Back when I was in college I had to go through some really though criticism from teachers. Then I discovered that people see what they want to see, because other equally good teachers would tell me that I was doing a good job or at least had the right idea. The difference between a good critic and a bad critic is that the good critic hints you at how to fix things, whereas the bad critic tells you that you suck and should change career, which happens very frequently.
Eleven years later and Eisenmann's response is still narcissistic and embarrassing. To those tempted to think that Eisenmann is in fact making a good point, consider that his own philosophy regarding architecture fundamentally critiqued traditional architectural thinking and practices into oblivion, and that his own body of work is replete with examples of architecture that would likely make Borromini vomit. Deconstructionism, and by extension post-modernism, was instrumental in the indoctrination of whole generations of students into cult-like 'processes.' And then he has the audacity to complain that the student has no understanding of architecture? This is a devil blaming the child for consequences of his wickedness.
I completely agree but eisenmans project is to critique the projects of the past to create the new. Therefore his work is situated in formal, historical lineage. He’s not a devil but is merely questioning the stylized banality that architecture has become and asking the instructor why aren’t we learning the great historical works in school anymore. It still matters imo
@@eliaustin8520 but he isn't really criticising the work he is whole sail disregarding the student, and insulting the student further more by talking about the person with the third person while being in front of them. Quite pathetic and juvenile, if he has something worthwhile to say say it, I have heard enough rough criticism but at least they pointed out valid problems, instead of questioning whether I have any knowledge, and calling me a monkey. Man criticise the work all or leave , but instead he wastes everyone's time while only making a single point that people should study historical architecture styles more. He already should reach around and pull that stick out of his arse
Ummmm I think that's not the point. The point is that it's either you have the sauce or you don't. It doesn't matter style, theory, agenda. But when there's a flat spatial articulation you can see that someone didn't swim in their architecture. It's flat. No spice. No sauce. And I think that's what he's critiquing. Not whether it's conventional architecture or not.
@@jhoansaidrosasrios7906 Im not gonna feel like shit; Im gonna be HONOURED to receive such valuable advice and LISTEN and TAKE NOTES. As an Architect, I value and understand exactly what he is saying and he is RIGHT. kids these days have ZERO UNDERSTANDING OF PRINCIPLES
@@ISCDESIGNAustralia IMO it is a problem of HOW things are being communicated. I agree that there is a discipline of architecture and if you want to play the game you need to learn the rules and the techniques (especially if you want to break them), however, it is ridiculous to not engage in a conversation with the student. In the end, probably the student didn't learn anything from this review and Eisenman just showed to his old rich white peers how smart he is. Life is already too complicated. Nobody needs to be mistreated to become a good architect.
I agree with tornpaper that there are student who should just leave. (I'm in first year architecture), but I was still blown away at how rude, self-righteous, and narcissistic Eisenman was here. We can't judge the content and context of her project and the environment where she presented it, but this is not the way to respond to a student, even a bad one. He just comes off as an utter prick. Its a shame because I really like some of his work...
DEAR SWEET JESUS! Such a clasical meaning for the word "teacher" that one demonstrates - one that has no "inspiration" or tendency to "get the best out of the student" in it! Why would someone bother to carry this heavy duty, while it is so much fun to present himeself as a smarty pants and encourage suicidal thoughts into a young mind. Welldone dear "profesor"! Nicely played indeed!
This is clearly the older profession being troubled by a new language that the students are comfortable speaking that is born from the technology of the day. it's "nice" to know your history and beneficial to some degree but so much can be done and created without formally knowing it. Those guys are forgetting the innate aesthetic structural education that a contemporary society provides just by existing.
Never herd of Eisenmann , this shows how well known architects think they know it all !!!!! Esisenmann says nothing constructive about the work that is on display and no recognition to the female student.
.... time is changing !!! today architect will produce without knowing any thing that Peter call 'basic' .... just like Peter produce without knowing how things made in year before that 'basic'... that is architecture.. changes and progress
I've transcribed the first part of the clip on my blog, theappealofarchitecture. The video is very entertaining and it sums up the way that architecture is "taught". I've written the truth about how the schools operate in my controversial book, Architecture 'Education', kindle and paperback versions for sale on Amazon. Former architecture students/architects are coming to me in their droves with equivalent traumatic stories.
hahaha i would have liked to hear what foster had to say about buckminster fuller would he have been there. I only saw a bunch of postmodern clowns trying hard to look smart.
damn! give a student a chance, sure u can learn architecture. tell me if there's anything in this world that cant be learn. don't think so. eisenman really need to chill. nobody is perfect, every one has their strong point and weak point just like he's brilliant with spaces and absolute crap with facade
Back in the early ‘80s (when I actually had Eisenman as a critic once or twice), we had a term for a guy who engaged in this kind of posturing. ‘Still applies.: a**hole. I love how him and Wolf make analogies to music, but then agree that they do’t believe in teaching architecture. If I was the dean and a studio professor and a critic said that out loud, they’d be fired immediately.
@KAWAL140587 I'll assume you attend AA, so out of curiosity, what does it take to be accepted? Money, exellence, or both? The graduate course for instance, if being a foreigner, do they account your previous university score or just portfolio and interview? What are the courses like? And do you get the bigshots as crits often?
Other than its important utilitarian aspect, architecture is expression. it can only be "good" or "bad" if compared to a given standard. Othersise it's expression, like art. Who's to say what's good and what's bad? It's subjective. Only its utilitarian component , really, is objective. Expression? Like a movie. Opinion. I like Eisenman's mid-80 to early 90's architectural expression. But Prix said it... can you really teach it? Space planning, structures, building construction, sure.
I cannot believe my eyes seeing this video! Cannot believe it!!!! Those people are so rude to her! Feeling awful for her. And I am not using political correctness, I do not believe that he has to say to her that her work is good, but he compared her to a monkey! This is awful in some ways. Shame on Eisenmann.
Is the critique embarrassing for the student? It seems to be a piece of advice. And a very specific question to the prof. Funny to see the comments SIMILARLY laying up blame on Eisenman while defending the idea of UNIQUENESS of the student.
this kinda crap is why I left Architecture.. and I am in constructing, contracting and engineering. I think architects are not the best designers, and aren't sustainable from a cost point. Sound design principles are routed in How something is made. Architects are clueless.
The comments read like a bunch of butt-hurt D1 students. If you cared about the discipline or the pedagogy of teaching architecture, you would understand this important exchange. If you think any student's work is great work to be praised, you are missing the point. All Eisenmann said is that he can't critique her work, because the discipline has failed in teaching her anything.
Yes! But he could have done this in a way that acknowledged that the student is an actual human being that can think for herself. Instead, it seemed like the student was just a statue, an object that is unable to realise and analyse what is being said.
Peter is right I believe. The points he makes are valid and she should be listening. A student should know he history & story of architecture before producing anything. This is 10 years old and valid today for students. I just think Hes had a bad day that's all. But student-Us must respect and LISTEN to what he is saying with intent. Classical ordination, and fundamentals
We know nothing about the student. It's just an opportunity for Eisenman to stroke his own ego. I'm surprised he didn't mention Terragni yet again like he always does, just to remind us all about all the same old lineage of architecture which we now know was built on a very narrow-minded history. Anyway.
Back when I was in college I had to go through some really though criticism from teachers. Then I discovered that people see what they want to see, because other equally good teachers would tell me that I was doing a good job or at least had the right idea. The difference between a good critic and a bad critic is that the good critic hints you at how to fix things, whereas the bad critic tells you that you suck and should change career, which happens very frequently.
10 years on and this still rings true
Eleven years later and Eisenmann's response is still narcissistic and embarrassing. To those tempted to think that Eisenmann is in fact making a good point, consider that his own philosophy regarding architecture fundamentally critiqued traditional architectural thinking and practices into oblivion, and that his own body of work is replete with examples of architecture that would likely make Borromini vomit. Deconstructionism, and by extension post-modernism, was instrumental in the indoctrination of whole generations of students into cult-like 'processes.' And then he has the audacity to complain that the student has no understanding of architecture?
This is a devil blaming the child for consequences of his wickedness.
bluecubejdh k
you read 'making dystopia'?
I completely agree but eisenmans project is to critique the projects of the past to create the new. Therefore his work is situated in formal, historical lineage. He’s not a devil but is merely questioning the stylized banality that architecture has become and asking the instructor why aren’t we learning the great historical works in school anymore. It still matters imo
@@eliaustin8520 but he isn't really criticising the work he is whole sail disregarding the student, and insulting the student further more by talking about the person with the third person while being in front of them.
Quite pathetic and juvenile, if he has something worthwhile to say say it, I have heard enough rough criticism but at least they pointed out valid problems, instead of questioning whether I have any knowledge, and calling me a monkey.
Man criticise the work all or leave , but instead he wastes everyone's time while only making a single point that people should study historical architecture styles more.
He already should reach around and pull that stick out of his arse
Ummmm I think that's not the point. The point is that it's either you have the sauce or you don't. It doesn't matter style, theory, agenda. But when there's a flat spatial articulation you can see that someone didn't swim in their architecture. It's flat. No spice. No sauce. And I think that's what he's critiquing. Not whether it's conventional architecture or not.
I feel bad for that female student, she must had been traumatized.
Architectural Aesthetics nah
any student of Architecture goes through this. I did.
Ibrahim S Conlon hey same
@@jhoansaidrosasrios7906 Im not gonna feel like shit; Im gonna be HONOURED to receive such valuable advice and LISTEN and TAKE NOTES. As an Architect, I value and understand exactly what he is saying and he is RIGHT. kids these days have ZERO UNDERSTANDING OF PRINCIPLES
@@ISCDESIGNAustralia IMO it is a problem of HOW things are being communicated. I agree that there is a discipline of architecture and if you want to play the game you need to learn the rules and the techniques (especially if you want to break them), however, it is ridiculous to not engage in a conversation with the student. In the end, probably the student didn't learn anything from this review and Eisenman just showed to his old rich white peers how smart he is.
Life is already too complicated. Nobody needs to be mistreated to become a good architect.
kinda disappointed that wolf prix didn't defend for his student.
eisenman as a teacher is an absolute joke
There Eisenmann was any thing, any rotten doughy dark thing, except an educational nobleman or a critic of value.
2:44: ‘and this is the question to your answer’. Just about sums up this disrespectful debacle perfectly.
I agree with tornpaper that there are student who should just leave. (I'm in first year architecture), but I was still blown away at how rude, self-righteous, and narcissistic Eisenman was here. We can't judge the content and context of her project and the environment where she presented it, but this is not the way to respond to a student, even a bad one. He just comes off as an utter prick. Its a shame because I really like some of his work...
I never had Peter Eisenmannn, but I remember his studio. Memories....
Eisenmann cultivates his own arrogance publicly, and uses others as a way to promote his ego-based persona. I find him disgusting.
Mark Lakeman your more disgusting haha
DEAR SWEET JESUS! Such a clasical meaning for the word "teacher" that one demonstrates - one that has no "inspiration" or tendency to "get the best out of the student" in it! Why would someone bother to carry this heavy duty, while it is so much fun to present himeself as a smarty pants and encourage suicidal thoughts into a young mind. Welldone dear "profesor"! Nicely played indeed!
that was hardly a debate in my opinion, more like a monologue.
Yea, the student barely gets any room to reply
@@NotMeInc but he was not debating the student.
"How something hits the ground"
*puts plywood on the exterior as a facade material that goes below the grade*
Designs a house shabbily that drains the life savings of unsatisfied clients forced to remodel.
This is clearly the older profession being troubled by a new language that the students are comfortable speaking that is born from the technology of the day.
it's "nice" to know your history and beneficial to some degree but so much can be done and created without formally knowing it. Those guys are forgetting the innate aesthetic structural education that a contemporary society provides just by existing.
Never herd of Eisenmann , this shows how well known architects think they know it all !!!!! Esisenmann says nothing constructive about the work that is on display and no recognition to the female student.
.... time is changing !!! today architect will produce without knowing any thing that Peter call 'basic' .... just like Peter produce without knowing how things made in year before that 'basic'... that is architecture.. changes and progress
god bless architecture and its bullshit. :D
I've transcribed the first part of the clip on my blog, theappealofarchitecture. The video is very entertaining and it sums up the way that architecture is "taught". I've written the truth about how the schools operate in my controversial book, Architecture 'Education', kindle and paperback versions for sale on Amazon. Former architecture students/architects are coming to me in their droves with equivalent traumatic stories.
Where do I find your book?
The comments are bizarre, making it seem like he was berating the student. The video title sums it up correctly.
Looks like Greg Lynn in the background chuckling away quite rightly.
hahaha i would have liked to hear what foster had to say about buckminster fuller would he have been there. I only saw a bunch of postmodern clowns trying hard to look smart.
I believe it was in Vienna - University of applied arts Vienna (Wolf D Prix Studio)
"Thanks for the advice, Ellsworth Toohey"
damn! give a student a chance, sure u can learn architecture. tell me if there's anything in this world that cant be learn. don't think so. eisenman really need to chill. nobody is perfect, every one has their strong point and weak point just like he's brilliant with spaces and absolute crap with facade
...ok...that was awkward.
Applied art major holding court pretending to be complex for the zombies
Prix or Eisenmen?
"Screw you, Wolf. I'm not doing it!" That should be the slogan on a T-Shirt
Palladio and Borromini.
University of Applied Arts Vienna
what a load of crap
Back in the early ‘80s (when I actually had Eisenman as a critic once or twice), we had a term for a guy who engaged in this kind of posturing. ‘Still applies.: a**hole. I love how him and Wolf make analogies to music, but then agree that they do’t believe in teaching architecture. If I was the dean and a studio professor and a critic said that out loud, they’d be fired immediately.
Golden Rule: Never take a crit personnally. Develop a thick skin and learn from the instructor.
Actual Golden Rule: Grow a pair, which includes dismissing idiotic crits instead of bowing down to them.
What could have the student gotten from eisenman in this?
Well, what should you do if your score depends on it.
Bucky slays Eisenmann.
@KAWAL140587
I'll assume you attend AA, so out of curiosity, what does it take to be accepted? Money, exellence, or both? The graduate course for instance, if being a foreigner, do they account your previous university score or just portfolio and interview? What are the courses like? And do you get the bigshots as crits often?
Other than its important utilitarian aspect, architecture is expression. it can only be "good" or "bad" if compared to a given standard. Othersise it's expression, like art. Who's to say what's good and what's bad? It's subjective. Only its utilitarian component , really, is objective. Expression? Like a movie. Opinion. I like Eisenman's mid-80 to early 90's architectural expression. But Prix said it... can you really teach it? Space planning, structures, building construction, sure.
I cannot believe my eyes seeing this video! Cannot believe it!!!! Those people are so rude to her! Feeling awful for her. And I am not using political correctness, I do not believe that he has to say to her that her work is good, but he compared her to a monkey! This is awful in some ways. Shame on Eisenmann.
I think you're missing the point. Have you seen any of eisenman's designs? Not exactly traditional.
I Do Not to be in her shoes!
foster? where?
Hilarious
is that greg lynn back there?
Yep, and Bart Lootsma, Ross Lovegrove etc. The guy at the end making the comment about the camera is Jeff Kipnis.
@KAWAL140587
university of applied arts in vienna, actually
where was this?
Christopher Alexander > Eisenmann
Is the critique embarrassing for the student? It seems to be a piece of advice. And a very specific question to the prof. Funny to see the comments SIMILARLY laying up blame on Eisenman while defending the idea of UNIQUENESS of the student.
this kinda crap is why I left Architecture.. and I am in constructing, contracting and engineering.
I think architects are not the best designers, and aren't sustainable from a cost point. Sound design principles are routed in How something is made. Architects are clueless.
PhilippoChannel it sounds like you were just clueless at architecture.
@@joem2142 Or that he/she went to some shitty architecture school with incompetent teachers.
@bugaluu1 Architectural association....
Arrogance.
The comments read like a bunch of butt-hurt D1 students. If you cared about the discipline or the pedagogy of teaching architecture, you would understand this important exchange. If you think any student's work is great work to be praised, you are missing the point. All Eisenmann said is that he can't critique her work, because the discipline has failed in teaching her anything.
Yes! But he could have done this in a way that acknowledged that the student is an actual human being that can think for herself. Instead, it seemed like the student was just a statue, an object that is unable to realise and analyse what is being said.
Smug applied art major masquerading as deep thinker
lol
Peter is right I believe. The points he makes are valid and she should be listening. A student should know he history & story of architecture before producing anything. This is 10 years old and valid today for students. I just think Hes had a bad day that's all. But student-Us must respect and LISTEN to what he is saying with intent. Classical ordination, and fundamentals
Ibrahim S Conlon what
@@billyjosh9462 Peter is teaching us ARCHITECTURE
Ibrahim S Conlon with a big A
We know nothing about the student. It's just an opportunity for Eisenman to stroke his own ego. I'm surprised he didn't mention Terragni yet again like he always does, just to remind us all about all the same old lineage of architecture which we now know was built on a very narrow-minded history. Anyway.