A very nice and tasteful treatment of this story. Learning about Lewis and Clark was one of my major interests as a child. A year and a half ago my PhD research took me to Natchez Trace SP - a little west of where you were - and en route my wife and I stopped at the grave to pay our respects. A very solemn experience. If you’re ever back in the area of central Tennessee, Shiloh NMP and the Tennessee State Museum in Nashville are both worth a visit.
Thank you for your video. I canoed and walked the L&C Trail in 2004/05 with my dog UB. Started at the mouth of the Columbia and ended in St Louis (did their east to west trail in reverse). Portaged all the dams under our own power, and we still had it a hundred times easier than those guys. It was a wonderful life changing experience!
Really. That is awesome. We moved out here a few years ago from WA. We lived just over an hour from where the Lewis and Clark journey ended on the Columbia River. Anyway if yall would like help moving in let me know.
I live 20 mins from this site in Lawrenceburg Tn, and learned about Lewis & Clark in school . Never knew until I stumbled upon this it was here. Nearby is also The Shiloh Battlefield, Natchez trace is very historical. Imo Mrs grinder was complicit in his death.
The Meriwether Lewis Memorial Site is property of the National Park Service and the its troublesome and possibly historical sin that the park service has refused the exhumation of Lewis for forensic study. With the medical tools and techniques available today we could have much, much better understanding of what actually happened to Lewis.. One thing that is not taught in high schools is there is some evidence Lewis suffered from syphilis a disease which can lead to madness. He wrote in his diaries about the symptoms and the degree to which the Shoshoni were infected with Syphilis. Eight of the Lewis and Clark Expedition were later diagnosed with syphilis. He was prescribed Mercury which at the time was the treatment for syphilis. Perhaps you remember the Civil War saying, “A night with Venus means a lifetime with Mercury.” Mercury is a substance that can lead to madness. Modern DNA testing could prove or disprove the VD theory as a reason for Lewis’s demise and modern testing could also lend credence to the suicide /murder theories as well. But the NPS won’t allow the memorial to be opened..
That is all true. I read that was as well while researching. The NPS feels it may set a precedent that other graves can be exhumed and there could be some damage to the other pioneers graves around Lewis since they were buried so close together. But I 💯 agree with you exhuming his body would answers all the questions family has about what happened that night as far as was it murder or suicide. They want to do bullet trajectories as well.
I'd seen something a few years ago that people researching the Lewis & Clark voyage were looking for mercury presence in soil around suspected campsites. Mercury used for centuries to address gastric and digestive problems. Water, in streams and some spring, while clear and fresh smelling, often contained bacteria, microscopic parasites, etc. that would infect gut.(Although it wouldn't be until later part of 19th century, through Pasture, Lister and others recognized the 'germ' theory.) Physicians of Lewis's era recognized that mercury would treat the symptoms of these infections, thus often used by those traveling as a 'stomach' remedy. The campsites often had a latrine, a hole dug to contain feces, and that feces would contain small amounts of the mercury used to treat the symptoms of gut problems. Among the side affects of mercury are mental health issue ("mad as a hatter" since mercury also used in hat making in past) and this may ave contributed to the mental health issues ascribed the Lewis. .
It was also the treatment of choice for venereal diseases. Lewis most likely had Malaria, or the “Ague” it was called. The locals around the Tavern area held an oral tradition that Lewis was rolled and murdered. This was a rough trail at the time.
Mercury, as well as sassafras was used at the time to treat venereal disease. There seemed to be a lot of cases then. I have read that it was used on the expedition specifically for this treatment.
@@RoyatAvalonFarms Mercury was used to treat lots of medical ailments. Mercury as a pure metal, not readily absorbed by body, was harmful, but when mercury combined with other molecules formed mercury salts that were easily absorbed ,often entering and affecting the nervous system.
I knew that Lewis had come to a bad end not too long after the expedition, but this filled in a lot of the details. The biggest revelation for me here was that he was just 35 at the time of his death.
@WalkwithHistory history is so interesting!! I live 20 mins from here. Shiloh battlefield is close as well. Imo Mrs grinder was culpable in his murder. Maybe made a pass at her ?
Last thing I promise, he was tasked w if there was a land claim on the property Pres Jefferson had just purchased, also called The Louisiana Purchase. This poss cld be why he was murdered? It wld mean someone else owned the whole middle of the US. Thank you for the video !!!
We just published our podcast where we talk about about these “theories” of his death. There was another cabin on property right beside this main cabin where the kitchen was. That is where Mrs Griner stayed the night with her children. That is why she heard everything that night, or claimed to.
Another good job on this video young lady ! Up here in Montana there is a huge rock called " pompies pillar " ( excuse the spelling ) where Clark scribed his name into it . Today it is incased in a glass box cause the rock is sandstone and it is very easy to scribe into it has cameras around it to keep people honest .. W. M. CLARK JULY 6 1806 , I PRETTY SURE THATS THE DATE. you should do a video on that. THANK YOU FRANK FROM MONTANA....PS it's about 20 miles east of billings.....
As usual great work. The death of Lewis is either a classic suicide story or one of the great closed room mysteries ever. Who knows. The Natchwz Trace is wonderful and may offer other video opprtunities.
Lewis was better off on the move, with immediate and practical tasks ahead of him. The settled life of a governor allowed the dark clouds of depression to sink in. A sad end to a great explorer.
I just wanted to throw in my two cents that it is absolutely possible to shoot oneself in the head and not die right away, or at all. I have a family member that is in law enforcement and once came upon a man who had attempted this in his car in a parking lot, but was still alive. He survived. My opinion is, as crazy as it seems, Lewis absolutely could have shot himself twice. Great video, BTW!
I have a different history to tell, one told to me by a member of the Clark family: When Lewis asked Clark to be part of the expedition it was because the men they took with them recognized Clark as the Captain of the expedition. Lewis asked the Government to give Clark the rank of Captain, but they refused so Lewis called him Captain without the recognized rank because he knew the men would not follow Lewis, but they would Clark. The supplies were purchased and signed for by Clark and after the expedition was over the Government wouldn't pay the bills because they said Clark didn't have the rank to sign for them. If you ask the Government today (and I have), they say that all the debts were paid by them, but I think they didn't consider those signed by Clark to be their debts. After they returned, and the Government refused to pay the debts his friend signed for Lewis was yes, very depressed. The Clark family spent several generations paying off the debt. I can't tell you which Clark family member told me this story, but it should be more looked into.
The notebooks that Lewis were carrying disappeared. It is good to talk about the death, but there is much more about this topic...such as in addition to the northwest passage discovery, Jefferson was also interested in the topic of the giants written about.
Good video young lady . there is a huge rock on the Yellowstone river where W. M. CLARK carved his name into it. Today it's a park the initials are under a glass case the rock is sandstone and not very strong .plenty of cameras . You should do a video on that. It's about 20 miles east of billings on the river. THANK YOU FRANK FROM MONTANA PS.. good video....
@@donnabrowne5307 if you ever get the chance you should go see that it's the only proof that they really did that trip. It's History .. THANK you for your response. I'm sure you can find it on the computer. What state are you living in ?
I grew up on a 13-house dead-end street right on the Wood River-about a mile from where L&C made Camp DuBois, their starting point for the expedition. The whole area is rich in L&C history and lore.
Lewis was a man of high ideals. While he was active, he could keep his demons at bay, but when he stopped, they sometimes got the better of him. He kept a fairly consistent record until on the way back, one of his companions shot him in the butt. He quit his record keeping after that. If you review Jefferson's orders for that expedition, you will realize it was mostly unattainable. Lewis' reports upon his return were seriously lacking. He was burdened with alleged venereal disease, alcohol, drugs, and guilt, and an insurmountable anger with himself for his failures on the Voyage of Discovery, and he shot himself.
Great video! I have read Ambrose book, it's a great read and I agree with his opinion that Lewis committed suicide. His past history and family history show that he had this problem. Very sad to think that after all he did for our country that he couldn't live to enjoy it.
Didn’t Clark drink himself to death? Anyway, I don’t think it was a suicide. Why shoot yourself in the chest reload in immense pain and shoot yourself in the head? You didn’t say how many guns, if any, were found. Just my humble opinion
There were 2 - one bullet pistols. And the historians say it was the head shot that was first. That part of 2 shots, with the head shot first that made me go 🤔
William Clark was quite successful, post Lewis & Clark Expedition. He was the 4th governor of the Louisiana / Missouri Territory to 1820 [ Louisiana Territory was renamed Missouri Territory in 1812, to avoid confusion with the newest State of Louisiana]. Clark then became the 1st Superintendent of the Bureau of Indian Affairs 1822 to his death in 1838 at age 68. Lewis was carrying two flintlock pistols. He had been carrying them for a week or more loaded, so it is likely the powder charges had drawn dampness and were too weak to inflict a fatal wound. Lewis was not in a sane state of mind, according to those who traveled down the Mississippi River from St Louis with him. Lewis' original plan was to travel by river boat to New Orleans, then get a ship to Washington D.C. Without any rational explanation, Lewis suddenly departed at Natchez, MS to go overland to Washington DC. Choosing an arduous, long overland journey in place of a relatively easy river/ocean voyage, is NOT sane thinking. Lewis, sadly at that time in 1809, was just a shadow of the Lewis of just a few years earlier. Lewis committed suicide, plain and simple.
All signs lead to murder over suicide. First, it is hardly plausible that one can inflicted two deadly shots in unison to the gravity of the particular situation. Eather wound would render someone incapable of further self-infliction. Second, the technology that renders one person to fire a second shot within a short time span wouldn't exist for another 55+ years. Upon discharging the first self-inflicted, fatal shot, Lewis had to regroup and mustard the strength to reload a flintlock revolver. 😎
That is what I thought too. Plus they say he shot himself in the head first, so he is doing all that with a bullet through his skull? Yeah, I don’t think so.
Thanks for sharing this bit of history. I remember reading about this in Ambrose's book and just accepted it to be a suicide. I've read through many of the comments below and your responses and I agree with you conclusion. Shooting yourself in the head first and then shooting yourself in the gut with flintlock pistols seems implausible. I guess it's one of those stories in history people will speculate about for all time.
How could this have ever been considered a suicide? In 1809 all handguns/pistols were single shot flintlock style. To have been shot twice he would need to have two weapons. But more than that, how does a person shoot themselves once and still have the presence of mind to shoot another time? It just doesn't make sense.
What mysterie? He was a high functioning bipolar individual! That killed himself! He had a history of mode swings even before the expedition! Lewis was saved more than a few times by Clark! He was supposed to complete a book about the expedition experience but couldn't focus his thoughts! And some suggested the reason why he chose the cabin on the same trail they used! maybe hoping Clark would save him from himself! Being depressed during an expedition while trying to find the Northwest passage, while almost being killed by the Sioux, Grissley Bears or being lost in the wilds & starving only to be saved by Nez Perez! Kinda makes mode swings disappear while being surrounded by fellow explorers or indians! It's during the time of being alone and the squirming toad, that's called a Brain between the ears, is the dangerous time! After all he accomplished! There was probably a let down! Like after a women gives birth! The Baby Blues! I'm thinking after all the life ending situations they dealt with? Coming back to civilization was probably a bummer! Ask any Vietnam Vet. It's not the fire fights or deaths in country! It's coming back to the world, no longer attached to a unit or having a purpose. The Ghost comes flooding back! That destroys your soul! Especially if a bipolar person is in a manic state! Lewis & Clark were unique individuals that together made a good team! Lewis couldn't handle being an individual again! He was lost!
I don't understand why he made that voyage without at least two or three people with him traveling alone such a long distance by yourself is very very dangerous and reckless, remember these are frontier areas lightly populated and many natural dangers from weather to animals
Thank you for watching and thank you so much for the feedback! We’re always trying to adjust and tweak things like that and your feedback definitely helps. We’ll keep getting better! 😊
I think the suicide story is highly implausable. While yes, a guy could survive a head shot to make a second shot, there are too many skepticle pieces to this. First, if that much of the head is destroyed, then the second shot could not be made. Second, a gut shot is NOT an immediate fatal shot and very painful. For one who is contemplating suicide to "end the pain and torment", shooting yourself in the gut is NOT the way to do that. And if you were to ever get shot by someone else in a skirmish, being gutshot is not how you want to be left. I think you said the lady at the Inn heard 2 gun shots the night before. Would you not go out to explore and find out what happened? Its not like you could not hear that from a nearby house. More than likely, he was attacked by robbers or possibly got drunk and came on to the Mrs of the house and her husband went out to "take care of him". Maybe told his wife not to pay any attention to noises or something like that. Additional questions i have include why he went to Nashville to start with. This is a VERY unlikely route to get from St Louis to Washington DC. He could have taken the Ohio R up to Pittsburg and port over to the Potomic, or could have went down the Miss R to the Gulf and Atlantic. Nashville is WAY out of the way for either of those logical routes. And Jefferson was a very intelligent man. He should have known better than to just accept the report of suicide by gutshot and to be in Nashville, so far out of the way. I smell some rotten fish in this whole scenario.
William Clark, one half of the famous Lewis and Clark expedition, is buried in Bellefontaine Cemetery in St. Louis, Missouri. His grave is marked by a 35-foot granite obelisk on a pedestal, located in the northern part of the cemetery near the Broadway Avenue entrance and above Meadow Lane. The monument sits on a hill that overlooks the Mississippi River.
Interesting. That hasn’t been our experience with our kids. Now maybe the depth of American history could use some work, but its definitely being taught at least at some level. Thank you for watching! 😊
Jane Randolph Jefferson is my 6th great grandmother. Thomas Jefferson being her oldest son and Randolph being the youngest. Randolph had a twin sister. Jane also had a sister, who married a Lewis. They had twins together. Unfortunately, to prove southern stereotypes correct, these cousins married. So, Merriweather was essentially Thomas Jeffersons extended family, related to him by marriage through his mother and his brother. Thats how close they were. Also, around the time Merriweather was killed, Randolphs oldest son went on an adventure that took him into the future Alabama and up to the Natchez Trace and then over to the Red River valley. No good reason for this trip but it does coincide with the timing of Merriweathers death and the dissappearance of parts.of.his journal.
@WalkwithHistory it has been one of the things that is mentioned in family intrigue. The Burr scandal being another. I've personally always believed he may have been involved in something that caught up to him, the question to me always was, would it have implicated the sitting president....
Good story. My blood has some roots in the Mississippi river valley this I know. So i ask who gave the land to politicians to sell? From what I understand it wasnt for sale
I believe the government believed they owned it after the Louisiana Purchase. They bought it from France. How it did France come to own all that land? It pre-dates America as a country.
French explorers traveled up the Miss River and down from the Great Lakes looking mostly for furs. But they made claims under authority of the King of France. After the French and Indian War, as part of the terms of the treaty, France gave up claims between the lakes and the Ohio River and between PA and the Miss River, giving it to Britain. But France kept its claims west of the Miss. River. Later, when Jefferson became president, he purchased that western territory from France who had been wrecked financially after the American Revolution through their own revolution. They could not afford to maintain that land and also needed funds, so they sold the land to the US, which at least doubled the size of the US at that time. Right or wrong about land claims, that is how it was done. And the Pope had made a decree around the 15th Century or so on which European countries could make claims to which part of the undeveloped world that they explored. So it all stemmed back to that.
Ok I have to stop at 5:34. A climatic point to deduce the multiple gunshot suicide. I understand that a person can be committed to kill themselves but by multiple gunshots? On an expedition that feels more akin to being sent to man an outpost at the South Pole for committing grave mistakes on duty. This Lewis fella was sent “walkabout” in uncharted territory amidst warring Indians, real grizzlies and mountain lions. (Not the kind that pose for selfies today in our parks). Spending fortunes along the way to come back with notebooks. Not gold but notebooks. The story well told isn’t so far out of grasping what really happened. “You spent what and brought back what?” They used flintlocks back then, it takes great skill to hold the pause long enough to take the shot and this guy did it more than once. Hmm. “I’ll take “wonkey” for $200 Alex”.
Yeah. That is why I lay out the facts as they are because even to me suicide by 2 separate pistols that didn’t carry out the job fully sounds far fetched. But it still holds as the most probable theory
@@rickeys take two 22 ounce east-wing framing hammers. The goal is to smash your toe twice. When you strike with the first hammer you will scream out for all of heaven to save you from that pain. No go right ahead and do this with the second hammer because you’re so committed to hitting that same mark twice. “Ain’t gonna happen”! Net even with this flintlocks of old style. I don’t care how depressed you think you are. Pain wins every time.
No historian really knows. “Sometime before he disembarked at Fort Pickering, at today’s Memphis, Tennessee, from the boat that was carrying him down river, Lewis had twice attempted to commit suicide. In an affidavit or deposition recorded two years after Lewis’s death, on 26 November 1811, Gilbert Russell, who had been in command of Fort Pickering when Lewis arrived, stated, “[T]he Commanding officer of the Fort on discovering his situation, and learning from the Crew that he had made two attempts to Kill himself, in one of which he had nearly succeeded, resolved at once to take possession of him and his papers, and detain them there untill he recovered, or some friend might arrive in whose hands he could depart in safety.”Neither Russell nor any other contemporary provided any more precise details of these incidents. No historian has ever ascertained just how Governor Lewis tried to commit suicide during his journey from St. Louis to Fort Pickering. More likely these suicide attempts occurred between New Madrid and Fort Pickering. Russell’s statement, “in one of which he had nearly succeeded,” is perplexing. It’s hard to believe this can refer to a suicide attempt involving pistols. No witness noticed any wounds on Lewis’s body before the final night at Grinder’s Inn. It is possible that, in a drunken or deranged state, Lewis brandished weapons-guns, his knife, his razor-and announced his intention to kill himself, but was physically subdued until he calmed down, passed out, or fell asleep. It is possible that he attempted to drown himself. For a man of his physical strength, however, that would be easier said than done. Thomas Danisi and John Jackson argue that these “suicide” attempts were responses to a severe bout of ague or malaria. “Unable to bear it any longer,” they write, “in a complex state of inescapable pain and intoxication, stepping over the side into the enveloping waters may have seemed the only way to end the torture.” This is a little melodramatic, but so indeed was Lewis. The phrase, “two attempts to Kill himself,” can cover a lot of ground, from the drunken ravings of a self-pitying man to a genuine attempt to take one’s own life. Improbable though all this sounds, there is no good reason to doubt Russell’s testimony. This is the sort of thing one might exaggerate, but not make up.”
That is one of the questions I had. And they say he shot himself in the head first. So he shot off half his head then had the awareness to get his other pistol and shoot himself in the gut?? It just seems strange.
The evidence for Wilkinson assassinating Lewis consists of four parts: (1) the general’s reputation as an assassin; (2) proof that the suicide account of Lewis’s death is a lie; (3) A cover-up produced by Wilkinson, known as the “Russell Statement”; (4) his involvement with liberating Mexico after Lewis’s death.
I watched your video and I was glad that you did it to inform people of the details surrounding his death. I heard you mention he was Thomas Jefferson's personal Secretary. But I wanted to inform you that I am related to William Clark. He was my 4th Great Grandfather's 1st cousin. His Mother's Maiden Name was Ann Rogers and she married Capt. John Clark and became Ann Rogers Clark. His older brother was Brigadier General George Rogers Clark. The Founding Father of the Illinois Territory that became 5 States. However I and them were almost certainly related to Thomas Jefferson. As his Paternal Grandmother's Maiden Name was Jane Rogers. Her ancestry, I have only been able to trace back a couple of generations. But almost certainly she was related as we were related to virtually all of the Rogers in Virginia.
Want to know more about his mysterious death? talkwithhistory.com/lewis
A very nice and tasteful treatment of this story. Learning about Lewis and Clark was one of my major interests as a child. A year and a half ago my PhD research took me to Natchez Trace SP - a little west of where you were - and en route my wife and I stopped at the grave to pay our respects. A very solemn experience.
If you’re ever back in the area of central Tennessee, Shiloh NMP and the Tennessee State Museum in Nashville are both worth a visit.
Thank you for your video. I canoed and walked the L&C Trail in 2004/05 with my dog UB. Started at the mouth of the Columbia and ended in St Louis (did their east to west trail in reverse). Portaged all the dams under our own power, and we still had it a hundred times easier than those guys. It was a wonderful life changing experience!
Thank you for this video. Have studied books about the incident never have seen where it happened.
So happy we could show it to you!
Dang I wish had known yall where going to be here. I live 30 minutes from where you filmed this. Great job on yet another informative video
Oh we will be back. We are moving to Tennessee in the next couple of months.
Really. That is awesome. We moved out here a few years ago from WA. We lived just over an hour from where the Lewis and Clark journey ended on the Columbia River. Anyway if yall would like help moving in let me know.
So sad. He was so young. I do wish the family would have had an answer about whether it was suicide or not though.
Very true
I live 20 mins from this site in Lawrenceburg Tn, and learned about Lewis & Clark in school . Never knew until I stumbled upon this it was here. Nearby is also The Shiloh Battlefield, Natchez trace is very historical. Imo Mrs grinder was complicit in his death.
The Meriwether Lewis Memorial Site is property of the National Park Service and the its troublesome and possibly historical sin that the park service has refused the exhumation of Lewis for forensic study. With the medical tools and techniques available today we could have much, much better understanding of what actually happened to Lewis..
One thing that is not taught in high schools is there is some evidence Lewis suffered from syphilis a disease which can lead to madness. He wrote in his diaries about the symptoms and the degree to which the Shoshoni were infected with Syphilis. Eight of the Lewis and Clark Expedition were later diagnosed with syphilis. He was prescribed Mercury which at the time was the treatment for syphilis. Perhaps you remember the Civil War saying, “A night with Venus means a lifetime with Mercury.” Mercury is a substance that can lead to madness.
Modern DNA testing could prove or disprove the VD theory as a reason for Lewis’s demise and modern testing could also lend credence to the suicide /murder theories as well. But the NPS won’t allow the memorial to be opened..
That is all true. I read that was as well while researching. The NPS feels it may set a precedent that other graves can be exhumed and there could be some damage to the other pioneers graves around Lewis since they were buried so close together. But I 💯 agree with you exhuming his body would answers all the questions family has about what happened that night as far as was it murder or suicide. They want to do bullet trajectories as well.
Yes, I read that they were worried about the desacration of other graves.@@WalkwithHistory
I'd seen something a few years ago that people researching the Lewis & Clark voyage were looking for mercury presence in soil around suspected campsites. Mercury used for centuries to address gastric and digestive problems. Water, in streams and some spring, while clear and fresh smelling, often contained bacteria, microscopic parasites, etc. that would infect gut.(Although it wouldn't be until later part of 19th century, through Pasture, Lister and others recognized the 'germ' theory.) Physicians of Lewis's era recognized that mercury would treat the symptoms of these infections, thus often used by those traveling as a 'stomach' remedy. The campsites often had a latrine, a hole dug to contain feces, and that feces would contain small amounts of the mercury used to treat the symptoms of gut problems. Among the side affects of mercury are mental health issue ("mad as a hatter" since mercury also used in hat making in past) and this may ave contributed to the mental health issues ascribed the Lewis. .
Huh...hadn't heard that.
Oh, I’ve heard of that research very recently, but, can’t remember where I heard or read it!!!
It was also the treatment of choice for venereal diseases. Lewis most likely had Malaria, or the “Ague” it was called. The locals around the Tavern area held an oral tradition that Lewis was rolled and murdered. This was a rough trail at the time.
Mercury, as well as sassafras was used at the time to treat venereal disease. There seemed to be a lot of cases then. I have read that it was used on the expedition specifically for this treatment.
@@RoyatAvalonFarms Mercury was used to treat lots of medical ailments. Mercury as a pure metal, not readily absorbed by body, was harmful, but when mercury combined with other molecules formed mercury salts that were easily absorbed ,often entering and affecting the nervous system.
I live in Macon County TN. I might have to make a trip down that way. Thanks for another great video.
You should!
I somehow never get tired of stories about Lewis and Clark.
Us too 😊
I knew that Lewis had come to a bad end not too long after the expedition, but this filled in a lot of the details. The biggest revelation for me here was that he was just 35 at the time of his death.
Yes. Such an interesting and mysterious story.
An epic trek of great importance in American history, but not given the attention that it deserves. Nice video.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Keep learning new things from you. Great video
THANK YOU for this video! I was not aware of any of this. Very interesting and informative!
Thank you for watching. We were amazed too about how much we learned.
@WalkwithHistory history is so interesting!! I live 20 mins from here. Shiloh battlefield is close as well. Imo Mrs grinder was culpable in his murder. Maybe made a pass at her ?
The story goes she gave him the whole hse, where did she stay? Servants ,where were they. Who all was on the property
Last thing I promise, he was tasked w if there was a land claim on the property Pres Jefferson had just purchased, also called The Louisiana Purchase. This poss cld be why he was murdered? It wld mean someone else owned the whole middle of the US. Thank you for the video
!!!
We just published our podcast where we talk about about these “theories” of his death. There was another cabin on property right beside this main cabin where the kitchen was. That is where Mrs Griner stayed the night with her children. That is why she heard everything that night, or claimed to.
Another good job on this video young lady ! Up here in Montana there is a huge rock called " pompies pillar " ( excuse the spelling ) where Clark scribed his name into it . Today it is incased in a glass box cause the rock is sandstone and it is very easy to scribe into it has cameras around it to keep people honest .. W. M. CLARK JULY 6 1806 , I PRETTY SURE THATS THE DATE. you should do a video on that. THANK YOU FRANK FROM MONTANA....PS it's about 20 miles east of billings.....
Great video I didn’t know what had happened to Lewis after his expedition. I know about trek but little about the man. Thank you!
You’re welcome! And thank you for joining us 😊
As usual great work. The death of Lewis is either a classic suicide story or one of the great closed room mysteries ever. Who knows. The Natchwz Trace is wonderful and may offer other video opprtunities.
A mystery indeed! Great idea…off to research some Natchez trace history!
Lewis was better off on the move, with immediate and practical tasks ahead of him. The settled life of a governor allowed the dark clouds of depression to sink in. A sad end to a great explorer.
Agreed
Also i have heard that people who live outside do not like living constrained in a house.
That changes something in them for good.
I feel as though I’ve learned more from you than I have from my own history professor
😊
I just wanted to throw in my two cents that it is absolutely possible to shoot oneself in the head and not die right away, or at all. I have a family member that is in law enforcement and once came upon a man who had attempted this in his car in a parking lot, but was still alive. He survived. My opinion is, as crazy as it seems, Lewis absolutely could have shot himself twice. Great video, BTW!
Just listened to the pod cast on the way home from work, tonight. I learned a lot from the pod cast and had to watch the video, when I got home.
It’s a very interesting event in history. Thank you for listening and watching.
I have a different history to tell, one told to me by a member of the Clark family:
When Lewis asked Clark to be part of the expedition it was because the men they took with them recognized Clark as the Captain of the expedition. Lewis asked the Government to give Clark the rank of Captain, but they refused so Lewis called him Captain without the recognized rank because he knew the men would not follow Lewis, but they would Clark. The supplies were purchased and signed for by Clark and after the expedition was over the Government wouldn't pay the bills because they said Clark didn't have the rank to sign for them. If you ask the Government today (and I have), they say that all the debts were paid by them, but I think they didn't consider those signed by Clark to be their debts. After they returned, and the Government refused to pay the debts his friend signed for Lewis was yes, very depressed. The Clark family spent several generations paying off the debt. I can't tell you which Clark family member told me this story, but it should be more looked into.
Interesting…🤔
Just visited there this past September. Great video~
Thank you for watching. It was a super cool historic place to visit.
The notebooks that Lewis were carrying disappeared. It is good to talk about the death, but there is much more about this topic...such as in addition to the northwest passage discovery, Jefferson was also interested in the topic of the giants written about.
Great research and presentation.
Thank you.
Thanks!
Good video young lady . there is a huge rock on the Yellowstone river where W. M. CLARK carved his name into it. Today it's a park the initials are under a glass case the rock is sandstone and not very strong .plenty of cameras . You should do a video on that. It's about 20 miles east of billings on the river. THANK YOU FRANK FROM MONTANA PS.. good video....
Thank you! We’ll definitely have to add that to the list 😊
Pompey's Pillar. I'd love to see it one day.
@@donnabrowne5307 if you ever get the chance you should go see that it's the only proof that they really did that trip. It's History .. THANK you for your response. I'm sure you can find it on the computer. What state are you living in ?
I grew up on a 13-house dead-end street right on the Wood River-about a mile from where L&C made Camp DuBois, their starting point for the expedition. The whole area is rich in L&C history and lore.
How cool!
Thanks, I’ve been there and to many other L&C sites, including Fort Mandan, Lemhi Pass and Pompeys Pillar.
How cool!
Lewis was a man of high ideals.
While he was active, he could keep his demons at bay,
but when he stopped, they sometimes got the better of him.
He kept a fairly consistent record until on the way back,
one of his companions shot him in the butt.
He quit his record keeping after that.
If you review Jefferson's orders for that expedition, you will realize
it was mostly unattainable.
Lewis' reports upon his return were seriously lacking.
He was burdened with alleged venereal disease, alcohol, drugs, and guilt,
and an insurmountable anger with himself for his failures
on the Voyage of Discovery, and he shot himself.
He was definitely a man dealing with some demons.
Thanks again WWH. Great video. I would love to pick your brain. There's so much more I need to learn.
We’ll have to do a live stream sometime soon. Maybe when we hit 20k! 😁
@@WalkwithHistory You deserve 2M subs. I love your stuff.
@@jbrhel 😁
Undaunted Courage by Stephen Ambrose is an excellent book on the expedition and aftermath.
Yes it is!! I own it. ❤️🤘🙌
So very sad . A great explorer
Nice meeting you today! 🦷
Nice to meet you too!!
Loved Reading the Expedition Journals as a kid in the Sixties.
Yes Geek 🤓 even back then.....
🙌🏻
Great video! I have read Ambrose book, it's a great read and I agree with his opinion that Lewis committed suicide. His past history and family history show that he had this problem. Very sad to think that after all he did for our country that he couldn't live to enjoy it.
Didn’t Clark drink himself to death? Anyway, I don’t think it was a suicide. Why shoot yourself in the chest reload in immense pain and shoot yourself in the head? You didn’t say how many guns, if any, were found. Just my humble opinion
There were 2 - one bullet pistols. And the historians say it was the head shot that was first. That part of 2 shots, with the head shot first that made me go 🤔
William Clark was quite successful, post Lewis & Clark Expedition. He was the 4th governor of the Louisiana / Missouri Territory to 1820 [ Louisiana Territory was renamed Missouri Territory in 1812, to avoid confusion with the newest State of Louisiana]. Clark then became the 1st Superintendent of the Bureau of Indian Affairs 1822 to his death in 1838 at age 68.
Lewis was carrying two flintlock pistols. He had been carrying them for a week or more loaded, so it is likely the powder charges had drawn dampness and were too weak to inflict a fatal wound.
Lewis was not in a sane state of mind, according to those who traveled down the Mississippi River from St Louis with him. Lewis' original plan was to travel by river boat to New Orleans, then get a ship to Washington D.C. Without any rational explanation, Lewis suddenly departed at Natchez, MS to go overland to Washington DC. Choosing an arduous, long overland journey in place of a relatively easy river/ocean voyage, is NOT sane thinking. Lewis, sadly at that time in 1809, was just a shadow of the Lewis of just a few years earlier. Lewis committed suicide, plain and simple.
We talk about all of this on our podcast.
I grew up in Lewis County, there is more to the story than is allowed to be told. The innkeeper robbed and killed him. ❤
Show your evidence.@@aubreychadwickwhite8230
I read Undaunted Courage the ending was so sad. Because they were so successful.
All signs lead to murder over suicide. First, it is hardly plausible that one can inflicted two deadly shots in unison to the gravity of the particular situation. Eather wound would render someone incapable of further self-infliction. Second, the technology that renders one person to fire a second shot within a short time span wouldn't exist for another 55+ years. Upon discharging the first self-inflicted, fatal shot, Lewis had to regroup and mustard the strength to reload a flintlock revolver. 😎
That is what I thought too. Plus they say he shot himself in the head first, so he is doing all that with a bullet through his skull? Yeah, I don’t think so.
Thanks for sharing this bit of history. I remember reading about this in Ambrose's book and just accepted it to be a suicide. I've read through many of the comments below and your responses and I agree with you conclusion. Shooting yourself in the head first and then shooting yourself in the gut with flintlock pistols seems implausible. I guess it's one of those stories in history people will speculate about for all time.
Yup! Ever the mystery of history 😊
How could this have ever been considered a suicide? In 1809 all handguns/pistols were single shot flintlock style. To have been shot twice he would need to have two weapons. But more than that, how does a person shoot themselves once and still have the presence of mind to shoot another time? It just doesn't make sense.
A mystery of history 😊
Now that you've done Lewis, you should touch on David Thompson...
The background music was way too loud in this video. I could not understand most of what was being said.
Thank you for the feedback. We’re always trying to get better and this helps. 😊
Excellent. Thanks
Thank you!
I didn't know about this story. I thought I knew a lot about Lewis.
very interesting character!
What mysterie? He was a high functioning bipolar individual! That killed himself! He had a history of mode swings even before the expedition! Lewis was saved more than a few times by Clark! He was supposed to complete a book about the expedition experience but couldn't focus his thoughts! And some suggested the reason why he chose the cabin on the same trail they used! maybe hoping Clark would save him from himself! Being depressed during an expedition while trying to find the Northwest passage, while almost being killed by the Sioux, Grissley Bears or being lost in the wilds & starving only to be saved by Nez Perez! Kinda makes mode swings disappear while being surrounded by fellow explorers or indians! It's during the time of being alone and the squirming toad, that's called a Brain between the ears, is the dangerous time! After all he accomplished! There was probably a let down! Like after a women gives birth! The Baby Blues! I'm thinking after all the life ending situations they dealt with? Coming back to civilization was probably a bummer! Ask any Vietnam Vet. It's not the fire fights or deaths in country! It's coming back to the world, no longer attached to a unit or having a purpose. The Ghost comes flooding back! That destroys your soul! Especially if a bipolar person is in a manic state! Lewis & Clark were unique individuals that together made a good team! Lewis couldn't handle being an individual again! He was lost!
I don't understand why he made that voyage without at least two or three people with him traveling alone such a long distance by yourself is very very dangerous and reckless, remember these are frontier areas lightly populated and many natural dangers from weather to animals
true!
Very nice video. Unfortunately the volume of the background music made it almost imposiible for me to hear your narration.
Thank you for watching and thank you so much for the feedback! We’re always trying to adjust and tweak things like that and your feedback definitely helps. We’ll keep getting better! 😊
I see Naval Aviators Wings on your cap, did you fly in the Navy or Marine Corps?
Navy 😊 SH-60B
@@WalkwithHistory C-130s USMC 73 to 81. I just discovered your channel, it’s awesome. Simper Fi
@@BlueBoyMarine thank you!
I think the suicide story is highly implausable. While yes, a guy could survive a head shot to make a second shot, there are too many skepticle pieces to this. First, if that much of the head is destroyed, then the second shot could not be made. Second, a gut shot is NOT an immediate fatal shot and very painful. For one who is contemplating suicide to "end the pain and torment", shooting yourself in the gut is NOT the way to do that. And if you were to ever get shot by someone else in a skirmish, being gutshot is not how you want to be left.
I think you said the lady at the Inn heard 2 gun shots the night before. Would you not go out to explore and find out what happened? Its not like you could not hear that from a nearby house.
More than likely, he was attacked by robbers or possibly got drunk and came on to the Mrs of the house and her husband went out to "take care of him". Maybe told his wife not to pay any attention to noises or something like that.
Additional questions i have include why he went to Nashville to start with. This is a VERY unlikely route to get from St Louis to Washington DC. He could have taken the Ohio R up to Pittsburg and port over to the Potomic, or could have went down the Miss R to the Gulf and Atlantic. Nashville is WAY out of the way for either of those logical routes.
And Jefferson was a very intelligent man. He should have known better than to just accept the report of suicide by gutshot and to be in Nashville, so far out of the way. I smell some rotten fish in this whole scenario.
Absolutely. The whole thing sounds too strange for suicide unless there is more detail we don’t know.
Considering the arsenic, mercury, and lead they consumed, many eventually turned bonkers later in life.
That is definitely true!!!!
Isn't Clark buried in Lancaster county in Va?
William Clark, one half of the famous Lewis and Clark expedition, is buried in Bellefontaine Cemetery in St. Louis, Missouri. His grave is marked by a 35-foot granite obelisk on a pedestal, located in the northern part of the cemetery near the Broadway Avenue entrance and above Meadow Lane. The monument sits on a hill that overlooks the Mississippi River.
American history is no longer taught in most public schools. Very sad.
Interesting. That hasn’t been our experience with our kids. Now maybe the depth of American history could use some work, but its definitely being taught at least at some level. Thank you for watching! 😊
Excellent
Thank you so much 😀
Jane Randolph Jefferson is my 6th great grandmother. Thomas Jefferson being her oldest son and Randolph being the youngest. Randolph had a twin sister.
Jane also had a sister, who married a Lewis. They had twins together. Unfortunately, to prove southern stereotypes correct, these cousins married.
So, Merriweather was essentially Thomas Jeffersons extended family, related to him by marriage through his mother and his brother.
Thats how close they were. Also, around the time Merriweather was killed, Randolphs oldest son went on an adventure that took him into the future Alabama and up to the Natchez Trace and then over to the Red River valley.
No good reason for this trip but it does coincide with the timing of Merriweathers death and the dissappearance of parts.of.his journal.
Not sure I was aware of that. Thank
You for sharing! 😊
@WalkwithHistory it has been one of the things that is mentioned in family intrigue. The Burr scandal being another. I've personally always believed he may have been involved in something that caught up to him, the question to me always was, would it have implicated the sitting president....
Freemason's doing what freemason's do. He used two guns?, come on.
That’s what they say. 2 - one bullet pistols. And he made the head shot first??
Thank you very much for your presentation .
You’re welcome. 😊 and thank you for watching! 😁
I like your flight jacket! Fly Navy!
Thank you. I love it. 🥰
Good story. My blood has some roots in the Mississippi river valley this I know. So i ask who gave the land to politicians to sell? From what I understand it wasnt for sale
I believe the government believed they owned it after the Louisiana Purchase. They bought it from France. How it did France come to own all that land? It pre-dates America as a country.
French explorers traveled up the Miss River and down from the Great Lakes looking mostly for furs. But they made claims under authority of the King of France. After the French and Indian War, as part of the terms of the treaty, France gave up claims between the lakes and the Ohio River and between PA and the Miss River, giving it to Britain. But France kept its claims west of the Miss. River.
Later, when Jefferson became president, he purchased that western territory from France who had been wrecked financially after the American Revolution through their own revolution. They could not afford to maintain that land and also needed funds, so they sold the land to the US, which at least doubled the size of the US at that time.
Right or wrong about land claims, that is how it was done. And the Pope had made a decree around the 15th Century or so on which European countries could make claims to which part of the undeveloped world that they explored. So it all stemmed back to that.
How do you shoot your self twice with a flint lock? the revolver was not invented yet. Percussion cap was not invented till 1840.
That was my confusion as well. It still doesn’t quite make sense.
Two guns were used and found at the scene. It's possible to survive either of those wounds, at least long enough to inflict a second.
@@rickeys Ouch!!
Did they find the guns used in the suicide they’ve not mentioned
I believe they did and they're in a museum
actually...the more I look into it the more i'm not sure if they ever did find them. 🤔
Ok I have to stop at 5:34. A climatic point to deduce the multiple gunshot suicide. I understand that a person can be committed to kill themselves but by multiple gunshots? On an expedition that feels more akin to being sent to man an outpost at the South Pole for committing grave mistakes on duty. This Lewis fella was sent “walkabout” in uncharted territory amidst warring Indians, real grizzlies and mountain lions. (Not the kind that pose for selfies today in our parks). Spending fortunes along the way to come back with notebooks. Not gold but notebooks. The story well told isn’t so far out of grasping what really happened. “You spent what and brought back what?” They used flintlocks back then, it takes great skill to hold the pause long enough to take the shot and this guy did it more than once. Hmm. “I’ll take “wonkey” for $200 Alex”.
Yeah. That is why I lay out the facts as they are because even to me suicide by 2 separate pistols that didn’t carry out the job fully sounds far fetched. But it still holds as the most probable theory
Two guns were used. It's certainly possible to survive either of those wounds, at least long enough to shoot again.
@@rickeys take two 22 ounce east-wing framing hammers. The goal is to smash your toe twice. When you strike with the first hammer you will scream out for all of heaven to save you from that pain. No go right ahead and do this with the second hammer because you’re so committed to hitting that same mark twice. “Ain’t gonna happen”! Net even with this flintlocks of old style. I don’t care how depressed you think you are. Pain wins every time.
Most people wouldn’t shoot them selfs is the chest area. I this it was a murder.🥀
I thought the same thing.
I don't think many people shoot themselves twice
That was my inclination too.
Seems relevant to know how he previously attempted suicide: with a gun? Using some other means?
No historian really knows. “Sometime before he disembarked at Fort Pickering, at today’s Memphis, Tennessee, from the boat that was carrying him down river, Lewis had twice attempted to commit suicide. In an affidavit or deposition recorded two years after Lewis’s death, on 26 November 1811, Gilbert Russell, who had been in command of Fort Pickering when Lewis arrived, stated, “[T]he Commanding officer of the Fort on discovering his situation, and learning from the Crew that he had made two attempts to Kill himself, in one of which he had nearly succeeded, resolved at once to take possession of him and his papers, and detain them there untill he recovered, or some friend might arrive in whose hands he could depart in safety.”Neither Russell nor any other contemporary provided any more precise details of these incidents. No historian has ever ascertained just how Governor Lewis tried to commit suicide during his journey from St. Louis to Fort Pickering. More likely these suicide attempts occurred between New Madrid and Fort Pickering. Russell’s statement, “in one of which he had nearly succeeded,” is perplexing. It’s hard to believe this can refer to a suicide attempt involving pistols. No witness noticed any wounds on Lewis’s body before the final night at Grinder’s Inn. It is possible that, in a drunken or deranged state, Lewis brandished weapons-guns, his knife, his razor-and announced his intention to kill himself, but was physically subdued until he calmed down, passed out, or fell asleep. It is possible that he attempted to drown himself. For a man of his physical strength, however, that would be easier said than done. Thomas Danisi and John Jackson argue that these “suicide” attempts were responses to a severe bout of ague or malaria. “Unable to bear it any longer,” they write, “in a complex state of inescapable pain and intoxication, stepping over the side into the enveloping waters may have seemed the only way to end the torture.” This is a little melodramatic, but so indeed was Lewis. The phrase, “two attempts to Kill himself,” can cover a lot of ground, from the drunken ravings of a self-pitying man to a genuine attempt to take one’s own life. Improbable though all this sounds, there is no good reason to doubt Russell’s testimony. This is the sort of thing one might exaggerate, but not make up.”
What is the difference between the Lewis and Clark Expedition and the moon landing? Lewis and Clark really went to the Pacific ocean.
LOL. 😂
Lewis was bipolar! Not a great traveling partner fr such an expedition. Had to be a nightmare fr Clark!!
I can’t even imagine. Sacajawea must have rolled her eyes constantly.
I can’t even imagine. Sacajawea must have rolled her eyes constantly!!
@WalkwithHistory Crazy "white eyes" says Sac. to hrslf watching Lewis daily! How are these people conquering anyone!
Impossible to shoot yourself twice where he was shot, I don't care who you are
That is one of the questions I had. And they say he shot himself in the head first. So he shot off half his head then had the awareness to get his other pistol and shoot himself in the gut?? It just seems strange.
Check bullets
I think that Wilkinson had him killed
There is evidence to support that as well.
The evidence for Wilkinson assassinating Lewis consists of four parts: (1) the general’s reputation as an assassin; (2) proof that the suicide account of Lewis’s death is a lie; (3) A cover-up produced by Wilkinson, known as the “Russell Statement”; (4) his involvement with liberating Mexico after Lewis’s death.
Badly written
🤔? This is a video…do you mean badly edited?
I watched your video and I was glad that you did it to inform people of the details surrounding his death. I heard you mention he was Thomas Jefferson's personal Secretary. But I wanted to inform you that I am related to William Clark. He was my 4th Great Grandfather's 1st cousin. His Mother's Maiden Name was Ann Rogers and she married Capt. John Clark and became Ann Rogers Clark. His older brother was Brigadier General George Rogers Clark. The Founding Father of the Illinois Territory that became 5 States. However I and them were almost certainly related to Thomas Jefferson. As his Paternal Grandmother's Maiden Name was Jane Rogers. Her ancestry, I have only been able to trace back a couple of generations. But almost certainly she was related as we were related to virtually all of the Rogers in Virginia.
I read a really good book about the life of George Rodgers Clark entitled Long Knife, by James Alexander Thom. It was fascinating!