What's My Line? - Elsa Maxwell (Apr 12, 1950)
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- I believe this is the first program where the men dressed in formal evening wear, rather than ordinary suits.
MYSTERY GUEST: Elsa Maxwell
PANEL: Dorothy Kilgallen, Louis Untermeyer, Arlene Francis, Hal Block
Yet another episode I would not have been able to post without epaddon contributing it. Many, many thanks again. Video on this one was pretty rough-- I tried to clean it up as best as I could with my amateur software. But it's perfectly watchable and I'm grateful to have a copy at all!
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My grandfather was the announcer on this fun show. Lee Vines RIP. He was the best Pop Pop! Love you Pop. Thanks for posting this and keeping it for future people to enjoy this show. 😊
You have much to be proud of. He did a great job!
This was one of the first few shows of the series, yet Arlene is already picking up on audience reactions. She was always a master at using this to help guess a profession.
I have watch a lot of these shows and I think 'audience reaction' gave away too much.
and yes, if they list off occupations often the audience will give it away
An early episode indeed: the chalkboard hasn’t made its appearance yet, and host John Daly is smoking as he keeps track of whose turn it is.
@@sandwichman100 Yes, show would have been better without an audience. Producer should have instructed audience to not gasp or anything that would have given their occupations away. Don't like studio audiences anyway. They are too giggly and director tries too hard to make them a part of the show.
That is why she was paid more...$1000 a show, when the median wage was $61
@@laurahoward5426 Wow! I've often wondered how much celebrities make on game shows.
I'm so glad they stopped doing the awkward guest walk in front of the panel at the start of each segment. The little requests the panel made of the guests were never helpful and often a little demeaning. The later choice to have the guests shake hands with the panel on the way out was a much better fit with the overall class of the show.
This is one of the rare series that got better with age.
Parker Allen - Check out these “Walk of Shame” clips our channel moderator put together, showing that Arlene suggested on the air getting rid of this awkward routine!
ruclips.net/video/4i0xK4ntUcQ/видео.html
VERY AWKWARD...MEN PANELISS WERE HE WORS...
I think the "guest walk" was helpful. They could look at their clothing, muscle tone and other things to sorta judge what they could do as a living.
@@lauracollins4195 HOOAH! Thank you for posting the link I watched it was great.
First time watching through the series, and I keep seeing so many people say they don't like Mr. Untermeyer. Out of the first episodes I've seen, he seems to be a very sharp man. He's guessed correctly so many times, and he seems like a lovable guy. It's such a shame to find out he ends up leaving the show due to the McCarthy witch hunts. Too many good people lost everything due to it.
I think you mean "Communist-hunts". Untermeyer had a history of contributing to Communist magazines and papers and was a member of the League of American Writers which was a literary association created by the American Communist Party. The organization was affiliated with the International Union of Revolutionary Writers.
He lost his place on WML's panel because the show's sponsor did not want its product associated with a person who wanted a Communist regime in charge of the USA. Untermeyer's claim that signed membership papers and associated with Communists in ignorance, didn't wash. No sympathy for him.
Absolutely no sympathy for people or mobs of people who seek to overthrow democracy
I agree! He's rather adorably bumbling. I've winced a few times, but from what I've seen so far, he's pretty astute. It's devastating to know that people today still judge and condemn somebody like him based simply on his political interests, suspected interests, or reluctance to "fall in line" with the dominant party, for whatever period of time - nothing more un-American than that sort of intolerance. We can at least cherish these few episodes, along with his immense contributions to the literary world. I'm grateful to be able to see him captured on film in these limited episodes.
@@janetaylorparris Very well put!
@@Baskerville22
One thing I'm really enjoying about these early episodes... I love to see the panel get excited about "winning" and guessing the names/lines of the guests. They aren't as reserved as they are in later seasons... shows a more personal side, and engages the viewer more.
This one is really one of the most playful cheerful episodes. I think Mr. Untermeyer and Mr. Block were doing quite fine.
They should do this show today! We probably dont have any celebrities today smart enough to sit on the panel though.
Dorothy Kilgallen was such a sharpie.
Too sharp that's why your government killed her
I love this. They give a panelist a flower as a reward for guessing correctly.
And more than $750 an appearance....
@@laurahoward5426 Wow, almost $9,500 per appearance in today's money!
@@deejay8403 Just think about how much Goodson and Todman must have made!
When John Daly told the second contestant that there was nothing to fear from the panel, he could have added "except for Mr. Block". LOL
You can actually hear Hal saying "Wanna bet?"
oh my gosh, this particular panel 'viewing' of the guests was rather uncomfortable, they may as well have been selecting at an ancient roman slave auction
+Bambi Harris yes i was glad they stopped that
Its demeaning and embarassing.
@@kgs4826 From the outside it may look so but it was early 50's and they were doing it cheerfully. so it was definitely not so.
Only the 4th show but they've gotten a sponsor, separated John from the panel, shored up the panel substantially, and the mystery guest has disguised her voice...refining the show.
I had to look up Elsa Maxwell.
She was really something.
Me too. She was really into a lot.
Mr. Eldridge, per a newspaper article I found on him in 1960, was 70 here. He’d been training animals his whole life, basically, from elephants to chimps to llamas. He semi-retired in 1950, but that mostly meant he went on the road less, and spent more time in Florida.
Not sure about family, because I can't find an obituary.
Article: www.newspapers.com/image/96202252/
Elsa Maxwell. Famous for being famous. American gossip columnist and author, songwriter, and professional hostess renowned for her parties. Years later, she appeared regularly on "The Tonight Show starring Jack Paar." She dumped into his lap one night a particularly wicked piece of gossip about reporter Walter Winchell who she announced did not vote. That certainly added fuel to the Paar-Winchell feud.
Elsa Maxwell also appeared on WML as a panelist on April 15, 1956 and as a semi-mystery guest (panel was blindfolded, she disguised her voice, but she was the first guest, regular contestant rules applied, and Pat O'Brian was considered the mystery guest on that episode) on Oct. 13, 1957.
From this point on it was only upwards, the show got better and better. Many dislike the guest walk in front of the panel but I think its perfectly fine, they were finding out what suited best for them, and ultimately the show came to be what we all love. Its so much fun to watch the early stages of their journey.
Smoking on tv was very common. Cigarette companies sponsored tv shows along with commercials .
Lee Mclaury It should read, “Cigarette companies sponsored TV shows with commercials.” “Along with...” makes for a weird sentence.
Doctors did many of the cigarette commercials. Remember how people smoked everywhere well in to the 70's, movie theater, department stores, grocery stores.
"He could be on 'What's My Lion!'"
I have to admit, I laughed at that.
Elsa Maxwell was the antithesis of a glamour girl but she had something better -- she had CHARACTER. We VALUED character once, but sadly not any more. It's all glitz and GORE today. BOO HOO!
I've already expressed how much I enjoyed this episode, compared to the first three. Now for the quibbles. It was great the way Louis Untermeyer guessed that the first contestant was an "animal trainer," but John should have made the panel guess *what kind* of animal, as I'm sure he would have later on in the run of the series. Also, the chimney sweep volunteered way too much information, and John let it go. In a similar situation, after he had become more proficient in his moderating duties, he would have intervened to admonish the contestant not to give away any more than was asked.
Also, later on in the series, the chimpanzees would not have been considered Mr. Eldridge's clients. John would have concluded that the ultimate "consumers" of his service would be the human audiences that viewed/benefitted from the performances of the animals he trained.
They learned by trial & error. This program is not only entertaining it's also like a study material showing how to identify and fix the right errors :)
I do not know what Gypsy Rose Lee did the week before, but either Gypsy or Elsa were the first to disguise their voices. The panel seemed utterly baffled by the funny voice. The first three mystery guests did not disguise their voices.
soulierinvestments
Was this the 5th episode of the show, then?
Actually, Elsa had a very eloquent speaking voice
after seeing the 'any reasonable demands' I can only imagine what might be an 'unreasonable demand'
I like to remember that this was a new show, one who most of the regulars probably wondered if it would last.
When did they get rid of the 'meat market' session and the free guess, which most played for laughs?
Love the smoking.
The side view of the mystery guest is a wonderful, innovative, almost avante-garde, concept. They should have done this much more often.
Interestingly, there was not even ONE closeup of Elsa Maxwell in the entire segment. Once the style of the show settled down, there was always at least one closeup when the mystery guest first sat down-- but none here!
What's My Line?
18:53 and 19:52 -- don't those shots count as close-ups?
SaveThe TPC Yes, you're right. I was speaking of the usual frontal closeup that we got at least one of in every single other show I've looked at (because these are what I use for the video thumbnails.)
"You're next Mr. Block!" Ouch, Arlene! She's a trip!
"Are you flexing?"
LOL
Seems like the real early shows(s) at least this one, sort of turned into a free for all during the mystery guest part! Pretty funny! Arlene certainly got excited guessing the last gent!
Maybe the only thing they could have kept was the marker and paper instead of going to the chalk board!? I can't imagine having all those signatures ,,from John Wayne , Lucy & Desi , Jayne Mansfield, Robert Mitchum, Nat King Cole....etc etc etc...instead of having them erased. Most of these folks were gone before I was even born but i have thoroughly enjoyed watching these episodes on RUclips for a couple years , thanks for posting!
Walking Trails 777 I wonder if any signatures from the show still exist. Or did they just throw them out.
What appears to be a blackboard in later episodes was actually a holder for heavy black paper or posterboard. Rather than erasing, the chalk signatures were indeed saved, at least sometimes, and are now collector's items. No, I don't know who has them, but in the past have seen mentions of auctions.
Later in the series, John would have made the panel determine what animal Mr. Eldrige, the chimp trainer dealt with. (and yes, Hal Block could have benefited from his expertise)
Untermeyer always called the most pointless conferences.😔
madashell he was the last of the original panel to leave. The original panel was four stuffed shirts.
@@miketheyunggod2534 Dorothy Kilgallen was on the first episode and is not a stuffed shirt.
Elsa Maxwell specialized in being a gossip columnist, upon looking her up on Wikipedia.
What a delight to see Elsa Maxwell!
The 4th episode is lost, but it is believed that this was the first episode with a sponsor, as well as the first episode on Wednesday night, as well as the first episode at Studio 51.
Love the hat the Lawyer wears❤️
The hat!
Not fair to tell the guest not to disguise her voice. That was always part of the fun with these celebrity mystery guest. Also, the audience totally gave away the lawyer's profession and she should have been awarded the full amount. Every $5 the guest received is now $50 of our dollars.
I Agree with both of your comments 100%.
And the LIVE Studio audience there should NOT have been shown the contestants jobs/careers, ONLY those watching at home in front of their TV sets. The LIVE Studio audiences have given, accidentally, the contestants away more than once through the years as long as this show was aired. AND John Daly really needed to shut up and allow the contestants to answer for THEIR OWN jobs/careers, AND he himself would CHEAT with his heavy “hints”. Game shows and Cheating seemed to go hand in hand.
and the hatred for Hal Block continues but he was actually quite a good player.
The guessing capability wasn't the only thing that mattered, I'd take Block's humor over Untermeyer's laryngitis any time but in 1952-1953, Block didn't fit the format of the show.
He’s a bright guy, but still a cretin.
tbh i cant find a episode where i dont dislike his comments/jokes...and i normaly have nothing against sexiest/harsh jokes but i find him very aggresive and disrespectful with it...if this statement makes it clear
Never knew who he was before, but I find him disgusting. 🤢
LOL 19:44 after Arlene asked to have the floor and John gave it to her, Dorothy looked upset or frustrated.
I rather enjoy Mr. Hal Block!
He might wanna tell the audience to tone it down. That lawyer would have gotten more money if not for the audience
In later years he would ask them to guess which animals he trained. Mr. Daly would not leave it at just an animal trainer. Which is as it should be. L O L
This one felt more like the WML I know, the first few were awkward
I know no one will agree with me but both Louis and Hal are growing on me. Louis' seriousness on playing the game is matched by Dorothy's. Hal was fun on this one. This must have been his second or third ep? Anyway, they are definitely better than the two Hoffmans from eps 1-3.
Michael Maloney I'm on record as liking Louis Untermeyer. :) Hal has his good points, too, but I think the producers made 100% the right call replacing him with Steve Allen.
Yep, If Steve Allen is available, grab him!
Having said that, it would have been nice to see them (Louis and Hal) remain apart of the WML family as occasional guest panelists - as MYSTERY guests!!
Michael Maloney I agree. But Hal was reportedly extremely bitter about being fired, where Untermeyer sank into a deep depression for a year after his blacklisting. It would have been nice to see either of them make a return appearance after things had cooled down, though. Untermeyer's career-- his real career-- recovered, but Hal's show business career was essentially over after losing his WML gig. Very sad.
Michael Maloney
Actually, I do agree with you.
SaveThe TPC And I've seen comments from, I think, 3 more people saying that they also like Untermeyer. That makes 6 of us.
The audience laughter helped give away the first one, the animal trainer
Like I said, the 4th episode is lost. But according to Gil Fates' Production Logs, the first female MG was Gypsy Rose Lee.
Co-Pilot on a flying saucer: first time comedy is introduced to the show!
Did they construct the signature stand from stray junk lumber by the producer's 9-year-old son in his backyard shed or something?
Elsa Maxwell should have stuck with the voice. One of the best disguises I've heard on the show. It is so weird watching John Daly smoking like it's nothing. It's weird watching anyone light up on television like it's nothing.
Lighting up a cigarette and smoking is nothing... jeez people make smokers sound like they are ax murderers and beheading people.. jeez... lol...
PepsiMama2 Well, when I smoked I would have agreed with you. I would get angry when criticized over my smoking. After all, it was MY choice, MY body, right?
Now? I do feel more like smokers are on a par with axe murderers. Let me explain. I now have a bad heart. A 5 minute exposure to second-hand smoke hardens a non-smoker's aorta for up to 20 minutes, making my bad heart work harder. Not good. Hurts. I can die, suddenly and right in front of you, from your smoke. No exaggeration.
For your sake, and the sake of your loved ones, STOP SMOKING NOW! I say this with the utmost respect and love. I have first-hand knowledge of what it can do. Please learn from my example!
David Letterman use to do it all the time. Then when he moved to CBS it became a running gag for him to hire behind the desk and light up a cigar, because the new theatre prohibited smoking.
bubblinbrownsugar616 you must be under 30
@@ladya1953 I have severe asthma, triggered by secondhand smoke among other things. So I, too, can die at the hand of smokers. Simply walking into a building from the car can incapacitate me when a smoker is downwind. I understand the addictive nature of cigarettes, but I'll never understand why anyone ever begins smoking with all that is known about their dangers. Certainly back in the WML days they didn't know better yet, though.
bring back stopette
😄😄😄
Notice how big the occupation lettering is. In 1950, the average picture tube size is 9".
The microphones are quite a lot better at picking up panel muttering, here (as opposed to later in the 50s), but the panel themselves can't hear worth a damn.
In these early days Hal was fed lines to ask by the producers to elicit laughs. When this later became apparent, they stopped doing that. (And he was eventually canned for pushing his ribald humor too far.) Not a great loss.
Ive watched various if thesexoff snd on the last few yrs, and indo remember when the show was prime time when i was a kid.
Besides the obvious changes, to the show's protocols & ryles overvtime, i have noticed in these earluest shows that John Daly often smokes openly on stage and canera.
I also notice that in these earliest shows some of the mystery guests did not disguise their voices. Ms Maxwell is the first who has done that.
YIKES. At last I understand why this community calls it the "walk of shame"! Thoroughly demoralizing for poor Arthur. "Are you flexing? Not very flexible"... making any kind of comment on the labels in another person's clothes! I'm aghast. That's not the Arlene I adore!
It's so weird that they smoke on the show, lol. I know it was a different time, it just looks so odd to me.
Dorothy looks a lot better with the new hair-do.
I agree. This is the first show in which they are making more of an effort to make the ladies look better, given the crude technology.
Sad about the audience, on the one hand, they make the show more interesting when they cheer and laugh and then on the other they unfortunately give away the answers
The lighting!! The makeup!!😱
6:04 :"That is a real dirty laugh!" Hal Block could be really cute! ;)
Second contestant, being a lawyer 1950 was quite rare, and Ruth Bader Ginsburg would well remind us.
If she's alive.
This show was desperately PC before It was common. They paraded women who did men's jobs all the time. There was never a man who cut men's hair or was a lawyer or a veterinarian. Watching this boys might wonder was any career open to them.
Elsa has the perfect serial killer hand printing style.
June Harbour is a great name.
In the 1600s before we were America, one profession was outlawed because it was ridiculed, despised, and hated. The lawyer.
I don't like the part at the beginning when the contestants have to walk in front of the panel. I hope they discontinue this part.
I wonder if sponsor Jules Montenier (inventor of Stopette) asked the men to wear tuxedos. Later, of course, as Bennett said in his oral history, he and John found that they could "get by with" dark suits and dress ties (black bow ties).
In later shows John Daly would have given the name of the law firm where Ms Harbor was employed.
The best gameshow in history next to, To Tell The Truth. The episodes from the 50s are the best!
I think it's even better than To Tell the Truth - though I agree that both were great.
These first men on the show were just horrible, except for John Daly….
That WALK OF SHAME was silly and horrible!
John might have lived longer w/o those cigarettes?!
Odd now to see the host smoking while he hosts. How times have changed 😁
One by one I go through and enjoy this show and continue praying that Louis Untermeyer won't be on the next episode... How did they decide and continue to feel he was good for this show???
Maybe he had a piece of it. He may be annoying, but he's a sharp guy.
Loud professional Jew and attention whore
@@internezzo The name you post with reeks of seeking attention, as does your disgraceful comment. Whether you are a "dame or a "phallus", you are a disgusting creep...and your posts should not be allowed.
I’m glad,they stopped the smoking!
I've been to Elgin. It's up by Chicago on the Illinois-Wisconsin border.
no where near Chicago! Way west, and north. 😉
@@bethe192 80 minutes away, pretty short trip.
@@driftkrinsky6537 😊👍
Elgin is a western suburb of Chicago...which is about 60 miles south of Wisconsin border.
3:43 - I think I heard Hal Block making this prticular joke at least once or maybe even twice more during his tenure on this show.
Interstingly noone commented on the fact that this jape actually means that the person in question doesn't look like a human but rather like an alien.
I see it time to fill in on some of the older shows.
Yes, this is the plan from now on, to use the last week of every calendar month to catch up on older shows I missed. Otherwise, we'll keep going in order till we get to the end!
When did CBS get the eye logo. This is April 1950 and the closing logo is definitely not an eye.
October of 1951 is when "the eye" was first used so about a year and a half after this show broadcast.
This is my first first-season (1950s) episode I have watched (I started with late 1951 and onward on RUclips), so I may a bit biased but this episode (and season) seems to be a hot mess: a few of the guests revealed way too much information (way too easily); the panel seemed not to be "held accountable" for sloppy discourse or silly questions as would be the formula for later seasons, and the general vibe of the show is all over the place. I find it interesting that the audience was allowed to be so audible in practically giving away the women's profession as a lawyer with their collective "oohs" and "ahhhs" but were "stone-cold silent" during the mystery guest's intro (as if they were subdued by an off-camera stage manager). I understand that the intent of this show was for entertainment rather than as a game-show where the guests were truly intent on winning a prize (monetary in this case) but this episode makes the show appear too silly to be taken remotely serious (in context of "knowledge sharing" entertainment like one could say of later shows like Jeopardy).
Nevertheless, I enjoyed the episode but not as well as I did the later seasons, where for obvious reasons, they honed their skills and hammered out the technical mistakes to make the show streamline.
At 17:15 Dorothy looks really irritated because of the disguised voice.
At 23:55 Arlene was excited, focused, and driving! She said, "Huh? No conference!" 🤣
It got a little shambolic there during the Elsa segment. Still trying to smooth out the rough edges.
The first contestant is now 150 years old.
10.00 from 1950 in todays money would be 97.03
It's funny how little the prizes are by today's standard... wonder what these people would say if they knew that one day a question show would offer more like a million dollars.
Median week's pay was $61
Macy's Parade Santa Claus?!? From Elgin, Illinois?!?
That HAT! Glory Hallelujah! Ach du lieber!
The episodes from 1950 are almost painful to watch. I'm glad John Daly got control in later episodes.
Based on the surviving information from Gil Fates' production logs, the man shown at 24:48 was either a Weatherman, or a Deep Sea Diver.
He looks more like the Weatherman type, so I'm gonna say the former.
Wow! This show was a big ol' cluster f*@& when it first started. Everyone talked over one another and John Daly didn't seem to have much control. And Hal Block was just weird and creepy, talking way too much in an attempt to make the show all about him. (So glad they got rid of him later on.) Based on this video, it's a wonder the show eventually became so good in succeeding seasons.
There's a huge leap in quality in the shows we have available from 1951. Already here the show is much improved over its first three outings, thanks to the addition of Gil Fates as producer and Franklin Heller as director.
What's My Line? I noticed a huge leap in quality just from the first three episodes to this one! I don't know what the missing 4th episode was like, but this one was just *so much more* entertaining than the first 3! The panel seemed to be relaxed and enjoying themselves, and they seemed comfortable with one another, playing off each other, cheering each other on, applauding each other's successes, etc. Also, the contestants and mystery guests were more fun. A chimpanzee trainer, a chimney sweep, and a quite lovely lady lawyer were all occupations which delighted the audience and seemed to galvanize the panel, who did remarkably well with the game this night. And Elsa Maxwell was a pip! :D
Bennett cerf was my favorite guy. fred allen was amusing too. these guys are bumbling blockheads when it comes to their composure and framing of questions.
I really dislike how the 2 guys constantly talk over/interrupt the girls
Does anyone today read the poems by Louis Untermeyer? Or is he obsolete?
The poet e e cummings apparently thought that he was obsolete years ago. He penned the following vicious epigram back in 1944:
mr u will not be missed
who as an anthologist
sold the many on the few
not excluding mr u
@@jmccracken1963 Ouch!
@@driftkrinsky6537 Sadly, Untermeyer was the most boring, unbearable to watch, panelist of all time (even his voice was irritating and annoying). A total and absolute dud - how this was not evident to those in charge, like G&T, is beyond belief.
I think the woman in the phone booth is medium. A medium named Raya. Take a bow. Well done Medium Raya.
soulierinvestments
Sounds like watching so much Bennett Cerf has gotten to you, too!
Hey. no stealing lines from other shows, Mr. Berle. (I Love Lucy)
soulierinvestments who do you think you are, Hal Block? Lol
Did you hear about the dwarf necromancer that was arrested by the police? He escaped jail, and the next day the newspaper read, "Small Medium At Large."
I wonder how long G-t hired an actor every week to say "What's My Line?" ? I wonder what union scale was in 1950. How much money did an actor get for less than 30 seconds of TV time and three words?
soulierinvestments Wanna bet this gimmick was due to Manos?
dizzyology It's a tough call to make. I don't really understand what the level of control over the first three shows Manos had (the hand of Fates, for those who don't know. . .) To hear him tell it, other than his coming up with the idea of the blindfolds (the truth of which is to say the least questionable), he claims to have had minimal involvement until he was made formal producer after the third show, and that he couldn't believe that the show had lasted even that long given the quality of what he saw when he reviewed the films trying to figure out how to "fix" it. He can't have it both ways, absolving himself of blame for the initial shows to pose as the savior of the program, *and* claim he was there from the beginning contributing ideas. It doesn't add up for me.
But. . . I certainly agree that this opening bit of staged business just reeks of the kind of thing he liked to do. I wish we had any way to get a clearer picture of the history, but we have only his version to go by.
Studio 51 had various past lives before it was demolished in 1960 ibdb.com/venue.php?id=1267 .
Hal Block in the first game. the begins of the gambit. It seems that he was gauging his questions for their laugh value off the track. Gil Fates in his book said that Steve Allen developed the gambit on his own. However, there is some evidence here that might suggest Hal Block started the gambit.
soulierinvestments I interpreted Gil's remark to mean that Steve could follow a gambit-line of questioning without prior input from the staff, not that the technique was first used by Steve. Gil stated that the technique was used only with the kind of comedian who could play for laughs -- and whatever else we say about him, Hal was certainly that. I think this episode probably represents the germination of the gambit technique, though not its full flowering.
dizzyology Not sure I follow completely. . . the way Fates describes the gambits, Steve *did* have direct input from the staff suggesting to him what line of questioning to use. Some folks-- notably epaddon-- believe that some of the gambits were actually fully scripted in advance, with some evidence supporting that notion (nothing totally conclusive, but certainly interesting-- the questions Steve asked in the classic "repairs zippers" segment were repeated verbatim on a later G-T show, can't remember which one epaddon said it was.)
My feeling is that Hal stumbled on the notion of intentionally asking "bad" questions naturally, and it worked so well that the producers eventually decided to guarantee one segment per show would get these kinds of laughs by outright suggesting a line of questioning in advance. (But again, it must be noted for those who don't know the background here that nothing about the gambits affected the outcome of the game at all.)
What's My Line? Oh, Steve was certainly given gambit topics in advance, often. I interpreted Gil's remark to mean that he *could* also do it spontaneously -- just as Hal did in this episode. I think you're exactly right in that the technique of asking questions for laughs came first, and posing gambits to ensure that came afterward.
dizzyology Again, I think I'd have to reread the passage to be totally clear on how Fates phrased it, but my (faulty) memory tells me that he specifically credited Steve for the gambits, if not outright claiming that Steve **invented** them. But more importantly, he didn't give any direct credit to Hal, who absolutely deserved to get full credit for it.
What's My Line? The passage is too long to quote here, but it's on page 24. He certainly doesn't mention Hal Block by name, and he describes Steve as "creating his own gambit without any guidance from us." That could be interpreted as a statement about the origin of the technique, but I don't think it has to be.
But he gambit technique certainly was a matter of evolution, and I think it's fair to say that Hal's questions to the chimp trainer consitute one of the early stages of it.
I think Hal is a good panelist. good questions. He makes me laugh sometimes. Still -- my question about Hal Block at his second broadcast is this: how many writers of comedy worked in New York City in 1950 and why did G-T not hire any of THEM? Was Goodman Ace in New York at that time? Did Larry Gelbart or Mel Brooks already write for Sid Caesar in early 1950?
soulierinvestments Mel Brooks started writing for Sid all the way back on the Admiral Boradway Revue in 1949. Sid paid him out of his pocket, because producer Max Liebman was terrified of Mel and refused to hire him. :) Larry Gelbart was writing for Sid by the time of "Your Show of Shows".
Goodman Ace was always based in NYC, yes, but he was VERY in demand at the time. As you know (but few others will), Ace was head writer of the gargantua radio program "The Big Show" from 1950-52 on NBC, so there was no chance of his working for CBS at the time. Thereafter he became the highest paid comedy writer on television for many years, sadly though, writing mostly for programs that were far beneath his talent (The Milton Berle Buick program, and for many years, the Perry Como Show).
+What's My Line? A common misconception about Larry Gelbart: he NEVER wrote for Your Show of Shows. He didn't start writing for Caesar until "Ceasar's Hour". I actually got this bit of info from Gelbart himself; I actually got a chance to correspond with him through email a few years before he died. RIP LG
Frank Sadat Interesting-- thanks for the info. It's a shame that there's never really been a great book published about these series, so hard info is pretty difficult to come by. I knew that Woody Allen didn't start writing for Sid till after "Caesar's Hour", for the specials that followed (collaborating with Gelbart), but I really thought Gelbart wrote for YSOS also (obviously). They didn't even try to make clear who wrote for which shows in the wonderful "Caesar's Writers" special.
Frank Sadat Also, Frank, given your knowledge and interest, if you're not already aware, you might want to check out my Sid Caesar channel, which has a great deal of extremely rare material:
ruclips.net/channel/UCaco274Tej4ZhYWflk4B6lw
+What's My Line? I've been hooked on WML thanks to you. Long time viewer, first time commenter. lol Also, Sid Caesar is one of my personal heroes, so I will DEFINITELY be checking that out! Thanks
Glad they eventually dropped the contestants doing awkward thongd for the panel and taking the wild guesses.
CIRCUS CHIMPANZEE TRAINER
LAWYER
CHIMNEY SWEEP
Today's Rerun episode for Thursday, 4/23/15
What's My Line? Watching this as a "rerun," immediately after the first 3 episodes is an entirely different experience for me than watching it for the first time after getting used to the more polished version of the show was. As I mentioned elsewhere on this page, I see a tremendous improvement in this episode over the first three and found it so much more fun to watch. I noticed that at 1:23, John says "welcome to the first in the new series of 'What's My Line?' presented by Stopette." What is it that made it a "new series?" After all, this was the 5th episode, I believe, and it wasn't a new season or anything. So was it the fact that they had a sponsor for the first time? Or was it because they had a newly configured "permanent" panel? Because of the new studio and broadcast time? Or some combination of these factors? I have to say that I was surprised to find that this collection of panelists really seemed to "gel" and to perform extremely well together. It's such a shame that we have so few remaining examples of their collaboration on WML. I would really love to see more and to be able to chart more of the evolution of the show from the beginning on up, but alas... there are so *many* missing episodes! I thought Hal Block was terrific in this episode -- was it his first time on the show, or had he been on the previous episode as well? Even Louis Untermeyer seemed utterly charming and endearing, rather than stuffy, when seen as part of the Hal, Arlene, Dorothy team. All four of them seemed to be having fun with the game and with each other, and they were just so much more "on" than they'd been in any of the previous three episodes. They did a great job of working together to correctly guess every single one of the contestants, too!
SaveThe TPC I think what made it a "new series" is a combination of a couple of factors: (1) The show had been off the air for almost a full month between the the 4th (lost) episode and this 5th show. (2) The series was now aired on a different night (alternate Wednesdays instead of alternate Thursdays) and now had a sponsor (the prior programs were aired "sustaining", meaning no sponsor had been found yet. In fact, the probable reason why the first 3 shows survive is that the films were doubtless shopped around to prospective sponsors.)
The loss of the majority of these early shows is a shame for those of us who like to see the history of its development unfold, and particularly sad for the memory of Hal Block and Louis Untermeyer's participation to establishing the show. I'm of the firm belief that if we had more of these early shows available, people would be at least a little less critical of these guys than they generally are. With the show so different than what it became, we have too small a sample to get well-adjusted to the different style and appreciate it for what it was. This is even more true if, as you described, you watch one of these early shows right after or before watching one of the polished ones. It's just so jarring to see, I think it throws people and they take it out a bit unfairly on the two panelists we're not all that familiar with.
Hal Block, in particular, I have no doubt fit in much better with the early, unpolished shows than he did later on. The show just outgrew him. If we had more of the early shows available, I think more people would understand how fundamentally sad this is, rather than simply hating on Hal-- most of the shows we have available to see with him were already from the point when the show had outgrown him. But even Gil Fates, who was pretty darned harsh on Hal in his book, makes sure to give him full credit for helping put the series on the map. This has been all but ignored by WML fans who are (understandably) put off by his crudeness.
What's My Line?
Well put! You make a lot of interesting points here, and I agree with you.
SaveThe TPC It's odd to even think of WML airing at any time other than Sunday nights at 10:30PM, isn't it? WML was still aired on an alternate Wednesdays schedule until October 1950, when it moved to a weekly Sunday evening broadcast. I'm not sure if it was aired at 10:30PM immediately upon moving to Sunday nights. I could figure it out, but it will take a bit of checking.
What's My Line?
It also seems hard to imagine any show gaining tremendous popularity when it is only aired every other week, but I know that many early television shows started out with that type of schedule, so I guess people were used to it in those days. Do you know what time the Wednesday and Thursday night broadcasts aired?
I thin k thast was soooooo weird, in these eaRLIEST WML's, that the contestant let the paNELISTs feel them or look at the baCK side of a young woman.
When the audience laugh at your profession
I think they were hysterically happy to be in a theater.....
i still cant get over the smoking on screen
It was normal back then.
Edit: additional info-there are episodes in which Mystery Guests Milton Berle, George Burns, and Ed Murrow smoke onscreen.
Dave Chivell gardner you must be a millennial. 🙄
It was 71 years ago and quite normal
@@Mr1930s get a life will u. I prefer people smoking on screen instead of being naked and having sex scenes. I miss smoking in cafes.
@@miketheyunggod2534 we millenials dont claim it. We smoked in cafes and restaurants. Must b another gen
It’s interesting to read everyone’s comments about smoking (though gratifying that so many find it distasteful and unhealthy). I take it that many of the comments spring from younger people, so perhaps some context would be helpful.
At least by the 1930s-40s (probably the 20s) peer pressure led nearly everyone to smoke. It had been promoted as sophisticated, glamorous, and was even sold as a healthful practice. It was so ubiquitous and publicly misunderstood-and addictive-that soldiers in World War II were issued cigarettes. The pressure to be included as a smoker was equivalent to the need people feel today to be accepted on Facebook. An older teen who didn’t smoke was sort of a social outcast.
Any ill effects that were known to the tobacco companies were of course never mentioned. It wasn’t until the emphysema and lung cancer started showing up years later that anyone thought it a poor idea. I remember pallid, bluish, listless people with serious lung disease. I haven’t seen that in decades, thankfully. People believed that filter cigarettes captured all the bad stuff. Well, no.
When essentially everyone smoked, almost no one was offended. It was considered fashionable to smoke on TV and in movies. If someone smoked next to you, you were either a smoker yourself, or you were completely used to being surrounded in smoke. I can remember very few homes where the ashtrays weren’t everywhere, and of course every restaurant table had one.
I grew up in the 60s. As a kid I was always in a cloud of secondhand smoke except in the classroom. I can remember only a few people who didn’t smoke. I’m certain that my mother began as a result of peer pressure. By 1975 she was dying of lung cancer. My dad quit “cold turkey” about that time. After two weeks, I remember him talking about the things he could smell for the first time since the 30s or 40s. My mother died at 51. My dad lived to 89.
I detest the stench of cigarettes, though as a kid I didn’t notice it. I have chronic bronchitis, no doubt due to the secondhand smoke that clouded around me from birth to age 16. It was so odd that the wheezing and coughing of those generations of smokers never seemed to alarm anyone. It seemed like every doctor smoked.
I can still remember the resistance to the ban on cigarette TV commercials in the early 70s. Though the health evidence by then was conclusive, it was so culturally ingrained. I remember the push in the 80s to stop people smoking, and it worked. Smokers became few, restaurants established nonsmoking sections. Some of those still smoking were quite irritated, but the tide had turned. But I also remember an increase later on.
Every generation seems to learn the hard way. People will always promote and consume what they want, no matter how bad it is for them.
Some of your diatribe is not true. NEARLY EVERYONE ia a ridiculous conclusion to draw because your family smoked...The largest indicator of smoking, is if your parents smoked, and no one in my large extended family, in Texas, smoked...
2:38 A girl said that to me once 😂😂😂