animals suffering. Does the deer not bleed and die under great stress as the jaws crush its neck? Why should animals feel pain and stress at all? The whole system makes sense a lot more sense if it doesn't come a creator who supposedly loves all.

  • @duplicate-l1y
    @duplicate-l1y Час назад

    Although accurate, it wasn't entirely nice when Alex pointed out that James looks like he's chewing cud on stream

    • @ModernDayDebate
      @ModernDayDebate  Час назад

      Ha no that's accurate bc I was chewing the chunks from the chunky peanut butter I put in my protein shake

  • @postpunkjustin
    @postpunkjustin 2 часа назад +1

    It's all too rare for MDD to host a debate where both sides are represented by reasonable and intelligent people, but this is certainly one of those times. I do think Alex and Phil knocked it out of the park, but the Knechtles held their own and represented their positions well.

  • @TheSquadwGreenmachineandothers
    @TheSquadwGreenmachineandothers Час назад +5

    Wow Cliffe and Stuart destroyed these two

    • @aforce2314
      @aforce2314 Час назад +3

      How?!
      Their argument is: "because the book says so'
      So, their argument is no better than a devout Muslim saying the same thing/things

    • @TheSquadwGreenmachineandothers
      @TheSquadwGreenmachineandothers Час назад +2

      @aforce2314they give specific reasons why their book was correct and the others weren’t, such as eyewitness testimony and historical reliability on the manuscript tradition

    • @Oneocna
      @Oneocna Час назад

      so why do animals suffer before humans existed...and remember idk is not an answer

    • @barco111
      @barco111 Час назад +1

      ​@@TheSquadwGreenmachineandothersthey didn't give any evidence for the resurrection

    • @TheSquadwGreenmachineandothers
      @TheSquadwGreenmachineandothers Час назад

      @@barco111not in this debate. I thought the person I was responding to meant Cliffe in general. In this debate Cliffe never mentions God is real because of the Bible so I thought he was referring to another debate

  • @SarahStandring
    @SarahStandring 2 часа назад

    I know it’s late in the game, but Stuart can’t be dumb enough to be a theist.

  • @TheZealotsDen
    @TheZealotsDen 2 часа назад

    Reminds me of The Zealots Den and Michael beverlys conversation

  • @toby9364
    @toby9364 Час назад +1

    Not trying to be facetious but is this the best the christian side has?

    • @Mr_Gato02
      @Mr_Gato02 Час назад

      Not even close. As a Christian I think there’s better debaters like inspiring philosophy for ex, who has actually debated Alex before. This debate was embarrassing

    • @toby9364
      @toby9364 Час назад

      @ thanks for the rec!

    • @kxnt_joel1238
      @kxnt_joel1238 56 минут назад

      @@toby9364 no no no , as a Christian , you want to see the A Christian debaters, check out John Lennox , Trent horn and William lane Craig

  • @raymanic7603
    @raymanic7603 Час назад

    1:25:30
    Might be the worst response of the debate

  • @discovery_uncharted
    @discovery_uncharted Час назад +5

    Good job Cliffe and Stuart

  • @MikeGuidoHomes
    @MikeGuidoHomes 2 часа назад +5

    These dudes are very concerned about animals.

  • @bloodyhatter2692
    @bloodyhatter2692 Час назад

    Is Cliff a biblical literalist? Does he believe in the Full Tri Omni God?

  • @zizouboy2
    @zizouboy2 2 часа назад +14

    Wow, as a Christian I have to say Alex and Phil absolutely destroyed Cliffe and his son. It's really making me question my faith as there is just too much that's indefensible, and if Cliffe gets so intellectually bruised by the simplest of inconsistencies and questions around suffering then who am I to argue. The way Cliffe avoided the questions and just kept getting emotional/raising his voice trying to silence his opponents was quite telling.

    • @Victoriaizoita
      @Victoriaizoita 2 часа назад

      God's not dead, He's surly Alive!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus is King!!!! 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. -Philippians 2:10-11

    • @zdravzivot3016
      @zdravzivot3016 2 часа назад +7

      Dude,you are just pretending to be christian and you troll.I meet your fake comments few times now.Judt so dishonest..I feel sorry for you.May Jesus heal you❤

    • @itreallybelikethatdoe829
      @itreallybelikethatdoe829 2 часа назад +2

      Your really weird for this comment, But if thats ur decision to leave ur relationship with Jesus then thats unfortunate. I hope u understand jesus is the only way before its 2 late

    • @bullymaguire23
      @bullymaguire23 2 часа назад

      Least fake Christian, but yeah thise Christian aren't really good at their regional dn debating. When it comes to debating, they are really terrible at it. They obviously never look into the manuscript, early church's teacher, etc. They just say what their opinion is and say spamming the word "dishonest"

    • @ShrakeApologetics
      @ShrakeApologetics 2 часа назад

      Watch Jay Dyer. He’s a true apologist. Cliffe is a Protestant lol

  • @Light2eternity
    @Light2eternity 3 минуты назад

    Looks like these atheist have more morals than God. Alex and Phil you are gods. Ppl should worship them..

  • @AustGM
    @AustGM Час назад +2

    Knetchle W

    • @Oneocna
      @Oneocna Час назад +2

      so why do animals suffer before humans existed...and remember idk is not an answer

    • @AustGM
      @AustGM Час назад

      @Oneocna I don’t accept an old earth so I would say there wasn’t

    • @RyanJones-ew8vm
      @RyanJones-ew8vm Час назад

      ​@AustGM you mean you do t accept reality?

  • @Bern1808
    @Bern1808 2 часа назад

    This "debate," brought to you by the ASPCA. On several occasions, listening live, the event was interrupted by RUclips ads. I consider that as evidence that God exists as this always occurred when Phil was speaking at length -- thus ensuring I didn't miss anything important, and mitigating unnecessary suffering.

  • @Tellmewhy235
    @Tellmewhy235 3 часа назад +17

    Christ lost today

    • @itreallybelikethatdoe829
      @itreallybelikethatdoe829 2 часа назад +6

      Christ Won today amen

    • @Anonymous_Service_Leaks
      @Anonymous_Service_Leaks 2 часа назад +3

      @@itreallybelikethatdoe829 Seems you only paid attention when they were preaching huh

    • @Victoriaizoita
      @Victoriaizoita 2 часа назад

      God's not dead, He's surly Alive!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus is King!!!! 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. -Philippians 2:10-11

    • @brianjohnson3609
      @brianjohnson3609 2 часа назад

      @@Anonymous_Service_Leaks which is typical of theists, only looking for confirmation, not growth

    • @davidbermudez7704
      @davidbermudez7704 2 часа назад

      Jesus never loses only those that are emotional

  • @WTombstone-z7r
    @WTombstone-z7r 3 часа назад +2

    FINALLY FIRST

    • @Victoriaizoita
      @Victoriaizoita 2 часа назад

      God's not dead, He's surly Alive!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus is King!!!! 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. -Philippians 2:10-11

    • @cloverfield911
      @cloverfield911 2 часа назад

      Non existant God will reward you for your firstness.

  • @cfcultras9285
    @cfcultras9285 Час назад +3

    Respect to both sides but the two Christian’s were far more convincing. The atheists were using very unconvincing arguments about birth location and appeals to emotion.

    • @barco111
      @barco111 Час назад +5

      You are joking

  • @landsknecht8654
    @landsknecht8654 2 часа назад +2

    1:37:55
    It's really a simple answer. Why the deer is suffering when it got stuck or whatever, and the mountain lion killed it. It's because we live in a fallen world. The universe that we live in is a fallen universe. The garden even was a different state of the universe when it wasn't Fallen. The suffering virtually did not exist.
    With Free Will comes with great responsibility, it's sort of like when you become your own man you leave your parents house you're no longer about under their house rules and you could do almost whatever you want really but these choices you make have consequences as well as an uncertain World outside of your parents house and protection it's the same concept but in a cosmic scale.
    If God wanted to create no suffering, then we'll simply be like robots, with little choices to no choices, and we just do whatever we need to be done. Will simply be robots in a sense. However, God didn't want us to be robots. Therefore, we can choose, and a lot of the choices we make will have consequences.

    • @Victoriaizoita
      @Victoriaizoita 2 часа назад +1

      God's not dead, He's surly Alive!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus is King!!!!

    • @bearinasuithaha8417
      @bearinasuithaha8417 2 часа назад +1

      Why must child cancer exist for us to have free will? I know child cancer exists and that Christian’s believe in the fall and that free will exists. But I absolutely fail to see why all 3 are intrinsic to each other

    • @elcrow113
      @elcrow113 2 часа назад +1

      @landsknecht8654 You're saying before the fall the lion was a vegetarian?

    • @longboy5639
      @longboy5639 2 часа назад

      @@landsknecht8654 God could do it but choose not do it and if freedom of choose can not exist without suffering, then, is not free choose in heaven

    • @iambuhlockay8007
      @iambuhlockay8007 2 часа назад

      Is there suffering and sin in heaven?

  • @AustinVickery
    @AustinVickery Час назад +2

    Cliffe and Stuart did a really good job at showing how Alex’s argument about being born in a certain country disproves God is a non sequitur.

    • @Oneocna
      @Oneocna Час назад +2

      so why do animals suffer before humans existed...and remember idk is not an answer

  • @LogicalWin321
    @LogicalWin321 2 часа назад +2

    Cliffe and Stuart can’t see that they are confined to a book. God would be smarter than that.

    • @itreallybelikethatdoe829
      @itreallybelikethatdoe829 2 часа назад +1

      Its called word of god, so how else are we supose to learn ??

    • @davidbermudez7704
      @davidbermudez7704 2 часа назад

      @@LogicalWin321
      Not really because born-again Christians believe “For we live by faith not by sight”

    • @TryingToFollowChrist37
      @TryingToFollowChrist37 2 часа назад +1

      God is, that is why he set up an institute called the church who compiled the Bible. But when you're cut off from your history you'll just start filling it with whatever you have.

  • @bxing602
    @bxing602 Час назад +4

    Cliffe and Stuart are some of the best evangelists out there. They flawlessly won this debate

  • @kxnt_joel1238
    @kxnt_joel1238 2 часа назад +1

    Cliffe and Stuart did far better then expected , they won by a split decision

  • @elibonham4388
    @elibonham4388 3 часа назад +3

    2:47:16 Christianity is false due to these 3 passages Jesus said he would return before that generation passed away. And he didnt.... in Mathew Mark and Luke

    • @RalphCifaretto-iy1hk
      @RalphCifaretto-iy1hk 2 часа назад +5

      He was speaking about the future generation that will witness the signs of the end times. You're applying your own subjective interpretation onto scripture

    • @Victoriaizoita
      @Victoriaizoita 2 часа назад

      God's not dead, He's surly Alive!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus is King!!!! 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. -Philippians 2:10-11

    • @jamie210690
      @jamie210690 2 часа назад

      ​@RalphCifaretto-iy1hk how do you know you arent?

    • @elibonham4388
      @elibonham4388 2 часа назад +1

      HE SAID THIS GENERATION this tree will not wither away until the son of man returns. WHAT DID CS LEWIS SAY. He said Jesus failed.

    • @davidbermudez7704
      @davidbermudez7704 2 часа назад

      That ain't the context of those verses Jesus was teaching about future events leading to His return not while He was on earth during the first century

  • @Lazar_Biblija
    @Lazar_Biblija 3 часа назад +27

    Christ won today

    • @Victoriaizoita
      @Victoriaizoita 2 часа назад

      God's not dead, He's surly Alive!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus is King!!!! 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. -Philippians 2:10-11

    • @munashemanamike4217
      @munashemanamike4217 2 часа назад +22

      Bro let's not do that. Cliffe lost hard. Alex was more coherent. Being Christians doesn't mean we have to be biased against logic.

    • @Victoriaizoita
      @Victoriaizoita 2 часа назад +1

      @@munashemanamike4217 People are not perfect. But God is.
      What does it mean to win or lose a debate. Jesus is still King!!!!! He is still God!!!!!

    • @Victoriaizoita
      @Victoriaizoita 2 часа назад

      @@munashemanamike4217 I did not watch the whole debate.

    • @davidbermudez7704
      @davidbermudez7704 2 часа назад +2

      God never loses

  • @elibonham4388
    @elibonham4388 3 часа назад +2

    God asks for child sacrifice 2:46:16

    • @whyaskwhybuddry
      @whyaskwhybuddry 2 часа назад +6

      @elibonham4388, Why is Child Sacrifice "wrong" if humans are simply a cosmic accident from billions of years of random chemistry?
      Under the Atheist model, Child Sacrifice is just a part of "Evolution by Natural Selection" and thus not inherently good, bad, right or wrong.

    • @Victoriaizoita
      @Victoriaizoita 2 часа назад +1

      God's not dead, He's surly Alive!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus is King!!!!

    • @elibonham4388
      @elibonham4388 2 часа назад

      I'm asking you if you're a christian is child sacrifice okay

    • @yourguard4
      @yourguard4 2 часа назад

      @@whyaskwhybuddry Why would be child sacrifice wrong, if humans are created by God?
      Doesn't make a difference, so, bad argument.

    • @goshdernit
      @goshdernit 2 часа назад +1

      @@whyaskwhybuddry humans are a social species that rely on the benefit of others for the success of the group. killing your children would go strictly against survival and the growth of the population, humans have morality (given that some are absolute monsters) because of the need to survive as a group and carry on genes to the next generation.
      Under the christan model, humans punished for the sins of others thousands of years ago and see life as finite suffering for infinite bliss, and use the material world as a mat to wipe your feet on before dying and going some place infinitely better.
      If your god is moral, how can infinite punishment for a finite crime be just or moral in any way?

  • @vortexlegend101
    @vortexlegend101 2 часа назад +2

    Alex and Phil are an unstoppable duo. ❤

    • @Victoriaizoita
      @Victoriaizoita 2 часа назад

      God's not dead, He's surly Alive!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus is King!!!! 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. -Philippians 2:10-11

  • @DanteFeliciano-i1q
    @DanteFeliciano-i1q Час назад +1

    Bro please never bring Phil back, I mean the guy is totally dishonest has no credibly, straw-manned the whole debate and clearly has no intellect on this topic it was embarrassing and really cringy to watch. At least Alex has somewhat knowledge on the Bible but this Phil guy is just completely ignorant

  • @WTombstone-z7r
    @WTombstone-z7r 3 часа назад +1

    FIRST

    • @Victoriaizoita
      @Victoriaizoita 2 часа назад

      God's not dead, He's surly Alive!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus is King!!!! 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. -Philippians 2:10-11

  • @DanteFeliciano-i1q
    @DanteFeliciano-i1q Час назад +1

    Funny that Alex says Christianity isn’t the truth but then in the same breath says he doesn’t know the truth
    If you don’t know the truth how you can you claim something ain’t true, this is the big problem every atheist suffers 😂

    • @alteredendeavor
      @alteredendeavor Час назад +2

      He disputes the claims in Bible that doesn't mean you have the answer.

    • @DanteFeliciano-i1q
      @DanteFeliciano-i1q Час назад

      @ you completely missed the point.
      Alex is in no position to say the Bible is false if he doesn’t even know what truth is. That’s like me saying the referee made a bad call without even knowing the rules

    • @alteredendeavor
      @alteredendeavor Час назад

      @DanteFeliciano-i1q maybe we can't know and that's the issue. They use the Christian doctrine and claim it to be the truth. We say there are massive holes that you have not answered and that brings into question the utility of it. This is a human concept that is unique to humans and evolved as society has figured things out. We are still learning and maybe there isn't a definitive answer. Having humility and saying I don't know is a lot better than being cock sure in a worldview that could potentially be wrong.

    • @dismaleclipse5587
      @dismaleclipse5587 40 минут назад

      Please point me to where he said it is false ​@@DanteFeliciano-i1q

  • @Therealstarbel
    @Therealstarbel Час назад +2

    Okay so
    Now atheist are trying to run with this view that the Christian were angry here when that wasn’t even the case cliffe and Stuart were chilling , wow you atheist are professional deceivers

    • @Oneocna
      @Oneocna Час назад +2

      so why do animals suffer before humans existed...and remember idk is not an answer

    • @clint5940
      @clint5940 57 минут назад +1

      Ok dude at 1:21:50 in the video the one Christian literally says he’s “ticked off”. Watch like 10 seconds earlier you will see a clear example of him having an emotional outburst

    • @Therealstarbel
      @Therealstarbel 46 минут назад

      @ oh so you’re the type that likes to pick and choose where to make your point , okay so what did he say he was ticked off , he literally said it right after , “you keep misquoting me and making points I did not make” , the guy Phil kept misquoting him in a live event but yeah the Christian should just stay quiet and not speak up for himself to let the audience “I did not say that” , cliffe and Stuart were chilled the whole time , he just had to let Phil know right there he’s not going to stay quiet when he’s being misquoted , so is that fair to you atheist ? To misquote someone ? What is it , I need to know….

    • @Therealstarbel
      @Therealstarbel 45 минут назад

      @Oneocna where is your proof that animals suffered before humans 😂😂 please I need to know , you and I don’t have the answer for that as much as you want to think there’s an answer for that

    • @clint5940
      @clint5940 40 минут назад

      @@TherealstarbelI’m not saying that he wasn’t misquoted. All I’m saying is that they definitely weren’t chill like you were suggesting. And giving an example to prove my point is not cherry-picking that’s making a statement and trying to back it up instead of just saying no you’re wrong. To me it didn’t feel like only in this moment they were upset their very first rebuttal they seemed upset and angry. That being said I haven’t listened to the whole thing yet I’m like into it almost two hours but so far they have seemed upset the whole time and you said they were just chilling. They definitely weren’t

  • @Victoriaizoita
    @Victoriaizoita 2 часа назад +4

    God's not dead, He's surly Alive!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus is King!!!! 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. -Philippians 2:10-11

  • @WHAT-bz6hp
    @WHAT-bz6hp 2 часа назад +1

    We know earth is intelligently designed and life information and intelligence have no origin in natural causes. ​Earth is created. Life was added
    CREATION = heaven and earth , life , intelligence and information created by YHWH

    • @iambuhlockay8007
      @iambuhlockay8007 2 часа назад +1

      We actually don’t know that. Nothing in the way of evidence suggests that.

    • @WHAT-bz6hp
      @WHAT-bz6hp 2 часа назад

      @@iambuhlockay8007 I discern facts, you assume lies and deny facts
      ​flat earth is intelligently designed, the living human body was intelligently designed to live on a flat stationary pressurized earth
      ​We know earth is intelligently designed and life information and intelligence have no origin in natural causes. ​Earth is created. Life was added
      CREATION = heaven and earth , life , intelligence and information created by YHWH
      YHWH is truth and light
      the word of YHWH informs us about our origins purpose and destiny and uses real people places and events to teach and guide humanity

    • @barco111
      @barco111 Час назад +2

      Mutations are the primary source of information, it's called genetic variation

    • @WHAT-bz6hp
      @WHAT-bz6hp Час назад

      @@barco111 Raw matter does not mutate into LIFE INFORMATION and INTELLIGENCE.
      You should try thinking, it has long term benefits.

    • @barco111
      @barco111 57 минут назад +1

      @WHAT-bz6hp im taking about mutations, maybe you need to study biology

  • @BabyUn0
    @BabyUn0 2 часа назад +1

    Christ WON today !!!

    • @Oneocna
      @Oneocna Час назад

      so why do animals suffer before humans existed...and remember idk is not an answer

    • @mohammada3116
      @mohammada3116 Час назад

      Jesus PBUH is no where near u, you're a follower of Paul.

    • @dismaleclipse5587
      @dismaleclipse5587 39 минут назад

      Yay good for you buddy!

  • @AL-oy6cg
    @AL-oy6cg 2 часа назад +2

    Amazing how much interest people are taking in Christian doctrines, scripture, and theology. Men like Cliffe, stuart, godlogic avery, David wood, and right now Wes Huff

    • @Victoriaizoita
      @Victoriaizoita 2 часа назад

      God's not dead, He's surly Alive!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus is King!!!! 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. -Philippians 2:10-11

    • @YouHaveNoKnowledge
      @YouHaveNoKnowledge 2 часа назад

      @Victoriaizoita amen

  • @Victoriaizoita
    @Victoriaizoita 2 часа назад +1

    God's not dead, He's surly Alive!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus is King!!!! 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. -Philippians 2:10-11